Ludeon Forums

Hello everybody, first of all, I am only doing this pool because I found some major opnion differences in the forum. I'll show two without saying the author.

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I have to say that for me alpha 13 so far has been my worst rimworld experience since i started playing during Alpha 6.
There's just so much unnecessary complexity now that doesn't contribute at all to the gameplay.
Instead of a colony simulator it's just a disaster simulator and micromanagement hell.

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The new tech tree with the new low-tech appliances (like the fueled generator and manual tailoring station) make the early game much more interesting (and the fueled generator keeps being useful as a backup power source in bunkers even later into the game).

The social mechanic makes me see the colonists more as characters and less as pawns in my game. That one time when a noble and a couple were my starting trio, the noble seduced the woman, and her ex-lover beat her to death for cheating... These kinds of stories hook me like nothing before. I literally can't wait to get back home and play again.

Great job Tynan and ison!

So I would like to know the thoughts of the community, because I for one, LOVE the new mechanics, the components, the golf and plasteel to go further in the research and the social fights that can spiral in the worst way possible, I just love it all. That's why i'm scared about all this negative feedback.

I made the options the best way I could, hope they define what you think of the game.

This topic is not meant for you to discuss about another persons opnion.

If you wish, post your vote on the poll alongside with why you voted. But again, refrain from discussing about what that guy said. This topic is meant to gather data.

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Sorry to reduce the votes to 0, I've redone the options and I hope that this way it will be clear.

"I love the mechanics of Components, but they are rarely available, the cost/time/research to produce it is too high. The amount used in crafting ok."

While I do like components for putting a slight cap on spamming turrets or mass-producing weapons and armour from bare steel, I feel like I have to prepare for component fabrication right from the start, depending on the map and storyteller at work. At first it even seems that components aren't much of an issue, but as soon as the map is mined dry, they can become really scarce. Traders carry only a few, if any at all, I've only ever seen starship chunks falling down once or twice, and even a full mechanite raid is just enough to keep things running for a week. Even when you finally get all the research done, and the component workbench set up, the problem is far from solved because they're still so expensive and take so long to craft.

I tend to end up at a point where I spend all my time smelting down slag and weapons and turning them into components just to sustain the status quo. Especially when playing on maps that need a lot of temperature management or lots of power to sustain indoor farming, breakdowns and the need for firefoam poppers will eventually eat up all my steel and components.
I guess it's supposed to work as some sort of hard cap, but it really just feels like a grind at times.


Of course I don't expect to be able to churn out power armors by the dozen, but given that you need components even for tiny things like IEDs or autodoors, I ended up not using a lot of those things AT ALL because they are just too expensive in up-front and maintenance cost.

Components are... A very nice addition,  but certainly a bit unbalanced. The price of them definitely needs to be raised,  OR,  the steel used to produce needs to be drastically lowered. Maybe both,  really,  i think after all the effort,  we should be able to turn a profit selling them,  but I'm not sure that is even possible currently.  Keep in mind,  production of components is essentially an industrial revolution for the colony,  so making components should have a much bigger reward than just "ok ,  you need more components? Now you can use steel for it.".  Ideally i want to become a component factory,  and have my economy taking off because of it... Especially because getting to that point stretches you dangerously thin to begin with,  to the point you really cannot do anything till you get production going.

Actually,  price of materials vs product is a bit of a problem,  5 hops fetches more than 1 beer,  which seems whacky.

But yes,  components are extremely nice,  but the steel involved to produce them is out of whack.  I would prefer needing a high crafting skill,  like  lavish meals,  and making it slow to make. Labor is a commodity as well after all. Perhaps even a failure rate which turns steel into a slag chunk, which then gets in the way and needs to be smelted down again.

Also,  make traders (space traders especially)  carry more,  while charging much more. Components are hard to come by and space traders know it,  suppply and demand.  Would justify balance wise having more for sale too,  if component price was increased.

please stop asking for the "discussionless polls" when you don't put approrpiate choices.

