I played a few hundred hours of this game a few months ago, and my biggest gripe with it was the numerous mindless "friendly fire" incidents that I felt really spoilt the game.
Returning to Rimworld a few months later, I saw there was an Avoid Friendly Fire mod, with almost thirty thousand subscribers on Steam, and subscribed to it myself. I haven't had any major issues with colonists shooting each other while using this mod, although one colonist did suffer a non-fatal bullet wound from another colonist, so the mod doesn't make friendly fire incidents impossible.
I discussed last year the possibility of having colonists hold fire instead of shooting each other when such situations arose, and one concern was that this extra layer of processing might affect game performance, although I haven't noticed any impact on this using the mod.
So the Avoid Friendly Fire mod appears to work as hoped. For me, it's a no-brainer that this should be part of the vanilla game. What are the opinions of other Rimworlders?
I rather stay as a mod. My current colony has around 30 pawns. The fact that they can shoot each other kind of forces me to redesign my base since it's not working like I thought it would.. but I like that. Sure I can make them into larger groups to avoid that issue, but then there's the problem if they were to get hit by an inferno or a rocket.
I have a problem with it in a way where they seem almost like magnets. I've seen some weird shots before and wondered how that even happened.
Nah I like it being a mod as well. The extra challenge and management adds to combat IMHO. 30k is only about 1/8 of purchases if that. So I'm not alone in liking it.
Yes
It isn't a huge issue to me (silly job crossover/degradation is a gamebreaker) but I WOULD like some more common-sense behavior from pawns. Even a literal moron is almost always trainable to stay out of the field of fire in combat, FFS (I was in the infantry; this is NOT an exaggeration at all).
Basing game difficulty on bad AI is pretty silly, IMO.
In my modded base it is a must have.
I think it should be kept optional as a mod though. I don't think Rimworld will ever be non-moddable so it should remain an option for those who like to add a challenge.
However if Tynan decided to add it or something similar I wouldn't complain myself.
I still get apprehensive when I see a walker taking a path directly in front of a shooting hunter as their warm-up timer gets ready to fire. It's so nice to see them now hold their fire, as in the vanilla game the hunter will just shoot the other colonist.
Considering pawns in this game have some basic AI, like eating, sleeping, fleeing, putting out fires, doing jobs and so on, I would have to say that the complete lack of attention placed on preventing colonists from shooting each other in the vanilla game in no-risk situations to be in my top ten of dumbest things I've ever seen in a video game.
While I find it inexplicable that this mod would not be integrated into the base game, I guess the most important thing that there is at least now a mod available that addresses and fixes this issue, so at least I can enjoy the game again now.
I hear you I was taking care of a psychic ship crash and had to re adjust my firing line to take out the last centipede. Was nice to see the snipers hold fire as the closer range pawns crossed their line of fire.
One should also be aware that one can fix such issues post facto with the Dev tools, through resurrecting and healing pawns.
I used it in my current game when I had a pack of manhunting cobras infiltrate my base. One colonist got trapped in a room and there were some cobras breaking down the door. I had him repair the door, but, with lots of stuff to deal with around the base, I neglected to stop him repairing the door before he had fixed it, whereupon he immediately and automatically opened said door, and got eaten by cobras. I thought this was so silly that I used the Remove Hediff tool in the Dev mode to heal him of his injuries and also replace the door.
I wish I'd known about this in my previous game, which had a sombre pall hanging over it when, early in the game, my hero guy inexplicably shot this woman colonist in the head with a sniper rifle and killed her in a situation of no danger. Knowing what I do now, I would have immediately revived her with the Dev tools and swept this tragic non sequitur incident under the rug. Incidentally, this hero colonist in my previous game was eventually killed by immediately opening a door he'd been repairing, and getting killed by manhunting animals. I would have used the Dev tool to fix that too.
I'm not sure what this mod does specifically, but I would approve of some basic gun safety.
Non-drafted pawns avoiding live fire would be the biggest thing. I wouldn't mind if shooters were to hold fire if a friendly runs in front of them.
I wouldn't want friendly fire to be impossible, however. Pawns getting hit by missed or stray bullets is reasonable. Pawns getting hit if they take that risk is reasonable. Pawns running in front of somebody that's firing / lining up shots, and that person continuing as if oblivious to their surroundings seems unreasonable.
I wouldn't mind seeing protection from friendly fire during hunting, but any drafted combat I think friendly fire should be in place. If I had to choose one or the other I'd prefer it as-is.
Quote from: gipothegip on January 10, 2018, 09:26:33 PM
I'm not sure what this mod does specifically, but I would approve of some basic gun safety.
Non-drafted pawns avoiding live fire would be the biggest thing. I wouldn't mind if shooters were to hold fire if a friendly runs in front of them.
I wouldn't want friendly fire to be impossible, however. Pawns getting hit by missed or stray bullets is reasonable. Pawns getting hit if they take that risk is reasonable. Pawns running in front of somebody that's firing / lining up shots, and that person continuing as if oblivious to their surroundings seems unreasonable.
That's actually one of the really good things about the mod is you can pick and choose how it works. There are 5 different settings covering things like animals and pawns with shield belts. So you can fine tune things.
Any soldier will tell you that fratricide is a real threat on the battlefield. They drill weapon safety into your head day one in basic training. I have cringed since hour one in this game when a colonist walks casually across a line of fire. I wish the colonists were a little smarter, but friendly fire is a thing.
It works both ways. I have let centipedes chew each other up with cross fire on a few occasions.
Per Wikipedia : According to the most comprehensive survey of casualties (both fatal and nonfatal), 21 percent of the casualties in World War II were attributable to friendly fire, 39 percent of the casualties in Vietnam, and 52 percent of the casualties in the first Gulf War. In the ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, casualty rates are 41 percent and 13 percent, respectively.
