Ludeon Forums

RimWorld => Releases => Mods => Outdated => Topic started by: Rimrue on June 18, 2017, 01:26:26 AM

Title: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Rimrue on June 18, 2017, 01:26:26 AM
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849340740452112282/2832D50C877DF7292D69DBE29DA32C86B6D80DB9/)

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849340740452220837/5FB4B50ECC05CB89F5204647AA1610A726449139/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black) (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849340740452228282/B97EBD3A9317B9963FDAC13D2E471090A0099501/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black) (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849341486191268902/0CBD2DEB1393E4E483721F914F8177C47FB1A910/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black) (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849341486191256384/1EEB8122B35368DCB095145BE741D5672694D689/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black) (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849340740455290649/6B79A8D8A3C21F425B3320001561571373782D2C/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black) (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/849340740455266800/E8C7637BB3A4CBB93963C0987D72FF482BA90E2D/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C637%3A358&background-color=black)

Description:

Your colony has just survived a brutal pirate raid. Your base is on fire and all your colonists are downed save one--Priscilla the Pop Star Pirate. She's incapable of firefighting and doctoring and she sure isn't going to haul anything or do any cleaning. Guess your colony is done for. Or is it? Not if your pawns are capable!

This mod completely revamps the traits system in Rimworld. Incapabilities have been replaced with traits. Pawns are now no longer incapable of performing jobs. However, based on their traits, they may not like the jobs assigned to them. Not only will they be extremely unhappy if you assign them a job they don't want to do, they will be slower at doing it, and more likely to do a bad job or even fail at it. But in a pinch, when your base is burning down or your doctors are incapacitated or you just need someone to do some hauling, all your pawns are 100% capable!


New traits to replace incapabilities are:

All Thumbs - Crafting
Anti-Social - Social
Brown Thumb - Growing
Burns Water - Cooking
Claustrophobic - Mining
Dislikes Animals - Animals
Dunce - Intellectual
Hates Hospitals - Caring
Inept - Skilled Labor
Pacifist - Violence
Philistine - Art
Pyrophobic - Firefighting
Slacker - Hauling
Slob - Cleaning
Snob - Dumb Labor
Useless - Skilled Labor and Dumb Labor


Additional Traits:

Animal Lover - loves animals and will be very unhappy if assigned to hunting
Early Bird - loves being up early, but hates staying up late
Neat Freak - gets a mood boost for every bit of filth they clean
Outdoorsy - loves being outdoors but hates being indoors
Rockhound - gets a mood boost for every rock they mine
Shut In - hates being outdoors but loves being indoors


Update notes:

3.2

-Pawns are now much less likely to generate with a childhood and adulthood backstory that conflict with each other. E.g. Healer will no longer spawn with the Vengeful Child backstory which makes them hate doctoring.

- The "assigned to hated work" debuff now lasts a minimum of 3 hours.

- Added a configuration option in the mod menu to allow the possibility of pawns to spontaneously generate a hatred for particular jobs (but only if a pawn has no passion for the work), just as they can spontaneously disappear.

3.1

-"Incapable of (none)" no longer appears in the pawns generation screen or the character tab, allowing for up to nine traits to generate. All pawns now generate random vanilla traits (usually two to three), no matter how many "incapable" traits they generate. Useless pawns are no longer so useless!

-The Brown Thumb trait is now linked to both growing and plantcutting as originally intended.

-Pawns with the Animal Lover trait will no longer generate assigned to hunting.

-Non-violent is now called Pacifist

3.0

-Mood debuffs are now time-based. The longer a pawn is assigned to a work type he or she detests, the larger the debuff will become.

- There is now a lingering "I was assigned to work I hate" debuff which will last half as long as the work assignment (but no longer than a day).

- Pawns will no longer generate with assignments to hated work types.

- The severity of mood debuffs is now configurable in the options menu. So if you don't like the default debuff levels, you can select lower or higher settings.

- The work tab now highlights hated work types in amber, so it's easy to tell which jobs pawns hate and which pawns are assigned to those jobs.

- There is now a chance, albeit exceedingly slim, that a pawn assigned to a hated work type will decide it's not so bad after all, and lose the negative trait. But don't expect to be able to just assign pawns to work they hate and wait for their hatred to vanish. Mental breaks are much more common than epiphanies! ;)

- The mod now utilizes a LanguageData def file, to make translation easier.

2.0

- Pawns will no longer have passions for jobs they hate doing. It's possible they still may spawn with skills higher than level 2 or 3, but you can just assume some evil task master had assigned them to doing the work until they got somewhat passable at it.

- Player-created characters will no longer generate random backstories. You can be assured when Engie is rolled it really is Engie. ;)


Compatibility notes:

- This mod can now be added to games without breaking saves. However, existing pawns will not get the new traits, but their incapabilities will disappear. If that's an issue, hold off until you start a new game to install this mod.

- This mod is now 100% compatible with both Rainbeau's Editable Backstories and Rainbeau's Editable Backstories Lite and can be added to games without breaking saves. However, existing pawns will not get the new traits, but their incapabilities will disappear. If that's an issue, hold off until you start a new game to install this mod.

-Now compatible with the Allow Tool mod.

- As of Version 3,0, this mod will DELETE pawns if they are assigned to work they hate or still have a mood debuff from work they hate when you remove the mod. Remove this mod mid-game at your own risk!

-----

Download Pawns Are Capable! 3.2 on Steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=949431734

Older Versions:

Download Pawns Are Capable! 3.2 on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a6o2inzau91jqg2/PawnsAreCapable3.2.zip?dl=0

Download Pawns Are Capable! 3.1 on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rwjghp3i9wnx12/PawnsAreCapable3.1.zip?dl=0

Download Pawns Are Capable 3.0 on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3v3gn47ap0p2tzd/PawnsAreCapable%203.0.zip?dl=0

Download Pawns Are Capable! 2.0 on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksacdn7yhrru9zk/PawnsAreCapable2.0.zip?dl=0

Download Pawns Are Capable! 1.0 on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/un8fbt08n6zl35s/PawnsAreCapable.zip?dl=0

-----

Credit in no particular order:

* Fluffy for helping code the Neat Freak and Rockhound traits
* NoImageAvailable for helping with the added trait generation
* Rainbeau Flambe for helping with everything else!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: SpaceDorf on June 18, 2017, 07:51:29 AM
Subscibed :)

l
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Sebastian Cigar on June 18, 2017, 08:06:42 AM
We needed this so much
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 18, 2017, 03:07:45 PM
Thanks, guys! :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 18, 2017, 06:17:00 PM
Added a few more screenshots which better demonstrate how the traits work. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: GrumpyProgrammer on June 18, 2017, 08:51:05 PM
Quote
-Occasionally you will end up with a pawn with a passion for a job or who has a high skill stat for a job but also has a trait that makes them hate it. I was going to try to fix it, then decided maybe they had bad experience or got burned out or just plain have no aptitude for their passion--just like people in real life.

It might be better in this case to just have the reduction in ability without the accompanying mood debuff. I mean, they're still doing what they love, they're just incompetent at it. Maybe have a 'lite' version of those traits? 'Inept at X', which has the corresponding skill debuff without the mood penalty? Then you can just have the code run through a check to see if a pawn has a passion and only allow the Inept traits.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 18, 2017, 09:39:42 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately I have no idea how you would implement that. My coding skills aren't that advanced yet. Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Modo44 on June 20, 2017, 06:31:46 AM
I see a 404 error when trying to download from Dropbox. Are you sure the file is there, and the link correct?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 11:00:39 AM
It was. Lol I'll check it later today when I get to my computer.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Thirite on June 20, 2017, 11:29:27 AM
Congrats on the release! This really ought to be how vanilla is designed. Maybe if we're lucky Tynan will integrate this into A18. ^^
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 11:41:57 AM
Thanks, Thirite! That would be awesome! I think Pregnancy and Children should be integrated, too. Even in its unfinished state it feels completely vanilla.  :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: faltonico on June 20, 2017, 12:15:17 PM
Congratulation on the final release!

Dropbox link is 404 though =(
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: MercuryDoll on June 20, 2017, 01:43:03 PM
Moderate Issue: Quite frequently visitors and trader caravans are generated with someone with the "Non-Violent" trait, but still have a weapon equipped which they are unwilling to part with for some reason. The massive mood debuff ends in them turning berserk quickly, end result is usually a dead visitor and angered faction.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 02:39:25 PM
I noticed that, too. Lol Non-violents are supposed to be somewhat rare, but the game sure likes to send them with trade caravans. Lol I've got some free loot out of it, but also some mighty  cheesed off factions. Lol I'll disable the thought for non-colonists for that one in the next update. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 03:07:21 PM
Okay, looks like I accidentally deleted the Dropbox file last night. Sorry about that. Link is now updated! :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Pheanox on June 20, 2017, 04:30:13 PM
This is probably an obvious answer, but if this was built on top of Editable Backstories, does that mean the custom backstories I built for that can be used with this?  Also can we use the user made backstories from that mod with this one?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: dburgdorf on June 20, 2017, 05:02:20 PM
This is probably an obvious answer, but if this was built on top of Editable Backstories, does that mean the custom backstories I built for that can be used with this?  Also can we use the user made backstories from that mod with this one?

