Not that it needs saving, of course. But if it did, this would be it.
The game's balance and storytelling strength are always skewed in weird ways that don't work, and it's because most pawns are useless and some are vital.
A better balanced game, which will tell much better stories, would be one where pretty much all pawns had some use, had something special about them.
Also you won't be leaving 95% of drop-pod survivors to die outside, and "wanderer joins" won't be usually a punishment (which I'm fairly certain isn't 'what the poet intended').
Hence,
Adding weaving/armormaking/weaponmaking/gunsmithing/etc skills, woodworking/stoneworking/siege construction/etc skills, fishing/trapping/butchering skills, would help break the monotonous despotism of craft/build.
And since there are more skills, it is more likely that a previously useless pawn will suddenly become very important in your colony, because he can make armors.
In short, the lack of skills/jobs is bad for the game, making every playthrough run about the same, while having many jobs will make each playthrough more unique, because sometimes you won't get an armorer, sometimes you won't get a weaver, sometimes you won't get a trapper (so no quality traps for you), etc., forcing you to play differently every time..
Not to mention more interesting stories and better story flow, since losing an armorer is sad, but not as 'permadeath' as losing your 'does it all' crafter, etc.
I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again:
Rimworld suffers from Master Syndrome. For a number of skills, like:
Cooking,
Crafting,
Medicine*,
Animals,
Social,
Construction (quality),
you only care how high your BEST colonist is. One skill 14 cook is better than three skill 12 cooks. A skill 8 doctor can't assist a skill 11 doctor, he can only serve as a backup and heal the better doctor if both are sick.
For a number of skills you only need 1 colonist who performs this role and you're done. Other colonists who come later and are nearly as good give an impression that they're useless. Because effectively they are, they only serve as backups to protect from the bus factor.
That reminds me of Anthony Bourdaine's book (Kitchen Confidential) where he tells about his manager, where if there was a guy who would get 91% (or something, can't recall) yield from a fish and another who could get 90%, he'll always have the 90% butcher the fish.
I guess more skills will void that problem due to the massive reduction of overlap.
I'm not sure Tynan wants more skills. He's worried about the Work tab becoming too large and complicated.
True... for us veteran players this is nothing but convienience... but for newer players that would be daunting
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 09, 2017, 05:23:15 PM
I'm not sure Tynan wants more skills. He's worried about the Work tab becoming too large and complicated.
Yep, and then there's some of us running Fluffy's Work Tab mod in Dwarf Therapist mode :)
I would like to use fluffy's work tab mode but my old ass eyes are to bad for it. And resizing the UI for it makes everything else to damn big lol.
Some of the skills could use some more fleshing out. Mining and art come to mind. As for the wanderer joins event, I usually disable it in the scenario editor. The "Hospitality" mod has a better solution, allowing the player to accept or decline the wanderer joining, but I don't usually use the mod because the gifting system seems to shatter any semblance of economic balance.
I don't think it's quite valid an argument to have a broken system in order for 'new players' to not be 'daunted'.
I was a 'new player' and on my first game I already figured out that the 'wanderer joins' event punished me, that taking in useless pawns is dangerous and better let them die, and that the design makes no sense because every the skills are too all-inclusive.
Also figured out on the first run that ideal is 6-7 pawns, because anything more than that ... you simply don't need! 6-7 pawns cover everything.
The design, frankly, is bad, and this is a fix :)
Maybe there are more. I suggested another idea with pawns leveling up to get unique abilities, but whatever.
Quote from: Lightzy on February 10, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
Also figured out on the first run that ideal is 6-7 pawns, because anything more than that ... you simply don't need! 6-7 pawns cover everything.
My current colony has 11 full-time colonists, three arctic wolves, tons of alpacas and four elephants, along with 4 prisoners awaiting recruitment.
We're constantly running out of space for more food, so much so that I had to disable sowing on the small farms that we have. It's crazy, I don't know how we're producing so much corn and potatoes. Also, you'd need more people if you want to make caravans. Don't want to be sending your main constructor, cook, doctor etc out away from the colony when they might be needed most!
Just thought I'd put that out there.
