Hey all,
This mod is supposed to be a supplement to mining and traders, it is not a replacement for them.
So a quick disclaimer:
Im releasing this now as im going to need feedback on this, I want to balance it as best I can, this is not the final release.
So onto the mod:
This mod adds 5 new plants:
IronWeed
GoldRoot
SilverLeaf
MeadowSweet
RubberFig
All can be planted in hydroponics or the ground. All have to be "pressed" in a new worktable (the Press). 4 of each will give you their material solution, which can then be used in another worktable (the Centrifuge) to extract the material out.
IronWeed, GoldRoot and SilverLeaf all get you the relevant raw material when centrifuged.
MeadowSweet is a natural plant high in chemicals used in the creation of Aspirin, this plants material solution gets you Aspirin, 3 of these plus 20 cloth can be used to create 1 Medicine at the last new worktable, the Chemistry Bench.
The Rubber Fig allows you to get a rubber solution via the Press, centrifuging this gets you resin, combining 2 resin with 2 fabric and 2 metal at the chemistry bench will net you 1 plasteel.
Their are 3 researches available 1 for each of the worktables.
The Press requires a cook, the Centrifuge and Chemistry Bench require doctors.
Please give me feedback on the amounts of ingredients in the recipes and anything else you think needs tweaking (some of the sounds and effects could be changed out for others).
Also if any artists are reading PLEASE feel free to go nuts and help me, I hate doing art as you can tell by the ripoffs of Tynans ive used lol!
DOWNLOAD FROM MY GITHUB:
https://github.com/Skullywag/Rimworld-Mods (download zip and grab the mod you need)
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What are the growing times for these? If it's too short, then it's OP, but the vanilla mushrooms take like 45 days for producing cloth that's only a bit better than normal. So are these crops that produce vastly important resources also balanced by time?
currently same as potato but you need 4 to get 1 solution to get 1 material. So in the time it takes you to harvest 1000 potatoes, you can harvest enough for 250 metal, plus all the time taken to process it and time this takes away from other jobs as a colonist has to do it.
Its all easily changeable but i need mass feedback.
I would think at least strawberry time. Probably NOT mushroom time - I can rarely grow mushrooms to harvest because of power outages or solar flares. Gold should probably takes exceptionally more time, as well.
How many are grown per stack? If it takes 4 to make 1, but they grow in batches of 4, then that's already there...
They grow 1 per plant always.
I understand this pretty much replaces the Ironweed mod?
Would you consider doing a cheaty version?Like when you harvest the plants,they just drop their respective resource,just like in teh Ironweed mod?
Thanks to Shinzy the release will have some new plant art in it.
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This rules so hard, skully, thanks! It also replaces the need to have a medicine-specific mod like Apothecarius, which is beneficial for me, as I'm trying to knock down the number of mods I'm using, consolidating as many functions into as small a number of mods as I can. Thanks!
Quote from: Clibanarius on October 07, 2014, 04:02:21 PM
This rules so hard, skully, thanks! It also replaces the need to have a medicine-specific mod like Apothecarius, which is beneficial for me, as I'm trying to knock down the number of mods I'm using, consolidating as many functions into as small a number of mods as I can. Thanks!
That hurt :'(
j/k
What is that smell?? Do you smell Magical Crops? I like your mod and there are definately people who enjoy this style of play.
Haha, sorry. I actually ended up doing the inverse after I thought about it: I don't actually want or need the harvestable resources, while I do want a complex way to get medicine crafted. That said, I still love both and will use each at various times.
Quote from: JuliaEllie on October 07, 2014, 04:27:51 PM
Quote from: Clibanarius on October 07, 2014, 04:02:21 PM
This rules so hard, skully, thanks! It also replaces the need to have a medicine-specific mod like Apothecarius, which is beneficial for me, as I'm trying to knock down the number of mods I'm using, consolidating as many functions into as small a number of mods as I can. Thanks!
That hurt :'(
j/k
What is that smell?? Do you smell Magical Crops? I like your mod and there are definately people who enjoy this style of play.
