It's been suggested that we move the forums to XenForo (http://xenforo.com/) and off of SMF.
I'm open to the idea. The software does seem a bit more modern, and it has features that allow content management. For example, this is how the StarBound forums do their mod listing (http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/).
So a few things:
1. What do you guys think? Good idea?
2. Can anyone help or offer advice on how to move over properly? The simplest thing seems to be to install XenForo alongside SMF, freeze these forums, and let discussions migrate over. However, it would be great if we could import some of the content too. I just don't know how that's possible.
I think the Starbound forums are absolutely horrendous. I think if RimWorld forums looked like starbounds from the start, I would never of joined it.
Especially their mod listing.
I do like our forum atm better.... The ability to sort however is nice... I can't decide... :(
I very much like the fresh take on forums that discourse is offering.
http://www.discourse.org/
Two forums that are using it:
http://discourse.stonehearth.net/
and
http://forum.kingdomcomerpg.com/
Quote from: Cala13er on May 02, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
I think the Starbound forums are absolutely horrendous. I think if RimWorld forums looked like starbounds from the start, I would never of joined it.
Especially their mod listing.
Can you explain why the XenForo system is so bad? I absolutely love it. I get notifications when a mod is updated, I don't have to check each day to see if a mod was updated or not. I get friendly little notifications in the top corner for everything I subscribe to notifications for.
Private message chats are very easy, and can include multiple people.
The system is smooth and efficient with handling large numbers of people.
The resource system is especially my favorite, as I mentioned before how it tells you when a user updates. It also allows you to rate mods, each time it's updated even so you can rate each update. You can review the mod, and discuss the mod right in the mod page. One of my mods as an example. (http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/music-station.871/)
So tell me, where is the system "horrendous" at? Aside from the cost of it.
What is horrendous, is SMF 2.0's new PM system which is absolutely terrible. All your messages are displayed on the same screen, you can't individually open a single PM to read it. Not like it used to be. I use SMF myself on my own site, but I absolutely love XenForo's system much better. Even though SMF is easier to mod, it's losing out to newer age forums and no one is really making mods for it anymore and they aren't making it any better. It's all just security updates really.
Quote from: Pirx Danford on May 02, 2014, 05:08:29 PM
I very much like the fresh take on forums that discourse is offering.
http://www.discourse.org/
Well, that certainly is a minimalistic forum. :P It doesn't offer much in the way of making things easier for a modding community. You still gotta edit your own post every day and try to keep up with your change logs and everything, deleting older versions of your mod all the time. With XenForo, you can leave older versions of your mod there for people who want to download a previous version and you don't even need to do anything to do that.
For those wondering, I am the one who suggested it. I would like to see the forum upgraded to a nicer system, but I also would like the move to be as smooth as possible (which is hard considering how completely different both forums are).
I also want Tynan to make sure he likes the system before hand because again, it is $140 for the forum software alone, +$60 to get the resource manager. Life time licenses and such though.
From what I saw, people make themes for it, but each theme costs between $30-$40 too which is odd so you could make your own if you knew how. There is a built in editor to help with this.
For those interested, I set up this demo; http://7eb11e3d3b9a0d4f.demo-xenforo.com/130/index.php (Demo expires May 4th)
You can change how the SMF PMs work so they go on individual pages.
The money isn't a big issue; $200 is a small business expense.
im kinda used to XenForo, so for me its a good idea, it has alot of good features, but please don't do what starbound did with the modding community, its horrible. but other then that it should be good, its like upgrading from windows xp to windows 7, people didn't like it first but they git used to, so... yeah sure why not?
What did they do with the modding community, exactly?
This
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/
it looks like crap and shouldn't even exist,
i would like to keep my mods in my own proper thread,and not with this bullcrap thank you very much. (god the reasons why i left the starbound forums)
Although I like XenForo for its features and CMS, the layout is as bland as nutrient paste, especially when you browse more than one XenForo-powered website, like Bukkit and Spigotcraft. The only real difference are the colors, and that's about it.
I'd just prefer a seamless migration to vBulletin. It has a lot of admin plugins, including antispam and blogs and such, and from what I've heard, there are a great number of things that you can customize. Or you can move to phpBB, but it may not have a lot of features. (The Build and Shoot (http://www.buildandshoot.com/index.php) community has used phpBB since its conception, and it grew to about 32,000 by the end of 2013. Today, it's almost doubled to 61,000.)