Quote from: Lurmey on February 10, 2017, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: Lightzy on February 10, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
Also figured out on the first run that ideal is 6-7 pawns, because anything more than that ... you simply don't need! 6-7 pawns cover everything.
My current colony has 11 full-time colonists, three arctic wolves, tons of alpacas and four elephants, along with 4 prisoners awaiting recruitment.
We're constantly running out of space for more food, so much so that I had to disable sowing on the small farms that we have. It's crazy, I don't know how we're producing so much corn and potatoes. Also, you'd need more people if you want to make caravans. Don't want to be sending your main constructor, cook, doctor etc out away from the colony when they might be needed most!
Just thought I'd put that out there.
There's a good mod out there that lets you stack 10 times the amount of anything except for meat and single stack items. It works great for freezers and if your like me and run most games on Wood Burning generators i like to have a huge surplus of wood, you know... just in case.
You can have 900 if you want, but the ideal number remains 7.
Anything over that you have skill overlap which isn't necessary, and you get bigger raids, more shit thrown at you from the storyteller etc.
This is, again, because there are so few skills that 7 cover all you could ever need.
Crafter
Builder
Medic
Grower
Doc/Research
After that you can just get 2-3 useless guys for hauling/cleaning or other not really necessary tasks such as animal handling, cooking, diplomacy etc.
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 09, 2017, 04:38:19 PM
A skill 8 doctor can't assist a skill 11 doctor, he can only serve as a backup and heal the better doctor if both are sick.
Optionally breaking down some skills would solve that. Add a third detailed work schedule menu that divides doctoring into operating, treatment and nursing (feeding and cheering up patients). Then bad doctors can do nursing, medium doctors can do treatment and your best doctor does operations.
I feel like sometimes there's two groups of Rimworld players:
1. The Rimworlders that are typically not interested in experiencing random and sheer volumes of !FUN!, and like how for the most the game is currently implemented, just wanting more content and fixes, etc.
2. Then there's them, or I should say, us, including myself. The !FUN! crowd. Many player's that hail from Dwarf Fortress, and just want more of DF in their Rimworld lives. This can vary greatly in expectations and experiences of course, but I at least, just want more of DF in here, as far as content is concerned. I want more Biomes, Skills, Resources, Creatures, and just more content, including Water already lol.
But to add to the topic, Rimworld I find is somewhat hard to compare to DF sometimes because, in Rimworld you usually have FAR less Dwarf's than Pawn's. You'll have one Pawn responsible for 4-7 tasks, whilst your typical Dwarf is responsible for 2-4 even early on.
Didn't quite follow you Naga.
Both 'kinds' want more and the same type of content, so what's the difference?
Also absolutely nobody wants the game 'simplified'. So..
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 09, 2017, 04:38:19 PM
I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again:
Rimworld suffers from Master Syndrome. For a number of skills, like:
...
Medicine*,
...
How great would it be if surgeries could be performed with 2 or 3 doctors, and the sum (or some other maths, where poor skill actually subtracts) of their skill determined the outcome? Then there would be real incentive to having more than 1 doctor with good skill, and make surgeries feel more realistic.
Quote from: Lightzy on February 12, 2017, 09:13:47 AM
Didn't quite follow you Naga.
Both 'kinds' want more and the same type of content, so what's the difference?
Also absolutely nobody wants the game 'simplified'. So..
The difference between fun and !FUN!
fun is the basebuilding and expanding part
!!FUN!! is the going down in a blazing shitstorm of glory part.
It hails from the unofficial DF Motto of Losing is Fun. While being embraced by !! and blinking red/yellow depicts being on fire.
Those players mostly identify themselves with references to ice-sheets and/or uncontrolled megalomania.
this also applies to !!SCIENCE!!, which is the art of turning every exploit, logic fault and bug into weapons of mass destruction.
I posted this in a thread in General Discussion but it probably belongs here instead. I'm new to the forum, so my apologies if I shouldn't have repeated the post.
I'd like to see there be a reason to keep multiple doctors around through specialization. For instance, you could have specialties like Organ Replacement, Bionics Installation, Plastic Surgery (fix those noses and ears!), and Neurosurgery.
