Ludeon Forums

Description:
Realistic weapons makes weapons more realistic 8) by changing the weapons' attributes. Weapon damages have been increased significantly and is now based on weapon calibers. Weapons will now perform the best in their unique roles, while your battle rifles and machine guns may dominate the open fields, however, you'll find them having lots of difficulty fighting in close quarters and cramped areas against smaller and faster weapons such as the SMGs. You'll also find that weapons from different eras will perform very differently, that is because the weapons' clip sizes (salvo size),their ranges, and their fire rates are now based on real life values, while it is possible to take on modern weapons like the M16 and M24 with crossbows and thrown stones, it'll certainly be harder than what it used to be.
RECOMMENDED MAP SIZE IS BIG

Fortifications Mod Pack:
The fortifications mod pack adds Trenches, Barbed Wires, and Embrasures ( Credits to the Embrasures Mod Team ) (http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3961.0) for you to fortify your base.
- Trenches: A structure in the ground that costs 2 wood to build, significantly decreases the accuracy of incoming fire.
- Barbed Wires: A cheap to build structure that costs 1 metal, slows down the enemy, almost indestructible by bullets.
- Embrasures: A hole in the wall to allow your colonists to shoot through in the safety of their own homes.
- Tweaks: Reinforced Walls and Embrasures against bullet damage, they should hold up more realistically against swarms of bullets, however they are more vulnerable against explosives.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/downloads/1/75/74072/Preview_Big.1.png)


Screenshots:
(http://s9.postimg.org/to7199zy3/More_Miniguns.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/to7199zy3/)
Because your minigun needed a 3600 rpm and 600 rounds
More screenshots at ModDb (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/images)

Downloads:
Stand-Alone Version
(http://button.moddb.com/download/medium/73943.png) (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/downloads/realistic-weapons-stand-alone-version)

Realistic Weapons w/ Project Armory (http://goo.gl/2NwTO9) (http://goo.gl/umqj5H)
(http://button.moddb.com/download/medium/73945.png) (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/downloads/realistic-weapons-with-project-armory)

Realistic Weapons for Project Armory (http://goo.gl/2NwTO9) (http://goo.gl/umqj5H)
(http://button.moddb.com/download/medium/73944.png) (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/downloads/realistic-weapons-for-project-armory-215)

Fortifications Mod Pack (Alpha 7 Updated)
Warning: The Embrasures mod team have not completed updating to Alpha 7, some features and textures might be missing
(http://button.moddb.com/download/medium/74072.png) (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/downloads/fortifications-mod-pack)

WWII Weapons Pack
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/26/25759/WW2_Pack.png) (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/images)
Textures made by: [Viperlol] (http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=9096)
Weapons Added: (Already included in PA versions, not included in Stand Alone version)
- Sten SMG
- PIAT Launcher
- M1 Bazooka
- M1 Garand
- M1 Carbine
- Ppsh 41
- PPD 40
- M1919 Browning MMG
- MG 34
- MG 42
- Stg 44
- Stg 45
- Karabiner 98k
- Gewehr 43
- Tokarev TT30
- Wimmersperg Spz SMG

Grenades Pack - Merged Into Main Mod
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/26/25759/Banner.png) (http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-weapons-for-rimworld/downloads/grenades-add-on)

Tips and Hints:
- Weapon ranges are significantly longer, you have to be careful not to be outranged by the enemy!
- Weapons now have a very high damage, just taking a few gun shots could be fatal.
- Weapons with shorter ranges generally perform better at close ranges.
- Cover is very important, anyone out in the open is very vulnerable.
- Fortifications and Entrenchments are very important, a properly dug-in position can defend up to 10 times more attackers (The fortifications pack makes walls and embrasures a lot more resistant to bullet fire)
- Shotgun vs SMG? Both have the same aim time and reload times, and high end ones have a range of up to 30. SMGs have a way lower damage per shot, but they make it up with their higher fire rate and DPS, while shotguns have a very high damage per shot, but has a lower damage over time. Choose one that suits your play style.
- Enfilade fire ( firing from the enemy's sides ) is very effective, set up extra fortifications on your flanks
- Long range fire fights can draw out for a long time, don't be impatient and rush the enemy, it could be disastrous
- Tactics is the key to victory, remember to:
-    - Keep your colonists together in fire teams of 3 to 4, it helps to make sure you can rescue them in time and provide enough fire at the enemy.
-    - Spread out, don't keep all your colonists together or they'll get absolutely wrecked by a single salvo.
-    - Flanking the enemy is a very effective way to take them out, make sure you have enough hold the main line and switch fire to the other end when your flanking force sweeps in.
-    - Micromanaging Cross fire with machineguns can be very deadly.
- Combined arms is very important, be sure to have the right weapon for the right place. An example of a well rounded squad of about 12 should have:
-    - 1 Heavy Machine Gun, to keep the enemy at bay with heavy fire power ( ex. M2 Browning )
-    - 2 - 3 Light Machine Guns, to ensure you have enough fire power at a fire-team lever ( ex. M249, Bren, BAR )
-    - 1 Sniper/Marksman rifle, to take out high value targets and remove the enemy's heavy fire power ( ex. M24, M14 EBR, VSS Vintorez )
-    - 3 fire teams of: 1 Battle Rifle, 1 Assault Rifle, and 1 Submachine gun each.
- Close quarter combats are brutal and bloody, expect lots of casualties.

Version 2.0 Change Log:
--- Alpha 7 Compatible, Finally
--- Rebalanced Melee Weapons
--- Buffed Turrets and Rebalanced Mortars
-    - Turrets now have 200+ Range, and a faster fire rate + damage, should be vulnerable only to snipers
-    - Mortars have an aim time of 5 seconds, and cooldown time of 15 seconds
--- Rebalanced Launcher weapons

Version 1.2 Change Log:
--- Added WWII weapons pack
--- Decreased ranges on all weapons with ranges over 40 by 1/4
--- Decreased Aim time on weapons
-    - Pistols: 0.33 sec
-    - SMGs and Shotguns: 0.66 sec
-    - Assault Rifles: 1.25 sec
-    - Battle Rifles: 1.50 sec
-    - LMGs: 1.50 sec
-    - HMGs: 2 sec
-    - Snipers: 3 sec
--- Changed cooldown time
-    - Pistols: 0.33 sec
-    - SMGs and Shotguns: 0.33 sec
-    - Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles: 0.66 sec
-    - LMGs: 1 sec
-    - HMGs: 1.25 sec
-    - Snipers: 2 sec


Earlier Change Logs:
V1.1
--- Weapon clip sizes reduced to 1/5 of their real life values, should fix colonists doing stupid things and not moving.
--- Accuracy balances for all weapons
---    - Pistols and SMGs have great accuracy at short ranges, accuracy drops off rapidly in medium ranges
-    - Shotguns have decent accuracy at short ranges, and low accuracy at medium ranges
-    - Assault rifles have decent accuracy at all ranges, performs best at medium ranges
-    - Battle rifles have slightly lower accuracy as Assault rifles at short and medium ranges, performs best at long ranges
-    - LMGs, HMGs, Snipers accuracy balanced accordingly
- Aim time decreased
-    - Pistols = 1 sec
-    - SMGs = 1.5 sec
-    - Shotguns = 2 sec
-    - Assault Rifles = 2.5 sec
-    - Battle Rifles = 3 sec
-    - LMGs = 3 - 3.5 sec
-    - HMGs, Snipers = 4 sec
Original
---All weapon ranges are 1/5th of their real life ranges in terms of meters.
---Projectile Speeds are 1/5th of their real life Muzzle Velocities in terns of m/s.
---Weapon Damages significantly Increased:
-       -Pistol and SMG rounds damage changed to 12 (9x19 Parabellums, ,45 ACPs, .38s, etc.)
-       -Assault Rifle rounds damage changed to 16 (5.56 x 45mm NATO, etc.)
-       -Battle Rifle and Machine Gun  rounds damage changed to 20 (7.62 x 51mm NATO, .303 British, .30-06 Springfield, etc.)
-       -Shotgun Rounds damaged changed to 30-40 ( 12 Gauge, etc.)
-       -Sniper rounds damage changed to 50-120


Grenades Pack:
--- Ranges and damage of original grenades changed
--- Added Stun Grenades
--- Added Mining Grenades
--- Added Healing Grenades
--- Added Disintegrator Grenades

Future Features:
--- Realistic and more types of Grenades
--- WWII weapons pack
--- Reload Mechanism (Unfeasible in the current alpha)
--- Realistic Mortars and Launchers
--- Barbed Wires
--- Trenches
--- Foxholes
--- Mines


Credits to the Project Armory mod team for their awesome weapons.
(http://goo.gl/q9cS2S) (http://goo.gl/umqj5H)

Would this work with Tech Tree Minami as it has Project Armory included in it

Quote from: DaPieGuy on August 28, 2014, 12:55:08 PM
Would this work with Tech Tree Minami as it has Project Armory included in it

It should, since all the mod changes are the values of the individual weapons. The mod does not change any path directory in Project Armory.

Added this to the front page of Project Armory.

http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1950.msg17999#msg17999

Quote from: Evul on August 28, 2014, 01:17:57 PM
Added this to the front page of Project Armory.

http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1950.msg17999#msg17999

Thanks  ;)

I can understand the freaking minigun upgrade, but did you just downgrade the weapons as well?

Quote from: Zeta Omega on August 28, 2014, 04:07:06 PM
I can understand the freaking minigun upgrade, but did you just downgrade the weapons as well?

No, weapon damage is actually increased. Compared to Project Armory:
Pistol damages increased from 7-9 to 10-13
SMG damages increased from 4-9 to 12-14
Assault Rifle damages increased from 6-8 to 16
Battle Rifle and Heavy Machinegun damages increased from 12-20 to all 20
Shotgun damages increased from 10-20 to 30-40
Sniper damages increased from 30-45 to 60-120

Some weapons might feel weaker than before because the aim time is increased and the fire rate has been changed corresponding to real life values.
One salvo is now the one entire magazine of said weapon as well.

OH.......so the miniguns ridicules power is reduced with a longer time....

Quote from: Zeta Omega on August 28, 2014, 04:39:25 PM
OH.......so the miniguns ridicules power is reduced with a longer time....

Yup, the heavier the weapon is, the longer it takes it start shooting. Its to make small guns like SMGs and pistols, which have a ridiculously small range, to still have a purpose; which is to dominate close quarters fighting.

I started a new Colony with Superior Craft 2.1 and Realistic Weapons. Maybe they don't fit together, i don't know, but the Lee Ensfield from the beginning has troubles. My toon fires to hunt a squirrel, the animal dies, my toon walks to it to carry it, and... my toon keeps firing at the dead squirrel. And sometimes, he fires some bullets, and sometimes, he fires a rapid pack of bullets, all from the same weapon. Also, the weapon seems to have infinite range, as i can't see no circle when i draft my armed toon.

I didn't try the other ones yet.

Quote from: ( Tchey ) on August 28, 2014, 07:11:26 PM
I started a new Colony with Superior Craft 2.1 and Realistic Weapons. Maybe they don't fit together, i don't know, but the Lee Ensfield from the beginning has troubles. My toon fires to hunt a squirrel, the animal dies, my toon walks to it to carry it, and... my toon keeps firing at the dead squirrel. And sometimes, he fires some bullets, and sometimes, he fires a rapid pack of bullets, all from the same weapon. Also, the weapon seems to have infinite range, as i can't see no circle when i draft my armed toon.

I didn't try the other ones yet.

The Enfield has a range of 100, so you might not be able to see the range circle if you are in certain places of the map. It's set to fire 10 rounds in a burst ( The SMLE had a 10 round magazine ) at about 1 sec per shot ( Since its a bolt action rifle ). Its normal if your guy fires off 10 rounds in total after aiming.
As for the rapid firing, try deleting the Weapons_Guns.xml in the Superior Craft file, it is located in SuperiorCrafting/Defs/ThingDefs.

Great work. I have been wanting something like this! Will test!

Edit.

The full auto mag dumping according to their ammo capacity doesn't work too well and leads to funky, negligence, and outright dangerous behaviors.  IE, doesn't stop shooting even when the target is dead, mag dumping at allies cause of crazy squirrels and the like.

The damage model and combat system is too simplistic right now, there is not much you can do to replicate a decent level of realism. I think it is best to balance for single shots/ burst speed and have the accuracy determines the weapon type. IE Assault rifles is all a rounder with decent speed/burst and accuracy. Battle Rifles have higher accuracy for lower speed. SMG have speed and accuracy at close range, but no accuracy for long range, etc.

It would be great if colonist operate their weapons differently at different ranges. IE single shots for long range and burst for closer ranges. Right now going full auto all the time is a bad idea.

How long did this take. Editing all the xml files?

Quote from: harpuea on August 28, 2014, 10:06:26 PM
Great work. I have been wanting something like this! Will test!

Edit.

The full auto mag dumping according to their ammo capacity doesn't work too well and leads to funky, negligence, and outright dangerous behaviors.  IE, doesn't stop shooting even when the target is dead, mag dumping at allies cause of crazy squirrels and the like.

The damage model and combat system is too simplistic right now, there is not much you can do to replicate a decent level of realism. I think it is best to balance for single shots/ burst speed and have the accuracy determines the weapon type. IE Assault rifles is all a rounder with decent speed/burst and accuracy. Battle Rifles have higher accuracy for lower speed. SMG have speed and accuracy at close range, but no accuracy for long range, etc.

It would be great if colonist operate their weapons differently at different ranges. IE single shots for long range and burst for closer ranges. Right now going full auto all the time is a bad idea.

Yea, now that with more testing dumping the whole mag isnt the best idea, I do plan on fixing that ASAP. Originally I wanted to give some weapons their ammo capacity advantage,but there simply isnt a way for me to implement a reload system (long reload) and a burst system (short reload) with only a warmup timer and a cooldown timer. I plan on adjusting the burst rounds in proportion to clip sizes so weapons with large clips still keep an advantage, not sure how if it will cause pistols to be utterly useless though.

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on August 28, 2014, 10:15:54 PM
How long did this take. Editing all the xml files?

Long, but as long as people have fun with this its ok.

Quote from: AY on August 28, 2014, 07:24:31 PM
As for the rapid firing, try deleting the Weapons_Guns.xml in the Superior Craft file, it is located in SuperiorCrafting/Defs/ThingDefs.

The only thing my Weapons_Guns.xml does is add the code for the turrets I've added in version 2.  It does not have any code in it for the stock weapons (with the exception of the L-15 LMG).  It should not cause a conflict.  If he deletes that, none of the turrets will work.

Quote from: Abrexus on August 29, 2014, 12:43:20 AM

Quote from: AY on August 28, 2014, 07:24:31 PM
As for the rapid firing, try deleting the Weapons_Guns.xml in the Superior Craft file, it is located in SuperiorCrafting/Defs/ThingDefs.

The only thing my Weapons_Guns.xml does is add the code for the turrets I've added in version 2.  It does not have any code in it for the stock weapons (with the exception of the L-15 LMG).  It should not cause a conflict.  If he deletes that, none of the turrets will work.

It is most likely another mod that is causing the conflict then.

nice

mod seems really interesting, are the enemy raiders also able to use the grenades?

I want to enjoy the mod but i don't. 

My toons keep firing after the target is dead or uncouncious (and so they kill it), even when moving. The classic pattern is when there is a crazy squirrel, my guard shoot at it, the animal dies, my guard moves but continues to fire,, and sometimes hurts another colonist walking around, like an hauler to carry the body to the cooker.

It's like this even with the gun, Glock## something.

The log says nothing about an error, and i don't think i have any mods in conflict.

SuperiorCrafting 2.1
Miscellanous MAI
Rug animal skins
EdB interface
Traps (i'm certain this mod is harmless because i've installed it after i start the colony, with already the guns problem).

