Hey there!
First i love this game but i have one question about it because i could not found any informations on the FAQ or web.
Will you change(/increase the quality of) the graphics and add stuff like visible hands and legs on later/final release?
What speaks against high quality graphics?
The rimworlders have no hands or legs. They evolved into that state after long evolution in space ;D
Therefore their hands and legs are already animated :)
Actually though, it's just the artstyle.
Quote from: humblebundle on February 13, 2016, 05:46:42 PMWhat speaks against high quality graphics?
Creating the assets for hands/legs and especially animating them (hands probably individually for every possible action there is in the game) is an enormous amount of work for the artists and a lot of fiddling around programming wise. The way it currently is you can get away with it
without having 3 trillion animations. And as long as the general artstyle is persistent, there is no issue with that (at least for most people, I guess).
Quote from: Lys on February 13, 2016, 06:48:10 PM
Quote from: humblebundle on February 13, 2016, 05:46:42 PMWhat speaks against high quality graphics?
Creating the assets for hands/legs and especially animating them (hands probably individually for every possible action there is in the game) is an enormous amount of work for the artists and a lot of fiddling around programming wise. The way it currently is you can get away with it without having 3 trillion animations. And as long as the general artstyle is persistent, there is no issue with that (at least for most people, I guess).
Sorry but thats totaly bs... take a look at prison architect, they do have hands, it's not that hard...they can up and down, nothing more, you don't need fingers.
Prison architect may be a small company (introvesion) but their development team is larger then rimworlds.
Also I personaly love both games artstyles, with or without hands if anything if it makes developement easier I prefer without its just one of rimworlds Quirks.
Also the comedic value of wondering how colonist carry things.
Quote from: humblebundle on February 14, 2016, 10:49:09 AM
Quote from: Lys on February 13, 2016, 06:48:10 PM
Quote from: humblebundle on February 13, 2016, 05:46:42 PMWhat speaks against high quality graphics?
Creating the assets for hands/legs and especially animating them (hands probably individually for every possible action there is in the game) is an enormous amount of work for the artists and a lot of fiddling around programming wise. The way it currently is you can get away with it without having 3 trillion animations. And as long as the general artstyle is persistent, there is no issue with that (at least for most people, I guess).
Sorry but thats totaly bs... take a look at prison architect, they do have hands, it's not that hard...they can up and down, nothing more, you don't need fingers.
So, you quote prison architect as "high quality graphics", as compared to rimworld? Well... then we have a totally different understanding of what "high quality" means.
Edit: Also, as I mentioned, there are tons of different actions that would require hand animations in rimworld. In prison architect the actions the people do are rather... limited.
I think it would be nice if there was at least shoulders, like actual shoulders not just body shape.
Then you would be able to see tank tops or shirts distinctively.
Yeah... That would be cool.
Go play Dwarf fortress, ignore all screenshots you find on the interwebs, the actual game has triple A graphics!
:D
After that come back here begging us for mercy.
Srsly tho, I like it with no hands...
Gentz, by Triple A graphics, do you mean that when we see them, we'll go "AAA!" because that would be apt, IMHO.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on February 14, 2016, 07:51:37 PM
Gentz, by Triple A graphics, do you mean that when we see them, we'll go "AAA!" because that would be apt, IMHO.
Lol. But sadly not, by tiple A graphics I mean graphics like the ones in the Crysis Engine Demo Levels.
IMO, Aesthetics > Graphics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oK8UTRgvJU
And the game already looks pretty good right now. Doubt arms and legs would be added cause that's done purposely to remove some unnecessary work while creating a fitting art style.
Though other than that, I can see some parts that could be improved like shadows having the pawn's shape instead of just a rectangle that increases in length. Though I have no experience nor idea how code works and dunno if that's possible.
If I recall, shadows are made by scaling/rotating 3 different dark rectangles. You MIGHT be able to replace that with an outline of a pawn. The exact details I dont recall saddly.
TBH this game's graphics are miles ahead of DF. (I think of this game as a simpler DF BTW) I personly think the time's better spent on more UI (adding things like EDB interface and Fluffy's UI related mods (research menu, manger and power, ect)).
But that's just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. At the end of the day Ty does what he see's fit.
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 15, 2016, 03:24:01 AM
At the end of the day Ty does what he see's fit.
Because, getting more than you can handle can lead to all sorts of butthurt. In all kinds of senses.
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 14, 2016, 06:12:09 PM
Go play Dwarf fortress, ignore all screenshots you find on the interwebs, the actual game has triple A graphics!
:D
Ok if you start trolling kids, even DF has better Graphics:
http://www.wired.com/2014/07/dwarf-fortress-3d/
no, seriously, look at for example Project Zomboid:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/108600/
It is made by two guys, who get their Source code stolen, but they do work since years on that game and it looks very nice for a two man project.
