Based on Tynan's latest tweet, it looks like it's only small stuff again...
QuoteAlpha 18 is coming along! Working on new world quests, new mortar shells, spreading crop blights, new incidents/weather, river visuals, etc
Are there any major features (Trade, Religions, animal riding, customizing the world, etc.) coming this time?
If not, any chance of something big for A19?
New incidents and expanding on world events sound pretty good to me. Hell, I'd be happy with just the blight event rework.
Maybe if you bug him enough something magical will happen, like Z levels or network multiplayer. (don't actually bug him)
IMO incidents/weather are the heart of the game, adding more of these creates depth which is always good!
PS I'd love to see more UI/QoL improvements tho
Maybe its just me but I would settle for stable gameplay after about 2 years in game time. It's a great game, I have spent like 250 hours on it, it gets annoying however when your colony effectively becomes unplayable because it will only run smooth on speed one, and even then it's still laggy. Seems to most often be an issue with visiting factions or caravans, or maybe it's my mods. Either way my rig is pretty good, 7700k with 1080ti, and I don't see how it is this CPU intensive, it just doesn't seem optimised after a certain point.
Even that mod that supposedly fixes and frees up resources doesn't work for me, perhaps I am in the minority for this issue, who knows.
I should point out this happens on even the small maps with all three storytellers on difficulties from rough to extreme, but i usually play on the 325x325, and yes the point of the game is to build and ship and get off planet, but I would much rather build a fortress somewhere.
So yeh, if the point of major updates is to add new functionality, why not make it more stable first?
Gotta agree about the stability of the game. I've barely played it at all in this version, because 2 years into the game, it becomes unplayable. Optimisation should really be the key focus for the next alpha.
Or it should be hurry to leave the planet within 2 years ! That is still the current goal :-)
and there you see if he decided to add something else huge into the game (yea know like what we got in the last update) heed have to spend more of his time making that meaningful in game along side doing the same for the current world mechanic.
which while I like the idea of it the actuality is a bit well weak at the moment when it gets worked im sure it'll be awesome but that's still going to take up his time.
I do think a big update with nothing but optimisation in it would be pretty sweet though cant argue with that.
note I'm not saying I think tynnan should refrain from putting any big huge mechanical or system based things ever again its just Id like to be able to praise the current big huge system that's been added before he does.
Ummm - we haven't had anything huge since A16 or A15 I think....
If he finds a way that allows a large colony or even 2 to run smoothly, I'd take that over any new feature creep that anyone can think of.
Well technically rimworld is an alpha. Optimizing during an alpha is kinda shooting yourself in the foot in the long run.
Why do a job 50 times when you can do it during the beta after your feature set is somewhat locked?
Honestly that's what it boils down to.. do you want time spent on optimizing an unfinished game or do you want more features? Can't really have both. Rimworld doesn't have a 200 man dev team.
If any dev reads this... can you tell if this and the following alphas are going to break save files? I would like to begin a super long lasting colony but if i actually get far and its save becomes unusable i will kill myself lol
Not a dev, but on the Steam version, you can play old patches by opting into the "betas" that are just out-of-date copies of Rimworld. At the moment, you can go all the way back to Alpha 14.
Just right-click the game in your library, hit "properties," click on "betas," and the dropdown list is right there.
Quote from: jchavezriva on August 13, 2017, 09:40:27 PM
If any dev reads this... can you tell if this and the following alphas are going to break save files?
Every new Alpha* will break save games from a previous version of the game. But as Dargaron says, if you playing the game on Steam then once A18 comes out you will be able to access A17b from the "betas" menu (in order to continue your current game). Although if you are using mods you might want to move them offline** to avoid them breaking your save when the mods get updated for A18. And if you are using the DRM-free version then just keep the A17b game files and/or install file, and you can play A17b and whatever associated saves as much as you like.
* An Alpha is defined as new when the number changes. ie. A16, A17, A18. If an Alpha gets patched (eg. A17b) then that's just a patch rather than a new Alpha, and usually won't break save games (or at least Tynan doesn't like releasing patches that break save games).