Technically, yes, but the compatibility isn't as clean as I'd like. Your best bet is actually to hold off just a bit. 

I've been working with Rimrue, and the next version of "Pawns Are Capable!" -- which I assume he'll be releasing within the next day or two -- will be completely independent of (but fully compatible with) "Editable Backstories." It will, when the game is loaded, simply replace the incapabilities in vanilla backstories with the appropriate new traits.

And after he's released the updated version of "Pawns Are Capable!," I'll be releasing updates to both versions of "Editable Backstories" which will, if "Pawns Are Capable!" is in use, make the same adjustments to user-created backstories when the game loads that PAC makes to vanilla backstories.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 05:24:34 PM
^^^ What he said. :) (Except I'm a she. ;) )

Just doing some testing on it now, but it looks like it is 100% save game safe and can be added to and removed from the game without breaking anything (even with REB or REB Lite installed. :) ). Existing pawns won't get the new traits, but their incapabilities will disappear. Lol (I believe the latter should correct itself with REB and REB Lite once they are updated too. :) )

However, the new version will absolutely break games started with the old version. I recommend using the old version until players finish their current game.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: dburgdorf on June 20, 2017, 05:33:56 PM
(Except I'm a she. ;) )

My apologies. Bad assumption. I should know better. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Pheanox on June 20, 2017, 05:40:14 PM
Amazing, I look forward to both of your work combined and working with each other.  Editable backstories is awesome and I enjoy making my own backstories for characters and all that.  It's not the 'random' stories the game was originally meant for but telling my own with my own characters is extremely satisfying to me.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 05:43:33 PM
Version 2.0 is now available! :D

Download here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksacdn7yhrru9zk/PawnsAreCapable2.0.zip?dl=0

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 05:45:29 PM
(Except I'm a she. ;) )

My apologies. Bad assumption. I should know better. :D

No worries. You're not the first. I'm getting used to it. Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: BlueWinds on June 20, 2017, 06:13:28 PM
I'm really excited to give the new version of this mod a try - negative moodlets make so much more sense than blanket bans. I suggested the idea a few months ago somewhere on these forums, so glad to see someone else agrees it's a good way to go. :)

No worries. You're not the first. I'm getting used to it. Lol

I use a female avatar to cut down on confusion, because while I too am used to it, I prefer to give hints where I can. *^^*
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 06:51:12 PM
I just realized I haven't even uploaded a profile pic yet! Will fix. ;)

I've seen the mood debuff suggested a few times now. There's another thread currently discussing it. I'm actually surprised no one else has made a similar mod already!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Pheanox on June 20, 2017, 07:06:58 PM
Quick question for ya.  Will load order matter with your mod and Editable Backstories, if so which one should come first?  Also I assume these traits can be added by Prepare Carefully right?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 20, 2017, 07:25:22 PM
Quick question for ya.  Will load order matter with your mod and Editable Backstories, if so which one should come first?  Also I assume these traits can be added by Prepare Carefully right?

Load order shouldn't matter, but I'll be able to say for sure once I get EB updated later tonight.

And yes, the new traits should all be available in Prepare Carefully.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Ruptga on June 20, 2017, 07:50:06 PM
Excellent, except your steam link is actually a picture.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 20, 2017, 08:04:42 PM
Haha! Oops! Sorry! Here is the real link:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=949431734
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 21, 2017, 02:20:59 PM
Both versions of "Editable Backstories" have been updated for 100% compatibility with the new version of "Pawns Are Capable!" So use 'em together. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 21, 2017, 02:58:08 PM
Awesome! Thanks for all your hard work! :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
Post by: MercuryDoll on June 22, 2017, 08:26:20 AM
However, the new version will absolutely break games started with the old version. I recommend using the old version until players finish their current game.

Bummer, is there a way to "hotfix" 1.0's issue with visitors going berzerk because they're armed pacifists though? it feels close to gamebreaking, at least it poses a rather big balance issue.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 22, 2017, 10:21:32 AM
That is a simple XML fix. I can upload the ThoughtDef file to Dropbox and you can copy it to the ThoughtDefs folder of PaC! That will fix the problem without breaking your game. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: MercuryDoll on June 22, 2017, 10:44:21 AM
Yes please!
Also a suggestion for the next update:

The negative moodlet for people who are assigned for the work they dont like should probably be reduced (drastically).
To offset this and make it more logically, they should get a stackable negative moodlet whenever they actually DO the work they dont like, which can amount to what is currently the moodlet for assigned disliked work. (This would probably have fixed the issue with pacifists berzerking because they got a gun too.)
You could also reinstate some hard traits like doctoring or firefighting disabled, because it would make sense for them to run away in panic from that.
I also noticed negative traits having become a lot more common with pawns gathering up to four negative traits not being a rare sight in case of raiders.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 22, 2017, 02:15:51 PM
I'll upload the XML file when I get to my computer. :)

Thanks for the feedback. :)

We are working on making the negative thoughts stackable.

But I won't be reinstating any disabled work tags, sorry. Lol

As for the negative traits, this mod simply removes the incapabilities in the character backstories and replaces them with corresponding traits. It doesn't increase the chances of getting negative traits. The issue is with the vanilla game itself having too many backstories with incapabilities to begin with. There's not much I can do to balance that, I'm afraid, as tbey are hard coded into the backstories. Even creating a bunch of other traits to try to offset the bad traits (which I'm hesitant to do, as that would make the vanilla traits even less likely to generate) wouldn't help. However, Rainbeau's Editable Backstories tweaks the backstories so you have less annoying pawns generating and creates a better balance in the game. I recommend using it along with Pawns Are Capable!

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 22, 2017, 02:40:05 PM
As for the negative traits, this mod simply removes the incapabilities in the character backstories and replaces them with corresponding traits. It doesn't increase the chances of getting negative traits.

Well, technically, that's not quite true. Granted, it's partly a matter of perception -- seeing a list of negative traits where before you only saw some "incapable of" entries does make it look as if negative traits are more common -- but it's not entirely perception. As it stands now, the new traits, most of which are negative, *can* be randomly assigned to pawns without the incapabilities which they replace. So the mod does effectively increase the odds of pawns having negative traits, at least by a small amount.

I wouldn't recommend completely zeroing out the commonality of the new traits, but they probably should be lowered quite a bit, to make them very rare on pawns that don't have a "reason" to have them.

I should probably also look at the code that assigns traits, to make sure that the fact that pawns have several forced traits doesn't make assignment of random (hopefully beneficial) traits less likely. That doesn't seem to be happening, given how many pawns now have four, five or even six traits, but it wouldn't hurt to be sure.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 22, 2017, 02:51:34 PM
Yes, true, there is a small chance they will show up randomly. I've set the commonality of the negative traits at 0.1 and 0.2, whereas the vanilla traits are usually 0.5. But I can reduce them all to 0.1 or even 0.05 and see if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: wwWraith on June 22, 2017, 04:00:25 PM
If this 0.05 vs 0.5 means that new negative traits should appear approximately once per 10 vanilla traits, I think it still would be too often. I'd suggest its probability as once per 20 pawns so like 1:50 in traits.

But I really like the whole idea, it makes the player to know his/her pawns better, not just looking onto numbers :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 22, 2017, 04:35:49 PM
I admit I suck at math, but wouldn't 0.1 be 1 in 10 and 0.05 be 1 in 20?

Anyway, I'm currently tweaking the commonality numbers. Again, I had already set them quite low compared to the vanilla traits, and they only show up randomly some of the time anyway, as many of the backstories have incapabilities hard-coded into them and thus have no space for random traits. (Priscilla the Pirate, for instance, always seems to show up with the same negative traits.)

Which is why I was suggesting to use PaC in conjunction as REB, because REB removes a lot of that silliness. I use them together myself and find that pawns are far less likely to roll negative traits than with the vanilla game or using REB Lite.

Anyway, will continue tweaking and see if I notice any difference with the vanilla game.

Thanks for the feedback! :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 22, 2017, 04:39:04 PM
All right, as promised here is the link to the XML file that will make Non-Violent non-colonists no longer go berserk while in caravans. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4011vocog5x2uk/Thoughts_Situation_Traits.xml?dl=0

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: wwWraith on June 22, 2017, 04:55:34 PM
I admit I suck at math, but wouldn't 0.1 be 1 in 10 and 0.05 be 1 in 20?

I may be wrong, but I think these numbers are relative weights rather then direct probabilities, so 0.5 only means "10 times more common than 0.05, 2 times more rare than 1", etc.

Anyway, thanks for the update :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 22, 2017, 05:35:50 PM
The commonalities are in fact relative "weights." The chance of a given trait showing up depends upon the total weights of all available traits. If there are only three traits available, for example, with commonalities (weights) of 0.8, 0.4 and 0.2, then those traits would show up roughly 57%, 29% and 14% of the time, respectively. But if you were to add a fourth trait with a weight of 0.8, then the chance of either of the "common" traits showing up would drop to 36%, and the chance of the other traits showing up would drop to 18% and 9%, respectively.

So, knowing the weight of a given trait won't tell you anything about how often it will show up in absolute terms, but only how often it will show up in comparison to other traits.

If vanilla traits typically have weights of about 0.5, and the traits added in this mod have weights of 0.1 or 0.2, the new traits will randomly show up roughly a third as often as vanilla traits. That seems much too high for traits that are primarily intended to replace vanilla incapabilities. (And from what I've seen in testing things, though I hadn't really thought about it until the subject came up here, the new traits do seem to show up randomly with a pretty noticeable frequency.)