I like the demo :) I check this on my phone a lot and it looks nice on my phone so I am cool with the change.
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 02, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
This
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/
it looks like crap and shouldn't even exist,
i would like to keep my mods in my own proper thread,and not with this bullcrap thank you very much. (god the reasons why i left the starbound forums)
You do realize, threads still exist. Right? I love the resources system. Much more organized than random threads in a board. Displays better information and all the other reasons I listed before.
Take for example, my first mod:
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/music-station.871/ - is the mod info page where you can download, rate, review, and there are buttons to see previous versions of the mod and discuss it.
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/music-station.62522/ is the discussion link, it takes you to a THREAD. A forum topic. Where you can discuss the mod like normal.
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?forums/musical-instruments.124/ - this is the forum where my mod was posted automatically when I had uploaded it to the resource manager.
If you want to discuss mods in a thread like post manner, just click discussion on each mod. I still can't see how that whole system is bad, you'll have to explain that one to me. As a modder, I found this system very easy for me and made it much nicer uploading my mods and updating my mods. It also allows me to leave an older version of my mod up in case someone has an issue with a newer version, they can simply go back to a different version.
Quote from: Vas on May 03, 2014, 06:34:22 AM
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 02, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
This
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/
it looks like crap and shouldn't even exist,
i would like to keep my mods in my own proper thread,and not with this bullcrap thank you very much. (god the reasons why i left the starbound forums)
You do realize, threads still exist. Right? I love the resources system. Much more organized than random threads in a board. Displays better information and all the other reasons I listed before.
Take for example, my first mod:
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/music-station.871/ - is the mod info page where you can download, rate, review, and there are buttons to see previous versions of the mod and discuss it.
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/music-station.62522/ is the discussion link, it takes you to a THREAD. A forum topic. Where you can discuss the mod like normal.
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?forums/musical-instruments.124/ - this is the forum where my mod was posted automatically when I had uploaded it to the resource manager.
If you want to discuss mods in a thread like post manner, just click discussion on each mod. I still can't see how that whole system is bad, you'll have to explain that one to me. As a modder, I found this system very easy for me and made it much nicer uploading my mods and updating my mods. It also allows me to leave an older version of my mod up in case someone has an issue with a newer version, they can simply go back to a different version.
God...
Im about to puke.
I mean no disrespect Vas,
But i strongly Dislike the way they handle mods, its freaking confusing!
and Ugly!
Quote from: Tynan on May 02, 2014, 08:59:48 PM
The money isn't a big issue; $200 is a small business expense.
Please... no ads! :'(
I like SMF :)
And for me having two forums alongside (one with old stuff and one for new stuff) is worst idea ever. It might be a killer for community.
(http://www.dealspwn.com/writer/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/metal-gear-solid-peace-walker_dealspwn.jpg)
XenForo works well. I'm moderator for Uber Entertainment (https://forums.uberent.com/) and we switched from phpBB to XenForo. Thank Ceiling Cat!
XenForo seems to be superior to SMF from my experience. The mods page looks useful imo.
Importing some of the content should be possible. You would have to communicate with the people from XenForo and SMF and see what they can do for you, after all from their side of things all we are writing is just data. And data is transferable.
But Tynan, besides us discussing this forum style change. What are your reasons for wanting this change? I am asking because most likely most of us are temporary, but you are forever bound to Rimworld.
I don't think we should move. But then again, my opinion is probably invalid as I am allergic to both change and effort.
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 03, 2014, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: Vas on May 03, 2014, 06:34:22 AM
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 02, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
This
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/
it looks like crap and shouldn't even exist,
i would like to keep my mods in my own proper thread,and not with this bullcrap thank you very much. (god the reasons why i left the starbound forums)
You do realize, threads still exist. Right? I love the resources system. Much more organized than random threads in a board. Displays better information and all the other reasons I listed before.
Take for example, my first mod:
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/music-station.871/ - is the mod info page where you can download, rate, review, and there are buttons to see previous versions of the mod and discuss it.
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/music-station.62522/ is the discussion link, it takes you to a THREAD. A forum topic. Where you can discuss the mod like normal.
