Not sure what I'm supposed to do when the caribou gang up and exterminate my colonists, other than devmode explosions and heals after watching them get slaughtered. Quite ridiculous.
I'm not sure why raiders have been nerfed and caribou not. It would be nice to see this reversed.
OK, time to go blow up some caribou...
Use caravans as revenge insurance.
This is in the early game, prior to having a normal food supply set up. No caravans about...
unless you mean sending someone off on a caravan? But he still can't return until the caribou calm down.
--------------------------
Anyway, I just figured out how to fix this. Increase the percentage risk of caribou going manhunting when injured, but make the chance random for *each* caribou. So when you anger one, maybe another one or two join in -- few enough that the event is survivable. And because the frequency is higher, it makes hunting a challenge. It's a risk but not an all-or-nothing risk.
Don't hunt animals that revenge in herds, until you can handle animals that revenge in herds.
By the time I can handle animals that revenge in herds, I have a food supply established and don't need to hunt at all. I never bother hunting after I get my farms going.
If the caribou are going to behave this way, they might as well not even be there -- in which case, there's no reason to refrain from devmoding explosions on them whenever they annoy me.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 13, 2018, 08:34:35 PM
Don't hunt animals that revenge in herds, until you can handle animals that revenge in herds.
This ^
Also, I'm glad Tynan went for the realistic approach. Caribou will often attack in herds in real life and wipe out small settlements.
There is no problem fighting herd caribou. Just set traps. Lots of traps. If there's wood, this isn't an issue at all.
And there's no significant wood on a tundra map, so it's an issue.
On the hilarious side, a pack of alphabeavers just showed up. I'm going to watch them starve to death, it should be funny.
If you've got rifles it helps, compared to closer-ranged weapons like shotguns. Other than that, yeah, just try to hunt them when they're farther away from the herd. Nutrient paste dispencers also help, by reducing the amount of raw food you need to feed everyone.
Nutrient paste is basically a necessity past 8 pawns, it becomes way too tedious to maintain a decent amount of meals.
Currently playing on boreal forest. Didn't have an issue with hunting and killing entire herds before winter.
Yes, 9 times out of 10 you can gun down an entire herd of caribou with your starting rifle and revolver with no trouble.
I would prefer to see each caribou have a 20% chance of turning manhunter each time it is shot -- and the remainder of the herd run away. Guaranteeing that you get attacked repeatedly by single caribou (which your starting colonists can handle, albeit with difficulty). And if you spray machinegun fire into the whole herd, well, you get what you deserve.
You can also hide indoors until they calm down, you know.
Quote from: Shurp on October 14, 2018, 12:19:00 PM
Yes, 9 times out of 10 you can gun down an entire herd of caribou with your starting rifle and revolver with no trouble.
I would prefer to see each caribou have a 20% chance of turning manhunter each time it is shot -- and the remainder of the herd run away. Guaranteeing that you get attacked repeatedly by single caribou (which your starting colonists can handle, albeit with difficulty). And if you spray machinegun fire into the whole herd, well, you get what you deserve.
Or just the males? Lol.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 14, 2018, 01:07:28 PM
You can also hide indoors until they calm down, you know.
If you can outrun them to get back to base, sure. What's the move rate on caribou again?
"Well, don't hunt them until you have bionic legs." Right, by then I have a pig farm too, so why hunt them at all?
The movespeed changes in B19 were designed to make hunting more miserable, so this thread will simply be seen as a sign of success.
While we're stating our own preferences as facts, It is an undeniable fact that you can hunt meat in the mid and even late game, and shooting caribou in groups with charge rifles is a very easy way to avoid the various issues with herd revenge. I frequently go on 3-5 person hunting trips to take out entire herds of "dangerous" animals with no troubles.
I also have never used nutrient paste so I can state as fact that they should remove it from the game.
Sure, remove nutrient paste too, I never use that either. :-P
And yes, if the goal was to make hunting a pain and not worthwhile, it's definitely a success. Though I did enjoy the manhunting beavers that showed up later. Because they have a slow move rate I was able to run my pawns around and shoot them -- but it was a tricky operation, a few pawns almost got surrounded.
Ive never used nutrient paste either, remove!
