Ludeon Forums

As announced here: https://ludeon.com/blog/2016/12/alpha-16-on-public-unstable-branch/ (https://ludeon.com/blog/2016/12/alpha-16-on-public-unstable-branch/)

Please do not report bugs here. If you find a bug, please report it in the Bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0)!

In this thread, I'd love to get:

• Play stories
• Balance thoughts
• Clarity and interface feedback
• Other design feedback

(This thread is for meaningful, useful feedback, to help us design the game. Low-effort or off-topic posts, including random suggestions unrelated to A16 updates, will be removed.)

Thanks greatly!

The warning that pops up about generating a 100% complete globe taking a "very long time" seems a bit overkill. It only took me ~50 seconds to load (did it twice consistently) and I'm on a non-gaming laptop that's a few years old. A "very long time" in a dwarf fortress world generation context would probably be minutes or hours.

Probably should include a "cancel generation" button on the loading screen for cases where it does run long for some reason. Hitting 'Esc' didn't appear to do anything.

The the initial selection of a base location highlighter could probably be made more visually apparent. It's nearly, if not fully, invisible while zoomed out.

Either that or allow the user to center the screen on the currently selected location, because it is very easy to lose track of it. The Lat. v Long. doesn't help without corresponding map lines.

In previous alphas, even if your last pawn died, there was always a way to come back to life by simply waiting until a wanderer joins.

In the new version, I abandoned all colonies while a caravan was away and then the caravan pawns died. This left me in complete limbo where I could not resurrect or interact with the world in any apparent way.

If all pawns (and animals) die with no colonies active, it would be nice to have the option to resettle an abandoned colony and wait for a wanderer there (assuming the post-death wanderer is still a thing).

EDIT: To go along with this, when you are in this post-death limbo state, the game should halt autosaving (or limit it to only one slot). Otherwise, the game can very quickly overwrite all meaningful autosaves as the passage of time moves very fast, but doesn't correlate with anything meaningful happening.

Congrats on the ambitious update!

Loving the new research screen, but as a modder it raises a few concerns, unless I'm missing something.
Coordinating between dozens of different mod authors, as to where their research projects should exist on the chart, will quickly become a problem. The game does try to find some open space for overlapping items, but with enough mods it is bound to turn into a mess.

I can see two potential solutions:

1) Add tabs to the research window.
One tab for each mod that adds new research projects. Each tab will contain a clean sheet for research placement. The problem are prerequisite researches from other tabs, with the potential solution being that the mod author explicitly places references to those researches in his tab.

2) Keep all projects in the same view, but divide the sheet in section rows. Each mod with research projects will have their own row, and their researchView coordinates will be relative to their own section. The height of the sections would automatically accommodate all items contained within, or be specified in the defs. For more clarity the sections could be titled with the mod name and could have up/down arrows to reorder the sections on the sheet.
Scrolling would need to be addressed, as well- dragging to pan the view could be a good option.

Could you check the cheapest suggestions? Some are really cheap and useful. For example, able to sort the work tab or the animal tab by name, and there are a lot of balance issues there too.

About the alpha itself, do you know when will be the full release? I mean, about a week, about two weeks?

BTW you said that not all the content is included? What can be missing being the final stage before being released?

Quote from: Alenerel on December 12, 2016, 05:42:21 PM
BTW you said that not all the content is included? What can be missing being the final stage before being released?

Not content, "player content". Which would be Name in game/Backstory in game characters.

Quote from: UnlimitedHugs on December 12, 2016, 05:39:44 PMLoving the new research screen, but as a modder it raises a few concerns, unless I'm missing something.
Coordinating between dozens of different mod authors, as to where their research projects should exist on the chart, will quickly become a problem. The game does try to find some open space for overlapping items, but with enough mods it is bound to turn into a mess.

Depends how it's implemented.  The research tree was already a "tree" before the update, it just didn't display as such.  If the new UI positioning is hardcoded it might be a problem, but if it's a generic tree layout algorithm I don't see why it should be an issue any more than it is in A15.

When i attack an outpost and have killed all the people, please stop making indoors un pathable, right now i have to draft, move them onto a door then click inside.

Quote from: Grishnerf on December 12, 2016, 08:19:57 PM
fire sustainer was null

This is a Bug, please Read the first post and put this in the Bug Report Forum.

Unfortunately, I had only few hours to test this new release, but what I noticed is that you cant just randomly enter to whatever tile. You have to eighter "settle" it, or attack a colony. Why not let player enter every tile? It could help, for example surviving biomes like desert or ice sheet, because you cant search for animals to hunt there (By the way, it works now too, you just have to settle next to the enemy colony, attack it, and instead of shooting pawns, shoot wild animals and just leave - what I noticed is that enemy is always passive when you begin an assault, so no risk and free food :) ).

To push the limits of the current system, I tried attacking an outlander outpost in the very polar regions of an ice planet. Some things need some work.

1) Outpost was heated by only a few fires with no backup wood supply. Fires go out and the entire outpost begins to freeze starting the third day. You might disable outposts in areas where the temperature falls outside acceptable limits or at least provide more permanent heating and cooling infrastructure for those that need it.

2) There's really nothing to prevent me from setting up a mini-colony in the outlander's backyard (I really started to). I can carry in some components and there's always plenty of steel around to mine. I would suggest disabling all building options except walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots while attacking.

3) The outlanders finally came out of their little center area to attack me on the third day (after they began to freeze to death). I can't tell if this was done on a timer, because they were taking losses or because I had built up a small barracks (with indoor heating!). If there's a specific counter attack mechanic, it should be clearly indicated somewhere. They came upon me rather stealthily.

4) The outlanders completely gave up after I downed only two of their people (plus one I psych lanced another via local ancient danger room drop, plus 2 dead by hypothermia, plus one they friendly fired). Given I came in with only the starting three and they had 15 to 20 to begin with, I expected more resistance. I'm not looking forward to underwhelming victories in the late game when I have actual gear and troops.

5) There's no current warning if you send a pawn(s) caravaning that has clothing poorly suited to the climate. Given heat/cold can kill in these contexts while days away from the nearest shelter, an "Are you sure?" would be appropriate.

Quote from: carbon on December 12, 2016, 09:07:09 PM2) There's really nothing to prevent me from setting up a mini-colony in the outlander's backyard (I really started to). I can carry in some components and there's always plenty of steel around to mine. I would suggest disabling all building options except walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots while attacking.

Is being able to build in an enemy's back yard a bad thing? I'd sooner call that a strategy than an exploit. Isn't there historical precedence for an enemy to build a new fort near an enemy's position?

So I attacked 2 bases and completely destroyed the enemy even though I had about 5 people. They had like 10 people? Anyway I can kill them one by one and they they dont all come out until most of them are already dead. Im not sure if they should know im here automatically when I spawn in, but currently they are way to easy to gank. Imagine if I had a few snipers?

Why cant we enter individual zones rather than just settling it? I thought in this update I would run out of resources in my cell and then just go to the next doors one and take from there without settling in it. Still a great update tho!

Also picking up the items is a nightmare. I have to claim the doors and then click the items to be picked up one by one. I dont think the menu where you can reform the caravan and select what items you want from the destroyed outpost is working as intended.

Really excited about this and a cool story that happened was that for some reason when one of my pawns got downed and I had them pick her up and take her away from here, she made her own caravan and then an AI caravan showed up and I accidentally attacked them and its just my one pawn with her dying friend in a small map because it was mostly mountains. I had her find some nearby ruins and wall herself in there. Imagine in a month the stories that will be generated? Great work!

I was on Day 6 of a "Some Challenge" Cassandra game when I got a distress signal event. I accepted the caller and waited for the raid. There were only 2 pirates (expected), except one of them had a Good Machine Pistol... and was a decent shot with it. (Uhoh.)

Has the difficulty of early pirate raids been increased? Or did I just get unlucky? (Also, I'd suggest upping the first difficulty leap from 5 colonists to 6 colonists; it feels like the 5th colonist is usually a Distress Signal event, which means you get a moderate difficulty raid while you've only had time to arm 4 colonists.)

Quote from: Thundercraft on December 12, 2016, 11:08:53 PM

Quote from: carbon on December 12, 2016, 09:07:09 PM2) There's really nothing to prevent me from setting up a mini-colony in the outlander's backyard (I really started to). I can carry in some components and there's always plenty of steel around to mine. I would suggest disabling all building options except walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots while attacking.

Is being able to build in an enemy's back yard a bad thing? I'd sooner call that a strategy than an exploit. Isn't there historical precedence for an enemy to build a new fort near an enemy's position?

I agree to leave this in, its not gamebreaking, not a huge exploit, its just..odd...

No reason to disable it, if you ask me.

Only issue I can see is ALL events, good and bad of colonies are disabled then, including wanderers, and traders, and trying to form caravans soooo... And this is relatively obscure anyways...

Hey Tynan! Great job with the new content! Just wanted to let you know my experiences so far with the new stuff. Also I'm going to list the bugs I've found but I can re-post that information to the bug thread.

Anywhoo, first off, love the new UI content. Just a small example is being able to decide which stone blocks to make. Also, having a tech tree that is a lot more visual is really nice. I also like how raiders and animals can get up after being downed.

Some issues I'm having: first off, I don't know if you'd consider these bugs or if they were intentional: traders are not enabled. As in, they no longer show up. I had a visitor at the beginning of my colony. Almost at the end of my second year and I haven't seen a visitor since the first one.

Also, when you are sending out a caravan, your people don't take care of themselves. I was going to send out a small caravan with two people and they wouldn't eat or sleep while packing. I can force them to eat and then they go back to packing up the muffalo (which is good!). However, they won't sleep and I can't force them to sleep so they (along with the muffalo) pass out from exhaustion. The muffalo cannot be force fed.

I have not actually gone through with a caravan outing, after a few tries (and my people practically killing themselves), I just decided to reload an earlier save before I told them to go out. I'm sure they would have left after packing, but I didn't really give them the chance since they kept practically dying.

Only real bug I saw was that the sound shut off randomly fairly early on. It worked when I reloaded the save (saved after the sound shut off and it came back on alright after restarting the game)

Thanks for the update and keep up the great work :)

Scratch the "no visitors thing" I said earlier.

Just got a solo visitor.

May have gotten more and just not noticed? I rarely pay attention to the visitors. However, even if I had forgotten about a few, I do think they are at least showing up far less frequently.

There are still no traders that I have seen though.

Loving the update so far.
Have some feedback.

Builders default repair work as priority. Super annoying when trying to rebuild a freezer before everything spoils or my builders have a mental breakdown but they insist on plugging the bullet holes in the walls.

Traders are willing to pay a lot more for goods now. Seems like it could use some more balance. It would be too easy to get rich selling stone blocks when they buy them for around 1 silver each. Also, I've been selling dead raiders clothing for 20-30 silver when they would have sold for .50 in A15.

Colonists insist on hauling corpses to a stockpile before hauling them to a grave.

Is it just me or do colonists build stone floors way faster now? Don't get me wrong, it's nice, but it doesn't feel like I'm "paying" anything for them.

I like that I can't cook in the freezer, or stuff my colonists in a 1x2 room without penalty.

Thanks for the fantastic update.

Just got my first combat supplier so ignore the "no traders" thing as well. Interesting that it took that long to get one though.

Update: Major bug with the trading. Twice I have traded with other factions who came to my colony to trade.
They give me all the silver they owe me but it bugs out and doesn't give my items to the other faction that I'm trying to trade. Awesome for me but potentially game breaking.
I don't know if it's all items, but it was a combat supplier (I've only gotten combat suppliers) and they didn't take the weapons or animals I tried to give them. But they gave me a couple thousand silver. So yay!

Can we see the travel time to nearby destinations before sending out a caravan? As is, I have to send out a caravan (and determine how many days of food it has) before I see how long it takes to actually travel somewhere.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 13, 2016, 03:43:01 AM
Can we see the travel time to nearby destinations before sending out a caravan? As is, I have to send out a caravan (and determine how many days of food it has) before I see how long it takes to actually travel somewhere.

I second this request.

What does it mean when it says "Your faction can only have one base." I assume it's possible to settle another base, otherwise the button wouldn't exist at all. Is there some prerequisite, or do you actually have to abandon your old base entirely to form a new one?

Not really a fan of the combined beauty and room stat indicator. The display feels incredibly cluttered regardless of what information I'm looking at and I lose pretty much the entire SW section of the beauty display due to the room stats being displayed on top of it.

In the hundreds of times I've used those tools, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've used them simultaneously.

Quote from: Crater on December 13, 2016, 04:24:59 AM
What does it mean when it says "Your faction can only have one base." I assume it's possible to settle another base, otherwise the button wouldn't exist at all. Is there some prerequisite, or do you actually have to abandon your old base entirely to form a new one?

It's in the options menu.

QuoteTraders are willing to pay a lot more for goods now. Seems like it could use some more balance. It would be too easy to get rich selling stone blocks when they buy them for around 1 silver each. Also, I've been selling dead raiders clothing for 20-30 silver when they would have sold for .50 in A15.

Goods are also quite a bit more expensive. I haven't played a full game (Would be impossible considering how slow I tend to play, anyhow, :p) yet, but in a test game a bionic was selling for ~1900, which is a bit over 40% more than normal.

Are there mods that can work with A16 from A15? For example simple mods that just add or change some defs, like items.

Quote from: carbon on December 12, 2016, 09:07:09 PM

2) There's really nothing to prevent me from setting up a mini-colony in the outlander's backyard (I really started to). I can carry in some components and there's always plenty of steel around to mine. I would suggest disabling all building options except walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots while attacking.

Completely disagree, there's no logical reason this should be impossible and it's not really a game breaking advantage. If you want to build a siege camp with a pool table and luxury suites then why not?

Tynan please do that on the abandoned colonies could rebuild, and the ruins of the colonies that were built were preserved and the whole card. Please Tynan (I'm sorry for the mistakes Russian)

Quote from: Yoso on December 13, 2016, 06:43:50 AM

Quote from: carbon on December 12, 2016, 09:07:09 PM

2) There's really nothing to prevent me from setting up a mini-colony in the outlander's backyard (I really started to). I can carry in some components and there's always plenty of steel around to mine. I would suggest disabling all building options except walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots while attacking.

Completely disagree, there's no logical reason this should be impossible and it's not really a game breaking advantage. If you want to build a siege camp with a pool table and luxury suites then why not?

There is a logical reason if it exploits the AI too much, but yes, I'd rather see improved AI if possible.

Could we maybe get the other bases to have maybe some sort of food generation? Even if it's just in a way of a caravan dropping off supplies or something, it's too easy to just build a small base for a few people and wait till they drop dead of starvation. Also, maybe more loot that makes these bases worth hitting? Such as weapons, gold, silver, bionic parts, etc

^ That's part of the reason I was against mini-bases on enemy territory.

The others were:
1) Can build mini-killboxes, making offensive raids trivial (and exactly like traditional defense).
2) Events are disabled on the enemy map, so you can safely wait out a negative event at a nearby enemy base (e.g. toxic fallout). That pokes a gaping hole in the "enemy base is dangerous" narrative.
3) It just makes the enemy AI appear even dumber than it already does, given that they don't seem to care about truly egregious trespassing.

Still having walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots available would enable the player to build a plausible siege camp, but long-term infrastructure and hardened defenses are effectively off limits. This is presumably supposed to be a battle, not a slumber party.

The alternative is that the AI is far more aggressive with counter attacks on their territory, always attacking within 3 to 6 hours of arrival. However,  I could easily still see a crude killbox going down in that amount of time (if turrets and traps aren't disabled).

EDIT: I would also strongly recommend turning off ancient danger room generation in foreign faction bases. In many contexts they are just going act as a de facto killbox (lure enemy into a nest of mechs / insects). It is reasonably plausible the local residents would have already cleared out whatever threats were present when they started their colony.

One thing that really bugs me is, that when in a caravan and you get ambushed your colonists don't automatically take food out of pack animals (like muffalo) when they need it. yes I make sure to undraft them but post fight when I'm trying to heal up battle wounds is where the problem lies.

Quote from: PocketsOSunshine on December 13, 2016, 02:03:07 AM
Also, when you are sending out a caravan, your people don't take care of themselves. I was going to send out a small caravan with two people and they wouldn't eat or sleep while packing. I can force them to eat and then they go back to packing up the muffalo (which is good!). However, they won't sleep and I can't force them to sleep so they (along with the muffalo) pass out from exhaustion. The muffalo cannot be force fed.

I have not actually gone through with a caravan outing, after a few tries (and my people practically killing themselves), I just decided to reload an earlier save before I told them to go out. I'm sure they would have left after packing, but I didn't really give them the chance since they kept practically dying.

How is it taking you that long to load up a small caravan?

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

We're working on some of the more important bugfixes and then may be able to look at the subtler design improvements under discussion here.

Having got a notification that needed me to check out the world map, I discovered that perhaps we need a "Zoom to own colony" button as I seem unable to find my own colony on the map now in order to send out a caravan

Quote from: RayvenQ on December 13, 2016, 10:10:22 AM
Having got a notification that needed me to check out the world map, I discovered that perhaps we need a "Zoom to own colony" button as I seem unable to find my own colony on the map now in order to send out a caravan

This has come up a few times, so I think we're going to add it.

Awesome, or if not a zoom to function, a "hide all except my colony" tick mark, that way its easier to spot your colonies if you have multiple. I did however like the event that caused me to get lost in the world screen, you probably know which one.

Thanks for all the little quality of life changes you've made, the time until bleed to death is very helpful.

• I love the added descriptions and info messages, like, "[Item] is degrading due to not being under a roof," and "Will bleed to death in X."
• The World screen is so incredibly cool. It's a real shame that it's difficult to render 100% of it, because when it pops up and 70% - 50% of it is blank ... it dampens the experience. I would either make players wait for the whole world to render, have the world render dynamically as the user is looking at it, or generate less up front so the user can really experience that earth-discovery-site-selection experience. This is really going to be a "wow" moment for the first-time player, I feel strongly that you should nail this. I also noticed the streamlined site selection and exploration process, and I think it's good - you merged some of the DF-ish inspections like the heat map, etc., and it totally works.
• I'm really concerned about the construction and repairing skills being merged together in the Work pane. If anything, I would go in the other direction - the work skills desperately need finer tuning (i.e. break down into MORE buttons). For example, building roofs - because it's the last thing the building colonist decides to do, you have to build exactly one building at a time, and wait for them to build the roof, before assigning *any other* construction task. It SUCKS. Now I fear we'll have to do the same thing for repair - e.g., if there's a raid, I'll have to cancel all my pending work so builders focus solely on repairs first. Whereas before I just set repairs to 2 and construct to 3. (And I would really, really love to be able to set roofs to 2.) I know right now you have the "simple mode" with the green checkmarks and "advanced mode" with the numbers 1-4; perhaps there could be a 3rd mode. Or change the right-click to show an advanced menu instead of incrementing the number value?
• Was there always a "kind" colonist attribute? I saw that pop up and thought it was a nice touch.

That's all for now, sorry I haven't gotten to make a caravan yet; I'll post more as I get to it.

Quote from: terheyden on December 13, 2016, 12:13:56 PM
...Was there always a "kind" colonist attribute? I saw that pop up and thought it was a nice touch....

Kind is definitely new.
The Cold / Heat lover traits also seem to be gone (or exceptionally rare).

Balance/story: I was traveling and found in one place 3 ruined building made from plasteel. For my just started tribe it was real treasure (210 plasteel)... and it feels a bit too much (plasteel buildings too common?) to be right. Or maybe I was just lucky.

Design: Constant "beeps" and messages about dead plants are kind of annoying. Not sure if they are more good than bad (or vice versa). Add option to turn them off maybe?

Can confirm. In the three initial locations I've settled, I've had several (1-3) walls each having ~75 plasteel in each wall formation. I never got those in A15, so it seems to be a conscious decision/artifact of a change in the procedural generation. I think it's a bit too much. Maybe if there is that much plasteel, have a lower chance of occurrence?

Quote from: terheyden on December 13, 2016, 12:13:56 PM

• The World screen is so incredibly cool. It's a real shame that it's difficult to render 100% of it, because when it pops up and 70% - 50% of it is blank ... it dampens the experience.

at planet creation you can set the render % up to 100.

Play story: I haven't logged too much time in A16 yet and I played a good deal of A15 with the hospitality mod on (among others), so my experience might be biased. That being said, in the few colonies I've started in A16, visitors are always running around right next to my sleeping colonists. This creates high values of disturbed sleep really quickly.
Even when I have a barracks made for colonists, visitors and their animals cycle through the room multiple times per night before leaving. I'm not sure what the mechanic was in vanilla A15, but it'd be nice to designate a separate spot for them to gather.

