If you wish, you can now play Alpha 17's test version on the 'unstable' Steam beta branch.
Bear in mind that this is an unstable version, so there will be bugs, and the build will be updated without warning, possibly breaking your saved games. Please only participate if you're okay with that.
For those who do want to be public testers - the purpose of this is for us to get your feedback! The most useful things you can give are:
- Bug reports: If you find a bug, please report it in the Bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0) according to the very simple Bug reporting guideline (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=513.0). One bug per report thread please, and don't report bugs in any other forum than that please.
- Play stories: Stories about something that happened that seem cool or wrong. These can go in this thread or on another General thread.
- Balance feedback: Thoughts on the current balance and mechanics, ideally with a play story. These can go in this thread or on another General thread.
I'm only announcing this here because I don't want this going too far and wide in terms of news. To that end I'm also not going to lay out a whiz-bang feature upgrade list. I want to keep up some hype for the actual final release of the stable version.
I'm also requesting that video makers
not use unstable versions (though I won't do anything about it if they do).
Also note that language translation and player creative content data is a few weeks out of date. It will be updated before final release.
Thank you all public testers for participating!
I removed some off-topic/low-effort posts. Please stick to substantial replies here, thanks.
That was fast!
Before I jump in with both feet first, what parts of A17 are already implemented in the unstable version?
Quote from: Edixo on May 02, 2017, 05:58:57 PM
Before I jump in with both feet first, what parts of A17 are already implemented in the unstable version?
Everything significant, unless plans change a lot.
Quote from: Tynan on May 02, 2017, 06:08:10 PM
Quote from: Edixo on May 02, 2017, 05:58:57 PM
Before I jump in with both feet first, what parts of A17 are already implemented in the unstable version?
Everything significant, unless plans change a lot.
i know you said you didn't want to post a full-feature list but can you list the significant changes or are they the same from your last post on the main page
Quote from: Tynan on September 25, 1974, 05:24:49 PM
Everything significant, unless plans change a lot.
Awesome. Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work.
Now I just need to find a spot with decent wifi that allows a Steam connection. Convenience store wifi doesn't. :/
I'm presuming moisture pumps not affecting moving water is WAD? Makes logical sense that a pump can't really 'dry out' an area that has a continuous flow of water.
Is it just me or has the starvation mechanic been sped up considerably? I lost an entire (early) colony to starvation because it caught me off guard. With mental breaks still going on for very long periods of time, it's pretty easy for a mental break to lead to starvation, which could then quickly lead to colonist needs rescue.
Water graphics are a nice touch but it would be nice if there was a toggle in the options menu to turn them off.
Love all the new features and the much-improved visuals!
Quote from: Praetorian on May 02, 2017, 07:23:30 PM
I'm presuming moisture pumps not affecting moving water is WAD?
Pretty sure that's intended yes, but as much as I also really love the scenic variation the roads and rivers now bring I do wish we could at least stretched power conduits across the rivers in some way (a power pole or similar).
Allowing building of wires in shallow water might look a bit off though, and I doubt Tynan would want to add an object as niche as only dealing with a river crossing. However, if the object would in addition to connecting power conduits over a distance also connect other powered devices over a greater distance than the default 5 tiles regular wires allows, then it could be pretty useful outside the river scenario's too imo.
But then again, this construction limit might also be considered a new challenge you just have to learn to adapt to.
Infections seem really easy to acquire now.
idk if this the place to post this but infection in a17 unstable branch is a bit harder since med finish fast in early game, and getting a infection after tending someone is a bit annoying, i understand what you doing but it kinda annoy how high the change of getting one after getting treated
As a point for balance, I'd like to say just a few things about the new base generation when raiding another faction.
I absolutely
love the new base generation! :D
- Separate buildings, instead of one giant rectangle
- Crops give the base a more realistic feel
- A sort of FOW for buildings you haven't entered
- Turrets to prevent different cheesing tactics
But...I absolutely got screwed over in terms of loot, half of the time.
Literally found a room full of nothing but mediocre clothing.
Deconstructing things on the map for raw resources was often my best reward.
Perhaps that's as intended?
I'm not sure; All I know is that I'm probably going to need a better motivation for attacking others than loot now.
The risk/reward ratio is just too low for me, unless I'm missing something ???
As a point for aesthetics, you've done an amazing job making the experience more immersing with the changes to certain textures.
At least, that's my opinion :)
Common mental breaks cant be so efficient at disconnecting someone from real life. Please you must do something about it.
Unless you are severely bad on the head, a sad wandering is never going to be enough for you to hold still while a raider is shooting or stabbing you.
Congrats on the rest of the work though, it looks really good until now.
Quote from: O Negative on May 03, 2017, 12:22:37 AM
As a point for balance, I'd like to say just a few things about the new base generation when raiding another faction.
I absolutely love the new base generation! :D
- Separate buildings, instead of one giant rectangle
- Crops give the base a more realistic feel
- A sort of FOW for buildings you haven't entered
- Turrets to prevent different cheesing tactics
But...
I absolutely got screwed over in terms of loot, half of the time.
Literally found a room full of nothing but mediocre clothing.
Deconstructing things on the map for raw resources was often my best reward.
Perhaps that's as intended?
I'm not sure; All I know is that I'm probably going to need a better motivation for attacking others than loot now.
The risk/reward ratio is just too low for me, unless I'm missing something ???
As a point for aesthetics, you've done an amazing job making the experience more immersing with the changes to certain textures.
At least, that's my opinion :)
I feel the exact same, if you consider time, resources and manpower invested in raiding a base those could all be spent on less risky ventures for better profit (like making a mining base or simply growing and selling).
Instead of loot it would be cool to see some other kind of rewards like,
- Rescuing colonists that were taken away by raiders.
- An event to rescue people (maybe 2-4 people) that would then 100% join you if you did so.
- Rescue tamed animals? (Get a pack of 10 muffalos or 2-3 thrumbos that are tamed could be a good reward)
- Assassinate faction leaders? (which would trigger some change, maybe request from second in command then you get better relationship once they take over)
- Destroy local faction bases to reduce their raiding capacity?
In general something else than loot so there would be more of a reason to risk a raid on an enemy base. Obviously this would be out of scope for A17 but perhaps something to consider in the future.
Do we have a list with all updated features? New Modding Features woud be nice to know.
I've only gotten to play A17 for an hour or so, but here are my impressions so far:
1) Overall, I love the new graphics. The new water effect looks really nice, though I worry it will have an impact on my game performance given that my gaming laptop is getting pretty old. It would be nice to have the option to turn it off. The bushes and stone chunks look less cutesy and, to me, seem to fit the feel of the game better. However, now the green of the wild healroot stands out in contrast and doesn't look like it belongs. It's kind of plastic-plant-green instead of fitting with the color palate of the map. (This was in the temperate forest.)
2) My only medical experience in game so far has been bandaging some minor wounds, but it felt like it went a lot faster. Instead of having to wait through a progress bar for each tiny hare's bite, I think there was only one progress bar and all three wounds were updated to bandaged. I really like the change. I am assuming the treatment time is now tied somehow to the severity of the wounds, which makes sense.
3) I don't like the new season names. "1st of spring" might seem derivative since several other games have used it, but the upside is that it's unambiguous. "1st of Aprimay" is... odd, I guess. If that had been in place when I started playing, I'm sure I would have shrugged and not thought a whole lot about it once I had the seasons figured out, but as a change now, I don't really see it improving the flavor of the game.
That's all I've got so far. Thanks for making such a great game, Tynan!
Quote from: Aerial on May 03, 2017, 08:45:43 AM
3) I don't like the new season names. "1st of spring" might seem derivative since several other games have used it, but the upside is that it's unambiguous. "1st of Aprimay" is... odd, I guess. If that had been in place when I started playing, I'm sure I would have shrugged and not thought a whole lot about it once I had the seasons figured out, but as a change now, I don't really see it improving the flavor of the game.
I actually had the opposite response. I thought it was a nice touch.
Initial feedback;
Early game is a lot harder now. Especially since i got unlucky by getting 3 colonists in row that could not fight :P . Actually had to rely on a turret or two now. Also my usual strategy of using attack animals helped mitigate it.
Also i am not a fan at all of the possibility of wasting a ore node. Got really bloody unlucky to get my colonist to fail 3 times in row to mine steel with 90% yield chance. Instead of entirely wasting it can't we just get half instead? Not much of a smack in the face then.
As for combat... Well, the sappers that get sent to me one time had nobody capable of shooting. Should make it so sappers at least get one raider that can shoot so they are not sitting ducks if they only send grenadiers. Why? Because i just ended up siccing my muffalos at them :P
Quote from: Aerial on May 03, 2017, 08:45:43 AM3) I don't like the new season names. "1st of spring" might seem derivative since several other games have used it, but the upside is that it's unambiguous. "1st of Aprimay" is... odd, I guess. If that had been in place when I started playing, I'm sure I would have shrugged and not thought a whole lot about it once I had the seasons figured out, but as a change now, I don't really see it improving the flavor of the game.
Just having this discussion now on Steam as well. I think the reasoning is the hemispheres now act opposite of each other as on earth. So if you kept calling them by season names, it is wrong for half the planet.
With a little run-through a deeply-observed early game, things have been very smooth and mostly bug-free (bar the cooler bug), and it's been a refreshing and enjoyable experience. Skills like mining actually have meaning to them with the yield chance, which inclines you to only use your best miners as opposed to your best on high priority, and then any Joe colonist on priority 4 with it for if they have nothing better to do.
I've noticed that food poisoning has been really crippling though as consciousness ties in with a lot of significant capacities - and that's understandable as a punishment of having a sh*tty cook. Personally, I'd perhaps consider toning it down a little as it's really quite debilitating as it stands, but only slightly - but it's also easily bypassed with our lord and saviour nutrient paste... not so good for tribals though.
Shooting Skill still bears very little weight, and that's one of my minor peeves with A16 (which was when I started delving deep) - but that's another subject for another matter.
I also like the multitude of food rebalances, and I've yet to set up a proper economy but it looks pretty tasty. I also noticed the chain shotgun when testing on another map in dev mode, and it seems like quite an intriguing weapon. When I first saw Shield Belt, I initially thought of it as a crude form of a personal shield, but was quite surprised when it was the full fat package.
In terms of graphics changes, I certainly like the new raspberry bushes and chunks, but my opinion of the new water texture is mixed: while it is meant to symbolise flowing with the rivers and that, it looks ever so slightly trippy (to a limited extent) when zoomed out and at high speed, and then it doesn't really look that great zoomed in. I'd propose making the 'waves' a little more subtle to tackle that. Also the contrast between shallow and deep water is a bit on the high side too.
Overall, I'm looking forward to when the final A17 releases very much, and I'll be sure to continue with my current A17 colony too. Thanks for giving us players the opportunity to test it and essentially play a role in sculpting part of the final product :)
Infections are WAY too heavy now! The game mostly turned into a doctor micromanagement game. Absolutly no chance to get not infected after a long fight.
Fail chance on mining? Where do the resources go? why do they magicly disappear completly? Its compacted steel, so how is a pawn able to not get even dirt out of a failed mining operation? Should be better if the yield is reduced by x% instead of full loss which can be VERY painfull
New gfx is nice but the water.. first i though i had graphics issues till i realized A17 have new water. Personally i dont like the look of it. It feels too strange in the whole gfx setup. The animations, especially on speed 3, are WAY to irritating
Quote from: Hatti on May 03, 2017, 03:10:44 PM
Fail chance on mining? Where do the resources go? why do they magicly disappear completly? Its compacted steel, so how is a pawn able to not get even dirt out of a failed mining operation? Should be better if the yield is reduced by x% instead of full loss which can be VERY painfull
I'm hoping that is just in regards to getting a stone chunk from mining mountains/hills.
I just started a game by the river, (I like the new water animation btw) and it got me thinking... Should the water have higher beauty? I think large bodies of water are considered beautiful in general.
So did he re-separate repair and construction, or are they still one work priority? That was easily my biggest complaint for A16 and one of the main reasons I stopped playing until this update. It's ended at least one colony of mine where I wanted the builders to emergency deconstruct walls supporting roofs over important spots, or to just deconstruct the roofs themselves, but they instead insisted on repairing things first. Yes, you can manually force them to deconstruct, or build, things but it's frustrating to do for any more than a handful of items since pawns like to immediately walk away from the work area upon completion of a task. Sometimes directly into the fire I want the rain to put out.
Seeing that rivers is a thing, can we get bridges? Like being able to build one. I dont know how they would work on world map tho, maybe some random autogenerated ones along the rivers which you could tear apart if you went to that tile, or you could just build a bridge by going to a river tile.
About building the bridges themselves, idk if you already have an idea but I have a slight one. It is to make a new item called "support beam" or something like that, and each support beam lets you build a floor around it (1 or 2 tiles around it) and more support beams. The main problem I see with this is that you wouldnt need 2 (and make the road in the center of the two) so it wouldnt be "realistic". Another problem would be that you would need to micro the shit out of it to build it like build support beam, build floor, another beam, another floor, another beam, another floor, etc, which would be annoying. Still these two problems should be able to be solved easily like for example directly lay the bridge layout entirely instead of beam by beam.
About the seasons, well, I agree about the hemisphere thing... Actually I prefer them to be called quarters rather than quauntrums or whatever it is said because of... That, difficult to write, difficult to spell.
Pls bring megatherium name back.
Quazimojojojo,
I only played briefly, but I'm pretty sure they're still grouped together.
However, hope is not lost, unless you're averse to mods. Fluffy's Work Tab gives you some seriously fine-tooth control over the various subtasks within the existing work priorities. I can tell all pawns to carry materials to a blue-print for instance, but only allow my highest skilled builders to do the work; I can prioritize removing floors, or roofs, or more likely for me, completely disallow my skilled crafters from doing this kind of brute-force labor.
Of course, this is still only available for A16 at this time, but Fluffy's been pretty quick in the past; I expect this one to take a bit longer, since Tynan did some heavy lifting with the work tab.
I'm really enjoying alpha 17 but I think the ancient asphalt roads are a little narrow.
They represent ancient highways right? So they should be wider than a normal path to fit several cars.
Thanks for the great update Tynan.
Several times on playthroughs last night I was experiencing issues with controlling indoor temperatures. They were rooms that were labeled as "indoors," had full roof coverage, but were entirely unaffected by attempts to heat the room. The indoor area would have exactly the same temperature as outside, despite campfires, heaters, etc, just as if it was missing a wall section. These were room designs I've used for many versions with no issue. I can share savefiles if it helps.
I'm one of those that decided to play this off Steam, for a reason, when you make a game Steam's you give up all your rights of ownership. So I,ve kept the one I love to play off of Steam, please allow those of us to stay true to the Orginal release, part of the update process. I'm sure there are many like me, that know the truth about Steam and keep games we love off of it. I'd love to test for this game, very much so, but not on Steam.
Thank you for the thoughts and stories everyone. Working on today's update.
I have just pushed today's update. Changes since last version (rough changelog):
----------
When miners fail, they only waste half the yield now instead of all of it.
Reduced infection rates somewhat.
Fix: WITab_Terrain reports incorrect summer and winter movement times.
Fix: Right-clicking a blueprint fails to bring up an appropriate menu option when under extreme temperature or if already in progress.
Adjust water specular to account for sun/moon differences and game conditions.
Fix 2945: Indoor room sharing outdoor temperature, coolers/heaters unable to change temperature.
Fix 2968: 10 jobs in 10 ticks escorting prisoner to bed.
Trained animals following their masters (into combat) no longer flee when damaged.
Flagstone now doesn't yield anything when deconstructing.
Water v3: Major tweaks to the new two-pass water system.
Letters with timeout are now automatically opened right before they disappear.
Item stash quest incident now uses a new type of letter when you need to pay a fee.
Fix: Quadrum name non-translatable.
Translations update.
Player content update.
Tune water look a little.
Fix: Water edges look awful.
First attempt at multipass water.
Added new letter types. "Ransom demand" incident now uses a delayable decision letter.
Fix: Default def value bug in MentalStateDef
LetterType is now a def.
Pawns now try to avoid sleeping on water tiles.
When clicking a pawn column header to make it sort, the first click now puts it in descending order instead of ascending.
There's now a letter when a resource lump is found.
Players now have 10 days instead of 2.5 to mine minerals in a precious lump site.
Feeling a bit dumb here but, how do I download this early Alpha 17?
Quote from: Negocromn on May 03, 2017, 06:32:56 PM
Feeling a bit dumb here but, how do I download this early Alpha 17?
It's only on steam, if you right click Rimworld go to properties and there should be a Beta tab if you click on that you can select what beta you are a part of in this case Public testing if I'm not mistaken
Quote from: Mr.Cross on May 03, 2017, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: Negocromn on May 03, 2017, 06:32:56 PM
Feeling a bit dumb here but, how do I download this early Alpha 17?
It's only on steam, if you right click Rimworld go to properties and there should be a Beta tab if you click on that you can select what beta you are a part of in this case Public testing if I'm not mistaken
Thanks a lot, it worked just fine.
Nitpicking here but things that make a big diff in quality perception:
http://imgur.com/mHQ9uuy
this is ugly :(
As far as water's concerned the surface looks good now, still the edges/transitions from dirt to water lack some kind of hint of depth difference (it really looks too flat). I'm not saying it's easy or high priority stuff, but yeah. It's the little things, as Alice Cooper said.
My caravan got ambushed by a pack of manhunting megascarabs. That was pretty rough; outnumbered 3 to 1 and their small size means low accuracy; I could only manage to shoot one on the initial approach, and my melee guy got swarmed and dropped fast. I only manage to survive (after three tries) by carefully microing my shooters, scraping by with all colonists severe injured.
The same caravan had been ambushed by tribals the day before and had defeated them without a single injury...
I'm having a lot of trouble with today's update (0.17.1527). Started new tribal runs half a dozen times now, and every time at some point on the first day they will all freeze in place. Hunger and rest are still declining, animals still moving, but all pawns frozen. If I try to give them a right-click task it says "no path."
Quote from: Skinnay on May 04, 2017, 12:17:10 AM
I'm having a lot of trouble with today's update (0.17.1527). Started new tribal runs half a dozen times now, and every time at some point on the first day they will all freeze in place. Hunger and rest are still declining, animals still moving, but all pawns frozen. If I try to give them a right-click task it says "no path."
We'll look into it, thanks.
Same Issue here with the pawns freezing. It looks to happen when their state switches to wandering. Switched them to no downtime except for 1 hour and they all froze during that hour.
The warning when predators are hunting colonists needs to be sooner. I had a colonist actively fleeing a timberwolf yet the game didn't mention anything until it actually hit him.
Also, when said timber wolf took down my attacking colonist, instead of finishing her off, it wandered off to attack something else. This feels... unrealistic.
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 12:38:34 AM
Quote from: Skinnay on May 04, 2017, 12:17:10 AM
I'm having a lot of trouble with today's update (0.17.1527). Started new tribal runs half a dozen times now, and every time at some point on the first day they will all freeze in place. Hunger and rest are still declining, animals still moving, but all pawns frozen. If I try to give them a right-click task it says "no path."
We'll look into it, thanks.
I ran into the same problem. Luckily I was recording when it happened, so I have a video log of it. Problem occurs here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139996185?t=29m46s
I would send in a save as well, but saving & reloading the game fixed the issue.
Best theory I have is it's somehow tied to the tutorial popups, as I had just closed one right before it occured. It might also explain why one tester was having his tribals freeze on the first day. It also seems to be tied to rooms/doors... somehow. I noticed I could move pawns around inside the barracks, but all of the outdoors was a no-go.
Colony animals cause huge frame drop when they cant find any food in allowed area.
I also have freeze bug too.
From my extremely amateur debugging - there's a problem with the RegionAndRoomUpdater?
https://pastebin.com/pPasVTse
It seems that it's caused whenever I have a pawn build a new room - when he gets about halfway done (often when building a door) I get the ticking error from a plant - (this time it was PlantGrass14755 - it has previously been daisies, but always a plant first) as shown in the error log
the game continues normally for a brief moment, and then everything else starts to fail ticking (you can see the remnants of a previous test where a squirrel is failing to tick and path.
If I pause the game, and slap the building down in godmode while paused - no errors.
(Not entirely true anymore - on further testing, I got this error when placing a wall down, as I dragged adjacent to a natural rock wall. https://pastebin.com/6vp8bBHq )
I'm guessing (shooting in the dark) that it's trying to designate the room area before the room is complete(?) - and so it's assigning some kind of broken 'room' to the entire map - and basically starting the domino effect from there. Grass (or whatever plant) goes to do a temperature/etc check - and the dominoes fall.
You guys probably already know all this already - but I figured I'd just pitch in anyway.
The new stuff is absolutely fantastic. I've probably generated 50 worlds just to see all the highways and rivers.
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 12:38:34 AM
Quote from: Skinnay on May 04, 2017, 12:17:10 AM
I'm having a lot of trouble with today's update (0.17.1527). Started new tribal runs half a dozen times now, and every time at some point on the first day they will all freeze in place. Hunger and rest are still declining, animals still moving, but all pawns frozen. If I try to give them a right-click task it says "no path."
We'll look into it, thanks.
I've had the same issue.
I placed a new door in a room (picture: https://i.imgur.com/WNHm515.jpg ) The location marked triggers the bug with the pathfinding if it's turned into a wooden door. The error message below is created for every pawn in the colony as far as I could see. As can be seen in the image, I replaced it with a wall to keep it from happening. No errors since.
Edit: Should also mention that this is a savegame for a game that was started with version 0.17.1526. (now using the latest. Only been updated once - to the most recent - and played).
Update: It seems to be caused by disassembling walls, not from adding doors.
Error message:
Exception ticking Meerkat: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Verse.AI.RegionCostCalculator.GetRegionDistance (Verse.Region region, Verse.RegionLink& minLink) [0x000ea] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\RegionCostCalculator.cs:184
at Verse.AI.RegionCostCalculator.GetRegionBestDistances (Verse.Region region, Verse.RegionLink& bestLink, Verse.RegionLink& secondBestLink, System.Int32& secondBestCost) [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\RegionCostCalculator.cs:226
at Verse.AI.RegionCostCalculatorWrapper.GetPathCostToRegion (Int32 cellIndex) [0x0004c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\RegionCostCalculatorWrapper.cs:118
at Verse.AI.PathFinder.FindPath (IntVec3 start, LocalTargetInfo dest, TraverseParms traverseParms, PathEndMode peMode) [0x00c85] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\PathFinder.cs:551
at Verse.AI.PathFinder.FindPath (IntVec3 start, LocalTargetInfo dest, Verse.Pawn pawn, PathEndMode peMode) [0x00025] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\PathFinder.cs:103
at Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower.GenerateNewPath () [0x00011] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:630
at Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower.TrySetNewPath () [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:583
at Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower.TryEnterNextPathCell () [0x00215] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:487
at Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower.PatherTick () [0x001ed] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:255
at Verse.Pawn.Tick () [0x0004e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:470
at Verse.TickList.Tick () [0x0018f] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:126
Verse.Log:Error(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:48)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:137)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:276)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:243)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:481)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:73)
QuoteFix 2945: Indoor room sharing outdoor temperature, coolers/heaters unable to change temperature.
Still having this issue. If it matters, it was a save started before the update, but nothing was built (I started the save mostly to see some of the new map generation stuff, then went to bed). I came back to it after the update and actually started the colony. I can upload a save if you think it will help, but I saw several reports of reloading a save fixing this problem; I haven't been back to it since I discovered the problem last night, so I don't know if reloading will help.
I'm pushing an update that should hopefully fix the region system problems, please try restarting Steam in about 30 minutes.
Quote from: Aerial on May 03, 2017, 08:45:43 AM
3) I don't like the new season names. "1st of spring" might seem derivative since several other games have used it, but the upside is that it's unambiguous. "1st of Aprimay" is... odd, I guess. If that had been in place when I started playing, I'm sure I would have shrugged and not thought a whole lot about it once I had the seasons figured out, but as a change now, I don't really see it improving the flavor of the game.
Personally, I also dislike the new season names, but mainly out of a different reason.
I live in the southern hemisphere and here for us the seasons are turned around.
With Aprimay, I would think of fall. December of summer etc. (Currently, Winter is coming for us)
This change makes all the seasons a lot LOT more confusing and weird for us, who live in the South.
May I request a change to the old?
Or are you planning to make the season names relate and change relative to ones north-south position on the globe? (Or is this already so?)
Quote from: TKabutz on May 04, 2017, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Aerial on May 03, 2017, 08:45:43 AM
3) I don't like the new season names. "1st of spring" might seem derivative since several other games have used it, but the upside is that it's unambiguous. "1st of Aprimay" is... odd, I guess. If that had been in place when I started playing, I'm sure I would have shrugged and not thought a whole lot about it once I had the seasons figured out, but as a change now, I don't really see it improving the flavor of the game.
Personally, I also dislike the new season names, but mainly out of a different reason.
I live in the southern hemisphere and here for us the seasons are turned around.
With Aprimay, I would think of fall. December of summer etc. (Currently, Winter is coming for us)
This change makes all the seasons a lot LOT more confusing and weird for us, who live in the South.
May I request a change to the old?
Or are you planning to make the season names relate and change relative to ones north-south position on the globe? (Or is this already so?)
But, the whole idea was to line that up. So in the game, if you start in the southern hemisphere, Decembary is summer... just like December is summer in reality.
We can't use seasons as a calendar because they're different per-region. Tropical and polar regions don't have the four seasons, they have wet/dry or no seasons at all. And of course other planets may have no seasons. Etc.
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
But, the whole idea was to line that up. So in the game, if you start in the southern hemisphere, Decembary is summer... just like December is summer in reality.
Ah ok. So what I was requesting is already implemented. Great :D
I guess it didn't come clear across from what I've seen up until now.
Please take note that I haven't yet played/tested this new version and my information only comes from a couple online sources.
Thus the misunderstanding.
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
We can't use seasons as a caldendar because they're different per-region. Tropical and polar regions don't have the four seasons, they have wet/dry or no seasons at all. And of course other planets may have no seasons. Etc.
If the new season system is based on the different locations in the world at a certain time, I am really eager to get my hands on the new version and can't await to be testing it. :)
Still getting bad regions
Exception ticking PlantGrass14494: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Verse.RegionAndRoomUpdater.NotifyAffectedRoomsAndRoomGroupsAndUpdateTemperature () [0x0014c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionAndRoomUpdater.cs:431
at Verse.RegionAndRoomUpdater.CreateOrUpdateRooms () [0x000a4] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionAndRoomUpdater.cs:176
at Verse.RegionAndRoomUpdater.TryRebuildDirtyRegionsAndRooms () [0x00075] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionAndRoomUpdater.cs:83
at Verse.RegionGrid.GetValidRegionAt (IntVec3 c) [0x0006c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionGrid.cs:122
at Verse.RegionAndRoomQuery.RegionAt (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, RegionType allowedRegionTypes) [0x0000e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionAndRoomQuery.cs:20
at Verse.RegionAndRoomQuery.RoomAt (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, RegionType allowedRegionTypes) [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionAndRoomQuery.cs:42
at Verse.RegionAndRoomQuery.RoomGroupAt (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\RegionsAndRooms\RegionAndRoomQuery.cs:48
at Verse.GridsUtility.GetRoomGroup (IntVec3 loc, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\Grids\GridsUtility.cs:28
at Verse.GenTemperature.TryGetDirectAirTemperatureForCell (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, System.Single& temperature) [0x00015] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\Temperature\GenTemperature.cs:115
at Verse.GenTemperature.TryGetTemperatureForCell (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, System.Single& tempResult) [0x0002e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\Temperature\GenTemperature.cs:83
at Verse.GenTemperature.GetTemperatureForCell (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\Temperature\GenTemperature.cs:61
at Verse.Thing.get_AmbientTemperature () [0x0002a] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:357
at RimWorld.Plant.CheckTemperatureMakeLeafless () [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Thing\Plant\Plant.cs:355
at RimWorld.Plant.TickLong () [0x00000] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Thing\Plant\Plant.cs:383
at Verse.TickList.Tick () [0x001b5] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:128
Verse.Log:Error(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:48)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:137)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:284)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:243)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:481)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:73)
Quote from: XenGrimm on May 04, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
Still getting bad regions
That's because the hotfix hasn't gone through yet.
Sorry for the delay. It's live now.
Quote from: MikeLemmer on May 04, 2017, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: XenGrimm on May 04, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
Still getting bad regions
That's because the hotfix hasn't gone through yet.
Wow - That's odd. I had some kind of update on rimworld and mistakenly assumed it was the one. My bad
Thanks for the quick updates Tynan.
I hope that you could make the translation data to be latest when publish the release version. :)
Quote from: duduluu on May 04, 2017, 05:14:15 PM
I hope that you could make the translation data to be latest when publish the release version. :)
I think we will!
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 04:33:38 PM
Sorry for the delay. It's live now.
Is there a list of the minor changes from previous version? (similar to the list you posted yesterday)
@Tynan:
Could you please set the jungle insect chitter to Music Volume instead of Game Volume? It's irritating to choose between putting up with it and not hearing any sound effects at all while I'm listening to podcasts.
Oh My Goodness!!! Just noticed in my last little playing spell that you included pausing/minimums for cooking meals in A17. Missed that the first couple times playing!
Thank you!!!
Looks good so far, however would love to see the UI get a bit more like AC-Enhanced Crafting in the future. Some things that mod has are buttons for adjust minimum threshold similar to setting the main target number. That mod also gives the ability to rename bills and assign specific pawns to do that bill. I know it's possible you may not want all that stuff in there, but hey, worth pointing it out just in case you hadn't seen that mod and only saw Crafting Hysteresis (very similar and I believe the pre-cursor to AC-Enchanced Crafting)
edit: By the way, the newest update today seems to have fixed the pawns freezing issue for me. This was on a save that started with the original A17 beta release, and has seen a bit of playtime with all updates as of now.
Quote from: MikeLemmer on May 04, 2017, 05:46:26 PM
@Tynan:
Could you please set the jungle insect chitter to Music Volume instead of Game Volume? It's irritating to choose between putting up with it and not hearing any sound effects at all while I'm listening to podcasts.
Many games have an "ambient sound" slider - this might be a good idea too?
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
But, the whole idea was to line that up. So in the game, if you start in the southern hemisphere, Decembary is summer... just like December is summer in reality.
We can't use seasons as a calendar because they're different per-region. Tropical and polar regions don't have the four seasons, they have wet/dry or no seasons at all. And of course other planets may have no seasons. Etc.
I like knowing what season it is -- "preparing for winter" is a very visceral thing in this game. I also like the realism of hemispheres being different seasons -- I can already imagine setting up two colonies on opposite hemispheres and having my colonists follow the sun.
One answer to both problems is to just annotate the current map with whatever season it is locally. So rather than saying "1st of Aprimay" it can say "1st of Aprimay (Spring)" when zoomed in on a northern map and "1st of Aprimay (Fall)" when zoomed in on a southern map.
Quote from: MikeLemmer on May 04, 2017, 05:46:26 PM
@Tynan:
Could you please set the jungle insect chitter to Music Volume instead of Game Volume? It's irritating to choose between putting up with it and not hearing any sound effects at all while I'm listening to podcasts.
I'll second this (or an ambient volume). The jungle chitter really irritates my husband to I have to mute the game to zoom in on jungle maps :-X
It's too late for new features like that, but we can do something like that for A18.
Rivers are disappointingly ineffective at extinguishing burning pawns...
Temperature indoors and outdoors is the same despite one cooler working on that room.
Curiously, there is one room where the temperature is ok, but the refrigerator is the same as outside (49°C).
The cooler in the refrigerator is consuming low power (it was set to reach -10°C), and the one in the room which temperature is ok is consuming high, and it was set to reach 10°C.
Im attaching a picture
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
I made the room bigger and its temperature fixed
Joy gain from pawns passionate about Ranged Attacks seems to be broken. It only hops up .5% per shot and is immediately drained, leaving a net gain of 0.
Excellent update. I'm enjoying the refinements added, such as making the different food sources more distinct.
Is the story pool intentionally different each update? I can't help but read all the pawn backgrounds, and they seem to always be different each update. For example, "coma child" seems exceedingly common when rolling starting colonists despite there being a large, diverse multitude of other childhoods that never seem to appear. The same goes for backstories like "starship janitor" and "mercenary boss". Is this just chance, or a result of some backstories being locked to specific named characters, meaning those that can appear for anyone are more common?
Also, are we supposed to be getting new pawns with Power Armor on Day 4?
Because the first pawn I "rescued" had this on:
(http://i.imgur.com/hlLvcTm.jpg)
I really miss the camping mod that I have been using in A16. My colony has mined all exposed components on a large map, which gave me enough for 1 solar panel, 1 battery and 3 coolers, but now I'm stuck because I'm way too early to have anything worth trading and there are no components in sight. I suppose I could start strip mining the hills but I'd much rather there be an alternative. Are these things much rarer than they used to be? Or is it just the new mining skill failure coupled with a "start with nothing" game and a big scoop of bad luck?
Really, really digging the fact that micro-ing a pawn to do a task that's "reserved" by another pawn will override them. Excellent little QoL addition.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 05, 2017, 12:42:40 AM
Really, really digging the fact that micro-ing a pawn to do a task that's "reserved" by another pawn will override them. Excellent little QoL addition.
Look at me, I'm the worker now! Great choice of mod integration. Still kinda wish that Enhanced Crafting was integrated primarily because bill assignment to pawns (e.g. only assign butcher people bill to a psychopath), but Crafting Hysteresis integration is better than nothing.
I also had the problem that on my third raid people were already engaging with automatic shotungs, m4s, snipers etc.
This was on normal dificulty. Seems a bit overkill to me.
was the chance to fail while buiding increased?
i've just failed 5 times trying to buid a solar panel
Quote from: Zhentar on May 04, 2017, 08:44:23 PM
Rivers are disappointingly ineffective at extinguishing burning pawns...
my favorite quote of this thread...
- On day ~50 I was raided by 6 or 7 pirates and 3 of them was in power armor. Is that normal?
- I have a feel that infections are ticking up way too fast. I just had prisoner who died of 100% infection with only 62% immunity. He had lots of wounds and some of them was causing bad blood filtration. Also I dont think that I had medicine at that point to use on him. Also it is strange that infection on body was ticking much faster than other infection on kidney (it was around 80% when he died).
- Just had megasloth with LOTS of wounds and was threated in very dirty barn, but got no infections at all. It is much better than before (when animal with infection had 100% chance to die), but feels a bit wrong.
I'm having a hard time getting any uranium... it's much less common on traders and I started on a flat map that only had two tiles of uranium to mine. I'd really like it if the mineral lumps could roll uranium - I'd be far happier to get that than jade or gold.
Tynan could you say something about my answer. I would like to know why not use quarters instead of quauntrums (and bring back megatherium), and if you have thought about bridges for the future.
Something is not right with medical rooms & room tend infection chance factor. My little 2x3 room with sand floor had 60%, but after putting in sterile tiles it dropped to 32%.
Update: Once I had captured a guy and put him in the prison/medical room, chances changed. Suddenly I had a whopping 94% chance.
Started a new game after making sure latest patches got installed.
Here's a play story for ya:
Lost a colony (sorta; I cheated to save it, then deleted it) to bugs and infections yesterday. I'd found a fully buried Ancient Danger when I was trying to dig some more bedrooms, so I did what I usually do; Cautiously opened it. I built a side tunnel to it, blocked the tunnel with a stone door, blocked it open (so it wouldn't slow me down if I have to retreat in a hurry) and sent someone in to investigate. Saw a hive and the normal bunch of valuable debris, but no enemy. I figured I'd gotten lucky and I could destroy the hive before the enemy spawned (derp) but they spawned as soon as I sent my pawn in. Slowed up by rubble, pawn didn't make it out, so I had to send someone in to rescue him; Now I've got two pawns injured (one seriously) from the bugs before I could get outside the door, not to mention a prisoner in a room adjacent to the Danger, and another colonist recovering from the earlier raid. Next, idiot cat wanders into the Danger, gets attacked by the bugs, downed, because I didn't forbid the area. At pretty much the same time, bugs dig through wall into my prison, while the prisoner is being fed. My doc is also my best melee, but he gets downed in a one-on-one with a spelo, so I send a couple more dudes in to deal with it, while my rifleman deals with the megaspider; she's slow, it's stupid, mostly she's got it; kites it around, taking potshots whenever it gets distracted trying to destroy my base; Takes literally a full day, but not a single colonist isn't fucked up by the end of it. (oh, btw, the prisoner got up and walked out during all of this; Neither bug thought he was worth paying attention to)
So now it's recovery time, and I'm breaking into the good meds, because only my shitty docs have been able to do anything, and there's blood everywhere; The whole place is just filthy. Oh, cat's not dead, just missing two legs? Whatever, try to save it, but it dies as soon as I get it to a bed. Meanwhile, my shitty docs keep trying to go back to bed, because they're all fucked up, instead of healing each other. Finally, my good doc is able to get up, and he starts healing people; Oh, but he's still bleeding.
Finally, I get everyone bandaged up, and infection sets in; My least injured pawn (from the raid) is able to get some cleaning done, but it's too late. I'm trying my best to keep my infections managed, but with my best doc (only, really) so badly injured, treatment isn't great, even with real medicine; Then of course, he has a Sad Wander, just a few feet away from treating a n infection; So he's not in bed, resting, and he's not saving my cook.
It ended up with 3 on the verge of death, another badly wounded, and my only "okay" colonist is basically good for nothing. I used console commands to save them, then just said "fuckit." this colony is legit lost.
Impressions: Most of this was bad timing, combined with my relative inexperience with bug mechanics. I forgot that they burrow through walls, and that, combined with my cat blocking the door is what let the bugs out; my tactic of contain and approach on my terms would have worked better if I'd have taken more precautions about their digging.
I don't necessarily think that the infection mechanics were too bad, considering most of my doctoring was being done by low-skill (3-4) docs, and there was a lot of delay in the process. I probably could have salvaged something even with three (of five) dead, but the prospect of eking by when I had just been starting to get a stable base didn't seem appealing.
Thanks for the info everyone. Read and understood.
Could someone post a savegame of a midgame base around day 30-60? I'd like to look into this issue with enemies arriving with powerful gear too early.
Hello,
The game doesn't start today (yesterday it worked), i 'have a "development console" opening with a lot of red, then "rimworld.exe had a problem" pops up. I've tried reinstalling it and tested the A16 which still works.
Quote from: alligator76 on May 05, 2017, 01:23:46 PM
Hello,
The game doesn't start today (yesterday it worked), i 'have a "development console" opening with a lot of red, then "rimworld.exe had a problem" pops up. I've tried reinstalling it and tested the A16 which still works.
Does your log file point to any clear cause of the problem? If you need help, or have encountered a bug, then please create a new post in the bug forum to report it. Details on how to report a bug, and on where to find your log file, can be found in the following thread.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=513.0
Quote from: Tynan on May 05, 2017, 01:04:46 PMCould someone post a savegame of a midgame base around day 30-60? I'd like to look into this issue with enemies arriving with powerful gear too early.
I have no save, sorry. But I just opened graves of those guys and here is a strange thing: all power armors have bad quality (1 awfull and 2 poor).
Also something is wrong with siege behaviour:
- Siegers try to haul stone chunks somewhere far away from theyr siege camp. Not sure, but it might be previous camp from previous siege.
- Siegers ignore my pawns. They just stand there and try to repair sandbags while I shoot at them.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 05, 2017, 10:32:49 AM
On day ~50 I was raided by 6 or 7 pirates and 3 of them was in power armor. Is that normal?
quality vs quantity, i like this change: http://imgur.com/a/SyiTd
Mihsan and others of you dealing with the changed infection model: Secondary infections happen later and therefore start after some immunity has already built up. The secondary infections, therefore, rarely are lethal unless they happen right away. To deal with the principle infection, you really need to have your infected pawn in a bed (not just a sleeping spot). The 10% immunity gain is critical, and it only works while they are in the bed. It is often the difference between immunity at 95% infection and death at 95% immunity. Damage that diminishes blood filtration combined with an infection is often lethal unless you have shiny glitterworld meds or an ace surgeon with very high medical.
Quote from: Darth Fool on May 05, 2017, 02:36:33 PM
Mihsan and others of you dealing with the changed infection model: Secondary infections happen later and therefore start after some immunity has already built up. The secondary infections, therefore, rarely are lethal unless they happen right away. To deal with the principle infection, you really need to have your infected pawn in a bed (not just a sleeping spot). The 10% immunity gain is critical, and it only works while they are in the bed. It is often the difference between immunity at 95% infection and death at 95% immunity. Damage that diminishes blood filtration combined with an infection is often lethal unless you have shiny glitterworld meds or an ace surgeon with very high medical.
To be clear: my patient died at 62% immunity and he was in the bed (not sleeping spot) all the time.
@Tynan
Is it intentional that crafting Stone bricks doesn't give crafting XP anymore? I could've sworn it did previously, so I think it may be a bug that it isnt.
Quote from: SS4312 on May 05, 2017, 03:14:44 PM
@Tynan
Is it intentional that crafting Stone bricks doesn't give crafting XP anymore? I could've sworn it did previously, so I think it may be a bug that it isnt.
It is intentional.
Not sure if this is intentional -- i thought it was pretty awesome -- but I had an early 'refugee chased by pirates' event that ended up with a pawn wearing a good suit of power armor (w/o helmet) joining my colony. He did have a military officer type background, and was pretty much only capable of shooting and making art, so in previous versions of the game I would have regretted letting him join. I like the idea of gear making up for otherwise useless recruitments.
I was, mostly, able to keep my pawns in bed while they were fighting the infection. The one idiot who decided he wanted a sandwich, got out of bed, collapsed immediately, and was rescued back to bed notwithstanding.
Unlike Mihsan, my immunity and infection were rising at similar rates, I was just about 10% or so behind on immunity; this was approximately true on 4-5 infections across 3 pawns. Initial bandages were done with herbal or no meds, except for my doc's injuries, but infections were treated with standard meds in all cases. Rooms were initially filthy as a lot of the initial care was going on while I was still dealing with the megaspider, but once infection and immunity were over 50, I micro'd the rooms clean. No sterile tile (I hadn't built a proper infirmary yet) just raw stone, but otherwise clean.
Also (seeing new posts), Re: stone bricks not giving crafting XP anymore, Ouch... That's usually what I'd use to get my suck-ass crafters up to some vague level of competence.
Quote from: Tynan on May 05, 2017, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: SS4312 on May 05, 2017, 03:14:44 PM
@Tynan
Is it intentional that crafting Stone bricks doesn't give crafting XP anymore? I could've sworn it did previously, so I think it may be a bug that it isnt.
It is intentional.
Thanks for clearing that up! I'm really liking the additions so far to A17!
Quote from: Tynan on May 05, 2017, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: SS4312 on May 05, 2017, 03:14:44 PM
@Tynan
Is it intentional that crafting Stone bricks doesn't give crafting XP anymore? I could've sworn it did previously, so I think it may be a bug that it isnt.
It is intentional.
Can we agree in a mid term? Like stoneblock crafting giving exp until level 5.
First off, since it's my first post i want to congratulate you on such an amazing game, it's easily been one of the best gaming experiences of my life.
On topic: Early game turned into sort of a hospital management minigame since every cut or scratch my guys acquire eventually evolve into an infection. No matter how clean the hospital is, no matter how young they are or how good my doctor is.
Maybe i'm biased and a bit salty here since the game decided to grace me with malaria at the same time all of my colonists were infected on one playthrough and i kid you not, a doomsday launcher- power armor bearing raider + friends on day 30~ (this is on rough cassandra) with 4 out of 6 of my guys bedridden with infection on the other one. But personally, i think the feature is a bit overtuned as it is now. Needless to say, both colonies failed.
Digging the specular water reflections and new textures, although i find the new rock chunks a bit.... ugly and hard to distinguish.
The new pawn management with skills mattering more is great, it felt kind of cheesy just using my industrious lvl 4 miner to do basically the same job as my 2 flame mining strong expert.
Last but not least: I've seen raiders not fighting back but instead repairing their sandbags non stop. Maybe siegers can spawn with a certain "job" where they prioritize repairing over anything else so these particular guys all probably spawned with the same "job" so to speak ?
All in all great additions, really enjoying the changes.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 05, 2017, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: Darth Fool on May 05, 2017, 02:36:33 PM
Mihsan and others of you dealing with the changed infection model: Secondary infections happen later and therefore start after some immunity has already built up. The secondary infections, therefore, rarely are lethal unless they happen right away. To deal with the principle infection, you really need to have your infected pawn in a bed (not just a sleeping spot). The 10% immunity gain is critical, and it only works while they are in the bed. It is often the difference between immunity at 95% infection and death at 95% immunity. Damage that diminishes blood filtration combined with an infection is often lethal unless you have shiny glitterworld meds or an ace surgeon with very high medical.
To be clear: my patient died at 62% immunity and he was in the bed (not sleeping spot) all the time.
I'm not having any more trouble than usual with keeping infected pawns alive. Like others have said: keep them in bed the entire time, micro your doctor to treat the infection every time it's available, use the best medicine you can (herbal medicine is everywhere now), and keep your hospital clean.
Yes, infection rates are up drastically from A16, but let's be honest, in A16 they were basically nonexistent. High rates of infection are completely reasonable considering the conditions these guys are living in. I think the new tweaks are fine.
I always thought it was silly that no matter how grievous the wound as long as it was treated it never got infected, even if you used bare hands to treat it with no medicine. I'm glad to see infections got ramped up.
I understand faction members being harmed on your land and losing faction will. But can I at LEAST HAVE something similar to caravan spot so I can protect them? Had a raid with 2 faction caravans on site and they turned hostile to me because they were in the way...
Or maybe I could tell them to leave? It just doesn't make sense they stay there and then suddenly I have to fight 2 factions...
Quote from: kenmtraveller on May 05, 2017, 03:16:58 PM
Not sure if this is intentional -- i thought it was pretty awesome -- but I had an early 'refugee chased by pirates' event that ended up with a pawn wearing a good suit of power armor (w/o helmet) joining my colony. He did have a military officer type background, and was pretty much only capable of shooting and making art, so in previous versions of the game I would have regretted letting him join. I like the idea of gear making up for otherwise useless recruitments.
I had a rescued pawn on Day 4 wearing Power Armor. Weird thing was, he was a Taxidermist pacifist. I imagine he stole it somehow.
New build is going up.
Please continue to report your experiences and bugs! It's super helpful.
Recent changes (raw git log):
-----------
Reduce water contrast further.
Reduce water contrast.
Remove lake water visual distinction.
Various readjustments to pawn group spawning to improve pawn kind selection. Readjusted the pawn points limit per total raid points so that advanced pawns don't show up until later. Some refinements to debug output. Outlanders can now spawn elite mercenaries.
