Dear Ludeon,
Today's (August 28, 2016) v15 update to RimWorld totally destroyed my (very lengthy) game-in-progress. This is frustrating to me and very uncool of your development team.
I was not given any chance to reject the update to v15, nor to reject updates to the mods that depended on v14. As a result, v15 updated automatically, and some but not all of the mods updated automatically as well -- all without any advance warning nor option to decline.
I am using Steam on Mac and was, after the fact, able to downgrade RimWorld to v14, but I could not find any way to downgrade the mods. As a result, I can no longer open my saved game files in any version -- v14 or v15 -- and it seems inevitable now that my game-in-progress is completely destroyed.
Even a trivial email a week ahead of time warning "your saved game-files are about to break, so here are instructions how to turn off auto-updates" would have been enough to avert such game-breaking behavior. Could you not be bothered to take such a simple yet fundamental action?
Of course, it's just a game, and not particularly important in the grand scheme of things, but still, I'd put a lot of hours into it and would have liked to finish it. Indeed, I am more upset at the basic rudeness and lack of courtesy evinced by the development team choosing to break all games-in-progress without warning, than the actual loss of my saved game files.
In sum, I think that is really remarkably bad practice to force game-destroying updates onto users.
RimWorld is a fun game when it works, but this is the second time in the past few weeks I've encountered a major game-breaking bug, and I won't stick around to try for a third time. Who's to say that my next game won't be destroyed tomorrow, or next week, or next month?
Hopefully at some point the developers will learn sufficient courtesy for their end-users to provide either warning in advance that an update is coming, or better yet, backward compatibility of save-game files.
Unhappily yours,
Pawn of Destiny
the only way to have mods not auto update is to manually download them from the forums
It's an alpha. Breakage is expected. That said, I'd say this is more of an issue with Steam's auto-update policy than the devs themselves. If you really want to manually choose when to update, I'd suggest downloading the game somewhere else (I'm sure someone can provide a proper link). Either that or keep an eye on these forums; we've been discussing & testing the new patch for over a week now.
In steam right click on rimworld>properties>beta tab, in the dropdown select the a14 and close the dialogue. Mods may not work though as they are updating to A15.
If you want to keep your mods you would have to have downloaded them manually from the forum, or with steamcmd and made a second install.
If individual mod developers decide to just update their existing mod on the Workshop instead of uploading an A15 version, that's not Tynan's fault.
If you still want to play A14 there's an opt-in branch for that.
The steam workshop may be convenient, but it is not a good tool for serious modding. Take a little extra time and do it right, to prevent headaches like this. If the mod authors still have the A14 versions available for manual download, you should be able to unsubscribe from the workshop and re-download the mods manually so you can finish your A14 game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/4zrotj/guide_how_to_update_an_a14_save_to_a15/
Steam does NOT care about your "Do not update" (or whatever) settings.
I can sympathize with you that it's fairly infuriating that such a feature even exists, since Steam has NEVER meant for it to work as it should (or as most sane people would expect it to).
I lost many nice modded games in the past because of it, even before said pseudo-feature was introduced : on Bethesda games (TES3/4/5, Fallout NV), Paradox games (Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis), The Creative Assembly (Total War games), The Sims 3, Mount & Blade, there are too many to list them all. The only replies I ever got from Steam were the same that people still seem to get today : basically f*ck off, and be nice not to bother me while I collect your money .
Make yourself a favor in the future (and I'll repeat what I've already said before on these forums) : do not buy games on Steam (or other DRM-enforced platforms, like Origin) that you intend to play modded. Favor options where YOU decide what to do with the game. Buy them directly from the dev (which also increases their income for each sale!), on GOG or equivalent sites if they still exist.
The only games worth being purchased on Steam are games that are old enough not to be patched anymore, or that you know you will never mod (and even then I feel a DRM-free option is always superior).
I wish I had known this before, because I have hundreds of games on GOG by now, many of which are games that I moved from my Steam library. This costed me double price.
EDIT : To be accurate and complete, there are also games on Steam which do not require to be connected to Steam before you can launch them (so that you can move them around as you like on your disk, and create local static copies of the game) : "Divinity Original Sin" is one of these games.
I will post a how-to on making a separate installation from steam, using steam, so you can have a solid version that will not auto-update and can still download and use mods from the workshop without worrying about them auto updating as well.
It takes a little scripting, and using steamcmd, but is very flexible and can be used for other games as well.