I like components, think their availability and research time is great, think their crafting uses are great, but think breakdowns happen WAY WAY too often.  I bet others agree, but that option doesn't exist, thus discussion is necessary.

Quote from: Limdood on April 17, 2016, 09:14:48 AM
please stop asking for the "discussionless polls" when you don't put approrpiate choices.

I like components, think their availability and research time is great, think their crafting uses are great, but think breakdowns happen WAY WAY too often.  I bet others agree, but that option doesn't exist, thus discussion is necessary.

Meh, I kinda lump breakdowns in with crafting, since the crafting bit is primarily about component use.

I dislike the mechanics of components, it's an unnecessary addition to the game that adds yet another layer of micro-maintenence.

I'm somewhat 'meh' about them and you don't have an option for that. On one hand they limit your growth speed and add a slight veneer of realism. On the other they take 30 steel to craft, making purchasing them for 15 silver the best option as far as economics go. Honestly, their craft cost needs to be reduced to match with the sale price then I am just fine with them.

It's a complicated issue and for me it boils down to what happens from the player's POV.

If it was up to me, I'd have less components showing up in caravans / space traders OR make them more expensive, but make the component bench easier to unlock (and/or cost less components in itself) and the crafting process maybe require more steel per component (bigger drain).

The problem with the way it's set up now is it can feel like a hard bottleneck if you didn't "plan" for it, which can feel a little too punitive to newer players who find themselves with a component shortage and suddenly require a big bunch of them to make the workbench (after the relatively heavy research requirements). I'd want to balance it so it "flows" better (accessible earlier - easier to get to that point), but remains a costly resource (more than it is currently) to obtain and produce on your own.

So not so much of a bottleneck anymore, but still something valuable that'll cost you to keep producing - both in crafting time and resources - especially if you waste a ton on turrets.

There ya go.

Breakdowns are decently balanced, in that they sort of prevent you from building up a lot of stuff when you get an early glut of components, because you have to have maintenance levels being produced at all times. It prevents you from ramping up your colony too fast, which adds to the challenge since you can't just spam turrets anymore.

From the perspective of someone who previously thought the game lacked challenge outside of Randy/extreme, the last couple updates have really improved things. It feels more balanced as a whole, in that you can play a Cassandra/rough game where difficulty ramps accordingly, there aren't too many Randy-esque "you're just screwed now" moments, and there's a decent challenge in actually managing and planning your colony. I didn't like how it was before, where if you wanted a challenge you basically had to go into Randy/extreme, and if you did that and permadeath (house rules) you basically were playing a crap shoot. Now however, on a more balanced setting, there's a definite feeling of "struggle", of "two steps forward one step back" progress, but where you do eventually succeed.

While I would personally like to see a lot more focus on pre-industrial teching early on, and building up to components and related techs in the mid-game, I'm fine with how it's currently implemented.

I have to point out, that the poll can be missinterpreted fairly easy. On the first look it seems, that most of the people love the components the way they are. But for real you need to compare the first option (great the way it is in the game) vs option 2-6 (components are good, but need balancing) vs the last option (dislike components).

Components are fine as they are. Ive never had a problem with them running out. If you are running out, you are simply teching up too quickly and being over ambitious. As long as you have a food source you can live for a pretty good amount of time without anything else.

What is the point even having the mechanic in the first place if you want it nerfed to the point it's not an issue?

The only problem i have with the components is the cost of the steel used to craft it. Otherwise its alright.

Quote from: Limdood on April 17, 2016, 09:14:48 AM
please stop asking for the "discussionless polls" when you don't put approrpiate choices.

I'll try to improve the choices, without they losing it's meanings.

Quote from: omittimo on April 17, 2016, 10:58:11 AM
I have to point out, that the poll can be missinterpreted fairly easy. On the first look it seems, that most of the people love the components the way they are. But for real you need to compare the first option (great the way it is in the game) vs option 2-6 (components are good, but need balancing) vs the last option (dislike components).