Honestly, I'd suggest setting the weights of the mod's traits substantially lower than you've proposed, probably somewhere in the 0.005 - 0.01 range, depending upon just how problematic they are.  They're going to show up often based on backstories, anyway. Additional purely random occurrences should be exceedingly rare.

EDIT: Obviously, the above comments are predicated on the assumption that users of this mod are working from the vanilla backstory database. If someone's using "Editable Backstories" and has eliminated incompatibilities, then with the commonalities I've proposed, the new traits will virtually never show up. But you can't do anything about that. ;) You have to balance the mod for vanilla usage, and assume that those who are making their backstories "kinder" understand that they're inherently making their game easier, and want it that way. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 22, 2017, 06:23:52 PM
My bad. I didn't fully understand how they worked. :/

When I designed the mod, since I was using REB as a base, I found the commonality I'd set to be fairly balanced. Since the update, now playing on vanilla, they do in fact randomly generate much more frequently than I thought they were. So apologies for getting that wrong.

In the next update they will still randomly generate, but very infrequently. After playing around with the numbers, I didn't see much of a difference between 0.05 and 0.001, so I'm going with the former so the traits will at least show up *sometimes* in REB. Lol

But, the other traits are showing up much more frequently now and it's not quite so difficult to find a decent colonist. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: wwWraith on June 26, 2017, 03:50:08 AM
A little observation: the ShutIn trait probably should nullify the CabinFever thought.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 26, 2017, 04:17:59 AM
I considered that but decided that it actually wouldn't. Humans are susceptible to cabin fever whether they prefer staying indoors or not. In fact, shut-ins may actually be more susceptible than others. Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: wwWraith on June 26, 2017, 06:34:56 AM
Hmm, it's seems strange. Or it's me who are strange as I mostly can't get things like "I want it, but I don't want it" :D Or I just got wrong with the terms...
Anyway, you are the boss :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: jecrell on June 26, 2017, 09:38:35 AM
Keep up the good work, Rimrue! Love your mods.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 26, 2017, 03:42:27 PM
Thanks, Jecrell! :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 26, 2017, 11:25:51 PM
New update:

-Mood debuffs are now time-based. The longer a pawn is assigned to a work type he or she detests, the larger the debuff will become.

- The severity of mood debuffs is now configurable in the options menu. So if you don't like the default debuff levels, you can select lower or higher settings.

- The work tab now highlights hated work types in amber, so it's easy to tell which jobs pawns hate and which pawns are assigned to those jobs.

- There is now a chance, albeit exceedingly slim, that a pawn assigned to a hated work type will decide it's not so bad after all, and lose the negative trait. But don't expect to be able to just assign pawns to work they hate and wait for their hatred to vanish. Mental breaks are much more common than epiphanies! ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 26, 2017, 11:51:38 PM
Also:

- There is now a lingering "I was assigned to work I hate" debuff which will last half as long as the work assignment (but no longer than a day).

- Pawns will no longer generate with assignments to hated work types. (Minor bug: Slackers won't be assigned to vanilla hauling, but might end up assigned to "extra" hauling duties like the "Hauling+" added by "Allow Tool." That should be fixed in the next update.)

- The mod now utilizes a LanguageData def file, to make translation easier.
 
:D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 26, 2017, 11:58:20 PM
I knew I was forgetting some stuff. Lol

I've updated the updates notes. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: wwWraith on June 27, 2017, 01:13:15 AM
Nice work, thanks for the update! Highlighting also works in Fluffy's Work Tab (at least with its latest pre-release) :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 01:18:03 AM
Highlighting also works in Fluffy's Work Tab (at least with its latest pre-release)

That's great to know. Thanks! :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rei-No on June 27, 2017, 03:36:46 PM
I'm sorry I don't agree, with what you've done. You put a lot of work into this, to make colony beyond miserable, in any harsh invironment, this isnt' going to fly. You will have constant breaks because of this. The moods will become so bad as to destroy the colony.
If you think about it. you've crashed you've never done work in your life.. but now your faced with surviving, are you really going to just sit there and refuse to lift a finger, like your the queen of All. hmm  really that is so unbelievable, the person who wrote the game has no knowledge at all of what that's like, that is why he wrote it in. If he did he'd understand that people don't refuse work, if they wish to be fed. They may not do it very well, say give them a minus to doing those things until they've learned to do them. but they don't sit on the rears either.  Only in a game environment would it even fly a little. but the story tellers inundate you with those type of people. And rarely give you anything thing different. Give them a minus to that work, but don't put hate on them. I'd just throw them out. they can go feed a wolves. I'm sorry I did try this I nearly croaked when I saw the penalities.  They are just way to over the top.   I tend to put those people into a small box and let them die. the penality the colony suffers is much less, then helping a queen that refuses to work  or casts a hatered spell on eveyone, because she was forced to.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: JT on June 27, 2017, 03:52:09 PM
Just FYI, the general rule in most places is that if you don't like something, just don't install it, rather than ranting about why it's so awful to you. =)

Your argument is a little all over, too: you state that the game developer has no idea what they're doing when disabling the work entirely, but state that this mod developer's solution (not to disable the work entirely) is no solution either.  I'll simply note that all this mod does is empower emergency use.  Doing inhuman things like locking people in rooms because they have undesirable traits is precisely the rationale behind this mod, as it preserves the original game's balance but still allows you to do emergency stuff in a disaster.  The mood penalty is high precisely because that these people are "incapable" of doing these things still -- they can just be compelled to do it very grudgingly.

Finally, mods are mods -- you can edit the mood values to something more to your liking.  Open up Thoughts_Situations_Traits.xml and modify the penalties as you feel fit!  (The mod author hasn't stated permissions so you're not entitled to release those changes as a mod of your own, but you're more than welcome to use it... or not use it.  But we don't need to know that. ;-))
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 27, 2017, 03:58:53 PM
Hi Rei-No,

We've been working hard on an update based on feedback similar to yours.

Mood penalties now scale over time. And you can now reduce the mood penalties in the mod options if you are playing on a more difficult setting/biome. Also there is now a (rare) chance pawns will have a change of heart and will lose the negative trait and the mood debuffs. :)

However it sounds like your biggest issue is with Tynan's game design. That is out of our hands. As JT stated, we are just trying to create a mod that removes the incapabilities without removing the challenge. :)

And yes, if you find the reduced mood debuffs are still too high, you can edit them in the XML file JT mentioned. (But please no publishing those edits. ;) )

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 04:04:18 PM
I'm sorry I don't agree, with what you've done. You put a lot of work into this, to make colony beyond miserable, in any harsh invironment, this isnt' going to fly. You will have constant breaks because of this. The moods will become so bad as to destroy the colony.

If you assign pawns to do work they hate, and then leave them assigned to that work indefinitely, then yes, you'll make your pawns miserable. But that's not because there's anything wrong with the mod. It's because you're mismanaging your colony.

"Pawns Are Capable!" isn't designed as an "easy mode" mod that lets you just assign anyone to do anything and call it good. It replaces colonists who *can't* do particular tasks with colonists who can do them if it's absolutely necessary, but won't be happy about it. As JT noted, assigning pawns to work they hate is something you do in emergencies only.

(Minor side note: changing the mood debuffs in the XML files will *not* have any effect. Since the debuffs are configurable, they're actually set from within the code, and not according to what's in the XML defs. But at the "easy" config setting, the mood debuff for most hated work types during the first 12 hours of an assignment is a piddly -10, so it really shouldn't be crippling.)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 27, 2017, 04:11:44 PM
(Minor side note: changing the mood debuffs in the XML files will *not* have any effect. Since the debuffs are configurable, they're actually set from within the code, and not according to what's in the XML defs. But at the "easy" config setting, the mood debuff for most hated work types during the first 12 hours of an assignment is a piddly -10, so it really shouldn't be crippling.)

That's right. I forgot adding the configuration settings overrided the XML file.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 04:47:26 PM
Responding to a comment by Mrred1 on the "Everyone Can Do Everything" thread:

I think the new update it great, especially with the configurable debuffs. However, the only thing that I don't particularly like (others may disagree, this is just my opinion), is that over time the debuffs increase in severity. I would think that the pawns would get used to the job and maybe become less annoyed about doing it, but that's just my two cents. Great job though!

The debuffs are set to increase over time primarily for two reasons. First, we're trying not to completely undermine the "some pawns aren't suited for some types of work" mechanic that we're replacing. We want to make sure that assignments to hated work types are used sparingly. And second, while your scenario certainly isn't unreasonable, in my own experience -- primarily using myself as an example -- the increasing debuff is more realistic. I know the longer I'm expected to do a job I hate, the more pissed off I get about it. :D

That said, though, you've given me an idea for a possible update.

Right now, there's a very slim chance that a pawn doing hated work will suddenly have an epiphany and no longer hate it. Which is a bit abrupt, but not entirely unbelievable.

But it may make more sense to define the new traits as spectrum traits rather than as static traits. That would allow for a progression. At the first level, the pawn despises the work, and gets mood debuffs that increase over time when forced to do it. But at some random point, the pawn will switch to the second level, with lower and maybe stable debuffs. And so forth, until the "I'll do the work without complaining" point is reached. Make the development less abrupt.

