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Well since we have more things for modding, our "mods" section growth like accele-potato :o
So i have simple question above..Btw don't forget to discuss your opinion here  8)

Of course this is a good idea but also one that has many bridges to cross as it often has problem with more mods put together in a pack or working together. Some would probably use the same coding and changes of the default game which another relies on.

On the one hand, I'm a huge fan of community collaboration.

On the other, I recognise that being part of a community adds overhead that can sometimes be inconvenient.

As long as we can all continue to contribute freely to the collective pool of knowledge, I'm perfectly happy for anything I produce to be included in a community pack.

Quote from: DarkXess on March 02, 2014, 03:10:41 AM

Of course this is a good idea but also one that has many bridges to cross as it often has problem with more mods put together in a pack or working together. Some would probably use the same coding and changes of the default game which another relies on.

Which is why a well-curated mod pack could be reviewed and made sure that all the mods work together.

Yea of  course, but in the past with other mod packs such as the Ace2 mod pack for the Arma series for example, it came with many many problems at first and then more came along as more parts got added, they also had a good modding team working on it so ... I am not saying its bad to do, just a big project which will come with its problems  ::)

I would agree with it, but the system needs to go through a few tweaks yet. Once there's a sturdy community for it, probably by alpha 4, I'll be fully in support of it.

Here is my "I agree too, but.." post.

In principle I am fully for a community driven "base mod". But I think the problem will be the logistics behind it all. Who defines what, what to do, if two want to change the same thing, and so on.
I myself try to be as minimal inversive to anything other than the core as possible, but some things just aren't as independent right now as it may need to be. Just take a look at the traders right now :)

So there may need to be some serious conflict management, or waiting for betterment in alpha 3 or 4  8)

Good examples on well structured mod packs for minecraft that are worth looking at, are FTB and Tekkit. As far as I understand it, all mods are tested and reviewed to work together by the team who manages the pack. It is a lot of integration work when adding new mods to a pack but I think it's worth it.

As long as there is a credit. :) And link to the mod and the author approval by message or if the author allow it in some kind of agreement at the page. :)

Always better to ask. :)

I fully agree with the idea. It would make looking for and getting a specific type of mod group people may want easy. I personally this type of thing for Minecraft and Garrys mod.

My only real concern is who would put such a thing together and make sure that each mod works properly with one another? If changes needed to be made to a mod who would do it, the created of the mod or the person (people?) compiling the mod pack? Also the issue of credit comes into play for some people. In the case of Garrys mod credit is lost very quickly but that is also due to the shear number of mods available.

I know I am not really a big deal or anything on this forum but these are what comes to mind for me. I am not really asking these questions specifically either, its just food for thought, and like I said I do like the idea :)
Kilroy232

This is not only a good idea, it can bring modders together...and make massive projects.
I spend a lot of time at Civfanatics, and that modding community is just fantastic. The modders all generally have their own projects, but as well come together to make works of magic.
It allows for the creators time to learn different aspects of modding from their fellow modders..which is always a good thing.
Sure their will be the occasional moments of strife, but as peeps get to know each others strengths/weaknesses..ying and yang start to come in, balancing it all out.

modpacks of a sort seem like a great idea. And, hopefully, creating some shouldn't be too hard. I'm sure there are plenty of mods that could currently be compatible (as many mods don't actually overwrite core content, rather just add their own).

Quote from: Cala13er on March 05, 2014, 09:32:03 AM
If this mod pack goes forward. I request that my Industrial RIM Mod is not included without further contacting me about it.

Sorry,
Calum.

...Well considering this should be done only by permission, where people are splitting the workload. At least that is how I envision the process would work.
Someone would be lead, all would collaborate together picking their strengths..and moving forward.

Not some crazy modder randomly putting things together..that is just leading towards disaster.

Ahhh I see. In that case I'm up for it. Obviously my mod is alpha 3 only though.

Quote from: Cala13er on March 05, 2014, 11:55:36 AM
Ahhh I see. In that case I'm up for it. Obviously my mod is alpha 3 only though.

Glad I could sway your opinion, though I'm not obviously leading this project(or even really directly involved). At other forum mod sites this is generally the thought process.  ;)

I'll offer up all of my mods for this.

Depending on whether or not my mod interferes with Industrial RIM, (It has trees, I have fleas... I mean trees.) I'm willing to have my Wood Economy mod added.

