I don't want to start any feud in there, or call in plagiarism of any sort, but Rimworld (previously called Starship Architect) reminds of Prison Architect, currently in a very popular alpha development by Introversion Software studio. Is that because the tools used to create both games are the same, or is there any closer or more personal relation to Prison Architect?
I personaly thinks that both games can go along very well, I was just curious about the possible sources of inspiration of Rimworld.
I drew some inspiration from PA. Moreso from its own inspiration, Dwarf Fortress.
We don't share any tools. Chris at IV has his own tech foundation; I built this one on Unity.
But they do look somewhat similar; that's my fault. I'm not a good enough artist to come up with a really good original look. There are only so many ways to render characters on a tiny grid without using animations.
I hope the differences between the game will be enough for people to look past the aesthetic similarities. And if I get some funding at some point I can get an artist to help develop a more unique look.
I do think the similarities are skin-deep. In gameplay the game resembles DF much more than PA.
How did you know I used to call it Starship Architect? That was back in March... I didn't think I ever mentioned that anywhere. CREEPY :D
Thank you for the answer, as I said in my email yesterday, I've been following your blog for a little while now, and you mentioned its former name in a blog post dated from September 5th (http://ludeon.com/blog/2013/09/ludeon-studios-inc/).
Like I said, I really think that both games can go along together, and if you had opted for an isometric look with voxels, I would have ask about the resemblance with Towns, another game in that vein.
Watching the trailer, I was sure that I recognized some sounds from Prison Architect. The art style is the main point visible and I am not sure if people might get mad at it. It is such a clean and nice style and should be used in more tile based games. Wonder what the original artist from PA thinks about it. Either he is mad, doesn't care or is flattered that his art style has found acceptance. :D
First up thank you for making this game. It looks fantastic. I have got a copy of PA and I just can't get into the whole theme. There is after all only so much a prisoner is able to do!
However like the original OP said, I would be very careful about potential litigation (I am not a lawyer) of using the same art style. Seems to me to be far too uncanny and therefore its likely it will be seen as a blatant attempt to hijack on the back of PA's success. I don't think the theme is enough to justify the change, as it could just as likely be a free to play (developer sanctioned) mod. Might want to check with a solicitor if you haven't done so already?
I personally would prefer if you went for a more gritty realism art style
I'm thinking that even something akin to Cannon Fodder, Sensible Soccer top down looks would be great. You can definitely get in enough characterization using just hair colour, skin colour, build, hair length and clothing without needing facial features.
Quote from: Belmakor on September 18, 2013, 09:53:55 AM
First up thank you for making this game. It looks fantastic. I have got a copy of PA and I just can't get into the whole theme. There is after all only so much a prisoner is able to do!
I'm in the same spot. I pre-ordered Prison Architect because it looked like a good idea and because I loved all previous Introversion Software games, but in the end, I didn't quite enjoyed it as much as I hoped to. My main problem was that the game was throwing new inmates at you regularly, but adding/expanding building is a very risky business with so much potentially violent prisoners running around, looking for exits.
I prefer the Rimworld approach separated between action phases and quiet phases, named dark and light phases in the game.
They changed the "throwing prisoner at you" mechanic to you being able to choose if you want more or not. It is an option now. :)
Glad to hear it, it's been a while since I played it. I'm waiting for the full version now, there is already enough people testing it and I contributed my fair share :)
So probably something relavent to this topic is the new post on the blog.
http://ludeon.com/blog/2013/09/seeking-artist/
Looks like maybe the PA artwork is only placeholder perhaps?
Quote from: The Ataraxist on September 18, 2013, 04:40:59 PM
So probably something relavent to this topic is the new post on the blog.
http://ludeon.com/blog/2013/09/seeking-artist/
Looks like maybe the PA artwork is only placeholder perhaps?
That is more or less what he said on the DF forum page.
Quote from: Belmakor on September 18, 2013, 09:53:55 AM
I personally would prefer if you went for a more gritty realism art style
I'm thinking that even something akin to Cannon Fodder, Sensible Soccer top down looks would be great. You can definitely get in enough characterization using just hair colour, skin colour, build, hair length and clothing without needing facial features.
I agree.
It's funny, there are only actually about 12 frames of character art in the whole game. If those were swapped out, would anyone really care?
I just really need to get an artist who can develop a RimWorld style. It just hasn't happened yet, everything right now is pretty much pseudo-temp in that it looks okay but I know we can do better. Even things like beds can look better than they do, and get different versions for the front, side, and back view to add some nice perspective-like effects.
I thought I'd have more time to work out this issue... the response to that one video I kicked out in like 5 hours has been stronger than expected. The game isn't quiiiiiiite developed enough to take on this much scrutiny. But it'll mature.