Quote from: Scavenger on October 14, 2018, 11:18:32 PM
Ive never used nutrient paste either, remove!
No way!!! How will I feed my pack of dromdaries with elephant meat paste?!
The game isn't supposed to have 0 difficulty. Accept that there are risks to living on a Tundra and hunting animals that respond in kind some of the time. Whining about it doesn't help much.
Touch nutrient paste and I come to your houses and skin you alive. It's an essential part of any sane colony.
Manhunter them with mortars. Greet them in your kill box.
If they revenge, shoot them until they get close to a door, then close it with an open door somewhere else further away. When they get close to that one, open the first one then close the 2nd.
Repeat until they're all dead.
Automated hunting is still a false choice, though more usable if you're willing to reload when it screws you. Draft hunting and positioning in a way that lets you get to said doors reliably allows even tribal pawns with bows to safely hunt.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 15, 2018, 06:20:07 AM
The game isn't supposed to have 0 difficulty. Accept that there are risks to living on a Tundra and hunting animals that respond in kind some of the time. Whining about it doesn't help much.
Offtopic/non-sequitur + ad hominem.
Exploiting AI mechanics is always an option, but generally people try to avoid needing that on any difficulty except Merciless.
Not at all off topic, nor a non sequitur (the topic is something being ridiculous due to the difficulty it poses) and it followed from him talking about how hard it is to hunt entire herds of caribou in the tundra.
The closest I got to ad hominem was a my cannibal/bloodlust inspired comment about what would happen if they got nutrient paste removed from the game. I blame RimWorld for that one, I recently clad one of my Bloodlust-ed (not-yet-nutrient-paste-eating) colonists in several articles of human leather clothing.
I never said anyone here was whining, though I heavily implied it. What I actually said was that whining does not help! Which is, in fact, true, and not at all offensive!
Difficulty where it is expected is not a game bug.
Note that the discussion of my post definitely is off topic, so I suggest we take this to PM after my response so as to not mess up the thread. Your poor grasp of the terms non sequitur and ad hominem made me grin a bit, though -- thanks.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 14, 2018, 05:50:26 AM
Nutrient paste is basically a necessity past 8 pawns, it becomes way too tedious to maintain a decent amount of meals.
You just build additional stoves. As a Lost Tribe exclusive player, I always end up with 2 Fueled Stoves and the third or fourth are Electric Stoves.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on October 15, 2018, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 14, 2018, 05:50:26 AM
Nutrient paste is basically a necessity past 8 pawns, it becomes way too tedious to maintain a decent amount of meals.
You just build additional stoves. As a Lost Tribe exclusive player, I always end up with 2 Fueled Stoves and the third or fourth are Electric Stoves.
I find I can go up to about 15 or so with a single stove, though that cook is almost relegated to the kitchen full time when not sleeping or playing. That's 30 fine meals in the 10 or so hours I make them work or 3 meals an hour. Which seems a bit ridiculous but hey it is what it is. I guess most of that is travel time even tough all the ingredients are on hand, and plus there's walking to and from the kitchen.
Once I start falling behind on meals I usually just decide who's the other cook and move them to the night shift. I used to make 2 stoves but then realized they were sitting idle for over half the day.
Herd revenge is a nice feature for bringing food right next to the door. You only need pawn that moves faster than game. Well, you actually need to manually control him/her on the way back since autopathing is bad and inefficient over the long distances. Also you should consider repeatedly switching targets while pack hunting so game become wounded and bled. This makes path back a little safer and helps a lot when it's time to kill the pack. Or you can just wait them all to bleed to death near your doorstep. It saves some time as well.
Autohunting is good for target practice. You make pawn you want to train shooting equip autopistol, as it has the best "trigger" rate, preferably awful quality or at least poor for the worst chance to hit, and you send them hunt such harmless little animals like rats, squirrels, chinchillas or less harmless but slow and also small game like iguanas and tortoises. The "harmless" part makes autotraining save and the "little" part make it efficient as small animal size reduces hit chance thus prolonging shooting time whereas moving time remains the same.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 12:14:51 AMThat's 30 fine meals in the 10 or so hours I make them work or 3 meals an hour. Which seems a bit ridiculous but hey it is what it is. I guess most of that is travel time even tough all the ingredients are on hand, and plus there's walking to and from the kitchen.
