Hi everyone,
Im challenging everyone to a speed run where the goal is to get off the planet with your original 3 colonists as fast as possible, would anyone be up for the challenge?
We'll be using the map that you can download below as to avoid RNG screwing people over.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7wzqaf84vn5x60/Rimtown%20%28Permadeath%29.rws?dl=0
Rules:
-no save scumming and permadeath must be on
-all three original colonists must survive and escape (any wanderers/slaves/recruits can die)
-no mods
I think this would be a lot more fair if a save game from the very start of a colony is handed out. Else this is really a challenge as to who has the most patience to brute force the RNG.
Also, no mods?
No mods, just the vanilla game. where can i find my save files, so i can upload a map so it wont be down to RNG?
See attached.
You'll need to compress the file to a .zip or the like to be able to upload it here.
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Maybe we Should do the opposite as well, Everyone start with the same Save File on Extreme Cassandra and See how long everyone can Survive.
Quote from: Kindyj on September 16, 2016, 02:11:17 PM
Maybe we Should do the opposite as well, Everyone start with the same Save File on Extreme Cassandra and See how long everyone can Survive.
That sounds like a pretty good idea
this is gonna be an interesting thread. I want to follow this. good luck to all who take part here!
Maybe we can all share exploits, tips and strategies for clearing the game fast?
I see the OP got stealth edited to including a map without being pointed out.
Anyone actually trying for this? I'm interested, but not if I'm only competing against myself.
EDIT: I see the save file is 0.15.1282 which isn't A15c. We are supposed to be doing this in A15c, yeah?
Just don't let britnoth, disnof or zeeboszone participate. Coz that would be like organising a backyard football competition and invite messi xD
Ps: as of writing this, they hold the current launch record by launching under 4 game days. A lot of map rerolling was involved, but apart from that no mods as far as I know. And only 1 colonist launched.
4 days with a custom scenario or 4 days with a standard crashland?
4 days doesn't sound too bad if you have an infinite supply of drugs, bionics and pawns. It's quite another to do it as a mere mortal.
Quote from: carbon on September 22, 2016, 10:41:21 AM
4 days with a custom scenario or 4 days with a standard crashland?
4 days doesn't sound too bad if you have an infinite supply of drugs, bionics and pawns. It's quite another to do it as a mere mortal.
There is a link to the stream in this post :
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=25968.msg266126#msg266126
25.96 Days according to the history tab.
Some mistakes were made, so it's quite possible to do better, but that's my final time.
Your move.
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Quote from: zandadoum on September 22, 2016, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: carbon on September 22, 2016, 10:41:21 AM
4 days with a custom scenario or 4 days with a standard crashland?
4 days doesn't sound too bad if you have an infinite supply of drugs, bionics and pawns. It's quite another to do it as a mere mortal.
There is a link to the stream in this post :
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=25968.msg266126#msg266126
It's impressive but hinges on abusing the games stat system to make superhuman work speed pawns. When you can get off the planet in 4 days there's a number of challenges inherent to the game difficulty (food, defense) that can be ignored.
25 Days with a pure vanilla crashland start sounds doable.
Yeah. It certainly would have been easier to strip several days worth off my time if I didn't have to worry about raids, heat waves, psychic drones and general bad RNG. But if you strip all those things out, it really isn't Rimworld any more.
I do look forward to any other attempts to speed through that map. I assumed there wasn't any plasteel to be mined (or not enough to matter), so I bought / deep-mined it all. Could be there is some out there, but you'll have to risk wasting time hunting for it.
EDIT: I should also point out that only one of my original three colonists is addicted to any drugs (the one that is just addicted to luciferium). I was kind of fond of the idea that they might be able return to semi-normal life after it was all over. I'm clearly not true speed runner material. :D
Quite an irritating map. No visible plasteel and unlikely to find any. Rich in silver, gold and jade however, but most resources were a long way from the map centre, involving long walk or haul times.
Started with a careful shot... but he is also your researcher; delaying hunting. I planted a large crop but as usual, got a blight half way through its grow time. Relied on the mined silver and gold around the map for money until I recruited someone reasonable at hunting.
Decided to go for trading for the plasteel and ignore the deep mining research trap. Three outlanders to trade with made this pretty obvious.
First visitor was a lone lvl 17 researcher.... I probably should have risked nabbing them, but ehhh. ??? If i had plasteel to mine I would have, but wanted to keep my trade options open. Research was done before resources were ready in the end.
Built some turrets.. but in the end they only saw action once. Other raids were when I had traders visiting and I did not want to risk shooting them. :D
Ship ready at 19 days 1 hour. I hadn't played a no plasteel map in a15 and it shows. ;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUL28Skt6E
Quote from: Britnoth on September 25, 2016, 12:53:02 PM
Quite an irritating map. No visible plasteel and unlikely to find any. Rich in silver, gold and jade however, but most resources were a long way from the map centre, involving long walk or haul times.