Reduce wave quantity on lakes; fix water blending, both height and terrain.
Removed unnecessary "int" suffix from fireAtWill.
Allow firing -> Fire at will
Fix bug in pawn group spawning debug tool.
Moved a few Def folders into /Misc
Mining yield now applies smoothly, not with a yield-waste die roll.
Reduced mining yield waste chances.
Typo lastTakeCombatEnancingDrugTick -> lastTakeCombatEnhancingDrugTick
Fix: Graphic_Shadow can cause errors if the shadow is drawn off map.
Exploit fix: You can cancel mortars cooldown by uninstalling and installing the mortar.
Fix: Enemy base generation can place turrets in water.
Fix: Bug in GenStep_Animals can cause an infinite loop.
Fix: It's possible to run out of numerical names which causes errors.
Fix: Shift/Ctrl don't always work in trade dialogs.
Better PawnColumnWorker_WorkPriority shift click behavior (removed wrap-around behavior).
Fix: Loading transport pods sometimes fails.
Exploit fit: It's possible to affect the TryFindRandomSpotJustOutsideColony() results easily by placing many free spots somewhere, e.g. crafting spots.
Fix 2974: Merging caravans fails
Fix: Errors when a pawn is downed during map init.
Fix: Rivers on the world map sometimes end up in the wrong tile.
Add a little extra texture to water at dusk and dawn.
Dude, you are working overtime on this one! Thanks for the quick replies and fixes. Can't wait to test it out.
Hey, it's not just me. Thank Zorba and ison as well.
I'm going to push a language update in a few minutes, but the code won't change.
Here I am, tinkering on my mods and looking a bit inside the forum.. Hmm a new update, ok, I'll look through it later on.. What a language update also shortly afterwards??? *Start of a flurry of activity* Changes here.. there.. hmm, that's not needed.. argh, and that half asleep... Ok.. done... *crawling into my bed* Zzzzzzz...
By the way.. I think the changes to the water got a bit too much grey.. Personally I liked the sparkling water in 1528 much better.
But that is just my personal oppinion 8)
Quote from: Tynan on May 05, 2017, 01:04:46 PM
Thanks for the info everyone. Read and understood.
Could someone post a savegame of a midgame base around day 30-60? I'd like to look into this issue with enemies arriving with powerful gear too early.
I've got a day 26 save handy (game was started a few versions back, hopefully it still helps for investigation)
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Thanks Zhen.
I did change this a bunch in the latest version, so it'd be good if people could update on whether they're still seeing weirdly early power armor. And also, please look at the wearer and say what kind they are. "Pirate"? "Mercenary elite"?
Quote from: Tynan on May 05, 2017, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: SS4312 on May 05, 2017, 03:14:44 PM
@Tynan
Is it intentional that crafting Stone bricks doesn't give crafting XP anymore? I could've sworn it did previously, so I think it may be a bug that it isnt.
It is intentional.
Can we let it give a boost to mining instead? I mean, you're basically breaking up rocks either way... making those arms stronger and swings more precise. Same skill set.
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
But, the whole idea was to line that up. So in the game, if you start in the southern hemisphere, Decembary is summer... just like December is summer in reality.
We can't use seasons as a calendar because they're different per-region. Tropical and polar regions don't have the four seasons, they have wet/dry or no seasons at all. And of course other planets may have no seasons. Etc.
I think it is very confusing. How about an in-game weather "app" based on simple stacked bar chart e.g. yellow (sun) for average temperature and blue (water) for average precipitation. One stacked bar for each of the four 15 day quadrums. You could model any basic climate in any hemisphere without needing to define a season or name it. A quick glance of the app could indicate where I am today in the RimWorld climate pattern timeline and plan accordingly.
Quote from: DNK on May 05, 2017, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: Tynan on May 05, 2017, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: SS4312 on May 05, 2017, 03:14:44 PM
@Tynan
Is it intentional that crafting Stone bricks doesn't give crafting XP anymore? I could've sworn it did previously, so I think it may be a bug that it isnt.
It is intentional.
Can we let it give a boost to mining instead? I mean, you're basically breaking up rocks either way... making those arms stronger and swings more precise. Same skill set.
It trains construction currently
Quote from: ja7833 on May 05, 2017, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
But, the whole idea was to line that up. So in the game, if you start in the southern hemisphere, Decembary is summer... just like December is summer in reality.
We can't use seasons as a calendar because they're different per-region. Tropical and polar regions don't have the four seasons, they have wet/dry or no seasons at all. And of course other planets may have no seasons. Etc.
I think it is very confusing. How about an in-game weather "app" based on simple stacked bar chart e.g. yellow (sun) for average temperature and blue (water) for average precipitation. One stacked bar for each of the four 15 day quadrums. You could model any basic climate in any hemisphere without needing to define a season or name it. A quick glance of the app could indicate where I am today in the RimWorld climate pattern timeline and plan accordingly.
I never found the old abstraction particularly confusing; winter cold, summer hot, easy. This whole Aprimay, Decembruary whatever stuff just adds an unnecessary layer of obfuscation. Is Aprimay supposed to be hot? May is pretty hot around where I live. December is pretty hot in others. What colony manager actually cares about a global time standard? Far more important is knowing the prevailing climate and growth conditions. For date recording, in the rare case where it matters (art pieces are the only thing I can think of) you could have the weird month naming system, or better just a 'stardate' kind of system with 10 'months' in a year, or just the old Gregorian system if you don't fancy the scifi option.
Hey, Tynan!
Look at this: https://github.com/RimWorld-zh/RimWorld-English
It's the RimWorld original language data, and I update it minutes ago.
Now, it exactly match to Core.
What do you think?
And this is the tool: https://github.com/duduluu/RimTrans
I am going to give my two cents on this whole ApriMay shenanigans.
I will make a very simple point. When you are in Austraila, isn't spring still spring and winter still winter? So couldn't you just make it so that it displays spring, summer, winter, fall regardless of what moth it is.
So If I have a colony in the southern hemisphere during December, it would say summer, and if I had a Colony in the northern hemphisphere during May, then it would read spring.
Because when I go to my southern colony I read "winter" off the screen, the important information is conveyed. That is that it is winter here. That is all I need to know... I don't need to know it is decemburary and then try to think well I'm am in the southern hemisphere and therefore hot.
It would be FAR less confusing this way.
My only complaint about the new 'months' is - there is no Febtober.
(https://s18.postimg.org/wmbc1n6x5/Febtober.jpg)
Probably not what you want to be asked Tynan, but is there any ETA on the stable release? Just wondering as a modder what stage of panic updating I should be in since I got caught off guard by the last one.
The problem with coolers not working and fixing itselfs after several events is persisting. I dont know if i fixed it flicking it off and on, or modifying the room's size, or some other thing. Several days have passed since then, would attaching a save be of any help at this point?
Quote from: Jstank on May 05, 2017, 10:08:36 PM
I am going to give my two cents on this whole ApriMay shenanigans.
I will make a very simple point. When you are in Austraila, isn't spring still spring and winter still winter? So couldn't you just make it so that it displays spring, summer, winter, fall regardless of what moth it is.
So If I have a colony in the southern hemisphere during December, it would say summer, and if I had a Colony in the northern hemphisphere during May, then it would read spring.
Because when I go to my southern colony I read "winter" off the screen, the important information is conveyed. That is that it is winter here. That is all I need to know... I don't need to know it is decemburary and then try to think well I'm am in the southern hemisphere and therefore hot.
It would be FAR less confusing this way.
It doesn't work because these seasons don't exist near the equator, nor do they exist near the poles. In fact much of the world doesn't really have the traditional four seasons. Many humans live under wet/dry season (India) or no seasons at all.
Plus imagine the difficulty of tracking abstract dates as you move around the globe. You're traveling north and suddenly the season/date flips as you cross the equator? That's confusing as hell. Even worse if you have caravans on both sides.
And now remember it's not Earth. What if you're on an ice planet? To what degree can you say a planet has "summer" and "autumn" when there are no trees and it never goes above freezing?
So seasons can't be used as date labels.
Quote from: giltirn on May 05, 2017, 09:35:20 PM
I never found the old abstraction particularly confusing; winter cold, summer hot, easy. This whole Aprimay, Decembruary whatever stuff just adds an unnecessary layer of obfuscation. Is Aprimay supposed to be hot? May is pretty hot around where I live. December is pretty hot in others. What colony manager actually cares about a global time standard? Far more important is knowing the prevailing climate and growth conditions. For date recording, in the rare case where it matters (art pieces are the only thing I can think of) you could have the weird month naming system, or better just a 'stardate' kind of system with 10 'months' in a year, or just the old Gregorian system if you don't fancy the scifi option.
The new quadrum names are literally just the real month names mashed together to reflect the same time of year. What does Aprimay represent? It represents April and May at whatever latitude you're at. That's it. So the quadrums shouldn't be any more confusing than the real months we use day-to-day. If you can understand what "December" means, you can understand what "Decembary" means.
We may add some thing where you can get a tooltip with the *local* season. But even that's kind of arbitrary given that the same latitude can have wet/dry season, 4 seasons, or no seasons depending on rainfall and temperature levels.
The only viable alternative is to change it to "1st quarter", "2nd quarter", and so on. But all this does is subtract information. That's why I went with the quadrums.
If it's confusing that's because real dates and seasons are kind of confusing. People think they're simple because they think of these things from a local point of view based on their real-life region. But if you're thinking globally seasons aren't consistent at all and are actually kind of confusing.
Quote from: AshbornK9 on May 05, 2017, 11:19:21 PM
Probably not what you want to be asked Tynan, but is there any ETA on the stable release? Just wondering as a modder what stage of panic updating I should be in since I got caught off guard by the last one.
There are never ETAs, sorry.
This thread isn't for open-ended suggestions, for those please go to the Suggestions forum. This is for specific feedback on the build, thanks.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 12:09:42 AM
Quote from: giltirn on May 05, 2017, 09:35:20 PM
I never found the old abstraction particularly confusing; winter cold, summer hot, easy. This whole Aprimay, Decembruary whatever stuff just adds an unnecessary layer of obfuscation. Is Aprimay supposed to be hot? May is pretty hot around where I live. December is pretty hot in others. What colony manager actually cares about a global time standard? Far more important is knowing the prevailing climate and growth conditions. For date recording, in the rare case where it matters (art pieces are the only thing I can think of) you could have the weird month naming system, or better just a 'stardate' kind of system with 10 'months' in a year, or just the old Gregorian system if you don't fancy the scifi option.
The new quadrum names are literally just the real month names mashed together to reflect the same time of year. What does Aprimay represent? It represents April and May at whatever latitude you're at. That's it. So the quadrums shouldn't be any more confusing than the real months we use day-to-day. If you can understand what "December" means, you can understand what "Decembary" means.
We may add some thing where you can get a tooltip with the *local* season. But even that's kind of arbitrary given that the same latitude can have wet/dry season, 4 seasons, or no seasons depending on rainfall and temperature levels.
The only viable alternative is to change it to "1st quarter", "2nd quarter", and so on. But all this does is subtract information. That's why I went with the quadrums.
If it's confusing that's because real dates and seasons are kind of confusing. People think they're simple because they think of these things from a local point of view based on their real-life region. But if you're thinking globally seasons aren't consistent at all and are actually kind of confusing.
Hi Tynan, thank you for your response. I believe we are on the same page in saying that there are two different pieces of information that need conveying: one, the standard global date, and two the "season". Quadra are a means of conveying the former, although in a non-standard and potentially confusing way. But for a Rimworld colony it is far far more important to know the season, which I use in proxy of meaning the general climate as a function of time. I really cannot imagine a situation where I would care if it is quadrum 2 or quadrum 3, unless I knew that quadrum 3 was when I can grow my crops and quadrum 2 when I cannot. This information is now much more obscure.
I agree that the concept of season is somewhat variable depending on your position on the globe, but given that the game already simulates this variation, surely the standard seasonal conventions for such places would suffice? Dry/rainy season for the equator and spring/summer/fall/winter for the rest. In the background of course you can have a quadra calendar for recording actual dates if and when such information is needed.
Weird season names are weird season names. The system right now doesn't sound nice and it doesn't have as much info as naming the season at the location.
The first is easily solved, simply use season or quarter. If it absolutely needs to be months, then why not January / February / March, January - March or something like that?
The second is more difficult. Ideally you would get the precise season reading at your location, so summer, winter etc. or rainy dry or none. But I guess that'd need some work to code.
What's confusing me about the month names is they seem to be set one off from the actual seasons. For example, Jebruary stands in for Spring, and Juaugust stands in for Fall, when I'm expecting them to stand for winter & summer.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 12:09:42 AM
The only viable alternative is to change it to "1st quarter", "2nd quarter", and so on.
If you go this route please implement a fiscal year too. :D
I'll take "1st Day of 2nd Quarter" over "1st Day of Aprimay" any day. I know this thread is specifically for feedback on the game, and suggestions should be posted elsewhere, but I felt that this kind of fell under both categories.
I could be wrong, but I feel like releasing A17 with the quarters named as they are will lead to a lot of confusion and fussiness.
Planets orbit their star in an ellipse​, and you could possibly look towards that fact for naming ideas. Heck, I would even be up for 1st Solstice, 1st Equinox, 2nd Solstice, 2nd Equinox.
At the end of the day, I think it's more important for the player to have a firm understanding of what kind of weather they should be preparing for. How you decide to go about accomplishing that transparency is entirely up to you, but I don't feel that "Aprimay" and other mutt-months accomplish this.
That's my feedback on this issue :)
so at the moment i am having to play on a shitty notebook, after around ~30 minutes of play time my notebook will shut off, no warning, no error message, nothing.
this was not happening while i was playing my A16 heavily modded save just a few hours earlier
I love the idea of naming seasons based on the planet's position in space. Also in many countries on the equator there is no such thing as summer or winter. They still have 4 season but they are simply cold + wet, warm + wet, warm + dry and cold + dry.
I kinda like the idea of having different climates in the months, depending on where you are on the planet. I do wonder if it's something that most people will pick up on though, or if it's something that will go over a lot of people's heads. May I suggest adding a "warm season" or "cold season" tooltip behind it, to clue people in?
Also, Febtober should totally be a thing.
The rewards for the caravan requests though... Do anyone actually bother with them when the rewards are somewhat useless?
250 survival meals for a thrumbo horn doesn't really incentivise me to go on a 7 day trek to some nearby camp - however if they had some neurotrainers, or bionic limbs, I would totally consider it, since they are a lot more valuable to me. As of now, I haven't felt any like I had any reason at all for even setting up a caravan.
Ambrosia - is it intended that we cannot grow it? Could we perhaps be permitted to move the plants or something? They seem like fun, but if one is playing on a cold map, they tend to be of very little use, unless they happen to spawn nearby (which they have yet to do). They also get eaten by animals, so they have a tendency to disappear. I don't even know if they will actually re-spawn, or if them being added is a one-off thing.
TL;DR: Good update. CBA to use caravan because crap rewards. WTB: Ambrosia Plant.
Quote from: O Negative on May 06, 2017, 04:15:47 AMI'll take "1st Day of 2nd Quarter" over "1st Day of Aprimay" any day.
I completely agree on that. I play for couple of days with A17 and still cant get used to "Decembary". It makes me cringe a bit every time I look at new season names to be true.
But maybe quarters could have latin names? Like primus, secundus, tertius and quartus.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 06, 2017, 07:32:33 AMThe rewards for the caravan requests though... Do anyone actually bother with them when the rewards are somewhat useless?
Right now I am making 11 spears to get 4111 units of silver - it seems like a perfect deal to me (because I will make spears out of wood). But many of such deals are sometime useless because I cant even lay my hands on what they are asking for.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 06, 2017, 07:51:41 AM
Quote from: O Negative on May 06, 2017, 04:15:47 AMI'll take "1st Day of 2nd Quarter" over "1st Day of Aprimay" any day.
I completely agree on that. I play for couple of days with A17 and still cant get used to "Decembary". It makes me cringe a bit every time I look at new season names to be true.
I agree with this. I honestly dont understand why these fancy and CONFUSING names. 1st quarter, 2nd quarter, 3rd quarter, 4th quarter sounds good.
PS: megatherium...
Currently doing a playthrough where all pawns have the 'wimp' trait to test it out,
One thing I noticed is that wimps get the same 'pain debuff' as other pawns.
For example, if a wimp pawn and a non-wimp pawn both have say, 15% pain, they'll both get 'in little pain, -5'
I think a wimp pawn should get more of a debuff even if it's the same pain, since, well, they're wimps.
I got one complaint; Apparently having a sterile hospital do diddely in the latest build. Got 4 infections one after the other after a fight.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/547140/Rimworld/SterileHospitalDoesNothingpt2.jpg)
There's dirt in your hospital. You don't just need tiles, you also need to frequently clean it of dirt, blood, etc.
Also, from the look of things it looks like the treatments aren't exactly of the highest quality, which also effects infection rates last I checked.
Although, four does kinda seem like a lot.
Just having the tiles sterile won't help if they are covered in crap :P
Not sure if this is a bug or feature, but wild healroot does not seem to spawn in tropical rainforests.
Edit: Couple more observations:
-Typing when naming savegames is slow, with a noticeable delay between pressing the key and the character appearing
-Pawns ordered to prioritize mining only stay at the job for a few seconds before wandering off making it necessary to micromanage a pawn to force them to mine a chunk
Could the caravan requests and bandit/stash events restricted behind requiring a comms console?
There's quite a few events actually that should be placed behind a comms console just for the sheer fact it doesn't make sense otherwise how they'd contact you in the first place. How is an already-established faction somehow getting a hold of this group of stragglers who just recently crashlanded with no means of communication, let alone know they exist currently?
Either have a variant of these events where visitors from that faction come and tell you directly about the deal, or keep it behind the comms console so I'm not sitting here wondering how they're contacting the group that landed a few days ago.
ok tynan i am sure you have already seen the luciferium zombie post on reddit (if you haven't https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/69kquo/ive_created_a_monster/)
i think this is one of those times were you look at a bug and say "yup that's feature"
The new trading interface is extremely spammy.
I killed a handful of elephants, which led to this: http://i.imgur.com/YNZwz6J.jpg
All of my ~2916 pieces of elephant meat have the exact same amount of hitpoints. This isn't a huge amount of food by any means (day 17), yet it is screen filling.
Please condense the interface and consolidate the stacks. Not every stack of food needs its own separate listing in the trading or caravan screen.
I just realized after researching turrets on my most current playthrough, how much of an indirect buff having such strong infections is to what I, PERSONALLY think is downright cheesy and boring automated killboxes.
My go to strat this time around was to make a death corridor from the get go and never looked back, which in turn suddenly made the whole game a lot easier.
My point is, i would like to still have the option of duking it out with my colonists through tactics instead of relying on the distinctly better option of a strategic defense emplacement without feeling like i'm gimping myself too much because a greatbow cut infected my dude which in turn went berserk due to pain and beat the only doctor into a pulp, which then made him hide in his room for a day when i have no one capable of arresting him and reluctantly getting him back to work and you see what i'm getting at here....
Problems with colonists are exponential, turrets getting blown up are not, and it's specially sad because the small squad combat in this game is amazingly fun.
On the subject of season names i'm a very if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of person, and while it probably makes a lot of sense to have the new naming system, for the average person like me it just obfuscates things, but in the end it's whatever.
On mining i like that i have to micro a bit more an this is just a QOL thing but it would be amazing and make a lot of sense if i could assign a certain pawn to a certain vein and have no one else go at it with these changes, specially since prioritizing someone to mine a node doesn't guarantee that he will stay there until the job is done right now.
Thanks for all your hard work Tygan and co.
Quote from: whitebunny on May 06, 2017, 01:19:35 PM
On the subject of season names i'm a very if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of person, and while it probably makes a lot of sense to have the new naming system, for the average person like me it just obfuscates things, but in the end it's whatever.
But it was broke! It didn't make sense anywhere except in the range of 20 degrees north through 80 degrees north, on planets with default temperature and rainfall settings.
Anyway maybe I'll just change them to standard month names and skip months.
What about a simple day counter, Day 4 and so on. Then just give warnings when winter is coming. other seasons as well. and/or a simple seasonal icon.
I posted this in the suggestions thread but thought I would crosspost here in case it gets missed:
My concern is not so much with the names of the seasons (though I really like the latin suggestions!) but that seasons are now called quadrums. Many ancient earth calendars recognized there were 4 seasons. Even for civilizations living close to the equator. And in modern times we refer to the holiday season and peak season and shoulder season which are not necessarily tied to weather at all. So I don't think it is confusing to stick to calling each 15 day period a season.
Otherwise I have enjoyed playing the new update so far. One of my colonists got an infection from a gunshot, but treating him promptly with medicine he got over it quickly. It wasn't much different than treating the plague or the flu.
I'm more than a bit disappointed the Beep-Boop sound is still as overused as it is.
The death of a colonist is not as mundane as the end of a party, as getting food poisoning, as having a pair of pants worn away to nothing. Yet for some reason, they all use the same sound notification.
It just cheapens the characters that make the story RimWorld is trying to tell.
"But it was broke! It didn't make sense anywhere except in the range of 20 degrees north through 80 degrees north"
But does it have to make any sense, now it's mainly unclimatic! :p
Recruiting prisoners doesn't make sense, but it's good as a mechanic, it's fun = not broken.
You can see the local season by mousing over the date.
Also, the season-changing alerts are still present.
I am changing some things so the quadrum/season alignment is a bit more sensible too.
I just visited friendly village for second time and was surprised: it's trading inventory did not changed at all (same ammount of silver and same goods... even simple meals that I sold them were untouched). It looks strange because my last visit was long time ago (not sure how long - maybe half a year or more).
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 01:28:15 PM
Quote from: whitebunny on May 06, 2017, 01:19:35 PM
On the subject of season names i'm a very if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of person, and while it probably makes a lot of sense to have the new naming system, for the average person like me it just obfuscates things, but in the end it's whatever.
But it was broke! It didn't make sense anywhere except in the range of 20 degrees north through 80 degrees north, on planets with default temperature and rainfall settings.
Anyway maybe I'll just change them to standard month names and skip months.
Maybe a lot of us were missing it, but could you explain what was broke about the previous naming system?
Also, could we not just skip the names entirely (is this even Earth?) and refer to seasons by what to expect weather-wise? 'Hot Season', 'Cold Season', etc? It's less engaging but it solves the confusion of hemispheres and seasons not lining up.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 06, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
I just visited friendly village for second time and was surprised: it's trading inventory did not changed at all (same ammount of silver and same goods... even simple meals that I sold them were untouched). It looks strange because my last visit was long time ago (not sure how long - maybe half a year or more).
The reset interval is quite a bit longer than it was. But they will reset eventually.
This is slightly off-topic from the discussion around the season changing, but body part loss seems to be much more common in this alpha. This is something I both like and dislike (the latter being because particularly in combat with manipulations newfound weight on shooting accuracy, and the way the pre-curves and post-processing is set up, the slightest hindrance will make that colonist a terrible shot unless they're drugged/bionic or careful - although this is perfectly logical, even missing a finger can be crippling, but it's probably just me being very fussy. Melee is OK though).
Just 75 days in, these are the following body part losses on all 5 of my colonists...
Mie: Nose, Left arm, Spine, Left big toe
Bear: Right ear, one rib, Right leg, Left leg
Gorilla: Left lung, left big doe
Syd: Left eye, Left ear, Left ring finger, Right index finger, Left pinky
Cuevas: Nose, Left arm, one rib, Left big toe
I've never had this much body part loss in such a short span of time in any of my A16 runs, modded or not, insane difficulty or not. This run's only been on Rough xD
Xeo - that's really strange, I haven't done anything to change that that I know of. That said, stuff does creep in. (Edit: In my bad memory I may recall a rebalance on some body part sizes. I will have to check the logs.)
If anyone else can shed light on body part loss I'd be appreciative.
I'm also pushing a new build right now. Main change is:
-Better alignment and tooltip explanation of seasons/quadrums
Can confirm. I'm missing 6 fingers/toes after 6 raids, spread over 6 colonists/prisoners. This is way more than what I'd usually miss.
Torsos seem to get hit less. Internal organs (blood filtrating kidneys and livers especially...) seem to get hit more.
I have had the same issue. small bodyparts like fingers\thumbs\toes\ears\nose seem to be taken out at an alarming rate (For those who still want to keep testing with the same colony, you can heal it by using the dev menu and healing the torso - that will restore the entire body).
Has malaria always been this bad? One of my pawns got it and despite being holed up continuously in bed in a spotless hospital being treated within seconds of him needing tending every time using herbal meds with a skill 6 doctor he still was not able to reach immunity before dying. He did have a major artery blockage in his heart though, which leads to a -15% blood filtration. Perhaps this was the cause? Still it kind of sucks that I threw all my medicine at him and did everything right, and still he died (or would have if I had not have cheated when he reached 99% disease progression).
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 04:03:09 PM
I'm also pushing a new build right now. Main change is:
-Better alignment and tooltip explanation of seasons/quadrums
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact you are still referring to "seasons/quadrums" suggests you should just drop the whole quadrums thing and stick to seasons. A season is literally just a period of time. I mean we have sports seasons, hunting seasons, holiday seasons, off seasons, etc. in the modern world and no one thinks those are necessarily associated with climate/weather. Also in many ancient calendars seasons were based on growing, planting, harvesting. Not so much to do with climate or the weather. So you could easily have 4 seasons even in an equatorial environment. They could be based on anything in Rimworld. The season of raids. The season of muffalo. The season of drop pods. Etc. Lol
By "seasons/quadrums" I mean "seasons and quadrums", as in I made adjustments to both of them together.
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 04:38:18 PM
Also in many ancient calendars seasons were based on growing, planting, harvesting. Not so much to do with climate or the weather.
I do believe these activities are quite closely related to climate... Try telling an Inuit about "planting season" and "harvest season" and see how meaningful that is to him.
Anyway, again, seasons are still in the game and you can easily tell what season you're in. The game also announces seasons as they begin IIRC. But there has to be a global date system, otherwise it's impossible to make sense of time. E.g. "This person died on X day of Y season" is meaningless when you have moved across the planet and the place you're in has totally inverted or different seasons than the place he died. There are lots of examples like this. Seasons are not usable as a global date system, which is why don't use them for that in real life either.
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 04:38:18 PM
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 04:03:09 PM
I'm also pushing a new build right now. Main change is:
-Better alignment and tooltip explanation of seasons/quadrums
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact you are still referring to "seasons/quadrums" suggests you should just drop the whole quadrums thing and stick to seasons. A season is literally just a period of time. I mean we have sports seasons, hunting seasons, holiday seasons, off seasons, etc. in the modern world and no one thinks those are necessarily associated with climate/weather. Also in many ancient calendars seasons were based on growing, planting, harvesting. Not so much to do with climate or the weather. So you could easily have 4 seasons even in an equatorial environment. They could be based on anything in Rimworld. The season of raids. The season of muffalo. The season of drop pods. Etc. Lol
Que? Growing, planting and harvesting are completely dependent on the climate and weather.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 04:03:09 PM
Xeo - that's really strange, I haven't done anything to change that that I know of. That said, stuff does creep in. (Edit: In my bad memory I may recall a rebalance on some body part sizes. I will have to check the logs.)
If anyone else can shed light on body part loss I'd be appreciative.
I'm also pushing a new build right now. Main change is:
-Better alignment and tooltip explanation of seasons/quadrums
Yeah, I'm experiencing that myself. My melee colonist has lost a body part in nearly every fight she's been in. She's lost both ears, two toes, and a finger in a little over a season. (Speaking of which, it's still crazy to me that animals can hit any body part regardless of size. Neck wounds from a rabid turtle are mind-boggling.)
As for the season name discussion, after experimenting with various other merged month names, I recommend going with the actual months, but give each month just 5 days. I think people would understand that quicker than seasons, quadrants, hybrid names, or skipped months.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 04:41:46 PM
By "seasons/quadrums" I mean "seasons and quadrums", as in I made adjustments to both of them together.
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 04:38:18 PM
Also in many ancient calendars seasons were based on growing, planting, harvesting. Not so much to do with climate or the weather.
I do believe these activities are quite closely related to climate... Try telling an Inuit about "planting season" and "harvest season" and see how meaningful that is to him.
Anyway, again, seasons are still in the game and you can easily tell what season you're in. The game also announces seasons as they begin IIRC. But there has to be a global date system, otherwise it's impossible to make sense of time. E.g. "This person died on X day of Y season" is meaningless when you have moved across the planet and the place you're in has totally inverted or different seasons than the place he died. There are lots of examples like this. Seasons are not usable as a global date system, which is why don't use them for that in real life either.
Climate was the wrong word to use. I was referring to the tilt of the earth that causes seasons to change. Ancient seasons were not necessarily calculated by that.
In an equatorial climate where you can grow food year round you might have multiple growing seasons over the course of the year. You see that for example in the ancient Hebrew calendar. They had several seasons based on the crops they grew. Barley was one. Can't recall the other.
It's your game, of course. I just feel adding quandrums is over complicating things and causing added confusion for players.
Equatorial climates typically have two seasons - wet and dry.
Currently the game only outputs the 4 temperate seasons, but I'd like for it to actually name the local seasons more accurately. There would be 3 basic regimes:
--4 seasons
--Wet and dry season
--No seasons (desert, high polar regions)
There are probably others as well. I'd have to do some research.
Anyway the upshot is that you really cannot use this sort of local climactic pattern as a global calendar.
But you do need a global calendar. The main options I see are:
-Quadrum names as now
-Use real month names and skip 2/3
-Some other quadrum names (maybe latinized numbers - unumber, duember, etc or something better).
-1st quarter, 2nd quarter
-No month or quadrums, just use "1st day of year", "23rd day of year", etc.
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
O Negative started a thread to brainstorm ideas for quadrum names here:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32177.0
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:07:03 PM
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
How about a Julian date calendar - adjusted so that day one is the day you crash land (vs January 1, 4713 BC).
RimWorld is a story engine rather than a game and in most cultures calendars are named after major characters in stories (usually Gods/Goddesses). So, why not name the months in RimWorld after major characters in particularly memorable RimWorld stories that you've heard over the years? I suppose the only downside is the potential of playing favorites but I suppose you could help fix that by having a vote or some other mechanism. You could even include references to the stories somehow.
My only other comment is that I agree that calendar and season are different, but I also think it's important to communicate both to the player in an obvious, clear fashion. If the game can accurately generate weather appropriate for a season, it should be able to describe that season in some way, whether it's a name, numbers, icons, etc.
Tynan, random skill checks are getting a bit frustrating (according to the people over on the Steam forums).
See, here's the thing. The more random skill checks RimWorld does, the more we see how pseudo-random number generation is not fun. Like when a level 12 constructor fails to build a cooler three times in a row and then the colony just dies from heatwave. Again, example provided by the Steam forums.
In that particular example, the problem is that the level 12 constructor is having to roll at all to build something which should not be difficult for them.
You only really want to introduce randomness (and thus a random skill check) when actual difficulty is present. Otherwise, failure is not dramatic at all, it's simply everywhere.
In addition, buildings which can breakdown (like a cooler) already have a maintenance cost over time. It seems like a double whammy if they are both difficult to build and maintain.
Sorry, I think you misunderstand me, Tynan. I am merely refering to the term "quandrum" not the system you are using to create actual climate and seasons in the game. I think the latter makes total sense and is an excellent addition to the game. My issue was simply with the term "quadrum." I feel "season" conveys the same information without being confusing to players. Or perhaps "quarter" if you really want to use something different. I don't think enough people are familiar enough with the term quadrum to understand what it means.
I get the part about infections being more frequent, but are they supposed kill you so quickly? I had a guy die at 33% infection. This early it would be impossible to even save him so an unlucky infection would just outright mean death.
(http://i.imgur.com/0w1Jy5S.png)
While I don't disagree that quadrum is kind of an awkward term, I don't know that I think that's reason enough to change it. I doubt many people could guess what a spelopede is either until they've encountered them in Rimworld, but once you've had colonists gnawed on by one a few times, you'll probably remember.
Same with Thrumbo, warg, and other uncommon or straight up made-up terms used in Rimworld. If Tynan sticks with quadrum, I'm sure we'll get used to it.
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 05:30:43 PM
Sorry, I think you misunderstand me, Tynan. I am merely refering to the term "quandrum" not the system you are using to create actual climate and seasons in the game. I think the latter makes total sense and is an excellent addition to the game. My issue was simply with the term "quadrum." I feel "season" conveys the same information without being confusing to players. Or perhaps "quarter" if you really want to use something different. I don't think enough people are familiar enough with the term quadrum to understand what it means.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
Marvin - Since I removed the mining failures, there actually aren't any new random fail checks in this build. These checks might still be problematic in general but this wouldn't be something new. I think we should watch and let the feedback mature before making a move on this.
Yup my people keep losing fingers and ears as well. Easily.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 06, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
While I don't disagree that quadrum is kind of an awkward term, I don't know that I think that's reason enough to change it. I doubt many people could guess what a spelopede is either until they've encountered them in Rimworld, but once you've had colonists gnawed on by one a few times, you'll probably remember.
Same with Thrumbo, warg, and other uncommon or straight up made-up terms used in Rimworld. If Tynan sticks with quadrum, I'm sure we'll get used to it.
Oh, I suspect I will just have to get used to it. Lol
I will point out, though, that spelopedes, wargs, and thrumbos are unique creatures. They do not already have other perfectly useful words to describe them. ;)
On the subject of the Julian calendar, it should probably be mentioned that July and August were added after all the rest - because of Julia - a powerful aristocratic family in Rome. I'm guessing that very few others were annoyed by those months being used, but meh. 10 months just makes more sense.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:46:32 PM
Marvin - Since I removed the mining failures, there actually aren't any new random fail checks in this build. These checks might still be problematic in general but this wouldn't be something new. I think we should watch and let the feedback mature before making a move on this.
One idea for construction, is having multiple checks and any failed checks just adds extra work to the task. With maybe several checks in row causing a failure. I only mention this because I have did a few jobs around the house like new A/C or new Window, and sometimes I have "failed at something or not thought about it correctly", but then I end up figuring a new way around it, so ultimately it works out. This way a minor failure might just add an hour or two and not lead to ultimate failure.
Sorry for back to back posts, but this is totally changing topics...
I was just hoping that in this release or a future one that crafting would be slightly redesigned where my colonists would not necessary have the same passion for smith, tailor, and craft type jobs. Because quite frankly I cannot see someone interested in making clothes also thinking make guns or swords to be cool too. Essentially even if they all use the same skill there passion should be based on type of work.
The other way you could change this is too have crafting changed to smithing, sewing, and crafting skills.
By the way Tynan keep up the fabulous work.
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 05:51:37 PMI will point out, though, that spelopedes, wargs, and thrumbos are unique creatures. They do not already have other perfectly useful words to describe them. ;)
Warg actually isn't made up, at least by Tynan; Tolkien is responsible for popularizing the word, from an Old Norse word for wolf, and in a lot of contexts the term is just used to refer to giant wolves, AKA dire wolves.
Shit, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. Wargs may be about to go the way of the megatherium...
Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 06, 2017, 06:30:36 PM
Shit, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. Wargs may be about to go the way of the megatherium...
Mehni will save us. He already made a mod that saves the glorious Megatherium from a paltry Megasloth demise
Regarding body part injuries, on Day 181 I have 11 colonists...
- Two still have all of their body parts (but both came with scars so their capacities still aren't 100%
- Four have 100% manipulation
- Five have 0% pain
- Six have 100% sight
I'm definitely seeing organs injuries much more frequently than I was before. But that change I like - it makes sense that people getting shot in the torso get organ injuries. But it does up the risk of death since some organs are instant death if they're destroyed.
edit: and checking diffs, body part coverage was definitely changed in a way that would affect this. Fingers look like they have about 4x more absolute coverage, eyes about 2.5x.
(http://i.imgur.com/axwZI33.jpg?1)
If you get hit, you'll likely get infected.
If one of those hits happened to get hit in the liver or kidney, you're dead.
Somewhat related: Is it me, or are raids bigger now?
Quote from: Zhentar on May 06, 2017, 06:42:56 PM
edit: and checking diffs, body part coverage was definitely changed in a way that would affect this. Fingers look like they have about 4x more absolute coverage, eyes about 2.5x.
Yeah, I was thinking about it more and I did increase these coverages. I think the coverages there make sense in general, but I may have to reduce them just for game balance. At least on humans.
Oh, as a Chinese， I beg you to do not use quarter. Because "quarter å£åº¦" and "season å£èŠ‚" are similar and easily confusing in Chinese. :p
What about quadrant? There are 4 quadrant of the planet's orbital.
East-quadrant
West-quadrant
South-quadrant
North-quadrant
And what changed today update?
really disappointed in the amount of nitpicking being done over the season/month hoopla.
The changes were made to reflect the accuracy of the GLOBE. Anyone who noticed that Tynan added timezones to the globe and progressively creeping day/night cycle across the globe could plainly see he wants an accurate representation of the GLOBE, not just simple "its cold, its hot, its light, its dark."
The new names are odd, but completely intuitive. I'm pretty sure EVERYONE seeing "Aprimay" is PERFECTLY aware that it intends to specify the time period encompassed by April and May. Which means anyone significantly up the northern hemisphere is experiencing Spring, and anyone significantly in the Southern hemisphere knows is Fall. They now accurately reflect seasons (if any) throughout the entirety of the globe, which is a big step for the "realism" crowd, and a minor inconvenience of relearning season names AT WORST for the "gameplay trumps all" crowd.
I like the step towards accurate representation of seasonal forces on a global scale, and the real-life relevance of the feel of the season names either being comfortable or uncomfortable depending on where a player lives in real life and where they settled on the planet.
Seasons don't translate in date readout tip.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Quote from: duduluu on May 06, 2017, 08:51:27 PM
Seasons don't translate in date readout tip.
Already reported! Will be fixed.
Was there any work done on animal Carrying capacity in this build? (all animals only carry 75 items instead of whats listed under their descriptions for Alpha16)
Just curious, I know its still Alpha :)
Quote from: Vlyxnol on May 06, 2017, 08:59:53 PM
Was there any work done on animal Carrying capacity in this build? (all animals only carry 75 items instead of whats listed under their descriptions for Alpha16)
Just curious, I know its still Alpha :)
Is this a bug you're reporting? Sounds like a bug, can you elaborate? I haven't heard of that.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 09:02:48 PM
Is this a bug you're reporting? Sounds like a bug, can you elaborate? I haven't heard of that.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=24751.msg253910#msg253910
I guess its not really a bug, the problem is pawns cannot carry multiple stacks.
I wonder if the early deaths from Infection and the multiple Construction failures are related. Do you think the game is checking for end events in the middle of things like infection, construction, etc?
I've also noticed people seem to be failing constructions more often, many times just a third or halfway through building it.
Quote from: CoyoteWAN on May 06, 2017, 06:20:36 PM
Sorry for back to back posts, but this is totally changing topics...
I was just hoping that in this release or a future one that crafting would be slightly redesigned where my colonists would not necessary have the same passion for smith, tailor, and craft type jobs. Because quite frankly I cannot see someone interested in making clothes also thinking make guns or swords to be cool too. Essentially even if they all use the same skill there passion should be based on type of work.
The other way you could change this is too have crafting changed to smithing, sewing, and crafting skills.
By the way Tynan keep up the fabulous work.
I think you're unfairly limiting people here. If there's one thing "maker" culture has brought home for me, it's that once you take away the gender norms (like sewing being for women and machining being for men) and allow people to engage creatively, there are a lot of people who enjoy making anything at all.
And I'm one of 'em. From drapes to furniture; I build stuff.
Then again, maybe that's the difference between 1-teardrop passion and 2-teardrop passion.
Anyway; I keep running into this (UI bug?): When I have stacks of stuff, they don't consolidate properly in the trade window. I thought maybe it was because they had different remaining HP, but going through my storage room, everything is 100/100 and some things do stack normally. (Cotton cloth.)
My best guess is that Simple Meals are getting divided up by ingredients type or remaining shelf life or something (?).
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
I also noticed the 'high skill pawns have multiple failures in a row' thing, and it definitely feels like a change from A16.
I just lost a game to my first A17 psychic ship...no spoilers, lets just say some strategies that worked well in A16 may need to be rethought :) A17 combats seem to be harder across the board than A16 , Randy Extreme is proving to be quite a challenge now!
Ken
One of the changes from A16 to A17 is that generally, bigger numbers are better. So, success rate rather than failure chance.
I had a peek at the construct fail thing in the job driver for finishing frames when I was making a mod for A17. It seems fine, but here's a worked example:
Lyn the builder has skill 14 in Construction.
She has some minor scars, but a buff to her construction speed because of good mood. Speed is 265%.
Her construction success rate is 95%.
Let's say she's building a wooden double bed. This requires 21 work to complete.
Failure is assessed during the building process. The RNG must roll lower than 1 - SuccessRate^(Speed/TotalWork) to fail the construction. In this case, it must roll lower than about 0.00645.
Now let's say that we give Setsu, a builder with level 3 skill in Construction, this same job.
Success rate 88%, Speed 125%
In this case the RNG needs to roll lower than 0.00752.
I'm not sure if faster construction speed means fewer chances to fail, because construction progress fills up quicker per work cycle with Lyn doing the job. If you take speed difference into account, Lyn has fewer rolls and therefore a much lower cumulative chance to fail.
As the amount of work to finish a job increases, the exponent in the calculation significantly decreases which means a much lower fail chance per work cycle, but obviously more chances for that individual worker to fail that job.
This is what I got when first open, using Linux
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:07:03 PM
Equatorial climates typically have two seasons - wet and dry.
Currently the game only outputs the 4 temperate seasons, but I'd like for it to actually name the local seasons more accurately. There would be 3 basic regimes:
--4 seasons
--Wet and dry season
--No seasons (desert, high polar regions)
There are probably others as well. I'd have to do some research.
Anyway the upshot is that you really cannot use this sort of local climactic pattern as a global calendar.
But you do need a global calendar. The main options I see are:
-Quadrum names as now
-Use real month names and skip 2/3
-Some other quadrum names (maybe latinized numbers - unumber, duember, etc or something better).
-1st quarter, 2nd quarter
-No month or quadrums, just use "1st day of year", "23rd day of year", etc.
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
Why not just solve it the same way you do IRL?
The names of the months are only part of the calendar, and the sun, earth, moon, and stars couldn't really give a rat's ass about the calendar when it comes to seasons and weather.
Wow, this plague is deadly.
- On day 25 I had plague event pop up (3 people affected). Clean hospital, rest untill healed, lvl 6 doctor, lots of herbal medicine (and even 3 units of normal medicine) - best that my tribe could provide.
- On day 26 I had to fight off big raid. Only couple of very light injuries, but everybody had to fight (so no bed rest for couple of hours).
- On day 27 it was obvious that nobody will survive so in desperation I gave them luciferium (I had just 3 units from some raider) when plague was at ~75%.
- On day 28 two people died (both on 91% immunity) and one survived (plague stoped at 98%). Age: 22 (survived), 28 (dead), 44 (dead).
There seems to be too much food growing on my maps..I've only played boreal but there was so many berry bushes and healroot popping up that I didnt notice I landed on a Never planting season area for the first season or two. Anyone else have tons of berries and healroot?
Quote from: Topper on May 07, 2017, 06:52:49 AMAnyone else have tons of berries and healroot?
I am playing in boreal forest right now. I dont think that there is too much of wild plants. First two seasons they were helping me alot, but in the middle of the winter I could survive only by hunting. Ammounts of berries close to my base were too low to feed even 3 people.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 07, 2017, 07:12:41 AM
Quote from: Topper on May 07, 2017, 06:52:49 AMAnyone else have tons of berries and healroot?
I am playing in boreal forest right now. I dont think that there is too much of wild plants. First two seasons they were helping me alot, but in the middle of the winter I could survive only by hunting. Ammounts of berries close to my base were too low to feed even 3 people.
Playing on boreal forest too. The amount of wild plants seem to be just perfect. Not nearly enough to feed a tribe of 5 on its own, but with hunting it's absolutely perfect. On warmer maps though, it seems to be rather abundant. Maybe that's the way it should be though? The temperate areas are supposed to be fairly easy.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:07:03 PM
Equatorial climates typically have two seasons - wet and dry.
Anyway the upshot is that you really cannot use this sort of local climactic pattern as a global calendar.
But you do need a global calendar. The main options I see are:
-Quadrum names as now
-Use real month names and skip 2/3
-Some other quadrum names (maybe latinized numbers - unumber, duember, etc or something better).
-1st quarter, 2nd quarter
-No month or quadrums, just use "1st day of year", "23rd day of year", etc.
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
I am a big fan of KISS, keep it simple stupid.
That's why my preference: 1st quarter, 2nd quarter etc. That makes the most sense and is completely intuitive. Unlike basically all the alternatives.
Played about a year. Cassandra/intense.
4 raids. All come without high quality weapons or armors.
Already lose a lots of body parts - most of pawns without some fingers, etc. Starter labrador lost nose, tail, front paw and kidney... sigh.
Infections is frequent but manageable with skill 10 doctor and herbs.
Foraging even crappier than before. 10 berries from bush instead of 30 and still must do it manually? Sorry, but no, fields of rice still my choice - 2 steps from freezer and no need in MM.
Alpacas now give 150 wool instead of 120. Muffalos give 12 milk(was 6).
Didnt check cows/pigs/chicks - probably some good changes here too.
Got some new quests. 2 times near settlements ask me for caravan of bricks(~800) - imho too early. One time they gave me coords of neurotraineer stash. Also too early. Not a first year entertainment. :P
About seasons. New names frustrating. I wish "X day of year" with "(spring/summer/autumn/winter)" or "(wet/dry)" addition.
Infections causing reduced part efficiency is, quite literally, killing me. Or at least my colonists and prisoners.
There's no reason this prisoner (https://i.imgur.com/4U26aiT.jpg) should've died, other than the reduced part efficiency. She was beating the infection after a dose or two of regular medicine. At 26/40 HP, her torso was at 65% efficiency and the infection lowered it by a flat 70%. It's pretty inexplicable to me.
I had the same thing with infections in kidneys and livers. They seem to be more common now and they strongly reduce blood filtration. You can't survive an infection in either of those body parts.
This could just be me, but it looks like fires no longer trigger rain?
I had a dry thunderstorm which I ignored because normally, it rains before it gets too bad. It didn't rain even when nearly 5/8th of the map burned down. I only realized this about half a day after the thunderstorm ended, when the fire finally reached my base and burned everything down
Quote from: AllenWL on May 07, 2017, 09:28:37 AM
This could just be me, but it looks like fires no longer trigger rain?
