More Mechanoids
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/crawler.png)
DescriptionI got bored with the two existing mechanoid types. They are tough and dangerous, but particularly their toughness makes firefights with them a drag.
So I decided to add a third variety: the crawler. They are bug-like mechanoids that die with one or two hits, but are small, move fast and come in large numbers. They are equipped with precise cutting tools, so don't be surprised if someone loses a toe or an ear.
Now new threats have joined the cause:
- The skullywag: Equipped with cattle prod arms he will paralyze your puny colonists and unlock doors.
- The flamebot: A variation of the crawler, equipped with a flamethrower.
- The mammoth: A fast and heavy melee enemy that is hard to kill.
- The assaulter: An armored variation of the scyther, with a weaker weapon.
With some tinkering you can now repurpose various mechanoids to do tasks that are below your colonists' pride.
UsageInstall and play! They'll find you soon enough...
This mod can be added at any time, without creating a new game.
ReviewsPumpus' video review of the old version 1.02b (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-t-0FmAguY)
Changelog1.07b - 31.12.2015
- Charging platform now connects by cable
- Deterioration lowered for inner parts
- Additional automatic repair check based on total health of mechanoids
- Buttons for stay home and full repair that affect all mechanoids
- Converted mechanoids that spawn in crypts are killed right away
- Armor tweaked for Realistic Combat Mod
1.07 - 19.10.2015
- Balancing
- Fixes
- Recharging platform for mechanoids
- Tab for finding all mechanoids and setting areas (like animals)
1.06 - 09.10.2015
- Converted to Alpha 12
- Added mammoth and assaulter
- More tweakable settings (see PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml)
1.05 - 29.07.2015
- Converted to Alpha 11
- Centipede: now adoptable
1.04a - 14.06.2015
- Minor fixes
- Added "full repair" button to mechanoids
1.04 - 13.06.2015
- Converted to Alpha 10
- Removed PAL
- Owned mechanoids now deteriorate over time, colonists will take care of the repairs
AuthorsOrion (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=33462)
JoeysLucky22 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=35066)
DownloadDropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e40m4q9i6o1gnng/AABQWm4bulCmozfnDDgFN3iVa?dl=0)
I'm not updating the mod here anymore, but if you really want the latest version, you can get it from GitHub (https://github.com/OrionFive/MoreMechanoids) (press the download button)
How to install- Delete old folder from this mod (MoreMechanoids)
- Unzip the contents into your RimWorld/Mods folder.
- Activate the mod in the mod menu in the game and restart the game.
awesome!
in the future you should add a large variety of mechanoids!Keep up good work.
That looks really cool.
Sounds like they can be quite vicious in melee though, what about disassembly of them? Will they be like normal mechanoids or just drop some scrap/metal or be corpses that have to be buried/burned/exploded?
They are indeed quite vicious, you don't want to get surrounded by them. But sentry guns have... an effective way of dealing with them.
They are disassembled just like regular mechanoids, but yield much less resources.
So will they raid in conjunction with the vanilla mechs or just by themselves?
Would it be possible to add a bill to their health tab in addition to "shutdown" called "hack AI"? To repurpose them into little mini hauler / cleaner bots or something? (I've always thought you should be able to hack downed mechs) having my own army of mini mechs would be epic :P
I'll have to try this mod out.
I just started new on ice sheet, so anyone tryed this one and can tell me they come with ther bigger brothers or slone? X))
Sounds very intresting, but right now i would start new if they would be together, not seperated
Nice! I made textures for something just like this last night!
(http://i.imgur.com/qwcTCIL.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Lh6Fdy4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/mm1agjg.png)
I'm Trying to wrap my head around XML and DLL modding. I know a bit of C# and unity so hopefully I can figure it out soon.
Here are a few I've made so far:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ao3mJJ0.png)
edit: Awesome!
(http://i.imgur.com/D9rAb7d.png)
Quote from: Loki88 on January 11, 2015, 09:27:09 AM
Would it be possible to add a bill to their health tab in addition to "shutdown" called "hack AI"? To repurpose them into little mini hauler / cleaner bots or something? (I've always thought you should be able to hack downed mechs) having my own army of mini mechs would be epic :P
God please tell me you can that would be amazing
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 11:43:53 AM
Nice! I made textures for something just like this last night!
(http://i.imgur.com/qwcTCIL.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Lh6Fdy4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/mm1agjg.png)
I'm Trying to wrap my head around XML and DLL modding. I know a bit of C# and unity so hopefully I can figure it out soon.
Here are a few I've made so far:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ao3mJJ0.png)
edit: Awesome!
(http://i.imgur.com/D9rAb7d.png)
Damn JoeysLucky22.
Every time I see your texture I go WOW. I a huge fan of them.
Quote from: Epyk on January 11, 2015, 04:11:43 PM
Damn JoeysLucky22.
Every time I see your texture I go WOW. I a huge fan of them.
Haha thanks man! I could make these all day but I'd really like to be able to code some of them too.
Thanks to Orion's code, I was able to add another mechanoid that instantly incapacitates anyone that comes within melee range (using Skullywags tazer code) so that's pretty cool! I'm still making adjustments and figuring out what XML properties I can use so hopefully I'll be able to contribute a little more than textures.
Is there a source XML for the two current mechanoids or do I need to go DLL digging?
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: Epyk on January 11, 2015, 04:11:43 PM
Damn JoeysLucky22.
Every time I see your texture I go WOW. I a huge fan of them.
Haha thanks man! I could make these all day but I'd really like to be able to code some of them too.
Thanks to Orion's code, I was able to add another mechanoid that instantly incapacitates anyone that comes within melee range (using Skullywags tazer code) so that's pretty cool! I'm still making adjustments and figuring out what XML properties I can use so hopefully I'll be able to contribute a little more than textures.
Is there a source XML for the two current mechanoids or do I need to go DLL digging?
Rimworld657win/Mods/Core/Defs/PawnKindDefs/Pawnkinds_Mechanoids.xml
Starting point maybe? there's likely a bunch of related files and other stuff hidden in .DLL land...
Good luck man, your textures are amazing and I'd love to see them implemented ( Especially if my suggestion for hacking mechanoids becomes a reality )
Hahahahahahahahaha just for a warning 120+ crawler drop squad. I dont have a base anymore ;)
Thanks for all the feedback!
Joey, do you mind if I use your textures for the mod? They're fantastic, and frankly, I suck at texturing ;)
I wouldn't mind combining our efforts and can probably teach you a thing or two about xml and dll modding. I'm sure everyone would benefit!
Quote from: Loki88 on January 11, 2015, 09:27:09 AM
Would it be possible to add a bill to their health tab in addition to "shutdown" called "hack AI"? To repurpose them into little mini hauler / cleaner bots or something? (I've always thought you should be able to hack downed mechs) having my own army of mini mechs would be epic :P
I love the idea! I'm gonna look into this...
Quote from: Derringer97 on January 11, 2015, 11:46:56 PM
Hahahahahahahahaha just for a warning 120+ crawler drop squad. I dont have a base anymore ;)
Yikes, I'll tweak them down a little bit ;)
Quote from: Loki88 on January 11, 2015, 09:19:56 AM
So will they raid in conjunction with the vanilla mechs or just by themselves?
They come separately when raiding, but together when spawned by AI. I'll look into fixing this.
Okay, I have
- tweaked the amount of crawlers
- made them spawn together with vanilla mechanoids
Once I have Joey's permission I will upload the new version with his graphics.
Quote from: Orion on January 12, 2015, 10:45:43 AMJoey, do you mind if I use your textures for the mod? They're fantastic, and frankly, I suck at texturing ;)
Haha! you did a fine job with the originals! Quite a cool coincidence I had made a texture for that exact type of mechanoid the day before you released this mod. You can absolutely use these! I'll send the others over as well.
Hit me up with a PM if you have any other ideas for mechanoids and I'll throw some textures your way. I'll probably have some XML / DLL questions in the not so distant future :)
you know - i love this.
but i always wanted the ancient ship to work differently - like it would continuesly pump out mechanoids (like daily or randomly - perhaps each time the psionic ramp up) and the ones that would appear would attack right away (while the ones that come out while damage happens would be on guard duty)
fantastic textures there!.
Okay, here are the chopped up textures for the ones posted earlier. Still working on a few more. I'd love to see what you can do with the "assimilated" male & female mechanoids ;)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/1654w7ms3ntoofh/Mechanoids.zip
...Your colony will be assimilated...
(http://i.imgur.com/qmUnwhd.png)
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: Epyk on January 11, 2015, 04:11:43 PM
Damn JoeysLucky22.
Every time I see your texture I go WOW. I a huge fan of them.
I was able to add another mechanoid that instantly incapacitates anyone that comes within melee range (using Skullywags tazer code)
Horrific....do not want...
Quote from: skullywag on January 12, 2015, 12:55:12 PMHorrific....do not want...
You're too late skullywag. You're far too late...
There's no stopping them now...
(http://i.imgur.com/Pbl9D4n.png)
I like this!
Oh my gosh
suddenly my own mechanoids doesn't seem all that cool now =P
I have some experience of tazer mechs! I made some very tiny buggers armed with skully's tazers last alpha
to test with, one of them would knock out nearly all my colonists when I riled up the spaceship part
so I do hope those tazer guys ain't fast cause they have the potential to end colonies
same thing with extremely cheap and small melee buggers (very hard to balance for endgame)
let's just say these guys scare me, alot ;D
This mod is great! I love the small crawlers. The first encounter I had with them, they dropped down right inside me base and went on to chew everything to pieces. Turrets' best way of dealing with them is to explode xD they might need to have their damage turned down a bit, because they can kill colonists in seconds if there are three+ attacking at the same time. But anyways, I love this, it is so good!
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 11:43:53 AM
Nice! I made textures for something just like this last night!
Way to hijack the thread jerk! Lol awesome textures, please tell me you are going to release a texture pack for this game?
I like the red eyes, it'd be amazing if your pawns would change looks as they get more implants / bionics!
On the topic though it'd be neat if these little guys could be strung together somehow like a millipede and if you destroy a middle piece then you have two pieces that are independent. So one long snake comes in and the more you destroy it the more little snakes you have to deal with... pray to the coding gods eh lol
they are hella strong.
Like 150 dropped in front of my base and crushed everyone in a blink of a eye >D
Those are some sweet looking mechanoids Joey..
Orion, What are your plans for the future of this?
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 12, 2015, 12:54:44 PM
Okay, here are the chopped up textures for the ones posted earlier. Still working on a few more. I'd love to see what you can do with the "assimilated" male & female mechanoids ;)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/1654w7ms3ntoofh/Mechanoids.zip
...Your colony will be assimilated...
(http://i.imgur.com/qmUnwhd.png)
Cybermafhuewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwg *gets cut off*
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 12, 2015, 01:46:36 PM
Quote from: skullywag on January 12, 2015, 12:55:12 PMHorrific....do not want...
You're too late skullywag. You're far too late...
There's no stopping them now...
(http://i.imgur.com/Pbl9D4n.png)
This sh*t is hella scary...................................... i want it now and fast!!!!
Im pretty sure. Infact i am deffo sure i can make one of the red eyed colonists spawn when "killed" by one of these mechs. Infact its simple as ive already done it somewhat in my purpleivy mod. Destroy the pawn on projectile hit or whatever and genspawn a new mech pawn setfactiondirect and yer done. Can do some other checks for sex of the killed pawn to match it up but thats just gravy....
Version 1.01 is released, featuring Joey's graphics, a bit of tuning and spawning together with vanilla mechanoids.
Quote from: Coenmcj on January 12, 2015, 07:52:44 PM
Orion, What are your plans for the future of this?
Good question. For now I'm gonna see if I can join forces with Joey, since he's got great textures and great ideas. I like the assimilation idea, although generally I think it's too powerful if the player not only loses a pawn, but the enemy gains one on the spot as well.
Maybe the AI could kidnap pawns and then release them as assimilated versions in return a while later. The player would at least have a chance to prevent it. I'll have to think about it :)
WoW !! The new crawler is so cute~
I want one to be my pet *_*
I don't want to play with human anymore =(
And Bravo for your work, it's amazing =)
Quote from: Orion on January 13, 2015, 04:28:26 AM
Good question. For now I'm gonna see if I can join forces with Joey, since he's got great textures and great ideas. I like the assimilation idea, although generally I think it's too powerful if the player not only loses a pawn, but the enemy gains one on the spot as well.
Maybe the AI could kidnap pawns and then release them as assimilated versions in return a while later. The player would at least have a chance to prevent it. I'll have to think about it :)
You could try a whole 'nother Mechanoid type which is purely to assimilate, no attacks, is somewhat slow but goes after any incapped colonists
That's indeed what I was thinking... the snatcher bot :)
EDIT: I read your post again - maybe not exactly what I was thinking XD but close!
Not quite eh, You're going for more a hit and run, while I'm thinking moreso on the spot, there in the thick of it.
If I try to picture it, I also find it a bit odd if they convert a person on the spot. I'd expect some lengthy operation to get it done (at the very least an on the spot brain surgery).
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 11:43:53 AM
I'm Trying to wrap my head around XML and DLL modding. I know a bit of C# and unity so hopefully I can figure it out soon.
Here are a few I've made so far:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ao3mJJ0.png)
These are great! Are they implemented in the mod yet?
Quote from: Timber on January 13, 2015, 12:36:44 PM
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 11:43:53 AM
I'm Trying to wrap my head around XML and DLL modding. I know a bit of C# and unity so hopefully I can figure it out soon.
Here are a few I've made so far:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ao3mJJ0.png)
These are great! Are they implemented in the mod yet?
They are not in the mod at the moment but I am currently working on it ;)
Quote from: Orion on January 13, 2015, 10:34:52 AM
If I try to picture it, I also find it a bit odd if they convert a person on the spot. I'd expect some lengthy operation to get it done (at the very least an on the spot brain surgery).
Fair point, I was thinking of something on par with
Husks from the mass effect series, but that makes alot more sense.
What if those guys with red eyes are the race who built the mechanoid which decided to turn their bodies into steel for better performance and they are split in 2 groups, those without armor, and those with plasteel armor, the latter being very rare and strong maybe?
Bredf, sounds interesting too... some sort of super high tech faction - maybe the ones behind the mechanoid attacks in the first place...
Idea: 2nd row 4,5,6 texture
Since they are shielded from the front, they could be made close combat specialists that have 100% dmg resistance from the front side (if that can be coded).
Taking them down would require some good positioning and bait tactics
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 13, 2015, 02:08:46 PM
They are not in the mod at the moment but I am currently working on it ;)
Can't wait to try it out!
Now i dont mean to be a downer, but i was thinking for those people who want to amp up the difficulty maybe a suicide bot that explodes much like a turret. Except it hunts walls and your defenses 8)
Quote from: Derringer97 on January 14, 2015, 09:23:56 PM
Now i dont mean to be a downer, but i was thinking for those people who want to amp up the difficulty maybe a suicide bot that explodes much like a turret. Except it hunts walls and your defenses 8)
Pls...pls no D:
Quote from: Derringer97 on January 14, 2015, 09:23:56 PM
[..] i was thinking for those people who want to amp up the difficulty maybe a suicide bot that explodes much like a turret. Except it hunts walls and your defenses 8)
I think row 3, image 7-9 look like just that. If slow enough, it could be fun - especially if you manage to blow them up early and damage surrounding enemies with it.
Row 3 image 4-6 should use a short range but deadly flamethrower. And row 2 img 4-6 should have low health but have a high chance to deflect bullets (like 60% maybe) and have a high damage weapon.
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/crawler2.png)
Good news: I'm making steady progress with crawler domestication. Probably next version you'll be able to get one yourself.
Quote from: Derringer97 on January 14, 2015, 09:23:56 PM
Now i dont mean to be a downer, but i was thinking for those people who want to amp up the difficulty maybe a suicide bot that explodes much like a turret. Except it hunts walls and your defenses 8)
I think to be able to do something like this for a pawn you would have to set up a custom death type action based off the boomrat(at least if you want it to blow up when the pawn dies) but if you wanted it to have a suicide attack that the bot activates I imagine you could set up a weapon in the weapondef.xml that the bot triggers when it gets in the weapons target range(, though if you set the death action type to so that the bots explodes and give them a suicide 'weapon' when they blow themselves up with the weapon they would likely trigger the death action and explode again.) then you could try making a slightly modified the subthintree_duty code here for the suicide bots as seen here:
<!-- Assault colony -->
<li>
<key>AssaultColony</key>
<value Class="ThinkNode_Priority">
<subNodes>
<li Class="Decorator_UpdateEnemyTarget">
<targetAcquireRadius>65</targetAcquireRadius>
<targetKeepRadius>72</targetKeepRadius>
</li>
<li Class="JobGiver_AIAttackTarget" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashCloseBuildings" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashBuildings" />
</subNodes>
</value>
</li>
<!-- Hunt enemies individual -->
<li>
<key>HuntEnemiesIndividual</key>
<value Class="ThinkNode_Priority">
<subNodes>
<li Class="Decorator_UpdateEnemyTarget">
<targetAcquireRadius>9999</targetAcquireRadius>
<targetKeepRadius>9999</targetKeepRadius>
</li>
<li Class="JobGiver_AIAttackTarget" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashCloseBuildings" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashBuildings" />
</subNodes>
</value>
</li>
so that they look like this:
<!-- Assault colony -->
<li>
<key>AssaultColony</key>
<value Class="ThinkNode_Priority">
<subNodes>
<li Class="Decorator_UpdateEnemyTarget">
<targetAcquireRadius>65</targetAcquireRadius>
<targetKeepRadius>72</targetKeepRadius>
</li>
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashCloseBuildings" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashBuildings" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AIAttackTarget" />
</subNodes>
</value>
</li>
<!-- Hunt enemies individual -->
<li>
<key>HuntEnemiesIndividual</key>
<value Class="ThinkNode_Priority">
<subNodes>
<li Class="Decorator_UpdateEnemyTarget">
<targetAcquireRadius>9999</targetAcquireRadius>
<targetKeepRadius>9999</targetKeepRadius>
</li>
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashCloseBuildings" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AITrashBuildings" />
<li Class="JobGiver_AIAttackTarget" />
</subNodes>
</value>
</li>
I may be wrong but a quick look at the jobgiver files in the .dlls seems to support the assumption I have that if you built a special subthinktree_duty.xml like for the suicide bots it would cause them to seek out building and utilities instead of the colonists, unless a colonist happens to be closer during the time that suicide bots are (re)determining their priority targets. Might be worth a try to see what happens at least. Worst comes to worst you'll have a bunch of suicide bots attempting to burn down the walls of your fortified colony before they run after the colonists inside for that final blaze of glory-- or the AI's behavior doesn't change at all. I was going to attempt to see if this worked for the chaser bugs, but I still have to tweak and create other files before I get to that point. Custom jobgivers and jobdriver entries might need to be created if this this doesn't work though, but this is all beyond my current level of expertise at the moment.Meh, food for thought.