Quote
Yea, now that with more testing dumping the whole mag isnt the best idea, I do plan on fixing that ASAP. Originally I wanted to give some weapons their ammo capacity advantage,but there simply isnt a way for me to implement a reload system (long reload) and a burst system (short reload) with only a warmup timer and a cooldown timer. I plan on adjusting the burst rounds in proportion to clip sizes so weapons with large clips still keep an advantage, not sure how if it will cause pistols to be utterly useless though.

Don't bother trying to make pistol viable. Just try to balance the long weapons. Make them lethal, yes, but trying to make pistols beat any other long arm is futile. The reality is they can't compete against Rifles and SMGs and are meant as a backup weapon more than anything. In civilian application, they are portable that's what people carry them. In war, nobody use a pistol as their main weapon. That's just the way it is. The phrase is something like "Use your side arm to fight your way to a rifle." Too bad colonist can't carry more than one weapon and they don't even need ammo for their guns.

Quote from: harpuea on August 29, 2014, 07:16:35 AM

Quote
Yea, now that with more testing dumping the whole mag isnt the best idea, I do plan on fixing that ASAP. Originally I wanted to give some weapons their ammo capacity advantage,but there simply isnt a way for me to implement a reload system (long reload) and a burst system (short reload) with only a warmup timer and a cooldown timer. I plan on adjusting the burst rounds in proportion to clip sizes so weapons with large clips still keep an advantage, not sure how if it will cause pistols to be utterly useless though.

yeah, i am thinking about making a new thread in the suggestions section, i would also love for weapons to use ammo (generic "ammo" is enough, don't need rifle / pistol / smg / renfield ammo). also it would be nice to be able to form squads and have a squad-menue from where you can easily add / remove members, see their current health and combat related skills (hopefully we get some weapon specialization ... or maybe), their current job, etc. creating squads would in the current version make it easy to select and order them around, it would also give an easy to access overview of your militia forces in terms of the status. i would also love to see some more love given to the melee combat, especially if ammunition is added, melee weapons could make a good alternative weapon and also provide for some challenge if a player wants to go full melee force vs raiders & mechanoids (me :D). it would also be nice to be able to equip more than one weapon, so maybe one 2-handed item and one 1-handed item. maybe only if they have a backpack or things like a weapon-holster of any kind. adding some storage system like barrels, bins / boxes would also help the stockpiles (and backpacks could help collecting resources).

further things like civilian alerts, burrows (zones where you can define which civilian is allowed where to go) and training facilities like shooting range would be nice.

Don't bother trying to make pistol viable. Just try to balance the long weapons. Make them lethal, yes, but trying to make pistols beat any other long arm is futile. The reality is they can't compete against Rifles and SMGs and are meant as a backup weapon more than anything. In civilian application, they are portable that's what people carry them. In war, nobody use a pistol as their main weapon. That's just the way it is. The phrase is something like "Use your side arm to fight your way to a rifle." Too bad colonist can't carry more than one weapon and they don't even need ammo for their guns.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on August 29, 2014, 05:44:35 AM
mod seems really interesting, are the enemy raiders also able to use the grenades?

Yup, they can use the grenades too, although they do have a fairly low chance of spawning with those weapons. You'd have a better chance buying it from a combat supplier.

I like the damage/fire rate, but I'd like the weapons to fire in bursts rather than dump their entire clip into a target that has been dead for a couple of seconds.
EDIT Just saw the update, and was literally doing the same thing to my own files.

Can't download because of the dammed authorization delay... :'(

@ModBD - This is the internet! People who have common-sense don't get virus, and people without it are going to get infected no matter how many of their downloads you verify before you let them download! JUST AUTHORIZE ALREADY!

Quote from: Delta_Com on August 29, 2014, 01:50:34 PM
I like the damage/fire rate, but I'd like the weapons to fire in bursts rather than dump their entire clip into a target that has been dead for a couple of seconds.
EDIT Just saw the update, and was literally doing the same thing to my own files.

Quote from: AlmightyR on August 29, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
Can't download because of the dammed authorization delay... :'(

@ModBD - This is the internet! People who have common-sense don't get virus, and people without it are going to get infected no matter how many of their downloads you verify before you let them download! JUST AUTHORIZE ALREADY!

All fixed up and authorized, enjoy the mod :)

Quote from: ( Tchey ) on August 29, 2014, 07:15:27 AM
I want to enjoy the mod but i don't. 

My toons keep firing after the target is dead or uncouncious (and so they kill it), even when moving. The classic pattern is when there is a crazy squirrel, my guard shoot at it, the animal dies, my guard moves but continues to fire,, and sometimes hurts another colonist walking around, like an hauler to carry the body to the cooker.

It's like this even with the gun, Glock## something.

The log says nothing about an error, and i don't think i have any mods in conflict.

SuperiorCrafting 2.1
Miscellanous MAI
Rug animal skins
EdB interface
Traps (i'm certain this mod is harmless because i've installed it after i start the colony, with already the guns problem).

Look earlier in the posts -_-

Quote from: ( Tchey ) on August 29, 2014, 07:15:27 AM
I want to enjoy the mod but i don't. 

My toons keep firing after the target is dead or uncouncious (and so they kill it), even when moving. The classic pattern is when there is a crazy squirrel, my guard shoot at it, the animal dies, my guard moves but continues to fire,, and sometimes hurts another colonist walking around, like an hauler to carry the body to the cooker.

It's like this even with the gun, Glock## something.

The log says nothing about an error, and i don't think i have any mods in conflict.

SuperiorCrafting 2.1
Miscellanous MAI
Rug animal skins
EdB interface
Traps (i'm certain this mod is harmless because i've installed it after i start the colony, with already the guns problem).

Try the new update, it should fix that problem.

Wait a sec....-looks up rimworld wiki- Minigun aim time 4.17....this one says 4........DECREASED TIME!!! HURRAH!
((also do stun grenades incapacitate? Im looking for non deadly weapons for colony growth

Quote from: Zeta Omega on August 29, 2014, 07:28:08 PM
Wait a sec....-looks up rimworld wiki- Minigun aim time 4.17....this one says 4........DECREASED TIME!!! HURRAH!
((also do stun grenades incapacitate? Im looking for non deadly weapons for colony growth

Unfortunately no, the stun grenade merely gives the stun effect, however, you can try stunning them then get your colonists to beat them until they're incapacitated.
I'm currently messing around with the damage types and values, so you can probably expect them soon.

I don't know about you, but here's what I did:

(http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5807.0;attach=3683)

Now I only have to select one mod.

[attachment deleted by admin: too old]

Quote from: Delta_Com on August 29, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
I don't know about you, but here's what I did:

(http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5807.0;attach=3683)

Now I only have to select one mod.

Lol congrats on saving 2 mouse clicks  ;D . I'll release a mod pack once I finish up on some of the other features I have planned.

Quote from: Zeta Omega on August 29, 2014, 07:28:08 PM
((also do stun grenades incapacitate? Im looking for non deadly weapons for colony growth

Progress update: After messing around I have come to the conclusion that incapacitation isnt something that's cumulative, rather something thats up to the storyteller AI, if the AI doesnt want you to incap someone s/he isnt going to incapped. I made an "incapacitation grenade" that uses a new "incap" damage type that I put together with a 99999999999 incap chance multiplier, but so far doesnt quite work in Cassandra and Phoebe, I'll probably put it in the next Grenade Pack update if you guys have any grenades that you want to me to make.

I would like see stick grenades. They have farther range and accuracy than ball/pine apple, but less explosive power and radius/ Up to you to balance them as you see fit.  They don't roll down hill either, which make them excellent for charging up hill. Too bad Rimworld have no elevation.  IE, German M24 Stielhandgranate aka Potato Masher, Russian RDG 33

If you really want to make grenades realistic, you should consider making fragmentation grenades range close to real life counter part. Defensive Frag grenades are not safely used unless you got cover since the shrapnel range greatly exceed human throwing range from prone and kneeling. As nobody is likely to throw them in perfect baseball pitching form standing upright and stationary during combat. You are going to be running or taking cover. Offensive grenades are classified as having very short blast radius since you don't want your attacking force to charge right into the blast and fragging themselves.  This convention follows WWI trench warfare school of thought and all the way to WWII. Stielhandgranate complements the German Blitzkrieg tactics for example. So it is best if you only give raiders offensive grenades. Otherwise, they would frag themselves.

Balance the Rifle Grenades, Grenade Launchers, and RPG that already exists in PA.

These are natural evolution of Offensive grenades. They are they reason Stick grenades became obsolete. The range they provide greatly exceeds the range of stick grenades. In Rimworld, I suspect they are basically handheld siege weapons. I suggest making them less accurate and less powerful than the mortar.

Modern grenades nowadays don't really differentiate between offensive and defensive types. Instead, most are now just frags for multipurpose use. The only equivalent of an offensive grenade is the Flash Bang.

I really wish that Colonist can carry multiple weapons. As in guns and grenades.

Reference video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-miuPd3VLc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-miuPd3VLc)

Dosnt it stun your colonists to?

Quote from: Zeta Omega on August 30, 2014, 07:40:25 PM
Dosnt it stun your colonists to?

The stun duration is longer than getting stunned by gunshot in combat.

Satchel charge: Long Fuse, Short throwing range, big explosion

Flare: When detonated places flare where it lands which would light up area. good for miners (not sure if possible but nice idea.)

knockout gas: Very Expensive because of how useful it would be.

Sounds fun, especially the close quarters part, but... Man, the range of weapons are ridiculous.
Which by the way wouldn't be a problem if my PC could handle bigger maps, but as it is, can easily shoot across the map. o_o
I should probably get a better one...

Quote from: harpuea on August 30, 2014, 12:02:34 AM

Stick Grenades

Quote from: Ptolisgoodguy on August 30, 2014, 08:10:13 PM
Satchel charge, Flare, knockout gas

Stick Grenades: Work in Progress, using the Model 24 Stielhandgranate, tweaking the vanilla Pineapple grenade
Satchel Charges: Work in Progress
Flares:  Not sure if viable due to the grenade mechanics being simply "explode" then gone, if not it'll probably be replaced by some sort of "Glowstick" apparel that colonists can "wear" and carry light around.
Knockout Gas: Gasses arent really implemented in the game yet, probably will be replaced by a stun gun of some sort.

There's gas in the traps mod :)

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on August 31, 2014, 11:51:46 AM
There's gas in the traps mod :)

I will check it out then.

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on August 31, 2014, 11:51:46 AM
There's gas in the traps mod :)

I mostly use that mod for the armored cables and nitrogen gas when I have a forest colony, fires spread like crazy

Great mod! But I cant seem to build the barbedwire, for as soon as my colonist put all the supplies and build it, the barbedwire instantly vanishes. And I cant seem to research anything to make a trench or anything else beside barbedwire and electric ones.

Quote from: Liltrue on September 01, 2014, 11:12:25 AM
Great mod! But I cant seem to build the barbedwire, for as soon as my colonist put all the supplies and build it, the barbedwire instantly vanishes. And I cant seem to research anything to make a trench or anything else beside barbedwire and electric ones.

Try downloading from ModDB again and reinstalling it, you might have the old version ( the one without the embrasures). Also, trenches and barbed wires do not need to be researched.

hey, great mod i just have one question:

i tried your PA+realistic weapon mod pack so far with the vanilla version, now i have come to love the TTM overhaul mod which includes the PA mod. my question is now if (and maybe how) i can integrate your mod to the TTM mod which has the PA mod integrated^^.

like i said, i tried your mod with vanilla Rimworld + PA and i think your changes make a huge impact towards having a more tactical gameplay which i really like and i would love to integrate it into my game :).

Hey, love this mod, but it think i found a typo. Almost all pistols i have seen until now have range 10, but the steyr-Mannlicher m1901 has range 100, as much as the Lee-Enfield! I hope this was not intentional.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 03, 2014, 11:58:22 AM
hey, great mod i just have one question:

i tried your PA+realistic weapon mod pack so far with the vanilla version, now i have come to love the TTM overhaul mod which includes the PA mod. my question is now if (and maybe how) i can integrate your mod to the TTM mod which has the PA mod integrated^^.

like i said, i tried your mod with vanilla Rimworld + PA and i think your changes make a huge impact towards having a more tactical gameplay which i really like and i would love to integrate it into my game :).

Just use the mod pack for PA, it contains only the thingdefs folder, simply extract it into the same mod you're trying to integrate it with and let it overwrite the PA files.

Quote from: Maffo on September 03, 2014, 02:13:33 PM
Hey, love this mod, but it think i found a typo. Almost all pistols i have seen until now have range 10, but the steyr-Mannlicher m1901 has range 100, as much as the Lee-Enfield! I hope this was not intentional.

Oh whoops, didn't notice the extra 0. I'll fix that in the next patch, along with introducing some new weapons.

Quote from: AY on September 03, 2014, 05:29:16 PM

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 03, 2014, 11:58:22 AM
hey, great mod i just have one question:

i tried your PA+realistic weapon mod pack so far with the vanilla version, now i have come to love the TTM overhaul mod which includes the PA mod. my question is now if (and maybe how) i can integrate your mod to the TTM mod which has the PA mod integrated^^.

like i said, i tried your mod with vanilla Rimworld + PA and i think your changes make a huge impact towards having a more tactical gameplay which i really like and i would love to integrate it into my game :).

Just use the mod pack for PA, it contains only the thingdefs folder, simply extract it into the same mod you're trying to integrate it with and let it overwrite the PA files.

yeah but i am using the techtree minami mod (like i said) and this includes the PA mod and puts the weapons in the techtree etc., i just don't know if i overwrite this thingdefs folder if the "new" files might break the connection to the research tree (am no modder, just trying to think cautiously^^).

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 03, 2014, 06:21:05 PM

yeah but i am using the techtree minami mod (like i said) and this includes the PA mod and puts the weapons in the techtree etc., i just don't know if i overwrite this thingdefs folder if the "new" files might break the connection to the research tree (am no modder, just trying to think cautiously^^).

I just downloaded TTM and checked, the researches are referencing the weapons, instead of the other way around. The mod should work fine with the PA files being overwritten.

Quote from: AY on September 03, 2014, 09:40:07 PM

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 03, 2014, 06:21:05 PM

yeah but i am using the techtree minami mod (like i said) and this includes the PA mod and puts the weapons in the techtree etc., i just don't know if i overwrite this thingdefs folder if the "new" files might break the connection to the research tree (am no modder, just trying to think cautiously^^).

I just downloaded TTM and checked, the researches are referencing the weapons, instead of the other way around. The mod should work fine with the PA files being overwritten.

yay, thanks for clarification and i think this could also be changed on the fly and doesn't require a new colony.

EDIT ok @OP (/modder), i love the idea of weapons being more deadly and more diverse but why is one of my early game / low shooting-skill (well ok, he has 8 or 9 in it) colonist able to shoot / hunt deer from literally across the map? i understand that some weapons have increased range but that seems a bit too far:

(http://s1.directupload.net/images/140904/temp/gtk2osjn.png) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3735/gtk2osjn_png.htm)

ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

so some pistals in PA with realistic weapon are bugged?

well the one shooting just spawned a couple minutes ago and joined my colony, he had a light smg if i remember correctly, he did NOT have the lee einfield.

thing is, realistic or not that range is kinda gamebreaking for me because the range was around 50-60% of the whole map meaning if i get attacked by raiders they should from the other side of the map? that isn't just bound with some problems but quite boring tbh.

what is further bothering me is that you see  clearly a bunch of trees between him and the deers, there is no way he could hit those animals, he had no clear shot and yet he hit them nonetheless.

Because AY, made a mistake and put pistol's range on 100, so that may be the cause.

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 05:16:42 PM
Because AY, made a mistake and put pistol's range on 100, so that may be the cause.

hmmm, but like i said...he had no pistol but came with a brown-black smg / lmg or whatever, sadly i don't have the save anymore otherwise i would've given you the exact weapon -.-.