Any doctor above a certain skill threshold could train (maybe through the high tech research bench?) at most two of the specialties, and those abilities wouldn't be available without the specialization. Unspecialized/lower skilled doctors would be medics or trauma surgeons who can stitch up bullet holes and melee weapon damage, install peg legs and eye patches, fight disease, etc.
A trade to keep non-specialized doctors viable might be that a specialized doctor is very good in his specialty, but he won't be as good as an unspecialized trauma surgeon of the same skill level for dealing with the everyday stuff.
I wish it was true, but Rimworld feels very controlled and safe for me. I play ice sheet not because it's batshit insane like Catacomb Kids, but because it feels complete. The level of challenge is right, even trivial events like cargo pods are exciting. Growing has an upkeep cost and doesn't go out of control with income.
Catacomb Kids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFxkxZj9Zk0
Quote from: Aerial on February 13, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
I posted this in a thread in General Discussion but it probably belongs here instead. I'm new to the forum, so my apologies if I shouldn't have repeated the post.
I'd like to see there be a reason to keep multiple doctors around through specialization. For instance, you could have specialties like Organ Replacement, Bionics Installation, Plastic Surgery (fix those noses and ears!), and Neurosurgery.
Any doctor above a certain skill threshold could train (maybe through the high tech research bench?) at most two of the specialties, and those abilities wouldn't be available without the specialization. Unspecialized/lower skilled doctors would be medics or trauma surgeons who can stitch up bullet holes and melee weapon damage, install peg legs and eye patches, fight disease, etc.
A trade to keep non-specialized doctors viable might be that a specialized doctor is very good in his specialty, but he won't be as good as an unspecialized trauma surgeon of the same skill level for dealing with the everyday stuff.
This is a great suggestion.
I also made such a suggestion a while back, inspired by a game called "Judgement" on steam. It's kind of a rimworld thing but much more early in development, and it has no useless pawns because pawns LEVEL UP and gain UNIQUE skills which no other pawn has. So only some pawn can build defensive building, another pawn is the only one who can make guns, another is the only one who can cast spells or whatever... while basic skills are available to everyone.
That will work just as well as having more professions, and will perhaps be even more interesting.
But an easier solution might be having more professions. Or best, have both:)
my ideal high end colony has 2 cooks, 2-3 contructors, 2-3 crafters, 3-4 growers, 2 doctors minimum, 2 cleaners, 2 haulers (1 if i have many animals) 1-2 animal folks...1 can be unskilled for shearing/milking, 1-3 researchers (ideally with some other use for when research runs out), 1 recruiter (can double as hauler/cleaner), 0-1 dedicated miner (many others set to mine when not doing other stuff), 1 dedicated artist.
This means my ideal colony runs best with a MINIMUM of 2+2+2+3+2+2+2+1+1+0+1 = 18 pawns.
i can use multiple crafters to actually make clothing and weapons and components at the same time. multiple cooks 1 for night, 1 for day. multiple constructors for night and day. Many growers to make sure the fields are sown and harvested fast...fully grown crops or empty fields sitting there slow down food production. a dedicated miner can really rake in the resources once you get to deep core. With this size base, multiple cleaners and haulers are a must. 2 doctors, because you always need 1 to take care of the other...a third doesn't hurt to take care of large amounts of injured at once to prevent deaths. Animals can be an amazing source of income and usable resources thru milk and wool, and someone needs to train the dogs/pigs...those 2 haulers will be overwhelmed fast at harvest. A recruiter serves my purposes, as I've added EPOE and Hospitality, so i give a good talker 2 golden eyes (now he's blind) and he serves to get me good prices and cherry pick the best visitors. I often have 2, sometimes 3 research benches in the colony to speed thru research.
Everyone's preferences vary...you might prefer 7 pawns as "ideal" - I consider 7 pawns to be early-midgame.
Quote from: Limdood on February 14, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
my ideal high end colony has 2 cooks, 2-3 contructors, 2-3 crafters, 3-4 growers, 2 doctors minimum, 2 cleaners, 2 haulers (1 if i have many animals) 1-2 animal folks...1 can be unskilled for shearing/milking, 1-3 researchers (ideally with some other use for when research runs out), 1 recruiter (can double as hauler/cleaner), 0-1 dedicated miner (many others set to mine when not doing other stuff), 1 dedicated artist.
