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RimWorld => Releases => Mods => Outdated => Topic started by: dburgdorf on May 29, 2017, 05:36:38 PM

Title: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 29, 2017, 05:36:38 PM
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/775029672016999713/765349CDF74F988CDC551D22CF45E0D43D8E2048/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black)

Last update: 8/22/2017

"Fertile Fields" is a terraforming mod that lets you fertilize and plow your soil, create farmland on solid rock so you can grow crops in inhospitable environs or inside of mountains, and eventually even restructure the landscape.

Create raw compost with food waste at a butcher's table, then put it in a compost bin or barrel so in time it can become fertilizer. Fertilizer can be used to convert any soil to rich soil. Further improve your farm's fertility by researching farming and plowing your soil. Or learn the fine art of terraforming, and redesign your environment to your heart's content.

- Rainbeau Flambe (dburgdorf)


Steam Workshop Link (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=935707512)

Dropbox Link (https://www.dropbox.com/s/slcknyo1cokkyob/Rainbeau%27s%20Fertile%20Fields.zip?dl=0)

New Research and Terrain Improvement Options:

Without researching anything, "Fertile Fields" allows you to do basic terrain modification, essentially just digging up dirt from one spot and moving it to another. You can also create raw compost and turn it into fertilizer, which can be used to upgrade your soil, even turning regular soil into rich soil.

Researching "Farming" opens up the ability to plow soil, which lets you further increase the fertility of rich soil. As well, it allows you to lay topsoil over smooth stone. Create a garden inside a mountain if you're so inclined. Topsoil can be further improved by fertilizing it, but can't be plowed.

Finally, "Terraforming" represents an understanding of advanced irrigation and drainage techniques, and opens up a wide variety of terrain-altering options. It allows you to turn marsh, mud, sand or shallow water tiles into farmable soil, or to turn fertile land into sand or marsh. It lets you create shallow water tiles from marsh, so you can create decorative (or defensive) moats. It opens up the ability to dump dirt into deep water to create shallow water, or to remove dirt from shallow water to produce deep water. It also allows you to break solid rock into rocky soil, which can be further improved into regular soil, letting you create mountain farms that can actually be plowed for maximum fertility. Conversely, you can turn rocky dirt back into rough stone. Finally, it also allows you to create a rock mill at which you can create crushed rocks, sand and clay from stone chunks, which you can use to create dirt, so you'll no longer have to remove dirt from one tile in order to add it to another.

Using the Mod:

Most of what's added by "Fertile Fields" can be found on the new "Terraform" and "Farming" tabs of the Architect menu.

A few things, however, are less obvious.

Fertilizer is made from compost in either a compost bin or a compost barrel. Compost can be created at a butcher's table from vegetable matter and meat. It can also be obtained by burning corpses.

Dirt can be created by mixing sand, clay and fertilizer at a crafting spot. Conversely, piles of dirt can be separated at crafting spots into sand and clay. Clay can be "fired" at a smithy to create bricks.

Initially, if you need dirt, sand, clay or crushed rocks, you'll need to obtain them by digging up terrain somewhere on the map or by purchasing them from traders. Once you've researched "Terraforming" and built a rock mill, though, stone chunks can be turned to crushed rocks, which can be further ground into sand and then into clay. Sand and clay, as already noted, can be used to create dirt.

For a more detailed overview of everything the mod has to offer, you can consult the "Getting Started with Fertile Fields" text file located in the mod's "About" folder.

Compatibility:

"Fertile Fields" should be compatible with most any other mods. If you run into specific issues, please let me know. You should be able to add "Fertile Fields" to an existing saved game without trouble, but removing the mod from a game in progress will, of course, likely cause problems or even make the game unplayable.

Night soil from Dub's "Hygiene" mod can be terraformed with any conversion that works from marshy soil. Wasteland from the "Crashlanding" mod can be terraformed as sand. Reclaimed soil from CuproPanda's "Quarry" mod can be terraformed as if it was gravel. And decrystallized sand and soil from "Tiberium Rim" can be terraformed as vanilla sand and gravel, respectively. (Note, though, that the various tiberium terrains introduced by that mod cannot be altered by anything in "Fertile Fields." To get rid of tiberium, you'll still need to utilize the mechanisms actually provided by "Tiberium Rim.")

Special note regarding "Vegetable Garden": I've tried to ensure that "Fertile Fields" and "Vegetable Garden" are compatible with each other. Make sure that "Fertile Fields" appears *after* "Vegetable Garden" in your mod load order. The fertilizing and terraforming options from "Fertile Fields" should cleanly overwrite those from "Vegetable Garden," while leaving the plants, recipes, and everything else that that mod adds to the game readily available to you.

Credits:

German language translation files were generously provided by Ryder32x.

The C# code related to compost bins derives from Dismarzero's "Vegetable Garden." The C# code related to compost barrels draws from Sulusdacor's "[sd] Luciferium Production" mod, which in turn borrows heavily from the default code for fermentation barrels.

The mod utilizes Pardeike's "Harmony Patch Library." (No additional download is required, as the library is included with the mod.)

License:

If you're a modpack maker and want to include "Fertile Fields" in your pack, or if you're a modder and want to use "Fertile Fields" as the basis of a derivative mod, please feel free to do so. I ask only that you let me know about it.

If you have any (helpful) suggestions for improvement, please let me know!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 29, 2017, 05:42:38 PM
At long last, I've finished rewriting and updating "Fertile Fields" for a17.  :D

- Updated to RimWorld alpha 17.

- It is now possible to convert bodies to compost in a crematorium.

- Crushing rocks, creating dirt, and similar activities are now done at a rock mill rather than at a stonecutting table. Rock mills can be built once "Terraforming" has been researched, and require electricity.

- The new packed dirt "road" terrain can be broken up to form soil.

- Added "pile of sand" as a resource. Sand can be obtained from beaches or deserts, or by further crushing crushed rocks.

- Digging up gravel now yields both crushed rocks and dirt.

- Creating dirt now requires both crushed rocks and sand, in addition to fertilizer.

- Added "bulk" recipes for dirt, sand and crushed rock creation.

- Added the ability to convert between sand and shallow water at beaches.

- Piles of dirt, sand, compost or fertilizer will now deteriorate if left outside.

- Building hydroponics basins now requires fertilizer as well as steel and components.

- Simplified the research tree to just two research projects: "Farming" (which allows plowing and laying topsoil) and "Terraforming" (which, of course, allows bulk terrain restructuring).

- Split the "Terraform" tab of the architect menu into two tabs, "Terraform" and "Farming."

- Redesigned the UI icons for terrain changes.

- Some defNames have been changed, primarily to allow RFF terraforming to cleanly replace "Vegetable Garden" terraforming, if the two mods are used together.

- Compost barrels finally actually require power as they were supposed to from the beginning. Without power, they will still function, but less efficiently than compost bins.

- Traders may still buy or sell fertilizer, but they'll no longer fill up their wagons or cargo holds with huge quantities of dirt, compost, and the like.

- Overrides of vanilla terrain defs now utilize XML patches, which should reduce incompatibility issues with other mods.

- Got rid of mid-depth water, as it really served no purpose.

- Got rid of the mod's distinction between fresh and salt water, since the vanilla game now defines fresh water, river water and ocean water separately, anyway.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: XeoNovaDan on May 29, 2017, 05:44:34 PM
Thank you for updating this fine mod to Alpha 17! Judging by the list of changes you've made, this is well-worth the relatively brief wait; quality over quantity!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Dr_Zhivago on May 29, 2017, 06:29:16 PM
Looking forward to testing... Eventually  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Draegon on May 29, 2017, 08:26:10 PM
Is there a way to have the normal colored Rimworld soil? I love this mod but the soil color bugs me for some reason.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on May 29, 2017, 11:56:26 PM
This is a very nice mod.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on May 30, 2017, 02:55:54 AM
awesome :)

Let's start shoveling
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 04:52:51 PM
So I just downloaded your mod from the Dropbox link, and used it in conjunction with "Vegetable Garden v5.4 build 4". It looks like it's functioning well and I like the changes in art that you've made. It has a cleaner look. Aside from that here's what I've got for ya:

1) You have no workgiver for the rock mill... So it's currently unusable. Linked is a quick edit I made to your workgiver xml. Just remove the ".DrZedit" and check it out. (I know you know how to, but for anyone else reading.)

2) Rename the single dirt recipe at the rock mill to "Make dirt x2". It's currently showing ingame as "Dig soil", and it also produces two dirt piles. That being said, I also noticed that you used the same defname for the recipe as Vegetable Garden; "VG_DigSoil". Not sure the reasoning behind this, but that's probably why the recipe name is showing up as "Dig soil" ingame instead of "Make dirt".

3)"Make dirt x5" recipe name is misleading as it produces 10 dirt piles.

4)Personally I'd keep all terraforming options within the terraforming tab. I understand why you'd put those four options (topsoils, rich soil, and plowed soil) under the "gardening tools" tab, but it messes with my mental consistency.

That's about all I've got to say at a quick glance. I'm not currently playing on A17, but if I encounter anything in the future I will let you know! Great work you've done.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 30, 2017, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 04:52:51 PM1) You have no workgiver for the rock mill....

Ugh. It's always the simple things that I forget to test. :P

Quote from: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 04:52:51 PM2) Rename the single dirt recipe at the rock mill to "Make dirt x2". It's currently showing ingame as "Dig soil", and it also produces two dirt piles. That being said, I also noticed that you used the same defname for the recipe as Vegetable Garden; "VG_DigSoil". Not sure the reasoning behind this, but that's probably why the recipe name is showing up as "Dig soil" ingame instead of "Make dirt".

If you're loading FF after VG, the game should be displaying the name defined in FF. But I'll check into it. (It's one of several cases where I reused a VG defName in order to overwrite VG terraforming-related stuff.)

Quote from: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 04:52:51 PM3)"Make dirt x5" recipe name is misleading as it produces 10 dirt piles.

Fair point. I was thinking "5x normal recipe production," not considering that since normal production of that recipe is 2, not 1, well....

Quote from: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 04:52:51 PM4)Personally I'd keep all terraforming options within the terraforming tab. I understand why you'd put those four options (topsoils, rich soil, and plowed soil) under the "gardening tools" tab, but it messes with my mental consistency.

The tab should be named "Farming," not "Gardening Tools." (Another spot where I overwrote a VG defName.) But I'll check and make sure it really is working correctly.

As to your point, yeah, I'm kind of torn on where to put them. They're farming- rather than terraforming-related, not least because the three of them that aren't available from the beginning are unlocked via the "Farming" research rather than the "Terraforming" research. But on the other hand, the  "terrain transformation" icons would arguably look better all on the same menu. But on yet another hand (quick - somebody lend me a third hand!), without VG loaded, that would leave the "Farming" menu with nothing but the compost bin and compost barrel....
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on May 30, 2017, 06:00:55 PM
If you're loading FF after VG, the game should be displaying the name defined in FF. But I'll check into it. (It's one of several cases where I reused a VG defName in order to overwrite VG terraforming-related stuff.)

Load order:
Core
VG
FF

Quote from: dburgdorf on May 30, 2017, 06:00:55 PM
The tab should be named "Farming," not "Gardening Tools."

As to your point, yeah, I'm kind of torn on where to put them....

Maybe the names being mixed up has something to do with the VG assembly? I really don't have much of a clue about those though.

As for the other stuff, I forgot about the new research you've included. I just dev-mode tested everything really quick. If it makes sense for compatibility, tech-tree, and ulterior asthetic reasons... Then I think it'll be easy enough to get used to.  ;)

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Good luck testing.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 30, 2017, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Dr_Zhivago on May 30, 2017, 07:49:04 PMLoad order....

It's not your load order. I've discovered the cause of the trouble; now I'm working on how to fix it. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 31, 2017, 02:14:29 AM
Update:

- Rock mills can actually be used now.

- The "make dirt" recipe is now named "make dirt x2," as it actually produces two piles of dirt. Similarly, the "make dirt x5" recipe has been renamed "make dirt x10."

- Cleaned up the patch XML a bit.

- Cleaned up a few spots where the interface with "Vegetable Garden" wasn't as neat as it should have been, and got rid of a few annoying (but inconsequential) error messages that were being generated.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 31, 2017, 02:15:43 AM
Quote from: Draegon on May 29, 2017, 08:26:10 PMIs there a way to have the normal colored Rimworld soil? I love this mod but the soil color bugs me for some reason.

I'm afraid I didn't do anything about this in the "bug-oriented" update I just finished, but I haven't forgotten your request. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: deathstar on May 31, 2017, 05:05:22 AM
I'd love to use this mod as an addition/enhancement to Vegetable Garden, from what I gather there is already some compatibility tweaks implemented in FF? Are there any actual conflicts left, or things from either mod that are made obsolete?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 31, 2017, 07:54:11 AM
Quote from: deathstar on May 31, 2017, 05:05:22 AMI'd love to use this mod as an addition/enhancement to Vegetable Garden, from what I gather there is already some compatibility tweaks implemented in FF? Are there any actual conflicts left, or things from either mod that are made obsolete?

As of last night's update, you shouldn't see any problems. As is noted in the mod's description, above, make sure that "Fertile Fields" loads *after* "Vegetable Garden." Where the two mods overlap -- production of fertilizer, plowing fields, etc. -- the items and abilities provided by "Fertile Fields" will cleanly overwrite those provided by "Vegetable Garden." But all of the unique capabilities provided by both mods will be available to you.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: deathstar on May 31, 2017, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on May 31, 2017, 07:54:11 AM
Quote from: deathstar on May 31, 2017, 05:05:22 AMI'd love to use this mod as an addition/enhancement to Vegetable Garden, from what I gather there is already some compatibility tweaks implemented in FF? Are there any actual conflicts left, or things from either mod that are made obsolete?

As of last night's update, you shouldn't see any problems. As is noted in the mod's description, above, make sure that "Fertile Fields" loads *after* "Vegetable Garden." Where the two mods overlap -- production of fertilizer, plowing fields, etc. -- the items and abilities provided by "Fertile Fields" will cleanly overwrite those provided by "Vegetable Garden." But all of the unique capabilities provided by both mods will be available to you.

Hot damn! That's the kind of streamlined, clean integration I love to see. Can't wait to try it out later tonight, thank you for your effort!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Dr_Zhivago on May 31, 2017, 11:33:41 AM
Quote from: Draegon on May 29, 2017, 08:26:10 PM
Is there a way to have the normal colored Rimworld soil? I love this mod but the soil color bugs me for some reason.

Here's A17 dirt texture. You can just rename and replace the FF one if it bothers ya.

(https://s2.postimg.org/b7ybxse3t/Soil.png) (https://postimg.org/image/bkpq3ywdh/)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: GlitchKs on May 31, 2017, 12:18:34 PM
Compost barrels finally actually require power as they were supposed to from the beginning. Without power, they will still function, but less efficiently than compost bins.

Glad to hear it. I like that it works with out all be it slower.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 31, 2017, 12:59:13 PM
Quote from: GlitchKs on May 31, 2017, 12:18:34 PMGlad to hear it. I like that it works with out all be it slower.

Yeah. Given that compost eventually becomes fertilizer more or less automatically, anyway, it wouldn't have made sense for the process to stop completely.

Originally, the only significant advantage of compost barrels over bins was being able to save space by converting 10 piles of compost at a time in a single tile instead of just one. But there was no time difference. Ten bins produced 10 fertilizer in the same amount of time as did one barrel. Now, however, with power, barrels actually produce fertilizer slightly faster than bins. But without power, they take twice as long.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Seiryuu on May 31, 2017, 08:10:55 PM
Anyone knows how to clear this "mud" and the puddles of water there? I can't find the right choice..

http://imgur.com/a/KgaDl
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on May 31, 2017, 09:07:09 PM
Quote from: Seiryuu on May 31, 2017, 08:10:55 PMAnyone knows how to clear this "mud" and the puddles of water there? I can't find the right choice.

To deal with mud, marsh and water tiles, you need to first research "Terraforming." Then check the "Terraform" menu options for the conversion you need.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Seiryuu on May 31, 2017, 09:58:22 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 04, 2017, 10:31:23 PM
Update:

- Added "def-injected" language files to facilitate easier translation.

- Converting sand to shallow water will now leave behind piles of sand, as it's supposed to.

- You should no longer be pestered by error messages informing you that the game tried to place a rotted item on a null map.

- Rotted meat and mush are now recognized by the game (for filter purposes, primarily) as rotted items.

- The default soil and rich soil graphics can now be found in the mod's "Textures" folder. If you prefer the vanilla look, simply rename Soil.png and SoilRich.png to replace RFF_Soil.png and RFF_SoilRich.png.

- Cleaned up some behind-the-scenes mistakes I made in updating to a17. These changes will, unfortunately, break saves. I apologize.

- Added "[RF]" prefix tag to the mod's name for easier mod list sorting.

Again, this update WILL, unfortunately, break saved games. If you need the 5/30 version of the mod so you can finish a game already in progress, you can find it here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqpy6zmh9hzc5uk/Rainbeau%27s%20Fertile%20Fields%20%285-30%20version%29.zip?dl=0).
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on June 04, 2017, 10:36:28 PM
Thanks for the update, much appreciated!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 05, 2017, 06:15:33 AM
Found an incompatibility with Fluffy's work tab and the newest version of FF.

Seems the worktab doesn't like it when you have a workgiver def without a worktype or giverclass, so overwriting the vegetable garden "DoBillsUseDiggingSpot" with one that doesn't include that leads to errors (with or without vegetable garden).

I fixed the issue by removing the "DoBillsUseDiggingSpot" def from FF and instead making a patch with the new patch system:

<Patch>
<Operation Class="PatchOperationSequence">
<success>Always</success>
<operations>
<li Class="PatchOperationTest">
<xpath>/WorkGivers/WorkGiverDef[defName = "DoBillsUseDiggingSpot"]</xpath>
</li>
<li Class="PatchOperationRemove">
<xpath>/WorkGivers/WorkGiverDef[defName = "DoBillsUseDiggingSpot"]</xpath>
</li>
</operations>
</Operation>
</Patch>


Seems to work, so far.

Just some info for dburgdorf, or anyone else having a similar issue.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 05, 2017, 09:28:06 AM
Quote from: Antaios on June 05, 2017, 06:15:33 AMI fixed the issue by... making a patch....

OK, I feel like an idiot. Using patches to delete defs I want to get rid of (to eliminate awkward overlaps between the mods) is a glaringly simple solution, but it never even occurred to me. Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 05, 2017, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 05, 2017, 09:28:06 AMThanks for pointing out what should have been obvious. :D

Glad I could help  :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on June 05, 2017, 06:22:11 PM
You don't have to test, then remove. If it's already inside a sequence that always returns success, just issue a remove. It won't show in the logs as warning.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Legion499 on June 05, 2017, 08:40:52 PM
Rainbeau would you consider making it possible to put down Solid Stone Walls and Floors? Basically make your terraforming completely backward compatible. I really like the ability to smooth cave walls and floors both because I like the simple look and because I can make it livable without adding additional resources. That said, there's no way to add solid stone to the map yet... which is sad since that means I cant enjoy it without being on a mountain map. Maybe make bricks the requirement? Rock Chunks are no good since you only get a limited selection and number with no way to trade for more.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 05, 2017, 09:19:47 PM
Quote from: Legion499 on June 05, 2017, 08:40:52 PMRainbeau would you consider making it possible to put down Solid Stone Walls and Floors?

It's already possible to convert rocky dirt to rough stone (which can then be smoothed just like naturally-occurring rough stone). :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Legion499 on June 05, 2017, 09:53:32 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 05, 2017, 09:19:47 PM
Quote from: Legion499 on June 05, 2017, 08:40:52 PMRainbeau would you consider making it possible to put down Solid Stone Walls and Floors?

It's already possible to convert rocky dirt to rough stone (which can then be smoothed just like naturally-occurring rough stone). :)
Annnnnd Downloaded!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 06, 2017, 11:23:04 PM
Update:

- Compost barrel "inspect strings" should no longer generate errors when the temperature is extreme.

- XML defs no longer try to inherit from core abstracts. (It probably wasn't creating any problems, anyway, but it's better this way.)

- Further tweaked "Vegetable Garden" interfacing and XML patches.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 09, 2017, 04:31:14 AM
I have a couple of notes on the latest version, Regarding VG patches.

Based on previous versions, I assume you meant for the Fertilizer Machine from VG to get disabled?
If so, then it's been missed in the patch changes, and shows up in the production menu.

While the digging spot is removed, It's workgiver is still there. Its not really a big deal, just noticable to anyone using WorkTab.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 09, 2017, 09:46:54 AM
Quote from: Antaios on June 09, 2017, 04:31:14 AM
I have a couple of notes on the latest version, Regarding VG patches.

I'll take a look this evening or over the weekend. Something in VG might have been updated or changed. (I'm working with the 5/28 version I downloaded from this forum, which looks to still be the current version here, but there seem to have been a few updates since then on Steam.) Or, of course, I might just have missed something myself. :)

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: MisterVertigo on June 09, 2017, 10:05:33 AM
I just found this mod. I've been looking for a good terraforming mod for a while. It always seems like there is a moat or a pond RIGHT in the middle of where I want my base and I had no way of removing it. I'd always end up using the dev tools to remove it but I've wanted a less-cheaty way of doing it. I like that this looks like it will make my colonists "work" for this. I look forward to trying it out!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 09, 2017, 10:36:29 AM
I've been holding off because I didn't really want a terraforming mod, but between you and the annoying subterranean pockets of mud and water in my current colony, I think you've just sold me, MrV.

At current, I've just built bridges over a patch of water in my freezer (thanks, Rainbeau), but I think terraforming them out entirely would be better.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on June 10, 2017, 11:14:10 AM
Quote from: DariusWolfe on June 09, 2017, 10:36:29 AM

At current, I've just built bridges over a patch of water in my freezer (thanks, Rainbeau), but I think terraforming them out entirely would be better.