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?forums/musical-instruments.124/ - this is the forum where my mod was posted automatically when I had uploaded it to the resource manager.
If you want to discuss mods in a thread like post manner, just click discussion on each mod. I still can't see how that whole system is bad, you'll have to explain that one to me. As a modder, I found this system very easy for me and made it much nicer uploading my mods and updating my mods. It also allows me to leave an older version of my mod up in case someone has an issue with a newer version, they can simply go back to a different version.
God...
Im about to puke.
I mean no disrespect Vas,
But i strongly Dislike the way they handle mods, its freaking confusing!
and Ugly!
So, uh. Where exactly is it confusing again? What can't you figure out how to do? My first time ever using XenForo, I figured out how to do almost everything in the first hour. Then found some new things the next day. My first time using the admin panel of XenForo, I figured out almost immediately how to do everything by clicking every button to see where each went. I don't understand why you're so heavily against it, honestly if it was as bad as you are making it out to be, StarBound wouldn't be so very very successful right now with a HUGE mod database and no one complaining about it. I think they still lack a few features but it's better than a post which you have to update and then post somewhere 30 pages down the line "Oh, I updated and added blah blah and blah" then go edit your topic page again to add a new list of what you updated, when you updated, and people have to hope you have the old version available for download, etc etc. I wish people would be uploading their mods to the forum rather than ad filled websites where you gotta wait 30 seconds while they show you some ads then let you download. Of course I don't see ads, I see big blank spots with a wait timer.
From a moderators perspective I really like the spam cleaning features of XenForo btw. Uber Entertainment had a F2P title which forces you into an 'open door' policy and some spambots always get through. Even with standard tools XenForo makes de-spamming a forum a breeze.
The only real benefit I can see for moving to whatever software Starbound uses is the modding part of their forum. The only useful thing I see there is being able to search for mods based on a category.
All the other points Vas keeps making regarding mods seem irrelevant to me, as they can be achieved here if the modder is happy to spend a few minutes when posting a new update to their mod.
Overall though, I don't mind moving. As long as I can continue to post my mods and interact with the RimWorld community I'll be happy. :)
Quote from: Vas on May 03, 2014, 06:02:22 PM
So, uh. Where exactly is it confusing again? What can't you figure out how to do? My first time ever using XenForo, I figured out how to do almost everything in the first hour. Then found some new things the next day. My first time using the admin panel of XenForo, I figured out almost immediately how to do everything by clicking every button to see where each went. I don't understand why you're so heavily against it, honestly if it was as bad as you are making it out to be, StarBound wouldn't be so very very successful right now with a HUGE mod database and no one complaining about it. I think they still lack a few features but it's better than a post which you have to update and then post somewhere 30 pages down the line "Oh, I updated and added blah blah and blah" then go edit your topic page again to add a new list of what you updated, when you updated, and people have to hope you have the old version available for download, etc etc. I wish people would be uploading their mods to the forum rather than ad filled websites where you gotta wait 30 seconds while they show you some ads then let you download. Of course I don't see ads, I see big blank spots with a wait timer.
Its just my Preference and Opinion Vas.
In my opinion it looks ugly and confusing, I am sure i'm not the only one who thinks this.
I hope people remember "If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it". These forums seem to work well enough, so why would the change be required? Also remember that if you transition from one forum to another without importing all the content here, you will also "reboot" the community (or at least I see that as a potential danger).
Quote from: CremionisD on May 04, 2014, 04:20:49 AM
I hope people remember "If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it". These forums seem to work well enough, so why would the change be required? Also remember that if you transition from one forum to another without importing all the content here, you will also "reboot" the community (or at least I see that as a potential danger).
Well, if you mean you delete all inactive users who don't care to ever visit the forums again? Sure. But anyone who is a member of the community will stay a member of the community.
Quote from: Vas on May 04, 2014, 06:18:57 AM
Quote from: CremionisD on May 04, 2014, 04:20:49 AM
I hope people remember "If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it". These forums seem to work well enough, so why would the change be required? Also remember that if you transition from one forum to another without importing all the content here, you will also "reboot" the community (or at least I see that as a potential danger).
