fast enough... I should say - how are they changing clothes in time for a raid? I am using the awesome better pawn control and get up and go mods, but by the time my pawns have changed from normal outfits into battle gear the enemy is all over my base. It just takes way too long.
Am I missing something? Does everyone just leave their people in full battle gear all the time?
And can get rid of the mods too, 2 birds W 1 stone
I don't. Everybody wears armor or good "armor clothes" all the time.
Seeing as it takes about an in-game hour to change, this appears to be the expected play-style by the developers.
Always battlegear.
Try changing clothes during a drop pod raid.
I guess to get your expensive stuff used up faster.
I play with 5 different apparel settings.
Default: Whatever you want to use.
Medics: Lightweight clothing for speed.
Recruiter: Exclusively wears a bowler hat over any helmet.
Melee: Plate armor, slow but mostly used for finishers, since the enemies will be wounded, they should catch up their targets.
Ranged: Best armor.
Of course, there always will be variations depending on each pawns specifically, but most of my Medics are usually the useless melees followed by wimps, IoV or very bad shooters, trigger-happy. So when a raid arrives, I set my Medics into "Home" zone or "Hospital" depending on game progress as I'm a Lost Tribe exclusive player in Vanilla. And of course, the Medics "are" actually those characters with either of their passions.
Since the game is still UNBALANCED in hundreds of ways, I still defend with Shooters only. Which reminds me of:
Quote from: Tynan on December 21, 2017, 03:47:00 AM
[...]
Realism concerns aside, I want melee and ranged combat to be viable on both attack and defense. For example, I basically never see players go all melee, and it would be cool if that was at least something that a few people did.
Remember when Tynan said in https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37701.0 that he would make melee viable again...
...well in v1.0... firearms now have "stopping power"... Can anyone explain how this new feature actually "makes sense" in Tynan's mind ??????????
...so...going back to the opening post...
Instead of making your colonists change clothing every time that the battle horn sounds... I just have the people categorized by "job" type.
And most importantly...
Tip 1: I build my bedrooms on the side that is close to the map edges.
Tip 2: I assign bedrooms so that the combat oriented pawns can reach my city walls asap while leaving the bad in combat and doctors closer to the Hospital.
Melee has it's uses, lancers and raiders with guns are totally helpless againts them, you just got to be carefull for that other lancer or raider.
Drops pods can be surrounded with melee with attack animals.
Or in my current story:
During a toxic fallout, battle horn, siege.
All I had was a mortar stolen from an outpost and three incendiary shells.
We fired all of them, all missed, but the fires kept them busy.
Eventually they went to sleep, we grabbed every melee weapon we could find and sneaked our way in.
7 of us vs 8 of them, all we lost was a toe, they lost all of their members. Toxic fallout did help out a little.
Two of them were equipped with bolt action, all i had was some recurve bows and two shotguns, on a flat map with hardly any cover approaching their camp, good luck.
Shooters can shoot and retreat, melee is always committed, if you cant retreat you have a problem. Late game tribal hordes, no place for melee, even with animals it becomes messy.
Note that playing with a larger map helps. But unless you're playing with test mode gigantic maps, you're generally going to have to keep your armor on all the time.
Bonus: since armor is much less effective now, you often don't need to bother. Just make sure they always have armor vests on, don't bother with pants/helmets/etc. Unless you've gotten to marine armor.
In vanilla I keep armor on all the time.
If you want to switch then "Change Dresser Mod" lets you switch instantly when drafted:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41483.msg408919#msg408919
Quote from: Shurp on November 19, 2018, 06:59:47 AM
Note that playing with a larger map helps. But unless you're playing with test mode gigantic maps, you're generally going to have to keep your armor on all the time.
Bonus: since armor is much less effective now, you often don't need to bother. Just make sure they always have armor vests on, don't bother with pants/helmets/etc. Unless you've gotten to marine armor.
I'm am still very confused by this. Are you saying Devilstrand pants are as good as armor pants if you're wearing an armor vest? Also, nothing on the head at all? Or do you mean any kind of hat is as good as a helmet? I've seen this talked about a but before and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.
Hm. May be slow change is the reason why devs disabled utility deterioration of apparel with health?
Quote from: jpinard on November 19, 2018, 11:19:39 AM
I'm am still very confused by this. Are you saying Devilstrand pants are as good as armor pants if you're wearing an armor vest? Also, nothing on the head at all? Or do you mean any kind of hat is as good as a helmet? I've seen this talked about a but before and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.