I had a dry thunderstorm which I ignored because normally, it rains before it gets too bad. It didn't rain even when nearly 5/8th of the map burned down. I only realized this about half a day after the thunderstorm ended, when the fire finally reached my base and burned everything down
Yup, had a boomalope manhunter pack and decided to engage them far away from the compound to give Cassandra enough time to put out the ensuing firestorm.
That was the end of that colony, rain never came.
I have grow zones reporting that they're in season, even though they're not. Maybe a temperature triggers it? Not 100% aware of the season changes behind the scenes?
http://imgur.com/a/8PUTb
Quote from: shentino on May 07, 2017, 04:38:05 AM
Why not just solve it the same way you do IRL?
The names of the months are only part of the calendar, and the sun, earth, moon, and stars couldn't really give a rat's ass about the calendar when it comes to seasons and weather.
That's exactly what the current quadrum system is...
Quote from: myfirstme on May 07, 2017, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:07:03 PM
Equatorial climates typically have two seasons - wet and dry.
Anyway the upshot is that you really cannot use this sort of local climactic pattern as a global calendar.
But you do need a global calendar. The main options I see are:
-Quadrum names as now
-Use real month names and skip 2/3
-Some other quadrum names (maybe latinized numbers - unumber, duember, etc or something better).
-1st quarter, 2nd quarter
-No month or quadrums, just use "1st day of year", "23rd day of year", etc.
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
I am a big fan of KISS, keep it simple stupid.
That's why my preference: 1st quarter, 2nd quarter etc. That makes the most sense and is completely intuitive. Unlike basically all the alternatives.
I disagree on this. Numbered quarters would work great for timekeeping, but they don't intuitively map to particular times of the year. Is the first quarter northern-hemisphere Winter or Spring? What season is the third quarter? Even in the seasonal climate I'm used to thinking in, I'll always have to pause and mentally convert the number to a time of year. "Decembary" sounds odd but I immediately understand what time of year it's associated with.
Although... come to think of it, that problem could be solved pretty easily via UI. If instead of "8th of Aprimay" it said "8th of Aprimay (spring)" or even "8th of Duember (spring)" I'd still get that intuitive understanding.
Quote from: Zhentar on May 07, 2017, 10:48:20 AM
"Decembary" sounds odd but I immediately understand what time of year it's associated with.
Although... come to think of it, that problem could be solved pretty easily via UI. If instead of "8th of Aprimay" it said "8th of Aprimay (spring)" or even "8th of Duember (spring)" I'd still get that intuitive understanding.
If you choose your colony in roughly the same latitude as your IRL home you will most likely intuitively understand the relation between the calendar quadrum and the season, but others will not. However I agree that your solution "8th of Duember (spring)" is the best way of clearing up any misconceptions.
Quote from: giltirn on May 07, 2017, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: Zhentar on May 07, 2017, 10:48:20 AM
"Decembary" sounds odd but I immediately understand what time of year it's associated with.
Although... come to think of it, that problem could be solved pretty easily via UI. If instead of "8th of Aprimay" it said "8th of Aprimay (spring)" or even "8th of Duember (spring)" I'd still get that intuitive understanding.
If you choose your colony in roughly the same latitude as your IRL home you will most likely intuitively understand the relation between the calendar quadrum and the season, but others will not. However I agree that your solution "8th of Duember (spring)" is the best way of clearing up any misconceptions.
Except tynan has stated many times that for a large portion of the globe, there is no spring. calling it spring when you're settled on the equator or poles not only has no meaning, it IMPLIES a certain kind of weather that won't exist...misinformation.
Crossposting this play story from another thread:
I had malaria strike two colonists at the same time last night; No big deal, as I'd been hoarding my good medicine pretty tightly; Except one of those colonists was almost two days away, on a quick caravan to a neighbor. So I had that colonist buy a few shitty herbal meds and self-treat; Unfortunately, I had to wait until she'd gotten a full tile away from the camp she was visiting before I could "settle", self-treat, form a new caravan, abandon base and move on. After doing this a couple times, she made it back (after a manhunting pack of two rats; FML) at around 60% infection, where it was a damned nail-biter for my doc to break out the good meds and treat her; Luckily her room was spotless, as I hadn't yet built a dedicated medical facility; That happened as soon as both of my colonists were back on their feet (the other had a sad-wander break at about 98% immunity, so that wasn't good, but he survived just fine)
While it was a tense situation that made for a memorable story, It seems like it might be a bug of some sort for an event to strike two pawns in entirely different locations. The manhunting rats didn't strike the colony at the same time it struck the caravan, so it seems odd that malaria would hit both at the same time.
Quote from: Limdood on May 07, 2017, 11:58:49 AM
Except tynan has stated many times that for a large portion of the globe, there is no spring. calling it spring when you're settled on the equator or poles not only has no meaning, it IMPLIES a certain kind of weather that won't exist...misinformation.
Tynan has stated that as a problem that still needs to be solved, which means it's not a permanent solution. Two updates ago, latitude and longitude, real seasons, etc. were half-ass abstractions, and now he's modeling climate (among other things) on a literal global scale. Give him some time (and credit).
Quote from: Zhentar on May 07, 2017, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: shentino on May 07, 2017, 04:38:05 AM
Why not just solve it the same way you do IRL?
The names of the months are only part of the calendar, and the sun, earth, moon, and stars couldn't really give a rat's ass about the calendar when it comes to seasons and weather.
That's exactly what the current quadrum system is...
Quote from: myfirstme on May 07, 2017, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:07:03 PM
Equatorial climates typically have two seasons - wet and dry.
Anyway the upshot is that you really cannot use this sort of local climactic pattern as a global calendar.
But you do need a global calendar. The main options I see are:
-Quadrum names as now
-Use real month names and skip 2/3
-Some other quadrum names (maybe latinized numbers - unumber, duember, etc or something better).
-1st quarter, 2nd quarter
-No month or quadrums, just use "1st day of year", "23rd day of year", etc.
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
I am a big fan of KISS, keep it simple stupid.
That's why my preference: 1st quarter, 2nd quarter etc. That makes the most sense and is completely intuitive. Unlike basically all the alternatives.
I disagree on this. Numbered quarters would work great for timekeeping, but they don't intuitively map to particular times of the year. Is the first quarter northern-hemisphere Winter or Spring? What season is the third quarter? Even in the seasonal climate I'm used to thinking in, I'll always have to pause and mentally convert the number to a time of year. "Decembary" sounds odd but I immediately understand what time of year it's associated with.
Although... come to think of it, that problem could be solved pretty easily via UI. If instead of "8th of Aprimay" it said "8th of Aprimay (spring)" or even "8th of Duember (spring)" I'd still get that intuitive understanding.
I disagree with your disagreement. I personally think 1st quarter, 2nd quarter etc would be better than decembary and janumay. You said ""Decembary" sounds odd but I immediately understand what time of year it's associated with." Yeah, so do I, but a complete opposite of you I'd wager, which means the whole 'time of year' is relative, or geographical, or whatever. You said quarter's "don't intuitively map to particular times of the year. Is the first quarter northern-hemisphere Winter or Spring? What season is the third quarter?" These are flawed arguements. You could say the same thing about months. Seasons are opposite based on North and South hemispheres. I'm an Aussie so when I hear about a 'white Christmas' in December I can only dream about snow in 40C+. With quarters it's easy. I'm in this spot and the growing time is 2nd-3rd quarter. Over this zone growing time is 4th quarter. Way over there growing time is 4th-2nd quarter. And way up there growing season is never. Sure there may be different seasons in different areas but all you gotta know is what season/growing time it is for the area you're in. It's much easier to grasp a simple concept as a year split into four quarters than try to remember what some mutt bastardization of months is supposed to mean. Kudos for Tynan for thinking of something unique but I'm personally not a fan of the month naming thing.
Basically, a new Ambrosia fruit is... a fruit. However, it's considered as some hardcore drug, therefore, it cannot be cooked or added into meals.
Tynan, is it gonna be changed/fixed some day or you will leave it as it is? I mean, production of some some sort of "happy meals"(literally) would be a nice addition to game mechanics.
UPD. If I remember right, player could already do something similar, or, maybe, identical, by adding insect jelly to the meals. I don't remember if it's true, though. As far as I understand, the only property difference between ambrosia and jelly, is the type of joy it brings(chemical/gluttonous). And that ambrosia is much easier to farm, than jelly, for obvious reasons. Personally, it's kinda hard for me to consider the fruit more as a drug, than an ingredient, really.
On the topic of the new calendar, it seems to me that there's 2 pieces of information to be conveyed: how far we are through the current year & what the current (growing?) season is.
Why not just use 2 lines of text to convey that? It could be as simple as:
March 2
Spring
The Julian calendar (or whatever) could be used to track progression through the year. The local season could be calculated​ based on latitude, time of year, etc. That way it would be correct no matter where on the planet the colony is.
Just my $0.02. :)
Okay, let's please end the discussion of the date system. There's a Suggestions thread for that now. Thanks.
You can see the local seasons by mousing over the date.
Sry first up as I dont have the time to read through the 17 pages of dialoge to see if my issue has been brought to anyones attention. I fired up A17 yesterday with no mods a fresh copy and started buidling my first unmodified A17 game. Picked the tutorial crash landed starting condtions as I wanted to see if the tutorial system gave any new features away. First thing I saw was built packed dirt roads, wonderful addition makes a community walkthrough gate structures reasonable. Then a wild grove of ambroasia or whatever started to grow, now thats pretty cool I just need to find a way to grow these things now. But After building my own 7x7 house and attaching an aircon to it I noticed it wasent changing the temp inside even thou it says indoor when i move the mouse over it and outdoors when i move it away. I turned the AC on and off.... did all the IRL shit youd do. Decontructed it and rebuilt it to the other side of the room but still same effect dose not control the temp inside. Now if I had mods on id say in the past that "how rude mod" the one where pawns holds the doors open did this to my A16 games before and only until I uninstalled THAT mod.... amoung all the other mods ..... my game would go back to normal .... but this is A17 with no mods enabled... was really enjoying the new layout until this as it was just that room not the tutorial house you have to build, i built an AC for that one also and it was fine... anyways still an amazing game gonna get back to A17 with a new game not tutorial built to start with and see if I can replicate that fault again.
This isa known issue that they've tried to fix at last once i think. Rebuild one of the walls, or reload the save and that should fix it, at least for now; it's supposedly that the room isn't detecting that it's indoors, even when the tooltip says "Indoors".
I have had a prisoner for over 12 days now, she has a 67% chance to recruit. I have never had a prisoner at that low a recruitment chance take this long, maybe its just some bad RNG. She is a pessimist maybe that is affecting it. Just wanted to bring it up to see if anyone else has had any similar problems.
Also still having an issue sometimes with the temperature in freezer. I had a cooler installed. but no temp change, saved and reload it all worked fine, then added another cooler to same room and the temp went to outside temp again. saved and reloaded has been working fine ever since.
Thanks guys; I'm gonna ask ison to take another look at the freezer/region problem.
Hunting is very time intensive. If you can farm or use hydroponics, you won't need to hunt quite as much. If you can only hunt, then you will probably have to trade for food when there aren't many animals around.
I haven't noticed any increase in food consumption.
Quote from: MarvinKosh on May 07, 2017, 10:31:56 PM
Hunting is very time intensive. If you can farm or use hydroponics, you won't need to hunt quite as much. If you can only hunt, then you will probably have to trade for food when there aren't many animals around.
I haven't noticed any increase in food consumption.
Perhaps it is my imagination then, although I am not the only one who has come to the same conclusion - others on the Rimworld Reddit seem to think the same. I'm also no spring chicken - I have 125 hours of Rimworld under my belt. I know that the game has been through a rebalance pass, which I believe was intended to make it so that farming is not the only path to sustainable foods, so it would not surprise me if some of the hunger mechanics have been changed to account for the increased food availability. Again it may be my imagination but it seems that there are more animals in the world and that berries can be harvested more times throughout the year which suggests that indeed some changes have been made. It would be nice if we had access to detailed change notes for this testing period which I feel would really help alleviate such possibly phantom balance changes.
Has Rock Debris when mining been removed on purpose? I don't see it anymore.
I've not noticed more animals; about the same, honestly, though I have also noticed that berries seem to be more common .
I use a subsistence hunting pattern, where I hunt whenever animals get too close, or when my meat stores drop too low (for my current 5-person colony, I try to keep meat and veggies both above 200; that's 40 fine meals.). A few large predators from time to time, and in usually good without having to over-hunt the map.
My problem with food since A17 has been veggies, but a bunch of that is likely to be just me getting used to tv new grow times; I got too much of a surplus, so I sold some off to make room, then before I knew it, I was pretty much out of veggies. I had to send a caravan a couple of days away (because the town nearby didn't sell veggies) to buy potatoes.
I like rice as an early game crop; grows super fast (only a few days, even in A17) and lasts for a good long time even is it's not refrigerated. Usually I'll switch to corn after my first harvest, or the second growing season, but I'll usually still keep a small field of rice as a flex crop.
Quote from: Vlyxnol on May 07, 2017, 11:16:09 PM
Has Rock Debris when mining been removed on purpose? I don't see it anymore.
No they're definitely still produced. I mined out a small room earlier and it was filled with the things. I wonder if perhaps it is tied to the mining skill?
Quote from: giltirn on May 08, 2017, 12:48:30 AM
No they're definitely still produced. I mined out a small room earlier and it was filled with the things. I wonder if perhaps it is tied to the mining skill?
It shouldn't be, but if someone finds it is (with a large test) I'd be really interested!
Is there a quest tab that lists missions? I was told to bring some spears somewhere..but I cant remember which village
Still having problems with it hanging.
If you minimize, maximize, restore, or alt-tab from rimworld during world/map generation, it locks up.
Quote from: Topper on May 07, 2017, 06:52:49 AM
There seems to be too much food growing on my maps..I've only played boreal but there was so many berry bushes and healroot popping up that I didnt notice I landed on a Never planting season area for the first season or two. Anyone else have tons of berries and healroot?
Another thing is the excessive amounts of animals to hunt on the Tundra map, compared to earlier. New flocks of muffaloes etc. are coming alot more frequently during the winter then they used too before. I never fear being out of food even when playing as a tribe, and with no planting season on the coldest Tundras.
I just wanted to post that I love how the ungenerated surface of a planet now just looks like an ocean. Such an elegant solution.
Quote from: giltirn on May 08, 2017, 12:48:30 AM
No they're definitely still produced. I mined out a small room earlier and it was filled with the things. I wonder if perhaps it is tied to the mining skill?
I got the name wrong in my first post, it isn't "Rock Debris" its "Rock Rubble".
However, Rock Rubble isn't being created when mining. There is no filth being left behind when mining, only stone chunks. In Alpha16 miners would leave behind dirt on the ground called "Rock Rubble" that would need to be cleaned else it would effect beauty heavily for them.
Is this working as intended in Alpha17? Was Rock Rubble intended to be removed from game?
I know its a minor thing, but if it wasn't intended it should go up as a bug report.
Flagstone vs Tile costs?
I'm kinda curious why these would cost the same amount. I like the fact that flagstone produces fast, but shouldn't it also be cheaper in cost? I know beauty is neutral for it compared to the 1 for Tile, and that offsets the construction speed, but shouldn't the fact that you can't remove it for resources have an offset as well?
Also doesn't the slower construction speed of Tile allow for skill gain faster? I would think construction cost and construction speed should directly correlate so you gain the same amount of skill per resource spent.
Quote from: Tynan on May 08, 2017, 01:47:28 AM
Quote from: giltirn on May 08, 2017, 12:48:30 AM
No they're definitely still produced. I mined out a small room earlier and it was filled with the things. I wonder if perhaps it is tied to the mining skill?
It shouldn't be, but if someone finds it is (with a large test) I'd be really interested!
Not getting many rock chunks myself, maybe about 1 per 10 blocks mined or so. However, is it supposed to leave no rock rubble behind either? The floor is remarkably clean after mining, lol.
Quote from: ShadowTani on May 08, 2017, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Tynan on May 08, 2017, 01:47:28 AM
Quote from: giltirn on May 08, 2017, 12:48:30 AM
No they're definitely still produced. I mined out a small room earlier and it was filled with the things. I wonder if perhaps it is tied to the mining skill?
It shouldn't be, but if someone finds it is (with a large test) I'd be really interested!
Not getting many rock chunks myself, maybe about 1 per 10 blocks mined or so. However, is it supposed to leave no rock rubble behind either? The floor is remarkably clean after mining, lol.
Maybe I'm getting confused with the terminology. I mean that I have seen lots of rock chunks (possibly 1/10 although anecdotally I have seen more in some cases - perhaps it's RNG?) but I don't recall seeing rubble - I'll check it out.
There is no Ambrosia on the list of items you can store on stockpile zones. Somehow it can still make its way to the stockpile zone though.
Ambrosia is under Manufactured -> Drugs.
As far as rock rubble goes, I can confirm mining doesn't produce it.
I opened an ancient room.
There were 3 megascarabs who inmediately began to fight the scyther inside, the scarabs became hostile towards me the moment i shot them, instead of attacking automatically. (Im not sure if they began hitting the scyther before or after i attacked, the scyther was hostile to me from the beggining)
And the two guys inside the caskets jumped outside of them on their own, both with a huge amount of wounds.
Besides that, i managed to rescue one of them, who tried to walk out of the map with plenty of unnatended wounds, obviously he didnt make it.
Thats something thats being bugging me a lot lately, colonists and pawns in general give less priority to their open wounds even if they have both rest options at max.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on May 08, 2017, 03:49:26 AM
Quote from: Topper on May 07, 2017, 06:52:49 AM
There seems to be too much food growing on my maps..I've only played boreal but there was so many berry bushes and healroot popping up that I didnt notice I landed on a Never planting season area for the first season or two. Anyone else have tons of berries and healroot?
Another thing is the excessive amounts of animals to hunt on the Tundra map, compared to earlier. New flocks of muffaloes etc. are coming alot more frequently during the winter then they used too before. I never fear being out of food even when playing as a tribe, and with no planting season on the coldest Tundras.
Personally, I'm just fine with that. It's nice to have other options for feeding your colony than just "rush crops / hydroponics". After all, the Inuit could do it just fine...
Although I'm personally not seeing these additional animals in my games, unless you count bears, and hunting them has its own issues.
A new build is going up. A lot was rebalanced this build, so I'd really love to hear how the balance is now.
Please keep the feedback coming!
Change list:
---------
Second restructure of how shooting accuracy is balanced. Post-process curve now does all the work; bonuses and maluses apply the same as gaining and losing levels. High-level shooters are more valuable.
Shooting accuracy re-tuning based on feedback. Attempt 1.
Added new data analysis table maker for shooting accuracy.
Rain should come a bit more aggressively in response to fire; refactored how fire is counted a bit.
In Crashlanded and Lost Tribe scenarios, player starts with more medicine and more food.
Appended word Tended to mote from tending.
Lower difficulties now have lower infection rates.
Tending is now more effective in reducing disease severity.
Wound infections are now less deadly since immunity grows faster (0.62/day -> 0.66/day) and severity slower (0.86/day -> 0.84/day).
Reduced blights' frequency and impact to match the longer plant growing times.
Reduced raid strength and frequency overall (to compensate for new combat difficulties).
Adjusted the body part hit percentages to reduce pawns losing so many fingers/toes and getting hit in the organs all the time.
Fix: Animals following drafted master start 10 jobs/10 ticks in doorway
Fix: Fighting manhunter animals at doorways causes massive fps drop.
Fix: Tame animals with area restriction cause huge performance drops when looking for food.
Fix: Room groups are sometimes rebuilt incorrectly.
Fix: Designations on unspawned things cause errors.
Fix: Pawns can live with no head if they take enough drugs.
Fix: Food stacks are listed separately in trade windows.
Water undulates faster (0.003 -> 0.005)
Low expectations mood buffs are more powerful.
Reduced infection chances by about 1/3.
Random work failures now never happen above or at level 8 skill (without health problems). Very skiller miners can get yield bonuses.
Rewrote rich explorer text to signal how difficult it is.
Adjusted the date system so quadrum names align with temperatures better, and clarified some of the output and tooltip.
Fix 2975: Mining yield stat description outdated
Fix: Mod settings saving improperly.
Fix: Space refugees have power armor, quite often.
Fix: Pawns can live with no head if they take enough drugs.
awww, man. That was my favourite accidental feature.
QuoteAppended word Tended to mote from tending.
This reminds me: I don't recall seeing it before A17, but I often see the options to both prioritize treating and tending wounded pawns; So far as I was able to tell, these mean exactly the same thing. Does this fix have something to do with this? I honestly can't parse what this is supposed to mean.
@Tynan, Did you mean for events like bandit oputposts to be able to spawn next to settlements? Since you cant place settlements adjacent to eachother, I don't know if this would be considered a bug or not.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
What?!
The post-processed curve of shooting accuracy must be WRONG!!
21.60% -> 94.16% ?!!!
Fixed a bug, then get two bugs.... LOL
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Can't tell if this is a bug or feature; but if it is a bug i like it. When you draft colonist while they have the heatstroke health issue and tell them to stay in a area that will decrease, (ex. freezer), the heatstroke issue after the health issue goes away it un-drafts them. sounds like a bug but maybe not but i like it either way. Anyways loving Alpha 17 so far i really like the new water graphic. But there might be a little to many berry bushes i haven't really had to go on hunting sprees yet.
Quote from: duduluu on May 08, 2017, 07:09:18 PM
What?!
The post-processed curve of shooting accuracy must be WRONG!!
21.60% -> 94.16% ?!!!
Fixed a bug, then get two bugs.... LOL
Maybe not. The accuracy is per-tile, so as I understand, shooting even 10 tiles will drop that to 55%.
Quote from: Neotic on May 08, 2017, 07:40:32 PM
Can't tell if this is a bug or feature; but if it is a bug i like it. When you draft colonist while they have the heatstroke health issue and tell them to stay in a area that will decrease, (ex. freezer), the heatstroke issue after the health issue goes away it un-drafts them. sounds like a bug but maybe not but i like it either way. Anyways loving Alpha 17 so far i really like the new water graphic. But there might be a little to many berry bushes i haven't really had to go on hunting sprees yet.
Pawns will auto-undraft themselves if there aren't any threats around, if I understand correctly. Doesn't sound like a bug to me.
Rain should come a bit more aggressively in response to fire <--? Big fires are kool..I'd much perfer the weather system not be reactive.
Also how does one skill up animal handling? It seems like most common animals require 6
Quote from: giltirn on May 08, 2017, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: duduluu on May 08, 2017, 07:09:18 PM
What?!
The post-processed curve of shooting accuracy must be WRONG!!
21.60% -> 94.16% ?!!!
Fixed a bug, then get two bugs.... LOL
Maybe not. The accuracy is per-tile, so as I understand, shooting even 10 tiles will drop that to 55%.
I don't quite understand the meaning of "per-tile" in the shooting accuracy stat description. It's bothering me when translating RimWorld.
Maybe, I need Tynan to explain this.
Quote from: Topper on May 08, 2017, 08:53:08 PM
Rain should come a bit more aggressively in response to fire <--? Big fires are kool..I'd much perfer the weather system not be reactive.
Also how does one skill up animal handling? It seems like most common animals require 6
Tame small animals.
I too like big fires (#pyromaniacs). But, they can really destroy the fauna and it takes a long time for it grow back so i'm pretty neutral about this
I make a simple test. A shooting lv.0 man, he's accuracy really so high.
By the way, @Tynan, you forget to fixed seasons not translated in date tip.
Wondering if the inability to Harvest someone's eyeball was taken out or is a bug.?
QuoteRandom work failures now never happen above or at level 8 skill (without health problems). Very skiller miners can get yield bonuses.
I look for the Core, mining yield is 133% at mining lv.20, but this stat set the max value as 100%....
The bonuses cannot take effect.
Quote from: duduluu on May 08, 2017, 09:30:31 PM
I don't quite understand the meaning of "per-tile" in the shooting accuracy stat description. It's bothering me when translating RimWorld.
Maybe, I need Tynan to explain this.
It means (accuracy)^#oftiles. So if you have 90% accuracy, and the target is 3 tiles away, it's .9^3, or 0.9*0.9*0.9 = 0.729, so you have a 73% chance of hitting a target just three tiles away.
I recorded before/after accuracy stats for my badly dinged up colonists (see attached screenshot). The new numbers seem
much better to me; both health and skill are meaningfully affecting the accuracy.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Quote from: Zhentar on May 08, 2017, 10:06:07 PM
Quote from: duduluu on May 08, 2017, 09:30:31 PM
It means (accuracy)^#oftiles. So if you have 90% accuracy, and the target is 3 tiles away, it's .9^3, or 0.9*0.9*0.9 = 0.729, so you have a 73% chance of hitting a target just three tiles away.
I recorded before/after accuracy stats for my badly dinged up colonists (see attached screenshot). The new numbers seem much better to me; both health and skill are meaningfully affecting the accuracy.
Why Accuracy^3, not^2?
Just I know, in our real world, a bullet can deviate on the X axis and the Y axis, not on the Z axis. The missing should be evaluated base on square.
May be the square evaluation is incorrect. Because of the bullet's deviation is a angle.
<movementCostMultiplier>0.5</movementCostMultiplier>
Wondering why all roads have this same 0.5 multiplier? Shouldn't better roads be easier to travel on? I'm not saying they should be drastically different, maybe the best road be 0.35 and the worst be 0.65?
Also has anyone seen how to make roads ourselves? At the moment i'm assuming its not implemented but maybe I missed something.
Quote from: duduluu on May 09, 2017, 02:36:29 AM
Quote from: Zhentar on May 08, 2017, 10:06:07 PM
Quote from: duduluu on May 08, 2017, 09:30:31 PM
It means (accuracy)^#oftiles. So if you have 90% accuracy, and the target is 3 tiles away, it's .9^3, or 0.9*0.9*0.9 = 0.729, so you have a 73% chance of hitting a target just three tiles away.
I recorded before/after accuracy stats for my badly dinged up colonists (see attached screenshot). The new numbers seem much better to me; both health and skill are meaningfully affecting the accuracy.
Why Accuracy^3, not^2?
Just I know, in our real world, a bullet can deviate on the X axis and the Y axis, not on the Z axis. The missing should be evaluated base on square.
May be the square evaluation is incorrect. Because of the bullet's deviation is a angle.
This isn't a polynomial style square or cube formula. The distance being in the exponent itself means that this is a geometric progression, not polynomial.
Honestly though, it seems to fall off too rapidly.
I tried the update on a map which is divided by a river. Luckily, there was also a road which provided a 1 tile width crossing over it, but besides that - What is the intended way of getting power across water? Drying it out via moisture pump? Maybe overland lines would be a useful addition now.
Corn is definitely not "best crop ever" anymore. I really cant remember if my pawn got at least one full harvest of it in 3 games. Just right now I had 2 cold snap events during one summer that killed my corn before it could grow over 50%. In the same time my storages are full of rice because it grows faster.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 09, 2017, 06:58:49 AM
Corn is definitely not "best crop ever" anymore. I really cant remember if my pawn got at least one full harvest of it in 3 games. Just right now I had 2 cold snap events during one summer that killed my corn before it could grow over 50%. In the same time my storages are full of rice because it grows faster.
I would disagree i got over 2000 corn from one harvest in 2 5x8 (i think,maybe more) tiles. my freezer was completely full that combined with the already 1500 rice stored i was able to last until early summer till i had to think about growing more food
Anyways i have a problem with the caravan requests, they're always for me a high quantity of random stuff 1000 wood for 2000 silver. The problem is that 1000 wood is a lot can the amount of stuff be reduced somehow to like 500? Another example is 2000 smoke-leaf 4000 something silver the amount of stuff is absurd. Maybe i'm not looking at this right is that the max amount? I'm just thinking about that or maybe early game caravans isn't good idea. So basically my request is can we have simple smaller caravan requests like 300 rice for 400 silver or 450 wood for 800 silver etc.
I tried to bring agave fruit for a caravan trip in the hopes it would rot slower than regular meals, but apparently it rots in 2 days on the road as well. Can you change it so stuff that rots slower on the map also rots slower on the road?
Wow: pawns can now walk with one leg only (with ~37% speed). I hope it is not a bug. Also I can anticipate that "install peg-legs on pirates" thing will change a bit.
Quote from: Mihsan on May 09, 2017, 01:25:25 PM
Wow: pawns can now walk with one leg only (with ~37% speed). I hope it is not a bug. Also I can anticipate that "install peg-legs on pirates" thing will change a bit.
I distinctly recall that T said pawns walking with one leg is as designed.
You can hop with one leg! I think it's okay.
A new build is going up!
I really need more feedback so if anyone would start a game and tell me how it is that'd be really nice. Last update rebalanced a ton of stuff and I really need to know if it's good!
Changes since last update.
Corrected shooter accuracy calculation tables. Updated shooting accuracy description a bit.
Fix: Psychic insanity lance doesn't work if the target is sleeping.
Fix: Pawns in TradeShips are affected by the outdoor temperature.
Fix: Player doesn't always start in the earliest warm twelfth in southern hemisphere because EarliestTwelfthInAverageTemperatureRange() always starts looking from the first twelfth.
Fix: DateReadout sometimes reports incorrect date because it doesn't recache.
Fix: ListerBuildings is not notified when a building changes its faction. Fix: ListerBuildingsRepairable is updated incorrectly when a building changes its faction.
Fix: Caravan gear can sometimes disappear when swapping with equipped one.
Fix: Graves have a Claim command which doesn't do anything.
Fix 2979: Pawns can run out of path nodes while pathing to Fire
Fix: Event destinations can spawn adjacent to settlements.
Fix: It's impossible to forbid making advanced helmets of plasteel because the option is hidden. Fix: Advanced helmet uses UFT without stuff even though it's made of stuff.
Fix: Mining no longer creates rock rubble.
Add time-advance debug actions.
Remove unused generateMeleeOnly flag.
Fix: Map seeds don't generate the same result every time.
Improve ThingStuffPair text output.
LOL, started a new colony about 20 minutes before the new version, oh well, will start again!!
edit: Hmm, doesn't seem to be pushing out the update yet (even after shutting down Steam.) Will screw around with something else for a 1/2 hour or so.
I haven't been able to play today's release yet, but thanks for the updates Tynan.
I definitely "felt" the balance changes. Even on Cassandra extreme the infection rates seemed lower and much less deadly if handled properly. Faster rain in response to fire felt too easy now. I didn't notice a huge change in shooting accuracy, but I was never one to sit down and create spreadsheets over pawn stats. With a good shooter (8+ skill) they would hit about the same as always, and with horrible shooters they would still miss with a superior shotgun from one tile away. Maybe I'm missing some subtleties here though.
Played for 8 hours last night and didn't have any of the bugs with room temperature control or pawn region freezing, so thanks for that.
Sorry BlackSmoke - I forgot to set it live. The update is live now.
Skinnay - thanks for the feedback. Looking for more!
Quote from: Tynan on May 09, 2017, 03:22:24 PM
Sorry BlackSmoke - I forgot to set it live. The update is live now.
Skinnay - thanks for the feedback. Looking for more!
Thanks, loving all the updates. A17 is looking pretty great so far!
Did Tynan address the 'issue' with infections & disease being too common? or is it intended?
Quote from: Splendid on May 09, 2017, 03:41:06 PM
Did Tynan address the 'issue' with infections & disease being too common? or is it intended?
The change list is right there, so you can see everything that was addressed.
EDIT: I'm also asking that this thread remain for feedback, not open-ended suggestions. There's a whole forum for Suggestions!
With infections and diseases being much more severe a danger than before, might it be a good idea to adjust the immunity loss curve with old age?
My only issue with the game currently is the "chased by pirates" event. Does anyone at all accept them? I keep getting Irwin A Useless, age 98, riddled with cancer, broken bones, asthma, lower back pain, wandering bladder and anal leakage asking me to defeat a bunch of pirates for him. Any chance that event could be buffed a bit? Let us take a look at the characters atleast? Or give us some that wouldn't be entirely useless?
Just noticed the game dosent pause when a caravan gets to somewhere thats not 100% dangerous, EG a item stash, i just had 2 colonists nearly die because they where rushed by mad boomalopes after getting the to the item stash, that "may or may not be dangerous", i had been doing suff at my main base when i got the notification that a colonists needed rescue, swaped over and both where nearly dead
Would it be possible to have it so that the game pauses when it creates a new map for an encounter or arrival and display a notification about caravan arriving?
It says what the item stash is guarded by in the letter announcing it. I don't think it's displayed anywhere after that though, so if you miss it or forget what it said you're going in blind.
Except for when the letter says that they don't know what's guarding it. At least half of the ones I've seen have been like that.
All mine except one have said they dont know what if anything is guarding the item stash, i go assuming there is going to be blood spilled but there isnt alot i can do if my guys are already dead before i even see them!
Is the wanderer event disabled? I like to play from scratch with a single colonist and it is a bit hard now to get new people. I played for a while and only got escape pods and refugees.
Quote from: Naxdar on May 09, 2017, 06:54:43 PM
Is the wanderer event disabled? I like to play from scratch with a single colonist and it is a bit hard now to get new people. I played for a while and only got escape pods and refugees.
The base chance of a wanderer joining is set to 0.2, which is incredibly low compared to others.
RefugeePodCrash: 1.0
RefugeeChased: 2.5
Out of these three population increasing events, there's only a 5% chance of it being a wanderer joining you.
Okay. So. More regular feedback.
My playstyle on Extreme definitely changed this Alpha. The first thing I spend my silver on is sterile tiles. I'm more cautious than before, though it hasn't helped much - firefights generally last a long time this alpha.
I haven't gotten to mid/late game yet because I start over every new update, but I have noticed one thing: Raiders bring absolutely bottom of the barrel gear. They're numerous (9 raiders - mostly scavengers and thrashers - vs 5-6 colonists) but the best equipment I've seen thus far was a shoddy 51% assault rifle. Most of them bring low durability machine pistols, shotguns, some incendiary launchers and terrible survival rifles. This is why gunfights last so long; nobody can hit shit. That's not necessarily because of low-skill shooters or clever AI, it's the inaccurate low-damage weapons. That's not a bad thing per se, but it does mean I now rush machining in hopes of producing better guns. It's really hard to gear up otherwise.
Infections are a lot more manageable this iteration 0.17.1533. I'm probably going to be vilified here - but it might be too easy now. I had 8 injured pawns (including prisoners) and over 2 dozen wounds. I had begun to expect at least 6 infections but only got 2. They all survived, even the 78-year-old. This was with so-so doctors treating in a mostly clean hospital with regular medicine. It's probably a good balance for the majority of players. I'll update when I play more. I wish there was a bit more time between the two levels of extreme infection, since they seem to follow each other up real fast. I play on speed 3 though.
Silver is a lot harder to come by. Traders don't bring as much as before - and they don't buy as much either. This'll be challenging, but it's a good change I feel.
The beep-boop sound is still the worst.
Should building a snowman have a toil bar as almost every other action does? Without it a colonist looks like they're standing there doing nothing.
The game plays smoother for every patch now. :3
In regards to the infection nerf I was at first worried you might been a bit too generous as a lot of the complaints came from people that got used to A16 where it apparently was bugged out. I skipped that version pretty much (aside from a little feature testing) and it feels easier dodging them after yesterdays patch than it did in A15 where the ratio felt right. Infections was after all reasonably possible to avoid before if you kept the rooms where the injured pawns rested clean at all times, it just required a little bit of micro work until you got sterile floors and could dedicate a pawn to cleaning. Taking cleanliness seriously I've essentially been able to avoid a single case of infection on base so far. However, after further playing I felt the reduced rate made caravan missions a bit less devastating in regards to injuries. So at this point I think infections is too easily dodged at base, but have a reasonable rate outside the base. If there where easier ways to deal with cleanliness out in the wild then I'd put my vote for turning the rate a little bit up again.
As for infection severity, I think it was a bit too harsh before the patch, most of the time requiring at least one proper medicine in addition to any herbal medicine to avoid death. It wasn't terribly hard to deal with if you didn't run out of medicine imo, it just kept you on your toes in regards to ensuring your pawns didn't delay any treatments required. However, I think it's good that infections isn't such a stress as they where before, but I also think it's a shame medicine appear to no longer be needed for the job. I'd love to see more factors affecting the rates of infection and immunity honestly, but so far, for outside base infections the current severity situation seems reasonably scary, as opposed to impossible. I can't say much about on-base infection severity though because as I said earlier, I've so far managed to avoid infections entirely on the base.
Quote from: O Negative on May 09, 2017, 07:20:16 PM
Quote from: Naxdar on May 09, 2017, 06:54:43 PM
Is the wanderer event disabled? I like to play from scratch with a single colonist and it is a bit hard now to get new people. I played for a while and only got escape pods and refugees.
The base chance of a wanderer joining is set to 0.2, which is incredibly low compared to others.
RefugeePodCrash: 1.0
RefugeeChased: 2.5
Out of these three population increasing events, there's only a 5% chance of it being a wanderer joining you.
Glad to see that. I typically disable it, as I want to control whether or not I took on another survivor. Randy liked to give them to me when I was struggling to feed the mouths that I had already.
I just noticed that Randy's mtbDays was increased a fair bit. He was already a bit big-threat anemic, prone to long lulls without anything interesting happening; this will make that worse and make it even less likely to get two in short succession. Could Randy's ThreatBig weight be increased to compensate?
Amazing game you have here. I'm over 400 hours in since A15 and can't wait to see what else you have in store! I love the updates so far, and here are a couple balancing callouts I've noticed with A17.
I'm glad mining bases have been nerfed a bit, but I think they probably need to be nerfed a bit more. Deep cover is pretty amazing for heat and defense AND smooth floors give +3 to beauty. I think tile floors' beauty was changed from 2 to 1, but since smooth floors take no resources I feel like they should be 2 or 1 beauty... probably less than tile floors, really, because it's much easier to get good room stats with a bunch of +3s.
I wish there was a little more stat variety in the clothes in the game. I don't see much advantage of every making a t-shirt over a button-down, or a jacket over a duster. The small resource/work/stat difference isn't much. Maybe make the button-down more of a sweater and have it give a little more cold protection but put a heat debuff on it to make it not viable for hot biomes, for the duster make it not give any cold insulation (a wool duster has crazy stats in BOTH directions). Maybe nerf the parka a little too.
Could we get a hotkey for the environment display or change it back to the A15 style of having room stats and the beauty modifier as a separate tool?
I like the new growing changes and will require a rethinking of priorities on 10-day growing period tiles, but foraging seems overpowered. Mid-way through winter -30F on a boreal forest and there were dozens if not hundreds of raspberry plants. Didn't seem like I had to prepare for winter but could forage through it if I wanted.
Love the wild healroot, but seems like there was a lot (on a boreal forest, at least). I believe you already reduced infection rates. Might want to reduce spawn rate of healroot as a balance.
Keep it coming!!
Hit chances for animals like big cats still seem out of proportion, see attached.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
1. Those mountains over rivers/hills look weird. It should create a small valley when rivers cut through mountains. But the roads look nice. Like tunnels (though I doubt that was intended).
2. A "wimp" should not be able to also have the "brawler" trait (and vice versa) for obvious reasons.
Started a new rich explorer game on latest experimental.
My first colonist is Industrious and my second colonist is normal (not lazy), but he has the -5 "hard worker vs lazy" social opinion of her. If this is intentional it should probably be in the tooltip for industrious. My rich guy has 0 growing skills and managed to fail harvest 5 wild raspberry bushes in a row, which feels a little strange.
My second colonist is a biosphere manager who is an expert at growing but incapable of dumb labor, and plant cutting is a dumb labor. I gave her growing zones to plant some strawberries since neither can cook, and she cuts down the trees that are in the way (and gets lots of useful wood from them). This feels like an exploit, since otherwise my bad at growing first colonist would have to get the lumber -- but when they're in her growing area, she cuts the trees down very efficiently. But it also feels like not an exploit, since it would be quite tedious to not have trees in the growing zones I set up for her.
So I'm torn between feeling like I should do something tedious (no growing zones in trees), and feeling like I'm cheating somehow (free tree cuts). I could even plant trees with her and, while she wouldn't harvest them, she would happily harvest them if I switched the plant type to a different kind of crop (which I might do legitimately).
One option might be to break "dumb labor" into separate categories -- cleaning, hauling, plant cutting -- and then have backgrounds be incapable of them separately. It feels strange when my super passionate about growing colonist can't harvest her own plants...unless she wants to plant something different there.
Colonists seem to automatically cut down trees that border a growing zone rather than are in the growing zone. I think this is new behavior.
Quote from: YokoZar on May 10, 2017, 06:46:29 AM
Colonists seem to automatically cut down trees that border a growing zone rather than are in the growing zone. I think this is new behavior.
I think it's old and I personally like it.
Isn't that because the trees object size or grow size or whatever is larger than the actual object though? Much like when you're planting trees, you'll notice a quite wide spacing between them.
I'm about 2 seasons in now, and have gone from 1 to 2 colonists with another 2 crash-landed.
I have received 2 opportunities to kill bandit camps and another 2 items stash ones. There's no way I'm prepared for that yet.
I feel like these opportunities 1) shouldn't arrive so early, and 2) should probably require the communications console anyway. I haven't even seen someone from the faction that's sent me 3 tips already.
Quote from: YokoZar on May 10, 2017, 08:38:54 AM
I'm about 2 seasons in now, and have gone from 1 to 2 colonists with another 2 crash-landed.
I have received 2 opportunities to kill bandit camps and another 2 items stash ones. There's no way I'm prepared for that yet.
I feel like these opportunities 1) shouldn't arrive so early, and 2) should probably require the communications console anyway. I haven't even seen someone from the faction that's sent me 3 tips already.
Iwonder if notifications like this could be tied to visitors/caravans/passing through events?
Quote from: Tynan on May 08, 2017, 04:44:48 PM
Reduced raid strength and frequency overall (to compensate for new combat difficulties).
It feels like I'm playing Phoebe.
Day 77. The statistics tab says 9 major threats and 7 enemy raids.
It went from "My pawns don't have time to heal up between fights." to "I am bored. Let's go caravan or something."
Few things from A17:
I had colonists with right leg "torn off" and he was able to walk, bug or working as intended?
We get "caravan packing spot" but there is lack of zone or spot for trader's caravan.
Last trader went straight into my hospital with all their animals, they were going in and out over and over, making my hospital not so sterile anymore.
intended
see page 17
Quote from: FCDetonados on May 10, 2017, 11:22:42 AM
intended
see page 17
I had to install two peglegs on a prisoner (both feet shot off) before I could release him. Appreciated the medical training!
cassandra extreme, permadeath, crashlanded, tropical rainforest, day 75:
infections: i used herbal medicine at best, no sterile tile, got only one prisoner i just captured infected, 58 years old he developped immunity with herbal and lvl 11 doctor
combat: much more interesting to micro, higher skills matter, melee combat is fixed. smokepop belt are fun
quests: we get the notice really early for most of them, when you try to establish your base it's hard to think of fighting turrets to get a pool table, i still didn't venture out of my base since i would regret losing the colony due to being undermanned
siege: more intersting early when they assault your base after being hit
raids: overall more dangerous, you've to be really carefull with highly skilled raiders, so far out of six colonists one lost his left leg (glad he can still walk on it :) ). raiders bring bad weapons early, ~60 days in iirc i started getting a few good weapons
infestation: you've to deal with them asap of keep them small or...
ships: nice to use bunkers again
fauna: it seems to be unlimited early game, but usefull to train your shooters
crops: it's been my main source of silver early game
pace of the game: slower due to the economy, which is rather a good thing
I'm not a Rimworld expert by any means (less than 40 hours played, never made it to the "end" game of spaceship building), and some of this feedback is not particular to alpha 17, but here we go anyways:
1) I really wish there were a convenient way to set up a specific a "cleaning" zone so that pawns only clean indoor areas like their rooms. In the current system, pawns clean automatically in the "home" zone but there is a signficant annoyance factor here because hen your pawns frequently clean up "useless" areas like rubble out in the wild or dirt on floors which to me is extremely low priority. Especially as the base grows larger they waste so much time cleaning up outside areas whereas the interior affects the mood so much I want them to clean there and ignore outside.
I am aware you can customize the area of the home zone, and that you can also toggle automatic home zone expansion, but I have found this to be a clunky option at best because when I set the home zone just to the interior of rooms, then suddenly I don't get fire notifications that are relatively close to the base and people only auto fight fires in the interior of rooms which makes it very unsafe during fire hazards. I shouldn't have to choose between automatic cleaning (of relevant, interior rooms) vs automatic fire fighting.
One suggestion I have would be to detach automatic cleaning from the home zone, and add a new zone specifically for cleaning.
2) I play around on lower difficulties (phoebe/peaceful or up to some challenge), but I do use the tribal setting because I love the feel of low tech and I like being able to choose 5 colonists for various skills, so that is the background. Now the "problem:"
I just plain don't understand the role of caravans/the new quest system.
They seem extremely roughly balanced. For instance, I got a quest in the third season of my first year, that was bring 431 wood and get a multi-analyzer in return. I thought "awesome!!!!" and so I went to try to set up the caravan. By this point I only had 5 settlers. I chose to send away 3 of them (including doctor, best fighter, and animal handler). I was lucky enough to have tamed some muffalos so I could carry enough supplies.
The location was 16 (!) days away, so I said ooook and brought tons of corn with a 40 day rot time. My caravan got ambushed 3 days in by a manhunting pack of 8 cats (yes, cats), ( I had 3 colonists with 2 great bows and a steel shiv) and I got completely rekt. My caravan perished and I ragequit.
After this experience I was left wondering so many things
- this was on the easiest settings, so it should be facerolling to get these quests successful otherwise why even offer them to begin with, but I failed hard. Maybe the game should take into account what settings you are on to determine how far away the quests are (tribals should have it easier since they can't tech up good equipment as fast)
- I don't have any understanding of whether the risk is worth the reward, for many reasons. 16 days = 32 round trip, so you're sending away a lot of colonists for about a season, so the home base is lightly defended and not many important things are being done there. I just don't get it, like it takes away from the focus of doing the things at your main base. I can't tell how much tech/weapons/armor I need to be able to survive something like 8 manhunting cats (god forbid if they had more advanced animals). I have no idea how caravans could be expected if I didn't have the luck of being able to tame some muffalos (many maps I've played on had no hauling animals). So the combination of the above makes it feel like caravans/quests are meant for extremely advanced players who have extreme luck in having the right resources, the right animals, the right amount of people not to lose at home while your caravan out, you have to know how well equipped you need to be to not die to something like 8 manhunting cats...I'm just confused.
I'm just so confused - are these caravan quests supposed to be an integral part of the game you should be considering often? Or just for the experts who understand every mathematical detail of the game so they can do it safely without sending too many people away? Or are they outright not supposed to be viable, but just there for hardcore players looking for a challenge?
