The game is heavily weighed down by absurd traits such as pyromaniac, chemical interest, etc. which lead to ridiculous limitations such as inabilities to do dumb labor, cook, fight, and so on. Do you know of or even HEARD of ANYONE who uncontrollably has to start fires? Who randomly needs to stuff his face with pills?
People who can pick up a 300 lbs elk after shooting it, but who can't move a medkit? People that would rather STARVE TO DEATH instead of picking berries from a bush? People who CAN'T put some meat over a fire for 5 minutes? Would there REALLY be that many physically and mentally handicapped people on a rimworld?
A few things.
Yes, there are people who uncontrollably have to start fires, and they are called pyromaniacs. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania) This is a real disorder and that's what it really does. It's one of the more accurately portrayed disorders in the game, whether you believe it or not.
Chemical Interest/Fascination are less 'I need to stuff my face with pills' and more 'I've always heard about all these drugs and all the cool things they can do, I wonder why I'm forbidden from trying them? Ah, fuck it, I'm gonna try them anyway.' They're the ones that get deep into drug culture and often, in the real world, wind up addicted to a number of different drugs. It's another impulse control disorder like pyromania.
The other restrictions you're referring to are often from backgrounds, not traits. Some of them are quite annoying because they won't take those actions even to save their lives and some of them are remarkably arbitrary in their assignment, but that's a sacrifice made in the name of gameplay. I hate colonists with dumb labor disabled as much as the next RimWorlder (especially since that seems remarkably common) but it's part of the game as Tynan designed it. Hopefully we'll get a greater variety of backgrounds that don't disable critical skills.
Quote from: GUTB on June 19, 2017, 11:29:23 AM
The game is heavily weighed down by absurd traits such as pyromaniac, chemical interest, etc. which lead to ridiculous limitations such as inabilities to do dumb labor, cook, fight, and so on. Do you know of or even HEARD of ANYONE who uncontrollably has to start fires? Who randomly needs to stuff his face with pills?
People who can pick up a 300 lbs elk after shooting it, but who can't move a medkit? People that would rather STARVE TO DEATH instead of picking berries from a bush? People who CAN'T put some meat over a fire for 5 minutes? Would there REALLY be that many physically and mentally handicapped people on a rimworld?
Pawns can put meat over a campfire. pyromaniac, well its extreme and unfun (micromanage other pawn to firefight) but chemical interest its very realistic, I meet real people with chemical interest like Rimworld (aka consume all drugs on sight 24/7).
I agree with dumb labor thing its too common.
"Would there REALLY be that many physically and mentally handicapped people on a rimworld?"
Well, on real world about 25% suffers some kind of mental illness, on a wide range of severity, but 25%
But, it seems like every 3rd or 4th pawn is a pyromaniac. Like half of them can't do dumb labor.
The majority of games end because you lose the useful pawns and are stuck with the useless ones who then go on a mental break / useless death spiral inspite of having a fully viable colony. I once got wiped out because HALF my pawns were LITERALLY incapable of putting out fires??
It would be more work to make pawns less able to do things. A logic yes/no check is easier to program. You can remove most of this idiocy by editing the "Core" mod, or by using mods that make it more sensible. Note that it will make the game easier as it is balanced about some pawns being utterly useless resource black holes.
It doesn't fix pyromaniacs or chemical interest traits, but my Pawns Are Capable mod fixes the incapabilities. I did try to balance it so some pawns are still essentially useless. ;)
Quote from: GUTB on June 19, 2017, 12:00:51 PM
But, it seems like every 3rd or 4th pawn is a pyromaniac.
It's because of the background that forces the trait on that pawn. I'm not sure if it's been acknowledged, but the random assignment of that trait needs adjusting because there is so much non-random assigning of it happening.
That and incapable of art, firefighting, dumb labour, and intellectual. :/
I always took incapable of dumb labour to mean they were too lazy or snobby to do the labour rather than they were physically incapable. That makes me feel better about the "accidents" that seem to commonly occur around these people..
Personally, I quite like the fact certain pawns can't do certain actions, or start fires randomly, or take drugs even when told not to. It all adds to the challenge of the game and makes colony selection so important. Sure one or two people with a bad trait in a colony of ten people can be carried, but all of a sudden get four pyromaniacs and you better start being careful before you accept the next one!
Quote from: The Nickman on June 19, 2017, 08:54:03 PM
Personally, I quite like the fact certain pawns can't do certain actions, or start fires randomly, or take drugs even when told not to.