PA's texture for pistol is different than Vanilla

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

1. The Steyr Mannlicher should be the only pistol that is bugged, the rest (should) have ranges of less than 40.
2. The Lee Enfield has a range of 100, it is on purpose. Some weapons have even higher ranges, so it's recommended to use this pack for Big sized maps.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 04, 2014, 05:03:09 PM

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

so some pistals in PA with realistic weapon are bugged?

well the one shooting just spawned a couple minutes ago and joined my colony, he had a light smg if i remember correctly, he did NOT have the lee einfield.

thing is, realistic or not that range is kinda gamebreaking for me because the range was around 50-60% of the whole map meaning if i get attacked by raiders they should from the other side of the map? that isn't just bound with some problems but quite boring tbh.

what is further bothering me is that you see  clearly a bunch of trees between him and the deers, there is no way he could hit those animals, he had no clear shot and yet he hit them nonetheless.

1. Steyr Mannlicher is the only pistol with bugged range, the rest are fine.
2. SMG maximum range is 40, and that is only on a few of them (If I recall correctly MP40 is one of them), anything with longer ranges are in the rifle section.
3. The smallest map is 200x200 so even a range of 40 shouldn't cross half the map, it's most likely a rifle
4. On the smaller maps immediate firefight might happen, but long range firefights are VERY INACCURATE, and will take absolutely ages if you plan on doing the pre-WWI stand in a line and continuously fire at each other way. On larger maps there should be still quite some distance (probably at least 50) between the raiders and your battle rifle max ranges, and sniper harassing fire is a valid and viable tactic. Once a firefight begins you should establish a "front line", which is basically your colonists and raiders exchanging fire at a long range, while both sides try to flank each other and counter-flanking.
5. Now that you bring that to my attention it does seem rather silly, I'll change some attributes on the trees and see if that can make it so they block bullets and work as a cover for more interesting forest/jungle fights.

Quote from: AY on September 04, 2014, 06:05:15 PM

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

1. The Steyr Mannlicher should be the only pistol that is bugged, the rest (should) have ranges of less than 40.
2. The Lee Enfield has a range of 100, it is on purpose. Some weapons have even higher ranges, so it's recommended to use this pack for Big sized maps.

big-sized maps are fine and good but the game isn't optimized yet and i get some framerate drops while i get some huge invasions (50 +), but that might also be because i often play at 3x speed and won't really go below 2x speed^^.

the game also doesn't seem to utilize all my cores (intel core i5 4440, 4x 3.2 ghz), i did test it once with both coretemp and openhardwaremonitor. my first core got once to 100% but my other cores were around 60% at max. so i don't know about using bigger maps, i have 8 gig ram so it should be fine though.

till now i played on the standard settings, i might try the mod again then. but its kinda ironic, at the start of a new game and the first time i play with these weapon modifications, the first one who shoots is some colonist i get right from the start (never had that before) and he carries the only buggy gun x'D.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 04, 2014, 06:22:16 PM

Quote from: AY on September 04, 2014, 06:05:15 PM

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

1. The Steyr Mannlicher should be the only pistol that is bugged, the rest (should) have ranges of less than 40.
2. The Lee Enfield has a range of 100, it is on purpose. Some weapons have even higher ranges, so it's recommended to use this pack for Big sized maps.

big-sized maps are fine and good but the game isn't optimized yet and i get some framerate drops while i get some huge invasions (50 +), but that might also be because i often play at 3x speed and won't really go below 2x speed^^.

the game also doesn't seem to utilize all my cores (intel core i5 4440, 4x 3.2 ghz), i did test it once with both coretemp and openhardwaremonitor. my first core got once to 100% but my other cores were around 60% at max. so i don't know about using bigger maps, i have 8 gig ram so it should be fine though.

till now i played on the standard settings, i might try the mod again then. but its kinda ironic, at the start of a new game and the first time i play with these weapon modifications, the first one who shoots is some colonist i get right from the start (never had that before) and he carries the only buggy gun x'D.

Problems with optimization is up to Tynan, so unfortunately there is nothing I can do to make big maps run better. However I do recommend using 1x speed during combat, since messing up is more devastating and your colonists can be killed very easily.
The problem with the Mannlicher pistol will be fixed next update along with some tweaks to trees and cover.

Quote from: AY on September 04, 2014, 07:23:14 PM

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 04, 2014, 06:22:16 PM

Quote from: AY on September 04, 2014, 06:05:15 PM

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 04, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
ONE: Mistake for some pistols in PA,
TWO: The Lee Einfield has quite a big range (don't know if accident or on purpose)

1. The Steyr Mannlicher should be the only pistol that is bugged, the rest (should) have ranges of less than 40.
2. The Lee Enfield has a range of 100, it is on purpose. Some weapons have even higher ranges, so it's recommended to use this pack for Big sized maps.

big-sized maps are fine and good but the game isn't optimized yet and i get some framerate drops while i get some huge invasions (50 +), but that might also be because i often play at 3x speed and won't really go below 2x speed^^.

the game also doesn't seem to utilize all my cores (intel core i5 4440, 4x 3.2 ghz), i did test it once with both coretemp and openhardwaremonitor. my first core got once to 100% but my other cores were around 60% at max. so i don't know about using bigger maps, i have 8 gig ram so it should be fine though.

till now i played on the standard settings, i might try the mod again then. but its kinda ironic, at the start of a new game and the first time i play with these weapon modifications, the first one who shoots is some colonist i get right from the start (never had that before) and he carries the only buggy gun x'D.

Problems with optimization is up to Tynan, so unfortunately there is nothing I can do to make big maps run better. However I do recommend using 1x speed during combat, since messing up is more devastating and your colonists can be killed very easily.
The problem with the Mannlicher pistol will be fixed next update along with some tweaks to trees and cover.

sounds great, thanks for your effort!

Man, Xerb you have an awesome computer. Mine is the worst computer you can have. A macbook wich is outdated. Hopefully upgrading when I get some money.

Also you should tweak cover. In "Vanilla" embrasures, most of the late game guns, just passed straight throught it. In real life, there is a 10% chance to actually get the bullet/arrow inside, let alone dealing with hitting them. I think there should be a buff.

here is hoping you can use those ww2 weapon textures i sent you :P if you need anymore just throw me a message

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on September 05, 2014, 12:02:38 AM
Man, Xerb you have an awesome computer. Mine is the worst computer you can have. A macbook wich is outdated. Hopefully upgrading when I get some money.

Also you should tweak cover. In "Vanilla" embrasures, most of the late game guns, just passed straight throught it. In real life, there is a 10% chance to actually get the bullet/arrow inside, let alone dealing with hitting them. I think there should be a buff.

to quote myself here to answer the last paragraph of yours:

Quoterimworld has, at least for now, the mount & blade syndrome. the base game is decent and nice to play for a while but what really makes the game shine is the moddability and the available mods.

this is mainly because tynan is focusing on game mechanics, which is the correct choice, and the community delivers the content updates :).

i played vanilla rimworld once, then tried TTM and i'm not able to go back, like dat difficulty and techtree & crafting-focused progression. also wasn't mentioned that the lee einfeld had the largest range (100), i found a rifle that has 120 .....also the increased weapon-damage in this mod is brutal man x'D.

I cant get Fortifications Mod Pack working for some reason. I installed all tree files into mod loader but i cant see any defensive structures. Do i need Research somethink first or what?

Put the fortifications folder into the mods folder, then install it.

I Extracted file into mod folder as you told and activated all tree files "Defs, Textures and About" files and still nothink happend. Did you mean i have to spesially install it? Il have installed lot mods il removed every one and tryed and nothink happend....

Don't put the folders, do these steps:
Unzip the folder.
Place folder into mod folder located in Rimworld's files.
Open Rimworld and go into mods and activate fortification's mod. Should show a description.

Quote from: DarkTemplarlord on September 05, 2014, 02:42:46 PM
I Extracted file into mod folder as you told and activated all tree files "Defs, Textures and About" files and still nothink happend. Did you mean i have to spesially install it? Il have installed lot mods il removed every one and tryed and nothink happend....

first time applying a mod? this is one of the easier versions so most of the answers thus far didn't recognise the fact that you didn't knew how to do it, sorry!

mods have to be ONE folder which are placed in the "mods" folder in the rimworld folder. in this ONE folder, lets call it "Hello World Mod", are more fodlers like defs and others, those are NOT to be placed directly in the "mods" folder but have to be in a folder of themselve.

maybe you downloaded the wrong mod version? all mods i have seen thus far here are already in their own fodler once you have extracted the file, so you only have to copy & paste the one folder to the mods folder of the game.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 05, 2014, 04:59:44 PM

Quote from: DarkTemplarlord on September 05, 2014, 02:42:46 PM
I Extracted file into mod folder as you told and activated all tree files "Defs, Textures and About" files and still nothink happend. Did you mean i have to spesially install it? Il have installed lot mods il removed every one and tryed and nothink happend....

first time applying a mod? this is one of the easier versions so most of the answers thus far didn't recognise the fact that you didn't knew how to do it, sorry!

mods have to be ONE folder which are placed in the "mods" folder in the rimworld folder. in this ONE folder, lets call it "Hello World Mod", are more fodlers like defs and others, those are NOT to be placed directly in the "mods" folder but have to be in a folder of themselve.

maybe you downloaded the wrong mod version? all mods i have seen thus far here are already in their own fodler once you have extracted the file, so you only have to copy & paste the one folder to the mods folder of the game.

i did have extracted it wrong way now its working fine Thx for you

Quote from: DarkTemplarlord on September 06, 2014, 12:50:20 AM

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 05, 2014, 04:59:44 PM

Quote from: DarkTemplarlord on September 05, 2014, 02:42:46 PM
I Extracted file into mod folder as you told and activated all tree files "Defs, Textures and About" files and still nothink happend. Did you mean i have to spesially install it? Il have installed lot mods il removed every one and tryed and nothink happend....

you're welcome, omg....latenight english is worst englich ....FODLER x'D...hilarious.
first time applying a mod? this is one of the easier versions so most of the answers thus far didn't recognise the fact that you didn't knew how to do it, sorry!

mods have to be ONE folder which are placed in the "mods" folder in the rimworld folder. in this ONE folder, lets call it "Hello World Mod", are more fodlers like defs and others, those are NOT to be placed directly in the "mods" folder but have to be in a folder of themselve.

maybe you downloaded the wrong mod version? all mods i have seen thus far here are already in their own fodler once you have extracted the file, so you only have to copy & paste the one folder to the mods folder of the game.

i did have extracted it wrong way now its working fine Thx for you

This is awesome

Absolutely love this mod. I can't go back to vanilla after using superior crafting + Project Armory  + Realistic Weapons.

I do think that close quarters combat could be more interesting. The idea behind the "warmup" is that colonists aim, right? Well sort of. And because shotguns are only effective in really tight quarters, I would really feel it would be advantageous for them and other weapons that are supposedly ideal for CQC to barely have any warmup. It just looks so weird and less intensive when they stand literally one square from eachother and hostiles swarm in only to stand there looking at eachother for 2 seconds before shooting. Wouldn't it be cooler just to keep the reload after the first shot
and remove the warmup?

Ideally the warmup should be higher the longer away from you are, but that might be hard to implement in a mod, or impossible.

Just a thought.

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 08:49:30 AM
Absolutely love this mod. I can't go back to vanilla after using superior crafting + Project Armory  + Realistic Weapons.

I do think that close quarters combat could be more interesting. The idea behind the "warmup" is that colonists aim, right? Well sort of. And because shotguns are only effective in really tight quarters, I would really feel it would be advantageous for them and other weapons that are supposedly ideal for CQC to barely have any warmup. It just looks so weird and less intensive when they stand literally one square from eachother and hostiles swarm in only to stand there looking at eachother for 2 seconds before shooting. Wouldn't it be cooler just to keep the reload after the first shot
and remove the warmup?

Ideally the warmup should be higher the longer away from you are, but that might be hard to implement in a mod, or impossible.

Just a thought.

i like the differentiations of the different weapons and their use in different circumstances too, i personally just find the range a bit too high in general. long range might be realistic but it has some problems gameplay-wise.

the warmup-phase is a vanilla feature though and yes it is supposed to be like an aiming time.

Edit: @MelanisticAlbine: you should also try the apparello mid (way more gear and HATS) and the techtree minami mod :). the ladder is an overhaul mod and you can use the realistic weapon for PA files but not superior crafting with it (does does things similiar to superior crafting but more emphasis on research and true game progression). also you HAVE to try edb interface mod, its a must-have in my opinion!

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 07, 2014, 08:56:51 AM

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 08:49:30 AM
Absolutely love this mod. I can't go back to vanilla after using superior crafting + Project Armory  + Realistic Weapons.

I do think that close quarters combat could be more interesting. The idea behind the "warmup" is that colonists aim, right? Well sort of. And because shotguns are only effective in really tight quarters, I would really feel it would be advantageous for them and other weapons that are supposedly ideal for CQC to barely have any warmup. It just looks so weird and less intensive when they stand literally one square from eachother and hostiles swarm in only to stand there looking at eachother for 2 seconds before shooting. Wouldn't it be cooler just to keep the reload after the first shot
and remove the warmup?

Ideally the warmup should be higher the longer away from you are, but that might be hard to implement in a mod, or impossible.

Just a thought.

i like the differentiations of the different weapons and their use in different circumstances too, i personally just find the range a bit too high in general. long range might be realistic but it has some problems gameplay-wise.

the warmup-phase is a vanilla feature though and yes it is supposed to be like an aiming time.

I can agree with that. Gameplay wise, I too feel that range needs to be shortened a little bit. There's too many weapons that can shoot all the way across the map, when in my opinion, only certain sniper rifles should possess that range.

Right now it's way to hard to advance on enemy positions because they can shoot at you from a mile away.

My wishes right now
1. Make battle rifles, Assault Rifles, LMGs have lower range, and lower the range of sniper rifles slightly but not much.

2. Lower warmup on Pistols, Shotguns and SMGs, to somewhere around 0,1-0,5.

This will make the game more tactical and specifically balance out the game. It's always fun placing out your colonists strategically in a room when the enemy is about to breach to door. But what happens when they do enter is not that exciting because no one is even firing at the door within 2 seconds. Those seconds count in a firefight!

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 09:13:44 AM

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 07, 2014, 08:56:51 AM

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 08:49:30 AM
Absolutely love this mod. I can't go back to vanilla after using superior crafting + Project Armory  + Realistic Weapons.

I do think that close quarters combat could be more interesting. The idea behind the "warmup" is that colonists aim, right? Well sort of. And because shotguns are only effective in really tight quarters, I would really feel it would be advantageous for them and other weapons that are supposedly ideal for CQC to barely have any warmup. It just looks so weird and less intensive when they stand literally one square from eachother and hostiles swarm in only to stand there looking at eachother for 2 seconds before shooting. Wouldn't it be cooler just to keep the reload after the first shot
and remove the warmup?

Ideally the warmup should be higher the longer away from you are, but that might be hard to implement in a mod, or impossible.

Just a thought.

i like the differentiations of the different weapons and their use in different circumstances too, i personally just find the range a bit too high in general. long range might be realistic but it has some problems gameplay-wise.

the warmup-phase is a vanilla feature though and yes it is supposed to be like an aiming time.

I can agree with that. Gameplay wise, I too feel that range needs to be shortened a little bit. There's too many weapons that can shoot all the way across the map, when in my opinion, only certain sniper rifles should possess that range.

Right now it's way to hard to advance on enemy positions because they can shoot at you from a mile away.

My wishes right now
1. Make battle rifles, Assault Rifles, LMGs have lower range, and lower the range of sniper rifles slightly but not much.

2. Lower warmup on Pistols, Shotguns and SMGs, to somewhere around 0,1-0,5.

This will make the game more tactical and specifically balance out the game. It's always fun placing out your colonists strategically in a room when the enemy is about to breach to door. But what happens when they do enter is not that exciting because no one is even firing at the door within 2 seconds. Those seconds count in a firefight!