** Details on how to move Steam Workshop mods offline can be found here: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=29440.0
I'm willing to bet medicine ranks during treatment (as opposed to during surgery) will be fixed, if nothing else, as well as pathing (because Tynan has mentioned both, at least in passing). Those, alone, would be plenty good; anything else is gravy, imo.
We've seen a *lot* of new mechanisms, lately (caravans, drop pod delivery/invasions by the player, multiple colonies, etc.); I think we're way overdue for a good housecleaning, optimization, and bug-squishing interlude.
New world quest and new incidents/weathers are already good enough for me.
There must be something specific to different PCs or mods because I'm running on a old i7 with not a particularly new graphics card and never have any issues with performance or stability, large maps, multiple colonies, large colonies - all just work. Don't tend to use many mods at all.
Pretty much any graphics that isn't outdated integrated crap will suffice; even newer integrated graphics will work fine. RimWorld is CPU-bound, not GPU-bound. And i7s aren't particularly "old", as processors go, nor are they weak. Try running RimWorld on a Pentium D (pre-Core2Duo dual-core) with integrated graphics, sometime, as an easy example, or on an Atom ^^'.
Tl;dr; Yes, of course different PCs certainly can make a difference. And any mod that isn't a simple reskin is likely to, as well, since it will inevitably add processing time to each game "tick".
Quote from: Bozobub on August 14, 2017, 02:00:18 PM
I'm willing to bet medicine ranks during treatment (as opposed to during surgery) will be fixed, if nothing else, as well as pathing (because Tynan has mentioned both, at least in passing). Those, alone, would be plenty good; anything else is gravy, imo.
We've seen a *lot* of new mechanisms, lately (caravans, drop pod delivery/invasions by the player, multiple colonies, etc.); I think we're way overdue for a good housecleaning, optimization, and bug-squishing interlude.
Yes please this would be awesome. Why build nice quick paths when they will walk through the flower bed.
Quote from: Bozobub on August 14, 2017, 02:00:18 PM
We've seen a *lot* of new mechanisms, lately (caravans, drop pod delivery/invasions by the player, multiple colonies, etc.); I think we're way overdue for a good housecleaning, optimization, and bug-squishing interlude.
What?! The last TWO major versions (A16 and A17) were both primarily bug fixes (A16 did add some stuff though) and based on Tynan's post A18 is looking to be as well - hence the point of this thread...asking if we are getting anything besides more small additions and bug fixes....
We've had too much interim time for fixes..... time for new big stuff before we get to Beta and have to start worrying about balance.
Are you high? Think about the fact that caravans, multiple colonies, and the actual spherical globe came in A16; put down the pipe and smack yourself awake. Medicine also worked properly in A15 and now does not, as an easy example of why your statement makes zero sense.
Quote from: Bozobub on August 16, 2017, 07:24:22 PM
Are you high?
Yes
Quote from: Bozobub on August 16, 2017, 07:24:22 PM
Think about the fact that caravans, multiple colonies, and the actual spherical globe came in A16
As I said, no BIG features. The spherical globe is OK and all but nothing huge imho. Caravans and multiple colonies are both small features at best. In fact, Caravans actually take away from the game in their current state. Hoping animal riding will fix that.
Hence, YOU also want housecleaning, balancing, and bugfixes, as well =).
Adding a zillion new features every patch may sound like a great idea, but do we really need something as badly-written as Windows, itself, which regularly does exactly the same thing (often adding many new features w/o fixing long-standing bugs/optimizing much at all)? Even the largest software developers can't make THAT work, and no one ever really has.
Additionally, adding too many things at once makes game balance extremely difficult, especially in a game that depends largely on emergent behavior from the interaction of many complex systems, like RimWorld does.
To be fair in alphas you don't usually give a crap about balance and performance/stability is only really needed to a point. As long as you can see where to polish after the feature push and don't dig yourself to deep a hole it's usually BETTER to spend minimal time on these things.