Moderator's edit (Calahan) @ trihero - I merged the new A17 feedback thread you created with the existing thread on A17 feedback that Tynan (the developer) posted specifically for obtaining feedback on A17.
Hey guys! One bug I've seen is that when I am setting up a caravan with only prisoners as pack animals was that my colonist would start picking up and carrying far more than their allowed limit and just stand there and freeze. When I drafted him he'd move, and when I undrafted him he'd sometimes go and pick up more items, but other times he'd go to the item and get frozen again. The only consistency I saw was that he'd pick up single tile items like pants, but freeze on stacks, like smokeleaf.
The alpha has otherwise been pretty awesome though, thanks Tynan and company!
Thanks for the feedback everyone. It's very useful. We're still adjusting and fixing. Please keep it coming!
Edit: Please keep it to specific feedback here, open-ended suggestions go in the Suggestions forum. Thanks.
Quote from: MehniIt went from "My pawns don't have time to heal up between fights." to "I am bored. Let's go caravan or something."
I halfway wonder if that was intentional? Who's going to send a force out of their colony for days at a time when you're expecting to be attacked any day, or split your colony into a second site, which only doubles your exposure surface, divides your attention, and doesn't really increase your ability to deal with threats? Reducing the frequency of attacks almost seems like it'd be required to even make the caravan/attack mechanics viable.
Quote from: trihero on May 10, 2017, 12:21:10 PM- this was on the easiest settings, so it should be facerolling to get these quests successful otherwise why even offer them to begin with, but I failed hard. Maybe the game should take into account what settings you are on to determine how far away the quests are (tribals should have it easier since they can't tech up good equipment as fast)
Something you should probably keep in mind is that playing a tribal scenario is essentially playing on a higher difficulty level, at least in the beginning; It shouldn't be attempted unless you're fairly good with the basics, and want a more challenging scenario.
Other than that, I second your suggestions regarding cleaning areas. It's not especially fun having to micromanage your home zone to only include the spaces and structures you want cleaned/repaired/not-to-burn; Cleaning is the only really annoying part of the home-zone mechanics, so if it were broken out into it's own zone, that'd be a great QoL improvement. There's a mod or two that do this, but I'd much prefer if it were part of the Vanilla experience.
Very annoying thing with interface:
When I select pawn from work tab and then try to directly order him to do something - then pawn is unselected and tab closes. Should I report is as bug? Not sure.
Also I dont remember it be like that in A16.
New update! Please keep the feedback coming, it's super useful!
Changes:
Made caravan ambushes less dangerous. The tribal start scenario description now notes that it is difficult.
Caravan request requested items value wanted now adjust to player wealth. Caravan request no longer requests heavy, low-value items like stone blocks or chunks. Raid strength is now a few percent higher per player pawn.
Slightly re-increased threat frequency.
Caravan request changes: Destination max distance 50->36. Don't fire unless player has at least 4 pawns total and 15 days have passed.
Fix: 10jobs/10ticks errors when a pawn tries to haul item off blueprint surrounded by fire.
Fix: Right clicking on an occupied bed causes exceptions.
Fix: Pawns can binge on drugs which they can't even reach.
Resource readout is now scrollable.
"Version mismatch" warning now says what type of file this is.
Fix minor UI annoyance: Pawns deselect when you close main tabs with a right click.
Site's inspect string now says what the threat is if it's known.
Fix: Relation-adjusted messages appear in situations where they shouldn't.
Fix: Errors when a pawn is despawned while bursting.
Fix: Faction relations on world gen and at landing differ.
Fix: Roads occasionally build over rivers in unrealistic ways.
Fix 2978: Job targetQueues don't deserialize from saves correctly.
Fix 2977: New DateReadoutTip: Seasons are not translatable.
Fix 2969: Geyser can spawn in the middle of a road.
Fix: GameComponents don't properly update on mod changes.
Caravan ambushes are a bit weaker.
Clarify descriptions of stats that don't change speed with skill to explain why.
The build is live, it always takes a few minutes to upload.
This thread is for feedback on the build (not question-and-answer or open suggestions or bugs). Please keep it to feedback, thanks.
It's pretty awesome how quickly these updates are coming!
A little more feedback on caravans/quests....
The world map and caravan system are really awesome and I want my colonists to have a lot of good reasons to use it. The opportunity cost is high, since my colony development suffers, so rewards need to be significant.
One thing that might be awesome would be quests that gave the colonly more colonists. For example, 'so and so is imprisoned by raiders and will be sold/executed in X days, rescue them and they will join your group'. A new colonist is a significant asset, much more than something like a megascreen TV -- it is a force multiplier. I would be more likely to attempt such a quest, and not feel punished for doing so. Doubly so if the imprisoned colonist is a relative or lover of one of my existing colonists.
In fact, I would like it if this sort of thing became a primary way of recruiting colonists. Right now the whole 'imprison the raider until he agrees to join' thing still feels really creepy, and I rarely do it (and I never do it with space refugees). I'm glad it's an option for those that like that kind of game, but these people who join under duress ought to , every now and then, change their mind and attempt escape, maybe setting a bunch of stuff on fire on their way out. And their presence in the colony ought to trigger raids meant to 'liberate' them.
I had 5 or 6 ambrosia sprout events in my colony in 1 year. Is this working as intended?
Alpacas feels OP to me. They give lots of wool which is in the same time extra expensive. I was working hard to make prosperous colony, but was very surprised that 6 alpacas, which almost forgot about, has made almost all my money.
Also I wanted to grumble that my non-intellectual crafters try to make drugs (which is now intellectual work) and then saw that crafting bill can be limited by intellectual skill and not crafting. That is great little detail. But how can I limit my drug makers from carving stone and not cut off my low skill crafters from it in the same time?
Quote from: Tynan on May 10, 2017, 02:55:56 PMFix minor UI annoyance: Pawns deselect when you close main tabs with a right click.
Wow, not even 1 hour after I complained about it. O_O
Peaceful difficulty: you still get the Chased Refugee incident.
You could move the chem boy to a second colony where he can't get any drugs.
Big problem with route planing tool: it does not count takes winter moving time into consideration. It was very frustrating for me when my caravan with food for 3 days could not made it's travel expected in 2,7 days.
Also secondary problem is that winter moving speed is not bound to winter temperature. Why exactly caravans moves slower during winter in some tiles when it is +17° C there?
Plus I caught myself at not connotating "decembary" with seasons at all. It also added more confusion to this whole situation with caravan because my eyes sliped over that word and my brain gave me nothing about that it might be winter somewhere.
Edge scrolling only seems to work in the middle of the screen edges, and not in the corners. Is that intentional?
One minor annoyance about the hauling: If you ask them to haul a stack of let's say 75 wood, and there's a stack containing 60 wood already in the storage area, they will only pick up enough to fill that stack.
So rather than carrying the 75, and filling everything up, they will take only 15.
Quote from: theqmann on May 10, 2017, 06:09:24 PM
Edge scrolling only seems to work in the middle of the screen edges, and not in the corners. Is that intentional?
Yes, it is.
Thanks for the info everyone. Just a reminder.
This thread is for feedback on the build only. Bugs go in the Bugs forum. Open suggestions go in the Suggestions forum.
I'm not going to make the colonist more similar because it'll really weaken the stories and gameplay variance. Some people are supposed to be useless; it makes life interesting. (I wrote a very long explanation of this design principle on reddit as well). I do hope to make a more sophisticated game-start colonist generator interface, though.
I'm playing in a jungle at the moment and a cobra went mad and started attacking my colonist, and the cobra was making like, wolf or bear sounds.
Also the river water is looking great!
Quote from: Mihsan on May 10, 2017, 06:00:39 PM
Big problem with route planing tool: it does not count takes winter moving time into consideration. It was very frustrating for me when my caravan with food for 3 days could not made it's travel expected in 2,7 days.
Also secondary problem is that winter moving speed is not bound to winter temperature. Why exactly caravans moves slower during winter in some tiles when it is +17° C there?
Plus I caught myself at not connotating "decembary" with seasons at all. It also added more confusion to this whole situation with caravan because my eyes slipped over that word and my brain gave me nothing about that it might be winter somewhere.
I had a very similar issue, mine was I used the planning tool to figure out number of days, got 4.2. Then figured I would bring about 10 days worth of food, but then it took about 6 days to get there with no alert when I was at the destination / city I clicked on. Finally to top it off bought more food from the village for the return trip and the tool screwed me again, although I cannot remember by how much. I know I got 8 days worth of food and I somehow the return trip took about 10 days which is longer than before it seemed. I was guess because winter was getting closer. Not sure.
Finally, I never could figure out how to get my caravan to enter a minimap so maybe I could go hunting or mining because I had the only one settlement option on. Probably will change that to 5 or something so I can "settle" or mine if I want to.
I would love to start new games and give more feedback, but it would be nice to know where I can see all the most current changes from alpha 16 to alpha 17. I have seen several scattered posts in this thread from the dev himself but I cannot be troubled to click through each page looking for little bits of changes here and there and try to put them together chronologically to get a current picture of where the build stands. Plz help me give you guys feedback on this build changes by letting me see what the changes are to see if I like them or not.
Infection feels about right now.
River maps are a bit awkward to play on because the river always cuts through the middle and is pretty wide. If you use the standard (smaller) sizes this really shrinks the livable area, as there's a strong incentive to keep your base on only one side of the river. Consider offsetting the river a bit.
On a balance note - thank you for making fingers and toes less likely to be chopped off. For awhile there it was way too common.
Moderator's edit (Calahan) - Edited this to clean it up as I removed a post that part of this post was replying to. So it would look odd if I did one (removed a post) without doing the other (cleaning up related posts).
Uuh, was colonists that where put into cryptosleep caskets always affected by colony specific mood effects or did I for some reason not realize before now? I just took a couple out and they where all stacked with mood effects from every single organ harvest and slave selling I've done since they got put to sleep, lmao... Talk about waking up cranky! xD
I can understand the mood debuff of waking up to learn a family member died, but stuff that happened way back in the past that everyone else in the colony pretty much moved on from by then, that's a bit harsh. Either way, not meant as a suggestion, just not sure if it was always like this or I've really been that oblivious to it before...
I've removed several posts from this thread (re: suggestion and related discussion regarding changes to how starting Pawns are selected). Those posts can now be found here https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32319.0
As Tynan has asked several times now, please post any open-ended suggestions you might have in the suggestions forum. Also, please don't reply to such suggestions others are making and trying to enter a discussion about them because then you are just escalating the problem and helping to de-rail the thread. Same applies for posting bugs in the bugs forum (I'll be moving / deleting some of those out shortly as well. Edit - done).
Thank you all in advance for keeping this thread on-topic and respecting Tynan's requests.
I have another problem in A17:
While packaged survival meals are useful, it is really expensive. How can I prevent my pawns from eating it all up instead of the normal food? I want it reserved for my caravans...
I really appreciate your good work here. RimWorld is one of my favorite games for many years now.
Quote from: Skinnay on May 10, 2017, 11:00:06 PM
On a balance note - thank you for making fingers and toes less likely to be chopped off
Now they chop off your legs ;-) but yes, it's a good change when you need a decent manipulation.
Quote from: YokoZar on May 10, 2017, 08:00:17 PM
Infection feels about right now.
Yes, they are still rare enough, but to be taken very seriously, and can be deadly.
My last test: http://imgur.com/a/JmmdL
I guess people are arguing about the starting set of pawns because skills are more critical with this alpha.
I'm not sure wolves are behaving consistently in the new version:
1) They'll hunt my colonists long before they're starving, even when there's free meat on the ground nearby (drop pods, other dead animal that's still fresh)
2) If I turn my colonist onto fight back mode and do any damage at all (even with a fist) the wolf will begin to flee, only to immediately start hunting another colonist
3) If I draft the colonist and shoot the wolf instead of fleeing he'll go manhunter and rejoin the fight
That said the danger of the forest is a good amount of fun now! I sent my good weapons with my caravaner who is raiding a stash, and my remaining villagers can't stray too far because of the moderately hungry wolves.
I am always afraid to post here, since parts are suggestions, complains and some are bugs maybe.
@mods: Edit if needed.
Caravans:
- Requests during first 100 days are quite ridiculous. Requesting Items and amounts, you don't have or don't have access to them. Why don't they request some Rice or Wood instead of 5 assault rifles?
- Awesome Caravan packing spot. But why can't my other Haulers support the one guy loading 3k cloth ? He needs 3 days and gets moody since he and the muffalos does not sleep in effective spots while one is exhausted.
- Caravan packing in progress still can't be stopped/canceled.
- Visiting Caravans are stopping outside the "secure" Home-Area at the first Perimeter Wall.
Pawns:
- A "good" hospital bed and a skill 8 doctor with herb's keeps sofar every infection away. I like it the way now it is.
- The Health-Regeneration seems to be same as in a16. Healing of 18.5 points of Damage took about 17 in game hours.
- Doctor is turning away from patients while feeding them...
- Pawns does not matter if packaged or simple meal. What is closer, will be eaten. Even with separate rooms. A Simple meal should be preferred.
Combat:
- Shooting is now more accurate.
- Hunting is now safer for haulers which are sometimes in the line of sight. Matrix like dodges. Nice.
- Enemy Melee Pawns, which break up doors, don't dodge grenades from their team. He attacks door, she throws grenade on "his feet", he does not move. She throws the next one.
- Mechanoids with Lance "One shot" regulary a Pawn, who is beind a 70% grown tree. Does the Mechanoids have fixed or random skill values ?
Beauty:
- Flower field vs Flowerpot : Flowerpot wins.
- Cultivating Flowers on Fields has almost no value beside beauty. A Large statue of superior or excellent quality makes Flower beauty obsolete. Make flowers worth again with buffs !
- Cleaning by pawns is now faster. Love it.
Items:
- Medic Items visual redesign is ok.
- Stacks are still not beeing merged on stockpiles.
- Alpaca Wool drop is now 150; too much.
Resources:
- If i don't start to mine directly steel, i can wait for a skill 5-6 to get it mined. I can live with a little loss. Balance is ok.
- Raw Stone block looks different, but i got used to it. Harder to see the difference without clicking on it versus previous "block".
- Potatoes still have no reason to be grown. a 13x13 Field of Rice is more valuable than a 13x13 field of potatoes.
World:
- Streets are being used very often by my caravans. Good addition. Now i can place my colony more strategic, unless you plan to make enemy raids lurking around...
- Water and Sun reflection looks nice. Thunderstorms have now more chance to leave a spot burning. Rain stopped but lightning struck again. That's ok.
Mod Support:
- Since the a17 Unstable, i can't use any mod added manually to mods folder anymore. They don't show up in game. Clean Install has been done. Can't help moders to test their mods unless they are on steam :(
Economy:
- I was able to get to 10k silver within first 30 days previously in a16 (wood products). With same strategy i was able to reach 10k in about 50.
- Long term: Without own carawns or a working com station im stuck with the items i made.
- Requesting a Caravan costs sometimes more than they have in silver with them. Makes items more valueable. Good !
World:
- Quadrums, Seasons, names... All is fine as long the tooltip explains them
Scenario: Tribal
Storyteller: Phoebe Chillax
Difficulty: Rough
Played Region: Tropical
Edit:
removed some type-errors, you can keep the ones you find.
@Tynan: Awesome game, keep it going ! With 1,3k hours played it is 2nd place on my steam games. Don't know how many hours i've played pre steam.... This game is fun.
Quote from: fjw on May 11, 2017, 07:40:37 AM
I have another problem in A17:
While packaged survival meals are useful, it is really expensive. How can I prevent my pawns from eating it all up instead of the normal food? I want it reserved for my caravans...
Forbid them all until you're ready to roll out. Or, you can make sure your pawns always have a more preferable meal to eat (Fine or Lavish).
Thanks, but i know that. Problem is it takes a while to cook them. I don't want to forbid them every time the cook finishes a new one.
Just make fine meals too. Survival meal is considered on par with simple meal, so a fine meal should be preferred to them. Also, it might be a good idea to set up a storage area for the survival meals behind the other ones, as distance also plays into it. As long as there's a fine meal that's easier to get to, that's what they'll try to eat.
Thanks for the feedback, Pope et al. Very useful.
Still looking for more. Things are still being tuned.
Yeah, following the shooting skill changes as they stand, I was wondering where abouts scythers would fall in line... they were pretty accurate to begin with, but now they're almost dead-on. 99% is around 1.46x more accurate than 98% at 37 tiles - which is the charge lance's maximum range (68.945% vs 47.355%). Then again, mechanoids are more advanced than the charge rifle, so this is unsurprising really.
I'm gonna rebalance the scythers.
I'd say take them back to 98% post-processed - give them a noSkillFactor of 0.7. Or if you was to aim for 40% accuracy at 37 tiles (before factoring in weapons, and personally I liked 98%), then 97.55% post-processed - which would be a noSkillFactor of 0.61
It would make a big different if scythers had a lower range; there are only a couple weapons you can hit them with at their maximum range and leaving cover is suicide. And maybe it's just my imagination, but it's seemed like they like to stay at maximum range more than they did in A16.
On Scythers:
I like them being long range and fast, but fragile -- it makes them a great late game opponent but differentiated from centipedes.
If we're going to make pawns autoprefer cooked meals over packaged meals, there should be an exception for colonists with the Greedy trait :)
On raids.
I'm not sure if this is a bug and I will probably post it to the bug forum later if i can reproduce it consistantly along with my save, but 2 raid the 4 raiders split up. First 2 left to go attack my base through the "open" path through deadfalls, about 10 seconds apart. The second two stood there for another 30 seconds with the status "standing". While this was happening my game crawled to a halt, exactly until they began to retreat at which it resumed at full speed. I wonder if its because the path to get to my interior base is incredibly long (around like 3 mountain ranges) but it is open so they prefer it.
Quote from: wyoian on May 11, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
On raids.
I'm not sure if this is a bug and I will probably post it to the bug forum later if i can reproduce it consistantly along with my save, but 2 raid the 4 raiders split up. First 2 left to go attack my base through the "open" path through deadfalls, about 10 seconds apart. The second two stood there for another 30 seconds with the status "standing". While this was happening my game crawled to a halt, exactly until they began to retreat at which it resumed at full speed. I wonder if its because the path to get to my interior base is incredibly long (around like 3 mountain ranges) but it is open so they prefer it.
It sounds like a bad bug. Can you give any savegame where it happens? You could just post your map.
Please post it in the Bugs forum if you can!
New build is going up!
--------
Camera in gameplay map now clears to a solid color. This should fix: Leaving RimWorld in windowed mode and in the background causes visual trippiness
Changed Unity asset serialization mode to force-text.
Fix: Breakdown envelope references non-existent work type.
Fix typo in Star Squire backstory.
Adjusted tropical rainforest color to contrast better against rivers.
Potato grow days 6->5.8
Balanced wool to be a bit less crazily profitable (especially alpaca).
Added 0.40 noSkillFactor to ShootingAccruracy to make scythers less accurate. Also capped the influence of sight and reduced the influence of manipulation.
An attempt to fix a rare bug where only a half of a savefile is written to disk.
Fix: Pawns can sometimes slaughter sold animals.
Fix: Deconstructing flatscreen and megascreen televisions doesn't yield any resources.
Fix: Manhunters cause 10jobs/10ticks errors when there's only 1 standable cell.
Fix: All unfinished things have mass of 1kg.
Fix: Orbital trade beacon zone sometimes cuts off at region edges.
Fix: Filth generated during map gen doesn't have its growTick set properly.
Standardize Claimable semantics; clean up definition of "claimable" a little.
Fix: Error messages with crashed mechanoid ship part incidents.
Fix: Memory thoughts don't tick when the pawn is in a cryptosleep casket. Fix: MemoryThoughtHandler doesn't set 'pawn' links properly.
Fix: Raiders will try to destroy deconstruction-flagged ship chunks.
Fix: Pawns refuse to clean rubble for ten seconds after loading a game.
Fixed minor CaravanArrivalTimeEstimator bug. WorldRoutePlanner now overestimates the result slightly when no caravan is selected.
Fix: Animal getting tamed won't cancel map exit.
Phrasing improvement on a comment.
Fix: Deadman's apparel does not apply to reform caravan.
Amp up splash size effects quite a bit.
Quote from: Tynan on May 11, 2017, 04:02:03 PM
Added 0.40 noSkillFactor to ShootingAccruracy to make scythers less accurate.
96% accuracy for sophisticated mechanoids is certainly too low; they've gone from pretty reasonable (98%), to a tad on the tough side (99%), to now just pathetic accuracy-wise (96%!). I can't speak for the others, but I think 98% was pretty reasonable as an absolute figure (0.70 noSkillFactor) - or at least 97.5% (0.60). They've gone from something that truly reflects their level of sophistication (according to the fiction primer), to just as accurate as a makeshift turret with basically a couple of potatoes wired together for an 'AI chip'.
I don't know if that's intended, the hunger bar on chicks decreases very quickly when they are malnourished (~5% loss every update when the bar is high to 1-2% when it is low). Their hunger goes from full to starvation in only 2-3 hours in-game and they can't really get out of it between their need for sleep and their slow wandering.
Thanks, I'll look at these issues.
Scythers will get a bit better I think.
You also wanted stories, so here goes:
My colonists felt safe and secure in their modest homestead so they decided to embark on a caravan trip. Equipped with decent weaponry, they set out with ambitious plans: to obtain the contents of a weapons cache, grab some uranium and maybe destroy a raider outpost or two along the way.
The first step along the way was a raider outpost. The local tribe had promised us a decent sum of silver for the seemingly easy task of murdering a handful of raiders. When we arrived, we set up behind a handy wall and started taking potshots. It wasn't long before the raiders noticed our presence and started to return fire. Everything was going well: we had superior cover, superior weapons and then our doctor got her head blown clean off by a lucky sniper. Oops. Despite rumours to the contrary, our doctor was unable to function without it.
With morale amongst the troops slightly lowered, we still managed to destroy the outpost. One of the raiders was captured, he looked like a good replacement doctor. In the meantime, we must try to tend to our own wounds. A search was ordered for the missing head, but none was recovered. A shame really, it was a lovely looking head.
After two or three days, we start getting restless and decide the move on. Our minor injuries have healed without notable issue, so we can carry on with the mission. Next stop, a cache containing valuable uranium and gold. We get there - there's a single guy and half a dozen turrets. The lonely pirate guarding the fort decides to attack us (we suspect he was just a drifter - he was half naked and all he had was an improvised shiv). He makes it ten steps towards us before he's dead and somehow the turrets turn off. It's an anti-climactic battle, all in all.
Running low on food, we decide to hang around as long as we can. Keuneke is slow because he lost a leg to an earlier incident and he could use some rest. After about 2 days though, something spurs us to move on.
And that's when we get ambushed. There's 3 of them and 6 of us - so it's no real problem. We outgun, outrange and outnumber them two to one. The sound of a survival rifle fills the air and the first raider drops. Our careful sniper seems to take forever calculating their shot to compensate for wind and the angle of the sun - but their shot rings true. The minigunner simply doesn't care and starts shooting at random. The assault rifles and brawler are kept in the wings - all they need to do is watch on.
Again, we rest.
Before we get a chance to properly recover and reform the caravan - a second ambush! A conservative estimate puts it at two dozen enemies - but later regaling of the story will put the number at 30 and future tales around the campfire will surely buff the number up to 60. But there they are.
Chickens.
They tear through limbs, their sharp teeth beaks pecking at our legs and tendons. The few prisoners we have go down first - we're thankful to have such well-behaved prisoners that act as a distraction. It's not long before they turn on us though! Their tiny nimble bodies are seemingly immune to bullets. The brawler tries to flee but goes down. The heinous chickens turn their beady eyes on Keuneke. His comical hopping/hobbling on his single leg send our fighters into a giggling fit of friendly fire: there's more maiming than actual aiming.
By now the team is reeling. They somehow manage to defeat the onslaught, but morale is low. Food is non-existent. The caravan is quickly reformed, but things are looking pretty dire. Our only hope is a resupply with medicine and a proper doctor from basecamp, but the list of infections is long and time is short.
TL;DR: I got rekt by chickens.
Have the heat waves been tweaked? I'm getting 140f/60c and that's absurdly high because i'm in a temperate forest that's really north highest temp is 84f/29c.
Edit: The Caravan menu isn't showing how many days worth of food gonna post this in bugs
Also, caravans are occasionally ignoring some supplies when forming. I've noticed it while making caravans first thing after landing (it's the easiest way for me to move lots of stuff to a different side of the map). It seems that if a colonist stops to puke while gathering supplies for the caravan, he'll completely ignore the stack he was heading to. I've just noticed it during my initial caravans because half my colonists have Cryosleep Sickness during it.
I escaped the space ship twice from A17.
cassandra Extreme. permadeath mode.
Once without any restrictions. Once in a scenario without traps and turrets, set it to raid every four days.
A17 Let me evaluate the added content.
It is interesting that you have to play quite differently from the existing play. I have to stop the battle and solve the puzzle, and such trouble is a pleasure. When one puzzle is released, another type of enemy comes and a new puzzle begins. Alpha 17 ended the defensive battle, and now they have puzzles to build the raid.
Ai Change is very interesting. In the past, it was too easy to attack the nearest target and understand only the defense method.
Infection continues to change, so omit.
Increasing the cost of merchants and reducing their holdings seems to be a way to induce a quest. However, some of the quest rewards are too bad and can not be rejected. It is not fascinating to go through a long journey and battle to get a table. How about letting it be 'silver or item' or rejecting it?
The arid shrubland got better again. It is also easy to trade and easy to quest. On the contrary, boreal forest and Tundra was again bad again. I feel as though I am forced to play in a arid shrubland rather than playing in various areas. Personality disappears and only weakness remains.
The smoke belt needs a function to inhibit the activation and a function to force it. It is also a problem to pop out from unnecessary places and not to pop out from where it is needed.
The Long Range mineral scanner is the worst. You need to study separately and you need 500W electricity to find it. It will be once every 30 days, not a lot of discovery. In order to catch the resources that are found, we have to organize the personnel separately and make packanimal to transport it. And I have to travel that person over a few days, and it can be dangerous there. The resources that can be obtained are just useless minerals worth about 2000 silver. It is not a unique resource that can be found there.
The shield belt is likely to be usable as the melee combat strengthens. but There is no fundamental reason to make it. The enemy will come up with a sufficient number of belts. Why should I create a production system instead of purchasing it or taking it away?
Finally, I would like to add the option to turn off forced event speed. It is too slow for simple battles.
Thanks for the feedback! Play stories are really useful. Keep it coming!
I'm uploading a new build, the second for today.
-----------------
Increased combat points cost of some weak animal enemies, especially chickens.
Long-range mineral scanner is cheaper.
Wrote a new analyzer for species food maxima and hunger rates. Adjusted a few values.
Fix: Water texture occasionally inverted.
Readjusted how max food levels are calculated for young animals with tiny BodySize, by adding a factor-up at young levels. Adjusted when animals will try to eat; herbivores will wait until 45% food to eat instead of eating at 65%, to waste less food when maxing out.
Added descriptions for SiteCores. They don't appear in-game though.
ShootingAccuracy noSkillFactor 0.4 -> 0.5
Camera in gameplay map now clears to a solid color. This should fix: Leaving RimWorld in windowed mode and in the background causes visual trippiness
Changed Unity asset serialization mode to force-text.
Tynan,
When you annonuce a new build upload, would you mind listing what the build number is? I just started up a game, and while it was starting I looked on the forums and saw that you have uploaded a new version. I know I have 0.17.1535, but I'm not sure what version you just uploaded, so I'm not sure if Steam has given me the new version or not. Thanks!
Good though; I'll try. But often I don't remember the version... the versions increment each day automatically. Today it's 0.17.1535, tomorrow will be 1536, etc.
Infections might be too powerful for elderly pawns now. Had an infection on my 80-yr old pawn on Day 3 of crashlanding, started at +5% and ended at +18%, despite confining her to bedrest and having a Medicine 4 doctor tend her with standard medicine. Not sure what I would've needed to save her.
There's a hidden penalty to recovery based on age, right? Could there be a way to make that visible, like a modifier to blood filtration due to age?
Old pawns are susceptible to disease, by design.
Quote from: MikeLemmer on May 11, 2017, 08:32:54 PM
Infections might be too powerful for elderly pawns now. Had an infection on my 80-yr old pawn on Day 3 of crashlanding, started at +5% and ended at +18%, despite confining her to bedrest and having a Medicine 4 doctor tend her with standard medicine. Not sure what I would've needed to save her.
There's a hidden penalty to recovery based on age, right? Could there be a way to make that visible, like a modifier to blood filtration due to age?
You can see the multiplier for age under Stats, in Immunity Gain Speed
won't capped "sight" bonus to shooting make bionic eyes fairly useless?
All bionics are useful for replacing lost body parts, but legs and arms have really nice movement and manipulation bonuses that affect loads of skills, making them a worthwhile investment whenever you can afford them.
With sight being capped at 100% for surgery and now being capped for shooting, is there any significant reason to try to "augment" yourself with bionic eyes, EXCEPT for replacing an injured eye?
Quote from: Tynan on May 11, 2017, 02:29:56 PM
Quote from: wyoian on May 11, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
On raids.
I'm not sure if this is a bug and I will probably post it to the bug forum later if i can reproduce it consistantly along with my save, but 2 raid the 4 raiders split up. First 2 left to go attack my base through the "open" path through deadfalls, about 10 seconds apart. The second two stood there for another 30 seconds with the status "standing". While this was happening my game crawled to a halt, exactly until they began to retreat at which it resumed at full speed. I wonder if its because the path to get to my interior base is incredibly long (around like 3 mountain ranges) but it is open so they prefer it.
It sounds like a bad bug. Can you give any savegame where it happens? You could just post your map.
Please post it in the Bugs forum if you can!
Just spawned Smart raiders, just 2 (spawned 2 regular and it didnt happen) and it appeared to happen again. One is standing at spawn waiting and its a bit laggier than it should be for this early. When i do more testing i will post to bug forum with more info.
Heres the save
http://puu.sh/vNfif/4de950c3c0.rws (http://puu.sh/vNfif/4de950c3c0.rws)
posted to bug forum
Phoebe - Base Builder - Base Crash Colony setting
Ok this time I waited quite a while until 100 days in, I had 6 colonists equipped with normal+ assault rifles and I decided to go hit up a pirate base 8 days away. I got completely shrekt by 15-20 pirates who had a variety of aoe attacks and all had decent medium range weapons.
- I sent literally all my colonists on this caravan, because I decided I needed every bit of firepower available. I noted in particular that the game becomes extremely dull when you're waiting for your caravan to arrive at the destination, it's like watching paint dry. I don't like this aspect of the game; I understand ambushes break the monotony but it was still overall very very boring waiting.
-Yes I had a couple ambushes which I managed to survive this time so I feel the balance is better; one was 4 raiders with crappy melee tech, and another was 2 megaspiders which were new to me and I almost lost one of my guys because I didn't realize how many bullet they could soak and there was a lot of friendly fire as well. I felt it was awkward to have to build beds and hang around to heal the men. It was also confusing that one of my colonists was starving but I couldn't figure out how to feed her with my caravan supplies while inside the scenario. I just reformed the caravan a day later (I decided to give my injured guy the most time to heal) and then the food issue resolved itself, but this whole feeding/healing thing is very confusing in a caravan
- do pawns heal while the caravan is traveling? I have no idea. Do they use medicine while traveling? I have no idea. I carried 100+ herbal meds on this trip.
- I have no idea how to assault a pirate base with 15-20 men and they have a mortar turret. I think the game does a "bad" job of introducing you to combat like this where you are the attacker and don't have the luxury of entrenched defeses. I have no idea how to learn from my mistakes and mind you, I already prepared 100 days for this. It's hard to learn these kinds of scenarios when they occur relatively late into the game and is so different than base building or defending your own base. Save scumming feels bad and also it's hard to pinpoint what the issue is, the preparation phase of the first 100 days or the actual execution of the attack.
- even if I had won - would it have been worth the effort? I mean what kind of phat lewt do these pirate bases even have that's worth giving up a season's worth of 6 colonists building up your wealth?
Overall I think caravans should be lower risk and lower cost. It seems to me the idea of caravans is really cool and they are relatively well executed in terms of functionality with the whole packing stuff, but it's absolutely crazy to think about sending caravans off unless you have 10 colonists (on top of whatever you need to maintain your base during non-phoebe play) with excellent tech/armor and intricate knowledge of the game's combat systems, and even then I don't even know that the reward is worth it.
I think a big step in the right direction would be to try to incorporate the caravan system into the earlier game as lower risk/cost by
-guaranteeing muffalos on the starting map so you have some chance of having a good hauling animals
-having early quests be no more than 5 days away , this is already almost a full season's worth of sending off your colonists when you consider the round trip
- just in general making quests and base raids really be worth it rather than it feels like to me you have to be either a complete expert/genius or build up for years and years and have an embarrassing excess of riches to go out and explore/kill stuff.
Infections are extremely deadly still even with medicine and bed i might be a little salty because this happened
(http://i.imgur.com/y4Q1Nwi.png)
But, infections basically incapacitate you pawns if you don't insantly restrict them to a bed and give them medicine they will die and i'm fine with that but its soo aggravating could we possible have a new drug specifically for infections "Antibiotics". Other than that it seems really easy to get food it doesn't really seem to be as much as a problem at all. One final thing for now is that the transition between shallow water and marsh is really ugly and the scroll bar on the caravan gear menu is overlapping the exit "x"
(http://i.imgur.com/5vi7NbY.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/PFnL3eW.png)
Neotic, I had a very similar situation, prior to my caravan to the pirates I had 4 colonists catch malaria simultaneously and luckily 3 of them were developing enough immunity to overcome it, but my fourth one was at 95% immunity when he reached 100% symptoms and died, no matter how hard I tried to give him great care. =________=
I also had a recent game where in a cassandra/some challenge game I was doing all right fending off raiders then 3 of my dudes catch malaria and things fall apart quickly when you don't have enough men to fight raids.
I like the challenge of malaria, but maybe limit it to 2 colonists max catching it at a time? It's just so debilitating and depressing to catch that. It's kinda funny I was literally considering quitting this game for about a month because of a really depressing loss to malaria no matter how hard I was trying to cure it.
Maybe the commonality of modern medicine on the planet is just too high?
And maybe that's why infections are hard to balance.
I always thought that infections were only ever deadly in impoverished places, due to the lack of medicine.
Infections should be easily overcome with modern medicine.
Maybe consider making medicine more valuable, or just less abundant in every way? Or both?
Standard infections should only be somewhat scary in the super-early game.
Maybe even explore the option of having severity follow a sort of exponential curve, rather than a linear one? Nothing too steep, but a bit of curve couldn't hurt, right? It would make early treatment more powerful, and neglected infections more difficult to deal with. Rewarding the player for taking care of their pawns promptly, and punishing those that wait or are flat-out unprepared. I think that's fair.
To me infections feel right on point now considering the scenarios when you're more susceptible to feel them are when your colony is already struggling in other respects (i don't have defenses yet, my pawns are old and get infected easily, my protective gear is nonexistant) and the new, lower rate helps avoid the infection snowball i experienced many times in early a17.
On the matter of infections being a death spell for old timers maybe give us some antibiotics in the way of very rare and expensive items we can buy from merchants ? Helps as a money sink and prevents your super useful grandpa dying from that festering bunny rabbit scratch.
Quests are a non-factor early game since you can't really do them without commiting colony sudoku but it's not a huge issue otherwise.
Those starship trooper insects seem to no longer be tied to a small area around the nests and now they all aggro when you hit one it seems.
Please implement more anti-cheese measures like these i'm loving it.
Rivers are kind of an issue as there is with no way to cross them.
Quote from: Limdood on May 11, 2017, 09:03:55 PM
With sight being capped at 100% for surgery and now being capped for shooting, is there any significant reason to try to "augment" yourself with bionic eyes, EXCEPT for replacing an injured eye?
When I checked the XMLs, sight is capped at 200% - so you've still got a fair bit of overhead after installing the bionic eyes which add 20% sight each (40% total), luciferium adds 15%, go-juice is another 25%, and sensory mechanites add another 50% (pushing the pawn over the 200% threshold) - and those'll actually be nothing but useful if your pawn has a painstopper to stop the consciousness penalty from pain. Anything greater than the cap is effectively just extra overhead so should your pawn take a knock, it won't actually harm their accuracy.
Bionic arms are somewhat less useful for the purpose of shooting as manipulation's usefulness is capped at 100% - but if you was to get shot in the arm without any bionic arm, your accuracy takes an immediate hit - whereas being shot in the
shoulder with a bionic arm will probably most likely still keep your manipulation above 100%, and therefore not affect accuracy. Shoulders are hard to hit anyway.
This time a Shaman merchant was created. They sell expensive artifacts. The tribal traders and the villages are not as good as the outlander in a balanced way. If starting is a 3 tribal faction, it will be a bad start. Why do not tribe sell a lot of animals, animal products, slave, and artifacts for a better balance? Will they survive on the planet longer and have more opportunities to find artifacts? And most of all, I want the tribe to sell something unique. It's like an outlander. It's like an outlander's bionic item or a neuro-teaching device. Would not it be fun to sell tribal unique seeds like the seed please mod? The fertilizer that improves the soil quality of the land is also good.
Trivial quests How about hunting a monster boss with a unique shape in its own quest? It will look like a boss if you only grow the size of an existing animal.
I would like to add another tribal raid pattern even if it is not Alpha 17. Among the various patterns such as siege, sappaer, melee, and basic, tribe is only one. What about attacking with animals and stunning some pawn with weakened artifacts? The poison (infectious) weapon also seems to be interesting. A terrible tattoo may frighten the pawn.
A17 has enriched world map events, and I hope it will be fun even if there are many tribe faction
Some quick observations based on a few hours of a17 of today's build, coming from someone who played a16 extensively (on Randy Extreme) but haven't played for a few months.
-Infections are incredibly dangerous. Even glitterworld medicine applied every cooldown by a Medicine 4 doc, while patient is 24/7 in a normal quality bed, is a harrowing race against time once infection starts.
-Randy Random Extreme seems harder than a16, but might just be a coincidence. Was getting hit by debilitating effects almost daily.
In relation to Randy, I was playing one colony in a zone with predicted temperature between -5 and +25 Celcius. I landed during summer, right before fall. Within 1-2 weeks of landing, I had both a heatwave and a cold snap, pushing temperatures from +45 to -15 Celsius. Several raids as well as a mechanoid ship landing in the middle of my base, followed by malaria, and then a surprisingly big raid of 8-10 well armed people (this is still within about 2-3 weeks of landing), and I ended up not being able to keep up with the wound treatment, and had infections as a result, which combined with malaria just annihilated my colony. Keep in mind that this is coming from an experienced Randy Extreme player.
-Melee combat feels broken, with everyone just swinging wildly into the air and hitting nothing. Feels much more RNG than before.
Related to the melee combat feeling broken: Had 2 fresh colonists get wrecked by a single rabbit, because they couldn't hit it (4 and 0 melee). Tried shooting it, but that accuracy was even worse, even at point blank range (due to being attacked meanwhile). Meanwhile the rabbit managed to cause severe wounds to the colonists, including a permanent eye scar (how does that even happen). This, in combination with the increased infection risk, feels incredible frustrating. To have 2 healthy colonists get wrecked by a rabbit within a few days of landing. Screenshot for dramatic effect http://pasteboard.co/5jGutAkDQ.jpg http://pasteboard.co/5kbVFACIH.jpg
So one single rabbit almost kills 2 colonists within 3 days on landing, due to infections, despite the colonists being armed with a steel knife and a gun.
-Performance does not really feel improved (not sure if it was supposed to be), when playing on ludicrous size (yes, I know there's a disclaimer saying it's not tested at that size). Fast-forwarding on ludicrous size makes the FPS hit single-digits, even with only 2 colonists and a very small base. I was hoping this version would improve this performance. My system specs for reference: 2600k, 8gb ram, Gtx970, Win10, game on SSD.
-Savegame size is still very big. One fresh save at ludicrous size, right after landing, takes 37MB.
I see a lot of people complaining about infections here. If you have a doctor that's awful (skill 5 or less), you're going to have a bad time.
It's really not that bad. I have had people treated by doctors with 5-6 skill, in a kinda rubbish hospital with wooden floors and regular beds, and with herbal medicine, that survived the ordeal easily.
Firstly: What you need to do is keep an eye on the patients. They will require more than one treatment for the infection, and if you don't hurry that up, then sure - they will die. If you keep an eye on them ("next treatment in X.XX hours"), and your doctor is even slightly competent, you shouldn't have any problems at all, unless you're horribly unlucky with the treatment quality.
The second thing you can do is to prevent the infections in the first place. Setting up a small hospital with sterile floors isn't THAT expensive, and it will save you a lot of grief. Once you have that, make sure to keep the damn place clean. I've seen screenshots of hospitals that were covered in dirt and blood, and the owner had the balls to complain about the infection rate being too high. If you're doing surgery in a pool of shit, of course it's going to get infected.
TL;DR: The infection rate at the moment is if anything, lower than it needs to be. Just make sure to treat your colonists in time, and clean your damn hospitals.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 12, 2017, 06:23:14 AM
TL;DR: The infection rate at the moment is if anything, lower than it needs to be. Just make sure to treat your colonists in time, and clean your damn hospitals.
I don't have any significant problems with infections when I reach a late-stage game. The problem is the inverse difficulty curve, where even a scratch can doom your colonists in early game, due to having limited medicine and poor accommodations. It's still
possible, sure, if you micro-manage every single treatment right on time.
In terms of gameplay, I just don't find it appealing. It feels like the gameplay shifts 100% to wound treatment micro-management, once someone gets injured. It becomes a micro-management nightmare when several colonists become injured, which is sure to happen with the new improved AI, that likes to change targets and injure as many colonists as possible. I'm afraid that many players, especially new players, will find it extremely frustrating and off-putting.
I think infections SHOULD be a problem, unlike in A16, but the current implementation feels like a heavy dose of artificial difficulty, for difficulties sake.
I've been playing the rich explorer scenario since it's now routinely playable with self tending. With infections back and the rebalance of medicine potency, i'm wondering if the 40 glitt meds doesn't make it easier than the crashlanded scenario with 30 standard meds. I get you're slightly disavantaged buy the .7 penalty at self-tending, but it can be easily offset by the doctoring skill and/or first guys joining.
The guy is already rich, he could start with a few glitt meds, more standard meds and then buy some more if needed according to opportunities.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on May 12, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: Limdood on May 11, 2017, 09:03:55 PM
With sight being capped at 100% for surgery and now being capped for shooting, is there any significant reason to try to "augment" yourself with bionic eyes, EXCEPT for replacing an injured eye?
When I checked the XMLs, sight is capped at 200%
Thank you. I had not checked. That implies that Tynan merely added the cap as a "just in case you have freaky mods that screw with this value" precaution.
With respect to infections, I would just like to point out that they are incredibly dangerous in real life. My father almost died, in a hospital, from four separate drug resistant infections that he acquired during surgery for a heart bypass. I'm pretty sure he was treated by a skilled doctor and that herbal medicine was not used :)
I travel a lot in remote/rural parts of Asia and South America. I always carry a spare tube of topical antibiotics with me to hand out, because more than once I've seen kids with untreated infections in places with no access to medical care. Those infections, often just from minor scrapes, can become fatal.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 12, 2017, 06:23:14 AM
I see a lot of people complaining about infections here. If you have a doctor that's awful (skill 5 or less), you're going to have a bad time.
TL;DR: The infection rate at the moment is if anything, lower than it needs to be. Just make sure to treat your colonists in time, and clean your damn hospitals.
i have to disagree with you.
To be able to deal with infections as they currently are you need a very good doctor, very good medicine and cleaners.
let's say you start with the normal 3 ppl scenario. and you randomize your colonist to at least get 1 good doctor and all to do dumb labor
if you get raided what are the chances that two colonists don't get hurt so that they cure the 3rd person of infection? because you need the doctor and someone to constantly clean the blood of the person that is injured. if that one person that cleans is injured as well then he is spilling blood on the floor constantly and again your doctor is busy curing the first one meanwhile your other colonist is risking infection as we speak.
you start at the beginning, you don't have much silver to build a sterile room. hence the chance is pretty much 50 percent to get infection no matter how good your doctor is if your room is spotless.
and lets say you micro manage everything and all, you built as soon as possible a sterile room. to treat one person of infection you need at least 3 normal medicine i think depending on his immunity gain. you only start with 30 medicine, if you have 3 colonist you can afford only 10 infections if you are lucky. and chances to get more medicine depends on traders and you are also pretty much out of silver cuz you built that sterile room.
the only way to get a colony going imo is to tweak the scenario and get glitterworld medicine from beginning until you make things running.
And plus every time you are raided you need to keep your ppl constantly on the bed to recover from infection. that pretty much makes the game an agony because by the time the pawns are cured another raid is coming hence again infections again in bed. and so on ... it just becomes a game of curing diseases and not building a colony.
and to come to what i actually wanted to talk about:
Just had a prisoner die to infection that was at 87% and 90% immunity. and the game clearly said the prisoner died of infection.
why did the prisoner die before it reached 100% infection?
picture in attachment.
Quote from: kenmtraveller on May 12, 2017, 11:22:55 AM
With respect to infections, I would just like to point out that they are incredibly dangerous in real life. My father almost died, in a hospital, from four separate drug resistant infections that he acquired during surgery for a heart bypass. I'm pretty sure he was treated by a skilled doctor and that herbal medicine was not used :)
I travel a lot in remote/rural parts of Asia and South America. I always carry a spare tube of topical antibiotics with me to hand out, because more than once I've seen kids with untreated infections in places with no access to medical care. Those infections, often just from minor scrapes, can become fatal.
Your father had a really complicated surgery done to the heart. which chances to get infected are high especially since you put a foreign object inside the body. The tissue doesn't heal well around the device and so on. The infections the children had were because they weren't treated on time and left to be.
And here we are not talking about real life. If this was real life game i wouldn't want to play it to be honest. i have enough of my real life i don't need to play it in a game as well.
Plus even if we are to compare real life to his game. The infections we speak of in this game is that they come even if you cure the pawn immediately as he got hurt. In real life to get infection you need to not treat the wound for more than a day and also be in a very dirty environment. In rimworld A17 you get the pawn into a sterile room it becomes dirty because the pawns blood is getting on the floor making it a 75% chance to get infected no matter if you cure him or not. with good medicine or not.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Quote from: Angiel on May 12, 2017, 11:32:35 AM
and to come to what i actually wanted to talk about:
Just had a prisoner die to infection that was at 87% and 90% immunity. and the game clearly said the prisoner died of infection.
why did the prisoner die before it reached 100% infection?
