I haven't played around too much with Alpha 8 yet but I do remember the changelog saying the armor system was overhauled. Now looking at the armor ingame it only gives the same percentage as always so what exactly does the overhaul entail? As I recall it was supposed to include damage mitigation, so what does that entail exactly? If an armored vest says 60% vs sharp, does that mean when a pawn gets hit by a pistol 10 times, 6 bullets will be deflected and the other 4 will only do 40% damage?
I think it's % of damage blocked. And I don't think it stacks. Maybe it calculates the outer layer, then applies the second, if there is one.
Armor calculation works like this:
First 50% is straight up damage reduction, anything over 50% starts adding to deflection chance.
e.g. 40% armor will reduce 100 damage to [100 - (100 * 0.40)] = 100 - 40 = 60 damage.
e.g. 60% armor will reduce 100 damage to ... 50 damage (with a 10% chance to deflect all the damage entirely)
e.g. 100% armor will reduce 100 damage to ... 50 damage (with a 50% chance to deflect all the damage entirely)
Armor is capped at like 80% deflection or something like that, I'd have to check the code.
Sheesh. One would expect that the armor info would straight up show the deflection chance = display the deflection chance and damage filter amount in separate figures.
Quote from: ZestyLemons on January 02, 2015, 01:54:09 AM
Armor calculation works like this:
First 50% is straight up damage reduction, anything over 50% starts adding to deflection chance.
How did you acquire this forbidden knowledge?
Quote from: Utherix on January 02, 2015, 09:07:53 PM
Quote from: ZestyLemons on January 02, 2015, 01:54:09 AM
Armor calculation works like this:
First 50% is straight up damage reduction, anything over 50% starts adding to deflection chance.
How did you acquire this forbidden knowledge?
From the holy scripts of RimWorld's coder, written upon this very forum.
(Tynan told me, lol. You can also use stuff like jetBeans to look through the code yourself too)
Shame on you ZestyLemons. Distributing the holy knowledge. Blasphemy
What I don't understand is how someone in full power-armor can be instakilled by a single M-24 shot to the chest, when even a modern ballistic vest and trauma plate can save a soldier from a similar shot with some nasty bruising and perhaps some broken ribs. One would think that fancy, futuristic power armor would be superior to modern armor's capabilities in reality, and for me that kind of issue ruins believably with the frequency that it happens.
Honestly, the damage model in general, especially in relation to armor, is a bit wonky overall. I think there needs to be a penetration value of some sort, and anything that doesn't penetrate should be translated into blunt damage. This would mean that bullets fired from your average pistol hitting a kevlar vest would leave bruises instead of gunshot wounds, and weapons like the M-24 could cause more severe blunt force trauma against the same vest.
Quote from: Morrigi on January 03, 2015, 03:23:16 AM
What I don't understand is how someone in full power-armor can be instakilled by a single M-24 shot to the chest, when even a modern ballistic vest and trauma plate can save a soldier from a similar shot with some nasty bruising and perhaps some broken ribs. One would think that fancy, futuristic power armor would be superior to modern armor's capabilities in reality, and for me that kind of issue ruins believably with the frequency that it happens.
Honestly, the damage model in general, especially in relation to armor, is a bit wonky overall. I think there needs to be a penetration value of some sort, and anything that doesn't penetrate should be translated into blunt damage. This would mean that bullets fired from your average pistol hitting a kevlar vest would leave bruises instead of gunshot wounds, and weapons like the M-24 could cause more severe blunt force trauma against the same vest.
One shot the chest isn't enough actually. The torso has 40 health, and a M24 only does 40 damage. Power armor is 65% sharp damage reduction, which knocks that 40 damage down to 20 damage, and has a 15% chance to deflect all the damage entirely on top of that.
The only thing that could kill a colonist in one shot is a very unlucky shot to the heart or liver (or lung/kidney if the colonist is already missing one).
Assuming a health colonist, there's only a
3% chance that a M24 will kill a colonist out right with a chest shot. Even spinal or neck shots are not lethal while wearing power armor.
