Does anyone else have serious issues, while trying to quell (dangerous) behaviors in members that have broken? I find the death rate, from a simple social fist fight IS MUCH TOO HIGH. This has made any attempts to curb these behaviors a coin-toss, as to whether the colonist in question will actually survive. This is just too common.
Also, I'd HIGHLY SUGGEST a super-visible icon or status symbol, to indicate RIVALS. It is a pain in the butt, to have to check social statuses, every time two colonists start fighting. AND, these social stats do not always indicate any kind of real problem -- until the colonist is DEAD and the attacker has "My rival died." /facepalm While I have come to the conclusion that Rivals kill each other much more readily, in a fist fight, it's very difficult to mitigate, with little-to-no information that this bad blood has already started boiling over ...
I'm not even on Extreme difficulty, with these problems. Intense is my current level. Honestly, this situation is beginning to feel artificial and extremely heavy-handed. There should be an EXTREMELY low chance that any colonists kill each other, in social fights, if non-existent (except for Rivals, of which we'd hopefully be made aware of.)
A final point -- The dead colonist was not on any pain reduction drugs, nor had a Painstopper implant.
Thanks for your time.
When I'm playing without Combat Realism, its not uncommon for people to get their arms punched off or outright killed. I agree, its a bit much at times, but short of forcing pawns to deal low damage rolls (Literally pulling punches) when not fighting rivals, I'm not sure what the options might be.
I would just straight out make impossible to kill or rip off any part in social fights. I mean, those idiots kill themselves but then cry over a harvested prisoner that I used to save a pawn? These guys can go fuck themselves.
it's all about "fun" and "drama", in some cases, issues with mood are more severe then raids and cause more harm.
Quote from: RawCode on December 04, 2016, 01:19:31 AM
it's all about "fun" and "drama", in some cases, issues with mood are more severe then raids and cause more harm.
If that is a justification for the (all too common) murder of an allied colonist, in social fights and during arrest procedures, I'm just not buying it. There is PLENTY ENOUGH "drama" and "fun" already. Also, if the drama / fun is the point -- Where are the social indicators and system to "pull us in" and help us understand what is going on (to FEEL the drama?)
Already, I have explained that these nuances are just practically lost, on us, until someone is DEAD. This hardly adds any value to the immersion, and I posit, is simply a mechanic to further PUNISH any kind of actual micro-management of colonists. Again, I suggest a lighter method of handling this situation.
Quote from: Alenerel on December 03, 2016, 08:21:04 PM
I would just straight out make impossible to kill or rip off any part in social fights. I mean, those idiots kill themselves but then cry over a harvested prisoner that I used to save a pawn? These guys can go fuck themselves.
This is a suggestion I completely agree with and feel the example, provided, excellently shows why it's just so dang silly (edit: outside of Bloodlust / Psychopath + Rivals, both [And even then, I'd only say if they were Rivals AND had extremely poor social standing -- "bad blood"],) to begin with. Artificial, heavy-handed punishments need to go. It'll take some work but, a bit more organic feel to the difficulty would be nice.
What is the death rate of social fight?
ZorbaTHut told me there's a .4% * normal chance to be hit by a deafall trap for comparison.
~500h in A15, never lost a colonist to social fight.
1229 hours. CC Intense (and the matching difficulty, from A14) Permadeath. I've lost too many of my best colonists to a social fight or arrest procedure, into Berserk, than I care to admit. And, I get that Berserk has a connotation, to it but, I'd say my loss rate of berserk arrests is ~20%, no joke. Anymore, when I see a social fight break out, or have to arrest a colonist, my GUT CLENCHES because I know there is an all-too-real chance that someone is about to just MURDER another person, with their bare (non-Power Clawed / non-Scyther blade) hands. No pain inhibitors involved.
I promise you, Ludeon: I'm having a great deal, of fun, and feeling the challenge in the best of ways -- all without seeing my own people just wringing their hands for a chance to kill each other. It's too much. It shouldn't even happen, unless certain (extreme) criteria are met.
Again, thanks for your time and thoughts.
In all of the many social fights I've seen, only one has resulted in death. Clearly I'm having a different experience with the game than you guys lol
It would be interesting to see what the social fight mechanics are and use those to determine exactly what contributes to social fight injuries and death.
I highly suspect social fights work on the same code any other melee fight would. When a pawn is downed, there is a hard coded chance for them to die outright. This can be modded out and people already have done so.
About 1/3 of the fight result in an eye scar or a missing eye; no deaths up so far, but that's ridicolous anyway. Do you know how much strenght do you need to punch an eye out of a socket? Eyes are made to stay in!
Any blow so strong to pull an eye out, is strong enough to smash our skull (and your neck in the process)
My biggest irritation with this is that sometimes by around 3 years no one can shoot for **** because everyone has bad eyesight from fighting.
Like, can you not all blind each other please?
I don't mind anything else, but ffs stop going for the eyes.
I fully agree on this,
So much that I modded it myself a week or two ago, setting the social fight chances to 0.