Quote from: KillTyrant on August 28, 2016, 05:05:40 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/4zrotj/guide_how_to_update_an_a14_save_to_a15/
I doubt this will help anyone if they have a game with (a14) mods that haven't been updated yet (to a15).
You know, before accusing people of not letting you know an update was coming, maybe you should read the devblog. Notice was given that an update was coming, as well as an email so you could turn your auto updates off for the game. You can also redownload all the old alpha 14 versions of the mods off the forums and manually places them back into the game yourself. It's not that hard to do and for all of us that have been playing since the beginning, it is how we have always had to do it.
Quote from: ThiIsMe007 on August 28, 2016, 05:42:16 PM
Quote from: KillTyrant on August 28, 2016, 05:05:40 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/4zrotj/guide_how_to_update_an_a14_save_to_a15/
I doubt this will help anyone if they have a game with (a14) mods that haven't been updated yet (to a15).
soooo.. then those people can wait for those mods to update to a15??
Quote from: KillTyrant on August 28, 2016, 05:49:54 PMsoooo.. then those people can wait for those mods to update to a15??
That is certainly one way to look at the matter.
I prefer to see the issue as "how about Steam made it so that its "Do not update" feature did what it advertises ?"
Quote from: ThiIsMe007 on August 28, 2016, 06:43:19 PM
Quote from: KillTyrant on August 28, 2016, 05:49:54 PMsoooo.. then those people can wait for those mods to update to a15??
That is certainly one way to look at the matter.
I prefer to see the issue as "how about Steam made it so that its "Do not update" feature did what it advertises ?"
Steam doesn't have a "do not update" feature...
> Steam doesn't have a "do not update" feature...
It used to. I'm not sure when it changed. I'd say it was there maybe two years ago, though. Hidden deep, but there. Now it's not even hidden. It's just gone.
Quote from: NolanSyKinsley on August 28, 2016, 06:44:50 PMSteam doesn't have a "do not update" feature...
It has been an eternity since I last used Steam, and you're correct, they've finally removed the feature (I just checked).
You can stop the autoupdate. Steam will still que up the item into your download list; however, you can set it so it will not start updating games from your que until you manually approve them. It is not that hard to do.
You can also use steamcmd to force a different install directory, and run it from there. Steam will then not update it unless you do so with steamcmd.
Quote from: PotatoeTater on August 28, 2016, 07:01:00 PM
You can stop the autoupdate. Steam will still que up the item into your download list; however, you can set it so it will not start updating games from your que until you manually approve them. It is not that hard to do.
You can also chose not to use Steam.
Maybe is it a concept that's difficult to understand for some, but it has been working perfectly fine for me.
Quote from: NolanSyKinsley on August 28, 2016, 07:03:32 PMYou can also use steamcmd to force a different install directory, and run it from there. Steam will then not update it unless you do so with steamcmd.
You and I know what steamcmd is (thanks to you (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=21400.msg255869#msg255869), by the way), and how it could work for Rimworld, because it seems that the game doesn't need to be connected to Steam to run (I wouldn't know, I bought my copy directly from this site).
I wouldn't know about most other players using Steam however. Usually, it's "the simpler the better" for everyone.
I feel the pain.
Unfortunately I can't email you ahead of time since I don't know your email. Valve doesn't give developers identifying information about players who buy the game on Steam.
However, you shouldn't have lost anything. You should be able to set the game back to alpha14 as others have explained, and continue where you left off.
The exception would be in case a modder updated their mod, which could cause trouble, unless you copy the mod files out to prevent them from changing.
Unfortunately Steam really doesn't offer good solutions for this kind of situation; they designed the whole thing for finished games that don't change much. For a game under an aggressive development schedule like RimWorld, with major structural changes and redesigns on a regular basis, that's a problem. I'm frustrated with Steam's lack of support here so I plan on trying to get them to make an effort to improve this. It is a serious hindrance.
QuoteWho's to say that my next game won't be destroyed tomorrow, or next week, or next month?
I can say that for certain, your game won't be wiped any time soon.
You could follow the blog to get a warning for the next update (ludeon.com). Or my Twitter. But as I said before, we have no way of contacting you to warn you.
Happened here too, saved my game last night thinking i'd built the most functional colony so far. Which won't work today, because even if i go back to A14 on Steam, my mods have already been updated. Sure, there may be a way to get it all back, but it's a much bigger hassle than to simply restart the game once all mods i want are updated to A15.
