Judgement: Apocalypse Survival Simulation.
Check it out.
It's in very early "early access", but it's already quite an interesting and full game.
Not yet rimworld scale, but then again, rimworld is not quite dwarf fortress scale, and it's still a real fun game.
It has 'tactical' combat (with cover, armor/weapons and various trinkets and medkits etc that your guys can equip, all the colony building stuff, research, crafting etc.
While it's not as pure fun as rimworld yet, there are a few areas where I find it superior:
1) has an art style which I find much, much more appealing than rimworld, much more gritty and 'realistic'. Pawns have feet and are fully animated (hand drawn animations which are just sweet), and the graphical style doesn't hide anything from the player. It's at once very beautiful and very usable.
2) Has interesting RPG elements where your pawns level up by practicing/training/doing shit and you can give them unique skills. For example, where in rimworld anyone with crafting can make an assault rifle, in judgement you need to level up, and then specialize your guy in "advanced weapons crafting", before he can build assault rifles. He's more precious now, too, because he's the only guy you got who can make those, probably. I like this a lot over rimworlds simple skill ratings. Pawn specializations.
If added to rimworld it will also slow the progression down a little bit which would be MUCH better.
3) Perhaps this is of special appeal only to me, but I find it superior also in that it's much more stylistically defined. It's a demon apocalypse. Everything looks, feels, and plays that way. You manage a colony, but you do occult research alongside your regular research, you got holy swords and all kinds of bizzare rituals your pawns can do, etc. Everything in the game reinforces the style. The graphics, the music and background 'noise' (spooky shit), etc.
Ramble:
This is actually something I hoped would be more defined in rimworld too, where it's supposed to be somewhat 'wild west in space' or something like that. Playing rimworld I don't feel there's any stylistic direction really. There's a specific graphical style with the way pawns and animals and everything is drawn, but it's not really... a style. It's just very.. pragmatic and serves the gameplay excellently but doesn't evoke any feeling beyond that.
There's nothing 'fantastic' like, I dunno, that last WEIRD level in Half-Life, to make you feel like it's 'in space!' and there's nothing 'western' other than the music either. It's not like you have a "6-shooter" to craft for example. Just a pistol. Pistol. Those are two extreme examples of stylistic direction, perhaps, but Rimworld, to my taste, is exactly in the middle where there's no stylistic direction evident at all.
I saw this not long ago on Steam and thought it looked interesting. The art style reminds me a bit of a game I used to play called Dead State.
It certainly is inexpensive, so that is a plus. I'm curious how far along the "Early Access" is. The reviews appear to be pretty good, even a couple of he negative ones I've read aren't that bad; they just state that "it's Alpha". I'm gonna keep my eye on this one for sure!
Hmmm. Looking at the game, I think I actually prefer the Rimworld graphics. But then I grew up on 8 bit games. I like abstract styling. I also thought Gnomoria looked cute for what that's worth.
You say "realistic graphics" and I hear "my CPU is on fire, where's the extinguisher?"
Quote from: Shurp on December 31, 2016, 11:21:19 PM
Hmmm. Looking at the game, I think I actually prefer the Rimworld graphics. But then I grew up on 8 bit games. I like abstract styling. I also thought Gnomoria looked cute for what that's worth.
You say "realistic graphics" and I hear "my CPU is on fire, where's the extinguisher?"
Hahah, well I'm a minecraft player also so ... "realistic graphics" is mostly "in comparison" :)
The pawns have legs and arms ok? :))
Regarding the style btw, the interface of Judgement is also very stylized. With 'snapshots' of the pawns held by paperclips etc. I really miss those touches in rimworld. SOME stylistic touches, anything!
They're very very effective at evoking the feeling of the setting.
Rimworld is the only 'early access' game I trust. Seen far too many just become abandoned.
And then someone made an apocalyps themed mod for Rimworld...
Quote from: Headshotkill on January 01, 2017, 06:06:59 AM
And then someone made an apocalyps themed mod for Rimworld...
Really? Where?
Quote from: Elixiar on January 01, 2017, 05:25:11 AM
Rimworld is the only 'early access' game I trust. Seen far too many just become abandoned.