I think a prisoner dies if he reaches 0% consciousness, and extreme infection limits it to max 10%. So it doesn't take a lot to reduce the remaining 10% consciousness to 0%. As far as I know, consciousness is reduced by blood loss, starvation, pain as well as hypothermia or heatstroke.
Another annoying things about caravans is if you send them on a long enough journey (even 8 days one way trip) they will arrive at the destination at 0% joy.
Okay, I'm going to address the health balance. Thank you everyone for the info.
(removed incorrect quote, was trying to respond to the 0% joy after caravan journey thing)
Yeah, this is an issue, along with people breaking during caravan loading. It feel too me like there ought to be a virtual 'camping' activity during the caravan journey (not with a real map, just abstracted) where joy requirements can be met. There could be a lot of factors that affect joy regain during that time, like whether a fire is used, whether anyone brought a harmonica, the personalities of the travellers, and whether bedrolls/tents are brought.
Not sure if I saw something in patch notes about caravans getting upset if they get injured in your map, think i did, but if that is the case, can we add a trading spot to the game.
Before this was subject to abuse for obvious reasons, but now if we freeze/burn them it would anger them? Also now if they get caught up in the line of fire which often happens with how they positon (literally inside my deadfall traps half the time), it will also anger them. We can't tell them to leave when they are in danger, and we can't control the spot.
Also if I mis remembered reading something about them angering then this is all hypothetical. Tried searching in this thread but didn't see it mentioned.
It is correct that if they are killed, you will lose reputation with them. As for cold, they will leave the map if the temperature is out of their comfortable range.
Quote from: ttgg on May 12, 2017, 11:39:30 AM
I think a prisoner dies if he reaches 0% consciousness, and extreme infection limits it to max 10%. So it doesn't take a lot to reduce the remaining 10% consciousness to 0%. As far as I know, consciousness is reduced by blood loss, starvation, pain as well as hypothermia or heatstroke.
Then shouldn't be announced pawn died due too much pain instead of infection?
I don't really know the mathematics around the percentage of these. But i am just trying to understand it logically.
my prisoner wasn't starving wasn't having hypothermia or heatstroke and blood loss was taken care of cuz he was bandaged. So that leaves only pain.
How is any pawn supposed to survive to extreme infection if the pain from extreme infection plus injuries reduces the 10% to 0%?
The pawn is bound to have injuries when he gets infected.
Sorry if i seem to be dragging this too much. the post can be deleted if it is considered an inconvenience to the subject of the topic
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 12, 2017, 02:06:19 PM
It is correct that if they are killed, you will lose reputation with them. As for cold, they will leave the map if the temperature is out of their comfortable range.
I more meant people locking them in a freezer/sauna for the porpose of killing them for their inventory, as having a trading spot would allow you to make them walk up to an insect hive or go into a small area where you have it set up to kill them "neutrally" in the past.
edit. This is why since they get upset now we could have a trading spot without it being free loot. Also it prevents them from being in crossfire
Quote from: Tynan on May 12, 2017, 01:23:47 PM
Okay, I'm going to address the health balance. Thank you everyone for the info.
Don't go overboard on rebalancing. It's pretty good as it is imo. Those who don't know how to manage a hospital just need to play on "base builder" difficulty or stop their whining.
Quote from: Skinnay on May 12, 2017, 02:17:56 PM
Quote from: Tynan on May 12, 2017, 01:23:47 PM
Okay, I'm going to address the health balance. Thank you everyone for the info.
Don't go overboard on rebalancing. It's pretty good as it is imo. Those who don't know how to manage a hospital just need to play on "base builder" difficulty or stop their whining.
Or you could notice that about 80% of the posts say "too hard/severe" and 20% say "its fine" and NONE say "too easy"
and realize that games tend to need to strike a balance. A 50/40/10 split would probably fit the genre and intent of the game, where fantastic micromanagers that place medicine stockpiles next to beds, draft doctors to be waiting to treat the instant a disease is about to need treatment, and surgically implants and removes peg legs ad nauseum on the first prisoner will find the diseases "too easy." Experienced players will find the diseases just right, and casual/newer players will find them a significant challenge.
Quote from: Limdood on May 12, 2017, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Skinnay on May 12, 2017, 02:17:56 PM
Quote from: Tynan on May 12, 2017, 01:23:47 PM
Okay, I'm going to address the health balance. Thank you everyone for the info.
Don't go overboard on rebalancing. It's pretty good as it is imo. Those who don't know how to manage a hospital just need to play on "base builder" difficulty or stop their whining.
Or you could notice that about 80% of the posts say "too hard/severe" and 20% say "its fine" and NONE say "too easy"
and realize that games tend to need to strike a balance. A 50/40/10 split would probably fit the genre and intent of the game, where fantastic micromanagers that place medicine stockpiles next to beds, draft doctors to be waiting to treat the instant a disease is about to need treatment, and surgically implants and removes peg legs ad nauseum on the first prisoner will find the diseases "too easy." Experienced players will find the diseases just right, and casual/newer players will find them a significant challenge.
Those are all absolutely things you should be doing. I see people posting how they only run on extreme difficulty then complain about infections. Infection rates scale with difficulty level. If you're playing on anything above rough, it makes sense that you should have to utilize every tactic and game mechanic to avoid death, and death is probably going to happen one way or another anyway.
I just had a trade caravan in my base while a pack of manhunting wargs (of course) appeared on the map. Together with the tribals I managed to defeat them without any casualty until my sniper friendly fire-one-shot-killed (of course) one of the tribals, which caused the whole caravan getting bad will and attacking me (of course), which was instant game over. While the warg attack at first was fun and thrilling, the outcome was very frustrating and not adding anything positive at all to the game. So would it be possible to make friendlies a bit less irascible to friendly fire while a fight with enemies is going on?
Edit: Note that there already is a bad will penalty for caravan casualties after the caravan leaves implemented, at least for A16.
I just lost a prisoner to infection at 30%. :/
I've been playing this game since last summer (was that A14 or A15?). So not a newb. I don't play on harder than rough, though. My current game was Randy Challenge. And I micromanage a lot and play on normal speed often.
Personally I would just like to see the chance of infection dropped a bit. That guy with the three rabbit scratches shouldn't get an infection if treated promptly, but the guy with burns to 60% of his body? Absolutely! It seems like everyone gets infected no matter what you do. In real life, if you use a medikit with antiseptic swabs and clean bandages--no matter how dirty or uncomfortable the environment--it should still prevent infection for most injuries (cuts, stabs, bites, scratches). Gunshots and burns I can see being at higher risk.
Anyway, please rebalance! Micromanaging infections every day is not much fun to play. Especially with the other changes that increased difficulty.
Thanks!
* The caravan requests after the patch now seem just fine in terms of request/reward ratio in general. Perhaps travel time should be taken into account? I'd travel 2x2 days for some rewards, but certainly not 2x8days.
* Rivers and roads are pretty cool addition, but could use some adjustments (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32233.0)
* Caravan joy probably shouldn't be at 0%. Could just assume they got some enjoyment from seeing some more of the world then just that base
* Not sure if this is intentional, but I've noticed you need to build walls next to doors now or it can cause annoying bugs. If you have a large room with small bed rooms (2x1) and don't extend the walls to the door and you mark some of the beds prisoner it causes the entire area with other bed rooms to become prisoner after a while.
* Human leather should probably be worth a little more again, since the mood penalty you take for acquiring it is pretty serious.
* Dislike the season/month names, but there is a topic with good discussion on this
* I like the smarter raiders
Quote from: ttgg on May 12, 2017, 06:33:15 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 12, 2017, 06:23:14 AM
TL;DR: The infection rate at the moment is if anything, lower than it needs to be. Just make sure to treat your colonists in time, and clean your damn hospitals.
I don't have any significant problems with infections when I reach a late-stage game. The problem is the inverse difficulty curve, where even a scratch can doom your colonists in early game, due to having limited medicine and poor accommodations. It's still possible, sure, if you micro-manage every single treatment right on time.
I'm with ttgg on this, infection right now are more undertuned then anything else (and i'm on cassandra extreme). Before it was patched it was overturned, but now it seems to weak, in particular with those conditions you mentioned. I was able to avoid infections just fine without having a proper hospital, and the infections that I did get went almost too well given I was just on herbal medicine. And besides cleaning the blood/dirt of the rooms hurt people were in there wasn't really a whole lot of micromanagement needed.
I think it's a pretty acceptable degree of micromanagement, there are much worse offenders like being unable to prioritize jobs in a particular area without removing all others orders (like constructing a segment of wall, hauling the harvest you just got, etc), but that's not really A17 related.
New build!
I much look forward to all your feedback.
--------
Rebalanced medical tend quality. Factored out 70% starting effectiveness of medical tending by rolling this factor into Medical Tend Quality stat so the stat shows the actual quality. Adjusted Medical Tend Quality stat and added a post-process curve to it; it now gets close to maxing relatively early. Changed how tend quality affects infection chance; now any tending, even at 0% quality, reduces the infection chance by 15%.
Human immunity gain speed is less affected by age, and is affected later.
Rebalanced melee: -Increased melee hit chances across the board. -Adjusted melee hit chance to be curved, so it integrates with capacity offsets better. -Reduced melee dodge chances somewhat, but the values have an effect even at low skill levels. -Increased human unarmed melee attacks damage and reduced cooldown. -Rebalanced shiv, club, knife, mace, and a few other melee weapons a little bit.
Rich explorer scenario 40 glitterworld meds -> 30 glitterworld meds.
Fix: Mortar's forced target is reset after every shot.
Fix: Escaping sappers can sometimes cause 10jobs/10ticks errors.
Increased PathFinder's heuristic strength for sappers.
Fix: Fall asleep threshold can be greater than wake threshold which makes pawns oscillate between resting and sleeping in bed.
Improved PathFinder performance for really long and complex paths.
Fix: Faction adjustment messages have excessive precision.
Rotting corpses are now inedible.
Made sure that you can't equip more than 1 item of the same type when for some reason you have an armor with stackCount != 1 in your caravan's inventory.
World objects can now have a custom description. SiteCore description is now displayed in the info pane.
Fix: Herbivores would consume saguro cacti.
Quote from: Tynan on May 12, 2017, 05:13:45 PM
New build!
I much look forward to all your feedback.
--------
Rotting corpses are now inedible.
Always look forward to these change logs :)
Not sure how I feel about rotting corpses being inedible. Not that I like my people to eat them, but there have been times where a rotten corpse was the only food I had available, and it saved my colony in the middle of a toxic fallout :PJust checked the bugs forum, and saw this reported. I understand the change now :)
Quote from: O Negative on May 12, 2017, 05:21:35 PM
...
I second this. Although eating rotting corpses is gross, disgusting, repulsive, and just absolutely downright awful - they'd still ultimately be edible, albeit extremely unpleasant. Maybe make it so that if a rotten corpse is eaten, throw in an MTB for Gut Worms?
Quote from: Limdood on May 12, 2017, 02:37:13 PM
Or you could notice that about 80% of the posts say "too hard/severe" and 20% say "its fine" and NONE say "too easy"
Quote from: Mehni on May 09, 2017, 07:23:34 PM
Infections are a lot more manageable this iteration 0.17.1533. I'm probably going to be vilified here - but it might be too easy now.
Unless it's in the kidney or liver, infections aren't a guaranteed death sentence. I've had a run or two end due to infections here and there, but nothing that wasn't my fault of completely out of control. They are manageable. A single death generally isn't the end of a colony.
It does make getting herbal medicine more important. Boreal/Temperate forest are even easier in comparison. Arid Shrubland and the other biomes are slightly harder now, due to a lack of healroot foraging. Growing skills are more important.
For posterity's sake, we are now on
Build 1536.
Has anyone been noticing a ridiculous priority for food with colonists? I'm finding myself needing to manually feed everyone meals or else they go for raw food and even human corpses before meals?
Small little thing that doesn't even seem worth posting but in the name of precision....
I noticed that where dirt paths meet running water they just continue over them instead of ending on the banks. Continuing over them would cause a dam, where ending on the banks would cause a forge which makes more sense for a dirt path. Roads and highways you could assume a bridge, but not a dirt path.
Told you it was a small thing.
Quote from: Tynan on May 12, 2017, 05:13:45 PM
Rotting corpses are now inedible.
Is it possible to make rotting elephants/thrumbos butcherable for recieving at least their tusks/horns?
PS Also didnt sure is it bug or intended, but eating agava fruits debuff with "raw food".
A typical tribal start, half my tribe is starving, the other half are worthless and start eating all the pemmican. I micromanage the TWO decent tribe members into hunting and gathering, while the other 3 blunder about attempting to create some sort of shallow cave shelter in the arid shrub, and gathering what supplies they have managed.
A mad animal shows up, shreds both decent tribe members with suprising ease, I utilize the previously mentioned blunder-band to pummel the angry... boomrat. Boom! Everyone's on fire, thankfully one of the brainless ones manage to put themselves out, and rescue the two shredded useful ones.
Now, typically, this is where the story would end - they would get infected and die. But, the balance change resulted in something entirely unexpected. Both shredded tribesman lived, as well as the blunder-band. Now, with everyone injured and no one up for gathering or hunting, we kind of ran out of food, and I was using my one remaining walking tribal to gather plants, before it happened.
Of course, it had to be the one bonded to two wolves. They even took down the tribe's remaining warg. So, strike 4 tribals down. I'm left with one tribal, thankfully one of the useful ones. I butcher all the animals the minute they calm down, and the humans rotted outside. Thankfully, this fellow is a psychopath, and doesn't care, he also doesn't mind eating raw food, which is a plus considering his refusal to do trival tasks such as carrying things around.
So, onwards, he kills as necessary, brings it back to his sheltered shallow cave, and butchers it. Things continue, with minor heat related woes, until I get a call for assistance, someone is being chased by pirates. I'll admit, I planned to carve up both the refuge and the pirates, animals got a little scarce and I was looking for the long term. But, the refuge's amazing ability to pick up, and place objects in stockpiles diverted my plan.
So, I've finally got a hauler, and it was so much easier to get the shallow cave built up into a fairly nice base. It took almost an entire Quadrum, but now I've got a solid base that I can defend, and I've got a healthy amount of farmland to provide food.
Then I get a message - an item cache. I see the magic words: Chain Shotgun, Minigun, Charge Rifle, and in my humble opinion the best weapon ever: the Heavy SMG. So, I figure, I'll take the two tribals I have, and go see about this item cache. I didn't have a lot of food ready to go, but I figured I could always cannibalize the non-violent hauler if necessary. So, I went in slightly ill-prepared food wise.
I arrived at the location, to find myself staring down 19 madden man-hunting raccoons. My fearless hauler decided to take one for the team, screams, and charges into them. Fur is flying in every direction, while my combat ready pila thrower was making his way for the chamber full of priceless weapons. The hauler lasted less than 2 seconds (on normal speed!). They jumped my pila touting warrior in less than 10 seconds after. He did not make it to the door, 10 tiles short. Not only were the raccoons faster than expected, but they were very accurate, considerably more than I expected them to be.
I really am genuinely excited for the combat in these scenarios, I just think my play-style is causing me issues on certain ones, like large numbers of man hunters. (I don't use enough pawns, just a buddy system usually, for combat.) It works fine for turrets and lower amounts of man hunters, but I just struggle with higher numbers.
(Multiple edits because I'm half asleep trying to correct my spelling and grammar, sorry if it is hard to read - it's late here.)
I had a normal tribal start, where I uncovered a ancient tomb filled with megascarabs and nests. I was unable to fight it off so I decided to leave it for later. Fast forward about two weeks and I get a raccoon that has tamed itself, and decides its a good idea to wander into the bug nest. upon getting attacked, it defends itself and causes the bugs, now a huge swarm, to seek more blood, traveling halfway across the map to tear down the walls of my poor, helpless, plagued, sleeping tribes people. However this was probably fortunate for the tribes people as even if they survived the quick mauling of the bugs, and made it through the plague, they probably would have starved and froze to death as a cold snap had wiped out the majority of their crops. Game is hard. Everything is feeling / looking good so far though. However I keep having an issue where it pauses the game for no reason, although it might have been due to the massive swarm of bugs...
I've been noticing a lot of incendiary launchers in raids for this build.
I'm fighting a raid right now that has a steel shiv.. a club...and four incendiary launchers. That's a little extreme. These things used to be rare, now there's at least one in every fight. Is that intended?
The fight didn't result in any human casualties, but I've already lost half the durability on the starter pistol, and about a whole shotgun's worth of durability in only three or four raids..
About the complexity of the game, I wonder if using F# for core game logic would help to "simplify" code.
Love the game immensely @Tynan.
Best game I've played in years, and more than 500 hours deep after buying on Steam around A14. And I played a while pirated before that due to your enkightened view on DRM.
In any case, a couple of things I've noticed after finally jumping into A17.
I like that peg legs can get injured/damaged now, however, they have been 'healing' when I have my prisoners in bed being tended. Not sure if that's intended. It seems more intuitive that I would have to replace the damaged peg-leg with a new one. I'm not far enough in to comment on whether this happens with bionics.
Secondly, setting tables to not be gather spots doesn't seem to stop any of my colonists from eating meals there even if the bedroom they are in is not assigned to them. I feel like before the update pawns would only eat meals in thier own room if the table is set to not be a gather spot, but maybe I just had better table placement for my dining area.
Lastly, I don't play on rediculous difficulties, and my current game is Cassandra rough. I am finding that I am in the camp that says infections are too easy to deal with. I don't even use a proper infirmary with hospital beds, but just allow pawns to be tended in thier own (often poor) beds in rooms with wooden floors. I do always have a pawn with cleaning at priority 1, so the rooms are clean, but my most recent raid left 3 of my 6 pawns out of actions, and 2 more prisoners needing care too. Ran out of herbal meds (which are almost too readily available in the temperate temperate forest we reside in) and while all but one of my pawns was still healing my (luckily) uninjured doctor was hit with malaria.
(side note: hit with Malaria in the middle of winter? what is this, Randy Random?)
End of story, I was able to self tend the doctor (skill 11 this whole time) and everyone survived with basic no med tending while he was not in bed resting. Including the prisoner who got an infection and was given no meds at all, but was tended to.
Thanks again for the amazing work you do, and hopefully some of this is relevant to you.
By the time you're able to safely raid a pirate base, you have no need for any of the loot they have. Doesn't give any incentive to raid pirate bases.
I'm liking many of the new features, with the new auto-switching/higher wattage sunlamp at the top. It actually gives a purpose to designs that aren't just spamming generators (in wooded areas anyhow).
I have noticed some other things though - it seems with the enhanced AI that the battle scaling is a little too aggressive (unless the intent is to effectively scale the difficulty up). Just faced off 12 very well-armed pirates with my band of 6; in A15, that would have been fairly trivial as they would have fixated on a single target, which I would have arranged to be well covered..but now, it was an incredibly difficult battle and took heavy casualties. Nobody died, but the hospital looked like a slaughterhouse..
- The enemy chainguns were incredibly accurate, hitting about 60% of the time with a 2-skill pawn against someone covered by granite walls and sandbags - not bad for someone at max range and literally 1 in shooting skill. Fortunately an enemy grenade killed both enemy chainguns. The tooltip from the enemy's perspective didn't show anything unusual either. It did seem like it was shooting 5-6 times instead of 3 though.
- Fire continues to be annoying. Although there weren't any incendiary launchers this time, there were two molotovs. Catching pawns that are on fire and running around is really hit and miss. They need to be less spazzy, especially as it's necessary to un-recruit the second pawn to put the first pawn's fire out, and they then wander away..
- Micro seems to be increasing enormously, especially if I'm going to have to equip friend-killer el-cheapo weapons like incendiaries and grenades to counter the enemy zerg. Maybe...too much. I'm all for micromanaging around enemy break-throughs and such (they seem much more capable now), but having to make sure my friendlies aren't throwing grenades into a melee fight would be insane.
- Are raids more frequent, or is it my imagination? Same evening as the prior one, another raid appears (the prior one was one of the pursing-a-pawn types though). Much smaller this time - just seven pirates...with two molotovs.
(Cassandra Rough)
Quote from: iota_x on May 13, 2017, 11:14:22 AM
I like that peg legs can get injured/damaged now, however, they have been 'healing' when I have my prisoners in bed being tended. Not sure if that's intended. It seems more intuitive that I would have to replace the damaged peg-leg with a new one. I'm not far enough in to comment on whether this happens with bionics.
Bionics also "heal". It's always been that way. Trust me, you don't want it any other way - in vanilla, bionics only come by once in a blue moon. Also big hearty NO to peg leg replacement. It's still possible to lose a pawn to peg-leg installation...
Quote from: iota_x on May 13, 2017, 11:14:22 AM
Lastly, I don't play on rediculous difficulties, and my current game is Cassandra rough. I am finding that I am in the camp that says infections are too easy to deal with. I don't even use a proper infirmary with hospital beds, but just allow pawns to be tended in thier own (often poor) beds in rooms with wooden floors. I do always have a pawn with cleaning at priority 1, so the rooms are clean, but my most recent raid left 3 of my 6 pawns out of actions, and 2 more prisoners needing care too. Ran out of herbal meds (which are almost too readily available in the temperate temperate forest we reside in) and while all but one of my pawns was still healing my (luckily) uninjured doctor was hit with malaria.
You basically DO have an infirmary with that cleaning 1 stuff, and a quality doctor. Note that the quality of the bed doesn't matter at all. If you mark it as a medical bed, it's the same still (+10% to immunity gain). Only the actual researched hospital bed matters, and it's only by a small amount (4%, 6% with a vitals monitor IIRC..)
If the goal is to force infected people into beds, the bed immunity gain factors (10, 14, 16%) would have to increase a lot, prior to any increase in infection lethality...
Quote from: Renegrade on May 13, 2017, 01:07:10 PM
- Are raids more frequent, or is it my imagination? Same evening as the prior one, another raid appears (the prior one was one of the pursing-a-pawn types though). Much smaller this time - just seven pirates...with two molotovs.
(Cassandra Rough)
Registered to post about this exact problem. Same difficulty. Had a raid with like 2x or 3x my colonists number, ended up losing a colonist. Then literally the SAME DAY another raid comes in with another 2x or 3x my colonists number and kills off the rest of them. This was first year, barely set up colony, not even 40 days in.
First raid was pirates, 12 or 13 of them to my 6 colonists. Shotgun to the face killed one of my colonists.
Second raid was tribals, another 12 or 13 of them to my 5 colonists who had just gotten treated in their beds. Defenses are busted from the earlier raid so it was essentially impossible to stop them.
This seems to be a recurring theme in this update. The storyteller tends to keep beating up on you repeatedly then giving you a long reprieve. In a previous game I had pirates, mechanoids, then tribals in quick succession.
Here's my experience with the build from May 12th, about the diseases and infections. I'll go ahead and say, I do kinda suck at this game, despite the ridiculous amount of time I've played it. I've never been able to play on extreme difficulties, and rough usually hands me my own ass. I find diseases way easier a challenge to work with than raids, personally, and I don't mind the micromanagement and personal observation of pawns. I kinda like it actually, but I do have a "Sims" background rather than a dwarf fortress background.
-------
Crash landed, Arid Shrub land, Randy Random, Rough
Day 18
One pawn, age 20 with Plague
Normal bed, sand floor, regular medicine
Bed rest the whole time, only a few micromanages
All better in 3 days
Day 32
3 pawns with infections
a bit of unit of standard medicine left, trapped from herbal meds by manhunter pack. All are in stone tiled bloody bedrooms.
Graham, 20
Infection in Torso. Good Bed.
Stone, 36
Infection in Torso. Poor Bed
Benton, 21
Infection in Torso. Poor Bed
Began also suffering from starvation, as they were trapped by Alphabeavers.
Day 33
Rooms have been cleared up. Still trapped by alpha beavers, running out of medicine. Primary carer is Mie, doctor skill 6, and is suffering severe bloodloss, and back up is Rob, doctor skill 5, and is frail and missing an eye. The dog died of bloodloss and has become our only meal source.
Benton has a major infection, 35% infected/35% immunity. Still has severe bloodloss.
Stone has a major infection 36% infected/33% immunity. Moderate bloodloss
Graham has 55% infected/54% immunity. Moderate bloodloss
Day 34
Just after midnight, Graham died from his infection, with immunity 80%.
We have run out of medicine. Prisoner went berserk, and was mauled by beavers.
7am, Stone hits extreme infection. 79% infected/79% immunity, bloodloss minor. Cannot reach herbal medicine due to beavers.
17h, Benton has gained immunity, despite food poisoning from eating a rotten husky. His infection hit extreme, numbers unknown since I assumed he'd die.
19h, Stone has developed immunity.
The beavers have fled, so now they will not have to resort to eating Graham's corpse.
---------
I feel like the diseases are fairly balanced at the moment. I'm losing some pawns, but not necessarily all of them.
As an aside on the rivers cutting through mountains, this is how you get caves. Sure, real caves keep going deeper and deeper, but I think this unusual geologic features actually help to bring a feel that this isn't actually earth.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
I've only played one A17 game so far, and am about one in-game year into my play through right now. I really love the way the world map is shaping up with roads and rivers now, and roads providing faster travel between locations. I also like, conceptually, the new quest system. Unfortunately, I have passed on nearly every quest so far though. The "pay for location of something" quests don't give good enough rewards for me to spend silver buying the location and then sending a chunk of my force out to try and beat the turrets (away from my base, leaving it vulnerable to raids). Similarly, the "please take out this bandit camp for a reward" quests seem too difficult. This is based on limited experience in A17, but I sent 4 of my 7 colonists, the ones with my best weapons, armor, and fighting skills, to a bandit camp. This was the third such quest I received so far this game so my expectation was that it would be balanced for my current colony size. I was waaay wrong. A dozen or so well armed enemies swarmed me and there was no cover at all around the edges of the map where I could hide. The whole thing was over in maybe 10 seconds. A complete wipe of my raiding party. All but three enemies were hidden inside their base so I had no way of knowing before engaging what I was up against. Perhaps some sort of scouting mechanism would help here.
I think the quest difficulties and risk/reward need more balancing. It's not that I expect every quest to be easy or even approachable, but right now it doesn't seem like any are worth the risk. But I love the idea and think it could definitely be improved.
My last comment is that more information on what is changing would be very helpful. I did see one or two posts that mention changes between builds, but more than that, anyone coming into the A17 unstable branch would benefit greatly from a list of features that have been added or enhanced/re-balanced. I find myself only testing features that are obviously new or different. For example, I fell into my old habit of hunting manually by drafting one or more colonists because I recall the old automated hunting was very inefficient. Has it been improved? I have no idea, because I am not going to test every single feature unless I have some indication that it has changed.
Nice improvements overall, looking forward to more!
EDIT: I am playing on Cassandra Rough
Quote from: iota_x on May 13, 2017, 11:14:22 AM
Lastly, I don't play on rediculous difficulties, and my current game is Cassandra rough. I am finding that I am in the camp that says infections are too easy to deal with. I don't even use a proper infirmary with hospital beds, but just allow pawns to be tended in thier own (often poor) beds in rooms with wooden floors. I do always have a pawn with cleaning at priority 1, so the rooms are clean, but my most recent raid left 3 of my 6 pawns out of actions, and 2 more prisoners needing care too. Ran out of herbal meds (which are almost too readily available in the temperate temperate forest we reside in) and while all but one of my pawns was still healing my (luckily) uninjured doctor was hit with malaria.
You've still got a good doctor and clean area. In this case, infection should be a literal non-issue. That's just not a problem.
Infection is a danger when things aren't all shiny that way - you've just fought a battle in your base, there's blood everywhere, etc. That's when infection should be a serious danger, and it is it.
If infection is a danger when you've got clean rooms and a good doctor, it's a game-stopper when you don't have those things, and that kind of sucks if you've just fought off a big raid or been randomly bitten by a squirrel on day 1.
Quote from: Wintersdark on May 13, 2017, 04:59:28 PM
You've still got a good doctor and clean area. In this case, infection should be a literal non-issue.
Infections are a huge issue even with our modern doctors in our modern hospitals. Why should a rag-tag group of people living in the wilderness be somehow immune to this threat?
I started a new colony on Cass extreme yesterday with the latest build. Infections are ridiculously easy to combat. They're a bit more prevalent than A16, but much less deadly. I saved one guy with no meds at all, just tending without meds. On extreme difficulty.
I feel like it's overwhelming and unfair when 4 of your colonists get hit by malaria before you have hospital beds, especially on a non-jungle map and you get hit by raids before and after it.
It is impossible to prevent exploits from games. I know. But I think I need to report, so I leave a message.
It is a way to damage the roof of a merchant's muffalo. The muffalo's health point is high and does not die easily. It just bleeds. the bleeding is stunned. It has been difficult at Alpha 17 but still possible.
Create a small roof area and drop the roof when the target muffalo. comes in alone. . If the bleeding of the muffalo is over a certain level, it stuns and rescues the muffalo. Then you can get items from muffalo. Muffalo has been rescue and has no penalty.
It may seem difficult, but it will be easier than you think.
http://i.imgur.com/LIDE2qI.jpg
It seem the latest update have removed the 5% Globe Coverage in Dev mode. A oversight?
By the way, loving the crafting hysteresis options being vanilla now. The roads and rivers are neat and add depth and flavor to site selection and such too.
One thing I've noted however in my playthroughs is that I tend to lack people to actually participate in any sort of caravan-y activities for a looong time. Five or six people can't really be divided too well, especially if there's an assault at the other end of the trip...
Quote from: Skinnay on May 14, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
Infections are a huge issue even with our modern doctors in our modern hospitals. Why should a rag-tag group of people living in the wilderness be somehow immune to this threat?
Keep in mind that it's a game, not real life... Plus I have yet to die from an untreated scratch in real life either (I'm kinda "rub dirt in it and walk it off" when it comes to most medical things in real life).
The scenario you describe is more of an issue for people who are near-death. In the game, as it stands now, there's no real difference between a squirrel bite and someone who was turned into chutney, infection-wise, even though the latter should have a lot more problems than the former.
Quantity of pathogens matter, especially for bacterial ones.
<Insert joke here about "Hospital Architect">
100+ days into the build 1536, cassandra extreme, tundra, crashlanded:
*infection: they seem to be much easier to control for young healthy pawns, with a 17% tend quality, my 33 years old colonist's immunity kept building up faster than the infection severity on a wooden bed. I started with a 81 yo colonist but she didn't get infected. i treat with default on herbal, have still 10 medicines from the 30 original medicine. there is a lot of herbal medicine to forage
*raids: the peak of difficulty seems still to be around the end of year 1, maybe if the next raids are still under control i'll send a small team to raid an outpost
*quests:
-trade opportunity: had a small one early, 1 wooden longsword for 300+ silver, around day 25. It is interesting, relatively easy to realize and worth it. But i don't remember having any other trade opportunity since, some more would be appreciated, they are a really good reason to form small trading caravans early
-outposts: i don't really have the manpower to fight an outpost yet, so they are more mid-end game quests. given my economy, 2000 silver seem a reasonable reward
-item stash: here again more mid-end game quests
*population cap/recruitement: i really like the very low probability of the wanderer joining, so far had 0. Early got a few space refugees, then chased refugees, my population grew to 8 pawns reached day 60 then no real opportunity for the last 50 days. good change too, maybe i'll build a prison and start recruiting.
*room system: more balanced for beauty, sculptures are more valuable, we can easily use barracks (maybe too easily, actually i have only one large living room)
More feedback as I continue my A17 playthrough (A17.1536 currently)
I've had more experience with quests since my last reply to this thread. I have had some caravan requests that I was able to fulfill (as well as some I was not able to). There are a bunch of crop requests. The ability to see the crop yield in-game in the info screen would help the player know how much to plant to try and meet a trade request.
I also did a couple "loot stash" quests. The second was particularly interesting. I attacked with two snipers and two chain-shotgunners against two well armored defenders with 5 turrets and a mortar. I sniped the solar panels and batteries to power down the turrets (taking pot shots at the defenders if they came into LOS). It wasn't until I took out the first solar panel that one of the two defenders came at me. The other was manning the mortar. He fell very quickly when he rounded the edge of a hill to run right into my two chain-shotgunners. My snipers then took out the other defender. I took a little damage from one mortar round, but nothing too serious. I claimed the base but was bummed to see how heavy the turrets were. Even with three alpacas for loot I couldn't carry any of the turrets back with me. The loot was worth it regardless, four neurotrainers! Plus a suit of good power armor and a good charge rifle from one of the defenders. It would have been much harder with the same number of pawns if I had not brought two sniper rifles, since I wouldn't be able to out-range the turrets.
I have not attempted any more "raider revenge" quests to take out bases since my last attempt was such a disaster and I haven't really increased my colony size much since then. I feel like the colony size you need for these quests is large enough that you could have completed the spaceship by then already. Or maybe I just grow my colony size slower than other people. If they are intended to be a late game challenge that's fine too.
The other thing I want to mention is something that has been on my mind since my earlier games in A15ish. Crafting is currently the only skill that is broken out into multiple separate jobs, but I still feel it needs more granularity. In particular, I often want to have "last priority" jobs active for smelting and making stone blocks. Sometimes I want them to be higher priority if I have an immediate need for the resources, but usually I just want to put those two things at a much lower priority than other crafting tasks. This is a scenario I find myself in so often that I wish I had a separate job to prioritize (or deprioritize) for these two tasks.
As with others I have noticed that raids appear more frequent than before (Cass rough), and it seems that every raid has one guy with an incendiary launcher and several more with grenades. The incendiary launchers are particularly irritating because a pawn on fire often runs into the middle of a firefight and gets killed by my own guys, and even if it hits noone it often starts massive wildfires that take forever to get under control. Perhaps these things could be made a bit rarer?
Are animals supposed to run into a fire instead of pathing around it? I had to save one of my huskies because he decided that running straight through a small forest fire was a better choice than going around it. :/
Also, as the fire spread it killed almost all the animals in the area as they didn't seem to move away from it. And when they caught on fire, they couldn't seem to extinguish themselves before becoming incapacitated from their injuries. This included muffalo, ostrich, pigs, and goats.
Also, alphabeavers showed up while the fire was just burning out and over half of them ran straight into what was left of the fire and burned. I suspect perhaps they were trying to eat the trees that were burning. But it was still a bit, um, unbelievable to watch. Lol
The other comments about incendiary launchers reminds me of a peculiar issue I had with them.
I was attacked by a small raid with 1-2 incendiary launchers. I had my bunkers set up by then, so I wasn't overly worried by the raid, but I remember being irritated that I'd clear-cut two tiles outside of my walls, but the grass had already grown back in. Has the grass regrow rate been increased? It seemed like a full time job to keep the grass from my courtyard and my perimeter.
Also, another note, the friendly fire rate for drafted pawns is still ridiculously high. The vast majority of the wounds I received in that raid were due to my pawns auto-targeting the melee pawn engaging my one melee dude; shot the shit outta my sniper who was in the line of fire a few tiles away from the shooters.
I'm playing A17.1536 right now and 2 pawns got Malaria. So... bed rest, medicine, and all that. Everything was normal, 61% infection / 71% immunity, they got the medicine, so i start to focus on others things. Then one of them get out of the bed, and when i look the disease wasnt there anymore. He did not developed immunity, just puft... nothing.
So i reloaded an autosave, and tryed again. Same thing, both "lost" Malaria when immunity was 73%.
Normal Medicine, one in a hospital bed, but the other on a medical bed.
Edit... i played a little more, and they are still sick, but the disease is hidden.
A couple notes regarding jobs. I really like that when attempting to force-assign a task to a pawn it will tell me in the context menu that someone else is already assigned to it, but I can still force-assign the task and it will override whoever was previously assigned. This is a great enhancement.
The second comment is that pawns still lock an entire stack when going to get a single item from it. This causes other job attempts to fail if there are no other available stacks for whatever the item is. This causes problems a lot for me after raids when multiple pawns need medical attention at the same time. Typically one will get normal medicine while the rest get herbal medicine. I have to manually cancel the 2nd+ doctor tasks and re-start them one at a time so they will get medicine from the single stack of it in sequence. One possible solution is to allow locking individual items in a stack. Anyone else going for the stack would then see only the unlocked (available) number and would leave behind the locked ones if taking the whole stack. This is also occasionally a problem with food when stacks of the good stuff are low, and with other resources occasionally like artillery shells.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 14, 2017, 10:34:04 PMI remember being irritated that I'd clear-cut two tiles outside of my walls, but the grass had already grown back in.
If you build a roof two tiles out from your walls over the cut area, vegetation will not grow under it due to a lack of sunlight. You could also put down flooring, but roofs are free.
Can anyone confirm if the abrasive trait have any effect anymore? I got a pawn with it, and I never seem to catch him provoking anyone. Well, I found he had slighted someone once, but really, I got colonists without the trait that does that more than him, he's literally the nicest dude in the colony atm (most well liked overall).
I tested a little more, and is not only at 73% immunity. I delayed the treatment, and they "lost" again at something like 73% infection / 85% immunity. Look like is something related to the % difference between infection/immunity, 10~12 and the disease is hidden.
Anyone else having severe problems trading for $ or finding bionics?
I generally make furniture and art for money since weapons sell for pennies but exotic traders don't buy furniture any more ? Couches at least. And they never seem to reset their trade inventory (maybe just reset it to something similar). It's been 2 years and all the 2 factions have are joy wires and power claws.
edit: grammar is hard.
Quote from: wyoian on May 15, 2017, 12:30:25 PM
Anyone else having severe problems trading for $ or finding bionics?
3 years in, tundra, extreme, i've only traded with trade ships and trade caravans passing by. It's harder to make money, but i guess the idea is you should make your own clothes/weapons/armors.
So far i've bought 2 bionic parts: a bionic arm and a bionic leg. Iirc traders didn't have much more. I've looked carefully to raiders, one had a bionic eye and one a bionic arm, both died. I've not called for traders because they come often enough spontaneoulsy to buy my stock, and their fare is high.
It's barely enough to install parts on pawns missing limbs. I decided to install a peg leg instead on a pawn with missing a foot and i would give the bionic leg to a more strategic pawn. The bionic arm was for a crafter whose radius was shattered. I still have one colonist with an eye shot out, but i haven't seen an offer for a bionic eye.
So yes, harder to get but certainely part of the new balance to spice up the mid game.
Quote from: wyoian on May 15, 2017, 12:30:25 PM
Anyone else having severe problems trading for $ or finding bionics?
I generally make furniture and art for money since weapons sell for pennies but exotic traders don't buy furniture any more ? Couches at least. And they never seem to reset their trade inventory (maybe just reset it to something similar). It's been 2 years and all the 2 factions have are joy wires and power claws.
I've been able to get 2 bionic arms and 1 bionic leg so far, no bionic eye though, but haven't actively sought them out (and I'm 4 years in). I've also been able to sell furniture to bulk goods traders, and found silver being consistently easy to get by fulfilling trade requests. :3 I'm also still able to empty local trade caravans for silver by selling the usual raid loots alongside stuff like smokeleaf joints.
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on May 15, 2017, 01:10:00 PM
3 years in, tundra, extreme, i've only traded with trade ships and trade caravans passing by. It's harder to make money, but i guess the idea is you should make your own clothes/weapons/armors.
So far i've bought 2 bionic parts: a bionic arm and a bionic leg. Iirc traders didn't have much more. I've looked carefully to raiders, one had a bionic eye and one a bionic arm, both died. I've not called for traders because they come often enough spontaneoulsy to buy my stock, and their fare is high.
It's barely enough to install parts on pawns missing limbs. I decided to install a peg leg instead on a pawn with missing a foot and i would give the bionic leg to a more strategic pawn. The bionic arm was for a crafter whose radius was shattered. I still have one colonist with an eye shot out, but i haven't seen an offer for a bionic eye.
So yes, harder to get but certainely part of the new balance to spice up the mid game.
I do certainly make all my own clothes. Devilstrand still eludes me due to cold snaps and the increased growth time.
On all previous alphas I was never forced to use simple prosthetics on as many pawns as i am now. I have only seen 2 legs, few joywires and some power claws and I'm 4 years in. And I used to focus on calling in exotic goods and selling them couches but maybe i need to start making joints and selling other things to bulk goods traders. Seems like trade ships have much less than a16 too.
Quote from: ShadowTani on May 15, 2017, 01:52:37 PM
I've been able to get 2 bionic arms and 1 bionic leg so far, no bionic eye though, but haven't actively sought them out (and I'm 4 years in). I've also been able to sell furniture to bulk goods traders, and found silver being consistently easy to get by fulfilling trade requests. :3 I'm also still able to empty local trade caravans for silver by selling the usual raid loots alongside stuff like smokeleaf joints.
Maybe i'll make joints. Crafters are generally busy making combat gear currently, but i'll try that instead of furniture.
edit: can't english
QuoteMaybe i'll make joints. Crafters are generally busy making combat gear currently, but i'll try that instead of furniture.
Put a smoke-leaf specific stockpile immediately next to the crafting station, and set the bill to drop on the ground. They'll crank out the joints fast as hell, then get back to whatever important task you want them to.
Thanks everyone! I've moved some posts to the Bugs forum and taken notes on others. I think the game's working pretty well but there are some quirks I still want to resolve. Look forward to new test build(s) soon.
i just started a new game for the first time with the last build and i got an horrible new.... the skill bars are collapsed into smaller ones during the choice of the pawns, they are so much short that are not useful as graphic tool for the choice of the characters, only numbers works fine
is it intended or bug? i use italian translation, could it be the cause? never happened before :(
during the game i noticed the raid rate is reduced, i got only 2 attacks in 1 year (one of them was a pirate raid after a refugee joined me..
Okay! A new build is going up. This is build 1539.
Feedback is very useful, please keep it coming!
---------------
In bills detail window, don't print "Minimum skills: (none)". Just print nothing if there are no required skills.
Producing smokeleaf joints no longer relates to Intellectual skill or to DrugProductionSpeed stat. It is now a skill-less bill.
Item stash location fee reduced.
Faction bases in general have a bit fewer defenders. Outpost SitePart (used in bandit camp quest and elsewhere) percentage of faction base combat power 50% -> 40%. Quest rewards are a bit more consistent (2k->3k now)
Water ripples are scaled larger.
Refactored some debug output into the data analysis classes.
Made grenadiers much less common.
Added a new debug readout to show the proportions of a given pawn kind that spawn with various weapons. Reduced commonality of incendiary launcher and increased commonality of survival rifle.
Revert "Fix: Players could accidentally generate a 5%-coverage planet if in dev mode."
Fix: Pawn footprints occasionally cause rendering issues.
Fix: Very long and complex paths cause huge lags.
Fix: Starting factions with low goodwill can still be non-hostile, leaving them in a kind of weird interaction limbo.
Fix: PathFinder.DebugDrawRichData() highlights incorrect cells. PathFinder no longer uses an unnecessarily large array.
Fix: Pawns can get perpetually stuck in WaitDowned job if something malfunctions when exiting Downed state.
Fix: Item stash threats are always shown, even if they should be unknown.
Fix: Pawns attacking due to their "configurable hostility response" stand still indefinitely if the target goes out of sight.
Handle bed reservations properly.
Fix: Burned trees not chopped down when constructing floors.
Fix: TouchPathEndModeUtility can sometimes cause errors.
Fix: Force-override-job doesn't work properly with rescuing, capturing, and taking people to cryptosleep.
Fix: If you sell a prisoner and buy him back then he has a null faction which causes bugs.
Fix: Comments in patch files break the patch file.
Fixed some problems with interacting with things diagonally. It's now possible to work on wall frames diagonally (though not blueprints).
Fix: Downed arrested colonists give 2 float menu options: Rescue and Capture, and Rescue doesn't do anything.
Fix: Arrested colonists appear twice in the form caravan dialog, once in the colonists section and once in the prisoners section.
Fix: Birth dates use seasons instead of quadrums.
Reverted the ScribeSaver change because on some computers it now takes too long to save a game.
Fix: "Log plant proportions" debug option sometimes causes errors.
Fix: Pawns will automatically roof in wind turbines if used to complete a room.
Fix: Pawns and animals can mutually enter an endless inescapable milk/nuzzle cycle.
Fix: Removing an infected eye gives the recipe as "amputate" instead of "remove".
Fix: Non-sown plants, specifically Ambrosia, can be targeted by Blight.
Fix: Mod settings don't initialize properly if a mod settings file doesn't already exist.
Fix: Error spam when loading a caravan.
Fix: Herds gradually migrate to the southwest corner of the map.
Optimized and refactored StoryTracker a bit.
WorkGivers can now be disabled directly by WorkTags (instead of only WorkTypes being able to be disabled). Intellectual WorkTag now disabled "produce drugs" WorkGiver.
Various typo fixes.
Removed pop idol Tribal spawn category.
Quote from: Tynan on May 15, 2017, 05:55:07 PM
Okay! A new build is going up. This is build 1539.
Feedback is very useful, please keep it coming!
Wow lots of fixes in this just wondering should i be making new saves per each build?
Quote from: Tynan on May 15, 2017, 05:55:07 PM
Okay! A new build is going up. This is build 1539.
Fix: Very long and complex paths cause huge lags.
I can play again! Was happy when i first found my seed but the lag for any smart raids was unbearable. Seems fixed now :)
Quote from: Tynan on May 15, 2017, 05:55:07 PM
Revert "Fix: Players could accidentally generate a 5%-coverage planet if in dev mode."
Looking good as always, I just wanted to say thanks for reverting this change. I was worried that the 5% coverage was going away for good. Very happy to see the island maps again.
Just uploaded a creative content and translations update. Same build number as before.
I'm still getting raids very commonly on Cassandra rough. I barely have time to clean up the mess before another raid comes along. I mean I like raids but sometimes I'd like a break to get my feet back under me.
I notice a weird issues with the graphical layering on build 1539 where rubble appears over trees and spawned on a ship chunk, and the initial starting steel/wood also spawned on top of trees.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
That's WAD. Don't like it myself, would prefer proper draw depth on chunks, but it's not a bug, and it's not new to A17.
Can anyone else comment on raid frequency?
Any hard data would also be useful. As in, exact recorded raid times. There should be a record of it in the History tab.
A quest system sounds great (saw it on Steam), but I think it'll add a bit of opportunity for some other stuff. As in there can be an alternative ending that isn't just ship leaving orbit. Just throwing that out there if it already hasn't.
Anyhow, great work, the alpha looks more like the actual release than, well, an alpha.
Raids feel like they happen less often than in previous games, but I only play with Randy Random, so I can't really comment outside of that. My current game has 2 hours into it Randy Random/Rough, about 31 days, and I've had three raids outside of wanderers calling for help. The first two raids (day 3 and day 12) had one person, and the last one was a tribal raiding party of 3 (Day 29).
Just with this set up, in previous alphas I struggled a lot more on rough, and I think it definitely feels easier so far. The raids have been smallish and easy to handle, and if I had a few more colonists, I would definitely take up missions and leave the base more.