I personally think that this is a great idea... If ts done right. All of the current mods all have to follow the same XML structure and can overwrite some of the original XML code. So making 5-10 mods work together wouldibt be too hard, just time consuming.

I think that this is a great project to work on to bring the modding community together. I would be extremely happy to join a team (if there is one) of people putting a pack together. So in other words... COUNT ME IN

No chance to keep it all up-to-date. Also, this removes the option to only select some mods to use.

With alpha 3 there might be a way to rewrite the way some mods are loaded, I haven't looked into the source though, just making a guess.

An example: have 3 mod folders inside a main mod pack folder "myModpack/modA, modB, modC" so the mod loader would just look inside one more directory. This would allow for mods to be enabled and disabled inside the pack

Why not just download 3 mods and enable/disable them using the currently implemented system?

This would allow for all of the mods to be in 1 folder so your mods folder doesn't get cluttered with 10 or so folders. It is also "easier and more manageable" to move 1 folder than 10 folders (I think). This would make it easy and more manageable for those special noobs who can't move multiple folders from one place to another

If you can move one folder, I'm sure you can move n+1 folders. So you can even move ten.
QED

Would that be worth of the mods not being updated? Basically, what would that by more than merging multiple folders in one?

Stop being so against it, get over yourself. If they want to make a mod pack then let them. That's like going to the Minecraft forums and telling everyone that modpacks are pointless because of forge.

I'm not telling anyone not to do it. However I have enough arguments why this is a waste of time. You could make more mods instead.

But of course, go on merging XML files together if that's the best you can do :P

You're full of yourself, grow up and stop being such a downer about it. Seriously.

If you're really that fussed about someone wanting to make a modpack, go onto Minecraft. Find Technic. Message the writers and tell them their modpacks are completely pointless because of forge. Because that's just dragging and dropping folders into another folder. Stop being such a dark ray.

I don't understand why should I contact anyone about something in minecraft. I don't know how their modpacks work on minecraft. I don't care. We're talking about RimWorld here.

Be so kind and stop insulting me.

Darker does have a point, at this point all a mod pack is is a collection of mods that anybody could put together. What a worthwhile and good mod pack adds is a balance mod. One that challenges the player to use every aspect of a mod to move on to the next one. So I can understand how making one for alpha 2/3 (maybe 4) would be "not worth it" or whatever. Until there is a very direct way to tie mods together and make one depend on the other, mod packs will just be a collection of mods, and not a pack of mods that function and work together to challenge the player

Adam. I never said it wasn't. I know It is.

Just he doesn't have to be such a downer about someone wanting to make a mod pack! Seriously most pathetic thing to argue about.

Ok, I see now.

Just trying to make sure both sides of the discussion were visible

I think the bigger advantage to a modpack is the convenience of not having to go and hunt down and install each individual mod one after another. Typically, mod packs wouldn't be a "add all the mods" sort of sollution, but a collection of mods that share some theme, such as a "Community Weapons Pack" that would contain all new weapons, but exclude all other mods.

It's a simplification of a process that can often take hours of browsing forums or mod sites, and if anyone is ever making an "annoyances-be-gone!" pack or something similar, then it would make a lot more sense for a mod like mine (a simple one-liner that changes explosive range of dead turrets) to be bundled into said mod instead of people having to hunt down and install my mod just to add such a minor tweak.

Of course, these things are going to be subjective, and people won't always like all the things in a mod pack. That's ok. The point isn't to produce a "satisfy everyone!" solution, but a general "here, try these mods out" suggestion and a link to the mods themselves if people decide to pick and choose on their own.

Having a mod pack isn't a terrible idea as it saves the need to download lots of different mods, however, as Darker said, it would then be far easier to just drag things into the mods folder from the downloaded pack. As for how mod compatibility would work in terms of XML, one person would need to change the name of each mod to be numbered. The last on the list to be launched overwrites all pre-existing defs, so with mods which overwrote the same things, it would be agreed who's is the most important, and theres would be loaded appropriately.

Equally you could just change your def names :P

I'm trying to give my mods very specific Def names to prevent any conflicts - and if these mods would be to included in some meaningful mod pack (e.g. thematic), I would not be against it at all.

But the idea of big modpack of random mods is ridiculous. It would end up being unupdated much like AcDie's INDEX, because wide mod scene changes too fast.