As a suggestion, it might be a good idea to make the suicide bots either fast( maybe slower than the crawlers at least) but squishy and easy to kill or slightly slower than the scythers but with enough 'armor' to still pose a threat to fortified positions. In both cases it would be a good idea to make them rare enough that the colony doesn't get swamped with 100 of just these little monsters. Just food for thought because I think it would awesome to see something like this down the line for me to rage at. I just thought I might give my two cents on the Derringer's interesting idea.
Either way, this mod is awesome and I can't wait to see what new bots you come up with in the future. I salute you sir/madam/hivemind for creating the crawlers as well, they just feel like they should of been there all along. Keep up being awesome. ;D
Thanks for the contributions and the positive feedback!
I'm sure there'll be exploders at some point! I was also thinking a custom duty that ends with self-destruct would be the easiest way to accomplish them.
Quote from: Orion on January 15, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/crawler2.png)
Good news: I'm making steady progress with crawler domestication. Probably next version you'll be able to get one yourself.
So awesome !
You will revolutionize the mechanoid's concept.
I can't wait to see more !
Quote from: Orion on January 15, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/crawler2.png)
Good news: I'm making steady progress with crawler domestication. Probably next version you'll be able to get one yourself.
Wait a second... Crawlers charging at the enemy and then blowing up? YES!
please carry into alpha 9
We'll try our best ;)
Love these little buggers should be added to vanilla game :D
When is the next version coming out?
i'd like to see some mechs that act like the alpha beaver event but with exposed metal pockets.
maybe they could even multiply if they get enough metal.
This mod fits so well into the game you'll wonder why it wasn't already there. Kinda like the modular table, chairs, and solar panel mods. Absolute must have and thanks for making it!
Only thing is, they tend to be a bit too heavy hitting to be in 5+ groups. Mainly because of their speed. Just no time to get any shots off before your colonists are insta-gibbed one by one. Sorta forced to deal with them with turret-explosions or full melee weapon load-outs and hope one guy is left alive after it's all over. Also noticed that they show up VERY early on in my last playthrough. I tried cutting their damage values in half and they where still more challenging than any pirate raid but it did feel more "fair" :)
Don't get me wrong though. If a harder start to the game was the intent with these little guys then it's perfect ;) Granted most of the other mods I use tend to increase difficulty somehow so maybe this one just pushed it over the edge for me.
Oh and one last thing haha. I noticed you where working on a somehow "taming" these little guys? Just a suggestion but it might be easier to allow them to be reverse engineered. Wouldn't even need to be controllable. They'd just zip around in your home territory attacking any hostiles they encountered? Cuzz.., you know...., being able to directly control dozens of these guys may be game breaking to say the least :)
probably just copy ai from the mechanical defense mod for its droids to just be able to combat and haul. unable to equip or man guns either.
Thanks for the feedback guys!
Quote from: caboose410 on January 24, 2015, 07:17:31 PM
When is the next version coming out?
When it's ready ;)
But seriously, I'm trying my best fixing the last loose ends for the next release. It will include convertable crawlers and maybe something Joey cooked up, we'll see.
Quote from: OldVamp on January 24, 2015, 07:37:04 PM
i'd like to see some mechs that act like the alpha beaver event but with exposed metal pockets.
maybe they could even multiply if they get enough metal.
That was actually the original idea for the crawlers, but it turned out rather tricky to program (as did everything else, tbh). Maybe we'll see that at a later point, maybe not.
Quote from: 200Down on January 25, 2015, 02:14:09 AM
This mod fits so well into the game you'll wonder why it wasn't already there. Kinda like the modular table, chairs, and solar panel mods. Absolute must have and thanks for making it!
You're welcome! The fitting part is mostly thanks to Joey, but I wouldn't mind it becoming part of the main game at all ;)
They could be toned down a bit, but I actually feel they're easier to handle than the vanilla mechanoids. I guess plenty of playtesting will show...
The way converting them will work is as following:
- You can craft an AI chip at the machining bench
- You insert the chip into a dead crawler and choose a function (hauling, cleaning, plant cutting)
- You don't have direct control over them, so they slave away until they break
I might add melee later, but for now it turned out to be a bit more tricky than the rest. Unfortunately it takes more than just copy and pasting from another mod, else I'd have been done a long time ago.
I was considering that they'd need to rest / recharge, but it adds quite some more complexity that delays development unnecessarily. So I chose that they can short circuit, adding some amount of maintenance to your army of robot slaves ;)
We've released version 1.02 of this mod! It's now called "More Mechanoids" to reflect the fact that there's more than just crawlers now.
Crawlers can be adopted in your base after destroying them (and maybe soon other kinds of mechanoids as well...).
We've got more new mechanoids in the lineup, so those battles will never be boring again ;)
Terrible name for a droid...;)
super awesome! great work!
Quote from: Orion on January 30, 2015, 03:21:05 AM
We've released version 1.02 of this mod! It's now called "More Mechanoids" to reflect the fact that there's more than just crawlers now.
Crawlers can be adopted in your base after destroying them (and maybe soon other kinds of mechanoids as well...).
We've got more new mechanoids in the lineup, so those battles will never be boring again ;)
Very cool concept, wasn't too interested in just another kind of mechanoid, but a mechanoid that I can adopt and call "My Squishy"? Hell yes.
Dont make the new droid tameable...i dont want to be called "my squishy". :(
Quote from: skullywag on January 30, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Dont make the new droid tameable...i dont want to be called "my squishy". :(
Awe man :(
Quote from: skullywag on January 30, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Dont make the new droid tameable...i dont want to be called "my squishy". :(
lol
crawlers have a food bar? Also how do i install the chip into the crawler? i have a chip and a dead crawler but it wont let me add modifications
Quote from: GiantCookieEater on January 30, 2015, 03:17:07 PM
crawlers have a food bar? Also how do i install the chip into the crawler? i have a chip and a dead crawler but it wont let me add modifications
The food bar is a vanilla feature. I recall someone posted a screenshot a while back where a bunch of Centipedes had starved to death trying to get through his killbox.
IDEA! Sleeper Mechs. Basically a random raider or spacer or vistor could be a Sleeper Mech, waiting for the command to wake up and wreak havoc, they would go near objects of importance and break/steal them. They would look like a regular human but with a slight difference that they have a faint scar on their head or torso, maybe there can be a Sleeper Bomber, like a Sleeper Mech but will detonate on colonists when mechanoids raid
Quote from: skullywag on January 30, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Dont make the new droid tameable...i dont want to be called "my squishy". :(
I shall call you Squishy and you shall be mine, and you will be My Squishy!
Resistance, is useless!
Edit: I just got attacked by 20 crawlers with 5 colonists, ouch. No dealing with that :D
Quote from: skullywag on January 30, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Dont make the new droid tameable...i dont want to be called "my squishy". :(
How about we all just pretend noone is renaming skullywag?
Quote from: GiantCookieEater on January 30, 2015, 03:17:07 PM
crawlers have a food bar? Also how do i install the chip into the crawler? i have a chip and a dead crawler but it wont let me add modifications
You need to do the research and then use the workbench. I'll have to see how I can make that clearer. I messed around with it for a long time and the workbench solution just turned out to be easier than the bill on the mechanoid.
Maybe I can fix the food bar to be hidden ;)
Quote from: Orion on January 31, 2015, 03:50:09 AM
Quote from: skullywag on January 30, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Dont make the new droid tameable...i dont want to be called "my squishy". :(
How about we all just pretend noone is renaming skullywag?
Quote from: GiantCookieEater on January 30, 2015, 03:17:07 PM
crawlers have a food bar? Also how do i install the chip into the crawler? i have a chip and a dead crawler but it wont let me add modifications
You need to do the research and then use the workbench. I'll have to see how I can make that clearer. I messed around with it for a long time and the workbench solution just turned out to be easier than the bill on the mechanoid.
Maybe I can fix the food bar to be hidden ;)
My bad i didnt see that there was another thing of research after the reprogramming one. Also i had a crawler drop pod ambush of like 10 of them my first night. How many are there suppose to be i almost lost my colony the first night
What difficulty did you play? It's still very much in the process of tweaking and balancing. I'm glad to hear if it's too much / too easy from different people.
Cool mod! Almost immediately after I started a game, I was attacked by mechs. Wasn't a problem since they were only crawlers. And that's where I discounted them and how much of a threat they were. I was down to 1 barely alive colonist trying to heal the other two. It really adds a new perspective than "hide behind this wall and don't stop shooting"
5/5, awesome
does anyone have pictures of the new mech
Quote from: Orion on January 31, 2015, 04:00:14 AM
What difficulty did you play? It's still very much in the process of tweaking and balancing. I'm glad to hear if it's too much / too easy from different people.
i was on the one below challenging and almost instantly (i had a small hut with 3 beds and a windmill) mechs have dropped right on top of you and it was the little buggers. that was my first red envelope
What a awesome mod! I have seen many "droid" type mods but this one is my absolute favourite! Please expand this mod!
I have a few question though. The bench keeps copying jobs in the selection menu so now I have 6 crafting chips, 6 making hauler bots etc..
And what is the deal with short-circuiting bots? Is it because there wet or is it just random? And how random is that. Has is something to do with crafting level?
Quote from: GrumpyLion89 on January 31, 2015, 06:19:23 AM
What a awesome mod! I have seen many "droid" type mods but this one is my absolute favourite! Please expand this mod!
I have a few question though. The bench keeps copying jobs in the selection menu so now I have 6 crafting chips, 6 making hauler bots etc..
And what is the deal with short-circuiting bots? Is it because there wet or is it just random? And how random is that. Has is something to do with crafting level?
It's all a bit work in progress and I want to see how people respond to the various things. Obviously there has to be a downside to fast workers that don't need food or any other sort of maintenance. So right now there is just a chance that a bot short-circuits and causes some damage. Currently it is not linked to any specific factor, although I could imagine linking it their time in service.
The bench copying jobs is plainly a bug and I'll look into fixing it as soon as possible. Thanks for pointing it out!
Maybe there it is a possibility to let them require maintenance? And give them a option to be repaired? Now you need to shut them down when they are to damaged to do their jobs. Anyway, the mod is already very awesome. So I'm not complaining or anything.
Yeah I was thinking about that too. But in practice it's a bit tricky to do. Like people resting in the medibeds, they have to hold still for someone to work on them.
I'll have to see what can be done.
Quote from: Orion on January 31, 2015, 09:13:01 AM
Yeah I was thinking about that too. But in practice it's a bit tricky to do. Like people resting in the medibeds, they have to hold still for someone to work on them.
I'll have to see what can be done.
Maybe have some of their parts get broke over time. Like a leg malfunctions and slows them down or the core breaks open and put it in the health bar (Core-Broken Over heating) or something like that and then add new limbs for them. Maybe add a battery pack that you need to craft at the bench along with the limbs and parts. Craft leg part, craft eye assembly, craft core assembly (this will cost a big amount but not to much like 2 gold 1 plasteal and 1 steal). And if the core part breaks open you cant fix it you have to replace the crawler all together.
again just ideas.
Definitely thanks for the input. From the short circuits they do already damage body parts, which affect their functionality.
Crafting individual body parts seems overkill and doesn't make it more interesting. But maybe disassembling mechanoids will yield spare parts which you can then use to fix broken bots with.
I "may" be able to help in terms of repairing mechs, if you can get them getting "injuries", i reckon i can get a repair bay sorted, heavily based on my self heal casket, cant promise anything but it seems like it would work.
Injuries should be no problem!
We can definitely give it a try!
Quote from: GrumpyLion89 on January 31, 2015, 06:19:23 AM
The bench keeps copying jobs in the selection menu so now I have 6 crafting chips, 6 making hauler bots etc..
I've just released a fix that will take care of this bug, but also spawns less crawlers.
Quote from: Orion on January 31, 2015, 11:15:09 AM
Quote from: GrumpyLion89 on January 31, 2015, 06:19:23 AM
The bench keeps copying jobs in the selection menu so now I have 6 crafting chips, 6 making hauler bots etc..
I've just released a fix that will take care of this bug, but also spawns less crawlers.
Oh thank god my bench was geting more than 6 copys. An ya the body part where overkill but it was an idea if at best. I like the pulling parts off dead mechs. and skullys repair bay idea sounds cool maybe use a hopper with the spart parts pointed in to the repair bay and if the crawlers get a broken part they can run there. Dont get me wrong i think it should still have a chance to short circuit and be useless still. Just a smaller chance of it happening. I had another idea but i forgot it (Go figure huh) ::)
Thanks! But now I can't craft the chips and install them in the bots any more. I made sure I had plasteel. Changed storage, re-constructed the table. Also, if a bot gets killed colonist get a -15 mood penalty from unburied colonist. Bug or just start a new game?
Hm, I had that too at some point. Reconstructing indeed helped.
I'll look into the mood penalty. Doesn't seem fair, indeed. Let's call it a bug / oversight.
Quote from: Orion on February 01, 2015, 04:03:29 AM
Hm, I had that too at some point. Reconstructing indeed helped.
I'll look into the mood penalty. Doesn't seem fair, indeed. Let's call it a bug / oversight.
If the bot get fixed the mood penalty is gone. So it's not that big of a deal. Only it's not something one expects to happen :p Thanks
unfinished AIChip sometimes appear in the drop pods and causes some errors and glitches interface
New hotfix! Sorry for having so many issues in the mod - I don't have a lot of time for testing super thoroughly, so thanks to everyone who reports in issues!
Quote from: bullet on February 01, 2015, 04:25:33 AM
unfinished AIChip sometimes appear in the drop pods and causes some errors and glitches interface
Should be fixed now.
Quote from: GrumpyLion89 on January 31, 2015, 04:36:18 PM
[..] now I can't craft the chips and install them in the bots any more [..]
[..] if a bot gets killed colonist get a -15 mood penalty from unburied colonist. [..]
Both fixed.
cool, went to test )
Quote from: Orion on February 01, 2015, 05:07:46 AM
New hotfix! Sorry for having so many issues in the mod - I don't have a lot of time for testing super thoroughly, so thanks to everyone who reports in issues!
Quote from: bullet on February 01, 2015, 04:25:33 AM
unfinished AIChip sometimes appear in the drop pods and causes some errors and glitches interface
Should be fixed now.
Quote from: GrumpyLion89 on January 31, 2015, 04:36:18 PM
[..] now I can't craft the chips and install them in the bots any more [..]
[..] if a bot gets killed colonist get a -15 mood penalty from unburied colonist. [..]
Both fixed.
No problem at all. it is a very unique mod, so it is no shame that is has some issues with a new release.
And you fix them almost as soon as we notice them :) So, kuddo's ;)
nearly forgot to say - very good mod )
But " Fixed: Dead bots cause bad thoughts" not quite working. When a bot dies, I still crying and looks upset. Maybe a need some of controlling? because a very hardworking guys and they do not care about feuds with pirates and former relatives. For some it's just a crawler-hauler \ gardener 1-2-3, but for me it's Bob, Bill, Mr. Crab .. Bill's wife returned to him, Bob perfectly plays the guitar. Mr. Crab finished evening courses and wants to resume his studies at the institute. very good guys, they should not be dying so stupid. It's not fair.
May be we needs some a simple beacon that when turning on, can to help them forget about their affairs and get some rest beside him until everything settles? maybe it's can be resolved with new personal settings of global work searching...
By the way, notice that their angry relatives have a weakness for the meals, especially to a draw packaged survival meal. Maybe because it's yellow. yeah. I can understand them - nice color.
Looks especially funny if they did not have time to eating a meal because found a new target for the beating. Then they run with food as with the flag. Maybe need to wean them from it? well, or give them flags ... yellows probably
I had some trouble understanding your post. I think what you meant is that you would like a way to keep them out of battles.
I will think about it. But I believe it's just another downside of having a "free" hauler.
Complex sentences is still not easy for me. Excuse me for my clumsy English. But yes, the point is that the bots are not controlled and therefore quickly die during the clashes. Maybe I did not quite understand your point, but they are not so free, if you count the cost of resources and their life expectancy. In any case, I not criticize and just trying to help to improve your work. :-X
Also I noticed that bots can get short circuit like the battery in the rain. But still not convinced that this is so (it's happened couple times and I'm not quite sure of the reason) ???