Crypt of the Necrodancer panned out, and that started selling in early access.
Srsly, though, I totally agree with you on this point. "Early Access" seems to be a tag put up by lazy developers that say "I've gotten enough money out of this game, and working on it isn't fun anymore... bye!"
Quote from: Lightzy on January 01, 2017, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Headshotkill on January 01, 2017, 06:06:59 AM
And then someone made an apocalyps themed mod for Rimworld...
Really? Where?
I don't know, but judging how Dubwise was able to completly overhaul this game to a Martian colony simulator including airpressure, sanitation and space rockets landing I'm sure someone will sooner or later make an apocalyps overhaul mod.
Quote from: Headshotkill on January 01, 2017, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Lightzy on January 01, 2017, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Headshotkill on January 01, 2017, 06:06:59 AM
And then someone made an apocalyps themed mod for Rimworld...
Really? Where?
I don't know, but judging how Dubswise was able to completly overhaul this game to a Martian colony simulator including airpressure, sanitation and space rockets landing I'm sure someone will sooner or later make an apocalyps overhaul mod.
Well, if those modders also add a completely new art style, legs to pawns, completely new UI, huge improvement to RPG elements with pawns leveling up and acquiring more unique traits and skills which are very game-changing, magic rituals, more equipment slots to carry trinkets/magic items and so on, combat missions off-map to scavenge resources and relics, many of which can't be gotten by simple farming or crafting, etc, then color me impressed!
But seriously, judgement is not a better game than rimworld so you can relax and pull your angry pants back up, fanboy (whoever you are, I'm not addressing anyone specific), but it is better than rimworld in several important areas. That's why I urge everyone to check it out. It's also half the price. It's a good game that has probably copied and learned many things from Rimworld, and I'm pretty sure there are some brilliancies rimworld could adopt.
BTW another thing I like better about Judgement is that it's harsher. In rimworld you have infinity resources at your starting map. In Judgement your starting map isn't good for very long, and you gotta go out to dangerous areas to scavenge more resources. It puts a certain pressure on the player that's real fun. It's less about just playing around with the area building like rimworld is, and much more about harsh survival. Could be even harsher I think. Probably will be harsher next build according to their roadmap.
Also it escapes the "impregnable fortress syndrome" rimworld has by being a bit more restrictive in colony design. I would hazard a guess that they saw this as a problem in rimworld and decided to try and avoid it. Because if you allow the player complete freedom, he will ALWAYS break the game by outwitting the AI. A little less freedom in that case was a very, very good idea.
Then, as you come up with solutions FIRST, you can give the player more freedom while keeping the game challenging and fun.
I played Jugdment for like four hours in hopes it could acutally be at least a little competitive to rimworld and i was really disappointed. Here´s what i remember about the game (you are free to correct me):
- there are only 3 needs, water, food and rest and they are easily satisfied
- there are just a handful of ressources needed for crafting and if i remember correctly they needn´t have to be processed
- to craft food a pawn just scratches his hand anywhere on the map and the food appears (meaning no kitchen)
- ressources dont have to be stored, its just numbers
- the enemy ai is stupid af and can be kite and los exploited
- theres no social interaction between your pawns
- the home map has the size of the smallest rimworld map and is depleted after like 2 hours
- your pawns have no bodyparts hitboxwise, they just lose hp and it regens after a while
- The movement animations are clumsy
- the eventmaps - at least as far as i saw, seem just randomly generated and in no connection to what event is actually happening (eg there are no friendly npcs in a rescue mission)
- On your home map you can build beds, tables and stuff only in what seems to be houses (it looks like a wooden pillar wall) and the ressource cost of those houses alone consumes a big amount of the wood being available on your map.
- there are no mods available
Those points are taken from what i remember about the game, havent touched it for a while and dont know if any of this has been changed. There are some subjective dislikes also (like the ugly ui for research and building), but i don´t want to add all of them at this point. Yet considering the mentioned points, to even suggest the game´s complexity comes even remotely close to rimworld´s is ridiculous.