Just to update this, I have talked with Ryan Sumo, the artist on PA, and he's fully supportive of RimWorld. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.
Still working on getting an artist.
>.>
Do I need to be good?
Do you want the game to be good? ;) I guess consistency is a key word here. Content must match each other and form a theme.
I think it was about a year, maybe a year and a half, when I first tried DF. I was instantly hooked up to the game and I seriously could not believe it. I tried to retell the story of Moria many times...
I knew soon there would be many people willing to create new games with the same concept. Afterall, DF is a conceptual masterpiece. And I think this man is doing right by marketing Rimworld as a story generator. Thats is intelligent and personally my opinion would be that it has more fun potential. Building a prison is also a tremendous amount of fun but as others have suggested it seems to be a more linear experience. I hope the developers of PA probe me wrong because it is also a really nice game!
In conclusion I hope the execution of this game is good enough to provide a sandbox with likelihoods and probabilities yet quite a lot of possibilities and overall madness. Afterall, space is an infinite yet lonely place.
What first attracted me to PA was the artstyle, and I hope you keep it.
Its just an art-style that is so... brilliant & simplistic! That you kick yourself for not thinking about it first.
My 2 cents is that you should mention the artist in "special thanks", as he is deserving.
As for your thoughts of abandoning it, I would plea with you not to.
I really like it.
You shouldn't be pressured into doing so, just because another game "did it first".
Anyone who spends more then 2 seconds looking at the game-play realizes these are two really different games.
But be sure some "reviewers" will call your name "Prison Architect in Space", which at the end of the day will just be:
1. A comparison to a solid game.
2. Free publicity.
I think alot of people will flak this game if he kept it though, as it is a DIRECT port of the graphics, not just a similar style...
Maybe give them space suits?
Quote from: The Ataraxist on September 19, 2013, 06:55:25 PM
Maybe give them space suits?
Ofc, thats what I meant.
Just keeping the "cone-men with floating hands" aspect, for a lack of a better term.
Quote from: Ogaburan on September 19, 2013, 07:42:38 PM
Ofc, thats what I meant.
Oy! Don't get snappy...
You wern't clear, so I elaborated.
Anyhow, in order to do this right, perhaps Tynan should just HIRE the original artist, yes?
I never stop being amused when people bring up DF while talking about graphics.
However, if at some point you want to make a second game that's "Space Prison Architect" I would buy that in day.
Funny thing is, you can get prisoners in RimWorld. If you just never try to recruit them, you can keep as many as you want. So you could actually make a giant space prison if that's what you fancied (though the prisoners would never leave their cells).
In my imagination, I have a small colony with a giant prison of poor raiders or colonists who did something I didn't like. These people then do the menial labor for my better colonists. Then, if they ever riot or get upset with being a slave, and defeat my amazingly high-tech AI Security, I feed them to the Rancor, or whatever space monster is living inside the rock I carved my base into.
Sorry, where does the game takes place? On Space? Or on Earth? Some you say Colony, some space, which 1 of them are on Space...(Sorry for my english)
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 20, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
Sorry, where does the game takes place? On Space? Or on Earth? Some you say Colony, some space, which 1 of them are on Space...(Sorry for my english)
It takes place on an alien planet in outer space.
Quote from: Yarkista on September 20, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 20, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
Sorry, where does the game takes place? On Space? Or on Earth? Some you say Colony, some space, which 1 of them are on Space...(Sorry for my english)
If it takes place on alien outer space then why there are no aliens o.O, Police would be unfair to arrive there..
It takes place on an alien planet in outer space.
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 20, 2013, 04:01:26 AM
Quote from: Yarkista on September 20, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 20, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
Sorry, where does the game takes place? On Space? Or on Earth? Some you say Colony, some space, which 1 of them are on Space...(Sorry for my english)
If it takes place on alien outer space then why there are no aliens o.O, Police would be unfair to arrive there..
It takes place on an alien planet in outer space.
I don't like stupidity....
And yes there will be aliens in the game.
Quote from: Yarkista on September 20, 2013, 10:34:07 AM
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 20, 2013, 04:01:26 AM
Quote from: Yarkista on September 20, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 20, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
Sorry, where does the game takes place? On Space? Or on Earth? Some you say Colony, some space, which 1 of them are on Space...(Sorry for my english)
If it takes place on alien outer space then why there are no aliens o.O, Police would be unfair to arrive there..
It takes place on an alien planet in outer space.
I don't like stupidity....
And yes there will be aliens in the game.
Stupidity?If you mean stupidity on police, its not my idea, some threads said that, including the developer saying that as well..
Keep in mind the game isnt even in alpha yet.
If there will be an enforcement type of unit to come and save the day, Im sure it will be in a setting that makes sense.
Quote from: The Ataraxist on September 19, 2013, 07:58:58 PM
Oy! Don't get snappy...