Bots short circuit randomly, just as power cables do. It's hard to come by extra colonists, so there have to be drawbacks to a worker that you can create unlimited of...
Thanks for your input in any case!
Dr. Stein's Ward
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/skullywag.png)
**hold still, this will only hurt for a second**
Quote from: Orion on February 01, 2015, 11:42:45 AM
Dr. Stein's Ward
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/skullywag.png)
**hold still, this will only hurt for a second**
When will this happen please tell me that would be awsome
It's a sneak peek for the next version ;)
Quote from: Orion on February 01, 2015, 02:55:14 PM
It's a sneak peek for the next version ;)
Interesting! I have given it some thought. I have know knowledge of modding so I hope I am not going to say stupid things here but maybe this are some ideas you can think about:
- I think the shortcircuit mechanic is a good trade-of to the free "man"power in your base, however I think their should be a way to get around that - And that get around should be very expensive
- What about some kind of upgrade system? The first tier can have a lithium battery, if it runs out, it needs to be replaced. Second tier, a solar panel, It needs to be outside during daylight to charge. third tier, a dynamo system, it recharges itself during its jobs.
This can expand in other area's as well, titanium cores for durability, conducted wiring against short-circuiting and so on.
I hope this input is somewhat valuable, I am curious where you are going to take this mod :)
Quick error, I'm getting a TON of repeat commands when I do a bill at the Machining table, and narrowed it down to this mod. D:
Add a building that takes an AI core, without it on the map (very easy to check for) the units still short circuit. Name it AI controller or some such gubbins. Lore is it helps them process their tasks so they dont overload.
Quote from: Khaosius789 on February 02, 2015, 02:58:22 AM
Quick error, I'm getting a TON of repeat commands when I do a bill at the Machining table, and narrowed it down to this mod. D:
Thanks for reporting this. Are you using version 1.02b? Are you using any other mods that use the machining table?
Could you make a screenshot of the error, including the whole message?
Quote from: skullywag on February 02, 2015, 03:02:50 AM
Add a building that takes an AI core, without it on the map (very easy to check for) the units still short circuit. Name it AI controller or some such gubbins. Lore is it helps them process their tasks so they dont overload.
That'd work, although I don't particularly like it. Maintenance should be relative to the amount of bots you're running, also it doesn't feel very natural like that. I really prefer the idea of a repair bay where the bots park for maintenance.
Quote from: Orion on February 02, 2015, 09:34:48 AM
Quote from: Khaosius789 on February 02, 2015, 02:58:22 AM
Quick error, I'm getting a TON of repeat commands when I do a bill at the Machining table, and narrowed it down to this mod. D:
Thanks for reporting this. Are you using version 1.02b? Are you using any other mods that use the machining table?
Could you make a screenshot of the error, including the whole message?
When I loaded up the game to take the screen shot, error was gone, so maybe just a glitch. xD Thanks for the quick reply though!
Would it be hard, for my personal use, to create a console with a "call all crawlers" command, and a "back to work" one?
When under attack it's really sad to watch them go suicide hauling stuff around..
Quote from: Asfalto on February 02, 2015, 10:24:07 PM
Would it be hard, for my personal use, to create a console with a "call all crawlers" command, and a "back to work" one?
When under attack it's really sad to watch them go suicide hauling stuff around..
Or have a small Antenna that you need to have built in order to control them? And then that Antenna could have Recall and Work buttons...
Quote from: Asfalto on February 02, 2015, 10:24:07 PM
Would it be hard, for my personal use, to create a console with a "call all crawlers" command, and a "back to work" one?
I kinda like the idea. I'm not sure how hard it would be, though. I would say it's a bit further on the tricky side.
I'm pretty incredibly ignorant of the code involved but could you draft the crawlers?
Quote from: Boboid on February 03, 2015, 03:04:46 AM
I'm pretty incredibly ignorant of the code involved but could you draft the crawlers?
In theory yes, but
a) I broke it in the process of making them :P and
b) Since they're not human, I think you shouldn't have direct control over them
Understandable that you don't want direct control over pre-programmed robots that you've already re-programmed for your own purposes.
They'd have waay more independence than humans :P
Jokes aside - Understandable, was just a suggested bandaid-solution to the "All my mechs decided to have a dance party in the middle of no-mans land"
Is the short circuit thing with the crawlers the trade-off to having them work for you? If so, then I accept it, though, they tended to all short circuit within the same time period (5 minutes). They're extremely useful and huge time savers when there's enough. I have no real problems with this mod so far, and it's worked well with the other ones. Overall, good work :D
Quote from: Encode on February 03, 2015, 07:21:15 AM
Why are crawlers going crazy/rampage, like humanoids?
they will function as normal but will get shot/attacked by other pawns...
I left it in cause I thought it was nice. You build robots? Expect them to malfunction and stomp you into the ground.
Maybe I should add that you can build an AI control center (friends call it "HAL") that is foolproof and incapable of error which controls doors (they open faster!), sentry guns (improved targeting algorithms!), bots (they break down less often) and other facilities. Obviously this one will
never malfunction, go crazy or try to subtly manipulate your colonists into killing each other.
Quote from: obviousguy on February 03, 2015, 04:17:15 AM
Is the short circuit thing with the crawlers the trade-off to having them work for you?
It is. They are indeed very powerful and strengthen your colonists a lot by doing those maintenance tasks. Short circuiting is by chance (storyteller driven), so it can happen often or not at all for a long time. If you really hate it, you can always modify the incident xml file and lower the chance, or increase the cooldown. They can still go crazy though.
Quote from: Orion on February 03, 2015, 09:23:49 AM
Maybe I should add that you can build an AI control center (friends call it "HAL") that is foolproof and incapable of error which controls doors (they open faster!), sentry guns (improved targeting algorithms!), bots (they break down less often) and other facilities. Obviously this one will never malfunction, go crazy or try to subtly manipulate your colonists into killing each other.
Yes plz!
I'm trying to understand how to do it. I thought maybe to look up in the code of another mode, (i think it's the Tactical Computer in Miscellaneus+MAI mods.), it already has 4 functions, call here all armed, call here all unarmed, call there and call there.
I'm a noob here tho, i know how to change xmls, not real coding. So.. plz do something!
It's saaaaad to see my crawlers go suicidal trying to haul something while under siege :(
is there any way to make the crawlers to capture the enemy?? ( those in pain in the floor) some times i got lots of enemies lying in the ground and want to capture it but go outside with -100c it's not a good idea xD
Quote from: xiuhte1 on February 03, 2015, 10:54:18 PM
is there any way to make the crawlers to capture the enemy?? ( those in pain in the floor) some times i got lots of enemies lying in the ground and want to capture it but go outside with -100c it's not a good idea xD
Sorry, that's not possible (within reasonable amount of effort). I'd have to mark the bots as humanoid, which creates a whole range of new problems. Although I believe I could maybe let them -always- haul incapacitated pawns, by making it a WorkType. But this would take the choice away from the player and also make it a work type for regular colonists.
Update: i tried to lookup in the decompiled files to "translate" the commands of the other mod (the gather colonists command from the tactical terminal) and i concluded it's out of my league, for now.
I understand what i read, but i don't understand how and where to modify the terminal to add a simple icon to call your crawlers :(
Quote from: Asfalto on February 04, 2015, 05:55:38 AM
Update: i tried to lookup in the decompiled files to "translate" the commands of the other mod [..] I understand what i read, but i don't understand how and where to modify the terminal to add a simple icon to call your crawlers :(
It's because it's not trivial. Getting it to work for the colonists is a different story than for the crawlers, so you can't just copy and paste it.
After reading most of the sugguestions, I've made my own little list of ideas
An AI Processing Core that's super power-hungry, but prevents bots from going crazy, or simply make it very rare for a bot to malfunction, a simple +120 mood effect when it's got power should do(which doesn't make it impossible to go mad, just very difficult)
-An event that disables the AI core for a random set time (possibly ranging from a day to two weeks?)
-Could need something like 10-20 AI persona cores to build it due to the need for processing power
-A very very rare event that instantly disables the core for a day, and makes all the bots malfunction for the duration of the core downtime
Someform of beacon that increases the likelihood of mechanoid activity(like Mechanoid Raids, maybe ship parts too, but that'd be a bit OP with the market value of the AI persona cores)
A system that adds negative mood effects for injuries(not the standard 'Oh noes, i'm not 100% health' debuff, but a 'I have 4 wounds, so I have IAmHurt X4, but maybe also including the standard debuff), thus making the more damage they take, the more likely they are to malfunction
A bed-like structure(in functionality) that repairs bots (like the MAI charger from the miscellaneous mod, and also kind of like a Droid Charge Pad from MD2)
-Bots automatically come to it when they need repairs
-Bots that are incapacitated are automatically selected to be hauled to the pad
-A resource cost, like Plasteel, could also vary between the amount of damage it's repairing, and the parts its repairing(Because rebuilding an arm of a mechanoid is more costly than ironing out a dent in a little toe(if mechanoids decided to grow toes, that is))
The ability for you to have your colony converted, yet still being able to play & have control over your converted colonists, but your colony is friendly to mechanoids after that point, but everything that hates mechanoids, now hates you...
-For a Mechanoid... uh... Mechanic? Builder? Something like that to spawn after you've been converted and simply replace non-metal walls&floors with metal floors, and do other changes to the colony to give it more of a shiny synthetic feel
-Access to mechanoid-themed buildings after being converted(could also have an optional plugin for allowing standard colonies to research those same buildings)
Self-replicating bot(s)? Maybe something like Replicators from Stargate
-A Group of Replicator Crawlers have arrived! Try to destroy them before they steal the entire map's resources and eventually come to kill you!(Alphabeavers see dem' rollin', Dey hatin')
Malfunctioning also being able to happen to enemy mechanoids if you build some kind of costly building, maybe an 'AI Process Interceptor' that 'Remotely sends malicious code to attacking mechanoids' and can either turn them friendly towards you(Don't attack colonists), disable their weapons(or make them unable to attack), make them join you, or make them just go insane
As for events
-occasional defective mechanoid visits your colony(Self-Aware Mechanoid is visiting your colony)
-Mechanoid siege. I feel as though this would be a good way to showcase some of the Mechanoid Hive tactics they supposedly use when not trying to kill us (Such as having crawlers collect resources to build more crawlers/combat units)
-Mechanoid randomly joining colony (like the visiting one, but joining)
-Mechanoid Assimilation (other colonies are having mechanoid issues and their manpower is significantly reduced, which would be good to show that you're not the only one that the mechanoids hate)
-Mechanoid Terraforming (mechanoids trying to control the entire planet's atmosphere, the temperature outside is a consistent 0 degrees with no weather events for a random amount of time)
-Raider-like mechanoid retreating(only occasionally though) where they try and kidnap other colonists whilst they retreat
-A mechanoid colony (A mechanoid colony has appeared, lead by a self-aware Mechanoid queen(or whatever the tip of the hierarchy is in Mechanoid Hive terms), they just add a new colony temporarily to the list, before they're re-assimilated into the usual mechanoid hive
-Mechanoid Mechanic trader (sells bot corpses and AI chips, plasteel, AI cores, Steel, that sort of thing.
-Mechanoid passing by(just avoid them and they won't be any issue, unless they malfunction with the Process Interceptor building I mentioned earlier)
Hope this super-long list gave some inspiration to such a great mod!
/\
Nice.
well the core not getting power during eclipses/flares would be your events no need to add specific ones.
Quote from: skullywag on February 04, 2015, 05:16:02 PM
well the core not getting power during eclipses/flares would be your events no need to add specific ones.
Any interest in adding yourself the two commands i was talking about?
Or telling me at least where to look..
ty
Quote from: Redshadow on February 04, 2015, 02:30:35 PM
Lots of cool ideas
Thanks for all the ideas! Some of them are close to what we envision - some of them vastly exceed the time I have for the mod. So we'll see what's doable and what fits with our goals for the mod.
Quote from: skullywag on February 04, 2015, 05:16:02 PM
well the core not getting power during eclipses/flares would be your events no need to add specific ones.
Yeah, but those only last for about a day, I feel like that'd make the core too reliable given that It usually takes quite a long time to make something go mad(Or a psionic wave). I'm thinking a separate event that disables it for a longer amount of time would make it a bit less reliable and make you focus somewhat more on the welfare of your bots (After all, you wouldn't want to get a giant endgame robot army and make it completely foolproof without a lot of maintenance now, would you?)
Also, an idea that I forgot to add was maybe add a small chance when a bot interacts with something or moves to a different tile, that it gets a tiny bit of damage to a corresponding part(Walking=Legs(or Body Rings for centipede) labour intensive work=arms & core/body/back, hauling=maybe everything (excluding brain & other non load-carrying parts)(heavy load giving strain to the entire frame of the bot)
I feel like that'd give a good sense of maintinence to a robot army, making it more difficult to be able to send all your colonists to cryptosleep and have the bots jus take care of everything, but infinitely more rewarding if you manage to solve the maintenance issue
Scythers & other friendly/reprogrammed combat related bots could be simply given an infinite 'Visit Colony' loop, I feel like that'd work decently
Don't worry, I'm convinced that's my last idea
+1 To the idea of being able to recall the mechanoids to a certain room in your base. A bunch of raiders droped into my base and wiped out all but 1 of my mechanoids and it was one of the 3 cleaners I had, lost all the haulers and had no plant cutters 'cause Ice Sheet.
Seems like the recalling bots feature is really high on everyone's priority list. I never really had much problems with it myself, but it probably is quite handy. I'll see what I can do, guys!
Quote from: Orion on February 06, 2015, 03:18:19 AM
Seems like the recalling bots feature is really high on everyone's priority list. I never really had much problems with it myself, but it probably is quite handy. I'll see what I can do, guys!
I know of two mods with generally similar functions. The Miscellaneous mod and the Clutter mod
Misc has the whatsit-doohickey computer(Which I'm sure just about everybody on Ludeon has heared of by now). The Clutter mod has a sofa that has a built-in toggle-able idle gathering point(Once colonists are idle, they'll generally wonder around the vicinity of the sofa). So maybe having something like the sofa, + set every bot to idle when the item is activated. Should work, might be a bit fiddly though
Quote from: Orion on February 06, 2015, 03:18:19 AM
Seems like the recalling bots feature is really high on everyone's priority list. I never really had much problems with it myself, but it probably is quite handy. I'll see what I can do, guys!
Much love.
I managed to handle them, even big numbers, still i'd love that terminal with few functions
Thx!
I was wrong, that wasn't my last idea...
Re-purpose combat mechanoids to wander around areas that have lots of non-combat mechanoids, that'd support the whole 'mechanoid HIVE' theme, right? Soldiers guarding workers.
Just noticed a bug.. maybe
I currently run a colony with only 9 colonists, and i had 5 crawlers for hauling.
The map isn't the biggest one, i think it is the 4th biggest map size available, but this doesn't really matter.
I mean: i noticed a UBER lag. i couldn't play anymore, it was like my other colony with 60+ colonists, where i tried to "stress" the game. But with only 9 colonists.
So i thought about the crawlers. Well, three out of 5 were harmed, and were moving slowly in the base (around 2.50 speed), more or less idling around.
I think that's because other healthy crawlers (and colonists) hauled things even before those harmed ones could notice it.
I killed them, kept only the healthy ones, and the game went back to normal
Hope this helps
Quote from: Asfalto on February 06, 2015, 05:08:39 PM
i noticed a UBER lag.
Thanks! I read somewhere else that idle colonists cause a lot of slowdown, and since the bots can only perform a single task, they probably idle a lot, once those tasks are done. Unfortunately we don't have access to profiling information to find out what exactly is causing the slowdown.
Maybe I can create some sort of "suspend mode" when there's nothing to do for them.
Quote from: Orion on February 07, 2015, 03:11:18 AM
Quote from: Asfalto on February 06, 2015, 05:08:39 PM
i noticed a UBER lag.
Thanks! I read somewhere else that idle colonists cause a lot of slowdown
And so my idea of a button that forces crawlers idle and move to an object is rendered useless until the game is super-optimized...
Curses!
Is there a way to remove the skullywags except of downloading 1.01? I can't handle them at all ^^
Siege Mechs or anything that would increase late, late, late game challenge man. Mentioned it in Tynan's "cheap" suggestions post but he'll never have time anyways so figured I'd suggest it here. Anyways, some bad-ass late game mech that could deal with your walls but is insainly slow and has nothing but a heavy hitting melee attack to bust down walls and for defense. Would mostly rely on other mechs for protection.
But yeah ANYTHING that would increase late game difficulty a bit. Don't honestly care what it is unless it's something totaly freaky like some mutant headless stripper chick with unusually large breasts for weapons ..... you know... that may not fit all that well. ::) Granted, it would see a lot of hits on a lets play youtube vid I'm sure.
Quote from: 200Down on February 07, 2015, 06:29:14 PM
...
And this, maybe after optimizing idling and those things.
Wish i could help..