I also reduced the impact of people "slighting" and "insulting" themselves...
If someone don't have the time/skill to mod it, I don't mind uploading it in the forum.
For thoses interested the lines to edit are
In \Defs\InteractionDefs\Interactions_Social.xml
set the value in those lines:
<socialFightBaseChance>0.005</socialFightBaseChance> (In the Slight interaction)
<socialFightBaseChance>0.04</socialFightBaseChance> (In the Insult interaction)
to 0 (or whatever value between 0 and 1, for 0 is "never" and 1 is "always")
In fine, I think social fighting should be re-adjusted.
Maybe happening only on "break risk" pawn, and being less fatal...
Because it's really disturbing and feeling unnatural when it happen on a daily basis!
(Oh almost forgot to mention that colonist attacking almost on sight another pawn that have the "staggeringly ugly" trait, feel just as bad. No joke.)
It could be that an attack with a crushing weapon has no chanche of hitting an eye.
It would be a welcome mod.
Quote from: Konscience on December 06, 2016, 04:46:39 AM
(Oh almost forgot to mention that colonist attacking almost on sight another pawn that have the "staggeringly ugly" trait, feel just as bad. No joke.)
I have one with that trait, he gets insulted by 4 people each day and goes into a fight each 3 days, his melee is high so he was able to survive a lot of the abuse.
Lol, if you DO kill off someone with that trait, everyone gets a mood buff..
Hahahaha sound like those tribes in Africa who slaughter their owns because they were born albinos...
Still it's quite sad (or maybe controversial for the more sensitives).
One of my pawns died in a social "claw" fight (neko people from the orassan mod), the surviving one got into another fight the day after, this time with my protagonist (rich explorer scenario)... After the fight ended (no one died) I killed him on the spot (guilty of attempted murder). Immediately installed the "no more random death" (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27580.msg279912#msg279912) mod.
It really irked me that it could happen anytime again, when i least expect it, and that i could do nothing about it. It was just a fist fight, nobody had to die!, I didn't even know it could happen!.
There are many things like this in this game, that makes it artificially harder, i hope this gets fixed some day (it is still alpha). Or better, that Tynan changes his mind on those matters.
People really seem to underestimate the damage someone can so with just their fists if they're pissed off enough.
You have tabs that tell you exact info on people's relationships with one another. Two colonists get in a scuffle due to overall bad relationship? Assign them to different work shifts to keep them separated but still productive.
If I'm a colonist in an already stressful situation of living on the rim and Tim the crafter decides to make a passing comment about my mother being related to a muffalo, I'm probably gonna make sure he knows how I feel. Probably with my fists.
I don't know... I always found it fishy when my pacifist raged & assaulted his own colonists that are stranded together from a spaceship crash, but wouldn't help fend off against raiders that want to do far worse.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on December 13, 2016, 07:25:18 AM
If I'm a colonist in an already stressful situation of living on the rim and Tim the crafter decides to make a passing comment about my mother being related to a muffalo, I'm probably gonna make sure he knows how I feel. Probably with my fists.
You have a point. I just imagined the situation and I would be very mad and depending in if I like the person, neutral or he already been being an asshole the whole time since the crash I would go even with intent to kill.
Still, this is a game not a real life simulator. The only question to ask ourselves is, is it balanced? The problem is if you gang the colony in melee to stop these two pawns, they can end up dead too and I think thats not fair. There should be something like an option to make several pawns arrest one pawn at same time to ensure they win or an option to melee them without being lethal.
Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 06:15:06 PMwithout being lethal.
This ^
The only idea so far I had, was to create awfull wooden club, burn them to 5% hp with molotovs, then use them as crowd control weapon.
(If you wanna know why wooden club and not wooden shiv,
well the awfull wooden shiv do 1pt damage, but can easily hit the eyes, who never heal)
I had a social fight involving one pacifist. The pacifist didn't fight back, he seemingly wanted to go away, but the attacks locked him in his tile. Seems like there're no pacifists actively being involved in social fights.
Sent from my HTC
As an update, I finally overcame my rage and started playing again, to finish out and launch to space. Three arrests / social fights later ... Two dead. You have got to be kidding me.
@Goldenpotatoes, Until we have a justice system, for punishing this, in some way (besides spitefully killing off the offender, which I've done before) it's just not fun or balanced. I agree with @Alenerel: This isn't a real life simulator -- it's a game and this particular component is not even fun. There are PLENTY of ways in which to lose a colonist, already.
Also, in arrest situations that don't even involve the emotional rage component ... why is anybody dying? If you go to arrest, and they berserk, the arrester shouldn't be murdering them, as a response. Also, your comment about "just separating them" when they have bad social relations is ... just not practical, in a game that already requires mountains of tending / micro. I say this because I've seen plenty of "Rivals" born from fairly low negative social scores. Am I to anticipate every -15 relationship, as a potential Rivalry and separate my entire colony, at all times? My answer to this is not, "no" but, "Hell no."