It seems you don't use stools to prevent pawns from moving in the process of making food or anything else. For cooking stoves and drag labs stools are mandatory, because items produced on these benches require very little time. Some items in the machining table need stools as well to be effectively produced. Place stools with ingredients on them next to stove and meals will be made like they are coming from machinegun, because pawns will not waste time moving back and forth.
Quote from: B@R5uk on October 16, 2018, 02:17:54 AM
It seems you don't use stools to prevent pawns from moving in the process of making food or anything else. For cooking stoves and drag labs stools are mandatory, because items produced on these benches require very little time. Some items in the machining table need stools as well to be effectively produced. Place stools with ingredients on them next to stove and meals will be made like they are coming from machinegun, because pawns will not waste time moving back and forth.
I know of this but never use it (well other than trying it to see if I liked it) because it ends up taking up 2 people's time, the cook and a full time hauler to continuously bring the 5-10 times that the cook takes from the stockpile. So unless you literally have a person who all they can do is haul and there is no other hauling to do, you're wasting more time (or at best just as much) doing it that way.
And I'm glad I never relied on it, as in 1.0 it's reportedly been removed as a mechanic. You can still put a stool there but the pawn will step into the square to pick up the items like there isn't one.
On the revenge theme. It's good to set off the pack on raiders or caravans. In first case it's free fighters and in second case it's free meat. You can also rescue incapacitated caravan soldiers and strip them for free stuff and nurture them while they are healing to gain free faction standing.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 02:35:44 AM
I know of this but never use it...
I saw you wrote about it in the other topic and I tried my best to explain how to do it right.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 02:35:44 AM
...as in 1.0 it's reportedly been removed as a mechanic...
No, it still works.
QuoteYou just build additional stoves. As a Lost Tribe exclusive player, I always end up with 2 Fueled Stoves and the third or fourth are Electric Stoves.
I also play a lot of Lost Tribe ... I still research the nutrient paste dispenser past a certain point of colonists.
The work I lose by having a dedicated chef is incredible past 8 colonists. As a rule of thumb you're going to want 2.5 * no_of_colonists meals produced per day. At 8 colonists you are now producing 20 meals per day, which is incredibly time and resource consuming. Optimizing the kitchen is one thing but you still lose a whopping 10+ hours of work from someone who might have other talents than cooking.
In 1.0 you can tell people not to eat pemmican, which means you can actually use the nutrient paste dispenser while telling people to create a nice rainy-day storage of food very easily. That guy who was just "maintaining the colony meal number" now becomes an asset that can create many hundreds of pemmican per day. The other guy you would have needed to continue production past that point can now hunt and butcher, allowing more value for the colony.
I think it's matter of preferences. I prefer keeping my people happy, so -4 mood debuff against +5 mood buff for me is easy choice. But above anything else I prefer keeping my people fed and alive, so when it's food shortage it's time for paste. And I prefer my wardens not to waste time hauling food for prisoners, so prison gets its dedicated dispenser too.
Hauling 6 corn to the prison dispenser uses the cooking job priority which is depressing. I don't even care if a hauler spends half the day doing that, but it ends up interrupting cooks other jobs since cooking has to be high priority. Should be under basic or haul. Or implement RSA......
The dispenser turns 0.5 units of nutrition into 1.0. A cook turns 0.5 into 0.9. 0.1 nutrition isn't enough of a bonus in nutrition to seem worthwhile, not unless you're dumping haygrass in.
As for the time penalty of having a dedicated cook, the more colonists you have the less of an impact losing some to cooking is. 2 colonists out of 10 spending all day cooking is no different than 1 colonist out of 3 spending half his day cooking. And if you're willing to spend time training cooks you can turn otherwise useless pawns into cooks while other pawns do real work.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 13, 2018, 08:34:35 PM
Don't hunt animals that revenge in herds, until you can handle animals that revenge in herds.
This +1 (+2 with 5thHorseman). You are hunting with a rifle and a revolver, I hunt them down with bows...
But let's go back to the opening post before talking about the NPD.