Quote from: Ykara on February 07, 2015, 05:51:22 PM
Is there a way to remove the skullywags except of downloading 1.01? I can't handle them at all ^^
Here: Mods\MoreMechanoids\Defs\FactionDefs\CrawliesFactionDefs.xml
You could try changing this:
<kinds>
<li>Crawler</li>
<li>Crawler</li>
<li>Crawler</li>
<li>Skullywag</li>
</kinds>
To this:
<kinds>
<li>Crawler</li>
<li>Crawler</li>
<li>Crawler</li>
<li>Crawler</li>
</kinds>
Ether it will give you an error upon starting the game up OR it'll at least tone them down a bit haha. Now I could be entirely wrong but I'm guessing removing them from a their faction would remove them from at the least the raids if not the whole game. Someone correct me please.
I know what it's like really really enjoy a mod but just not being able to deal with one part of it for whatever reason. Difficulty is the worst offender sense mod authors are so familiar their creations, most often it'll be to hard rather than too easy for us noobs ;)
Quote from: Ykara on February 07, 2015, 05:51:22 PM
Is there a way to remove the skullywags except of downloading 1.01? I can't handle them at all ^^
What 200Down wrote is correct - that will remove them from raids.
Alternatively:
Mods\MoreMechanoids\Defs\ThingDefs\Races_Mechanoid.xml
Find the section <!-- Skullywag --> and after that the interesting lines are
<MoveSpeed>6</MoveSpeed> - lower it, if you want to make them slower
<meleeDamageBaseAmount>10</meleeDamageBaseAmount> - lower it, if you want them to take longer to incapacitate a colonist
<healthScale>1.0</healthScale> - lower it, if you want to give them less hitpoints (set it to 0.7 or something)
Also remember what changes you made, so when there's a new version you can make them again.
I believe I have narrowed a bug down to this mod. This mod seems to make saves unstable for me and makes Rimworld crash when I try to load them. More recently it seems to cause load errors when I start Rimworld. It works fine without the mod and it isn't a mod conflict since this mod is the only mod I have enabled that modify's Mechanoid Data. Just want to report this for you.
Quote from: Ykara on February 07, 2015, 05:51:22 PM
Is there a way to remove the skullywags
No im like a Tic, dug in and i aint comin out!
Many thanks guys, I made the Skullywags slower and now it's really fun to play and a nice variety, I just didn't like that just 6 of them could incapacitate my whole attack team in less than a minute ^^
Quote from: Ykara on February 08, 2015, 11:57:29 AM
Many thanks guys, I made the Skullywags slower and now it's really fun to play and a nice variety, I just didn't like that just 6 of them could incapacitate my whole attack team in less than a minute ^^
Hell I'm still using 1.01.., sounds like I'm missing quit allot without updating eh?
Quote from: 200Down on February 08, 2015, 12:43:13 PMHell I'm still using 1.01.., sounds like I'm missing quit allot without updating eh?
Yep, you're definitely missing a lot, this mod is awesome. My favourite feature are the reprogrammable crawlers, that's just awesome. You really should update, the idea of the skullywags is awesome too, maybe they're a little overpowered, but you know how to change this ^^
Quote from: Hayhorse on February 08, 2015, 10:22:26 AM
I believe I have narrowed a bug down to this mod. This mod seems to make saves unstable for me and makes Rimworld crash when I try to load them. More recently it seems to cause load errors when I start Rimworld. It works fine without the mod and it isn't a mod conflict since this mod is the only mod I have enabled that modify's Mechanoid Data. Just want to report this for you.
Thanks for letting me know! In my modder's naivety I did solve some problems in a pretty wonky way. It didn't cause any crashes for me yet, but of course that doesn't mean everything is right.
Yet, chances are, that it only shows in conjunction with another mod or something you do with the game that I don't. Could you maybe pm me the list of mods you're using it with?
It would be cool if it was possible to repair crawlers after you've reprogrammed them, maybe with extra plasteel or something.
Quote from: Giraffe on February 10, 2015, 01:34:53 AM
It would be cool if it was possible to repair crawlers after you've reprogrammed them, maybe with extra plasteel or something.
I will definitely look into it. For now priority is to fix lag issues with lots of bots and the possibility to keep them out of battles.
Quote from: Orion on February 10, 2015, 02:51:04 AM
Quote from: Giraffe on February 10, 2015, 01:34:53 AM
It would be cool if it was possible to repair crawlers after you've reprogrammed them, maybe with extra plasteel or something.
I will definitely look into it. For now priority is to fix lag issues with lots of bots and the possibility to keep them out of battles.
Maybe you could have some sort of standby mode where they stop in place. Or even a sort of standby "station" where you can call them to it and they have to remain close and stop moving. Could even incorporate a repair function to the station itself, get two birds stoned at once.
Quote from: Giraffe on February 10, 2015, 03:48:15 AM
Maybe you could have some sort of standby mode where they stop in place. Or even a sort of standby "station" where you can call them to it and they have to remain close and stop moving. Could even incorporate a repair function to the station itself, get two birds stoned at once.
My thoughts exactly. Next version they'll stop in place, repair station coming later.
Quote from: Orion on February 10, 2015, 02:51:04 AM
Quote from: Giraffe on February 10, 2015, 01:34:53 AM
It would be cool if it was possible to repair crawlers after you've reprogrammed them, maybe with extra plasteel or something.
I will definitely look into it. For now priority is to fix lag issues with lots of bots and the possibility to keep them out of battles.
some form of sleeper beacon that sets crawlers to a state similar to that of a MD2 droid's 'Deactivated' state, that'd solve some lag, and the home beacon issue, too. Right?
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/crawler3.png)
Quote from: Orion on February 10, 2015, 12:39:49 PM
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/crawler3.png)
You're a god.
Quote from: Giraffe on February 10, 2015, 01:03:51 PMYou're a god.
^ This
Tynan should hire you, you're awesome.
Awesome. Thx
So this command will keep them in home zone?
Where exactly?
It'll do nothing for now. That's the easy part sadly. Far as I'm aware there's nothing "easy" about anything pathfinding. Think all that crap is still hard coded. So it's ither learn c++ and find some way to override base pathfinding or learn to hack ;D That really sounds like a whoooole messy can of worms to me haha.
Here's to hoping I'm very very wrong :D cheers
Like the icon though bro looks good.
Quote from: 200Down on February 10, 2015, 11:43:37 PM
It'll do nothing for now.
Now, now. They already go and hunker down in a quiet little corner of your base, that is hopefully safe.
There will be repair bays where they preferably stand later.
There will also be a command center that takes direct control of them, so you can call them back all at once. In fact, I will further penalize not having the command center.
Balancing requires this. All hail balancing.
I can imagine it now-- the sad limp walk of a broken down crawler as it approaches the repair center Redfields is crying because she's a big baby, then-- ding! Otto is back and cuddly as ever.
Or maybe it ends in tragedy as Otto short circuits again right in front of the station and dies :'(
By the way, I dunno if you just used the games regular namegen for the crawler names but Otto is my favorite.
Hey Guys,
I've started a mod analysis series on youtube. My first episode is on More Mechanoids.
I'd love for you to have a look and let me know what you think as ill be doing many more.
Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-t-0FmAguY
Enjoy!
Quote from: Pumpus on February 11, 2015, 04:45:53 AM
Hey Guys,
I've started a mod analysis series on youtube. My first episode is on More Mechanoids.
I'd love for you to have a look and let me know what you think as ill be doing many more.
Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-t-0FmAguY
Enjoy!
The portion of the screen that the game is in is a bit too small, it makes the ingame text look wonky- otherwise very enjoyable, maybe it should be on the front page of the mod as like an intro.
Also there's a typo- Mechinoids should be Mechanoids
Also I think intro and outro slates are super lame.
Also I totally disagree on the ai chip thing, JoeysLucky22 and shinzy are probably the best on the forum so far at making ludeon-esque sprites and art.
You didn't make them hide under beds did ya? hahaha Would make sense as beds will always be in a home zone and preferably inside. That's funny as hell if you did.
Quote from: Pumpus on February 11, 2015, 04:45:53 AM
Hey Guys,
I've started a mod analysis series on youtube. My first episode is on More Mechanoids.
I'd love for you to have a look and let me know what you think as ill be doing many more.
Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-t-0FmAguY
Enjoy!
Got a good voice for youtube man and you talk like you actually have viewers watching instead of talking to yourself like you see so many other insanely boring lets play gamers do on there. Not all of them of course but quite a few zzzzzzzzzzz.
Don't give up on the youtube thing :)
you got one sub anyway
Small critique though. If your gonna do mod reviews it may be in your best interest if you don't have other mods installed. Reasoning is, I think that little issue with the "shutdown mech" on the mechs themselves, isn't even caused by this mod. It shows up on all mechs even without this mod installed. Pretty sure it's in the core xml's somewhere. Remnants of something Tynan was planning? who knows. Or it's simple caused by one of the medical mods you have installed because i use one of those to. I can't remember now where I saw it but ither way.
But nice vid and keep them coming
Quote from: 200Down on February 11, 2015, 08:14:50 AM
It shows up on all mechs even without this mod installed. Pretty sure it's in the core xml's somewhere.
You can shut down incapacitated mechs via the shut down operation, the only reason it doesn't work for converted crawlers is because units need to be incapped or in a bed to perform an 'operation'. It's been that way for a while. It has a use and is supposed to be there. It doesn't harm anything and is in my opinion utterly inconsequential. Time would be better spent adding the features Orion wants in the mod, nitpicky things like the med-op context menu for mechs can be ignored.
Thanks for the review, by the way! It's a nice detailed look at the various aspects of the mod, although it would have been nice to see them in action some more.
The next version actually comes with a few fixes and cleanups here and there. I've already removed the shutdown bill, and renaming bots is fixed as well, among other cool things.
yea, kinda what you get when reviewing mods and games that aren't finished though. He did at least state that it was still being worked on. Maybe followups after mods are finished?
And my apologies about the shutdown thing. I think I was thinking about the remove "brain" thingy(or whatever it is) that shows up from time to time and does literally nothing. Never bothered me enough to look into it though.
QuoteSmall critique though. If your gonna do mod reviews it may be in your best interest if you don't have other mods installed. Reasoning is, I think that little issue with the "shutdown mech" on the mechs themselves, isn't even caused by this mod.
Yea I've thought about that. The issue is that I make the vids outta games I am currently playing not just ones I set up to show case 1 mod. The reasoning is... I'd get super bored doing that every time haha. I try my best to make sure I'm not critiquing bugs of other mods and like Orion said he has removed it. In an ideal world I'd do it but this is what we've got at the moment, I'll get better as I go.
QuoteThe portion of the screen that the game is in is a bit too small, it makes the ingame text look wonky
I'll look into that thanks.
QuoteAlso I think intro and outro slates are super lame.
Ouch man. Haha. I'm just starting out, it might change in the future. Do you have a suggestion or example of what might be better. What exactly makes it lame in your opinion.
Thanks for the feed back boys and thanks Orion for putting my vid on the front page.
Do you have an ETA on an Alpha 9 version (probably a silly question)
p.s. Yea I'll be trying to keep up with the mod developments as they go so I can represent them the best. I'll probs do a "Mod Update Spot Light" when enough stuff is changed to warrant it. Thanks again boys.
Quote from: JoeysLucky22 on January 11, 2015, 11:43:53 AM
I'm Trying to wrap my head around XML and DLL modding. I know a bit of C# and unity so hopefully I can figure it out soon.
Here are a few I've made so far:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ao3mJJ0.png)
Are these in the mod yet?
Quote from: Pumpus on February 19, 2015, 07:43:31 AM
Do you have an ETA on an Alpha 9 version (probably a silly question)
I would say "soon", as I'm working hard on it. Obviously with A9 out, I can't work on what needed finishing for version v1.03 - which was almost ready. Updating all the Defs to A9 went pretty quick and painless, with the actual code it's a different story.The convertable mechanoids are very code intrusive and I'm overriding a lot of original stuff for them. For A9 I have to change how some of that works and for some things I have to figure out new solutions entirely.
Quote from: Timber on February 20, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
Are these in the mod yet?
Some are already in v1.02. Others will be in v1.03. The rest will come later.
Tried this again for Alpha 8 and I must say, it's really great!
i hate to say this but the having little beetle things crawl around my colony hauling things is just adorable.
i really want these little guys in A9.
Thanks for the positive comments guys! I'm really working hard on the next version, which of course will be for alpha 9.
+1 Alpha 9 request
The shutdown mech thing is vanilla, it was introduced before we had the new health system and they were next to indestructible, so if you managed to incap one you could save the time firing more bullets at it and just shut it down.
First off, the person who pointed me here... THANK YOU.
Second off, Is there the ability to make friendly mechanoids in this mod or are you planning to do that
Quote from: Zeta Omega on February 26, 2015, 01:00:46 PM
First off, the person who pointed me here... THANK YOU.
Second off, Is there the ability to make friendly mechanoids in this mod or are you planning to do that
The little mechs can be converted to automated haulers/cleaners/plantcutters. They work totally automatic,you have no control over them which is absolutely awesome, plus they look great!
They can clean? YES!!! Now all I need is for it to be alpha 9
please almighty onion i miss this mod :d
I miss crawlers, because no-one of my colonists have spare time to clean :(
This and Project Armory are the last things I'm waiting for an update :)
Okay you guys. I will cut some corners to get it released soon, and delay those extra things for v1.04. It'll still take me a couple more days, though.
Quote from: Orion on March 04, 2015, 05:22:24 AM
Okay you guys. I will cut some corners to get it released soon, and delay those extra things for v1.04. It'll still take me a couple more days, though.
although i am looking forward to some great new features im excited for the compatability update coming sooner. my rimworld experience almost feels incomplete with out the little buggers
So i am not sure if anyone else has had a problem but when I go to build a 're-purposed bot' an error occurs and the friendly crawler just sits there. More over if I click on or hover over the friendly crawler my hud disappears and reappears only when I deselect the crawler.
Otherwise the mod works wonderfully and I love the new enemies.
P.S. I can submit debug info if that would be helpful
Let me generalize that...
Quote from: Kilroy232 on March 07, 2015, 04:23:33 AM
[When I do perfectly normal stuff with this mod] an error occurs and [something does not work]. More over if I click on or hover over [the object in question] my hud disappears [...]
That's a clear sign for a conflict with another mod you're using. Unfortunately I don't have the time to check compatibility for every mod out there, or even the majority of them. I do try to make my mod as unintrusive as possible. So I'm afraid I have to leave the exercise to you to find the conflicting mod. If you can tell me which one it is, I will try and see if I can create a compatibility patch.
The fastest way to find such a mod is:
1. Create a copy of RimWorld, with only MoreMechanoids.
2. Set everything up until you are almost at the point where usually the problem would occur.
3. Save and quit the game.
4. Add one of your other mods, load the game.
5. Do the thing that caused the problem earlier. If it didn't break, repeat from 4. If it did break, you now know that this is the problematic mod.
You can also try adding multiple mods at once, then you'll know if the conflicting mod is part of a group of mods, and narrow it down from there. Of course it's absolutely possible that MoreMechanoids conflicts with more than one other mod at the same time.
Good luck!
Thanks, I think I can handle that much. I had never seen anything like that before but I am sure I can sort it out.
You can also, of course, just wait until version 1.03 for Alpha 9, and hope the problem is solved then already :)
I give it 1-3 days until it's ready.
Quote from: Orion on March 07, 2015, 02:26:26 PM
You can also, of course, just wait until version 1.03 for Alpha 9, and hope the problem is solved then already :)
I give it 1-3 days until it's ready.
I believe I will wait in that case, I love this mod.
Hey Orion, have you though of a Siege mechanoid by chance? I made a discussion post a long time ago and someone had this idea for a turtle like design that could move slowly or plant itself so it could fire like a mortar.
Quote from: Zeta Omega on March 07, 2015, 05:47:41 PM
Hey Orion, have you though of a Siege mechanoid by chance? I made a discussion post a long time ago and someone had this idea for a turtle like design that could move slowly or plant itself so it could fire like a mortar.
Actually I haven't thought about that one, thanks! Maybe because I don't quite like being sieged, but it could really add an interesting dynamic if mechanoids could do that. It's still a long way to go before I've implemented all the current designs (so I'm starting with the easier ones). I'll definitely keep this one in mind, though!
Mechanoid Crawler 1.03 preview - Alpha 9
404 not found BabyRage
Version 1.03 preview released!
As so many of you (and me as well) have anticipated, version 1.03 is finally here!
Joey has again excelled himself, making the graphics and I've slaved away at it for most of my free time for the last month. I do think the effort was worth it.
Because on my own I can only do so much testing, and only with a small selection of other mods, I decided to call this version "preview". I hope you will let me know about problems you encounter, and I'll make sure to fix them as fast as possible, so we can remove the "preview" tag!
I tried again to make it as balanced as possible and keep it fun. Not everyone will agree with all the choices I've made, so if there's something that really bothers you, feel free to tweak it for your copy of the mod. If you have questions how to do that, you can always PM me or ask it here.
I hope you all enjoy the new version as much as I do!
Also: If you want to make my day, please post screenshots or videos of your experiences with the mod. I'd really love that. Thanks!
Quote from: LordAssault on March 08, 2015, 07:59:44 AM
Mechanoid Crawler 1.03 preview - Alpha 9
404 not found BabyRage
My bad! Fixed...
Finally! My plasteel farm is now complete! thank you. Love it!
Waited so long! It's the best additional enemy mod now IMO (though not tested skullywag yet)
At least graphics are beautiful and my mod selection is primarily based on graphic so yess
EDIT: Just one request, but will you make your assembly's strings to translatable keyed string? Like coming 1.04? I really want to translate this... properly.
Quote from: Latta on March 08, 2015, 08:13:27 AM
Just one request, but will you make your assembly's strings to translatable keyed string? Like coming 1.04? I really want to translate this... properly.