Rimworld has a very nice gameplay elements, but the graphics are kinda snes, yes there outside people who like the style, but whats the problem with like hands, or feet so you can actually see them changing? I don't talk about graphics YET, i talk about if they will be better on release or at least will there be hands, or will this game never evolve with graphics? :P
Oh and the graphics are at all very weird, the wood texture is very nice and good, but the others looks like made with windows paint and 16 colors, thats weird.
Maybe a fan made mod with hands? :P
Humans would be nothing without hands!
Circle hands? Maybe. Feet? Nope, that would just look extremely silly and Rayman.
The majority of us don't really have any problem with the art style and thinks it suits the game and wonky graphics are far and few in between. The best that I can suggest for improvement is cleaning up certain textures and adding more flashy effects. I seriously doubt an art overhaul is ever going to happen. Why fix something that's not broken?
Project Zomboid's graphical quality is debatable but I got to say, I really like the DF one. Is that vanilla? Haven't played it in years.
Nope, read the article. It's a massive mod that is the result of years of work.
That's a separate program that runs alongside DF. There's a lot of little programs like that. This is what DF looks like with a graphical mod. Those are zombies charging down my entrance passageway.
[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Quote from: StorymasterQ on February 14, 2016, 07:51:37 PM
Gentz, by Triple A graphics, do you mean that when we see them, we'll go "AAA!" because that would be apt, IMHO.
Nope, that's AAA as in 3 dead alligators all in a row! Or maybe an anaconda, an alligator, and an aardvark all got their final comeuppance with one mighty swing of some legendary silver hammer named "NakedGristle" that menaced with spikes of turkey leather.
On the serious side, from all the "Let's Plays" I've watched so far, I love the graphics just how they are. Can't wait to scoop this up on Steam as soon as possible.
Quote from: muffins on February 24, 2016, 01:33:50 PM
That's a separate program that runs alongside DF. There's a lot of little programs like that. This is what DF looks like with a graphical mod. Those are zombies charging down my entrance passageway.
I men't Vinnila DF. I just couldn't stand memorizing letters so I got the starter pack with thier tileset thingys.
I don't say, i don't like Rimworld graphics at all, it could be worse and hands are not thaaaat important.
If you take a look at the images/textures of the game, the quality is very diffrent, from very good quality (wood texture) to very low (most animals, players and on).
I would like to get some official answer about this, will the team work on the graphics (player and on) or not?
There's actually 1 Artist I'm pretty sure, there's no team for it, so I doubt the player graphics will be worked on anymore.
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
There's actually 1 Artist I'm pretty sure, there's no team for it, so I doubt the player graphics will be worked on anymore.
I think thier's 2, one for the small stuff (pawns, buildings, ect) and another for the big stuff (storyteller port rates, main menu thingy, ect)
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 24, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
There's actually 1 Artist I'm pretty sure, there's no team for it, so I doubt the player graphics will be worked on anymore.
I think thier's 2, one for the small stuff (pawns, buildings, ect) and another for the big stuff (storyteller port rates, main menu thingy, ect)
Rite rite.
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 09:44:23 PM
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 24, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
There's actually 1 Artist I'm pretty sure, there's no team for it, so I doubt the player graphics will be worked on anymore.
I think thier's 2, one for the small stuff (pawns, buildings, ect) and another for the big stuff (storyteller port rates, main menu thingy, ect)
Rite rite.
Not sure if that's sarcasm, or if you seriously agree with me.
Oh well. ::)
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 24, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
There's actually 1 Artist I'm pretty sure, there's no team for it, so I doubt the player graphics will be worked on anymore.
I think thier's 2, one for the small stuff (pawns, buildings, ect) and another for the big stuff (storyteller port rates, main menu thingy, ect)
Correcto! https://ludeon.com/blog/studio/
I recall Tynan once mentioning that he wants to leave some things up to our imagination, just like reading a book, you get rudimentary info about a person, in Rimworlds case skin color, haircut, body build, various ailments etc... and I think the same applies to actions, e.g. your grower harvests some corn, what you see is him standing there, the plant vanishes and to his side appears a stack of corn, but in your head you may see how he plucks each corn cob and puts it in a basket.
Some people might argue this is just lazy programming/animation, but I kinda like that imagination idea, and I think it would look very goofy when pawns suddenly get arms and legs.
Quote from: Panzer on February 25, 2016, 06:53:11 AM
I recall Tynan once mentioning that he wants to leave some things up to our imagination, just like reading a book, you get rudimentary info about a person, in Rimworlds case skin color, haircut, body build, various ailments etc... and I think the same applies to actions, e.g. your grower harvests some corn, what you see is him standing there, the plant vanishes and to his side appears a stack of corn, but in your head you may see how he plucks each corn cob and puts it in a basket.
Some people might argue this is just lazy programming/animation, but I kinda like that imagination idea, and I think it would look very goofy when pawns suddenly get arms and legs.
I came here pretty much to say exactly that. It's supposed to be a story telling game, I'd rather imagine something awesome to fill in the blanks, than have everything filled in for me. I think the current graphics, limited as they are, do quite well in that regard. They give enough expression to tell a story, but not so much as to stifle the imagination.
