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========= edit: Mod released =========

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1169411104 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1169411104)
soon on forum
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=30708#msg313430 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=30708#msg313430)

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I am working on a new mod that adds a new pod.
The MK1 Transport Pod.

The main point of this topic is to discuss the balance of this.

MK1 Poddoes not need a pod launcher and will not vanish when landing.

It can land anywhere on the world, and be used from the world map (no local map generated unless you land to one).
It has its own fuel tank and cargo.

You can land to a friendly outpost and trade with them. (this feature could be very OP...)

You can send the pods without anyone on board, but you will need to use your comm console to trade. Only possible with factions of tech level >= industrial .

Has enough fuel to go as far as a vanilla pod one way. (tbd).
It should use a little bit more fuel (3 per tile instead of 2.25) and perhaps an extra 10 for every trip (tbd).
The cargo size should be a little higher than the vanilla pod (180 instead of 150).
Building the pod costs 50 steel, 30 plasteel and 2 components (tbd).

The research required is the same as the vanilla pod.

Let me know what you think of this balance.
suggestions welcome !

https://github.com/Wishmaster01/Self.Launching.Pods (https://github.com/Wishmaster01/Self.Launching.Pods)

Back and forth to anywhere I hate starting a new game of Rimworld; wanna know why? Because I have to re-roll the planet over and over, spending a gaming session just looking for a place to land. Transportation across the planet could remove caravan range issues from consideration when selecting a landing spot, thus making more of the planet colonizable and reducing time spent in the pre-game menu system.

OP Maybe a bit ..
but at least more realistic ..
It always hurts my suspense of disbelief if something expensive like drop pods is a single use item.
I always thought that was the one thing space travel ( or good engineering in generall ) seeks to avoid.

In my head I always plan a small Airport next to trade partners, which I could supply from my main base, just to send Traders Back and forth. But I have not built one so far .. maybe this time.

This System would be more useful and not as OP as Cpt. OhU's Freight Ship.

I never play with Orbital Hugs United. I have no idea how OP is this.

Also if only I knew about this earlier. I am totally looking at it now... It could at least make my job easier in creating this mod.

Quote from: SpaceDorf on June 12, 2017, 05:41:04 AM
This System would be more useful and not as OP as Cpt. OhU's Freight Ship.

I can still nerf the sh** out my ships if it helps balance. Though what aspects are that OP if you take into account high build costs and fuel consumption ?

@Wishmaster: Feel free to rummage around and ask if questions arise.

Quote from: Cpt.Ohu on June 12, 2017, 11:29:45 AM

Quote from: SpaceDorf on June 12, 2017, 05:41:04 AM
This System would be more useful and not as OP as Cpt. OhU's Freight Ship.

I can still nerf the sh** out my ships if it helps balance. Though what aspects are that OP if you take into account high build costs and fuel consumption ?

Please don't Nerf them :)
I have not tested the long time use and fuel price cost, but considering that logs are more or less free,
I can't imagine that it is too high for a late-mid to endgame colony, which can afford multiple Freight Ships.

The OP Part is the total freedom of movement around the planet you gain with this ship, and the amount of Freight a single Pawn can move, without being in actual danger.

Which is totally awesome, especially in the Warhammer 40k Setting, but it loses the vanilla feel somewhere ..
the Pods feel more like Rimworld Lore.

On the other Hand .. Glitter- and Midworlds should have a similier Techlevel to at least reach todays Airtravel.
Which brings us back to the freighter :)

Quote from: Cpt.Ohu on June 12, 2017, 11:29:45 AM

Quote from: SpaceDorf on June 12, 2017, 05:41:04 AM
This System would be more useful and not as OP as Cpt. OhU's Freight Ship.

I can still nerf the sh** out my ships if it helps balance. Though what aspects are that OP if you take into account high build costs and fuel consumption ?