Sure, I can look into it for the next version. I didn't think there'd be much demand for it!
Quote from: Orion on March 08, 2015, 08:00:46 AM
Version 1.03 preview released!
As so many of you (and me as well) have anticipated, version 1.03 is finally here!
Joey has again excelled himself, making the graphics and I've slaved away at it for most of my free time for the last month. I do think the effort was worth it.
Because on my own I can only do so much testing, and only with a small selection of other mods, I decided to call this version "preview". I hope you will let me know about problems you encounter, and I'll make sure to fix them as fast as possible, so we can remove the "preview" tag!
I tried again to make it as balanced as possible and keep it fun. Not everyone will agree with all the choices I've made, so if there's something that really bothers you, feel free to tweak it for your copy of the mod. If you have questions how to do that, you can always PM me or ask it here.
I hope you all enjoy the new version as much as I do!
Also: If you want to make my day, please post screenshots or videos of your experiences with the mod. I'd really love that. Thanks!
I can't tell you how pumped I am to add this to my mod list post and my game! Amazing work mate.
Wow, awesome! That mammoth texture is incredible, can't wait to see it in action! But could you add the possibility to repair mechanoids? Two of my crawlers have lost two legs and are now unable to walk, that bothers me a little. But great mod!
Quote from: Ykara on March 08, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
Wow, awesome! That mammoth texture is incredible, can't wait to see it in action! But could you add the possibility to repair mechanoids? Two of my crawlers have lost two legs and are now unable to walk, that bothers me a little. But great mod!
I'll have to look into how hard it is to just fix missing / broken body parts, instead of going through the whole prothetics / healing process that normally applies. It's definitely on the list for v1.04, although I can't promise that very soon, since I have all kind of projects still on my todo list, next to RimWorld modding.
For now it's easiest to just build a new crawler and trash the old one.
Just as a heads up I'm getting some errors running the Alpha 9 version
These are from a new game with a fresh world - with the usual Rimworld reset between activating the mod and playing
I do have a fair few other mods running so it may be a compatability issue
[attachment deleted due to age]
the dream is real
Quote from: Lightbulb500 on March 08, 2015, 11:36:44 AM
Just as a heads up I'm getting some errors running the Alpha 9 version
Ah, I think I know how it's happening. It's on the list now.
Quote from: Orion on March 09, 2015, 09:33:43 AM
Ah, I think I know how it's happening. It's on the list now.
Great! Thanks for the quick response :D
Released Version 1.03a Preview
- Fix for no cover bug
- Minor description fixes
- Added Korean translation (thanks to Latta (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=35458))
- Added keyed strings and English translation template
I tried 1.0.3a on an an existing colony and on new colony (but existing world) and got a mess of errors in both cases. Tried it on a new world, new colony, and saw no errors. Before I go rooting around to see what the issue might be and, if needed, a proper bug report for you, I wanted to see if new worlds are a known requirement...
The new version has solved the no cover errors perfectly but I now have another issue :(
When reprogramming a crawler, the reprogrammer gets stuck in a loop producing an infinite number of crawlers one after the other from the same original wreck and AI chip.
Drafting them doesn't solve the problem either - it just resumes the instant they undraft
Hm. Those are both curious problems that I didn't encounter before over here. So I'm very interested in the error messages you're getting.
A new world is not a requirement, unless you have a mod that messes with the Mechanoid faction. Then you shouldn't use that other mod and create a new world.
Reloaded a save before the bug occurred and repeated.
Here are the error messages.
Hope it helps!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Here are the errors I saw with an existing world, new colony. If I save that colony, quit, and reload it, RimWorld has a total meltdown. I believe I saw roughly the same from adding More Mechs into an existing colony. Sorry this is a little weak, if you don't see what you need here, let me know and I'll try to put together something a little more useful.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Lightbulb500 on March 11, 2015, 01:50:32 PM
Reloaded a save before the bug occurred and repeated.
Here are the error messages.
Thanks for the logs, Lightbulb. Could you tell me which version of RimWorld you are using? If it's not 727, I can guarantee you there will be problems.
The error is caused by an object called "Outfitter", probably trying to stick clothes onto the mechanoids, since they're technically "colonists". It's not part of the core game but I also couldn't find a mod that introduces it. So this exercise is left to the reader. Identify the offending mod, disable it, restart, see if there are more bugs.
Please also let me know which mod is causing it, so I can see if there's something I can do.
Quote from: Famous Shoes on March 11, 2015, 08:20:51 PM
Here are the errors I saw with an existing world, new colony. If I save that colony, quit, and reload it, RimWorld has a total meltdown. I believe I saw roughly the same from adding More Mechs into an existing colony.
Famous Shoes, your case is a bit harder. Which version of RimWorld do you use? I need to know which mods you are using and in which order they load. If you turn on developer mode, and give me a screenshot of the top logs after starting a map it'll include a list of mods in order of loading.
If you get errors when creating / loading the map and save it, the save is most likely corrupted, so it's not surprising you get errors then.
I also was having similar issues, and thelog entries were relating to the squadbrain, and when I removed the mod I was able to play with only ram leaks issues.
hope this helps
Quote from: Orion on March 12, 2015, 04:29:09 AM
The error is caused by an object called "Outfitter", probably trying to stick clothes onto the mechanoids, since they're technically "colonists". It's not part of the core game but I also couldn't find a mod that introduces it. So this exercise is left to the reader. Identify the offending mod, disable it, restart, see if there are more bugs.
Please also let me know which mod is causing it, so I can see if there's something I can do.
I think he's using this mod:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10908.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10908.0)
I am yeah, will try again without that mod active when I get home
Update: Disabling Outfitter fixed the issue :)
Quote from: SlimeCrusher on March 12, 2015, 05:59:43 AM
I think he's using this mod:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10908.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10908.0)
Ah, thanks! I've fixed Lightbulb's problem now. So the mods will be compatible with the next version (1.03b).
That's great to hear :D
I have also run into Famous Shoes' error as well unfortunately, though I think I may have the source.
I believe it is something to do with the new mechanoids that spawn in some of the cryptosleep shrines as it was when I encountered one of these that the error appeared. I had previously been raided by a group of crawlers without any errors showing up.
Quote from: Lightbulb500 on March 12, 2015, 07:34:55 PM
I have also run into Famous Shoes' error as well unfortunately, though I think I may have the source.
I believe it is something to do with the new mechanoids that spawn in some of the cryptosleep shrines [..]
Oh, interesting! That could be, yes... thanks for the lead! I'll look into it...
Released Version 1.03b Preview
- Fixed compatibility with outfitter
- Fixed issue with core game spawning mechanoids when creating new map
- Fixed spawning mechanoids from dev menu
Quote from: Orion on March 13, 2015, 07:23:38 AM
- Fixed issue with core game spawning mechanoids when creating new map
Yes! It was a bit of annoyance.
For anyone who cares, I've released a little side project, the Hospitality Mod (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11444.0). It allows you to recruit people from passing by friendly factions.
Orion, a bug report.
It seems that one or more(maybe all of them) PAL components are throwing error when loading a save file with PAL: "Object reference not set to an instance of an object", at Verse.MapDrawer.MapMeshDrawerUpdate .
Because it's "drawer update," I suspect it has something to do with those animated graphics, but not quite sure.
There was no issue when playing with it, only after loading a game with PAL in it. Also, after I got rid of all PALs in my save file manually, it disappeared.
Hm. Interesting.
I can load those save files just fine, so I guess it's a mod conflict, as usual.
In your rim world data folder there should be a log file.
Could you try load your save file, then quit the game and then send me a copy of that file? It probably has a clue to what is causing the issue.
We both has EdBs, Fusebox, Skill Lock and Misc. But I doubt its one of EdBs because I tried to turn those off already.
I suspect Skill Lock... No, not at all.
EDIT: New colony works fine, at least with stuffs made by god mode enabled. I'll just use PAL after I finish my current one.
EDIT EDIT: Now it refuses to load again, even in a colony of only a few days passed. I'll have to abandon whole PAL until future update than...
Great mod, but after trying to preprogram a few bots, I got a few questions.
1: How do I connect my mechanoid to PAL? I've built one, with all the parts, but I can't connect my crawler to it....
2: How do I rename my mechanoids? I want to name my crawler something special, since she was the first mechanoid ever to attack me or get re-programmed, but I can't figure out how.
3: Is there a way to use mechanoids for hunting/draft them as soldiers? It seems somewhat odd that they can't fight at all when your reprogram them when they are essentially robotic soldiers.
4: Could we reprogram centipedes? I found it kind of off-putting that out of all the mechanoids, the one that is the hardest to kill and most dangerous is essentially the most useless one.
Edit: So I checked the PAL again, and it said 'Lv. 0 needs 2x Pal sensor to level up' or something like that, so I made another pal sensor, and it still says that. Help?
Edit2: Ok, turned the game off, then on, and now my PAL is fully functional, and my crawler is properly linked up.
Released Version 1.03c Preview- Attempt at fixing various problems with savegames
Quote from: AllenWL on March 16, 2015, 04:58:42 AM
3: Is there a way to use mechanoids for hunting/draft them as soldiers? It seems somewhat odd that they can't fight at all when your reprogram them when they are essentially robotic soldiers.
There is no way to do it right now. I was contemplating it, but I believe it is too powerful. If you need a story why it's not possible, then it's because your colonists just spent the last hour fighting them off, suffering heavy losses, so when turning them back on they disable all use of weapons, just to be sure.
Quote from: AllenWL on March 16, 2015, 04:58:42 AM
4: Could we reprogram centipedes? I found it kind of off-putting that out of all the mechanoids, the one that is the hardest to kill and most dangerous is essentially the most useless one.
I've been trying to think about an actual use for them. Since they're really slow, and I don't want to let them fight, I don't really know what there is that they could usefully do. Maybe grow plants.
Quote from: Orion on March 16, 2015, 05:16:49 PM
There is no way to do it right now. I was contemplating it, but I believe it is too powerful. If you need a story why it's not possible, then it's because your colonists just spent the last hour fighting them off, suffering heavy losses, so when turning them back on they disable all use of weapons, just to be sure.
Oh. I suppose that makes sense. If I beat a mechanoid, I suppose I would shut down it's weapons too. Especially the centipede. It took four guys with PDWs firing away non-stop for quite the time to kill it. Thankfully, it was a bit dumb. Well, either that, or my guys blew out it's sight sensors. But I suppose every dead mechanoid turning into a live(and deadly) soldier is a bit overpowered.
Quote from: Orion on March 16, 2015, 05:16:49 PM
I've been trying to think about an actual use for them. Since they're really slow, and I don't want to let them fight, I don't really know what there is that they could usefully do. Maybe grow plants.
Maybe it can deconstruct/construct buildings? Haul multiple items? Build? Act like a mobile wall? Be a heavily armored wheelchair for my colonists?
Um, one more question, but is there a easy way to find mechanoids I own? My crawler hauler is a lovely little fellow, but so hard to find. Since hunters tend to leave dead animals lying around and with drop pods and such, she's nearly always out getting things from all over, and is so hard to find when I want someone to haul those potatoes in to the fridge, and all my colonists are sleeping.
And this is just a thought, but wouldn't it be nice if you could assign a mechanoid to a colonist? The mechanoid could follow the colonist around and assist them with things, like bringing them resources to craft/build with, taking what they hunted/mined to the stockpiles, cutting down trees and plants that are in the way of their building, etc.
Just got the idea when I saw my colonists spend nearly a half of their waking hours not doing what I tell them to do, but preparing to do what I told them to do.
Quote from: AllenWL on March 17, 2015, 03:08:55 AM
Maybe it can deconstruct/construct buildings? Haul multiple items? Build? Act like a mobile wall? Be a heavily armored wheelchair for my colonists?
Not to sound negative here, but I've been thinking about that too. Construction / deconstruction heavily relies on hauling material around, so speed is actually quite important. On the other hand, hauling multiple items requires heavy changes to how hauling actually works. For a mobile wall I find them a bit too ugly. I hadn't thought about the wheelchair, but it'd be a very, very slow wheelchair. Also I wouldn't even know where to start, for creating drivable pawns.
So I am considering growing plants, because it means they can stick around the same area, it doesn't matter if they don't move very fast, and they spend their time outside, where they don't look weird because they have to go through doors. Downside: half the year you have this ugly slug sitting in the corner of your base...
Quote from: AllenWL on March 17, 2015, 03:08:55 AM
Um, one more question, but is there a easy way to find mechanoids I own? My crawler hauler is a lovely little fellow, but so hard to find. Since hunters tend to leave dead animals lying around and with drop pods and such, she's nearly always out getting things from all over, and is so hard to find when I want someone to haul those potatoes in to the fridge, and all my colonists are sleeping.
What I usually do is zoom out on the map and look for the name, or something speeding around.
Quote from: AllenWL on March 17, 2015, 03:08:55 AM
And this is just a thought, but wouldn't it be nice if you could assign a mechanoid to a colonist? The mechanoid could follow the colonist around and assist them with things [..]
This also would require an insane amount of tampering with how the game AI works. Mechanoids would have to predict what colonists are about to do, or colonists would have to tell them upfront. Easier would be if construction sites would generate hauling / cutting jobs, so colonists / mechanoids assigned to do those would just do them. But this is pretty much out of my control. It's a nice idea, but impractical in reality, in my opinion.
Quote from: Canute on March 17, 2015, 06:04:55 AM
I vote Centipede as Mining wurm instead the scyther.
Or maybe a mobile butcher cook factory. He consume corpse and produce meals out of the meat. He strips human corpses ofcourse.
Yeah i want a better way too, to cycle through your own mech's.
Do you know the Tactical computer from the Misc/MAI mod ?
You can cycle throuh your colonist,prisoner,enemy,friendly but not through your own mechs. :-(
Maybe you can do a similar function at the PAL ?
Mining is a cool idea, actually. I like that one too!
I haven't tried the tactical computer, guess I should take a look.
That would make sense, I mean, the centipede looks like a giant battering ram. It should certainly be good at digging(or more like smashing down mountain walls :P) Though, it should probably have a pretty good mining level to make up for the slow movement speed.
Hey, what about removing the mining and plant cutting ability from scythers, and giving it to the centipede instead? The scyther could get jobs like planting or construction or something.
Think about it, a centipede is a lumbering, heavy (armless)mechanoid. It shouldn't be able to do precise stuff, but it'll be great at 'dumb labor' digging, cutting down plants, etc. On the other hand a scyther will have a easier time doing things that need finer control, like harvesting crops, building things, etc.
I agree on the centipede.
With the scypher I was going with the image that it's essentially made of claws and guns, so most precise jobs don't make sense either. I tried hunting, which looks funny, but violates the idea that their weapons are disabled.
Quote from: Orion on March 18, 2015, 04:56:10 AM
I agree on the centipede.
With the scypher I was going with the image that it's essentially made of claws and guns, so most precise jobs don't make sense either. I tried hunting, which looks funny, but violates the idea that their weapons are disabled.
Just how de-weaponed can you make a scyther? They're covered in blades and made of metal O.o
There's no version of a Scyther that would be ineffective at hunting unless you removed 100% of its capacity for movement/articulation.
The same goes for a centipede really, it probably weighs upwards of 5T -it's the size of a car and presumably denser-, weaponless or not it'd crush you like a bug if it ever went rogue :P
And it'd be capable of killing just about anything in the animal kingdom except for maybe an elephant :P
Or a bulldog ant because frankly those things just aren't squishable :D
Hey, I have been having issues with the mod due to some serious conflicts between this and edb interface. At least I am pretty sure that is the mod that it is conflicting with. Please try and fix it! I really want to subjugate all the crawlers!!! D:
I'm using EDB Interface too, can't reproduce any problems here...
Quote from: Boboid on March 18, 2015, 05:22:04 AM
Just how de-weaponed can you make a scyther? They're covered in blades and made of metal O.o
There's no version of a Scyther that would be ineffective at hunting unless you removed 100% of its capacity for movement/articulation.
The same goes for a centipede really, it probably weighs upwards of 5T -it's the size of a car and presumably denser-, weaponless or not it'd crush you like a bug if it ever went rogue :P
And it'd be capable of killing just about anything in the animal kingdom except for maybe an elephant :P
Or a bulldog ant because frankly those things just aren't squishable :D
Semantics...
They just take out the part of the AI that's for fighting and replace it with something like... cleaning the floor :P
Quite odd. I was almost certain it was edb interface. I noticed that some of my guys pawn models started disappearing and turning into purple squares. If I copy and past the errors will you fix it if you can? Also how do I copy and paste the errors. Lol. I tried earlier and the interface wouldnt let me for some reason.
Quote from: Orion on March 18, 2015, 04:56:10 AM
I agree on the centipede.
With the scypher I was going with the image that it's essentially made of claws and guns, so most precise jobs don't make sense either. I tried hunting, which looks funny, but violates the idea that their weapons are disabled.
Which is why they won't be cooking and doctoring :P
Growing won't need
that precise a skill, just enough to harvest(which, with the crops we have, will simply be cutting or digging out the crops, simple enough) and plant(get a seed, shove it in dirt-not exactly brain surgery)
Constructing won't need much skill either, just get the resources, pile it up, hammer in a few nails/slather mortar over it, perhaps do some wielding(I think a modified plasma gun can do that), and perhaps some cutting/folding metal(which would be simple enough. They aren't making refined circuitry after all.)