Maybe in A19 the patch just freezes over, like it should :)
And what about the moisture pump, have not used it in A17 yet, should it not get rid of those pesky wet and mud spots as well ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 10, 2017, 12:01:50 PM
It was deep water, surrounded by stone; I definitely don't want to wait a year or two to be able to use a section of my freezer, so the moisture pump isn't really an option I'm considering, if it even worked on deep water (which I've read it doesn't?)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 10, 2017, 12:05:32 PM
You should fire the architect to plan the freezer at deep water. Couldn't he plan the colony a bit away from the deep water ? :-)
And no deep water you can't remove with the pump.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 10, 2017, 12:46:45 PM
The deep water was right in the middle of a mountain; Just a few squares of water in otherwise solid rock. No way to predict that.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 12, 2017, 01:29:12 AM
Minor update. Got the pesky "fertilizer machine" to finally leave the Production menu. The interfacing between "Fertile Fields" and "Vegetable Garden" is finally now working completely, 100% as intended. Seriously. I promise!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on June 12, 2017, 11:46:55 AM
Yay :)

Dear Mod-Fairy, I wish I could move the Rockmill around.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Arnold Rimmer on June 12, 2017, 03:16:09 PM
Hello DBurgDorf, i am getting this error: "Tried to place thing RottedMush823914 in a null map."
How did that happen? Do you need more info? What's a "nullmap"?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 12, 2017, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Arnold Rimmer on June 12, 2017, 03:16:09 PM
Hello DBurgDorf, i am getting this error: "Tried to place thing RottedMush823914 in a null map."

You're using a version of "Fertile Fields" from before last Sunday. Unfortunately, the 6/4 update that squashed the "rotted stuff on null maps" bug also broke saves, so if you want to finish your current game, you'll need to put up with the (annoying but not otherwise problematic) error messages.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: hiepbg on June 12, 2017, 03:49:08 PM
Do i need to play new game with this mod ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 12, 2017, 11:05:13 PM
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/838081272093898850/6CC27FDAB872621E8431264BFAC3A06EAB9B11DB/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black)

Last update: 9/24/2017

This mod is an add-on to "Fertile Fields," which adds concrete to the game. I made it a separate mod, as there are already other mods which add concrete, and I didn't want "Fertile Fields" users to feel stuck with my particular version of it.

Concrete can be made at a stonecutting table, with sand, crushed rocks and cement. Cement is made by "cooking" limestone in a smithy.

Vanilla concrete and paved tile floors are now made with concrete instead of with steel. (Honestly, I have no idea why Tynan added concrete floors to the game without adding concrete from which to make them.)

The terraforming option in "Fertile Fields" which allows conversion of rocky dirt into rough stone now requires concrete in addition to crushed rocks.

And if you're using "Basic Bridges," you'll find that construction of deep water bridges also now requires concrete instead of steel.

Additionally, concrete can be used to make "cinder" blocks. These can be used to make walls and other items that can otherwise be made from stone blocks. Cinder block walls are weaker (and less attractive) than granite walls, but can be built quickly.

The mod also adds "poured concrete walls," which are as strong as standard stone walls, but easier to build in bulk, "steel-reinforced concrete walls" (and matching embrasures), which are nearly as strong as plasteel walls, and "plasteel-reinforced concrete walls," with twice the durability of plasteel walls, for those who want the ultimate security for their pawns living in bunkers.

- Rainbeau Flambe (dburgdorf)


Steam Workshop Link (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=945717482)

Dropbox Link (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzxbc0owos9s10t/Rainbeau%27s%20Concrete.zip?dl=0)

Compatibility:

This mod requires my "Fertile Fields" mod. It makes no difference which loads first, but without "Fertile Fields," this mod won't work. It should be compatible with most any other mods, except perhaps for other mods which add concrete. But why would you be trying to use two different mods to add concrete? Just pick one or the other!

The basic embrasures added by this mod share a defName with the embrasures added by "Combat Extended." Embrasures in your game will thus be defined by whichever of the two mods loads last. There really isn't much difference between the two. I'd recommend loading "Concrete" after "Combat Extended," though, since my embrasures provide slightly better cover and look nicer. :D

You should be able to add this mod to an existing saved game without trouble, but removing it from a game in progress will likely cause problems.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: onerous1 on June 13, 2017, 03:23:58 AM
Why not just make concrete out of (pulverized) limestone chunks and heat (in a furnace)?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 13, 2017, 09:34:37 AM
Quote from: onerous1 on June 13, 2017, 03:23:58 AMWhy not just make concrete out of (pulverized) limestone chunks and heat (in a furnace)?

I didn't limit concrete to being made just from limestone (though that would be more realistic) for the same reason I haven't limited dirt to being made only from certain types of rocks: I don't want to require something that might or might not actually be available on a given map.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 13, 2017, 09:46:57 AM
QuoteConcrete can be made at a rock mill, with sand, crushed rocks and steel
Let me suggest to remove the steel part. Steel ist just used for the reinforced concrete.

And why you need to use cinder blocks, why not use the concrete self to create stuff (concrete walls instead cinder walls). To compensate the missing step just increate the workamout to create concrete.

Or do you want do it like the hardcore-sk team and made it complex and difficult ? :-)

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 13, 2017, 10:34:49 AM
Quote from: Canute on June 13, 2017, 09:46:57 AMLet me suggest to remove the steel part.... And why you need to use cinder blocks, why not use the concrete self to create stuff (concrete walls instead cinder walls).

Removing steel from the basic concrete block recipe probably isn't a bad idea. It just seemed that using nothing but rocks and sand was too simple. But you're right; it doesn't make much sense.

As to your second point, maybe I shouldn't use the term "cinder block," per se, as that's something too specific, and probably not the best example of building material made from concrete, anyway. The idea, though, is that you don't "pour" a concrete wall the same way you pour a concrete floor. You construct a wall out of something -- blocks, slabs, whatever -- that's already been made from concrete.

Technically, the paved tile floor should probably be made from concrete tiles rather than directly from concrete, for the same reason. Hell, reinforced concrete walls shouldn't be made from basic concrete blocks and steel, but instead from a completely different, harder-to-make type of concrete block or slab. But I'm trying to strike a balance here between "reality" and playability. Some abstraction is necessary. My goal really *isn't* just to make things complex and difficult. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 13, 2017, 11:09:10 AM
I'll admit I brow-raised at "cinder block is stronger than granite".

Cinder block walls would be moderately tough and fast to deploy, but definitely not tougher than granite.

Also, I noticed last night that smoothed granite was actually weaker than raw granite; I was sad, but I think I understand the reasoning.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 13, 2017, 12:06:55 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 13, 2017, 10:34:49 AM
As to your second point, maybe I shouldn't use the term "cinder block," per se, as that's something too specific, and probably not the best example of building material made from concrete, anyway. The idea, though, is that you don't "pour" a concrete wall the same way you pour a concrete floor. You construct a wall out of something -- blocks, slabs, whatever -- that's already been made from concrete.
It is possible to add a timed component to concrete building?
For regular walls, you just use blocks (and at real some cement) and boing the wall is finished.
For concrete wall, you build some form first and then you fill up it with the "liquid" concrete (and steel if the are reinforced). After a while you can remove the form and got the finished wall.
For RW term, you use 1-2 wood + 5 concrete to build a "fresh" concrete wall with limited HPs. And after 1 day these wall transform into the real concrete wall.
Now the question could you easly add these aging process ?


Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 13, 2017, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: Canute on June 13, 2017, 12:06:55 PMIt is possible to add a timed component to concrete building?

That's an interesting idea.  I'd want to get some idea if people would actually like it before implementing it, but my first reaction is, "Yeah, that's kind of a cool concept."

And mechanically, it really wouldn't be any different than what I already do with compost bins.  You use compost and wood to create a bin, which then sits for three days before automagically turning into fertilizer (and perhaps returning some of the wood).
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on June 13, 2017, 12:45:13 PM
I would like that timed element.

But it might get difficult if you think about the concrete floor.
It would cause some confusion why it does not work the same way, but then there would also be the problem of pawns walking over the fresh concrete ..

And finally my favorite gardening option is in the game :
flatten the shit, pave it over and paint it green ..
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: onerous1 on June 13, 2017, 03:03:47 PM
Quote from: onerous1 on June 13, 2017, 03:23:58 AM
Why not just make concrete cement out of (pulverized) limestone chunks and heat (in a furnace)?

I meant cement... not concrete when I wrote this statement. Just worked the night shift and couldn't sleep. Anyway, my point is that the steel element could be replaced with cement using crushed limestone or marble and heated in the furnace. I know you were concerned about the limiting nature of materials, but sand is also a limited resource (deserts, beaches, etc.) unless Fertile Fields allows you to dig up sand in (almost) any biome. I argue that it would be an opportunity to send out a caravan.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 13, 2017, 03:29:23 PM
Quote from: onerous1 on June 13, 2017, 03:03:47 PMI meant cement... not concrete when I wrote this statement.

I didn't include cement as a requirement for concrete since, in mod terms, it seemed redundant. Unless I limited the stone type that can be used to make cement -- which I would very much prefer not to do, partly because of the previously-mentioned concerns about availability, and partly because doing so would require that I have distinct "types" of crushed rock and sand, rather than just generic items -- cement would simply end up being made of sand, which is already required for concrete, anyway.

(And on a side note, yes, "Fertile Fields" actually does allow you to create sand by further pulverizing crushed rocks.)

Edit: I suppose I could make cement a trader-only item, and require it for production of concrete, but I'm not sure that that wouldn't just make concrete too difficult to obtain to be worth the bother.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 13, 2017, 08:37:37 PM
Once again, it occurs to me that I've missed the obvious.

I can't decide whether or not to link creation of certain resources (concrete, via cement, and possibly dirt or fertilizer as well) to a particular material (limestone) that might or might not be available on a given map.

But... why do I need to decide?

So, yeah, I still need to figure out all the details, and I'm too tired tonight to do much with it, but expect the next updates of "Fertile Fields" and "Concrete" to include some sort of "limestone is important" configuration option. If you don't check it, things will work essentially as they do now. If you do check it, things will be a bit more realistic, and you'll need to make sure you have access (either as a stone type on your map, or through trading) to limestone.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: faltonico on June 14, 2017, 12:25:51 AM
I'm using the Reinforced Concrete Wall mod and i find it perfectly balanced. For 5000 hp wall, it uses limestone, gravel (made from stone chunks or blocks) and rebar (from steel) to build the wall on site. You have to make the choice to land on a tile with that stone or buy the blocks from traders. The only bad thing is concrete is not a stuff, so you can't do other things with that. But with just that i find it extremely useful.

You just have to make it more appealing to go for all the effort of finding a steady supply of limestone, i personally wouldn't bother for a 1300 hp wall.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 15, 2017, 12:27:39 AM
Updates to Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) based on initial feedback:

- Added cement, which is made in a smithy from limestone chunks.

- Making concrete no longer requires steel, but instead requires cement.

- Concrete is now made at a stonecutting table instead of at a rock mill. I wanted to make sure that concrete production didn't require electricity, since historically it's been used since ancient times.

- Cinder block walls are now weaker than granite walls, and aren't pretty. But they can be built quickly.

- Reinforced concrete walls are now much stronger than they were originally.

- A new wall type, "poured concrete wall," splits the difference.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 15, 2017, 04:58:59 AM
dburgdorf,
a little request,
at the Dropbox download link could you change the 0 into a 1. This start the download directly.

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 15, 2017, 07:42:29 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 15, 2017, 12:27:39 AM
Updates to Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) based on initial feedback:

About the limestone requirement.
Personally, it kind of sucks that the only fast/cheap (non-flammable) floor is really difficult to get now, unless you spawn with limestone. Its nice that the really tough extra walls need a specific material that might be hard to get, but not having a mass-floor that isn't flammable is frustrating.

The cement requires limestone chunks, but traders only carry limestone bricks, not chunks. Further, only orbital traders and towns you visit can even trade limestone bricks. Visiting caravans don't stock those kind of raw resources.
You can buy cement/concrete, but they'll only be available from the same traders.

Limestone blocks and chunks are also really heavy, making procurement via caravans really annoying, if anyone wants to setup a camp somewhere to mine limestone.

At the moment, There's only two ways I see getting decent amounts of cement, if your map has no limestone.
One is to make a second settlement (or camp) to mine limestone, then put a smithy down there and turn it into cement, which is light enough that you conceivably carry it home.
Or, you can take a caravan from outlander to tribe in the hopes that they stock cement/concrete in their own base. Based on 5 minutes in dev mode cycling orbital traders though, you'll be visiting a ton of villages before finding one that stocks cement/concrete.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 15, 2017, 08:35:29 AM
QuoteAbout the limestone requirement.
Personally, it kind of sucks that the only fast/cheap (non-flammable) floor is really difficult to get now, unless you spawn with limestone. Its nice that the really tough extra walls need a specific material that might be hard to get, but not having a mass-floor that isn't flammable is frustrating.
In the past people choose granite/marble tile for the base.
With these mod they choose limbstone tile, no big difference.

But basicly i agree, the cement should be made from any stone, even when this isn't excact the reality.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 15, 2017, 10:34:32 AM
I said I was going to make it configurable, but then didn't bother. I should have stuck with the original plan. ;)

OK, the next update -- probably tonight, as it'll be a simple thing to do -- will add a configuration option to "Concrete" so that those who want a bit of added difficulty and realism can set the game so that cement can only be made from limestone, but those who prefer a slightly simpler, more "abstracted" system can set the game so that cement can be made from any type of stone.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 15, 2017, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 15, 2017, 10:34:32 AM
I said I was going to make it configurable, but then didn't bother. I should have stuck with the original plan. ;)

OK, the next update -- probably tonight, as it'll be a simple thing to do -- will add a configuration option to "Concrete" so that those who want a bit of added difficulty and realism can set the game so that cement can only be made from limestone, but those who prefer a slightly simpler, more "abstracted" system can set the game so that cement can be made from any type of stone.

If you can get that to work, that'll be nice.

To be fair though, I don't think having limestone needed for the reinforced and some of the other walls is bad. I'm probably still going to use limestone only, because I like the idea of that mechanic.
I'm just not entirely sure about (when not selecting limestone on the map) bumping concrete floor and fast/weak walls back later into the game.
I also wasn't sure about how hard it is to get limestone or cement, given you have to be very lucky to find a trader which has cement/concrete.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 15, 2017, 11:26:22 AM
Quote from: Antaios on June 15, 2017, 11:16:32 AMI'm just not entirely sure about (when not selecting limestone on the map) bumping concrete floor and fast/weak walls back later into the game. I also wasn't sure about how hard it is to get limestone or cement, given you have to be very lucky to find a trader which has cement/concrete.

The problem is, it's really sort of an "all or nothing proposition." Either cement requires limestone, or it doesn't. There's no logical way to have the concrete for simple things not require limestone, but have the concrete for bunker walls require it. Setting it as a configurable option will allow players to choose which version they prefer.

That said, I can certainly also look at increasing the likelihood that traders will sell cement, which should help alleviate some of the early-game difficulty for players who do want the more realistic version, but don't have limestone on their maps.

(I need to look more closely into trader configurations, anyway. I currently have sand, dirt and the like set to not be tradeable at all, since traders were showing up with absurdly huge stockpiles of the stuff. But I'd much prefer to allow traders to carry those items, but only in smaller, more reasonable amounts.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on June 15, 2017, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: Canute on June 15, 2017, 08:35:29 AM
QuoteAbout the limestone requirement.
Personally, it kind of sucks that the only fast/cheap (non-flammable) floor is really difficult to get now, unless you spawn with limestone. Its nice that the really tough extra walls need a specific material that might be hard to get, but not having a mass-floor that isn't flammable is frustrating.
In the past people choose granite/marble tile for the base.
With these mod they choose limbstone tile, no big difference.

But basicly i agree, the cement should be made from any stone, even when this isn't excact the reality.

You could also include a recipe to craft Cement from Limestone Blocks.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 15, 2017, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on June 15, 2017, 11:47:25 AMYou could also include a recipe to craft Cement from Limestone Blocks.

That's actually not a bad idea. Since the blocks are just "cut out" of chunks, anyway, there's no real reason why some blocks couldn't be thrown into a smithy as easily as a chunk, for the same end result.

(I might also change the output so, say, five blocks gives you one cement, and a chunk gives you four instead of the current one, to make cement a little less of a resource hog.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 18, 2017, 06:27:24 PM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg336873#msg336873) has been updated. New and improved, with 100% more clay bricks!

- Added clay to the mod. Clay can be gained by extracting it from dirt (which actually provides both clay and sand), or by further grinding sand at a rock mill.

- Creating dirt now requires sand and clay instead of sand and crushed rocks.

- Creation of dirt (and extraction of sand and clay from dirt) is now done at a crafting spot rather than at a rock mill. Rock mills are for grinding things.

- Clay can be baked into bricks in a smithy, which can then be used to make walls and other items which can be constructed from stone blocks.

- Added the ability to convert soil to packed dirt.

- Sand can now be converted to shallow water if it's near existing water, even if it isn't directly adjacent to water.

- Terraforming resources (dirt, sand, and crushed rocks) are again available from bulk traders, but hopefully only at more reasonable quantities.

- Terraforming resources might also be available from visitors, though in substantially smaller quantities than from bulk traders.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 18, 2017, 06:29:39 PM
Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) has also been updated:

- Cement and concrete are somewhat more likely to be found on bulk traders, as per changes in "Fertile Fields."

- Limestone blocks, as well as limestone chunks, can now be used in the creation of cement.

- Cement recipes default to allowing only limestone, but can be adjusted to accept other stone types, as well.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: faltonico on June 18, 2017, 07:41:31 PM
Hi there!
Thank you for your hard work on the mods! i really appreciate it!
In case you are not aware, the latest Chrome  (version 59.0.3071.104 64-bit), is giving a warning after completing the download of fertile fields about being dangerous, just so you know, i downloaded it anyway.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 18, 2017, 07:57:48 PM
Quote from: faltonico on June 18, 2017, 07:41:31 PMIn case you are not aware, the latest Chrome  (version 59.0.3071.104 64-bit), is giving a warning after completing the download of fertile fields about being dangerous....

That's odd. I just updated my copy of Chrome and tried it myself, and didn't get any such warning. I suppose that could be because Chrome recognized that it was my own file on Dropbox, but honestly, I have no idea what could even trigger such a warning....
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: faltonico on June 18, 2017, 08:16:32 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 18, 2017, 07:57:48 PM
Quote from: faltonico on June 18, 2017, 07:41:31 PMIn case you are not aware, the latest Chrome  (version 59.0.3071.104 64-bit), is giving a warning after completing the download of fertile fields about being dangerous....

That's odd. I just updated my copy of Chrome and tried it myself, and didn't get any such warning. I suppose that could be because Chrome recognized that it was my own file on Dropbox, but honestly, I have no idea what could even trigger such a warning....
Thank you for your quick answer!
Well it stopped throwing the warning.... i guess it finally recognized the file as not being "unusual", i think that was the warning for, not for the file being malicious.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: wwWraith on June 19, 2017, 01:15:40 AM
Imho this clay/bricks system needs to be improved. Brick walls take too much effort without any exceptional benefits, it's simpler to just use natural stone. It could be useful on flat maps with little to no natural stone, but even then you should destroy too much soil if you want your colony to be bricks-based. So it seems to be not worth it. I think these ways to get bricks should be considered secondary, and for main use there are need for some simple and reliable source of clay, like digging in a designated clay pit, and a semi-passive method of making bricks, like it is with compost barrels.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: faltonico on June 19, 2017, 11:32:47 PM
Though i have to admit that i liked the solution of concrete i was using a lot (i liked the notion of using rebar, cement and gravel separately), this version adds more depth to the game. So i'll probably make the switch.
But, I personally will change the recipe to make cement in the electric smelter (not the smithy), will make brick floors a bit more beautiful and i'm thinking of making reinforced concrete from 4 to 5 k hp as i'm used to, going against 10 plasmacasting federators is no joke xD


I liked the idea of the floors and the integration with your other mods, but after a little bit of playtest i think i better stick with the mods i have been using.
Regardless of that, i still think you deserve praise for your work. Thank you!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 19, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: faltonico on June 19, 2017, 11:32:47 PM
But, I personally will change the recipe to make cement in the electric smelter (not the smithy), will make brick floors a bit more beautiful and i'm thinking of making reinforced concrete from 4 to 5 k hp as i'm used to, going against 10 plasmacasting federators is no joke xD

I went with the smithies instead of the smelter since bricks and cement both date back to ancient times, and so I didn't want them to require electricity in the game. The alternative would have been to create a brand new production "table," which seemed more effort than was really justified.

Making brick walls and floors more beautiful is probably not a bad idea. And buffing reinforced concrete walls is certainly something I can look at.

Quote from: faltonico on June 19, 2017, 11:32:47 PM
I liked the idea of the floors and the integration with your other mods, but after a little bit of playtest i think i better stick with the mods i have been using.

Feedback on balance and other issues is always welcome, so if you have specific suggestions or observations -- whether you plan to use the mod going forward or not -- please let me know! ;)

Quote from: wwWraith on June 19, 2017, 01:15:40 AM
Brick walls take too much effort without any exceptional benefits, it's simpler to just use natural stone.... I think these ways to get bricks should be considered secondary, and for main use there are need for some simple and reliable source of clay, like digging in a designated clay pit, and a semi-passive method of making bricks, like it is with compost barrels.

I'll probably double the number of bricks you get when you fire clay, and as noted above, the beauty of brick walls and floors will probably be increased. That should help to make brick more worthwhile as an alternative to stone.

Allowing a "passive" method of making bricks by allowing them just to dry over time in the open isn't something I'd considered, but is certainly reasonable (and realistic).

I don't plan to add any sort of "digging spot," though. I've tried very hard to maintain a "zero sum game" approach to dirt and related resources in "Fertile Fields."
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: faltonico on June 20, 2017, 12:05:39 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 19, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: faltonico on June 19, 2017, 11:32:47 PM
I liked the idea of the floors and the integration with your other mods, but after a little bit of playtest i think i better stick with the mods i have been using.