Here we have again the same problem as before, misdirection of Ludeon Studios development time. You want to address a problem that is actually "non-existent", while Tynan and company should be addressing REAL problems. And by giving attention to "your" problem, you end up jeopardizing more important matters that need prioritization:
1.-
Pathfinding: This is something that players who actually watch their hunters will notice as opposed to players who don't keep track of their pawns. A hunter will most likely position itself in a location that "auto-corners" him/her in case he/she needs to flee, more often than not with the back towards a mountain and the targets blocking the way out. Because pawn AI is extremely stupid, even if they can shoot from the gates of a City Wall, they will still go outside and camp in awkward places. This is, I reiterate, Priority level 1 in need of fixing.
2.-
Catch up intelligence: Again, like point number 1, you will know this if you actually do keep track of your pawns. Sometimes, a colony gets hit by Cold Snap, or simply hard snow winter and animals start to leave the map, so if you assign pawns to go hunting before they leave, they will reach shooting range and start aiming, but because the target is on the move, they don't get enough time to even shoot a single bullet, so they proceed to chase again and stop...again...in range...but ...again...they cant shoot because their warm-up is too slow... So you can only solve this manually...again...because pawn AI is extremely stupid. This, can be put as Priority level 2 in urgency of fixing.
3.-
Selective Revenge: This next one is kinda odd but has low priority...but still higher than your problem. Pack animals or herd animals turn into "Revenge" when they spot their shooter...
but they NEVER go Revenge when attacked by a natural Predator which should be logical, reasonable and common sense even for animals... but then again...my memory serves me well and reminds me...that
YOU have problems with Predators attacks...because
you don't keep track of your pawns...
All, these three game development failures require "more" attention that "your" problems...and telling Tynan & Co, to "adjust" the game just for you... only brings disappointment to the vast majority of the Community who is still looking forward for the first three points to be finally fixed before version 1.0 hits the shelves... (and the reason why we still need a B20, B21 and maybe B22 before the "official release").
Yeah, pathfinding is terrible. Entirely agree. But catching up intelligence problem is much more difficult to solve unlike pathfinding for which there are ready solutions. You should take into account animal speed and warm up time and let pawns place themselves at distance where animal cannot run away before shot is made. Most of the time this tactic will place pawn too close to be save enough, so you should make a compromise or take animal moving direction in consideration. Or maybe you should let pawn switch target to the nearest one every time previous target left shooting range. There is so much options, so I think whichever gamedevs choose there would be always someone who will not like the choice.
Quote from: Shurp on October 16, 2018, 06:37:47 AM
The dispenser turns 0.5 units of nutrition into 1.0. A cook turns 0.5 into 0.9. 0.1 nutrition isn't enough of a bonus in nutrition to seem worthwhile, not unless you're dumping haygrass in.
Your arithmetic is wrong. Dispenser turn 6 unit of ingredients with nutrition value of 0.30 into 1 meal that gives every pawn 0.75 nutrition on average unless you micromanage them to be ravenously hungry before eating. Thus 2.50 conversion factor. Cook turn 10 units of ingredients with nutrition value of 0.50 into 1 meal that also gives every pawn 0.75 nutrition. Thus 1.50 conversion factor. See, it's at 40% cheaper with dispenser and you can last at 67% longer.
Quote from: Shurp on October 16, 2018, 06:37:47 AM...the more colonists you have the less of an impact losing some to cooking is...
Totally agree. Also cooking train cooking skill and I like when every single person have every single skill at least at 10 value. So there was no irreplaceable person. It helps a lot in different situations. And at least 1 pawn should have 10 in cooking as butchering efficiency is 100% only if skill is 10 or more. Of cause if you doesn't let them have bionics or archotech hands.
Quote from: zizard on October 16, 2018, 05:04:24 AM
Hauling 6 corn to the prison dispenser uses the cooking job priority which is depressing. I don't even care if a hauler spends half the day doing that, but it ends up interrupting cooks other jobs since cooking has to be high priority. Should be under basic or haul. Or implement RSA......
Yeah, there is such a problem. I always solve it with zoning dispencers out and letting dogs haul.
And yeah, random scheduling algorithm is beautiful as dogs display.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 15, 2018, 10:15:43 PM
Exploiting AI mechanics is always an option, but generally people try to avoid needing that on any difficulty except Merciless.
Not at all off topic, nor a non sequitur (the topic is something being ridiculous due to the difficulty it poses) and it followed from him talking about how hard it is to hunt entire herds of caribou in the tundra.