Quote from: T-Wrecks on March 18, 2015, 09:35:47 PM
Quite odd. I was almost certain it was edb interface. I noticed that some of my guys pawn models started disappearing and turning into purple squares. If I copy and past the errors will you fix it if you can? Also how do I copy and paste the errors. Lol. I tried earlier and the interface wouldnt let me for some reason.
I'll try my best, is all I can promise.
There are two things that help:
1. Click each error, so the whole message is showing. Then press the print screen key on your keyboard. F12? Or somewhere around there... Haven't looked at the key I'm pressing for a while. Then paste it in Paint and crop it to what is relevant.
2. In the game's data folder is a log text file. This one is particularly useful if you get a black screen or can't get to the message. Just attach the file to your post after the error occurred (close the game first).
I digged into your code and deleted every animation related method, re-compiled, replaced dll and bang! Failed.
So I built every single PAL buildings one by one and found out that I was wrong from the very start. It was a PAL core causing it, and not some animation related problem. I'll look again.
EDIT: Well okay, I... fixed this problem by deleting whole ScribeCollections.LookList()... I think there is something very wrong with saving list.
I'll attach modified dll for ones like me.
WARNING: There is a downside: Controlled mechanoids will change every time you load your game. Example: You have Steely and Wingy but you can only control one mechanoid, currently Steely. Next time you load this game, the controlled mechanoid can be both Wingy or Steely.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Ok, I think we really need a way to repair broken mechanoids somehow.
My crawler short-circuited, and her legs got burned off. She's quite slow now, and while I can kill her and re-chip her to fix her up, that's just so... wasteful. Not to mention I have no resources to do it anyways.
considering the fact that bashing her brains in then results in that same mech being rechipped, isnt that the same as repairing it :\ like, its abstracted, and annoying that we need to bash the robot instead of using the shut down operation that other mechanoids have, but its still the same thing
You do need a new chip then - but otherwise you'd need spare parts or something, so I guess it comes down to roughly the same. I'll think about it, though.
Quote from: Latta on March 21, 2015, 04:35:05 AM
I... fixed this problem by deleting whole ScribeCollections.LookList()... I think there is something very wrong with saving list.
I'll attach modified dll for ones like me.
Sorry you had to put so much effort into it, but also thanks for locating the problem!
I made an attempt to handle it gracefully. I'd like you to try it out and see if you still have the problem.
Released Version 1.03d- Better failing for loading reference list
I don't see any problem at chip part. But bashing it to turn off has a minor problem. One of my crawler had lost its plasma cutter thus no manipulation. My soldier bashed it and it started to attack back! Wasn't a big deal but the soldier was scratched by that crawler's front leg.
I couldn't check if PAL is fixed or not because my colony suffered greatly by Mechanoid Rebellion. Two men killed while sleeping and one died fighting. I'm now afraid of using scythers. It was a memorable event, at least...
EDIT: I'm sorry to say this but its not fixed yet. It's not null causing the error; list is there. But the game, it can't instantiate or something from the given list. Would it possible to make bool isControlled at individual mechanoids and save value to there, instead of a list? As I can't live without this mod I'll continue with deleted LookList now.
I noticed a bunch of textures in the mod that doesn't seem to be used. What are those for?
Oh, and just met some flamebots. I must say, I panicked for a bit when they shot their flame. That was epic. But then my colonists took them out pretty quick. Still, if there where more of them, I could have been in trouble.
Quote from: AllenWL on March 23, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
I noticed a bunch of textures in the mod that doesn't seem to be used. What are those for?
When I find the time, they will be added to the game.
Quote from: AllenWL on March 23, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
Oh, and just met some flamebots. I must say, I panicked for a bit when they shot their flame. That was epic. But then my colonists took them out pretty quick. Still, if there where more of them, I could have been in trouble.
Yeah, they can be quite nasty if they get in reach of your base.
Quote from: Latta on March 22, 2015, 09:00:29 PM
EDIT: I'm sorry to say this but its not fixed yet. It's not null causing the error; list is there. But the game, it can't instantiate or something from the given list. Would it possible to make bool isControlled at individual mechanoids and save value to there, instead of a list? As I can't live without this mod I'll continue with deleted LookList now.
I really wonder what's going on. Could you send me screenshots of the errors you're getting and the log file, please? I don't have enough information to fix it, so I can only guess, which isn't leading anywhere.
Surely.
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy260/urty5656/screenshot27.png)
I've also attached output_log. This part is the start:
ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.String]].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.LoadIDsWantedBank.GetNextList () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.LoadCrossRefHandler.NextResolvedRefList[PawnConverted] () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.Scribe_Collections.LookList[PawnConverted] (System.Collections.Generic.List`1& list, System.String listLabel, LookMode lookMode, System.Object[] ctorArgs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at MoreMechanoids.Building_PAL_Core.ExposeData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.LoadCrossRefHandler.ResolveAllCrossReferences () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.MapIniter_LoadFromFile.InitMapFromFile (System.String mapFileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.RootMap.Start () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
Argument out of range? Why I couldn't see this.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Latta on March 23, 2015, 07:39:54 AM
Argument out of range? Why I couldn't see this.
That's the missing piece! I think I can fix it with this.
I've uploaded version 1.03e. Could you try to see if it fixes the savegame problem? If not, I'll need the new errors and logfile...
Ugh, its the same error again. :'( Here's the new log though I don't see any difference. It's a fresh new colony made to test only, with 1 nuclear power plant(from Industrialization), some PAL links, a core, storage, cooler and a sensor, without controlled mechanoids.
Oh and... link to the download still says 1.03d and I don't see any changes within source files. Can you check it?
[attachment deleted due to age]
I had the same problem as Latta, thankfully she posted the dll. Saved my colony. :)
I'm tech savy-ish...but not really so the file helped! I pointed this fix out to a friend who uses a similar mode setup as me and had the same problem. (He was way more pissed haha). Worked for him too! We also both can't live w/o this mod so playing it with a minor inconvenience is better than not at all.
*We both had the same log, but it quite a bit different than Latta's.*
Um, one of my crawlers, that was connected to PAL, randomly went into a psychotic rage, stabbed my colonist in the knee, then recovered and went back to it's job.
The heck?
Quote from: Latta on March 24, 2015, 12:48:21 AM
Ugh, its the same error again. :'( Here's the new log though I don't see any difference. It's a fresh new colony made to test only, with 1 nuclear power plant(from Industrialization), some PAL links, a core, storage, cooler and a sensor, without controlled mechanoids.
Oh and... link to the download still says 1.03d and I don't see any changes within source files. Can you check it?
It's the correct file, I just failed to rename the link. You can always tell if you go to the mod menu and look at the version number of the mod there.
You use so many different mods, the chance of a conflict is very high. Could I take a look at your savegame?
You can find it here:
%appdata%\..\LocalLow\Ludeon Studios\RimWorld\Saves
or here:
%appdata%\LocalLow\Ludeon Studios\RimWorld\Saves
Quote from: samjac0 on March 24, 2015, 01:22:42 AM
I had the same problem as Latta, thankfully she posted the dll. Saved my colony. :)
It's great that we have a temporary solution! I'm trying very hard to find a fix, though. But until I can reproduce the problem, I'm firing in the dark.
Quote from: AllenWL on March 24, 2015, 03:25:23 AM
Um, one of my crawlers, that was connected to PAL, randomly went into a psychotic rage, stabbed my colonist in the knee, then recovered and went back to it's job. The heck?
You're using your worst enemy as slaves... To be expected? Without PAL it wouldn't have recovered, though ;)
Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/szmtknxqgevydri/Saves.zip?dl=0). "Dawn" is my mod intensive colony while Colony1 is a fresh new one dedicated for testing with compacted mod lists. (World not included)
This (http://pastebin.com/MCF842mW) is Colony1's mod list and order.
I found one more: while Colony1 doesn't throw any errors and you can see there is a list under PAL_Core, it seems that the core's code is not loading list of controlledMechanoids at all. Detailed description below!
Set-up: Instant finished all researches. Dev-spawned buildings that are a geothermal power generator, some links, a core, two sensors, two memories, two coolers and a power unit(=two controllable slot). Dev-spawned converted which are two crawlers, a skullywag and a scyther. Saved after confirming PAL is controlling two crawlers both in game and in XML, and loaded a few times.
Expected: Even after loading, crawlers should be those being controlled, proving that PAL core is loading its list.
Actual: After loading, all mechanoids disconnected and reconnected, causing a change in controlled mechanoids, and suggesting that error is gone because PAL core is not loading its list.
With which version of the mod was Dawn saved?
This is what your PAL looks like:
<thing Class="MoreMechanoids.Building_PAL_Core">
<def>PAL_Core</def>
<id>PAL_Core1699269</id>
<pos>(216, 0, 249)</pos>
<health>150</health>
<faction>정착지983346309</faction>
<parentThing>null</parentThing>
<powerOn>True</powerOn>
<desirePowerOn>True</desirePowerOn>
<glowOn>True</glowOn>
<nextAnimationFrame>16</nextAnimationFrame>
<innerHeat>95.0479</innerHeat>
<ticksUntilNextUpdate>19</ticksUntilNextUpdate>
<ticksUntilNextConnectedCheck>285</ticksUntilNextConnectedCheck>
<level>5</level>
<talker>
<lastTalkTime>9793074</lastTalkTime>
</talker>
</thing>
This is how it -should- look like:
<thing Class="MoreMechanoids.Building_PAL_Core">
<def>PAL_Core</def>
<id>PAL_Core1699269</id>
<pos>(216, 0, 249)</pos>
<health>150</health>
<faction>정착지983346309</faction>
<parentThing>null</parentThing>
<powerOn>True</powerOn>
<desirePowerOn>True</desirePowerOn>
<glowOn>True</glowOn>
<nextAnimationFrame>16</nextAnimationFrame>
<innerHeat>95.0479</innerHeat>
<controlledMechanoids/>
<ticksUntilNextUpdate>19</ticksUntilNextUpdate>
<ticksUntilNextConnectedCheck>285</ticksUntilNextConnectedCheck>
<level>5</level>
<talker>
<lastTalkTime>9793074</lastTalkTime>
</talker>
</thing>
Quote from: Latta on March 24, 2015, 08:06:22 AM
Expected: Even after loading, crawlers should be those being controlled, proving that PAL core is loading its list.
Actual: After loading, all mechanoids disconnected and reconnected, causing a change in controlled mechanoids, and suggesting that error is gone because PAL core is not loading its list.
Did you use the dll from 1.03e or the one you changed?
Did you take a look at Dawn? Yes, I both used 1.03e but Dawn was saved using my custom dll(from 1.03e) thus no <controlled... /> . When I reverted re-installed to not-modified 1.03e it started to threw error right after your Log.Warning said "List is null old save?" and creating a new list so I couldn't save it.
For that detailed bug part, you should look at Colony1. Colony1 is using not-modified dll from the start.
EDIT: I can now confirm that this(I mean like Colony1) also happens with only More Mechanoids enabled in fresh world's fresh colony. List is not loading properly.
EDIT EDIT: Now I wonder if I'm just bothering you too much with this :-\ Almost whole page is with me and you talking about this.
Quote from: Latta on March 24, 2015, 09:03:03 AM
EDIT: I can now confirm that this(I mean like Colony1) also happens with only More Mechanoids enabled in fresh world's fresh colony. List is not loading properly.
EDIT EDIT: Now I wonder if I'm just bothering you too much with this :-\ Almost whole page is with me and you talking about this.
I'm creating a new dll for testing right now, but I can't check it at the moment.
What I find strange is that you're having this problem even with a fresh colony and no other mods. I can't get it to happen at all, here. Obviously other people are having the problem too, so I really want it fixed.
The easiest fix would be to just not save the list, of course, but I'm not happy with that.
Is there any possibility that the problem comes from RimWorld's LookList with MapReference? Like both of it can't coexist in... some... system? And, yes, I agree with not saving the list is not a pretty solution.
Quote from: Latta on March 24, 2015, 09:38:16 AM
Is there any possibility that the problem comes from RimWorld's LookList with MapReference? Like both of it can't coexist in... some... system? And, yes, I agree with not saving the list is not a pretty solution.
That would surprise me, since it works fine here and also for most other people.
Quote from: Latta on March 24, 2015, 09:03:03 AM
EDIT: I can now confirm that this(I mean like Colony1) also happens with only More Mechanoids enabled in fresh world's fresh colony. List is not loading properly.
Here's a dll just for you. Please see if it helps and please attach your logfile.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Orion on March 24, 2015, 10:44:25 AM
Here's a dll just for you. Please see if it helps and please attach your logfile.
In short: The last of the list is not handled.
In long: Here I quickly made PAL network with three crawlers, two skullies and two scythers. three crawlers were being controlled at first, you can see it in log.
PAL_Core: LoadingVars
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
<controlledMechanoids><li>Mechanoid_Crawler_Converted12367</li><li>Mechanoid_Crawler_Converted12370</li><li>Mechanoid_Crawler_Converted12373</li></controlledMechanoids>
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
handling controlledMechanoids...Then I saw it is not being handled. To make it logged, I saved and loaded again without touching anything:
PAL_Core: LoadingVars
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
<controlledMechanoids><li>Mechanoid_Crawler_Converted12367</li><li>Mechanoid_Crawler_Converted12370</li><li>Mechanoid_Skullywag_Converted12386</li></controlledMechanoids>
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
handling controlledMechanoids...You can see that there is now Skully12386 instead of Crawler12386.
After all this, I loaded it again and there was Skully12388 instead of Skully12386. And again, there was something else at the last of the list. First two are fine so far. This part is not on the log nor save, but I can see that only the last part is not being handled now. This colony is using only Core mod, EdBs and this.
Also, that strange instantiate error is happening with my mod list but I'll think it as a conflict. Maybe I can try to narrow to what mod is causing it when I have more time.
EDIT: I accidentally deleted Dawn's world file so can't get result from running colony anymore. Guuh.......
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Orion on March 24, 2015, 04:15:54 AM
Quote from: AllenWL on March 24, 2015, 03:25:23 AM
Um, one of my crawlers, that was connected to PAL, randomly went into a psychotic rage, stabbed my colonist in the knee, then recovered and went back to it's job. The heck?
You're using your worst enemy as slaves... To be expected? Without PAL it wouldn't have recovered, though ;)
Oh, well, I guess I won't be adding new mechanoids before I upgrade my PAL then I guess. But wow PAL eats up a lot of energy....
Quote from: AllenWL on March 25, 2015, 12:00:50 AM
Oh, well, I guess I won't be adding new mechanoids before I upgrade my PAL then I guess. But wow PAL eats up a lot of energy....
It doesn't happen very often that they go crazy, but there is a chance. Having mechanoids work for you is very powerful. So there had to be big downsides. I wanted to keep it fun and in the spirit of the game. So having to supply increasing amounts of energy for your mechanoids seemed like a good idea.
And the challenge is, of course, to keep it going at all times. If PAL turns off during a siege and mechanoids go wandering about, that can quickly become quite expensive.
I used 1.03b and it worked, upgraded to 1.03e and loaded save games locked up. Shame. I really liked robotic helpers to haul and clean.
Plus PAL is kinda pretty. Do PAL blocks count as walls blocking temperature? Do higher quality AI boards affect short circuit/berserk chance?
Would love it if there was a way to repair mechanoids when they get damaged.
Quote from: veryinky on March 25, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
I used 1.03b and it worked, upgraded to 1.03e and loaded save games locked up. Shame. I really liked robotic helpers to haul and clean.
Maybe try 1.03d instead. My attempts at making Latta's savegames work could have messed up things here or there.
Quote from: veryinky on March 25, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
Plus PAL is kinda pretty. Do PAL blocks count as walls blocking temperature? Do higher quality AI boards affect short circuit/berserk chance?
I'm sure Joey likes to hear that! The blocks do block temperature somewhat, but not entirely.
I want the quality to affect the chance, but so far I couldn't find out a good method. The event is controlled by the core game. If I replace that, it increases the chance a lot that it will clash with other mods.
Quote from: veryinky on March 25, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
Would love it if there was a way to repair mechanoids when they get damaged.
I never thought it was a big deal. I'll see what I can do, though.
Quote from: Orion link=topic=9221.msg118297#msg118297 I never thought it was a big deal. I'll see what I can do, though.
/quote]
It's my main complaint with the mod. Crawlers short circuit themselves, burn out their limbs and have to be bashed to death to be re-chipped. Seems wasteful (and requires my personal attention) to do just to fix their arm.
I'll test 1.03d and see if it works.
Quote from: Orion on March 25, 2015, 09:30:44 AM
Quote from: veryinky on March 25, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
Would love it if there was a way to repair mechanoids when they get damaged.
I never thought it was a big deal. I'll see what I can do, though.
Well, it gets pretty annoying when you're mechanoid short-circuits and burns off a crucial part like a scyther's arm or a crawler's legs, rendering it useless, but when you try to shut it down, well, let's just say there are easier things to do. Plus a AI chip isn't really cheap, and neither is the cost of chipping and activating a dead mechanoid.
And if we ever get to reprogram centipedes, and then end up having to take that monster down because of a crucial bit burning off or something... *
shudders*
On another note, I think it would be really fun if we could use dead flamebots and make flamethrowers or powerful firebombs or a flamethrower turret or something.
Technically, you're not leading into a fight, you're stripping it of it's guts, then turning it into a weapon for your colonists to use.
Kinda like ripping the spine out a guy and using it as a whip, but a with a lot less gore and disturbingness.
1.03d works for me.