Think about it.. How many games are out there with shit feature sets yet they run great on a potato or have perfect balance among their 5 total features. Even if you consider "perfect" balance games like the original starcraft these titles did not start out as such. An experienced dev team coding a familiar archtype of game can eyeball balance pretty well while rolling out new features but it's by no means a focus until all the features are done. Features are your lifeblood. They are the sum total of why people boot up your software and keep booting it up time and time again. This is the fundamental reason why ludeon and bethesda games are always seen as "good games" and are played for years(sometimes decades) past release. The open mod nature highlights why features are king. Endless feature sets mean endless replayability. The catch is the BASE GAME must contain a wide enough feature set to build off of or the whole thing comes to a crashing halt.
Features are life.. especially whole new branches. The twitter post about incidences is right on point for properly expanding what rimworld needs at the moment. A wider incidence pool equates to more modability foundation and more replayability as a result.
Sorry, no, I can't agree at all. It's a mathematical certainty that your strategy, in fact, WILL eventually backfire :P. Compounding error every generation is a potential logarithmic increase in the complexity of any problems over time, you know.
Adding broken systems to broken systems is silly and counterproductive at best. And especially in a system that depends on emergent behavior, as well as scripted (storyteller) events, the longer you wait to fix any given problem, the larger the repercussions will be in the overall system. In other words, the perceived change to players will be more jarring, the longer you wait to fix known issues.
Easy example: Medicine quality, currently, is completely broken for treatment (although not surgery itself); herbal medicine is as good as glitterworld medicine at the moment. Don't you think that fixing this bug *just might* significantly change how players play the game, when fixed? Now, imagine if Tynan went on to include one of the big bionics expansion mods in "vanilla", without fixing medicine, a very basic bug. Now imagine {x} more improvements and addons to medical procedures, without fixing that bug. Starting to see the problem yet?
Most mod creators I've see weigh in on this subject seem to favor bugfixes over new systems in priority, as well but that's also my own personal experience, YMMV.
At some arbitrary point, adding new features WILL end up more a hindrance than benefit, if you never clean up your spaghetti code. Clean code also doesn't mean you can't have as many new features as you (and Tynan) like, of course. Don't kill the game with love; be a little more patient.
Quote from: sarke on August 16, 2017, 09:05:02 PM
As I said, no BIG features. The spherical globe is OK and all but nothing huge imho.
Out of curiosity, if you don't consider a spherical planet and the ability to travel around it to be a big new feature, then in that context, what new feature from previous Alphas has ever been "huge"?:
The drugs system(A15)? Scenario system(A14)? Family and relationships(A13)? Animal taming(A12)? Or earlier stuff like the joy system or seasonal weather??
IMO all the above are (at best) on par with a spherical planet/travel, if not lower, in terms of being a big/huge new feature. So if you only consider them to be "OK" new features as well, then I'm afraid there's a good chance you will always be disappointed with any new features that are implemented in the future*, as I'm not sure any of them will ever meet whatever criteria you are using to define "huge new feature".
* I have no insider knowledge in regards anything Tynan has planned for the future. But I'd put good money on him not adding a new "RimWorld meets Civilization feature!!! Build armies, research super-futuristic tech (including giant killer robots!), and expand your empire across the globe as you lead your people on a 6,000 year mission towards world domination!". Assuming of course that that would count as a huge new feature, which it might not.
I've never been disappointed with an update. I play each Alpha to about 15 - 20 years in game, and for Alpha 17 i gave my save game for testing. Optimizations have been made for late game, I look forward to A18!
Quote from: Calahan on August 17, 2017, 03:22:57 AM
Quote from: sarke on August 16, 2017, 09:05:02 PM
As I said, no BIG features. The spherical globe is OK and all but nothing huge imho.
Out of curiosity, if you don't consider a spherical planet and the ability to travel around it to be a big new feature, then in that context, what new feature from previous Alphas has ever been "huge"?:
The drugs system(A15)? Scenario system(A14)? Family and relationships(A13)? Animal taming(A12)? Or earlier stuff like the joy system or seasonal weather??
