Ludeon Forums

RimWorld => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tynan on May 24, 2017, 01:57:32 PM

Title: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 24, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
Based on the blog post (https://ludeon.com/blog/2017/05/alpha-17-on-the-road-released/), this thread is for feedback and discussion on Alpha 17!

However, this thread is really feedback and discussion-focused. Other specific kinds of comments should go in the appropriate forums:

Suggestions should go in the Suggestions forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=6.0).
Bug reports should go in the Bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0).
Support requests should go in the Support forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=9.0).

Thanks all!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Limdood on May 24, 2017, 01:58:53 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mellowautomata on May 24, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Dang it, I wanted to say I'm kinda new here so I'm first. But I'm kinda new here so I'm second
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Safir on May 24, 2017, 02:05:45 PM
Yeah, I was just about to start a new A16 game and had almost finished downloading all mods I wanted to use. Now I suppose I'll have to aim for a vanilla A17 instead to take all the new stuff in. Thanks Tynan!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mellowautomata on May 24, 2017, 02:09:42 PM
Yeah, I was just about to start a new A16 game and had almost finished downloading all mods I wanted to use. Now I suppose I'll have to aim for a vanilla A17 instead to take all the new stuff in. Thanks Tynan!

If you want, you can select A16 from beta branches in Steam client (assuming you use it, which I think you should be able to since they added the possibility of getting steam key even for DRM-free purchases, although not sure about the restrictions). In case you don't know how to participate into one, just right-click RimWorld on Steam client, go to properties and then the "BETAS" tab and opt into whatever branch you want. Here's a picture: https://gyazo.com/3306fbcf8cf094ad19119d358d06f216?token=06cf362c270076db180c9280f7d26c75

By the way Tynan, if I had played for A17 beta branch, should I expect anything being different now than, say, two days ago?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 24, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
By the way Tynan, if I had played for A17 beta branch, should I expect anything being different now than, say, two days ago?

It's exactly the same build, actually.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mellowautomata on May 24, 2017, 02:14:17 PM
Oh well, I'm still excited, since the modders are probably gonna start releasing their stuff for a17
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Cashdiddy on May 24, 2017, 02:25:16 PM
Is there any change toward colonist population limit (i didnt see anything mentioning this) like increasing the population cap and if not where could i find the files to edit this myself (and maybe release a mod) on steam?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mellowautomata on May 24, 2017, 02:39:10 PM
Is there any rework toward colonist population limit (i didnt see anything mentioning this) like increasing the population cap and if not where could i find the files to edit this myself (and maybe release a mod) on steam?

There are population cap mods but all of them seem to be for a16 (and I tried one that doubled pop cap for each storyteller, it seemed kind of buggy since it was for a16). I think Tynan doesn't intend to increase the cap inherently because the story-driven factor is basically negated the more pawns you have. OTOH, I have mixed feelings about this myself, in particular due to the new direction that caravans seem to introduce and the whole "multiple colonies" possibility.

Another reason is also performance-wise.

And on a personal note, I honestly don't recommend trying to go for huuuge population. It really starts to become a mess slowly as this game lacks lots of tools that I feel are somewhat essential for proper macromanagement. There are mods to meliorate the issues of managing a huge colony, but basically the feeling you'll get will be more like playing one of those different kinds of colony simulators where you get these soulless, faceless servants that have no personality, to simply do the tasks you want them to do.

I think caravans can actually still make it meaningful, but... it would also make this less of a colony simulator and more something like Kenshi. It could be very fun, but... yeah. Also, I can't see it working unless your main-colony gets less affected by events that in particular require your activity (raids, electricity shorting etc), which again sounds just weird.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Cashdiddy on May 24, 2017, 02:43:04 PM
I agree with performance wise (which is why i'd rather have the ability to edit it to what my system can handle and not have people on laptops suffer for people like me with gaming PC's to have all those colonies we want :P) but i more just want to know the location of the file dictating this so i can edit it and maybe release a mod for A17 for those who also want it :P
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 24, 2017, 02:47:15 PM
You can edit the storytellers by overriding StorytellerDefs. The core StorytellerDefs are in Mods/Core/Defs/Storyteller/Storytellers.xml
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Sirportalez on May 24, 2017, 03:06:38 PM
Wow that base generator is so awesome!  :o

Very good update. Thank you!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Ra_Tukt on May 24, 2017, 03:43:30 PM
Hi! I am so happy you came up with a solution for the stockpile/creation inefficiencies!! Is there anything similar in the works for filling a stockpile itself from another lower priority stockpile ? I am always perturbed when I set a stockpile to fill with medicine at high and it goes down by an increment of 1 and a colonist feels the need to refill it despite being across the map.

Bonus Question, have you planned to have the updates follow a kind of wave to help with press, hype, and let's plays? As in, one flashy update adding new stuff and one lowkey update really polishing everything and making the game smoother.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Rulin on May 24, 2017, 03:47:56 PM
Do rivers grant any benefit atm or is it better to settle elsewhere if you want more soil?

Is it maybe just a foundation for future features like boats, fishing and water wheels?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Wanderer_joins on May 24, 2017, 04:16:41 PM
Are multiple settlements still experimental or does the storyteller take into account the number of colonies?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: GiantSpaceHamster on May 24, 2017, 05:40:24 PM
Quote
Manhunter pack incident can now use any kind of animal.

I thought this came up during A17 "beta" when someone had a Thrumbo manhunter pack, resulting in Thrumbos being removed from the manhunter options. Does this mean that got reverted (or that I am hallucinating) and that Thrumbo manhunter packs are a possibility now?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 24, 2017, 05:46:20 PM
Thrumbos are now restricted to their own incident and can't arrive as manhunters. You can still get Megasloths and other huge animals though.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Headshotkill on May 24, 2017, 05:57:11 PM
hmmmm, might want to test those buffed mortars, maybe they sound a little too buffed.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ShadowTani on May 24, 2017, 06:05:06 PM
Am I correct in assuming that manhunting pack numbers are scaled according to at least their size, or their attack power? It seems something along that line, but not sure as it could just be a coincidence of Randy being random or my memory not being too good. But either way, oh boy, the faster smaller animals are WAY more devastating than the slow large ones when they arrive in a huge zerg that my colonists can't run away from (especially true when not on base), lol. Just thought I'd throw that out here since we where on the subject of manhunting animals. xD It makes it a nice two in one event, where one with large slow animals = free meat and leather event / while one with small fast animals = hide or get ganked event, or dwarf fortress level of FUN if you like xD
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Bozobub on May 24, 2017, 07:56:33 PM
There is no more honorable demise than death by squirrel.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Razyda on May 24, 2017, 11:04:00 PM
No feedback as I haven't played this alpha yet (just downloaded it), just wanted to say these updates are much appreciated, I love this game and it just keeps getting better!  8)
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Saikar on May 24, 2017, 11:14:31 PM
Can't say I'm thrilled about the mining changes. Getting 25 steel per tile is going to make me burn through my resources amazingly fast.

It also takes longer to chop down a tree than it does to build highly complicated electronic devices like a solar panel, which is baffling.

Edit: played with mining, see it goes up by about 3 per level. I was getting yields of 30 at level 4. In order to get to 75 that would take 15 more levels, or 19 mining skill, assuming it scales liberally like that. That's... not encouraging.

Really don't understand why this game becomes more and more difficult every patch without any real balancing factors to give players robust options and new choices. Its not like you have any alternative to mining in early game.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 24, 2017, 11:45:51 PM
Saikar - the standard mining yield is 35 (not 75) and has been for many alphas.

A level 4 pawn gets 90% of standard yield (31 or 32); a level 8 pawn gets 100%, level 20 gets 113% (39 or 40).

Quote
It also takes longer to chop down a tree than it does to build highly complicated electronic devices like a solar panel, which is baffling.

Not sure where you go this. The work to harvest an oak tree is 1000. The work to build a solar panel is 2500. The tree harvest will only take longer if your constructor is really good and your treecutter is really bad (e.g. missing an arm or something).

Quote
Really don't understand why this game becomes more and more difficult every patch without any real balancing factors to give players robust options and new choices.