1.3e (sorry i meant 1.3e not 1.3d) Is indeed working well with saving now, got lots of mods loaded so its quite compatible ;D
just a small laggy moment after I load a save with 5 mechs controlled, after loading only 3 of 5 were connected to pal and it froze the game every second for like 5-8 seconds and then PAL detects the other two and the game runs smooth again.
I checked the log but theres no error showing up.
Thanks for making this awesome mod ;D
Spoke too soon, built up PAL to support 7 mechanoids and now the game won't load. 1.03d.
Game ran fine without PAL and 12 mechanoids (crawlers set to hauling or cleaning, I only really want roombas anyways)
Quote from: veryinky on March 27, 2015, 04:34:45 AM
Spoke too soon, built up PAL to support 7 mechanoids and now the game won't load. 1.03d.
Game ran fine without PAL and 12 mechanoids (crawlers set to hauling or cleaning, I only really want roombas anyways)
Did you tried to change mod order? It...MIGHT work. For me, I lost my save anyway so I re-organized whole mod order and it seems okay except controlled mechanoids change everytime I load. (Though no long term test yet)
If you are worried about change it, maybe my temporary solution will work as a changed list of controlled mechanoids is not a big deal compared to not loadable at all.
Quote from: Canute on March 27, 2015, 04:49:43 AM
Latta, Mod Order didn't affect that error, allready tryed this.
Someone else mention at another thread (i think mech terraformer) that Misc/MAI mod interfere with the PAL. But i though i tryed to disable that mod before and didn't help.
But once the safegame isn't loading anymore, you only can get it to work when you edit the safegame direct and look for the PAL Core and delete anything about it.
After you could load it, you can add the PAL Core with the GOD Mode without cost.
No, you don't have to do that everytime before load.
Download my attachment here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9221.msg117035#msg117035), and replace original dll with this. (Located on Assemblies folder)
Open your save file, search for PAL_Core, delete <controlledMechanoids>...</controlledMechanoids> .
Save the file, load the game.
Hi Latta,
Just wanted to thank you for this, worked like a charm - I didn't even need to touch the save file, loaded perfectly after replacing the dll.
So far 1.3e is working well, I dont know if PAL still changes mechs controlled on load as i have only as many as Pal can control. That lagg i had at load was a one time thing, might be because i updated from 1.3d to 1.3e without starting a new colony.
I should note that I generated a new world every time added/removed mods from the list while testing.
Here is my mod order, it might help getting this mod working for others.
<li>Core</li>
<li>EdBModOrder</li>
<li>MechanoidTerraformer</li>
<li>MoreMechanoids</li>
<li>AbilityPack</li>
<li>AlienAnts</li>
<li>Biodiversity</li>
<li>XtraPlants</li>
<li>ExtendedWoodworking</li>
<li>EW - XP - ComPatch</li>
<li>A2B</li>
<li>3D Print Guns and Armor</li>
<li>AdvancedLamps</li>
<li>Apothecarius</li>
<li>Apparello</li>
<li>CryptoHax</li>
<li>Clutter</li>
<li>Bulk_Meals</li>
<li>CaveworldFlora</li>
<li>Darkness</li>
<li>DefendThatColony!</li>
<li>DoorControl</li>
<li>ExtraResearchTables1.5</li>
<li>Finer Things</li>
<li>Flammenwerfer</li>
<li>Floorspikes</li>
<li>Glassworks</li>
<li>Graves</li>
<li>LT_RimEffect</li>
<li>LT_SoilingEasy</li>
<li>Medical Training</li>
<li>Meteorite</li>
<li>Modular Tables</li>
<li>Mending</li>
<li>More Vanilla Turrets</li>
<li>MoreBlastingCharges</li>
<li>MoreHair</li>
<li>PrisonImprovements</li>
<li>Rainbow Road</li>
<li>RoofSupport</li>
<li>ShapedCharge</li>
<li>TargetPractise</li>
<li>Thingamajigs</li>
<li>Turret Collection</li>
<li>Turret Collection Overkill</li>
<li>Vas's Hydroponics - Steel</li>
<li>Weed</li>
<li>Snappy Dresser</li>
<li>SeasonalWardrobe</li>
<li>TemperatureControl</li>
<li>T-ConditionRed</li>
<li>T-MoreBedsVanilla</li>
<li>T-MoreFloors</li>
<li>RT Fusebox</li>
<li>Rimsenal</li>
<li>Rimsenal_Federation</li>
<li>Rimsenal_hair</li>
<li>Rimsenal_Security</li>
<li>Rimsenal_Storyteller</li>
<li>Outfitter</li>
<li>Priorityhaul</li>
<li>Horrors</li>
<li>MoreStorage</li>
<li>GlitterTech</li>
<li>M&Co. Common</li>
<li>M&Co. ForceField</li>
<li>M&Co. MiningHelmet</li>
<li>M&Co. MMS</li>
<li>M&Co. Weapons</li>
<li>LT_RedistHeat</li>
<li>ExpandedProsthetics&OrganEngineering</li>
<li>ED-Core</li>
<li>ED-AutoLoader</li>
<li>ED-DeepStrike</li>
<li>ED-LaserDrill</li>
<li>ED-OmniGel</li>
<li>ED-PersonalNanoShields</li>
<li>ED-Plants24H</li>
<li>ED-Shields</li>
<li>ED-Stargate</li>
<li>ED-VisibleRadius</li>
<li>A9_LessIncidentTrolling</li>
<li>A9_Basebuilder_NoRaids</li>
<li>Blood_Deterioration</li>
<li>Clock</li>
<li>Norbals</li>
<li>CyberneticStorm</li>
<li>EdBPrepareCarefully</li>
<li>MAI</li>
<li>Mad Skills</li>
<li>Hospitality</li>
<li>RT Storage</li>
<li>RT Neuromancy</li>
<li>RTGs</li>
<li>MD2Base-4</li>
<li>MD2Fortifications-1</li>
<li>MD2Industry-3</li>
<li>MD2Droids-2</li>
<li>MD2Manufacturing-6</li>
<li>Icons</li>
<li>Xylene-Antirage</li>
<li>EdBInterface</li>
Yes, i love stuffing in as many mods as i can get to work together ;D
Quote from: Latta on March 27, 2015, 04:40:54 AMDid you tried to change mod order? It...MIGHT work. For me, I lost my save anyway so I re-organized whole mod order and it seems okay except controlled mechanoids change everytime I load. (Though no long term test yet)
If you are worried about change it, maybe my temporary solution will work as a changed list of controlled mechanoids is not a big deal compared to not loadable at all.
Actually I tried your DLL and it worked. Though PAL isn't really worth it for my purposes. It does keep my tundra bunker complex warm (-62 outside, 22 degrees inside) without the need for heaters but it wasn't worth the thousands upon thousands of metal just so the dozen or so roomba crawlers don't overheat as much.
(http://i.imgur.com/bD6jVE7.jpg?1)
There's probably a much more efficient PAL arrangement too. Do the coolers need to be facing an open space?
Apparently, it also prevents your mechs going rouge, and going back on the path of human-slaughter.
Also, last I heard, PAL components don't count as a full wall, so it will sorta let heat leak through,
Released Version 1.03f- final attempt at fixing weird savegame bug with PAL Core
- mechanoids can now be repaired
Quote from: veryinky on March 27, 2015, 04:40:02 PM
Though PAL isn't really worth it for my purposes.
It does make them more efficient and also allows you to keep them in the base during battles.
Quote from: Ominus on March 27, 2015, 10:21:52 AM
Yes, i love stuffing in as many mods as i can get to work together ;D
Impressive! But if a bug occurs later in your game, it'll be hell to find the cause :P
Quote from: veryinky on March 25, 2015, 12:36:03 PM
It's my main complaint with the mod. Crawlers short circuit themselves, burn out their limbs and have to be bashed to death to be re-chipped.
Fixed!
Quote from: Orion on March 28, 2015, 03:16:48 AM
[Quote from: veryinky on March 25, 2015, 12:36:03 PM
It's my main complaint with the mod. Crawlers short circuit themselves, burn out their limbs and have to be bashed to death to be re-chipped.
Fixed!
Uh, by that, do you mean they won't burn off their legs or they won't short-circuit, or we don't need to kill and re-chip?
I thought I'd leave that up to you to find out. But what it does is that colonists set to "Repair" will now fix Mechanoids when they're idle.
I think I'm going to stick to 1.03d with Latta's DLL. Latest version doesn't load for me.
(http://i.imgur.com/KHpH89L.jpg?1)
Quote from: Orion on March 28, 2015, 09:09:09 AM
I thought I'd leave that up to you to find out. But what it does is that colonists set to "Repair" will now fix Mechanoids when they're idle.
Welp, time to update the mod
Where is the download for the update, though? I can only find 1.03e
Just a quick report of a possible issue, when i'm ingame and I place down a PAC core, it all works fine, but when I load the game with the PAC in, it fails to load the save and I get the usual broken screen with distorted HUD elements, i'm currently running version A9 722, when I get around to updating i'll let you know if it was just a version incompatability
I use the latest available one, there isn't a link to 1.03f
Orion already updated, he just didn't fixed download link's NAME. Try to check file's uploaded time or its about.xml instead. I can see 1.03f there.
Well, in which case. I have the latest update. Guess i'll re-install it again, just to make sure
-edit
Yeah, it still doesn't work for me, but i'm not running the latest Rimworld. I'll get around to updating that.
-second edit
Turns out I can't update rimworld, my email provider automatically deletes emails after 3 months, so I've lost the download link :'(
Quote from: veryinky on March 28, 2015, 02:51:24 PM
I think I'm going to stick to 1.03d with Latta's DLL. Latest version doesn't load for me.
Sorry, I can't read what's on there. Could you click the red message and make a larger picture so I can read all the text?
I clicking on it doesn't do anything, game's very locked up for me. I'm thinking it's because I'm using Haplo's "Miscellaneous 191 - Vanilla Enhanced" mod and there's some kind of conflict. I'm going to go through my mods to see if that's it.
I've got Misc 191:VE (Colonist Positioning 'n' Groups, Trader, Artefact, Locked Doors, BrainPals.), Vents only from heat distribution, Weapon Crafting, Hospitality and Less Incident Trolling.
Yeah, Miscellaneous is most likely not compatible with my mods. If you can't get a better screenshot, do send me your output log file, after it happened.
Is there any intention of allowing us to utilize the weapons of the mechanoid we revive?
Heavy Massive Hualing job for Centipede? (carry 3 to 4 slots of different items at once)
Quote from: Zorroexe on March 31, 2015, 01:01:01 AM
Is there any intention of allowing us to utilize the weapons of the mechanoid we revive?
Heavy Massive Hualing job for Centipede? (carry 3 to 4 slots of different items at once)
But how would they lift items? They're basically metal slugs with hundreds of tiny legs, and probably some stubs on the sides to attach miniguns & incendiary cannons to them. But if there's some augmentation you could give them (like connecting bionic arms to those stubs) then that'd definitely be something they should do(the multi-hauling thing).
Just pointing out the only flaw I see with this idea.
Probably I'll let you use the centipede for mining. Having it haul stuff would be super ineffective and annoying.
I am considering letting you craft a flamethrower from the flamebot.
Here is an updated version of my "compatible with Misc. mod" dll, based on 1.03f .
For those who are experiencing blackout error after loading existing game with PAL Core, try this one.
Side effect: Controlled mechanoids will not be same every time you load.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Orion on March 31, 2015, 10:19:40 AM
Probably I'll let you use the centipede for mining. Having it haul stuff would be super ineffective and annoying.
I am considering letting you craft a flamethrower from the flamebot.
Torching a flambot with a flamebot-on-a-stick? Cool!
Was playing this mod and i came up with a few ideas(again)
-PAL core health-based insanity, basically the more beaten up the PAL network & its existing mechanoids/buildings become, the more chance it has to spark an undeclared event 'PAL insanity'.
-PAL network degradation. Just does a point of damage to a random PAL building every so often(it'll emphasize the requirement of maintaining the network, if you want to avoid PAL insanity)
-PAL appliance operator. adds a new slot system similar to the PAL's pre-existing '# out of # mechanoids controlled'. But instead of mechanoids, they control various PAL-based buildings.
-PAL door. If an enemy is nearby, the door locks itself, pretty basic, right? But if PAL core insanity is ever added then one of the first signs of that could be doors occasionally locking if colonists are nearby/opening when enemies are nearby and letting them through
-Turrets operated by PAL, they'd be suprisingly powerful, but require a PAL link to be below them(as all other PAL buildings need). The turrets start malfunctioning(attacking random pawns, or generally not attacking anything) if the PAL core goes insane.
-Speaker buildings that can be placed anywhere on a PAL link, they talk to nearby colonists and give them mood buffs(the vanilla social buff), but once they get below a certain % of health, they give off the debuff version(since the speaker's damaged to the point where it's just making really high pitched noises)
-PAL Psychic emitter. Adds a small positive psychic effect to your colonists(also effected by psy sensitivity traits) and adds a small negative effect to enemies(maybe increases in effectiveness they longer they stay in the area). But PAL insanity flips that the other way and makes enemies happier and colonists more likely to break.
-PAL Neural Core(Building & Brain implant). similar to the PAL core, but instead of controlling bots, it controls pawns with the implant. It could be a way to force recruit a prisoner(Turn them into a remote control human)
-PAL drones. Wasn't really sure what i should call them, but anyway. I was looking for stationary pawn that is basically a colonist, but can't move & doesn't need any kind of food or rest. Good for using things like mortars, even placing them behind cover and giving them guns so they can defend your colony for you.(Also has mental breaks when PAL goes insane. Could also be a nice way to use the mechanoid colonist texture you were given, too)
-PAL Core Nexus. 2X2 PAL core building that has two(or more) times more bots being able to be controlled. VERY very expensive though
Quote from: Redshadow on April 05, 2015, 07:38:43 AM
Was playing this mod and i came up with a few ideas(again)
-PAL core health-based insanity, basically the more beaten up the PAL network & its existing mechanoids/buildings become, the more chance it has to spark an undeclared event 'PAL insanity'.
-PAL network degradation. Just does a point of damage to a random PAL building every so often(it'll emphasize the requirement of maintaining the network, if you want to avoid PAL insanity)
-PAL appliance operator. adds a new slot system similar to the PAL's pre-existing '# out of # mechanoids controlled'. But instead of mechanoids, they control various PAL-based buildings.
-PAL door. If an enemy is nearby, the door locks itself, pretty basic, right? But if PAL core insanity is ever added then one of the first signs of that could be doors occasionally locking if colonists are nearby/opening when enemies are nearby and letting them through
-Turrets operated by PAL, they'd be suprisingly powerful, but require a PAL link to be below them(as all other PAL buildings need). The turrets start malfunctioning(attacking random pawns, or generally not attacking anything) if the PAL core goes insane.
-Speaker buildings that can be placed anywhere on a PAL link, they talk to nearby colonists and give them mood buffs(the vanilla social buff), but once they get below a certain % of health, they give off the debuff version(since the speaker's damaged to the point where it's just making really high pitched noises)
-PAL Psychic emitter. Adds a small positive psychic effect to your colonists(also effected by psy sensitivity traits) and adds a small negative effect to enemies(maybe increases in effectiveness they longer they stay in the area). But PAL insanity flips that the other way and makes enemies happier and colonists more likely to break.
-PAL Neural Core(Building & Brain implant). similar to the PAL core, but instead of controlling bots, it controls pawns with the implant. It could be a way to force recruit a prisoner(Turn them into a remote control human)
-PAL drones. Wasn't really sure what i should call them, but anyway. I was looking for stationary pawn that is basically a colonist, but can't move & doesn't need any kind of food or rest. Good for using things like mortars, even placing them behind cover and giving them guns so they can defend your colony for you.(Also has mental breaks when PAL goes insane. Could also be a nice way to use the mechanoid colonist texture you were given, too)
-PAL Core Nexus. 2X2 PAL core building that has two(or more) times more bots being able to be controlled. VERY very expensive though
why do you think that too many stuff in one mod is cool?
if it will be implemented - i'm need an option to switch off some of this "cool" functions of mod >:(
I simply stated a few ideas, i never stated 'ADD ALL OF THESE'.
Please understand the difference between demand and suggestion.
Wow, pretty cool mod.
works really fine but i got a problem with the connection between the mechs and the PAL.
i can't find a way to connect them.
it just says that i don't controll any mechanoid, but i have 7 which already work for me.
can someone tell me, what i do wrong?
if were throwing out suggestions, how hard is it to make PAL a character?
Quote from: Redshadow on April 05, 2015, 07:38:43 AM
Was playing this mod and i came up with a few ideas(again)
I was thinking about some of these as well. Particularly PAL being able to "snap" and turn against the colonists. But after a long time of thinking about it I decided that it's not making it more fun for the player in the long run. Also having the mechanoids work for you is already a big boost, while having to maintain PAL is already quite a burden. Stretching it even further probably won't improve the experience.
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 08, 2015, 07:44:26 AM
if were throwing out suggestions, how hard is it to make PAL a character?
It's possible, it's some amount of work. The question remaining is... why? And what are the benefits?
This is sorta totally random, but a scyther has the ability to make vocal communications.
And sometimes, when I need to really keep a colonist sane, I draft a few colonists and make them stand with the colonist who is in a bad mood, and have them talk to each other.
What if a scyther can be chipped for 'therapy' or 'communications' or whatever, and it's just go around and chat with colonists, making them happier by dispensing social chats?
Quote from: Orion on April 08, 2015, 12:15:26 PM
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 08, 2015, 07:44:26 AM
if were throwing out suggestions, how hard is it to make PAL a character?