I saw a couple of vids of this games.
It doesnt even seems to reach to the feet of Rimworld in terms of complexity.
Rimworld graphics is abstract and its better than trying to do graphics of limbs and people just waving their hands to build stuff.
Maybe the developer will add more complexity in the future. But from what see. its not my cup of tea and not in the same league as Rimworld.
Ditto!
Ill try and check it out...tbh, ive been far too engrossed in xcom ufo defense, with openxcom and final mod pack. one of the most interesting game experiences in a while.
Quote from: fizban1978 on January 03, 2017, 09:00:23 AM
I saw a couple of vids of this games.
It doesnt even seems to reach to the feet of Rimworld in terms of complexity.
Rimworld graphics is abstract and its better than trying to do graphics of limbs and people just waving their hands to build stuff.
Maybe the developer will add more complexity in the future. But from what see. its not my cup of tea and not in the same league as Rimworld.
Good lord those are stupid criticisms if I've ever heard any, and also what are they there for? Did you actually read the points I've pointed out in the original post? The things that can be learned from and improved? about style, about... eh.. Guess not. Reading, a tall order.
1) Judgement's been in development less than half the time that rimworld has.
2) ER WHAT. It's better to have everything abstracted than to have good graphics?!
3) Regarding complexity, compare rimworld to dwarf fortress and see where it gets you.
Quote from: Lightzy on January 03, 2017, 01:14:29 PM
2) ER WHAT. It's better to have everything abstracted than to have good graphics?!
Yes, and it's the best point in his post. Graphics is a slippery slope.
Symbolic graphics work, they get the job done and they don't mess with sense of aesthetics too much. You learn that a figure with a head wearing some clothes represents a colonist and are done with it. Sound design in Rimworld is excellent and working pawn sounds are very suggestive, feeding your imagination.
When you make detailed graphics, it appeals to sense of aesthetics. It must be done very well or rubs beauty-sensitive people the wrong way. Stock DooM 3 textures looked very nice and created a sense of a real place. Textures added by modders tended to look amateurish, crude and out of place (lack of proper bump map...). For the same reason, I'm not annoyed by graphics of Ultima IV, but Ultima V irritates me.
(4) http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/b/b4/U4_SkaraBrae.png/revision/latest?cb=20100829130545
(5) http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/8/83/U5_Skara_Brae%282%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20100927124655
In Ultima 5, you have individual torches, chairs, signposts and with the ancient screen resolution and color depth it looks crap. It no longer
looks like a plan. You don't dismiss a map or a floor plan because it looks crap. I'm sure you'd rather have a plan instead of a bad attempt at (semi) realistic drawing.
Put a couple hours in. Did not enjoy it at all. Staggeringly simplistic in comparison. Sure, the character faces look more human, but why are you playing this game at all if that's a dealbreaker for you?
As for comparing this to Dwarf Fortress, that's simply not fair. It's like comparing Contra to Goldeneye. They're both good, but they're not the same at all. Much of DF's difficulty is artificial, in that it comes in the form of a learning curve more easily defined as a sheer cliff face, and a UI that's more rote memorization than learning a new language.
Quote from: Lightzy on December 31, 2016, 07:22:27 PMRamble:
This is actually something I hoped would be more defined in rimworld too, where it's supposed to be somewhat 'wild west in space' or something like that. Playing rimworld I don't feel there's any stylistic direction really. There's a specific graphical style with the way pawns and animals and everything is drawn, but it's not really... a style. It's just very.. pragmatic and serves the gameplay excellently but doesn't evoke any feeling beyond that.
There's nothing 'fantastic' like, I dunno, that last WEIRD level in Half-Life, to make you feel like it's 'in space!' and there's nothing 'western' other than the music either. It's not like you have a "6-shooter" to craft for example. Just a pistol. Pistol. Those are two extreme examples of stylistic direction, perhaps, but Rimworld, to my taste, is exactly in the middle where there's no stylistic direction evident at all.
This. This is my single biggest gripe about Rimworld. Like why can I craft only cowboy hats? Why not a baseball cap? Oh because its spacewestern themed? Them why are the hats, the twangy guitar and MAYBE the jackets the only example of this theme.