Dozens of systems were rebalanced, including making many of them easier, all in an effort to bring new choices into focus.

The main thing in this build is that colonists having poor skills was made more important, which makes the economy harder in some cases (and easier in others when you have a very good pawn/skill match). You actually should know a bit about your pawns and you now have a reason to choose one econ strategy over another if you have different skill mixes.

Since the econ game is now more in-depth and challenging, I reduced the strength of the raids significantly. So, rather than having a super easy econ game matched to masses of raiders to beat you down, both the econ game and combat game present a significant portion of the challenge. That was the design goal.

Quote
Its not like you have any alternative to mining in early game.

Wood is the alternative, unless you're choosing to play in a really hard biome without abundant wood supplies.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: O Negative on May 25, 2017, 01:04:14 AM
Gotta say, I'm really loving the way fires leave behind a story of destruction (ash, tree stumps, etc.)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/771651451522352808/3E957454F64616DB9C72BA5E3B628C0B37B067A7/)
I was able to stop the fire relatively easily by cutting plants, and using the river to the south to my advantage.

I've been playing on Cass | Rough, on my first serious playthrough.

Temperate biomes are incredibly easy, and I feel like I can be creative here. As you can probably tell by my screenshot, I'm playing around with different floor plans for houses made of wood. Not the cleverest of things to do, but I like the aesthetic of them. Probably going to actually use firefoam poppers now, since I like wooden floors and those can catch on fire now :P

Overall, the game feels great. A bit easier than past Alphas, but that's not a bad thing :)
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: cmitc1 on May 25, 2017, 02:35:19 AM
if I'm not mistaking, A17 was also suppose to improve the option of using livestock as a food source? if it does, what does it change?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Listy on May 25, 2017, 03:59:11 AM
Did the Dead mans clothing get re-worked? Because the current filter set up is a right royal pain to control your stockpiles, and the lack of filter for outfits causes some issues.
It'd be easier and more logical to control if the stockpile filter was reversed.

Did Construction get split back into Repair and construction?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ReZpawner on May 25, 2017, 04:52:11 AM
Quote
Its not like you have any alternative to mining in early game.

With a tribal start on a flat map, I barely do any mining at all. It's perfectly doable to rely on chunks and traders.

Oh, and I start without any additional resources.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Birdy on May 25, 2017, 05:49:14 AM
if I'm not mistaking, A17 was also suppose to improve the option of using livestock as a food source? if it does, what does it change?
Added “animal gather speed” stat which makes some pawns faster at gathering wool or milk.
Added “animal product yield” stat which makes some pawns more/less likely to waste the product when gathering wool or milk.

I believe that helps some. :D
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mellowautomata on May 25, 2017, 06:33:17 AM
Quote
Its not like you have any alternative to mining in early game.

With a tribal start on a flat map, I barely do any mining at all. It's perfectly doable to rely on chunks and traders.

Oh, and I start without any additional resources.

I recently watched A16 playthrough with a person starting in sea ice with three colonists, entirely vanilla (at least never noticed a mod) and what seemed to be default crashlanding setting, rough Randy.

After seeing that he actually managed to play it through (and while his luck wasn't catastrophic, it was mostly terrible, only exception being that his pawns initially seemed to make great shots with rifle).

And that guy managed to do it. Despite making also mistakes which lead to wasted resources that were crucial in the beginning of the game.

After seeing his story, I think it's unreasonable to say that you can't pull it off no matter what, at least with default crashlanding setup.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mattig89ch on May 25, 2017, 07:46:33 AM
Just wanted to say, well done.  I haven't played it yet, but the list of addons and improvements is great looking.  Really looking forward to starting up a new colony with these new additions.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: tarator on May 25, 2017, 08:19:43 AM
Okay, so you want me to leave the base and go on these quests, but I see some problems with that.

Should I bring 3 guys or 10? Some grade scale for the encounters would be helpful. Of course don't tell me the exact enemy force, but there must be some indication if it is a job for two naked guys with clubs or ten super soldiers. Mismatches are a huge waste of time. (Actually the loot may be a big clue to you, but you make the game. After 60 hours I still can't tell you the price of corn, much less the 500 variations of apparel).

Most importantly, if I gather a sizable force I'm leaving my colony extremely vulnerable. Raids are based on colony wealth (or so I hear) and that doesn't slump when people are away. And if my colony is so advanced that I can defend it with half my shooters, then at that point of the game there is no item a quest can offer that I need.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Jimyoda on May 25, 2017, 09:19:10 AM
Yes, people seem to keep repeating that wealth shoots up raid strength. Let's refer to this quote from the dev himself...
The idea that storytellers use only (or even primarily) wealth to determine how to scale threats is a myth.

The algorithm is quite a bit more complex than that and takes into account wealth, population, defensive strength, and several factors related to the time since the colony has taken damage, had people downed, or been at given population counts.

It would probably be a waste to spend a bunch of time trying to cheese wealth lower. Just enjoy the game.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: nccvoyager on May 25, 2017, 09:42:26 AM
Dang it Tynan.
Now I have to choose between starting an A17 RimWorld colony, or finishing The Witcher 3 GOTY...

(Seriously though, A17. Whoo!)
I'm not at home yet, so I can't really let you know how it performs on a (very) out of date system, but if I'm still getting an average of 20FPS then I'll say y'all have done great work on keeping the game optimized.
Unfortunately, with my lack of disposable income, whether or not the game runs at a decent speed is my most pressing concern.
That being said, I am looking forward to wasting-I mean, investing, a great deal of time into digging a base worthy of a dwarven king before most or all of my colonists are brutally slaughtered by gigantic insects.
Once again.

..Maybe twice.

(Ramblings of a madman ahead. You have been warned.)
Mind you that I have no clue how this would be implemented, and I am sure that it would not be particularly easy to put in place, but I had been toying with mentioning something I had thought of a while back.
I remember playing a game around a decade back which had a rather interesting option for reducing the performance impact of the game on struggling machines; a toggle for path-finding quality.
The toggle switched between precise or simple path-finding.
If you (Tynan) or another team member wished to create more precise path-finding in the base game, but are concerned about the performance impact, (which I believe has been mentioned a few times,) implementing such a toggle would allow for more precise path-finding to be added but without excluding systems that would be unable to perform well with a more precise system.

Admittedly, I could see this possibly creating some issues with bugs cropping up with one path-finding system and not the other.

In any case, it is of course up to y'all to decide if this interests you or not.
(Not posting as a suggestion as-is because it's just the ramblings of a sleep-deprived madman at the moment.)
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mrofa on May 25, 2017, 10:31:52 AM
Im kinda lost here, is there a reason why texture atlases ware changed in size ?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: makkenhoff on May 25, 2017, 10:35:08 AM
I love the roads, but I wish the colonists would use them more often. Works great on the worldmap for travel, but when the pawns have a path finding choice, they often end up taking unconventional routes that don't make use of my reasonably straight paths.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: killermen962 on May 25, 2017, 10:51:58 AM
"All pawns now have “head butt” attacks they can use if they’re missing all other attacking body parts."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4    ;D
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: MagnAxiom on May 25, 2017, 10:55:46 AM
Is there a way to get power lines across rivers/roads, etc?  Perhaps poles with aerial power lines?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: DariusWolfe on May 25, 2017, 11:57:55 AM
Raids are based on colony wealth (or so I hear) and that doesn't slump when people are away. And if my colony is so advanced that I can defend it with half my shooters, then at that point of the game there is no item a quest can offer that I need.

Even if the belief that colony wealth plays a part in raid strength is a myth (which the quote below suggests it's not; It just doesn't play a primary role), the point is still largely valid. If you send a significant force out, you're still leaving your colony vulnerable to a force that may still be too much for the remnants to handle, especially considering you're probably sending some of your best fighters either as a defensive force, or an assault force. Automated defenses that would mitigate this, also according to the quote, may also be enough to keep the raid strength to levels that your defenders may not be sufficient; And a fully automated defense situation, like tarator suggests, likely means that you're not in much need of the resources you'll get from caravanning.