Feedback on balance and other issues is always welcome, so if you have specific suggestions or observations -- whether you plan to use the mod going forward or not -- please let me know! ;)
I would end up asking you to make copies of the other mods i'm using so i thought it wouldn't be fair for you =s

Edit: You can make the smelter make the product faster compared to the fueled smithy... That would make a lot of sense.
Edit 2: i couldn't help to keep discussing that xD
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: wwWraith on June 20, 2017, 01:08:51 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 19, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
I'll probably double the number of bricks you get when you fire clay, and as noted above, the beauty of brick walls and floors will probably be increased. That should help to make brick more worthwhile as an alternative to stone.
Look at some brick wall irl - is it particularly beautiful? I think it would not be logical to add them more beauty ingame, it is ok comparable to stone blocks. The main benefits of using bricks irl are that they are easier to get and to use (and temperature/sound isolation properties that have no matter ingame atm), so increasing their output numbers looks like a good idea. And may be you should also consider to decreasing WorkToBuild for them.

Quote from: dburgdorf on June 19, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
Allowing a "passive" method of making bricks by allowing them just to dry over time in the open isn't something I'd considered, but is certainly reasonable (and realistic).
It's a good way to low-tech colonies, but for more industrious ones may be more appropriate yet to add some sort of oven that should be loaded with bigger quantities of clay and left to dry it automatically while pawns do their other deeds?

Quote from: dburgdorf on June 19, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
I don't plan to add any sort of "digging spot," though. I've tried very hard to maintain a "zero sum game" approach to dirt and related resources in "Fertile Fields."
Yeah, this "zero sum" is the thing that makes me feel somehow uncomfortable ;D I just used to rely mostly on renewable resources. But I completely understand and respect your approach, I can fight my greediness :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: hoaxdream on June 24, 2017, 05:01:43 AM
when i enable this mod together with vegetable garden, the digging spot in vegetable garden wont show up in the game, bug?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 24, 2017, 06:08:40 AM
Quote from: hoaxdream on June 24, 2017, 05:01:43 AM
when i enable this mod together with vegetable garden, the digging spot in vegetable garden wont show up in the game, bug?

It's part of the Fertile Fields vegetable garden compatibility stuff, which replaces digging in one spot for dirt with actually digging up dirt across the map.

Speaking of the Vegetable garden compatibility stuff, Dburgdorf, I think you missed some of the fertilizer recipes, specifically:
Butcher table: Make compost starter, Make fertilizer
Crematorium: Cermate into fertilizer
Campfire: Cremate into fertilizer
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: hoaxdream on June 24, 2017, 06:18:13 AM
thanks
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 24, 2017, 06:33:13 AM
Quote from: Antaios on June 24, 2017, 06:08:40 AM
Speaking of the Vegetable garden compatibility stuff, Dburgdorf, I think you missed some of the fertilizer recipes, specifically:
Butcher table: Make compost starter, Make fertilizer
Crematorium: Cermate into fertilizer
Campfire: Cremate into fertilizer
Don't forget Fertile Fields goes and different way to made his own Fertilizer.
Butcher: you can made raw compost -> Fertilizer at the bin or barrel.
Campfire/Crema: same

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 26, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Antaios on June 24, 2017, 06:08:40 AM
Speaking of the Vegetable garden compatibility stuff, Dburgdorf, I think you missed some of the fertilizer recipes, specifically:
Butcher table: Make compost starter, Make fertilizer
Crematorium: Cermate into fertilizer
Campfire: Cremate into fertilizer

If you're loading VG before FF, then none of those recipes should still be showing up in the game. And if you're loading VG *after* FF, well, those recipes aren't the only aspects of the mods' overlap that aren't being handled correctly.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on June 26, 2017, 08:20:31 PM
Hello dburgdorf,
First I love the mod and how you have implemented features.

Then I would like to ask your permission for using your mod as a dependency for another mod I'm making. It will overhaul a lot of the crafting aspect of the game and for some key features I intend to use some already existing mods like yours or powerless by Cupropanda instead of re-inventing the wheel.

Link to the project : https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27252.0
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 26, 2017, 08:48:41 PM
Quote from: kaptain_kavern on June 26, 2017, 08:20:31 PM
I would like to ask your permission for using your mod as a dependency for another mod I'm making.

Absolutely! I'll be very interested in seeing what you come up with. I've always been a sucker for good crafting systems. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on June 26, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Thank you  ;D

Quote from: dburgdorf on June 26, 2017, 08:48:41 PM
I'll be very interested in seeing what you come up with. I've always been a sucker for good crafting systems. :)
Oh, it will mostly be like the old "Superior Crafting" mod that was all the rage a couple of alphas back. The mod was at the core of EVERY mod packs I've seen. So I'm thinking the whole "modding scene" will benefit from it being updated/adapted.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on June 26, 2017, 10:47:45 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 26, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Antaios on June 24, 2017, 06:08:40 AM
Speaking of the Vegetable garden compatibility stuff, Dburgdorf, I think you missed some of the fertilizer recipes
If you're loading VG before FF, then none of those recipes should still be showing up in the game. And if you're loading VG *after* FF, well, those recipes aren't the only aspects of the mods' overlap that aren't being handled correctly.

After spending quite a while enabling and disabling random mods, I finally figured this out.
HelpTab is re-adding the recipes, I'm not exactly sure why yet, but it seems to do it by accident when it builds it's help database.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 26, 2017, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: Antaios on June 26, 2017, 10:47:45 PMHelpTab is re-adding the recipes, I'm not exactly sure why yet, but it seems to do it by accident when it builds it's help database.

OK. Well, thanks for the info. I'll have to look into that. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: leeadriancatfox on June 27, 2017, 01:52:31 AM
VG's fertilizers, compost, soil, etc. shares the same name file with your mod- the only solution that i can think of is renaming some of your ingredients, just to coexist with it. Your Fertilizers and VG's Fertilizers are two different items yet shared the same name. So every time I attempt to create your fertilizers or dig up some soil i end up making the VG's version product.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 02:10:07 AM
Quote from: leeadriancatfox on June 27, 2017, 01:52:31 AM
VG's fertilizers, compost, soil, etc. shares the same name file with your mod- the only solution that i can think of is renaming some of your ingredients, just to coexist with it. Your Fertilizers and VG's Fertilizers are two different items yet shared the same name. So every time I attempt to create your fertilizers or dig up some soil i end up making the VG's version product.

As I note in the "Compatibility" section of this mod's description, if you're using "Fertile Fields" and "Vegetable Garden" together, you need to make sure that "Vegetable Garden" loads first. That will allow "Fertile Fields" to overwrite the terraforming options in "Vegetable Garden," cleaning up the area where the two mods overlap.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: jackarbiter on June 27, 2017, 04:08:24 PM
Unless you've fixed this recently, I think the removing sand near shallow water is not properly giving piles of sand.

Great job otherwise, love the mod.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: jackarbiter on June 27, 2017, 04:08:24 PM
Unless you've fixed this recently, I think the removing sand near shallow water is not properly giving piles of sand.

That was fixed four updates ago, back on June 4. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: morgredblack on June 27, 2017, 07:30:46 PM
Why doesn't the create compost from corpse work?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 08:01:57 PM
Quote from: morgredblack on June 27, 2017, 07:30:46 PM
Why doesn't the create compost from corpse work?

It seems to be working just fine.... What exactly is the problem you're encountering? Are you not seeing the "cremate for compost" recipe?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 30, 2017, 05:56:25 AM
You have 2 times "packed dirt"
- packed dirt terraform
- packed dirt floor.

I think you shold rename the packed dirt floor into smooth dirt/terrain. So people don't think they could terraform the packed dirt floor into Soil.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 30, 2017, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: Canute on June 30, 2017, 05:56:25 AMYou have 2 times "packed dirt"

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean. There's only one "packed dirt" terrain in the game. It's one of the new "road" surfaces. "Fertile Fields" adds the ability to turn packed dirt into usable soil, or vice versa.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on June 30, 2017, 08:43:03 AM
Damn, yeah you right the packed dirt floor is part part of the tropical mod. I will suggest that at the other thread.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: MisterVertigo on June 30, 2017, 10:56:39 AM
I've been playing with this mod for a while now, and I'm far enough along in my colony that I've really used it a lot.

I was initially concerned with how I was going to get enough "rotted" food and things to make compost, until I realized I can turn dead raiders and other animals into compost with the crematorium. That worked really well, and since I don't turn dead raiders into hats, I now I have a use for all those dead raiders!

I made one mistake though. I was trying to place marsh in my killbox, and I accidentally used the farming tab and put "Fertile Soil" over some smooth stone, thinking I could then turn it into marsh. However, I was wrong as marsh only works on regular soil. So, I had to turn the rough granite into gravel, and then gravel into soil, and then soil into marsh. It worked out well though, and for the first time I was able to place marsh all throughout my killbox without having to use the admin tools!

Now I'm working on getting enough fertilizer to eventually get all my farmland maxed out with fertility!

Overall I think this is mod is balanced pretty well. If you want to transform the land to something else, it's possible but it does take a lot of work by your colonists. It's nice that you have to get resources like dirt, gravel, or sand to transform the terrain. There is a crafting process for making fertilizer too that I like. It's not too easy to get, so you can't just use it everywhere.

My only complaint is something that I'm not sure you can fix. It is slightly confusing with the number of icons on the Terraforming menu. I realize there are so many because there are lots of different types of terrain, but sometimes it takes a few minutes to figure out exactly what I need to place in order to get to where I want. Like I said before, to turn rough granite into marsh, I had to first turn it to gravel, and then to soil, and then finally marsh. So, I needed some crushed rocks, some fertilizer, and some dirt. I wish I could help you come up with an idea as to how to make it less confusing, but I'm not sure how. I'm only throwing this out there because it's something I encountered, but it's certainly not enough to keep me from using the mod.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for making this! I'm really enjoying using it and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on June 30, 2017, 12:05:56 PM
Quote from: Canute on June 30, 2017, 08:43:03 AM
Damn, yeah you right the packed dirt floor is part of the tropical mod. I will suggest that in the other thread.
Yep, it's from mine. I needed something to make my floor/path so I looked into Core. As dburgdorf It seems ;).
I will look into naming this otherwise in my mod (don't change anything for me, dburgdorf)...

But wait I'm thinking about something. dburgdorf could you correct me if I'm wrong, please ?
If I rename my modded floor to be called exactly like yours and mention to load your mod last; there is a way for me to make something like you did for yours and VG, in terms of integration?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 30, 2017, 12:49:40 PM
Quote from: MisterVertigo on June 30, 2017, 10:56:39 AMIt is slightly confusing with the number of icons on the Terraforming menu.

First, thanks for the kind words! Second, yeah, I'm not entirely happy with the menu, myself, but haven't really come up with a better option.

Shortly before a17 came out, I briefly toyed with the idea of replacing the current set of icons with icons based on what was being added or removed from a tile (for example, "add fertilizer" or "remove gravel" or whatever). But while that would have reduced the number of menu icons, though not necessarily by all that much when all was said and done, it would have ended up being substantially less intuitive.

The "obvious" way to simplify the menu would be to have just one icon for each soil type (for example, one icon that, when placed, produces soil from whatever was there before).  Unfortunately, that's not really workable, since each icon has to be attached to a specific action. I can't have just a single menu icon to turn a variety of different terrain types to dirt, as each of those conversions is a distinct action (technically a distinct "building" as far as the code is concerned), with its own cost, work amount, etc.

All that said, I am certainly open to suggestions, if anyone can come up with an alternative I haven't considered yet, or can point out a better and/or more flexible way to code things.

Quote from: kaptain_kavern on June 30, 2017, 12:05:56 PMIf I rename my modded floor to be called exactly like yours and mention to load your mod last; there is a way for me to make something like you did for yours and VG, in terms of integration?

I haven't actually created a new floor; the "packed dirt" in "Fertile Fields" is the same "packed dirt" used in vanilla for dirt roads. All I've done is add ways to create and destroy it.

Depending upon exactly what you've done with your floor, though, I'm sure we can come up with a way to make sure the mods integrate well. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: wwWraith on June 30, 2017, 02:26:15 PM
Regarding menu icons: maybe looking on right click options with them in Allow Tool (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=17218) could give you some ideas... Like one icon for every type of terrain that you want to get, then right click to choose its "source". Or vice versa.
Or maybe also one icon for wanted terrain but actually put "hidden" actions depending on the source. Maybe even automatically put next step designations when job finished (probably in a way similar to Quality Builder - https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=25188).
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 30, 2017, 02:56:13 PM
Are context-sensitive buttons possible?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: MisterVertigo on June 30, 2017, 03:02:42 PM
Quote from: wwWraith on June 30, 2017, 02:26:15 PM
Regarding menu icons: maybe looking on right click options with them in Allow Tool (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=17218) could give you some ideas... Like one icon for every type of terrain that you want to get, then right click to choose its "source". Or vice versa.
Would be be kind of like building a workbench like the butcher table, where you can right-click the icon and choose what you want to make it out of (or place it on in this case). You could click on "Soil" and choose that you want to place it on, like Gravel, Sand, Marsh, etc. It would then create the blueprint that requires whatever is needed to build it.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on June 30, 2017, 03:12:25 PM
Quote from: wwWraith on June 30, 2017, 02:26:15 PM
Regarding menu icons: maybe looking on right click options with them

I like that idea. I like it a lot. I'll see what I can do about actually implementing it.  ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on June 30, 2017, 10:47:00 PM
I suggest you take a look into Architect Sense

https://github.com/FluffierThanThou/RW_ArchitectSense

It shows multiple building icons grouped under a designator.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 01:14:22 AM
Quote from: notfood on June 30, 2017, 10:47:00 PM
I suggest you take a look into Architect Sense

Thank you! That will work perfectly!

And perhaps the best thing about it is that it doesn't even create a mandatory dependency. The XML defs for the subcategories -- like the "Seeds Please!" defs to create seeds -- are simply ignored if "Architect Sense" isn't installed.

So if a player has "Architect Sense" installed, they'll see a "Terraform" menu with a few icons representing target terrain types, with subcategories to select what terrain is to be converted.  But if they don't, they'll see the same menu that exists now.  :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: darkedone02 on July 01, 2017, 05:00:10 AM
So comparing this with tilled soil mod, does this mod give off a higher fertile soil then tilled soil mod or is this a bit weaker/balanced?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 01, 2017, 05:14:07 AM
The best soil give 180% fert., compare it self.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 08:00:03 AM
Quote from: darkedone02 on July 01, 2017, 05:00:10 AMSo comparing this with tilled soil mod, does this mod give off a higher fertile soil then tilled soil mod or is this a bit weaker/balanced?

I'd certainly like to think that "Fertile Fields" is more balanced, as that was my original purpose in creating it and remains one of my driving motivations in developing it.

It's been a while since I looked at it, but as I recall, with "Tilled Soil," you can upgrade almost any terrain tile to 200% fertility with very little effort and with no expenditure of resources. With "Fertile Fields," on the other hand, the best you can do without hydroponics is 180%, but that requires research, some effort on the part of your pawns, and the usage of resources (at the very least, fertilizer, which has to be purchased or created).
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 11:01:57 AM
Hey Dburgdorf I really love all your mods, they are a must for me now. I just wanted to ask you something, as you already added the 'remove packed dirt to create soil' can you make packed dirt buildeable? Like for making paths. I saw that the rainforest mod has it, but it has conflicts with some of my mods. I think that it will be a fine addition to yours.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on July 01, 2017, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 11:01:57 AM
Hey Dburgdorf I really love all your mods, they are a must for me now. I just wanted to ask you something, as you already added the 'remove packed dirt to create soil' can you make packed dirt buildeable? Like for making paths. I saw that the rainforest mod has it, but it has conflicts with some of my mods. I think that it will be a fine addition to yours.

Dirt path for my tribal colony! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 01, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Nameing bug:
You got 2 "Deep water" terraforms, but the 1. should be named as "Shallow water" because the result is shallow water.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 12:42:26 PM
Quote from: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 11:01:57 AMI just wanted to ask you something, as you already added the 'remove packed dirt to create soil' can you make packed dirt buildeable?

Already done. You can create packed dirt from soil, just as you can create soil from packed dirt.

Quote from: Canute on July 01, 2017, 12:06:49 PMYou got 2 "Deep water" terraforms, but the 1. should be named as "Shallow water" because the result is shallow water.

Yeah, I'd already spotted that one. It'll be corrected in the next update. Thanks, though. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 12:42:26 PM
Quote from: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 11:01:57 AMI just wanted to ask you something, as you already added the 'remove packed dirt to create soil' can you make packed dirt buildeable?

Already done. You can create packed dirt from soil, just as you can create soil from packed dirt.

Uh... I dont see it, in what option it is? Because I dont really see it.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 01, 2017, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 12:42:26 PM
Quote from: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 11:01:57 AMI just wanted to ask you something, as you already added the 'remove packed dirt to create soil' can you make packed dirt buildeable?

Already done. You can create packed dirt from soil, just as you can create soil from packed dirt.
I think that is not was Eluxor wanted.
Like i reported early, Packed dirt from the other mod is a Floor, while your packed dirt is a terrain.
Eluxor, just wanted a Packed dirt floor, that is build like smooth floor to prevent flora regrowth on that spot.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 03:27:35 PM
Quote from: Eluxor on July 01, 2017, 03:09:35 PMUh... I dont see it, in what option it is? Because I dont really see it.

It's right on the "Terraform" menu, in between the options to create gravel and the options to create soil. Doesn't even require any research to unlock it. Been there since the last update.

Have you perhaps not updated since the latest version came out on the 18th?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 01, 2017, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: kaptain_kavern on June 30, 2017, 12:05:56 PM
If I rename my modded floor to be called exactly like yours and mention to load your mod last; there is a way for me to make something like you did for yours and VG, in terms of integration?

I just responded on your mod's thread, but I'll respond here, too.

First, don't bother changing your floor's defName; doing so would risk breaking saves for anyone who's already got it on a map. ;)

Second, I can very easily handle the compatibility from my end, anyway. The next version of "Fertile Fields" will make sure that any attempt to turn packed dirt to soil will work on either type of packed dirt (either the vanilla road surface or your custom floor), and will also patch your packed dirt so it can't be directly constructed, so that packed dirt floors/paths/whatever will have to be constructed via my mod's terraform soil to packed dirt option.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 02, 2017, 04:42:42 AM
dburgdorf,
just a question. I though you and dismar worked together so fertile fields overwrite/inject the stuff from VG.
Shouldn't then serveral item from VG disapear ?
Pile of dirt/Pile of Dirt
Fertilizer/Fertilizer
I don't think compost starter could be removed since it isn't needed.

FF is loaded after VG like you suggest.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Canute on July 02, 2017, 04:42:42 AMjust a question. I though you and dismar worked together so fertile fields overwrite/inject the stuff from VG.

Dismar and I haven't "worked together" on it; honestly, I'm not sure he's more than passingly aware that my mod even exists. ;) But otherwise, your statement is correct. If "Vegetable Garden" is loaded before "Fertile Fields," then duplicate items and functionality will be removed so that only the "Fertile Fields" versions remain.  There will be only one version of "Pile of dirt" and one version of "Fertilizer," for example, and you'll only be able to obtain/create them in the ways defined by "Fertile Fields."

And I just confirmed again, with the newest version of "Vegetable Garden," that all of that is working exactly as it's supposed to.

That said, though....

I haven't had a chance to look into it, but I've been told that the "Help Tab" mod re-adds some of the recipes from "Vegetable Garden" that should be deleted. It's possible that other mods interfere with my attempt to clean up the overlap, as well. So if you're seeing things from "Vegetable Garden" in your game that shouldn't still be there (recipes, items, or whatever), letting me know what they are and what other mods you're using that might be impacting things, could be helpful.

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: wwWraith on July 02, 2017, 09:44:43 AM
A sudden thought just came to my mind: why the dirt, sand and clay are deterioratable? :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: wwWraith on July 02, 2017, 09:44:43 AMA sudden thought just came to my mind: why the dirt, sand and clay are deterioratable? :)

They originally weren't, but someone pointed out that they ought to be, and I agreed.  Think about it....

If you leave a pile of sand outside untended, and come back a week later....

Are you likely to still have a pile of sand?  :)

Rain and wind.  :D

(Granted, really large piles are more durable, but even so, they can suffer attrition over time. And clay's probably less likely to be affected by the elements than dirt, and dirt less so than sand, but I do have to make *some* effort to keep things simple.)

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 02, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
Load Help Tab last so it gets a chance to calculate the recipe changes after LongEventHandler.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: wwWraith on July 02, 2017, 11:10:11 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
If you leave a pile of sand outside untended, and come back a week later....

Hmm, my experience says that I'll definitely find it as I left it. Maybe after a year... And with this point pretty much everything should be made deteriorating: steel, stones, buildings... So probably it's the matter of the speed of these processes irl, and 5/5/1 rates for sand/dirt/clay seem a way too fast. Maybe 2/1/1... Anyway, you are the boss, I wrote it just to be sure that it wasn't accidental :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Antaios on July 02, 2017, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: notfood on July 02, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
Load Help Tab last so it gets a chance to calculate the recipe changes after LongEventHandler.

If this is with regards to the VG fertiliser recipes, the load order didn't matter, just tested with helptab last aswell...
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 02, 2017, 12:06:14 PM
Aye, just put it at the last spot too, nothing change.
The recipes are all ok, no VG active, but 3 resource items.
Pile of dirt/Pile of Dirt     
Fertilizer/Fertilizer       
compost starter

At the first one i think its a matter of capital letter. I think something similar for Fertilizer maybe.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 12:57:58 PM
Quote from: Canute on July 02, 2017, 12:06:14 PM3 resource items.

I'm going to assume that you're using the most recent versions of both "Fertile Fields" and "Vegetable Garden." If not, well, you need to update your mods. ;)

If you load the game with just "Fertile Fields" and "Vegetable Garden" installed (with FF loading after VG), you will find that you have only one item called "pile of dirt" (regardless of capitalization), only one item called "fertilizer," and no item called "compost starter." So as I said earlier, presumably, something else in your mod list is somehow adding back VG's items. As a shot in the dark, I'd assume it's because that other mod is patching those items for some reason.

