I am still stuck in my B18 ways by having a basic killbox that's basically a long rectangle with a hallway of death littered with deadfall traps. The traps are no longer the easy peasy place-and-forget type of deal so I'm trying to augment my defense with mini-turrets, lining them by the side of the rectangle while the other end my colonists rain down lead on any idiot that tries to get to them.
I am now planning to install mini-turrets around the perimeter while having the autocannons and the slug-thrower facing the open desert plains. Wiring is gonna be a bit of a pain but I'm sure I'll manage. My biggest hiccup would be supporting these turrets. Not only can they be costly to build, the need to replace the barrels can also eat a lot of resources. I don't mind the resources I have enough for now, but why should I really when I can build a long firing line and throw my Imperial Guardsmen behind some sandbags and let them do most of the damage?
Maybe I'm missing something but other than cannon fodder for the odd psychic ship, what is the best way to use turrets?
I am playing an animal swarm game and experimenting with how to mix traps and turrets in with my 45 alpacas. My current design is to put a mini-turret in a little bastion. The walls force enemies to bunch up if they want to shoot at it, which makes the turret spray more effective.
The turret is meant to be sacrificed to buy time. It costs 100 steel and 3 components, but the wreckage has 1 component and 3 steel slag chunks, so the net cost isn't so bad. I don't know if the turret ever downs enemies, but the IED traps sure do. I'll probably plant some trees for enemies to hide behind.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 29, 2018, 09:51:01 AM
I am playing an animal swarm game and experimenting with how to mix traps and turrets in with my 45 alpacas. My current design is to put a mini-turret in a little bastion. The walls force enemies to bunch up if they want to shoot at it, which makes the turret spray more effective.
The turret is meant to be sacrificed to buy time. It costs 100 steel and 3 components, but the wreckage has 1 component and 3 steel slag chunks, so the net cost isn't so bad. I don't know if the turret ever downs enemies, but the IED traps sure do. I'll probably plant some trees for enemies to hide behind.
How much damage do those IEDs do to your walls and sandbags? I'm trying to use them effectively but they keep not getting triggered because I have no clue to place them, i'm a bit scared about putting them near my walls.
Im about 3 years in and only recently started using turrets.
I use them partially as a distraction/fodder and damage dealer.
For non drop pod attacks I am using an outer wall to delay the attack and a doorless inner wall to funnel them into my turret's and colonist's line of fire. The inner wall is positioned so as to force even snipers into the turret's range. I have not used any traps.
This is my current setup:
[attachment deleted due to age]
When the IED goes off, usually one wall section ends up rubble. The IED isn't enough by itself, but other missed shots finish it. The sandbags almost always survive unless there's a second explosion.
In my extremely defensible mountain base with a long narrow entrance turrets are nothing more but an AI herder to prevent sappers from mining through too much mountain. Traps work pretty well, I have spikes as well as IEDs.
In previous games with open bases I used the large turrets, mainly because their range makes them useful. Naturally sniper turrets are best for a truly open base, just because of the range and because they don't need to have constant line of sight to deal DPS, a few shots when enemies move between buildings is nearly as good as if they could fire all the time.
Not using turrets. Too inaccurate and slow for their cost and maintenance.
Traps trump turrets.
Quote from: Zombull on July 29, 2018, 06:33:23 PM
Not using turrets. Too inaccurate and slow for their cost and maintenance.
Traps trump turrets.
Even post-nerf traps? I'm finding them quite hard to work with. Not a fan TBH as I never liked turrets for the same reason you stated.
inside killboxes!
Quote from: giltirn on July 29, 2018, 07:29:46 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 29, 2018, 06:33:23 PM
Not using turrets. Too inaccurate and slow for their cost and maintenance.
Traps trump turrets.
Even post-nerf traps? I'm finding them quite hard to work with. Not a fan TBH as I never liked turrets for the same reason you stated.
Traps weren't nerfed, they were buffed quite substantially. They're cheap now and do a ton of damage. And you can uninstall and move them if you need to. My only complaint about them is the auto rebuild won't use uninstalled traps from storage. It will always build new. Nonetheless, I use them heavily.
Quote from: Zombull on July 29, 2018, 07:59:58 PM
Traps weren't nerfed, they were buffed quite substantially. They're cheap now and do a ton of damage. And you can uninstall and move them if you need to. My only complaint about them is the auto rebuild won't use uninstalled traps from storage. It will always build new. Nonetheless, I use them heavily.
They are single-use, very resource heavy (you say they are cheap, but they are only 50% of the resource cost they were in B18), and have to be placed so far apart that they become next to useless for anything more than acting as a minefield for unlucky raiders. In my experience I lose so many to random wildlife and manhunting rodents that they become too resource-intensive to manage; and that's just with wood traps. No-one in their right mind would use steel or plasteel for traps now, and stone is far too precious to throw away until you get deep drilling. Used to be that you could place them strategically with careful wall placement to funnel the enemy, but now they are just a spray-and-pray largely mindless affair and a massive burden to keep operating. Not a fan at all.