TL;DR: I think having some slightly better options to help figure out how many colonists to send on a raid is a great idea; I also would like, as I suggested over the "Cheapest ideas" thread, some way to flee ambushes/manhunter packs while out on a caravan; These two things would help mitigate allow us to assess and plan for the risks of caravanning/raiding considerably, I think.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: TOWC on May 25, 2017, 12:36:51 PM
I noticed that bugs became pretty aggressive. It's like you shoot one of them and every single one of them will start chasing you through the whole map.

If you could easily cheese them in previous alphas, fighting with infestation now became so much harder, imho.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Penguinmanereikel on May 25, 2017, 01:46:31 PM
I knew that the new alpha would have had changes to the skill system and you couldn't just do a huge mining job with a weak miner, but now it's just ridiculous (Level 5 Mining takes more than day to mine out a 3x4 freezer). If I didn't find that empty inside the mountain when I was making my cave base, I don't think I'd have been able to carry on with this colony.

On a side note, the new alpha came the exact day I started my second colony since buying the game. Lol
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 25, 2017, 02:19:52 PM
Im kinda lost here, is there a reason why texture atlases ware changed in size ?

To solve the bug where at certain zoom levels you could see thin black lines between wall tiles (due to mipmapping).
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Ramsis on May 25, 2017, 02:29:35 PM
Can we get some cheers for Tynan for making the game a bit more difficult in the best of ways?

Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: milon on May 25, 2017, 02:35:48 PM
Reminder:

However, this thread is really feedback and discussion-focused. Other specific kinds of comments should go in the appropriate forums:

Suggestions should go in the Suggestions forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=6.0).
Bug reports should go in the Bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0).
Support requests should go in the Support forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=9.0).

Thanks all!

I've split one post off into a new Suggestions thread.  More will likely follow as off-topic posts are made.  ;)


Also, 4 cheers for Tynan!  :D  Alpha 17 is looking great so far!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mrofa on May 25, 2017, 03:21:10 PM
Im kinda lost here, is there a reason why texture atlases ware changed in size ?

To solve the bug where at certain zoom levels you could see thin black lines between wall tiles (due to mipmapping).

Ok thanks for replay
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ReZpawner on May 25, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
Can we get some cheers for Tynan for making the game a bit more difficult in the best of ways?

Why, do you think he feels insecure about making a best-selling game, being a published author and a millionaire? Not sure if a couple of huzza's from some random internet people is going to massively impact his day, but okay :P
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ITypedThis on May 25, 2017, 03:30:32 PM
Quote
Redesigned how capacities are calculated from body part efficiencies with an entirely new collection of algorithms, to stop various nonsensical cases and simplify how health conditions can affect the body.

I really like the idea behind this, but I'm not so sure I like the execution.

Engie, one of my favourite colonists, is now almost completely useless in my current save. She got punched in the eye by a boomrat, scratched on the arm by cougar, and landed with a stab scar on her foot. Because of these three scars she now has, she is in a constant state of "medium" pain, and therefore has a permanent state of weakened consciousness. She consistently fails tasks, and often has to repeat construction jobs two or three times. (Fails building wooden flooring tiles twice in a row with a construction skill of 15 and an alleged construction success chance of 92%.)

When she gets food poisoning she basically becomes both mentally and physically handicapped, as her consciousness drops down to "poor." Engie crawls at a snails pace, can only hold half a stack of anything, and is effectively entirely unskilled at everything. She's almost completely useless because of a few unlucky injuries.

Ultimately I think this ties in to how scar in RimWorld are treated in general. Personally, I have a large surgical scar on my right upper thigh. The initial wound was quite damaging, and the scar still hurts on contact and occasionally aches. However, while uncomfortable the pain does not impede my ability to think and function, work with my hands, mind, or even the leg it occupies.

I have a rare musculoskeletal disease call Mc'Ardle's Disease. To put to bluntly, it makes life intensely painful when doing anything even remotely physical. While the pain is much more than enough to prevent me from doing many physical tasks, it does not impede my mental capabilities in any way. At the absolute worst possible amount of pain it has ever caused me, either directly or indirectly, I have been too distracted and distraught to perform complex thoughts or mental processes. At this point however I would be physically incapable of completing the tasks my poor colonists set off to do every single day.

Basically what I mean to say is that pain and especially scars have too high of an impact on a pawn's heath, consciousness, and general work capabilities; This seems to have a much greater impact this alpha than ever before. Comparatively, real-life consciousness is not weakened by large amounts of physical pain, only when in very large/exceptional to extreme amounts. The medical system is unrealistic in this regard and does not compare to the rest of the game where injuries, death, and illness will occur. All in my own opinion of course.

Side note: Love the new roads.  :P
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: DariusWolfe on May 25, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Agree that scars/pain are a bit overblown. I once helped someone change a tire on the side of the road. A one-armed dude had also stopped (luckily, because he had more tools than I did) and despite being (at that time) a young, able-bodied Soldier, I honestly think the guy did more of the work than I did.

Losing an arm, having some scars will obviously impair your performance, but once you've healed and learned to cope with your handicaps, it's not uncommon for even badly injured people to have nearly normal levels of functionality; They just have to work a little harder to get there.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: deshara218 on May 25, 2017, 04:09:48 PM
some feedback; cobra shows up and attacks roosters, my colonist goes to kill it with her rifle, walks up to point blank range to start aiming and the cobra turns and attacks her. She eventually beats it to death, goes berserk from the pain of the bites, goes out and fights a raccoon, gets mauled some more, and while she's beating the raccoon to death she develops an infection from the cobra, snaps out of the mental break, I order her to go self-tend, she sits and patches up minor scratches (was never in danger of bleeding to death) until she collapses from the infection and dies.
Six hour play session, ended with 0 possibility to intervene.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Ardshael on May 25, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
Firstly, I'm liking a lot of the changes you've made Tynan.

I'm several hours into my 2nd playthrough (Cassandra, Intense, Permadeath) on A17. RIP to my first colony. They didn't stand a chance with 6 colonists. 2 of which were non-violent and 1 had his spine shattered early. Using EPOE on this playthrough and loving that mod.

Anyways, I've had some thoughts and feedback from what I see so far.

- The roads making traveling MUCH more viable and forming caravans are much better as well. At least now it's actually an option to traverse the landscape to the escape ship. I'm visiting nearby factions way more frequently as well. I like it.

- Zzzts - This even is my biggest frustration. I feel like this event occurs way too often. I think I've had it about once per season. It's very annoying and I feel like the frequency doesn't improve the game.

- Outpost and Items Events - It seems like these events occur more frequently at the start of the colony and less often as the colony grows. With that said, I haven't cleared an outpost yet so I'm not sure if there's a formula that maxes out how many outposts pop up.

- Rivers - they are a nice addition and I look forward to them being expanded upon. They feel like they are more aesthetic at the moment. Perhaps the land near water should be rich soil. Or the soil has a higher probability of being rich soil.

- I've really noticed a reworking of the economy (i.e. prices for selling items). Making money is definitely more difficult. Farming and sell extra food, hops, etc seems to be the best route to making money now.

-- With the reworking, I feel like Thrumbo horns aren't worth as much so for the events where that's the payment for completion, I'm less inclined to complete them. I may change my mind about the horns though.

-- Requesting caravans doesn't give much of a payoff now that they are much more expensive to request. Whereas before I would frequently request traders. I feel like a reduction from 1100 to 1000 or maybe 950 would be more viable.

-- Perhaps it's just this game but I've noticed caravans and factions have a lot more components. In past alphas I've always been painfully starved for components. I like this change (if it was a change).

-- Overall, I like the economy is better now. It's not as easy to become rich.

352 hours of play and I'm still enjoying the game. Keep up the great work Tynan and team. Thanks.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: makkenhoff on May 26, 2017, 12:07:51 AM
@ITypedThis

You can remove damaged parts as a trade off - more consciousness for less physical ability - might use drugs to dull the pain briefly for those important tasks, I know I use go-juice and wake-up in my games - though sometimes it does backfire on me. You might be able to peg leg her, or go bionic in later stages; assuming you've got a good enough doctor and medicines. Usually I can find a town or two that has what I need - though I have to admit preparing expeditions is more challenging in A17.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ITypedThis on May 26, 2017, 01:01:53 AM
@ITypedThis

You can remove damaged parts as a trade off - more consciousness for less physical ability - might use drugs to dull the pain briefly for those important tasks, I know I use go-juice and wake-up in my games - though sometimes it does backfire on me. You might be able to peg leg her, or go bionic in later stages; assuming you've got a good enough doctor and medicines. Usually I can find a town or two that has what I need - though I have to admit preparing expeditions is more challenging in A17.