@Wishmaster: Feel free to rummage around and ask if questions arise.

oh glad to see the mod author here :p...

So I've tried hard to make this mod and tbh it was not easy and now while a lot of things work fine, the code is a real mess. To works half on detours and half on clean new defs and classes. There are even some almost copied/paste code with few changes...

For now only traveling from map to map seems to work fine.
Traveling to new maps (encounter) or from a tile does not work for now.

I really wanted to keep as much as vanilla code as possible. No new gathering supplies job giver and drivers.
Not rewriting that pods chain from scratch (Building pod, leaving pod, traveling pods, incoming pod, active pod, building pod again).

I kept the vanilla CompTransporter, CompLaunchable and CompRefualable and assemble them all to one building (the new pod).

CompLaunchable has been swapped by my own CompSelfLaunchable.

Also I need for the world object "Landed Pods" to be like a caravan but should be able not move. I created a class from Caravan just like you.
Btw yours can walk to right ?
LandedShip : Caravan


However I had a look at your mod and it seem you had a different approach for quite everything
You have created your job drivers and givers, your ShipComp and ShipBase.

Now I'm thinking about reworking a lot of my code. Perhaps use some of your code (with your permission) ?

Mod teaser btw

Space Freight Trains
Cargo container modules to add to the basic ship.
And maybe mother-ships that can be placed into orbit as an in-betweeny base, with cargo container storage and shuttles.

Quote from: Wishmaster on June 12, 2017, 12:13:34 PM
Btw yours can walk to right ?

Code Select Expand

LandedShip : Caravan

Now I'm thinking about reworking a lot of my code. Perhaps use some of your code (with your permission) ?

Nope, my ships won't move. You can click all you want. Take a look at the Harmony patches to see how to do it.

I assembled so many new classes because the droppod-system was too limited in my opinion for what I wanted to do. It you really want to you can take a look at it and adjust it to your needs though.

Are you planning to launch a demo version of the mod for trialling at all? It sounds like a good way to increase transport flexibility without going all the way with the Ohu Dropship and I would like to give it a try.

Quote from: Slimy_Slider on June 13, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Are you planning to launch a demo version of the mod for trialling at all? It sounds like a good way to increase transport flexibility without going all the way with the Ohu Dropship and I would like to give it a try.

I would totally post a pre release unstable version here for the most aware users.

A neat feature of github:
"there have been 4 commits since this release" is pre-release.

So pre-release is everything between release tags, no extra effort required.

Good news. I made major advancements and the mod is decent for use now.

But is still experimental... If you really want to try it now, you can.
https://github.com/Wishmaster01/Self.Launching.Pods (https://github.com/Wishmaster01/Self.Launching.Pods)

Limitation remains.

   
• Map generation not supported. You can land on a site or an enemy village but nothing will happen until you unload your caravan.
• Pawns inside a pods fleet in world are not ticked.
• Prisoners will flee after landing.
• You have to unload your caravan from your pods fleet to do anything such as trading.

Discussing balance:

   
• Launching a pod costs 10 fuel + 3 for every tile.
• It can store up to 200 fuel units (instead of 150).
• It costs 60 steel, 30 plasteel and 2 components to make.
• It requires the same research as the vanilla pod.

Feedback is more than welcome.

Discussing balance:

Range and Cost is balanced, but I think you should include an additional Research Requirement for the Advanced Pods.

The reasons being :
a.) ADVANCED PODS - not same Pods
b.) unlocking them both at the same time practically removes all value of the base pods from the game.
c.) Advanced Research should lower the fuel costs of the base pods to keep them relevant as a player choice.

You get a point. But personally I think I won't use the vanilla pods anymore.
Also I almost never had to use them for a one way trip.

Another way to balance maybe to require pod launcher to refuel.

That way it would be easier just to use your re-use mod ..
which, by the way was the first time I actually used the droppods after building.

Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 06, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
That way it would be easier just to use your re-use mod ..
which, by the way was the first time I actually used the droppods after building.

