So far since I've gotten the game, every second Cassandra Classic raid has had five raiders, three of whom have M-24s. I assume this is the new sniper squad or whatever that was added, but seriously, it's a bit much for a situation in which you can only have two pistols at max unless you buy from a combat trader. It takes two hits to kill one of my colonists and three to destroy a turret, and they can do it from out of the turret range.
This hasn't been a one-time thing either, it's literally every time. First raid is normal, I get a longer-than-usual pause, and then Sniper Squad shows up, kills my colonists and torches the place. I could handle even five normal raiders, but when three of them are nigh-untouchable because they can decimate my people from outside of their firing range, it gets kind of ridiculous.
Anyways, I figured I'd post here to make sure it wasn't just this happening to me and to get some tips on how to deal with them, short of just 'Hope a combat trader shows up and you can afford a good weapon' (Because I'm not even sure that would work).
thats sound very unusual for cassandra... the raider waves always ramped up gently during my tests... always starting at 1, then progressing to 2-3 for a few waves... then on to 5, and so forth...
you're absolutely sure you arent playing tough kassandra? ;)
Quote from: SteveAdamo on November 04, 2013, 09:19:30 PM
thats sound very unusual for cassandra... the raider waves always ramped up gently during my tests... always starting at 1, then progressing to 2-3 for a few waves... then on to 5, and so forth...
you're absolutely sure you arent playing tough kassandra? ;)
This. I really never had a problem with Raiders until later in the game. Or when I'm playing on random.
Yeah, I'm sure.
On reloading an autosave of a Sniper Squad attack, I ended up with a more manageable second raid. Still, though, I think just the idea that the sniper raider group can spawn on a second wave, of all things, needs to be looked at one more time.
gonna go with OP here, started a few games, learning, first serious game ended with 6 man raider squad versus my 4. All 6 we had m-24s , this was the 8th day
2nd game, same thing, 8 day mark, 5 man sniper squad wipes my colony out
3rd game, errr this is deja-vu
also, the eclipse event is a killer, it basically means you MUST have a thermal generator near your starting site or you should reload the map
Quote from: DeltaV on November 04, 2013, 09:25:19 PM
On reloading an autosave of a Sniper Squad attack
if you have that save game, feel free to attach it... might just shed some light! :)
Quote from: SteveAdamo on November 04, 2013, 09:28:35 PM
Quote from: DeltaV on November 04, 2013, 09:25:19 PM
On reloading an autosave of a Sniper Squad attack
if you have that save game, feel free to attach it... might just shed some light! :)
Sadly, autosave has saved over it. I have the save game that I reloaded, which seems to be acting normally now; I got four raiders with one Lee-Enfield, a pistol and two uzis, and then five with some uzis and pistols.
Also I can't find where save files are stored on Mac
I played an older version before and raiders were really weak in the beginning (as they should be) but now with the 2.50 version released for the backers theyre much stronger, my first wave had laser rifles and m24s.
Anyways, you can still beat them, get a thermal generator and harvest alot of metal soon so you can get some turrets and a walled in killing ground, so the m24 guys have to go into turret range to get annihilated.
Example =) (i cant find spoilers so its gonna stay that big, cba to reupload)
And yes, im aware that my first 2 turret rows are suspectible to a horrible chain reaction, but the raiders never get past the front turrets so i didnt change it afterwards. Also, this game really needs an incinerator for bodies ^^
(http://imageshack.us/a/img19/5613/9zb1.jpg)
I'm going to rebalance the raiders a tad. The sniper squad is a bit OP at the moment.
I just played my first game and the first raid was 1 raider, then I had a long break with some lightning storms and boom rats, and the game just ended with the uber squad killing everyone. As mentioned I had two pistols for the defense, and my only chance was to bum rush people in melee once they went down.
Super excited to play the game for the first time, and even enjoyed losing everyone. I learned a long time ago that, "losing is fun!"