I think it's telling that it is a realistic option to just entirely remove a limb because of a small scar. :P

That's a decent idea though. The colony is still very young, so I don't have a hope for proper hospital and three bionic implants, nor to have a steady supply of drugs to fuel her every waking moment. (Plus extra bionics for whatever else must be replaced by the time I can reasonably acquire them.) Currently I've just shoved her into a cryopod for long-term storage, because she can't do anything useful and just eats without working for it. As a bonus I'm recruiting the pod's former occupant to replace her. ;)

The fact that I actively chose to put my favourite colonist on ice for who knows how long just because she got a few unlucky hits is just unfun. Frustrating to watch her fail everything and produce terrible goods because of so little.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Neotic on May 26, 2017, 02:14:12 AM
I just realized this was announcing that A17 was released i thought the was on the road to release
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: MadsMartinMadsen on May 26, 2017, 02:37:04 AM
Liking A17 very must so far, on vacation so dont have time to play as much as I would like.

I am sure I cant be the only one but the rivers and creeks make me think watermills  ;D

Thanks for yet another great update to all of the people working hard on Rimworld!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: taha on May 26, 2017, 01:17:42 PM
No. No cheers for him.

Besides the long time between updates - the amount of time seem to increase directly proportional with the game sales - most of the vet players concerns were graciously ignored.

End game content, mood balancing, late game performance, useful mid / end game skills, etc were legit concerns, and were expressed more than once on forums. The only thing Tynan actually did, was the ability to self treat (there was a mod for it anyway).

It's obvious I'm displeased. You, guys, will be too, once the shine of the new update wears off.

Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mumblemumble on May 26, 2017, 01:51:45 PM
I expect there may be another mini update which provides more balancing, but this is how tynan has done it - mini, concentrated updates on a few speciic things, to make sure the update is not a huge mess, while also fixing older issues.

Wanderlust update was huge, and needed lots of work, which a17 is bringing

this has pretty much been the theme forever : new features are added, and possibly have new, or more noticed imbalances, and next updates add new things, while fixing previous imbalances.

EDIT : Really should make bruises not use meds to treat. This has been mentioned before, and I kinda chuckled seeing yetis first a17 episode, where he mentioned this too..
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 26, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
taha, have you tried playing a really long game? Late game performance should be very much improved. Not to mention things like map gen speed are a lot faster now too (go ahead and measure it). We put a lot of time into all of this.

Mood balancing - I haven't heard any specific consistent complaints about this so I don't know what you're referring to. (Though some aspects of mood were rebalanced anyway.) There's no thread with the word 'mood' in the title in the first 3 pages of the Suggestions forum. I'd be interested in a link to what you're talking about.

End game content - We added a bunch of work quest stuff, but yeah, that's the midgame. One step at a time. Can't do everything at once. A17 was a refinement update with some content bits added in. It was really more about the 500+ bugs fixed and dozens of systems rebalanced than new content.

Useful mid/endgame skills - Not sure what this refers to. However, you'll note that Research was redesigned as Intellectual, and is used to make advanced drugs, taking the skill from endgame-useless to endgame-useful. So now all skills should be useful in the endgame.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ReZpawner on May 26, 2017, 04:19:19 PM
Talk about killing the buzz.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: kenmtraveller on May 26, 2017, 05:10:41 PM
Speaking as a software developer, I think anyone who thinks this isn't a lot of content for an update is out of their mind.  I think people who aren't programmers often grossly underestimate the amount of work required to do feature development in a way that doesn't break what is already there.  And the bigger your code base gets, the more work is involved in 'not breaking what is already there'.

A lot of what went into this update is foundation for what can come in the future.  There's no skipping that work, even though it doesn't provide you with anything new to play with.  Think of the new quests as the beginning, and as a framework for modders, not an end state.

And, from what I can tell A16 was the biggest update in a long time, and in truth it had a lot of bugs, because it was extremely ambitious in scope.  It's natural for the next update to be more about refinement and bug fixing.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ShadowTani on May 26, 2017, 07:00:38 PM
Besides the long time between updates - the amount of time seem to increase directly proportional with the game sales

Take note that A17 is two alphas in one. We had a vote on the forum if we wanted A17 to be released as a pure polish update, or wait until there were additional content as well; people voted in favor of waiting it out. As such A18 might not take as long since the amount of necessary polish have been taken care of; though the need for it will always pile up with every new update, so think of those as "leap year" updates.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Panzer on May 26, 2017, 07:25:30 PM
Speaking as a software developer, I think anyone who thinks this isn't a lot of content for an update is out of their mind.  I think people who aren't programmers often grossly underestimate the amount of work required to do feature development in a way that doesn't break what is already there.  And the bigger your code base gets, the more work is involved in 'not breaking what is already there'.

This. When I saw how enemy bases were generated in the A17 introduction video I thought 'holy shit, that must ve been so much work'. I really like how much thought is put into the features and implementation, I ve seen quite the opposite in a lot of other games.
Loving the new features so far, the hit & shooting rebalance turned this into a bit of a maim fest, the percentage of completely healthy pawns in my colony is quite low ;D but a missing hand or eye doesnt seem to have that much of an impact on performance anymore. Still havent played enough to give more solid feedback, but will do so in a few days :)
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Shurp on May 26, 2017, 11:03:01 PM
The fact that I actively chose to put my favourite colonist on ice for who knows how long just because she got a few unlucky hits is just unfun. Frustrating to watch her fail everything and produce terrible goods because of so little.

Devmode, replace torso.

It's not cheating if it makes the game more fun.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Razzoriel on May 26, 2017, 11:45:16 PM
Just a heads-up: you guys might want to change the version history text to add that limbs and organs' coverage was increased (as in, they will get attacked more often).

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32898.0
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: nccvoyager on May 26, 2017, 11:55:57 PM
So, took a look at A17 for around 15 minutes when I got home today before I came back to town to do a few things.
Performance seemed okay, still holding around 25FPS on my toaster.
(Actually, it runs around 65C in the tower, so I think I could technically cook something in it.)
Liking it so far.
Tynan and ison (and any other team members, though I apologize I can't remember y'all,) I congratulate you on this great release.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: jamaicancastle on May 27, 2017, 08:17:43 AM
Is it intended that a colonist with the Wimp trait is completely sidelined by pain from diseases, in this case Fibrous Mechanites? Normally Wimp would be a minor annoyance (this pawn can't even fight in the first place), and the mechanites are a mixed blessing, but combine them and he literally just spent 25 consecutive days totally bed-ridden... which actually made it much more debilitating than the lethal diseases I've encountered this game.

This was on the slightly-easier-than-normal Cassandra, incidentally, not that it makes much difference.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 27, 2017, 01:51:09 PM
Is it intended that a colonist with the Wimp trait is completely sidelined by pain from diseases, in this case Fibrous Mechanites? Normally Wimp would be a minor annoyance (this pawn can't even fight in the first place), and the mechanites are a mixed blessing, but combine them and he literally just spent 25 consecutive days totally bed-ridden... which actually made it much more debilitating than the lethal diseases I've encountered this game.

This was on the slightly-easier-than-normal Cassandra, incidentally, not that it makes much difference.

Sounds like an interesting game system interaction. What a wimp!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: mumblemumble on May 27, 2017, 02:14:39 PM
Well, you could hop the guy up on drugs, right?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Aerial on May 27, 2017, 08:08:58 PM
Just had a very frustrating situation:  A17, Cassandra Rough, no mods.

A raid launched, of the "they're going to prepare a while and then attack" variety.  So, while they milled about on the far edge of the map, the message that friendlies were arriving to help flashed and a huge troupe of fighters from one of my allies appeared and marched over to my base.