You wern't clear, so I elaborated.
Anyhow, in order to do this right, perhaps Tynan should just HIRE the original artist, yes?
Yes, your right. I was not clear, wrote it in a haste... and i ended up only
meaning to say that.
To be more clear... I like the aesthetic design of the people and walls that are very similar to PA.
I was not aware these were direct ports, they dont look like they are to me...
But I dont have any facts or knowledge.
About hiring an "original" artist.
Its a double edge sword for the likes of me... who really like the current aesthetics even if not original.
And might not like the new aesthetics.
All i can do tho, is cast my vote towards keeping the current style. Hoping the dev will choose to do so.
Quote from: Yarkista on September 20, 2013, 10:34:07 AM
I don't like stupidity....
Wtf man...? Whats up with the hostilities?
Since when asking questions is a sign of stupidity anyway?
Especially about a game like this, that there isn't allot of info about...
And the info there is, is not exactly centralized.
With such a young forum, even i find it hard to understand what is an outdated discussion and what is not.
You forget not everybody has the time to sit and read through all the threads here... nor followed the development from day 1.
If you think a question insults your superior intellect, leave it to the other... more simple-minded people to answer...
^I am gonna have to agree. I think the art style is pretty awesome but I am not so sure how the public eye will see it... :/
Okay, so, I'm not actually planning on real aliens in the game. However, you may encounter variations on humanity who have evolved or been engineered into pretty radical new forms. For example, a "dwarf" who is really just a person from a population that evolved to live on a high-gravity planet. Or people who have replaced parts of their bodies with machines. I'm interested in the breadth of forms that humanity could take given enough time and being disconnected enough from each other - as we would be if there were no faster-than-light travel.
To get an idea for the setting of the planet, think about the Old West. This is why it's called RimWorld - it's a planet at the galactic rim, the uncivilized frontier. So there may be police units who come and go - representatives of some Imperial authority somewhere. But like the marshals in the Old West, they won't be around all the time.
In terms of art, we're not overhauling everything. I want to change the look of the characters, but not a ton more.
I think the way it looks works well for the top-down grid format.
Quote from: Tynan on September 20, 2013, 12:34:49 PM
Okay, so, I'm not actually planning on real aliens in the game. However, you may encounter variations on humanity who have evolved or been engineered into pretty radical new forms. For example, a "dwarf" who is really just a person from a population that evolved to live on a high-gravity planet. Or people who have replaced parts of their bodies with machines. I'm interested in the breadth of forms that humanity could take given enough time and being disconnected enough from each other - as we would be if there were no faster-than-light travel.
To get an idea for the setting of the planet, think about the Old West. This is why it's called RimWorld - it's a planet at the galactic rim, the uncivilized frontier. So there may be police units who come and go - representatives of some Imperial authority somewhere. But like the marshals in the Old West, they won't be around all the time.
Sir...Planet=Space
Right?I dont want to make more mistakes :S. If thats right, how can Police Units come?I think you have to build Comms radio and find parts for it and energy to make it online and contact back-up..
Lol you are getting way into the suspension of disbelief... It might be a bit to early to tell, but I dont think this is guilligans island type of isolation. More like, you got stuck in Wyoming and no one wants to give you a ride...
Quote from: thekillergreece on September 21, 2013, 12:45:33 AM
Quote from: Tynan on September 20, 2013, 12:34:49 PM
Okay, so, I'm not actually planning on real aliens in the game. However, you may encounter variations on humanity who have evolved or been engineered into pretty radical new forms. For example, a "dwarf" who is really just a person from a population that evolved to live on a high-gravity planet. Or people who have replaced parts of their bodies with machines. I'm interested in the breadth of forms that humanity could take given enough time and being disconnected enough from each other - as we would be if there were no faster-than-light travel.
To get an idea for the setting of the planet, think about the Old West. This is why it's called RimWorld - it's a planet at the galactic rim, the uncivilized frontier. So there may be police units who come and go - representatives of some Imperial authority somewhere. But like the marshals in the Old West, they won't be around all the time.
Sir...Planet=Space
Right?I dont want to make more mistakes :S. If thats right, how can Police Units come?I think you have to build Comms radio and find parts for it and energy to make it online and contact back-up..
Yea, just chill out a bit and accept it man. ;)
Quote from: The Ataraxist on September 21, 2013, 03:41:56 AM
Lol you are getting way into the suspension of disbelief... It might be a bit to early to tell, but I dont think this is guilligans island type of isolation. More like, you got stuck in Wyoming and no one wants to give you a ride...
More like, you're a European explorer shipwrecked in the Philippines in the 1600's. People actually did get shipwrecked and spend years buildings ships to get home. And they did end up interacting with the natives, or the representatives of hostile empires.