A lot of the "friendly fire" deaths in the vanilla game would not be justifiable as accidental or even negligent homicide in a court of law. They would result in a verdict nothing short of 2nd degree murder. (I am not a lawyer).
In any case, one can toggle the friendly fire option on and off for each colonist, so if there are times when a colonist is being swarmed by enemy and you want to let rip regardless of the consequence, then you can do so, and I have done once or twice.
Many friendly fire incidents in the military result in diciplanary action. Just look at the Pat Tillman incident. I leave friendly fire in the game for the extra flavor it gives, but I don't fault anyone who wants to mod it out.
Leave it as a mod. It is fine as it is.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on January 10, 2018, 09:58:16 PM
Per Wikipedia : According to the most comprehensive survey of casualties (both fatal and nonfatal), 21 percent of the casualties in World War II were attributable to friendly fire, 39 percent of the casualties in Vietnam, and 52 percent of the casualties in the first Gulf War. In the ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, casualty rates are 41 percent and 13 percent, respectively.
Thinking about who was involved in those conflicts I further doubt the title of the self proclaimed best army in the world ...
But I think the same way, if friendly fire is possible .. weapon safety should also be possible.
When related to hunting and not in actual combat, very much yes.
Quote from: BoogieMan on January 13, 2018, 10:30:11 PM
When related to hunting and not in actual combat, very much yes.
I got more than 8 hunters with assault rifles and I haven't witnessed any friendly fire. They'll walk in front of each other and everything missing all the bullets that would most likely hit in other alphas. Have the chances for FF decreased or is it has it been removed for hunting?
Neither; you simply were lucky.
I tested this a couple of times. I drafted a group of pawns following an animal that is being hunted. Yes a bullet will hit a pawn every now and then. But if you were to draft the hunter then fire at the animal then the difference is quite noticeable. More pawns are hit by more bullets. I was unaware of that so that's what made me think there was an update to hunting.
Quote from: Jibbles on January 14, 2018, 02:23:02 AM
I got more than 8 hunters with assault rifles and I haven't witnessed any friendly fire. They'll walk in front of each other and everything missing all the bullets that would most likely hit in other alphas. Have the chances for FF decreased or is it has it been removed for hunting?
Bullet interception while hunting was removed in A14. And the friendly fire chance in general was decreased in A15.
This means hunting accidents can still happen but they are rare: It is not enough that a fellow colonists walks between the hunter and his prey (that would be intercept) but the hunter has to miss and the bullet then must land in a tile with another pawn to accidently hit him. And this isn't that likely.
It might happen more often if you hunt with weapons with a forced miss radius like miniguns or grenades where "missing" is the weapon's modus operandi.
Edit@Topic: Nah, keep friendly fire in the game. Or make it setting, preferably with default = enabled. Just don't remove it. The one change I would like is if I could choose the default for "Fire at will" when drafting. In 4 out of 5 combat situations I don't want "Fire at will" enabled or only for a few colonists and not for the majority.
No.
What little depth the vanilla combat already has, it should stay.
If anything i would like things to move more towards something like the combat extended mod built into the core experience.
No offense to anyone working in this fantastic game but it always hits a point not too far into any playthrough where things get quite stale and a little boring/repetitive. We need little things like these to keep the game interesting instead of making it more of an ant-farm like experience.
What about a middle path, in which colonists use something like the Avoid Friendly Fire mod, but pawns with the Psychopath or Trigger-Happy traits ignore it? That should remove most of the really dumb and game-spoiling friendly fire incidents, yet still provide potential "drama" events of colonists shooting each other, which some people seem to enjoy (and not that the Avoid Friendly Fire mod removes the possibility of these events), plus an increased strategic layer of utilizing such units pawns in battle without accruing collateral damage.
This issue has a diversity of opinion - why not represent that diversity in the game? Combining both points of view in the game means that everybody's opinion is being represented.
I'd like to see friendly fire implemented as a chance based on shooter skill (independent of any accuracy effects). What I mean is a shooting level 0 pawn will happily blaze away no matter who run across the field of fire, while a shoot level 10 pawn has a much higher but not 100% chance of holding fire when a friendly is running in front of the sights.
Quote from: Scrabbling on January 15, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: Jibbles on January 14, 2018, 02:23:02 AM
I got more than 8 hunters with assault rifles and I haven't witnessed any friendly fire. They'll walk in front of each other and everything missing all the bullets that would most likely hit in other alphas. Have the chances for FF decreased or is it has it been removed for hunting?
Bullet interception while hunting was removed in A14. And the friendly fire chance in general was decreased in A15.
This means hunting accidents can still happen but they are rare: It is not enough that a fellow colonists walks between the hunter and his prey (that would be intercept) but the hunter has to miss and the bullet then must land in a tile with another pawn to accidently hit him. And this isn't that likely.
It might happen more often if you hunt with weapons with a forced miss radius like miniguns or grenades where "missing" is the weapon's modus operandi.
Edit@Topic: Nah, keep friendly fire in the game. Or make it setting, preferably with default = enabled. Just don't remove it. The one change I would like is if I could choose the default for "Fire at will" when drafting. In 4 out of 5 combat situations I don't want "Fire at will" enabled or only for a few colonists and not for the majority.
I just wish AI hunting were viable. It still isn't, because of how the game positions the hunter exposing you to animal revenge nonsense. Much safer/more practical to draft a firing squad and gun down the critters, and you 0% FF chance that way if you micro well, rather than just "rare".
FF itself is fine in the game. You do get a grace distance and its existence adds to how you consider your own (and enemy!) positions. I don't see why taking it out makes the game better, and arguably it would hurt combat depth.