So im just playing the game when all the sudden my food drops to 0, okay not bad, ive got plenty of skilled hunters and we can quickly go kill some deer. so i put 4 colonists on *hunt* and send them on their way... only thing is... only 2 came back.. after looking through my message log it tells me that steve and zev were shot to death D: but by who? no pirates or anybody have attacked... luckly my saved game file is right before i sent everybody out to hunt... so i reload and repeat my steps above... this time i watch my hunters... sure enough again... steve gets killed but to my surprise it was by one of the other hunters! after i arrested the offender and quickly had her executed for her crimes against the public... i sent my hunters out again this time with a rookie hunter... which i made the mistake of giving this rookie hunter a m24... big mistake.. he took out 2 more people before i was able to put a stop to his crimes...
but enough with the theatrics, i was wondering if there is a mod, option or something along those lines that can disable friendly fire, my people keep killing each other by mistake and it is getting annoying having to watch them when them hunt. :-[
Friendly fire isn't a bug? No point in executing people for having bad aim, your fault for having them hunt.
You need to position your troops so they can't hit each other accidentely. You should also never use the hunt order on more then one person at the same time (or watch them and reposition then if needed).
Manual hunting is always the best option.
Yeah, it's not a bug. I'd like for the characters to watch their fire a little better, but that isn't as easy to code as it sounds I think. Anyway, disabling friendly fire would take a lot away from the game.
The problem comes from the fact you can't have more than 1 person hunt at a time because the AI is quite happy to start shooting at a animal when there is someone ahead of them.
The proper solution would be to tell the AI, when hunting, don't shoot when someone is in front of you, instead change positions. Also, maybe teach the pathfinding to not have people walk in front of a hunter that is shooting an animal.
The other bug with hunting is that if someone recovers from an injury, if they had the hunting task beforehand... they will quite happily run off without a weapon to try to defeat the muffolo with their bare fists... and usually get mangled horribly because of it. This could be fixed by disabling hunting for people who became incapacitated.
fixing AI is a rather big challenge. might be easier to take the firing arc of hunters or soldiers and list it as impassible terrain or just terrain to avoid if possible.
Good way to go about it is to send one colonist to go hunt, but have him/her kill a set amount that you need bringing in, without hauling them after every kill.
After manually killing the amount you need, simply unforbid the corpses and let your haulers go grab them hassle-free. If you hunt a big bulk at a time you won't have to do it too often.
letting them sit for too long would let them rot. Id prefer a bill on the butcher table, Hunt 'Deer' 10 times. and whoever is set to hunt goes out and does that.
So the game AI can sense when enemies are in the LoS so you guys can shoot, but can't do the same to check for your own guys so they don't shoot if in LoS?
Sensing LOS is different from sensing the cone of fire. While I think it would be great to have the AI intelligently move pawns away from cones of fire, it is a different problem from detecting if something is in a LOS. Having an AI routine that avoids cones of fire would allow Muffalo to run away from attacking hunters, or invaders to avoid friendly fire themselves.
Quote from: Anarak on September 24, 2014, 03:06:02 PM
So the game AI can sense when enemies are in the LoS so you guys can shoot, but can't do the same to check for your own guys so they don't shoot if in LoS?
The problem is that the AI doesn't decide to shoot at one of your own guys but the bullet misses and the path it takes can randomly lead into a friendly. And even if it would, imagine a tough fight against a bunch of raiders and your guys would refuse to shoot because they could hit a friendly. The raiders would shoot at you while you are busy positioning your people so all of them can shoot which would lead to your men to be shot down.
hmmm Would LoS = CoF be worse than accidental friendly fire? Perhaps when the target animal moves away it would give a chance to reallocate your pawns so there's no interference.
Or only one hunter per animal
Or FF = untrue when enemy event is off. FF = true when enemy event is on
Or Accuracy for hunting is increased, so is aim/cooldown time, because you can take your time to shoot at something that isn't shooting back.
would any of this be feasible?
Quote from: Dr. Z on September 24, 2014, 03:47:08 PM
The problem is that the AI doesn't decide to shoot at one of your own guys but the bullet misses and the path it takes can randomly lead into a friendly. And even if it would, imagine a tough fight against a bunch of raiders and your guys would refuse to shoot because they could hit a friendly. The raiders would shoot at you while you are busy positioning your people so all of them can shoot which would lead to your men to be shot down.
True, but from my experience its much easier to deal with positioning than dealing with friendly fire.
Another compromise would be allowing to override or avoid FF with a button toggle. If its on, you'd get a red X icon over your pawn if there's another one of you guys in the front, so you can move him. By overriding you'd accept the consequences/benefits of the risk
(sorry for the double post)
Quote from: JimmyAgnt007 on September 24, 2014, 12:58:44 PM
letting them sit for too long would let them rot. Id prefer a bill on the butcher table, Hunt 'Deer' 10 times. and whoever is set to hunt goes out and does that.