+1

these changes would make this mod perfect, i really do love that pistols for example or sub-machine-gun type weapons are viable in close quarters and you have to be tactical to defeat the enemy horde, but having a gunfight from the opposite side of the map to the other isn't really fun or rather doesn't fit the gamplay that well....everything else is awesome though.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 07, 2014, 09:26:29 AM

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 09:13:44 AM

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 07, 2014, 08:56:51 AM

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 08:49:30 AM
1. Shorter Warm up
2. Reload after first shot
3. Warm up longer at ranges

4. Range too high

4. Make battle rifles, Assault Rifles, LMGs have lower range, and lower the range of sniper rifles slightly but not much.

1. Lower warmup on Pistols, Shotguns and SMGs, to somewhere around 0,1-0,5.

1./2. Right now I am using the "warm up time" for differentiating between the weapons. Didn't think of the ridiculously long standing time in close quarters. What I will do is to use the "cool down time" instead, to make the weapons different. So basically what would happen is that weapons will have a really short aim time (although smaller weapons still have an advantage), the main difference will be the reload (cool down time) AFTER the first burst is fired. Hopefully that will make CQC more interesting.
Draft Changes:
Pistol: 1 sec to 0.33 sec
SMG: 1.5 sec to 0.66 sec
Shotgun: 2 sec to 0.84 sec
Assault Rifles: 2.5 sec to 1.2 sec
Battle Rifles/LMG: 3 sec to 1.5 sec
HMG/Snipers: 4 sec to 1.8 sec

Instead, weapons will have "reload" (cool down) times that are 1.5x their aim time; and as a result semi-automatic weapons and bolt action weapons will have their time between burst shots just a little bit lower than their aim time.


3. The current game mechanic is that aim time is constant at all ranges, so nothing I can do to change that.

4. What Im thinking of right now is that ranges will be 2/3 or 3/4 of what they are right now, weapons with ranges under 20 will not be affected.
So ranges would be somewhat close to:
Pistol/SMG/Shotguns under 20: Keep their ranges
SMGs at 40: 30
Launchers at 80: 60
Assault Rifles at 80: 60
Rifles at 100-120: 75-90
120+ will be 2/3 of what  they are now.

So what do you guys think about the new values? Too short? Have some other ideas? I'll start putting this in the next patch starting tomorrow after getting some feedback.

this sounds great and i am looking forward to the next version which i think will round up the rimworld experience quite nicely.

1. Cutting ranges over 20 by 3/4 is probably a good idea to begin with.

2. I'm thinking that you shouldn't change the sniper warm-up time too much. I think 2,5-3 seconds might be good. It will really make sniper-rifles so much more defined as a long range weapon, people will know that tactically you don't send in someone with a sniper rifle in CQC.

3. Hmm... It's hard sitting here trying to figure out the right values but instinctively I'd say maybe the shotgun is still a bit too high on the warm-up? How about having it the same as SMGs?

4. I think generally that in order to better differentiate weapons it would be better if you let LMGs, Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles have a tad higher warm-up than suggested in the draft. Maybe have assault rifles at 1.5 and battle rifles at 1.8.

But then again, it's hard sitting here on the forum debating the exact perfect values. The draft is certainly in the right direction! I'd be very happy if you released a version with those numbers, and then if needed, hammer out the details after some play-time.

I would also like to mention how grateful I am that you made this mod and that you're still working on it! Thanks :)

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
I would also like to mention how grateful I am that you made this mod and that you're still working on it! Thanks :)

+1

the modders of rimworld do some great work!

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
1. Cutting ranges over 20 by 3/4 is probably a good idea to begin with.

2. I'm thinking that you shouldn't change the sniper warm-up time too much. I think 2,5-3 seconds might be good. It will really make sniper-rifles so much more defined as a long range weapon, people will know that tactically you don't send in someone with a sniper rifle in CQC.

3. Hmm... It's hard sitting here trying to figure out the right values but instinctively I'd say maybe the shotgun is still a bit too high on the warm-up? How about having it the same as SMGs?

4. I think generally that in order to better differentiate weapons it would be better if you let LMGs, Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles have a tad higher warm-up than suggested in the draft. Maybe have assault rifles at 1.5 and battle rifles at 1.8.

But then again, it's hard sitting here on the forum debating the exact perfect values. The draft is certainly in the right direction! I'd be very happy if you released a version with those numbers, and then if needed, hammer out the details after some play-time.

I would also like to mention how grateful I am that you made this mod and that you're still working on it! Thanks :)

Perhaps these values would be better?
Pistol: 0.33 sec
SMG/Shotgun: 0.66 sec (SMG has a higher DPS but Shotguns have higher one shot kill chance, even trade off?)
Assault Rifles: 1.2 sec
Battle Rifles: 1.5 sec
HMG: 2 sec
Sniper: 3 sec

Yeah that looks really good!  ;D

Just those changes will overhaul battle tactics a lot! I can't wait for the release! You're awesome.

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 07, 2014, 01:24:27 PM
Yeah that looks really good!  ;D

Just those changes will overhaul battle tactics a lot! I can't wait for the release! You're awesome.

+1 :)

It would seem that the cool down tick also causes colonists to not be able to move after shooting, so I revised the numbers a little bit.
Weapon-Warmup-Cooldown
Pistol-0.33sec-0.33sec
Smg/shotgun-0.66sec-0.33sec
AR-1.2sec-0.66sec
BR-1.5sec-0.66sec
LMG-1.5sec-1sec
Hmg-2sec-1.33sec
Sniper-3sec-1.5sec
*Default cooldown is 0.66sec

The machineguns and snipers take a while to move because they are support, not front line weapons.


*Default cool down is 0.66sec

i think alpha 7 will be a good alpha for your mod and should make it easier for your balancing those weapons.

it seems that from alpha 7 onwards gear (i think weapons too) can modify stats of its wearers, so you could give sniper rifles an aim bonus and heavy machineguns a movement penalty and aiming malus. in general you could balance weapons a bit with weight & movement speed (not drastically but slightly). a big rifle should be heavier than a pistol, i don't know if you could put soft requirements for weapons, making everyone  who hasn't the appropriate skill (like shooting 10 for sniper rifle x) have an accuracy debuff.

Excuse me for already spamming suggestions here but I just thought of something.

Shotgun projectiles. Is it possible to make it.. hmm.. look more like = http://puu.sh/aHs74/50605c69f6.jpg instead of looking like a giant web?

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 08, 2014, 12:31:23 PM
Excuse me for already spamming suggestions here but I just thought of something.

Shotgun projectiles. Is it possible to make it.. hmm.. look more like = http://puu.sh/aHs74/50605c69f6.jpg instead of looking like a giant web?

Cosmetic changes are rather low on the priority list, although if you want to for personal use you can change the shotgun bullet textures in the mod folder.

Quote from: Xerberus86 on September 07, 2014, 12:23:57 PM
this sounds great and i am looking forward to the next version which i think will round up the rimworld experience quite nicely.

Ay you have no idea how much I love you for getting those textures in game, you have easily made one of the best mod for this game.

hey, Ay, I was trying to use the Kit switcher after downloading your mod w/PA and for PA both of which caused it to not open, and only after i told them to open as Admin did it give me a brief 2 sec error stating the program crashed which kinda sucks cause I would love to try out those new WW2 guns you added, is there any way you could make them as a stand alone pack like the grenades?

actually I'm curious would it work if I were to apply the 'For PA' version to TMM's mod, might try and see what happens  ::)

Can you make patch for The Great War mod (made by KnightsCross) It would be great ! :D

Quote from: Gypsypie on September 14, 2014, 02:26:38 AM
hey, Ay, I was trying to use the Kit switcher after downloading your mod w/PA and for PA both of which caused it to not open, and only after i told them to open as Admin did it give me a brief 2 sec error stating the program crashed which kinda sucks cause I would love to try out those new WW2 guns you added, is there any way you could make them as a stand alone pack like the grenades?

I'll look into the kit switcher issue  ???. The standalone version will be released probably next week.

Quote from: Viperlol on September 13, 2014, 09:11:15 PM
Ay you have no idea how much I love you for getting those textures in game, you have easily made one of the best mod for this game.

Couldn't have done it without your help  ;)

Quote from: Gypsypie on September 14, 2014, 02:39:44 AM
actually I'm curious would it work if I were to apply the 'For PA' version to TMM's mod, might try and see what happens  ::)

It should work in any mod that is PA compatible
(MG42s + Zombies  :o )

Quote from: Gypsypie on September 14, 2014, 02:26:38 AM
hey, Ay, I was trying to use the Kit switcher after downloading your mod w/PA and for PA both of which caused it to not open, and only after i told them to open as Admin did it give me a brief 2 sec error stating the program crashed which kinda sucks cause I would love to try out those new WW2 guns you added, is there any way you could make them as a stand alone pack like the grenades?

It seems that the file PA_WorldWar2Weapon_M30Luftwaffedrilling was one letter too long for the kit switcher to handle  :P . If you need to use the kit switcher, simply go to the Mod file> Defs> ThingDefs, locate the file, and shorten the name. It will be fixed in the next update.

Quote from: WolfgangPolska on September 14, 2014, 04:31:36 AM
Can you make patch for The Great War mod (made by KnightsCross) It would be great ! :D

I will have to get his approval first, but I'll try.

Just wanted to say that the latest update was awesome. It really did everything I hoped for.

Got anything more planned?

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on September 17, 2014, 01:44:54 PM
Just wanted to say that the latest update was awesome. It really did everything I hoped for.

Got anything more planned?

Got a few things planned, although tweaking the original weapons are most likely done until Alpha 7
Pre-Alpha 7:
- Balancing the grenades and adding a few more
- Balancing the mortars
- More launcher weapons

Post-Alpha 7:
- Weapon scopes and attachments

XD  I just have my colony raided by terminator with minigun. All of my men died. Including MAI :C

Will be this updated? Espacially the fortifications pack ? :P

Quote from: WolfgangPolska on October 05, 2014, 05:07:10 AM
Will be this updated? Espacially the fortifications pack ? :P

This will be updated, although it might take a while, since lots of coding were changed for Alpha 7
RW: Working on the WWII weapons, will be released soon after PA is done patching
Embrasures: Not sure if PunisheR is planning on updating  the embrasures, if not, I'll work on it after RW.

Quote from: AY on October 05, 2014, 09:33:57 PM

Quote from: WolfgangPolska on October 05, 2014, 05:07:10 AM
Will be this updated? Espacially the fortifications pack ? :P

This will be updated, although it might take a while, since lots of coding were changed for Alpha 7
RW: Working on the WWII weapons, will be released soon after PA is done patching
Embrasures: Not sure if PunisheR is planning on updating  the embrasures, if not, I'll work on it after RW.

Sounds great, this is one of the mods that's holding my A7 colonists back! They need their uber/special guns back! :D
Keep up the great work!

Quote from: AY on October 05, 2014, 09:33:57 PM

Quote from: WolfgangPolska on October 05, 2014, 05:07:10 AM
Will be this updated? Espacially the fortifications pack ? :P

This will be updated, although it might take a while, since lots of coding were changed for Alpha 7
RW: Working on the WWII weapons, will be released soon after PA is done patching
Embrasures: Not sure if PunisheR is planning on updating  the embrasures, if not, I'll work on it after RW.

If PunisheR stopped modding, maybe take the incentive to update it by yourself?

Hello! Wanted to know when the update will be released on alpha 7!? Very good mod! Only it was possible to leave the firing range as in the original!? And the sniper and the machines on the floor card shoot(( 1 perk killed with machine all my turrets!( And not a sentry before it can get( It's not right( thanks in Advance!

My game feel so empty without RW! My snipers have to be standing next to the enemy, and I've shot people in the head multiple times with no effect!

Quote from: Nimr_Tiger on October 17, 2014, 05:58:22 PM
My game feel so empty without RW! My snipers have to be standing next to the enemy, and I've shot people in the head multiple times with no effect!

Yes it is so sad ((When you get to the alpha 7? Not good when a sniper in a fashion shoot on the floor map (and gunner (a very large distance ((

maybe someone can help me, when I try this mod many errors pop up in the log at start menu, Im thinking it had to do with when i download the mod (Fortificationsmodpack) it doesnt download into a folder only a zip with the contents, So i made a new folder called fortificationsmodpack and draged and dropped all the zip files into it. It shows up to be actived fine but many errors when i click it. Hope that makes sense any advice??

Quote from: Herc18 on October 17, 2014, 09:32:46 PM
maybe someone can help me, when I try this mod many errors pop up in the log at start menu, Im thinking it had to do with when i download the mod (Fortificationsmodpack) it doesnt download into a folder only a zip with the contents, So i made a new folder called fortificationsmodpack and draged and dropped all the zip files into it. It shows up to be actived fine but many errors when i click it. Hope that makes sense any advice??

Are you playing Alpha 7? If so the problem is that the mod doesnt work with A7.

I don't completely understand what link to press to get the weapons working because in my game it just shows up as red X and won't shoot or appear in the bottom right but will say "Equiped Glock18"

This mod doesnt work with alpha 7

Quote from: Axel on October 17, 2014, 09:51:15 PM

Quote from: Herc18 on October 17, 2014, 09:32:46 PM
maybe someone can help me, when I try this mod many errors pop up in the log at start menu, Im thinking it had to do with when i download the mod (Fortificationsmodpack) it doesnt download into a folder only a zip with the contents, So i made a new folder called fortificationsmodpack and draged and dropped all the zip files into it. It shows up to be actived fine but many errors when i click it. Hope that makes sense any advice??

Are you playing Alpha 7? If so the problem is that the mod doesnt work with A7.

Yep there be my problem..... Can't believe I missed that....

Any idea when we can expect an update to RW?

The day this gets updated to A7 is the day I have lived a rightous life.

GIMME A ALPHA 7 UPDATE pls :3

This still being developed?

Quote from: redhuntery on October 18, 2014, 10:56:45 PM
GIMME A ALPHA 7 UPDATE pls :3

Quote from: Nimr_Tiger on October 21, 2014, 08:57:08 PM
This still being developed?

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 18, 2014, 10:19:14 PM
The day this gets updated to A7 is the day I have lived a rightous life.

Quote from: Nimr_Tiger on October 18, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
Any idea when we can expect an update to RW?

The main mod should be out by 25th/26th  ;)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YES YES YES WOOOOOOOOOOO! HYPE HYPE HYPE!

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 23, 2014, 08:51:15 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YES YES YES WOOOOOOOOOOO! HYPE HYPE HYPE!

Alpha 7 Version Released  :) _finally

Quote from: AY on October 26, 2014, 01:50:33 PM

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 23, 2014, 08:51:15 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YES YES YES WOOOOOOOOOOO! HYPE HYPE HYPE!

Alpha 7 Version Released  :) _finally

thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou

Finally a release! But the download link "Realistic Weapons for Project armory" doesn't seem to work!

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on October 26, 2014, 05:30:03 PM
Finally a release! But the download link "Realistic Weapons for Project armory" doesn't seem to work!

And fixed  :)

I would DL FOR project armory if I have it, yes? Kinda confused :P

Also, its just the Realistic Weapon Pack thats up for A7, not the Fortifications? Sorry if its obvious and I'm not seeing.

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 26, 2014, 07:52:32 PM
I would DL FOR project armory if I have it, yes? Kinda confused :P

Also, its just the Realistic Weapon Pack thats up for A7, not the Fortifications? Sorry if its obvious and I'm not seeing.

Yup :P, With is the one that includes all the project armory, while the "For" version contains only the defs and textures, and requires manual overwrite of the existing mod files.
Unless you have limited bandwith/monthly usage the with version can simply replace the existing PA mod.

Quote from: AY on October 26, 2014, 09:28:50 PM

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 26, 2014, 07:52:32 PM
I would DL FOR project armory if I have it, yes? Kinda confused :P

Also, its just the Realistic Weapon Pack thats up for A7, not the Fortifications? Sorry if its obvious and I'm not seeing.

Yup :P, With is the one that includes all the project armory, while the "For" version contains only the defs and textures, and requires manual overwrite of the existing mod files.
Unless you have limited bandwith/monthly usage the with version can simply replace the existing PA mod.