Magical Crops is a mod ive actually used a lot and have had some suggestion to the mod author implemented Mark719 is a top bloke, if I can make this even half as good as his mod for MC id be a happy man.
I really like the idea behind this mod, but I can't open the file. 7-zip gives me an error saying that the file cannot be opened as an archive. I tried 7-zip and Windows explorer.
i think the files need to be reuploaded or put on an external hosting site like media fire because the servers for the forums have been moved recently
on it but it keeps timing out, waiting for the forums to sort themselves out.
edit - oh it worked this time.
Updated the textures of the 2 new plants to better match at least the quality of Shinzys ones (not really but they are better then before ;)). Uploaded to my github now as well.
Further updated the textures, added a few new items to compliment the slighty more indepth crafting process. The Recipes image above should make sense of it. If not ask.
I really like you mod, but I've encountered the problem that my colonist are still creating although they are starving to death. I think (didn't test it yet) this is because you're using MedicalOperationSpeed for the workSpeedStat in some recipes. I guess it makes sense to prioritize operations over food and sleep, at least to some degree.
Anyway you maybe wanna do something about this.
ha you are correct ill address that shortly.
Updated and changed work types to crafting, changed relevant skill experience gain as well. Sucks that the core system for self preservation is so lacking.
nice mod i like it but it is over powered. you can make a lot of money pretty fast ;) med kits are fine, but gold is pretty chip. and i got a bug, its like my colonist wont eat or sleep until they use up all the resource, so they go chaotic :o and the colonist take made resource to the free storage, I think it would better if they just drop them on the floor.
I need to rebalance the times/amounts as stated I'm after feedback so thanks.
Redownload the mod I fixed the not eating issue by setting it all to crafting job type not doctor for some reason that job type overrides everything even self preservation.
I know you did say this mod is made as a side thing for mining...But in my opinion?Im really not getting my bang for the buck...I takes planting,processing then finally doing another step to turn one resource into the metal type.Now i wouldn't mind this to much,but when this basically takes so much manpower and workforce(growing) for just 1 measly metal/gold/silver/whatever,I really feel like it's unbalanced,I have to keep my colonists focused on this solely to get even 30 iron,which in my modded games are not even enough for some of the more expensive things,like a MAI or maybe one of those Better Turrets.I am also experiencing the colonists starving/depriving themselvs from sleep bug from this mod,It's like they are just hypnotized by those crafting stations,I lost 2 medium colonists from this,just because the dumbasses wouldn't eat when they were crafting
I really hope you take over the initial Ironweed mod and Redo it,I said this before and I will say it again,making a new version that covers metal,gold and plasteel of the initial Ironweed mod would be amazing,ofc you would not get like 6 metal from one plant per harvest(since you have no crafting involved like in this mod)but 1-2 metal/gold/etc per plant would be fine.
Until further balance I really want you to consider doing this Ironweed redo,because honestly,this is really really out of balance.
Have you redownloaded recently to see if it fixes the starving bug?
Not the way I expected the feedback to go, I feel a plant dropping metal/gold directly is cheaty so no I wont be redoing the ironweed mod past what I've already done. It would take someone about 10 minutes to copy paste the defs in the mod and change the material dropped.
In terms of the rest of your feedback ill take it under advisement and wait till I have more feedback.
Quote from: MisterLock on October 10, 2014, 03:26:48 PM
I know you did say this mod is made as a side thing for mining...But in my opinion?Im really not getting my bang for the buck...I takes planting,processing then finally doing another step to turn one resource into the metal type.Now i wouldn't mind this to much,but when this basically takes so much manpower and workforce(growing) for just 1 measly metal/gold/silver/whatever,I really feel like it's unbalanced,I have to keep my colonists focused on this solely to get even 30 iron,which in my modded games are not even enough for some of the more expensive things,like a MAI or maybe one of those Better Turrets.I am also experiencing the colonists starving/depriving themselvs from sleep bug from this mod,It's like they are just hypnotized by those crafting stations,I lost 2 medium colonists from this,just because the dumbasses wouldn't eat when they were crafting
I really hope you take over the initial Ironweed mod and Redo it,I said this before and I will say it again,making a new version that covers metal,gold and plasteel of the initial Ironweed mod would be amazing,ofc you would not get like 6 metal from one plant per harvest(since you have no crafting involved like in this mod)but 1-2 metal/gold/etc per plant would be fine.