If memory serves, chopped up meat does not rot/expire (At least currently, same applies for harvested potatoes/berries). That way, you can hunt down 4-10 deer in one sitting with one guy, then send out the haulers to collect and chop them up immediately. One guy does the hunting (Admittedly it'd be manually done, but if you do 10 at a time or sufficiently excessive amounts you won't be doing it often) which removes the risk and then getting them hauled in and chopped up right away removes the decay.
Quote from: Dr. Z on September 24, 2014, 03:47:08 PM
The problem is that the AI doesn't decide to shoot at one of your own guys but the bullet misses and the path it takes can randomly lead into a friendly. And even if it would, imagine a tough fight against a bunch of raiders and your guys would refuse to shoot because they could hit a friendly. The raiders would shoot at you while you are busy positioning your people so all of them can shoot which would lead to your men to be shot down.
^ agree with this.
also, i don't want to remove friendly fire completely. otherwise, i'll just spam grenades while sending in my melee for stun-lock, etc.. removing friendly fire just leads to so many exploits.
as for hunting, i only use one hunter at a time, and i just rotate my hunters based on who has the lowest shooting skill. (this hopefully helps trains them enough to be useful for battle)
Quote from: Anarak on September 24, 2014, 04:03:16 PM
True, but from my experience its much easier to deal with positioning than dealing with friendly fire.
Another compromise would be allowing to override or avoid FF with a button toggle. If its on, you'd get a red X icon over your pawn if there's another one of you guys in the front, so you can move him. By overriding you'd accept the consequences/benefits of the risk
(sorry for the double post)
The point is, that you would have to reposition them while the raiders are shooting at you, because as long as they are not there, you have no target and the game can't tell you if your guys going to FF. And repositioning while fighting can mean game over because the AI knows to shoot at the persons without cover. This thought just gave me the idea of a covering fire function, but I will open another threat for it.
I don't think that the shooters should stop shooting because someone is in the way. I think it would be better to have non combatants (those not drafted) automagically avoid moving into the cones of fire of anyone who is in combat or firing a weapon(including non-drafted hunters). This would prevent odd effects like haulers running off to pick up something just beyond where pirates just landed. It could be extended to animals so that packs of Muffalo would move away from the guy firing at them. It would then even be possible to herd Muffalo in this fashion...
I partially agree/disagree, IMO getting someone shot at the back by a friend is just as bad as moving out of cover while re-positioning. But everyone has its particular experiences and play styles.
Anyway, i was addressing hunting in particular, as per OP thread, i suggested a few other things as well, feel free to comment.
Friendly fire is my biggest hair puller currently :'( .
I send out a hunting party and come back with more injuries than meat.
Or something is inside the base and people walk into the fire to fix building hit by stray bullets.
Quote from: Darth Fool on September 25, 2014, 11:21:58 AM
I don't think that the shooters should stop shooting because someone is in the way. I think it would be better to have non combatants (those not drafted) automagically avoid moving into the cones of fire of anyone who is in combat or firing a weapon...
That would be more ideal, but I think it would also be more complicated to implement and computationally expensive. (I have no idea if it would be noticeably so).
For what it is worth hunting and drafted combat are very different things. As you imply, I think that pawns don't have to operate under exactly the same rules in each situation. This makes sense in a simulation and game mechanic perspective.
Not a bug.
Be more careful next time.
Although the hunting logic is something that really needs some tweaking...
Quote from: Professor Cupcake on January 11, 2015, 10:02:28 AM
Not a bug.
Be more careful next time.
Although the hunting logic is something that really needs some tweaking...
This is the suggestions subforum-- nobody is claiming friendly fire is a bug.
And this may be over complicated, but I would find friendly fire more understandable from pawns with really bad shooting skills.
This is not a bug? If this is not a bug its bad AI...
If you go hunting will you walk between another hunter and the prey?
Most of my guys injuries happen while hunting...
It's not a challange- or hardcore-survival thing. It's pathfinding issue. The problem that the haulers don't perceive hunters as a threat. But they must. There's must be a zone between hunter and his target (and military conflicts too) that will have very very low priority to route a path. Only If there's no other ways... And this can resolve most of problems with friendly-fire.
And the hunters pathfinding is wierd sometimes too - a hunter with m24 at zone with many small rocks could take his imaginary ideal position for shooting for ages. I once had a guy who died from starvation, while didn't even single shot to his furious enemy - a boomrat. Thats was funny. But that's sad at the same time. Only manual hunting by now.
one hunter with a shotgun makes it very unlikely to give you any casualties on your own colonees. Especially if you make sure not to hunt creatures inside your base
Short range, single shot, not too long cooldown it's the perfect weapon for "safe" hunting =P
It's defiantly something you currently have to organise, but once you minimise the risks (shotgun, 2 hunters, hunt away from base) it's not really an issue. Ideally I would like colonists to contemplate shots, but it sounds like an expensive process to implement.
I can't tell you how many times I have had colonist walk in front of an actively firing turret! I've had plenty killed by hunters as well... It's just stupid... the AI SHOULDN'T have people just saunter into an active fire area... Sure, maybe there could be some perception/intelligence check to see if they realize there is a field of fire, and sometimes accidents happen... but right now it's just silly how often people on gather jobs kill themselves... be it turret or hunters..