Piss off 'Charged Rifles' and give me a 'Emily Brown Self Charging Rim Defense Rifle, Mk II". Forget 'Survival Rifle' and make it a 'Jackalope Model 2881'. Stuff like sheriffs, bounties, cattle rustling. That what I was hoping for when it was marked as a space western. Not 2 of the items in game having a vaguely western theme.
No useless names and marginal variants is what I and many other people enjoy. The way I see it, it's bad enough Jacket, Marble, Sandstone, Limestone exist. Differences between stone types add clutter but are hardly noticeable in gameplay terms. I most often notice them when I run out of one type of stone and have to replace blueprints - NOT FUN! I can distinguish Granite and Slate. Jacket is strictly worse than duster even for cold protection, the only upside is it costs less resources. There is little reason to plant strawberries or potatoes - rice and corn fill all niches. The myriad of various leather types add up to the disaster that is Rimworld stockpiles.
Weapons are named after function, and each serves one. Note there are people who aren't gun enthusiasts and to them names like AK-47 or UZI are gibberish. Heavy SMG is a pretty bad weapon already, I'd rather see it fixed so it serves a purpose than 5 new ones added. Incendiary launcher is only good for burning hives, and even then a molotov will do. LMG might be okay against tribals, but charge rifle is so much better, and the true swarm countermeasure is Minigun and explosives.
Another example of clutter is animals. There are many that look different but behave the same.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on January 03, 2017, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Lightzy on December 31, 2016, 07:22:27 PMRamble:
This is actually something I hoped would be more defined in rimworld too, where it's supposed to be somewhat 'wild west in space' or something like that. Playing rimworld I don't feel there's any stylistic direction really. There's a specific graphical style with the way pawns and animals and everything is drawn, but it's not really... a style. It's just very.. pragmatic and serves the gameplay excellently but doesn't evoke any feeling beyond that.
There's nothing 'fantastic' like, I dunno, that last WEIRD level in Half-Life, to make you feel like it's 'in space!' and there's nothing 'western' other than the music either. It's not like you have a "6-shooter" to craft for example. Just a pistol. Pistol. Those are two extreme examples of stylistic direction, perhaps, but Rimworld, to my taste, is exactly in the middle where there's no stylistic direction evident at all.
This. This is my single biggest gripe about Rimworld. Like why can I craft only cowboy hats? Why not a baseball cap? Oh because its spacewestern themed? Them why are the hats, the twangy guitar and MAYBE the jackets the only example of this theme.
Piss off 'Charged Rifles' and give me a 'Emily Brown Self Charging Rim Defense Rifle, Mk II". Forget 'Survival Rifle' and make it a 'Jackalope Model 2881'. Stuff like sheriffs, bounties, cattle rustling. That what I was hoping for when it was marked as a space western. Not 2 of the items in game having a vaguely western theme.
Thank you for noticing, the only intelligent person here! :> It's like nobody else even read the post, they were all like NBA fanboys "MY CAVS SCREW YOUR LARRIORS!" "NAAH FAGALIERS BANDWAGON", it's disheartening to read their stupid posts.
Now I don't know if I'd necessarily care for everything being renamed in a more western theme, because that may be hard to do while keeping in good taste, but the point I was making is that every single aspect of Judgement reinforces and evokes a style. The UI, the soundtrack (which is quite creepy), the "crisis" situations, the research tree. It all says "demonic apocalypse", whereas in rimworld there's nothing stylistic at all.
The recent additions of "caravans" by the way was very spot on in stylistic terms I felt, just calling it "caravan" instead of "mission" or whatever, and the way it's handled
So any one of those many facets of the game could be stylized more, I feel. Graphics included.
When playing Judgement I FEEL demonic apocalypse, impending danger, etc. That's what the game wants you to feel at least. When playing rimworld there's no such feeling yet.
I just got here, but I just wanted to say I think you're a very toxic person lightzy. A lot of posts I see from you, you bash anyone that has a different opinion than you and you start insulting them.