The closest I got to ad hominem was a my cannibal/bloodlust inspired comment about what would happen if they got nutrient paste removed from the game. I blame RimWorld for that one, I recently clad one of my Bloodlust-ed (not-yet-nutrient-paste-eating) colonists in several articles of human leather clothing.
I never said anyone here was whining, though I heavily implied it. What I actually said was that whining does not help! Which is, in fact, true, and not at all offensive!
Difficulty where it is expected is not a game bug.
Note that the discussion of my post definitely is off topic, so I suggest we take this to PM after my response so as to not mess up the thread. Your poor grasp of the terms non sequitur and ad hominem made me grin a bit, though -- thanks.
I didn't suggest any exploits. Using doors for cover/pathing advantage is a core part of the game. The only coherent position that claims this "exploit" would wind up also concluding things like growing indoors to be an exploit, it's silly.
The cannibal/bloodlust thing is reasonably interpreted as a joke, I have no issue with that at all. It's the "implied" whining I consider an ad hominem in discussing these topics. It doesn't add anything to the point of either side, as language it's a tactic that seeks to trivialize/undermine the credibility of the other opinion without actually adding anything extra to demonstrate why the other opinion is mistaken.
My own position on this is different from OP's. I mostly dislike that hunting remains a choice between tedium (manual/draft + proper positioning, virtually no chance of accidents) and either losses or savescumming (letting pawns automatically hunt marked animals). Neither of these are palatable options to me, though I tend towards draft hunting regardless. On the highest difficulty there aren't any herd animals that can possibly match the threat of certain raid types within 1 year, but that still doesn't mean the interaction with hunting is in a good place...automation traps usually aren't.
QuoteYou just build additional stoves. As a Lost Tribe exclusive player, I always end up with 2 Fueled Stoves and the third or fourth are Electric Stoves.
Did something change very recently to nerf cooking speed? One fueled stove shouldn't have any issues keeping up with 10 pawns. I've had cooking time to spare with nearly 20 pawns using one electric stove. For those late game 40+ pawn Randy colonies I refuse to manage I could legit see the need for more.
Paste is pretty work efficient but the mood hit variance between fine meal and nutrient paste is pretty large. It's like playing with something worse than the pessimist trait constantly, for me this is hard to work around with the mood constraints on the highest difficulty. You need to block mental breaks regardless of the swing or paste becomes less efficient due to the breaks.
Wish you had actually taken this to PMs as I wrote, but I guess if you want to sidetrack, I can sidetrack too!
QuoteI didn't suggest any exploits.
No one said you did.
QuoteIt's the "implied" whining I consider an ad hominem in discussing these topics. It doesn't add anything to the point of either side, as language it's a tactic that seeks to trivialize/undermine the credibility of the other opinion without actually adding anything extra to demonstrate why the other opinion is mistaken.
Ad hominem as a term is clearly defined. You just don't know what it means. The same way you don't know what a non sequitur means. How about you lay off the Latin as a rhetorical tool while criticizing mine, as you don't seem to have a firm grasp? I still fail to see the "hostility" in saying something is whining. I whine about my chocolate trees being destroyed by cold. Everybody whines about something.
QuoteDid something change very recently to nerf cooking speed? One fueled stove shouldn't have any issues keeping up with 10 pawns. I've had cooking time to spare with nearly 20 pawns using one electric stove. For those late game 40+ pawn Randy colonies I refuse to manage I could legit see the need for more.
If you're mentioning "recent changes" why not mention which version your magic trick is on as well? I think it's highly unlikely you'll have a colony reliably making 40+ meals a day without mods, unless you whip your cook half to death. When you play with mods, a lot of things change, like the efficiency of cooking (a lot of people use the "make 4 at a time" mod, which saves a ridiculous amount of time).
It sounds to me like you are using a lot of mods. 1 stove and 20 people is completely unfeasible unless you want the colonists to take raw food to inventory and eat it on missions.
QuotePaste is pretty work efficient but the mood hit variance between fine meal and nutrient paste is pretty large. It's like playing with something worse than the pessimist trait constantly, for me this is hard to work around with the mood constraints on the highest difficulty. You need to block mental breaks regardless of the swing or paste becomes less efficient due to the breaks.