I had two strange things during play today.
First, Agave x 2319 was requested as a quest. Agave is a wild plant, it is impossible to obtain on a large scale.
Second, the malaria disappeared during treatment and then returned after a period of time. If it is not intended, it may be that there is something wrong with checking the incubation status of the disease.
Not sure that it is a bug, but I'm noticing my cooks don't gain joy (from passion) 'while' cooking only when they finish cooking something, but planters gain joy while in the process of planting. This is especially noticeable if you set a pawn to only cook, and one only to grow, both having equal passion. From a home cook perspective, I enjoy the act of cooking more than when I finish cooking.
Regarding raid frequency, and the history tab - it might be helpful to include the storyteller and difficulty changes in the history tab; because otherwise you might skew data by starting a game at peaceful, and changing later to rough for example.
Also, you can get offers that require trade beacons as tribals early in the game, way before you could possibly research it.
Quote from: Tynan on May 15, 2017, 11:07:19 PM
Can anyone else comment on raid frequency?
Any hard data would also be useful. As in, exact recorded raid times. There should be a record of it in the History tab.
SaveFile : https://www.dropbox.com/s/d654ix67k574soy/eastSave.zip?dl=0
History Scr : http://i.imgur.com/vn1ubLw.png
Custom scenario : http://i.imgur.com/Z7szdSY.png
A17.1536 // Cassandra Classic Extreme Permadeath mode.
I played 16 hours over two days. I used only simple convenience mod. As the game progressed, I did not use the turrets and traps.
If you do not care about other languages, you will be able to see the raid cycle and scale through this video. Look at the quick view of the video.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/143538475 1:14:30~end
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/144010673 start~end
I've played more games, and the raid thing seems like it might be more to do with chance (possibly a bias in the randomness, or just luck).
I played two saves for the update prior to 1539, here's the numbers:
Save A17-4 (build 1536): 7 raids in 68 days. Only four showing on history graph (7 in stats tab) though.
Save A17-3 (build 1536): 13 raids in 98 days.
Save A17-2 (build 1535): 17 raids in 115 days.
Save A17-1 (build 1534): 23 raids in 161 days.
Save A17 (build 1532): 9 raids in 61 days.
A17-4 feels almost quiet (1 raid every 10 days on average) - the others were averaging one raid a week (6.5 to 7.5 days break in between). They were ALL Cassandra Rough except for A17-3 which was Cassandra Extreme.
One thing I'll note is that in a recent save, there's been a couple of times with two raids in the same day, usually as a result of the "pirates chasing a fugitive" event being followed on by a spontaneous raid later that same day. Those fugitive events also seem to be tougher than the non-fugitive ones (noticeably higher number of enemy pawns).
Also I'm not seeing quite as many fire implements as I did before, but still seems like more than A16. Or maybe they're just more effective than before? Oh well, door firing solved that problem. I'm actually using a primitive kill box too for the first time ever.. it seems oddly effective though.. the enemies seemed to ignore most of my pawns and rushed the internal door..?
Anyhow, another important note is that the positives are outweighing the negatives so far in the update. There's lots of neat things going on, and I love the little touches like UI improvements and water ripples and such. The world feels much more alive with the additional communication with other settlements, bandit camps, etc.
NB: My highest experience so far is with build 1536 - I haven't tried the 1539 build yet.
Only 1 Save. Cassandra Intense (never swapped) Crazy few raids.
(http://puu.sh/vRxMH/2b1fbd1664.png)
Almost what, 70 days without 1 raid? Is that even possible on cassandra?
Quote from: wyoian on May 16, 2017, 03:06:59 AM
Almost what, 70 days without 1 raid? Is that even possible on cassandra?
All the raids are not labelled on the history chart, you should have a look in the statistics.
Quote from: Renegrade on May 16, 2017, 02:47:30 AM
A17-4 feels almost quiet (1 raid every 10 days on average) - the others were averaging one raid a week (6.5 to 7.5 days break in between). They were ALL Cassandra Rough except for A17-3 which was Cassandra Extreme.
That's pretty it for my game, build 1536, cassandra extreme, day 171, 27 major threats, 19 raids (out of which 4 chased refugees accepted). Slightly under 1 raid / 10 days if you consider the default raids only. I had no infestation (no overhead mountain tile), a few ships, 2-3 manhunterpacks.
Regarding the population 11 colonists, chronologically:
3 crashlanded (Jupiter, Sadako, Pablo)
1 space refugee (Farley)
1 space refugee (Zeppy - case prison)
1 space refugee (Stumpy "the mule" - case prison - kidnapped during a solo caravan trip... http://imgur.com/uH5YS8R)
1 raider recruited (Toad)
1 chased refugee (Poppy)
1 chased refugee (Carter)
1 wanderer joining (Hanna)
1 chased refugee (Calvin)
1 chased refugee (Laila)
The population graph: http://imgur.com/LHV5ITT
Regarding grenadiers i didn't really notice the difference. I could see there are no longer the well equipped raiders of earlier A17 builds, i could see more incendiary launchers (compared to A16) and if you waited a bit more rocket launchers (http://imgur.com/mIcNuvj).
I'm going to give a try to the rich explorer scenario in the latest build
Quote from: Renegrade on May 16, 2017, 02:47:30 AMOne thing I'll note is that in a recent save, there's been a couple of times with two raids in the same day, usually as a result of the "pirates chasing a fugitive" event being followed on by a spontaneous raid later that same day. Those fugitive events also seem to be tougher than the non-fugitive ones (noticeably higher number of enemy pawns).
Just wanted to report that, too. Had a fugitive event yesterday and fought down his chasers. Shortly after 5 scythers appeared and quickly wasted me due to their range and numbers (I only have 3 mediocre shooters). After rage quitting and reloading the autosave created in between those events, a siege event was spawned instead of the scythers which was way easier to defeat. I both cases, the second event was accompanied by mad animals. Wild guess: Maybe the storyteller aggressiveness score is added to instead of reducing it by the fugitive event?
Oh and btw., if those two events were meant to be equal in strength, they weren't by far. It was ways easier to snipe half of the siegers and force their attack than to kill just one scyther, as they instakilled everything coming in their range. Best but most lame way to defeat these fuckers still is a huge wall around the base with narrow tunnel like entrances (to prevent shooting from outside the wall) with their exits covered by auto turrets. But that's nothing one could afford in the first year, at least in a map without mountains.
I haven't played A17 that much, but raids on Cassandra Extreme feel pretty similar to A16. Some things I've noticed though:
- Setting a new default healthcare option for colonists doesn't seem to do anything.
- Wild healroot is sometimes hidden behind trees. Harvesting over the area reveals where they are.
- And it would be great if you could make deaths have their own sound. Pretty freaky hearing that sound and finding out that it was just a food poisoning or a failed construction job !
Quote from: Rah on May 16, 2017, 04:55:52 AM
- And it would be great if you could make deaths have their own sound. Pretty freaky hearing that sound and finding out that it was just a food poisoning or a failed construction job !
So much this! My poor heart. Maybe keep that one for deaths since we're used to it and have a different one for minor events? Kinda like the "x is fully healed" sound.
-Regarding raid frequency
In version 1536, using Randy Random Intense, I was getting raided approx. every 4-5 days (9 raids over 47 days). Over those 47 days, I had 11 "Major Threats", so at least one every 4.2 days.
It does feel like major threats, including raids, happen a lot more frequently, and ramp up in difficulty a lot faster, than in A16. Randy Intense in A17.1536, as a result, actually feels more difficulty than Randy Extreme did in A16. Unfortunately, I don't see stats for total raiders killed/downed, but I'm sure I'm close to 50 downed/killed, over that 47 day period.
-Regarding enemy AI
I've had to cheese the new AI in order to survive the frequent, and big raids. They still fall for non-elaborate kill-zones, using armed colonists instead of turrets, but I'm glad that they now tunnel through perimeter walls, to attack from multiple angles (the old murder-labyrinth trick seems less useful now). It's just that they tend to stack up once again when they reach my inner base, if tempted by a small opening with all my colonists waiting inside, standing ready with a firing line.
I do believe it will be much harder to defend bigger colonies now, though, unless you manage to trick the AI by abusing their pathing and targeting priority. Like, they still seem compelled to enter killzones, getting swatted one by one, it just takes a more conscious baiting effort bait now, unlike before.
I'll play the newest build (1539) and report back.
In response to raiders.
I play Cassandra rough. I haven't noticed more or less raiders, but it does feel like I get more when I have more wealth. If I find a silver vein or I happen to get more traders early on, I get more Raiders. If I am poor, then I can go a quad (or sometimes two) without a raider. If I lack raiders, Cassandra makes up for it with mad animals and manhunter packs of bunnies. It also feels like I get fewer cargo pods, and the cargo pods contain less.
It definitely feels like I get far less pawns though. The "wanderer Joins" almost never happens anymore. Much more common is the "Chased by pirates" but it seems I keep getting bad pawns in those. Half the time they are ancient (aged 65+ and I have seen as high as 81). The one time I took a younger ish one (50's), they had a bad back and a frail torso. Their walk speed was so slow they barely made it a third of the way to my base before the raid. The pirates knocked them out, I took out a pirate, they kidnapped the newbie and left. They wanted 1500 silver as ranson, and since I just started (and the pawn sucked) I permanently declined. I can go nearly 3 Quads without a new pawn or a decent one to recruit, leaving me going into the first year with just my original 3.
As feedback on the rest, injuries from combat and infection feel about right now. I have learned to make sure my colonists have decent combat skills in addition to their work skills, which has been helping with the new combat.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on May 16, 2017, 08:37:39 AM
I can go nearly 3 Quads without a new pawn or a decent one to recruit, leaving me going into the first year with just my original 3.
Recruiting also changed. Most of captives come with 99 difficulty. Didnt see numbers better than 96 yet. Even another crashlanded pawns has 80 instead of old ~40-50... Seems like accepting chased pawns is fastest way to increase colony population, but followed raids usually pretty strong. :(
I noticed that I can sort the colonists in the work tab by skill.. Is that new? I'm certain that wasn't a thing in like A15 or thereabouts.. Anyhow, that's awesome, in any case!
Quote from: Rah on May 16, 2017, 04:55:52 AM
- Setting a new default healthcare option for colonists doesn't seem to do anything.
It seems to work for me - NEW pawns arriving later end up with those default settings. it doesn't change existing ones.
(do kinda wish there were multiple settings for the pawns though. I tend to do surgery with glitter, disease management with standard (especially on older pawns), and wound tending with herbal)..and sometimes find a doctor running off with glitter meds to heal a fist-bruise on Sir Peglegsalot.
Quote from: Rah on May 16, 2017, 04:55:52 AM
- And it would be great if you could make deaths have their own sound. Pretty freaky hearing that sound and finding out that it was just a food poisoning or a failed construction job !
Thirded!
QuoteIt seems to work for me - NEW pawns arriving later end up with those default settings. it doesn't change existing ones.
Yeah, it works for new pawns before they arrive, but I think it should act as a reset button to easily switch the healthcare for the entire colony.
- Another small potential bug: When drafting a colonist and pressing B to attack a target outside the gun range, the colonist will just freeze in place.
Quote from: Awe on May 16, 2017, 08:55:17 AM
Recruiting also changed. Most of captives come with 99 difficulty. Didnt see numbers better than 96 yet. Even another crashlanded pawns has 80 instead of old ~40-50... Seems like accepting chased pawns is fastest way to increase colony population, but followed raids usually pretty strong. :(
I had scortch, marine who was only good at combat, haul, and clean at 89%. I also had an escape pod with a luciferm addiction that joined after rescue. Those are fun.
Even in A16 chased by pirates gave me lots of old pawns, but now it is a common recruiting tool.
Normally, I'd write a bit more of a story, but this just wasn't a nice story ending, and I was actually unhappy with it. This one, I had just a long brutal early game struggle, followed by an abrupt and annoying end to all that time spent.
I had a full year under my belt before this struck, difficulty Phoebe Peaceful, Aprimay 3rd of year 2 I set it to Rough; the final event that ended my colony was 14th of Septober year 2. (2 major threats, 3 enemy raids)
On outpost opportunities: The AI have the same problems with mental breaks that I do. One person breaks, everyone starts shooting them. This of course can result in the pirates fleeing from themselves. Which was the case in my game.
I had killed 6 of them at the outpost I was sent to, with my 3 tribals. One of the 'healthy' pirates went berserk after a day or so (one of my tribals was still alive, though immobile) and his buddies shot and killed him, and they fled granting me a victory I didn't deserve. Then, before I could even get a medical team/body team recovery down to the survivor, he died and the map auto-closed because of his death, leaving me with a berserk pet that somehow knew his master had just died resulting in dead colony hares and one of the two tribals I left at the base with a missing foot. I cancelled the caravan trip and sent them back to the colony, only to have back to back breakdowns, one of psychite binging and the other berserking on a timber wolf, which set the timber wolf pack nearby into a frenzy, ending any reasonable attempts at enjoying that particular story.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on May 16, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
Quote from: Awe on May 16, 2017, 08:55:17 AM
Recruiting also changed. Most of captives come with 99 difficulty. Didnt see numbers better than 96 yet. Even another crashlanded pawns has 80 instead of old ~40-50... Seems like accepting chased pawns is fastest way to increase colony population, but followed raids usually pretty strong. :(
I had scortch, marine who was only good at combat, haul, and clean at 89%. I also had an escape pod with a luciferm addiction that joined after rescue. Those are fun.
Even in A16 chased by pirates gave me lots of old pawns, but now it is a common recruiting tool.
I haven't noticed captured pawns having higher recruiting chances. I've seen a fair number of ~86% recruits in A17. Far more than I've had 99%-ers.
However, the recruiting opportunities seem a lot more scarce. I have yet to see a crashed pod in A17 and I've only gotten a couple of chased refugees (playing a mix of Randy Extreme and Cassandra Rough/Intense). Capturing raiders is kind of a crap shoot (pun intended), which is good for that game mechanic but kind of frustrating if that's my only reliable option.
On a slightly different note, I am still having visitors arrive (not just pass by) who don't have a trader with them. Is that WAD or a bug? It only happens maybe 1 out of 3 or 4 visits, but it does happen.
Are there any release notes on the changes in Alpha 17?
Quote from: nickla23 on May 16, 2017, 11:45:25 AM
Are there any release notes on the changes in Alpha 17?
As A17 isn't "released" yet, the answer is technically no.
However, there are several posts by Tynan throughout this thread with build notes, detailing the changes and tweaks implemented with each build.
Official release notes will consolidate all of the changes (while omitting iterative tweaks), and if history is any indication will include a shiny new video where Tynan talks about some of the highlights of the update.
110 days played, 18 major threats, 17 raids - avg of 1 raid every 6.5 days. Cassandra Rough, single colonist start with no items on tropical rainforest biome.
Hacking around with the save file, my raids occurred with 'dates'
290842
349000
897000
1372000
1396189
1512000
2005000
2233000
2629000
2825000
3956000
5194000
5474572
5830000
6037000
6465000
6601000
Given that it appears there are ~60000 ticks per day, the most recent raids were 4.7, 6.00, 3.45, 7.15 and 2.30 days apart which seems pretty frequent to me.
When it comes to regular raids vs raids following a distress call, has anyone else noticed that the distress call raids are like 3 times larger than the regular ones?
QuoteHowever, the recruiting opportunities seem a lot more scarce. I have yet to see a crashed pod in A17 and I've only gotten a couple of chased refugees (playing a mix of Randy Extreme and Cassandra Rough/Intense). Capturing raiders is kind of a crap shoot (pun intended), which is good for that game mechanic but kind of frustrating if that's my only reliable option.
I got 2 or 3 pods in 30 days with Cass Extreme. I think we all have different storyteller experiences, which is how it's supposed to be. I haven't gotten any joining visitors though, but I think that event was reduced iirc.
Quote from: Sunfish on May 16, 2017, 01:19:01 PM
When it comes to regular raids vs raids following a distress call, has anyone else noticed that the distress call raids are like 3 times larger than the regular ones?
Yeah, definately have noticed it. First time I got a distress as tribal, I accepted it as per standard protocol. Big mistake, 3 raiders chasing them, one armed with a chain shotgun, another with a survival rifle, the other with just a club. I managed to take them down with a short range melee desperation charge; but not before learning that the survival rifle can now (or maybe I've just never had it happen) pierce a marble wall, shatter a rib, and still hit the shoulder of the one who dared to hide behind the wall. Needless to say, I decided to really think hard before hitting that accept button. I decided I won't take anyone over 25, unless it is one of my personal favorite pawns.
Did you manage to fix the memory leak when raiding? It was impossible for me to go on a raiding spree in A16. I have yet to have a good enough colony to begin raiding in A17 to test it.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! We're almost there. I'm looking at doing some final adjustments and the team is fixing bugs too.
Please keep it coming!
I've had a few deaths from mental breaks, typically, a mental break resulted in bad things happening - but I'm running into different problems than A16 that are game killing with small groups. I've got a pawn right now, who has a mental break (dazed, because his bad back hurt, he also has fiberous mechanites which isn't helping.) at midnight the 3rd of Jugust, and he remained so for 22 hours; the risk of death from starving is pretty high if his food state wasn't full. By the end of his 22 hour wandering ordeal he was malnutritioned at 70%. If I get any 'lasting' medical problem that affects consciousness, I might end up with a dead pawn.
I'm not really sure how much one pawn should be able to endure physically and mentally before having a breakdown; but for a relatively minor starter issue (bad back), it escalated quickly into a near death experience... on Phoebe Peaceful.
But, maybe pawns should be capable of eating while under a non-violent rampage?
(Edit: He died, I had 20 seconds of time to tell him to go eat before he mentally broke again, this time for starving, which he caused himself.)
Quote from: makkenhoff on May 16, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
I've had a few deaths from mental breaks, typically, a mental break resulted in bad things happening ..
Just to be sure.. Are you trying to arrest these mentally broken pawns ?
That's what i do when someone breaks in less than favorable conditions or i notice that they're going to starve themselves to death. They don't get a catharsis buff, but they live.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I noticed panthers scream with human voices when they get injured sometimes.
On cassandra rough it seems like I get raids in clusters (like none for a while then 2 all of a sudden). I don't think this is necessarily bad, just a difference I noticed.
I often got messages (playing on tropical rainforest) that healroot x0 rotted away in storage. I didn't notice any loss so maybe this is a bug? I had some healroot growing, and some of it was accidentally under a roof. Either way the x0 part of the message made it seem like this was a bug.
I really like the decreased frequency of cargo pods. I also think all the retextures are great!
Also, I don't think I can recover prosthetics from dead colonists. Is this intentional?
Quote from: Tynan on May 15, 2017, 11:07:19 PM
Can anyone else comment on raid frequency?
Any hard data would also be useful. As in, exact recorded raid times. There should be a record of it in the History tab.
Cassandra Rough
205 days passed
30 major threats
18 raids
I also did a few item stash quests, at least two of which had combat, so those type of quests add combat beyond the raids that come in. It's hard for me to say if the stats above are higher or lower than usual, but with more stuff to pay attention to on the world map I would not mind if the raid rate has been reduced. The one thing that is absolutely not fun to deal with in any way is when I end up in combat on two maps. I usually just reload because the micro in those instances is brutally tedious.
Unrelated: Sorry to be a hater on this, but the "quadrum" names are silly. I much preferred the season names. Maybe coming up with new quadrum names rather than splicing months together would sound better.
QuoteI've had a few deaths from mental breaks, typically, a mental break resulted in bad things happening
That's actually something I noticed as well. One pawn fell asleep dazed, which is unusual, after an already long mental break, which caused him to get severely malnourished. I regained control of him a bit later, but he was pretty close to death by then. Was unable to arrest. But other pawns have had normal breaks I think.
New update! This is build 1540.
Thanks for all the feedback on last update! Very useful as usual.
I've adjusted some balance and bugs around raid frequency as well as population gain incident frequency. So I'd love to hear more about how those are working.
I think we're closing in on release; I hope to have a release candidate ASAP.
---------------------
Adjustments to faction naming content.
Fix: Faction leader titles not capitalized in Factions MainTab.
Disallow Wimp trait when spawning pawns of a faction hostile to the player faction
Clarified penoxycyline description.
Typo fixes.
Fix: Threat cycle StorytellerComp sometimes sends no threat during a threat interval.
Renamed 'survival rifle' to the more accurate 'bolt-action rifle'.
Adjusted population intents to give population a bit more easily and earlier.
Population intent from time is now defined on a curve.
Population intent is now evaluated from a curve instead of a custom multi-part lerping function.
Added some debug output for incident chances with population. Adjusted some pop-gain incident chances to be closer to each other.
Undo tweak to water coordinate swapping; think this was a Unity editor bug.
Fix: DamageUntilDowned() can sometimes kill the pawn.
Fix: Rivers can undercut stone roofs so that they no longer have sufficient support.
Fix: IncidentWorker_RefugeePodCrash causes errors when DamageUntilDowned() fails and kills the pawn.
Fix: Some debug code accidentally included.
Add a little extra debug instrumentation to HediffComp_TendDuration.
Fix: Vertically flipped water depth texture.
Caravan pawns will now eat food which is about to rot first.
Fix: Sapper raiders may end up paralyzed when attacking a base with generators against the outer walls.
Fix: Impossible to prioritize eating if the food is already reserved by someone else.
PathFinder Cost_PawnCollision: 100 -> 175
Cleaned up JobGiver_AISapper a bit.
Made sure that a pawn can't start fleeing and manhunting at the same time.
Fix: Tame predators can start fleeing while hunting.
Fix: Tame predators can hunt berserk colonists.
Fix: Pawns avoid spawning on top of items.
Fix: Rotating doors (e.g. when you build an adjacent wall) causes warnings.
Fix: Doors don't block diagonal interactions.
Fix: Ambrosia can spawn in fogged areas.
Fix: Missing tails don't affect SummaryHealthPercent.
Fix: Player sometimes receives inappropriate "is no longer incapable of walking" messages when a pawn is downed from disease.
Translations update.
Creative content update. Added debug output to count and list solid backstories of any category.
Clarified required light level on plants to 51% from 50%.
It's definitely getting there! Thanks for all the hard work! :)
I find the number of quests in the first year a bit frustrating as I know I am no where near ready to take them on. Admittedly 2 of my first games were tribal so I was way behind the curveball there, Lol, but even in my current game (vanilla Crashlanded scenario), 30-some days in I only just got a third gun and have 6 colonists. I've had 3 raids so far, I believe, and the first 2 showed up with just clubs and shivs. The 3rd had an EMP and a survival rifle and a club. So a bit of a jump there! Lol
But I've had, I think 4 or 5 quests in those first 30 days. Not sure if that's high or average, but it's frustrating as I know I'm no where ready to try to tackle them. :/
So maybe fewer quests in the first year?
Thanks!
Been a few hours now and still no sign of the .1540 update? Or is it just me? o.O
Guessing he didn't push the update :P
My mistake, live now.
Loading my previous game in the current version basically deleted all my survival rifles, probably because they got renamed to "bolt-action rifle."
Also, I drafted one of my pawns that previously had a survival rifle and couldn't undraft him or make him equip any other weapons. I didn't experiment too much with this, I closed the game hoping that the next update might fix this.
Put in about 20 hours on A17 so far, and I have to say it looks pretty good! Loving a lot of the new features!
Things I've noticed so far:
-Lots of new events! It's always nice to see a greater variety of things happen between games.
-People seem to be losing limbs a LOT more often than I am use to. Could be just a fluke, as I don't recall seeing any changes to that.
-Caravan events seem to pop up way earlier than I think most players would be interested in doing them. Not the worst thing in the world, but hearing that there is a small cache of gold and uranium doesn't really interest me in the first quadrum.
-Some caravan requests don't seem rewarding enough (~200 rice for ~200 silver?). That said, most aren't quite that bad.
-Chain shotguns are crazy! They seem to share a niche with grenades - very dangerous, but kiteable. They do seem unusually common, and that might have something to do with the frequent limb-removal.
-Mining seems to produce a lot more stone chunks than I remember? This one I'm guessing is a direct result of the skill rebalance, paired with the fact that my designated miner tends to be pretty high level by the time I get things mostly carved out. Its nice for making bricks, but hauling them all out of a mountain base sure feels like a chore.
In any case, the survival rifle change broke my current game, so I'll probably wait until the actual release to start another colony. Super excited to try out caravaning once I can get a sizable colony going!
Lol, whoops. Wimp is 100x more common than usual for testing. I've uploaded a fixed version (and removed some now-obsolete comments).
The new update recognises neither Survival Rifle nor Bolt Action Rifle. :(
Quote from: Tynan on May 16, 2017, 11:41:35 PM
you can update your save file by using a text editor to replace "SurvivalRifle" with "BoltActionRifle" in your save file.
That seems to not be sufficient though, so people might be better off starting over this time. x3
EDIT: Strange, the game bugs out the same way with both SurvivalRifle and BoltActionRifle, but if I change it to any of the other older guns, like SniperRifle, then it works without errors... Yet, in the save files of any new game it clearly uses the name BoltActionRifle. @_@;
Yep, I made a mistake. Okay, I'm uploading a build now that should be save compatible from the previous build, without modification. Sorry about that.
EDIT: It's live.
EDIT: Thanks for comments, but let's please remain on topic. This thread is for feedback on the build and play stories. Bugs go in the bugs forum please.
Here's a story. Colony of 3, executed by near 60 degree heat wave.
Also: the Discharged Soldier story doesn't change to reflect the name I chose.
Quote from: Tynan on May 16, 2017, 11:41:35 PM
Lol, whoops. Wimp is 100x more common than usual for testing. I've uploaded a fixed version (and removed some now-obsolete comments).
On the topic of Wimp can you please make it mutually exclusive with Brawler? They're essentially non-violent at that point as you cannot even use them in that position or you're forced to give them a rifle for the duration of combat and then have them drop it.
Uh, I just got a manhunter pack with Thrumbos. I thought they weren't on the list of animals that could do that in vanilla?
Edit: Also, it's a bit of an insane encounter when it's the second hostile encounter I get on tribal start.
Also, why do scavengers have hauling disabled? Isn't that kinda what they do?
And again: A single mad animal wandered around my base targeting a friendly caravan. No problem, I thought, I have turrets. Which happen to friendly fire more often than not... causing the caravan getting bad will and wasting my base. Bad will due to accidental friendly fire sucks, because there is not much you can do about it. Maybe a mid till end game research option like "IFF Bullets" preventing FF would be an alternative to just disabling the bad will, but the current state is just demotivating.
Ive been playing now for a while and just started a new colony on a nice 'small hills' map with a river running diagonally across the map and a road running vertically and i gotta say I was loving it. That is until 2 days into summer (about 10 days into the game) when a heat wave hit, Making the 78f average summer temp into a brisk 138f knocking down all my pawns before i even realized what was happening it was too late to realize my construction pawn hadnt yet built my cooler. Needless to say it wiped out my 4 colonists. There was nowhere to hide and i had watch them lying on the ground dying just hoping the heat wave would go away Just wanted to tell my story with a17 so far it was on cassandra rough if thats relevant but i think heat wave should be toned down just a bit. I understand its just the way of the rim but if i was a new player that probably wouldve diacouraged me pretty quickly. Then again that heat wave wouldnt have been as fatal if i had focused on building a cooler asap but i didnt think id need to worry about using it to save my colonists lives so soon.
Really minor point; I claimed some ancient lampposts, cause why not. They're in the middle of the map, my settlement on edge. During a raid, as the raiders walking across map from other side, a couple stop and attack the ancient lampposts...
kinda pointless?
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 17, 2017, 02:44:14 AM
Uh, I just got a manhunter pack with Thrumbos. I thought they weren't on the list of animals that could do that in vanilla?
I've seen manhunter rats and racoons so far, neither of which I think was on the list before either. So maybe it has been changed to include all animals? Hah, if any animals are going to be left out though, you'd think it should be thrumbos.
Quote from: AKillerCoconut on May 17, 2017, 07:38:27 AM
Ive been playing now for a while and just started a new colony on a nice 'small hills' map with a river running diagonally across the map and a road running vertically and i gotta say I was loving it. That is until 2 days into summer (about 10 days into the game) when a heat wave hit, Making the 78f average summer temp into a brisk 138f knocking down all my pawns before i even realized what was happening it was too late to realize my construction pawn hadnt yet built my cooler. Needless to say it wiped out my 4 colonists. There was nowhere to hide and i had watch them lying on the ground dying just hoping the heat wave would go away Just wanted to tell my story with a17 so far it was on cassandra rough if thats relevant but i think heat wave should be toned down just a bit. I understand its just the way of the rim but if i was a new player that probably wouldve diacouraged me pretty quickly. Then again that heat wave wouldnt have been as fatal if i had focused on building a cooler asap but i didnt think id need to worry about using it to save my colonists lives so soon.
Yeah, I have to agree that if it were your first time playing, a heat wave doesn't sound nearly as devastating as it is. One tip though: Even if you don't have coolers set up right away, you have the better half of the first heat wave day before the temperature rises to heat-stroke levels, so as long as you react fast enough you should be able to make it through ok.
For the people who have been playing a lot of A17, how much hyperweave are you seeing compared to A16?
Quote from: DropbearNinja on May 17, 2017, 07:41:58 AM
Really minor point; I claimed some ancient lampposts, cause why not. They're in the middle of the map, my settlement on edge. During a raid, as the raiders walking across map from other side, a couple stop and attack the ancient lampposts...
kinda pointless?
I had the same experience in a slightly older build. I marked all the barriers and lamp post for deconstruction (not claimed) and the raiders stopped to destroy them.
- I can research packaged survival meal, but how to make them?
- Turrets automatically fire on mad animals, but ignore hungry predators hunting down my pawns right in front of their noses?
Content wise it's really great, but a lot of QoL improvements are still missing. That's a topic for a suggestion thread, though.
Quote from: Rah on May 17, 2017, 07:52:18 AM
For the people who have been playing a lot of A17, how much hyperweave are you seeing compared to A16?
So far I only got a total of 26 hyperweave out of 3-4 save (one for each build) so it still super rare for me, never really now how together them would love that the quest system can add hyperweave as a reward
Quote from: whitebunny on May 16, 2017, 04:47:32 PM
Quote from: makkenhoff on May 16, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
I've had a few deaths from mental breaks, typically, a mental break resulted in bad things happening ..
Just to be sure.. Are you trying to arrest these mentally broken pawns ?
That's what i do when someone breaks in less than favorable conditions or i notice that they're going to starve themselves to death. They don't get a catharsis buff, but they live.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I don't arrest my pawns, they usually snap berserk when I try. With a single pawn (explorer) or 'vanilla rimworld' 3 pawns; the wandering times cause problems; If I had 10 colonists, one or two wandering around wouldn't be a problem. When you lose 1/3 of your workforce, or all of it, is when it is most noticeable.
*edit* I had another thought for comparison. Malnutrition used to be pretty horrible. In A17 malnutrition seems to be faster moving both directions. It 'starts' faster, but you can also bring colonists out of it a little quicker too. It doesn't linger like it used to. That's basically the kind of tuning I'm thinking it may need. It doesn't need to go away in an hour, but it might need to be toned down a little in a matter of an hour or so.
Additionally, on the note of heat waves - the potential temperature spikes are something we should know about, in my opinion, when picking our starting location. I mean - maybe not "exactly" how much to expect, but if I'm landing in an area with a balmy 80 F year-round growth tropical rainforest, I kind of know to expect up to 100 F.
But I've had one situation where I landing in a mid 70's F summer, and having over 120 F heatwave. I don't think it was a bug - I just wonder if maybe we need a little more information in the ways of expectations of snap cold, and heat waves.
Quote from: Numar on May 17, 2017, 08:50:56 AM
- I can research packaged survival meal, but how to make them?
- Turrets automatically fire on mad animals, but ignore hungry predators hunting down my pawns right in front of their noses?
Content wise it's really great, but a lot of QoL improvements are still missing. That's a topic for a suggestion thread, though.
After you've researched it, you can make them at any cooker, just like you would regular meals.
Yes. If the animals don't have the 'maddened manhunter' trait, turrets will ignore them. Maybe someday in the future we'll get more turret-settings, for now we have to manually clear out the predators.
Quote from: Tekuki on May 17, 2017, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Rah on May 17, 2017, 07:52:18 AM
For the people who have been playing a lot of A17, how much hyperweave are you seeing compared to A16?
So far I only got a total of 26 hyperweave out of 3-4 save (one for each build) so it still super rare for me, never really now how together them would love that the quest system can add hyperweave as a reward
Where did you get the hyperweave from? Resource pods, caravan traders or orbital ships?
I had a maddened manhunted pack of boomrats attack my Muffalo herd in 1539. I've never seen them do that before... It was a bit weird too; my muffs where grazing outside my gates when the pack came. They didn't *hunt* my muffs, but there were so many of each, when they'd bump into each other they'd fight a bit.
Of course, Muffalo are not to be trifled with, and boomrats are flimsy... And chain reactions in a massive exploding boomrats and Muffalo mess get crazy fast.
I apologize in advanced if some of this is not purely feedback,
Difficulty: Extreme
Scenario: Lost Tribe (Though I brought chicken's instead of random pet)
Storyteller: Phoebe
Terrain Type: Desert
I really wanted to see how tough a desert playthrough would be in alpha 17, and overall it was quite tough and I did have to do some scumbag reloads to get through it. However overall it was very fun and alpha 17 is shaping up very nicely.
Early on my chickens and people almost ate me into oblivion, but I think they are quite viable. They do still eat alot of food and are no where near worth it compared to hunting, but in the desert meat is scarce and the chickens did work to provide meat.
I didn't get alot of early settlers joining and at one point had 8 prisoners which really strained my food and one particular prison break was pretty crazy. However we eventually recruited most of them and got to a healthy population.
I had alot of caravan requests early that I could in no way fill, they would ask for specific food types that I could not fulfill in time so I accomplished literally none of them. Maybe if caravan requests were asking for just "food" instead of a specific food it might be more manageable. It seems odd from a story standpoint that a starving city would want a specific food instead of just any ole type.
I had a few stash's of which I did two, and let me tell you was it a fun and rewarding experience. I think bandit outposts and stashes are an amazing addition to Rimworld, you guys really did good with this. I really liked the base designs as well, they were challenging and felt like puzzles to be figured out.
The only thing I feel torn about is trading, at the moment there is a 50% multiplier when selling and 150% when buying, which feels really gimmicky and cheap as the player. I feel ripped off on every deal and I have no option to get a better one. However I really do like the pace of the economy now, it feels difficult and fun. The only idea I have here is to give the trading caravan or faction base its own negotiator to hide some of these numbers behind him and give them a bit of randomness so the player can shop around or take advantage of better prices.
PS: We had to get into the business of making and distributing PCP (flake) in order to make enough money which always leads to fun! :)
All in all, Great job on Alpha 17!
I don't like the change to the plant growth time much. I tend to play on "medium" difficulty areas, like boreal forest, and it basically make them needlessly hard. Before A17, I could have 1batch of food from potatoes before the end of the growing season, while corn was usually almost ready but needed a greenhouse to complete, if I planted as soon as I was in the game. But now it's impossible. Leading to the map being as hard as tundra used to be, or even more, because you have to survive with the plants and animals in the area while you rush the construction of a greenhouse, despite having grow time.
Using rice this time didn't work much faster either.
This is exacerbated by the poor temperature all year long, which make growing slower already.
I feel it's an artificial difficulty increase for a beginning which is already rather difficult, and a not noticeable change for once you have the greenhouse going. Also, it makes the difference between crops even less important. Ironically, the corn I planted at the same time than the potatoes have been collected, while the potatoes haven't (they were outside the greenhouse, and left to die, never been collected).
TL:DR : the change in plant growth time makes the small growing season useless and equal to none for already harsh biomes like boreal forest. It's not enough, and you need a greenhouse from the start anyway.
I dunno that I agree w/ Daguest's comments. It just seems to me that it makes it more important to choose your crop choices based on your biome than previously.
As the growth times were, as I recall, increased by a percentage, then the already fast-growing plants were affected least, and the longer growing plants, like corn, were affected more. Of course, it does lead to the weird circumstance where rice is a good crop for colder climates, when it's usually associated with warmer, moister climates; On the flip side, Korea is f-ing freezing (at least when I was there, during the rice-drying season), and rice is a major staple, so maybe it does make sense.
Anyway, even with A16 values, corn is the least efficient (in terms of nutrition/day, assuming the values on the wiki (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Plants) are current) crop, though obviously this doesn't take into account things like the time spent sowing the fields, which is a factor; But given reasonably quick farmers, potatoes and rice are superior crops, and are even moreso in climates with short growth windows.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 17, 2017, 01:55:11 PM
Anyway, even with A16 values, corn is the least efficient (in terms of nutrition/day, assuming the values on the wiki (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Plants) are current) crop, though obviously this doesn't take into account things like the time spent sowing the fields, which is a factor; But given reasonably quick farmers, potatoes and rice are superior crops, and are even moreso in climates with short growth windows.
Sowing times are in corn's favor, sure, but chances of a blight, cold snap (or heat wave in some biomes), fires, or animal consumption, ALL work against long growth time crops.
Can a blight strike against rice? sure. Does it hurt? sure. But it hurts much much more against such a long growth time crop as corn. I haven't touched corn since A15 solely because of that. Rebalanced growth times means i'm even LESS likely to use anything but rice (rich or normal soil) or potatoes (desperation gravel crops)
I tend to plant corn alongside a rice crop, or immediately following one, if the growing season is long enough; The high yield is nice to get right before winter, and it's nice to basically fire-and-forget on the crops. This tactic is largely unchanged from A16 to A17. I just refreshed myself, during the course of writing my last post, on the benefits of potatoes (I literally never paid attention before) so I'll probably work that into my rotation next time I can't find at least normal soil for my farms, but otherwise, rice and corn on the nearest fertile soil patch, will continue to be my main farming tactics.
Quote from: Rah on May 17, 2017, 09:32:15 AM
Quote from: Tekuki on May 17, 2017, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Rah on May 17, 2017, 07:52:18 AM
For the people who have been playing a lot of A17, how much hyperweave are you seeing compared to A16?
So far I only got a total of 26 hyperweave out of 3-4 save (one for each build) so it still super rare for me, never really now how together them would love that the quest system can add hyperweave as a reward
Where did you get the hyperweave from? Resource pods, caravan traders or orbital ships?
i was playing randy random and he randomly gave me 9 hyperweave from the sky
Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 17, 2017, 01:55:11 PM
I dunno that I agree w/ Daguest's comments. It just seems to me that it makes it more important to choose your crop choices based on your biome than previously.
As the growth times were, as I recall, increased by a percentage, then the already fast-growing plants were affected least, and the longer growing plants, like corn, were affected more. Of course, it does lead to the weird circumstance where rice is a good crop for colder climates, when it's usually associated with warmer, moister climates; On the flip side, Korea is f-ing freezing (at least when I was there, during the rice-drying season), and rice is a major staple, so maybe it does make sense.
Anyway, even with A16 values, corn is the least efficient (in terms of nutrition/day, assuming the values on the wiki (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Plants) are current) crop, though obviously this doesn't take into account things like the time spent sowing the fields, which is a factor; But given reasonably quick farmers, potatoes and rice are superior crops, and are even moreso in climates with short growth windows.
It makes the growing season in "harsh" biome irrelevant, because you can't grow anything in this period, and they will die afterwards.
I planted potatoes and corn. Potatoes were barely at 30-40% when cold happened. It made planting without greenhouse irrelevant entirely on non temperate biomes.
I am sorry I am at work and am not able to read through the entire thread or read all replies to see if this is being worked on but I believe the loss of limbs needs to be toned down a bit in A17. I am playing on Cassandra Rough and it seems like if a pawn takes a couple of shots from almost any guy there's almost a guarantee of a loss of a limb. I survived a decent size raid yesterday on my new colony only to have 5 of my pawns lose a limb, it's definitely more common for a pawn to lose limbs in A17 compared to A16.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I'm still integrating it, as you can see from the below changelog for the build I just pushed, version 1541.
More play feedback and play stories are desired!
-----
Some solid backstories are no longer marked for tribal since they don't make sense as tribals.
Quest incidents, which players can't reasonably do with just a few pawns, are less likely to impossible at low player population.
Reduced heat wave power a bit and clarified the call to action in the letter.
Cleaned up some duplicate xml for meals.
Manhunter pack incidents now never use thrumbos or insects. Single manhunters won't spawn with too few points (e.g. no more day 7 elephant attacks).
Chain shotgun generatecommonality -> 0.3
Wimp is now mutually exclusive with Brawler.
Fix: Discharged Soldier backstory doesn't adjust with name.
Clarify name of bill to cook packaged survival meal.
DefaultWaitInsteadOfEscapingTicks: 5h -> 10h
Fix: Most jobs which use CheckForGetOpportunityDuplicate() should allow taking things from a valid storage.
Fix: Pawns can sometimes wander in forbidden areas.
Stop caravans if all owning pawns are going through a mental break.
Move reserved-for-prisoners display code.
Fix: Graphical issues with transport pods built adjacent to other structures.
Add (reserved for prisoners) label in the float menu when appropriate.
Fix: Allowed areas sometimes affect paths even when the pawn doesn't care about allowed areas.
Fix: Party mood bonus is applied only at the party's end.
Fix: Penoxycyline affects immunity even if the pawn is already sick.
Fix: Wardens can sometimes cause 10jobs/10ticks errors while delivering food to prisoners.
Fix: PathFinder doesn't handle narrow allowed region tunnels very well.
Fix: Roads on the world map occasionally fall into the sea.
Quote from: Tynan on May 17, 2017, 04:45:31 PM
Fix: Penoxycyline affects immunity even if the pawn is already sick.
Does that mean a pawn doesnt get an immunity boost anymore if he takes penoxy after the sickness is revealed? This could seriously hurt tribal scenarios, since it takes so long to get an economy going, especially on cold maps. Unfortunately I dont have much time at the moment to play/test this, would be cool if other people could report their experiences.
Is it just my bad luck, or are the rates of ships\traders that carry bionic limbs a lot lower than normal in A17? Not one has had more than one, so far, and I haven't even seen an arm yet.
Quote from: Tynan on May 17, 2017, 04:45:31 PM
Wimp is now mutually exclusive with Brawler.
Thank you a ton! Really appreciate this!
okay is it me or are there more people with luciferiuim addictions. i got one from a escape pod and then another through a chase. Am i just unlucky? Im playing on casandra, some challange. I usally play randy random on rough though.
I noticed during a thunderstorm that the lighting flash powers up solar generators. I didn't get a chance to see if it actually generated electricity. I don't recall that before.
Quote from: Neotic on May 17, 2017, 10:35:49 PM
okay is it me or are there more people with luciferiuim addictions. i got one from a escape pod and then another through a chase. Am i just unlucky? Im playing on casandra, some challange. I usally play randy random on rough though.
I have yet to see any in A17, so it might just be you. Or it might just be me, its hard to say when it comes to anecdotal evidence.
On an unrelated note, I'm loving how much of this feedback is getting taken into account!
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on May 17, 2017, 08:42:15 AM
Quote from: DropbearNinja on May 17, 2017, 07:41:58 AM
Really minor point; I claimed some ancient lampposts, cause why not. They're in the middle of the map, my settlement on edge. During a raid, as the raiders walking across map from other side, a couple stop and attack the ancient lampposts...
kinda pointless?
I had the same experience in a slightly older build. I marked all the barriers and lamp post for deconstruction (not claimed) and the raiders stopped to destroy them.
This seems exploitable.
I feel like claiming should be automatic when your base starts touching the relevant structures rather than having to select each tile individually and press a button, but that's a feature request for another version.
Quote from: YokoZar on May 18, 2017, 12:48:04 AM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on May 17, 2017, 08:42:15 AM
Quote from: DropbearNinja on May 17, 2017, 07:41:58 AM
Really minor point; I claimed some ancient lampposts, cause why not. They're in the middle of the map, my settlement on edge. During a raid, as the raiders walking across map from other side, a couple stop and attack the ancient lampposts...
kinda pointless?
I had the same experience in a slightly older build. I marked all the barriers and lamp post for deconstruction (not claimed) and the raiders stopped to destroy them.
This seems exploitable.
I feel like claiming should be automatic when your base starts touching the relevant structures rather than having to select each tile individually and press a button, but that's a feature request for another version.
There's actually a tool that you can drag around unclaimed structures to claim them
So in the latest build 4 of my guys get sleeping sickness at once and I have to micro for several game weeks to keep them alive; probably the least fun I've had in Rimworld to date. Then barely a few days later 3 guys get the plague (2 of which were still recovering from sleeping sickness). I micro'd the hell out of those plus administered penoxycycline but in the end had to cheat-edit the save file to keep them alive. Did this patch make disease much more common or did I just get really unlucky?
Also what does "Fix: Penoxycyline affects immunity even if the pawn is already sick." mean? It will no longer give an immunity boost to infected pawns? If so I really don't like this change; disease is lame enough already without making it even harder.
Anyone else notice what seems to be a rather significant change to the quality of crafting curve with level? I've had my lvl 20 constructor make 40 beds and he got 0 masterwork+. I had my lvl 18 crafter (20 by end) make 10 plasteel longswords. Best he got was superior.
Quote from: wyoian on May 18, 2017, 01:53:48 AM
Anyone else notice what seems to be a rather significant change to the quality of crafting curve with level? I've had my lvl 20 constructor make 40 beds and he got 0 masterwork+. I had my lvl 18 crafter (20 by end) make 10 plasteel longswords. Best he got was superior.
Just unluck. Have 3/14 masterwork beds also got a legendary marble billiard at first try.
Why are you hating crafters so much?
From a16 to a17 changed next:
Making joints - no crafting XP
Making drugs - crafting job who gave Intellectual XP, but no crafting XP
Stonecutting - crafting job who gave Construction XP, but no crafting XP
How do I must to level up Crafting in cheap way in such conditions?
Making hundreds of shoddy t-shirts, and wooden swords is wasted resources and time
Quote from: alexdgreat on May 18, 2017, 06:59:47 AM
Why are you hating crafters so much?
From a16 to a17 changed next:
Making joints - no crafting XP
Making drugs - crafting job who gave Intellectual XP, but no crafting XP
Stonecutting - crafting job who gave Construction XP, but no crafting XP
How do I must to level up Crafting in cheap way in such conditions?
Making hundreds of shoddy t-shirts, and wooden swords is wasted resources and time
Yeah, I noticed that, too. And while my crafters still suck, my researcher was on LVL 20 in no time... So maybe the levelling by crafting cheap stuff may be reduced if it was imbalanced before, but disabling it completely? The main good thing, though, is that you can now use your average lvl 0 crafter for making stone blocks all day long, if it is not skill related any longer. But making medicine is skill capped (and this skill automatically degrades if not used as far as I remember), so at least here there should also be some gain making it.