It's worth some thought. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: wwWraith on June 27, 2017, 04:54:01 PM
- snip -

In real life there are many phobias and whatever that make people actually incapable to do some things that others feel ok. Even for the sake of life/world/universe saving. They even know that it's not rational, but this knowledge doesn't help. They just can't force themselves to do these particular things. It is how it was designed in vanilla, so this mod is in fact an "easy mode" that allows you to force them if it's really needed. Of course there are costs, but it's realistically enough.

But at some random point, the pawn will switch to the second level, with lower and maybe stable debuffs.

And I'd suggest also a chance for the controversal scenario, when the pawn starts to hate that job even more ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 27, 2017, 05:15:21 PM
- snip -

In real life there are many phobias and whatever that make people actually incapable to do some things that others feel ok. Even for the sake of life/world/universe saving. They even know that it's not rational, but this knowledge doesn't help. They just can't force themselves to do these particular things. It is how it was designed in vanilla, so this mod is in fact an "easy mode" that allows you to force them if it's really needed. Of course there are costs, but it's realistically enough.

But at some random point, the pawn will switch to the second level, with lower and maybe stable debuffs.

And I'd suggest also a chance for the controversal scenario, when the pawn starts to hate that job even more ;)

Yes, all of this! As someone with a few phobias myself, I know that forcing me to do work that involves facing them would make me absolutely miserable--even borderline hysterical. And if you read some of the backstories with these forced traits, I think these pawns would feel similarly. But I also know that phobias can be overcome by facing those fears head on. So I think having a chance they will have a change in attitude is realistic, but I wouldn't necessarily like to see it happen for every pawn. So maybe just a higher chance they will reach the second stage and learn to endure the work with a still rare chance that they may yet have an epiphany or go the opposite and hate the job even more?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on June 27, 2017, 05:27:41 PM
So maybe just a higher chance they will reach the second stage and learn to endure the work with a still rare chance that they may yet have an epiphany or go the opposite and hate the job even more?

I think that could be fun.

But I also think we should let things "percolate" a bit before we make any more changes. See what people think once they've had a chance to play with it for a bit. And also, I've got some other things I need to get to. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 27, 2017, 05:31:46 PM
Yes, I agree. These ideas can wait till later. I also have stuff to get done. Like real life work. Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Mrred1 on June 27, 2017, 05:54:33 PM
Yes, you deserve some time of your own for life and work. Great job with the mod btw!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: drakulux on June 28, 2017, 05:17:38 AM
Will be trying this out in my upcoming playthrough, just really waiting on psychology sigh.... It would just take so much advantage of this mod too with new type of social interactions, havjng a friend to talk to to reduce debuff, losing your cool and shouting at the colony leader/manager(fluffy manager).
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Jedi0n on June 29, 2017, 12:54:40 PM
So can you load this into an existing save to erase all the colonists negative traits, load paused so nothing new occurs, save, remove mod and have a vanilla colony with negative traits removed? Or would other issues occur doing this?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on June 29, 2017, 01:10:14 PM
Once you remove the mod the original incapabilities will come back. Adding it to an existing colony will remove incapabilities without adding any new traits. But new pawns may generate the new traits.

As for removing the mod, so long as no pawns have any negative moods from work they hate, they won't be deleted. But I make no guarantees there won't be any other errors. That's how it worked when I tested it, but YMMV.

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Wraithling on July 03, 2017, 02:45:09 AM
While I loooove the idea of this mod Rimrue, I had to point out stuff that I didn't quite like. One of that being non-violent visitors and caravan members equipped with weapons. The -75 mood debuff for wielding weapons quickly cause them to berserk, and at the end of the day I have lots of visitors/caravans cutting short their visit and/or injured visitors bleeding all over my base. anyway I hope future versions would fix this, and keep up the good work!  :P
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 03, 2017, 02:49:40 AM
Hi Wraithling, I'm pretty sure I removed that in the last update. Have you got the latest version installed?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Wraithling on July 03, 2017, 02:55:19 AM
You did? My bad!! xD Ok I'm off to redownloading now, and thank you Rimrue!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 03, 2017, 03:10:48 AM
Not sure which version you are running but if upgrading from 1.0 to either 2.0 or 3.0 will break game saves. 2.0 to 3.0 is fine though.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the mod, otherwise. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: moonra on July 05, 2017, 03:27:15 AM
I just added this mod and played with it in a new colony for a while so I have some... hmm, shallow, let's say, feedback. I really like the mod idea and most of the implementation but I dislike the sheer amount of new traits it adds, it kinda overtakes the vanilla traits and you end up with pawns with three of those kiiiinda useless traits like Neat Freak.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: openyourmind on July 05, 2017, 06:54:39 AM
I just added this mod and played with it in a new colony for a while so I have some... hmm, shallow, let's say, feedback. I really like the mod idea and most of the implementation but I dislike the sheer amount of new traits it adds, it kinda overtakes the vanilla traits and you end up with pawns with three of those kiiiinda useless traits like Neat Freak.

This.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 05, 2017, 09:41:59 AM
I just added this mod and played with it in a new colony for a while so I have some... hmm, shallow, let's say, feedback. I really like the mod idea and most of the implementation but I dislike the sheer amount of new traits it adds, it kinda overtakes the vanilla traits and you end up with pawns with three of those kiiiinda useless traits like Neat Freak.

With a few exceptions, the traits added by the mod simply replace vanilla's incapabilities. But the new traits don't "overtake" the basic traits, since in addition to the traits that replace a pawn's incapabilities, the pawn also still gets the normal selection of random traits, so nothing's really lost. You just end up with pawns with longer trait lists.  Typical pawns now have four to six traits instead of two or three. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: wwWraith on July 05, 2017, 10:06:51 AM
But the new traits don't "overtake" the basic traits, since in addition to the traits that replace a pawn's incapabilities, the pawn also still gets the normal selection of random traits, so nothing's really lost. You just end up with pawns with longer trait lists.  Typical pawns now have four to six traits instead of two or three. ;)

I didn't made a thorough test but can't recall any pawn with more than 3 traits (besides some of my starter pawns that had their traits before installing PAC). And sometimes the only traits are those replacing incapabilities. I thought you decided to make it this way after all :) Still personally I don't worry about it.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: moonra on July 05, 2017, 10:21:27 AM
I DID see some pawns with at least 4 traits, but I also got a raider with only 3 [bad] of this mod's traits.

Quote
since in addition to the traits that replace a pawn's incapabilities, the pawn also still gets the normal selection of random traits, so nothing's really lost.

I'd love this mod if the vanilla traits NEVER got replaced with this mod's ones but got some-or-none of them after the vanilla ones, but it doesn't seem to do that. But please do correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 05, 2017, 10:48:58 AM
Hmm. My testing thus far has mostly been with "starting" pawns, as I was working under the assumption that the basic pawn generation routine was handled in the same way for all cases. But that may not actually be true. Starting pawns routinely have four or five traits, but in checking some "visitor" pawns, I didn't come across any that had more than three. I'll have to dig through the code some more.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 05, 2017, 10:52:58 AM
Moonra, the mod replaces incapabilities which are hardcoded into the backstories. So if you are seeing a lot of negative traits it's because there are a LOT of incapabilities in the backstories. The game allows up to 4 slots for traits, so unfortunately, if the backstories have 4 or more incapabilities then all of the trait slots will be taken up by the corresponding negative traits.

Often the game will add on a third or fourth random trait if there is space. But raiders, unfortunately are the worst for having vanilla incapabilities and therefore this mod's negative traits. :/
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: openyourmind on July 05, 2017, 11:36:17 AM
the thing is though, in vanilla no colonists get mood bonus for cleaning, nor do they get for mining or staying inside (mining only from passion). so if there was a way to disable additional traits, it would be more closer to vanilla game, rather than add something different.

Could you maybe advise on how to do that? Other traits seem fine and do their job as they should.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 05, 2017, 11:49:00 AM
If enough of you guys want a mod option to disable the additional traits, we could probably do that if it's not too difficult.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: moonra on July 05, 2017, 02:13:32 PM
I don't think they should ALL be disabled, I just think that there's too many and a bunch of them are kinda boring, like Neat Freak and Slob, and just take up space from the more interesting ones.

The main problem I have with this is that for me traits is the most important part of a pawn, followed by passions and then skills, so when I see pawns with very good passions and skills but look at their traits and it's "Burns Water/Claustrophobic/Outdoorsy" it makes me think that their most important stats are wasted because I'd probably not assign them to cooking or mining anyway and those traits could be something better/more defining.

I'd love to have a great solution for this but the only thing I can think right now is cutting a bunch of the traits off but that's kind of the entire point of this mod. The best way of course would be to have hates to be the opposite of passions, but I'm sure that would've been done if it was possible.

Is there a way to make the game generate the mod pawn with vanilla traits BEFORE adding the mod traits? I think that could work well.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 05, 2017, 02:49:57 PM
All the negative traits are directly corresponding to the incapabilities they replace. If we were, say, to remove Slob, then Cleaning would become an incapability again. I tried to keep the number of negative traits to the bare minimum necessary to replace incapabilities, but, yes, it is still a fair few. There really was no getting around it.