This isn't the developer's fault, this lies solely on Steam.
even not steams fault.
it is the Workshop that makes Problems.
if you use steam and MANUALLY install all mods, you wont have any Problems going back to 14 with your mods on steam now.
Problem is, most People dont know hwere to find the mods or dont want to waste their time looking.
so in the end, it is the users fault for using mods, they have no clue about, how they work on an Alpha game.
Quote from: Grishnerf on August 29, 2016, 01:18:50 AM
even not steams fault.
it is the Workshop that makes Problems.
if you use steam and MANUALLY install all mods, you wont have any Problems going back to 14 with your mods on steam now.
Problem is, most People dont know hwere to find the mods or dont want to waste their time looking.
so in the end, it is the users fault for using mods, they have no clue about, how they work on an Alpha game.
Not really, it's still Steam's fault for not providing a way to manually update games AND related mods. There is no excuse for forcing updates, not for Microsoft, not for Steam, not for anyone. That alone would solve this issue completely, i would set auto-updates OFF, finish my colony and then see if enough mods are updated to start a new one.
Don't blame the end user for a shitty system on the other end of the chain.
Seconded that Ludeon should freeze all development on Rimworld so that save games don't get broken...
Seriously, talk about your first world problems.
Quote from: warden on August 29, 2016, 01:32:38 AM
Quote from: Grishnerf on August 29, 2016, 01:18:50 AM
even not steams fault.
it is the Workshop that makes Problems.
if you use steam and MANUALLY install all mods, you wont have any Problems going back to 14 with your mods on steam now.
Problem is, most People dont know hwere to find the mods or dont want to waste their time looking.
so in the end, it is the users fault for using mods, they have no clue about, how they work on an Alpha game.
Not really, it's still Steam's fault for not providing a way to manually update games AND related mods. There is no excuse for forcing updates, not for Microsoft, not for Steam, not for anyone. That alone would solve this issue completely, i would set auto-updates OFF, finish my colony and then see if enough mods are updated to start a new one.
Don't blame the end user for a shitty system on the other end of the chain.
totally true, im also not a fan of that steam Workshop System.
but in the end, it is the users Problem, if they dont make their Research of how to use mods properly.
Quote from: ThiIsMe007 on August 28, 2016, 05:15:17 PM
Make yourself a favor in the future (and I'll repeat what I've already said before on these forums) : do not buy games on Steam (or other DRM-enforced platforms, like Origin) that you intend to play modded. Favor options where YOU decide what to do with the game. Buy them directly from the dev (which also increases their income for each sale!), on GOG or equivalent sites if they still exist.
+1 And this is exactly why I don't (or at least very hesitant) buy games on steam.
Tynan, couldn't you use the steam news feed for rimworld to send this message? Just a thought...
Quote from: pawn_of_destiny on August 28, 2016, 04:27:42 PM
Unhappily yours,
Pawn of Destiny
turn off auto-update in Steam
Quote from: TrashMan on August 29, 2016, 05:23:11 AM
Quote from: pawn_of_destiny on August 28, 2016, 04:27:42 PM
Unhappily yours,
Pawn of Destiny
you may wanna read the thread, steam doesnt do this anymore.
turn off auto-update in Steam
Quote from: NolanSyKinsley on August 28, 2016, 04:57:17 PM
In steam right click on rimworld>properties>beta tab, in the dropdown select the a14 and close the dialogue. Mods may not work though as they are updating to A15.
Thank you! Y'know, every once in a while it isn't so bad being the dummy who doesn't mod...
How about "it's an alpha, don't build hugeass colonies and get emotionally attached to them, because next update WILL break the savegame"
There, fixed it for you. Take this words like gospel and you'll be fine.
Quote from: warden on August 29, 2016, 12:43:24 AM
Happened here too, saved my game last night thinking i'd built the most functional colony so far. Which won't work today, because even if i go back to A14 on Steam, my mods have already been updated. Sure, there may be a way to get it all back, but it's a much bigger hassle than to simply restart the game once all mods i want are updated to A15.
This isn't the developer's fault, this lies solely on Steam.
Here too - then I went and saw a posting (by the developer) on how to use the A14-Beta Path, and read another article about how to replace any mods as they are updated with the (hopefully still available) A14 versions. Im back up and running and playing.
No need to stress. Game is Alpha, gonna be some work to play sometimes.
PSA 8):
- steam -> rimworld -> properties -> updates -> only update when i launch it
- steam -> games -> add non steam game to my library
- browse->rimworldwin.exe
- use new shortcut to play rimworld instead.