This means my ideal colony runs best with a MINIMUM of 2+2+2+3+2+2+2+1+1+0+1 = 18 pawns.
i can use multiple crafters to actually make clothing and weapons and components at the same time. multiple cooks 1 for night, 1 for day. multiple constructors for night and day. Many growers to make sure the fields are sown and harvested fast...fully grown crops or empty fields sitting there slow down food production. a dedicated miner can really rake in the resources once you get to deep core. With this size base, multiple cleaners and haulers are a must. 2 doctors, because you always need 1 to take care of the other...a third doesn't hurt to take care of large amounts of injured at once to prevent deaths. Animals can be an amazing source of income and usable resources thru milk and wool, and someone needs to train the dogs/pigs...those 2 haulers will be overwhelmed fast at harvest. A recruiter serves my purposes, as I've added EPOE and Hospitality, so i give a good talker 2 golden eyes (now he's blind) and he serves to get me good prices and cherry pick the best visitors. I often have 2, sometimes 3 research benches in the colony to speed thru research.
Everyone's preferences vary...you might prefer 7 pawns as "ideal" - I consider 7 pawns to be early-midgame.
That's Exactly how I play ..
It is indisputably ideal to stop at 7-8.
Because at that point you cover all the skills you require and can make a spaceship and finish the game no problem.
Of course you can play much less efficiently and get more, but it is, of course, inefficient. That's regardless of the fact that you like it better.
If you actually wanted to make the game better, then, you'd have said "wow awesome idea, I support", beause the idea basically makes it so that your size colony becomes ideal. More skills means that you need more pawns.
Quote from: Lightzy on February 15, 2017, 10:44:39 AM
It is indisputably ideal to stop at 7-8.
Because at that point you cover all the skills you require and can make a spaceship and finish the game no problem.
Of course you can play much less efficiently and get more, but it is, of course, inefficient. That's regardless of the fact that you like it better.
If you actually wanted to make the game better, then, you'd have said "wow awesome idea, I support", beause the idea basically makes it so that your size colony becomes ideal. More skills means that you need more pawns.
I said so, earlier in the thread.
And my playstile is only part of why I support this Idea.
I really like this Idea because it would make the job setup easier.
Without using Fluffies DF Mode Work Tab.
Ideal for what? winning? I guarantee i can win faster with 15 pawns than i can with 7...I can triple up on research, and force-generate resources much faster with more manpower.
For gaining wealth? again, I can gain wealth far faster with 15 pawns than i can with 7...i can sow VASTLY bigger fields of smokeleaf and generate larger raids for looting.
for not dying? more people gives more redundancy, which makes my colony far more resistant to fluke dangers. Additionally more manpower means I can build critical defensive measures faster in a pinch, and reset and reorganize faster for back-to-back or simultaneous threats.
You have UTTERLY failed to define "ideal" and given the above 3 points, i strongly suspect that your assertion of 7-8 pawns being ideal is nothing more than being ideal for YOUR playstyle, which i'm assuming is maximized efficiency per pawn...which helps you to attain...what, exactly?
Quote from: Lightzy on February 15, 2017, 10:44:39 AM
It is indisputably ideal to stop at 7-8.
Because at that point you cover all the skills you require and can make a spaceship and finish the game no problem.
@Limdood He says right here about his playstile.
But I am still with you, that more pawns make for more fun.
Not only skill wise but with the interactions between each other. More potential stories.
And it is more fun to defend a colony without turrets if you have more soldiers.
One thing for us Dwarf Fortress fans to remember (I love me some Dwarf Fortress, it's what drew me to Rimworld) is that in Rimworld you often have 6-10 colonists in your first few seasons/years but in Dwarf Fortress you'll usually get 50-60 dwarves before long. DF can get away with having a ton of skills and a super-complex production chain because you have more bodies to throw at it. RimWorld isn't there yet. If I need three doctors to perform the full range of medical functions and I only have eight colonists, that means it's almost inevitable that somewhere is going to get short-shrift.