Until further balance I really want you to consider doing this Ironweed redo,because honestly,this is really really out of balance.
why dont you just make gold or med kits sell them and buy metal
Quote from: Oga88 on October 11, 2014, 03:54:46 AM
Quote from: MisterLock on October 10, 2014, 03:26:48 PM
I know you did say this mod is made as a side thing for mining...But in my opinion?Im really not getting my bang for the buck...I takes planting,processing then finally doing another step to turn one resource into the metal type.Now i wouldn't mind this to much,but when this basically takes so much manpower and workforce(growing) for just 1 measly metal/gold/silver/whatever,I really feel like it's unbalanced,I have to keep my colonists focused on this solely to get even 30 iron,which in my modded games are not even enough for some of the more expensive things,like a MAI or maybe one of those Better Turrets.I am also experiencing the colonists starving/depriving themselvs from sleep bug from this mod,It's like they are just hypnotized by those crafting stations,I lost 2 medium colonists from this,just because the dumbasses wouldn't eat when they were crafting
I really hope you take over the initial Ironweed mod and Redo it,I said this before and I will say it again,making a new version that covers metal,gold and plasteel of the initial Ironweed mod would be amazing,ofc you would not get like 6 metal from one plant per harvest(since you have no crafting involved like in this mod)but 1-2 metal/gold/etc per plant would be fine.
Until further balance I really want you to consider doing this Ironweed redo,because honestly,this is really really out of balance.
why dont you just make gold or med kits sell them and buy metal
I kinda got this mod thinking it would be a improved/balanced alternative to Ironweed,I liked/didn't really like Ironweed,The amount of metal you got for putting basically almost no work into it except harvesting it and planting it really was broken.I understand Skully wanted to make a Legit method of getting resources that doesn't replace the other method's like traders and mining,but this is really underpowered.
The thing is with Gold,I personally don't seem to get the amount of money of it you seem to be getting(I assume this since you did write why I don't just make gold and sell it) to be worth selling to a trader.As for the Medicine,I didn't get the mod for the Medicine part,I already use apothecarius mod and I am happy creating medkits that way,Seems like crafting aspiring to get 1 medkit would suck compared to putting 3 herbs in a crafting station and getting a medkit that way.I also don't want to sell any medkits,when a colony gets to a size of around 21 colonists,your bound to have a raid that will heavily impact your colonists,so your going to need so much medkits it's not a joke,so selling medkits is a no go,I am just stockpiling them for dark days.
Once again I Understand Skully needs to do some more balancing on this mod/it's unfinished,and bear in mind all I am saying is constructive criticism(I think).
it looks interestings but it seems to be in conflict with the stove. i have 3 cookers and they give priority to press,centrifuge and chemistry so my colony starves. Even if i check on the character skill only cook, they always go on press, centrifuge, chemistry at first, and nobody is on the stove. i suppose i should have more cookers but it's not convenient nor possible with the size of my colony.
consequently, i cannot play correctly with the mod at this moment
Gamy have you downloaded recently. Originally the mod was set to use cook on the press, I think I changed all of them to crafting recently but ill double check.
i downloaded Rimworld-Mods-master.zip on the 9 october.
i can redownload and try to see if it changes.
so I've noticed a few things gold and silver are multiplied by a larger amount when calculating "stuff" l. By this I mean something that costs 150 wood or metal seems to cost 3000 gold/silver in the core game. I'm gonna try upping the amounts slightly across the board but silver and gold will get a larger buff than metal. Ill post here when I'm done, it'll probably be tonight.
Again I need feedback to balance this, I am aware that these chains are intensive and take your colonists out of action for a while so also I'm going to up the amounts of ingredients needed and the resulting materials produced, the result should mean less colonists working all the time but the same output level.