Why ? Reuse Pods requires you to build an outpost next to village if you want to trade... Involving soo much complications.

I will consider an extra research anyway. Maybe 2500 - 3000 points.

Quote from: Wishmaster on October 06, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Why ? Reuse Pods requires you to build an outpost next to village if you want to trade... Involving soo much complications.

For Trading, I did not consider that .. I never trade much with other Villages except using my dropships.

I remember I had a look at this mod when I began making self launching pods. But I wanted something more vanilla.

Regarding balance. Perhaps I should consider another intermediate 2 uses pod only ?

Could you force them to return to launch stations ?

You require a launch station to send them somewhere, but the have to return there to get refueled ( like you allready suggested ) and recieve new target coordinates.

Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 07, 2017, 11:53:08 AM
Could you force them to return to launch stations ?

You require a launch station to send them somewhere, but the have to return there to get refueled ( like you allready suggested ) and recieve new target coordinates.

Yes I can. Just have to decide...
But those stations would likely be pod launchers from where you reload them.

Currently reaching the end game ship may be too easy: just send pods a fleet with plenty of fuel and silver (for buying fuel). Land, refuel. Abandon empty pods.
Just like a multi stage rocket.

I will start a pool to decide about balance... hopefully you are not the only one interested.

So far it should contain:

Increase pods costs.
Add research requirement.
Refueling requires building.
Prevent using pods to leave an encounter.
Increase tank capacity.
Decrease tank capacity.
Increase storage capacity.
Decrease storage capacity.

Fuel Usage is another Variable for balancing. Combined with fuel capacity it is used to finetune range.

HP matters, because reusable Pods can still be destroyed.
Construction time, how complicated are they to build in comparison to normal pods.

and what happens when a pod gets destroyed ?  Turret Syndrome or rather no possible use as ICBM

I ve now been playing for few days with a functional (but buggy) mod.
Few things feel really OP.
On another hand, round-way range feels quite limited.

Balance issue:
It feels kind of OP to trade almost as a wish. Don t call for a caravan, don t walk to a friendly base, just send some a pods and trade almost instantly at any time as long you have the pods and fuel.

Workaround:
Every 2-4 launches (or more?), a pod has a breakdown and requires repair with a component. Could also have some randomness.


Balance issue:
It is possible to land at a friendly faction base, purchase fuel and go travel further... let s go to the AI ship that ends the game.

Workaround:
Make purchasing fuel at faction bases a lot higher.


Balance issue:
You can land  to an encounter (attacking a base, outpost...) and get back into your pods and leaving really easily if things go bad.

Workaround:
Damaged pods have chances to make accident occur or use more fuel. Pods get easily damaged when you are bombed by mortars.
However landing to an adjacent tile and walk to the encounter is an easy way to get around this.


On another hand, the roundway trip range seem very limited. There are few bases I can trade with.
So I will likely increase the maximum range of advanced pods and reduce fuel usage.
The new research however will remain.

Either I am Blind Stupid or Both .. but I don't see a Download Link ?

==== EDIT ====

I found it on your Git .. but I still think there is an official missing link  ::)

Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 11, 2017, 03:00:36 PM
Either I am Blind Stupid or Both .. but I don't see a Download Link ?

==== EDIT ====

I found it on your Git .. but I still think there is an official missing link  ::)

I just added the link to git in the topic.
I want the most aware users only to try it... There is no official archive  indeed but you can download the whole project from github. (compiled, ready to use).

QuoteBalance issue:
It feels kind of OP to trade almost as a wish. Don t call for a caravan, don t walk to a friendly base, just send some a pods and trade almost instantly at any time as long you have the pods and fuel.

Workaround:
Every 2-4 launches (or more?), a pod has a breakdown and requires repair with a component. Could also have some randomness.

Can you damage a returning pod by 90%, so it need to be repaired.