That said, I do agree with a couple of posters up, the assets that are there are sometimes of mixed styles/resolutions/quality, which can be immersion breaking. Particularly a switch in perspective that happens for some items is bugging me.
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 24, 2016, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 09:44:23 PM
Quote from: TheGentlmen (GENTZ /'jen(t)z/) on February 24, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on February 24, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
There's actually 1 Artist I'm pretty sure, there's no team for it, so I doubt the player graphics will be worked on anymore.
I think thier's 2, one for the small stuff (pawns, buildings, ect) and another for the big stuff (storyteller port rates, main menu thingy, ect)
Rite rite.
Not sure if that's sarcasm, or if you seriously agree with me.
Oh well. ::)
Actually agreeing, as I didn't know. I was pretty sure a different artist did the storyteller art then in-game, but that was all I knew.
While I don't mind it staying the way it is right now, It surely would add a lot of depth if it was possible to see how many limbs the colonists have left. Plus imagine the new sprites people could create for bionics etc.
I'm still trying to find out why hands=better graphic quality
On a side note, I think there was a texture pack thing somewhere that you can try to find.
Guess more detail = higher graphical quality if I understand his POV correctly.
I believe better graphics/animation here would be one to completely replace text descriptions for characters' actions and mood without leaving you guessing what is happening to them at given moment (like their dreaming pose being distinguished from sleepeng). Pets being starve ar prego also have no signs of it unless you read their stats in text window. Also it is pretty hard to tell what clothes they are wearing and current state of those (means durability). Trees growing stages is enother instance.
Quote from: Lys on February 13, 2016, 06:48:10 PM
Quote from: humblebundle on February 13, 2016, 05:46:42 PMWhat speaks against high quality graphics?
Creating the assets for hands/legs and especially animating them (hands probably individually for every possible action there is in the game) is an enormous amount of work for the artists and a lot of fiddling around programming wise. The way it currently is you can get away with it without having 3 trillion animations. And as long as the general artstyle is persistent, there is no issue with that (at least for most people, I guess).
Dont see why you would need so many detailed animations.. Incase of this artstlye it would be enough to create an walking, sleeping and "working" animations for the hands. Think its more importend to get a bit more movement into the game.. so the pawns look less like lifeless worms. :P
Hrm.. maybe add some basic eye animations to.. just a bit of moving up and down.
Quote from: Panzer on February 25, 2016, 06:53:11 AM
I recall Tynan once mentioning that he wants to leave some things up to our imagination, just like reading a book, you get rudimentary info about a person, in Rimworlds case skin color, haircut, body build, various ailments etc... and I think the same applies to actions, e.g. your grower harvests some corn, what you see is him standing there, the plant vanishes and to his side appears a stack of corn, but in your head you may see how he plucks each corn cob and puts it in a basket.
Some people might argue this is just lazy programming/animation, but I kinda like that imagination idea, and I think it would look very goofy when pawns suddenly get arms and legs.
This is the point I really wanted to bring up.
Anything we add would be worse than your imagination. In fact, I'd rather the game has less graphics. I'd prefer it was more symbolic. Even the graphics that are there really get in the way of players richly imagining story interactions. I only added them to make the game comprehensible and marketable, but I hate the way they suppress imagination (by filling in the visuals for you before your mind can invent them). For example, a lot of RW fan art depicts colonists as they are in game - chesspiece-like characters floating around. That bothers me. The chesspiece look isn't what they "really are" - it's just a symbol to represent what's actually happening. If they were represented in ASCII, people would imagine so much more.
The other reason the graphics aren't more detailed is just because of the competition from other ideas. Every feature we could potentially add competes on a cost/benefit basis with the others to try to be the next one worked on. Graphics like this are high-risk, high-cost and low-payoff. They don't come close to competing with systems like social interactions, children, drugs, new storytelling systems, etc etc.
As a tiny indie I try to play to my strengths, which are nimbleness, creativity, nicheness, uniqueness, abstraction, design tightness, rapid iteration, and other such qualities. I'll never beat AAA games in the graphical detail arena, but I can consistently beat them in areas where I have the advantage, so I focus on those.
I love Rimworld and its art style... but please Tynan, no ASCII... ASCII gives me nightmares.
Ya, no ASCII. Unicode instead! Gives more characters... ;)
Quote from: Tynan on February 27, 2016, 12:56:23 PM
They don't come close to competing with systems like social interactions, children, drugs, new storytelling systems, etc etc.
Is this coming? :D
I don't really care about the graphics. They only use a pawn place holder as the person, they also use various clothing graphics to show kind'a what the person is wearing. I play not for the graphics, but for the game itself and the whole story line that is created by me. I saw a animated story about a game called Under the Rim and the story is based on Blitzkriegsler's RimWorld Alpha 11 - Let's Play Series. Now this story has a lot more than the events and the people still look like pawns (although the have hands sometimes animated for them) it is more about the backstory and the small things done by the people. I think it is really cool and it is a good show that people can show imagination even without good graphics.