I'm saying that Devilstrand pants are as useless as armor pants and no pants at all. Likewise helmets. Oh, sure, that advanced helmet of yours has a 40% chance of being useful, but that's a 60% chance of being useless.
By contrast, flak vests are actually useful. Wear them. Wear them all the time.
Marine armor is tricky one. It can be useful. But it often isn't. And when you consider how much it increases the value of your colony, it's probably not worth it. Find a mod with better guns and trade your armor for more firepower. The best defense is a good offense :)
Quote from: Shurp on November 19, 2018, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: jpinard on November 19, 2018, 11:19:39 AM
I'm am still very confused by this. Are you saying Devilstrand pants are as good as armor pants if you're wearing an armor vest? Also, nothing on the head at all? Or do you mean any kind of hat is as good as a helmet? I've seen this talked about a but before and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.
I'm saying that Devilstrand pants are as useless as armor pants and no pants at all. Likewise helmets. Oh, sure, that advanced helmet of yours has a 40% chance of being useful, but that's a 60% chance of being useless.
By contrast, flak vests are actually useful. Wear them. Wear them all the time.
Marine armor is tricky one. It can be useful. But it often isn't. And when you consider how much it increases the value of your colony, it's probably not worth it. Find a mod with better guns and trade your armor for more firepower. The best defense is a good offense :)
I would love it if someone modded this issue so it makes sense.
BTW - what type of damage is bullets? Sharp? Also, what type of damage is grenades? Is that sharp or blunt?
Quote from: jpinard on November 20, 2018, 12:07:02 PM
I would love it if someone modded this issue so it makes sense.
BTW - what type of damage is bullets? Sharp? Also, what type of damage is grenades? Is that sharp or blunt?
Bullets are sharp. I'm not sure about grenades, but I would guess they are sharp too (tiny chunks of steel).
Reverting armor to B18 behavior would require code modding, which I don't know how to do. But raid threat has been seriously scaled back since B18 so running around with just flak vests is pretty viable. Treat any serious injuries you get as "storytelling" and motivation to research bionics.
I don't understand how melee is not viable. It's even more viable here than before, because armor matters a heck lot more.
Anyway, I don't. I can't be bothered to change clothing all the time. With the exception of maybe power armor early game, people wear whatever they want and my heavy hitters wear plate/marine armor when there's a horde of squirrels or something.
I almost never have my colonists out of armor, takes too long to put it on and too much micro for 12+ colonists to have to change into. It's manageable when you are going to attack and you are in a caravan or you have only 3-5 pawns.
But once you hit 10+ generally everyone gets armor of some sort and only the best shooters get the best armor, or a very important specific colonist.
I thought melee was op. My uranium mace brawlers can down any non-centipede enemy in 1-3 hits. I find melee pawns crucial for protecting your ranged pawns and drawing fire from enemies especially from large number of centipedes.
I always keep my pawns equipped otherwise they can't deal with drop raids. Imo covering your pawns with every article of clothing available is crucial. However most weapons have at least something like 15% penetration which does negates a lot of the armor. But I'll take mitigating 1/5 hits(rolled once for each article of clothing over a part) over nothing.
Quote from: pllovervoltage on November 22, 2018, 09:23:21 AM
I thought melee was op. My uranium mace brawlers can down any non-centipede enemy in 1-3 hits. I find melee pawns crucial for protecting your ranged pawns and drawing fire from enemies especially from large number of centipedes.
I always keep my pawns equipped otherwise they can't deal with drop raids. Imo covering your pawns with every article of clothing available is crucial. However most weapons have at least something like 15% penetration which does negates a lot of the armor. But I'll take mitigating 1/5 hits(rolled once for each article of clothing over a part) over nothing.
Are you saying clothing again is better odds, or are you referencing armor too?
What is the best melee weapon (and metal type of that weapon) to use against mechs?
Quote from: pllovervoltage on November 22, 2018, 09:23:21 AM
But I'll take mitigating 1/5 hits(rolled once for each article of clothing over a part) over nothing.
But at what cost?
If an article of clothing/armor protects your colonists 20% of the time, but increases the strength of the threats you face by 25%, you're actually worse off than you were before. I really can't imagine devilstrand is worth it anymore. Flak vests of course still are (they're cheap and highly effective). Power armor... maybe, but I doubt it.