Modding request: WorldComponents. A good number of mods used MapComponents for global state, in part because they conveniently get serialized to save files. It doesn't look like there is an equivalent in A16, which will make updating those mods harder.

I know you can't spend that much time on it, but a simple copy of MapComponents would likely help modders out quite a bit. It would also let us do more with the world map without running into serious compatibility issues.

I sincerely second Zhentar's request. I use MapComponents as controller objects, which also need to save their state. While I could replace their functionality by using Unity's GameObjects with MonoBehaviours, I'm not really sure where I should now store their information. Attaching it to a particular map seems risky, given that players can conceivably create (and abandon?) multiple colonies in a single game (unrecommended option, but still).

A MapComponent that is attached to the world instead of a specific map would perfectly replace the old functionality, and be a lot more accessible to mod as well!

Thanks for the notes.

I'll look into the plasteel shrine thing. It does sound OP.

It's a bit late but I'll try to get some sort of global "GameComponent" in that can serve some of the old roles of MapComponents. Might be A16, might be A17.

just a minor Thing:
many People dont get the multiple colony aspect and still think they only can have 1 colony.
they dont look Options to set it to 5.
maybe add that at new game/planet creation instead.

The unstable version has been updated December 13 with some bugfixes, to build 1386.

Git log since last build:

Fix: Temperature changes at wrong hour
Fix: Items with a negative default beauty are modified by quality
FixedCheck graphic is more readable, especially for colorblind.
Typo and backstory miscategorizations.
Fix: Can only smelt grenades, can't smelt what should be smeltable
Fix: If you use "Clear all", the system sets AllowNonDeadmansApparel to false even though it's hidden.
Fix: Default outfits have hidden AllowNonDeadmansApparel set to false.
Enemy bases under attack now counter-attack based on new triggers: Chance on pawn lost, chance per tick, always after 4.2 days, and if urgently hungry. This avoid starvation and various exploits.
Ensure D clothes are made very cheap. 50% factor -> 10% factor. Deadmans apparel has a x0.1  factor score change instead of a -0.5 offset.
Fix: StorytellerComp_AllyInteraction has a maximum time between trade caravans, but it doesn't work unless a trade caravan has already happened randomly.
There's now a message when a caravan runs out of food.
Bases spawn with more enemies.
Fix 2814: Constructors sometimes bring too many resources to frames
Player content update.
"Days worth of food" calculation is now more accurate.
Fix 2846: Drug addiction need is satisfied without drugs while in a caravan
Fix: SplitOff with count <= 0 when forming a caravan
Fix 2832: Mechanoid disassembly efficiency stat doesn't affect mechanoid disassembly yield
Fix 2849: IED going off causes error
Fix: Joy is ticked even while sleeping even though it uses freezeWhileSleeping.

Quote from: Grishnerf on December 13, 2016, 02:20:23 PM
just a minor Thing:
many People dont get the multiple colony aspect and still think they only can have 1 colony.
they dont look Options to set it to 5.
maybe add that at new game/planet creation instead.

It's not designed as a multi-colony game, most players should only have one. This is intended; when I release the update video it'll have more explanation of this.

"StartCarryThing desiredNumToTake =-1" seems to be going nuts after the update, do we need to start a new game, or is this just a new bug?

Fix: Items with a negative default beauty are modified by quality

does that mean stuff that has negative beauty can now go positive. What about things made of stuff, so as an example if something is made of steel it has a beauty of -1 would making it out of gold put that into positive (it doesnt currently as it cant go above 0 as it was minus to begin with).

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 13, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
"StartCarryThing desiredNumToTake =-1" seems to be going nuts after the update, do we need to start a new game, or is this just a new bug?

Sounds like a bug, let me take a look.

@Tynan:
Are downed attackers from failed raids supposed to eventually get back up and wander around? I had a raider get back up and walk around while I was busy building a jailcell for him. Had to beat him back down because he was scaring the colonists.

Quote from: Tynan on December 13, 2016, 02:46:39 PM

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 13, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
"StartCarryThing desiredNumToTake =-1" seems to be going nuts after the update, do we need to start a new game, or is this just a new bug?

Sounds like a bug, let me take a look.

It seems to fire at any workbench; druglab, electric stove and brewery are confirmed, whenever the desiredNumToTake is =<0. If that helps.

desiredNumtoTake error is fixed here. Uploading now. Please wait 30 minutes for upload and then restart Steam and the game to update.

EDIT: Updated and live on Steam now.

Quote from: Tynan on December 13, 2016, 03:02:00 PM
desiredNumtoTake error is fixed here. Uploading now. Please wait 30 minutes for upload and then restart Steam and the game to update.

As a token of my love for the work you do, I'm never going to turn you into a hat ever again. No matter how nice that hat would be.

Cheers :)

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 13, 2016, 02:52:25 PM
@Tynan:
Are downed attackers from failed raids supposed to eventually get back up and wander around? I had a raider get back up and walk around while I was busy building a jailcell for him. Had to beat him back down because he was scaring the colonists.

No, traditionally they don't. I think they couldn't, but maybe new healing code allows them to. Let me look into it. Thanks for the note.

Also, this is just a gut feeling ATM, but I think the temperature/rainfall scales on world generation might be too extreme. I set my world to Rainfall +1, Temp +2 and ended up in a rainforest with an average temp of 120F and no Growing Season. I set my next world to Rainfall -2, Temp +1 and now the entire world is Tundra, Shrubland, or Desert. (There's only one tiny patch of forest in the entire world.) I'm not sure if this is working as intended or if it's too extreme.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 13, 2016, 03:26:35 PM
Also, this is just a gut feeling ATM, but I think the temperature/rainfall scales on world generation might be too extreme. I set my world to Rainfall +1, Temp +2 and ended up in a rainforest with an average temp of 120F and no Growing Season. I set my next world to Rainfall -2, Temp +1 and now the entire world is Tundra, Shrubland, or Desert. (There's only one tiny patch of forest in the entire world.) I'm not sure if this is working as intended or if it's too extreme.

Don't forget that there are quite a few of us who love playing on extreme maps. I myself am currently enjoying a pleasant outside temperature of -128C, and an average of -96.4C throughout the year. And for once, I didn't have to spend several days finding a seed that was cold enough :)

From a modding point of view, it would be really nice if there was a class between MapParent and FactionBase, something like
Establishment/Settlement which is not necessarily attackable, does not necessarily have a trader present, does not necessarily contain pawns,
etcetera but which is still included in the Caravan float menus so there is a possibility for each of such Establishments to be attacked, traded with,
visited etcetera and most importantly for them to have their own MapGeneratorDef.

• RimWorld.CompLaunchable.ChoseWorldTarget only checks for the faction of a FactionBase, so an Establishment like a faction's tower or
  anything would not be attackable by launch pods. Additionally Establishment.Attackable could be checked for, once that exists
• RimWorld.Planet.AttackCaravanArrivalActionUtility only considers FactionBase
• RimWorld.Planet.CaravanArrivalAction_Attack also only considers FactionBase so no other MapParent would be "attackable"
• RimWorld.Planet.CaravanArrivalAction_Visit same thing, only FactionBase are "visitable"
• RimWorld.Planet.CaravanVisitUtility.FactionBaseVisitedNow and .TradeCommand only consider FactionBase, again, rendering non-faction
  bases unable to be picked for trade/visiting
• RimWorld.Planet.FactionBase_TraderTracker could be more general, allowing for non-FactionBase WorldObjects to have trade going on -
  however this may be a modder's job since it's just a bunch of copy-pasting
• RimWorld.Planet.FactionBaseAbandonUtility could also be more general, to allow abandoning things which are not a faction base
• RimWorld.Planet.TravelingTransportPods.Arrived could broaden its statements to non-FactionBase enemy Establishments
• RimWorld.Planet.WorldObjectsHolder.AddToCache and .RemoveFromCache could add for Establishments as well

Currently FactionBase contains a lot of stuff which allows for trading, however the base is also attackable, has one icon only, is referenced by many
Caravan prompts, gizmos and floatmenuoptions.

Another problem is that since the Caravan looks exclusively for FactionBase and RimWorld.Planet.AttackCaravanArrivalActionUtility
.GenerateFactionBaseMap is coded to use the MapGeneratorDefOf.FactionBaseMapGenerator which generates a rectangle, it is quite difficult to
add a new MapParent which is not a FactionBase because Caravan asks for FactionBase in many important locations but it's also quite difficult to
add a FactionBase since this implies no control over the MapGeneratorDef and will always cause traders and attack/visit options to be added.

On the caravan deployment window, the Config tab...
Minor point: The coordinates in the list don't seem useful at all, and actually a little unsightly and distracting. Previous builds didn't have that, it looked cleaner and better then.

Main point: When picking a direction it would be nice to have a little map preview right there in the window. There's plenty of room. Even if it's just the colony and the immediate surrounding tiles with the caravan icon at the user's current selection. That way the user gets a visual of their choice. In fact, such a preview could replace the radio button interface altogether.

Are mechanoids supposed to wear clothing at cold maps? I sometimes get an error because of missing graphics due to apparel. I do love the idea of a Scyther wearing a nice red toque, since it brings back fond memories of Santa from Futurama, but the error leads me to think that it could be a bug?

Even if it is, could you just remove the error, and dress them all up in red toques and parkas over Christmas? Ho ho ho and all that. Merry CHTUNK! *screams*

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 13, 2016, 04:15:10 PM
Are mechanoids supposed to wear clothing at cold maps? I sometimes get an error because of missing graphics due to apparel. I do love the idea of a Scyther wearing a nice red toque, since it brings back fond memories of Santa from Futurama, but the error leads me to think that it could be a bug?

Even if it is, could you just remove the error, and dress them all up in red toques and parkas over Christmas? Ho ho ho and all that. Merry CHTUNK! *screams*

You're reporting an error message bug - could you please post your output_log with the error message so I can try to solve it? In a thread in the Bugs forum (where all bugs should be reported). Thanks.

Quote from: Tynan on December 13, 2016, 04:18:12 PM

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 13, 2016, 04:15:10 PM
Are mechanoids supposed to wear clothing at cold maps? I sometimes get an error because of missing graphics due to apparel. I do love the idea of a Scyther wearing a nice red toque, since it brings back fond memories of Santa from Futurama, but the error leads me to think that it could be a bug?

Even if it is, could you just remove the error, and dress them all up in red toques and parkas over Christmas? Ho ho ho and all that. Merry CHTUNK! *screams*

You're reporting an error message bug - could you please post your output_log with the error message so I can try to solve it? In a thread in the Bugs forum (where all bugs should be reported). Thanks.

Didn't know if it was a bug or intended (the wearing clothes part). Submitted at: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27989.0

Is there a way of copy-pasting the debug log? As much as I love writing code (I don't really), it would make things much easier if I could do that, rather than typing out the entire error.

There should be some sort of difficulty indicator for raiding enemy bases

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 13, 2016, 04:30:06 PM
Is there a way of copy-pasting the debug log? As much as I love writing code (I don't really), it would make things much easier if I could do that, rather than typing out the entire error.

The log is recorded in the output_log file in RimWorld_Data in the RimWorld install folder; no need to type anything out!

Quote from: Ashery on December 13, 2016, 04:39:59 AM
Not really a fan of the combined beauty and room stat indicator. The display feels incredibly cluttered regardless of what information I'm looking at and I lose pretty much the entire SW section of the beauty display due to the room stats being displayed on top of it.

I second this feedback.  In pre-Alpha16 playthroughs, I kept the Room Stats display on almost all the time since it's not obtrusive and it's a good way to keep an eye on cleanliness and such, but the Beauty display is very obtrusive by contrast.  I find myself having to keep this combined option turned off all the time unless I really need to check on a room now since it's hard to see what's going on with all the beauty numbers on the ground.  I would much rather these two options be separate again.

Quote from: Tynan on December 13, 2016, 02:21:31 PM

Fix: Default outfits have hidden AllowNonDeadmansApparel set to false.

why make it hidden, though? Wouldn't it be better to allow the player to allow or disallow deadman's apparel?

I removed some low-effort "I second this" type posts as per the thread original post.

Quote from: Kastro on December 13, 2016, 05:28:50 PM
why make it hidden, though? Wouldn't it be better to allow the player to allow or disallow deadman's apparel?

The AI will make the distinction effectively. I don't want to offer this "choice" because 99% of players won't really understand what they're choosing between (e.g. how the AI integrates the deadman's status into decision-making). It's essentially a false choice and not worth the extra complexity or cognitive burden, so I'm leaving it out unless there's some specific, decisive reason to add it.

It would be very usefull to be able to prepare Packaged survival meal when you are planning long siege.

Quote from: carbon on December 13, 2016, 08:28:48 AM
^ That's part of the reason I was against mini-bases on enemy territory.

The others were:
1) Can build mini-killboxes, making offensive raids trivial (and exactly like traditional defense).
2) Events are disabled on the enemy map, so you can safely wait out a negative event at a nearby enemy base (e.g. toxic fallout). That pokes a gaping hole in the "enemy base is dangerous" narrative.
3) It just makes the enemy AI appear even dumber than it already does, given that they don't seem to care about truly egregious trespassing.

Still having walls, sandbags, mortars and sleeping spots available would enable the player to build a plausible siege camp, but long-term infrastructure and hardened defenses are effectively off limits. This is presumably supposed to be a battle, not a slumber party.

The alternative is that the AI is far more aggressive with counter attacks on their territory, always attacking within 3 to 6 hours of arrival. However,  I could easily still see a crude killbox going down in that amount of time (if turrets and traps aren't disabled).

EDIT: I would also strongly recommend turning off ancient danger room generation in foreign faction bases. In many contexts they are just going act as a de facto killbox (lure enemy into a nest of mechs / insects). It is reasonably plausible the local residents would have already cleared out whatever threats were present when they started their colony.

Maybe not have them be too agressive, but send out a few skirmishers? have them use tactics, and give them multiple different strategies to use so each attack seems different. Also like i saw someone saying before, they should fight to the last man, they are defending their home, their base. At the very least if they run away they should go to some sort of "Main base" for their faction, and if you do that maybe have it at least be like a boss battle, there is a lot you can do in that regard. I mean it could grow as people run away so it could end up being a massive battle late game, and you could possibly do something like you can't build a spaceship until you defeat all of them.  Probably a good idea for the next update though, but just a suggestion as it would help build on a lot of things

Quote from: skice on December 13, 2016, 05:59:54 PM
... be able to prepare Packaged survival meal...

Pemmican should have plenty of shelf life and is arguably better in a nutrition per kg sense.

----

Would be nice if one could designate certain food-like items to not be eaten by the caravan. Like beer for instance. Boy, do caravans love their beer (if they don't have food left). They'll drink well beyond the downed point.

Speaking of beer, is Cirrohsis of the liver supposed to set in several days after the last beer was had? I had a pawn transitioning down from massive tolerance to large tolerance who was afflicted by it.

----
EDIT:
Also, the new friendly A.I. event really trivializes the end game now.
Tame a muffalo, make some pemmican, throw them together and you've got a one way ticket to space.
The event should direct you to an uninhabited island, so at least you need mid-game tech to get there.

If you're finding it that easy to make it to the AI ship, you've figured out something I haven't (or maybe you just got an easy map?). It's going to take me at least 4 years of journeying at this rate.

Quote from: carbon on December 13, 2016, 07:34:09 PM

Quote from: skice on December 13, 2016, 05:59:54 PM
... be able to prepare Packaged survival meal...

Pemmican should have plenty of shelf life and is arguably better in a nutrition per kg sense.

----

Would be nice if one could designate certain food-like items to not be eaten by the caravan. Like beer for instance. Boy, do caravans love their beer (if they don't have food left). They'll drink well beyond the downed point.

Speaking of beer, is Cirrohsis of the liver supposed to set in several days after the last beer was had? I had a pawn transitioning down from massive tolerance to large tolerance who was afflicted by it.

----
EDIT:
Also, the new friendly A.I. event really trivializes the end game now.
Tame a muffalo, make some pemmican, throw them together and you've got a one way ticket to space.
The event should direct you to an uninhabited island, so at least you need mid-game tech to get there.

I was 100% certain that the event mentioned was a trap. I got it on day 3, and I've been preparing an attack there for ages now :P

It may have helped that I was on a 30% generated world. It was also mostly arid shrubland between me and the target. But other than that, there's nothing* special about what I did. Literally everyone of my 3 pawns had some alcohol-related permanent illness and were breaking down repeatedly, but I made it just fine. Mental and physical illness doesn't seem to matter much in caravan progress.

There may also be some trickery to that event in certain cases, but for me it was "GG --> roll credits".



*Strictly speaking, I was playing around with food and beer in dev mode prior to the event popping up. While I wasn't actually playing normally, I didn't do much that made the journey itself easier on the whole. I could have spent the first 5 - 10 days playing normally instead and had just as much food, and a muffalo without all of the alcohol-related side-effects.

• "Awful bedroom" - this is great, it's a lasting debuff that will keep players from stuffing colonists into tiny 2x1 bedrooms
• "Wearing dead person's clothes" debuff - I feel like this falls in the "too much realism" category. It's bad enough that clothes get ripped to shreds during raids, but now the clothes have an everlasting "eww this was touched by a dead person" debuff? It's too much
• When I capture a fallen enemy now, there's a note in the mouseOver: "Presumed guilty (expires in X hours)." What is that???

I got a map with no ancient shrine. Is that a bug? I can provide a save/world gen params if it is.

Quote from: Zhentar on December 13, 2016, 09:11:10 PM
I got a map with no ancient shrine. Is that a bug? I can provide a save/world gen params if it is.

Ancient shrine? Do you mean ancient evil, or is the shrine a new thing? If it's the old thing then it's just bad luck, and it shouldn't really affect your game much.

Quote from: Zhentar on December 13, 2016, 08:13:25 PM
If you're finding it that easy to make it to the AI ship, you've figured out something I haven't (or maybe you just got an easy map?). It's going to take me at least 4 years of journeying at this rate.

I think it just automatically puts the AI ship at the farthest boundary of the known area. If you just generated 30% of the area, you can reach it in about 2 seasons. If you generated the whole world... might take longer.

I would suggest the AI ship requires a laundry list of resources to repair itself to spaceworthiness again, so players can't just roadtrip to it immediately.

I've been messing around with the world modifiers, and I think the 2nd-coldest setting on the World Temperature is off. While 1 step below Normal Temp still generates worlds with quite a few growing seasons, if I set it to 2nd-coldest I get NO growing seasons on 95% of the world and an average temp of 24F around the equator. While it doesn't have the giant ice sheets the Coldest worlds do, on the Coldest worlds the average temp at the equator is 17F, just a few degrees lower than 2nd-coldest. That seems off when the average equator temp of 1-step-colder-than-normal is a balmy 60F, and its opposite, the 2nd-hottest temp, still has growing seasons on a good 50% of its surface. Tynan, could you please double-check the temp stuff and see if you could get the 2nd-coldest average equator temp around 40F instead of 20F?

UPDATE: Yes, it seems like Cold worlds become inhospitable faster than Hot worlds. I still had Growing Seasons on 20-50% of the land on the Hottest planets, while even 2nd-Coldest planets only had Growing Seasons on 5-10% of the land. The Coldest planets had none (which begs the question of how they still have boreal forests).

I killed some guys and stole their clothes, as usual. There's a new debuff for wearing clothes taken from dead people, Dead Man's Jacket, -3 mood.

Personally I like it, and I'm excited to see if humanskin clothes have a similar debuff, but will it ever wear off?

Edit: My lovely Psychopath is also getting this debuff, which seems a bit inappropriate.

• "Create caravan" needs some love. I can see my colonists and all my stuff, but when I click on any of it, nothing happens. There should be some help text walking you through how to put together a caravan, and why you would do it. Even some error text like "you need to tame some animals first" would at least lead the player in the right direction
• I would give your home base a different icon, or put your colony name under it or something. When you click "World" and the world pops up and a little blue house is there ... it looks really barren. It's not obvious that you need to click on the blue house to create a caravan, or even that the blue house represents you

Firstly I'd like to say I really like that I can form a new caravan and travel the world.

Haven't done it yet and it wasn't at first clear to me that I need animals to do it.

Plus, what is the point of forming caravans?

Will I be able to go back to my home base after sending people out?

Don`t know if it designed behaviour, but i`ve sent a two pawns caravan with a heavy load of beer and smokeleaf joints. Both pawns (not teetootalers) gone bad with usage of the cargo and caravan MIA at last.