Well, if you mean you delete all inactive users who don't care to ever visit the forums again? Sure. But anyone who is a member of the community will stay a member of the community.
I think he was more referring to the vast collection of old topics and messages that would get lost.
Honestly, if the new forum had better functionality it would probably be a good move over the long term scope of rimworld. That said, if it meant losing all of the existing content? I'm not sure. There are a lot of old threads that still get used, and a whole heap of information (particularly regarding modding) that could be lost.
I agree with World of Illusion.
All this information,threads,topics,messages will be lost.
Its like having a community Reboot, well it really is a community Reboot.
But if some how you can move all this Data to the new forum, so why not?
i mean if its good for the community then why not?
BUT losing all this data is not worth it just to change to a new forum.
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 04, 2014, 07:35:45 AM
I agree with World of Illusion.
All this information,threads,topics,messages will be lost.
Its like having a community Reboot, well it really is a community Reboot.
But if some how you can move all this Data to the new forum, so why not?
i mean if its good for the community then why not?
BUT losing all this data is not worth it just to change to a new forum.
I'd almost certainly leave these forums up in a frozen state. We could recreate the active threads on the XF side with links to their old versions here and pretty much just continue where we left off. I hope.
Anyway, it seems this isn't any kind of slam-dunk. Just because I have a lot of other stuff to do, I won't be pursuing a changeover right now. However, it may happen eventually.
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2014, 12:31:58 PM
Just because I have a lot of other stuff to do, I won't be pursuing a changeover right now. However, it may happen eventually.
IMHO you should spend your time on working on the game code instead of working on some forum changeover that may or may not be a good idea to begin with.
How about this? It works brilliantly at The Indie Stone forums.
http://www.invisionpower.com/apps/board/
http://theindiestone.com/forums/
Nowhere near an expert on the matter, Rathlord might know more, he is registered on these forums as well if I remember correctly.
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 04, 2014, 07:35:45 AM
I agree with World of Illusion.
All this information,threads,topics,messages will be lost.
Its like having a community Reboot, well it really is a community Reboot.
Well, you think it's better to "reboot" the community now while we have this amount of active people rather than later when we have 10x more? :P
Quote from: Tynan on May 04, 2014, 12:31:58 PM
Quote from: Blackjack1000K on May 04, 2014, 07:35:45 AM
I agree with World of Illusion.
All this information,threads,topics,messages will be lost.
Its like having a community Reboot, well it really is a community Reboot.
But if some how you can move all this Data to the new forum, so why not?
i mean if its good for the community then why not?
BUT losing all this data is not worth it just to change to a new forum.
I'd almost certainly leave these forums up in a frozen state. We could recreate the active threads on the XF side with links to their old versions here and pretty much just continue where we left off. I hope.
I'd be willing to help transfer stuff over as well. I remember editing the database of my SMF forum in order to change who owned a post once, I'd probably need to go try that again to see if I can do it flawlessly. If so, it's likely the very same easy thing to do on the XF Database. So if I reposted all topics and all posts, I could basically just change the ID of the poster in the database to give it to the proper person. Assuming the person is registered of course.
As I've heard though, you could just convert SMF to PHPBB then to XF, and you'd only need to fix a few small things (Which I can also help with) and at worst, you'd just need to send a mass email to everyone to reset their passwords the next time they try to log in. Since the 2 forums have completely different encryptions for password storage.
OH, and I just remembered another thing I absolutely loved about the Starbound forum. Though I'm not exactly sure how they did it. http://playstarbound.com/suggestions/
Each suggestion is a forum topic in a certain board, and automatically appears here on the suggestion area where you can vote on it with a simple click, or click the title of the suggestion to go to the topic to discuss it. I can ask them how they did this area, if you like.
Erm, why not just transfer the forum with all members, topics and stuff to XenForo? I'm honestly surprised that this is not considered the default option. There are usually conversion tools in the forum software or available as plugins. There are also people offering to convert your forum for you for under $100. I don't know how trustworthy those offers are.
Ty, I would suggest you simply make a thread in the support section of XenForo and see what floats to the top. They want to sell their product and that's a good test to see if their support is good or not.
Or you set up a test server and if you can import the database with a tool/plugin. If not you might be able to convert through a free 3rd party forum software like phpBB. Not gonna lie, there is a good chance some stuff will break. Most likely old links, maybe attachments...