Quote from: Shurp on November 25, 2018, 04:44:28 PM
Quote from: pllovervoltage on November 22, 2018, 09:23:21 AM
But I'll take mitigating 1/5 hits(rolled once for each article of clothing over a part) over nothing.
But at what cost?
If an article of clothing/armor protects your colonists 20% of the time, but increases the strength of the threats you face by 25%, you're actually worse off than you were before. I really can't imagine devilstrand is worth it anymore. Flak vests of course still are (they're cheap and highly effective). Power armor... maybe, but I doubt it.
I don't think comparing percentages of blocking x% shots with x% increase raid size is a meaningful comparison. However if you want to compare this way.
A full excellent quality devilstrand set of clothes costs 1700ish silver. Rounding up to 2000ish silver it translates to 20 raid points per colonists you decide to outfit with devilstrand or 50ish points if you equip with power set. What % increase this results in the increase in the size of your raid is highly dependent on your savefile however if you were completely naked with no clothes and no base and compared to fully equipping with a power armor set would increase the raid size by 100%. A devilstrand set would increase raid size by 50%. These are the
absolute worst case scenarios. The larger your base the lower these percent increases are.
Now saying that this % increase in raid size somehow translated to a direct % linear increase in num shots (which would mean terrible strategy)
Devilstrand Set
(1+50% # shots) * (1-(40% armor-20% normal industrial weapon armor penetration))= 20% increase in # shots against your colonists
(1+50% # shots) * (1-(40% armor-50% masterwork charge lance armor penetration))= 50% increase in # shots against your colonists (making sure ap doesn't go below 0)
Power Set
(1+100% # shots) * (1-(100% normal quality power set armor-50% masterwork charge lance armor penetration)) = 0% increase in # shots against your colonists
I just gave the worst off possible scenario (even compared with raiders max possible armor penetration) getting nums i don't think mean much in the end but for what these numbers are worth.. Power armor (in a ranged situation) is always worth even in the worst conditions. Devilstrand set would increase num of shots by 50% or 20% (basically more vs stronger enemies and less vs weaker enemies which makes sense).
So it would seem that devilstrand seems non beneficial but that would be analyzing the data wrong. Whatever you do base wealth and thus raid power increases over time regardless of the extent you minimize it. Lower armor clothing has the best value in the early game but its value goes down as enemy armor penetration goes up. Any value put anywhere else but clothes works against you and rather than trying to save wealth in clothes, you would get better return in investing in combat with the best and most armor you can to counter the increasing raid strength and armor penetration. Investment in clothes rather seems to counter the increase in raid size from base wealth.
Quote from: jpinard on November 25, 2018, 02:28:36 PM
Quote from: pllovervoltage on November 22, 2018, 09:23:21 AM
I thought melee was op. My uranium mace brawlers can down any non-centipede enemy in 1-3 hits. I find melee pawns crucial for protecting your ranged pawns and drawing fire from enemies especially from large number of centipedes.
I always keep my pawns equipped otherwise they can't deal with drop raids. Imo covering your pawns with every article of clothing available is crucial. However most weapons have at least something like 15% penetration which does negates a lot of the armor. But I'll take mitigating 1/5 hits(rolled once for each article of clothing over a part) over nothing.
Are you saying clothing again is better odds, or are you referencing armor too?
What is the best melee weapon (and metal type of that weapon) to use against mechs?
I'm saying clothes are worth.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/9k0kn1/dev_mode_weapon_testing_plasteel_longsword_vs/
Is a nice post comparing the uranium mace and plasteel longswords. Mechs, esp centipede, have much sharp armor than blunt armor and so I expected that uranium mace to be the best weapon vs centipedes. However according to this post mace beat longsword in most scenarios but longsword actually beats mace in centipedes. I've been sticking to uranium mace however.
Melee is kind of even OP if you have people with 'tought' trait and can fit them with exellent or better devilstrand and plate armor together with power armor helmet. Give them a uranium mace and they become beasts. They can literally hold entire infestations back on their own in a narrow corridors. They are that powerful! They will get in a disadvantage when faced against alot of guns tho as the knockback effect keeps them from moving when there are alot of guns firing at them, so best to use them in enclosed spaces where not everything in the raid can aim at them at the same time. They are like spartans holding the line while your colonists at the back rain hell on the enemy.