However, Rainbeau and I are discussing if there is a way to generate more of the vanilla traits on top of the negative traits generated by the incapabilities. Unfortunately, as I keep repeating, due to the ridiculously high number of incapabilities in the backstories, these traits generate quite frequently on pawns. If there were fewer incapabilities in the game, we'd have fewer negative traits generating on pawns. :/

I'm sorry you think Neat Freak is a boring trait. It happens to be one of my favourites. It's tough enough to get a clean base in this game, so having a pawn that loves to clean is always a bonus for me. ;)

It (and Rockhound) are based off the Green Thumb trait (another favourite of mine). Early Bird is the opposite of Night Owl (as someone married to a bona fide Early Bird, it seemed odd that only people who like to be up at night would get a mood bonus). And Outdoorsy and Shut-in are also based off Night Owl (again, seemed odd that people wouldn't get a mood bonus based on whether they prefer being indoors or out). They are all set to appear quite rarely, though. As an example, in my current colony of 14, I have one Rockhound and none of the other additional traits at all. Even in my testing, it can take a LOT of re-rolling to find these traits. So I do not think they are appearing to frequently.

Anyway, as I said above, we are looking into it and will see what we can do.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: moonra on July 05, 2017, 03:25:02 PM
All you need is a useless pawn that isn't incapable of dumb labor and there's your cleaner. I just happened to get one like that, which was great 'cause I was using a pretty capable pawn for cleaning/hauling, so he freed her from that duty.

Quote
As an example, in my current colony of 14, I have one Rockhound and none of the other additional traits at all. Even in my testing, it can take a LOT of re-rolling to find these traits. So I do not think they are appearing to frequently.
Those certainly aren't the problem, I just mentioned Neat Freak 'cause I really think it's a boring trait, no offense intended. The real problem is indeed the backstory-related incapability ones. If I would do an edit of this mod I'd probably remove a bunch of the incapability on those backgrounds, but I have to admit that I pretty much don't pay attention to the background stories, to me it's mostly fluff. But I do realize those are important to some players/modders.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 05, 2017, 03:39:39 PM
But you must pay attention to the "incapable of" section of the character tab? If I get a character (Sherriff, Model, Assassin, etc.) who is incapable of dumb labour, manual labour, and any other type of work, even if they are a beautiful, optimistic careful shooter, I'm going to hit the randomize button. And if they show up as prisoners? Strong chance they'll end up executed or sold as slaves. Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: moonra on July 05, 2017, 03:52:59 PM
Oh, of course, I just meant that I wouldn't care if you removed half of the "NAME got a fear of fire after seeing hundreds of burn victims caused by the war", those incapabilities created by the backstory to give it flavor.
TBH I think most of those in the vanilla game are somewhat fine, although I think they're too "gamey", they work in terms of game mechanics but feel stupid in the context of the game, even a pyromaniac would put out fires if not doing so meant their certain death, the stupid popstar would probably take a beating if she forever refused to do "dumb labor", etc. I really hope Tynan introduces a hate system to oppose the passion one.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 05, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
Oh, yes. We are both in full agreement there. Waaayyy too many incapabilities in the backstories, especially the player-created ones.  ::)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: skullywag on July 06, 2017, 08:33:19 AM
ok so after using this in a CE playthrough, I have a few things to report:

Seriously, I have read the points above and yes thats all valid, the issue isnt so much that theres too many traits to cover the incapabilities its that they take up space the good traits normally would. I have 20 guys in my colony, I dont have any traits that I would class as good, no sanguines, no fast walkers, none with faster work speeds, no green thumbs. I even for the 1st game in forever have literally nobody good at crafting (everyone on 3 skill no passion, bar 2 of my starters i rolled specifically to battle this issue). No idea why this is the case bar terribad RNG possibly.

The other issue i have is that im finding myself simply avoiding the work they dont want to do anyway due to the penalties involved, in a pinch it might be useful but day to day im doing exactly what i did in the vanilla trait game.

I like the idea of the mod, but due to restrictions from the base game my personal feeling is that it doesnt work...for me...which annoys me, cuz i want it to work. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 06, 2017, 12:00:28 PM
Thanks for the constructive feedback, Skully.
:)

 
The other issue i have is that im finding myself simply avoiding the work they dont want to do anyway due to the penalties involved, in a pinch it might be useful but day to day im doing exactly what i did in the vanilla trait game.

That is WAD. They are capable, but only barely. Lol But seriously, they are meant to have their work assignments turned off most of the time, only being enabled in emergency or temporary situations.

Quote
ok so after using this in a CE playthrough, I have a few things to report:

Seriously, I have read the points above and yes thats all valid, the issue isnt so much that theres too many traits to cover the incapabilities its that they take up space the good traits normally would. I have 20 guys in my colony, I dont have any traits that I would class as good, no sanguines, no fast walkers, none with faster work speeds, no green thumbs. I even for the 1st game in forever have literally nobody good at crafting (everyone on 3 skill no passion, bar 2 of my starters i rolled specifically to battle this issue). No idea why this is the case bar terribad RNG possibly.

This is a valid concern, however. You have the latest update 3.0? In earlier versions negative traits were generating far too frequently.  But they should only really show up on pawns with backstories that have them now. In my latest colonies (both testing and not), I have only a few colonists with negative traits. Nearly all my pawns have vanilla traits. That being said, we may have discovered a bug where pirates don't generate traits aside from the negative ones. So if all your colonists are ex-pirates, that may be why. :/

Quote
I like the idea of the mod, but due to restrictions from the base game my personal feeling is that it doesnt work...for me...which annoys me, cuz i want it to work. :)

We will keep tweaking. :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: skullywag on July 06, 2017, 12:41:49 PM
Ill check im up to date tonight and yes that pirate bug thingy might be at play here. Ill keep an eye on this.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: wwWraith on July 06, 2017, 01:23:21 PM
I'd like to clarify once more. It looks like it's not the "pirate bug" but just the same pawn generation routine in all the cases except starting. I think that the algorithm is pretty simple and natural: at first the game generates backstories, and adds corresponding incompatibility traits. Only after this step it tries to add "common" traits, but if there are already "too many" of them, it won't add more (because this algorithm couldn't suppose that there will be traits that should be ignored in the counting). The starting pawns (probably generated by EdB Prepare Carefully) may have as many additional traits as the player wanted because their generation is forced. Even this "incompatibilities" could be removed. But when I tried to randomize starting pawns without EdB Prepare Carefully and when I saw a pawn with 4 traits all of them were just added by backstories. So I hope you'll take a look at it as a whole rather than trying to find some specific cases in pirates or whatever.

But the second thing is that at least standard interface isn't capable of showing more than 4 traits. So even if you'll manage to add the "common" traits after "incompatibilities", in some cases the player won't be able to know about some of them.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: NoImageAvailable on July 06, 2017, 01:41:23 PM
But the second thing is that at least standard interface isn't capable of showing more than 4 traits. So even if you'll manage to add the "common" traits after "incompatibilities", in some cases the player won't be able to know about some of them.

That's kind of issue here. The way trait generation works is it'll start out by adding backstory-forced traits, roll a random number between 2 and 3, add the gay trait if they generated as a same-sex relationship and only then it starts filling up random traits to the previously rolled limit. The problem with this mod is its adding incapabilities as forced traits, rendering all those Sheriff types even less useful because now all their trait slots will be hogged by incapability traits.

I've sent Rimrue some code to extend random trait generation to the maximum of 4 traits that can be displayed, but at best this'll give you 1-2 additional trait slots and the incapable of anything types usually have enough incapabilities to hog all 4 of them, so its not really a solution.

For my part I still think the best way to solve this is to drop the trait system entirely and instead repurpose vanilla's incapable of interface. Replace its function with the one from this mod so that way traits are completely untouched and you don't get an entire unused Incapable of section in the character tab.

Alternatively if you absolutely must go with traits you could always rewrite the character tab to replace the now unneeded incapable of section with additional space for traits, so as to break the 4 trait limit.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.0!
Post by: Rimrue on July 06, 2017, 02:15:13 PM
For my part I still think the best way to solve this is to drop the trait system entirely and instead repurpose vanilla's incapable of interface. Replace its function with the one from this mod so that way traits are completely untouched and you don't get an entire unused Incapable of section in the character tab.

Alternatively if you absolutely must go with traits you could always rewrite the character tab to replace the now unneeded incapable of section with additional space for traits, so as to break the 4 trait limit.

We are looking at both these options. :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 02:42:22 AM
All right, per your requests, Pawns Are Capable has now been updated to remove the "Incapable of (none)" section of the pawn generation screen and the character tab, allowing up to nine traits to generate per pawn. This means, no matter how many "incapable" traits a pawn generates, they WILL ALWAYS generate random vanilla traits. Usually 2-3 just like in the vanilla game. Useless pawns aren't quite so useless anymore!

Download Pawns Are Capable! 3.1 on Steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=949431734

Download Pawns Are Capable! 3.1 on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rwjghp3i9wnx12/PawnsAreCapable3.1.zip?dl=0

ALSO, per your requests, Rainbeau has released Pawns Are Capable (no traits). Instead the "Incapable of (none)" section of the pawn generation screen and the character tab have been replaced with "Hated work types". Because there are no traits, pawns will not be slower or worse at a job, but they will still get a mood debuff that gets worse over time. Otherwise, the mods are almost identical in functionality.