Thanks! Just played with this mod, very glad to finally see Deer go down from one shot from an M25, same as people (For the most part)!

DAYUM!Guns,trenches,barbed wires,what else would you ever need !?

Is fortification mod still for alpha 6?-

Quote from: Nimr_Tiger on October 27, 2014, 08:03:03 PM
Is fortification mod still for alpha 6?-

Thats the way it seems, and it makes me sad as all heck lol

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 27, 2014, 08:27:57 PM

Quote from: Nimr_Tiger on October 27, 2014, 08:03:03 PM
Is fortification mod still for alpha 6?-

Thats the way it seems, and it makes me sad as all heck lol

If it all goes well should be out this saturday/sunday  ;)

Quote from: AY on October 27, 2014, 09:30:15 PM

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 27, 2014, 08:27:57 PM

Quote from: Nimr_Tiger on October 27, 2014, 08:03:03 PM
Is fortification mod still for alpha 6?-

Thats the way it seems, and it makes me sad as all heck lol

If it all goes well should be out this saturday/sunday  ;)

If all goes better than well (AKA released earlier) I would legit cry tears of joy. Tactics are one of my highest interests and all the fortifications would help greatly :D Regardless though, take you're time, it'll be great either way :P

I just tried this mod a bit and some of the machine guns seem incredibly broken. With the longer ranged ones (PK, Brownings) its possible to mow down raiders from across the entire map, trivializing encounters. Even more so if they prepare before attacking, you can just machine gun them from inside your base and they won't even respond. What's even worse are Centipedes. Weapon ranges between 30 and 40? How are they ever supposed to get that close? Unless they drop in right on top of you there is just no way they'll ever pose a threat.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 30, 2014, 05:10:57 AM
I just tried this mod a bit and some of the machine guns seem incredibly broken. With the longer ranged ones (PK, Brownings) its possible to mow down raiders from across the entire map, trivializing encounters. Even more so if they prepare before attacking, you can just machine gun them from inside your base and they won't even respond. What's even worse are Centipedes. Weapon ranges between 30 and 40? How are they ever supposed to get that close? Unless they drop in right on top of you there is just no way they'll ever pose a threat.

This is true unfortunately...It really just seems like this mod breaks some guns instead of balancing them...Having a 200 range machine gun that fires 50 rounds and does 60 damage?What's the point of snipers anymore?Some of the Project Armoury "balanced sniper" have less range then the freaking machine guns?I still haven't looked at all the guns,but what can I say is that this mod does make guns a bit OP...A bit to much...Not trying to sound mean or anything...But did You really try to balance the weapons?

Quote from: MisterLock on October 30, 2014, 08:23:42 AM

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 30, 2014, 05:10:57 AM
I just tried this mod a bit and some of the machine guns seem incredibly broken. With the longer ranged ones (PK, Brownings) its possible to mow down raiders from across the entire map, trivializing encounters. Even more so if they prepare before attacking, you can just machine gun them from inside your base and they won't even respond. What's even worse are Centipedes. Weapon ranges between 30 and 40? How are they ever supposed to get that close? Unless they drop in right on top of you there is just no way they'll ever pose a threat.

This is true unfortunately...It really just seems like this mod breaks some guns instead of balancing them...Having a 200 range machine gun that fires 50 rounds and does 60 damage?What's the point of snipers anymore?Some of the Project Armoury "balanced sniper" have less range then the freaking machine guns?I still haven't looked at all the guns,but what can I say is that this mod does make guns a bit OP...A bit to much...Not trying to sound mean or anything...But did You really try to balance the weapons?

Its not OP. Machine Guns are extremely deadly all around. In reality they have that kind of range. They're meant to keep people down for others to flank around, but if the target sticks himself in the open, he's as good as dead. This DOES balance the weapons. I know quite a bit about firearms and this is pretty close to how most of the firearms actually function. And Snipers are still useful. I have yet to see a sniper in this game that didn't instant kill someone, or cripple a body part beyond repair. My MGs cant do that from the range they're at. Just sayin'.

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 30, 2014, 03:40:00 PM
Its not OP. Machine Guns are extremely deadly all around. In reality they have that kind of range. They're meant to keep people down for others to flank around, but if the target sticks himself in the open, he's as good as dead. This DOES balance the weapons. I know quite a bit about firearms and this is pretty close to how most of the firearms actually function. And Snipers are still useful. I have yet to see a sniper in this game that didn't instant kill someone, or cripple a body part beyond repair. My MGs cant do that from the range they're at. Just sayin'.

It is OP. And I am well aware of a machine guns typical range, however the problem is that this isn't real life. The AI doesn't stick to cover or break line of sight like an actual intelligent being would. It just stands in the open and lets itself get killed. That makes MGs broken, realism or not.

The AI is not the mod authors fault. Regardless, It's all opinion. I think they're fine and don't want them to change.

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 30, 2014, 04:04:21 PM
The AI is not the mod authors fault. Regardless, It's all opinion. I think they're fine and don't want them to change.

The range should atleast be modified.It's ridicoulous when some machine guns have like 200 range and some snipers have even less,some maps are smaller then 200 range I mean...Unless you got obstacles in the way,that' the entire map covered in one single burst of 50 rounds,and If you play on the non mountain maps then...Happy Huntin'

I'm not a gun expert,I never held a gun in my hand,probably never will,but I find it hard to belive,some bulky heavy machine gun would be able to actually be used the way it is in this mod,incredible range+hit and run tactics.From what I've gathered,machine guns are heavy and they are ussualy supported by a Bipod for less recoil,would you imagine the kickback on that thing?If it actually fired 50 rounds continously without any kind of support?(Bipod,kneeling,etc).

Maybe some things are true,maybe machine guns are indeed this way in RL,but I find it hard you can employ hit and run tactics with such a heavy iron weight in your arms.

Also the sniper is infact useless,If a machine gun has 200+ range and 50 damage AND 50 rounds,why bother with a 80 damage single shot sniper rifle?It doesn't make much sense to me,all take the incap/death chance by creating multiple bullet wounds any day then taking the cripple limb/destroy by 1 single bullet of the sniper when the Raiders themselfvs incap your snipers with freaking machineguns...

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 30, 2014, 05:10:57 AM
What's even worse are Centipedes. Weapon ranges between 30 and 40? How are they ever supposed to get that close? Unless they drop in right on top of you there is just no way they'll ever pose a threat.

Noted, this was set back when the turrets were not balanced, the centipedes will be a lot more deadly next update.

Quote from: MisterLock on October 30, 2014, 08:23:42 AM
This is true unfortunately...It really just seems like this mod breaks some guns instead of balancing them...Having a 200 range machine gun that fires 50 rounds and does 60 damage?What's the point of snipers anymore?Some of the Project Armoury "balanced sniper" have less range then the freaking machine guns?I still haven't looked at all the guns,but what can I say is that this mod does make guns a bit OP...A bit to much...Not trying to sound mean or anything...But did You really try to balance the weapons?

1. Machineguns firing lots of rounds and doing lots of damage
    That is exactly how machineguns are, as a matter of fact, they do the exact same damage as other rifles that use that calibre. Just because it shoots out a lot of bullets does not make each individual bullet less deadly. ALL of the machineguns in this mod deal the same damage per bullet as it would fired from a battle rifle of the same calibre. (20 Max, except the the M2 Browning, which fires .50 cal bullets)

2. Machineguns having ridiculous range
    The ranges in this mod are not based on arbitrary numbers, they are set to 1/5 their real life effective range, except the longer ranges weapons have their ranges SHORTENED to lessen the range difference.
    The only machinegun that I recall having a 200+ range is again, the M2 Browning, and rightfully so with 1.8km effective range and 6.8km maximum range. In fact, there are many recorded instances of machineguns, especially the M2, being used as a sniper. If you don't believe me you can look up US Marine sniper Carlos Hathcock, who used a M2 in 1967 to set the record for the longest sniper kill (at 2.286km), a record that was not surpassed until 2002.

3. If machineguns have such a long range, what are snipers for?
    While it's true that a machinegun can fire almost and some cases longer than dedicated sniper rifles, the snipers excel and precision and high damage. Most of the machineguns in this mod fires a 7.62mm bullet, which have a damage of 20, but the machineguns can barely land a shot at normal engagement ranges (5% hit chance at 40+ ranges). This is where battle rifles and (Not so op in real life) sniper rifles come in, being able to shoot out bullets mean nothing when you can't actually hit the enemy. Sniper rifles have generally 80-100 damage, with the Barretts going up to 120, and the Tac-50 going up to 150 (that thing can shoot through APCs). Compared to the machinegun CTH of 5%, snipers generally have 65% at 40+ ranges. With the capability to land such a damaging round at that accuracy snipers anything but useless.

4. Am I even trying to "balance" the weapons?
    No, this mod does not aim to "balance" the weapons for gameplay. This is called Realistic Weapons because the weapons are made to behave as they would in real life. This is more of a niche mod that suits a special group of people (e.g Battlefield/CS:GO vs Red Orchestra/ARMA)

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 30, 2014, 03:49:00 PM
It is OP. And I am well aware of a machine guns typical range, however the problem is that this isn't real life. The AI doesn't stick to cover or break line of sight like an actual intelligent being would. It just stands in the open and lets itself get killed. That makes MGs broken, realism or not.

While it is true that the combat AI is perhaps not the best one ever, it must be taken into consideration that the AI also comes in a much larger force, with disposable pawns. A death of a raider is nothing to the AI compared to the death of a colonist. If you want to play the mod as it is intended to be, and not abusing the system, (i.e M2 Browning wall of death), I would suggest that:
1. You arm your colonists the way a real life military would - Rifles and SMGs containing 90% of your force, and MGs/Snipers being used sparingly as a support weapon.
2. Don't build your base in a mountain
3. Don't build a wall around your open base.
4. Play on harder difficulties
I can say for sure that if your base is built using 2 and 3, and resembles a real town (i.e windows and streets), the raiders would be able to push you back from your sandbags and force you into CQC

Quote from: MisterLock on October 30, 2014, 05:48:31 PM

The range should atleast be modified.It's ridicoulous when some machine guns have like 200 range and some snipers have even less,some maps are smaller then 200 range I mean...Unless you got obstacles in the way,that' the entire map covered in one single burst of 50 rounds,and If you play on the non mountain maps then...Happy Huntin'

I'm not a gun expert,I never held a gun in my hand,probably never will,but I find it hard to belive,some bulky heavy machine gun would be able to actually be used the way it is in this mod,incredible range+hit and run tactics.From what I've gathered,machine guns are heavy and they are ussualy supported by a Bipod for less recoil,would you imagine the kickback on that thing?If it actually fired 50 rounds continously without any kind of support?(Bipod,kneeling,etc).

Maybe some things are true,maybe machine guns are indeed this way in RL,but I find it hard you can employ hit and run tactics with such a heavy iron weight in your arms.

Also the sniper is infact useless,If a machine gun has 200+ range and 50 damage AND 50 rounds,why bother with a 80 damage single shot sniper rifle?It doesn't make much sense to me,all take the incap/death chance by creating multiple bullet wounds any day then taking the cripple limb/destroy by 1 single bullet of the sniper when the Raiders themselfvs incap your snipers with freaking machineguns...

1. Range of MGs vs Snipers - Addressed earlier
2. MG 50 shot bursts killing everything
    Considering that at 100% gun efficiency, only 2 or 3 out of the 50 rounds will actually hit what it's aiming at, not accounting for cover mitigation, it is not that OP.

3. Ranges longer than maps
    It is explicitly said on the front page that the recommended map size for this mod is BIG (and eventually ludicrous when it gets smoothed out). Experiences using smaller maps may (and will) vary.

4. MG hit and run tactics
    I have to say here that MOST of the "machineguns" in this mod (and extends to PA) are not TRUE machineguns. Weapons such as the M249, BAR, Bren gun, and even the MG34, are actually SAWs (Squad automatic weapons). These are designed explicitly FOR the purposes of being able to be carried by one man, and being able to relocate quickly. If you don't believe me here's a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8sa8QFNEGI&list=PL8C37447F5C26EE55

The gun carried by the headcam wearer is the M249 SAW "Machinegun". In the beginning you can see him crossing the bridge, running and gunning, as well as the other M249 gunner in front of him.
As for the 50 round burst, skip to 4:39 of the video, where he fired a burst of 14 seconds standing up. I can tell you for sure that was AT LEAST 50 rounds.

True Heavy machineguns, like the M1919 (medium) machinegun, and the M60, and the M2 browning, are balanced differently than the SAW/LMGs.

5. No bipods, crouching, and proning.
    First off, weapons are planned to be able to affect the person equipping it, and they WILL be changed when that comes, as well as additions of other attachments. But at this current stage of the game, where even secondary weapons are not implemented, things will stay as they are

6. Why snipers when MGs?
    Well since you added additional points, I will respond to this topic again. It should be noted (once again) that machineguns can barely hit the broadside of a barn at the ranges of a sniper.
    Incap chances, unless playing on Randy Random, are completely dictated by the AI according to the amount of colonists you have, so that does not really factor in normally. In the case of you playing on Random, the trade off to the higher incap chance from more shots taken, is that taking more bullets = more likely to have your body parts blown apart. With the current medical system, the MGs do have a slightly higher chance to incap raiders, but they will require a lot more expensive surgery, than say hit by a single sniper bullet, and ofcourse that tradeoff is down to a player's play style.

7. Snipers being incapped by machineguns.
    I. You're not using your snipers properly, they do not belong in the front lines, put snipers behind your OWN MGs and Rifles
    II. If you have problems dealing with heavy machineguns (M1919, M60, MG42), get your own heavy Snipers, (Both variations of Barretts,      Tac50). They are very effective counters with longer ranges AND significantly higher accuracy and damage.

Quote from: MisterLock on October 30, 2014, 05:48:31 PM
I'm not a gun expert,I never held a gun in my hand,probably never will,but I find it hard to belive,some bulky heavy machine gun would be able to actually be used the way it is in this mod,incredible range+hit and run tactics.From what I've gathered,machine guns are heavy and they are ussualy supported by a Bipod for less recoil,would you imagine the kickback on that thing?If it actually fired 50 rounds continously without any kind of support?(Bipod,kneeling,etc).

Let me tell you about machine guns *takes a deep breath*

First off the difference between light and heavy machine guns (LMGs and HMGs): LMGs generally have a caliber of 7.62mm or thereabout and can be fired from the shoulder. These generally feature bipods and are used on a squad basis. HMGs on the other hand are 12.7mm or larger and can't be fired without a tripod (at least not without dislocating your shoulder). They are also really friggin heavy. An M2 alone weights 38kg, the tripod another 20kg so you need two guys just to carry the gun and a third guy to lug the ammo. Rimworld doesn't model that difference and your colonists can operate a minigun without any issue.

Now onto range. Basically MGs having range and power comparable to sniper rifles is accurate. Those things are mainly determined by barrel length and caliber and both are fairly similar for both weapon types. In fact one of the longest recorded sniper kills was made with a Browning M2 so it is realistic. The main difference between MGs and sniper rifles is rate of fire and accuracy. With sniper rifles you take your time to set up your shot so it has a very high chance of hitting, whereas MGs are fired in bursts. Large calibers mean heavy recoil especially on a 10 round burst or so and so accuracy is abysmal even with bi-/tripods. Now if you look at real life modern infantry combat you generally have dispersed targets behind cover and hitting a man-sized target at 400m is no small feat even if it doesn't conceal a large portion of itself behind cover/goes prone. In this environment you are much better off with the precise rifle if you want to kill an enemy because even the increased ROF won't make up for terrible accuracy. Now if you have more of a WWI/D-Day kinda scenario where you have massed infantry charging over open fields you are of course much better off with the MG because the targets are easy to hit and the ROF allows you to mow them down quickly.