I'd rather see some development thrown into the underwhelming skills like Social, Art, or Research, or refinement of systems like Growing and Animals, before I'd want to see skills start to get subdivided and split up for the sake of having more things to do.
Not more things to do, but more control over the priority.
The same granularity as in dwarf fortress is still there, it is just not controllable.
In DF nearly every Job is directly mapped to a worktype. But you cant order dwarves directly .. also RW has Therapist built in ..
Construction for Instance. Remove Floor, Repair, Build Wall, Deconstruct Wall, Smooth Floor
are 2 DF Jobs inside there from the beginning. Masonry and Engraving.
Since Construction is also used to build furniture from stuff we have Carpentry, Blacksmithing and again Masonry in there, also Glassmaking, Mechanic and any other Material touched.
you see the trend. The difference is that DF uses Materials as Basis of a Job, while RW uses the Outcome.
Lets have some !!FUN!! and throw the can of worms that is the crafting skill.
DF has over 5 categories for crafting jobs alone .. each include about 2-5 different kind of works .. that are over 20 possible things a pawn can decide upon to do, without any control of the player than to send a pawn to a workstation.
In my eyes that is the point being argued. Split some Skills for more Pawn diversity, split some job types in the work tab for more control.
Have you ever opened fluffys extended work tab with 30+ colonists ?
You need a real Therapist after that :)
Quote from: Limdood on February 16, 2017, 10:01:25 AM
Ideal for what? winning?
You have UTTERLY failed to define "ideal" and given the above 3 points, i blablabla blabla
With more unnecessary pawns and more unnecessary resources you have the storyteller abuse you with bigger raids, more problematic events, more disease, more everything bad. You see, it calculates how 'good' you're doing and accordingly punishes you.
Hence 7 pawns covering all skills is ideal for winning, yes. Because you simply don't need any more skills. Could be because some of the skills are simply unnecessary, but yeah. there you go.
I suppose you have 'UTTERLY' failed to understand how the mechanics of the game worked so that's an explanation.
Dorf:
I get what you're saying although I do think it's about the pawn skills, not about the jobs. More pawn skills the better, more diverse, more fun :)
And yeah the crafting skill (because if you can make a knife you can make a dress and if you can make a dress then you're probably awesome at sniper rifles!!) is a crappy compromise which ended up making the game real bizzare.
Quote from: Lightzy link=topic=30425.msg312262#msg312262
Dorf:
I get what you're saying although I do think it's about the pawn skills, not about the jobs. More pawn skills the better, more diverse, more fun :)
And yeah the crafting skill (because if you can make a knife you can make a dress and if you can make a dress then you're probably awesome at sniper rifles!!) is a crappy compromise which ended up making the game real bizzare.
Which you learned by smashing rocks .. :)
You got the point. Thank you.
We want Apples and Oranges .. not compare them :)
To clarify the difference between Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld even more :
DF - Worktype equals( to most extend ) Skill (ex.: masonry ) which similiar to rimworld effects speed and quality but is also influenced and raises Attributes and likes/dislikes which have no equal in Rimworld.
Worktypes can be disabled or enabled to control what a dorf does. Open Jobs call the fitting worker, there is no control over priority.
Every Dorf is able to do everything.
RW - Skills influence Worktypes through the quality and speed with which they are done. Skill raise directly speed is determined through passion, which has no equal in DF. Pawns are looking for Jobs to be done, you can not only set which works a Pawn should do, but also how important different jobs are. This gives more control than DF.
Not every Pawn can do everything.
---> this is what the thread is actually about :
More Skills make Pawns more diverse in that you get more possible passions and more things a pawn could do or not.
-> this one may require you to have more pawns in your colony because you have more bases to cover.
More Worktypes no matter the skills lets us better finetune what a pawn should do and the importance of the work.
-> this one is independent of the number of pawns, but may get you to do more work with less pawns
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 09, 2017, 04:38:19 PM
I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again:
Rimworld suffers from Master Syndrome. For a number of skills, like:
Cooking,
Crafting,
Medicine*,
Animals,
Social,
Construction (quality),
you only care how high your BEST colonist is. One skill 14 cook is better than three skill 12 cooks. A skill 8 doctor can't assist a skill 11 doctor, he can only serve as a backup and heal the better doctor if both are sick.