If you can narrow down which mod seems to be responsible, I can take a look and see about dealing with it. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 02, 2017, 05:28:27 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 12:57:58 PM
If you can narrow down which mod seems to be responsible, I can take a look and see about dealing with it. ;)
Since this is no real worse thing, i am to lazy to play around with the modlist. I just tried at last to move FF and VG at the end of the modlist, but that didn't change any. Maybe i find it on accident. :-)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 05:49:31 PM
Quote from: Canute on July 02, 2017, 05:28:27 PMSince this is no real worse thing, i am to lazy to play around with the modlist. I just tried at last to move FF and VG at the end of the modlist, but that didn't change any. Maybe i find it on accident. :-)

Fair enough. If you (or someone else) happens to figure out which mod seems to be involved, I'll certainly look into it, but in the meantime, as you said, it's not really a big deal, anyway.  :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 02, 2017, 06:50:32 PM
dburgdorf, is the source folder offered in the workshop/dropbox updated? Seems to be for A16.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 07:13:01 PM
Quote from: notfood on July 02, 2017, 06:50:32 PM
dburgdorf, is the source folder offered in the workshop/dropbox updated? Seems to be for A16.

Yes, the source folder matches the release. I couldn't release an old version of the source even if I wanted to, as I don't *have* old source. I only have a single version of each of my mods on my computer. (Yeah, I know, it's a bad habit to live so dangerously.) What makes you think it's for a16?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 02, 2017, 07:24:15 PM
Oh... the ThingCategoryDef.AnimalProductRaw confused me since it wasn't available for A17. You overwrote the whole ThingCategoryDef, I didn't notice.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 02, 2017, 07:28:07 PM
By the way, I made this.

https://gist.github.com/notfood/2192e87c4a10c467887e734eff055149

Your detour method was too invasive. I used harmony to make a friendlier patch.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 02, 2017, 10:26:46 PM
Quote from: notfood on July 02, 2017, 07:28:07 PMBy the way, I made this.

Thank you. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 04, 2017, 07:53:01 PM
dburgdorf, I made more things...

Hm. It's a lot to share so I'll post the mod.

Download (http://myon.slimed.org/HardcoreSK_FertileFields.zip)

I'm basically adapting the mod to HardcoreSK pack since we like your mod so much. I'm mixing FertileFields, Basic Bridges, SAL automation and Universal Fermenter.

When I was trying to adapt Fertile Fields I found that way too many things are hardcoded or searching for substrings, which made it impossible to add cleanly. So I decided to rewrite a portion of the mod... which required me to rewrite more and more. In the end I rewrote a lot, from the PatchOperations to the core ThingClasses you use, including the Defs.

You should really take a look at FertileFields.PlaceWorker_Dynamic and FertileFields.Building_Terraform at least.

Here is an example of the syntax they use:
<ThingDef ParentName="RFF_TerraformBasicBase">
  <defName>SoilF-Sand</defName>
  <label>sand</label>
  <description>PLACE ON: Fertile Soil.\nRESULT: Sand.\nGAIN: Two Piles of Dirt.</description>
  <uiIconPath>Icons/SoilF-Sand</uiIconPath>
  <modExtensions>
    <li Class="FertileFields.Terrain">
      <above>
        <li>Soil</li>
        <li>SoilRich</li>
        <li>MossyTerrain</li>
      </above>
      <result>Sand</result>
      <products>
        <Dirt>2</Dirt>
      </products>
    </li>
  </modExtensions>
  <statBases>
    <WorkToBuild>1250</WorkToBuild>
  </statBases>
</ThingDef>


Here is another example:

<ThingDef ParentName="RFF_TerraformAdvancedBase">
  <defName>Sand-WaterShallow</defName>
  <label>shallow water</label>
  <description>PLACE ON: Sand (near water).\nRESULT: Shallow Water.\nGAIN: Five Piles of Sand.</description>
  <uiIconPath>Icons/Sand-WaterShallow</uiIconPath>
  <modExtensions>
    <li Class="FertileFields.Terrain">
      <above>
        <li>Sand</li>
      </above>
      <near>
        <li>WaterShallow</li>
        <li>WaterMovingShallow</li>
        <li>WaterOceanShallow</li>
      </near>
      <result>WaterShallow</result>
      <products>
        <Sand>5</Sand>
      </products>
    </li>
  </modExtensions>
  <statBases>
    <WorkToBuild>1500</WorkToBuild>
  </statBases>
</ThingDef>


It's very flexible and it'd benefit you a lot. If I can convince you to use these methods I'll be happy. I personally like your mod a lot and I'd like to see it improve.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on July 04, 2017, 08:26:55 PM
Entirely xml configurable? It's beautiful ! ^^
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 05, 2017, 01:27:55 AM
Quote from: notfood on July 04, 2017, 07:53:01 PMdburgdorf, I made more things...

My wife and I have been out pretty much all day with friends, I just got home, it's late, and I'm tired, so I haven't had a chance to look at what you've done except very quickly just now, and I'm more interested at the moment in going to bed than in thinking. :D

I'm certainly willing to (and fully intend to) look it over more carefully, and assume I'll be able to make more sense of it when I take the time to do so, but any additional info you could provide about exactly what you've done would probably be helpful in getting me oriented, so to speak.  A private message would be fine.  ;)

The one thing I did notice is that it looks like some of your changes introduce mandatory dependencies. If that's the case, I'll be honest, it's going to be a hard sell. I understand that it's not really a big deal, but even so, the idea of requiring that a player install some other mod before they're able to use mine just doesn't sit well. I prefer that my mods remain independent of anything beyond the base game.

(OK, yeah, I utilize Harmony, but that's different, since it's directly included with the mods.)

Please understand, though, that these comments are the ramblings of a tired brain that hasn't even really looked at what you've offered yet. Everything may change tomorrow. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 05, 2017, 01:39:27 AM
Nono, overlook the extra mods. Those were going into the modpack along with yours. They were provided to replace the CompostBarrel and make a new Fermenting machine. Unrelated to the changes I want you to benefit from.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 05, 2017, 09:46:27 AM
Quote from: notfood on July 05, 2017, 01:39:27 AMNono, overlook the extra mods. Those were going into the modpack along with yours....

OK, that makes more sense, then. I thought the whole package was intended as suggested changes to "Fertile Fields." :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: ertzuiop on July 07, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
Is this error messages known?

Looked for nonexistent key VG_Compost in counted resources.
Looked for nonexistent key RawFertilizer in counted resources.
Looked for nonexistent key VG_PileofDirt in counted resources.

Its spamming my debug log.
Dunno if its caused by this mod or vegetable garden.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 07, 2017, 08:58:27 AM
Make sure that "Fertile Fields" appears *after* "Vegetable Garden" in your mod load order.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: ertzuiop on July 07, 2017, 09:07:15 AM
It is right after vegetable garden
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 09:44:28 AM
Quote from: ertzuiop on July 07, 2017, 08:54:18 AMIs this error messages known?

First question: Are you trying to load a saved game after changing mods, or is this happening with a brand new game?

Second question: Do you have any other mods installed that might be looking for the "Vegetable Garden" items that "Fertile Fields" removed?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 08, 2017, 03:02:03 AM
- I just notice, at dub's hygiene you can create "night soil" a 90% fert. terrain.
Could you maybe expand the soil terraform on marschy soil to work on any terain with 70%+ fert. ?

- Currently there is no way to remove ice. Basicly i can understood the reseaon behind, but since you allow to modify deep water, and ice isn't just frozen deep water. Why not adding a new terraform ice -> shallow water  10 dirt, but 2-5x so much work like the deep water terraform ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: ertzuiop on July 08, 2017, 03:28:08 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 09:44:28 AM
Quote from: ertzuiop on July 07, 2017, 08:54:18 AMIs this error messages known?

First question: Are you trying to load a saved game after changing mods, or is this happening with a brand new game?

Second question: Do you have any other mods installed that might be looking for the "Vegetable Garden" items that "Fertile Fields" removed?

Both fertile fields and vegetable garden were included with new game and with no changes in list order, but a couple other mods were added into save (just ones that are save friendly)
Cant tell if there is another mod looking for it. Installed quite alot in advised order.
Attached mod list


[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 08, 2017, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: Canute on July 08, 2017, 03:02:03 AMI just notice, at dub's hygiene you can create "night soil" a 90% fert. terrain. Could you maybe expand the soil terraform on marschy soil to work on any terain with 70%+ fert. ?

I'll take a look at it. I probably won't add a generic "works on any soil of fertility X," as that's far too ambiguous for my tastes, but I could certainly add the specific "night soil" by name to the list of viable sources for that terraform option.

Quote from: Canute on July 08, 2017, 03:02:03 AMCurrently there is no way to remove ice.

I've never actually played on an ice sheet, but yeah, I should probably allow something to be done with ice.

Quote from: ertzuiop on July 08, 2017, 03:28:08 AMCant tell if there is another mod looking for it. Installed quite alot in advised order. Attached mod list

As I've told other folk with mod conflict issues and very long mod lists, I'm afraid I just don't have the time to work through a huge list of mods to try to track down a problem that I might not even be able to reproduce in the first place. The errors you're seeing haven't been reported by anyone else, so presumably, they're related to some other mod you're using. If you can track down which mod or mods are responsible, I can certainly look into it. Otherwise, though, there's really not much I can do.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 08, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
I have a simple one :)
Just a Wrong Name.

The construction of "shallow water" on "deep water" is called "deep water".
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 08, 2017, 09:39:59 AM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 08, 2017, 09:15:08 AMI have a simple one :) Just a Wrong Name. The construction of "shallow water" on "deep water" is called "deep water".

Yep. Already fixed in the in-progress update, which really will be ready for release soon. I promise. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 08, 2017, 12:33:09 PM
Great :)

But to be honest, I am quite content to Not Update a Bunch of mods every day.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Sefiriot on July 08, 2017, 02:23:00 PM
Quote from: ertzuiop on July 08, 2017, 03:28:08 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 09:44:28 AM
Quote from: ertzuiop on July 07, 2017, 08:54:18 AMIs this error messages known?

First question: Are you trying to load a saved game after changing mods, or is this happening with a brand new game?

Second question: Do you have any other mods installed that might be looking for the "Vegetable Garden" items that "Fertile Fields" removed?

Both fertile fields and vegetable garden were included with new game and with no changes in list order, but a couple other mods were added into save (just ones that are save friendly)
Cant tell if there is another mod looking for it. Installed quite alot in advised order.
Attached mod list

You could try moving Fertile Fields to after both VG and the Seeds Please mods-- I see you have the Seeds Please Vegetable Garden version, and that strikes me as a potential source of the errors when loaded after Fertile Fields, since I imagine that whatever FF overwrote on VG, in turn gets overridden by Seeds Please. Try that and see if that solves the problem?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 12, 2017, 02:22:08 AM
SeedsPlease and its addons don't touch anything outside their seed scope. Nothing gets overwritten, it merely adds content.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Sempius on July 18, 2017, 06:32:09 AM
Quote from: ertzuiop on July 07, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
Is this error messages known?

Looked for nonexistent key VG_Compost in counted resources.
Looked for nonexistent key RawFertilizer in counted resources.
Looked for nonexistent key VG_PileofDirt in counted resources.

Its spamming my debug log.
Dunno if its caused by this mod or vegetable garden.

I'm having this issue too! I believe (very innocently as I know next to nothing about modding) it may be because of deteriorating piles of dirt, sand, etc. And the game might be looking for those somewhere in your stockpiles but can't find it.
Also why would a pile of dirt deteriorate? lol
Great mod nonetheless!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 18, 2017, 06:58:04 AM
Why does a pile of dirt deteriorate ? :-) Once you have a pile, then some wind blow and you have a smaller pile. Some visitor walks over it, the pile geting even smaler because their feets carry the dirt into your rooms. Some animal need some dirt for their nest/hive place and puff the pile is gone.

What is your modload order, is VG before or after Fertile fields ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on July 19, 2017, 12:03:39 PM
Love the Mod it is now part of my standard play setup.

My only suggestion would be to make it so that you needed to re-plough a tile after harvesting a crop from it. More labour intensive but the reward is certainly there. Maybe a plough earth button similar to the forbid sowing button.

Anyway just a thought. 
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 21, 2017, 10:36:06 PM
OK, finally, after far too long, Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated again:

- Sandbags are now made from sand and cloth instead of from steel.

- It is now possible to convert ice to shallow water.

- Brick walls and floors now have unique textures with white mortar, so they actually look more like real brick walls. The color has also been "toned down" a bit. (Note that brick walls constructed prior to this upgrade will retain the old, standard block wall texture.)

- Brick walls and floors now cost slightly less to build than their stone block counterparts, both in terms of resources and in terms of effort.

- The recipe to cremate a corpse for compost now actually defaults to allow humanlike (and only humanlike) corpses to be used, as it should have all along.

- The compost yield from cremating corpses has been cut about in half.

- The mod's custom soil and rich soil textures are now less overpoweringly reddish in color.

- Dirt, fertilizer, compost and sand piles now deteriorate more slowly.

- If Fluffy's "ArchitectSense" mod is installed, the Terraform menu will be more compact and easier to navigate, utilizing submenus. Otherwise, the Terraform menu will be unchanged from the previous version.

- The mod now treats the packed dirt terrain added by "TropiCKAPP" (a rainforest mod) exactly the same as it treats vanilla packed dirt.

- If Dub's "Hygiene" mod is in use, "night soil" can be terraformed with the same options that can terraform marshy soil.

- The code related to terraforming has been streamlined, as per suggestions made by Notfood. As a side effect, terraforming functions are now fully configurable from within the XML defs of the relevant "buildings."

- Finally replaced the detour of the CompRottable method with a Harmony patch. Thanks again to Notfood for showing me how!

- Added German language translation files provided by Ryder32x.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: notfood on July 22, 2017, 12:53:15 AM
Nice.


<ThingDef ParentName="RFF_TerraformBase">
<defName>RockyDirt-Stone</defName>
<label>rough stone from rocky dirt</label>
<Description>PLACE ON: Rocky Dirt.\nRESULT: Rough Stone.</Description>
<modExtensions>
<li Class="RFF_Code.Terrain">
<above>
<li>RockySoil</li>
</above>
<result>Granite_Rough</result> <!-- map-appropriate rough stone type -->
</li>
</modExtensions>
<statBases>
<WorkToBuild>5000</WorkToBuild>
</statBases>
<researchPrerequisites><li>RFF_Terraforming</li></researchPrerequisites>
<CostList>
<CrushedRocks>1</CrushedRocks>
</CostList>
<uiIconPath>Icons/RockyDirt-Stone</uiIconPath>
</ThingDef>


Any reason you didn't like the use of <resultSpecial>Natural</resultSpecial> ?
The method I used checked for the perlin noise of the map to get the natural stone at the location instead of getting a random one.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 22, 2017, 12:55:46 AM
Quote- The compost yield from cremating corpses has been cut about in half.
I don't think you can made this dynamic, based on the bodysize/mass ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 01:04:59 AM
Quote from: notfood on July 22, 2017, 12:53:15 AMThe method I used checked for the perlin noise of the map to get the natural stone at the location instead of getting a random one.

I played with your method a bit, but didn't really like it. The problem is, there's no "set" grid of natural stone underlying a map. Each time your routine was called, it seemed to generate a new random map of natural stone types. So the end result of converting a large area to stone was an erratic patchwork of stone types, rather than large areas of consistent stone. And worse, if that stone was covered with soil and then converted back, it would produce a *different* patchwork pattern.

My random system actually produces more consistent and less patchy results.  :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 01:06:41 AM
Quote from: Canute on July 22, 2017, 12:55:46 AMI don't think you can made this dynamic, based on the bodysize/mass ?

So far as I'm aware, there's no way to set a recipe to have variable output depending upon the ingredients used.

(That said, I'd love to be proven wrong, as it would be great if compost from cremation could be based on body mass.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 02:28:03 AM
Quote from: Canute on July 22, 2017, 12:55:46 AM
Quote- The compost yield from cremating corpses has been cut about in half.
I don't think you can made this dynamic, based on the bodysize/mass ?

Aaaaawww .. no more rat-farming for compost :)
But wait .. halved means it is still effective .. especially early on with KaptainKaverns Campfire Cremation.

Based on 15 rotten mush get me one compost .. so everything below 75 meat got me more compost than the lengthy process.

Halved means, 37, which are still most of the tiny critters :) yai .. with the added bonus that no leather is created ..
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 02:28:03 AM
Halved means, 37, which are still most of the tiny critters :) yai .. with the added bonus that no leather is created ..

You apparently missed the other cremation-related update note:

"- The recipe to cremate a corpse for compost now actually defaults to allow humanlike (and only humanlike) corpses to be used."

I realize now that the wording is a bit misleading. It's not just that the recipe defaults this way; it's that the recipe only ever works this way. There's no more animal cremation for compost, specifically to stop cremation of tiny critters for huge gain. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 22, 2017, 09:03:56 AM
SpaceDorf, i think you will agree with me that we roast dburgdorf over some campfire until he find a way to cremate animal for raw compost by bodysize ! :-))
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 09:59:52 AM
Hmm. Well, I don't fancy being roasted, so let me see what I can do. I've got an idea that might work. I just have a new (somewhat silly) mod to finish up and release first. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 10:08:01 AM
=== EDIT ===

the dorf got ninjad by not A dorf  ..

but if you are not a dorf, has the dorf been ninjad then ?

=====

I hope you have VG installed .. we will need apples for this.

But I read "defaults to " as humans are now activated fromt he start instead of the only option, and I was so busy turning rotten mush into chemfuel that I did not notice ...

and I wanted to complain about suggest something completely different.

I took Fertile Field to the Jungel for the first time.
Green Hell .. Pah, try growing on rocky dirt.
What I noticed though, was that there is a bottleneck between marsh and marshy soil.
Coming from the water side of things, marshy soil is the first to support buildings and a huge step up in fertility.
Which is nice, if I wanted to farm there, create soil and shit, but if I want to build I have to pave the shit over or turn
it into rocky dirt which even gives me two dirt instead of one dirt and one compost ..

So I was thinking there should be an industrial solution to marshes, instead of putting soil and fertilizer in the ground to make it more fertile but even more swampy .. lets put sand and gravel on top of it and make it less fertile but more stable.

In comparison from marsh to rocky dirt via marshy soil costs me one fertilizer and gains me one dirt.
from marshy soil to soil would cost me only another fertilizer and 2 dirt.
while the cost from rocky dirt to soil is : 3 dirt, 1 fertilizer and 1 gravel  given that fertilizer is the only thing I can create from "nothing " and the backward gain from soil to dirt is again only 3 dirt and no gravel ..
And I totally lost myself there, because this has nothing more to do with what I actually wanted which is simple :

marsh + 2 gravel,  1 sand/dirt = rocky dirt  ... with the new gui there is room for more recipes   ;D
..
which is awesome because it leads back to the beginning .. I don't have to burn critters for ungodly amounts of compost or sell my colonists on that appeasing the great earth mother bullshit.  ( btw. the best fertilizer comes from fresh cthulhu meat )

==== 2nd Edit ====

just add a recipe to the concrete add-on .. one bag of concrete for marshy soil, two bags of concrete for marsh and three bags for shallow water ... after that 7 cloth for green carpet  ;D ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 22, 2017, 10:25:49 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 09:59:52 AM
Hmm. Well, I don't fancy being roasted, so let me see what I can do. I've got an idea that might work. I just have a new (somewhat silly) mod to finish up and release first. ;)

Thats all  i wanted to read, but in case i will grow some apples ! :-)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on July 22, 2017, 10:43:40 AM
How about you just make different recipes for cremation.

Cremate small creatures.
Cremate medium sized cretures.
Cremate large creatures.
Cremate huge creatures.
Cremate humans.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 22, 2017, 11:06:23 AM
And for any mod that add new animals a comp. patch ?
I think there should be a better solution.

When i point at mending mod.
You got a recycle appearal feauture too. The tailor reduce the the durability of the appearal and geting for each step some resources until it is gone.
Maybe something similar for corpses, the worker reduce the mass or nutri of the corpse and gain raw fertizizer.

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on July 22, 2017, 11:41:43 AM
Im no modder so i dont the hell anything about xml files.

But I know that animals have body sizes.

When you create a recipe how about making it like Cremate small animal all animals with body size 1 will be included in the recipe.(Just example, I dont knpw the real bodysize

So that new animal mods can be cremated based on their body size.

I don't what the hell Im talking about.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 11:47:31 AM
Yeah I dislike to many different recipies too .. I machining and the tailor table are only a few recipes short of a third column ..
.. without apparello ..

I need two cooking stoves two place all the cooking recipies I need ..

The comparison to recycling or smelting is better, I think there is some dark magic involved that reads numbers from recipies and calculates a output based on skill and item ( at least skully does that .. there are many variations )

Also the different recipies would mean you either calculate by weight of the critter which recipe is used ( which also gives us the output .. )
or sort them all by hand ..

What you could use is the meat amount of the animals, like the butcher recipie does but this also involves dark bloody magic.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on July 22, 2017, 11:54:44 AM
So we should define how much raw compost each animal one by one? Just like meat? And skills should also affect the product of the cremation?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 02:05:38 PM
Quote from: Mufflamingo on July 22, 2017, 11:54:44 AM
So we should define how much raw compost each animal one by one? Just like meat? And skills should also affect the product of the cremation?

Nope, Rainbeau should steal the method from butchering, take the meat value of an animal and compare it to the required nutrition value for one compost .. ( divide by 15, at least with rotten mush )
So the yield shout be between  1 compost ( rat - 20 meat ) and 32 compost ( thrumbo - 490 meat ) and the workamount should be per yield ( I don't know if this is possible )
This calculation actully gives less compost than butchering, when the meat amount is not dividable by 15, but I think even with a loss of 25% in the case of the rat, the comfort of the operation beats the micromanagement for yield.
Plus, there is no leather :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 02:30:11 PM
Minor update:

- The "cremate for compost" recipe again allows animal corpses to be used, but requires a minimum total mass of 50 kg, so a single squirrel corpse, for example, can't be cremated for the same yield as a human corpse.