Download Pawns Are Capable (no traits) on Steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=969096940

Download Pawns Are Capable (no traits) on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0segkjzfwc2kg5u/R%26R%27s%20Pawns%20Are%20Capable%20%28No%20Traits%29.zip?dl=0

Try them both, see which works best for your play style! And enjoy having pawns that are 100% capable! :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: skullywag on July 07, 2017, 03:12:26 AM
Jeez. Speedy work guys! Ill deffo have a crack at this in my next play session.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 03:43:19 AM
Thanks! Hopefully there are no serious bugs! Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: moonra on July 07, 2017, 03:50:13 AM
Damn, that's awesome. I'm very glad that my criticism after, like, an hour of gameplay was well-accepted and helped you guys make those versions.

Just one question, should I only use those on new colonies? 'Cause I'm really liking my current one and would dearly miss it.

Thanks for the amazing and fast-as-hell work, guys!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 04:23:42 AM
It's all good. We want to make the best mods we can, so are always open to constructive criticism. :)

Either mod should be safe to install on an existing game. If you go with the original version of the mod, your existing pawns will lose their incapabilities, but may not generate the corresponding new traits. Newly generated pawns, of course, will get the corresponding traits. If you go with the no traits version, then you shouldn't notice a difference at all as it just replaces the "Incapable of" with "Hated work types".

But try them both and see which you prefer. :)

Just be sure none of your pawns have a mood debuff when you remove either mod as the game will delete that pawn!

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 09:04:48 AM
@Rimrue, I've got an existing colony using the previous version of this mod, how will upgrading affect the colony?

If I switch to the 'No Traits' version what will that do?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 09:47:57 AM
@Rimrue, I've got an existing colony using the previous version of this mod, how will upgrading affect the colony? If I switch to the 'No Traits' version what will that do?

Upgrading won't cause any problems. The 3.1 version is fully backward-compatible with the 3.0 version.

As to switching to the "no traits" version, you should be fine, subject to the standard caveat for removing PAC from a game in progress. Make sure before you remove it or switch versions that none of your pawns are assigned to hated work types, and that none of them still have any "lingering" mood debuffs from such assignments.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 11:01:12 AM
In my testing I have found if they are assigned to work they hate or have a lingering debuff from it, pawns will be deleted from the game. So switch with caution!

Unless you really hate those pawns and want any easy way to get rid of them. Lol
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 11:32:07 AM
In my testing I have found if they are assigned to work they hate or have a lingering debuff from it, pawns will be deleted from the game. So switch with caution!

Unless you really hate those pawns and want any easy way to get rid of them. Lol

Even useless pawns are worth organ farming :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 01:45:44 PM
Okay, I've got a gripe...the first couple times I saw it I just kinda scratched my head and was like 'RNG sucks' but now I'm starting to think it's more than just bad RNG and could be a bug...

I keep seeing pawns with the Healer backstory (and typically the Healer nickname) who have the trait Hates Hospitals, which I could kinda understand if it actually meant they hated technologically advanced healing institutions since it would mean their ancient traditions were probably being ignored or made obsolete...but it actually makes them hate being assigned to Doctoring which negates the Healer backstory and associated bonuses and passions for Medicine.

Could someone check if there's something going on here that's a bug or even just make it impossible to have the Hates Hospitals trait with the Healer backstory? It's not just infuriating it's stupid.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 02:12:07 PM
What's their childhood backstory? There are a couple tribal stories that disable doctoring. Sole survivor I think and ... can't recall the other. Unfortunately that's the vanilla game. It has the capability of checking for required work types for backstories, but few of the backstories have the required work tags. :/

This is why I play with Editable Backstories which corrects a lot of that silliness.

But we can double check there isn't some sort of bug going on. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 02:24:53 PM
What's their childhood backstory? There are a couple tribal stories that disable doctoring. Sole survivor I think and ... can't recall the other. Unfortunately that's the vanilla game. It has the capability of checking for required work types for backstories, but few of the backstories have the required work tags. :/

This is why I play with Editable Backstories which corrects a lot of that silliness.

But we can double check there isn't some sort of bug going on. :)

The only one I can recall is the most recent one, had Vengeful child and Healer as the two backstories. It was kinda the final straw for me and I had to come say something about it because it was a 'Calls for Help' incident and I only have 1 healer atm in the colony so when I saw 38 year old Healer I was like, 'FUCK YEAH I'LL SAVE YOU FROM THOSE FILTHY PIRATES!' And then she popped up on the map with Hates Hospitals and I wanted to stab her in the neck myself and then let the pirates have her.

I haven't really looked at Editable Backstories at all, I figured it was in the line with Prepare Carefully and wouldn't affect my game much beyond that starting conditions. Does it do more than that?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 02:32:32 PM
Yes, that's the other one. :(

I don't know if there is a way we could fix that from happening in this mod. But believe me, I find it just as frustrating when backstories cancel abilities out. :/

Definitely Tynan needs to address it. It really is as simple as adding <requiredWork>Caring</requiredWork> to the Healer backstory. But since backstories are assets and not XML files it's not like we can just add it with a patch. :(
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 02:41:15 PM
Yes, that's the other one. :(

I don't know if there is a way we could fix that from happening in this mod. But believe me, I find it just as frustrating when backstories cancel abilities out. :/

Definitely Tynan needs to address it. It really is as simple as adding <requiredWork>Caring</requiredWork> to the Healer backstory. But since backstories are assets and not XML files it's not like we can just add it with a patch. :(

I'll just keep an eye on future 'Healers' that I see, but I don't mind so much when an adult backstory cancels a childhood one because things happen and as you grow up maybe you grow away from something...but when it's the reverse it's just maddening. How do you grow into something that's made impossible by your youth?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 02:58:20 PM
I haven't really looked at Editable Backstories at all, I figured it was in the line with Prepare Carefully and wouldn't affect my game much beyond that starting conditions. Does it do more than that?

The base version of "Pawns Are Capable!" unfortunately can create mismatches like the ones you're seeing.

One of the main ways that vanilla RimWorld makes sure backstories "synch" is through the use of required and disabled work tags. The "Healer" adult backstory, for example, requires the "Doctor" work tag (technically, it requires the "Caring" work type, but the end result is the same), and so won't be matched with a childhood backstory which disables it.

The childhood backstories you're seeing, in vanilla, disable that work tag, since the pawns are incapable of "Caring" work. And so they normally wouldn't be paired with the "Healer" adult story. But since PAC removes the incapability, replacing it with a trait, those backstories no longer disable the "Doctor" work tag as far as the vanilla game is concerned.

"Editable Backstories" has somewhat more robust checking than the vanilla game to make sure that backstories don't contradict each other. And it specifically looks at the traits added by PAC in conducting its checks. So even though the vanilla game doesn't recognize that "Hates Hospitals" + "Healer" makes no sense, EB will know better than to pair them together.

The base version of EB completely replaces the backstory database with a fully editable set of backstories. Obviously, as its author, I think that's a good thing, but I recognize that opinions can vary. ;) The "Lite" version of EB allows additions to the backstory database, but doesn't alter the base collection in any way. Either version will improve the filtering of backstories, though, and should help to prevent the sort of nonsensical backstory pairings you're seeing.

(Yet another option, of course, would be to try the "no traits" version of PAC, since that one doesn't alter the data upon which the vanilla game bases its match filtering.)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 03:14:53 PM
See this is where my rudimentary understanding of coding gets me into trouble. Lol I thought those requiredWork tags would still work in PaC!

So it would seem for the next update we should institute a few checks so backstories which do have those requiredWork tags work properly in PaC!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 05:12:40 PM
The base version of "Pawns Are Capable!" unfortunately can create mismatches like the ones you're seeing.

One of the main ways that vanilla RimWorld makes sure backstories "synch" is through the use of required and disabled work tags. The "Healer" adult backstory, for example, requires the "Doctor" work tag (technically, it requires the "Caring" work type, but the end result is the same), and so won't be matched with a childhood backstory which disables it.

The childhood backstories you're seeing, in vanilla, disable that work tag, since the pawns are incapable of "Caring" work. And so they normally wouldn't be paired with the "Healer" adult story. But since PAC removes the incapability, replacing it with a trait, those backstories no longer disable the "Doctor" work tag as far as the vanilla game is concerned.

"Editable Backstories" has somewhat more robust checking than the vanilla game to make sure that backstories don't contradict each other. And it specifically looks at the traits added by PAC in conducting its checks. So even though the vanilla game doesn't recognize that "Hates Hospitals" + "Healer" makes no sense, EB will know better than to pair them together.

The base version of EB completely replaces the backstory database with a fully editable set of backstories. Obviously, as its author, I think that's a good thing, but I recognize that opinions can vary. ;) The "Lite" version of EB allows additions to the backstory database, but doesn't alter the base collection in any way. Either version will improve the filtering of backstories, though, and should help to prevent the sort of nonsensical backstory pairings you're seeing.

(Yet another option, of course, would be to try the "no traits" version of PAC, since that one doesn't alter the data upon which the vanilla game bases its match filtering.)

I considered switching to the  'no traits' version, but I didn't want to create a new colony yet so I'm still using the original because I thought it would be weird to have a handful of colonists from before the switch.