I think you meant difference, not variance, though the attempt at seeming more knowledgeable than you actually are is noted. I recommend dictionary.com as a way of not misleading people with your words.
On the highest difficulty, nutrient paste offers no real disadvantages beyond the value it adds to the colony, because the time you gain for recreation and other work tasks more than compensates. That is to say past the point where you need to spend a lot of time on it every day, which is about 8 colonists.
Fine meals requires you to have access to meat on a constant basis, which requires a freezer for a large colony, which means you need to dedicate space, time, material and energy to it. These things can be better spent making drugs, growing cloth for bulk sale (no processing), or creating artworks you can smash up and put all around your colony.
Quote from: B@R5uk on October 15, 2018, 04:42:54 AM
Quote from: Scavenger on October 14, 2018, 11:18:32 PM
Ive never used nutrient paste either, remove!
No way!!! How will I feed my pack of dromdaries with elephant meat paste?!
You know that's how they get mad elephant disease right..?
Quote from: fritzgryphon on October 15, 2018, 12:00:51 PM
Manhunter them with mortars. Greet them in your kill box.
Hallelujah it's raining death!
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on October 15, 2018, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 14, 2018, 05:50:26 AM
Nutrient paste is basically a necessity past 8 pawns, it becomes way too tedious to maintain a decent amount of meals.
You just build additional stoves. As a Lost Tribe exclusive player, I always end up with 2 Fueled Stoves and the third or fourth are Electric Stoves.
I just use that meals mod.. you just make four meals at a time with four times the ingredients instead of one, to cut down on the amount of trips running back and forth. Balanced and a great Improvement.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 12:14:51 AM
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on October 15, 2018, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 14, 2018, 05:50:26 AM
Nutrient paste is basically a necessity past 8 pawns, it becomes way too tedious to maintain a decent amount of meals.
You just build additional stoves. As a Lost Tribe exclusive player, I always end up with 2 Fueled Stoves and the third or fourth are Electric Stoves.
I find I can go up to about 15 or so with a single stove, though that cook is almost relegated to the kitchen full time when not sleeping or playing. That's 30 fine meals in the 10 or so hours I make them work or 3 meals an hour. Which seems a bit ridiculous but hey it is what it is. I guess most of that is travel time even tough all the ingredients are on hand, and plus there's walking to and from the kitchen.
Once I start falling behind on meals I usually just decide who's the other cook and move them to the night shift. I used to make 2 stoves but then realized they were sitting idle for over half the day.
Feed the colonists mod cuts down hard on the walking time for ingredients! And it's balanced. And should probably be in the vanilla game.
QuoteNo one said you did.
True, you didn't explicitly mention what I said as exploiting the AI. If that isn't the assertion being made then there are numerous early-game safe methods to handle herd revenge that don't "exploit AI" regardless of difficulty.
QuoteIf you're mentioning "recent changes" why not mention which version your magic trick is on as well? I think it's highly unlikely you'll have a colony reliably making 40+ meals a day without mods, unless you whip your cook half to death.
Earlier 1.0, vanilla. I've been gone a month or two, no-lifing dungeon crawl stone soup for gaming mostly.
Anyway I'm going to assume vanilla unless someone designates they're using a mod. Likewise, for the purposes of this discussion (and in general with me) if I'm not mentioning a mod that alters gameplay I don't have one active.
In 1.0 as of ~6-8 weeks ago using work shifts and either hauler animals or people to haul you could have 1 stove cover not just 15-20 pawns but heavily overcook meal counts, assuming electric stove by then (even as tribal you generally would).
QuoteI think you meant difference, not variance, though the attempt at seeming more knowledgeable than you actually are is noted. I recommend dictionary.com as a way of not misleading people with your words.
More ad hominem (directing discussion at a person rather than the argument, which implying someone is "whining" also does). I'm not misleading anybody either, a simple look at dictionary.com confirms my usage appropriate. There's no need to be hostile, and there's no reason to infer I meant mean square deviation in this context (which is the 3rd definition).
It isn't trivial to combine even two alternative sources of mood boosts to gain a +9 mood improvement, not for the cost of securing two food sources and cooking. In contrast, it's not that hard to haul large animals into a relatively small freezer and allow butchering as needed.