"Wonderful!" I thought, since I only have two colonists who can fight.  So I sent those two colonists to essentially hide out behind the big group of friendlies and wait for the tribal raid to smash into them.  Then they could move in to support however made sense.

Eventually, the tribespeople start their raid.  Except, the friendlies *completely ignored them*.  The tribespeople didn't attack them and they didn't attack the raiders. So the raid nearly massacred my entire colony because the friendlies that moved in to help didn't.  I would have set up very differently had my colonists been on their own and probably would have weathered the raid better if the friendlies hadn't arrived.

My question is whether this situation is supposed to be able to happen?  It turns out the raiders and the friendlies belong to factions that aren't enemies of each other.  Does that mean they wouldn't fight, then?  Do I need to check factions whenever friendlies show up to "help"?

If so, it seems like there should be a tooltip or something (at least the first time) to let players know they need to check the factions tab before believing that the "friendlies are moving in to help" message is real.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Bozobub on May 27, 2017, 08:51:11 PM
Is it intended that a colonist with the Wimp trait is completely sidelined by pain from diseases, in this case Fibrous Mechanites? Normally Wimp would be a minor annoyance (this pawn can't even fight in the first place), and the mechanites are a mixed blessing, but combine them and he literally just spent 25 consecutive days totally bed-ridden... which actually made it much more debilitating than the lethal diseases I've encountered this game.

This was on the slightly-easier-than-normal Cassandra, incidentally, not that it makes much difference.

Sounds like an interesting game system interaction. What a wimp!
Sounds more like a completely useless pawn.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: MarvinKosh on May 27, 2017, 09:12:47 PM
Peaceful difficulty: You still get caravan ambushes.

Might as well call it 'Kinda peaceful, but not really.' ;)
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: OFWG on May 27, 2017, 09:46:44 PM
(the wimp) spent 25 consecutive days totally bed-ridden... which actually made it much more debilitating than the lethal diseases I've encountered this game.
Sounds like an interesting game system interaction. What a wimp!
Sounds more like a completely useless pawn.

The same thing said 3 different ways :D
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: brimstone1x on May 28, 2017, 12:12:14 AM
"Manhunter pack incident can now use any kind of animal"

What was the motivation behind this decision? Does this include swarms of snow hares?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: hoffmale on May 28, 2017, 12:29:54 AM
Just tested: A colonist with trait wimp and some scars (>15% pain in total) is basically dead.

If you start the game with such a pawn, he can actually do stuff - until he gets his first additional source of pain (e.g. a squirrel bite). Just receiving it triggers the wimp trait (as expected), but since you won't get below 15% pain even after that additional source of pain is completely healed, the wimp will stay triggered forever (well, unless you get lucky with luciferium). He will only survive by other people force feeding him.

This might make for some really hard challenges ("play this without taking any damage ever"), but if this is your starting pawn in a rich explorer scenario (because you didn't know or didn't realize the implications of the combination wimp + scars), you can basically forget about playing that game...

Petition: for starting pawns, please set wimp to ignore the pain from its starting scars (one could set the pain threshold of wimp to sum of scar pains plus 1% if sum of scar pains >= 15%) or force the default character generation to not give him scars with a sum greater or equal to 15% pain, as starting with such a pawn really is no fun.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: username2 on May 28, 2017, 03:58:32 AM
playing ALOT of a17 and the missions are a real sore point for me right now.
If I'm going to get so many missions in the first 2 years, then give me muffalos in the beginning of my tribal start and drop pods for crashlanded.

I just feel so stupid because I can never reach the point in my progress of actually sending out a mission and I dont like that..

Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: hoffmale on May 28, 2017, 07:43:03 AM
Some feedback on A17:

The good stuff:

The bad stuff:

I know you've done a great job so far, and that this update was a big amount of work, but in some aspects (e.g. options 1 and 2 of "the bad ones") it just feels like A17 was released in a halfhearted state.

Funny trivia: I got a kind, abrasive wimp named Val in one game, and he got into a social fight after insulting another colonist while eating. I wonder what he said? "Pass me the salt, you gorgeous fluffy bunny?"
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Dr. Z on May 28, 2017, 08:56:57 AM
Quote
All pawns now have “head butt” attacks they can use if they’re missing all other attacking body parts.

If anyone ever asks you whats RimWorld like, just tell them this was necessary.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: jamaicancastle on May 28, 2017, 12:35:31 PM
Is it intended that a colonist with the Wimp trait is completely sidelined by pain from diseases, in this case Fibrous Mechanites? Normally Wimp would be a minor annoyance (this pawn can't even fight in the first place), and the mechanites are a mixed blessing, but combine them and he literally just spent 25 consecutive days totally bed-ridden... which actually made it much more debilitating than the lethal diseases I've encountered this game.

This was on the slightly-easier-than-normal Cassandra, incidentally, not that it makes much difference.

Sounds like an interesting game system interaction. What a wimp!
Sounds more like a completely useless pawn.
I don't know that I would call it interesting. I had enough other colonists that it wasn't critical, I would just glance over ever now and then and yup, he's still bedridden.

From an emergent system interaction standpoint, it's kind of neat, and from a story standpoint, it kind of makes sense, but from an actual gameplay standpoint it was really very dull and uninteresting.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: hoffmale on May 28, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
Is it intended that a colonist with the Wimp trait is completely sidelined by pain from diseases, in this case Fibrous Mechanites? Normally Wimp would be a minor annoyance (this pawn can't even fight in the first place), and the mechanites are a mixed blessing, but combine them and he literally just spent 25 consecutive days totally bed-ridden... which actually made it much more debilitating than the lethal diseases I've encountered this game.

This was on the slightly-easier-than-normal Cassandra, incidentally, not that it makes much difference.

Sounds like an interesting game system interaction. What a wimp!
Sounds more like a completely useless pawn.
I don't know that I would call it interesting. I had enough other colonists that it wasn't critical, I would just glance over ever now and then and yup, he's still bedridden.

From an emergent system interaction standpoint, it's kind of neat, and from a story standpoint, it kind of makes sense, but from an actual gameplay standpoint it was really very dull and uninteresting.

Well, ...
Wimp plus short term pain is ok - it's what the trait should do.
Wimp plus long term pain can be a pita - but it can still be worked around, which makes it a somewhat questionable, but bearable.
Wimp plus permanent pain is just bullshit - yes, you could hope for a lucky luciferium trigger, but otherwise that colonist is worse than dead.

Ok, you can disable the trait with a painstopper - but try getting that one when you need it.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ReZpawner on May 28, 2017, 02:35:24 PM
Quote
All pawns now have “head butt” attacks they can use if they’re missing all other attacking body parts.

That's a terrible design decission. Why on earth didn't they go with "bite", so we could re-enact the scene from Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: shentino on May 28, 2017, 02:54:54 PM
I'm not seeing alpha17 listed in the betas on steam...
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ReZpawner on May 28, 2017, 02:59:56 PM
It's no longer in the beta section on Steam. If you want to play A17, just go with "NONE - Opt out of all beta programs" in the settings. The unstable testing finished a few days ago, and the latest version is now live.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Panzer on May 28, 2017, 03:01:08 PM
That's a terrible design decission. Why on earth didn't they go with "bite", so we could re-enact the scene from Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail?

I think it is already pretty monty python-ish. Do you see that guy biting? Me neither ;D

(https://media.giphy.com/media/10M2ZnecwCMVGg/giphy.gif)

I'm not seeing alpha17 listed in the betas on steam...

The main game updates automatically to A17, the beta branches are for people who want to stay on older upates to finish old savegames.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: ReZpawner on May 28, 2017, 03:06:58 PM
That's a terrible design decission. Why on earth didn't they go with "bite", so we could re-enact the scene from Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail?

I think it is already pretty monty python-ish. Do you see that guy biting? Me neither ;D

(https://media.giphy.com/media/10M2ZnecwCMVGg/giphy.gif)

I'm not seeing alpha17 listed in the betas on steam...

The main game updates automatically to A17, the beta branches are for people who want to stay on older upates to finish old savegames.