I just lost my colony to the second raid that had snipers, I had around 15 turrets and mines and 3 or so pistols. You cant do much against the snipers with pistols :(.
Quote from: Tynan on November 04, 2013, 10:00:29 PM
I'm going to rebalance the raiders a tad. The sniper squad is a bit OP at the moment.
I think all you really need to do is implement a "full cover" system, where characters who are not in range of any enemies at all "duck behind" sandbags and the like and become un-hittable until the cover is destroyed. This would also make frags and molotovs more useful and enable characters to "cover hop" until shorter range weapons are in range.
Quote from: zalak on November 04, 2013, 11:12:23 PM
I just lost my colony to the second raid that had snipers, I had around 15 turrets and mines and 3 or so pistols. You cant do much against the snipers with pistols :(.
Build proper defences (walls are cheap) to make the snipers come into turret/pistol range.
I've discovered a rather horrifyingly effective tactic. The enemy are rather stupid. By which I mean they love to seek cover.
They just don't seem bright enough to get the picture that a series of sandbag bunkers set up to be perfect for shooting INTO my base might JUST be a trap... Not even when they've seen two of said bunkers go up in a flash of light and heat in the course of one battle.
What would be nice would be a kind of range estimator, the way selecting a gun turret or mining 'splosive does. So you could select a gun you know, and see its range at the cursor or a place you designate.
had 4 settlers, with 2 pistols between them, The AI decided it will rush me with 8 guys , armed with uzis and lee enfield. I dont know what magical trick you guys have but this is on the 5th day
I'm guessing the number of raiders has most to do with turrets. I'm on day 60, 10 settlers and two turrets. I never get a raid with more than 9. I also don't get any trade ships either. :\
This is happening consistently to me as well on regular Cassandra. The first raid is the standard 1 guy with a pistol, then the second raid is 3 snipers with M24's plus one or two guys with other weapons. The snipers slaughter me again and again since I have at max 2 pistols unless I get very lucky with traders, and they outrange everything I can set up by such a wide margin.
Quote from: nomadseifer on November 05, 2013, 11:47:16 AM
I'm guessing the number of raiders has most to do with turrets. I'm on day 60, 10 settlers and two turrets. I never get a raid with more than 9. I also don't get any trade ships either. :\
Is anybody else having this?
I'm on day 98, and I'm getting
non-stop raiders. I barely have time to get the last batch buried before the next ones show up. I finally beat a prisoner to death (the guy who killed the second to last of my founding three, I had him set to vicious beatings and was planning to sell him to a trade ship) because no traders showed up!
Honestly, at this point, it really is just becoming a tower defense game with finite resources on the map. I'm not getting any chance to build, not getting any chance to trade.
I think Cassandra might be broken.
Please Guys i can understand your anger. I think i have started over 15 games i came not over day 10^^ But please remember its a PRE-ALPHA! i mean i not a alpha or a beta this is a very EARLY game and everything can be changed. So please dont get mad give that man a change to handle it. I play the same game than you and i fail enough but every time i faild i learn more.
And i believe that game will be balanced right and than we all can have more fun :)
Hehe, i was just about to start a thread about those damn M-24's. On first though these problems are weird, because the youtube builds seem so balanced, but i think tynan just wanted to put in a bunch of new features (Which he did) and they just aren't balanced yet. The Sniper Squad is the best example, because currently there is just no way to fight an enemy that outranges you.
And even with the skewed balance, the game is still really fun.
Quote from: Grimreaper1704 on November 05, 2013, 04:07:27 PM
Please Guys i can understand your anger. I think i have started over 15 games i came not over day 10^^ But please remember its a PRE-ALPHA! i mean i not a alpha or a beta this is a very EARLY game and everything can be changed. So please dont get mad give that man a change to handle it. I play the same game than you and i fail enough but every time i faild i learn more.