The mod models this pretty accurately I think, with lone stragglers being best engaged by sniper rifles while massed tribal charges are quickly put down by MG fire. However issues come up in the AI which doesn't really know how to deal with that kind of situation and will stand in the open like nothing is happening. Now I'm not too familiar with the modding for this game but I think the AI is probably beyond the scope of this mod. What can and IMO should be changed is the burst size. Not only to balance things out a bit so one MG can't stop a tribal raid all by itself, but also to add to realism. In reality you don't fire 50 round bursts 24/7. Your barrel would overheat (and if you don't have earplugs those would probably be gone as well). You could reduce burst sizes to 20 or so and still be well within the realms of realism while balancing things out a bit. It would even keep with your own metric of burst=1/5 of the magazine since AFAIK most LMGs use 100 round belts. In some cases like the PK you have larger belt sizes available but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the smaller belt size for the sake of smoother gameplay. Might also consider removing the "preparing before attack" type raids seeing as they are broken.

Damn, here I am typing this wall of text only to get ninja'd by another. It even mentions Hathcock. As to your suggestions, here (http://i.imgur.com/y9TqryO.jpg) is a screen of one of my colonies. The specific incident that prompted me to post was some raiders preparing for attack about where those other raiders are. I set up one guy with a PK where Hull is standing and he took out the entire raid by himself. I also organize my guys into fireteams consisting of 2 ARs, 1 MG and 1 Shotgun/SMG with one team replacing the Shotgun/SMG with a sniper rifle. This is on Challenging difficulty on a 350x350 map. Now as an ArmA fan I wanna say I really appreciate someone making a mod like this focused primarily on realism however I would still like to be able to use a PK without feeling like I'm cheating.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 30, 2014, 07:26:39 PM
The mod models this pretty accurately I think, with lone stragglers being best engaged by sniper rifles while massed tribal charges are quickly put down by MG fire. However issues come up in the AI which doesn't really know how to deal with that kind of situation and will stand in the open like nothing is happening. Now I'm not too familiar with the modding for this game but I think the AI is probably beyond the scope of this mod. What can and IMO should be changed is the burst size. Not only to balance things out a bit so one MG can't stop a tribal raid all by itself, but also to add to realism. In reality you don't fire 50 round bursts 24/7. Your barrel would overheat (and if you don't have earplugs those would probably be gone as well). You could reduce burst sizes to 20 or so and still be well within the realms of realism while balancing things out a bit. It would even keep with your own metric of burst=1/5 of the magazine since AFAIK most LMGs use 100 round belts. In some cases like the PK you have larger belt sizes available but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the smaller belt size for the sake of smoother gameplay. Might also consider removing the "preparing before attack" type raids seeing as they are broken.

Damn, here I am typing this wall of text only to get ninja'd by another. It even mentions Hathcock. As to your suggestions, here (http://i.imgur.com/y9TqryO.jpg) is a screen of one of my colonies. The specific incident that prompted me to post was some raiders preparing for attack about where those other raiders are. I set up one guy with a PK where Hull is standing and he took out the entire raid by himself. I also organize my guys into fireteams consisting of 2 ARs, 1 MG and 1 Shotgun/SMG with one team replacing the Shotgun/SMG with a sniper rifle. This is on Challenging difficulty on a 350x350 map. Now as an ArmA fan I wanna say I really appreciate someone making a mod like this focused primarily on realism however I would still like to be able to use a PK without feeling like I'm cheating.

More Suggestions: You must now give Hull the nickname "Rambo".  :P

As for the PK, I chose the 200 round belt as the standard due to it having also 100 round belts and 250 round belts. It would be unfair to give it its minimal capabilities when compared to other weapons.

I think I have an idea why the enemy raiders did not respond properly to your MG. Raiders are basically given a set "allowance" to spawn their weapons, with the lowest cost being the most common and higher costs being more rare (which is great at preventing overflooding of raider MGs). The drawback to this is that, because Project Armory adds such a wide variety of weapons, that many of the raiders spawn with cheap, prewar weapons that are simply inefficient (i.e the ridiculous amount of Sjorgen rifles) and does not prompt the AI to return fire due to them not being able to get in range without walking out of the area they are allowed in when preparing (which is useful for things like sniper harassment, and if I recall correctly they will attack if they spot your sniper due to bad placement). I would say:
Use the Kit Switcher provided in the main directory of the mod, and deactivate ALL of the other weapon eras that you do not need, so that the AI can pick weapons for the raiders more efficiently.

For example, using your case, I would recommend disabling: Prewar Weapons, WWI weapons, Medieval Weapons, Civil War Weapons, Flintlock Weapons, Prohibition weapons, and Sci-fi weapons, as well as Melee weapons in the last "Weapon" section.

Leaving only: Modern Weapons/Launchers, WWII weapons, and Vanilla weapons (which can also be disabled if you do not like the generic names, however it will severely weaken the mechanoids).
This should help the AI pick weapons that can fight off your harassment much more efficiently.

I haven't used this mod but reading through your code :

1. Browning doesn't slow down person nor it reduce work speed. Great, now you can work with browning on one hand and mining with bare hand, while running around without any penalty and even hit and run like as if it's pistol or bow.

I think weapons like this should been just mountable turret..


2. Heavy Charge Blaster damage is 20, Charge rifle damage is 20, LMG damage 20, but Blaster range is 30, charge Rifle is 75 while LMG is 240. Blaster is supposed to be most deadliest weapon in the rim world and seems man-kind can't even reproduce anything similar, but now it's weaker than even spear or bow, and obviously weaker than LMG or minigun..

3. Uzi and Pistol damage is 12, meaning 3 shot in the crotch or arm and LIMB LITERALLY SCATTER INTO PIECES.

4. Charge lance has 50 damage, throwing has 30 damage, two throwing spear is literally deadlier than Charge lance.

5. Shotgun can't hit more than one person.

6. Stabbed by Shiv in the crotch twice, again, LIMB LITERALLY SCATTER INTO PIECES.

it should been very low damage like 3-4, but hitting very quick so target die out of blood or pain.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 30, 2014, 07:26:39 PM

Quote from: MisterLock on October 30, 2014, 05:48:31 PM
I'm not a gun expert,I never held a gun in my hand,probably never will,but I find it hard to belive,some bulky heavy machine gun would be able to actually be used the way it is in this mod,incredible range+hit and run tactics.From what I've gathered,machine guns are heavy and they are ussualy supported by a Bipod for less recoil,would you imagine the kickback on that thing?If it actually fired 50 rounds continously without any kind of support?(Bipod,kneeling,etc).

Let me tell you about machine guns *takes a deep breath*

Now onto range. Basically MGs having range and power comparable to sniper rifles is accurate. Those things are mainly determined by barrel length and caliber and both are fairly similar for both weapon types. In fact one of the longest recorded sniper kills was made with a Browning M2 so it is realistic. The main difference between MGs and sniper rifles is rate of fire and accuracy. With sniper rifles you take your time to set up your shot so it has a very high chance of hitting, whereas MGs are fired in bursts. Large calibers mean heavy recoil especially on a 10 round burst or so and so accuracy is abysmal even with bi-/tripods. Now if you look at real life modern infantry combat you generally have dispersed targets behind cover and hitting a man-sized target at 400m is no small feat even if it doesn't conceal a large portion of itself behind cover/goes prone. In this environment you are much better off with the precise rifle if you want to kill an enemy because even the increased ROF won't make up for terrible accuracy. Now if you have more of a WWI/D-Day kinda scenario where you have massed infantry charging over open fields you are of course much better off with the MG because the targets are easy to hit and the ROF allows you to mow them down quickly.

Current realistic weaponry mod reduce sniper accuracy , and doesn't even use hit chance factor so it's even terrible, even minigun has higher accuracy if you consider fire rate.

Current game hit-or-miss calculator is just bad, if there's gun that has 100% chance hit, if it's dark accuracy decreased by 40%, become 60%. If there's two bush it become 42%(iirc embrasure reduce accuracy by 90%, which make sniper even useless, and only way to hit is make explosion or "shoot a lot".), if it's raining it become 16%, now if shooter accuracy is calculated it's basically 1%, meaning only way to reliably hit is shoot a lot(which make minigun accurater than sniper.), or make kill box with hydroponic basin(doesn't provide cover) and lamps.

Also accuracy doesn't really matter if <forcedMissRadius> is used, it will just hit near target ground regardless of accuracy. (which, AY forgot to type into code, while all other heavy weapons like minigun use.)

Also I think minigun wasn't supposed to be used by colonist. even description says "Mechanoid-built", meaning weapons like browning is supposed to only useable by tower or robot, for realistic-wise.

Quote from: AY on October 30, 2014, 08:01:36 PM
As for the PK, I chose the 200 round belt as the standard due to it having also 100 round belts and 250 round belts. It would be unfair to give it its minimal capabilities when compared to other weapons.

Fair enough. I'll try the kit switcher and see how it changes things.

Quote from: Aristocat on October 31, 2014, 02:43:40 AM
I haven't used this mod but reading through your code :

1. Browning doesn't slow down person nor it reduce work speed. Great, now you can work with browning on one hand and mining with bare hand, while running around without any penalty and even hit and run like as if it's pistol or bow.

I think weapons like this should been just mountable turret..


2. Heavy Charge Blaster damage is 20, Charge rifle damage is 20, LMG damage 20, but Blaster range is 30, charge Rifle is 75 while LMG is 240. Blaster is supposed to be most deadliest weapon in the rim world and seems man-kind can't even reproduce anything similar, but now it's weaker than even spear or bow, and obviously weaker than LMG or minigun..

3. Uzi and Pistol damage is 12, meaning 3 shot in the crotch or arm and LIMB LITERALLY SCATTER INTO PIECES.

4. Charge lance has 50 damage, throwing has 30 damage, two throwing spear is literally deadlier than Charge lance.

5. Shotgun can't hit more than one person.

6. Stabbed by Shiv in the crotch twice, again, LIMB LITERALLY SCATTER INTO PIECES.

it should been very low damage like 3-4, but hitting very quick so target die out of blood or pain.

Current realistic weaponry mod reduce sniper accuracy , and doesn't even use hit chance factor so it's even terrible, even minigun has higher accuracy if you consider fire rate.

Current game hit-or-miss calculator is just bad, if there's gun that has 100% chance hit, if it's dark accuracy decreased by 40%, become 60%. If there's two bush it become 42%(iirc embrasure reduce accuracy by 90%, which make sniper even useless, and only way to hit is make explosion or "shoot a lot".), if it's raining it become 16%, now if shooter accuracy is calculated it's basically 1%, meaning only way to reliably hit is shoot a lot(which make minigun accurater than sniper.), or make kill box with hydroponic basin(doesn't provide cover) and lamps.

Also accuracy doesn't really matter if <forcedMissRadius> is used, it will just hit near target ground regardless of accuracy. (which, AY forgot to type into code, while all other heavy weapons like minigun use.)

Also I think minigun wasn't supposed to be used by colonist. even description says "Mechanoid-built", meaning weapons like browning is supposed to only useable by tower or robot, for realistic-wise.

1. Browning Rambo-mode
    Hopefully Tynan implements the ability for weapons to affect wearer's soon. For now, that's all I have to work with. Also, HMGs like the browning have high cooldown times, which means that after a pawn fires it, it does not simply "hit and run" as you say. It has to stick around in that place until it "packs up" the weapon. Also, if you know how machineguns are used in real life, and use them that way, you would not be "hitting and running" with them.

2.Blaster not the most deadly
    I'll get around to researching the Sci Fi weapons, eventually.
    EDIT: Ok, the description of Heavy Charge Blaster is simply: "Charged-shot blaster for area suppressive fire. Mechanoid-built." It is said to be a suppressive fire weapon, and I gave it 24 shots for that specific reason; to suppress an area. While it might be your own interpretation that it is the "most deadliest" weapon there is, that is all it is. Also, it is definitely NOT weaker than bow and arrows and spears, because those take forever to warmup, and have 1 single shot of equal damage, while the blaster has 24. A weapon's effectiveness is not only measured by its range.

3. Body parts get destroyed really easily
    I have a feeling that the medical system will be expanded later on, so I'm hesitant about changing the body part durabilities. Basically "Destroyed" limb just means it's requires surgery to properly heal/needs to be replaced completely because that's easier in the future.
    EDIT: Just did a test, while it's true that limbs will be "destroyed" after a few shots, but you forgot to take into consideration how OFTEN it occurs, 80-85% of the dead pawns simply died of gunshots and did not have anything destroyed. About 10% have their fingers and toes and noses shot off, and an occasional eye here and there; Most of the rest have an organ destroyed/a shattered bone(which is quite normal in a gunfight, your organs and bones aren't built to withstand that). Having any limbs shot off is VERY RARE, out of the 50+ dead raiders, only 1 had a hand shot off, and another had a leg shot off. To actually have a limb shot off AND survive is VERY VERY RARE, I doubt it will come up more than once or twice from 10+ full scale raids and break your immersion (because it is still possible to get a limb shot off an survive).
    So no, shivs are not going to shatter any limbs anytime soon.

4. Forced miss radius
    It is in the code of some very heavy weapons, albeit significantly reduced, considering the normal accuracy is quite low. For those that have the forcedmissradius, I have significantly reduced them. It is quite unnecessary for it to even be IN this mod, so no, I did not forget to put it in the code.

5. Sniper has terrible accuracy
    And rightfully so, snipers are still guns, they do not suddenly become deadly weapons that hit everything everywhere just by being a "sniper". This is why having a hit chance factor is simply unnecessary. A sniper having a scope making it much easier to aim and target vital spots is already modeled with its much higher accuracy and damage. To FULLY UTILIZE the effectiveness of a sniper, it should be given to a colonist with VERY HIGH SHOOTING SKILLS. At the right hands, Snipers are very useful to harrass raider camps and to take out important targets. They should not be directly compared to machineguns at efficiency because these do very different things, and excel at their own roles. MGs are great for taking a lot of grouped enemy very fast, while snipers are great for taking out lone targets at range.
    So yes, using your scenario, the chance of shooting at night while raining through 2 bushes should be and will be <1%

6. Takes a lot of bullets to kill anything because of low accuracy
    Because that is exactly how modern gun fights are fought, even for snipers, the one shot one kill stereotype is not remotely accurate when it comes to large group to group fighting. No, battles do not have to be contained in killboxes, if you actually use the combined arms aspect and properly utilize the flexibility of rifles, the suppressive ability of machineguns, the range and accuracy of snipers, and maneuver your troops to their flanks, a large open battle is VERY feasible, even more feasible than vanilla. Just ask anyone that actually uses this mod, and take a look at NoImageAvailiable's image of his base, which is the opposite of using a killbox. S/he has quite extensive knowledge on how real life battles work and can answer why things in this mod are the way they are.

All dem quotes.

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 31, 2014, 06:16:04 PM
All dem quotes.

The fortifications mod is now up to Alpha 7  ;). Both the trenches and barbed wires are completed; However, since the Embrasures mod have not been completely updated some textures and features are still missing.

Based Ay. Its great to see this mod still going along well, i actually stopped playing Rimworld until this mod got updated.

Quote from: AY on October 31, 2014, 07:28:57 PM

Quote from: SundayTuesday on October 31, 2014, 06:16:04 PM
All dem quotes.

The fortifications mod is now up to Alpha 7  ;). Both the trenches and barbed wires are completed; However, since the Embrasures mod have not been completely updated some textures and features are still missing.

AAAAA YES

Quote from: AY on October 31, 2014, 08:19:01 AM
1. Browning Rambo-mode
    Hopefully Tynan implements the ability for weapons to affect wearer's soon. For now, that's all I have to work with. Also, HMGs like the browning have high cooldown times, which means that after a pawn fires it, it does not simply "hit and run" as you say. It has to stick around in that place until it "packs up" the weapon. Also, if you know how machineguns are used in real life, and use them that way, you would not be "hitting and running" with them.