Changing the def names of items would be more than easy, it dost matter which mod is conflicting with another, Just pick one of the mods and change the def. Mot importance dost matter.

Darker certainly has a good point about changing the Def names.  One of the major issues with Feed The Beast occurred when Divine RPG was added.  Dear God, that was a horrible mod.

What I don't understand is why anyone has any problems with modpacks.  They make mods much, much easier to find and compile when someone's compiled them for you.  The main problem with modpacks is the necessity to create a modpack loader, much like Feed The Beast's launcher.  I would highly suggest that we all work on that, and worry about the various official modpacks later.

The first thing that should be worked on in the alpha stages of any game is setting up the basic, workable architecture.  Once you've got something to add actual content to, you'll be able to properly add content to.  If you fail at that, you'll be spending most of your time working on putting content into your game instead of working on the actual content.

I think most of the disagreement here is from people who like the idea of "community mod packs", but don't like the idea of a "community mods pack". Where you place that S makes a world of difference. A single mod pack that contains just about all of the modding community's mods would generally be a bad idea. A specific mod pack with a few mods is pretty much unobjectionable.

One thing that I would like to see is a Community Bug Fix Mod. Basically just a collection of small fixes that slipped through the cracks when Tynan releases a new update, maybe some minor adjustments that don't change the basic gameplay.

I just sat down and made something like this to teach myself how to write simple mods. It includes ItchyFlea's gibbet cage and plant fix, Nasikabatrachus' clean sand and I tripled the time the new colony happiness lasts. Before you ask: No, I'm not releasing this mod because it includes content from other modders. Besides, you don't want to play lab mouse for my mods - at least not yet... ;P

Now - as always with these kind of adjustments - it's debatable if they are true to Tynan's vision but he did say he wants to increase the time new colony happiness lasts and wants to get rid of some of the grass on sand. My idea of a community bug fix mod would be to fix real bugs and to adjust some issues that might only become apparent after a new version was tested. No new content, no radical changes unless they are clearly inspired by already announced plans from Ty.

Of course every author has to get credit for his work but that should not be too hard. Plenty of room in the mod description unless Ty goes on a bug rampage. =3

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If by mod-packs you mean 15 mods that all work perfectly together without making the game boring because things are to overpowering and at the same time give you loads of of great new items sort of like tekkit or FTB to minecraft then i AGREE and on top of that i have compiled a mod-pack for Alpha 2 to keep you guys having fun untill A3 all you need to do is click on this link to get to the right forum post ;)

http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=2784.0

I agree with Darker, I would much rather pick and choose what mods I want to use rather than being in an all of nothing situation. When I look at Cala13er's industrial rim mod, I see a dozen things I like but another 2 dozen things I don't want.  I like ItchyFlea's wood economy, and I want to use that one. I think human fertilizer is not something people would want to eat from, and much prefer wood mulch, not to mention that I also use bolti1703's cremation/morgue mod.

I don't want 50 different guns and 5 kinda of turrets. I don't think that even belongs in a mod supposedly about "industry".

I use the clean sand mod, but again, why is it in a mod that is ostensibly about industry? Same thing goes for different carpets and lights. And why get rid of farming?

To be clear, I'm not trying to disparage your mod, Cala13er, just using it as an example as to why mod packs aren't for everyone. I'm sure that for you, it has everything you want to give you your ideal gaming experience, but it isn't for everyone. If you released the different parts as separate mods, I would totally use some of them because parts of it look awesome. But since they're all packaged together, I use none of them.

Until there is a way to pick and choose to activate or deactivate different parts of a mod within the game's GUI, mods should remain separate.

Quote from: Cala13er on March 12, 2014, 02:12:31 PM
Adam. I never said it wasn't. I know It is.