And i believe that game will be balanced right and than we all can have more fun :)
I don't thing anyone here is hating on the game or getting seriously mad at Tynan or anything. This is just criticism of the balance. Some may write their posts in an angry way, but that's just how things go, when you just got killed of for the 5th time by a damn sniper squad before writing you post.
We all know it's a pre - alpha and we all know it's going to be fixed.
the thing is it does not have to be even m-24s, latest game, 8 raiders vs 4 settlers and 4 turrets. My best weapon were pistols and they had UZIs but mainly pistols. Despite funnelling them down a kill corridor, all 8 raiders burst volley the turrets down. The reason ? they all had 11-15 shooting skill while my turrets missed most of their shots. So they rushed us down, taking all turrets and all the settlers down with 1 surviving raider . This was day 6.
anyone got any help ?
Hahaha, I actually had a few fun moments when they showed up with the sniper rifles. The best way of dealing with them is to simply build walls and an "open room" ie. a room without any doors to block movements. The raiders will then walk into said room and into range of your own colonists. See attachment (where Mayo and Middleton is standing). I had to abandon this colony because it's too easy to defend with minimal effort. It simply stopped being fun.
Cassandra is quite difficult to run with but Tough Kassandra is even more brutal. The problem I'm having there is that the colonists' need for food is incredibly difficult to satisfy. At least in the beginning where you have so few colonists to harvest crops.
And I would like to chant the motto of Dwarf Fortress: Losing is fun! (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Fun)
[attachment deleted by admin: too old]
I'm going to rebalance the game and make sure these advanced enemies don't show up too early. Internal testing didn't show this imbalance, otherwise I would have corrected it. Pre-alpha, guys - working on it!
Quote from: Tynan on November 05, 2013, 07:21:34 PM
I'm going to rebalance the game and make sure these advanced enemies don't show up too early. Internal testing didn't show this imbalance, otherwise I would have corrected it. Pre-alpha, guys - working on it!
i take full blame for this folks... send all hate mail my way... ;)
I've actually found that, if you can survive tough kassandra's normal big groups with non-M24 weapons, she doesn't seem to throw M24s at you very often. In addition to that, she doesn't seem to have the no traders glitch either.
I rush the sniper squads personally, seeing as if you get them in close range they are useless.
I only have really played once so far and still going and have a hundred dead raiders but havent seen an all sniper squad yet.
But I have noticed a few things, the raiders wont stop to shoot unless you have something in range of them. Turrets dont draw fire when powered down, so I usally keep mine always off and let the raiders get in close before I turn them on and the move my colonists in as well. Sure I lose turrets and colonists but so far been surviving.
I also made tunnels to be able to try to flank the enemy or when they land I move a few guys into a position where I can attack them from behind.
Yes I still lose folks now and then but so far after 60+ days I have everyone equipped with r4's m24's and some shotties, 12k cash, 2k food, 1.5k metal and now just doing scut work to keep colonists busy.
I guess with random tho I just havent had a overpowering raider squad at the beginning, but have had 3 times where they came when had those energy outages so no turrets to use at all, but then I dont fully rely on them as much as my colonists.
Honestly, I think the real issue is people aren't taking advantage of melee. Guys, if your are punching the guys with the M-16/24's they aren't shooting you. 10 dmg a hit is a lot better than 50-55.
Quote from: Pendryn on November 06, 2013, 02:13:29 AM
Honestly, I think the real issue is people aren't taking advantage of melee. Guys, if your are punching the guys with the M-16/24's they aren't shooting you. 10 dmg a hit is a lot better than 50-55.
And you can dogpile them!
There's a reason why my newer colonists tend to have a high attrition rate. ::)
Unless they happen to have the "Runner" trait, in which case they are treated as VIPs and elite troops whom I zealously guard from harm. Even if their skills suck.
You guys should never play DF. Defending a fort with a single Dwarf branding his own legs as weapons, now that's a difficult one to bounce back from!