I'll try to make an adjustment, without the options losing it's meaning.

Quote from: omittimo on April 17, 2016, 10:58:11 AM
I have to point out, that the poll can be missinterpreted fairly easy. On the first look it seems, that most of the people love the components the way they are. But for real you need to compare the first option (great the way it is in the game) vs option 2-6 (components are good, but need balancing) vs the last option (dislike components).

yes, poll is poorly worded/organized.  Needs to say:

-Components are fine exactly as-is
-components need some slight tweaking to refine balance
-components need significant balancing from what they currently are
-components are a detriment to the game in concept, balancing won't help.

AND it needs to say to "explain below" - these "no comment" polls are absolutely less informative, accurate, and useful than a well discussed explanation of votes.

Quote from: Flying Rockbass on April 17, 2016, 02:01:32 PM
I'll try to make an adjustment, without the options losing it's meaning.

you'll have to clear the poll in that case...redefining votes after people have will give completely incorrect feedback.

My main beef with components is how often things break. I mine absolutely every component deposit I see early, simply so I have a large stock of components to cover breakdowns and construction. But if you like autodoors as much as I do, you get a breakdown every day or so and it's very expensive.

Quote from: sadpickle on April 17, 2016, 02:47:19 PM
My main beef with components is how often things break. I mine absolutely every component deposit I see early, simply so I have a large stock of components to cover breakdowns and construction. But if you like autodoors as much as I do, you get a breakdown every day or so and it's very expensive.

But you agree that you create the problem and it's not a balance issue?

Quote from: jaeden25 on April 17, 2016, 02:54:16 PM

Quote from: sadpickle on April 17, 2016, 02:47:19 PM
My main beef with components is how often things break. I mine absolutely every component deposit I see early, simply so I have a large stock of components to cover breakdowns and construction. But if you like autodoors as much as I do, you get a breakdown every day or so and it's very expensive.

But you agree that you create the problem and it's not a balance issue?

I may "create" the problem by building a lot of auto-doors early on... but this is scratching the surface. Even if you're going turret-less, you need ever-more solar panels, turbines, production buildings, lamps, etc. and the component cost can be enormous. I'd like to see breakdown events be less common, not go away altogether.

I have redifined the votes, trying to make it better and allow more choices.

It's hard to make a poll out of something like this, you either make it too vague or too specific and lose details. English is not my main language as well...

Sorry, the votes have been returned to 0

Thing is, components are just another obstacle to progress. I understand the idea of bottlenecks to slow progression at certain points and essentially define a clear set of 'tiers' to base future progress around. That in and of itself isn't bad.

The initial implementation of something like this isn't expected to be spot on, I doubt anyone is claiming that it should be. However, RNG heavy dependence is never a good thing. Anecdotes about how some people didn't have it so bad changes nothing about it, those aren't even arguments.

As it stands, it is possible to roll a dead colony. A colony with few resources on the map that will go for years before acquiring any gold and barely any contact with traders. This means that anything requiring components (weapon crafting, hydroponics, comms relay, literally all sources of power) becomes extremely limited - and you'll have no chance against the threats you face almost 3 years in.

The current implementation of components and gold have removed player agency, because these resources are completely RNG dependent. Completely. There is literally nothing that a player can do to overcome the lack of gold and components if they don't spawn on the map and they don't luck out with traders. That needs to change.

Technically, my complaint isn't with components so much as with trading being seriously nerfed.  Imagine if we got trade ships the way we did in a12.  It'd be a short wait until a trader with gold or plasteel showed up.  Sell beer/hops, buy critical resources, off you go.  *AND* a trade ship carrying components would show up with 100 instead of 3.  Yeah, maybe they should cost 50 silver apiece, but you would happily surrender 2000 silver to get 40. 

Nerfed trading -> desperate need for self sufficiency -> manic rage when self sufficiency is impeded by unavailability of components -> drinking lots and lots of beer.