Just he doesn't have to be such a downer about someone wanting to make a mod pack! Seriously most pathetic thing to argue about.

well ive made a mod pack and had some great feedback. so i agree with cala, what i did was find mods that work together and put them in one download. it took me so long to find a full list of mods that i loved every part of, so by making the mod pack ive saved so many people from having to spend pointless hours trying to maximise their rimworld experience ;)

Quote from: jamieg on April 03, 2014, 06:55:49 AM

ive saved so many people from having to spend pointless hours trying to maximise their rimworld experience ;)

See, this is the problem with mod packs. This collection of mods might maximize YOUR RimWorld experience, and plenty of people might enjoy it as well, but not everyone will agree. Letting people pick and choose individual mods lets EVERYONE maximize their own personal RimWorld experience. There will always be people too lazy or who just don't care enough to put in the effort to search out individual mods and will just be happy with a mod pack, but others will find that they add extra unnecessary content that they don't want or need and would rather be more involved in customizing their RimWorld experience.

you can pick and chose from this pack :D it ill not cause issue to turn some off, but by getting this pack at least you know they can all work together if you want them too ;)

But doesn't that involve deleting the mods (and core) folder and replacing it in its entirety with the mod pack? Which is what Ty said he'd rather not have people do in the other thread about your mod pack.

Quote from: OmegaConstruct on April 02, 2014, 11:19:19 PM
I agree with Darker, I would much rather pick and choose what mods I want to use rather than being in an all of nothing situation. When I look at Cala13er's industrial rim mod, I see a dozen things I like but another 2 dozen things I don't want.  I like ItchyFlea's wood economy, and I want to use that one. I think human fertilizer is not something people would want to eat from, and much prefer wood mulch, not to mention that I also use bolti1703's cremation/morgue mod.

I don't want 50 different guns and 5 kinda of turrets. I don't think that even belongs in a mod supposedly about "industry".

I use the clean sand mod, but again, why is it in a mod that is ostensibly about industry? Same thing goes for different carpets and lights. And why get rid of farming?

To be clear, I'm not trying to disparage your mod, Cala13er, just using it as an example as to why mod packs aren't for everyone. I'm sure that for you, it has everything you want to give you your ideal gaming experience, but it isn't for everyone. If you released the different parts as separate mods, I would totally use some of them because parts of it look awesome. But since they're all packaged together, I use none of them.

Until there is a way to pick and choose to activate or deactivate different parts of a mod within the game's GUI, mods should remain separate.

I've mentioned this over and over again! the Alpha 2 version of Industrial RIM has been made as a standalone mod, I didn't care for compatibility. I've taken a whole new approach to Alpha 3. Clean Sand And Wood Trees are still in the mod, however I plan on moving the guns and turrets of my mod to another post!

Human Fertilizer was just a thing I made due to the fact I wanted some way of growing crops faster whilst also getting rid of bodies. I've completely removed it Alpha 3 :).
Although I do have a plan for the future of bringing fertilizer back, just not human fertilizer. No the Fertilizer of the real world made up of nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, sulphur etc...

Hope that you can decide to use Industrial Rim in alpha 3 :)

i know what he wants for the next pack.

or rather i know how he wants me to do it next time

Lifes hard. No one can do everything. But that doesn't mean you can't do something. With that in mind, I highly recommend collaborations of all these great modders we have int he community to get together and discuss and work towards improving Rimworld. not just there version but every ones versions. Maybe you can do a little here and there, and then someone can take over and improve and balance and re-hash, and with several people working together you can get things done a lot faster and with more eyes to spot a problem or balance issue. MORE MORE MORE attitude does not make a better game. Its adding things that are not just good ideas but our highly polished, well thought out, and balanced.

Right now I think the biggest problem with the game is the pace. It is difficult to setup all systems to properly defend, and maintain happiness. That would be the biggest thing to take a look at and tweak. Either by giving a little bit more leeway before psychotic breaks happen.

Also raiders right off the bat and a steady supply of them forever doesn't make sense. I think there should be natives on the land who attack from the edges of the map every few in the beginning. Then after you have a certain amount of energy production or a comms center built, there are no raiders at all. It only makes sense that if you live on the outer edges of the universe that there wouldn't be people visiting constantly. Unless of course you have a huge energy signature or are talking up a storm on the comms unit.

Just aggressive animals and feral humans. Yes there is  a mod that adds feral humans and a Cyclops to the map. But that is not balanced and it is not a raid, its an aggressive species that lives right next to you. one thing at a time though. Ty whoever read this far.

How this could devolve into an argument on whether or not it is 100% a perfect solution to everything is mind boggling?  ??? >:( ??? >:(
If a group of modders would like to work together...so be it
If a person is overwhelmed with to many options...so be it
If a person would like to download a few mods to get alot of mods...so be it
If a person would like to download every single mod 1 at a time ...so be it.
If a modder wants to work alone...so be it.
If a group of modders want to work together...so be it.

Small print because it's all been said before. ::)