And since you allready increased the fuel cost, and you need to produce the fuel first and grow/harvest organics/wood for that first. It is balanced at this way.

Even when you could buy fuel at a friendly outpost, i don't think you should be able to fly from outpost to outpost with this droppod. Don't forget droppods was primary single use objects, every start/landing should is enough stress for, then it need a maintance after it returns.
A roundtrip would be the job for the Dropship.

Quote from: Wishmaster on October 11, 2017, 03:22:19 PM
I just added the link to git in the topic.
I want the most aware users only to try it... There is no official archive  indeed but you can download the whole project from github. (compiled, ready to use).

Sorry if I sabotaged your test with this ...

Quote from: Canute on October 12, 2017, 01:09:01 PM

QuoteBalance issue:
It feels kind of OP to trade almost as a wish. Don t call for a caravan, don t walk to a friendly base, just send some a pods and trade almost instantly at any time as long you have the pods and fuel.

Workaround:
Every 2-4 launches (or more?), a pod has a breakdown and requires repair with a component. Could also have some randomness.

Can you damage a returning pod by 90%, so it need to be repaired.

And since you allready increased the fuel cost, and you need to produce the fuel first and grow/harvest organics/wood for that first. It is balanced at this way.

Even when you could buy fuel at a friendly outpost, i don't think you should be able to fly from outpost to outpost with this droppod. Don't forget droppods was primary single use objects, every start/landing should is enough stress for, then it need a maintance after it returns.
A roundtrip would be the job for the Dropship.

It could be simple damages every 2 uses instead... that would however be cheaper than components requirements..
Also requiring components is like the fact that you have to rebuild something for every trip...

Also I feel like the vanilla game needs a late game way to roundtrip. Dropships mod is good but I like when things are more looking like vanilla.

Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 12, 2017, 02:22:28 PM

Quote from: Wishmaster on October 11, 2017, 03:22:19 PM
I just added the link to git in the topic.
I want the most aware users only to try it... There is no official archive  indeed but you can download the whole project from github. (compiled, ready to use).

Sorry if I sabotaged your test with this ...

What ? No you did not at all. that s the reason the mod is available...

Quote from: Wishmaster on October 12, 2017, 04:59:15 PM
It could be simple damages every 2 uses instead... that would however be cheaper than components requirements..

How about random damage every trip ? So you had to do maintenance every time, had to watch out for them, when doing attack runs and a small chance of losing a pod once in a while.
Another thing which I just thought of would be an external launch computer or control pod, which is required to start the other pods.


This would create a possible fast and dirty way to travel with dangers and additional work.
While Cargoships would be slower but more save, you can move alot more cargo with pods.

Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 13, 2017, 06:12:33 AM

Quote from: Wishmaster on October 12, 2017, 04:59:15 PM
It could be simple damages every 2 uses instead... that would however be cheaper than components requirements..

How about random damage every trip ? So you had to do maintenance every time, had to watch out for them, when doing attack runs and a small chance of losing a pod once in a while.
Another thing which I just thought of would be an external launch computer or control pod, which is required to start the other pods.


This would create a possible fast and dirty way to travel with dangers and additional work.
While Cargoships would be slower but more save, you can move alot more cargo with pods.

random damage on every trip means that you could be stuck after a single trip if you don t have colonists on location. (currently you can send pods without colonists to a friendly base and trade with using the comms console).
I like more the idea of 90% damage every 2 trips (or 45% every trip). And or having to use components.

Attacks are made too safe for now but chances to lose a pod. But something like that would be easy to get around by landing to an adjacent tile. Or this should take effect within a certain radius around an enemy base.

If that launch computer was a thing, it would rather be the existing comms console.

===== PS =====

Just created a pool for balance.
Also added a tag on github for the pre-release. Please forgive my amateurishness.

Mod released. Topic locked.
I finally made repair needed every 2 launches. Repair requires component.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1169411104