(Creating a new method to allow ingredient requirements to be based on mass by copying the existing method that allows ingredient requirements to be based on nutrition was much simpler than creating an entirely new recipe handler, which would have been necessary to allow variable output based on differing input.)

(That said, this system isn't perfect. It calculates based on a thing type's "default" mass rather than on specific things' actual masses. But it's good enough for the moment, at least.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 10:08:01 AM
marsh + 2 gravel,  1 sand/dirt = rocky dirt  ... with the new gui there is room for more recipes   ;D

I'll have to spend an hour or two figuring out all your math, but if I'm not missing your point completely, you're suggesting that there should be a "one-step" method of converting marsh into some sort of terrain that can support heavy construction. Is that the gist of it?

Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 10:08:01 AM
just add a recipe to the concrete add-on .. one bag of concrete for marshy soil, two bags of concrete for marsh and three bags for shallow water ... after that 7 cloth for green carpet  ;D ;D

And now you're suggesting... Astro-Turf?  :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 02:36:07 PM
I'll have to spend an hour or two figuring out all your math, but if I'm not missing your point completely, you're suggesting that there should be a "one-step" method of converting marsh into some sort of terrain that can support heavy construction. Is that the gist of it?

Yes, Like I said in between, I lost myself in comparing conversion recipies with each other.
Based on the assumption : How many steps and how many ressources do I need when turning marsh into something else ..
and back. The basic assumption being normal fertile soil.
And like any good mathematician I mashed a few numbers together and may have skipped a step or two in between.
Mostly because of being tired and derailing my own train of thought .. while fascinating enough the numbers did not match ..

Quote from: dburgdorf on July 22, 2017, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 22, 2017, 10:08:01 AM
just add a recipe to the concrete add-on .. one bag of concrete for marshy soil, two bags of concrete for marsh and three bags for shallow water ... after that 7 cloth for green carpet  ;D ;D
And now you're suggesting... Astro-Turf?  :D


The 7 cloth may or may not be the vanilla requirements for carpet .. I am not 100% certain that this is not changed by a mod .. but if by Astro you mean  fake then yes :)
Pave it over and color it green

Thank you Google ..
I was not aware, that AstroTurf is a brand of synthetic turf .. me being european :)

====== EDIT ======

OCMe could not let go, I was pushing the numbers of the recipes around.

First off, your math is great, except for Fertilizer which acts as catalyst for gaining better soil, it really stays a zero sum game, when I keep in mind that everything else can somehow be produced from everything else.

I think what confuses me are the steps ..
and after following the steps around for a while I finally found out why marshy soil is such an itch on my brain.

Okay .. in my brain I sort like the menu .. there is rock as one extreme and deep water as the other extreme
which gives me a high side ( as in mountain ) and a deep side ( as in ocean ) of terraforming.
So fertility becomes the center or average between high and deep.

for example I can reach deeper, by removing dirt from soil and create marsh ..

or I pile up by creating marshy soil from marsh and mud ..

and there it is .. the sore tooth ...
I can only create marshy soil by piling up from below, if I have common soil I have to dig around marshy soil and then fill it from below .. this feels strange.

The other thing is Marshy Soil is the only recipe that changes two soil types, mud and marsh, into one, but without any single way to recreate one of them.
There is not one single recipe that creates mud, or creates something else from mud.

Which for one entangled itself with my suspension of disbelief, because the description and usage of marshy soil is now different than any other soil type.
And it robs me of the strategic value of mud.
Of the deep soiltypes mud has the distinctive feature of being slow ground but without allowing growth.
Similiar to shallow water but optically still being a firesave soil.

And while thinking about it, I also found at least some fitting recipes :

Digging Down into Mud gives Clay and generates Shallow Water.
Putting Clay back in Shallow Water generates Mud.

I still have no Idea how to get marshy soil from above .. because the only solution I can see is adding water instead of removing something ..

hmm .. removing crushed rock from gravel, and removing only one dirt from common soil could create marshy soil ..
remove what keeps the water out ..
or put sand and fertilizer into sand to keep the water in and create mud ..


sorry that got longer than I planned .. but it has satisfied my itching suspense of disbelief.
A way to pave over marsh would still be great, but thats just me being lazy and not wanting to give several terraforming orders bevor I can build ... Astro-Turf®
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 23, 2017, 12:30:00 PM
Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) has been updated:

- Added reinforced concrete doors to match the reinforced concrete walls.

- Concrete walls, doors and floors return crushed rock when deconstructed.

- Added embrasures that can be built from vanilla wall materials and from clay bricks.

- Moved embrasures from the Structure tab of the Architect menu to the Security tab.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 23, 2017, 01:55:55 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 23, 2017, 12:30:00 PM
Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) has been updated:

- Added reinforced concrete doors to match the reinforced concrete walls.

- Concrete walls, doors and floors return crushed rock when deconstructed.

- Added embrasures that can be built from vanilla wall materials and from clay bricks.

- Moved embrasures from the Structure tab of the Architect menu to the Security tab.

For once man, send an update before I load my savegame !!

TripleA ( awesome as always ) to have concrete doors, but for balance reasons you should
change the open speed of the doors to be closer to block doors than plasteel doors.

For a open speed comparison :
Blocks    : 45%
Uranium : 65%
Else       : 100% ( wood, steel, plasteel )

Funny enough it is a Stuff Property of the ressource Material.
If you apply this to the concrete ressource it changes the open speed.
Code Snippet taken from concrete bricks.

<statFactors>
<Beauty>0.8</Beauty>
<MarketValue>0.45</MarketValue>
<MaxHitPoints>1.6</MaxHitPoints>
<Flammability>0</Flammability>
<WorkToBuild>4.0</WorkToBuild>
<WorkToMake>1.0</WorkToMake>
<DoorOpenSpeed>0.45</DoorOpenSpeed>
<BedRestEffectiveness>0.9</BedRestEffectiveness>
<MeleeWeapon_Cooldown>1.35</MeleeWeapon_Cooldown>
</statFactors>
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 23, 2017, 02:08:20 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 23, 2017, 01:55:55 PM
For once man, send an update before I load my savegame !!

File your gaming schedule, in triplicate, with my admin assistant at least a week in advance, and I'll be sure to ignore it and continue on my merry way take it under advisement in deciding when to release future updates. :D

Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 23, 2017, 01:55:55 PM
TripleA ( awesome as always ) to have concrete doors, but for balance reasons you should
change the open speed of the doors to be closer to block doors than plasteel doors.

Good point.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 23, 2017, 04:22:35 PM
You asked for it; you got it.

- Reinforced concrete autodoors now open just slightly slower than stone block autodoors, instead of opening just as fast as plasteel autodoors.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on July 24, 2017, 08:27:34 AM
I'm enjoying this mod overall. Fertilizer production feels balanced as in slow enough that it offsets how powerful fertile fields are. Bricks are a nice addition. One thing that bothers me is sandbags: They're prohibitively expensive. Sandbags are meant as a quick and disposable fortification, yet the cloth requirement means you won't get them until you have a cloth industry - and even with a decently sized industry I can't seem to get enough to get a measly couple dozen sandbags built around my base. Consider cutting down on cloth. I think 10-20 per bag would be more reasonable.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 24, 2017, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: Schwartz on July 24, 2017, 08:27:34 AMOne thing that bothers me is sandbags: They're prohibitively expensive.

Fair point. I based the cloth requirement on the requirements for clothing items, figuring that it made sense (in real world terms) that a sandbag would probably use about as much cloth as a shirt or jacket. I hadn't considered (in game terms) the fact that you're likely to want to be able to build a lot more sandbags than shirts. :)

(I also hadn't really thought about how I was throwing off design balance. In vanilla, after all, you can build a bunch of sandbags as soon as the game starts, if you want to, because you've usually got a fair amount steel lying around. With my changes, while getting sand on most maps isn't a huge problem, even if you have to spend a bit of time sifting it out of dirt, the cloth requirement puts a harder bottleneck on the process.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on July 24, 2017, 09:57:30 AM
Something to mitigate: Having sandbag been able to be made from any fabrics (leather anybody?) not just cloth. For it to be accessible a bit earlier.

Folks could still use chunks in the meantime (for cover, not clothing :p )

PS: I've just made a mini mod for making sandbag movable  ;D   IMHO it is something you should add to yours for mitigate the heavier cost than in vanilla, maybe (it's just a matter of adding a MinifiedDef tag)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 24, 2017, 10:36:36 AM
With the concrete addon, sandbag don't made much sense then.
Special not when they are very expensive.
Concrete Embrasures are very "cheap" to build, sure maybe you don't have early access to concrete/cement, but most of the concrete i got/needed i got from visitor presents (Hospitality) or bought from visitor/caravans.

I think you should lower the sandbag cost to 1-5 sand, 1 textile.
Don't forget sandbags are destroy pretty fast too. And when you arn't in a desert you will have trouble with sand too, if you don't got a stonemill.

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 24, 2017, 10:53:35 AM
Quote from: kaptain_kavern on July 24, 2017, 09:57:30 AM
Something to mitigate: Having sandbag been able to be made from any fabrics (leather anybody?) not just cloth. For it to be accessible a bit earlier.

Folks could still use chunks in the meantime (for cover, not clothing :p )

PS: I've just made a mini mod for making sandbag movable  ;D   IMHO it is something you should add to yours for mitigate the heavier cost than in vanilla, maybe (it's just a matter of adding a MinifiedDef tag)

Leatherbags ! YES !! ..
Make them movable is a great Idea.
Then I was thinking, why not make Sandbags a construcion resource like bricks .. and deconstruct sandbags without loss ..
then it hit me :
the perfect simulation of a sandbag would be to make it a kind of chunk.
repairing a bag of sand is unrealistic.
but if you produce them and then haul them to a designated stockpile, like chunks, it becomes like real sandbags.
Large, unwieldy bags of sand, that are cheap, still can be moved easiely but need a lot of space at the same time.

The difference between clothing production and bag construction is that clothing production produces more waste, because
forms are cut out of square sheets. While bags are square sheets sewn together.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on July 24, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
Canute: Unless Rainbeau's embrasures work very differently than ED's embrasures, they don't fill the same role as sandbags at all. Sandbags are waist-high cover that can be climbed over. Embrasures are walls that let projectiles pass through.

I think 1 sand is fine as it is. You need 1 unit of terrain for most terraforming jobs, too.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 24, 2017, 03:02:57 PM
Canute: Don't forget that you can obtain sand without too much difficulty on most maps even if you don't have deserts or beaches, just by "separating" dirt into sand and clay. No rock mill or stonecutting table needed.

SpaceDorf: I don't plan to completely revise how sandbags work, however much sense it actually makes for sandbags to be movable. But I will be lowering the cloth cost and allowing leather to be used as an alternative.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 24, 2017, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 24, 2017, 03:02:57 PM
SpaceDorf: I don't plan to completely revise how sandbags work, however much sense it actually makes for sandbags to be movable. But I will be lowering the cloth cost and allowing leather to be used as an alternative.

No worries I got carried away again .. but you have to admit the idea is sound.
Now go and work on dynamic traits  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 24, 2017, 08:00:38 PM
I can't make brick statues anymore, is that intended?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 24, 2017, 08:09:10 PM
Quote from: moonra on July 24, 2017, 08:00:38 PMI can't make brick statues anymore, is that intended?

Well, it wasn't *specifically* intended, since it had never occurred to me that anyone would make statues out of bricks, anyway. ;)

But, yeah, in order to give brick walls a unique appearance, I had to make bricks a different type of "stuff" than stone blocks.

But that new type of stuff could certainly be added to the definitions of other items that can be made from stone blocks, so they can again be made from bricks, as well.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 24, 2017, 09:01:35 PM
It made for some pretty interesting sculptures with that blood red color.

Also, I've been getting this every once in a while on the debug log:

Tried to place thing RottedMush877563 in a null map.
Verse.Log:Error(String)
Verse.GenPlace:TryPlaceThing(Thing, IntVec3, Map, ThingPlaceMode, Thing&, Action`2)
Verse.GenPlace:TryPlaceThing(Thing, IntVec3, Map, ThingPlaceMode, Action`2)
RFF_Code.CompRottable_CompTickRare:Postfix(CompRottable, State&)
RimWorld.CompRottable:CompTickRare_Patch2(Object)
Verse.ThingWithComps:TickRare()
Verse.ThingOwner:ThingOwnerTickRare(Boolean)
Verse.Pawn_InventoryTracker:InventoryTrackerTickRare()
Verse.Pawn:TickRare()
Verse.Pawn:Tick()
RimWorld.Planet.WorldPawns:WorldPawnsTick()
RimWorld.Planet.World:WorldTick()
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick()
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate()
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay()
Verse.Root_Play:Update()
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 12:01:18 AM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has suffered another update. Sorry, SpaceDorf. :D

- Sandbags now require less cloth (10 instead of 50), and can be constructed with leather if cloth's not available.

- Sandbags can now be minified and moved. Which makes sense, since sandbags are by definition not "permanent" fixtures.

- Most non-wall items that can be built from stone blocks can now again be built from bricks, as well.

(The errors Moonra reported should also be gone again.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 25, 2017, 02:50:51 AM
Many thanks for the always speedy updates!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 25, 2017, 04:11:53 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 12:01:18 AM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has suffered another update. Sorry, SpaceDorf. :D


I have to sleep sometimes .. but thank you :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mitsael on July 25, 2017, 02:27:29 PM
Thanks for this mod, it is very nice to see the concrete floor with real concrete .. Although I think that you abuse the hit points of the walls, only the commands of the mod "Glitter Tech" are a challenge for them
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 25, 2017, 02:49:01 PM
Someone who feels they are overpowered could ask for a ressource change ...

like the normal concrete walls are steel enforced ( which normal german concrete walls are in general .. )
and the second tier is plasteel enforced ..

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: Mitsael on July 25, 2017, 02:27:29 PMAlthough I think that you abuse the hit points of the walls, only the commands of the mod "Glitter Tech" are a challenge for them

Originally, the reinforced concrete walls were not nearly so tough, but I immediately had to deal with people complaining that they were "too weak" to serve as bunker walls, and pointing to other mods that add concrete and allow construction of much stronger walls. So I upped the walls' strength to put them more on a par with the walls from those other mods.

I suppose I could make the walls' strength configurable....
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on July 25, 2017, 04:00:42 PM
Might be better for your own sanity ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: kaptain_kavern on July 25, 2017, 04:00:42 PMMight be better for your own sanity ;)

What is this "sanity" you speak of? :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 25, 2017, 04:14:53 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: kaptain_kavern on July 25, 2017, 04:00:42 PMMight be better for your own sanity ;)

What is this "sanity" you speak of? :D

Overrated  ;D That's what it is ..
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 09:53:29 PM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated yet again:

- There are now two types of sandbags. Standard sandbags are made with cloth and sand, while heavy sandbags are more durable, and are made with leather instead of cloth.

- Corrected a stupid mistake that was causing all rock chunks created by stone to rocky dirt terraform actions to be granite.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 28, 2017, 03:05:00 AM
I don't seem to have recipes to get rid of mud, everything else is working fine, I think, but nothing to or from mud.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 28, 2017, 06:44:50 AM
Marshy Soil removes Mud ..
you get it after you research terraforming ( i think .. maybe as soon as farming was enough ..  ;D )

( told you rainbeau .. its confusing )
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 28, 2017, 12:57:52 PM
OK, SpaceDorf, I finally had a chance to really look at your post from last week about marsh, marshy soil, and mud, and I think I can address your concerns as follows:

(1) I'll remove mud from the "marsh -> marshy soil" terraform. In retrospect, that was an odd place to put it, anyway.

(2) I'll add a "soil -> marshy soil" terraform that gains you 1 pile of dirt. (This is the flip side of the "marshy soil -> soil" terraform that already exists, and costs 1 dirt and 1 fertilizer.)

(3) I'll make mud an optional step between soil and marshy soil, with the following new terraforms: "mud -> marshy soil" (gain 1 dirt), "marshy soil -> mud" (cost 1 dirt), "mud -> soil" (cost 1 fertilizer), "soil -> mud" (no cost or gain).

On a side note, I'd never considered that anyone might actually want to make mud. You're the first to ever suggest to me that it might be desirable to do so.

(4) I'll add a "marsh -> soil" terraform that will cost 2 dirt and 2 fertilizer, for those who don't want to bother turning marsh to marshy soil and *then* to regular soil.

I think that'll take care of all of your "itches."  :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on July 28, 2017, 02:28:05 PM
Its not really confusing. Its not that hard when you get used to it. In my first playthrough yeah I got overwhelmed but after a while I got used to it.  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 28, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 28, 2017, 12:57:52 PM
On a side note, I'd never considered that anyone might actually want to make mud. You're the first to ever suggest to me that it might be desirable to do so.

Must have been my inner child that noticed how useful mud is. I have to admit I never really noticed how useful mud is as a soil type before I compared them so thouroughly.
The actual usefulness of the mud is still bound to your mod, though. If I could not remove or create every soil type whereever I wanted there would be no use to mud at all.

Also Fertile Fields is the first mod that really slowed down my building progress. Turning everything piece of ground into rocky dirt before I build on it needs a lot of time and storage space.
build

Quote from: dburgdorf on July 28, 2017, 12:57:52 PM
I think that'll take care of all of your "itches."  :D

I think it does.  :-X A mod special tailored to my wishes ..
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 28, 2017, 03:50:54 PM
There's no way to make smart recipes like "Turn to Marsh" that would know the amount of materials and work it'd need to that from whichever terrain you put it on, right? That would make this mod soooo much less confusing.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on July 28, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
No, this would require alot more recipes for the teraform menu.
You would need a recipe for each possible terraintype to turn into Marsh.
And since this shouldn't be only just for Marsh, you need the same for Soil and all other types.
Thats why you just can terraform to the next step.
And if you did that a few times you get a feeling about it.

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 28, 2017, 04:13:12 PM
I wrote something longer, but deleted it, it started to make no sense anymore.

The short of it was : I think technically it is possible. But the effort required to implement this outweighs the use the option had. Furthermore the solution would be slow and possibly lead to memory or calculation crashes.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 28, 2017, 04:27:14 PM
No, it would reduce the amount of recipes on the Terraform menu, instead of the "Marsh from Soil", "Marsh from Marshy Soil" and "Marsh from Shallow Water" we have right now it would simply be "Turn to Marsh". The Terraform menu would have about a dozen recipes instead of the 27 it has now.

I'm not saying this would be easy or feasible, of course, I know nothing about programming.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 28, 2017, 04:44:33 PM
Quote from: moonra on July 28, 2017, 04:27:14 PMNo, it would reduce the amount of recipes on the Terraform menu....

You can reduce the number of icons on the Terraform menu right now, simply by installing Fluffy's "ArchitectSense" mod. If that's installed, the Terraform menu, instead of including one icon for each possible transformation, will contain just one icon for each destination terrain, with submenus to determine which terrain type you're switching from.  ;)

(I realize that's not as neat as what you're asking for, but what you're asking for -- a completely dynamic system that could determine the costs, etc., of the destination terrain based on the terrain you select to build on -- would require far more custom coding than I'm comfortable trying to tackle.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 28, 2017, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: moonra on July 28, 2017, 04:27:14 PM
No, it would reduce the amount of recipes on the Terraform menu, instead of the "Marsh from Soil", "Marsh from Marshy Soil" and "Marsh from Shallow Water" we have right now it would simply be "Turn to Marsh". The Terraform menu would have about a dozen recipes instead of the 27 it has now.

I'm not saying this would be easy or feasible, of course, I know nothing about programming.

Thats what Canute and I tried to explain .. with to much techno-babble I guess.

So here is the long version I deleted before in a hopefully coherent manner :

You would still require a minimal amount of buttons for each groundtype you have to change the ground below into this.
But instead of placing the recipe ( thats what it is called in the def files ) for turning one ground type into another by hand,
the computer has to look up the recipe ( or calculate it ) in real time, while you are dragging the area you want to convert.

The size of the  lookup table for the calculations or recipies ( which Rainbeau would have to create by hand ) would be the (number of ground types) squared .. while the numbers of calculating the correct recipie also increase by the size of the area you are dragging ( and be honest .. most areas are squares .. )

which gives us an algorithm that has to work with a number of steps that increase by the exponent of 4 .. in realtime, if unpaused while calculating everything else .. ,

Which brought me to my conclusion : slow, possibly unstable by overextending processing recourses and way to much effort for to little gain.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on July 28, 2017, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 28, 2017, 05:16:17 PM
Thats what Canute and I tried to explain .. with to much techno-babble I guess.

Ah, yeah, he said "recipes FOR the terraform menu" but I read it as "recipes IN the terraform menu", my bad.

I'll definitely give the Architect Sense mod a try, I had heard about it but didn't look it up.

Aaaand also my bad for not really seeing the "Place on marshy soil OR mud", too many recipes there, easy to miss it.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 29, 2017, 09:54:23 AM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated again:

- Mud is now an optional step between soil and marshy soil; both of those terrains can be converted to mud, and mud can be converted to either of them.

- It is now possible to convert marsh directly to soil, instead of having to do it with marshy soil as an intermediate step.

- Added a herringbone pattern brick floor for a bit of variety.

- Replaced the code-based deletion of VG items with XML patches. On the down side, if you're using "Vegetable Garden," your log file will now be spammed when you load the game with yellow "def-linked translation error" warning messages. On the up side, the VG items I want deleted should now actually stay deleted.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 29, 2017, 10:23:20 AM
Thank you :)
And before I started playing .. this is going awesome.