IMO all the above are (at best) on par with a spherical planet/travel, if not lower, in terms of being a big/huge new feature. So if you only consider them to be "OK" new features as well, then I'm afraid there's a good chance you will always be disappointed with any new features that are implemented in the future*, as I'm not sure any of them will ever meet whatever criteria you are using to define "huge new feature".
* I have no insider knowledge in regards anything Tynan has planned for the future. But I'd put good money on him not adding a new "RimWorld meets Civilization feature!!! Build armies, research super-futuristic tech (including giant killer robots!), and expand your empire across the globe as you lead your people on a 6,000 year mission towards world domination!". Assuming of course that that would count as a huge new feature, which it might not.
Hot damn you seem easily triggered by small questions and comments all the dude said was that the previous feature was ok there was no need to be rudely sarcastic and realistically adding something like a spherical planet and the ability to travel it is a very impressive addition from a development standpoint (as id never be able to work out how to do it myself) but from a player standpoint in terms of content its not a massive addition. Now the last thing you said about civilization meets rimworld that would be cool in a much smaller iteration and hey why not be able to research super futuristic tech thatd be badass i mean not everyone wants to spend time playing the game to simply build a ship and escape, i think some people have expressed the desire to stick around and manage their own slice of interstellar paradise.
Bozo I'll agree to a point but it also depends how you built everything as well. If its just a big pile then spaghetti is a serious issue just touching the pile.. if its more modular and built with some forethought for possibly having to gut and redo things(such as concept tests) then its less of a nightmare and compounding errors don't entirely apply. In your example if all the bionic module pulled was a single variable then you can safely(ish TM) gut and redo medicine however you feel without seriously impacting bionics. Though this is rimworld.. everything touches everything and I will admit I'm relatively new to poking around its guts as a player.
I just don't think rimworld is anywhere near the "chris roberts" point of oversaturation of features. Even simple concepts such as caravans can turn into huge developments in game replayability just by nature of expanding the game from a "colony simulator" to a "civilization simulator". Really the core game has the sky as a limit for where it will end up. Truly remarkable for a game which basically defines the difference between graphics oriented games and gameplay oriented ones.
Tynan on Twitter yesterday:
"A18 still developing! Swamp biomes, caves, named world features (oceans, ranges, deserts, etc), new art description tales, new plants, &more"
Maybe we will get Alligators, Storks and Frogs?
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on August 21, 2017, 02:44:52 AM
Tynan on Twitter yesterday:
"A18 still developing! Swamp biomes, caves, named world features (oceans, ranges, deserts, etc), new art description tales, new plants, &more"
Maybe we will get Alligators, Storks and Frogs?
River based creatures that can attack pawns would be awesome so alligators+swamp is a nice twist! Looking forward to A18
Swamp sounds good, but not with current moisture pump.
Quote from: Oblitus on August 21, 2017, 01:17:48 PM
Swamp sounds good, but not with current moisture pump.
Why not? That's what would make such a biome very unique I'd guess. Very restricted space to build upon, creating some interesting hard priorities. Perhaps even having to decide if having the farms close to the base is worth it, or taking up too much space that you need for bedrooms etc. I assume not every single tile of the map will be swamp.
Improving upon it requring a huge project of terraforming.
I can see myself finding such a map very interesting indeed.
Now that Swamp's are a thing, is there going to be a way to drain them in order to create land we can use to grow crops?
Yeah, the moisture pumps.
Moisture Pumps?
http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Moisture_pump (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Moisture_pump)
Quote from: sarke on August 21, 2017, 08:38:13 PM
Now that Swamp's are a thing
Hang on, was a swamp biome announced for A18 or something? If so, then hooray! If not, then what do you mean?
Quote from: {insert_name_here} on August 22, 2017, 04:14:13 AMHang on, was a swamp biome announced for A18 or something? If so, then hooray! If not, then what do you mean?
There was a recent post by Tynan on Twitter. https://twitter.com/TynanSylvester/status/899187869280907264
"A18 still developing! Swamp biomes, caves, named world features (oceans, ranges, deserts, etc), new art description tales, new plants, &more"
Edit - I'm going to merge this with the existing GD thread about forthcoming A18 features because this thread is about just such a feature, and if the discussion does stray from swamps then it'll likely stray into discussing other A18 features. And the existing thread is serving that purpose.