Keeping a read only backup up for a while is a great idea.
Im also wiling to help transfer some data, and information.
With conversion tools, you tend to have a lot of things break. The forum needs a double convert from SMF to PHPBB and then to XF. I researched and some people lost permissions when they did this, and in all cases, everyone lost their passwords. BUT, someone did make a MySQL thing that you run that repairs the password part of your database to work with XF so maybe nothing will need to be lost at all. But in the event that stuff does break, I could try to help fix it. I'm not experienced with XF forums yet but I am with SMF and might be able to find where stuff broke at. :P
We'd have to keep the new XF in read only mode till after we worked out all the bugs too.
I'd just like to be able to embed youtube videos in my main page, and be able to review messages I have sent previously. Other than that I'm quite happy with this forum :P Though I'll roll with any changes which get made.
I would love like buttons, but im happy here, im more concerned Ill loose my screen name :-\
Quote from: jamieg on May 05, 2014, 09:48:22 AM
I would love like buttons, but im happy here, im more concerned Ill loose my screen name :-\
yeah same..... lol
Edit: Im also concerned that i wouldn't be able to use gif avatars... :(
Quote from: Tynan on May 02, 2014, 04:39:52 PM
It's been suggested that we move the forums to XenForo (http://xenforo.com/) and off of SMF.
I'm open to the idea. The software does seem a bit more modern, and it has features that allow content management. For example, this is how the StarBound forums do their mod listing (http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?resources/).
So a few things:
1. What do you guys think? Good idea?
2. Can anyone help or offer advice on how to move over properly? The simplest thing seems to be to install XenForo alongside SMF, freeze these forums, and let discussions migrate over. However, it would be great if we could import some of the content too. I just don't know how that's possible.
Oh christ, I'm going to fuck up this forum transition if it happens, I am god awful at using technology..
Well Yarkista,
you have managed to get this far and post on this forum. That took a lot of technological skills already, compared to anyone from a hundred years ago. :) Surely you can manage a transition IF it happens.
Quote from: Geeves on May 05, 2014, 01:04:48 PM
Well Yarkista,
you have managed to get this far and post on this forum. That took a lot of technological skills already, compared to anyone from a hundred years ago. :) Surely you can manage a transition IF it happens.
(http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/405iFBA3667CF8814905/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1)
Quote from: Geeves on May 05, 2014, 01:04:48 PM
That took a lot of technological skills already, compared to anyone from a hundred years ago. :) Surely you can manage a transition IF it happens.
So are you saying that anyone in this forum can manage a forum transition IF it happens? :o
I am saying that if anyone can get used to posting here, they can get used to posting anywhere.
Quote from: Yarkista on May 05, 2014, 11:40:00 AM
Oh christ, I'm going to fuck up this forum transition if it happens, I am god awful at using technology..
You're still around after all this time Yarkista? ;) You should be fine, Just... I dunno make sure you have a backup?
or three...Edit :
#1 Requested feature on the forums "A God damn Like button"
As for those concerned with losing their screen name? It's very unlikely. If the forums were rebooted and everyone needed to re-reg, you can just make your name again. I bet if we moved, the database would be converted. We'd at least attempt a conversion before doing a reboot. That's just my assumption though, right Tynan? :P
Please, please, PLEASE, pretty please, don't make the futur forums font white on black : it KILLS my eyes !
Quote from: Ermantis on May 07, 2014, 08:16:31 AM
Please, please, PLEASE, pretty please, don't make the futur forums font white on black : it KILLS my eyes !
what do u mean but like it is now it's fine and nice and pretty
Quote from: Ermantis on May 07, 2014, 08:16:31 AM
Please, please, PLEASE, pretty please, don't make the futur forums font white on black : it KILLS my eyes !
Personally, I find that White background on Black text kills my eyes more then Black background on White text. But that's my life.
I'm neutral on the forums (I like this more than most), but I would love to have a bugtracker implemented for suggestions. Arcen games does a good one: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
It would make it easier for users to break suggestions into individual points and then to vote (limiting users to a single vote, rather than trying to judge by # of comments in a thread.) Tynan, I think it'd give you a better sense of what is drawing the most interest...