Now I can finally build the perfect Boot Camp.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: KitsuneKas on July 30, 2017, 12:38:36 PM
So I've been playing with your FF mod for a while now and I very much love having it. I've also had your concrete mod installed for a while, but sadly I can't say the same about it. I've done some number crunching and it seems like the concrete mod is in serious need of some balancing. The brick walls in FF are fairly balanced, though their work to make could be reduced a tad bit. They are somewhat underpowered compared to vanilla bricks but considering that excavating a single space of dirt gives you the materials to make 3 walls, it suddenly doesn't seem too bad. They're a high-work, low-cost alternative.

I don't want to make the post too terribly long nor do I want to make this post all about what's wrong with concrete, but I've attached a text file with my suggestions and reasons for balancing the mod. Lemme know what you think.

[attachment deleted by admin: too old]
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 30, 2017, 01:30:18 PM
Quote from: KitsuneKas on July 30, 2017, 12:38:36 PMI've done some number crunching and it seems like the concrete mod is in serious need of some balancing....

My first response, based on a quick look at your "suggestions" file: Wow. This is *exactly* the sort of well thought-out feedback that helps to make mods better. ;)

That said, obviously, I'll need to take some time to read over and consider it more carefully before I actually do anything about it. That won't happen today, but I should be able to spend some time going over your ideas later this week.

Thanks! :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 31, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 30, 2017, 01:30:18 PM

That won't happen today, but I should be able to spend some time going over your ideas later this week.


Meanwhile, to keep you from enjoying your free time to much, I found out why there were so many roof zones over
the huge river on my last game.
Whenever I create deep water from shallow water the game places a roof area over it .. like when building doors.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on July 31, 2017, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 31, 2017, 01:52:09 PMI found out why there were so many roof zones over the huge river on my last game. Whenever I create deep water from shallow water the game places a roof area over it .. like when building doors.

That makes no sense at all. Beyond the fact that the game shouldn't be adding roofs, anyway.... The roofs just stick around, unsupported? I wouldn't have thought the game code would even allow that.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 31, 2017, 02:39:24 PM
No they don't .. if there is no support only the yellow "build roof area" gets created, which then gets roofed by pawns, if there is support nearby.  ( there is a exploit, where pawns actually build a roof above a single door, to have a indoor dining room without walls .. )

if some intrepid player was to build a wall next to shallow water, while thinking to himself .. now that would make a nice moat,
and suddenly noticing that the moat was roofed ..
I then turned on the zone designation and observed the process.
When the deep water tile was finished, a yellow roof zone would be created.

Just to verify I built a deep water in the middle of a lake .. it seems the roof only gets created when support is in range.
If I place a "no roof area" before hand, no roof zone is created.

I am testing out shallow water from marsh now ..

===== EDIT 1 =====

nope .. maybe the game recognizes the creation of impassable tiles as wall or door, in this case an open door, because bullets can pass through ..

and sorry, I did not want to disturb your fine meal :P


[attachment deleted by admin: too old]
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: KitsuneKas on July 31, 2017, 03:28:49 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 30, 2017, 01:30:18 PM
Thanks! :D

Happy to be of service! I try to make a point of not just figuring out that something's off but why and how to fix it. Since I'm bad at doing things myself I might as well try to be as helpful as possible those that do things themselves. I'm great at theory, just terrible at execution.

Unless it's raider prisoners. I execute them just fine.

On a side note, I've been lurking since A15 (just now making a forum account) and have only just now realized that it's burg dorf and not debugdorf. Never noticed the r. ;D

Edit: I did actually think of something else about the FF mod not the concrete one, but right now I'm still bouncing a few ideas around and would prefer to come up with a more...concrete suggestion before I bring it up.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Jibbles on August 04, 2017, 04:21:13 AM
I just wanted to make some rich soil, but I should embrace the terraforming.  Thanks for creating this awesome mod!  Also.. Thanks for giving Randy a way to send me piles of dirt in my cargo pods  :P
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 04, 2017, 05:32:01 AM
Jibbles,
if you got enough fertilizer, you can craft at the Crafting spot
Make dirt x10
Extract sand/clay from dirt
to get more dirt.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 04, 2017, 06:46:30 AM
Rimworld is a Sandbox Game, it is to be expected that we play with dirt :)

Rainbeau ?, could you add a shovel and bucket to your mod ?
fitting to the right-tool-for-the-job mod
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on August 04, 2017, 02:31:44 PM
Can the reinforced sandbags be made to use any kind of hide? Right now it only allows cowskin, which is rare to say the least. Also it'd be nice if Thrumbofur was excluded from that.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 04, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: Schwartz on August 04, 2017, 02:31:44 PMCan the reinforced sandbags be made to use any kind of hide? Right now it only allows cowskin, which is rare to say the least....

I'll double check when I get home, but I'm fairly certain the recipe defaults to using *any* sort of leather. In the meantime, you can, as with most recipes, tailor what is and isn't allowed on the "details" tab for the recipe at the workbench.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on August 04, 2017, 02:46:41 PM
You're right.. weird that there was no popup the first time I tried to build the sandbags. Nevermind!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: moonra on August 04, 2017, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: Schwartz on August 04, 2017, 02:46:41 PM
You're right.. weird that there was no popup the first time I tried to build the sandbags. Nevermind!

I quite clearly remember this also happening to me, but it was a few days ago by this point and it was such a minor issue that I might be misremembering.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 05, 2017, 05:34:45 PM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated:

- It is now possible to extract sand and clay from dirt at a rock mill as well as at a crafting spot. Maybe now people will remember that the recipe exists. ;)

- It is now possible, as well, to convert dirt directly to clay at either a crafting spot or a rock mill. The yield is lower than if you first split the dirt into sand and clay and then as a separate step grind the sand into more clay, but the recipe allows for automation of bulk clay production.

- It is possible to fire bricks in a smelter, now, with a small gain in speed as compared to firing them in a smithy.

- Creating compost now utilizes the cooking skill, consistent with the fact that it falls under the Cooking work type.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 05, 2017, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 31, 2017, 02:39:24 PMmaybe the game recognizes the creation of impassable tiles as wall or door....

Just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about the weird "roofs over deep water" issue. I just haven't yet been able to figure out a way to prevent it from happening that wouldn't also prevent construction of roofs over water when you *want* the roofs there. :(
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 05, 2017, 06:00:07 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 05, 2017, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 31, 2017, 02:39:24 PMmaybe the game recognizes the creation of impassable tiles as wall or door....

Just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about the weird "roofs over deep water" issue. I just haven't yet been able to figure out a way to prevent it from happening that wouldn't also prevent construction of roofs over water when you *want* the roofs there. :(

Thank you :)
Take it slow with this one, placing a "no roof" area is such an easy workaround.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 05, 2017, 08:02:17 PM
Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) has also been updated, fairly significantly:

- Costs for concrete and concrete walls, and strengths of concrete walls, have been rebalanced to bring them more into line with vanilla materials. Cinder block walls are now much cheaper to build, and are actually a viable option for quick wall production. Poured concrete walls are now comparable in strength to granite walls, but easier to build in bulk. And reinforced concrete walls are no longer absurdly overpowered, but rather are just shy of plasteel walls in strength. Thanks to Ludeon forum user KitsuneKas for doing all the math and suggesting how things ought to be adjusted.

- To appease those who liked the absurdly overpowered walls, one final wall option has been added. Reinforced plasticrete walls are massive defensive fortifications constructed from layers of concrete, steel, plasteel and, according to some, the blood of sacrificial virgins.

- Deep water bridges from "Basic Bridges" now correctly leave crushed rocks instead of bags of concrete when deconstructed or destroyed.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 06, 2017, 03:36:41 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 05, 2017, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 31, 2017, 02:39:24 PMmaybe the game recognizes the creation of impassable tiles as wall or door....

Just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about the weird "roofs over deep water" issue. I just haven't yet been able to figure out a way to prevent it from happening that wouldn't also prevent construction of roofs over water when you *want* the roofs there. :(

At first i thought it is a vanila behavior, auto. assign build roof over deep water, because deep wate is impassable, and this is the only way to get roof over a large area of deep water.

But then i thought, Deep water isn't buildable at vanila and terraform is part of the collection with bridges. So when a player realy want roof over deep water, he still can build bridges to give the constructors a way to build the roof.

So i vote, no auto. build roof on deep water tiles !!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 06, 2017, 12:46:07 PM
DBurgdorf .. I came to complain.

but only a little.

The overall changes to concrete look really good. More in line with the rest of the game and the price and performance are fitting as well. And then the new name "reinforced plasticrete wall" sounds like Ian McKellen "You Shall Not Pass !"

What breaks the stride for me, is that the plasteel autodoor is more durable than the reinforced material.
While the reinforced plasticrete is more expensive and slower to open.

Sadly I can't remember the only quality that would make both equal .. is plasteel fireproof or not ?


Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 06, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on August 06, 2017, 12:46:07 PMWhat breaks the stride for me, is that the plasteel autodoor is more durable than the reinforced material.

Um, would you believe I screwed up the plasticrete doors' durability on purpose, just to see how long it would take you to notice?

No? Uh, well....

Anyway. It's fixed. Plasticrete doors now have the durability they should have had already.

And on a side note....

Who are you, anyway, and what did you do with the real SpaceDorf? Your picture's wrong!  :P
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 06, 2017, 02:19:16 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 06, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on August 06, 2017, 12:46:07 PMWhat breaks the stride for me, is that the plasteel autodoor is more durable than the reinforced material.

Um, would you believe I screwed up the plasticrete doors' durability on purpose, just to see how long it would take you to notice?


Sure I believe that .. involving the fanbase, and make them feel appreciated in small decisions ..

And I swear it's me .. I changed the picture , I thought it was time .. yarrr .. the mug is still the same though :)
I was even thinking of designing a pawnDorf like yours .. but Cobb and his "Ask Me About Loom" - Button
just felt so naturally fitting .. ( and just between us, the resemblance between modified him and real me is horrifying close ..
i am not grey .. as grey .. yet .. )
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on August 06, 2017, 02:20:05 PM
Is this the mod that adds bricks to the game? (IF NOT IGNORE THIS MESSAGE)

I can't make doors out of bricks. Was that intentional? I want a bricked door.  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 06, 2017, 02:31:56 PM
Quote from: Mufflamingo on August 06, 2017, 02:20:05 PMI can't make doors out of bricks. Was that intentional?

The lack of brick doors is deliberate(ish). Stone block doors don't make much sense to me, but I can't really get rid of them. (Well, I could, by removing "stony" stuff from the door recipes, which actually isn't a half bad idea, now that I think about it.... But I digress....) So I just never bothered to make a brick door recipe.

Quote from: Mufflamingo on August 06, 2017, 02:20:05 PMI want a bricked door.  ;D

You know what most people call a bricked door?  A wall!  :P
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 06, 2017, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 06, 2017, 02:31:56 PM

Quote from: Mufflamingo on August 06, 2017, 02:20:05 PMI want a bricked door.  ;D

You know what most people call a bricked door?  A wall!  :P


(https://media3.giphy.com/media/98jU7NxuNSSZ2/200.gif#3-grid1)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mufflamingo on August 06, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
But I want a door with a stony brick pattern.  :'(

Now I have to settle with wooden doors. Oh well.  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 02:36:49 AM
Is there a low tech way to get clay and/or sand without having to use the Rock Mill?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 16, 2017, 03:01:34 AM
Only if you got fertilzer.
At the crafting you can do 5x dismantle dirt into sand&clay.
And got enough sand/clay to made 10 dirt.

5
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 16, 2017, 08:18:57 AM
Quote from: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 02:36:49 AMIs there a low tech way to get clay and/or sand without having to use the Rock Mill?

You can split dirt into sand and clay at a crafting station, as Canute mentioned. No fertilizer is required. Fertilizer is only required if you're combining sand and clay to create dirt.

(And thank you, Canute, for pointing out that blatant violation of my "zero sum game" principle. Not sure how I missed that. It'll definitely be fixed in the next release.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 16, 2017, 09:33:52 AM
*snief*
it isn't a zero sum, you need fertizier.
And since fertizier isn't easy to get at beginning, i think it is still balanced.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Headshotkill on August 16, 2017, 10:43:44 AM
There should be a system where ground fertility lowers the more you use it for agriculture, forcing you to periodically compost it, like once a year or something.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on August 16, 2017, 10:48:32 AM
That would require a crazy amount of fertilizer (it's also the most difficult to get component of the whole process). I think what would be fair is if harvesting off tilled soil turned it back into rich soil, requiring it to be tilled again for the next batch. But unless that happened automatically it would be a pain to manage.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 12:45:30 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 16, 2017, 08:18:57 AM
Quote from: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 02:36:49 AMIs there a low tech way to get clay and/or sand without having to use the Rock Mill?

You can split dirt into sand and clay at a crafting station, as Canute mentioned. No fertilizer is required. Fertilizer is only required if you're combining sand and clay to create dirt.

(And thank you, Canute, for pointing out that blatant violation of my "zero sum game" principle. Not sure how I missed that. It'll definitely be fixed in the next release.)

Ok and how do you get dirt?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 16, 2017, 01:33:05 PM
Quote from: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 12:45:30 PMOk and how do you get dirt?

... By digging it up.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 16, 2017, 01:33:05 PM
Quote from: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 12:45:30 PMOk and how do you get dirt?

... By digging it up.

I should have been more specific. How do i get "Pile of Dirt"? In the past there use to be a "Digging Spot" but I cannot find it anymore. In the Vegetable Garden thread they said it should be under the "Garden Tools " tab but I have no such tab. The only tabs related to all this are; Farming and 2 Terraform tabs. One of the Terrafrom tabs is for the Fishing Mod while the other I think is for this mod. While the Farming tab I guess is for Vegetable Garden. Inside them are ...

Farming
Planter Box, Modular Planter Box, Modular Flower Area, Flower Area 2x2, Topsoil, Fertilized Topsoil, Rich Soil, Plowed Soil, Compost Bin

Terraform
Fish Feeding Box, Foundation Base, Platform, Dig up Water, Shallow Water, Deep Water, Marsh

Terraform
Stone, Rocky Dirt, Sand, Gravel, Packed Dirt, Soil, Mud, Marshy Soil, Marsh, Shallow Water, Deep Water

So yeah how do you "dig it up?"
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on August 16, 2017, 02:06:22 PM
When you use the terraform tools on natural terrains it gives you differents output.

Example: turning a soil terrain to rocky terrain will yield you several piles of dirt IIRC // Turning gravels to rocky terrain give you dirt + rocks and such

edit: Seeing your post in VG thread: I'm pretty sure RFF remove the digging spot indeed
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 02:21:06 PM
Ah ok no wonder I was so confused!  :o

Thanks for explaining it to me. I feel so stupid. It was so simple compared to the old way!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mitsael on August 16, 2017, 02:29:39 PM
Hydromancerx!
You must use Terraform options if you want dirt. Yes! At first it is difficult to determine which is which, but believe me, in the previous alpha was more difficult, now updated icons and are more illustrative.

Look at the colors, example: https://ibb.co/b3yVNF

In the image below, you see a red box that indicates the best terrain to get more dirt, you place the pointer over it and it will appear something like that;

Place on: Fertile soil <--- Place it on
Result: rocky Dirt <--- The terrain will be like this
Gain: Three pile of dirt <--- You get

The top icon is the terrain where you place that option and the lower icon of that same box is what the terrain is transformed into.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: kaptain_kavern on August 16, 2017, 02:36:36 PM
It took me quite some time to understand how it was working as well. But now I find it just perfect. The only reasonable way of making all those resources finite.

I'm even a bit jealous I haven't got the idea by myself ;-)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 16, 2017, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2017, 02:00:07 PMIn the past there use to be a "Digging Spot"....

I think you may be confusing "Fertile Fields" with "Vegetable Garden." VG has "digging spots," but FF never did. (It did once have "soil pits" which worked similarly as infinite sources of dirt, but those were eliminated back in February.)

In any event, I'd strongly recommend, if you're new to "Fertile Fields," reading the "getting started" document in the mod's "About" folder. It'll clarify a lot of how the mod works. :D

And I do apologize for the confusion. I try to keep everything simple and intuitive, but the mod's kind of grown beyond my ability to do so anywhere near as well as I'd like. (And of course, what seems obvious to me might be a complete "head-scratcher" for someone else.) ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Mitsael on August 16, 2017, 02:45:03 PM
Without this mod, the only way to get several terrains is with the creative mode or dev (I think that's how they call it) I call it the GOD mode  8)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 19, 2017, 01:21:25 PM
One of the nicer features VG has - is an ability to place soil on any constructed floors, which works especially nice with TiberiumRim mod, that can corrupt soils, permanently damaging its fertility to a useless level. I like playing with tiberium, but since that mod's terrain types can't interact with this mod's terraforming options - can you add an expensive ability to convert constructed floors back into normal soil?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 19, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on August 19, 2017, 01:21:25 PMCan you add an expensive ability to convert constructed floors back into normal soil?

I'm afraid you've lost me completely. What need is there to convert floors to soil -- a "conversion" which doesn't seem to make much sense, anyway -- when floors can be easily deconstructed to reveal the soil beneath them, anyway?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 19, 2017, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 19, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on August 19, 2017, 01:21:25 PMCan you add an expensive ability to convert constructed floors back into normal soil?

I'm afraid you've lost me completely. What need is there to convert floors to soil -- a "conversion" which doesn't seem to make much sense, anyway -- when floors can be easily deconstructed to reveal the soil beneath them, anyway?

I said it wrong, I guess. Not conversion, but ability place new layer of soil over constructed tiles, the way it works in VG. Tiberium from TiberiumRim mod corrupts the land so that it can't be interacted with by any of the tools terraforming in your mod offers and can't be used for farming. So even if you still can say place some wooden flooring over it, you can't ever use it for growing anymore unless you use some hydroponics. If we could construct some flooring over corrupted tiles, and then place some soil over it - we could really reclaim that land back. Maybe its too much to ask, since your mod doesn't really have any connection to TiberiumRim) Forgive me a moment of selfishness.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 19, 2017, 02:51:56 PM
I understood what the Madman wants :) ( to good, not to use )

== EDIT ==

Damn, Ninjad by the Madman himself :)

========

Turning ANY construced floor into soil would allow him to reclaim soil damaged or destroyed by other mods, which FF is not able to. Or putting soil on it, like you do with smooth rock.

His example is Soil destroyed by Tiberium. In addtion the Shipgenerator of the "Crashlanding Mod", and the "Quarry" Mod both generate a damaged soiltype not known to FF. ( I guess there may be more )

So creating soil from constructed floor would circumvent the percieved inability of FF to reclaim "unknown" soiltypes. 

The only other solution I can think of would be for FF to create another recipe .. buildable on any unknown, unfertile, not stony ground on which floor can be constructed which turns it into Rocky Dirt. Using the same basic recipe that turns rock floor into soil .. or which places soil onto rock ..

Based on this a question : if a mod adds new Rocktypes and Rock Floors .. does FF recognize them to build on ?

@Madman666 .. Did I get it right ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 19, 2017, 03:14:22 PM
Yep, exactly. Basically, what I want is a tool to sort of "repair" any type of terrain added by other mods and not recognized by terraforming options of RFF to normal soil type, so that it can be worked with RFF's terraforming tools. Most easily that can be achieved by letting us place soil on any constructed floors, as most modded terrain type allow for building on them.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 19, 2017, 03:23:21 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on August 19, 2017, 03:14:22 PM
Yep, exactly. Basically, what I want is a tool to sort of "repair" any type of terrain added by other mods and not recognized by terraforming options of RFF to normal soil type, so that it can be worked with RFF's terraforming tools. Most easily that can be achieved by letting us place soil on any constructed floors, as most modded terrain type allow for building on them.

Thats my suggestion in the end .. create a soiltype similiar to constructed floor and skip that step of building a floor at all ..
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 19, 2017, 10:30:04 PM
It wouldn't be terribly difficult to allow for "reclamation" of terrain types introduced by other mods into soil, if I know what they are. (The "night soil" introduced by Dub's "Hygiene" mod can already be converted to regular soil.) But I'd have to specifically allow for them.  This would honestly be my preferred option, even though it would require the most work, as it would be the most easily balanced.

A more general "turn any terrain that doesn't match a vanilla type into soil" conversion could be introduced, but I'd by extremely wary of adding such a thing, as it would put something in the mod that I'd literally have no idea what it might actually do.

I will *not* be adding a "convert floor tiling into soil" option, though, as such a thing just makes no in-game sense at all.  :D
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 20, 2017, 03:43:53 AM
I think i mention before in the past.
Terraform to soil based on fert. of the terrain.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 20, 2017, 06:00:12 AM
So, no way to reclaim terrain damaged\occupied by some terrain types from other mods... At least for now. Too bad. I guess I'll have to dig around the code and allow doing it for my own plays. Well, thanks for answers)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 20, 2017, 06:01:52 AM
At last not with this mod, you still can do it with VG mechanic, but not with VG+FF.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 20, 2017, 06:06:27 AM
Quote from: Canute on August 20, 2017, 06:01:52 AM
At last not with this mod, you still can do it with VG mechanic, but not with VG+FF.

Yeah, I know, that RFF disables that feature from VG, I am playing with VG for a long time now, but wanted to try some real terraforming. Maybe I'll be able to cancel the patch that removes this feature from VG for my run)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 20, 2017, 06:14:12 AM
Just try to change the modload order.
Make sure that "Fertile Fields" appears before "Vegetable Garden", maybe that give you some VG options. But not sure about this.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 20, 2017, 06:20:01 AM
Quote from: Canute on August 20, 2017, 06:14:12 AM
Just try to change the modload order.
Make sure that "Fertile Fields" appears before "Vegetable Garden", maybe that give you some VG options. But not sure about this.

I know a bit about how it works, even if changing the order does let me use VG options, it'll also create a mess, since terrain placement isn't the only thing RFF changes in VG. I'll have to experiment with that, but I don't think I'll have a clean playthrough without some xml editing. Letting one of existing RFF terrain placement options work on constructed floor shouldn't be too hard.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 08:56:49 AM
First, Canute, please don't recommend that anyone switch the load order of VG and FF. Loading FF before VG won't accomplish anything beneficial, and could result in duplicated items and/or half-functional options.  (I'm actually not sure just how much of a mess it would be now that most of the overrides are done via patch rather than code, but still, it wouldn't be pretty.)