Edit: But please do not lower researching skill gain... There should at least be enough research projects left to benefit from a highly levelled scientist.
QuoteReduced heat wave power a bit and clarified the call to action in the letter.
Oh no. I really liked the challenge with the heatwaves. I don't think it's that hard to be prepared considering you can research passive cooling really easy from the beginning.
Quote from: fjw on May 18, 2017, 10:27:51 AM
QuoteReduced heat wave power a bit and clarified the call to action in the letter.
Oh no. I really liked the challenge with the heatwaves. I don't think it's that hard to be prepared considering you can research passive cooling really easy from the beginning.
Some of us play Tribal starts...
hmm.
i seldomly play tribal starts. but isn't passive cooling a tribal tech?
Started a new colony on build 1541, in a (Large size) Tropical biome using Randy Extreme. Arrived in Spring, with temperatures between 25 and 32 celsius (77-90 fahrenheit)
-Issue: no wild healroot anywhere on map.
I was kind of surprised by this, as I saw plenty of wild healroot growing in much colder biomes, in the past few builds.
Edit: created a colony in Boreal biome (also in build 1541), and saw plenty of healroot. I read the description of it, and it says that it's "prized by tribespeople in colder climates". Does this mean that it won't grow, by design, in hotter biomes? That would make tropical biome very difficult unless you bring a very skilled herbalist every time, due to the way infections work now.
@ All - Thank you all for the continued feedback, which Tynan is finding invaluable. Please keep it coming.
I have had to move several posts to another thread (re: the posts relating to the best way to improve crafting skill). Those posts have been merged with an existing thread on the same topic, and can be found here. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32487.msg332799#msg332799
And a reminder from the man himself to those who are now and again prone to helping the thread drift off-topic.
Quote from: Tynan on May 17, 2017, 12:39:07 AMEDIT: Thanks for comments, but let's please remain on topic. This thread is for feedback on the build and play stories.
Quote from: ttgg on May 18, 2017, 10:44:26 AM
Started a new colony on build 1541, in a (Large size) Tropical biome using Randy Extreme. Arrived in Spring, with temperatures between 25 and 32 celsius (77-90 fahrenheit)
-Issue: no wild healroot anywhere on map.
I was kind of surprised by this, as I saw plenty of wild healroot growing in much colder biomes, in the past few builds.
Edit: created a colony in Boreal biome (also in build 1541), and saw plenty of healroot. I read the description of it, and it says that it's "prized by tribespeople in colder climates". Does this mean that it won't grow, by design, in hotter biomes? That would make tropical biome very difficult unless you bring a very skilled herbalist every time, due to the way infections work now.
Maybe it just doesn't grow wild in that climate? You can still grow your own correct?
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on May 18, 2017, 11:32:40 AM
Maybe it just doesn't grow wild in that climate? You can still grow your own correct?
I can still grow the non-wild variant, however, I would have expected the wild healroot to also grow in the Tropical biome. Temperature seems to have nothing to do with it.
I'm just looking for confirmation, if it's a bug or if it's intended to not grow in Tropical biome.
set up several tribal colonies on randy intense/extreme, really fun now. few thoughts i had, hope you find them helpful
- pemmican lasts only 2 days, detecting bushes in the environment became one of the main activities now and it hurts the eyes for a poor 35 year old like me.
- i can always get to electricity before first winter, since i can I do it, but it kinda takes away from the fun of having a first hard tribal winter
- enemy weapons become advanced way too quickly, and i feel like i have to cheat the game to win rather than have a healthy battle. poison ship in first year is just ridic for tribal and i have to use a "closing wall" trick i just happen to know cause i saw a discussion.
- on that note its entirely unclear how to defend yourself
- colonist recruitment is always at 99% difficulty in my games, not sure if im just getting unlucky
- I dont like microing hunting and it just takes forever now with the running mechanism, its a bit silly.
- most of my time is spent microing food, making pemmican for winter and simple meals for the present. its fun but i'm not really expanding as fast as I'd like, sending out caravans or trying to take over adjacent areas (which would be fun)
It does feel like hunting is unreasonably hard/time consuming.
If i hit an animal with a bullet or arrow, yes, it should probably run if it can, so the behavior is fine...but how many bullets/arrows should it take really, to take down an animal when you can line up a shot against a grazing or wandering animal (as opposed to in active combat, where panic and haste become serious factors)?
There is already a 750% hit bonus on downed animals for "execution" in hunting. I feel like there should be a damage bonus and/or hit bonus against animals intrinsic to the hunting job - this keeps animals (as) viable (as they already were) for active combat, while making it less likely that my pawn will have to chase a deer across the map twice over the course of an entire day while firing dozens of rounds at it.
Quote from: Limdood on May 18, 2017, 12:30:20 PM
It does feel like hunting is unreasonably hard/time consuming.
If i hit an animal with a bullet or arrow, yes, it should probably run if it can, so the behavior is fine...but how many bullets/arrows should it take really, to take down an animal when you can line up a shot against a grazing or wandering animal (as opposed to in active combat, where panic and haste become serious factors)?
I have to agree. With 10+ colonists, even with 2 full-time hunters, the hunting takes too long to satisfy the need for meat, because my hunters end up chasing their prey all day.
I think it's the combination of
-Bad accuracy in general. It seems counter-intuitive to hunt with an Uzi over a Sniper Rifle, but the Uzi is better, for hunting, in the current system by far.
-Bigger animals (those with decent amount of meat on their bones) taking many shots before they are downed
-The newly added chasing after every prey.
Quote from: Limdood on May 18, 2017, 12:30:20 PM
I feel like there should be a damage bonus and/or hit bonus against animals intrinsic to the hunting job - this keeps animals (as) viable (as they already were) for active combat, while making it less likely that my pawn will have to chase a deer across the map twice over the course of an entire day while firing dozens of rounds at it.
I agree. A higher chance to hit animals who are idle seems like a decent fix, and would make slower, single-shot rifles a lot more viable. I've noticed that predators also stun their animals when they first pounce on them. Perhaps our hunters could have a chance to stun and/or at least slow their target, on their first shot, and then only have to give chase if the prey isn't dead after a few seconds.
Medical - A17 really makes doctors feel worth having. I just saved a pawn who was frail, elderly, and suffers dementia; he was around 30% more infected than immune at the time the doctor started to treat him with a superior steel bed, 80% and higher successful treatments, with 2% to spare. I kept him in a medically induced coma (constantly putting him on anesthetic, his dementia was a medical risk otherwise.) It may have cost me a significant amount of medicine, but if I had failed any of the treatments, he would have died - so it felt balanced to me. Proof a good doctor is worth having now.
On the hunting complaints - any hunter can and will tell you, even if you line up a shot perfect on a grazing deer with no obstructions in the way, sometimes you miss. I've actually found it to be pretty refreshing to feel like an actual hunt, as opposed to the collection it had been. I've had plenty of success hunting with my pila on my tribal colony.
Reading Limdood's remarks on hunting reminds me of a weird interaction a few unstable builds back, that I never really noticed before. I was manually hunting a bear with my gunners, and had my melee dude in front to draw the bear's aggro; They downed the bear, and I thought "Hey, melee dude's here, I'll let him finish off the bear, esp. since it's getting dark and my gunner's can't hit shit anymore.", and as I watched, he methodically chopped off pieces of the bear until it was dead, leaving significantly less meat behind; Maybe 1/4-1/3rd of the total meat value. I tested this by having my gunners finish off a couple deer after that, and there was no reduction in meat whatsoever.
While I'm sure manually using melee to finish off an animal isn't a super common tactic, it doesn't seem right that it should so drastically affect meat intake if you do that.
Regarding ttgg's remarks:
Quote from: ttgg on May 18, 2017, 12:45:39 PM
With 10+ colonists, even with 2 full-time hunters, the hunting takes too long to satisfy the need for meat, because my hunters end up chasing their prey all day.
I think it's the combination of
-Bad accuracy in general. It seems counter-intuitive to hunt with an Uzi over a Sniper Rifle, but the Uzi is better, for hunting, in the current system by far.
-Bigger animals (those with decent amount of meat on their bones) taking many shots before they are downed
-The newly added chasing after every prey.
I haven't had a lot of trouble with this, for a simple reason: I often micro my hunters into closer proximity with non-dangerous prey. Closer range does two important things:
- Better accuracy. Duh.
- More tolerance for the animal running away; They don't waste as much, or any, time closing range on the animal again.
So it seems like an adjustment to engagement range, based perhaps on the riskiness of the hunted animal taking revenge, would make hunting a lot less frustrating and needlessly time-consuming.
Rich explorer scenario, build 1541, cassandra extreme, 70 days in: http://imgur.com/a/VUrgB
*quests:
-item stash without threat, people can no longer say it doesn't worth it ;-)
-item stash with threat: i don't know what the threat is, but it seems to worth it: charged rifle/sniper rifle/bolt action rifle. My best smith is level 3...
-outposts: i'm still short on manpower, but i'm hoping to raid my first outpost in the second year, pods should help.
*population: it feels easier than in the latest build but i can really tell since i played crashlanded scenarios, anyway, after one year starting as rich explorer, you've catched up with a crashlanded start + 30 glitt meds :)
*raids: paired events are a real threat if you mismanaged the first one, frequency seems back to "normal"
*visitors and traders are the ultimate defense against raiders, you can even patch them up after the fight, best friendlies ever (or maybe they should flee when you get raided?)
*economy: on desert, limited population and growing period, 1 year in i only grew food and couldn't really afford any other luxury, which made quests more interesting. you can focus on building your manpower and doing quests for money, at least it'll be the aim of the second year. so far my cash is made of the 2000 silver i started with... + lately the item stash quest
*infections: i don't think it has changed but it seems fine, with a healthy, good doctor you don't need medicine BUT your bedridden pawn risk to go berserk/mental break, so there is still an incentive to use meds to speed up the healing, this is even more true between two raids. And things can go downward quickly if your doc is killed/ injured, if the patients have their blood filtration affected etc... it should be interesting on the long term and on the road. Still, maybe medicine should have more weight to fight an infection.
I'm having a great time with A17 so far.
The Good:
Love the new textures
Find the combat changes to be rewarding
Mining definitely feels like less of a time waste and more of a focus
Haven't tried them yet, but the new belts definitely add a different playstyle that I plan on chasing
I like that I'm seeing infections again, although I do feel they are a little easy to combat.
I love the quests and roads, makes the world definitely feel more interconnected and motivates me to explore more.
Love, love, love self tending.
Good overall: Game feels more challenging, looks better, and feels more rewarding.
The 'Eh':
I'm finding my autosaves are lagging my game for a lot longer then in previous versions which is really disappointing.
My pawns now prioritize deconstructing objects a higher priority over smoothing floors despite the fact that building floors comes before deconstructing.
I'm seeing a lot less traders, it's hard to say if that is just luck or not... but past few games there have been very few passing through or visiting.
No exp for crafters while crafting stone = sad. Seems extra hard to level now.
I think that's it for now. Thanks so much for the updates! Can't wait til its official. :)
Quote from: AstroFerret on May 18, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
I like that I'm seeing infections again, although I do feel they are a little easy to combat.
Infections ARE easy to combat for any young person with access to modern medicine, unless they're internal infections, and even then if you have access to antibiotics most of those should be easy to take care of.
The most susceptible to them are the elderly, which is accurately reflected in-game.
Population: I am not fan of big groups and i keep my colony at 9 pawns usually.
Cassandra Rough seems to be more balanced. Raids are much more frequent, but less powerfull.
Combat:
I raided two outposts and it looks like They are far too easy to be satysfing. My squad of 6 take out defenders without any serious wound. Two guys was sniping out them as long, as They start charging into me. Then They run near the prepared mele guys in front line, near the guys with assault rifles. I got two more rifles and A LOT of silver, then some fancy shields.
Sapers are smarter, They do not atack one wall piece, but damaging my walls in many places, so i can not set my people to defend one place.
MECHANIOIDS are disaster. They wiped out 6/11 of my colonists. Do They ignore now my adventage from being in darkness?
Ambushes:
Caravans and nomad scenarios seems to be a lot easier, what is good. Now i really see point in trading things and being abushed not meaning being ripped apart anymore.
Medicine:
No more severed limbs by field surgeries. It looks like surgery can not longer be so fatal when your doctor have 6 or more skill, what is nice. From the other hand, even my 1lvl doctor was using herbal medicine he managed to save young (18 years) girl, but her 78 years mother died.
Default medicine is great addition. Can i choose food for my prisoners too?!
Puting my colonists into sleep is great way to fight of addictions.
Trading:
Ships are much more frequent or i am luckly?
Caravans from the other fractions seem to come more frequently. Meybe it's related to me, being on the road?
Caravans from me are safer, so i send my traders far more often. It's not so risky and generate far more profit.
Prisoners:
When i see prisoner on 99% resistance i tend them and then release. In A16 i rarely saw released guys, now They are coming back with every next raid. When i harvest They organs, They are coming without them... When i drug them enough to put them into addiction, They are bringing me drugs every time, when They are coming back. Lucy farming was never so easy.
Animals:
They are often dying because of weather. During winter every turtle and most of the birds are dying. There was no cold snap, They just does not leave my map during the winter.
After heat wave, every wild animal died. That made me sad, even when my freezer was full of food which i exchanged later for weapons and armors. Animals should be able to survival natural conditions.
Animals seems to ignore fire. I like to block raiders way by throwing some molotovs in strategic places. I understand the tribals who run though fire, but rat which was just moving without reason by fire... The same happend with turkey, which want cook himself for my pawns in front of my defense lines.
I love the stories made by game. Once siegers decided to attack me when They shoot all the mortals and They managed to harm my crops and two chickens. When They was going to run into my defenses, dry thunderstorm started. First tunderbold hit into my smokeleaf, second in front of the turret (where roses was and fire starts). The third and forth one hit my guys. What suprised me more, the power armor clad meele fighter was unconscious instantly, but sniper was just burned a little and ran. Meybe first guy was hit directly, other indirectly, i am not sure, but many hits after put him into far-too-close-to-death condition.
In A16 poison ships seems to land OUTSIDE my bases. In A17 it land directly on my fields...
And i didn't saw pod landing pirates.
Quote from: roben on May 18, 2017, 07:11:36 AM
Quote from: alexdgreat on May 18, 2017, 06:59:47 AM
Why are you hating crafters so much?
From a16 to a17 changed next:
Making joints - no crafting XP
Making drugs - crafting job who gave Intellectual XP, but no crafting XP
Stonecutting - crafting job who gave Construction XP, but no crafting XP
How do I must to level up Crafting in cheap way in such conditions?
Making hundreds of shoddy t-shirts, and wooden swords is wasted resources and time
Yeah, I noticed that, too. And while my crafters still suck, my researcher was on LVL 20 in no time... So maybe the levelling by crafting cheap stuff may be reduced if it was imbalanced before, but disabling it completely? The main good thing, though, is that you can now use your average lvl 0 crafter for making stone blocks all day long, if it is not skill related any longer. But making medicine is skill capped (and this skill automatically degrades if not used as far as I remember), so at least here there should also be some gain making it.
Edit: But please do not lower researching skill gain... There should at least be enough research projects left to benefit from a highly levelled scientist.
I agree, though I think the biggest problem is that these jobs of variable skills are all lumped together under the same job category, meaning that the ideal crafter have to be good at two-three skills to actually not be wasting time and resources when doing one of the jobs they aren't as competent in.
Ideally the drug production should be put into its own chemistry job, and stonecutting into a masonry job - crafting could probably be merged with smithing at that point (not much left of it then I believe), except maybe tribalwear which is more of a tailoring thing. I know Tynan hates to add job categories though, but it would definitively made things a bit more intuitive in this case. A way to toggle sub-jobs would work too (bringing back that dedicated repair pawn in the process!), but I'm pretty sure that's too much work to make it into A17, if ever.
This thread is for feedback on the build please - open-ended suggestions and discussion thereof should be in the Suggestions forum. I've removed some off topic posts.
Don't know if this has been reported, but when I am zoomed in very close I start to see black lines pop in and out of the background like its scanning certain cells.
Its been like that for the last 3-4 builds I would guess.
The appearance and movement reminds me of the old Windows defrag progress graphic, if that helps with visualization.
Okay, so 1 in-game year on Cassandra Rough, Boreal Forest, Crashlanded start. (Build 1541.) Some statistics: After a year wealth was at 30309 (total), 7 major threats, 7 raids, of those raids there were 2 "wander first", 3 "immediate attack", 1 "especially clever" and 1 sapper. At the end of the year, zero deaths and 7 colonists total. Of those colonists, there are two relationships that began in the colony, one of which has escalated to a full-on marriage, and the other of which has a marriage on the horizon. 2 caravans arrived as well as 2 visitors with things to trade. Of the caravans, one was a slaver and one a bulk goods trader. Also,
For quests I was offered 2 stashes, 2 caravan requests (I don't recall the first but I was in no position to cover it; it might have been something like 1200 cloth? The second was something like 227 smokeleaf.) About 1/2 of the quests were offered between late fall and very early spring, where the weather makes travel times so slow to make them virtually impossible.
Of those four extra colonists, one was a fleeing refugee, one was a rescued escape podee who voluntarily joined, one was a Stockholm-syndromed raider, and one was a wanderer. I took the fleeing refugee very early in the game, and she ended up being chased by just a single raider with a shiv, so she was easy to get. I had a second opportunity, but turned it down because I was recovering from a raid at the time. (I'm not sure if the raid from the fleeing refugee counted towards my total of 7 or not, to be honest.)
The overall progression of the year has seemed to me more difficult than past alphas, but in a way that fits well with the story. For instance, although I got some power up for a freezer and an electric stove fairly early, I never really had the luxury of developing my power grid, because more survival-first issues got in the way. I currently have 2 turrets hooked to one fueled generator, and two solar generators + 2 batteries hooked to a cooler, electric stove, and within the last monthuary, I also got up a machining table, comms console, and orbital trade beacon. Everything else has been analog. This means I've been heating my base with campfires all winter. I started growing rice right away, plus did a fair bit of hunting, but never was able to build up a good supply of food for the winter. We didn't starve, but came close — we had to go around killing all the wargs, foxes, and timberwolves on the map in order to make it through the winter. (And we also ended up trading a fair bit of our silver and some components we mined out of the ground for some raw meat that the bulk trader had brought along.) So it really did seem like a kind of near-thing survival. We did have a good supply of bodies thrown in a room, and given it was a boreal winter, we could have gone into the cannibal business if we had to, but we just barely scraped by without resorting to that. There were a few minor breaks, but it didn't seem like morale was constantly on a knife's edge, so I suspect we would have pulled through it with a bit of stress.
I found I had to be pro-active with the raids — for the wanders or the sappers, I had to get my guys with bolt-actions out in front sniping at them to whittle them down enough that I could take the rest of them on when they got to my defenses. I ended up building a kind of two-part killzone — like a big box of pillars to stand inside and shoot out of, and then when the raiders got closer, fall back behind a second layer of pillars. I was able to survive all the raids, but not easily; definitely some of my little guys lost digits (or, in one case, an ear) and a few times some of them were close to death when I rescued them.
I had one pet die to infection, and another infection that didn't kill anyone. But I also was basically out of medicine by the end of the first year (both herbal and regular). I used a little 2x1 hospital with sterile tiles for treating, and had two doctors (by the end) both at skill level 8. I haven't yet figured out the best way to balance and ration medicine use; I tend to over-use the good stuff to avoid infections, rather than holding back and just bringing it out when infection sets in. Live and learn, I guess.
I had no problem with the animals leaving when winter set in; the first of winter, everything that wasn't some sort of wild canine made a beeline for the edge of the map. I did find the warg/timberwolf attacks all winter long a bit frustrating, in part just because I had no real way to try to anticipate them. I'd have a colonist wandering out grabbing something that came in a drop pod, and all of the sudden he's getting attacked by a timberwolf. It's not clear how to best plan in advance for that sort of thing, when you have them roaming near a 'set-and-forget' job and they fade into the wilderness.
I took one of the quests, which was a stash. It was a 5-day journey, and I hadn't realized the way that food spoils in caravans now. I took 2 colonists, a little bit of herbal meds, and about 10 days worth of food. On the way over we were ambushed; my two guys took out the one pirate, but not after one of mine got shived. So a quick bit of tending and we were on our way again. There were no enemies at the stash itself. However, about one tile away from home my two guys collapsed with malnutrition (extreme). I made a second caravan with food and sent it out to rescue the first, and so everyone got home happily. But it looks like there's about zero point in caravans or quests until you have researched survival meals, unless the quest just happens to be extremely close or over very fast-traveling ground. I guess it would be nice if there was a way to create a little mini-map and do a bit of hunting and cooking. Or maybe I should have done that during my 12 hours (or however long it was) at the site before heading back home? Yeah, that's probably what I should have done.
All in all, I did feel like the pressure had been ramped up a bit; every raid was a "how am I going to deal with this one," rather than an "Oh, here we go again, let's turn on the turrets". And it felt like it was much slower-going gathering the basic resources — steel and raw food, and medicine. As a result, it felt like I really needed to use *all* the resources at my disposal — harvesting wild-growing things, using campfires to keep warm because I hadn't the resources to get space heaters all put in yet, and so on — and I really like this about this build!
Totally off topic: Welcome to the forums, Strongndarm. Love your Rimworld Science series!
Also, Randy seems to be rather hostile, even at lower difficulties in this version. To the point that it was impossible to win. Might have something to do with my large fields of cokeleaves, but it still seemed a bit over the top with 2x2 raids with barely any time at all in between.
Oh, and a small annoyance: Pets are automatically set to follow whoever trains them in combat. This makes very little sense if they haven't been trained to attack. I rarely ever use my pets for combat, so naturally I don't train them for it. Still they default to follow their handler both in and out of combat as soon as they start training.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 18, 2017, 07:11:56 PM
Totally off topic: Welcome to the forums, Strongndarm. Love your Rimworld Science series!
Hey, thanks man! I really appreciate that. (Okay, I'll be good now and get myself back on topic.)
Thanks for the detailed feedback Bjorn!
You talked about needing survival meals to send a caravan. Would pemmican have worked? If not, why not?
Quote from: makkenhoff on May 18, 2017, 12:59:34 PM
On the hunting complaints - any hunter can and will tell you, even if you line up a shot perfect on a grazing deer with no obstructions in the way, sometimes you miss. I've actually found it to be pretty refreshing to feel like an actual hunt, as opposed to the collection it had been. I've had plenty of success hunting with my pila on my tribal colony.
Yeah, but you shouldn't be pulling the trigger if you only have a <10% chance of hitting, which is what my hunters do
every shot. They always stay at extreme range, which gives them abyssmal accuracy. Ok, maybe they aren't the most skilled shots in the galaxy, but that means they should get closer so they have a decent chance of hitting. Not stay at their weapon's maximum range and spend all day missing, or occaisionally wounding the animal so it suffers needlessly (Ok, so suffering isn't really a consideration in the game like it is in real life, but the wasted time sure is).
I think they stay at extreme range for safety, in case the prey turns manhunter, which isn't a factor for most prey in Real Life
TM. Which brings up the issue of having hunters able to carry melee weapons, but there's already a different thread for that, so I'll stop here. ;)
I'd like some sort of control over how far away my hunters will shoot from. Maybe be able to set the minimum hit % they will be willing to take a shot at. So if I set it to 30%, they'll move closer until they can get that good of a shot.
Quote from: Tynan on May 18, 2017, 07:43:05 PM
You talked about needing survival meals to send a caravan. Would pemmican have worked? If not, why not?
Oh, good point. I had forgotten about pemmican when I said that. I hadn't researched pemmican yet, either, as I tend to have a blind spot about it, but that could have gotten me quest-ready more quickly.
Glancing at the stats it looks like pemmican would be better overall, since it's 10 work and .25/.25 nutrition ingredients for .8 nutrition output, vs. 24 work and .5/.5 for a .9 nutrition output. (Unless my math is bad, which is pretty likely.) Looks like I'll be rushing that next time I want to go adventuring.
Actually, it looks like the stats don't always agree. The info screen for pemmican on the ground says "12" for work-to-make, but in the details screen for the bill, it says "10".
A couple thoughts.
1) Contrary to other opinions, infections seem okay. They are more common but it feels like they are less deadly as long as you stay on top of them 24/7. The issue I seem to have is still running out of medicine. Especially in cold climates. A single raid can eat up a 30 stack of medicine if enough people are injured/infected. Growing healroot works, of course, but having a farm for healroot is tough early on especially with the increased growing times.
Perhaps a solution to this could be making caravans/traders carry more medicine for sale. If nearly every trader brought a 10 stack of medicine you would have the opportunity to stockpile in the peaceful times without giving the player anything for free. You'd still have to trade for everything you get.
2) Sieges. If your first major event is a siege you are in huge trouble. Long range weapons are the solution, obviously, but if you don't have 2-3 rifles by the time of the first siege you can easily get wiped by this event. Especially if you lack a careful shooter.
For instance, I'm not sure if SMG range was changed, but when sallying out my only careful shooter rifleman was getting annihilated at range by a single SMG guy from the siege. I have no idea what I would do to change this, but I do know that I am scared of SMGs/M16's now more than ever, even at long range.
3) In my second playthrough in the jungle I was tempted to use molotovs to burn down the forest in front of my sandbags so enemies can't use trees to hide. The rain feels like it kicks in so fast now that even the first trees I burn get extinguished before I clear anything. I know this is a lag reducing feature but I still feel like the rain comes way too early.
I am on another playthrough right now and will post back with new thoughts.
Quote from: Tynan on May 18, 2017, 07:43:05 PM
Thanks for the detailed feedback Bjorn!
You talked about needing survival meals to send a caravan. Would pemmican have worked? If not, why not?
Not the poster you were responding to directly, but in my limited A17 experience I only used pemmican and in a couple cases simple meals for caravans. The farthest I had to travel for a quest was 8-9 days and pemmican was fine for that trip. A couple quests were 2 days or less thanks to roads so for those I didn't even need pemmican.
There was one odd issue with the roads. I found one particular caravan going what appeared to be waaay out of the way, avoiding a road, to find the fastest path. It turned out that even though the average min temperature for a section of temperate forest was around 50F, the travel time through those tiles in winter was something like 11 hours with a road. The travel time through the arid shrubland adjacent to the forested region had a travel time of closer to 1-2 hours even in winter without roads. It was sufficient difference for my caravan to take a wide arc off the road when it entered the forest in order to go around it completely. The average temperature ranges across the forest and shrubland areas was not that different.
Okay! New build is up now. I really hope to get more feedback from you all! As you can see from the changes, it continues to be useful. This is build 1542.
Please only post feedback on the build in this thread - open suggestions should go in the Suggestions forum; bugs should go in the Bugs forum.
-------------------
Fix: Extreme desert doesn't spawn any animals
Regularized item hitpoints. Set eggs to 30, drugs to 50, general organic items to 60, weapons to 100, wood logs to 150, stone blocks to 200, etc.
MalnutritionSeverityPerDay 0.20 -> 0.17
Rebalanced some drug market values:
--Neutroamine 10 -> 6
--Beer 9 -> 12
--Go-Juice 45 -> 53
--Wake-up 24 -> 45
--Herbal medicine 12 -> 10
Penoxycyline production 3 neutroamine -> 2 neutroamine
Added new econ analysis tool for drug prices. It's rough.
Furniture/building sell price factor 100% -> 70%
Art sell price factor 115% -> 110%
Reduced pop gain intents from population a tad.
Adjusted some deterioration rates. Pemmican especially will last longer.
Fix: Herds gradually drift into the southwest corner (take 2).
Add Rand.PointOnDisc, which I keep needing for debug code and then not needing for production code.
Fix: When a patient is about to die due to blood loss then 2 float menu options appear: "tend to" and "treat".
GiveRandomSurgeryInjuries() now uses Rand.Element()
Fix 2989: Carried building materials show HP as -1/100
Show 5% coverage at the end if not running in the editor.
Optimized Medicine.GetMedicineCountToFullyHeal().
Clarified "failed to find exit spot for the caravan" message. Fix: RandomBestExitTileFrom() can cause errors and sometimes let you form a caravan even though it should be impossible.
Fix: Doors can be prison cells.
Fix: Tooltip on PawnCapacity lists all child parts of missing parts.
Fix: ThingOwner doesn't remove null items properly during loading.
int numberOfSheeps = 0
for(int i=0; i<sheeps.length; i++)
{
numberOfSheeps++;
if(me.asleep) break;
}
You seriously need some sleep, but good job ! :)
btw, could you explain "GiveRandomSurgeryInjuries() now uses Rand.Element()" a bit further?
Shouldn't travel time along roads be faster? They don't seem to list any difference.
so pawn got malaria, was treated with glitterworld + had sex with husband and was healed in less than 1 night. is this intentional?
edit: pawn got malaria 3 days in a row and was healed instantly by glitterworld medicine 3 days in a row
Quote from: username2 on May 19, 2017, 12:50:39 AM
so pawn got malaria, was treated with glitterworld + had sex with husband and was healed in less than 1 night. is this intentional?
edit: pawn got malaria 3 days in a row and was healed instantly by glitterworld medicine 3 days in a row
That sounds like an awesome way to treat malaria. But no, immunity is supposed to build up for all the infections.
Thoughts on the latest version: (6th of Septober, 1st year).
Infection seems fine - even at times a bit on the low side. I had my pawns perform surgery in a very filthy room; a room without even a basic floor, and the patient still only got one infection - which was healed even with a level 5 doctor.
Disease should probably not occour in the first two seasons. As we speak I'm on 5th of Septober, barely out of the first season, and 3/5 tribals now have muscle parasites. Thankfully I should have enough healroot to tidy them over, and it definitely could've been a worse disease, but it's still something that's a bit rough for this early in the game. I can't help but think that very few players will have established a decent hospital this early in the game.
For some reason, one of my Alcoholic colonists decided to go on a mental break and binge on ambrosia - this would have been fine, if we actually had any. Right now his binge consists of him sitting by a table 'relaxing socially'. Not a major bug in any way, but probably something that should be checked out at some point.
I can't help but think that farming is rather overpowered at the current time. I'm barely on day 6 as of me writing this, and I already have a net-worth of 29974, just from some cotton, some smokeleaf plant-parts and potatoes. Is there any reason why cloth and smokeleaf leaves are so expensive, while being so easy to come by? (cloth is probably the biggest sinner here, since it has a value of 1.90, and just from a small field of 200ish squares, I have had enough for 5 chairs, 5 toques, and a remainder of 1400. That's pretty insane for a normal sized harvest. )
Absolutely loving the new ventilation settings for open\closed. Glad it finally made it into the game, as it felt like it was missing in older alphas.
Loading times seem to have changed a lot in the most recent alpha. Same goes for the randomly generated pawns at the beginning of the scenario. I know there are a few people like me who can spend hours trying to generate some decent pawns at the beginning of the game, and with the extra added lag there, I'm worried that we'll talk hours before I'm finally in-game. Hope this is something that will be optimised again at a later time. It's not really a major thing, but it's something that could be (and has been) better.
In combat, trees need a serious nerfing for cover. At this moment, a tree provides better cover than chunks, which is Shirley some mistake. Even a 9.3% grown birch-tree has a 43% cover efficiency. Granted, it's a while since I was in the army, but I don't recall saplings, twigs and leaves to be that effective against gunfire. They also have the same hitpoints as a chunk of rock, which seems a bit overpowered. If I had to select ONE problem that needed fixing prior to the release, this would have to be it.
Edit: typos.
Agreed about infections generally not being dangerous. On the other hand if they hit a colonist that has a mental break then they can be very dangerous.
There's a problem with mental breaks and caravan ambushes. It seems that a colonist that can have a mental break is likely to have one the instant they are ambushed, which means they might just wander around in a daze while being attacked.
Quote from: Tynan on May 18, 2017, 10:15:49 PM
This is build 1542.
Rebalanced some drug market values:
--Neutroamine 10 -> 6
--Beer 9 -> 12
--Go-Juice 45 -> 53
--Wake-up 24 -> 45
--Herbal medicine 12 -> 10
Penoxycyline production 3 neutroamine -> 2 neutroamine
Added new econ analysis tool for drug prices. It's rough.
I'm excited to see these new numbers, but I think you should also up the neutroamine cost of Wake-up from 2 to 3!
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 19, 2017, 02:15:59 AM
I can't help but think that farming is rather overpowered at the current time. I'm barely on day 6 as of me writing this, and I already have a net-worth of 29974, just from some cotton, some smokeleaf plant-parts and potatoes. Is there any reason why cloth and smokeleaf leaves are so expensive, while being so easy to come by? (cloth is probably the biggest sinner here, since it has a value of 1.90, and just from a small field of 200ish squares, I have had enough for 5 chairs, 5 toques, and a remainder of 1400. That's pretty insane for a normal sized harvest. )
With 200 tiles of cotton you get 2600 cloth worth 4940 wealth and which can be sold for between $1976 and $2470 depending on difficulty, plus social bonus. Though cotton should not be harvestable in only 6 days... are you talking about partly grown plants?
Anyhow I agree with ReZpawner on sellable crops being an overpowered wealth/money maker. I added them to my sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GO015xXAjUGsv2pL4iwYxViVQL1y6jLrkVq-tDCKKyo/edit#gid=320313769) and created a tool to analyze the effect from RISK of each crop dying before reaching maturity.
http://i.imgur.com/r8Ps0fR.jpg
With 5% risk per day (arbitrary percentage), surprisingly, cotton is probably not the most overpowered crop. Strawberries are. Followed by potatoes (!), followed by corn/cotton. Risk of spoilage or detoriation value losses after harvest not taken into account. The balance also differs depending on wether you are limited by labor or grow space.
I think all the raw crops (except devilstrand) could use a large sell price nerf overall, but to balance them against each other we probably need a better estimation of RISK.
Fun fact: If there is a 5% risk per day of any crop dying, you will on average lose 86% of your devilstrand crops, 51% of your cotton, 63% of your corn and 23% of your rice.
Edit: Changed some typos and details in the wake-up suggestion.
Tribal start /Cassandra/some challenge/Temperate forest
Things i noticed from first 100 days
- 2 blights
- no "Wanderer Joins" events
- 1 arm lost during social fight - i think this is bit too harsh
- 1 rescue pod event, rescued pawn left colony not fully healed, right after he could walk again
- 2 rescue fugitive event - i always reject those ugly abrasive pyromaniacs with dementia
- 1 malaria event (2 colonists) - i bought 10 penoxy earlier, healed easily with herbal meds, normal beds, sterile floor, doctors lvl 6, 4x treatments if i remember well
- 1 toxic fallout (short, ~7 days)
- 15 major threats
- 7 enemy raids - one scyther survived 8 triggered steel traps!
- 4 manhunters packs - first pack it was single arctic wolf :)
- 2 maddened animal packs - it would be very helpful to have tagged all maddened/madhunter animals with an icon above them
- i noticed much more predators than usually on temperate forest map, always at least 3 on medium size map
Quote from: Polder on May 19, 2017, 05:38:22 AM
Agreed about infections generally not being dangerous. On the other hand if they hit a colonist that has a mental break then they can be very dangerous.
Seems, in the current build at least, infections are basically a foil to ensure you've got a hospital set up and a doctor.
I'm pretty happy with where they are: Assuming all is well, they're a non-threat. However, if you're travelling, or unprepared, they can be a problem. I like them that way; they basically add a bit of extra risk without being the game-stoppers for early games they were when more dangerous previously.
I just had a dog do something it completely shouldn't do. There was a raid and I had zoned it away from danger.
Instead of staying put it decided to run after a raider that kidnapped their bonded master and go apeshit on them.
It was awesome.
Been starting new campaigns every update, some patterns on Randy Some Challenge:
-All starts are in northern Temperate zones. I like having to deal with both cold snaps and heatwaves. It's what the weather is around here so it seems "normal" to have to combat both.
-Always start in Spring, er "Aprimay" (ugh). Have had a cold snap every start within the first week. Many on day 2/3. Kills getting any farming off the ground. Today it waited until day 9, just after I had everything planted.
-Blight has hit every game late Spring early Summer. When combined with the Cold Snap crops just end up being a waste of time. If the cold snap hits day 2/3, you can at least get something in before this comes along and just bitch slaps you into Summer...er "Jugust" (spring break fun or mimes wanting a new hobby..? still ugh though) A lot of foraging and hunting until I can get enough power to grow indoors is the only solution and makes for very straight forward, simple and boring play.
-Infections were way over the top, now they're just tame. Infections from injuries that is. I hate them with a passion, but they need to be ticked up just a smidge. If it's way too easy for me, it's a non factor to anyone who knows what they're doing. (difficulty of some challenge should have "some" challenge)
-Speaking of infections... Plague on Day 2 anyone..? Flu on day 5..? None of these for at least the first couple months please. It's like bombing your own cities and just adds insult to injury. It takes way too long to set up a game with half way decent pawns to have it wasted on this stuff.
-Raids have been manageable. I hate (love) the new AI. No more just camp and wait. Even kill boxes can be rendered useless. A lot of walls and hide stall them for a bit, but you can only have so many defenses. It's making open area compounds a knife edge to protect. It's good.
-Randy has a habit of sending 2-3 one after the other, which can get hectic when pawns get wounded. Can be mitigated by walking the line between nice camp and high value camp. Also good.
-Thank you for toning down the grenade spam. Level is good for this difficulty now. Still get multiple pawns with explosives and still manage to get somebody blowed up most encounters, but at least I have a chance to get out from under it.
-As an added Bonus if you order now, we'll throw in a psychic drone..!! Just pay separate shipping and handling... Always in the first 10 days or so, always at the worst possible time. I do get soother drones sometimes as well though, which is nice.
-What is with recruited pawns and not being able to clean/carry/cut..? I've gotten ONE in all the starts that could do the 3 C's, the rest were non C doing mother fill in the blanks. Don't like that at all, it feels cheap. Mama said never play against a stacked deck, and this is one part of the game that feels just like one.
-And old people... So... Many... Old... Pawns... Was there an AARP convention in the next town over we didn't hear about..?
-I intensely dislike the whole "I'm a random pawn and I just decided I belong here" mechanic. Um, NO. You don't choose to join me. Seriously... "Porko is 95 and a pyro..." Ugh. I'm not a person who kills pawns easily, but Porko, you gots to go away. If any of the pawns were half way decent it wouldn't be so bad, but it reeks of stacked deck saddling you with excess baggage.
-Like the new berry graphics, like the wild med plant. Hate the new stone chunks. They look like I got stuff on my screen and the colors are very hard to differentiate. (I'm old)
-Like the rivers and the roads.
-Caravans are confusing as the hot place. I figured out to make them work. Sorta. I ended up with someone wounded in an ambush and couldn't rescue/save/carry them. It felt silly. I was a stone's throw from base but couldn't just carry the guy there. Then he starved and died. Haven't used a caravan since. Did I miss a tutorial or something..? The whole added dimension of game play sounds like it could be fun, but the frustration factor is something I won't even deal with, not with all the frustration you already get just staying home.
-Point blank Chain Shotgun on an Emu sitting still. You'd have to be a horrific shot to miss. But they do. Level 1 or 2 shooter, yea I can see it. "Where's your toe Floyd..??" Level 8,9,10..? Not so much. If there's anything that could possibly stun an animal, having a chain shot gun go off point blank while your sleepin' would be one. Momentary? Sure, but a hesitation enough for a ca chunk and a second shot before you could get off the sofa.
-Why do Hunters always go AWAY from camp to shoot..? Always on the other side of the animal from camp. It should ALWAYS be Animal<<Shooter<<Camp, not Shooter<<Animal<<Camp. When (not if) that animal goes berserk, you want to have the shortest distance to run away to safety, not have to run PAST the raging claw machine to try and get home. Having to micro hunting because of this is tedious at best.
-We really need some new events. The never ending grind of storm, snap, blight, man hunting, flare, raid gets way to monotonous and predictable. I only play Randy as the others just make me dizzy. Randy throws some curves, but with the limited playlist even he sounds like a broken record.
Overall the game is enough to keep me playing, 665 hours and counting. It kicks my teeth in, enrages me to no end and has to be one of the most frustrating experiences you can have. I don't do the whole misery or gore or lets eat people and make them into hats thing. I don't do the whole convicts in space thing. I'm a builder at heart. It's incredibly difficult to build and maintain a thriving colony with everything that gets thrown at you, and when I get there it's very satisfying. When I don't I see the doctor to up my blood pressure meds...
Cheers..!
There seems to be a bug in the calculation when the food will rot during a caravan. I get a fixed number of "rot within 1.1 days", no matter which food and how much. I'm using some QoL mods though, so I can't say for certain that it's not mod-related.
Quote from: tomay on May 19, 2017, 06:39:02 AM
- i noticed much more predators than usually on temperate forest map, always at least 3 on medium size map
I noticed something similar on temperate. Cass rough, crashlanded. I started with the larger medium map and had 5 to 6 wargs, 3 to 4 bears, and a few cougars and wolves. Needless to say within a week they have eaten most of the other wildlife and turned their attention to me. I thought it was because I usually use the smaller medium map and wasn't familiar, but temperate always seems to have a lot of predators.
There is a bug where you can move pawns if you right click on mountains even when they are not drafted. I don't think there is any way to exploit it, so its not a huge issue, just a bit of weirdness.
Quote from: Doc Savage NDMF on May 19, 2017, 09:04:12 AM
-Infections were way over the top, now they're just tame. Infections from injuries that is. I hate them with a passion, but they need to be ticked up just a smidge. If it's way too easy for me, it's a non factor to anyone who knows what they're doing. (difficulty of some challenge should have "some" challenge)
I've found the challenge lies in dealing with infections out with your caravan. I understand you gave up on them, but grabbing item stashes and fulfilling trade opportunities are really neat sources of resources. They have a fair amount of risk to them, but at least the threat scales with each individual caravan and not with your base wealth so it usually feels reasonable I think. At times my caravan would been lost to infections entirely though if I wouldn't been able to send a drop pod with a skilled doctor and proper medicine. Practicing good cleanliness and providing comfy beds I don't notice infections much at base, but I've lost one caravan guy to infection before I got to research pod launchers, and another when I experienced a raid right after my caravan team had taken out an outpost which proved to be more "bloody" effort than I expected (f'ing triple rocket launcher guy out of nowhere).
It might be tame at the base, I agree with that, but how much of a problem should infections really be at a base where your pawns enjoy a standard quite a bit above that out in the bush? Infections do cause a major issue out there "on the road" and after crippling attacks at the base; in regards to balance that's where the infection challenge should be I think. Perhaps when new mechanics makes it easier to survive away from base, but atm I think it feels pretty balanced from an overall perspective.
The problem you had with not being able to rescue your pawn in your caravan is probably due to a little annoyance that you can't manage pawn inventory on the caravan forming menu. It's fine if you still got access to the map, then you can just go to the gear tab of any pawn or animal to drop stuff to give you potentially enough carry capacity to haul a pawn; the items you drop will then appear in the item list on the caravan menu instead of being MIA. If the caravan is reformed by force however then one is out of luck apparently - unless I'm somehow missing a hidden option to manage pawn inventory on that menu.
Just got a megasloth that self tamed on day 12, cassandra classic, rough. Woohoo. That is probably just a really random occurrence because taming hasn't been changed much, has it? I do remember reading that animal farming is supposed to be more worthwhile now. Is that happening?
I preferred spring/summer/etc over aprimay/gugust/etc.
Quote from: Polder on May 19, 2017, 01:03:26 PM
I preferred spring/summer/etc over aprimay/gugust/etc.
If you search through this thread you will see why it is not possible for those to continue working. The northern and southern hemisphere are now modeled how weather would actually work. So using season names as actual dates no longer works. What is winter is the northern hemisphere could be summer in the southern. So the new names represent actual dates, and not just the season.
Infections need to be deadlier.
Infections and surgeries need to be changed. Infections need to be deadlier in "before gitterworld" era but less deadly in the first three seasons. The first spring should be when the game should stop being kind with infections. Surgery still needs to kill less people from the surgery, but infection in successful surgery should be greatly increased. Historically and even now, if you got a surgery (especially non-amputations) the biggest thing by far is dying from an infection.
I think, at this point, Tynan has done more than a decent job at making infections feel deadly for unprepared players but trivial for players who know what they're doing. That's pretty much as it should be, in my opinion.
I'm sure there will be mods for harder/softer infections in A17; keep an eye out for those.
A17 feels great right now, and I personally feel it's 99% ready to be released.
Just got to get rid of those last few pesky bugs ;)
As someone who works in the health care field I assure you a well done surgery will have no infection. Infections are not very common anymore and the ones that pop up are very easily managed(baring antibiotic resistant organisms). As the pawns use medication when treating a wound or doing surgery it can be assumed that they are using prophylactic antibiotics.
Cant wait for a17 to go live!
New build! 1543
EDIT: At this point we're content-locked and only fixing critical bugs. If you were waiting to play now would be a great time to start.
Bear in mind performance is better on release versions than development versions, because release versions aren't slowed by all the debug-trace instrumentation.
--------
Balanced down prevalence of predators in some biomes so they don't kill off all the prey animals.
Adjusted some fill percents (e.g. cover effectiveness of various things).
Blight is bit rarer. Diseases start a few days later.
Fix an inconsistency in held or non-held positions.
Fire is automatically extinguished by water.
Fix: Almost all jobs which use CheckForGetOpportunityDuplicate toil make pawns carry more than necessary.
Fix: Pawns sometimes get stuck while forming a caravan.
GiveRandomSurgeryInjuries() now tries very hard not to kill the patient.
Fix: Right clicking on a hungry injured pawn with an armless colonist causes error spam.
Fix: TileTemperaturesComp causes error spam when the last settlement is abandoned.
I hope this isn't off topic, but I'm fairly new to the game, and A17 is mostly all I've played.
People may hate me for this.
- Randy random
- Rough
After several games, I noticed that if you wait until a rare thumbro is about to leave, you can gun it down very easily once it starts. It's clear that it prioritizes leaving even after going into revenge mode. This feels like an exploit seeing as how they aren't supposed to be easy to take down once combat is initiated. If this was intended, you should know it provides a huge boost to early game play in that not only do you get a ton of meat, but now you have some OP things to sell once a trader comes around. I took a short clip, but the file is too large to attach.
Quote from: DankStone on May 19, 2017, 07:45:44 PM
After several games, I noticed that if you wait until a rare thumbro is about to leave, you can gun it down very easily once it starts. It's clear that it prioritizes leaving even after going into revenge mode. This feels like an exploit seeing as how they aren't supposed to be easy to take down once combat is initiated. If this was intended, you should know it provides a huge boost to early game play in that not only do you get a ton of meat, but now you have some OP things to sell once a trader comes around. I took a short clip, but the file is too large to attach.