And I appreciate your answer, but I didn't really get a clear answer about Editable Backstories. Does it do more than just help with colony start up? Will it affect raiders, visitors, and other pawns in an on going game?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 05:19:19 PM
And I appreciate your answer, but I didn't really get a clear answer about Editable Backstories. Does it do more than just help with colony start up? Will it affect raiders, visitors, and other pawns in an on going game?

Sorry; I guess I assumed the answer was implicit in my response. ;) The changes to the available backstories and to backstory "match filtering" (for lack of a better term) apply to every pawn created by the game, no matter when or why that pawn is generated.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 05:23:07 PM
Sorry; I guess I assumed the answer was implicit in my response. ;) The changes to the available backstories and to backstory "match filtering" (for lack of a better term) apply to every pawn created by the game, no matter when or why that pawn is generated.

That's what I figured from what you said, but I wanted to be sure :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 05:39:23 PM
Just be aware that Editable Backstories will generate new backstories for all your pawns if you add it mid-game!

In the meantime, if you want to fix your healers so they can actually heal, you can go into your save file and change their childhood backstory to <childhood>TribeChild78</childhood>. The easiest way to do this is to search up the name of your pawn (Croio or Vasalo or Blue or whatever) and then scroll down till you find the <story> tag and then change the <childhood>VengefulChild</childhood> (or whatever it is) tag right below it to the Tribe Child one above. Tribe Child has no incapabilities. So you could also use it on other tribal pawns with similar incongruous backstories if you needed to.

But I think there may be a way to fix PaC! so the healers (and other backstories with the <workRequired> tag) won't generate with childhood backstories that cancel them out. Look for that in the next update. :)

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 05:56:53 PM
Just be aware that Editable Backstories will generate new backstories for all your pawns if you add it mid-game!

I should have thought to mention that myself. However, it actually only applies to the full version. The "lite" version, since it doesn't alter the default backstory database, can safely be added to games in progress.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 06:02:04 PM
Good point. Does the Lite version have the checks to prevent backstory incongruencies?

I usually play using the Lite version myself. Plus it has the extra Tribal backstories. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Spiders Everywhere on July 07, 2017, 08:24:04 PM
How does this interact with mods that let you directly order pawns to do work they're not assigned to, like Force Do Job?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 08:56:50 PM
How does this interact with mods that let you directly order pawns to do work they're not assigned to, like Force Do Job?

I'm pretty sure Pawns Are Capable would make Force Do Job irrelevant because with PAC there's no job a pawn can't be told to prioritize, though if they're flagged for work they don't like they'll take a mood penalty.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 07, 2017, 09:40:55 PM
Does the Lite version [of "Editable Backstories"] have the checks to prevent backstory incongruencies?

Yep. Both versions use the same filtering code.

How does this interact with mods that let you directly order pawns to do work they're not assigned to, like Force Do Job?

I haven't actually tried it, but if the mod does what I think it does (tell the pawn to do job X even if it's of a work type to which they're not actually assigned, such as telling someone not assigned to cooking to prepare a single meal), then it'll probably bypass the mood penalties. If you try it, let us know what you find out.  ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 09:57:42 PM
Just did some testing. Force Do Job causes no errors, however it also does not give pawns a negative mood for being forced to do a job they hate. Clearly that will need a patch in the next update. Lol Until then, enjoy being able to force pawns to do work without getting a negative mood from it. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 09:59:41 PM
Does the Lite version [of "Editable Backstories"] have the checks to prevent backstory incongruencies?

Yep. Both versions use the same filtering code.

Ah, that would explain why I never have issues in my personal games. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Spiders Everywhere on July 07, 2017, 10:12:48 PM
Just did some testing. Force Do Job causes no errors, however it also does not give pawns a negative mood for being forced to do a job they hate. Clearly that will need a patch in the next update. Lol Until then, enjoy being able to force pawns to do work without getting a negative mood from it. ;)

Hah, ok! I'll try not to exploit it too much  :P
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: lorebot on July 07, 2017, 10:13:08 PM
Does the Lite version [of "Editable Backstories"] have the checks to prevent backstory incongruencies?

Yep. Both versions use the same filtering code.

Ah, that would explain why I never have issues in my personal games. :)

The joys of making mods while using mods :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 07, 2017, 10:24:12 PM
Well, I do tend to turn off the other mods while testing. Lol But it's no fun playing with just one mod, so I admit that sometimes my testing isn't quite as thorough as it could be.  :P Good thing we've got you guys to catch the problems so we can fix them.  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 08, 2017, 09:35:32 AM
@rimrue and dburgdorf

another thing I thought of according to the "incabable traits" is how about generating fitting counter traits like
brown thumb has green thumb, pacifist has trigger happy and careful shooter,
only to rig the numbers game of generating traits by having similiar numbers of good and bad outcomes.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: Rimrue on July 08, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
I thought of adding more good traits to balance the bad ones, but there are already a few traits mods out there that do that. Additional Traits has a bunch with skill buffs that mesh nicely with the traits in PaC.  Extended Traits also has a few. But I haven't patched those mods (patching is my nemesis. Lol) to prevent the good traits from generating on pawns with "incapable" traits yet.

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.1!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 08, 2017, 02:56:48 PM
Speaking from experience. It does  ;D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Rimrue on July 13, 2017, 11:20:51 PM
Updated Pawns Are Capable! to version 3.2!

-Pawns are now much less likely to generate with a childhood and adulthood backstory that conflict with each other. E.g. Healer will no longer spawn with the Vengeful Child backstory which makes them hate doctoring.

- The "assigned to hated work" debuff now lasts a minimum of 3 hours.

- Added a configuration option in the mod menu to allow the possibility of pawns to spontaneously generate a hatred for particular jobs (but only if a pawn has no passion for the work), just as they can spontaneously disappear.

Steam and Dropbox links updated in the OP! :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: mrsebseb on July 25, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
Getting an error when using this with Rimslaves and/or Minions.

Code: [Select]
Exception in Tick (pawn=Maiden172150, job=Clean A=Thing_FilthAnimalFilth217593, CurToil=4): System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at PawnsAreCapable.HarmonyPatches.Pawn_RecordsTracker_Increment.Prefix (RimWorld.RecordDef,RimWorld.Pawn_RecordsTracker) <0x00036>
at (wrapper dynamic-method) RimWorld.Pawn_RecordsTracker.Increment_Patch1 (object,RimWorld.RecordDef) <0x00018>
at CleaningArea.JobDriver_CleanFilth_CleaningArea.<MakeNewToils>b__6_1 () <0x00085>
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.DriverTick () <0x00322>
 lastJobGiver=Verse.JobGiver_SlaveCleanFilth, curJob.def=Clean, curDriver=CleaningArea.JobDriver_CleanFilth_CleaningArea
Verse.Log:Error(String)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartErrorRecoverJob(String)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick()
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick()
Verse.Pawn:Tick()
Verse.TickList:Tick()
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick()
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate()
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay()
Verse.Root_Play:Update()

It happens as soon as a minion or slave finishes cleaning.
Tried fiddling with the load order, but it changes nothing.
It only seems to be cleaning and there is not a problem with other mods that adds "animals" that can clean, like Misc Robots, for instance.
I've reported the error to Walking Problem as well.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 11:43:23 AM
Getting an error when using this with Rimslaves and/or Minions.

I haven't used either of those mods, but I can certainly make a note to look into it and see if I can figure out what's going wrong.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 25, 2017, 11:58:03 AM
They both override the AnimalJobGiver and use their own,
it may be because of that.
I use PaC and Minions together and had no Problems so far ( at least not with those two .. )
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 25, 2017, 12:53:30 PM
They both override the AnimalJobGiver and use their own....

Neither version of PAC makes any changes to AnimalJobGiver, but if the modified version of the method references something that PAC *does* change, that could potentially be the source of trouble. So I have at least an idea of where to look, now, when I get home. ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 25, 2017, 01:28:02 PM
They both override the AnimalJobGiver and use their own....

Neither version of PAC makes any changes to AnimalJobGiver, but if the modified version of the method references something that PAC *does* change, that could potentially be the source of trouble. So I have at least an idea of where to look, now, when I get home. ;)

I guess you do the same for the pawns, and if your pawn jobgiver calls the original one or your own, it gives an error
because it can't find anything.
So the game has to wait until the jobgiver of the minions calls on them.

Other possibilities : Slaves are based on humanbodies, but I guess have a radically altered prisoner behavior in comparison
Minions are also based on the humanlike body .. maybe they get called because of this .. else other modded animals should create a similiar error. .. or not ..
Thirites Baby's on the other hand follow normal Pawn behavior and do work perfectly fine with PaC
----- EDIT -----
-> If someone could try the GameOfThrone Slaves .. they should show the same behavior as minions.
I just noticed I mixed those up with SlaveLabor from Thirite which forces Prisoners to work for you ..
RimSlaves/Minions are exactly the same. The same author the same main technique.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: mrsebseb on July 26, 2017, 06:43:24 AM
They both override the AnimalJobGiver and use their own,
it may be because of that.
I use PaC and Minions together and had no Problems so far ( at least not with those two .. )
Really?
I get the issue when using nothing but PaC and Minions.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 26, 2017, 06:55:59 AM
I did not say, I don't get the same error messages when running debug.