Started with a careful shot... but he is also your researcher; delaying hunting. I planted a large crop but as usual, got a blight half way through its grow time. Relied on the mined silver and gold around the map for money until I recruited someone reasonable at hunting.
Decided to go for trading for the plasteel and ignore the deep mining research trap. Three outlanders to trade with made this pretty obvious.
First visitor was a lone lvl 17 researcher.... I probably should have risked nabbing them, but ehhh. ??? If i had plasteel to mine I would have, but wanted to keep my trade options open. Research was done before resources were ready in the end.
Built some turrets.. but in the end they only saw action once. Other raids were when I had traders visiting and I did not want to risk shooting them. :D
Ship ready at 19 days 1 hour. I hadn't played a no plasteel map in a15 and it shows. ;D
Agreed about the map being irritating. I played the map quite a few times to get a good run, but ended up launching at 17 days 15 hour.
How did you get the silver to trade for that much plasteel? I ended up slaughtering all of the first traders and sold their stuff later to traders in other factions.
Anyways the run was recorded, so I'll upload to my youtube later and chuck a link for anyone who wants to watch.
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Quote from: LedgeG2 on October 01, 2016, 08:14:12 AM
Agreed about the map being irritating. I played the map quite a few times to get a good run, but ended up launching at 17 days 15 hour.
Quote-no save scumming and permadeath must be on
Quote-no save scumming and permadeath must be on
I was under the impression that it's not savescumming if you reload the entire map from the start? I could be wrong about this, but I thought space races were the same. You could start again from the beginning? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm still new to these race things.
I'm generally with Britnoth on this.
If I could redo the map, I'd have no reason research the deep mining scanner, since I already know where a plasteel deposit is. That alone would shave several days, but wouldn't be fair to anyone else.
Also, your photo is a tad revealing, if you get my drift.
Quote from: carbon on October 01, 2016, 12:07:56 PM
I'm generally with Britnoth on this.
If I could redo the map, I'd have no reason research the deep mining scanner, since I already know where a plasteel deposit is. That alone would shave several days, but wouldn't be fair to anyone else.
That's a good point (I haven't thought of abusing the deep mining resources like that).
Here are my reasons for why I think restarting from the very beginning should be okay in a challenge like this.
1. Fairness: Only having one run, means that some people are more advantaged than others from completely RNG reasons. For example, in my first run, a wanderer joined my colony who was completely useless. Artistic was one of the only capable skills, I ended up euthanizing her so that she wouldn't eat all my food. That, among some other things that happened made the run very unlucky. No matter how good we are, a bad run can slow our game dramatically. If however, we could reload from the beginning, it would give a safeguard for generally unlucky runs while still having a relatively normal game.
2. Speedrun: In my mind, if we are speedrunning a particular map, then it's about challenging ourselves and the community to learn how to abuse and exploit the map as much as possible to win as fast as possible. So knowing where to deep drill, although seems very exploit-y is completely okay. I should clarify that I don't think this holds true for general game speedrunning. In standard game speedruns, it's about beating the game from the very beginning, which is the start game menu, in as little time as possible. So playing the same map multiple times would be cheating, since random map generation is part of the game. But we are still allowed to start over from the beginning (start game menu). But when someone gives us a map to play, the loading of that map becomes the beginning location. So it would be totally okay to restart from there.
3. Savescumming: The only thing I can find in the rules that is even related to being able to retry the challenge is savescumming. From what I understand, savescumming is the process of saving a game before something bad happens and then reloading to manipulate the RNG to your advantage. This can be repeated to get optimal rolls on everything and essentially abusing the RNG system to the point that in any normal game, the order of events that happened would essentially be impossible. There is also the possibility of saving just when a bad situation happens so that if you mess up, you can just reload and retry, without having to start from the beginning. This is against the nature of speedrunning so I agree that it should be a rule. However I don't think that loading the game from the savestate given to us is savescumming. Firstly, the game is still a normal game, the RNG system isn't being abused throughout the game (merely reset for fairness among participants). Secondly, reloading the map from the save file given to us involves no saving on our part. Maybe this situation should be called loadscumming? lol.
4. Fun: Personally, I really enjoyed playing the map multiple times and seeing myself improve along the way. It allowed me to try a few different strategies and to find one that works. Perhaps there are better strategies for this map. Well the beauty of being able to retry the challenge means that we can go find them. Only having one attempt, where RNG is a deciding factor for my performance does not sound fun to me at all.
I'm not sure what intention the OP had for how the challenge was supposed to be undertaken regarding multiple attempts. But whether or not I agree with them, I will respect their decision on the matter. Either way, thanks for the challenge, it was fun :D.
Quote from: carbon on October 01, 2016, 12:07:56 PM
Also, your photo is a tad revealing, if you get my drift.
Do you mean that the screenshot is too zoomed out?