It's not so much the events but the magnitude. A chemical interest guy doesn't just binge on drugs, he keeps taking drugs in a very short time span until there's a very high chance he dies from it. The addiction is the least of your worries. Pyromaniacs don't just start a few fires, they set fire to everything they see for several minutes.
The only one I really hate is chemical fascination, because it plays out more like a deliberate attempt at suicide than a drug binge. Completely at random, for no reason whatsoever, your pawn will just start taking drugs and they usually don't stop until they drop from consciousness loss, overdosing or have a heart attack. I don't mind that they just randomly smoke/snort/inject my stash, but do they have to do it with the sole purpose of killing themselves?
The only fix to be done with pyromaniacs is to reduce their spawn frequency. To have one of them in the colony should be something extemely rare, but i have gone through at least 4 playthroughs (out of 6 aprox) with this fuckers around!
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/00/72/5b/00725ba7a8888b984831deb206be22ac.jpg) | Quote from: GUTB on June 19, 2017, 11:29:23 AM
The game is heavily weighed down by [the] absurd... Fixed. ::)
It looks a like a hostile relationship between modder and for lack of a better term everything else that is not the given self doing the observing. Any subject of the witness becomes the target of animosity, the child that burned ants as a kid, the adult of whom is said some people just want to watch the world burn.
Maybe that's a developmental disorder at the scale of populations, some deformity of the competition for resources that resulted in a suicidal decay of the species.
Or maybe its just Lady Death doing her job as mistress of entropy.
|
I'm adjusting some of the work disable proportions for next update.
I always pretend that the high incidence of mental disorders like pyromania were the side effects of genetic manipulation and breeding. It is hinted at with the go juice description implying that intentional biological manipulation is less controlled in the wide universe.
You don't have to recruit or welcome every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along. If you don't like a captured pirate, cut off a leg and release him back home. If a wanderer joins, arrest and release. If you get an escape pod, always capture rather than rescue.
Quote from: Tynan on June 19, 2017, 11:51:04 PM
I'm adjusting some of the work disable proportions for next update.
That's good news; thanks for the update.
Quote from: Bozobub on June 20, 2017, 12:46:05 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 19, 2017, 11:51:04 PM
I'm adjusting some of the work disable proportions for next update.
That's good news; thanks for the update.
In alpha 18, each pawn will only be able to do 1 work type, which may or may not be something they like, and the pawn will be incapable of all other work types.
ADJUSTED!
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on June 19, 2017, 11:53:01 PM
I always pretend that the high incidence of mental disorders like pyromania were the side effects of genetic manipulation and breeding. It is hinted at with the go juice description implying that intentional biological manipulation is less controlled in the wide universe.
This is disturbingly plausible... I'm not sure
why anyone would gene-engineer humans to make more pyromaniacs, but it could be a side effect. Or mad science!
Mind you, "it could be mad science" is a pretty good catch-all explanation for, well, anything really.
Maybe instead of disabling skills all together, they could get mood penalties for doing things they don't want to do?
Quote from: jamaicancastle on June 20, 2017, 01:25:48 AM
Mind you, "it could be mad science" is a pretty good catch-all explanation for, well, anything really.
The Rimworld equivalent of the fantasy gamers' "A wizard did it"
Quote from: Limdood on June 20, 2017, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: jamaicancastle on June 20, 2017, 01:25:48 AM
Mind you, "it could be mad science" is a pretty good catch-all explanation for, well, anything really.
The Rimworld equivalent of the fantasy gamers' "A wizard did it"
Owlbear? A wizard did it.
Undead? A lich wizard did it.
Attacked by feral squirrels? Damn squirrel wizards.
Quote from: cultist on June 20, 2017, 09:48:15 AM
Owlbear? A wizard did it.
Undead? A lich wizard did it.
Attacked by feral squirrels? Damn squirrel wizards.
Squirrel wizards? Druids, good man! Always blame the druids when the
manhunter bunny swarm land pirahnas attack.
There is already an interpersonal penalty for "hard worker vs. lazy", there ought to be another for "willing to carry and clean vs. good for nothing git who thinks they're better than everybody else.".
Of course, that would actually just make things harder for us, the players, and wouldn't bother the "no dumb labor" pawns at all.
You could also think that the high amount of negative bullshit people is due to..
the local Star Empires sending all their negative bullshit people to Austr.. I mean to the Rimworld.
Quote from: 1FSTCAT on June 20, 2017, 08:29:40 AM
Maybe instead of disabling skills all together, they could get mood penalties for doing things they don't want to do?