Of course he's not biting - he still have one of his legs left!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Dashthechinchilla on May 28, 2017, 03:38:29 PM
Definitely enjoying the update. I am going to have to dial down the difficulty down a notch
 Aparently my skillz relied to heavily on cheese tactics. I do fine on rough until the raiders start bringing all guns, and then I usually get wasted in that fight. It is frustrating for long term combat that someone seems to lose a body part every fight.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: theapolaustic1 on May 28, 2017, 09:31:17 PM
Am I correct in assuming that manhunting pack numbers are scaled according to at least their size, or their attack power? It seems something along that line, but not sure as it could just be a coincidence of Randy being random or my memory not being too good. But either way, oh boy, the faster smaller animals are WAY more devastating than the slow large ones when they arrive in a huge zerg that my colonists can't run away from (especially true when not on base), lol. Just thought I'd throw that out here since we where on the subject of manhunting animals. xD It makes it a nice two in one event, where one with large slow animals = free meat and leather event / while one with small fast animals = hide or get ganked event, or dwarf fortress level of FUN if you like xD

My thoughts on how to deal with this (haven't experienced it so just ideas): Forced-target with auto turrets individually, they'll die in the explosion when they horde on top of them.

Alternatively you could possibly handle them with a molotov, assuming your base doesn't go up in flames it might work? Depends on the situation.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: SpaceDorf on May 30, 2017, 02:18:50 PM
I have to praise the Quadrums and their weird names.

They feel just outlandish and weird enough to fit the space-future setting and still recognizable enough to know humans made something old to fit completely different circumstances. Also it is no longer dependant on seasons .. the anouncement it is now summer in the midst of decembary first threw me off, then I thought .. "southern hemisphere" soooo coool.

It is just one tiny bit of fluff that made the game better as a whole. At least for me.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: porcupine on May 31, 2017, 12:53:33 AM
I'm a little disappointed I didn't get an automated email of this release (sendowl/ludeon/what have you).  Only saw that A17 came out, because of a thread I had subscribed to (which was long dead) seeing revival....

Something wrong with Sendowl???
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Tynan on May 31, 2017, 01:33:51 AM
Something wrong with Sendowl???

Yeah, something went wrong.

EDIT: I've informed SO, they are looking into it.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: East on May 31, 2017, 03:26:03 AM
It 's strange to fight with one leg. If the person's legs are gone and the battle is too easy, raise the pawn's leg HP.

And if I am lost in both arms, I will run away with fear.

Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: SpaceDorf on May 31, 2017, 07:01:45 AM
It 's strange to fight with one leg. If the person's legs are gone and the battle is too easy, raise the pawn's leg HP.

And if I am lost in both arms, I will run away with fear.

You mean connecting the movement to body weight ?
Less weight means faster movement :-D
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: kenmtraveller on May 31, 2017, 02:01:28 PM
It 's strange to fight with one leg. If the person's legs are gone and the battle is too easy, raise the pawn's leg HP.

And if I am lost in both arms, I will run away with fear.

I agree, I don't think the penalties to movement for missing a leg are nearly large enough.  I get that people can crawl, but in my last game my one legged guy remained one of my best fighters, even before I got him a peg leg.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Mkok on June 01, 2017, 03:18:47 PM
is it just me, or did scythers get an race-car upgrade? I just opened an ancient ruin deep in the mountain, and those scythers raced to melee my pawns faster then I could say "thx cass"  :D
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 02, 2017, 01:20:54 AM
Hey @Tynan, loving the new update, though I did find an issue that needs tuning:

The quest where a settlement asks for food is not the most intuitive. I had a settlement ask for 2000 Corn, I had them so I sent it via drop pod. The game says "resources lost due to being no Colonist on tile".

As you know, when you land on a tile, there is the "Complete Trade Deal" button. Which means that if you want to complete the quest, you need to fly your Colonist to the settlement tile, then send the food which means all 2k corn is on that tile, THEN press "Complete Trade Deal". I feel I shouldn't need to send said Colonist, and that sending 2000 corn should be sufficient enough.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: tpudlik on June 03, 2017, 02:14:29 PM
the anouncement it is now summer in the midst of decembary first threw me off, then I thought .. "southern hemisphere" soooo coool.

But the update notes state that,

Quote
Seasons are now arbitrary “quadrums” which cover 1/4 of the year and are the same on the whole planet.

So, is it the warm season on the northern hemisphere when it's the cold season on the sourthern (as on Earth)?  Or is it the cold season in the south when it's cold in the north?  The update notes make it sound like it's the latter, but @SpaceDorf's comment suggests it's the former.

I do hope it's the former, of course!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: SpaceDorf on June 03, 2017, 04:03:55 PM
the anouncement it is now summer in the midst of decembary first threw me off, then I thought .. "southern hemisphere" soooo coool.
But the update notes state that,
Quote
Maybe, I remember reading the notes, but noticing something like that in game is still something different than having read about it.

Seasons are now arbitrary “quadrums” which cover 1/4 of the year and are the same on the whole planet.

I do hope it's the former, of course!

I am playing on the southern hemisphere right now ( new game, so I know for sure ) and it's Summer in the midst of Decembary
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Angiel on June 03, 2017, 06:32:29 PM
Hello,
well i guess the only thing that still bothers me about the game is the berserk/daze incidents they happen too often, there shld be a cooldown to them so that after a berserk incident doesn't happen to the same pawn over and over again.
I started a brand new colony with the latest fix from 2nd June.
Casandra rough normal crashland scenario.
in 1h gameplay, 11 days my colonists went berserk for like 7 or 8 times.
They are starving there is a heat wave and i want to make them hunt for food but i can't cuz one of my colonists went berserk i knocked him down then my hunter went berserk knocked him down, they got up the first guy went again berserk, i had a prisoner that went berserk 3 times since i had him, now i had a wanderer join so happy was i but he got incapacitated cuz a raid happened right after and they crossed paths, i have 2 incapacitated berserked ppl and 2 ppl to defend a raid hmm and both of them are bruised because of the berserkers and starving and having heatstroke, so bye bye new colony.
How are you supposed to handle these stuff am i really doing something wrong or is just the chance of getting berserk has been increased,
I think the mood system really needs more thinking done to it. especially after a raid when you need your ppl to be focused and on call.
After a raid i have always someone who is going berserk or on daze. no matter how good their mood was before he is getting downright pissed cuz of dirty/awful environment cuz of blood and then seen corpses etc. seriously you just won a freaking raid there is going to be gore everywhere the game doesn't let me magically clean everything in one sweep motion does it?
@Tynan i don't play with kill boxes, but lately it makes it impossible not to play with them. you want ppl not to use them well here are some of the reasons why ppl use them, cuz one it doesn't get your base dirty and  second your pawns don't see the dead bodies that often to get into berserk mode.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Cimanyd on June 03, 2017, 11:08:28 PM
there shld be a cooldown to them so that after a berserk incident doesn't happen to the same pawn over and over again.

There is; it's called Catharsis.

Keep an eye on your colonists' moods. If they're low enough for your colonists to go berserk, you're doing something wrong. In the case you describe, the problem is your colonists were starving. Starving is a huge hit to mood and running out of food should be avoided at all costs. The game will warn you on the right if a colonist has low enough mood to mental break, and also if you're low on food.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Stormfox on June 04, 2017, 10:17:52 AM
there shld be a cooldown to them so that after a berserk incident doesn't happen to the same pawn over and over again.

There is; it's called Catharsis.

Keep an eye on your colonists' moods. If they're low enough for your colonists to go berserk, you're doing something wrong. In the case you describe, the problem is your colonists were starving. Starving is a huge hit to mood and running out of food should be avoided at all costs. The game will warn you on the right if a colonist has low enough mood to mental break, and also if you're low on food.

One problem that has been reported for months and still not been fixed with that is the people go on mental breaks for AGES. And during that time, they neglect sleep and eating. This tends to end with the pawn in question collapsing and/or having huge mood debuffs afterwards that re-start the break spiral right again.