Don't give silver a larger buff, since it's the currency it should still come mainly from trade rather than this method, in my opinion
I like the mod, but... only 1 metal from growing 4 ironweed, building 2 machines and putting the crops through them both... all for 1 metal?
Quote from: Smasher5523 on October 11, 2014, 11:43:50 AM
I like the mod, but... only 1 metal from growing 4 ironweed, building 2 machines and putting the crops through them both... all for 1 metal?
That's what I was saying :D
Good point on the silver I keep forgetting its a currency. Guys I'm getting to the balancing, please give me time, as stated this was released to garner feedback.
Love the mod.
As far as balancing goes, I would simply make it so that the end result of each of the IronWeed, GoldRoot and SilverLeaf chains results in the same <baseMarketValue> (so 1 gold = 18 silver = 5-6 metal). These are all easy to get from traders, so rarity shouldn't be a major factor. (Maybe have silver yield less since as mentioned it's used for trading).
You could even do this for plasteel and medicine, their rarity and usefulness are balanced by the extra research, materials and production step. (Plasteel and medicine are both ~double the cost of gold).
Request - could you add a way to grow hyperweave?
Keep up the awesome work you are doing!
p.s. You could either change the yields on growing, reduce the number needed of plants to combine into the material, or both.
p.p.s. You could also make the yields have ranges (even a small range of 1-2, but also HUGE ranged like silver could yield 1-10) for some variety/gambling!
p.p.p.s. You could also make it so the centrifuge accepts inputs of 4 and outputs 4, this will help reduce the work time and makes sense because of the way a centrifuge works.
ok so heres the numbers/changes im thinking:
All plants take 4x longer to grow (4x potato speed)
Each plant drops 1-5 crops
you need 4 crops to press to 1 solution
1 solution nets you:
15 Aspirin
15 Resin
150 Metal
30 Gold
72 Silver
how does that sound?
The point of this was to reduce the amount of time colonists spend doing this stuff as its currently too much.
So 8.32 days of growth, roughly? mid size field of say... 8x8 so 64 (My average size field), 64 x an average of 3 crops per growth cycle, so you get 172 crops, thats 44 solutions, so in just over 8 days + processing time, on average you'd get about 7200 metal or just under half that in silver, seems a bit powerful to me (And sorry I spammed with all that maths, just wanted to show how I'd value the plants), maybe make it 1-3 crops per plant instead? Just my thoughts
I like this solution, I never even thought about longer growing times!
Using hydroponics, you'll have the plants in lots of 4. On average that will net a crop of 12 after ~5 days?. Which distills to an average of 3 solutions. So for an average yield you're looking at 45 aspirin, 45 resin, 450 metal, 90 gold, 216 silver (I'm guessing this would overall take ~1 week in game time, but your colonists only have to work for about 2 of those days). Then you can create 15 medicine and plasteel 22.
You got a ratio of 2 gold:10 metal:5 silver:1 medicine:1 plasteel. I think the value of metal:gold:medicine:plasteel is perfect.
I think you should increase silver based on its value to traders or simply remove silver as something you can grow. Currently there's no point to grow it, it's cheaper to grow something else and sell it for silver! Gold you grow for beauty, metal, plasteel and medicine are all REALLY valuable to use for building, silver is only good for trade, so let it be it's full value for trading! To this end, 1 solution should create ~400-500 silver (which is absurd, so I kind of think it should be removed).
p.s. and yes I agree the values overall are too high as the poster above suggested, but the ratios are on the right track!
Thanks both, very astute maths there.
I am debating removing silver...it does seem...wrong, growing stuff to trade is ok, but growing money...
So the question here is given the 8 and a half day growth cycle (plus work time to craft) whats an acceptable amount of metal/gold/plasteel/medicine to get over that time.
I'd say about hmm 2000 metal?
Edit: Actually, accounting the very low number of actual colonist time put into it, I'd say closer to 1500
I think removing silver is good, we have so many things to grow to sell.
We already have cotton as a fast growing high yield cash crop, so let that keep its place.
Instead lets compare to devilstrand, which sells for ~double the value of gold.
Your gold plant grows 5 times faster than devilstrand (it's 20x slower than potato), and devilstrand yields an average of 2 per crop.