As regards modded-in terrains, as I said last night, a generic conversion option would probably be the easiest "fix" to implement, though I'm not wild about the idea. I'd prefer to be able to tailor conversion requirements for specific terrains based on what those terrains actually are and how they're described in the mods that introduce them. That said, though, I may throw together such a patch today just to get it out there. (Maybe a pair of options, one to turn any unknown but nearly-fertile terrain into soil, and the other to turn any unknown and non-fertile soil to rocky dirt.)

I'm still confused about the constant return in this discussion to the idea of allowing constructed floors to be turned into soil. It doesn't actually address the issue at the core of the problem, it makes no sense from a conceptual angle, and it would be far too easy to abuse.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 20, 2017, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 08:56:49 AM
I'm still confused about the constant return in this discussion to the idea of allowing constructed floors to be turned into soil. It doesn't actually address the issue at the core of the problem, it makes no sense from a conceptual angle, and it would be far too easy to abuse.

The patch allowing to do that would be awesome. And if what I want could be achieved through several steps (modded non-fertile terrain -> rocky dirt (or other  low fertility terrain) -> gravel -> eventually normal soil - that kind of expensive and slow progression towards the goal of reclaiming land that been corrupted sound even better than placing soil over constructed floors to "cover" corrupted terrain. Placing soil over constructed floors is just easiest way to implement ability to reclaim land without actually delving into other mods contens to adjust your terraforming tools to each and every one of those, that have custom terrain types. I am in no way insisting on "soil over constructed floor", I just want ot have a way to combat any type of possible terrain damage\corruption given enough time and resources =)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: ChJees on August 20, 2017, 10:50:58 AM
Could we have a low tech way of creating crushed rocks and sand? Find it odd that we need electricity to smash rocks into smaller rocks :P. Mainly a concern since i use the Concrete add-on and would be nice to have a way, though slow to do it before you invest the 2700 research needed to do it with electricity.
Also cobblestone flooring and walls would be neat :D.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: ChJees on August 20, 2017, 10:50:58 AMCould we have a low tech way of creating crushed rocks and sand?

You can already get sand by separating dirt into clay and sand at a crafting spot. Hadn't actually thought much about crushed rocks, but adding a recipe to crack stone chunks into crushed rocks at a crafting spot, as well, would certainly make sense.

Quote from: ChJees on August 20, 2017, 10:50:58 AMAlso cobblestone flooring and walls would be neat :D.

Yeah, they would. Probably won't make it into today's update, since they'll require new graphics, but I'll definitely add them to my "to do" list.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 20, 2017, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: ChJees on August 20, 2017, 10:50:58 AMCould we have a low tech way of creating crushed rocks and sand?

You can already get sand by separating dirt into clay and sand at a crafting spot. Hadn't actually thought much about crushed rocks, but adding a recipe to crack stone chunks into crushed rocks at a crafting spot, as well, would certainly make sense.
I would vote for the stonecutter bench.
But since there is not mashine power just pure muscle hammer power, stone blocks instead of chunks.
1 block -> crushed rocks
crushed rocks -> sand
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: Canute on August 20, 2017, 12:09:06 PMI would vote for the stonecutter bench. But since there is not mashine power just pure muscle hammer power, stone blocks instead of chunks. 1 block -> crushed rocks crushed rocks -> sand

I can see using the stonecutting bench, and I might as well add a crushed rock to sand recipe, though without power, it'd obviously require a lot of work.

BUT....

I won't be adding a blocks to crushed rocks recipe, as that'd totally screw up the current balance. Or had you forgotten that one stone chunk produces 20 blocks? So instead of the current one chunk = 2 crushed rocks, you'd end up with one chunk = 20 blocks = 20 crushed rocks.

(And in any event, there's no reason at all that I can see to require stone chunks to be carefully cut into blocks before allowing them to be hammered apart into small rocks.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 20, 2017, 04:05:36 PM
Ops, sorry didn't notice the numbers, since i didn't saw any output numbers at the recipe_defs. And i rarely used/build the stonemill at all of my colonies so far.
I just though, for a pawn it is easyer to crush stone blocks into crushed rocks, then chunks. And since they do it all with hands they should have it easyer.
Then you should use 10 stone blocks for 1 crushed rock.
Don't forget to add a good amount of work, people need to have a motivation to use the stonemill ! :-)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on August 20, 2017, 04:49:44 PM
I think there shouldn't be too many redundant steps. Changing terrain has a chance to produce a stone chunk, changing it back takes a crushed stone chunk. It makes sense.

There are already a lot of recipes scattered over at least 4 workstations: The crafting spot, the forge, the furnace and the FF workstation. Some of these overlap, i.e. you can fire bricks at the smithy and the furnace. Less, not more. Ideally I'd like to see all recipes reduced to crafting spot, furnace and rock mill. Have a powered (rock mill) and an unpowered (crafting spot) job each and remove the duplicates. Furnace does all clay baking. You can make 1 clay + 1 sand out of 1 dirt.. do you really need two other jobs that makes 3 dirt into 4/5 clay respectively? Does it even make sense that way? But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 06:20:10 PM
Quote from: Schwartz on August 20, 2017, 04:49:44 PMI think there shouldn't be too many redundant steps.... There are already a lot of recipes.... Some of these overlap....

There are reasons for the "redundant" recipes. The recipes that turn dirt into only clay, for example, though less efficient in terms of total output than the recipes that turn dirt into both clay and sand, were specifically requested to allow automation of large-scale production. (You can't use the "do until you have X" option with a recipe that outputs multiple items.) You can fire bricks in either a furnace or a forge, as another example, in order to allow bricks to be produced more efficiently once you have electricity. And so forth.

If you want to get rid of some of the recipes and limit the options available in your own game, you're certainly welcome to edit the XML def files in any way you see fit. But I don't anticipate those sorts of changes being reflected in the mod's official releases.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Schwartz on August 20, 2017, 06:55:15 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't expect the mod to change. People are stating preferences and feature requests and I'm just on the other side of the fence saying there's more than enough stuff in the mod already. I can't find anything I'd want the mod to do that it can't already do.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 09:32:22 PM
OK, I've been busier with other stuff today than I anticipated this morning, but I finally took a look at the "Tiberium Rim" mod... and I think I would be doing a great disservice to that mod if I added a generic "turn any unrecognized terrain into dirt" option to FF.

I can see adding "decrystallized" sand and soil to the list of terrains FF can recognize, or even adding a generic "turn any unrecognized terrain that has a fertility above 0 into dirt" option. But adding an option to just convert any of the "corrupted" terrains back to normal terrains would undermine what seems to be one of the major challenges that that mod is designed to provide the player.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 21, 2017, 01:33:19 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 20, 2017, 09:32:22 PM
and I think I would be doing a great disservice to that mod if I added a generic "turn any unrecognized terrain into dirt" option to FF.

Tiberium from that mod (green variety) is capable of corrupting insane amounts of land very quickly if you can't deal with it fast. And usually you don't nearly have the means to do that until very late game, not to mention offered land reclaim option turns it to decrystallyzed version very slowly, needs electricity (like a moisture pump) and doesn't even bring back its fertility to 100%. That very quickly leads to having a poisonous desert for a map on your hands. Considering that you can just up and leave to a new more hospitable place, adding the ability to cleanse the land using some resources you have in my opinion doesn't do any disservice. Tiberium is still pretty damn challenging, as its capable of destroying any items and buildings it can reach and poison any pawn to death in  seconds.

I guess I can see why you wouldn't want to add a tool to convert any tiberium infested land into normal soil, as it makes TirberiumRim's own tools obsolete, but in my opinion there should be at least an option to convert decrystallized soil into a normal one or rocky soil. And maybe even get some crystalls in the process as you dig them up.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 21, 2017, 03:13:09 AM
Yep, without the ability from VG to get the corrupted land back, i would lost my base for use even at the old A16 version. At A17 when tiberium is even more aggresiv it must be much worser.

But i think to it is a problem from the tiberium mod team. If he wanted that you could purify the land, he maybe gave you that tools in the mod.
Or at last he looked for a way to work together with other mods that solve the problem.
Maybe you should mention that problem at the tiberium mod thread too.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on August 21, 2017, 04:27:24 AM
When I convert soil to rich soil it appears as though wild plants will no longer grow on the Rich soil. I don't have a grow zone over the soil or roof or anything I could think of that would stop the growth. Is this the case?

The reason is I was wanting to set up a grazing area with natural plant growth so I didn't have to rely so heavily on growing hay grass but it seams I have burnt many many dead people and bugs for naught.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 21, 2017, 06:35:07 AM
Since  Rich soil is a vanilia terrain type i don't think this is based on this mod. Does even grass don't grow there anymore ?

Another issue i notice. I use hand me the brick and minions, both offer that other deliver resources to blueprints.
Tilled/plowed soil don't require any resources but i notice pawns and minions deliver "nothing" to that because it is a blueprint.


Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on August 21, 2017, 08:07:43 AM
Quote from: Canute on August 21, 2017, 06:35:07 AM
Since  Rich soil is a vanilia terrain type i don't think this is based on this mod. Does even grass don't grow there anymore ?

Another issue i notice. I use hand me the brick and minions, both offer that other deliver resources to blueprints.
Tilled/plowed soil don't require any resources but i notice pawns and minions deliver "nothing" to that because it is a blueprint.

Yeah nothing will naturally grow there. I was thinking it might be treated as a floor tile but I am no modder.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 21, 2017, 09:58:29 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on August 21, 2017, 01:33:19 AMTiberium from that mod (green variety) is capable of corrupting insane amounts of land very quickly if you can't deal with it fast....

That would be a balance issue within that mod, which should be taken up with the developers of that mod.

As I said, I will update FF so that it recognizes "decrystallized soil" and "decrystallized sand" and allows you to convert them back to vanilla terrain types. But I will *not* be adding any options that would allow conversion of tiberium into regular terrain types, as that would undo what appears to quite intentionally be a primary challenge of the Tiberium Rim mod. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't want to deal with tiberium, I'd suggest you just not use the mod that adds it to the game. :)

Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on August 21, 2017, 04:27:24 AMWhen I convert soil to rich soil it appears as though wild plants will no longer grow on the Rich soil.

The rich soil you place when you convert regular soil is no different from the rich soil that appears on the map by default. It is, quite literally, exactly the same terrain. So either you're just having bad luck, or you've got something else in your mod list which is interfering with plant growth, though what that might be, I've no idea.

Quote from: Canute on August 21, 2017, 06:35:07 AMAnother issue i notice.... Tilled/plowed soil don't require any resources but i notice pawns and minions deliver "nothing" to that because it is a blueprint.

That's related to another issue that others have pointed out, where pawns get XP if they work on a terrain conversion that requires resources, but don't get XP if they work on a terrain conversion that doesn't require them. Both problems have to do with the fact that the game is coded to assume that blueprints always require resources unless they're "instabuild" items like crafting spots. I haven't yet had the time or inclination to dig deep enough to see if there's any "easy" way to work around that coding.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 21, 2017, 12:35:46 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 21, 2017, 09:58:29 AM
As I said, I will update FF so that it recognizes "decrystallized soil" and "decrystallized sand" and allows you to convert them back to vanilla terrain types. But I will *not* be adding any options that would allow conversion of tiberium into regular terrain types, as that would undo what appears to quite intentionally be a primary challenge of the Tiberium Rim mod. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't want to deal with tiberium, I'd suggest you just not use the mod that adds it to the game. :)

Thats quite okay, I don't need to be able to replace tiberium itself with normal soil, I just need the tools to reclaim some land to actually grow stuff, not wait forever letting my colonists snack on each other. And you are right, If I didn't want to have tiberium in my run, I wouldn't install that mod in the first place. I quite like the concept of tiberium, but I sure as hell don't like, that you can't eventually restore the land occupied by tiberium to normal, no matter how much time and resources you use. So replacing decrystallized soil works fine for me. Thanks.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on August 22, 2017, 09:35:20 PM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated:

- Added the ability to terraform custom terrains from the "Crashlanding," "Quarry" and "Tiberium Rim" mods.

Wasteland from the "Crashlanding" mod can be terraformed as sand. Reclaimed soil from CuproPanda's "Quarry" mod can be terraformed as if it was gravel. And decrystallized sand and soil from "Tiberium Rim" can be terraformed as vanilla sand and gravel, respectively. (Note, though, that the various tiberium terrains introduced by that mod cannot be altered by anything in "Fertile Fields." To get rid of tiberium, you'll still need to utilize the mechanisms actually provided by "Tiberium Rim.")

- It is now possible to make crushed rocks from stone chunks, and sand from crushed rocks, at a stonecutting table, though doing so is of course much slower than at a rock mill.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on August 23, 2017, 01:36:46 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on August 22, 2017, 09:35:20 PM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated:

- Added the ability to terraform custom terrains from the "Crashlanding," "Quarry" and "Tiberium Rim" mods.

Wasteland from the "Crashlanding" mod can be terraformed as sand. Reclaimed soil from CuproPanda's "Quarry" mod can be terraformed as if it was gravel. And decrystallized sand and soil from "Tiberium Rim" can be terraformed as vanilla sand and gravel, respectively. (Note, though, that the various tiberium terrains introduced by that mod cannot be altered by anything in "Fertile Fields." To get rid of tiberium, you'll still need to utilize the mechanisms actually provided by "Tiberium Rim.")

- It is now possible to make crushed rocks from stone chunks, and sand from crushed rocks, at a stonecutting table, though doing so is of course much slower than at a rock mill.

Aaawesome. Quarry mod's terrains as well? I was just about to mention it. Thanks!

Oh, one more thing) I noticed that in RFF basic soil texture is changed to appear a lot darker than in vanilla RW. I am kinda interested why did you decide to change it))
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Aysling on August 31, 2017, 01:59:04 AM
Is there a way to remove rich soil?  I'm trying to build a moat, but there's some rich soil in the way, and I can't find an option to remove it.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on August 31, 2017, 02:29:49 AM
I can terraform richsoil into Sand or gravel without problems.
Plowed/topsoil you need to remove with remove floor first.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Aysling on September 01, 2017, 05:18:31 PM
Thanks!  I checked a few of the ones I normally use, didn't think to check sand or gravel!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on September 02, 2017, 06:23:00 AM
Would it be possible to have an option with the brick floors where when placed next to dirt it has the hard edge that comes with placing it next to a wall or smoothed stone floors?

The reason I am asking is my rose gardens have the sloppy brick edging and I would like it to be nice and neat like you would if you were putting in a garden bed.

Or have a garden bed soil type in terraforming that allows the edging to be nice and neat.

(I sorry if this is me being pedantic but I just want my garden beds to look like how my grandfather used to have his with nice neat brick edging)

Please and thankyou as well  :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Smellfungus on September 03, 2017, 06:38:53 PM
Late game I decided to add this but it's conflicting with vegetable garden. :\ I'm getting a whole load of broken VG_defs in the error log. I've also ensured the load order is correct. What could be going on? New games are fine, no issues.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on September 03, 2017, 06:50:59 PM
Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on September 02, 2017, 06:23:00 AM

(I sorry if this is me being pedantic but I just want my garden beds to look like how my grandfather used to have his with nice neat brick edging)


I think cuproPanda's "ZenGarden" (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32190#msg329352) is the mod you are looking for.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on September 03, 2017, 07:59:50 PM
Quote from: Smellfungus on September 03, 2017, 06:38:53 PMLate game I decided to add this but it's conflicting with vegetable garden. :\ I'm getting a whole load of broken VG_defs in the error log. I've also ensured the load order is correct. What could be going on? New games are fine, no issues.

The problem is that in order to avoid overlap and ensure that the mods work well together, "Fertile Fields" removes some of the things added by "Vegetable Garden" that duplicate items or functionality added by FF itself. In a new game, this presents no problem. But if you're trying to add FF to a saved game that already has some of the removed items from VG on the map -- the "fertilizer machine" (I have no idea why Dismar never gave that thing a proper name), or digging spots, or VG's version of dirt piles or compost or fertilizer, or whatever -- then you'll get errors, as the game won't know any more what those things are.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on September 04, 2017, 05:14:30 AM
By the way, since RFF actually adds sand piles, could you maybe patch sandbags recipe to actually require sand and cloth, not steel? I am reminded of this logical abomination each time I see sand piles...
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on September 04, 2017, 05:43:13 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on September 04, 2017, 05:14:30 AM
By the way, since RFF actually adds sand piles, could you maybe patch sandbags recipe to actually require sand and cloth, not steel? I am reminded of this logical abomination each time I see sand piles...
That is allready included.
My sandbag/improved sandbags need 1 pile of sand + cloth/leather.

Maybe you got another mod that add/change sandbags ?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on September 04, 2017, 06:24:03 AM
Well, thats quite odd... Thanks for your reply, I'll have to dig around my mod collection to see whats messing with my sandbags. By the way whats with the improved sandbags? Did you mean "heavy sandbags"?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on September 04, 2017, 06:24:53 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 09:53:29 PM
Fertile Fields (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.0) has been updated yet again:

- There are now two types of sandbags. Standard sandbags are made with cloth and sand, while heavy sandbags are more durable, and are made with leather instead of cloth.

- Corrected a stupid mistake that was causing all rock chunks created by stone to rocky dirt terraform actions to be granite.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on September 04, 2017, 06:32:26 AM
Ah, thanks for the information) Finally sandbags are actually sandbags, not lumps of steel in shape of sandbags. Veery nice.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on September 06, 2017, 04:13:03 AM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on September 03, 2017, 06:50:59 PM
Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on September 02, 2017, 06:23:00 AM

(I sorry if this is me being pedantic but I just want my garden beds to look like how my grandfather used to have his with nice neat brick edging)


I think cuproPanda's "ZenGarden" (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32190#msg329352) is the mod you are looking for.

Sexy, thanks.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: jpnm92 on September 13, 2017, 06:08:15 AM
Hey i just wanted to say that this mod must be loaded after combat extended otherwise it gives you an error:

[Combat Extended] Patch operation Verse.PatchOperationReplace(*/ThingDef[defName="Sandbags"]/costList/Steel) failed
Verse.Log:Error(String)
Verse.PatchOperation:Complete(String)
Verse.LoadedModManager:LoadAllActiveMods()
Verse.PlayDataLoader:DoPlayLoad()
Verse.PlayDataLoader:LoadAllPlayData(Boolean)
Verse.Root:<Start>m__84E()
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__84C()

I just thought this might be worth adding to the description or something idk.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on September 13, 2017, 09:44:56 AM
Quote from: jpnm92 on September 13, 2017, 06:08:15 AMHey i just wanted to say that this mod must be loaded after combat extended otherwise it gives you an error....

I don't actually use CE, but I can take a look and see what's happening. It looks like CE is simply trying to change the amount of steel used to create sandbags, an operation which fails if it's loaded after FF because, obviously, FF has already changed sandbags to not cost steel at all. If that is in fact all that's happening, then the error can safely be ignored, and it actually doesn't matter in which order you load the mods, as the end result either way will be that sandbags cost cloth and sand instead of steel. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Smellfungus on September 13, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
Ahhh, so that's what was happening! :D Delete the resources and buildings, right. Well, I was getting bored with that colony anyway, so I just made a new one. :p Thanks Dorf!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on September 24, 2017, 03:19:38 PM
Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) has been updated:

- Reinforced concrete has been renamed "steel-reinforced concrete," and plasticrete is now "plasteel-reinforced concrete."

- Steel-reinforced walls now require "Machining" to have been researched. (I realize there's no direct correlation between machining and bunker wall construction, but I didn't want to add a brand-new tech just for this, and machining seems to represent about the right technological competence and conceptual research focus, and it's something that nobody starts the game with.) Plasteel-reinforced walls additionally require "Microelectronics Basics" research.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Flimflamshabam on September 24, 2017, 05:27:42 PM
I don't suppose a Fertile Fields Lite is likely? One with just the fertilizer, and not all the dirt and sand and crushed rocks etc. I've been playing with it but the grind of getting all the soils and fertilizer is just very annoying.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on September 25, 2017, 09:50:24 AM
Quote from: Flimflamshabam on September 24, 2017, 05:27:42 PMI don't suppose a Fertile Fields Lite is likely? One with just the fertilizer, and not all the dirt and sand and crushed rocks etc. I've been playing with it but the grind of getting all the soils and fertilizer is just very annoying.

If all you want to do is make fertilizer and turn regular soil into rich soil, but leave anything else on the map alone, you're welcome to do so. The more advanced terraforming options aren't mandatory; in fact, if you don't bother to research the mod's techs, most of them won't even be available to you.

I'm afraid I don't see what the point of a "Lite" version of FF would be.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Sylph on September 25, 2017, 11:39:22 AM
Quote from: Flimflamshabam on September 24, 2017, 05:27:42 PM
I don't suppose a Fertile Fields Lite is likely? One with just the fertilizer, and not all the dirt and sand and crushed rocks etc. I've been playing with it but the grind of getting all the soils and fertilizer is just very annoying.

Annoying? I think it's perfectly executed, and incredibly useful. Also considering it might sound overpowered (fertile mountain farms, for instance), it actually in practice ends up feeling very well balanced (though I stay away from deep water creation). Terraforming under a mountain is a very long term goal.

Also... if something is annoying you (getting soils), which is unnecessary to achieving your end goals (something to do with fertiliser?), then just... don't do it. No-one is forcing you to even research terraforming.

Quote from: dburgdorf on September 24, 2017, 03:19:38 PM
Concrete (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33063.msg342327#msg342327) has been updated:

- Reinforced concrete has been renamed "steel-reinforced concrete," and plasticrete is now "plasteel-reinforced concrete."