Not a very good way to treat people!
(Anyway, I'm sorry for this off-topic, but I just had to say this)
Oh god, I can smell the bias in this thread from miles away, anyhow here's my 2 cents.
I played judgement for a bit and I can safely say that in it's current form it's not worth it, rimworld pre-alpha was more enjoyable.
Rimworld has a graphics style, pawns were kept simplistic on purpose because most people has a biological super computer that can make stuff up, and it's usually better at doing that, than a "detailed" sprite on a screen. Judgement is trying too much too fast and thus implemented features that don't complement each other and therefore feel detached from the overall experience.
I've migrated from Dwarf fortress to Rimworld because Rimworld has IMO surpassed Dwarf fortress in multiple fields, for me personally Rimworld has deeper systems and less clutter, unlike Dwarf fortress you're never and can never be totally safe. (I just wish the temperature system were updated, it's weird to instantly cool down boiling room by opening a wall.)
Rimworld does have a problem surrounding a couple of features, I'm convinced these key features are what leaves a bad taste in people's mouth regarding Rimworld's identy crisis.
The problem I'm bringing up is features without context (AKA clutter), we have beer but no drinking system, we have drugs but not a deeper medical system where drugs rather than solely being joy-items can also be important meds, we have sieges but they're incredibly easy to exploit using sniper rifles, we have caravans and you can initiate trading with factions yourself but doing so is most of the time not worth it due to the journey costing food and being dangerous and traders regularly come to you, ... and we have cowboy hats for no other reason but to somehow push forward those wild western vibes, it doesn't work that way.
These aren't bugs, they're design mistakes that make the game feel like a cheap horror movie with lots of jumpscares but no substance.
However there's atleast hope, if you would've started this discussion during alpha 15, then my list of Rimworld problems would've also included:
-The world map, which until alpha 16 served no real purpose other than choosing location.
-Faction bases on world map, which don't really matter where they were located.
-Late game resources problem
-...
So I hope Tynan will continue this path of development and continue focusing on tying features together rather than throwing in new stuff for the sake of NEW STUFF! (AKA CLUTTER)
How to implement the real wild western vibes?
Ad bounty hunting were a town asks you to investigate a location and take out a group of raiders, ability to build social facilities such as bars(saloons) and have groups passing by have a drink or an inn so they can sleep, ad currency system and CAPITALISM, there was no communism in the wild west every man for himself and not this magic colony paradise idea pawns seem to have, ad specialist roles such as mayor and sheriff, reduce spacey stuff a little bit, more improvised weapons that look like revolvers/rifles, more isolation and communication problems between outposts so you have to send diplomatic parties to factions rather than use the comconsole, ...
It's not that hard, just don't rely on cowboy hats and music.
And lastly, I won't mention any names but just because people (dis)agree with you doesnt mean they're (stupid) intelligent.
I haven't played it (discard my opinion if you wish as apparently I'm an uneducated pleb), But judging from the trailer:
1. I do think Rimworld's graphics looks aesthetically better despite not being as detailed.
2. No opinion on this.
3. I dunno about that game. But I do agree that Rimworld could do better in the Space-Western department. Only thing that feels really western about it is the music. I really wish there were revolvers.
Quote from: Nomsayinbrah on January 04, 2017, 06:42:29 AM
I just got here, but I just wanted to say I think you're a very toxic person lightzy. A lot of posts I see from you, you bash anyone that has a different opinion than you and you start insulting them.
Not a very good way to treat people!
(Anyway, I'm sorry for this off-topic, but I just had to say this)
That's terribly biased of you. You failed to acknowledge that I give credit where credit is due :)
There are a tiny few who deserve it here, but the rest? it's very easy to judge.
In my opinion the term western was supposed to be interpreted as discovering the frontier, i don´t think it was meant literally. That aside my first post was a comparison to rimworld because you (Lightzy) ADVERTISE a game from a different developer in the RIMWORLD forums. I felt obliged to at least give a short comment to the quality of the game, i didn´t refer to any of the gibberish you posted besides the title, stating that the game is 'amazing'. But what do i know, i´m just a dumb person too illiterate to process your line of thoughts and your insults really put an emphasis on your arguments.