Unfortunately force to use wiki because I'm not at the rimputer, but it says fine meals take 8 work, and with 1000 seconds in a day theoretically a single stove can make over 100 meals a day so 40 seems plausible.
Quote from: B@R5uk on October 16, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 02:35:44 AM
...as in 1.0 it's reportedly been removed as a mechanic...
No, it still works.
Oh cool. Though I recall distinctly Tynan mentioning that it was part of fixing something else. Maybe he undid that fix or found a way to do the fix while keeping the stool mechanic.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 09:16:57 PM
Quote from: B@R5uk on October 16, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 16, 2018, 02:35:44 AM
...as in 1.0 it's reportedly been removed as a mechanic...
No, it still works.
Oh cool. Though I recall distinctly Tynan mentioning that it was part of fixing something else. Maybe he undid that fix or found a way to do the fix while keeping the stool mechanic.
Or just use feed the colonists.. prevent you from having to have yet another colonists constantly haul resources over to that spot as often.
Quote from: Scavenger on October 16, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
Or just use feed the colonists.. prevent you from having to have yet another colonists constantly haul resources over to that spot as often.
I tend to avoid mods that change gameplay. Especially those that change it to make it easier. I have to very strongly disagree with a design choice by the devs to mod it out and in this case... I don't think it's a problem. Less than that. I don't think about it unless I'm on the forum and see others talking about it.
See... Im exactly the same way. I refuse to use any mods unless I think they are very well-balanced, I hate anything that makes the game easier. But this one does seem balanced, and it's something I think should be in the actual game itself, as forcing one or a lot of Pawns to do nothing but cook 24/7 isn't exactly fun. I think it takes away from gameplay. At least this way they can stretch their legs every once in awhile or get a full night's sleep or even use one of their other skills instead of just slaving away. And it stops you from having to use that stupid mechanic exploit of stacking food on a stool next to your cook, which I think is far more annoying than using a mod haha. Bunch of more microing.
QuoteUnfortunately force to use wiki because I'm not at the rimputer, but it says fine meals take 8 work, and with 1000 seconds in a day theoretically a single stove can make over 100 meals a day so 40 seems plausible.
Simple meals are 5 work and they still take too much time. You have to carry stuff as well, and remember that you only have about 10-ish effective work hours to begin with (lest your colonists break from lack of recreation and sleep in a matter of days). So you have 417 seconds a day if your "1000 seconds in 24 hours" thing is correct. Assuming it takes about a second to carry stuff per meal and something like 5 seconds to cook for an average chef under good circumstances, that's 6 seconds per simple meal. In theory I suppose that yes, one colonist can sustain about 20-30 colonists assuming nothing ever happens to the chef and that the supply line is perfect.
For fine meals it's about 9 seconds since you have to estimate around a second to get the meals. That means 46ish meals per day which is enough for ... maybe 20 colonists.
This is all if you have access to food on a consistent basis, and aren't running to a freezer constantly to obtain food.
It also doesn't take into account the work cost of food poisoning, which is immense.
I just have found another hunting problem. As before it's pack hunting. Hunter goes, shoots one animal to the pain collapse, then goes and cuts the neck. But there is no spot to store the corpse, so he leaves it laying on the ground and ATTENTION! starts shooting next target right away in the middle of the pack. Of course he will get murdered once animals decide it's too brass of an act.
I think that hunting as it is now isn't supposed to be automatic. Current mechanic helps a lot to reduce player input but hunting should still be manual in most cases.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 17, 2018, 05:30:18 AM
QuoteUnfortunately force to use wiki because I'm not at the rimputer, but it says fine meals take 8 work, and with 1000 seconds in a day theoretically a single stove can make over 100 meals a day so 40 seems plausible.
Simple meals are 5 work and they still take too much time. You have to carry stuff as well, and remember that you only have about 10-ish effective work hours to begin with (lest your colonists break from lack of recreation and sleep in a matter of days). So you have 417 seconds a day if your "1000 seconds in 24 hours" thing is correct. Assuming it takes about a second to carry stuff per meal and something like 5 seconds to cook for an average chef under good circumstances, that's 6 seconds per simple meal. In theory I suppose that yes, one colonist can sustain about 20-30 colonists assuming nothing ever happens to the chef and that the supply line is perfect.