UPD: Caravan had enough food.
And another point - why can i use other animals to carry caravan stuff? Have some elephants (the have great cargo capacity stat in info window btw), but only muffalu add cargo space.

Maybe I haven't played far enough in but it doesn't seem like the game has any impetus for using caravans.
It always seemed much safer simply not to use them

What's the use of them?
Are there special items scattered around the map that you can only find using caravans? Stuff that's necessary for the spaceship? something else?

Seems like there should be a button in assigning outfits to not wear dead people's clothing, given that it provides a mood debuff. It's a little tedious to determine which clothes are from dead people and restrict them.

they have a capital D behind the Name for "downed" i guess.

i did started a few different worlds and traveled to some locations and the amount of plasteel buildings seems to be to much.
currently i get around 20-30% plasteel builings.
I think you can get plasteel to easy/fast this way in early game
As a suggestion i put a limiter on the amount of plasteel buildings that can spawn on one map.
for example not more 3 plasteel buildings

Quote from: Grishnerf on December 14, 2016, 04:03:14 AM
they have a capital D behind the Name for "downed" i guess.

It's possible to tell by clicking on the item, but as far as I know you cannot set a policy for all your colonists to not by default wear any dead person's apparel. Short of vetting all the gear in your storage and your colonists once in a while, or micromanaging the hauling of gear, it's hard to avoid this.

Quote from: terheyden on December 13, 2016, 09:04:41 PM

• When I capture a fallen enemy now, there's a note in the mouseOver: "Presumed guilty (expires in X hours)." What is that???

You can execute them for -2 mood penalty, instead of -6(?).

Tynan, this doesn't really affect the gameplay. I can avoid 'prisoner executed' penalty by leaving downed raiders to bleed out. I used execute prisoner job two times - first time to see how it works, second time in A16 to see how this guilty thing works.[/list]

so i played the a16 version a bit and have some mixed feeling about it. so far i just build up my base, have not gone into the caravan feature to much. (looked with dev mode shotly into it yesterday tho and saw some on spartys streams.) playing on the extreme cassandra difficulty so far, so some things might be different in other storytellers. (played first half on the first devlopment build and yesterday with the updated version)

(wall of text incoming ^^)

world map/start:

for the world map thge main thing i was and still am a bit confused about is why hexgones? the bulk of the game are squares. you build your stuff in a square grid. so why hexagones? this makes no sense to me, since if i would enter a biome/tile, from which side does my pawns come in, if its a hexagone on the world, but zoomed in its square? i must admit in terms of design it looks good, but i find it a bit confusing with the rest of the game.

the map itself looks good, some highlighting on the square you select is probably needed. there as already pointed out somewhere in this thread.

for the difference between mountains, small and large hills i must say, that they look nice, but if i want a specific biome they currently make i hard to find your thing. you basicly have click + look at the description to get the terrain, since the graphical differences are very settle. for a nice looking map, this might be cool. but i wish there was some overlay options, like in the world maps before. were you could switch/show biomes/height etc.

so for my biome i thought, maybe not a hard one, but with some snow. so i have some freezing temperatures a time of the year. i ended up landing in a temperate forest biome, with like -10 to 20 degress temperature range. this usally was pretty easy to survive, since you could grow and hunt.

for the people i rolled a bit, to not get abrasive/ugly/volatile/etc. people, since i wanted to test the building stuff mostly and worry to much about mood early. it's usally a bit of an issue for a new alpha, since you don't know how to play around the new modifiers, but with decent starting colonists usally okay.

so starting out, building into a moountain. all things seem okayish. got some growing going. finaly build soem small rooms (2x2) for my people. wanderer, first raids etc. things started to get weird after the first real raid, meaning when people got hurt.

medical stuff:

so i fought off some raiders, someone got beaten up/shot at and took some damage. this is in general not a big deal, get healed up fast, get some work done, fit at the next raid. (i thought) my patient stayed in bed, but literaly healed nothing in terms of health. when the next raid hit he still was not full helth. i thought hm maybe my doctors are super bad, i checked and they were at 5. for an early game start this seemed okay and hospital beds seem to be far away in terms of research at this point. so this meant basicly getting hurt in raids can send you in a bad injury/pain spiral. if your good doctor gets hurt/dies your done. in my colony it lead to much more food problems, since no work could get done with bed rest and people healing super slow. (not sure if that got tweaked or my colony is to far along at this point, but had less problems now with it, got hopsital bed too. so might be that)

i understand the idea behind the doctoring and this makes a good doctor have some impact. but for early game this mechanic is pretty bad. when i read/heard about the medic change in the new alpha i expected the infection system and the bedrest problem to get a look at (how illnes workes and the they randomly get up to do stuff, even if i tell them to bed rest. since i feel like there was most of the problems.) so i was a bit of disappointed, since the old doctoring problems still exist and are super bad. meaning pawns are hut, but still do joy, put on clothes. get up for no reason. i hoped so a fix there. i usally use briths mod for patient sanity this so its not as bad. but seeing this in vanilla is a big problem.

on the note of illness/infection in hindsight i haven't had a infection in a body part. not sure if that is removed, but had some people bleeding badly in some fights. had one pawn die to plague, even with all time micromanagemnt bedrest and a doctor treating asap. had no medicine and no hospital bed at this point.

i still had the problem that a pawns arm/leg got cut off and bleeds badly and doctors treat all minor wounds first then the cut of body put. (this was with the latest build) i remember hearing from someone that this should have been fixed, could be a rumor.

other thing i installed a bionic leg (or tried, save scummed here a bit to test). my doctor had 92% surgery chance. my room had smoothed floor and hospital beds and there were no filth spots insice (have not checked the cleanliness, assume one ish [edit. just checked in game, its clean/zero]). but it took my doctor 4 attemps to install the leg. i'm not 100% sure if there were changes made to this part, but 4 tries seems a bit high (m ight be just bad luck tho)

work priorities:

i was super surprised when i saw repairs removed. i can understand, that with potentially adding more skills in the future there might be some going together to not flood the work tab. but repairing stuff after raids is quite important and this could relieve some work amoutn from your contructors in the past, by letting other people help. so i dont like that. since in most cases you will have stuff to build in your base early/late game. and forbidding/deleting very blueprint/project seems to add more unneccessary micro.

the other thing i dislike is the decontruct. in most cases you want the decontruct first to build new stuff there or need the ressouces. so having it at first was kinda needed in my opinion. i honestly dont understand why this priotiy got moved. and yes you could have the roof problem. but this will happen one time and then you get it, that the roof needs to be done first. plus i think/assume (can't remeber right now) you added the roofing job priotiy at first two. so this problem would be gone either way. which was usally the reason for deconstruting not at first.

prisoners:

so i got a bit lucky my run and got a drop pod spacer quite early. at the time i had the 2x2 rooms. so i thought put a small bed in, smooth the floor. should be a recruit in no time. i never got the prisoner... i feed him, my warden did his job. the prisoner dont had bad traits, like volatile to make him break easily. so what happend was i tried to heal the prisoner up, this took forever. he was grumpy for the pain, the room was to small, he had no table etc. so he broke after some time. with the cathrsis buff later his mood was okay. after it ended he broke again and the cycle started again. after some time i build a bigger room, with light, table, heater and all (my colonists were still living worse then the prisoners at this point). so i put him in there. got a 2nd prisoner. the cycle stoped for a bit. but i had super low chances <1% (he had 60ish difficulty, my warden had 5 or a bit more social at this point, which i think is okay early on). i didn't took prisoners for a while till i had like 7 colonists or so and only took wanderers/refugee events to stock up people. i'm not sure if it's intended, but i feel like taking a good chance prisoner early and putting him in an okay room should make it possible to recruit with decent chance. at this point i build a big prison room and have a 9 and 14 warden and this problem is gone. but you don't have that early on. together with doctoring this version i feel like high social is a must have skill to progress at a decent rate.

bed room debuffs/base design:

so yeah the small/cramped bed room debuff. i think this is one of the resons my prisoners broke so much early on. my colonists doing fine, even with me still building the sleeping caskets. i personaly dont like them as a concept overall for the game. let my explain a bit. if i build the bigger bedrooms, there is not much stuff in the vanilla game to put in there. maybe one statue/plant pot for mood and a chair? but i feel this looks stupid. there is not much more to put in. a table you dont want, since random people come in to eat and the pawn get disturbed sleep. so i end up with a big room with some strange things inside. yes i can use mods and put in more fitting furniture, but i dont think that should be the point. the vanilla game should be balanced/designed around itself in the first place. so i dont get this reason for having bigger rooms.

the other thing is that it forces a specific base design. if you dont want the debuff you have to build at least X by X rooms. so every base looks the same in terms of sleeping areas at some point. yes you can build other shaped rooms, but since most stuff is square the majority will end up having square rooms too. i feel this hurts the game variety. let me explain this a bit on infestations and mountain bases, since it's a bit clearer on that. with the introduction of the infestation event my base looks like the others. before the infestation event i first build a base with corridors when i stated out in the game. later i thought maybe i could skip them and use only work rooms and i loved the base design. it had no benefit/disadvantge over the other one, but i liked it. my base looked different from that of anybody else. i loved the 2x2 bed rooms with single beds and a statue in them. not for the benefit, but the design was cool. if i took on a mining colony in the north i build sleeping caskets for my workers 8rooms that only fit the bed), since it fit the theme of the colony in the late game. less comfor = small rooms. but it ran the same as the other ones, no benefit/disadvantage. so with the infestations suddenly this design was bad. because if a spawn happens. you dont have enough room to move back. you might have to deconstruct walls to make room to move/free bugs. this would leave my base in ruins and people got hurt due to smaller rooms. so if you dont wanted to have all this draw backs you needed some kind of corridors now. i tried my old desing a few times and the amount of micro/stress you had to go through just to have your own base desing was unreal compred to just making a corridor. so to have room to move around/have enough shooting power, you usally want bigger hallways (around 3 large). this neccesety ends up making your base look a specific way. you want to enclose most rooms in a hallway to be able to aproach rooms from different angles if the bugs move to a bad spot. so in the end my mountain base looks about the same a the one from other people. hallways, bit bigger rooms for work/storage etc. not because i like it, but because not building this way makes the game so much unfun, that it's unreal.

now back to the small room debuff. later on you would want to have the room benefit buff (the low expectations buff goes away, mood managment gets a bit harder etc.). so meaning you would want roomsize x by y at least. put in items z for the mood/beauty. this means not only does my corridors look like other people, now my bed rooms do too? and thats not because i as a player choose to do so, but because the game mechanic forces me to. i understand that some mechanic lead to certain optimal base designs adaptions. but should these not have clear benefits and drawbacks? currently you can have different killboxes/defenses. some work better/worse against other enemies. but you have a choice. i always liked that about the game. but i feel like adding the bedrrom debuff is a bad thing.

why do you have a debuff for smaller rooms? is every colonists claustrophobic? do they spent their whole day in the bedroom? if they spent ther day "outside" mainly, why does the room size even matter? why do you force the player to have bigger rooms? i dont get this decision, sorry. i understand you don't want players to build sleeping caskets, but why? does it make the game super easy/hard? i dont think so? do larger bedrooms make the game harder/easier? as far as i know it does not, so i dont have a clue why this change was/is made.

dead mans cloth:

uhm yeah. if you add the debuff, can we get an option to let our people not wear this stuff? that debuff is a bit less then naked, but there are some clothes, that the colonists do not need to counter the nakes debuff. and currently you would have to turn off all the clothes of the type. button would be nice.

in general i like the attempt to make producing clothes a bit more of an must. but i dont like this route. since you fight for your life,  have a lot of other more severe problems. you care that you wear a dead persons clothes, but just killed 10 people in cold blood? how does that not matter (i know there was a debuff for killed someone, not sure if is still their, but this was temprary)? i'm not sure if the dead mans cloth goes away, but i assume not. so killing a bunch of people you forget, but the fact that you wear the cloth bothers you forever? so yeah. the other thing is i expected with this update to add the recycle cloth function/recipe/workbench. since the dead man's cloth change forces you to make clothes, but on harder biomes you will not have much animals to hunt and growing cotton will not be a priority. so you have the debuff for forever in this biomes.

forgot to mention, maybe another route would have been to just give player made clothes some more boni/benefits. like infusion mod or just lower the raids cloth if drops in general (so you would only get tattered apparel). just a thought.

deterioration/roofs:

the deterioration makes sense, but i feel its a bit overkill at first. from what i saw the rates seemed fine. they ai core does no deteriorate, but mechanoid corpses do?

workbench penalities:

not sure about this change. since power is usally a struggle in vanilla. you don't end up heating all rooms. you get the penality even if its roofed and 20 degress outside? (i dont think there is a way to check these values so not sure on this could be wrong). i'm pretty sure a stonecutters table would be okay outside in a roofed area. and if the pawn has good clothing this should not be an issue. since the most hinderence would be his clothes, but he does not change them in general if he works outside or inside. the other thing is we already have temperature penalities for inside/outside, they are hypthermia and heatstrokes. so why would there be a need for others?

the other thing, why not just make the penalites on workbenches for electic ones. i dont think a mechanic process would have penalities.

caravans/new colonies:

as i said have not yet played with them much. the main fear i have, since usally 15+ people colony would couse lagg, depending on the size of the colony/jobs this would vary. but 20 peeps would slow you down a lot. with the world map running on the side and multiple colonies at the same time, i'm not sure if the lag will not stop my colonization attemps in very early tracks. not yet at this point, so just a guess. hope there are a lot of performance improvements made to avoid this. but i love the idea and stoked to see what happen, when my people are at this point.

raids:

i just tried this with dev command. and got my 5 people in to try and see what loot there was. but for a later colony this seemed hardly worthwhile. from what i saw the raiders had the same weapons like my people and the storage only had some meals and maybe medicine. which the last one would be worth it, but for the effort/time investment i'm not even sure here. i'm burning to see what mods can do to that feature. it seems quite interesting. maybe i just had a small ooutpost in my test. so still unsure about that.

weapons variety:

i like the less charge rifles change. since i find myself using the other weapons like lmg/assult rifles a bit more. good change and seems to work nice so far. got only one charge rifle so far after quite a while into the game. really love this change.

desertification:

i assume there are some changes hidden here. since my map is not as barren as they used to. maybe just luck, not sure. from the event list in dev mode there seem's to be no grow event. so probably just the plant spread/ growtime. but i like it very much.

animals:

with the colonies/caravans these seem to gone up in value, whiuch i like overall. the problem is that the alpha version does not fix the problem which came with animal figting in the past. yes you can have the foloow check markes, which i good. but the main problem was/is the slow reation time of animals, the runing in front. which leads them getting shot by friendly fire lots of time. the other problem is that the zones are still bugged, a problem the mod itself had at first. but i assume this gets fixed along the way.

research tree:

love the tree. as someone said, not sure how well it works with mods. but i felt the old one was a mess and some sort of overview and/or search function was needed there. maybe some zoom out/in for mods and if more research gets in the game is needed, but it looks good.

overall:

overall i have a bit of mixed feeling about the alpha, there is a bunch of stuff i love (mostly a ai feature, research tab, animal tab). i'm a bit disappointed that some big issues are not getting a fixed (patients getting up, no eating asign tab, animals response etc.). for the main feature of settling/raiding it seems okay, was not something i particular wished for in the first place. but since most people seemd to wanted that, it made it and i must admit it seems like a big change up in terms a late game. so looking forward to testing this out in depth a bit more.

so yeah, love the game great work as always. sorry if some stuff sounds a bit to negative. really love your game, looking forward to updating my mods in the later days. thanks for making this early release testing avaiable to us. hope this helps a bit, got a bit rambly sometime,sry XD

thx for the great work ;)

I love the new map. Note when I first saw it I instinctively tried to scroll it by right clicking and dragging. After that didn't work I came to the conclusion the map was not scrollable, and didn't figure out I was wrong until I noticed the bottom of the map was warm, and then tried other ways to scroll.

I would suggest implementing drag scroll. It just seems natural on a globe like that, probably learned behavior from other games with a globe.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but haven't the raiders changed? and how do you feel about it?

Edit: in the mean time my two cents on early game: great

You can build a decent base with various bonuses in less than a year with the new room stats.
You have to warm your kitchen/workshops, which is common sense
Bubbles are fun and informative
I had visitors at day 4 having go juice (8x) for sale
The debuff for apparel "worn by a corpse" makes sense, and is an incentive to tailor your own stuff

Im sad we cant make more bases
I wanted to make a whole empire....
A farming base,Mining base,Base where only live artists etc

I'm just happy that I get to administer drugs to prisoners\patients. Not just for the hilarious "You're hooked on Luciferium" prank, but also for the less psychopathic use, of using them as painkillers.
I do wish that the fuel had more uses though. Such as being able to use it instead of wood in the generator. It seems like something that should be possible.

As for the world map, it feels kinda lackluster at the moment. Probably because my base is faaaaar away from anyone else. The closest outpost is 9 days from me, and it's hostile. Even with the drop-pods, it seems rather pointless to bother with it. Also, leaving your base open to attacks, or letting all the animals starve seem like a silly thing to do, particularly when the rewards are very small for leaving.
Hell, the tribal base near me only had like 300 pemmican and some steel. Guarded by 10+ tribals. It cost me more than that just to get to the place.

Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone. It is helping.

It took me a long while to figure out how to form a caravan. I expected that by right-clicking a spot on the map, I will have the option to "send a caravan here" and then get the options to form it.

Maybe you could add something like this?

about beauty change on various items, i assume this was done so you would be motivated to have proper warehouses instead making stockpiles all over you base in corridors and work rooms, one small oversight with this i think items put into equipment rack should lose this negative beauty modifier (since they sort of put away), currently it makes no difference.

It looks like a (simple) research bench placed outside has both a workspeed modifier and research speed modifier. That's seems like it could be an oversight / bug. At the very least, it's confusing.

It would be nice if you could set your outfits to not include dead persons clothing.

I like the dead mans clothing penalty. I used to not bother with tailoring until mid-late game. That said I personally think there should be a much stronger market value penalty for them. For clothing that makes people want to hide in their room, it sells for pretty top dollar.

Quote from: Dukkha on December 14, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
It would be nice if you could set your outfits to not include dead persons clothing.

I like the dead mans clothing penalty. I used to not bother with tailoring until mid-late game. That said I personally think there should be a much stronger market value penalty for them. For clothing that makes people want to hide in their room, it sells for pretty top dollar.

The penalty has been changed from 50% off to 90% off.

Quote from: Tynan on December 14, 2016, 11:35:26 AM

Quote from: Dukkha on December 14, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
It would be nice if you could set your outfits to not include dead persons clothing.

I like the dead mans clothing penalty. I used to not bother with tailoring until mid-late game. That said I personally think there should be a much stronger market value penalty for them. For clothing that makes people want to hide in their room, it sells for pretty top dollar.

The penalty has been changed from 50% off to 90% off.

What penalty is this? I don't think I've never seen it in many, many hours and dead raiders of play.

As of A16, the clothes of dead people now have a selling price penalty as well as a mood de-buff for anyone who picks them up and wears them.

(Or so I gather, haven't actually gotten to the point of testing it in-game)

Another day, another update, to 0.16.1387. This one fixes a lot more bugs and addresses some of the design concerns.

Unedited changelog:

Improved caravan forming training with a "send caravan" button which is visible only if untrained, and activates the training.
Fix: Exiting to main menu in permadeath mode causes errors
Fix 2852: Enemy flee message when killing one enemy (now lords don't transition states in the same action as they remove themselves.)
Fix 2853: Can't 'Clear All' when customising a bill at a crafting spot/table
Fix 2856: Ship Parts can be deconstructed
Fix: Spacers 'fleeing' after each casualty
Fix: Rec Room Mood Buff Stacking
Fix: Errors thrown on Architect Items for Value, Beauty, Comfort
It's now impossible to ally with a faction you're attacking.
Fix: NullReferenceException reinstalling gun turret
Revert: Ancient shrines no longer spawn on maps with faction bases.
Fix: Downed attackers from failed raids can eventually get back up by self-healing - but they just wander around. Now they flee the map.
Ancient shrines no longer spawn on maps with faction bases.
Fix: Inspect pane text slightly cut off.
Added SymbolResolver_AncientTemple to public source files.
Generate more faction bases.
Instead of randomly choosing a journey offer distance between 200 and 400 tiles, we now maximize journey offer traversal distance, up to 800 tiles maximum.
Abandoned structure walls can no longer use plasteel as their stuff.
It's now possible to jump to world targets by right clicking on the colonist bar.
Fix: Mechanoids heal.
Fix: When loading transport pods colonists sometimes load 1 pod overfull and leave others empty.
Fix: Pawns bring too many resources to frames

Did you change how the info window is closed? It seems more persistent now, and more annoying.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 14, 2016, 01:34:04 PM
Did you change how the info window is closed? It seems more persistent now, and more annoying.