Quote from: giltirn on July 29, 2018, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 29, 2018, 07:59:58 PM
Traps weren't nerfed, they were buffed quite substantially. They're cheap now and do a ton of damage. And you can uninstall and move them if you need to. My only complaint about them is the auto rebuild won't use uninstalled traps from storage. It will always build new. Nonetheless, I use them heavily.
They are single-use, very resource heavy (you say they are cheap, but they are only 50% of the resource cost they were in B18), and have to be placed so far apart that they become next to useless for anything more than acting as a minefield for unlucky raiders. In my experience I lose so many to random wildlife and manhunting rodents that they become too resource-intensive to manage; and that's just with wood traps. No-one in their right mind would use steel or plasteel for traps now, and stone is far too precious to throw away until you get deep drilling. Used to be that you could place them strategically with careful wall placement to funnel the enemy, but now they are just a spray-and-pray largely mindless affair and a massive burden to keep operating. Not a fan at all.
They're not too resource intensive to manage. Plenty of players manage them just fine. They're not supposed to be a totally self-sufficient, set-it-and-forget-it base defense. If that's what you wanted, I can see why you're upset by the change. To each their own.
I typically use stone traps since they're now about as good as steel used to be. I like to place them where I can predict attacking enemies will seek cover. Behind trees or rocks or at natural corners. Sometimes if I'm flush with stone (mountain base) I do the trap tunnel, but of course that just prompts Cassandra to send "tactical" raiders and sappers and sieges and base drops instead. Sometimes I just do bunkers and lay traps near it to take out meleers.
So I built a little wall around the sides and back of my auto cannons. Does it block much because they don't seem to fire very well with them and maybe I should use sandbags instead.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 30, 2018, 11:07:21 PM
So I built a little wall around the sides and back of my auto cannons. Does it block much because they don't seem to fire very well with them and maybe I should use sandbags instead.
I don't use walls to protect the turrets.
I use them to block the explosion they create when they are destroyed.
That way I can mitigate collateral damage, and have colonists shooting from behind the turrets in relative safety even if the turrets are destroyed.
So this is my current setup. Things to do: put corridors by the side so you can run through em quick and NEVER EVER run through the middle and get caught in friendly fire.
Suggestions?
https://imgur.com/a/l63OLDv
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 31, 2018, 07:38:10 AM
...
Suggestions?
...
Your entry corridor will cause all of the long range Raiders to stop at the outside of the corridor. From there only the middle turret will be able to fire on them, and any Raider with a sniper rifle will stand outside of it's range to plink it to death.
I suggest moving the Corridor a few tiles to either side of its current position, to force even the long range Raiders to actually enter the box to get line of sight on the turrets. And to add a back wall at the back of the corridor to prevent snipers from attacking at range. Also the entry corridor doesn't need to be that long. The shorter it is the better the attack angle the turrets will have. If shortening the entry corridor places its exit out of turret range, move the whole outer wall closer to keep the shortened entry corridor in range.
Quote from: giltirn on July 29, 2018, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 29, 2018, 07:59:58 PM
Traps weren't nerfed, they were buffed quite substantially. They're cheap now and do a ton of damage. And you can uninstall and move them if you need to. My only complaint about them is the auto rebuild won't use uninstalled traps from storage. It will always build new. Nonetheless, I use them heavily.
They are single-use, very resource heavy (you say they are cheap, but they are only 50% of the resource cost they were in B18), and have to be placed so far apart that they become next to useless for anything more than acting as a minefield for unlucky raiders. In my experience I lose so many to random wildlife and manhunting rodents that they become too resource-intensive to manage; and that's just with wood traps. No-one in their right mind would use steel or plasteel for traps now, and stone is far too precious to throw away until you get deep drilling. Used to be that you could place them strategically with careful wall placement to funnel the enemy, but now they are just a spray-and-pray largely mindless affair and a massive burden to keep operating. Not a fan at all.
They are quite useful. The spacing nerf was implemented because they are so deadly now. It encourages tactical placement. If you have a map with a lot of obstruction (mountain) it is easy to determine what paths raiders will take after observing a few raids. Corners and narrows are excellent places to trap. I have had enormous success with them. Animals do occasionally trip them, but it is not too bad. I generally have a lot of steel or stone, but wood traps are viable on any forest map.
Quote from: sadpickle on August 01, 2018, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: giltirn on July 29, 2018, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 29, 2018, 07:59:58 PM
Traps weren't nerfed, they were buffed quite substantially. They're cheap now and do a ton of damage. And you can uninstall and move them if you need to. My only complaint about them is the auto rebuild won't use uninstalled traps from storage. It will always build new. Nonetheless, I use them heavily.
They are single-use, very resource heavy (you say they are cheap, but they are only 50% of the resource cost they were in B18), and have to be placed so far apart that they become next to useless for anything more than acting as a minefield for unlucky raiders. In my experience I lose so many to random wildlife and manhunting rodents that they become too resource-intensive to manage; and that's just with wood traps. No-one in their right mind would use steel or plasteel for traps now, and stone is far too precious to throw away until you get deep drilling. Used to be that you could place them strategically with careful wall placement to funnel the enemy, but now they are just a spray-and-pray largely mindless affair and a massive burden to keep operating. Not a fan at all.