Quote from: Morrigi on January 03, 2015, 03:23:16 AM
...What I don't understand is how someone in full power-armor can be instakilled by a single M-24 shot to the chest...
Maybe it's a Firefly-esque pew-pew M-24?
Or all futuristic weapons are loaded with AP rounds by default, or fancy plasteel-core rounds, or, or, or...
Just make up some head-canon to make it work lol.
But, it's definitely good to know how armour works now. Still thought it was borked lol. >.>
Quote from: ZestyLemons on January 03, 2015, 03:47:43 AM
Quote from: Morrigi on January 03, 2015, 03:23:16 AM
What I don't understand is how someone in full power-armor can be instakilled by a single M-24 shot to the chest, when even a modern ballistic vest and trauma plate can save a soldier from a similar shot with some nasty bruising and perhaps some broken ribs. One would think that fancy, futuristic power armor would be superior to modern armor's capabilities in reality, and for me that kind of issue ruins believably with the frequency that it happens.
Honestly, the damage model in general, especially in relation to armor, is a bit wonky overall. I think there needs to be a penetration value of some sort, and anything that doesn't penetrate should be translated into blunt damage. This would mean that bullets fired from your average pistol hitting a kevlar vest would leave bruises instead of gunshot wounds, and weapons like the M-24 could cause more severe blunt force trauma against the same vest.
One shot the chest isn't enough actually. The torso has 40 health, and a M24 only does 40 damage. Power armor is 65% sharp damage reduction, which knocks that 40 damage down to 20 damage, and has a 15% chance to deflect all the damage entirely on top of that.
The only thing that could kill a colonist in one shot is a very unlucky shot to the heart or liver (or lung/kidney if the colonist is already missing one).
Assuming a health colonist, there's only a 3% chance that a M24 will kill a colonist out right with a chest shot. Even spinal or neck shots are not lethal while wearing power armor.
I had it happen repeatedly in Alpha 7, haven't had enough time to test now.
I hate relying on kill rooms to get rid of enemies but I find that I usually have to as trying to go head to head against a well armed raid of pirates usually leaves me with half my colony dead (and always the most important colonists). Would love to be able to participate in shootouts but it's just too punishing to do so once the really large waves hit.
Quote from: Morrigi on January 03, 2015, 06:05:52 AM
Quote from: ZestyLemons on January 03, 2015, 03:47:43 AM
Quote from: Morrigi on January 03, 2015, 03:23:16 AM
What I don't understand is how someone in full power-armor can be instakilled by a single M-24 shot to the chest, when even a modern ballistic vest and trauma plate can save a soldier from a similar shot with some nasty bruising and perhaps some broken ribs. One would think that fancy, futuristic power armor would be superior to modern armor's capabilities in reality, and for me that kind of issue ruins believably with the frequency that it happens.
Honestly, the damage model in general, especially in relation to armor, is a bit wonky overall. I think there needs to be a penetration value of some sort, and anything that doesn't penetrate should be translated into blunt damage. This would mean that bullets fired from your average pistol hitting a kevlar vest would leave bruises instead of gunshot wounds, and weapons like the M-24 could cause more severe blunt force trauma against the same vest.
One shot the chest isn't enough actually. The torso has 40 health, and a M24 only does 40 damage. Power armor is 65% sharp damage reduction, which knocks that 40 damage down to 20 damage, and has a 15% chance to deflect all the damage entirely on top of that.
The only thing that could kill a colonist in one shot is a very unlucky shot to the heart or liver (or lung/kidney if the colonist is already missing one).
Assuming a health colonist, there's only a 3% chance that a M24 will kill a colonist out right with a chest shot. Even spinal or neck shots are not lethal while wearing power armor.
I had it happen repeatedly in Alpha 7, haven't had enough time to test now.
I think armor in Alpha 7 was entirely deflection-chance based (and in Alpha 6 it was entirely damaged reduction based), so it could've happened.