What I did say is .. that I ran several colonies using both mods ( and about 220 others )
together without encountering problems.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: mrsebseb on July 26, 2017, 07:49:48 AM
I did not say, I don't get the same error messages when running debug.

What I did say is .. that I ran several colonies using both mods ( and about 220 others )
together without encountering problems.

Not what you said at all. Might've been what you meant, but those are two very different things.
Either way that clears things up a bit.  :)
I've not noticed any real issues stemming from the errors either, and I've got roughly 180 other mods myself.
Just figured I'd report the error.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 26, 2017, 07:53:15 AM
I have to admit english is only my second language.
So mistakes happen.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: mrsebseb on July 26, 2017, 08:00:25 AM
I have to admit english is only my second language.
So mistakes happen.

Mine too. and it happens.
In fact I quite frequently spend a long time writing a well thought out response and posting it, only to read it over later and realize I sound like a crazy drunk person because I missed typing out several words necessary in making my thoughts even remotely comprehensible. 
You'd think I would learn at some point  ;D
 
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on July 26, 2017, 09:30:22 AM
In fact I quite frequently spend a long time writing a well thought out response and posting it, only to read it over later and realize I sound like a crazy drunk person because I missed typing out several words necessary in making my thoughts even remotely comprehensible.

I'm a native English speaker with (I believe) reasonable competency in communication. And I STILL do that far more often than I care to admit. :D
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: moonra on July 28, 2017, 02:50:59 AM
As a perfectionist with a fear of failure that has English as a second language as well, sometimes I write a reply/message/comment/etc and don't post it because I can't find the right word for something or things like that, it's annoying.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on July 28, 2017, 06:46:17 AM
I ask google then .. native word in .. synonyms out ..
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: skullywag on August 12, 2017, 11:30:11 AM
Im also getting a conflict with my WIP rimbots mod:

Code: [Select]
Exception in Tick (pawn=CleanBot1570007, job=Clean A=Thing_FilthDirt1569925, CurToil=4): System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at PawnsAreCapable.HarmonyPatches.Pawn_RecordsTracker_Increment.Prefix (RimWorld.RecordDef,RimWorld.Pawn_RecordsTracker) <0x00036>
at (wrapper dynamic-method) RimWorld.Pawn_RecordsTracker.Increment_Patch1 (object,RimWorld.RecordDef) <0x00015>
at RimWorld.JobDriver_CleanFilth/<MakeNewToils>c__Iterator26.<>m__76 () <0x00097>
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.DriverTick () <0x00322>
 lastJobGiver=RimBots.JobGiver_Clean, curJob.def=Clean, curDriver=RimWorld.JobDriver_CleanFilth

I have a custom set of jobs using custom workgiver_scanners hooked into their thinktree, weird how in both errors on this thread its cleaning filth related.

In this instance these bots may as well be animals they dont have skills, backstories or anything else that would make them humanlike, so if your code is looking at anything in that area, that may be the issue.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 12, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
I have a custom set of jobs using custom workgiver_scanners hooked into their thinktree, weird how in both errors on this thread its cleaning filth related.

In this instance these bots may as well be animals they dont have skills, backstories or anything else that would make them humanlike, so if your code is looking at anything in that area, that may be the issue.

You're the man Skully .. it's so obvious now .. of course does the code look into this area to determine if a pawn is doing something he does not like. .. And the code has to look because Minions and Slaves are based on the humanlike body def.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: skullywag on August 12, 2017, 02:27:38 PM
hmmm, need something to check before going into that bit of code, something that your code needs to work. Does a backstory suffice? most pawns that have backstory would be full fledged pawns, my bots dont so theyd be free from this error, slaves I guess are similar???
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Modo44 on August 15, 2017, 05:10:51 AM
I think the mood debuffs this mod introduces are too severe. It's basically an automatic mental break after a day of doing anything a pawn doesn't like. Might make sense to risk it during a raid, but really never otherwise.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: skullywag on August 15, 2017, 07:11:00 AM
It has options. Lower the penalties if you feel its too much.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: sirgzu on August 15, 2017, 07:15:00 AM
Not sure if it is related to this mod but I have 3/10 colonists with identical nicknames and backstories.

I started with the one dude scenario and two more joined, with same nicks and backstories, although different stats/age.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Oblitus on August 15, 2017, 07:20:01 AM
Not sure if it is related to this mod but I have 3/10 colonists with identical nicknames and backstories.

I started with the one dude scenario and two more joined, with same nicks and backstories, although different stats/age.
Probably pre-made characters (from backer rewards). Not related to the mod.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on August 15, 2017, 09:26:25 AM
hmmm, need something to check before going into that bit of code....

I haven't had a chance to look into the problem yet myself, but this mod doesn't touch any WorkGiver code at all. It alters backstories to provide forced traits instead of disabled work tags or types, and then adds Hediffs and ThoughtWorkers to make sure that pawns who are told to do something they don't like, complain about it.  I'll need to get around to looking at the code of the mods causing problems to track down the overlap, as I'm not sure why there even *would* be overlap.  ;)

I think the mood debuffs this mod introduces are too severe....

First, as Skullywag already pointed out, the severity is configurable. But more importantly, the fact that you're complaining about what happens "after a day" suggests that you're misusing the mod. The point of this mod is *not* to turn a pawn who won't ever do a certain type of work under any circumstances into a pawn who you can just leave assigned to that type of work indefinitely without any trouble. The point is to turn a pawn who won't ever do a certain type of work under any circumstances into a pawn who can do that type of work *in emergencies*.

If you take a pawn who hates a particular type of work to the point that under vanilla rules he'd never do it at all, and leave him assigned to that type of work for more than a day, then, yeah, you *should* be seeing some potentially major mood problems.

This isn't designed as an "easy mode" mod so you can just ignore the fact that some pawns don't like certain types of work. It's designed to give you extra options when your colony's survival depends on it. But those options come with risks.

Not sure if it is related to this mod but I have 3/10 colonists with identical nicknames and backstories.

This mod has absolutely no connection to assignment of names or backstories, so your issue is either just simple, albeit odd, "luck of the draw," or a problem related to another mod in your list.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: skullywag on August 15, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Its not the workgivers its simply null ref errors when calling anything pawn backstory/skill/etc related due to the the patches in this mod (i think) so imagine i have a pawn that is technically an animal but it does jobs would any part of the code have a null ref (based on the error i posted)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on August 15, 2017, 01:41:12 PM
Ugh. OK, yeah, I really should know better than to respond after just skimming. The posted error messages are actually pretty clear.

There's a patch in the base version of PAC (which actually predates my involvement with the mod) for the Pawn_RecordsTracker method. That patch references Pawn.story.traits without first making sure that Pawn.story.traits isn't null. If your modded critters reference that method but don't have backstories, well, voila, there's the reason for the null exception. :)

The good news is, it should be a trivially easy fix on our end. I'll get in touch with RimRue and see about getting it taken care of.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: skullywag on August 15, 2017, 04:18:36 PM
Thanks thats what I was trying to say in my usual roundabout way. :)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: rambo on August 17, 2017, 06:50:33 AM
The debuff should slowly go away and not become worse
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on August 17, 2017, 06:57:24 AM
The debuff should slowly go away and not become worse

right .. when you are doing something you absolutely detest, and never wanted to do ( again ) in your live .. your mood debuff lowers over time ..

like DBurgdorf said, this is a way to get pawns to do things in emergencies they were normally forbidden to do. Not to cheese pawns into everything.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Lupin III on August 19, 2017, 02:59:44 PM
Well, I just had a pyrophobic pyromanic in a visitor group. Pyromaniacs don't ever extinguish fires anyway, but what would this guy do? Light a fire than flee in panic? Must be a hard life for him ;)
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: DonkeyBoat on November 25, 2017, 11:05:30 PM
Are you going to update to current Beta? It would be great if you did, this mod is great!
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on November 25, 2017, 11:51:52 PM
Are you going to update to current Beta? It would be great if you did, this mod is great!

I don't know if Rue plans to update this version of PAC, but my alternate "no traits" version has been available for b18 for a couple of weeks, already.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Rexstriker on November 27, 2017, 02:58:58 AM
Is this mod compatible with the prepare carefully mod?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on November 29, 2017, 05:33:43 AM
Yes
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: Rexstriker on November 29, 2017, 11:28:13 PM
Yes

Nice
Just another question though, do skills still get EX even when the pawn hates doing it? Is it possible to get something with a 20 in a skill who hates doing it?
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on November 30, 2017, 04:40:11 AM
I would think so, but I guess with the common mental breaks that will get you,
you might not get above a certain level, due to skill degredation.

I can't say for sure if you get normal experience or even lower than the 33% of a non-passion skill.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: dburgdorf on November 30, 2017, 09:24:39 AM
Neither version of PAC affects skill gain, so yes, a pawn who hates doing a job will still gain experience when forced to do it. However, as pawns (obviously) can't have passions for work they hate, skill gain will be at the slowest rate, and as SpaceDorf pointed out, any attempt to keep a pawn doing hated work for an extended period is going to cause a lot of problems, so the odds of a pawn ever getting very *good* at hated work are slim.
Title: Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!
Post by: SpaceDorf on November 30, 2017, 10:24:34 AM
But it is tempting if you get a pawn who is actually good at that hatet skill and even has fitting traits.