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RimWorld => Bugs => Topic started by: DarkAleks on July 24, 2017, 12:16:33 PM

Title: Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits' effect is clamped to a small effect
Post by: DarkAleks on July 24, 2017, 12:16:33 PM
Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease since A15. They should have 9% and 18%. I belive they got broken when "Extreme Break" was introduced. 5% chance extreme break can only be decreased to 1% (hence 4% decrease) and game uses this value instead of 9% and 18%.
Title: Re: [A17b] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease. Postheal scars
Post by: ruddthree on July 24, 2017, 05:37:23 PM
A pawn's mental break threshold can never, and has never be able to reach 0%, despite the traits yielding a number below 0%.
Title: Re: [A17b] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease. Postheal scars
Post by: DarkAleks on July 24, 2017, 05:51:58 PM
A pawn's mental break threshold can never, and has never be able to reach 0%, despite the traits yielding a number below 0%.

I know, but minor break threshold normally is 35% and major break threshold is 20%. Both Iron-Willed and Steadfast decrease them to 31% (minor) and 16% (major).
But it should be for Steadfast: 26% (minor) and 11% (major). For Iron-Willed: 17% (minor) and 2% (major). As it was before A15.
Title: Re: [A17b] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease. Postheal scars
Post by: ison on September 01, 2017, 10:37:20 AM
It's because MentalBreakThreshold defines the extreme mental break threshold and can't be lower than 1%. I'll leave this for Tynan to decide.
Title: Re: [A17b] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease. Postheal scars
Post by: ison on September 11, 2017, 06:21:27 AM
bump
Title: Re: [A17b] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease. Postheal scars
Post by: ison on September 26, 2017, 08:51:08 AM
bump
Title: Re: [A17b] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease. Postheal scars
Post by: DarkAleks on November 04, 2017, 12:32:27 AM
Steadfast and Iron-willed are still bugged in A18. Please fix.

Description says, it decreases mental break threshold by -9% and -18%.
On person without traits mental break thresholds are: 5%, 20%, 35%.
On person with trait (Steadfast or Iron-willed) mental break thresholds are: 1%, 16%, 31%. (!!!)
But it should be:
On person with Steadfast: 1%, 11%, 26%.
On person with Iron-willed: 1%, 2%, 17%.
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.1704] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: DarkAleks on November 09, 2017, 04:33:06 AM
bump
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.1704] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: XeoNovaDan on November 09, 2017, 06:47:22 AM
Steadfast and Iron-willed (especially the latter) only see a lot of use when in place with other traits that increase mental break threshold, such as Too Smart and Neurotic.
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.1704] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: DarkAleks on November 09, 2017, 09:50:42 PM
Steadfast and Iron-willed (especially the latter) only see a lot of use when in place with other traits that increase mental break threshold, such as Too Smart and Neurotic.
On normal difficulty may be. But early in the game on extreme difficulty my pawns mood rarely go over 20-30. Mid-game when some disaster strikes or something bad happen during the raid (husband died, drugs destroyed, etc.), mood going under 30 again. Withdrawal, resisting psychic drones, pain from new scars on hunter (who rarely go to town and can break when hunting too much), there are alot of uses for these traits.

Anyway, they worked properly before, now they are bugged. It shouldn't be too hard to fix them, isn't it?
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.1704] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: XeoNovaDan on November 10, 2017, 04:29:38 AM
Fair enough. However, this game shouldn't be balanced around top difficulty, since the lower down difficulty levels (e.g. intense and rough) will be trivialised.
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.1704] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: DarkAleks on November 10, 2017, 05:47:02 AM
Fair enough. However, this game shouldn't be balanced around top difficulty, since the lower down difficulty levels (e.g. intense and rough) will be trivialised.
There are similair traits: Optimist and Sanguine. They give mood bonus which is a bit better than decreasing mental break threshold, but they give a little less in terms of numbers. Which is alright and balanced, if Steadfast and Iron-Willed were not broken. But right now SF and IW give only 4%, which is wrong, doesn't follow description, unbalanced and should be fixed.
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.1704] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: DarkAleks on November 20, 2017, 03:37:13 PM
bump

I think it'd enough to make minor break threshold as "base" threshold, so all 3 threasholds can freely go up and down (but no lower than 1%). Right now extreme break threshold is "base", and it created this problem. I can be wrong.
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.x, 1.01954] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: DarkAleks on July 05, 2018, 10:01:40 AM
Just checked, still not fixed in 1.0. Steadfast tooltip: "Decrease mental break threshold -9%" and pawn has 31% mental break threshold, pawn without trait has 35%. Same for Iron-Willed, 31% despite tooltip saying -18%.
Title: Re: [A17b, 0.18.x, 1.01954] Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have only 4% decrease.
Post by: DarkAleks on July 14, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
I just bump it one time in hope it won't get ignored.
Title: Re: Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have text out of sync with actual effect
Post by: Tynan on September 19, 2018, 04:12:13 AM
Nothing gets ignored, just deferred :)

I adjusted the thread title to reflect the bug that should be fixed.
Title: Re: Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits have text out of sync with actual effect
Post by: Tynan on September 21, 2018, 09:39:18 PM
I believe the actual correct approach is in DarkAleks' post: "make minor break threshold as "base" threshold, so all 3 threasholds can freely go up and down (but no lower than 1%). Right now extreme break threshold is "base", and it created this problem."

After that what I'd do is make the major and extreme break thresholds a fraction of the minor break threshold (instead of them being an offset), so the middle one doesn't vanish.

So
--If minor break threshold is 60, major becomes 40 and extreme becomes 20.
--If minor threshold is 10, major becomes 6.6 and extreme becomes 3.3.
Title: Re: Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits' effect is clamped to a small effect
Post by: bbqftw on October 15, 2018, 09:49:42 PM
its cool this finally got slated for attention
Title: Re: Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits' effect is clamped to a small effect
Post by: DarkAleks on November 09, 2018, 02:42:42 AM
Nice. I like the idea of fraction. It really make sence. Also "Volatile" persons won't be that dangerous.
Title: Re: Steadfast and Iron-Willed traits' effect is clamped to a small effect
Post by: Kenneth on November 29, 2018, 06:49:43 PM
Fixed, thanks for reporting ;)