This even happens in otherwise well-developed colonies, when the initial mental break happens on someone with some bad mood trait that just got a divorce or something. This can be enough to shoot them into a break once, and after that, they are a case for the couch for the next half year or so.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 05, 2017, 02:24:06 PM
A note on catharsis: It only happens if the pawn ends their mental break on their own. If it's interrupted with an arrest, they will never get the catharsis effect.

Regarding colonists collapsing due to exhaustion during a mental break; It seems really odd to me that this doesn't automatically end the mental break. I had a colonist (who I stupidly brought along though he was still going through Yayo Withdrawals) during an item-cache raid who went on a sad wander; I managed to deal with the cache while he was wandering, though it was a big pain in the ass to try to keep him out of the turret radii. Then he collapsed, while my colonists were bedding down, he woke up later, and continued to wander.

At the very least, a broke colonist who collapses should be allowed to be rescued to bed, and cared for like an injured colonist.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: corestandeven on June 05, 2017, 02:54:36 PM
Hello,
well i guess the only thing that still bothers me about the game is the berserk/daze incidents they happen too often, there shld be a cooldown to them so that after a berserk incident doesn't happen to the same pawn over and over again.
I started a brand new colony with the latest fix from 2nd June.
Casandra rough normal crashland scenario.
in 1h gameplay, 11 days my colonists went berserk for like 7 or 8 times.
They are starving there is a heat wave and i want to make them hunt for food but i can't cuz one of my colonists went berserk i knocked him down then my hunter went berserk knocked him down, they got up the first guy went again berserk, i had a prisoner that went berserk 3 times since i had him, now i had a wanderer join so happy was i but he got incapacitated cuz a raid happened right after and they crossed paths, i have 2 incapacitated berserked ppl and 2 ppl to defend a raid hmm and both of them are bruised because of the berserkers and starving and having heatstroke, so bye bye new colony.
How are you supposed to handle these stuff am i really doing something wrong or is just the chance of getting berserk has been increased,
I think the mood system really needs more thinking done to it. especially after a raid when you need your ppl to be focused and on call.
After a raid i have always someone who is going berserk or on daze. no matter how good their mood was before he is getting downright pissed cuz of dirty/awful environment cuz of blood and then seen corpses etc. seriously you just won a freaking raid there is going to be gore everywhere the game doesn't let me magically clean everything in one sweep motion does it?
@Tynan i don't play with kill boxes, but lately it makes it impossible not to play with them. you want ppl not to use them well here are some of the reasons why ppl use them, cuz one it doesn't get your base dirty and  second your pawns don't see the dead bodies that often to get into berserk mode.

Agree, the mental breakdown happens much more often and lasts ages too. I had a pawn break for two days because he was 'sad'. He didn't eat, so had minor malnutrition, was attacked by a spider and did nothing to fend it off, then collapsed with exhaustion a few hours later.
I then had another pawn ill with a disease so had to put her in my medical bay. Before my doctor came to give her medicine to fight infection she broke because she was 'ill', got out of bed, and I couldnt treat her. She died of the infection because the daze went on again over 2 days and I could administer the drugs.

I agree some mental break downs mean you act irrationally to the detriment of your physical health, but this is stupid. I think the game should split between minor mental and major breaks, with minor breaks only being an inconvenience for a few hours – not days on end. 
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Ironvos on June 05, 2017, 05:03:18 PM
The whole joy/mood/social system with it's inevitable mental breaks is one of the reasons i don't play the newer alphas anymore.
It mostly becomes a frustrating ordeal rather than an enjoyable experience, it's just not properly balanced and imo doesn't work within the current confines of the game.
In the past (pre A10) your colonists used to be a means to an end, the goal was to build up a colony. Nowadays the colonists seem to be the focus and the colony is just there to cater for them and keep them happy.
So i've basically gone back to playing Alpha 8 which imo was the last flawless release, playing with my own mod and some mods i still had or found on the forums and so far i had fun like i had in the old days.
Apart from game optimization and some quality of life tweaks (like self tending or AI pathfinding) i honestly can't say the game introduced anything of worth in the last two years. Animal breeding might be the only thing i miss when going back to A8 but it's not vital.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Limdood on June 05, 2017, 05:19:18 PM
I'll admit it is really annoying to work really hard to keep colonists in great spirits, with nice bedrooms, dining rooms, rec rooms, fine meals, plenty of sleep and joy time, and then see "Major break Risk" in red.

You get confused, then select the colonist, check needs, and see "rebuffed by Engie x3" "rebuffed by Tail" and "rebuffed by Jade x2" and then the colonist breaks.  And there is literally nothing you could have done to prevent is, since there was no previous bad relationship between them.

Of all the factors though, social is really the only one i get annoyed with as being unfair (and permanent pain, to a lesser degree) due to being out of my control.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 05, 2017, 06:34:59 PM
In contrast to the above posters, I would not have picked up this game without the social system. It's flawed and frustrating as often as not, but without it, the game would lack a lot of color and feeling. I checked the game out in earlier iterations, and aside from the UI being confusing, the game simply didn't grab me like it did when I tried it again, after the social system was implemented.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: TheMrMoMo on June 06, 2017, 11:09:45 AM
Not absolutely sure that this is new but I never noticed it before.

I just noticed that there is a new negative opinion called: "Killed colony animal" which has an impact of -5.
I find this new opinion really confusing if not outright stupid. All of my colonists eat Meat on a daily basis, so why is there a reason to look down on the person that kills the chickens?

People in real life aren't contempt of butchers either. I'd understand it if there were a Vegan trait or something, but there isn't. Even if this negative Opinion would only apply to non-farm type animals like dogs I'd still think it is stupid. If I were to sell the animals instead of culling the herd I'd loose out on as  I'd get meat and fur more valuable then the sell price. So having the people that take care of all animal related things be hated just because they also do the dirty duty of keeping the numbers in check is quite illogical. And nobody has a problem with eating a fine meal made with Husky meat. After all, no colony can feed an endlessly multiplying herd of animals.

I'd be really happy if someone could at least give me a logical explanation on why this opinion exists.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: kenmtraveller on June 06, 2017, 12:15:15 PM
I agree, if that negative opinion applies to non pets and it's applicable to all pawns it seems wierd.  People who live on farms expect the animals to be killed.  Are you sure the person with the negative opinion wasn't Incapable of Violence or something?  It might be restricted to pawns with certain traits, that would make sense to me.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Limdood on June 06, 2017, 12:46:11 PM
it is not new, it does apply to all animals, not just bonded animals.

There is a (cheesy) workaround.  If you have a freezer which is too cold for animals to survive, you can stick them in a 1x1 animal zone in there.  They will die reasonably quickly, but will lose several body parts to frostbite.  Alternatively, if you don't need a FAST infusion of meat and are just trying to keep a steady stream of animal meat, you can assign the animals to a 1x1 zone with no food in or adjacent to it and let the animals starve...no lost body parts, but much slower.

At least the "harmed/killed" colony animal social penalty doesn't stack.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: TheMrMoMo on June 06, 2017, 12:48:23 PM
I am sure that it is not because of a trait. I have two people that take care of animal related things and all of the colonists have that negative opinion about them, they even think that about each other.

In the long term this might lead to ostracize the animal handlers and constant fights.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Deoeffect on June 06, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
YOU ARE THE BEST
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: porcupine on June 06, 2017, 06:09:27 PM
YOU ARE THE BEST

Who are you referring to?
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: dershamc903 on June 06, 2017, 06:24:39 PM
Does anyone know if you kill all the bases for a Faction if Faction raids from that Faction stop happening?

I lucked out on my map in that the space ship to leave the game event is actually in Temperate terrain, just on the eastern side of the map where I had settled on the western side. So I'm travelling along with my pawns, attacking every Tribal base along the way and I just wondered if I destroyed them all if that meant the Tribal's as a faction would no longer exist.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Panzer on June 07, 2017, 10:41:06 AM
Does anyone know if you kill all the bases for a Faction if Faction raids from that Faction stop happening?

If you destroy all the faction bases, you wipe that faction off the map, see the attached screenshot. It is also noted in the faction tab in the world map.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Panzer on June 07, 2017, 01:27:12 PM
So, I have been playing quite a bit to give some more feedback. I played 3 colonies with randy random on intense difficulty, 2 short lived ones and one very successful one, about 3 years.