They are quite useful. The spacing nerf was implemented because they are so deadly now. It encourages tactical placement. If you have a map with a lot of obstruction (mountain) it is easy to determine what paths raiders will take after observing a few raids. Corners and narrows are excellent places to trap. I have had enormous success with them. Animals do occasionally trip them, but it is not too bad. I generally have a lot of steel or stone, but wood traps are viable on any forest map.
I admit that after spending the evening on it yesterday that the wide separation of the traps is not as big a burden as I thought. It does, as I expected, make traditional uses of traps accompanied by funneling systems much more difficult, but placing a few near corners and hidey holes where you expect enemies to take up position works very well given how damaging the traps are. However the biggest difficulty for me is the resource demand. I am playing a boreal forest and have quite literally stripped the entire map (large!) of trees. I've had to stop using them for now as I simply cannot afford the resource cost. God knows how anyone would be able to use plasteel, steel or even stone traps for anything but last ditch defenses. The cost needs to be reduced by a factor of 2x or more IMO. Most likely come 1.0 I will mod them to buff their initial cost back to 70 and stop them from being destroyed after one use.
I think that 35 is low enough. It was 40 initially, but I complained =p
Wood is fast to acquire, but can be hard to come by, while stone seems to be a relatively optimal material. At least I often have a lot of stone blocks, even on non-mountainous maps.
setting wood trap then 1 AOE blast and all gone lol, while stone traps corridor take days to finish
You: I can't figure out how to use the new traps
Me:(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/776223533781273372/14DE6F7BDE85D49361408AEA599EFCC72B20A2A7/)
Mostly don't use, costly for tribal to research and small benefit. Better to wealth manage and micro pawns decently.
That said battery + moving turrets can help against sappers, though door micro is still the winner there IMO.
Quote from: Raooka on June 22, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
You: I can't figure out how to use the new traps
Me:(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/776223533781273372/14DE6F7BDE85D49361408AEA599EFCC72B20A2A7/)
This isn't good, raiders would mostly come from 1 place and funnel through just 1 or 2 of those. Better to have a solid wall and make them walk along it- then they hit all the traps.
Topic moved from turrets to traps, so... I am finally trying to take advantage of them in natural pathways, like corners or behind trees that would be hiding places. It has worked very well. But it's also very expensive since I use steel. Stone might be more manageable, at least for a while, but will be less efficient against well-dressed raiders and mechs.
(https://i.imgur.com/wuSo8hR.jpg)
Turrets I use in killboxes (when I build them), and in late game, dotted around the base's interior to help against the plethora of drop pod attacks. I like to build a big square walled off area for a killbox (not these elaborate burning infernos), which allows my dudes and cannons to fire at them en mass, and forces raiders into the box so they can't stand outside the line of our fire and snipe at turrets and whatnot. Some auto cannons and a uranium slug turret can work wonders -- but are of course very resource intensive to maintain.
Stone traps take very long to build.
Since you got regrowable wood, you should try these out.
Yes they don't do so much damage, but you can build alot of them very fast.
But steel trap you should build as last defence befor your base.
Quote from: Canute on July 06, 2019, 03:48:53 AM
Stone traps take very long to build.
Since you got regrowable wood, you should try these out.
Yes they don't do so much damage, but you can build alot of them very fast.
But steel trap you should build as last defence befor your base.
Aye, I noticed the work required when I looked at the info in-game. Which rather effectively removes stone traps from the equation. Steel traps are excellent because they are quick to (re)build, do lots of damage, and powers through armour resistance. I fear wood traps will just tickle well-armoured raiders and especially mechs. Will they actually be useful in the mid-to-late game? Much more vulnerable to fire as well.
The upside, of course, is that wood is plentiful, while steel is always a limiting factor the longer the game lasts.
Bog standard setup, probably, but I'm using the new cannons like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/DmgsR0Yl.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/DmgsR0Y.jpg)
Not ideal range across the board due to all the mud, but it has worked out pretty well so far. The miniturrets in the south can't fire unless the raiders move inwards a little, but they still serve a purpose as a distraction, especially against Centipedes.
Two Uranium slug turrets have just been erected in the back, and they do devastating damage against Centipedes, which is the main threat now.
In other saves I've tried to setup autocannons in strategic spots outside the base, but it simply doesn't work. Even heavily protected by walls and sandbags and colonists, they too easily get sniped or overrun.
Especially the slug turrets can get very expensive, so I've set them up with a power switch so I can turn them off against normal raiders.
Not a fan of the Big fat uranium cannons/sniper turrets...
Since when you put a guy behind it, there's a chance of your pawn dying from friendly from it, this includes from autocannons.
But i heavily prefer autocannons and plasteel and steel mini-turrets more.
Not a fan of killboxes, but i heavily use some autocannons and mini-turrets around my base to ward of raiders and mechanoids for a while before my pawns armed to the teeth come in.