Rather than draining
Quote from: sarke on August 21, 2017, 08:38:13 PM
Now that Swamp's are a thing, is there going to be a way to drain them in order to create land we can use to grow crops?
Why not new gameplay elements like cranberries instead of the same old boring crops?
You can say alot about Cranberries, but nobody has ever claimed they are boring. That's true.
Cranberries are boring.
There ya go.
@ All - Just a quick recommendation to everyone posting in this thread to please try and keep the discussion towards features that are known to be arriving in A18, such as the new swamp biome. Or discussions that are at least somewhat related to them, such as how or if swamps can be drained.
The suggestion forum is there for a reason, so if you have any suggestion for new features you'd like to see in the game please post them in the suggestion forum where they belong, and not here. The last general discussion thread about A18 was moved to suggestions because it turned into a bucket list of "things I'd like to see in A18", and it would be a shame if this one had to follow it for the same reason (and to that end I'll likely be deleting or moving posts out of this thread if need be. Edit - Moved a couple of posts to the corresponding thread in suggestions).
tl;dr - This is not an all purpose A18 suggestion thread. Please post any general suggestions you have in the suggestions forum.
Clearly you just need to name one of your pawns "Trump" and he will drain the swamp.
Might also build a big wall and get another hostile tribe to pay for it!
Ok,... I'll show myself out. If this joke comment is against forum rules I apologise in advance, but I just couldn't let it pass.
The new biome and the caves sound exiciting, more biomes are always good. I hope theres a bit more to the caves other than them just being a hole in the wall with overhead mountain above.
The named places feature is gonna be fun as well, love me some random whacky names ;D
Im really looking forward to those additional incidents he mentioned in an older tweet, theres barely enough incidents now to make a playthrough unique. In a long game you can be sure to see every incident at least once and thats kinda boring.
Cave biome sounds intriguing; swamp biome would not interest me with the current moisture pump - a faster, reinstall-able pump could make it fun to play in, however. And of course, more critters are always a good thing.
People making arguments based on Alpha/Beta status of the game need to bear in mind that Ludeon/Tynan pretty much broke that logic when he decided to launch a 1.0 version of the game at full price on Steam and then continued to add on to it after that. I'm not arguing for or against that decision, but it does mean that calling it Alpha or Beta and arguing from this standpoint is meaningless.
I doubt there will ever be an official beta or gold version of Rimworld, becauce these terms stopped having clear and definite meanings over a decade ago (or whenever it was Kickstarter really took off). And if they do come, they will most likely not be what people expect.
Kickstarter backed projects are and probably always will be wildcards. You're giving the devs money (and a huge amount of freedom) based on promises and very early work-in-progress demos and hoping for the best.
Um, no. "Early Access" on Steam DOES NOT imply "1.0"/complete status for the game. Not even close; rather it simply means "playable in some form". Care to try that one again?
I do hope "& more" means a new notification sound, adding the death sound to minor stuff and fails just wasnt a good idea.
I wonder if the "named world locations" will have any effect on text etc.
For example, will we see things like updated text like for the wanderer event:
"A wanderer from a tribe on the other side of the Tynan Mountains arrived being chased by Bounty Hunters from that far off land. Offer them refuge?"
Or any effect on the game, like your caravan is more likely to be ambushed by the Bounty Hunters when you go through the Dark Forest
one can only hope that kind of detail is sorely missing right.
Quote from: crazyroosterman on September 04, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
one can only hope that kind of detail is sorely missing right.
Dude, it's called "punctuation" ???.
You post can be read, currently, as "One can only hope that kind of detail is sorely missing, right?" or "One can only hope; that detail is sorely missing, right?" I assume the second is what you meant, but especially on
this forum, assumptions will often lead you astray.
So...
Still radio silence on A18?
Hm.
Just like every other alpha before it was ready to be talked about... odd that.