Thanks. Sounds like an exploit. We should fix that (for a future build).
one thing i noticed,
i had some friendlies come in to help me kill a crashed ship which i had ignored for 2 days,
after they killed the centipede , they walked back to my base.
one had be injured badly and so i rescue her.
the group was going to leave, but stayed at edge of map because of the injured colonist i rescued.
but because the injured colonist was badly wounded so stayed in bed for longer then a day, the group at the edge just waited
and slowly die from starvation, in till half the group was dead then, they decided to flee
I love the new flag stone and the texture for the tile but i noticed something, they both cost the same but the tile has a +1 beauty effect. I would suggest lower the cost of the flagstone.
Flagstone is vastly faster to lay.
Pawn labour is a real resource.
Quote from: Neotic on May 19, 2017, 09:19:34 PM
I love the new flag stone and the texture for the tile but i noticed something, they both cost the same but the tile has a +1 beauty effect. I would suggest lower the cost of the flagstone.
I agree on lowering the cost for flagstone slightly, but not because of the beauty effect; I think the cost for beauty can be considered to be the extra work amount needed for tiles. Rather, I think flagstone should cost less because you don't get any resources from removing it, so it's a little more wasteful to use flagstone if you're indecisive like me and end up removing floors fairly often.
1100 silver to request a trade caravan? that's seems ridiculous , that's nearly double A16 amount of 600
Quote from: Neotic on May 20, 2017, 01:32:13 AM
1100 silver to request a trade caravan? that's seems ridiculous i, that's nearly double A16 amount of 600
it costs 700 if you get their reputation over 40. It's only 100 bucks more expensive than A16.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 20, 2017, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Neotic on May 20, 2017, 01:32:13 AM
1100 silver to request a trade caravan? that's seems ridiculous i, that's nearly double A16 amount of 600
it costs 700 if you get their reputation over 40. It's only 100 bucks more expensive than A16.
I had a reputation of 39 there should be at least a gradient if they're gonna change it like that. Also according to the wiki
"Satellite calls to request caravans to friendly factions at the costs of 600 silver, which can be reduced to 300 silver if goodwill is above 40." it used to be 600 before a reputation/goodwill of 40
This is probably one of those silver-sinks Tynan was talking about. I don't think 1100 silver is too much to ask with respect to a faction you don't even like that much. A gradient would be nice I guess, but it's just more work.
Wiki needs updating, obviously :P
Edit: Silver-tongued? No, silver-sinks! Silly phone.
That event seem to have a random element to it, wether or not it will cost money. I've had a few of them that were free (and very helpful with 5 neurotrainers for free a day and a half away). Not all of that type of events require you to pay for it. Nor do they require a comm station or beacon.
hei hei!
Want to give my latest colony story here for the alpha 17.
So i started the colony on 16th May. And i tweaked the crashland scenario to have glitterworld medicine instead of normal medicine just in case for infections :D and the random pet i put it to muffalo cuz i like them hehehe.
By the end of the day of 16th May i had not used any glitterworld medicine and had a few attacks which means i think the infection rate is dropped now. i stared in a all year round growing area, mountain and forest. it seems to me that mad animals attack are more common oh and am playing on Cassandra rough. had an pirate raid that i didn't manage to defend well and all my colonists were incapacitated except my non-violent colonist. i cldn't defend anymore and the raid decided to kidnap one of my colonist and i let them to that so that i cld rescue the other 2 colonist i had. tried to rescue and although the pirates already were kidnapping one of my ppl they still shot at my non-violent which i don't remember them doing that before but i may be wrong on that. so manage to rescue a few and was trying to heal my other 2 colonists while my non-violent which luckly was also my doctor was also bleeding. the guy who was caring my kidnapped colonist got incapacitated and dropped her i didn't notice that until was to late and got a message that colonist died. the muffalo i had was ofc bonded with that colonist and got into a rage and decided to attack my non-violent pawn. so now i have 2 colonists not healed and a doctor incapacitated. all is good and i get a freaking wandered joins event, muffalo imediatly goes after him :)) one of the 2 colonists that were in bed was no longer incapacitated and got out of bed to go eat bum muffalo on her saying no no you are not allowed to go anywhere. then my doctor again also was no longer down and so muff did his job. after a while one colonist died cuz he wasn't taken care of :). muff eventually gets out of his rage and at the same time one of the colonist was not downed anymore so i tell them to start to heal ppl. and then she gets into a daze ofc and so my wandered also dies. at this point i gave up and quit the game :).
and then yesterday i start my game and forgot everything about my colony being on the point of annihilation and although there is a new vers decide to start the same colony again. luckily no bugs so far :). and now somehow manage to run the the colony with the 2 colonists left the non-violent one and a good shooting one. Problem now the good shooting person gets muscle parasites and here comes a deer man-hunter pack raid i didn't get to make proper base because of all this happening before so my 2 pawns were stuck in the med bay. i decide to poke a little and try to shot at the deer with my good-shooting but with muscle parasites and also missing a foot :)). so yeah that didn't go well. and somehow i manage to rescue my colonist and get the rifle stuck in the door before the deer can get inside. during this i get an escape pod ofc i can't go after him so he is left for dead. and after a while here comes another escape pod and with relationship. mad deers were falling asleep so i manage to go rescue this one :) and decide yet again to try my luck with the shooting colonist but again no luck and now mad deers are free to roam in my hospital room as well incapacitating anyone that tries to get up. yet again i am on the verge of losing my composure and feel like giving up. but i decide to stick a while longer so i get it on high speed. after a while the mad deers leave and then try to rescue my colonists unfortunately cldn't save the non-violent one and he died, and he was the husband to the escape pawn and now i am yet again at 2 colonists but things got a tad better and now am back to a 4 colonist colony.
i find now this run was exciting and i am glad i didn't decide to give up on the colony.
My conclusions are that
- mad animals cases are more frequent, which i don't find it bad. if you have a good walled base and you can function inside for a few days they are easy to handle.
- the infections rate are better now in my opinion at least for rough diff. i did get a few cases of infections but were because i left the injured to long without care and one got it cuz of dirty room but it was indeed filthy :D, which i find great.
- i found out that now pawns and animals can walk without one leg idk if it is a bug or intended ??
- i find the quests interesting but didn't manage to do any so far. at the start of alpha 17 was too preoccupied with infections and now not enough ppl to send for quests.
- traders are too rare imo but i guess there are other things that need to be taken into consideration here. so it is not a game breaker.
- the mood system it's a bit punishing if you have raids and stuff. they get a mood debuff if they see a dead corpse and they have no joy and they are stressed cuz you have them drafted and so on but no mood buff that they managed to get over a raid, and this leads to too much dazes after raids imo when you need them to be on call for healing and rescuing and what not. I find it frustrating.
I know a lot has been said on the infections topic but I wanted to add my $0.02. Have been playing on boreal forest for 3 seasons throughout the last couple builds. I've been affected by infection only once I think and that was only in the very beginning, some builds ago. I don't have a sterile hospital and I've used only herbal or no medicine. My doctor started at 4 I think and leveled up until 7 now. In the recent raid I captured a pirate who was beaten up and shot all over the place and was several hours away from dying. My level 7 doctor treated him without any medicine in a jail with soil floor and he still recovered without getting infected. Other than that didn't get any other diseases at all (even though I've been sleeping without heating for 2 seasons in subzero temperatures).
Raids have been a little on the easy side for me. AI appears to be smarter and it's more interesting to fight them but they didn't really match me weapon-wise. First raids were juts dudes with clubs an pistols. The last siege brought many raiders but they were all armed with pistols, clubs, shotguns and didn't seem to care much about my single colonist sniping at them with rifle. Eventually, once I injured them enough, they attacked and were easily defeated.
Overall the game is tons of fun! I saw Rimworld game in my dreams today, and my wife for some reason thinks that maybe it's because I played way too much lately but I don't see connection here ;D
---
Update: I've been playing on Cassandra Rough
For me the most annoying factor about summoning a trade caravan isn't how much it costs to bring them, but how little cash they bring. Sometimes with a huge stockpile of flake or smokeleaf, I have to request multiple caravans just to sell it all. That's when the caravan fees start eating into my profits.
Would be great if people could state the difficulty they're playing on when giving feedback etc. Makes it easier to analyze for both devs and modders.
Rich explorer, started in desert (cold'ish one) on the river close to road. Randy intense.
I set myself a goal to see how my rich explorer will die. It took him 54 days to do so: his caravan was ambushed by 3 manhunter alpacas and, while he was wandering in daze (with his charge rifle, god damn him!), his friend shot his girlfriend in the leg by accident. Apacas downed everybody. Girlfriend bled out, other two people died from starvation. They were conscious all this time (just could not walk) and very close to caravan camel that had some pemmican on him.
Only in this game: during severe starvation I prefered to dig out graves and eat people rather than butcher bonded camel and warg. By the way that mood debuff (even with "soylent green" machine) is very brutal now.
Serious remarks about gameplay:
- Cold snaps are too often. In 3 games I had this feel already, but in this last one those cold snaps were killing my food just all the time. There was 4 or 5 of them in 54 days I think.
- There was one very spoiled moment: when my caravan was dying on the ground, game asked me to leave that temporary caravan map. I could not do so because none of my colonists could move. So they were just deleted. This was very lame: if my colonists have to die, then I want to see that. If this game is about generating story, then dont take that story from me.
- Friendly colonies have too small ammounts of food on them, especialy long lasting types of it. I was hoping to save my colony from starvation with trading, but between 3 visited settlements I found none that had corn/potatoes/rice (which is the most logical thing to buy as food because it can be stored w/o refrigeration for a long time and does not cost much). One had berries, but they are more expensive than pemmican (quantity was low also). Some had meat, but it is hard to deliver it before spoilage. Some had meals, but it is more traveling food for caravan rather than survival strategy. Ammounts of pemmican was comical in all visited colonies.
I've moved another batch of posts to the bugs forum, so if you can't find one of your posts in this thread it's likely in the bugs forum. Or I deleted it, as this is not a thread for asking or answering questions about when A17 will be released either. The answer to that question is the same answer as always. When it's ready.
And it's nice to see so many new people visiting the forum and taking time to create an account to provide feedback. Great stuff, and your thoughts are certainly appreciated. Although can I please ask all new arrivals to acquaint themselves with the forum rules (pinned to the top of the General Discussion forum), and also to please try and read back a few pages on this thread before posting. The latter in particular so that you see one of the many posts like this one, informing you what the purpose of this thread is. Which for the nth time is...
Quote from: Tynan on May 18, 2017, 10:15:49 PM
Please only post feedback on the build in this thread - open suggestions should go in the Suggestions forum; bugs should go in the Bugs forum.
All in all very pleased with A17. While you say content has been locked, it still feels that it needs one last balance pass as far as the crops go.
I have lost four colonies in A17 (2 crashlanded, 1 tribal, 1 rich explorer) because of 1st year crop failures (the last one in build 1543.) Essentially, the recent changes to grow times are compounding event issues. Combined with the nearly now unaffordable sun lamps (power-wise), I have yet to have more than a handful of rice plants harvested before an event within the 1st 10 - 15 days destroys the crops. Depending on map size/terrain the hunting options are often not enough to sustain the colony, and traders are unlikely to have lots of food early.
Sun lamps are not viable at nearly double the a16 power-price for a colony still in its first quad to have set up greenhouses and even more so when considering the heat needs for cold climates. A more respectable power-price of around 2000W per lamp is more reasonable. However, the most unbalanced change has been the strength and timing of events that affect crops.
Blight - I get and I'm actually okay with because many pioneers and colonies have nearly or completely died off because of blight at any season of the year.
The one I do not understand is a mid-Jugust cold snap (at day 10 for me this last time - v1543) that drops the midday temp from 80F to 4-5F and lasts for several days (Northern Hemisphere.) Down to the 30s/40s sure I can see some realism there, but a nearly 80F drop? Throws the balance and usefulness of crops out the window. Especially considering I've never seen a 5 day long 80 degree heat wave in the middle of winter. Simply put, the intensity of the cold snaps feels too strong and too frequent. Go ahead and leave it as a summer option for an event, just take some of the *heat* off. Maybe the conversion factor for Celsius and Farenheit is off in the code?
I LOVE the scrimp and fight and struggle to stay alive that is in this game. It just feels like a bit too much of a "let's make it artificially hard for the player" gimmick as far as the crop-affecting events go (looking at you cold snaps....) when factored against player adaptive strategies. It's to the point that on crashlanded games (given up on tribal for now) the first things I build are a sun lamp, solar gen, heater, and battery and an enclosed greenhouse instead of beds.
Love Love love the game Tynan! Just offering my 2 cents to help you succeed it even more amazing. Thanks!
PS> the above mentioned playthroughs occurred on Randy rough and Cassandra Intense
Tynan I have hundreds and hundreds of hours playing A16 play and I have tried A17 unstable for some hours.
I appreciate all the news and the implementations, you did a great job. Many thanks for all the passion you put into your game.
I have a question: I noted that in A17 it seems harder to hit the target (first raid).
I had a survivle rifle pawn (shooting 11) and a gun pawn (shooting 4 or 5) into the forest, vs a raider level idiot. Nobody was able to center him.
Something has been reviewed regarding the pointing/shooting process?
I haven't played that much with A17 yet but i noticed one minor annoyance in the last playthrough.
With wild healroot and the ability to self-tend i tried a solo-run (custom scenario, start with nothing). Was quite challenging and i lasted 11 days. What killed me in the end was malaria and here is the thing: Despite being herb medicine available, self-tend activated and the diesase requireing tending my pawn decided to stay in bed for nearly a day - in hindsight i should have dropped the priority of patient - and i was unable to force him to tend himself.
With other pawns it is possible to override their current action and force a pawn to tend another one, apparently that is not possible if doctor and patient are the same person.
Not sure if it's a known thing but got a caravan during toxic fallout. Had to built roof above their hanging out spot so that they don't die.
Quote from: dogui on May 20, 2017, 03:07:54 PM
Tynan I have hundreds and hundreds of hours playing A16 play and I have tried A17 unstable for some hours.
I appreciate all the news and the implementations, you did a great job. Many thanks for all the passion you put into your game.
I have a question: I noted that in A17 it seems harder to hit the target (first raid).
I had a survivle rifle pawn (shooting 11) and a gun pawn (shooting 4 or 5) into the forest, vs a raider level idiot. Nobody was able to center him.
Something has been reviewed regarding the pointing/shooting process?
Trees now provide 43% cover. It's more than a little overpowered in my oppinion, but it seems to be here to stay. May want to let those beavers linger around a bit longer than normal in A17, because they provide one hell of a service. Also, rock chunks are now worse cover than trees.
TL;DR: Cut down or burn all the trees you can find. They provide insane cover.
Quote from: MagicMagor on May 20, 2017, 04:11:54 PM
I haven't played that much with A17 yet but i noticed one minor annoyance in the last playthrough.
With wild healroot and the ability to self-tend i tried a solo-run (custom scenario, start with nothing). Was quite challenging and i lasted 11 days. What killed me in the end was malaria and here is the thing: Despite being herb medicine available, self-tend activated and the diesase requireing tending my pawn decided to stay in bed for nearly a day - in hindsight i should have dropped the priority of patient - and i was unable to force him to tend himself.
With other pawns it is possible to override their current action and force a pawn to tend another one, apparently that is not possible if doctor and patient are the same person.
Malaria lasts for ages. I had to micro 4 pawns for malaria for something like 15 game days. Plague comes and kills quickly, as do infections, but malaria is miserable because it basically knocks out half your colony for several weeks.
Tree coverage was reduced in last update.
Quote from: Tynan on May 21, 2017, 01:00:21 AM
Tree coverage was reduced in last update.
Ahh, sorry, I didn't notice that it had been. Thanks for fixing that!
I'm running out of things to complain about, but is the price on Wake-up correct? It's got the same ingredients as Penoxycyline, but the value is $45 vs Penoxycyline at only $32. Fair enough that it has 15 work as opposed to 9, but I cannot help but feel it's a little overpowered for cash at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, I do love my drug-money, but it may need a slight adjustment for it to not be overpowered.
Other than this, it feels pretty good right now.
The way that immunity has been tuned in this build, it seems like a death-sentence when a colonist loses a kidney.
Quote from: Nainara on May 21, 2017, 03:33:51 AM
The way that immunity has been tuned in this build, it seems like a death-sentence when a colonist loses a kidney.
That's pretty much always been the case.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 20, 2017, 10:55:18 PM
Trees now provide 43% cover. It's more than a little overpowered in my oppinion, but it seems to be here to stay. May want to let those beavers linger around a bit longer than normal in A17, because they provide one hell of a service. Also, rock chunks are now worse cover than trees.
As Tynan said, trees have been nerfed (to 25%) - chunks have also been buffed (to 50%), and sandbags remain at 65%. Pre-A17, trees have always been better than chunks - I guess with updates, we only now start investigating and finding out.
Fun fact: torso-sized small sculptures, televisions, hydroponics basins, and snowmen all have better coverage than full-sized trees (and saplings).
I think I may have found some kind of bug, but I haven't tried to reproduce it yet. I recently had a caravan with a few dromedaries holding stuff arrive at my base, and I had serious issues with the game freezing for a second or two very frequently. The problem went away when I went into the dromedaries' gear tab and forced them to drop all of their stuff, so it might be a problem with colonists unpacking animals' gear.
I'm noticing infections hitting WAAAY earlier in-game than usual, even for Randy. I've had at least five different situations where my colony has been hit with disease within the first few days of landing, two of those incidents hitting before mid-way through the first day.
There's story, and then there's "2 of the 3 colonists got hit with the plague/gutworms immediately after crashlanding and proceeded to use up all of the medicine/food before anything could be done and leaving progress at a stand-still for the next in-game week." That isn't fun, that is just a sign for me to restart on another save.
Plague, malaria and infections are not bad to handle as of now even with herbal medicine. Infections are easy to catch, but i found them not so hard to treat. I bumped into a console error, but seemingly not related to a recognizable bug, so i didn't report it.
And... Why the partial implementation of "Look at me, I'm the worker now"? it is half as useful as it was before. Forcing a pawn do something not assigned to temporarily by only a left click is merely a QoL addition.
Anyway, It is nice to see all those other mods included in A17.
I would think plants would be gradient upon type (great oaks better than jungle trees) and on growth size. But that would take time to put in.
Infections don't seem terrible for me : using standard medicine, moderately trained doctors, normal wooden bed, and full bedrest, infections are easy to beat : my only concern is how herbal medicine fares, since its obviously reduced, and with the most stringent precautions early on, I beat infections by 20%...though with herbal, it seems it would be much closer.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on May 21, 2017, 05:38:59 AM
Quote from: Nainara on May 21, 2017, 03:33:51 AM
The way that immunity has been tuned in this build, it seems like a death-sentence when a colonist loses a kidney.
That's pretty much always been the case.
Maybe it's just apparent now because colonists are getting dismembered more often. Anecdotally, two out of my latest colony's six fatalities have been from kidney loss + flu, and kidney loss + infection.
I just finished up a long play (ended on Day 142) of the most recent build and had a blast. Cassandra Rough, Boreal Forest, 10-day grow period, totally random colonists. During this time I had 21 major threats and 17 enemy raids. I've been playing Rimworld since A14, and this patch has been the best improvement I've seen to the game yet.
The game feels incredibly well balanced now in general. My favorite improvements are the smoothed out pacing, strongly driven by revisions to raiders (especially making good weapons and shield belts rare). Crafting and trading for good was worthwhile instead of waiting for raiders to deliver goods to you. Every skill was rewarded.
Sunlamps work much better now. The increased upfront cost pairs well with solar panels, because you aren't paying the energy "tax" of batteries. Early on hunting and gathering were essential for survival, and as the game went on I was able to transition to more farming and herding for greater efficiency. Predators felt more impactful in general, ambushing my people as they were out in the wilds, and their improved AI made for dynamic combats (when you shoot them, they come at you instead of just eating the guy they downed).
My colony eventually fell when I had two raids in rapid succession: a poison ship followed by a siege. On my way to the siege, four of my people got malaria. Between wounds, infection, and disease my colony rapidly collapsed. I lost 5/9 people rapidly, which caused a mood death spiral, including a berserk puppy that did some serious damage.
Prior to that, I'd been able to handle infections cleanly - but I always had to be careful and get people to bed quickly. Early on the cold climate made me really struggle to have enough herbal medicine. I may have been able to survive that catastrophe if I had actual medicine and a better doctor (I had a few in the 6-8 range). I think infections and disease are right where they need to be - a dangerous compounding factor, but something the player can manage in calm times as long as they make reasonable choices.
Caravan ambushes seem frequent and risky. I never know how many people to send. It feels like I get ambushed 20% of the time, even across a very short trip (2 days or so). I never took a trip more than 2 days away... it's just too much time to lose. If I only send one person, I'm pretty much going to lose them. If I send 3-4 combat people, I feel more secure... but that's really hard to manage if you only have 8-9 in a colony. That's usually all my good fighters. It's not clear to me if raid threats are totally random, scale with colony size, or scale with caravan size. Each of those requires a different player strategy, but it all feels very opaque.
Those raids revealed one small mistake in text output. My lone trader was ambushed, and I had her run in circles for a very long time until I could have my people from my colony arrive to save her. Unfortunately, they were about an hour too late - they caught her, took her hostage, left the muffalos with the silver (?) and eventually executed her. As soon as they left the battlefield with my person, it said I was "Victorious and I had 24 hours to reform the caravan" You may want to add a different text message when you have no people left in an ambush spot. I was able to get my stuff back with the other crew... but that was not a victory. I also didn't understand why the raiders decided to "take who they can and get out" when there were no other threats in the area. Did I break the AI with my kiting, triggering some sort of timer?
The only addition that seemed lacking was the long distance mineral scanner. It didn't feel like a strong incentive to ever "move" my colony or really set up an outpost. It also takes a long time to do anything. I liked the idea of it, because it seems like it's aimed to create high risk / high reward secondary colonies. Right now it feels like biomes just act as a difficulty slider, and then you have little reason to move. This might be able to be fixed by changing the numbers, or maybe it'd require something much bigger (exotic, dangerous biomes in a future patch).
A small issue, but it's too easy to accidentally leave the caravan formation screen from the distance estimation tool. I assume 90% of the time the user's going to want to go back to the formation screen. Any chance we could get a warning box if you're about to quit out of the caravan setup mode while in that tool?
It feels pretty much ready for release. Great job, Tynan!
Bit of a confusing text on trying to do an organ removal on prisoners with herbal med or bellow permitted : it says "not enough resources", rather than warning the player to enable medicine for the prisoner to be cut open.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I'm hoping nothing else major will come up; it'd be nice to get this puppy out this week.
Does anyone know if the saves corrupting with each alpha release will ever be resolved? just asking as I enjoy doing late game plays and watching my colony grow and flourish, and it does get a bit annoying having to start anew (not that its bad cause it creates new stories)
I encountered a similar glitch with a carvan ambush. They downed my lone colonist ... walked around for a while and left the pack animals with all the silver (around 3,5k) to take him hostage. That just felt weird and i expected it the other way round. Why leave the tasty muffalo with all the cash to take the moron sheperd?
Industrious people now seem to have the "hard worker vs lazy" thought of normal people, not just lazy people. The tooltip should probably be updated if this is intended.
They also have it against neurotic people, which seems probably unintended.
Quote from: YokoZar on May 22, 2017, 06:06:20 AM
Industrious people now seem to have the "hard worker vs lazy" thought of normal people, not just lazy people. The tooltip should probably be updated if this is intended.
They also have it against neurotic people, which seems probably unintended.
This was an issue in A16 as well, it's not a new thing.
Quote from: wafflep90 on May 22, 2017, 03:36:36 AM
Does anyone know if the saves corrupting with each alpha release will ever be resolved? just asking as I enjoy doing late game plays and watching my colony grow and flourish, and it does get a bit annoying having to start anew (not that its bad cause it creates new stories)
You should be fine, the biggest issue was back in A14 i think, when the drug names were forced to be changed, in this unstable A17 the only thing chaged was a weapon name? So if you're past that update there won't be an issue, even if a name changes between now and then you can always edit the save file and change it.
Randy Macho Man Savage, Some Challenge. 6 person Military scenario, armed and vested, Spring drop.
Eclipse Day 2: No issue as I am just getting plants in the ground.
Mad Animal Day 3: It's a Rat, run..!
Raid Day 3: (1) Single Tribesman feeling buff and carrying a big stick. Well club anyway.
Solar Flare Day 5: Just in time to kill the first lights and cooler for a day.
Mad Animals Day 6: Two Raccoons conspire to "eat peoples and stuff".
Beavers Day 7: Yay..! Free meat..!
Cold Snap Day 8: Ouch. This will keep us berry picking 1/2 a season longer than we'd like to.
Raid Day 8: Two armed Pirates wait until well after dark and hit at night. (awesome TBH, as I don't have enough jackets for everyone to go out into the sub zero night to defend and the base is too small for defenses and multiple doors at this point. Not that I need everyone for this raid, but extrapolating this scenario into future raids of many more enemies it's neat to know this is a thing.
Frostbite Day 9: I build a bunch of fires around and micro 2 of the 6 for fingers and toes.
Cold breaks Day 11: We breathe exactly ONE sigh of relief as 3 of the 6 get Fibrous Mechanites.
Get 3 hospital beds up so we can rest until healed Day 12.
Day 13, 2 of the remaining 3 come down with the Flu.
No day 14. I don't relish being a baby seal...
Seriously. It appears the game has a VERY different idea of "Some Challenge" compared to the rest of all humanity.
I don't necessarily mind the Mechanites. If you have to get hit with something like this, it's the preferable one to get hit with. I had one colony where 4 of the 6 got hit with plague on day 2... That sucketh mightily and prompted a new start. Couple seasons in and it's not career ending, but 2nd day..? I got stuff to do.
Any new player will have issues with this at this difficulty level. I've only been around since b13 but I don't remember things being this bad off the rip. Rough, sure. Difficult, yes. In your face F off and just go play something else you pansy..? Not so much... As stated before, I base build more than anything else. I get that the "stories" are the driving force from the DEV standpoint. I find the stories to be limited in scope and repetitive, but they are appealing enough when combined with colony survival to keep playing. I'm not asking for the game to be a pushover, just a decent toehold.
I'm to the point I'm going to edit the files after release to increase raid strengths and decrease the big wheel of cheese. I like the combat. I find the new combat system challenging, engaging and fun. It's not over the top, but it's not a pushover either. It fits the difficulty level pretty well, though I imagine it's a little weak for those that play on the higher levels. The rest of the repeating cycle of stuff just getting in the way over and over again not so much. Things happen. No issue with that. It's the feeling of being constantly clubbed I don't enjoy.
Bug wise, the AI is getting dumber. Whether it's grabbing everything non essential while food rots to running in front of weapon firing individuals and into fire when path finding, it's getting to the point I can't suspend enough belief in reality to continue playing to compensate for the levels of AI stupidity. We need some sort of algorithm that says "don't run in front of the bullets" at least. Instead I think we got some of Al Gore's rhythm... Hunters really do need to keep their backs to camp for when the aminals go zzzzt. Pawns need to really NOT run into fire (actual or gun kind) to grab the stone chunk. Pawns really do need to be able to NOT go out into the far reaches of the world into man hunter packs or raiders or when it's too hot or too cold to grab stuff we can do without for a day or two or ten. Pawns really need some common sense.
On the flip side, you seriously should get some kind of award for how few bugs actually exist in any given build. I have AAA titles that are final released that are nowhere near as reliable to play as RimWorld is. I can recall 1 crash issue which when showing up had already been reported. IIRC, it was fixed later that day. I may not agree on all the design issues or on every decision, but you have no idea how appreciative I am for having spent my $$ on something that actually works and is playable. Thank you sir for your diligence and work ethic and for showing anyone wanting to know how it's done.
Cheers..!
Not sure if a bug or not, nor if it's new but...
When you are in a menu (world, restriction, orders, etc...) and click a pawn, I swear the menu used to close and go to the pawn, now it doesn't seem to.
Have played a bit more, I now have 1.5 years on my boreal forest (harder one, close to tundra) map with Cassandra rough. Raids have become very challenging and fun, now that some time has passed, raiders are carrying proper weapons and provide good level of challenge.
Disease, on the other hand, has been way easy for me. I didn't get anything like flu yet and have seen infection may be twice and was able to cure it with herbal medicine (in one case, applied herbal once only, the rest without medicine). My doctors are in 6-8 range and my jail has not had floor until very recently and yet the only pirate that got infected there was the guy who has spent a lot of time downed until I managed to pick him up. The other infection was one of my guys at the very start when I had 3-4 level doctors.
One interesting thing and I am very curious to see how it will play out: had friendly travelers passing by. One of them is 85 yo, frail, bad back, two cataracts, alcohol addiction. Needless to say he was very very slow. His friends have been waiting for him on the other side of map but once he passed out due to malnutrition, they decided to dump him and left. I decided to balance out my karma and do something good so I rescued him. Even after malnutrition passed he still cannot move. I wanted to give him beer to help him with his withdrawal and get him to leave but got notification saying that this will anger the faction so I stopped. Right now I am looking after him and really hoping that if he dies of old age on me, the faction won't get pissed off at me lol.
Also, I am not sure if it got changed but a couple of builds ago tribals raided me and I was getting -5 relations for each one I kill. I really liked it because it makes it harder to conver them to friends. I had another raid yesterday and haven't noticed this mechanic. I killed a whole bunch of them and my relations stayed at -40, where it was after I released some from the previous group. Now I am only 3 prisoners away from making them friendly.
---
UPDATE: Also, I don't know if it always has been this way but when I was playing yesterday, my brain damaged pawn died on spot after taking a joint.
Quote from: wafflep90 on May 22, 2017, 03:36:36 AM
Does anyone know if the saves corrupting with each alpha release will ever be resolved? just asking as I enjoy doing late game plays and watching my colony grow and flourish, and it does get a bit annoying having to start anew (not that its bad cause it creates new stories)
I don't think that is a thing to be "resolved," that is a byproduct of adding more things to the game and things changing. Best bet is don't plan on that ever being a thing.
A little feedback on the tuning for rain/fire. I got into a bit of a feedback loop in a tropical forest. I had a fire, a thunderstorm came to put it out. But the thunderstorm kept getting in one last strike, causing a fire that wasn't extinguished by the storm. I end up in this cycle for about 4 days, and it happened twice. The first time a regular rain finally occured, the second time the last strike hit my base and the colonists put it out.
I had the exact same thing happen last night -- on embark I had a frail 84 year old with a wakeup addiction , and when he ran out of wakeup and went into withdrawal he became bedridden/unable to move. I don't recall this happening previously, but it's possible I just never had this combo of attributes. Not sure if this is intended behaviour or a bug.
Ken
New build is up now! Just a few changes, seeing as we're content locked. This is 0.17.1546.
Unlike previous builds, this is a 'release' build, so it's not built with dev trace information. But, that means it should run faster.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. And as always, let's keep this thread to feedback to stay on topic.
EDIT: I've had to remove some posts. Please stay on topic. This thread is for feedback on the build. Not bugs (see Bugs forum), not open suggestions (see Suggestions forum), not question-and-answer. Thanks.
--------- CHANGES --------
Heat waves and cold snaps made a bit less frequent. Balanced down alpaca wool market value and corrected table maker calculations.
Fix: A trap and an item in a stockpile in the same cell causes infinite loop.
Randomize button on start is still unbearably slow compared to previous versions.
Quote from: ReZpawner on May 22, 2017, 11:39:35 PM
No point in asking. Posts asking are just removed without any explanation.
Source: I tried asking yesterday.
Ludeon Studios doesn't post ETAs for alphas, and Tynan has valid reasons for not doing so. He also
has explained why posts are getting deleted. ::)
On topic: The game feels ready on my end. I'm not noticing any bugs, balance or performance problems at this point. My machine is probably considered mid-range, and everything runs beautifully in the late game :D
I'm brand new to the game, I played the tutorial last night (in A16) for the first time and for a few hours after that. Tonight I played a world in 0.17.1546 for 437 minutes according to Steam, started with a the basic 3 survivor scenario and ran it 'til I died. I had two people join and captured four impossible to convert people, one who finally joined me. The prisoners demand on my food and medicine doomed me but, in the end, it was the beavers who finally got me.
Seems like a pretty stable build to me, as an uninformed observer it all seemed to be working right.
Seems to be running pretty smoothly.
I still feel the quests are still not really worth doing, as there's a massive risk involved with leaving your main colony understaffed, then facing an unknown force several days away with a small force of your own, after braving scary random encounters both ways. I've tried several times during the last few builds, but every time I've met with failure... And even if I'd been successful, the rewards where unimpressive at best.
I love the concept, but unless I'm missing something strategically I'm not seeing them being worth anywhere near the risk.
The far away scanner thingy is so, so, SO freaking useless... 30 days to scan, consuming power non stop to find a single chunk of resources far far away from the colony... common! if you want more resources a temporary mining colony is way more efficient than that. What advantages has that scanner to a mining colony? Sry i don't get it.
Quote from: faltonico on May 23, 2017, 07:55:07 AM
The far away scanner thingy is so, so, SO freaking useless... 30 days to scan, consuming power non stop to find a single chunk of resources far far away from the colony... common! if you want more resources a temporary mining colony is way more efficient than that. What advantages has that scanner to a mining colony? Sry i don't get it.
Well I guess it good for me cause it a easier way of getting Jade and gold since they are super rare, get like 300-400 gold/Jade per place and most of the time (for me) it unguarded so safe traveling
I don't think I am understanding the new floor choices. Flagstone cost the same as tile but offers no beauty, no speed increase for pawns compared to tile, yields no resources when dug up but tile does give resources back, and the only benefit is it is faster to put down. Shouldn't flagstone floor be cheaper in resources to place than tile or maybe make pawns move faster than tile does? At this point I don't see why I would chose tile except that I like the way it looks. In its other attributes it is not better than tile.
Mid-game of my desert colony ( cassandra extreme, permadeath) : http://imgur.com/a/PNSzM
*raids:
tribal raids are no longer the swarm of bees they used to be, less a pain to deal with, but pirates are more dangerous
i had very few mech raids
*crops:
blight being rarer, corn is definitely doable, i have not crunched the numbers, but like to keep growing rice to train growers
*manhunter packs:
definitely tuned down, they seem far less numerous but i guess they were free food anyway
*item stash:
they worth it, neurotrainers > gold > weapons > gear
even guarded two pawns can deal with them
*travelling:
trade caravans are almost mandatory if you want to buy bionic parts without being ripped, they are rare and you've to look for them in different faction bases
*ambushes:
really easy to deal with if you're not reeling from a raid
*economy:
i can barely buy bionic parts i need 4 years in, so mid game is more challenging, crop is limited on desert but i didn't focus on crafting, drugs or sculptures either
*outpost:
didn't raid one yet, i was raided while a few pawns were out in a caravan and had one or two close calls. but with the population growing i'm getting to the point a small squad could be detached to an outpost. though that would really be for fun because the megascreen tv isn't worth the danger
Is it a BUG or am I missing something? Sculptures does not add up impressiveness to areas where they are built? I.E. If you build legendary sculpture with 1000 beauty to the area, the impressiveness of relatively small area almost does not change.
Quote from: Paultergeist on May 23, 2017, 01:22:46 PM
Is it a BUG or am I missing something? Sculptures does not add up impressiveness to areas where they are built? I.E. If you build legendary sculpture with 1000 beauty to the area, the impressiveness of relatively small area almost does not change.
Ive had an issue like this in A16, 2 legendary pieces helped, but a 3rd actually lowered the rating because the space of the room was reduced by its instillation. It makes a bit of sense that a small room not be driven into a super high rating by filling it with pretty things. Havent really gotten into the math though. I do not think its a bug though.
I know its probably a bit late, but I'm seeing others mention it on reddit but not much here. I'm finding infestations to be extremely hard to deal with currently. First of all, when they agro, they seem to stay agro-ed as long as there is any furniture within a rather large range even through walls/doors. They also seem to adapt the sapper pathfinding when agro-ed. They choose a wall to attack that is the shortest way into your base, which often means that you get a deathstack of insects all attacking one wall after the first wall gets destroyed as it is now the shortest path. I had a long strip mine set up with doors on each strip, a large burn section ready to ignite after deconstruction of doors leading to hives. What ends up happening is that after the heat gets past 300 F, all the bugs group on one tile and mine into my base. Even around year 1 this is too many to compete with a double bionic repairman with granite walls. I also tried kiting down my 3 wide hallways, but they tended to just go for my rooms and destroy tables/art instead of hunting my colonists after i went behind doors. This forced me to enter into my 11x11 by rooms with them which is not long enough for kiting and gunfire. Heres my colony for reference of how i set up the mines. Left strip was an attempt to cool them down to destroy hives, but haven't tried using it yet (http://puu.sh/vZiLb/0b973817ad.jpg).
Cassandra | Intense
-I find it takes a very long time to get my fourth colonist, three games in a row. I've gone a year or more without my fourth colonist in the first playthrough.
-I have not taken a single prisoner in any playthrough. I don't know why, but I haven't.
-If the first visitors/caravans do not want to trade it can make the game very difficult
-I find I do not trade nearly as much as I did in alpha 16
-Getting the initial 1100 silver to trade with is pretty difficult if you're struggling already to survive. I've had situations where I have a ton of stuff to trade but end up starving anyways because I can't afford to request a caravan. Sometimes I even have a stockpile of gold but I cannot trade because they only take silver.
-Cannibalism seems to cause a mental-break domino effect which makes sense, except that even after beating the mentally broken colonist into submission, he goes right back into a mental break the second he can walk again. I eventually got out of the spiral but it handicapped me for damn near a year
-Mechanoid raids seem really weak and too easy to deal with
-Turret range seems less than alpha 16. Enemies regularly stay at a distance and snipe at the turrets. Not saying its good or bad, but I do notice mass turrets are a LOT weaker than they were in alpha 16 (IMO)
-Raids with humans are overall more satisfying and more difficult now. I like it better.
-Colonists do not seem to automatically wear parkas, even in -30F temperatures. They will stick to synthread coats. Kind of annoying to micromanage that all the time. They'll get to their mining spot, hit the rocks once, and then run back to base because hypothermia. Meanwhile I have 10 (admittedly shitty quality) parkas in my stockpiles not being used
Raids - Human raids seem a lot better/improved now, pirates and outlanders don't just rush into kill boxes. Tribes still rush into kill boxes (making them easy to deal with still).
Manhunters - Seem easier to deal with now (don't know if this was changed in A17, but I personally dislike it if this was tweaked).
Infections - I completely forgot infections existed in A16, they seem to be a threat now.
Economy - Has been improved immensely.
Flagstone flooring might be bugged, I don't see any benefits in using them over stone floorings.
Just to explain a bit, the main reason flagstone is the way it is is because we needed something for roads and I didn't want to incentivize players to strip up the road every time.
I think flagstone works ok outdoors instead of quick concrete if you're looking to save steel when laying walkways or making a firebreak.
I really like the improvement to mortar accuracy. Their effectiveness makes the resource trade-off worthwhile against dense raid groups, but not overwhelming. It seems like they can bring a strong late-game defensive advantage to plains situated colonies.
Quote from: wyoian on May 23, 2017, 01:56:53 PM
I know its probably a bit late,
-snip-
I noticed that too, they chase you down now till they get you and go berserk if you destroy their hives.
But I don't really care i just disable that shitty event anyway.
Quote from: Joel1 on May 23, 2017, 04:54:51 PM
Manhunters - Seem easier to deal with now (don't know if this was changed in A17, but I personally dislike it if this was tweaked).
Forgot to mention this as well. Manhunters seem a lot easier to deal with. I had two megasloths in one manhunter pack... pretty much free food + leather. Cassandra | Intense
Just started a new colony today, and for some reason mad animals just appear in my defined base. Im just off center of the largest map available with never any creatures inside my walls. The event will pop up pointing me to the edge of the map, I go to look, and all of the sudden 4 boomrats are attacking my colonists safely inside. The lone one is still making its way over from the edge though. This isnt the first time it has happened in this session, but before this last time I just wasnt sure.
For the people who have been testing A17 on the harder difficulties, especially with Cassandra; How much plasteel are you getting compared to A16? Are the mech raids/poision ships fewer and far between, or about the same?
So far there is no question, i've had much less plasteel.
When i said i had fewer mechs raids, i should have said i can't remember when the last mech raid occured. There seem to be fewer ships too. On my flat desert map there is no apparent plasteel vein, but i've not dug out all the small hills. No ancient danger either.
So far the ratio of raids / major threats is 34/44, higher than in my last A16 game, and the vast majority of raids are humanoid raids.
Regarding raiders, they mostly bring bad quality/ damaged weapons the exception being sniper rifles, i have many normal/good brand new sniper rifles brought by raiders.
I honestly can't remember any mecha or ships. Cass rough. I did see plenty of plasteel on arid and tropical maps. My last tropical map, larger medium map, had at least 3 obvious. A16 I noticed that the distribution of above ground resources tends to be biome specific.
8 hours yesterday, 4+ today on my tradition Randy Some Challenge Base Building Expedition. Not a single hiccup aside from a graphic glitch if I get the camera just right. No lags or slow downs at all, very smooth sailing.
The 1st Cold snap seemed a touch nicer temp wise and waited till mid Spring. Be nice to skip that 1st one TBH. The rest were sub zero every thing dies. On this map I went just south of Boreal, no avoiding them that far north. Spring and Fall were just extensions of Winter, Summer was a heat wave, two nice days and foggy rain. Then came the Toxic Cloud which just added to the cold.
The extended grow times are nice in this type of map. Blight likes to hit just right. Had quite a few lean months with very few animals to hunt most of the time. Only got Beavers once in the 2nd year and the occasional mad rat. No man hunter packs at all. Thinking this may be the exception that proves the rule... Had a couple days I was sharpening the knives to butcher the pets but managed to keep them all.
Randy raiders hit me 5 times in the 2nd Spring, one of my own choosing accepting a stray. I really needed a decent constructor and he was the only viable option for the foreseeable future. (he could even haul..!) The raid hit hard and left me vulnerable, 2nd raid cost me people. All 4 were larger groups with sappers. Two hit where I was ready, the last two hit where I was weak. Sandwiched in between was a Syther drop that clearly showed turrets don't have the range they once had. Thankfully they hit the strong side of camp. It's a b!@#$ when all raiders spread out and hit you. Going to have to rush machining for sniper rifles to pick off the grenades and cocktails and find new ways to hide. When you're out numbered it's so easy to lose sight of someone and have them end up a 12 piece extra crispy in need of a bucket.
The whole parade of calamity actually felt somewhat random this time around. It was a nice game aside from the getting shot and blown up and dying and stuff. These are the games that keep me coming back.
Aside from minor balance stuff (like plasteel being hard to come by, light bulbs with wattage out to lunch and traders avoiding me like the plague) build ship quality looks good from here. Oh, and we really should be able to handle Ambrosia like any other drug. Not planting mind you, I like that it's only in the wild. But we really should be able to disallow its use etc.
Cheers..!
I have never wanted to dig up and re-plant anything more in my life than Ambrosia though. Got lucky once and it spawned near enough my base to include it. Seemed to work well, as it didn't disappear like the others did.
Then again, in the last version, a walled in group of ambrosia plants did disappear, so I can't even be sure if they disappear or not in the latest version, even if they are taken care of. Anyone able to confirm or deny?
Just want to say that solo caravan don't self treat them self when they are moving even though self treating is on and I have meds, does it only work if I had two people while caravaning (talking about when the caravan is only on the world map and not in a place, like not setting down)
Quote from: wyoian on May 23, 2017, 01:56:53 PM
I know its probably a bit late, but I'm seeing others mention it on reddit but not much here. I'm finding infestations to be extremely hard to deal with currently. First of all, when they agro, they seem to stay agro-ed as long as there is any furniture within a rather large range even through walls/doors. They also seem to adapt the sapper pathfinding when agro-ed. They choose a wall to attack that is the shortest way into your base, which often means that you get a deathstack of insects all attacking one wall after the first wall gets destroyed as it is now the shortest path. I had a long strip mine set up with doors on each strip, a large burn section ready to ignite after deconstruction of doors leading to hives. What ends up happening is that after the heat gets past 300 F, all the bugs group on one tile and mine into my base. Even around year 1 this is too many to compete with a double bionic repairman with granite walls. I also tried kiting down my 3 wide hallways, but they tended to just go for my rooms and destroy tables/art instead of hunting my colonists after i went behind doors. This forced me to enter into my 11x11 by rooms with them which is not long enough for kiting and gunfire. Heres my colony for reference of how i set up the mines. Left strip was an attempt to cool them down to destroy hives, but haven't tried using it yet (http://puu.sh/vZiLb/0b973817ad.jpg).
Infestation is extremely hard to beat and can spawn in your underground base which makes it completely not viable to build underground (afterall, getting killed in 1 night inside your own base is crap). I usually make a scenario where I disable the infestation event.
Quote from: medzernik on May 24, 2017, 10:27:56 AM
Quote from: wyoian on May 23, 2017, 01:56:53 PM
I know its probably a bit late...
Infestation is extremely hard to beat and can spawn in your underground base which makes it completely not viable to build underground (afterall, getting killed in 1 night inside your own base is crap). I usually make a scenario where I disable the infestation event.
Yea I know some people enjoy that. Before this I always was able to prep and mine out extra land so they didn't spawn in my base, except maybe 1 hive which was easy to deal with. I enjoyed the past difficulty as if you had the resources (time) to mine out a huge chunk of mountains a safe distance from base, you could minimize moutnain base risk. I'm not sure how to do that now is my biggest worry. Unless i make my entire base one giant room to allow infinite kiting, I'm not sure how to handle infestations. Will dev spawn a few tonight and try to deal with them and post results.
When I had an infestation I noticed that insects chasing you will not spend long trying to break down doors. They might whack it once or twice but then will lose interest and wander off. To deal with the insects I simply popped in and out of the door taking potshots at them - it took a while but I was able to take them out without difficulty. I must say though I did much prefer the A16 insect behavior.
Quote from: giltirn on May 24, 2017, 01:08:40 PM
When I had an infestation I noticed that insects chasing you will not spend long trying to break down doors. They might whack it once or twice but then will lose interest and wander off. To deal with the insects I simply popped in and out of the door taking potshots at them - it took a while but I was able to take them out without difficulty. I must say though I did much prefer the A16 insect behavior.
I'll have to test as its been 3 patches since I last had an infestation, but I kited them up the long hallway in the picture above, they then dropped agro to my colonists and broke down doors to furniture to attack instead which seemed very different.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It was very helpful. A17 is public now so I'm locking this thread.