We all get bad RNG and have less than ideal strategies. One example: I had Toni undergo a mental break that rendered her useless for an entire day early on, but I rolled with it.
It's also not quite fair to the folks who only have enough time / interest to make one go at it. Certainly if this were less of an ad hoc challenge, between random volunteers, a race to lowest time via unlimited retries would make sense.
In any case, for the record:
My attempt was a singular try, beginning to end, with no advanced knowledge of the map contents.
Restarting the map is just the same as save scumming at any other point in the game:
1. You now have foreknowledge of the map and its resources.
2. You can simply restart if you make a mistake or get sub optimal RNG.
The skill involved in the game is reading the map, your colonists, and the events that happen and adapting your strategy to them. Trial and error is removing skill from the game, not just the RNG.
3. There is no risk involved in taking risky actions. Open up the ancient danger? Delay building defences? Arrest visitors? Kill traders? Just restart if something goes wrong.
The problem to me here is you take all the risk out of the game. No risk, and any reward feels worthless. Doing well then feels worthless. Going faster than someone else feels worthless. Going slower just feels like you should have played the map ten times instead of five. At that point, the game is no longer a competition, but just an exercise.
QuoteDo you mean that the screenshot is too zoomed out?
From what I can see:
a) You had foreknowledge of the map and decided to setup right there based upon it.
b) You are unaware of some important game mechanics regarding the research bench. ;)
Oh yeah. Didn't even see that bit.
Research benches outside get a x0.75 workspeed penalty. You want them inside and in a clean room (sterile is ideal).
Quote from: Britnoth on October 02, 2016, 01:45:28 PM
Restarting the map is just the same as save scumming at any other point in the game:
1. You now have foreknowledge of the map and its resources.
2. You can simply restart if you make a mistake or get sub optimal RNG.
The skill involved in the game is reading the map, your colonists, and the events that happen and adapting your strategy to them. Trial and error is removing skill from the game, not just the RNG.
3. There is no risk involved in taking risky actions. Open up the ancient danger? Delay building defences? Arrest visitors? Kill traders? Just restart if something goes wrong.
The problem to me here is you take all the risk out of the game. No risk, and any reward feels worthless. Doing well then feels worthless. Going faster than someone else feels worthless. Going slower just feels like you should have played the map ten times instead of five. At that point, the game is no longer a competition, but just an exercise.
You've just described how general speedruns are played, yet at the same time said that it feels worthless. So I'm just going to say that you can have that opinion but I disagree with it. I think the skill here is the strategy, execution and adapting to what happens throughout the map.
Quote
From what I can see:
a) You had foreknowledge of the map and decided to setup right there based upon it.
b) You are unaware of some important game mechanics regarding the research bench. ;)
Of course I had foreknowledge of the map. I straight out said it. I wasn't trying to hide it because I legitimately thought it was the rule. Based on my arguments I still have this eerie feeling that it should be.
Hahahahah, I did not know that. :D
I fixed the screenshot anyways. Sorry about that.
Quote from: carbon on October 02, 2016, 03:20:52 PM
Oh yeah. Didn't even see that bit.
Research benches outside get a x0.75 workspeed penalty. You want them inside and in a clean room (sterile is ideal).
Thanks for the heads up :D. Didn't think sterile would make a difference either.
Quote from: LedgeG2 on October 02, 2016, 05:32:35 PMYou've just described how general speedruns are played, yet at the same time said that it feels worthless.
Correct. 99% of speed running feels worthless (to me at least).
If your actions don't really matter, why not just play a VN or something...
PS. As people complained that starting with the perfect traits wasn't realistic, I tried a run using the default crash landing scenario. Just heavily rerolled my starting 3 colonists until I got something suitably impressive. Launch time: 3 days 7 hours. Game is still unbalanced as all hell. ;)
Quote from: Britnoth on October 02, 2016, 06:56:58 PM
PS. As people complained that starting with the perfect traits wasn't realistic, I tried a run using the default crash landing scenario. Just heavily rerolled my starting 3 colonists until I got something suitably impressive. Launch time: 3 days 7 hours. Game is still unbalanced as all hell. ;)
Nice... Ohh yeah, after you mentioned your time to me a few weeks ago, I tried a few times myself and got like 8 days. I would love to know what strategies you used and how you executed them, did you record? :D Is there a community or forum around speedrunning this game? With race events and records and stuff? I'd love to get into it.
There are a few twitch streamers/rotten-fruit-throwers (like myself) that play space race runs. Sadly the last 2 alpha updates have made it a bit of a joke now.
Recorded I have, uploaded I have not. I suppose... I don't feel it is warranted when there are literally 3 or 4 decisions to be made when a run lasts sub 4 days. ???
Start with incredible colonists. Take all the drugs. Don't waste time doing things you don't need. Get up the comms console immediately and call an exotic goods trader and pray they carry an AI core. That is about it. :-X