A potential addition:
Colonists have a 'hydration' need, that can be filled by drinking water or beer
Waterskins and, later on, canteens, to carry water around
Water can be directly drank or collected from lakes, but is unpurified, and can lead to all sorts of nasty diseases
Water purification technology, to filter water and make it safe
In the late game, pumps that can pull water from underground, pipes to bring it into the base, and automatic water bottle dispensers that fill bottles for colonists
Rainbarrels to slowly collect clean rainwater
It's been suggested often, but this is a decent proposal of early/mid/late game solutions.
My two critiques both relate to Beer as a hydration source. From a gameplay standpoint Beer is pretty easy to come by (and vastly easy to overproduce) which would all but eliminate the need for water and any relevant research. From a realism standpoint alcohol actually leads to dehydration so it's fairly unrealistic.
But this is a good idea, a highly sought after idea, and one I personally hope is implemented soon. I would add that Water should have a bill for the stove and campfire to be boiled which could be a cheap and slow way to purify it of diseases. Water purification research should lead to much faster/instant purification so that colonists can devote more time to other jobs.
I belive it's a good idea. Of cource there is a gameplay limit on how much needs the colonists should have, but water seems like a reasonable one. Beer could require clean water to produce. It should also require some kind of carbohydrate, like corn, rice or wheat. I guess you could make beer from potatoes too. As it is, it is too easy to produce.
I'm all for new things but colonist needs should be left alone for now. The need system is great but not if you have a couple dozen needs to monitor for 20+ colonists.
Very nice idea indeed, would love this! - but one question: How would people that land themselves in the desert get water?
Cacti. Extract fluid from organic bill would do the trick, I think. Just a thought, of course :)
In desert there are water layers hidden deep below sand.
Cacti and other desert flora often have veery long roots in order to reach those layers.
Modern people living in deserts sometimes have pumps for irrigation and such if it is economical for them.
And oases yes.
So it is about building a pump station or finding an oasis. If it is a pump, it should be something of size and cost of geothermal generator I would imagine. Definitely not a cheap well that can be dug out anywhere else except for tundra/ice.
Survival being a major theme in the game, I totally agree.
WELLS!
I think there should be an invisible underground layer in map generation which determines water deposits, and you can DIG A WELL over ground-water which pawns will automatically get 'hydration' from.
This will of course affect your colony placement, given that you want to be close to the well, but maybe you also want to be close to something else? (like a mountain home).
This can be a great balancing feature because while you can possibly find water under a mountain, it's hit and miss (kind of like finding low roofs in mountain areas).
If too far, your pawns will have to travel to the well to get hydrated.
Other water sources like lakes seas and rivers will have mostly undrinkable water and will need to be filtered by osmosis (or perhaps just drunk as is by hardy tribesmen or colonists with special implants).
This will play nicely into caravans as well, which will need to pack water, or equip colonists with special survival implants (which help metabolize toxins in water and kill parasites etc).
And more!
Also,
Lightzy, undrinkable river and lake water is too unrealistic.
Rivers and even small natural water fluxes were sources of potable water for thousands of years until industry and agriculture made them not_good_to_drink in populated areas.
RimWorld is not so heavily populated to have such problems. Most water except salt one and swampy one should be pretty potable. Maybe in tropical areas there will be a chance to catch an infection if you're not boiling water before using it but that's it.
Quote from: Houkime on January 04, 2017, 02:12:26 PM
Lightzy, undrinkable river and lake water is too unrealistic.
Rivers and even small natural water fluxes were sources of potable water for thousands of years until industry and agriculture made them not_good_to_drink in populated areas.
RimWorld is not so heavily populated to have such problems. Most water except salt one and swampy one should be pretty potable. Maybe in tropical areas there will be a chance to catch an infection if you're not boiling water before using it but that's it.
Considering that you're actively mining mountains of compressed machinery, I'd think it is quite possible that rivers are contaminated :)
But this is mostly a design consideration. If water is too easy to get then the feature adds nothing.
Alternatively, all water is drinkable.