- Steel-reinforced walls now require "Machining" to have been researched. (I realize there's no direct correlation between machining and bunker wall construction, but I didn't want to add a brand-new tech just for this, and machining seems to represent about the right technological competence and conceptual research focus, and it's something that nobody starts the game with.) Plasteel-reinforced walls additionally require "Microelectronics Basics" research.

My, what perfectly named building materials! ;) Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Flimflamshabam on September 25, 2017, 02:16:35 PM
I just don't like having to wait for like 3 years or pay ~1000 silver for another caravan to roll around only for them to not have any dirt, or only have like 200 when I need 2000. The cost per tile is small sure but when you're aiming for even minor scale operations in otherwise impossible environments it's a bit too much to deal with, I also dislike the rotted foods stuff I would prefer just to make compost without needing part meat and part vegetable, takes alot of effort to keep meat in stock in rimworld if you aren't cannibaling it up and Hunting always comes with the risk of pissing off an entire herd and without a kill box that's the end of the colony.

I'm not interested in under mountain farming, and if I do I can settle for hydroponics or simple layered soil, but I still want the option to turn at least marsh, sand, and gravel into soil, and vice versa without it being a year long process to just get the materials.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on September 25, 2017, 02:30:40 PM
How is it you don't have 2000 dirt lying around ?

just reduce every ground you are building on to rocky dirt.

and you can burn corpses to get compost. the one bit where I cheat a little is using Kaptain_Kaverns Campfire can burn Corpses mod which gives me instant access to tons of fertilizer which is always my bottleneck.

Hunt small stuff .. burn it to fertilizer.

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on September 25, 2017, 02:59:22 PM
I do agree with @Flimflamshabam on one point though - why does compost need meat? As far as I know it can be made without any meat just as successfully... Early game, when meat is plenty, you usually don't really do much terraforming and late game when its time to change some land - meat is damn scarse, not even enough to have sufficiently provide fine meals for 20 guy colony.

Only bright spot is those nice raider guys, willingly jumping in heaps into crematorium just to give me some rich soil later...
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on September 25, 2017, 03:01:18 PM
Quote from: Flimflamshabam on September 25, 2017, 02:16:35 PMI also dislike the rotted foods stuff I would prefer just to make compost without needing part meat and part vegetable....

This, I'm already planning to change. I'm getting really tired of one user after another on the mod's Steam thread posting "the compost recipe doesn't work!" when the problem is nothing more than that they have a stockpile of veggies but no meat. :P

As to the rest of your post, all I can say is, there are other mods available that allow "magical" transformation of one terrain into another. ("Tilled Soil" and "Buildable Terrain" both come immediately to mind, and of course, dev mode is always an option.) The genesis of "Fertile Fields" was in response to those mods. It is my attempt, however imperfect, to introduce terraforming to RimWorld in a "realistic" (using the term, admittedly, a bit loosely) and balanced manner. I really can't see myself creating an "easy mode" version of FF, when such a thing would likely end up being nothing more than a copy of the mods I didn't like, that led me to create FF in the first place. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on September 25, 2017, 03:20:02 PM
So will you be getting rid of rotten meat then? I really hope so. I mean I do like it very much that even rotting meat can actually be used for something, not just dissapears magically. But on the other hand my hauler-dog squad seem to prefer eating it over everything else, as result they part haul, part barf everywhere, turning whole place into one big stinky compost bin... If not get rid of it, at least modify it, so no animal is stupid enough to give itself food posioning over and over again on it :))
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Flimflamshabam on September 25, 2017, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on September 25, 2017, 02:30:40 PM
How is it you don't have 2000 dirt lying around ?
well I was doing a sheet ice run. But even on a normal map there's always mud, or marsh, or sand that I need turned to usable soil and it's somewhat and without trashing terrain elsewhere which still doesn't give me all the soil I need it takes forever to get done, inbetween the already micromanagy regular gameplay. Its amazing how even with like 10 pawns with no disabled work shit still manages to not get done.

It would be nice to at least be able to revert fertile soil to regular soil for I guess a chance for some fertilizer, also maybe remove deteriorating without a roof for, well everything, aside from soil blowing away in the wind it just doesn't make much sense and makes me force my pawns to haul dirt over cooking or building to keep the dirt from being lost.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: sirgzu on September 25, 2017, 06:33:19 PM
is it safe to add this mod half way through a game?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on September 26, 2017, 03:47:13 AM
Quote from: sirgzu on September 25, 2017, 06:33:19 PM
is it safe to add this mod half way through a game?

Absolutely.
But like all mods that add stuff, removal might be impossible.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Sylph on September 26, 2017, 08:01:25 AM
Quote from: Flimflamshabam on September 25, 2017, 02:16:35 PM
I just don't like having to wait for like 3 years or pay ~1000 silver for another caravan to roll around only for them to not have any dirt, or only have like 200 when I need 2000. The cost per tile is small sure but when you're aiming for even minor scale operations in otherwise impossible environments it's a bit too much to deal with, I also dislike the rotted foods stuff I would prefer just to make compost without needing part meat and part vegetable, takes alot of effort to keep meat in stock in rimworld if you aren't cannibaling it up and Hunting always comes with the risk of pissing off an entire herd and without a kill box that's the end of the colony.

I'm not interested in under mountain farming, and if I do I can settle for hydroponics or simple layered soil, but I still want the option to turn at least marsh, sand, and gravel into soil, and vice versa without it being a year long process to just get the materials.

I play exclusively on ice sheets (the coldest mountainous tile on any world, thank you to Prepare Carefully's search function!) so I appreciate where you are coming from, but I enjoy the extra difficulty in finding resources (be it those as simple as dirt) there... it's why I play there. I take for granted the fact I'll need to research cremation and turn dead raiders into compost to get a supply of fertiliser, just as I take for granted there will be no trees, etc. You can also make your own dirt, after researching terraforming and building a rock mill to make it practicable. Also you can travel off the ice sheet and dig up dirt elsewhere (A17 is awesome!), and send it back. Same way I get limestone for concrete if I'm unlucky enough that the coldest mountain tile on a map doesn't have native limestone. (My current colony has slate and marble... yay...)

Quote from: dburgdorf on September 25, 2017, 03:01:18 PM
Quote from: Flimflamshabam on September 25, 2017, 02:16:35 PMI also dislike the rotted foods stuff I would prefer just to make compost without needing part meat and part vegetable....

This, I'm already planning to change. I'm getting really tired of one user after another on the mod's Steam thread posting "the compost recipe doesn't work!" when the problem is nothing more than that they have a stockpile of veggies but no meat. :P

Might I suggest that you retain rotten meat/meat as an ingredient in compost, in a recipe that combines plant and animal matter, and offers a higher yield of compost per unit of nutrients and work than the purely-plant matter compost you'll add? This would be in keeping with the vanilla gameplay rewarding players who can source both plant and animal matter (fine, lavish meals requiring both, offering bigger mood bonuses).

Also I don't anyone should feel obligated to design anything for the few dimwits who cannot read instructions (or in this case, the required resources for a recipe in Rimworld, given quite plainly on the interface for selecting products).
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on September 28, 2017, 04:19:19 PM
Rainbeau,

I just have to say Fertile Fields is one awesome tool to God-Mode terraform testing grounds for Mods

greetings,
SpaceDorf.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: sirgzu on September 29, 2017, 04:52:23 AM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on September 28, 2017, 04:19:19 PMI just have to say Fertile Fields is one awesome tool to God-Mode terraform testing grounds for Mods
Lol I agree, that's why I started using this mod in the first place.. then i realise there actually is a dev mode menu to edit terrain
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on September 29, 2017, 05:25:50 AM
Quote from: sirgzu on September 29, 2017, 04:52:23 AM
Lol I agree, that's why I started using this mod in the first place.. then i realise there actually is a dev mode menu to edit terrain

True, but FF is easier to use :)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: digdog303 on September 29, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
I tried to inject FF into a game and got this when trying to save:

Exception while saving game: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RimWorld.TaleData_Def.ExposeData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[TaleData_Def] (RimWorld.TaleData_Def& target, Boolean saveDestroyedThings, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[TaleData_Def] (RimWorld.TaleData_Def& target, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at RimWorld.Tale_SinglePawnAndDef.ExposeData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[Tale] (RimWorld.Tale& target, Boolean saveDestroyedThings, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Collections.Look[Tale] (System.Collections.Generic.List`1& list, Boolean saveDestroyedThings, System.String label, LookMode lookMode, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Collections.Look[Tale] (System.Collections.Generic.List`1& list, System.String label, LookMode lookMode, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at RimWorld.TaleManager.ExposeData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[TaleManager] (RimWorld.TaleManager& target, Boolean saveDestroyedThings, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[TaleManager] (RimWorld.TaleManager& target, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Game.ExposeSmallComponents () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Game.ExposeData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[Game] (Verse.Game& target, Boolean saveDestroyedThings, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Scribe_Deep.Look[Game] (Verse.Game& target, System.String label, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GameDataSaveLoader.<SaveGame>m__90E () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.SafeSaver.DoSave (System.String fullPath, System.String documentElementName, System.Action saveAction) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

I have a handful of other mods that have been working fine before the inject. VG then FF are the last two mods in the load order.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on September 29, 2017, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: digdog303 on September 29, 2017, 04:27:21 PMI tried to inject FF into a game and got this when trying to save.... I have a handful of other mods that have been working fine before the inject. VG then FF are the last two mods in the load order.

The reason you need to load FF after VG is that FF removes some of the things that VG adds, in order to make sure the mods "play nice" together and to eliminate overlap between the two. But if you're trying to add FF to a saved game that's already been in progress with VG, you'll likely encounter problems, as you probably already have on your map some of the things that FF removes.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: digdog303 on September 29, 2017, 04:53:08 PM
Yeah, I loaded them in the correct order. Do you know if there's a way I could go into the save file or delete things in dev mode to get them to work? FF looks cool but I don't want to abandon this colony.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: sirgzu on September 29, 2017, 06:23:26 PM
I was hauling some meat from an outpost to my colony and it spoiled on the way.
I was hoping I'd be getting the rotting meat on arrival but my pack animals were empty.
Is that normal?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on September 30, 2017, 03:10:48 AM
The script to convert it just work on maps, not caravans, and i think it don't work on backpacks either.
But ask yourself, when you wander around and you notice your lunchbox is rotting, do you keep it for your home-compost or do you put it in the next trashcan ? :-)
Ohh sirgzu, what do i smell from you ? Did you got me a nice cheese gift ? :-)

Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Sylph on October 01, 2017, 01:50:46 PM
I've found a bug (I think?) with Concrete: the smithy accepts non-limestone rock chunks. Though limestone is selected exclusively by default, there's nothing stopping you feeding in other rock types.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on October 01, 2017, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Sylph on October 01, 2017, 01:50:46 PMI've found a bug (I think?) with Concrete: the smithy accepts non-limestone rock chunks. Though limestone is selected exclusively by default, there's nothing stopping you feeding in other rock types.

That's not a bug. By default, limestone and only limestone can be used to make cement, because it's realistic. However, not everyone wants to be bothered with actually making sure they have limestone available, and so the recipe can be adjusted to allow other stone types to be used. (Hell, you could adjust it to allow every stone type *except* limestone, if you really wanted to.)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Ncates1234 on October 01, 2017, 08:05:47 PM
Anyways to get the ol' bag recipe? (sandbag)
Don't like it how mods that do stuff related to one thing change another one thats not needed.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on October 01, 2017, 08:43:02 PM
Maybe it because some Mods try to provide a flavour or setting for the game.

Why would you want the old sandbag recipe anyway? You want to waste steel on sand bags? Not use bags of sand to make bags of sand?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Ncates1234 on October 02, 2017, 01:13:47 AM
Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on October 01, 2017, 08:43:02 PM
Maybe it because some Mods try to provide a flavour or setting for the game.

Why would you want the old sandbag recipe anyway? You want to waste steel on sand bags? Not use bags of sand to make bags of sand?
I tend to use sandbags as early as possible and not live in deserts, gathering sand is hard. Steel is much better.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on October 02, 2017, 03:45:19 AM
Don't forget small/1x1 wall provide good cover too.
Stone wall segments should be your 1. choise until you want/can build sandbags. Special at extreme biomes when you don't got much animals for hides.


Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: digdog303 on October 02, 2017, 04:10:10 AM
yesssss I feel like a freakin genius right now

I was able to finally inject FF and save without errors by going into the save file and deleting the references to having researched soil reclamation from VG.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on October 02, 2017, 05:25:36 AM
Quote from: digdog303 on October 02, 2017, 04:10:10 AM
yesssss I feel like a freakin genius right now

I was able to finally inject FF and save without errors by going into the save file and deleting the references to having researched soil reclamation from VG.

Welcome to the true glory of Rimworld.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on October 03, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
One thing I've noticed playing with RFF - not all terraforming related jobs give construction experience to pawns. For example converting stone to rocky dirt gives same XP as building walls, but converting soil into rocky soil doesn't give anything. I am a bit interested if this is intended to work this way)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on October 03, 2017, 03:52:37 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on October 03, 2017, 03:15:00 PMOne thing I've noticed playing with RFF - not all terraforming related jobs give construction experience to pawns.

It's not intentional, but I haven't yet bothered to dig deep enough into the code to figure out a way around it. Basically, the game's code assumes that only "insta-build" items, like crafting spots, don't require materials, and so only awards experience to pawns when they're building something that has a material cost. It doesn't allow experience for items which are built with no requirement beyond work time. That's a perfectly reasonable assumption in the vanilla game, but unfortunately, isn't quite so reasonable where FF is concerned. And so terraforming jobs that require materials will reward pawns with XP, but those which don't require materials, won't.

Quote from: Ncates1234 on October 02, 2017, 01:13:47 AMI tend to use sandbags as early as possible and not live in deserts, gathering sand is hard. Steel is much better.

I'll admit I have trouble imagining any context in which requiring steel instead of sand for construction of sandbags is "better." It makes no more sense than the use of steel to create concrete floors. It just seems like Tynan throws steel in as an ingredient whenever he needs a "quick fix" until he can add proper materials to the game. ;)

And... "gathering sand is hard"? I take it you're overlooking the fact that all you need to do is dig up some dirt and separate it into clay and sand at a crafting spot....
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: wedekit on October 03, 2017, 04:12:41 PM
I've been a happy camper since I've installed this and upgraded my soil up to tilled. However, I'll say it feels a bit like cheating since I'm constantly harvesting now. Blight events are hardly something to be scared of anymore.

A feature I would enjoy is to have the tilled soil degrade back down to fertile after a certain amount of time or harvests, enforcing a necessary time sink if you want to keep 180% fertile soil.

Also, I think making the tilling part something that falls under sowing would be a bit more logical. Getting a hoe and tilling soil into rows isn't building, dismantling, repairing, or performing maintenance. Construction is already an overburdened job compared to many of the others. But I understand that this may not be feasible regarding the code.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Madman666 on October 03, 2017, 04:27:47 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on October 03, 2017, 03:52:37 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on October 03, 2017, 03:15:00 PMOne thing I've noticed playing with RFF - not all terraforming related jobs give construction experience to pawns.

It's not intentional, but I haven't yet bothered to dig deep enough into the code to figure out a way around it. Basically, the game's code assumes that only "insta-build" items, like crafting spots, don't require materials, and so only awards experience to pawns when they're building something that has a material cost. It doesn't allow experience for items which are built with no requirement beyond work time. That's a perfectly reasonable assumption in the vanilla game, but unfortunately, isn't quite so reasonable where FF is concerned. And so terraforming jobs that require materials will reward pawns with XP, but those which don't require materials, won't.

Very interesting, i wasn't aware of this side of job EXP gain mechanics. Thanks for the information!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Ncates1234 on October 07, 2017, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on October 03, 2017, 03:52:37 PM
And... "gathering sand is hard"? I take it you're overlooking the fact that all you need to do is dig up some dirt and separate it into clay and sand at a crafting spot....
Oh shoot. You can do that? I need to look at everything I can do...
Makes more sense too now.

Sorry for the late reply do. Rarely visit forums of any type :/
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: tertium on October 11, 2017, 06:47:14 PM
Is there a way to automatically forbid rotted mush when it forms? Or make them inherit the forbid status of the corpse that they came from? My pawns keep rushing off to the other end of the map to haul that stuff in.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Canute on October 12, 2017, 03:29:56 AM
hmm rotted mush from corpse ? I never encounter this.
I only geting rotted from meat/veggies/meals. My corpse dessicate over time.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on October 12, 2017, 03:40:30 AM
Quote from: Canute on October 12, 2017, 03:29:56 AM
hmm rotted mush from corpse ? I never encounter this.
I only geting rotted from meat/veggies/meals. My corpse dessicate over time.

Me neither, getting rotten mush from corpses requires butchering.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on October 12, 2017, 09:35:35 AM
Quote from: tertium on October 11, 2017, 06:47:14 PMIs there a way to automatically forbid rotted mush when it forms? Or make them inherit the forbid status of the corpse that they came from? My pawns keep rushing off to the other end of the map to haul that stuff in.

As noted by others, only meat, veggies and meals deteriorate into rotted mush or rotted meat.  Corpses do not.  So if you're seeing pawns run across the map to retrieve rotted mush or rotted meat, that suggests that you've been ignoring viable food that should have been hauled long before it had a chance to rot.  ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on October 12, 2017, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on October 12, 2017, 09:35:35 AM
Quote from: tertium on October 11, 2017, 06:47:14 PMIs there a way to automatically forbid rotted mush when it forms? Or make them inherit the forbid status of the corpse that they came from? My pawns keep rushing off to the other end of the map to haul that stuff in.

As noted by others, only meat, veggies and meals deteriorate into rotted mush or rotted meat.  Corpses do not.  So if you're seeing pawns run across the map to retrieve rotted mush or rotted meat, that suggests that you've been ignoring viable food that should have been hauled long before it had a chance to rot.  ;)

Yeah but who wants to divert energy into every drop pod that gets thrown your way. Yes I could divert a pawn to spend a whole day marching through the jungle past the panthers and cobras to pick up 62 rat meat. Why though?

Just make sure you uncheck the rotted mush box on your storage areas stockpiles.

Does anyone use rotted mush actively in their game? I have very large areas of ploughed rich soil and ignore all rotted. I get all my fertiliser from raiders or trade for it if I am being impatient.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: tertium on October 12, 2017, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on October 12, 2017, 09:35:35 AM
As noted by others, only meat, veggies and meals deteriorate into rotted mush or rotted meat.  Corpses do not.

Alright, thank you. I'll change the stockpile settings.

But in that case I have no idea where the rotted mush is coming from. Every five days or so there would be a single stack of 2-3 appearing somewhere on the map. I'm fairly sure it's not food dropped from a downed visitor/raider nor from cargo pods. Nor due to colonists dropping their meals they were eating when I interrupted them because the mush is often in really remote parts of the map. Berry bushes don't drop their berries when they die or get eaten by wildlife, do they? Are wild muffalos milking themselves...?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: dburgdorf on October 12, 2017, 11:23:08 PM
Quote from: Beathrus on October 12, 2017, 06:43:48 PMSo I sorta have a problem, I'm not sure if its your mod; not completely. But could you take a look at this, or can someone?

You posted a link to a 2,500 line log file (which doesn't, at first glance, appear to show any terminal errors), and asked for someone to look at it, without even providing a clue as to what we're supposed to be looking for.

So, um... no.

What's the error you're encountering, and what makes you think it's related to "Fertile Fields"?

Give me something to work with, here.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on October 13, 2017, 05:11:35 AM
Quote from: Beathrus on October 12, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
So I sorta have a problem, I'm not sure if its your mod; not completely. But could you take a look at this, or can someone?

https://gist.github.com/feaf79d103fd462802c236b0176c78fe

First of : Which Language are you playing in ?
The FF errors are mostly about translation files.

reading from Line 291 ..

There might be a slight misunderstanding between Medieval Times and Aparello, but I don't think thats a problem.

A real problem might be " VG - Cupro Drinks " since I did not see Vegetable Garden in your Loaded List at the beginning.
It introduces or expects VG definitions, which can't be met and also clash with Medival Times and Fertile Fields because of missing fueltypes and building defs ...



Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Beathrus on October 18, 2017, 10:47:52 PM
Quote from: dburgdorf on October 12, 2017, 11:23:08 PM
Quote from: Beathrus on October 12, 2017, 06:43:48 PMSo I sorta have a problem, I'm not sure if its your mod; not completely. But could you take a look at this, or can someone?

You posted a link to a 2,500 line log file (which doesn't, at first glance, appear to show any terminal errors), and asked for someone to look at it, without even providing a clue as to what we're supposed to be looking for.

So, um... no.

What's the error you're encountering, and what makes you think it's related to "Fertile Fields"?

Give me something to work with, here.

Sorry! I wasn't thinking, I fixed that a while ago. It was Small Worlds causing the error I had.

But I do have a question now, about the Compost Barrel. Does it get filled Automatically by growers or crafters? Or is it something that needs to be monitored and manually done?
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on October 19, 2017, 12:35:44 AM
Haulers fill the barrels I believe.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: SpaceDorf on October 19, 2017, 03:48:03 AM
Quote from: Beathrus on October 18, 2017, 10:47:52 PM

But I do have a question now, about the Compost Barrel. Does it get filled Automatically by growers or crafters? Or is it something that needs to be monitored and manually done?

Same as Brewing .. Compost Barrels get filled and cleared by haulers.
Hauling Animals are not able to do it ( Minions, Slaves .. included )
Misc. Robots on the other hand are able to fill the Barrels.
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: Beathrus on October 19, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 19, 2017, 03:48:03 AM
Quote from: Beathrus on October 18, 2017, 10:47:52 PM

But I do have a question now, about the Compost Barrel. Does it get filled Automatically by growers or crafters? Or is it something that needs to be monitored and manually done?

Same as Brewing .. Compost Barrels get filled and cleared by haulers.
Hauling Animals are not able to do it ( Minions, Slaves .. included )
Misc. Robots on the other hand are able to fill the Barrels.

Ah, Okay! Thank you for the info!
Title: Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
Post by: nmid on October 25, 2017, 03:23:47 AM


Nevermind, it was fine.