I just faced a raid with 3 snipers. I ended quickly and badly for me. It would have been the 3rd attack on Cassandra classic.
All-Sniper raids are actually quite easy to kill. They path directly to your folks and will cheerfully walk into open corridors to do so. They will stop to bash open a door if there's an open path five feet away, though, so you need to set up some walls as baffles, preferably with sandbag waffles filling the baffle so they can't take cover at the corners of the baffle walls, and have your guys waiting on the inside of the wall. They come in and march right into a killbox.
Quote from: TripleZero on November 04, 2013, 09:59:10 PM
Also, this game really needs an incinerator for bodies ^^
You think ;D?
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2wr3qwy.jpg)
Fire does seem to incinerate rubbish, though. So far I've only seen it happen with lightning but I suppose throwing a few cocktails would do the same thing. I haven't tried it yet.
Screenshot from an older build
Quote from: Pendryn on November 06, 2013, 02:13:29 AM
Honestly, I think the real issue is people aren't taking advantage of melee. Guys, if your are punching the guys with the M-16/24's they aren't shooting you. 10 dmg a hit is a lot better than 50-55.
Do you have a specific strategy for this? Anytime I've rushed snipers, they've torn even medium-ish groups apart before they reach melee range.
Yeah, you've got to be able to get close to them obviously, so basically a wall situation that literally looks like:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZJbuqQg.png)
With your base being the top of this image, you can have one to three people literally wait behind that 2 spot wall and run out to melee as soon as a sniper arrives. Also the hiding wall can be any size but I recommend leaving the entrance at 2 spaces so your own gunners only have so many places to shoot at. Also watch out for friendly fire.
Quote from: Geest on November 06, 2013, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: TripleZero on November 04, 2013, 09:59:10 PM
Also, this game really needs an incinerator for bodies ^^
Fire does seem to incinerate rubbish, though. So far I've only seen it happen with lightning but I suppose throwing a few cocktails would do the same thing. I haven't tried it yet.
Better solution are some graves, so the colonist don't see dead bodys all the time. You can put fire at graves with molotows as well - it will leave empty graves, ready for new raider corpses.
Quote from: Rivare on November 07, 2013, 05:21:21 AM
Quote from: Geest on November 06, 2013, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: TripleZero on November 04, 2013, 09:59:10 PM
Also, this game really needs an incinerator for bodies ^^
Fire does seem to incinerate rubbish, though. So far I've only seen it happen with lightning but I suppose throwing a few cocktails would do the same thing. I haven't tried it yet.
Better solution are some graves, so the colonist don't see dead bodys all the time. You can put fire at graves with molotows as well - it will leave empty graves, ready for new raider corpses.
I think in his situation molotovs, incindiary launchers and grenades are the best options. The grenades are also usefull for clearing out any unwanted rubble.
Quote from: chaotix14 on November 07, 2013, 05:51:22 AM
Quote from: Rivare on November 07, 2013, 05:21:21 AM
Quote from: Geest on November 06, 2013, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: TripleZero on November 04, 2013, 09:59:10 PM
Also, this game really needs an incinerator for bodies ^^
Fire does seem to incinerate rubbish, though. So far I've only seen it happen with lightning but I suppose throwing a few cocktails would do the same thing. I haven't tried it yet.
Better solution are some graves, so the colonist don't see dead bodys all the time. You can put fire at graves with molotows as well - it will leave empty graves, ready for new raider corpses.
I think in his situation molotovs, incindiary launchers and grenades are the best options. The grenades are also usefull for clearing out any unwanted rubble.
I think he may be hoping that at some point, having to climb over a mountain of the dead who came before them would deter the raiders from any further attacks.
Sadly not, not unless Tynan institutes some sanity-checking as regards "do I really want to attack these maniacs, they're more violent and psychotic than I am!" for the raiders. But still, A for effort!
If you have any structures at all just go inside and wait for them to run up, then pop out and facerape em