Natural untreated water could just be "water poisonable", causing diarrhea. Which, in turn, actually dehydrates a person.
Treated water would work similar to cooked food. Better for you, less chance of "water poisoning."
More Advanced: Have a salinity factor for untreated vs treated water. Could easily simulate hypertonic, hypotonic, and "isotonic" reactions in the human body in a realistic fashion. High-salinity water (found naturally) would dehydrate individuals, medium-salinity water (treated poorly) would help hydrate people, low-salinity water (treated well) would be optimal for hydration.
Quote from: O Negative on January 04, 2017, 06:32:18 PM
Alternatively, all water is drinkable.
Natural untreated water could just be "water poisonable", causing diarrhea. Which, in turn, actually dehydrates a person.
Treated water would work similar to cooked food. Better for you, less chance of "water poisoning."
More Advanced: Have a salinity factor for untreated vs treated water. Could easily simulate hypertonic, hypotonic, and "isotonic" reactions in the human body in a realistic fashion. High-salinity water (found naturally) would dehydrate individuals, medium-salinity water (treated poorly) would help hydrate people, low-salinity water (treated well) would be optimal for hydration.
haha :)
Well ok but if water is scarce then medium salinity water might be better because the salinity helps the body tissue retain the water.
Of course that depends on the definition of salinity levels. Low salinity i take to be the water I drink at home.
Precisely. You get the idea.
Words like the ones I've used (high, medium, low) are incredibly arbitrary, and can be used to fit a person's "intuitive needs."
In other words, whatever is easier to understand for most people is fine by me.
I suggested the scheme above, simply because other needs in RimWorld are so... linear. It might confuse the average player as to why the sweet-spot for water salinity is actually somewhere in the middle, rather than off to one side.
I whould love your idea about the Hidration need for colonists :)
I just want to highlight one fact.
Beers contain only 2 to 15 alcohol percent, far from the wine. They can hydrate.
To produce beer, you boil water.
In the history, the first beers have been created to replace the unhealthy water.
"Why not add some hop to my boiling water ? :-)"
So in my opinion beer should fill the water need but the beer crafting process should be complicated.
It's not about beer having water, it's about alcohol decreasing the body's production of anti-diuretic hormone, which is used by the body to reabsorb water. With less anti-diuretic hormone available, your body loses more fluid than normal through increased urination.
(Part of that sentance is quoted from a result I found on a google search),
Yes, so you have 5% of alcohol (in average) reducing the hydration and 95 % boiling water which hydrate you without any risk of disease.
Except beer's primary function in Rimworld is to get drunk, colonists drink to get hammered, which means colonists will drink themselves into dehydration. Even "one beer a day" doesn't stop colonists with high tolerance from drinking several beers until theyre hammered.
Let's just stick with actual water.
Seriously dude though. If there's a hydration meter, beer should definitely replenish it a bit.
It feels good from a gameplay perspective and if it doesn't work like that players will ask why
"Beer would dehydrate you" is one of those ridiculous myths based on a kernel of truth. ALCOHOL dehydrates you, but beer packages that alcohol with 95% water. If you're cooking up 80% proof bathtub moonshine, you get what you deserve, but brewing beer has been a highly effective and preferable way to make water safe and drinkable for almost as long as freaking agriculture has existed. The idea is that apparently, for much of the history of human civilisation, people have been dehydrating themselves with beer and were too damn stupid to ever notice that fact. Oh sure, they're smart enough to work out intricate metallurgy, build wonders of the world, and philosophize endlessly, but herp derp, only us moderns are super smart enough to realise when they're *more or less thirsty*.
The addition of a water system in the game would obviously come with a change to the brewing recipe to require water, so there'd be zero problem. For God's sake, who on Earth actually thinks Tynan would actually add a whole water and hydration system to the game and go, "Meh, beer doesn't need water to make, it's fine"?
Dehydration from alcohol is a non-issue next to the *other* effects of how much damn alcohol you're drinking to make alcohol dehydration a thing that matters. Like, "my idiot colonist has been hospitalised due to alcohol poisoning" effects. "I need to cut a new liver out of a raider to replace the one in my rampagingly alcoholic colonist" effects.