What "info window"? How can a window "seem more persistent" exactly? I'm so confused.

Was it intended that we can no longer deconstruct siege-bases? If so, could you provide us with some way of destroying them that doesn't include 20 minutes worth of bombardment with mortars?

The tab when you select a pawn. The tabs at the bottom left of the screen health, skills, social, etc. It seems like before it closed doing some things like selecting a non pawn thing but now it persists until you directly close it with the X.

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 14, 2016, 01:43:44 PM
Was it intended that we can no longer deconstruct siege-bases? If so, could you provide us with some way of destroying them that doesn't include 20 minutes worth of bombardment with mortars?

I dont think its intended, but if you turn on dev mode and use god mode, then you can deconstruct it.

Quote from: Tynan on December 14, 2016, 01:30:56 PM
Generate more faction bases.

Does this mean generation only upon map creation, or do faction bases generate/regenerate over time as well? Whether a fixed number or increasing number of faction bases, eventually the player is going to run out if they're the raider type. It'd be really nice if this is generating additional faction bases over time.

More about raiding other faction bases: Upon the first time getting the "you have 24 hrs to leave" after the faction base pawns flee / get killed, a message saying to use form caravan would be nice.

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 14, 2016, 01:43:44 PM
Was it intended that we can no longer deconstruct siege-bases? If so, could you provide us with some way of destroying them that doesn't include 20 minutes worth of bombardment with mortars?

This sounds like a bug. I'll have to look at it.

Tynan, could you clarify the intended behavior of animals eating random ingestibles (and how you want players to respond to it)? You posted in the bug thread for it "Keep your drugs behind doors!" but animals will go through non-forbidden doors and leave their allowed areas to eat drugs.

Quote from: Zhentar on December 14, 2016, 02:02:21 PM
Tynan, could you clarify the intended behavior of animals eating random ingestibles (and how you want players to respond to it)? You posted in the bug thread for it "Keep your drugs behind doors!" but animals will go through non-forbidden doors and leave their allowed areas to eat drugs.

Yeah my muffalo ate luciferium D:

They just eat it what do I do?

Quote from: CodeRen on December 14, 2016, 02:10:27 PM

Quote from: Zhentar on December 14, 2016, 02:02:21 PM
Tynan, could you clarify the intended behavior of animals eating random ingestibles (and how you want players to respond to it)? You posted in the bug thread for it "Keep your drugs behind doors!" but animals will go through non-forbidden doors and leave their allowed areas to eat drugs.

Yeah my muffalo ate luciferium D:

They just eat it what do I do?

I'm going to create an invincible army of drugged out chickens on luciferium and go juice. It's going to be biblical.

Re: persistent info window:

- select a colonist, then open the "health" pane, for example
- now click away or hit escape
- select another colonist

- in A15, it shows basic info about the second colonist
- in A16, now, the "health" pane is shown again

I agree, it is really annoying.

A bit of feedback about the changes to plague from A15 to A16.

Basically, by the time you discover plague, it's already quite severe (greater than 0.400) and colonists haven't had any medical treatment to help them recover. I found that in this scenario, immunity lags behind quite a bit even with prompt tending.

Since it is graphical gui view, can we get the research be goal oriented queued? i.e. click at the end of a chain, and it'll try to research everything before that in sequence?

Quote from: terheyden on December 14, 2016, 06:44:33 PM
Re: persistent info window:

- select a colonist, then open the "health" pane, for example
- now click away or hit escape
- select another colonist

- in A15, it shows basic info about the second colonist
- in A16, now, the "health" pane is shown again

I agree, it is really annoying.

You described it correctly. I noticed something wrong but couldnt tell what exactly was.

The "Repair tab is now Construction" thing is going to be a major pain for me if it doesn't get reverted. 
Having priority 1 repairers to gradually reinforce the outer doors was a key part of staying alive if you don't use turrets / killboxes.

The simplification is comparable to if Firefighting was made low priority Construction. Might as well not be an automated job priority at all.

With that gone and the major upgrade to wound downtime, this alpha is going to be micromanagement hell for anyone who doesn't killbox.
---
Or so I foresee. I can't actually get into the mid-game with the daily version upgrading.

Repairing is still higher priority within the Construction job though.

Quote from: carbon on December 14, 2016, 09:28:59 PM
The "Repair tab is now Construction" thing is going to be a major pain for me if it doesn't get reverted. 
Having priority 1 repairers to gradually reinforce the outer doors was a key part of staying alive if you don't use turrets / killboxes.

The simplification is comparable to if Firefighting was made low priority Construction. Might as well not be an automated job priority at all.

With that gone and the major upgrade to wound downtime, this alpha is going to be micromanagement hell for anyone who doesn't killbox.
---
Or so I foresee. I can't actually get into the mid-game with the daily version upgrading.

Not only that. I usually have everyone who is a bit skilled in construction with 1 in repair, even if they arent assigned to construction, so when I get attacked, everything gets up again ASAP, instead of giving all those repairing jobs to just my always busy dedicated builders. This is because repairing is critical, there are a lot of things to repair after a raid and also because the skill doesnt affect the result, not like building things from nothing.

However this last phrase I said might be the whole reason. I mean, its not fair that your guys who have no idea of building can repair things as good as a level 20 builder. At least not without costing something, like the micromanagement pain... But at same time leaves you very vulnerable as you said, without using turrets or having more than 1-2 dedicated guys.

Quote from: MarvinKosh on December 14, 2016, 09:36:48 PM
Repairing is still higher priority within the Construction job though.

*Runs quick testing*

Hmm... it seems you're right. I must have just been too manpower-starved in my earlier assessment. (curse you, early-game)

That's still not ideal though. The pawns who handled the quick repair work were rarely the same ones who handled the routine construction.

Quality construction is a job for a high value pawn.
Repair work is the stuff any pawn not currently fighting gets tasked with.

When attacking an enemy base, they should send a pawn to 'investigate' straight away.

Obviously he won't return with his finding because the player will kill or down him. After about half a day in game the enemy colony should go on full alert and not be passive until attacked.
That said, they should not leave their home area until too many casualties have been taken.

Sounds daft they would come out of a the base en masse to attack, and exploitable.

Discussing with people in a Rimworld Discord channel #a16-discussion channel we came to the conclusion that the current way the Research tree is setup makes it extremely troublesome for mods that add their own research to play nice with both the Core mod and other mods.

Our proposed solution for this perceived problem is to make each mod add their own research either up or down from the Core research. It would only have to take up as much space as it needs in order to work well.

Other feedback
I really miss the Repair priority in the Work tab. Made it annoying to MAKE my colonist build Power Cables instead of repairing after a incident. Worst change so far. And speaking of priorities; Let's put down zones where pawns PRIOTIZE certain tasks like hauling so things like crops do not lie outside for long after they are harvested. Pawns feel bloody stupid without such a feature.

As cool as the ability to travel now i do not see any reason to do it even in your first or second year. At the rate we get pawns there is no real need to branch out. Sure we got the Friendly AI event but nothing else in the nearby area seem to happen that warrants you taking your colonists out on a trip. If we could exterminate pirates or a tribe forever then i would put a effort towards it.

Starting out with Stonecutting is possibly the best thing now :D.

The Fueled Generator could use some love too. Allow it to use other things as fuel. Heck, make a variant that allow us to make biodiesel out of crops like corn and that Drop pod fuel.

Cassandra Classic on Rough feel kinda overzealous to screw over my colony. 2nd year in and bad thing after bad thing happened. (From Alpha 15) Also the breaking down events are damn annoying mid to end game.

And from a modding standpoint again; Let's be able to act on events in the game. Could be done like in the Minecraft modding API Forge where you can place annotations on static functions which get called internally from the API whenever the appropiate event is caused. E.g map loaded\saved, map unloaded, game quitting

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/547140/Rimworld-ResearchSolution.png)

So far I'm liking what I see.  Caravans are interesting and can be rewarding, but there's definitely room for growth here.  Any chance we will see a vehicle just for caravan's to make the journey a bit faster?  Would be totally shiny if we could get something like the Mule from Serenity as a late game tech.

Notes on minor tweaks in A16 I like:

• Colonists wandering about in a psychotic daze no longer drop their gear, but they stay in a dazed state longer. A bit less dangerous, but no need to follow their every move to haul their discarded clothing either.
• Escape pod survivors will now join your colony if you rescue them. No more need to capture & recruit them.

Quote from: terheyden on December 14, 2016, 06:44:33 PM
Re: persistent info window:

- select a colonist, then open the "health" pane, for example
- now click away or hit escape
- select another colonist

- in A15, it shows basic info about the second colonist
- in A16, now, the "health" pane is shown again

I agree, it is really annoying.

It's the feature I liked BEST about A16 hands down.

First of all, if you click "character" and go through your colonists it means you want to see their stats and situations, so it handily keeps it open for you instead of you having to click colonist, open char, click another colonist, open char, etc.

And happily you don't HAVE to have it open for you. Simply click something other than "character"! Voila!

Please please please don't change it, it's hella useful

Fire weapons seem too OP in this update. I just got into a firefight with some pirates carrying molotov cocktails. Here's how it turned out:

• Colonist gets winged by molotov cocktail, starts burning.
• Colonist starts running out of cover towards his attackers, making it nearly impossible for others to put him out.
• The fire on him increases as he's running around through snow. (Apparently they've forgotten how to stop, drop, and roll.)
• Colonist on fire eventually gets KOed by machine gunners. Fire keeps growing.
• Pirates attempt to kidnap him. Fire immediately extinguishes once they pick him up.

The fire on a colonist should decrease while they're running around, else catching on any amount of fire is a near-guaranteed KO.

is it normal that trade Caravans will gather up at a crashed poison ship parts?
i can easily abuse them as meatshields.

the crashed ship is nowhere near my base, on the border off the map. and trade Caravans will idle there.

I hope we could find enemy outpost with the same amount of enemies we get when playing cassandra extreme... (NOT the 1100 tribals I once faced though >_<). So far i haven't read of anyone raiding an enemy outpost nowhere near that size.
Does the size of the enemy outpost scale up the same as raids? Or is it a fixed value of possible enemies?

EDIT: Are you being afraid that the game could become too complex that eventually would detract new players?. The reason of my question is that you decided to merge construction and repairing, even though we need even more detailed work priorities, yet you try to condense it.
If you think it would be too daunting to have an even longer list of work priorities, you can try to have yet another mode for the work tab or even 2 more! (now there is the easy one with ticks on it and the numbered one). One exactly like fluffy's worktab and even another one, that should be buried in the configuration menu that looks like the dwarf fortress one (for managers who are obsessed with efficiency that doesn't mind more numbers).
It doesn't need to be in this alpha nor in the next one, but preferably before beta.

Mike (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27929.msg284243#msg284243), what you described sounds exactly like previous alphas.

That's precisely why inferno cannons have long been the stuff of nightmares.

Quote from: Lightzy on December 15, 2016, 04:43:32 AM

Quote from: terheyden on December 14, 2016, 06:44:33 PM
Re: persistent info window:

- select a colonist, then open the "health" pane, for example
- now click away or hit escape
- select another colonist

- in A15, it shows basic info about the second colonist
- in A16, now, the "health" pane is shown again

I agree, it is really annoying.

It's the feature I liked BEST about A16 hands down.

First of all, if you click "character" and go through your colonists it means you want to see their stats and situations, so it handily keeps it open for you instead of you having to click colonist, open char, click another colonist, open char, etc.

And happily you don't HAVE to have it open for you. Simply click something other than "character"! Voila!

Please please please don't change it, it's hella useful

I understand you and sometimes I fond annoying to have to bring back the info tab every time, but for me is even more annoying having to close it every time.

I think that the UI should be redone and make a permanent bottom left window with the size between the normal info window and info window+opened tab, so that it always shows the info instead of opening it every time.

Note, that in A15 (which I just double tested), if you wanted to compare the Health or Character tabs of different colonists you could do so easily by hitting the "<" and ">" buttons of your keyboard to scroll between all of your colonists. You also had the option of using the colonist bar icons at the top of the screen to switch between two colonists directly.

It was only when you deselected all colonists that the tabs would remain close in A15. That system always worked fine for me. By comparison, A16 gets to be obtrusive.

sorry in advance for unstable english.

1st moment, repair in construction
This is really inconvenient change, i was playing around with big base (devmodded colonists and resources), after big raid there is always tons of stuff to repair, with new system you need add construction to most of your colonists for quick repair of killbox (1 or 2 dedicated constructors would take to much time), than babysit them so after repair is done you remove construction from everyone except your main constructors, otherwise pawns with construction 1 or 2 who was repairing stuff start rebuild turrets and other destroyed objects (and often fail construction). This change just bring additional micromanagement.

2nd new prices
Its nice to see rebalanced prices on stuff, but i think new cost of weapons is a bit too much, raids, especially melee raids just brings to much money.
Maybe make is so weapons price would decrease much mode drastically with decreased health, with 100% health current cost, that way weapons crafted by your colonists would sells for nice money, and damaged weapons (from raids) would cost much less.

3rd new alert on dying crops
While its nice now have alert about stuff going bad, if you have several big growing zones, and plants start do die from whatever, new alerts become really intrusive, especially with sounds.

Minor UI gripe:

On the initial base location selection screen, if you hit "Select random site", the resulting terrain info screen that pops up is large enough to force the buttons display to shift to the right.

If you quickly read that the game has selected an ice sheet or other unwanted location then click again to re-roll without moving your cursor, there's a decent chance you'll be clicking on "Advanced" now instead.

Note: I'm on a 1366x768 monitor with the smallest (1.0) UI settings.

Quote from: chch88 on December 15, 2016, 08:40:31 AM
3rd new alert on dying crops
While its nice now have alert about stuff going bad, if you have several big growing zones, and plants start do die from whatever, new alerts become really intrusive, especially with sounds.

I agree. In the start of the winter all my crops were expectably dying and each single plant had its own message. I was like LEAVE ME ALONE PLEASE

Maybe make modern weapon cost much much higher than neolithic and medieval ones.

Quote from: carbon on December 15, 2016, 07:41:03 AM
Mike (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27929.msg284243#msg284243), what you described sounds exactly like previous alphas.

That's precisely why inferno cannons have long been the stuff of nightmares.

Nah, IIRC in previous alphas, colonists on fire would eventually put themselves out; them running out of cover for a bit was punishment enough. This alpha, he started out as On Fire (30), ran out of the fire, reached On Fire (60) before he went into shock, and had reached On Fire (110) before a pirate kidnapped him, which immediately extinguished the fire on him.

Also, has anyone else noticed a severe dearth of colonists who can Clean or Haul? I just imploded a colony where only 1 of the 6 colonists could Clean/Haul; I figured it was either due to bad luck or it being on Intense difficulty until someone else on Discord complained they were having trouble getting Cleaners/Haulers on Peaceful difficulty, too.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 15, 2016, 09:47:53 AM
... colonists on fire would eventually put themselves out ...

They still put themselves out, it just takes a bit (RNG-based, I assume). I just watched a pawn do it in 0.16.1387.

The other mechanics you mentioned (fire increasing while running and going out upon rescue), are standard pre-A16 stuff. I used to hunt boomalope and that's consistently what one would see while doing it (mainly it was the boomalopes on fire, thankfully).

It's possible there's a minor tweak in there somewhere (exact timing, RNG, etc), but the fundamentals really aren't new.

Did the works bed rest and patient chang?

I have everyone set to patient 1 and bed rest 2, while having some work like construction in 1. My builder had several wounds that needed bandage and he instead choose to keep building. I drafted-undrafted him but he still went to construct. Then I put bed rest 1 and he went to rest to bed.

I would think that anyone with any need for treatment would go to medical bed, while bed rest would make them stay after getting treated.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
Did the works bed rest and patient chang?

I have everyone set to patient 1 and bed rest 2, while having some work like construction in 1. My builder had several wounds that needed bandage and he instead choose to keep building. I drafted-undrafted him but he still went to construct. Then I put bed rest 1 and he went to rest to bed.

I would think that anyone with any need for treatment would go to medical bed, while bed rest would make them stay after getting treated.

Patient is only for surgery/operations.
bed rest is for all sickness/bloodloss and sleeping.

Is it me, or are guest beds gone? I can't seem to find the option to make any. I wanted to check here before I post it in the bugs forum in case I missed something.

Also, when did Rimworld go pg13? t seems to be a lot of naked pawns running around, both on creation and visitors, wanders, and raiders!

Quote from: Seinne on December 15, 2016, 11:12:20 AM
Is it me, or are guest beds gone? I can't seem to find the option to make any. I wanted to check here before I post it in the bugs forum in case I missed something.

hospitality mod

Quote from: Grishnerf on December 15, 2016, 11:11:43 AM

Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
Did the works bed rest and patient chang?

I have everyone set to patient 1 and bed rest 2, while having some work like construction in 1. My builder had several wounds that needed bandage and he instead choose to keep building. I drafted-undrafted him but he still went to construct. Then I put bed rest 1 and he went to rest to bed.

I would think that anyone with any need for treatment would go to medical bed, while bed rest would make them stay after getting treated.

Patient is only for surgery/operations.
bed rest is for all sickness/bloodloss and sleeping.

Was it like this before? Honestly I prefer them to get their injuries treated but continue working after that.

Even with patient and bed rest set to high, pawns just love to get up and round around. Has always been like that.

Quote from: Grishnerf on December 15, 2016, 11:15:49 AM

Quote from: Seinne on December 15, 2016, 11:12:20 AM
Is it me, or are guest beds gone? I can't seem to find the option to make any. I wanted to check here before I post it in the bugs forum in case I missed something.

hospitality mod

See that's why I posted here first. Been playing with that mod so long I consider it core....

Thanks for the info everyone. I can't respond to everything but I am considering all of it.

The dead mans cloth mechanic is a bit mhm.. stupid in my opinion. It makes the apparel nearly useless.
If you know, anyone will die from infection/disease you have to strip him before he dies otherwise his apparel is worthless.
Same with raids: Now you have to punch the raiders out instead of killing them to gain the apparel. Raiders who are downed needs to be stripped right on the battleflied.

The pawns are fighting for their lives and all they have do think about is that they wear cloths from a dead man? Even if they cant know that this are cloths from a dead one.


Another thing is the bleed out rate. On a long fight, you dont have any time to tend the new prisoners cause they bleed out during fight or tending. I know, anyone who got shot 4 times will bleed like a waterfall, but this is ridiculous. Half of the colony have to be medics if you had a really tough fight.
Same with pets: A pet only run is now nearly impossible cause half of them will just bleed to death. Tending needs too much time now and your unable to tend all pets in time with this bleedout rate

now with the tending quality, a "first aid" solution would be nice. Stops bleedings fast, but the tending quality is very bad and infection rate is high. Should be possible to tend again afterwards to improve the tend quality and reduce infection rate

Was the auto healing when downed fixed in the last patch? I ask because I have seen some raiders getting up and fleeing and some wild animals too.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 12:41:46 PM
Was the auto healing when downed fixed in the last patch? I ask because I have seen some raiders getting up and fleeing and some wild animals too.

i think this is kinda a nice feature. (even if it is not intended :D )
if the raiders are not injured that bad, they should be able to recover from the "shock".

i'm up to 5 years in my current colony on a16 and have seen this happen twice.
one time on a raider , one time on a mechanoid. (damaged Software can reboot ! :D )

only thing i would complain about is that instead of always recover and fleeing, they should also have a Chance
to try to pick up their weapon (or any other near weapon) and attack again.

but maybe it is just me.
but it would make long battles sometimes more tricky if one raider gets up again and suddenly he tries to pick up a weapon in your storage room and takes a completely different path than the other raiders and flanks you.

(hope it is not a bug)

Raiders from Sieges still try to build unfinished stuff of older Sieges.
they send only one worker at a time.
so you can kill them like Lemmings, all trying to build that damn sandbag in the opposite Corner of the map.

Updated to 0.16.1388!