For a number of skills you only need 1 colonist who performs this role and you're done. Other colonists who come later and are nearly as good give an impression that they're useless. Because effectively they are, they only serve as backups to protect from the bus factor.
This is an excellent way of talking about this issue, it would greatly improve the value of individual colonists if two of them could cooperate in the same task, to help improve speed or success rate. This may cause problems however, with how colonists would position themselves when in cooperative mode. As workshops only have a single "work space", changes would have to be made that allow multiple workers at the same table.
Dorf, this is true (also I've been playing DF long before rimworld).
But as said, without the skills the jobs are meaningless.
There's no point in adding a 'weaving' job if in any case your "CRAFTER" is going to do it, like he's gonna do every other job.
And if you add the skills, the jobs automatically come with them.
Unless I misunderstood something.
Well yeah, it actually doesn't matter much because I think it's already eminently clear what the 'suggestion' is and we should probably move on to more suggestions :)
Yes you actually misunderstood me, but I am told I can be confusing at times :)
So the definition of the words in my mind :
Skills -> Character Attribute, which defines how proficient a pawn is at what he does.
Job,Worktypes -> Things you can assign a pawn to do in the work tab.
And priorise.
The point in adding the Weaver job would be to tell different Crafters to specialize.
Or if you only have a single Crafter you can tell him finish the fucking shirt ( tailor )
before weaving a new batch of cloth ( weaver )
Skills -> What a Pawn can do -> Diversity
Jobs -> What a Pawn has to do, and When -> Control
in that Skills and Jobs are totally seperate, only connected by which skill is needed for a job.
What is affected by the number of Jobs connected to a Skill is the XP gain in that Skill.
Crafter -> lots of high work jobs -> lots of XP Gain over Time. -> skill grows fast
Doctor -> dependend on playstile and storyteller -> occasional job, not much XP Gain over Time. -> skill grows slow
Grower -> tons of small jobs, connected to critical work -> lots of XP ->
skill grows really fast
==== EDIT ====
Concerning the playstyle and number of warm bodies you need :
There is now the possibility for a caravan crew in addition to your base crew, which should consist of a trader and some fighters, who can't really contribute to your colony on site.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on February 17, 2017, 05:20:30 AM
The point in adding the Weaver job would be to tell different Crafters to specialize.
Or if you only have a single Crafter you can tell him finish the fucking shirt ( tailor )
before weaving a new batch of cloth ( weaver )
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, I'm too lazy to go back and read the previous posts so you'll have to excuse me if it has. With regards to specialisation, there is Fluffy's WorkTab mod that you could use to limit certain colonists to certain sub-jobs. So instead of one doctor doing all the doctoring, you could limit your main doctor to performing surgery, and have lesser-skilled doctors just do ordinary treatment. You could have multiple constructors, one of which is specialised in deconstruction first and foremost. etc etc
Quote from: NagaPrince on February 10, 2017, 11:36:18 PM
You'll have one Pawn responsible for 4-7 tasks, whilst your typical Dwarf is responsible for 2-4 even early on.
This gets to part of advancement and progress: As the size of the colony grows the individuals within it can focus down on less multi-tasking and become specialists in a field.
Quote from: Lurmey on February 17, 2017, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on February 17, 2017, 05:20:30 AM
The point in adding the Weaver job would be to tell different Crafters to specialize.
Or if you only have a single Crafter you can tell him finish the fucking shirt ( tailor )
before weaving a new batch of cloth ( weaver )
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, I'm too lazy to go back and read the previous posts so you'll have to excuse me if it has. With regards to specialisation, there is Fluffy's WorkTab mod that you could use to limit certain colonists to certain sub-jobs. So instead of one doctor doing all the doctoring, you could limit your main doctor to performing surgery, and have lesser-skilled doctors just do ordinary treatment. You could have multiple constructors, one of which is specialised in deconstruction first and foremost. etc etc
You were even to lazy to read my Signature ..
Yes I know of and use Fluffies Mods.
I still would like the vanilla game to be more manageable.
Thats the problem of responding to the last post, instead of reading at least the first page ..