- get mods from the forums. more ocntrol over the version you are getting, and they usually come out here first anyway.
just something i learned while modding fallout 4
- Purchases and plays game in Alpha
- Under heavy development, rapidly changing
- Incensed when the game, in alpha, under heavy development, and rapidly changing affects *his* savegame
Dev's, though, aren't cool. Could you guys just slow it down, maybe not do your dev thing a while....
MRW: (http://i.imgur.com/JdbfQ5z.gif)
Quote from: Tynan on August 28, 2016, 07:45:34 PM
Unfortunately I can't email you ahead of time since I don't know your email.
Is Tynan able to send a announcement to everyone's email that registered on the forum? We have the option to disable getting them under the Notification section of our profiles. He could even mirror the dev blog posts as a newsletter or something.
I can't say anything about the mods as I play vanilla, but that said: I had a similar experience.
The first v15 can out and I got the famous notice about "things might break". I though something like 'meh, how bad can it be?' and just started the game and load my v14 savegame. ^^ bäM: no UI, alarm sounds and I couldn't do anything...had to kill the process in task manager o.O
I reverted the version back to v14 in steam > Rimworld properties > Betas (see screenshot). No automatic updates since then and the savegame could be load and played without a hickup.
This is different from the "don't upgrade" option, however I have used that before too, without problems either...
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The best plan is not to use the steam version. Though I would suggest asking the dev to integrate some of the more popular mods so there isnt as much breakage and delay between version.
The best plan is to not get emotionally attached to your colony and make new colonies when a new alpha comes out to TEST the new features.
Coz that's why you bought an early access alpha game, to HELP TESTING.
Asking the developer to integrate those mods into the main game just so they don't get broken every update would increase the workload on a feature he may not want to add every update. Not to mention, some modders may not want their work taken away from them (I'm sure many would be happy, I remember a few things being integrated over the alpha's, but not everyone is the same).
How many other developers integrate mods into their main game just so they don't inconvenience mod users, especially in a game that is only Alpha. You paid to join the early access of the game, in the spirit that the game will get frequent updates. If you don't like that, why did you buy it? Why didn't you just wait for the full release, or buy it on the website and just stick to one Alpha.
If you expect the developers to make drastic developments on an ALPHA build of a game, then you are really tying and limiting their hands. You choose to play mods by your own choice, just because the game is designed around letting them be added, doesn't mean you are being told you have to have them.
And, as much as I love this game, and generally don't agree with early access titles, it's just utterly baffling to me that people complain when the dev doesn't update the game every week, doesn't add significant features everyday, and then when they do, they get mad because their saves or mods aren't compatible. It happened on KSP, it happens here, on every Alpha and early access game you just see people whine and complain about everything.
You don't need to be thankful or grateful for everything Tynan (except basic manners, you are a customer, not a friend) does because he is doing his job, he is creating his art that he wants to share with you (for a price), and equally, you agreed by purchasing that product to any changes that happen to the game. Maybe a future lesson for you is, don't buy early access.
Quote from: PotatoeTater on August 28, 2016, 05:49:22 PM
You know, before accusing people of not letting you know an update was coming, maybe you should read the devblog. Notice was given that an update was coming, as well as an email so you could turn your auto updates off for the game. You can also redownload all the old alpha 14 versions of the mods off the forums and manually places them back into the game yourself. It's not that hard to do and for all of us that have been playing since the beginning, it is how we have always had to do it.
Since you are playing on steam, there was also a post on steam about the unstable branch and shit which would have warned like you wanted that ur games were gonna break.
Uh, steam auto updates every game in your library unless you tell it not to?
I also assume this is your first post here, but tynan is pretty vocal about turning off auto updates if you want our saves to continue through. I feel like we get good enough notice... The games in Alpha, it's gonna get lots and lots of updates. Most of them game breaking.
Hell, even that could be part of the rim-universe. Your colony didn't get destroyed by a raid, but a random hot fix!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> Uh, steam auto updates every game in your library unless you tell it not to?
The newer steam does not allow you to disable updates.
The fact that almost all of the active modders said this would happen as well lends weight to the "we had time" argument.
I'm not sure why this thread lives on. Tynan put an A14 release onto Steam. There's nothing he can do about the automatic update, although as a developer, he should complain about that. Developers should make the final decision on the automatic nature of an update, not Steam. The only other issue is the SteamWorkshop automatic update of mods. Solution is, don't use those mods via Steam installation.