Form caravan command icon muffalo now has pack on.
Fix: BreadthFirstTraverse with null root region when meleeing hive to death
Fix: Plants die to due to cold despite it being warm
Fix UI scale fix Screen size -> UI size
Fix: Modding a minifiedDef onto work benches causes warning spam
Fix: Mechanoids try to wear clothes in very cold weather
Made it so you can't set a UI scale so large that the UI won't fit on your screen any more.
Game will no longer crash if drawing UI under minimum resolution (as when UI scale is too high).
Ambush end message clarified.
Fix: Dying crop alert too often. 15 second delay -> 240 second delay.
Added sell price factor on weapons of 20% to compensate for the number of free ones you get from raids.
Fix: Unity assets memory leak when pressing "Back" after generating a planet
Fix: Rare null ref in turret target finding when manning pawn is killed.
ITabs now automatically close if you create a selection where they can't be displayed.
Faction bases now have 10% more combat points.
DamageInfo.SetForcedHitPart() is now public.
Caravans no longer drink beer when hungry. Caravans now eat DesperateOnly food only when starving.
ResolveParams now allows using custom named parameters.
Fix 2817: Fire sustainer was null at lightning strike location
Maps are now "closed" when there are no more spawned player pawns (instead of spawned+unspawned). Pawns that are left on a map which is owned by a hostile faction are now automatically kidnapped.
Ancient shrines no longer spawn on maps with faction bases.

Mr. Dr. Tynann,
I am using steam and the unstable branch. When I open Rim world, everything works fine. I choose storyteller, generate a world choose a spot, choose colonists, then I hit start and normally it would show the area I landed, instead it shows all the UI, and nothing else. Whenever I open a tab, then close it, the tab closes, but where it was turns into like a blue and shadow of it.(see picture)
Love the game. Please fix.Thanks
                      -Anonymous

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

Quote from: Jpthechub on December 15, 2016, 03:17:04 PM
Mr. Dr. Tynann,
I am using steam and the unstable branch. When I open Rim world, everything works fine. I choose storyteller, generate a world choose a spot, choose colonists, then I hit start and normally it would show the area I landed, instead it shows all the UI, and nothing else. Whenever I open a tab, then close it, the tab closes, but where it was turns into like a blue and shadow of it.(see picture)
Love the game. Please fix.Thanks
                      -Anonymous

Can you please post your log file? Find it in your RimWorld install folder, as RimWorld_Data/output_log

Unless I've somehow missed it, it would be really handy if the info tab lists whether or not a colonist / animal can carry things in a caravan and how much.

It's frustrating to train a Retriever to haul, only to find it can't (apparently) serve as a pack animal in your caravan.

Quote from: carbon on December 15, 2016, 04:05:01 PM
Unless I've somehow missed it, it would be really handy if the info tab lists whether or not a colonist / animal can carry things in a caravan and how much.

It's frustrating to train a Retriever to haul, only to find it can't (apparently) serve as a pack animal in your caravan.

Good thought.

If colonists are going to be upset about wearing dead people's clothing, we could really use a setting in the outfit management tab to disallow wearing dead people's things.  It's rather frustrating to make them take it off and know that I can't unforbid it lest they or someone else potentially rewear it.  Also, I personally feel that a dead guy's stuff should lose the debuff after awhile, one day you will wake up and it won't look like a corpse's tuque, it'll look like your tuque.  Some colonists should careless or not at all to begin with as well, and of course some colonists should care more or refuse outright. 

In terms of UI, I think simply tacking a D onto the end of the name isn't ideal.  I think you would be better off with a color change of the name to red or some other color.  When the trader showed up the first thing I wanted to do was sell everything that could give a debuff that I didn't absolutely need, but every item has a different length name, some include their % causing further variance, ultimately meaning I was hunting for a "D" as if it were a column when it's not.  A font color difference would have made the sorting far easier.

Colonists should try quite hard to avoid wearing deadman's clothes automatically, obviating the need to lock these out, but I just realized there are cases where they won't, so I'll address that.

-Is it possible to fully take over the world ( kill all bases ? ) end a faction / kill all bases of one faction ?

-Drugs need w8's / Price's reviewing again ( Go-Juice worth more than Yayo both 1kg each, luci 0.07kg each etc )

-is a caravan's move speed affected by the slowest moving pawn ( colonist or muffalo ) ?
- Can bionic legs speed up Caravan/Pawn World move speed ? (faster move speed means less food needed - leg-Injury = more food )...


Would it be possible for users to create a base/base design in dev mode to submit to forums / dev to use in the world. ( or a custom website portal  )

( player content = more bases / different designs would Decrease / Increase work for dev as designs need to be reviewed before enter'd into the game / world ) , eg: mods add custom factions and custom bases ...

[spoiler] in KSP players can design a ship/aircraft/boat and upload it to a site for others to download/review. Rimworld could do the same with bases designs [/spoiler]
added spoiler tag coz I spoke of another game/website

- feel free to delete this whole post

Did the name generation for factions change recently? I don't remember them getting quite that long.

Maybe abbreviations or word wrapping would be appropriate.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

Alright. I popped in and started a new game. First thing I did was go in and fight a raider outpost. Managed to down a few of them and chase away the rest. Destroyed my old settlement and claimed this as my own. Turned one of the rooms into a prison for the raiders I downed, but none of my colonists would capture them. Even when the message that an accessible prison bed wasn't available didn't pop up they still refused.

Quote from: Tynan on December 15, 2016, 03:22:01 PM

Quote from: Jpthechub on December 15, 2016, 03:17:04 PM
Mr. Dr. Tynann,
I am using steam and the unstable branch. When I open Rim world, everything works fine. I choose storyteller, generate a world choose a spot, choose colonists, then I hit start and normally it would show the area I landed, instead it shows all the UI, and nothing else. Whenever I open a tab, then close it, the tab closes, but where it was turns into like a blue and shadow of it.(see picture)
Love the game. Please fix.Thanks
                      -Anonymous

Can you please post your log file? Find it in your RimWorld install folder, as RimWorld_Data/output_log

I tried but it exceeds 2000 characters. Is there any other way?

attach the file to the post. its under the text box where you write.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 07:23:47 PM
attach the file to the post. its under the text box where you write.

Thanks.

It said the atachment was too big.  :'(

when i see a raider, my initial reaction is this.

that's a nice hat. i like that hat. i think that hat is mine now.

no debuff.

but i guess the main reason why Ty added the distinction with dead people's stuff is coz he wants players to focus more on crafting and trading rather than looting.

But dead people's clothing was already often damaged. Frequently leading to tattered apparel. It's true that you could go on for quite a while without making your own clothing (maybe too long), but if you wanted high quality, good condition stuff, crafting was already needed for most items. It would also have been possible to damage stuff even more

I uninstalled it and it works!
Thanks anyway!

Quote from: Steam Squirrel on December 15, 2016, 07:29:10 PM

Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 07:23:47 PM
attach the file to the post. its under the text box where you write.

Thanks.

It said the atachment was too big.  :'(

Try to compress it in zip. If not you can go to mediafire or dropbox, for example.

When you assemble a Caravan it's hard to remember who has weapons, and what weapon, if you have a lot of colonist. This could be fixed if you display the weapon the colonist has right next to them on the Caravan assemble. This should also be done with armor. The whole idea actually sound incredibly useful.

Another way you can use this is if you have a tab where you can see your stockpiled weapons and armor and equip them from this. 

No idea if Infections got more brutal in this Alpha or not but if your doctor get infected at the very early game you might as well forget that you ever had that colonist.
Ruins the fun factor very hard for me at least to know i got no remote chance of saving a colonist.
You would think that the doctor would be able to treat themselves to an extent with bandages or help with their knowledge to the other colonist who are treating them.

Greatest cause of death for me has been those damn infections so far. Even with a somewhat skilled Doctor. Forget the raiders and tribals. Mother nature is the biggest killer.

Irritated salty feedback.

Its true about the infections. I had one guy getting infected in a 4x5 hospital with sterile tiles and 2 hospital beds. had him treated with no medicine but rest all the time. checked him and the % was very high when he reached major so I set him to medicine. he died at 70% something, he had absolutely no chance. would medicine have changed that? how even medicine works with infections? when they get treated i dont see any bump in the %.

Not sure why so many speak out against the changes to clothing. It makes total sense both in a realistic way, as well as design-wise.
If you wouldn't have any problems at all with putting on a t-shirt that is soaked in some dead guy's blood, your life must have been pretty fucked up, and you have my deepest sympathies.
Even worse, what if it had been a while? I'm fairly certain that it would take a LOT before any of us would even consider wearing it, even though the brand new corpse-flies designs are really in this season.

What makes absolutely no sense however, is that chemfuel cannot be used to fuel a generator. Pretty please, Tynan?

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 15, 2016, 09:36:51 PM
Not sure why so many speak out against the changes to clothing. It makes total sense both in a realistic way, as well as design-wise.
If you wouldn't have any problems at all with putting on a t-shirt that is soaked in some dead guy's blood, your life must have been pretty fucked up, and you have my deepest sympathies.

Well, t-shirt from dead guy wasn't always soaked in blood. It might be from the man who died from an old age or someone sick. I agreed that wearing their cloth would cost a mood debuff, but I'm not against the effect wearing off. Well the effect could be longer if it's taken from wet-death.

and I would like a feature to de-fabricate of whatever it called, I mean "deconstruct" the cloth to get its raw materials.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 15, 2016, 08:51:52 PM
Its true about the infections. I had one guy getting infected in a 4x5 hospital with sterile tiles and 2 hospital beds. had him treated with no medicine but rest all the time. checked him and the % was very high when he reached major so I set him to medicine. he died at 70% something, he had absolutely no chance. would medicine have changed that? how even medicine works with infections? when they get treated i dont see any bump in the %.

Medicine increases the treatment % effectiveness. Medics with high Medicine also have good results. If nothing was changed, a number of things might have been responsible. Treatment peridiocity (did he remain untreated during that time?), beds' comfort (stone beds are less confortable) and treatment quality.

Wounds which are old (as in, weren't treated for a long time) also affect infection rate.

Okay, let's not spiral off into arguments about specific features.

This thread is for play stories and experience-based feedback, please.

Honestly its pretty difficult to see who has weapons when making a caravan. Sent an unarmed pawn by accident and to not relive that mistake I have to exit out to my colony to recheck and then enter the caravan menu again ):

Also, like the new clothing debuff but maybe make it slightly smaller in amount? I think that should fix it and make everyone happy.

Why cant my doggos be pack animals yet they can haul? I think most animals that can haul should be pack animals! it would encourage more animals in the colony.

Quote from: CodeRen on December 15, 2016, 11:02:27 PM
Honestly its pretty difficult to see who has weapons when making a caravan. Sent an unarmed pawn by accident and to not relive that mistake I have to exit out to my colony to recheck and then enter the caravan menu again ):

Also, like the new clothing debuff but maybe make it slightly smaller in amount? I think that should fix it and make everyone happy.

Why cant my doggos be pack animals yet they can haul? I think most animals that can haul should be pack animals! it would encourage more animals in the colony.

I think it's more about the training most dogs household dogs freak if you put stuff on them. However, speaking of training what if you have to train them to be pack animals.(this includes all animals; except for obvious ones) (p.s not sure if this isn't already a thing)

This is what i meant earlier. This should be in the game so its easier to select the colonist you need.
(http://i.imgur.com/QuY7zjS.jpg)

Is anyone getting framerate 'stuttering' when opening a pawns Needs tab?  I've noticed this quirk since the first iteration of A16 and still have it to this day.  I always make a new world and group of colonists and run no mods to keep it pure Devbuild.

As soon as the Needs window is closed the game runs smooth as silk.  And the Logs show no errors while it's stuttering so I'm currently at a loss.

I recently experimented with the prisoner system with Caravans and world traveling.

There is one thing i noticed and that is prisoners just run around when they leave and enter a colony,
they could just run away since they are being ignored and run to their cells themself.

Another thing is when a Caravan is formed and somebody is getting a breakown, the caravan is paused.
if you cancel the caravan than all the prisoners just run away.

Maybe we could "chain" or "Tow" him with a person. or let them follow a person similar to a pet.

The cost modifier to weapons is hampering my efforts to sell the poor-quality weapons I craft. It also looks like clothing isn't getting the deadman's 90% discount. I think a more elegant way of handling this would be to make selling cost drop exponentially with quality, and then lower the quality of most raiders' weapons. (Unless they're crafting new weapons after every raid, it doesn't make sense for most of them to have weapons above 80%.)

I would suggest having clothes deteriorate faster with combat damage, but that would either require making them easier to craft or having some way of repairing them. (Personally, I would prefer the latter, just so I could eventually have a 100% Shield Generator.)

-Plague is WAY too strong now. It used to be dangerous, but now it's basically randomly pick colonist and kill them. My main doctor (and half the colony) became sick. And he died at 93% immunity, despite using an excellent medical bed + vital monitor. The reason ? Because my next doctor had rather low skill (6, blame RNG). In short, if your doctor is affected, he is going to die.
Another colonist is sharing the same fate, because I didn't have a medical bed for him. None of them have medical condition which increase the plague (a few scars here and there), so I guess it's related to that (it progressed much faster for them than the others).
-Caravans is kinda useless. It takes forever to move to a nearby colony/camp, and the reward is merely some trade. While the trade is good, the price in food is very high. As for raiding, I haven't tested thoroughly, just used the console to pop in a base, and the loot didn't seem interesting at all for the cost (food + fight).
-Can we have a "super" speed on the world map ? Taking my whole colony as a caravan to travel to the closest NPC colony took me a good 5m doing nothing but watching paint dry (IE the world map).
-Can we have a travel food that will occur a mood debuff on the colony map ? Pemmican is not good at all, and my caravan was mostly food, which s***. Especially considering in real life, they would forage/hunt and cook on the way, thus limiting the amount of food used.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 16, 2016, 02:05:33 AM
The cost modifier to weapons is hampering my efforts to sell the poor-quality weapons I craft. It also looks like clothing isn't getting the deadman's 90% discount. I think a more elegant way of handling this would be to make selling cost drop exponentially with quality, and then lower the quality of most raiders' weapons. (Unless they're crafting new weapons after every raid, it doesn't make sense for most of them to have weapons above 80%.)

I would suggest having clothes deteriorate faster with combat damage, but that would either require making them easier to craft or having some way of repairing them. (Personally, I would prefer the latter, just so I could eventually have a 100% Shield Generator.)

This would be my preferred solution also. Raider weapons are almost always low quality / bad durability anyway, so I doin't think you would need to penalize that further, even -- the existing durability / quality curve is fine.

There should be an especially sharp drop for quality below 50% and 20% respectively. Why are traders buying tatters?

As scrubs and toilet paper I guess? I bet it's pretty hard to get toilet paper on a rimworld...

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 16, 2016, 02:05:33 AM
The cost modifier to weapons is hampering my efforts to sell the poor-quality weapons I craft. It also looks like clothing isn't getting the deadman's 90% discount. I think a more elegant way of handling this would be to make selling cost drop exponentially with quality, and then lower the quality of most raiders' weapons. (Unless they're crafting new weapons after every raid, it doesn't make sense for most of them to have weapons above 80%.)

No, that's a less elegant solution. It would nerf the raiders. It's alot more elegant to make the loot from them less lucrative.

If you lower the quality of raiders' weapons you lower their strength, which is already shoddy.

Raider strength can be rebalanced by other means to compensate (higher Shooting/Melee skills, higher accuracy per % quality for weapons, etc).

If you look at the tooltip when you're trading things, you will see a list of price modifiers.

So for example, selling weapons to a combat supplier is a really bad idea, because on top of the modifier that you get because you're selling, you get another penalty because it's weapons you're selling and they have plenty.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 16, 2016, 11:20:27 AM
Raider strength can be rebalanced by other means to compensate (higher Shooting/Melee skills, higher accuracy per % quality for weapons, etc).

Then you make them all to lucrative too recruit, and soon all your colonists will consist of these superskilled fighters. You just create new problems instead of the more elegant solution of A16.

Hey let's please focus on discussing your play experiences. I'll handle the design reasoning :) Thanks.

You're welcome to make another thread if that's what you want to talk about, but this is for evidence-based feedback.

I can't get my A16 desert colony up and running. Between higher temperatures, longer production and research times at debuffed tables, longer healing-and-going-berserk-from-exceptional-pain and longer growing crops - it's too much with Cassandra extreme. That long lasting pain mood debuff is the worst - unless I roll colonists with sanguine/iron-willed the WILL have mental breaks after fights.

I love it. ;D Finally extreme difficulty matches its description.

my experience with drugs in a16 (so far) :

Normal Biome, Cassandra Rough , playing full drug addiction Colony. reaching 5th year :

I'm around 20 pawns with 50k silver lying around.

1) Trading in general like others have said is too much rewarding at the moment.
I think it is just the trading prices.
I'm not even sold out, I have all my stuff ready to sell more.. (1,5k yayo, 1k flake, around 3k neutramine,
2 orbital-trade-beacon warehouses full of devilstrand clothes, alpaca chairs etc the list goes on..)

I also have bought ALL the important stuff like bionics, body parts, big Screen TVs, etc..
It never was this easy before.

Especially drug production feels way too easy and rewarding.
Plant field, forget about it, Profit.
I honestly dont know what to do with the silver.
maybe start unefficient silver sculpture production for the beauty. :D


2) Using Yayo + Beer in general is much more dangerous now.
Somehow i liked it to remove cancer in nearly all of my colonists and give ~10 of them new kidneys.
BUT i think overall drugs damaging bodyparts is a bit too much at the moment.
Of my 20 colonists there are 6 people left that have no damaged kidney or brain.
5 People have a permanent damaged brain. 4 Cirrhosis. 2 people died. Uncounted kidneys.
Mostly all on yayo+ beer.
Also Yayo makes nearly everyone addicted, even on first use.
On the other hand, my crafters are sometimes crafting 24/7 on Wakeup and never get addicted.
Only Yayo.

At the 2-3rd year i stopped playing yayo addicts, cause it was too dangerous.
The 4th year was really a pain getting the best pawns "clean" again.
Surviving the yayo-binge-event-cycles and the operations for new body parts.

but after all, somehow a great experience!


TL:DR 

1) far too easy to make Money with drugs.
2) using yayo is not worth, cause of the new effects to brain and kidney.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! New build is up. 0.16.1389.

Reduced drug profitability a bit.
Global trade price factors are somewhat worse.
Dialog_FormCaravan, Dialog_LoadTransporters, Dialog_Trade, and Dialog_SplitCaravan now cache their mass and days worth of food values.
Fix: Split caravan dialog tabs use wrong translation keys.
Language data update. Fix player content issue.
"Days worth of food" is now cached for the caravan's inspect pane.
Player content update.
Fix: Pawns take penoxycyline even though they binge on a different drug.
Fix 2829: Pets eat forbidden food (in weird frequency patterns)
Mitigate 2866: No thoughts in group with (NeedBeauty) for pawn Connor
Fix: Pets ignore restriction with drafted master and no-follow on
Mitigate 2865: GetMainThoughts corrupts its own temp data
Fix 2864: Pawns that aren't all that into their beautiful lover have nearly static moods
Fix: Mass calculation when trading as a caravan does not include silver.
Fix: Replacing wall with cooler refunds more resources than used
Fix: Colonists prioritize hauling bodies over burying them
"Split caravan" and "Merge caravans" commands use pack muffalo image.
Info tab says if an animal is a pack animal.
Deadman's score can now send the score zero. Apply a 0.5 offset, then factor. This should make them NEVER want to pick up bad deadman's clothes in most cases.
Fix 2860: Clothing looted from corpses with Reform Caravan not considered deadman's
Fix: Colonists freeze when they try to load a transport pod outside of their allowed area
Fix: Animals do not wake up to form a caravan
Fix: Burning sound is sometimes played on all maps

Minor suggestion: add visual lines which you can toggle on world map that tell you where the equator is et cetera.

More than minor suggestion: add random planetary wobble on mapgen which makes seasons not planet-wide.

i think there should be ability to exclude deadmans clothes in outfit tool, you can choose certain quality, exact hitpoint percent, exclude items, but you cant forbid deadmans clothes, maybe they should be included by default in anything outfit, but once tailoring established you certainly dont want your pawns wearing such clothes no matter the circumstances.

about factions bases we raid on global map, they look so small and pitiful makes me want to build then something better, i hope there would be bigger, better protected ones, as the game progress.

Uranium seems awfully sparse, is this intended?

"Psychite" addiction doesn't really convey a lot of relevant information. What drugs fall under the name "psychite"? I suspect it's Yayo, but the tooltip should probably point that out.

Can you let us take luciferium to our inventory? It seems like something an addict would want to keep close to heart, especially considering what's going to happen if they don't have it.

Will there be a way to put the prisoners on a drug-schedule as well? I'm not saying that the research I'll be doing is ethical, but I really want to know the effects of prolonged drug-use, and my prisoners are worth less to me than my colonists (as you damn well know after my post about how things went the last time I captured you, Tynan!). Can they (or will they currently) get the drugs they need to feed their addictions without us manually injecting them?