Concerning the storyteller, after 2 years playtime it seems like you dont get as many events as in the first 2 years and thats a bit boring, I added a raid every 6 days for that reason. Randy also seems to be able to fire events at day 1, which I am not a fan of, I got day 1 gut worms as well as a day 2 heat wave that caught me by surprise and ended a run.

The roads and rivers are a really nice addition, roads are super useful and rivers are nice to look at, they dont serve any other purpose right now ;D The water graphics are more subtle now and less distracting.

I like the changes to the skills, low skilled and high skilled work is very noticeable now, as well with shooting, high skilled pawns are very accurate.
I feel like the melee skill dodge chance could be increased a bit more, it is barely noticeable and once your pawn gets hit in the leg it is over with dodging anyways. Melee skill gain could also be increased more, before personal shields melee is tricky to use and I rarely use it, maybe an ambush style to bind enemy shooters. After personal shields melee becomes more viable, but it is still very hard to level someone past lvl 12-13 or keep a high lvl melee fighter at his level.

The changes to the health system are nice, the impact of conciousness on everything and vice versa is pretty cool, also the information listing is better and more clear. Infections are very manageable except for liver or kidney infection, those are a death sentence and require amputation or a new part.
Due to the increased accuracy and increased body part coverage for certain parts, my pawns lose way more extremities, but it doesnt seem to impact their performance as much as before, which is nice.

Economy is way slower now, I cant amass huge piles of silver before year 3 anymore, Bionics/replacement body parts are rare and highly sought after. The Caravan requests, stashes etc... are a really awesome addition, those quests give you a goal to work towards and make gameplay less stale once you re established. They re also my main income source ^^

As others have noticed before, crafting stuff is confusing, blocks award construction xp, drugs give intellectual xp, what levels crafting now apart from tailoring/smithing? New players may get even more confused. The renaming of helmets was a very good idea by the way, very straight forward now. The new chain shotgun looks scary at first but is outperformed by the heavy smg in my opinion, the accuracy is way too low even for 3 shots.

Next up is fighting, tribals arent as scary anymore, but raiders became more scary. Surviving against the raids in the beginning is a real task now, raids are the scariest around the end of year 1 for me, when I have around 7 people and start to get some wealth going but am not very well equipped. Is there a limit to raider addictions by the way or is it completely rng? I had a 11 raiders vs 7 colonists fight, 5 of the raiders were addicts, 3 to go juice and one each to yayo and flake. Needless to say the raiders wiped the floor with me and ended my colony, they just didnt want to die and were too well equipped. Late game raids are kind of trivial though, once the launcher raiders are out of the way the fights are almost too easy, I could do with a bit more raiders. Sapper AI is still a bit stupid compared to the other raid types, I was able to pick them off one by one without getting hurt while they were mining, it would be cool if one quarter stays with the miner and the rest assaults your colonists in such cases.
The new mortars are a bit too accurate for my tastes, 2-3 mortars are enough to soften or destroy waiting raids and annihilate sieges completely, they may be part of the reason why late game raids are so trivial. The shells are more difficult to make but are still pretty cheap if you buy them, traders should charge more or carry less in my opinion. Concerning sieges, they are kind of trivial if you have mortars or super deadly if you dont and are not holed up in a mountain.

Insects are scary now and require a bit of planning before taking them on, I like them the way they are now ;D

Mech centipedes could use some love, they get downed way too easily, probably due to the new health system. Ship parts can be cheesed with 2 pawns, one shoots the ship and when the mechs give chase, a 2nd hidden pawn approaches the ship and keeps knocking on the hull, resulting in the mechs giving endless chase and assaulting your colony.

All in all A17 is a great update though, the bug fixes are super appreciated, stuff like worker override and the bill pause are really useful features, and I always appreciate the little details like the exact birth dates, ashes and burnt trees after a fire, or corpse bile, ew! ;D
Keep up the great work, devs!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Shurp on June 10, 2017, 11:13:42 AM
Wha... orbital combat suppliers don't buy clothing anymore?

I guess I have to go back to making joints to make money.  :(

Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Shurp on June 11, 2017, 12:21:23 PM
Woa -- orbital exotic traders don't buy clothing anymore?  Who *does* still buy clothing, only bulk traders?  It's starting to look like I have a pile of t-shirts plugging up my stockpile forever :(
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: nccvoyager on June 11, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
You can always just burn them.
Or make a huge stockpile for just those outside of your main base.
Just pillars and roofs over a huge stockpile.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 11, 2017, 10:10:10 PM
You can also take them on a caravan; Most settlements will buy clothes.

Half the reason I send out caravans, honestly, is to clear my stockpiles; I send stacks of small quantity leathers, meats (if it's a short caravan, which it usually is) clothes, low quality weapons and artwork, get there, sell, come on back. It's usually low profit, but it clears the junk out of my stockpiles, and is usually only a day or so round trip (I settle near roads in clusters of friendly {or potentially friendly; A hostile tribe is just a handful of raids away from being friends}, so it's usually pretty quick to get out and back) so I'm rarely put out much.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: CabbageFoot on July 20, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
So we have rivers and stuff... But largely they are still useless form a mechanics standpoint. Sure, sometimes they can act as a chokepoint against raids, but that's about it. It would be really neat if rimworld had some kind of water management system for aguriculture, or, if not, then just the ability to irrigate the land (digging a ditch connected to a water source)  and turn it into something like rich soil. Right now i look at rivers and think to myself, "Pehh, I can't build around that", while in real life societies formed around rivers because it make agriculture easier. ANY FISHING! OMG ADD FISHING, and an ANGLER skill!!!! I'm going to now look for a fishing mod!
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on August 29, 2017, 01:58:32 PM
I'm a bit late but hope the developer team, Tynan are still reading this thread. I started the game this year and the update to A17 took me by surprise too early in my learning curve. So I just turned to A17 two days ago. I'm on my second game now post A17. First one got annihilated by consecutive infections.

Today in my second A17 game, I checked the "Planning mode" too see the distance between my colony and Journey destination, then I missed "Strava".

Strava is a popular application for sportsmen and travelers, both for computers and smartphones. This Strava, also has a planning feature, richer in criteria such as short/fast, altitude gain, popular traffic routes. And while you select your preference, the guiding line will appear, just like in A17....only that it has an extra feature that I would love to see here too:

* While you drag your cursor over the guiding path, a simple dot will appear above with an extra infobox that gives additional information. If you place that dot between both waypoints, the additional info will display the estimation at that point so that you can clearly see the estimated time by that point, allowing users to view the same seeked data without making multiple waypoints for each particular segment. Which basically breaks the entire route into small segments.

We are not going to get into Charlene Whitestone's pinpoint in one shot, so this addition would help better for players to plan ahead future settlements with more ease than the current state.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on September 09, 2017, 09:40:00 PM
Self-treatment of injuries needs to be adjusted so that when animals nuzzle them, pawn won't stop self-healing half way and restart from zero again. I'm currently playing a game with just one doctor, who has a frail torso making his manipulation drop to 70%, two passion flames that started in level 2 I think and is currently at skill level 4. That nuzzle was so upsetting I almost kill the pet myself. This is a game deficiency as we players cannot control what animals will do in occasions as such. Asking us to draft a colonist or all wounded colonists to a pet free zone for uninterrupted treatment is too excessive.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: asanbr on September 14, 2017, 01:53:54 PM
Self-treatment of injuries needs to be adjusted so that when animals nuzzle them, pawn won't stop self-healing half way and restart from zero again. I'm currently playing a game with just one doctor, who has a frail torso making his manipulation drop to 70%, two passion flames that started in level 2 I think and is currently at skill level 4. That nuzzle was so upsetting I almost kill the pet myself. This is a game deficiency as we players cannot control what animals will do in occasions as such. Asking us to draft a colonist or all wounded colonists to a pet free zone for uninterrupted treatment is too excessive.

You should report this as a bug.
Title: Re: Official: RimWorld Alpha 17 - On the Road released!
Post by: Nameless on September 14, 2017, 02:08:47 PM
Maybe set animal area?