Did you make sure your Comms Console was powered the whole time? If it wasn't powered up when an Alpha 18 notification came up, you'll have to check manually.
Also, make sure you have 3,000 silver near your Trade Beacons: Lord Tynan demands tribute for his updates.
In seriousness, here's the latest update from Twitter:
"A18 still developing! Swamp biomes, caves, named world features (oceans, ranges, deserts, etc), new art description tales, new plants, &more"
Quote from: Dargaron on September 20, 2017, 12:46:29 PM
In seriousness, here's the latest update from Twitter:
"A18 still developing! Swamp biomes, caves, named world features (oceans, ranges, deserts, etc), new art description tales, new plants, &more"
Neat! Swamp biome sounds interesting. And caves. And I wonder if we can rename the world features.
https://twitter.com/TynanSylvester/status/911386687099383808
(https://twitter.com/TynanSylvester/status/911386687099383808)
"RimWorld Alpha 18 is in internal testing... moving along nicely! There are many still-unannounced new features, content, and improvements."
Looks like we get A18 in the next few months, my guess is some time in November, pretty sure before christmas though ;D
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33212.msg338559#msg338559
In the A18 patch, the problem of late game slow seems to be getting better.
Quote from: East on September 26, 2017, 02:58:59 AM
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33212.msg338559#msg338559
In the A18 patch, the problem of late game slow seems to be getting better.
Because lategame lag only happens with this stockpile bug and not because of 1091ß247073257643298 social relations.
Anything family/leader related features in A18, apart from moral affection?
"Moral affection"? Did you mean "amorous affection"..?
Mainly moral buff when leader dies and moral debuff when family dies. I'd be grateful to see something else.
"Morale affliction" are the droids you are looking for. ;-P
Quote from: Spoonbandit on August 12, 2017, 10:13:09 PM
Maybe its just me but I would settle for stable gameplay after about 2 years in game time. It's a great game, I have spent like 250 hours on it, it gets annoying however when your colony effectively becomes unplayable because it will only run smooth on speed one, and even then it's still laggy. Seems to most often be an issue with visiting factions or caravans, or maybe it's my mods. Either way my rig is pretty good, 7700k with 1080ti, and I don't see how it is this CPU intensive, it just doesn't seem optimised after a certain point.
Even that mod that supposedly fixes and frees up resources doesn't work for me, perhaps I am in the minority for this issue, who knows.
I should point out this happens on even the small maps with all three storytellers on difficulties from rough to extreme, but i usually play on the 325x325, and yes the point of the game is to build and ship and get off planet, but I would much rather build a fortress somewhere.
So yeh, if the point of major updates is to add new functionality, why not make it more stable first?
Check out this mod. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=962732083 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=962732083)
Quote from: bdog on October 02, 2017, 08:00:39 PM
Check out this mod. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=962732083 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=962732083)
Does this mod really help with performance on the late game / very old colony? I build my ship but I don't want to leave my colony because I've invested so much time into it and playing it is still fun for me. 8)
I like the activity of the game - with new content. I played almost 800 game hours and I love it to see new stuff in some kind of time...
I mean it might not be necessary, because every new start for a new colony is different to your colony before. But I love that the game is alive - and that's is only because we get new stuff periodically
As i'm a tester, i can answer this, [REDACTED]. All jokes aside, i would love a lot more weapons, drugs and more of everything. Rimworld is awesome, game, i don't know of any major features i want.
I've moved a bunch of posts in relation to multi-threading to a new thread because they have nothing to do with A18 or its forthcoming features. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=35941.0 . And while I'm here I'll quote a section of my own post from earlier in this thread as a friendly reminder to everyone to please keep the thread on-topic.
Quote from: Calahan on August 23, 2017, 03:27:16 PM
@ All - Just a quick recommendation to everyone posting in this thread to please try and keep the discussion towards features that are known to be arriving in A18, such as the new swamp biome. Or discussions that are at least somewhat related to them, such as how or if swamps can be drained.
tynan, thx for making the best Management game ever and still updating it to this date.