Psychite refers to any drug produced from the psychoid plant (yayo and flake). Analogous to the real world use of "opiate" drugs derived from plant-based opium. Probably couldn't hurt to add a simple -Psychite- label to the drugs' descriptions.

Taking luciferium to inventory is already a thing. Did you miss it (need to use a schedule) or are you asking for some other inventorying mechanic?



[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

I have had level 20 doctors kill patients putting on bionic arms and legs about 6 times now. It seems there is about a 33-50% chance that putting on bionic parts will result in a mistake even in a sterile room with a level 20 doctor. Not sure what is going on there but that seems wrong. Also losing the bionic part because of a mistake seems wrong and very annoying (I know its been this way for a while).

Quote from: hoochy on December 16, 2016, 07:22:55 PM
I have had level 20 doctors kill patients putting on bionic arms and legs about 6 times now. It seems there is about a 33-50% chance that putting on bionic parts will result in a mistake even in a sterile room with a level 20 doctor. Not sure what is going on there but that seems wrong. Also losing the bionic part because of a mistake seems wrong and very annoying.

Using glitterworld medicine or what medicine for the "anesthetic"?  I always buy some glitterworld medicine to use for the bionics because it seems to up success rate, but I wouldn't claim to have done a statistically significant number of bionic surgeries.

Quote from: Ashiver on December 16, 2016, 07:30:17 PM

Quote from: hoochy on December 16, 2016, 07:22:55 PM
I have had level 20 doctors kill patients putting on bionic arms and legs about 6 times now. It seems there is about a 33-50% chance that putting on bionic parts will result in a mistake even in a sterile room with a level 20 doctor. Not sure what is going on there but that seems wrong. Also losing the bionic part because of a mistake seems wrong and very annoying.

Using glitterworld medicine or what medicine for the "anesthetic"?  I always buy some glitterworld medicine to use for the bionics because it seems to up success rate, but I wouldn't claim to have done a statistically significant number of bionic surgeries.

It was just normal medicine, I cheated in bionic arms and legs for all my colonists and maxed my doctor skills. A level 20 doctor is killing people left and right. To me it seems a level 20 doctor, regardless of medicine, should have a very low chance of murdering people putting on bionic parts. If buying glitterworld medicine (which is easy) makes a level 3 doctor better than a level 20 doctor then there is no reason to level doctors.

From my play experience it seems doctor level plays very small part when it comes to murdering people with bionic parts.

From the outside perspective, putting on a bionic part seems a relatively "safe" procedure. After all if you have robotic legs then you think you have this technology which allows it to be added to a human relatively safely, but maybe this is just in my head. If we are talking about curing cancer or aids in the game then it makes sense a lot of people may die if a doctor is just using herbal medicine or something, regardless of level.

@hoochy  select your lvl 20 doctor and click on the "i" button.
scroll down there in the menu and look what's his operation success chance.
skill rating alone does not guarantee a safe operation.
often times someone you would never think off has a higher Operation success Chance than your best doctor.

Quote from: Grishnerf on December 16, 2016, 07:43:15 PM
@hoochy  select your lvl 20 doctor and click on the "i" button.
scroll down there in the menu and look what's his operation success chance.
skill rating alone does not guarantee a safe operation.
often times someone you would never think off has a higher Operation success Chance than your best doctor.

My main doctor has 115% success chance with surgery and has murdered 4 people. The other doctor which is also level 20 has 99% chance and has murdered 2 people.

If you just spawn in bionic eyes. legs, arms, and put all 6 on one patient in one go, there should be at least one failure regardless of doctor. Usually I have 2 or 3 failures when doing this and there is a high chance it is a mortal mistake.

1 in 6 is about exactly right. A level 20 bionic doctor in a sterile room should have a ~82% chance of success rate with regular medicine in A16.

I just tested with two patients myself and 12 out of 12 were successful.

I got visited by a slaver caravan today where all the non-slave items had a 200% trader type modifier. This meant it cost twice as much to buy items from them... but it also meant I could sell him items for double market value.

Is this working as intended?

Also, said caravan got wounded by a simultaneous raid. Two of its members will bleed to death within a day. Between that and being able to assault other bases now, I'd like a way to bandage wounds in the field.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 16, 2016, 11:03:13 PM
I got visited by a slaver caravan today where all the non-slave items had a 200% trader type modifier. This meant it cost twice as much to buy items from them... but it also meant I could sell him items for double market value.

Is this working as intended?

Maybe. I'll have to check. Thanks.

Idk if its intended but you can administer drugs to animals in the operation list, like luciferium and go juice.

On the same topic, it would be nice if we could install peg legs to the animals.

My cat died early on and he was mourned with a -8 modifier for what seemed like a very long time.

I've personally lost pets and mourned them greatly but after a while the sadness all but goes away and you just have the good memories.

Given how easy it is for pets to accidentally die to a stray snake, it's almost not worth the risk from a purely gamey point of view. (Of course that's not going to stop me from having pets in RimWorld but...)

Quote from: Alenerel on December 17, 2016, 03:43:41 AM
Idk if its intended but you can administer drugs to animals in the operation list, like luciferium and go juice.

On the same topic, it would be nice if we could install peg legs to the animals.

I hope to god that's intended because giving Wargs combat drugs is great.

So... is there any particular reason rat corpses weigh 10kg, aka 20lbs?



[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

Is kind words having the potential to cause a social fight an intended thing? You can justify it as 'feeling patronized' or something, but it seems unintentional, or could use better explanation.

Someone posted this on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/5iqmty/i_dont_take_kindly_to_your_kindness/

Alright, the new caravan mechanic saved my colony.

I randomly landed in a cool desert in Autumn, so I was struggling to have enough food for the winter. I'm slated to run about halfway through it, without enough meat to restock my stores. (For some reason, only rats were appearing on the map, despite the temp being a relatively mild 0F to 50F for winter.) Then I get a random event that a group of cats have arrived at my colony. I'm nearly banging my head against the desk at this; the cats don't have enough meat on them to get more than a day or two worth of food out of butchering them, but they'd devour my kibble supplies in no time flat if I tried to save them for a caravan.

Then I realized I could make my own caravan and herd those cats towards the nearest settlement for a hefty profit. I immediately send out 3 of my 6 colonists with the cats in tow as a last-ditch effort to buy enough food for the winter. I have just enough food to keep everyone fed until they returned 3 days later. The trip went off without a hitch; I sold the cats for 1500 silver total at the settlement and used the proceeds to buy 500 rice, enough to last us through the winter once I cooked it.

P.S. Cats might be a tad overvalued now that you can sell them whenever you want.

The caravan has an estimated time of arrival in days and hours, but their estimated food supply is in days and decimals. 4 days 8 hrs and 4.8 days aren't the same thing and has the potential for confusion.

Since Muffalo are more likely to be kept as animals in this version, can their herding behaviour be kept once tamed? Muff in the wild will congregate and act as a group, but tamed muffalo act as individuals.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 17, 2016, 04:08:23 AM
So... is there any particular reason rat corpses weigh 10kg, aka 20lbs?

Stop fatshaming rats, dude. It's not cool.

Quote from: Mehni on December 17, 2016, 05:48:21 AM
The caravan has an estimated time of arrival in days and hours, but their estimated food supply is in days and decimals. 4 days 8 hrs and 4.8 days aren't the same thing and has the potential for confusion.

I've heard some guys crashed a Mars orbiter with these kind of conversions. Here at least, even if you're confused you've got a positive margin.

True, but for really long trips it starts turning trip times into seasons and days (while food time is just days), so the margin will go very negative when it really counts.

Quote from: hoochy on December 16, 2016, 07:52:45 PM
My main doctor has 115% success chance with surgery and has murdered 4 people.

This god damn it so much this.
I was so glad in A15 because wake-ups+go-juice would pretty much render doctors unable to fail, which made sense. A well-prepared skilled doctor wouldn't fail something simple like bionics. Now it seems to be completely RNG based.

I just got ambushed by some boomrats, they spawned in the same corner as i did and litualy exploded before i even entered the map.
i think they shouldn't spawn in the same corner as the caravan

Okay, 1390 is up! Just bugfixes in this one, and some small balance changes. Thanks for the ongoing feedback, we're almost there.

Not sure if it's a bug or not, but has anyone else noticed that pawns finish off downed raiders instead of letting them live long enough to be captured?

Even after I've undrafted a pawn, I've seen one put a round into a downed raider on the way by.

Faction Name: To Eir is human
Faction "Leader": Eir Roth-Kelly

Start: Rich Explorer
Difficulty & Storyteller: Peaceful, Chillax

I spent about 2 in game weeks building a base, only to have the stark realization that I'm going to be resource starved in my jungle biome. I just lacked materials. So, I thought I'd send my new arrival and my main leader off to the closest village. Around the same time, I got a message from the other side of the planet (100% here) from a friendly AI, so I decided that was my goal. Then, I had a bit of a surprise on the way to the nearby town, an encounter. (Not offering hugs, that's for sure!) I realized I might be able to trek over to the AI, so, I abandoned the few remaining items in my colony, and proceeded to make my way towards the AI, figuring I can trade for more food, with my money and supplies.

This is, admittedly where I got a little annoyed. I made what I thought at the time, to be a smart trade. I traded glitterworld medicine and a formerly living pirate's machine pistol for rice, thinking that my colonists would camp at night, and would cook themselves a simple meal using the rice. Instead, they proceeded to gorge themselves on the raw rice, and the supply went down rather rapidly. So, the 2000 rice I had, was quickly eaten, perhaps this was a terrain feature. I stopped at the next town, and dug deep, selling a lot of things that I'd rather have kept, for corn this time. In the end, it didn't help matters, the corn was eaten just as fast as the rice.

So, in a mix of desperation and heroism, I decided to attack a pirate base, and do those towns a favor, in ridding them of a local menace. My faction leader, with a charge rifle, my non-violent nurse, and my pet arctic wolf; against what I found out to be 12 angry pirates, some of which are armored and with personal shields, yikes. So, quickly I decide I need to get some protection up, but before I can even get started, they attack me. (Honestly, the ability to throw up fortifications at the enemy's doorstep is AWESOME!)

The response is brutal, Large Machine Guns, Sniper rifles, Assault rifles, and who I assume was their commander with the charge rifle. Suddenly, my odds weren't looking too good. I went in without any knowledge of this base, and now I'm looking at a real dangerous situation, far from any danger I might have normally encountered at this stage. (I mean, usually I'm dealing with clubs and the odd shotgun/frag grenade user) I decide that I need to retreat at least one of the two colonists I have, and the non-violent nurse is the chosen one, but I plan to have her retreat at the last possible moment, to buy me time to try and flank the enemy. The nurse manages to get away with a few minor bruises, but my arctic wolf is down, and my newly acquired hen is gunned down. Now, I'll admit, shooting my arctic wolf makes perfect sense, but why shoot a hen? I digress, my leader has flanked the enemy to a limited degree, and I'm now closer to their base than they are... unfortunately, I took a shot from a LMG in the lung. Naturally, any gunshot wounds are bad, but a lung hit is really bad. Realizing I had no good options left, I retreated, tail between my legs. Now, despite the fact that my nurse had fled to the north, and my leader to the east, they appeared in the same caravan, to the northwest, where I had attacked from.

Now, I got a message about my downed wolf being able to rejoin my caravan, if I waited. So, I figured I'd try it. An hour later my nurse goes down. What I thought had been bruises, were knife cuts. What I needed, was a temporary "encounter" to fix these wounds, or perhaps a way to do it from the world map screen. So, I was forced to settle right next to the pirate base, to get this fixed. Shortly upon arrival, I was notified that my leader's bonded arctic wolf had died. (The message about animals rejoining should probably be worded differently) Now, I quickly bandaged up, proceeded to hunt some monkeys, built a butcher's table (really, I could do with some field stripping of meat from animals, trade off is a little less meat but just a crafting spot required) and butchered them all up. Then, packed up and ready to go again. Everyone's in a bad mood, but they are fed for the moment, we have a rough idea that it will take a year to get to our friendly AI. We've got 12 days of food, and no towns to speak of close by for trade, if we had something worth trading, 2 seasons is the best guess, quite a bit of it is jungle.

It looks like we will have to settle again, unless we run into a wandering trader. (12th of fall) Winter, on the 5th we had to stop after a brief encounter with a ragged hungry trader and likely settle in for what is looking like a desperate winter, if not a cold one.

The winter ends up not being cold enough to worry my colonists, and I continue to produce food, and stone, to build a more protected base in the immediate. After securing a decent micro base, and building up supplies, I began my trek again, this time with 30 days worth of food.

I got a short distance from my abandoned base, when I encountered a man-hunting rhino. He made short work of my leader, breaking bones, but not bleeding. I attempted to rescue my leader with my nurse was gored to death. Leaving me with just my rich explorer, with a busted up jaw and right leg, femur; but healing.

With what I imagine was a surge of adrenaline, my leader gets up, grabs her charge rifle, and shoots the rhino multiple times, before getting downed yet again, this time with a minor bleeding wound. The rhino, dies after a few hours, causing a victory. With my leader on the ground, trying to recover, the auto victory" made me leave within 24 hours, leaving ALL of my supplies and weapons apparently behind. Malnutrition subsequently killed my faction leader, because I was unable to move, nor gather my supplies before "reforming" the caravan; leading me to finish this game, with 1 year, estimated, before I would have arrived at the friendly AI.

(Apologies that I did not take the time to "clean" this post up, I wanted to post it up, before I left today.)

Thanks Makken, sounds like an intriguing yarn :)

How do I find my base on the world map?

Quote from: shigimoru on December 17, 2016, 12:35:08 PM
How do I find my base on the world map?

Right click your people at screen top.

My first sea ice colony went... well...

With absolutely no resources, I immediately tried to make a small steel colony and rush hydroponics. That seemed to be going well, but I didn't have enough steel to build all the hydroponics I needed. Then I had a rare thrumbos arrive at the same time as a raid. I tried to attack the thrumbos and lure him into the raid to kill two birds with one stone, but raiders just decided to steal things and leave before the thrumbos reached him. I only had one survivor, but eventually he fully-healed while the thrumbos bled to death. I'm currently trying to give him enough food & clothes to survive a trek off the sea ice and towards someplace more... temperate.

As a sidenote, is the difficulty affecting what traits colonists have now? This is the 2nd Intense game I've had where only 1 colonist out of 6 could Haul/Clean.

I've been playing intense (randy) consistently throughout A16 stuff and haven't gotten more than the typical 1/3 or so with hauling / cleaning issues. Probably just the RNG gods messing with you.

the backstory test subject - test subject  afeeba (feeb) dafo has +3 medicine as adult, but doctoring disabled.

btw, I know I said this before, but has anyone thought the flammability aspect of chem fuel is a bit..oddly low?...yes, I'm bringing that up again, sorry, But I cant help but notice this, especially after a boomalope exploded a wooden shed filled with it, and there wasn't a massive problem caused by it, meanwhile a mortar hitting my artillery round storage made a crater, and killed 2 guys. punched a hole in my base. For those unaware, chemfuel has a flammability of 100%, same as bodies, cloth, ect... And I would expect it would explode like a combination of mortar shells and inferno cannons. And I'd honestly rather not wait for a17 for that, if It can be helped.. but I don't realize how complex this would be. So if its simply unrealistic to code/ balance in a day or 2 well...I guess I understand. But Ill be damned if its not kinda glaring issue to immersion when firefighting a room full of jet-fuel is a 1 man job, and low risk.

Speaking of mortar rounds, it seems if the mortar shell is destroyed by an explosion, or series of explosions fast enough, it will not actually go off, it wont have a sympathetic detonation, but will simply despawn.

yeah i support this, make fuel explodable when fire hits it.
or maybe not an explosion (cause that would be nearly the same as a landmine)
but maybe make it when fire hits the fuel, fire will spread 3-5 tiles far in an instant.

Honestly, you could make it a "burn" element explosion with low damage, but spreading fire and fuel puddles similar to the inferno cannon, and combine with the scaling size of the mortar shell stacks (fun fact, 25 mortar shells explode with more force than 1!) To make a pretty interesting dynamic, where an entire warehouse storage of fuel could go up in an inferno if not careful.

And unless its a HUGE stack of fuel, the explosion would be mostly survivable, but large quantities, several full stacks?.. ..well...better pray you made firefoam poppers before  :D

I don't think this is intended, but if you set up a caravan, then cancel it after they gather their supplies but before they leave the map, the colonists keep the supplies in their inventory. I've been... "using" it to have my sole survivor carry 25 fine meals on him. And he can still haul a full load of steel while carrying them.

could you introduce a "whats new!" function to the game menu screen?

Just wondering if a colonist who's both kind with an annoying voice is supposed to have people beat the piss out of them for complimenting someone. It seems like a bug, but seeing the rest of the game. Felt like this was something to pass on to Ty!

Weapons are now worth 20% of their base value to traders right?  Raids are based off of the collective value of stuff you have as well right?  Therefore because weapons are garbage for sell value, but calculated at 100% of value for raid scaling, the best thing you can do is to destroy any and all weapons you aren't going to use. This is because keeping them to sell them is completely not worth the risk vs reward.  To fix this it might be better to just lower the base value of the weapons to 20% of their current value, and then mark UP the buy cost from traders.  Otherwise I am going to be stockpiling excess weapons to set them on fire or destroy them with grenades and I could be wrong but I feel like you might consider that undesirable player behavior. 

You can smelt excess weapons to recover some materials if I recall correctly.

Also, and I don't know how I didn't notice this before, darkness no longer penalises shooting accuracy. To be honest, I don't miss that penalty, but I must have missed a change log or something, because I don't know why I didn't see it until now.

I was surprised to see fuel doesnt explode and cause massive damage. It doesnt punish someone for leaving it around like shells do. They should start fires really quickly and spread. Raiders should also try to hit them maybe? That would be cool.

Either way I am really liking this update. More world events are needed, but my favorite event is when your caravan is attacked. Some of the areas generated to fight on are so cool. I had this one battle where we camped out in some ruins and mowed down a bunch of melees. Super cool!

So my struggling colony (just a single building) got hit with a Toxic Fallout event. I decided to just gather everything I had, abandon it, and resettle a single tile over to see if I would still have a Toxic Fallout event. Just a single tile over, no Toxic Fallout! I imagine you can use the same trick on the Volcanic Winter.

I think the global events (Toxic Fallout, Volcanic Winter, ???) should affect multiple tiles (and perhaps any caravans currently out, although that might make Toxic Fallout OP).

Cant check the world/seed information when clicking on the World button anymore. :(

started a game got a raid immidiately (randy random on some challange) then like 5 mins after got another raid, also for some reason my food depleted really fast and had a horrible time keeping them replenished managed to last until automn, events seem REALLY raid heavy

how about positive world events, like every now and then you get a caravan of supplies for free from neibouring settlements/factions, simmilarly pirates/raiders could come demanding protection money in the form of x value total of goods and they have a 50/50 chance to actually come and help against raids or not, come and give supplies you need if your compeltely out or unprepared like food steel wood herbel medicine or components or simply come and harrass you  even if you pay or give you a slave/ extra personell under the terms that you ramp up production on something valuable like drugs or something

A pawn has a "shot off" part that always says that needs treatment on the tooltip on mouse hover. The shot off was ages ago and obviously its not bleeding. It might be a small bug. Idk if it happens with other "grey" parts.

RE: Forming caravans. It'd be really nice to be able to predict travel time before committing to form the caravan. In a normal game you can work around this by forming the caravan, checking the travel time, then reloading, but on permadeath mode you've essentially lost a full day if you do this. I guess if you just used a single pawn to check the ETA you could explain it away as 'scouting' time, but it doesn't feel right.

RE: Prisoners in caravans: It would be nice to get health alerts about the prisoners. I had a prisoner die from frostbite without any warning whatsoever. This was particularly awkward, as apparently he was carrying all the gold and most of the food...

RE: Deaths in caravans: It would be nice to have an opportunity to choose which items the caravan continues with after a death. Currently it appears to be that we automatically lose whatever the dead pawn happened to be carrying - which can be catastrophic (and grossly unrealistic) if they happened to be carrying all the food. Perhaps a death should be followed up by an inventory dialog analgous to the 'split caravan' dialog. Or (even better, IMO), the caravan could automatically form a (temporary) new 'colony' (complete with deceased pawn and their items), so the player can decide precisely how to respond to the situation (and can bury their dead, or even carry them home!)

I've been really enjoying the caravans. My current tribal colony has (unintentionally) become entirely nomadic, slowly making their way south, stopping frequently to warm up and forage for food (as there is neither sufficient food nor fuel to last them through winter in any given map cell.) Which has been great fun! But I have felt like I've been fighting against the interface RE: prisoners, inventory, and travel time.