Dorf, I don't like that suggestion. Unless again I misunderstood it.
I'm opposed to having a crafter. I think it's stupid and a terrible compromise for no reason or benefit.
Remove the concept of 'crafter' completely.
Instead, like in DF, have weaver, tailor, gunsmith, armorsmith, etc etc etc.
I don't think that giving 2 crafters different jobs to do will make ANY difference to the game because A) you can already do that pretty much (setting quality thresholds on crafting projects), and worse, B) because it simply won't change the game in any way. You'd still want your best 'crafter' to do everything other than cut stones.
Sorry Lightzy,
I don't like it this way either.
What I did, was again just a description of what I mean, What is Skill, What is Job/Work this time mapped against the status quo of the game. With Tailor/Weaver as an example.
I would like to split some skills too, the especially the crafter skill.
And I would like more Bills to need 2 skills .. Doctor/Crafter for Medicine is a good example.
I would like to split the skills like this :
Medicine can stay, but split the jobs into Nurse and Surgeon
Construction should become for a better word Construction(Worker, Carpenter, Mason ) and Mechanic : Construction does anything with wood and stone while Mechanic does anything which uses electricity
Crafter could be split into the 3 Jobs that are allready there, bills should then be combined as second skill with Art, Mechanic or Construction
meaning stone statues need Art/Construction, Guns need Smithing/Mechanic
thats all I can think of for the moment.
What I'd like to mention in this discussion (again) is to keep this in mind:
First:
The more skills you have the more colonists you need to do the same jobs.
Secondly:
The game is not balanced around having very large colonies.
Consider crafting. Right now, one crafter does all your crafting - Stonecutting, smithing, tailoring, machining. If the game rolls someone with good Crafting they can do all that. Now divide that into its four component skills. Now you'll need a Stonecutter, a Blacksmith, a Tailor, and a Machinist. The odds of one colonist having decent scores in even two of those jobs is not great, so you'll need 2-3 colonists to do the job (you don't really need a Stonecutter) that 1 colonist did before. Apply this to too many skills and eventually those three starting colonists are going to be lacking vital skills your colony desperately needs to survive.
Exactly.
That is the point when you need to get creative .. when scraping by becomes
the common and not rebuilding a glitterworld colony with 6 people.
You will be less likely to ignore calls for help, or a bad trait, because the bring much needed skills ..
It might sound unfair at first .. but the thrill and the stories you get will be much more worth it.
Quote from: Serenity on February 10, 2017, 04:09:11 PM
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 09, 2017, 04:38:19 PM
A skill 8 doctor can't assist a skill 11 doctor, he can only serve as a backup and heal the better doctor if both are sick.
Optionally breaking down some skills would solve that. Add a third detailed work schedule menu that divides doctoring into operating, treatment and nursing (feeding and cheering up patients). Then bad doctors can do nursing, medium doctors can do treatment and your best doctor does operations.
+1 . Same thing for crafting, delete tailoring and smithing, to be crafting subskills (like nursing, treatment, operating) and add stonecutting, drug crafting, maching, component making,etc
Quote from: Barazen on February 09, 2017, 05:26:43 PM
True... for us veteran players this is nothing but convienience... but for newer players that would be daunting
How about keep the current skills but have specific skills underneath. So butchering a creature helps improve your top level cooking skill but also improves your 'meat butcher' skill. So a colonist with high 'food preparation' who never butchers will know a bit about how to butcher a creature but not everything.
I'm thinking of how some skills are transferable. If get very good at putting guns together presumable you would be more adept at taking apart mechanoids and saving more resources.
Also you could hide the lower level skills from new players until they are ready to learn about them without it having a huge impact because the top level general skills would still be a rough guide to how effective colonists would be at different tasks.
Quote from: dazhat on February 25, 2017, 02:53:41 AM
How about keep the current skills but have specific skills underneath.
The final destination of this is that every uniquely identifiable task is a skill. Mending a Muffalo Leather Parka is different from Mending Muffalo Leather Pants. Making Four Simple Meals is a little different from making A Simple Meal.
It could probably be implemented as 100% experience for doing the exact same task, and a drop-off for some measure of distance between tasks.