That is a really, REALLY good idea, kindof like the opposite of how they gain Joy for certain tasks.
Sure, you can make Owlbear clean, but he's going to flip out pretty quickly if you do!
I like this a lot.
| Quote from: Shardey on June 20, 2017, 08:58:52 PM
You could also think that the high amount of negative bullshit people is due to..
the local Star Empires sending all their negative bullshit people to Austr.. I mean to the Rimworld.
The 'B' Ark (http://www.geoffwilkins.net/fragments/Adams.htm), by Douglas Adams
Quote"You mean you've got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?" he said.
"Oh yes," said the Captain, "Millions of them. Hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants, you name them. We're going to colonize another planet."
Ford wobbled very slightly. "Exciting isn't it?" said the Captain.
"What, with that lot?" said Arthur.
"Ah, now don't misunderstand me," said the Captain, "we're just one of the ships in the Ark Fleet. We're the 'B' Ark you see.
...
"And they made sure they sent you lot off first did they?" inquired Arthur.
"Oh yes," said the Captain, "well everyone said, very nicely I thought, that it was very important for morale to feel that they would be arriving on a planet where they could be sure of a good haircut and where the phones were clean."
"Oh yes," agreed Ford, "I can see that would be very important. And the other ships, er ... they followed on after you did they?"
For a moment the Captain did not answer. He twisted round in his bath and gazed backwards over the huge bulk of the ship towards the bright galactic centre. He squinted into the inconceivable distance. "Ah. Well it's funny you should say that," he said and allowed himself a slight frown at Ford Prefect, "because curiously enough we haven't heard a peep out of them since we left five years ago ... but they must be behind us somewhere."
He peered off into the distance again. Ford peered with him and gave a thoughtful frown.
...
"It's a funny thing you know," said the Captain at last, "but now that I actually come to tell the story to someone else ..." |
Quote from: 1FSTCAT on June 20, 2017, 08:29:40 AM
Maybe instead of disabling skills all together, they could get mood penalties for doing things they don't want to do?
Pawns Are Capable! (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33693.0) by RimRue replaces "incapable of" restrictions with a set of traits that provide work speed and/or mood penalties when pawns are stuck doing tasks they don't like.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on June 19, 2017, 11:53:01 PM
I always pretend that the high incidence of mental disorders like pyromania were the side effects of genetic manipulation and breeding. It is hinted at with the go juice description implying that intentional biological manipulation is less controlled in the wide universe.
That's like shooting a barn then painiting a bullseye around the largest cluster of hits.
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 21, 2017, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: 1FSTCAT on June 20, 2017, 08:29:40 AM
Maybe instead of disabling skills all together, they could get mood penalties for doing things they don't want to do?
Pawns Are Capable! (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33693.0) by RimRue replaces "incapable of" restrictions with a set of traits that provide work speed and/or mood penalties when pawns are stuck doing tasks they don't like.
I think one of the easiest ways to make a soft penalty is to make an opposite of the Interest/Passion for skills. Disinterested/Hating a task gives a mood malus and penalty to learning, the exact opposite of a passionate pawn.
Quote from: wimpb on June 22, 2017, 02:58:06 AM
Quote from: dburgdorf on June 21, 2017, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: 1FSTCAT on June 20, 2017, 08:29:40 AM
Maybe instead of disabling skills all together, they could get mood penalties for doing things they don't want to do?
Pawns Are Capable! (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33693.0) by RimRue replaces "incapable of" restrictions with a set of traits that provide work speed and/or mood penalties when pawns are stuck doing tasks they don't like.
I think one of the easiest ways to make a soft penalty is to make an opposite of the Interest/Passion for skills. Disinterested/Hating a task gives a mood malus and penalty to learning, the exact opposite of a passionate pawn.
Isn't it already only 33% learning for anyone without passion? I've always interpreted this as disinterest. A malus value to learning would make it almost impossible to improve at all.
Quote from: Tynan on June 19, 2017, 11:51:04 PM
I'm adjusting some of the work disable proportions for next update.
Thanks. The concept was never the problem, the amount of them was.
Pawns are humans? from a distant future..you cant apply current values and motivations to them. These restrictions enhance the story and you are free to completely remove certain traits with the scenario editor. I usually increase the the possibility of a pyro because forest fires are cool.
I agree the proportions were the issue. Instead of 25% of people being unable to lift a stick IRL it's more like 10%
And these people even when they hate it will do it to save their lives 99.9% of the time.
Maybe a new stat buff could come into play if starving or bleeding moderate + where a pawn is now unrestricted in all regards.