2.Blaster not the most deadly
    I'll get around to researching the Sci Fi weapons, eventually.
    EDIT: Ok, the description of Heavy Charge Blaster is simply: "Charged-shot blaster for area suppressive fire. Mechanoid-built." It is said to be a suppressive fire weapon, and I gave it 24 shots for that specific reason; to suppress an area. While it might be your own interpretation that it is the "most deadliest" weapon there is, that is all it is. Also, it is definitely NOT weaker than bow and arrows and spears, because those take forever to warmup, and have 1 single shot of equal damage, while the blaster has 24. A weapon's effectiveness is not only measured by its range.

3. Body parts get destroyed really easily
    I have a feeling that the medical system will be expanded later on, so I'm hesitant about changing the body part durabilities. Basically "Destroyed" limb just means it's requires surgery to properly heal/needs to be replaced completely because that's easier in the future.
    EDIT: Just did a test, while it's true that limbs will be "destroyed" after a few shots, but you forgot to take into consideration how OFTEN it occurs, 80-85% of the dead pawns simply died of gunshots and did not have anything destroyed. About 10% have their fingers and toes and noses shot off, and an occasional eye here and there; Most of the rest have an organ destroyed/a shattered bone(which is quite normal in a gunfight, your organs and bones aren't built to withstand that). Having any limbs shot off is VERY RARE, out of the 50+ dead raiders, only 1 had a hand shot off, and another had a leg shot off. To actually have a limb shot off AND survive is VERY VERY RARE, I doubt it will come up more than once or twice from 10+ full scale raids and break your immersion (because it is still possible to get a limb shot off an survive).
    So no, shivs are not going to shatter any limbs anytime soon.

4. Forced miss radius
    It is in the code of some very heavy weapons, albeit significantly reduced, considering the normal accuracy is quite low. For those that have the forcedmissradius, I have significantly reduced them. It is quite unnecessary for it to even be IN this mod, so no, I did not forget to put it in the code.

5. Sniper has terrible accuracy
    And rightfully so, snipers are still guns, they do not suddenly become deadly weapons that hit everything everywhere just by being a "sniper". This is why having a hit chance factor is simply unnecessary. A sniper having a scope making it much easier to aim and target vital spots is already modeled with its much higher accuracy and damage. To FULLY UTILIZE the effectiveness of a sniper, it should be given to a colonist with VERY HIGH SHOOTING SKILLS. At the right hands, Snipers are very useful to harrass raider camps and to take out important targets. They should not be directly compared to machineguns at efficiency because these do very different things, and excel at their own roles. MGs are great for taking a lot of grouped enemy very fast, while snipers are great for taking out lone targets at range.
    So yes, using your scenario, the chance of shooting at night while raining through 2 bushes should be and will be <1%

6. Takes a lot of bullets to kill anything because of low accuracy
    Because that is exactly how modern gun fights are fought, even for snipers, the one shot one kill stereotype is not remotely accurate when it comes to large group to group fighting. No, battles do not have to be contained in killboxes, if you actually use the combined arms aspect and properly utilize the flexibility of rifles, the suppressive ability of machineguns, the range and accuracy of snipers, and maneuver your troops to their flanks, a large open battle is VERY feasible, even more feasible than vanilla. Just ask anyone that actually uses this mod, and take a look at NoImageAvailiable's image of his base, which is the opposite of using a killbox. S/he has quite extensive knowledge on how real life battles work and can answer why things in this mod are the way they are.

1.

      <equippedStatOffsets>
      <MoveSpeed>-1.5</MoveSpeed>
         <WorkSpeedGlobal>-0.8</WorkSpeedGlobal>
      </equippedStatOffsets>

It's already implemented a month ago or so(alpha 6 or 7).

2.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pIZyKif0bFbBWten4drrm7kfSSfvBoJPgG9-ywfN8j8/pub

"The game takes place at a time about 3,500 years in our future. This is the year 5500 in our calendar."

"Charged-shot weapons (aka Tokamak weapons) - Charged shot weapons fire projectiles coated in a matrix of magnetically-contained charged particles. On impact, the energy in the particles is released in a very efficient explosion. These require high amounts of power to fire and are powered by hex-cells (at small scales) or fusion reactors in the case of large cannons."

"Heavy combat mechanoids that glide on dozens of tiny legs. Their heavy armor and firepower makes them very effective against bunched-up static defenders. They are somewhat vulnerable to mobile hit-and-run tactics."

"Transcendent worlds - Worlds inhabited by people who have become something beyond human and unknowable. No “people” live here; these planets aren’t planets any more in the traditional sense; they’re more like giant computers."

Quote from: Aristocat on November 01, 2014, 07:31:31 AM
1.

      <equippedStatOffsets>
      <MoveSpeed>-1.5</MoveSpeed>
         <WorkSpeedGlobal>-0.8</WorkSpeedGlobal>
      </equippedStatOffsets>

It's already implemented a month ago or so(alpha 6 or 7).

2.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pIZyKif0bFbBWten4drrm7kfSSfvBoJPgG9-ywfN8j8/pub

"The game takes place at a time about 3,500 years in our future. This is the year 5500 in our calendar."

"Charged-shot weapons (aka Tokamak weapons) - Charged shot weapons fire projectiles coated in a matrix of magnetically-contained charged particles. On impact, the energy in the particles is released in a very efficient explosion. These require high amounts of power to fire and are powered by hex-cells (at small scales) or fusion reactors in the case of large cannons."

"Heavy combat mechanoids that glide on dozens of tiny legs. Their heavy armor and firepower makes them very effective against bunched-up static defenders. They are somewhat vulnerable to mobile hit-and-run tactics."

"Transcendent worlds - Worlds inhabited by people who have become something beyond human and unknowable. No �people� live here; these planets aren�t planets any more in the traditional sense; they�re more like giant computers."

1. Thanks for bringing that into my attention, will be added to the mod shortly.
2. All it says are that blaster weapons uses advanced magnetic technology to contain the particles, and that it requires a lot of energy to fire. It does not imply that energy weapons are as you say "supposed to be most deadliest weapon in the rim world and seems man-kind can't even reproduce anything similar".

This may be a dumb question, but is there anyway to make a downloadable .zip file for this mod? i love it to death but im on a mac and .rar files make my computer sad..
:-\

Use the unarchiver! I have mac too, and it can challenge .rar files too. It's on the app store.

Quote from: the_hawkk on November 03, 2014, 02:59:28 PM
This may be a dumb question, but is there anyway to make a downloadable .zip file for this mod? i love it to death but im on a mac and .rar files make my computer sad..
:-\

Quote from: Iwillbenicetou on November 03, 2014, 03:20:03 PM
Use the unarchiver! I have mac too, and it can challenge .rar files too. It's on the app store.

If it doesn't work, I can upload an uncompressed version.  :)

Does the fortifications mod make any changes to doors/autodoors? I have noticed that after installing that mod, any new doors I installed lack the second "lock" option button, the one that allows you to cycle between normal/key access/lockdown/always open - there is only the button that allows for lockdown/normal operation. Doors that I had installed prior to the addition of this mod still have that second button.

Quote from: VStraken on November 04, 2014, 05:31:55 AM
Does the fortifications mod make any changes to doors/autodoors? I have noticed that after installing that mod, any new doors I installed lack the second "lock" option button, the one that allows you to cycle between normal/key access/lockdown/always open - there is only the button that allows for lockdown/normal operation. Doors that I had installed prior to the addition of this mod still have that second button.

Technically it does, but it only adds a damage modifier that makes them more durable. What other mods are you using?

Pretty much all the latest versions of these mods, except for refrigeration. I was using the ED Embrasures previously but turned it off. The problem seems to persist even when I make a new world and colony.

Core
A2B
AnimuHair
Apparello
DusterJacket
ED-Core
TTMAnimalHusbandryA7
TargetPractise
Refrigeration 1.03
ProjectArmory215
Mining & Co. Common
Mining & Co. Deepdriller+MMS
MAI
EdBInterface
EdBPrepareCarefully
ED-DeepStrike
ED-LaserDrill
ED-OmniGel
ED-PersonalShields
ED-Shields
ED-WirelessPower
NewRecipeNurse
ProjectArmoryEquipmentRack
Apothecarius
Miscellaneous_-_HiRes
Pforzheim
SurgeryExtendedAndBonics
Fortifications Mod

Quote from: VStraken on November 04, 2014, 08:18:02 PM
Pretty much all the latest versions of these mods, except for refrigeration. I was using the ED Embrasures previously but turned it off. The problem seems to persist even when I make a new world and colony.

I know for sure it's not the fortifications mod, because the lock button does show up on mine. It's most likely the EdB interface mod conflicting, try disabling it and generating a test world, and check if the problem still persists.

I tried a bunch of things involving the interface and the fortifications, and the only options so far that has brought back that button have been to remove both mods or just fortifications. unfortunately. Maybe another mod?

Quote from: VStraken on November 04, 2014, 09:28:37 PM
I tried a bunch of things involving the interface and the fortifications, and the only options so far that has brought back that button have been to remove both mods or just fortifications. unfortunately. Maybe another mod?

Try disabling the following individually:
ED Core - And other ED stuff
Refrigeration - I have a few bugs running that as well
Target Practice
Mining & Co.

These are the only mods you have that also have the chance of over-writing the Buildings_Structure file.

Found it, it's Mining & Co. Deepdriller, specifically. Deactivating it got back the button. And interestingly enough, I think I found that there's a way to get them to work together and have the button stay! I thought my saves would be lost, and good enough when I turned off either Fortification or Deepdriller, then the save would cause the world (not the interface - you can still open/close the console and the esc menu in order to go back to main menu) to turn all white. Turning them both back on made the white screen go away, but the console would still come up with errors (it seems they were related to non-player factions being present on the map). Turning them back on and then restarting the game produced no problems at all - the button is there, the screen is clear, and there are no errors! Might it be a load order conflict or something?

EDIT: To clarify, I had both Fortifications and Deepdriller active, then deactivated Deepdriller and it broke the saves; I then reactivated it and restarted the game and the saves worked.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 31, 2014, 04:23:16 AM
Fair enough. I'll try the kit switcher and see how it changes things.

So I did some more testing and here is what I found:

• Using the kit switcher to disable any pre-WWII weapons helps even the playing field for pirates.
• Map choice matters a lot. 400x400 Flat or Small Hills tends to create large open fields that are dominated by long range weapons, especially since foliage doesn't affect gunfire. Large Hills and Mountains is less lopsided because you'll have terrain blocking line of sight. Smaller maps reduce the effect of this since enemies spawn closer to your colony. 350x350 Small Hills is okay and anything smaller should be fine as well.
• Removing rocks from enemy approaches kinda breaks the AI of larger raids in that they'll charge straight at you instead of taking cover behind trees.

I also found some oddities in the stats of some of the fictional weapons. The R-4 has 20 damage with 3 round bursts, 75 range and a market value of 500. An AK-47 has 20 damage with 6 round bursts, 60 range and a market value of 325. Now this is all just personal opinion since obviously there is no real R-4 charge rifle but you'd think the significantly more advanced design would perform better than the obsolete one. As it stands it is actually worse, because 15 range isn't worth halved burst size. The 40k Bolters are even weirder, they do 16 damage despite firing .75cal ammo. Mechanoid weapons I already mentioned.

Another thing I noticed is that the mod seems to treat the AKS-74U as an assault rifle when it is really an SMG version of the AKS-74. The thing has a barrel length of 210mm (that is less than an MP5) with an effective range of ~200m and its use is mainly as self-defense weapon on vehicle crews or as a compact automatic weapon for police and spec-ops, the only commonality with assault rifles is that it uses 5.45x39 ammo.

Thanks thats what I was asking for, a tile that slows down the enemy, like barbed wires!

Quote from: VStraken on November 04, 2014, 10:44:58 PM
Found it, it's Mining & Co. Deepdriller, specifically. Deactivating it got back the button. And interestingly enough, I think I found that there's a way to get them to work together and have the button stay! I thought my saves would be lost, and good enough when I turned off either Fortification or Deepdriller, then the save would cause the world (not the interface - you can still open/close the console and the esc menu in order to go back to main menu) to turn all white. Turning them both back on made the white screen go away, but the console would still come up with errors (it seems they were related to non-player factions being present on the map). Turning them back on and then restarting the game produced no problems at all - the button is there, the screen is clear, and there are no errors! Might it be a load order conflict or something?

EDIT: To clarify, I had both Fortifications and Deepdriller active, then deactivated Deepdriller and it broke the saves; I then reactivated it and restarted the game and the saves worked.

Most likely load order overwriting some stuff that shouldn't be. Glad to see you get it working again.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on November 05, 2014, 05:43:20 AM

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on October 31, 2014, 04:23:16 AM
Fair enough. I'll try the kit switcher and see how it changes things.

So I did some more testing and here is what I found:

• Using the kit switcher to disable any pre-WWII weapons helps even the playing field for pirates.
• Map choice matters a lot. 400x400 Flat or Small Hills tends to create large open fields that are dominated by long range weapons, especially since foliage doesn't affect gunfire. Large Hills and Mountains is less lopsided because you'll have terrain blocking line of sight. Smaller maps reduce the effect of this since enemies spawn closer to your colony. 350x350 Small Hills is okay and anything smaller should be fine as well.
• Removing rocks from enemy approaches kinda breaks the AI of larger raids in that they'll charge straight at you instead of taking cover behind trees.

I also found some oddities in the stats of some of the fictional weapons. The R-4 has 20 damage with 3 round bursts, 75 range and a market value of 500. An AK-47 has 20 damage with 6 round bursts, 60 range and a market value of 325. Now this is all just personal opinion since obviously there is no real R-4 charge rifle but you'd think the significantly more advanced design would perform better than the obsolete one. As it stands it is actually worse, because 15 range isn't worth halved burst size. The 40k Bolters are even weirder, they do 16 damage despite firing .75cal ammo. Mechanoid weapons I already mentioned.

Another thing I noticed is that the mod seems to treat the AKS-74U as an assault rifle when it is really an SMG version of the AKS-74. The thing has a barrel length of 210mm (that is less than an MP5) with an effective range of ~200m and its use is mainly as self-defense weapon on vehicle crews or as a compact automatic weapon for police and spec-ops, the only commonality with assault rifles is that it uses 5.45x39 ammo.

I will admit I have not done enough research in this matter  :P . Although I must say, weapon balance with over 100 different ones from different eras is a pain in the a$$ to keep track of. The one's you have pointed out will be fixed next update.

Quote from: AY on November 05, 2014, 10:14:53 PM
I will admit I have not done enough research in this matter  :P . Although I must say, weapon balance with over 100 different ones from different eras is a pain in the a$$ to keep track of. The one's you have pointed out will be fixed next update.

If it can help you I've also noticed some similar things with other guns as pointed out by the previous poster. I've noticed that the G36C, also an SMG-sized assault rifle, has a range of 120 which almost competes with some sniper rifles, while other full-size assault rifles and even battle rifles of the same caliber have 2/3 or 1/2 of this range. For comparison, the M16 (which also uses the same caliber) has a range of 80, while the M25 sniper rifle has a range of 135.

I do have others on the same vein and can post them if it would help you. I otherwise find this mod a great change from the original combat in the game and hope you keep going with it!

Quote from: VStraken on November 06, 2014, 02:11:11 AM

Quote from: AY on November 05, 2014, 10:14:53 PM
I will admit I have not done enough research in this matter  :P . Although I must say, weapon balance with over 100 different ones from different eras is a pain in the a$$ to keep track of. The one's you have pointed out will be fixed next update.

If it can help you I've also noticed some similar things with other guns as pointed out by the previous poster. I've noticed that the G36C, also an SMG-sized assault rifle, has a range of 120 which almost competes with some sniper rifles, while other full-size assault rifles and even battle rifles of the same caliber have 2/3 or 1/2 of this range. For comparison, the M16 (which also uses the same caliber) has a range of 80, while the M25 sniper rifle has a range of 135.

I do have others on the same vein and can post them if it would help you. I otherwise find this mod a great change from the original combat in the game and hope you keep going with it!