I made my first Rimworld mod today and it was one to reduce the amount of steel needed to make them (see sig) I think that says enough.

I feel for the time and materials investment needed, the component fabrication is far too expensive. Such a major investment should lift barriers, on steel-sparse maps it does not do this at all.

The breakdowns are quite frequent and essentially a recurring steel tax. My first game in A13 was an extreme desert plains map, steel is in short supply as it is. Perhaps building costs should be reduced to compensate.

The components also add a lot of extra mining and hauling at the start, which slows things down some. In the early game, you have to be more careful with money and buy as many as you can. That's a design choice I can live with.

i played gnomoria and DF first before i played rimworld. so the notion of components actually feel "casual" for me.

in gnomoria. pawns actually need to craft the necessary parts needed for a structure before they can build it.

ie : you want a bed? you need to craft the frame first, then you also need to craft the mattress. BEFORE you can assemble the bed and then install it to the location you want. all of this requiring people with specialized skill sets and specialized workbenches.

one of the many reason why dwarf fortress and gnomoria are entertaining for their complexity.

the whole production pipeline can be a very entertaining metagame that could completely engross the players, especially people who likes similar games like factorio. coz logistics can be fun.

however, this could also be quite a drawback for casual gamers.. just by looking at the few people complaining about the addition of components and gold requirements.

hmm.. i think the addition of components is an ok compromise. it adds a bit more complexity which translates to "more gameplay stuff to do and to master" and the learning curve is not too steep for casuals.

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personally i'd prefer a game with DF/gnomoria level of complexity (z-levels, water, production pipeline, etc) + pixel art like dungeon of the endless + rimworld RTS battle mechanics + don't starve surrealism.

but i digress..

(i'm just faffing around in the forum waiting for EDB's a13 release for prep carefully.. haha)

1 option for
6 against..

Poll leans to being a problem. And still the vote is for.

Seems to me a vocal minority don't like them. Maybe people who spam turrets?

Breakdown maybe be tweaked.. overwise.. great addition.

Quote from: keylocke on April 17, 2016, 06:10:06 PM
i played gnomoria and DF first before i played rimworld. so the notion of components actually feel "casual" for me.

I also played gnomoria previously and enjoyed it quite a bit.  There's a critical difference here; in gnomoria, you can make whatever you need.  Need gold?  Go dig down until you find it.  Need wooden sticks?  Go chop down some trees.  The only actual difficult bit is getting your first bone needle, and that just involves deciding when to kill your first yak.

It's the exhaustion of resources that has people irked more than the difficulty of managing a more complex resource train.

I quite enjoy the components, but since they are so important in construction, it would be good if there was a primitive crafting table for them as well, so you're not entirely boned if you don't have enough to last you until the appropriate tech level (which seems to be a problem for a lot of new players).

I am fine with whatever atm as i can mod it or change it if i feel a chance is necessary ( for example i changed to frequency of rain so i can burn corpses more easily )

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(i'm just faffing around in the forum waiting for EDB's a13 release for prep carefully.. haha)

prep carefully is out,

<-- im using prep carefully to give myself 40 gold 50 uranium to avoid the rng, and some more components so I can focus on the raids / break downs/ infections / design base/ mood... etc.... coz im bad at surviveing.

theres is too much that can go wrong on RNG rather than on player mistakes / choices.

My only issue with components is the time required to craft each one and that it appears to reset if interrupted. It takes such a long time that it starts screwing with schedules and I get people passing out from exhaustion while attempting to make one right before they are supposed to go to sleep.

I'm fine with everything else about them.

I'm in mid game, and component costs of some items don't appear well balanced.

1 component for IED trap ? You rarely get a good result from just one IED, unless you use one trap + several scattered shells, which is exploit-ish.

4 components for an incendiary launcher, heavy SMG, LMG, but 3 for Assault Rifle ? The number of components needed to craft a weapon is often not proportional to the  desirability of the weapon.