BTW i´m pretty new to the board, is there a button anywhere here to report toxic posters? Totally with you Nomsayinbrah
nvm found it
Quote from: Headshotkill on January 04, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
Ad bounty hunting were a town asks you to investigate a location and take out a group of raiders, ability to build social facilities such as bars(saloons) and have groups passing by have a drink or an inn so they can sleep, ad currency system and CAPITALISM, there was no communism in the wild west every man for himself and not this magic colony paradise idea pawns seem to have, ad specialist roles such as mayor and sheriff, reduce spacey stuff a little bit, more improvised weapons that look like revolvers/rifles, more isolation and communication problems between outposts so you have to send diplomatic parties to factions rather than use the comconsole, ...
It's not that hard, just don't rely on cowboy hats and music.
And lastly, I won't mention any names but just because people (dis)agree with you doesnt mean they're (stupid) intelligent.
It's not that they're stupid, it's that they miss the point and are not constructive. I dislike people who cannot contribute or think constructively. They are a waste of space.
Your suggestions are all top notch. I especially liked the idea of bounties.
Perhaps with more focused design, you could play more specialized colonies.
For example, a bandit colony. You raid. That's what you do. That's how you get your stuff. The game then has to accomodate to a player who plays like that, with minimal mining/farming/building etc.
Of course that can change over time.
You could play as a colony of vigilantes (or at least have a few vigilante type people in your colony) and live off of bounties. Perhaps you can even be voted 'sheriff' by neighbouring towns, and various gameplay stuff to add.
Perhaps there could be 'tech tribal' factions which are tribals of a more 'judge dred' connotation, where they're all very heavily mechanically augmented and very aggressive.
Perhaps there could be .. I dunno, ancient train lines to rob? a bit far fetched but yeah.
Also agree that stuff could look a bit less "perfect off the assembly line" where graphics are concerned, when it comes to crafted items etc.
The 'regular' metal armor kind of comes off like that, but stuff like the assault rifles, and everything else really, is way too 'neat'
Ive moved this to the appropriate forum, this wasnt "General discussion". Keep it civil people, if one more person gets called a name I dont like ima start banning fools.
I'd say id check it out, but honestly i've been entrenched in x-com ufo defense...why did NOBODY ever tell me how awesome this game was? I feel betrayed =(
In all seriousness doubt I'll be able to touch other games for a while.
Im gonna answer this here as putting it in your suggestion thread regarding this game doesnt seem right.
The reason this topic was deemed offtopic would, if you would care to the read the descriptions of the subforums, make perfect sense. Offtopic is for chat about OTHER games. General discussion is about Rimworld and Ludeon.
Err... I looked the game and I gotta say, I would not put my money into it. The art being the first problem. The style of the Trees, rocks, walls and characters dosen't match. The combat is horrible in my opnion, has no flow at all. The other parts of the game seem good, with a little more detail in quantity of complexety.
I believe that this game will differ alot from Rimworld because it is a survival/crafting game with RPG elements. Rimwold is a Story Generator in a Colony simulator. It has alot of RPG systems but they all work under the hood. While Judment will challange the player with, Rimworld will try to create the best story for that gameplay. Yeah, they might share alot of features but their intentions are different.
But the I agree with you about the Theme of Rimworld. It is a bit lost right now. Not that it is a bad thing, it can be added with quite ease. I like the way Ludeon is building the core elements first.
I don't think RimWorld needs more Old West style. www.rimworldgame.com says "The flavor of RimWorld is a mix between hard sci-fi and the Old West." and "Inspired by the space western vibe of Firefly..." Here, "vibe" and "flavor" (as I interpret them) refer to the lore side of RW, the universe in which it takes place. Maybe Tynan or his webguy should leave this part out of the descriptions or maybe it's just not in the game yet.
RimWorld is short on style artistically, but I'm always too concerned with playing the game to notice.
Judgement seems too early in development for me. And I can't imagine sinking 100s of hours into a game that's trying to be spooky the whole time.