Will be fixed the next update. Please point out any balancing issues you see, it would help a lot.  :)

v2.1 Change Log: (Should be out by this weekend) (Delayed due to more changes)

Game play:
-Adds workspeed and walkspeed slow downs
-    - Walkspeed: Default walkspeed = 4.6 tiles/sec. Changes will be - 0.1 Tile/sec for every 1 kg a weapon weighs ( e.g - 0.4 tiles/sec for M16: 4kg, - 3.8 tiles/sec for M2 Browning: 38kg )
-    - Workspeed: - 2% for every kg a weapon weighs ( e.g - 8% for M16, - 76% for M2 Browning )
-    - Sci-fi weapons: Will be determined based on wikia values, if possible. Otherwise will be given an approximate value.

- More accurate portrayals of the different sci-fi weapons ( For most weapons based on sci-fi series )

Balance:
- All Mechanoid weapons will be buffed
- AKS - 74U rerolled as SMG
- R4 charge rifle range increase by 25
- R4 charge rifle round bursts increase from 3 to 4
- G36C range decrease by 20 to 100*
- M16 range increase by 20 to 100*

Notes:
* Both the M16 and G36C have a max effective range of 800m, while the M25 has a 900m max effective range

I'm surprised that such a short gun like the G36C could have such a long range... I've looked on the wikipedia entry for the gun and I do see the same value, but I must say I remain skeptical, I'm going to do some poking around since wiki, while helpful, can still be mistaken. I'll let you know what I find.

EDIT: This site seems to indicate that the G36C has a range of 200m, while it's full sized big brother, the G36, has a range of 400m: http://weaponsystems.net/weapon.php?weapon=AA04%20-%20G36

Additionally I found the US Army Manual for the M16/M16A1, which indicates that those rifles have a max effective range of 460m: https://archive.org/stream/OperatorsManualForM16M16a1#page/n27/mode/2up

Incidentally, I also found this comparison article on wikipedia between the AK-47 and the M16; judging by the sources I've seen used on it, it may be a more accurate source of info on those guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16

I'm wondering if perhaps it may be helpful if you had volunteers to dig around for this kind of information and verify its accuracy? I for one would be willing to do that, if you would like.

^ I have to second that, assault rifles usually have their effective range put at ~400m, getting 800m with iron sights is extremely optimistic. And with a barrel length of 228mm for the G36C there is no way it could have that kind of range since it directly influences how much kinetic energy gets imparted on the bullet.

PS Going with the above poster's suggestion I'd be willing to do some fact checking myself. I don't have a military background but I do read a lot about firearms and lurk on a lot of military boards so I picked up a thing or two.

Extemely op puts weapons from other mods to shame but definately realistic and awesome!

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on November 07, 2014, 01:52:55 AM

PS Going with the above poster's suggestion I'd be willing to do some fact checking myself. I don't have a military background but I do read a lot about firearms and lurk on a lot of military boards so I picked up a thing or two.

Quote from: VStraken on November 06, 2014, 09:56:27 PM

I'm wondering if perhaps it may be helpful if you had volunteers to dig around for this kind of information and verify its accuracy? I for one would be willing to do that, if you would like.

That would be great, having more people verify the accuracy of the values would definitely speed up the process and allow more time to be spent on each of the 153 weapons.

Quote from: VStraken on November 06, 2014, 09:56:27 PM
EDIT: This site seems to indicate that the G36C has a range of 200m, while it's full sized big brother, the G36, has a range of 400m: http://weaponsystems.net/weapon.php?weapon=AA04%20-%20G36

Additionally I found the US Army Manual for the M16/M16A1, which indicates that those rifles have a max effective range of 460m: https://archive.org/stream/OperatorsManualForM16M16a1#page/n27/mode/2up

Incidentally, I also found this comparison article on wikipedia between the AK-47 and the M16; judging by the sources I've seen used on it, it may be a more accurate source of info on those guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on November 07, 2014, 01:52:55 AM
^ I have to second that, assault rifles usually have their effective range put at ~400m, getting 800m with iron sights is extremely optimistic. And with a barrel length of 228mm for the G36C there is no way it could have that kind of range since it directly influences how much kinetic energy gets imparted on the bullet.

All of the values are currently based off of Wikipedia, as I have yet to find another site that covers such a wide range of weapons, especially for older weapons. The Weapon Systems.net offers quite in-depth information about some of the more famous modern weapons and its variants, although it is missing info on quite a number of weapons.

I also don't have a military background but I just happen to have a lot of free time on my hands and like looking things up. I'll give it my best shot though!

I also happened to find something that may be worth reading, it's a writeup about what effective range means. Maybe it will help out in guiding your decisions, and it has some info about a few guns currently in the mod.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

Sadly the rest of the site doesn't provide much information about the specifications of guns, from what I saw - and I'm getting the vibe that it might be a bit more difficult to find accurate info about foreign/non-US guns, based on what how the guy who wrote that article said in the little table as to the sources of the weapon ranges he listed.

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly - both have 500m effective range (point range, if you've read the article); more substantial variation might depend on things like rate of fire between the guns. From there, it might be reasonable to assume for practical purposes that guns with similar caliber and barrel length would have similar range, and you just plug in the value from those guns for that new gun in the absence of accurate info for the new gun.

EDIT: Another bit of balance/accuracy issue for you. I've managed to get an MG42 and that gun is beastly, perhaps overly so. Each burst has 120 rounds fired from it, and its listed RPM ingame is 3600, which is not quite true to life since as I can see the MG42 had a RPM of 1100-1600, 1200 on wikipedia. In its current state, tribal/pirate groups could all be wiped out with a single burst, given some clever use of chokepoints. Not sure if you intend this or not. Rangewise, it might be alright as is, but what I've seen from available sources is that it can either reach out to 2000m (which I think might be the current value you have it set for), while others say that it has a max effective range of 1000m; the latter would bring it more in line with what info I have encountered regarding more modern MGs like the PK and the M60.

Here's some additional sites I've found that might provide useful info. I'll be sure to be poking around them myself:

http://www.militaryfactory.com
http://olive-drab.com
http://guns.wikia.com

EDIT 2: Going back to the MG42, the 120 round burst might not be a realistic option for the gun given that, at least from what I've seen on wikipedia, gunners were instructed not to fire more than 350 rounds in a minute so as to avoid overheating and barrel damage.

Quote from: VStraken on November 07, 2014, 07:53:39 PM
I also don't have a military background but I just happen to have a lot of free time on my hands and like looking things up. I'll give it my best shot though!

I also happened to find something that may be worth reading, it's a writeup about what effective range means. Maybe it will help out in guiding your decisions, and it has some info about a few guns currently in the mod.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

Sadly the rest of the site doesn't provide much information about the specifications of guns, from what I saw - and I'm getting the vibe that it might be a bit more difficult to find accurate info about foreign/non-US guns, based on what how the guy who wrote that article said in the little table as to the sources of the weapon ranges he listed.

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly

I have buddies who served, used both of these weapons. Both of them have said they perform entirely differently, whether it be range or stopping power.

Quote from: SundayTuesday on November 08, 2014, 08:01:59 PM

Quote from: VStraken on November 07, 2014, 07:53:39 PM
I also don't have a military background but I just happen to have a lot of free time on my hands and like looking things up. I'll give it my best shot though!

I also happened to find something that may be worth reading, it's a writeup about what effective range means. Maybe it will help out in guiding your decisions, and it has some info about a few guns currently in the mod.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

Sadly the rest of the site doesn't provide much information about the specifications of guns, from what I saw - and I'm getting the vibe that it might be a bit more difficult to find accurate info about foreign/non-US guns, based on what how the guy who wrote that article said in the little table as to the sources of the weapon ranges he listed.

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly

I have buddies who served, used both of these weapons. Both of them have said they perform entirely differently, whether it be range or stopping power.

Interesting, can you elaborate? This might be useful to know since with my whole idea of ballparking the various values I suspect it could have the consequences of making a lot of guns kinda "samey", so anything that can lead to realistic and practical variation between the guns seems like it would be a good thing.

Quote from: VStraken on November 07, 2014, 07:53:39 PM
Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly - both have 500m effective range (point range, if you've read the article); more substantial variation might depend on things like rate of fire between the guns. From there, it might be reasonable to assume for practical purposes that guns with similar caliber and barrel length would have similar range, and you just plug in the value from those guns for that new gun in the absence of accurate info for the new gun.

EDIT: Another bit of balance/accuracy issue for you. I've managed to get an MG42 and that gun is beastly, perhaps overly so. Each burst has 120 rounds fired from it, and its listed RPM ingame is 3600, which is not quite true to life since as I can see the MG42 had a RPM of 1100-1600, 1200 on wikipedia. In its current state, tribal/pirate groups could all be wiped out with a single burst, given some clever use of chokepoints. Not sure if you intend this or not. Rangewise, it might be alright as is, but what I've seen from available sources is that it can either reach out to 2000m (which I think might be the current value you have it set for), while others say that it has a max effective range of 1000m; the latter would bring it more in line with what info I have encountered regarding more modern MGs like the PK and the M60.


EDIT 2: Going back to the MG42, the 120 round burst might not be a realistic option for the gun given that, at least from what I've seen on wikipedia, gunners were instructed not to fire more than 350 rounds in a minute so as to avoid overheating and barrel damage.

In the current version, all sci-fi weapons are "ballparked" because I was too lazy to look up wikias on every single one of the franchises

MG42: The 120 round burst is definitely wrong, as well as the 2 sec (120 tick) warmup for it. Must have made some mistakes while doing the Alpha 7 update. The range for all the weapons is quite inaccurate right now, due to Wikipedia overstating the effective ranges for all of them (well at least they're all overstated in relation to each other). So that too will have to be completely reworked.

Quote from: VStraken on November 08, 2014, 08:43:29 PM

Interesting, can you elaborate? This might be useful to know since with my whole idea of ballparking the various values I suspect it could have the consequences of making a lot of guns kinda "samey", so anything that can lead to realistic and practical variation between the guns seems like it would be a good thing.

The one value that is completely "samey" is the accuracy for all the weapons. Since I can't find values on the accuracy of most weapons, they are all standardized depending on the "class" of weapons they are. It would be nice if anyone have experience/knowledge on such matters.

Posting to see how many people are willing to research on the weapons. If you are interested, you can simply post your name, followed by the categories of weapons you are most interested in (Will try to accommodate but no guarantees)

All Categories of the Weapons:
- Civil War/Flintlock
- Medieval/Neolithic/Tribal
- Modern
- WW1
- WW2
- PreWar
- SciFi
- Melee
- Grenades

I'm in, but I think you already know that  ;)

I'll stick with my primary focus of looking into modern weapons (assistance welcome), but I'll also see what I can try to find for the sci-fi ones -  and of course, if I find anything regarding weapons from other categories, I'll be sure to bring it up!

I'm interested in WW2, Modern, SciFi, Grenades. Wouldn't mind researching some of the other weapons though.

More observations!

MG34: Ingame, I've seen a listed ROF of 1800rpm; wikipedia states 800-900, while militaryfactory states 850.

Morita MkI Assault Rifle and Carbine: Both of these guns seem to have a low ROF (currently 360rpm) compared to what I've observed in Starship Troopers (the movie these guns come from). So far I've not come across anything clearly stating this value, but looking at some video clips and kind of "eyeballing"/listening to how fast it fires, maybe a good guesstimate would be ~700+rpm? Nothing so far on range either, maybe it best fits in w/ battle rifles since its stated caliber is 7.62x51.

Well seeing as AY has not been active since the 20th of last month, I take he may be gone? If you do come back for what ever reason AY, I implore you to update this mod.

Will this be updated for project armory for Alpha 8? I love this mod!

Quote from: MelanisticAlbino on December 16, 2014, 03:53:03 PM
Will this be updated for project armory for Alpha 8? I love this mod!

Quote from: Viperlol on December 15, 2014, 11:38:27 PM
Well seeing as AY has not been active since the 20th of last month, I take he may be gone? If you do come back for what ever reason AY, I implore you to update this mod.

Ridiculous amount of school work in december  :o, I'll get around to updating this mod as soon as Christmas break starts.

Gotta say, the thing I'm most looking forward to is the defenses. I found the weapons themselves rather unbalanced, but with Alpha 8 I now have a strong urge to use EdB's Prepare Carefully mod in combination with this one to dig a WWI-esque defense in the middle of my map.

Any ETA on this making the transition to Alpha 8?

It looks like it could be a very desirable mod for me, and it seems incompatible.

... is this dead?

This feels pretty dead.

:(

Quote from: Professor Cupcake on January 11, 2015, 10:05:42 AM
... is this dead?

This feels pretty dead.

:(

Well, AY hasn't been very active (last online Dec 30th) but he did say he wants to update it to A8 so I wouldn't call it dead just yet.

Since AY is still nowhere to be found I decided to write up a program to copy-paste all the relevant data from the old version to Project Armory 217. To install first download Project Armory, then overwrite with this. Note that this is simply a machine-made copy-paste of the previously released version, it does not contain any of the features or fixes AY announced for the next version and may or may not make your computer explode.

[attachment deleted due to age]

Project Armory will provide a easy way of modifing the weapon damage in PA 2.18.
We will include a way of having deadly weapons in that release also. Just so people know :)

Quote from: Evul on January 22, 2015, 07:58:44 AM
We will include a way of having deadly weapons in that release also. Just so people know :)

That's kinda vague, are you guys just gonna release a second set of guns? Or did you actually set up an automated way of adjusting gun stats?

The bullet files are in separate xml file.

PA_BulletDef_Modern.xml
<!-- ASSAULT RIFLE -->
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseBullet">
<defName>Bullet_545x39mm_AR_PA</defName>
<label>5.45x39mm</label>
<graphicPath>Things/Projectile/Bullet_Big</graphicPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
<projectile>
<damageDef>Bullet</damageDef>
<DamageAmountBase>6</DamageAmountBase>
<Speed>69</Speed>
</projectile>
</ThingDef>

and they are in turn called for by the weapons meaning that if i change a damage value in the bullet xml i will change the damage for all weapons using the same bullet caliber.

very pumped!

Quote from: Evul on January 22, 2015, 08:54:31 PM
The bullet files are in separate xml file.

PA_BulletDef_Modern.xml

Code Select Expand

<!-- ASSAULT RIFLE -->
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseBullet">
<defName>Bullet_545x39mm_AR_PA</defName>
<label>5.45x39mm</label>
<graphicPath>Things/Projectile/Bullet_Big</graphicPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
<projectile>
<damageDef>Bullet</damageDef>
<DamageAmountBase>6</DamageAmountBase>
<Speed>69</Speed>
</projectile>
</ThingDef>

and they are in turn called for by the weapons meaning that if i change a damage value in the bullet xml i will change the damage for all weapons using the same bullet caliber.

Ah, well, that should reduce the amount of bullet entries, but this mod changes quite a bit more than just bullet damage and velocity. Which is why I wrote a program to just modify XML files based on data read from a CSV. Much easier to maintain a few Excel tables than hundreds of XML files.

Yeah but if you know the PA code it takes a min to actually change the fire rate, amount of bullet fired etc. :)

Never used this mod so i cant actually say this is how it works. But if it is what i think it is realistic amount of bullet fired etc. I can fix that in 2 seconds once we released 1.18 cause that uses a universal tag system. making weapons relay easy to change and update.

Quote from: Evul on January 23, 2015, 05:07:55 PM
Yeah but if you know the PA code it takes a min to actually change the fire rate, amount of bullet fired etc. :)

Never used this mod so i cant actually say this is how it works. But if it is what i think it is realistic amount of bullet fired etc. I can fix that in 2 seconds once we released 1.18 cause that uses a universal tag system. making weapons relay easy to change and update.

Oh sure, changing the burst shots on one weapon is easy. Changing the bullet damage and speed, burst shots, RPM, accuracy, warmup and cooldown ticks on 170+ weapons takes quite a few hours. My way I only need about 30 seconds.