Someone said in the steam forum that thrumbos dont increase caravan capacity and I have read here that its not very well stated which animals can carry things in the caravan. I havent tried caravans but I would like that it was easy to understand, which animals to use.
Maybe make that all animals that can haul be part of the carrying caravan?

Quote from: mumblemumble on December 17, 2016, 04:44:37 PM
the backstory test subject - test subject  afeeba (feeb) dafo has +3 medicine as adult, but doctoring disabled.

btw, I know I said this before, but has anyone thought the flammability aspect of chem fuel is a bit..oddly low?...yes, I'm bringing that up again, sorry, But I cant help but notice this, especially after a boomalope exploded a wooden shed filled with it, and there wasn't a massive problem caused by it, meanwhile a mortar hitting my artillery round storage made a crater, and killed 2 guys. punched a hole in my base. For those unaware, chemfuel has a flammability of 100%, same as bodies, cloth, ect... And I would expect it would explode like a combination of mortar shells and inferno cannons. And I'd honestly rather not wait for a17 for that, if It can be helped.. but I don't realize how complex this would be. So if its simply unrealistic to code/ balance in a day or 2 well...I guess I understand. But Ill be damned if its not kinda glaring issue to immersion when firefighting a room full of jet-fuel is a 1 man job, and low risk.

Speaking of mortar rounds, it seems if the mortar shell is destroyed by an explosion, or series of explosions fast enough, it will not actually go off, it wont have a sympathetic detonation, but will simply despawn.

I would like to imagine that your character, Feeb has the potential to be a doctor, but does not want go down that road. You can look at it from that perspective.

I'm not going to get started on that fire, chemicals and explosion debate. We will be talking for days. I think things should be reworked, but we probably won't see anything until A17.

Sorry for the offtopic, but can I continue my test colony after the release? Will saves be compatible?

QuoteIf you're willing to play with bugs and imbalances, and to have your saves broken randomly and without warning, you can now test the unstable version of Alpha 16!

You are a liar! There are no bugs. You promised me gamebreaking bugs. And after 7 hours of playtime i did not find any ;-(

My Feedback:
- I love the trade-balance! It just feels natural.
- I like the changed balance regarding producing weapons (especially the work-time) and clothing. Feels more balanced and natural now.

- I am still neutral / slightly unhappy with the taming percentages. You could increase them by relative (!) 50-100% and it would feel much less tedious. No more thann 100% though.

- New Science tree looks ok. I tried a bigger UI and the lines hide behind the signs often. Is it dynamically created?

- Chemfuel does not explode while burning?

- Caravans need more (mouseover)-information ingame.

Edit: Sorry after reviewing my notes i found one thing: After changing the UI Scale my resolution changed frp 2550x1440 to 15xx something. I could change i back without problems though.

havent read through comments, so this might have been mentioned already:

when sending out a caravan, i'd like there to be an option to "return to origin" and maybe a warning of "50% of food spend, need to turn back"

I just started a game in a very hot (125F average) tropical jungle, and the map spawned with no animals on it. Absolutely none. It is a plant-only rainforest. Is this working as intended? Or an oversight in the animal spawning rules?

If you play to win instead of pretending to play sim city, is there any point at forming caravans/raiding and expanding your colony instead of just rushing the spaceship? Because currently I don't see an incentive to do so, and self imposed goals and challenges are not my thing.
Building the spaceship and winning is much easier than anything else. And by the time I've build the spaceship I am burned out on that playthrough anyway

There is no strong incentive to raid nearby pirates' camps or to form caravans/outposts to develop trading. But, you can.  We've just a whole new world/game balance to explore, a whole economy to work on, i've no doubt Tynan has/will have plans for the easy part (end game).

Pemmican, as a trading good, is just as strong if not slightly stronger than it was in A15 (based on my quick foodstuff -> bionics conversion math [A15= 550:1, A16= 525:1 @Intense]). Given that you no longer need to spend silver to call in traders (just send a pemmican-fueled one yourself), it's quite possible this is an overpowered strategy, although I'll need to spend another day or two with it to be sure.

The one thing working against this is the temperature de-buff to the stove-in-freezer setup, but even that isn't slowing things too much.

Pemmican is also comparable to silver in value per weight, so a caravan full of pemmican converts nicely to a caravan full of silver. I can't help feeling we should just convert to a pemmican-based economy.

----

Also, I saw a muffalo eat entire fully-grown cactus. Is that intentional?

----

It's fairly easy to miss the notification that a caravan has arrived at its destination (I assume there's an accompanying sound as well, which I don't hear with the volume shut off). I'd prefer it if there was some persistent visual cue that you have a caravan awaiting further instructions. Either the clock (L) idling symbol on all of your caravan member's portraits, or convert the 'your caravan has arrived' thing into a yellow / blue card like the current initial "caravan ready" card.

I don't particular like the idea my colonists could ultimately starve to death because I didn't see a small, 5 second notification.

I think your own caravans can be ambushed though, so there's some risk there compared to calling them.  Although if you just base immediately next to an outlander town maybe there isn't any risk of ambush.  Basing adjacent to outlanders should carry some risk anyway since it makes the travel time really short, maybe if there were more numerous factions and more faction standing randomization it would help.   As it stands currently it's very likely that they will be friendly.  Perhaps you could potentially show up and they could be under attack themselves, or starving, or they could tell you they just spent all their silver on an orbital trader. 

Just updated to 0.16.1391, with some critical fixes.

Thanks for the ongoing feedback. We're not going to address everything for A16 but we will take everything into account eventually.

Can we please have an option to set when a caravan is resting? I just had my pawn die, because rescue team stopped to rest.

i've run across a few issues:
1)
While i had a caravan traveling through a large stretch of arid shrublands, everyone got downed by heatstroke and the caravan was stopped with no way i can tell to get them back and going again?
2)
attacks on my caravan ( 3 melee tribal and 2 dromedaries ) seem to always be unbeatable,
This is probably just because i'm sending out caravans too early in the game, but yeah.
3)
My caravan seems to like resting for the night right before they arrive at there destination, this is probably just a product of chance, but it can be a tad annoying.

About luciferium, it seems too bad to be used now. My idea is to increase manipulation to 10% and move speed to 10%, from the current 5%.

What do you think?

I have tried ice sea starts with relatively managable temperature (avg. -30 C°) on extreme Phoebe, with the default scenario.

I continue to find it annoying how one must be very picky when choosing colonists for such a start. "Incapable of " hauling or fighting, or anything that increases chance to have a mental breakdown makes a colonist totally unsuitable. The trait system would be more interesting if traits were not strictly negative or positive but more nuanced (like the psychopath trait having both a negative and positive effect). There are also too many old and sick colonists with the default settings.

Importing building materials on an ice sea start is a challenge. I quickly realised that one must start right next to a friendly trade partner due to the very low carrying capacity of colonists. Food can be sort of managed (seemingly) by rushing hydroponics, killing off the pet, enslaving one of your colonists and selling them for food. I can't remember how much steel a colonist can carry per trip, but I think it's about 50.

Also when I take slaves to a trade trip, I get the message that they can't reach the exit (or something along those lines), but everything seems to work regardless.

When planning to send a caravan, I would also like to know whether my colonists are sufficiently protected from cold or heat to make it till the end. The character gear menu tells me about the comfortable temperature range (-14 C° to 32 C° for one of my colonists), but will anything below -14 C° cause physical harm or merely unhappy thoughts?

Personally, I'm currently not liking the sea ice starts. It's extremely hard, yeah, but the complete lack of minerals and animals also makes it utterly boring. It's essentially building on a blank map.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Personally, I'm currently not liking the sea ice starts. It's extremely hard, yeah, but the complete lack of minerals and animals also makes it utterly boring. It's essentially building on a blank map.

I heard that Tynan said that the biome wasn't meant as an extreme challenge as much as it was a stop when travelling around the northern poles. Ain't gonna stop me, though.

After the last version update i have a blurry screen while moving the camera on triple Speed.
It was not that before.

BUT Performance is nice, my screen is blurry but i have no mini stutterlags on my pawns.
Everything is moving in a flow. (many pawns + animals)

Quote from: newcadence on December 18, 2016, 01:40:20 PM

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Personally, I'm currently not liking the sea ice starts. It's extremely hard, yeah, but the complete lack of minerals and animals also makes it utterly boring. It's essentially building on a blank map.

I heard that Tynan said that the biome wasn't meant as an extreme challenge as much as it was a stop when travelling around the northern poles. Ain't gonna stop me, though.

Got a link to his statement saying that? Or can Tynan himself confirm the Sea Ice biome isn't actually meant to basebuild on?

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 02:15:56 PM

Quote from: newcadence on December 18, 2016, 01:40:20 PM
I heard that Tynan said that the biome wasn't meant as an extreme challenge as much as it was a stop when travelling around the northern poles. Ain't gonna stop me, though.

Got a link to his statement saying that? Or can Tynan himself confirm the Sea Ice biome isn't actually meant to basebuild on?

Here is a quote by Tynan regarding this (from reddit)

Tynan - "I don't think it's really possible to survive here, it's really there so you can walk over it while going somewhere else."
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/5i1qqt/new_biome_sea_ice_for_the_ridiculously_hardcore/db57npm/

I'm personally not a fan of the debuff from wearing dead men's clothing. Part of the fun of raids (and now raiding) is getting some loot for your colonists from the corpses, and now that is essentially taken away from the game, making raids more of a nuisance than something that is fun and rewarding.

Quote from: Calahan on December 18, 2016, 02:24:10 PM

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 02:15:56 PM

Quote from: newcadence on December 18, 2016, 01:40:20 PM
I heard that Tynan said that the biome wasn't meant as an extreme challenge as much as it was a stop when travelling around the northern poles. Ain't gonna stop me, though.

Got a link to his statement saying that? Or can Tynan himself confirm the Sea Ice biome isn't actually meant to basebuild on?

Here is a quote by Tynan regarding this (from reddit)

Tynan - "I don't think it's really possible to survive here, it's really there so you can walk over it while going somewhere else."
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/5i1qqt/new_biome_sea_ice_for_the_ridiculously_hardcore/db57npm/

Hrm, then should it be possible to select Sea Ice when choosing a random site?

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 10:46:42 AM
Just updated to 0.16.1391, with some critical fixes.

Thanks for the ongoing feedback. We're not going to address everything for A16 but we will take everything into account eventually.

What did you change to the savefiles? The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'. Even the smallest mapsize on a 30% world is over 9MB large; I can't zip it small enough to attach to my posts in the Bugs forums.

Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Maybe you should take a page from doom, and add the text when trying to start "Are you sure you want to choose this? This isn't even remotely fair".

Game definitely need a Supply and demand system...

If my trade partner live in tree biomes, demand should be a really low for wood logs.

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

Early on, the starting save-file was 2MB tops, in the latest version it's 13MB. (Alpha 16).
There is absolutely no change in the size for the saves between the last versions and the one prior to it though. At least not for late-game.

Speaking of savegames, I heard some rumours about extra pawn data being saved that wasn't needed? Which slows the game down? Has this been addressed in A16? If not, how do we deal with it manually?

Also, is uranium supposed to be this rare? I can hardly find it anywhere. It would be completely pointless to even consider making weapons out of it currently. Not to mention the other uses for it.

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 18, 2016, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

Early on, the starting save-file was 2MB tops, in the latest version it's 13MB. (Alpha 16).
There is absolutely no change in the size for the saves between the last versions and the one prior to it though. At least not for late-game.

Okay, so when was "early on"? What are "the last versions"? Can you please state some version numbers?

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 06:05:39 PM

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 18, 2016, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

Early on, the starting save-file was 2MB tops, in the latest version it's 13MB. (Alpha 16).
There is absolutely no change in the size for the saves between the last versions and the one prior to it though. At least not for late-game.

Sorry for the absolute shitload of edit\updates on this one, I've done some more testing, and it seems that it's simply the vegetation that causes the save-files to get so huge. On an icesheet map, it's the same save-file as it was before.

MikeLemmer, could you specify what maps the savegames you had issues with were on?

Edit: Last edit on this one, I swear: The size difference between an icesheet map and a temperate map is absolutely massive. On an icesheet, you'll typically have 32-35 000 lines in the savegame. On a temperate map, due to the vegetation, that number is 10 times that. averaging at around 350 000 lines.
This is due to every plant in the game, requiring this bit of code:

<thing Class="Plant">
                  <def>PlantGrass</def>
                  <id>PlantGrass32574</id>
                  <map>0</map>
                  <pos>(91, 0, 103)</pos>
                  <health>85</health>
                  <growth>0.8320659</growth>
                  <age>897560</age>
               </thing>

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

No, the previous A16 unstable builds. They've gotten so big I can't even zip the smallest mapsizes below the forums' 600kb attachment limit. I've added a screenshot of my Save folder for the unstable versions for reference. The smallest world/map size is now on par with previous versions' 100% world/normal mapsize saves, and the current 100%/large save is larger than my previous 100%/ludeonicrous saves.

Admittedly, it wouldn't be much of a problem, except it now means I can't attach any zipped savefiles to bug report posts without uploading them to a 3rd-party file hoster.



[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 07:31:46 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

No, the previous A16 unstable builds. They've gotten so big I can't even zip the smallest mapsizes below the forums' 600kb attachment limit. I've added a screenshot of my Save folder for the unstable versions for reference. The smallest world/map size is now on par with previous versions' 100% world/normal mapsize saves, and the current 100%/large save is larger than my previous 100%/ludeonicrous saves.

Admittedly, it wouldn't be much of a problem, except it now means I can't attach any zipped savefiles to bug report posts without uploading them to a 3rd-party file hoster.

As ReZ discussed, it's likely just different biomes with different densities of objects to save.

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 07:34:01 PM
As ReZ discussed, it's likely just different biomes with different densities of objects to save.

Yeah, I just did a tundra save and that seems to be more similar to previous builds' size; I did have a string of cold biomes, but normally I try to randomize starts as much as possible for testing. Regardless, it still means the savefiles are too large to zip-attach to bug reports. Can you increase the Bug subforum's attachment size limit?

When i tried to assemble a caravan in the latest update the pawns never paused to stock it to get some sleep and food thus turning them insane with a mental break. Would be lovely if they had any kind of self preservation instincts kick in :P.

And now when i got everything researched it would be nice if it was given some purpose outside its namesake... Faster component creation maybe?

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 07:31:46 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 18, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
The v1391 savefiles are much larger than previous versions'.

Which previous versions? Alpha 15?

No, the previous A16 unstable builds. They've gotten so big I can't even zip the smallest mapsizes below the forums' 600kb attachment limit. I've added a screenshot of my Save folder for the unstable versions for reference. The smallest world/map size is now on par with previous versions' 100% world/normal mapsize saves, and the current 100%/large save is larger than my previous 100%/ludeonicrous saves.

Admittedly, it wouldn't be much of a problem, except it now means I can't attach any zipped savefiles to bug report posts without uploading them to a 3rd-party file hoster.

I find I can no longer use the default windows algorithm, but 7Zip compresses down to ~450 KB, which attaches quite fine.

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Players will assume that it's designed as challenge since it's possible to start a colony there.

It's technically possible to build a colony at the polar icecaps. The main issue is of course the cold, so you'll need some (a lot of) luck to survive it. Basically, it depends on the temperatures, amount of useful drops, and amount of orbital traders you get.
You won't get any caravans stopping by due to the temperatures, so orbital is the only way to get resources.
With the exception of the tribal start, all the starting types have enough resources to set up a starting-base with hydroponics.

Quote from: ReZpawner on December 19, 2016, 04:05:30 AM
It's technically possible to build a colony at the polar icecaps. The main issue is of course the cold, so you'll need some (a lot of) luck to survive it. Basically, it depends on the temperatures, amount of useful drops, and amount of orbital traders you get.
You won't get any caravans stopping by due to the temperatures, so orbital is the only way to get resources.
With the exception of the tribal start, all the starting types have enough resources to set up a starting-base with hydroponics.

That's the spirit! Always look for possibilities.

Quote from: Polder on December 19, 2016, 03:59:12 AM

Quote from: Tynan on December 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Don't try to build a colony on sea ice. It's absolutely not intended or designed for that.

Players will assume that it's designed as challenge since it's possible to start a colony there.

Watch people complain about it. There should be a notification saying" it's near impossible to live here" when choosing to land there

colonist or prisoners equipped with gears which make them comfortable to -50' still  they get slept in the cold mood debuff at -4' why is it happening.

The sleptincold thought seems to only care about the pawns stats not his adjusted stats based on what hes wearing. Is that correct, technically he still slept in the cold he just wasnt cold while sleeping...Tynan?

Quote from: deepSeaKing on December 19, 2016, 06:00:05 AM
colonist or prisoners equipped with gears which make them comfortable to -50' still  they get slept in the cold mood debuff at -4' why is it happening.

Balance to make a warmed up bedroom better then one that is not. Assume they prefer to sleep without all those clothes on.

This was implemented a couple of alphas ago, and is working as intended.

Quote from: Andy_Dandy on December 19, 2016, 07:06:40 AM

Quote from: deepSeaKing on December 19, 2016, 06:00:05 AM
colonist or prisoners equipped with gears which make them comfortable to -50' still  they get slept in the cold mood debuff at -4' why is it happening.

Balance to make a warmed up bedroom better then one that is not. Assume they prefer to sleep without all those clothes on.

This was implemented a couple of alphas ago, and is working as intended.

ok i got the point, but now that colonist get debuff from wearing clothes from dead raiders so the only way of getting worm clothes is to make them or from traders so maybe now that getting worm cloth is not that easy it would be fine for them to not getting any negative even in cold. this is what i think.. i could be wrong though

I've just uploaded release candidate 4, hopefully this will turn out to be the last one! Just some essential bugfixes (it's too late for anything else).

just a few thoughts so far.

- Love this update!
- would be very useful to know the distance or travel time to any point or colony on the map without having to assemble a caravan.
- i formed a caravan during a toxic fallout and sent them out for weeks with no affect. toxic fallout should affect the whole planet at once - or at least huge sections of it - including when your caravan is traveling and adjacent tiles if choosing to settle, trade or attack. you could even go as far as creating a visual discolouration of affected hexagons.
- speaking of hexagons, hexagonal world tiles and square settlement tiles don't add up. i know this is probably a huge change to ask for, but could you change the settlements' shapes to match the world map?
- the saddlebags over the muffalos' backs should be something that needs to be crafted, if for no other reason than immersion. if there's going to be a visual of a colonist going to get it and putting it on the muffalo, it should come from somewhere. could be an easy addition to the tailor and could be a nice way to use up some small amounts of leather that often end up just lying around until they can be traded away.

that's all for now in my limited playtime so far. thanks for all of your hard work!

it would be extremely useful if the tooltip for the Research speed factor showed the variables to that number. without it we're just left guessing.

i'd also love a hotkey using the "i" key to open the "i" menu. i use it often enough that it's probably my most desired hotkey, although i'm sure hotkeys must be one of the last things that goes into a release like this one.

Quote from: alxddd on December 19, 2016, 10:12:10 AM
- would be very useful to know the distance or travel time to any point or colony on the map without having to assemble a caravan.
- i formed a caravan during a toxic fallout and sent them out for weeks with no affect. toxic fallout should affect the whole planet at once - or at least huge sections of it - including when your caravan is traveling and adjacent tiles if choosing to settle, trade or attack. you could even go as far as creating a visual discolouration of affected hexagons.

These. I like you can just pack up and leave during a fallout, but it shouldn't be so easy.

Quote from: alxddd on December 19, 2016, 10:41:23 AM
it would be extremely useful if the tooltip for the Research speed factor showed the variables to that number. without it we're just left guessing.

i'd also love a hotkey using the "i" key to open the "i" menu. i use it often enough that it's probably my most desired hotkey, although i'm sure hotkeys must be one of the last things that goes into a release like this one.

In the information menu in the "i", if you click on any stat it will give you the info.

@Tynan,

Amazing new Alpha (even though it still being the unstable launch)
I do however have a question regarding transport pods.

So I finally, after a few hours of playing, got a transport pod launched to a nearby settlement to trade, the fuel would be enough to get there and back. (just to try it out)
Here was my problem: I didn't know it was a 1 way trip pod.
Here I am, stuck at a nearby settlement without enough $$$ to buy enough food to travel back, on foot!

Is there a way to "re-use" the pods?

@makkenhoff, awesome story, loved it!