So to be balanced, I think 1 solution yielding 2 gold is probably balanced (unless you want to adjust crop yields).
Using hydroponics, this will yield an average of 6 gold per table per week (or 30 gold, worth 540 silver, in the time it would take for a table of devilstrand to grow, which would have yielded an average of 8 devilstrand cloth, worth 320 silver).
This makes devilstrand less valuable to grow than gold, but as always devilstrand requires practically no work or research to start farming. Gold then becomes the go-to cash crop, but requires significant investment in research and time.
Therefore 1 solution should get you:
1 aspirin
1 resin
2 gold
10 metal (that's 30 metal per hydro table per week, worth ~92 silver, or ~480 compared to equivalent devilstrand of 320).
I personally am okay with these for balance. They're actually worth the effort to set up but not TOO powerful.
I always thought the end product of these recipies should be just a little buffed.
I personally went into the files with notepad++ and changed the amount of resources you get from the final solution.
If you are quite litelarly suggesting to get 150 metal from a final solution(Iron Solution)then that would be a little overpowered in my opinion...Since I personally set it to give me 5 Metal per Solution
As for the silver.Either leave it as is(1 or change it to 2 silver)or remove it.There is no reason to grow loads of it just so you can buy stuff,big part of acquiring expensive resources like the AI core,Slaves,Mechanical Body Parts is trading your resources for them,if you already have tons of silver from growing it,that kinda negates trading on your part.
ok so after some play testing with 3 colonists dedicated to nothing but this and eating, on 1 hydroponics table per plant I have it down to this:
end of day 1, plants at 50% growth
end of day 2, first stuff gets harvested
end of day 3, 40 metal, 8 gold, 4 aspirin, 4 resin, 50% growth on plants
end of day 4, 2nd round of plants almost grown
end of day 5, 80 metal, 16 gold, 8 aspirin, 8 resin, 50% growth on plants
pattern seems to hold as long as no incidents
Thats every 10 days:
1 improvised turret
5 medicine
9 plasteel
32 gold
Gold is about 10 silver a pop so thats 320 silver per 10 days also.
Slight buff required?
Ive decided to double the above, i realised that this mod using the above is fine for a vanilla game, but modded it needs buffing. Theres too much to spend the stuff on. Should I upload 2 versions? Vanilla only and Modded.
Yeah I'd definitely keep these values for a vanilla version, maybe 1.5x for a modded version? But I like the numbers as is for balance with vanilla.
ive been doing some more play testing, and 1.5 does seem to be about right after a few hours of tweaking, so we are on the same lines. Ill get the github version updated with these numbers tomorrow, need sleep.
Sweet, looking forward to the update =)
I would also be curious if this could be expanded to make Hyperweave/Synthread with, say, cotton + metal and cotton + silver or plasteel or something?
It could but im waiting to see if this gonna be a thing in A8. No point me adding it until I know.
Darn. Fair enough, though. Any idea when the jump to alpha 8 is going to happen?
Have updated with my latest balance/workload changes, this was after considerable playtesting by me, 60 metal was waaay too much so I halved it. It still needs tweaking as do all mods of this nature but its better now.
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what, but after I built the chemistry table and set it to make some medicine I won't let me click on the table and make anything. I'm also running T-ExpandedCrops so maybe there is a conflict?
huh, you cant click on the chem table anymore? got a save? let me know what mods you have if you do and ill check it out.
skullywag, WHEn will you stop wagging and update your mods?
People still want this? growing steels gonna feel weird.....
how about those locations that are arctic or borial forrest and small hills or plains therefors a lack of minerals
Here is a working alpha 8 update for this mod
MaterialCrops(Alpha8) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/yj34ennb2vge1t0/MaterialCrops(Alpha8))
Your welcome!
And if there is something worng just let me know and I'll see what I can do.
Thanks Rainbow Dash, as stated in my pm im not planning on doing much work on this in the near future hiwever i will be coming back to it once ive got a few other things outta my system. Feel free to pm me with any issues you cant get around. Ill update the OP later on tonight with updated details and credit. :)