For fine meals it's about 9 seconds since you have to estimate around a second to get the meals. That means 46ish meals per day which is enough for ... maybe 20 colonists.
This is all if you have access to food on a consistent basis, and aren't running to a freezer constantly to obtain food.
It also doesn't take into account the work cost of food poisoning, which is immense.
I meant a single stove with rotating chefs all day.
Quote from: B@R5uk on October 17, 2018, 05:38:42 AM
I just have found another hunting problem. As before it's pack hunting. Hunter goes, shoots one animal to the pain collapse, then goes and cuts the neck. But there is no spot to store the corpse, so he leaves it laying on the ground and ATTENTION! starts shooting next target right away in the middle of the pack. Of course he will get murdered once animals decide it's too brass of an act.
I think that hunting as it is now isn't supposed to be automatic. Current mechanic helps a lot to reduce player input but hunting should still be manual in most cases.
Yeah I only really auto hunt when people are starting to idle, for xp and to waste time. I designate to hunt harmless stuff using sniper rifles lol.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on October 17, 2018, 05:30:18 AM
QuoteUnfortunately force to use wiki because I'm not at the rimputer, but it says fine meals take 8 work, and with 1000 seconds in a day theoretically a single stove can make over 100 meals a day so 40 seems plausible.
Simple meals are 5 work and they still take too much time. You have to carry stuff as well, and remember that you only have about 10-ish effective work hours to begin with (lest your colonists break from lack of recreation and sleep in a matter of days). So you have 417 seconds a day if your "1000 seconds in 24 hours" thing is correct. Assuming it takes about a second to carry stuff per meal and something like 5 seconds to cook for an average chef under good circumstances, that's 6 seconds per simple meal. In theory I suppose that yes, one colonist can sustain about 20-30 colonists assuming nothing ever happens to the chef and that the supply line is perfect.
For fine meals it's about 9 seconds since you have to estimate around a second to get the meals. That means 46ish meals per day which is enough for ... maybe 20 colonists.
This is all if you have access to food on a consistent basis, and aren't running to a freezer constantly to obtain food.
It also doesn't take into account the work cost of food poisoning, which is immense.
If you'd construct a second stove you'd need a second colonist to work it anyway. It makes more sense to first put a 2nd cook on the first stove on night shift. This is also true for other work stations of course.
My initial surprise was aimed more at players saying they build multiple stoves on relatively small colonies. At least with the nutrient paste you are making a tangible tradeoff (weaker mood for more productivity by allocating cook and some hauler labor elsewhere). I don't like this trade, because you wind up allocating significant labor into other sources of mood regardless and a 9 point swing is large, but at least it makes sense sometimes.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 16, 2018, 10:42:51 AM
Did something change very recently to nerf cooking speed? One fueled stove shouldn't have any issues keeping up with 10 pawns. I've had cooking time to spare with nearly 20 pawns using one electric stove. For those late game 40+ pawn Randy colonies I refuse to manage I could legit see the need for more.
My first game with Version 1.0, set to all standard configurations saw 13 pawns of which half of them lost a limb (I made several reports on the "finished product" thread) and it just happened that those with passion in cooking also had other passions on their character sheet, so I needed them out of the kitchen as fast as possible so they would perform other jobs as well. This game had no colonists proficient in Research as I don't re-roll for a Dream Team and go with the ones that pop first, not even selecting among the Left Behind. Mechanoids came in at a normal game rate but my colony was way behind in technology.
What changed is that now everything hits harder, you can even see a turtle outmatch a panther, because Tynan knows "balancing" very well.
That first run was already left as "finished" once I researched Fabrication and again...had very little rare mineral resources....which again...I mentioned before in the V1.0 thread.
Now I'm on a third game but this time in Arid Shrubland and larger map and see more rare minerals but again... I still think Tynan messed up the resources too badly, most notably the removal from temporary maps, making caravanning even more useless than ever...but now I drift to other topics that are not related to the subject.
This has nothing to do with the topic lol. And yet more of your usual mostly baseless complaining. I've done just fine in the same situation, even starting as tribal. Sometimes you're unlucky but strategy removes many risks. Just gotta use your head.