Tynan, I don't know if someone mentioned it, but pack muffalos can't interact with more than one colonists at the time, but multiple colonists, though, try to load the stuff they want to load. So one of them succeeds, but the others do not and they return the stuff back to stockpiles and, maybe, do some mental check in their heads like they already loaded those things, so they won't touch it again.

As the result, half of the baggage isn't loaded, while caravans are being created. It can be avoided by using only one colonist to pack things, but it's very long process and very unethical.

And, also, it's very annoying that muffalos can't be packed while being in stockpiles. I understand why you scripted them to drop things when entering player's stockpiles, but in practice it gives more harm than advantage. Can be easily fixed by creating a new command, like, "Unload" or something, so you can unload muffalos whenever you want.

UPD. I guess, I misunderstood. They don't unload automatically when in stockpile. Though, the first problem still persists.

I hope my feedback helps.

P.S. For now gonna use dev's "Send instantly" command, since I don't have any other alternatives.

Quote from: Jettuh on December 19, 2016, 11:49:58 AM
@Tynan,

Amazing new Alpha (even though it still being the unstable launch)
I do however have a question regarding transport pods.

So I finally, after a few hours of playing, got a transport pod launched to a nearby settlement to trade, the fuel would be enough to get there and back. (just to try it out)
Here was my problem: I didn't know it was a 1 way trip pod.
Here I am, stuck at a nearby settlement without enough $$$ to buy enough food to travel back, on foot!

Is there a way to "re-use" the pods?

@makkenhoff, awesome story, loved it!

You can pod enough resources in a second pod to build a third pod for the return trip.

Quote from: TOWC on December 19, 2016, 12:36:56 PM
Tynan, I don't know if someone mentioned it, but pack muffalos can't interact with more than one colonists at the time, but multiple colonists, though, try to load the stuff they want to load. So one of them succeeds, but the others do not and they return the stuff back to stockpiles and, maybe, do some mental check in their heads like they already loaded those things, so they won't touch it again.

As the result, half of the baggage isn't loaded, while caravans are being created. It can be avoided by using only one colonist to pack things, but it's very long process and very unethical.

Whoa! Thanks for bringing this up. Pretty important thing to mention there!

Does the percentage of globe coverage impact the gameplay (raiders, traders) and the performance?

When raiding a colony i think it would be enough to generate a medium or small map size, because most of the time you will leave after the 24 hour period.
Maybe this size could be in the options.
Now it uses the settings from the start.

I think it would be nice to automatically get the caravanscreen to select what you would like to take after the 24 hours after raiding a colony, now you get just thrown out of the tile.

Overall i think A16 is great and opens a new world of possibilities.

The problem with map % generation is that you are pretty much forced to set around the middle. If you place your base around the edges everything will be far from you.

unlikely for a16 but maybe change the % to alter the planet size rather than the size of the playable section of the planet?

Hopefully this isn't something that has already been addressed and I missed it.
However merging the construction and repair has resulting in a lot more micromanagement in my experience. After a raid i'm much more interested in having my colonists build new walls to fill the holes in my walls than I am having them repair every wall section that took a bullet. As a result i'm constantly overriding them as they try to repair instead of build.

Quote from: Tynan on December 19, 2016, 01:12:38 PM

Quote from: TOWC on December 19, 2016, 12:36:56 PM
Tynan, I don't know if someone mentioned it, but pack muffalos can't interact with more than one colonists at the time, but multiple colonists, though, try to load the stuff they want to load. So one of them succeeds, but the others do not and they return the stuff back to stockpiles and, maybe, do some mental check in their heads like they already loaded those things, so they won't touch it again.

As the result, half of the baggage isn't loaded, while caravans are being created. It can be avoided by using only one colonist to pack things, but it's very long process and very unethical.

Whoa! Thanks for bringing this up. Pretty important thing to mention there!

I'm glad it helped. Though, I also want to mention, that it's very hard to loot raided outposts right now. Mostly, because you must choose all the things one by one through right-click command. It just takes too much time and unneeded microcontrol. It would be much better if there would exist an extra command, which would mark the needed loot like, for example, command "Cut plants" marks cuttable plants when choosing an area of command.

No, really, it's VERY hard, I don't think I'm the only one.

UPD. Though, you can create stockpile and haul all the loot here and then right-click it from here. Still, too much unneeded clicks, imho.

Has anything changed with surgery probabilities? I have a level 15 doctor, who always does surgery not drunk and not stoned etc, and has no injuries himself, yet I swear his failure rate is about 50% or so... (in about 10-15 operations).

Quote from: TOWC on December 19, 2016, 02:26:58 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 19, 2016, 01:12:38 PM

Quote from: TOWC on December 19, 2016, 12:36:56 PM
Tynan, I don't know if someone mentioned it, but pack muffalos can't interact with more than one colonists at the time, but multiple colonists, though, try to load the stuff they want to load. So one of them succeeds, but the others do not and they return the stuff back to stockpiles and, maybe, do some mental check in their heads like they already loaded those things, so they won't touch it again.

As the result, half of the baggage isn't loaded, while caravans are being created. It can be avoided by using only one colonist to pack things, but it's very long process and very unethical.

Whoa! Thanks for bringing this up. Pretty important thing to mention there!

I'm glad it helped. Though, I also want to mention, that it's very hard to loot raided outposts right now. Mostly, because you must choose all the things one by one through right-click command. It just takes too much time and unneeded microcontrol. It would be much better if there would exist an extra command, which would mark the needed loot like, for example, command "Cut plants" marks cuttable plants when choosing an area of command.

No, really, it's VERY hard, I don't think I'm the only one.

UPD. Though, you can create stockpile and haul all the loot here and then right-click it from here. Still, too much unneeded clicks, imho.

I've just uploaded a build with a fix to the issue, please feel free to test and tell me if it works now!

Quote from: kamenoitte on December 19, 2016, 02:51:55 PM
Has anything changed with surgery probabilities? I have a level 15 doctor, who always does surgery not drunk and not stoned etc, and has no injuries himself, yet I swear his failure rate is about 50% or so... (in about 10-15 operations).

Medicine potency overall is lowered, especially for herbal medicine and regular medicine. Glitterworld stuff is still high.

1) Mini-fied furniture have uniform masses despite being made of things of vastly differing densities.

2) Pod Launchers are have flammability = 0% despite being made of steel (flammable), components (flammable) and varying amounts of fuel (VERY flammable).

3) So far the amount of glitterworld meds I've seen available for sale at outlander bases hasn't been enough to keep up with the supply of bionics. And in general, the bases have way too much silver relative to the amount of goods they actually sell. I keep having to walk away from bases with 1000s of silver, because the bases simply don't have anything worth buying.

4) Caravan speed appears to be determined by the average of all members instead of the slowest. Adding some faster units to a caravan speeds it up, even if they aren't helping to carry any of the load. Haven't tested it, but adding a few squirrels / rabbits to a caravan shouldn't make it go significantly faster.

5) Drug labs don't use electricity or fuel. Good luck trying to do much real life chemistry without so much as a hotplate or burner (or chiller, or mixer, or centrifuge, or exhaust system, or various chemical analysis instruments).

Quote from: Tynan on December 19, 2016, 03:04:33 PM
I've just uploaded a build with a fix to the issue, please feel free to test and tell me if it works now!

Yep, packing now works perfectly. Tho, looting is still hard, I hope that you will look into this issue in your future builds.

#2 makes some sense; the launcher has to endure the launches so it is presumable constructed in a way that minimizes flammability.

#4 doesn't make sense, but working off of the slowest would be brutally punishing. An injured pawn or an animal birth could easily double summer travel times.

Quote from: TOWC on December 19, 2016, 05:10:45 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 19, 2016, 03:04:33 PM
I've just uploaded a build with a fix to the issue, please feel free to test and tell me if it works now!

Yep, packing now works perfectly. Tho, looting is still hard, I hope that you will look into this issue in your future builds.

Try Reform Caravan.

Quote from: Zhentar on December 19, 2016, 05:13:47 PM
#2 makes some sense; the launcher has to endure the launches so it is presumable constructed in a way that minimizes flammability.

#4 doesn't make sense, but working off of the slowest would be brutally punishing. An injured pawn or an animal birth could easily double summer travel times.

Quote from: TOWC on December 19, 2016, 05:10:45 PM

Quote from: Tynan on December 19, 2016, 03:04:33 PM
I've just uploaded a build with a fix to the issue, please feel free to test and tell me if it works now!

Yep, packing now works perfectly. Tho, looting is still hard, I hope that you will look into this issue in your future builds.

Try Reform Caravan.

Uh, wasn't looking too thoroughly.
Dammit, it works just magnificent! And also removes that stupid "24 hours untill banishment" problem.

Also, there's another annoying issue with caravans. When you travel, you can't treat your wounds at all. So, if you got hurt in a gunfight and you didn't have time to treat yourself, then you, most likely, will bleed out at the world map while trying to get back to your base. Or die from infections. Yeah, time heals, both in philosophycal and practical ways, but it doesn't treat wounds, unfortunately.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 19, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
The problem with map % generation is that you are pretty much forced to set around the middle. If you place your base around the edges everything will be far from you.

I suspect eventually Tynan will put in a way to reveal/explore more of the world as you travel, solving this problem.

#1 Confirmation Before launching a pod to a non-colonized tile, I have sometimes missclicked and sent pods to tiles with no settlements or places I didn't want them to go. Maybe I'm just dumb lol.
#2 Burning Drugs one at a time doesn't make sense, it takes too long and it is pointless. You should be able to at least burn all of them together or at least 10.
#3 Attacking other settlements is not worth it, you don't get much out of it and risk dying. Also some more base layouts would be nice too.
#4 I've created a new colony and it was quite hard in the beginning, my survivors were sad, unconfortable and wanted the luxuries they had at my first base and I couldn't provide everything so they kept going on mentalbreaks. Maybe when people moved to a new colony or settled in a new place they should get an excitement (because they are exploring a new land or something)bonus or maybe Cartharsis to help in the early stages of the new village.
#5 after a lot of trouble to get settled i've played 1 year in the new colony and nothing bad happened. Maybe an easier beginning and a progressive increase in difficulty would be nice for the new settlements. Just like your first one.
#6 After a few hours of gameplay merchants dont bring anything useful or don't have enough money so you can sell them stuff. I just buy components and precious metals which feels pretty boring.
#7 Crafting feels too slow. Only artwork and power armor should be that slow, sometimes it feels its not worth it, specially because some of the guns are really lame.
#8 Guns feel pretty bad, doesnt matter what you do or how much skill you have in shooting. I can't hit for shit, I don't know, maybe with higher skills it should be easier to hit specially with the sniper,bow and survival rifle. It's pretty hard on higher difficulties to fight against a large group of enemies if your defensive position isn't great (by great I mean abusing the enemy AI and using ridiculous choke points), even if you micromanage everything battle still feels dull and not rewarding at all.
#9 Meals should be produced at quantities (5 or 10) or maybe the oven could stay inside the fridge and not get a penalty for being in a cold place. It takes too long to get the food from the fridge to the oven and then back to the fridge, honestly it doesn't make the game feel challenging, it just makes it annoying, specially because the cook won't stop cooking even if you have 50 meals, whenever someone eats a meal he goes back to make more even though you have a decent stock.
#10 It would be nice to go to other tiles to gather resources and hunt only.
#11 More than one person should be allowed to fill the cargo pod, I mean, it doesn't make sense that just one man can haul stuff inside it.
#12 Colonists wont harvest the trees in growing areas and sometimes if I dont do it manually the tree dies and I don't get anything. Also the growing times seem a bit off, Devilstrand should take 10 days to grow but it takes wayy longer than that.
#13 More defensive building would be nice, bunkers, barbed wire, fences, towers etc.
#14 More guns with pros and cons that are clearer. It doesn't matter what gun I use, they always feels the same and unreliable.
#15 Changing difficulty inside the game would be nice too.
#16 The High tech research bench is not showing in the new technology tree.
#17 You should be able to reinstall the deep drill if you don't know what metals are underneath it.
#18 The moisture pump is ridiculously slow, it takes ages to pump the water a small space. It should be faster.
#19 More furniture for decoration would be nice too.
#20 Hauling needs to be more effective, specially when mining. The worker finishes mining and doesn't bring back some of the materials when he heads home.
#21 Drugs still need some balance. I found to be better to leave my village drug free otherwise they will go on mentalbreaks and binges all the time like lunatics. it should be easier to use drugs for recreation.
#22 More Factions would also be nice.

Anyway I think its enough for now, I've played the unstable branch for more than 30 hours and this is what I feel so far. The is going great and has a lot of potential, keep up the great work!

If you replace the limbs of a pawn with bionic limbs (or other artificial parts presumably), the pawn's mass is significantly reduced as game calculates things as though the pawn is still missing body parts.

That's incredibly useful for drop pods that track capacity by mass, but not very realistic.

Artificial limb mass needs to be added in at some point.

Note: the "gear and inventory mass" only includes clothing and a fine meal, I double checked.

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Now that i have played through a full game on A16 unstable i got some final feedback.

• Caravans have no way of treating hurt and\or dying colonists. I had one of my first wanderers die by a heart attack that way.
• Dead colonists in caravans do not give their armor and weapons to the caravan inventory. Quite the oversight in my opinion unless you got a in world reason for that.
• Caravan ambushes should pause the game and switch to that map when it happens. Kinda important event that need to be immediately taken care of.
• Caravans only bringing with them little of a resource like Uranium was a good motivator for me to make my own caravan in order to get all i needed. Would be cool if faction villages had resources that only they can make in order to encourage player caravans.
• Breakdown events happen way too often mid to end game. Constant drain on components which is just annoying.
• The weapon i ended up using the most was the Assault Rifle. Sniper Rifle second. Charge rifle for being so advanced is useless in comparison to those. Could need a Assault Rifle equivalent in my opinion.
• Power armor was nice to have but the wear it takes from being equipped is annoying. For being so hi-tech that is weird.
• The space ship is an actual challenge resource wise now. Had to build TWO Component Assembly tables in order to get enough components in a sane time. My two crafters spent pretty much all day on them :P.
• Elephants and rhinos as pets are the best meatshields you can get!
• I felt i never had enough hay to keep my animals fed. 2000 hay was gone in an instant with even 5 herbivores.
• I ended up never using the Makeshift Turrets in the end. They are too weak for anything but distraction in the beginning. My main force was a wall of lead and mortars to deal with problems.
• I also never ended up using IEDs. Feel like the component cost should go away and instead use 2 artillery shells.
• Was kinda annoying have to rebuild Deep Miners all the time. Is it too much to ask for them to be minifiable?
• My researchers ended up becoming crafters at end game leaving that skill useless. Please, give it some use once there is nothing left to research.

Want to say, launchers should still be flammable. Incendiary launchers or inferno cannons can burn, even though THEY withstand heat...this isn't because they are impervious to heat, but they are engineered to take the heat of FIRING, and not a huge fire. not to mention the storage tank of fuel should be super dangerous around fire.

1) i sent out a caravan without knowing anything and he quickly went out of food. when he was half down his rations i wanted to bring him back, but i did not find any way to "return to colony"
2) so i did set up camp in middle of nowhere. i thought that i cuold again make a caravan to send him back after he gathered some food, but it only gave me option to go N/S/E/W/etc but not to return to main colony

by the time i droppoded enough stuff so he could droppod himself back home, he had already got raided and died from infections :(

Quote from: zandadoum on December 20, 2016, 02:31:42 AM
1) i sent out a caravan without knowing anything and he quickly went out of food. when he was half down his rations i wanted to bring him back, but i did not find any way to "return to colony"
2) so i did set up camp in middle of nowhere. i thought that i cuold again make a caravan to send him back after he gathered some food, but it only gave me option to go N/S/E/W/etc but not to return to main colony

by the time i droppoded enough stuff so he could droppod himself back home, he had already got raided and died from infections :(

You just have to click on the colony to go back

I am burning through livers. I like consequences for regular substance use but having multiple colonists get cancer and cirrhosis a few days after buying a shipment of alcohol is a little odd.

For me the cost of components and troubles to get them is just insane. Not challenging-insane but boring and fun-killing insane. Time to make ONE and resources required makes me stuffing several people to constantly make them and buy all steel I can.
After some time I said "fuck it!" and installed cheap components mod. That at least partly removed all this tedious stuff related to them.

Hi. I have one problem with using the muffalo as a pack animal, its the only animal that can do this. I personal think other large animals like cows and elephants should be able to carry things in caravans.   

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 19, 2016, 07:25:20 PM

Quote from: Alenerel on December 19, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
The problem with map % generation is that you are pretty much forced to set around the middle. If you place your base around the edges everything will be far from you.

I suspect eventually Tynan will put in a way to reveal/explore more of the world as you travel, solving this problem.

That would absolutely defeat the whole purpose of choosing the % of map generation which is performance, not exploration.

Okay, thanks for all the feedback everyone, it is invaluable. Alpha 16 is public now.

Obviously I can't cover everything that gets brought up. I did want this build out before Christmas, so there's that. Much of it will be addressed in future builds as well.

Quote from: Alenerel on December 20, 2016, 04:32:02 AM

Quote from: MikeLemmer on December 19, 2016, 07:25:20 PM

Quote from: Alenerel on December 19, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
The problem with map % generation is that you are pretty much forced to set around the middle. If you place your base around the edges everything will be far from you.

I suspect eventually Tynan will put in a way to reveal/explore more of the world as you travel, solving this problem.

That would absolutely defeat the whole purpose of choosing the % of map generation which is performance, not exploration.

It wouldn't. It would generate a small starting area (30%) and slowly expand it if you start exploring, so you aren't confined to just that 30% of the world.

I'm curious what is stopping the player from building a few pods and firing the colonists to the hidden ship location to escape the world, sparing the lengthly caravan trip? I presume there is a mechanic to stop you from that shortcut?

The range of the pod is limited, and the hidden ship at the opposite side of the world. Alternatively, sustaining a series of outposts to "jump pod" to the hidden ship is costly, dangerous, and imo much more tedious than building a ship or forming a single caravan.

I see, thanks for the clarification, that makes sense.

I also assume pirates will continue to arrive via drop pods even if all their bases within the same range have been wiped despite the controversy?

Yep. They will arrive even if you're hidden in the ring of impassable mountains. Same goes for caravans, I guess.

Not exactly a bug but in the planet screen, the random button can choose sea ice. Not very important but... I think that there also should be some kind of warning in that biome. Since it has the same stats as other (rock type).

BTW generating a very cold planet can generate very cold biomes where it seems that raiders could die of hypothermia in their own bases (ice sheet). Havent tested tho, can someone give an insight in this topic?

I have tested it. They do generate with sufficient clothing to survive. (There was a bug with it when I tried it though, it was hilarious watching them all succumb hypothermia before they could reach the map edge)

A couple of things in a16 makes me cringe a little.

Room info and beauty statistic combination is annoying to the eye. Next thing is that the disease and medical procedures statistics of shown directly on the information tab. It takes away the suspense of your success or failure of different operations. I mean the immune of different disease and not the actual procedures of the medical operations.

IDk if this is the right place to post this, but my addicts will not adhere to their drug schedules while on a caravan, even if the caravan has the right drugs (I noticed this when my luciferium raiders bogged the caravan down for days).  The only workaround I could come up with was to allow a second colony, settle, take drugs, then continue.

Thanks for the great game

Quote from: jeffreybar on December 13, 2016, 05:01:15 PM

Quote from: Ashery on December 13, 2016, 04:39:59 AM
Not really a fan of the combined beauty and room stat indicator. The display feels incredibly cluttered regardless of what information I'm looking at and I lose pretty much the entire SW section of the beauty display due to the room stats being displayed on top of it.

I second this feedback.  In pre-Alpha16 playthroughs, I kept the Room Stats display on almost all the time since it's not obtrusive and it's a good way to keep an eye on cleanliness and such, but the Beauty display is very obtrusive by contrast.  I find myself having to keep this combined option turned off all the time unless I really need to check on a room now since it's hard to see what's going on with all the beauty numbers on the ground.  I would much rather these two options be separate again.

Agreed, if you can please seperate these two again. The beauty stat tool i never use, the room stat one I use all the time. Is there another way to display a room name and its basic stats like the old one?

I have played rimworld for 3 alpha versions and have not had a problem, but now with a16, the ui scale has broken the game for me. It no longer fits my laptop screen and automatically scales like it used to. The ui is too big and half the buttons don't fit on the screen and their is no option to fix it. The buttons need to be smaller and there is no scale below 1x which is still too big by a long shot. Hoping a patch can be released of some sort to fix this. I have seen others who have the same problem. Maybe a more in depth ui option scaling system, more customization to fit the player?