Quote from: SaintD on January 06, 2017, 09:44:42 AM
"Beer would dehydrate you" is one of those ridiculous myths based on a kernel of truth. ALCOHOL dehydrates you, but beer packages that alcohol with 95% water. If you're cooking up 80% proof bathtub moonshine, you get what you deserve, but brewing beer has been a highly effective and preferable way to make water safe and drinkable for almost as long as freaking agriculture has existed. The idea is that apparently, for much of the history of human civilisation, people have been dehydrating themselves with beer and were too damn stupid to ever notice that fact. Oh sure, they're smart enough to work out intricate metallurgy, build wonders of the world, and philosophize endlessly, but herp derp, only us moderns are super smart enough to realise when they're *more or less thirsty*.
The addition of a water system in the game would obviously come with a change to the brewing recipe to require water, so there'd be zero problem. For God's sake, who on Earth actually thinks Tynan would actually add a whole water and hydration system to the game and go, "Meh, beer doesn't need water to make, it's fine"?
Dehydration from alcohol is a non-issue next to the *other* effects of how much damn alcohol you're drinking to make alcohol dehydration a thing that matters. Like, "my idiot colonist has been hospitalised due to alcohol poisoning" effects. "I need to cut a new liver out of a raider to replace the one in my rampagingly alcoholic colonist" effects.
Thanks for setting this straight, something wasn't adding up! :)
Ill always support water being added to the game. Its the most basic survival need and yet this survival game omits it.
Regarding beer. In a pre civilization setting, this would be a must. Water kept in containers in those times bred all kinds of nasty bugs. A bit of alcohol in the mix kills those bugs right off. A low alcohol content Rum, for instance was used on ships, not only because it was clean, it was a nutritious liquid food.
I fully disagree and feel you're missing the point. It's never been an argument of whether or not beer contains water, of course it does. The issue is a lack of anti-diuretic hormone in the body when drunk that makes the body retain far less water, and is literally the basis of all hangovers. You can get drunk on beer and piss like a racehorse and you'll still feel it the next morning if you aren't drinking plenty of water during and after being drunk, because whether it's 95% water or not, your body isn't retaining any of it.
If you drink one maybe two beers, sure, you'll get a little hydrated. But in Rimworld it simply isn't meant to be consumed for hydration, and the current colonist AI won't support it. Once they start drinking, they drink until they're drunk, regardless of restrictions set in the drug policy window. That's why alcohol tolerance is such a pain in Rimworld, even "one drink a day" eventually devolves into 3-4 drinks because their tolerance is too high, and they're trying to get drunk. By exposing the colonists to more chances to consume alcohol, you increase the likelihood that you'll get a bad roll and the colonist will wind up with an addiction.
It's a bad idea. It's bad for gameplay, it doesn't make sense with the current way the game is designed, the current way beer is made, the current way colonists handle alcohol. If it's added that's not the issue, the issue is everything else surrounding beer needs to change or you're going to wind up wirh a colony of alcoholics because they're all going to drink Beer for theyr hydration meter. Work will also slow down because they'll be drunk or hungover all the time.
Expand upon current AI to facilitate this PROPERLY or don't do it at all and stick to water. Even then, it will make beer more involved to produce and if it's too difficult to make with little upside and too many downsides people will simply stop trying altogether and at that point why bother including it at all if it's made useless? It's a no win situation.
My goal isn't to be negative but you can't make a suggestion in a vaccuum, proper consideration has to he given to all relevant aspects of gameplay that are affected by a suggestion, and beer as hydration source has too many impacts to blindly say yes to. It would require would require entire reworks in several major areas of the game. Beer as a hydration source would affect colonist AI, drug dependancy, drunkenness, hydration, the production of beer itself would need to be harder, and economic factors would also change as beer would become harder to produce AND more valuable for survival so it would need to cost more.
It's an extra headache on top of a system that doesn't even exist yet. Stick to the basics first