It's possible, it's some amount of work. The question remaining is... why? And what are the benefits?
to the why, id like to say because you can, but theres more to it than that. i was actually thinking exactly along the lines of the multi body thread. rather than have each mech a character, i want to see PAL as the single character thats duplicated into each mech. have him have his own interests and abilities and be able to break all by his lonesome. of course, best outcome is that the character is synced over the multiple bodies, but that might be a bit difficult. Still, maybe have a character update where whenever you pull the mechs in they get synced. Then, you can have PAL get a negative mood mod from being turned off, and as future mechanics are released he gets to be more an more interesting, and also capable of getting more an more skills up to silly levels.
Hmm, I see. Interesting ideas. PAL could have his own thoughts / memories that reflect different goals than those of the colonists. And if there are too many negative ones, PAL cracks.
I like it, but it's quite a lot of work again. To be honest I don't have too much time for modding these days - I don't even get around to play :-\
Quote from: Orion on April 08, 2015, 12:15:26 PM
Quote from: Redshadow on April 05, 2015, 07:38:43 AM
Was playing this mod and i came up with a few ideas(again)
I was thinking about some of these as well. Particularly PAL being able to "snap" and turn against the colonists. But after a long time of thinking about it I decided that it's not making it more fun for the player in the long run. Also having the mechanoids work for you is already a big boost, while having to maintain PAL is already quite a burden. Stretching it even further probably won't improve the experience.
That's why i suggested that it turns on you after the network sustained enough damage. It'll be something that players have to keep an eye on &, well, maintain.
But how about - Something like a mechanoid hacker(a unit that tries to get to your PAL network to corrupt it & make it go all insane on yo'). Or a transmitter(which could be an event like the Mechanoid Terraformer mod, it drops down and slowly makes your PAL more hostile towards you the longer you leave the transmitter transmitting)
But if not, then it could merely be a dev menu launched event.
Also another thing that i thought of when reading the comments. Making the PAL into an opinionated personality, in a sense...
What i mean is, people can talk with it, and it builds opinions based on those interactions (if the colonist is Abrasive, he's basically just walking around with a crosshair on his head). Colonists the PAL likes will be protected & treated by controlled doctor bots & other positive things, but if it doesn't like a colonist it'll make it known by occasionally trapping them in places that they won't survive for very long in (such as trapping them in an empty freezer, or in a room with an enemy). Or outright attacking them.
Anyways, thought i'd report something, whilst i was playing there was an animal inanity wave, and it made all my Scythers go insane for a couple of seconds, gutted my only colonist pretty good, locked him in a saferoom and waited until all the scythers calmed down before letting him out again, he survived & got healed by a scyther doc, so yeah... All was cool.
Just thought i'd report that the mechanoids can be psy-waved. I think it's a pretty cool feature though.
I've been meaning to try this mod since A8 and finally got around to it, loving the new threat profiles and there is something oddly mesmerizing about watching an army of murderous Roombas run back and forth to haul the latest batch of raiders to the corpse pile. I noticed two bugs however: The first was a skullywag that was disabled but didn't do the usual waggle around with an exclamation mark routine, looking like it was dead instead. The second, see attachment.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Redshadow on April 11, 2015, 04:22:07 PM
Just thought i'd report that the mechanoids can be psy-waved. I think it's a pretty cool feature though.
Yeah, I had it too and decided it's cool enough to stay. PAL does recover them after a small delay (long enough to do some damage, especially if you have lots of them or your PAL is not very strong).
Again, making PAL do smarter stuff (like going against the colony) is fairly difficult and a lot of work which I don't have time for, unfortunately. Also, I expect A10 to be released soon which will also create a lot of new work just to make things work again.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 12, 2015, 04:19:41 PM
I noticed two bugs however: The first was a skullywag that was disabled but didn't do the usual waggle around with an exclamation mark routine, looking like it was dead instead. The second, see attachment.
Hm. Both weird. Not sure how I'd reproduce them. If I stumble among something when fixing things for A10 I'll look into it.
This mod doesn't seem to be getting as much love as Hospitality, but I loved having an army of crawler-haulers (and that one bot I would rename to 'Roomba' and set to cleaning my base). I hope that you find updating it to A10 not-painful!
Does it work for 10? ive been wanting to play this agian bad.
Quote from: neadlak on April 23, 2015, 07:37:49 AM
This mod doesn't seem to be getting as much love as Hospitality, but I loved having an army of crawler-haulers (and that one bot I would rename to 'Roomba' and set to cleaning my base). I hope that you find updating it to A10 not-painful!
I'd like to give it the same amount of effort - but unfortunately it's also 50x as much work to maintain than Hospitality. So, sorry for that.
I'm also using activity on this thread as a bit of a measurement of how much interest there is from people to get an updated version.
If you want to know if people are really interested by this mod to know if it's really worth to update it, that's what I think. For me at least, it's BY FAR your best mod and the one I love the most ^^
And I don't think waiting for posts to updade a mod is a good idea because exept some posts like "when will this mod be updated ?", "Will this mod be updated or is it dead ?", their is not really much to say and for me at least, I hate writing this because I think it's a lack of respect for modder who just want to take their time to update their mod correctly with all the problem every people can have in their live. Everybody have a life, IRL is more important so take your time and when the mod will be updated, you will have true and smart posts to thank you, to propose you some upgrade to your mod or just bug fix but honestly, it's more correct for you than some "when will you update this ?" xD
I agree. Unless you want to spam 'is this being updated' posts, there isn't really much to talk about. I've seen plenty of good mods not get any posts simply because there wasn't really anything to talk about.
That said, I was thinking, and I think a low-budget PAL might be nice. It could just use steel and a little plasteel or something, and it would take less room than a PAL(just a single tile), but it would only control one mechanoid, and while it won't really prevent anything, it will lower the chances of the mechanoid short-circuiting or going rouge a little, and remove the need to cool the cpu. However, unlike a PAL, a rouge mechanoid will have to be put down, since the control unit won't be good enough to put it back under control.
I just thought it might be nice to have a few cleaners and haulers without needing a supercomputer the size of a large building.
Quote from: AllenWL on April 26, 2015, 07:34:25 AM
I just thought it might be nice to have a few cleaners and haulers without needing a supercomputer the size of a large building.
I thought the resource requirements for PAL were pretty ridiculous anyway, considering it only provides a minor boost in productiveness and protection from events that aren't a big problem anyway. Out of curiosity I actually went into god mode and tried out what it would take to get all my Mechanoids linked and I ended up with this monstrosity (http://i.imgur.com/idOjCbl.jpg).
A computer this size I would expect to be able to sweep the landscape near a pirate base with a psychic wave and wipe it out with crazy boomrats, not just give me a slight increase in productivity that isn't really useful on anything but haulers anyway. With the resources required to build this thing I could have built multiple spaceships and escaped the planet several times over. As it stands I really don't see a reason to even build PAL, the construction costs and power requirements are just insane.
But... you can build another core instead of all those blocks, can't you?
Quote from: Orion on April 26, 2015, 06:40:43 AM
I'm also using activity on this thread as a bit of a measurement of how much interest there is from people to get an updated version.
Well I for one, would love an update
^I would love an update too :D
Quote from: HBKRKO619 on April 26, 2015, 06:49:09 AM
And I don't think waiting for posts to updade a mod is a good idea because exept some posts like "when will this mod be updated ?", "Will this mod be updated or is it dead ?", their is not really much to say and for me at least, I hate writing this because I think it's a lack of respect for modder who just want to take their time to update their mod correctly with all the problem every people can have in their live.
You do have a point. Although my other reason still stands... sheer lack of time to look into it. I expect to be busy on it for a week straight, or at least one or two 100% focused weekends. So far that opportunity didn't show up.
No problem Orion ^^ Like I said, real life is way more important, take your time, I know you will do a good job when you'll be ready to :)
Quote from: Latta on April 26, 2015, 09:31:06 AM
But... you can build another core instead of all those blocks, can't you?
Can you? If that's the case it makes even less sense to require such huge investments.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 27, 2015, 11:00:07 AM
Quote from: Latta on April 26, 2015, 09:31:06 AM
But... you can build another core instead of all those blocks, can't you?
Can you? If that's the case it makes even less sense to require such huge investments.
Hm... if it is possible, it shouldn't actually work. Sounds like a bug :P
Quote from: Orion on April 26, 2015, 06:40:43 AM
I'm also using activity on this thread as a bit of a measurement of how much interest there is from people to get an updated version.
All I have to say is Superior Crafting is not the same without the Mechanoid expansion pack!
I am interested, i loved you mod!
Quote from: Latta on April 26, 2015, 09:31:06 AM
But... you can build another core instead of all those blocks, can't you?
That's a lot of AI cores. I don't know, but having to meet and beat 10+ ancient ships and god knows how much mechanoids, or spending a few thousand silver for some slightly better haulers doesn't seem like a good investment.
Yeah, it's not just the hackable mechanoids. I just really liked the addition of the new mechanoid types. I'd love to see this one updated to A10.
Just came to see when I could look forward to using this mod in A10... I'll add my voice to the chorus of encouragement for an update!
I too will add my voice to the petition to get this upgraded to A10 :)
I too love having the crawler-haulers in my games....and would love this mod updated as well.
I also dont use the PAL due to construction costs and the fact it tends to mess up my save file...
Since your time appears to be thin, could the next version have PAL split off maybe and just have the new/re-programmable mech's to make future updating easier?
Either way know this mod is appreciated...
Splitting won't be an option, due to the complexity. I could remove PAL entirely, although I think that'd be a shame. Maybe it can be made to work better instead.
Quote from: Orion on May 06, 2015, 05:03:52 PM
Splitting won't be an option, due to the complexity. I could remove PAL entirely, although I think that'd be a shame. Maybe it can be made to work better instead.
I used this mod with Superior Crafting.
Some (hopefully) helpful criticism:
I will admit that I was also quite underwhelmed with PAL in regards to it's resource cost, space cost, and cost of cooling. By the time I got a good-sized computer running, it could only cover something like an eighth to a quarter of the mechanoids I had running around (3 cutters, 1 miner, 1 cook, and every crawler I could get my hands on to haul/clean).
I wouldn't build PAL again in its current state except as a resource sink and vanity item. Of course, at the point where building PAL becomes a priority, that just might be what this game needs...
Once I could reprogram mechs, I was looking forward to their raids even more than pirates, since I could repair every mech and they didn't have moods or need food like colonists. I had A LOT of fun putting out fires from Roombas short-circuiting and the occasional mech berserk was interesting. Perhaps these events (particularly the fires? I don't like the randomness of berserk damage...) could be made much more frequent for mechs not connected to PAL, and slightly more frequent even for PAL-controlled mechs. This would make PAL construction much more important and more valuable, as well as slightly decrease the value of mechs.
Crawlers are incredibly valuable, and abundant. Freeing up my colonists from those non-skilled jobs greatly increased my productivity. I used about 4-6 Scythers as plant cutters and a miner. It was a small map and I had some skilled miners, so I didn't need more than that. I never tried a doctor-bot because I had some very skilled doctors, and my colony was small so I only needed 1 cooking bot.
The raid makeup seems about right (a good, dangerous mix) and the jobs seem to fit thematically, so I'm not sure there's anything to do there. From a balance perspective, it seems a good idea to split the hauling and cleaning jobs to different mechs (at least one which is less abundant than the crawler type), but I enjoy seeing my army of ants hauling things and petting my hard-working Roombas... hopefully you won't find this necessary.
Perhaps the cost of reprogramming mechs should be increased? This may not apply to your mod, as I was using Superior Crafting and Abrexus may have changed the costs upon integration to use the resources at his disposal, or the costs he imported do not mesh well with other goods in the mod.
Is it possible to cause some mech corpses to be unrepairable? Maybe a chance to explode on death?
Perhaps there should be an intermediary step 'harvest mech parts.' It would then take several deceased mechs to create one reprogrammed one. 'Harvest mech parts' perhaps could give a different amount of parts for each mech type, possibly even based on the condition of the mech corpse (body parts destroyed decreases parts yielded... if that's even possible).
TL;DRI like that PAL is a luxury good. Reducing number of reprogrammed mechs from each mech raid may help the pacing of PAL construction (meaning the player may have fewer mechs but will be able to keep most of them controlled by PAL). Increasing the cost of mechs may also help move toward that. More malfunctions will increase the cost of mechs and increase the value of building PAL (if PAL-control reduces malfunctions).I realize that some of the suggestions above are quite ambitious and maybe outside the scope of what you had in mind for the mod. I just wanted to throw a bunch of ideas out there in the hopes that something would inspire =)
Thanks for all your work on this project!
Superior crafting uses steel/plasteel bars to craft, and I think it's 10 ores to 20 bars, so with Superior crafting, things would cost about 1/2 as they would without the mod. I think.
Personally, I think the PAL could be cheaper/more compact.
I mean, I pretty much just keep a miner, hauler, and cleaner(mainly because being in a dark dirty cave half the map away makes my colonists pretty unhappy), then turn all other mechanoids into plasteel/steel.
I mean, yea, I could keep more, but seeing that without a PAL, they tend to go rogue and stop every so often to 'cool down' I find that I just don't really want the bother. The PAL needs loads of resources, lots of room, and much power. All things that could be turned to things more profitable, like my year-round farm, or the base defenses. I can afford it for 3~5 mechanoids. Any more, and I really don't feel it's worth it.
On a totally unrelated note, I have a idea. What about instead of chipping dead mechanoids(which, really, is pretty easy to do), you need to repair and reprogram a incapacitated mechanoid? Just like harvesting parts from scyther or shutting down mechanoids, we would be able to repair and rechip incapacitated mechanoids from the health tab.
This would make it slightly more difficult to get mechanoid helpers without having us use tons of resorces to do so, and it would also mean that the more damaged a mechanoid is, the more resources it takes to repair it, so we won't have the things like, 'the resource it takes to repair and rechip this scyther that was blasted to pieces by grenades is the same as repairing that scyther that just lost a leg and was shut down!'
Thanks for the feedback guys!
kakafika, the way PAL is balanced is just so you don't build hundreds of mechanoids, since it's VERY powerful to have such a large workforce without needs for pretty much anything. I usually play with 4-8 mechanoids, optimally. Less while trying to size up PAL.
Having mechanoids makes a lot of things easier (e.g. keeping colonists happy and productive), so there must be a strong price tag attached.
It is already so that PAL reduces malfunctions of mechanoids. I do think I can make PAL increase a little less in cost towards higher levels, since it does get a bit ridiculous around 10. But then also, having 10 mechs slaving away day and night is a massive boost of productivity.
AllenWL, I was considering something along these lines. I think incapped mechanoids are too rare, but I do want to increase the cost of fixing up and repairing mechanoids to make it clear that they're high end stuff. The idea here is that repairs take spareparts which can be salvaged from other mechanoids corpses. So to keep repairing and chipping mechanoids you do need to entertain a collection of spareparts.
Maybe increase the chances for a mechanoid to be incapacitated by decreasing the chances of a important bit(like the data processing unit) being hit and increasing the chances for a not-so-important(like legs) bit being hit?
Maybe have mechanoid AI chips be a expensive trader-only item, like glitterworld medicine, or tv's?
Or instead of having mechanoids get salvaged into plasteel and steel, they turn into spareparts/advanced alloy(come on, they don't look like plasteel or steel at all)/special mechanoid thingys which can be melted down for metal in the electric furnace?
Just throwing ideas out there.
Oh, and another thing, repairing a mechanoid that has nearly every possible part ripped out should still take less then rechipping a dead mechanoid. 'Oh, let's just kill it and rechip it' should not be a viable option for repairing mechanoids.
Oh, and a totally random idea, but won't it be cool(and really annoying/scary/whatever) if you could make a tiny mechanoid type that can go through vents?
Quote from: AllenWL on May 09, 2015, 08:00:49 AM
Maybe increase the chances for a mechanoid to be incapacitated by decreasing the chances of a important bit(like the data processing unit) being hit and increasing the chances for a not-so-important(like legs) bit being hit?
Maybe have mechanoid AI chips be a expensive trader-only item, like glitterworld medicine, or tv's?
Or instead of having mechanoids get salvaged into plasteel and steel, they turn into spareparts/advanced alloy(come on, they don't look like plasteel or steel at all)/special mechanoid thingys which can be melted down for metal in the electric furnace?
Just throwing ideas out there.
Oh, and another thing, repairing a mechanoid that has nearly every possible part ripped out should still take less then rechipping a dead mechanoid. 'Oh, let's just kill it and rechip it' should not be a viable option for repairing mechanoids.
Oh, and a totally random idea, but won't it be cool(and really annoying/scary/whatever) if you could make a tiny mechanoid type that can go through vents?
Interesting points. The biggest issue, though, is how rechipping works. I actually have to replace the whole object (it's an ingredient, actually) for a fresh one and can't change the recipe based on the condition of the object.
Best would be to make it an operation on the object, but I could never get that to work properly. Also then I have to come up with a way to communicate to the player why he can't do it, when certain parts are missing.
Interesting mechanoid type indeed. But I think I can't pull it off, because of how pathfinding works.
any chance to expect an update soon?
Somehow in my quests to make my awesome mountains of doom during Alpha 9, I missed this mod. Now I eagerly await the return of this mod for A10 since I have moved to modded A10 (since I always beat up the Alpha in nonmodded to try to break it first). This will go on my ever expanding wishlist for my next colony after my current modded colony goes into space (or dies in a blaze of glory(usually the later).
To my own disappointment I still couldn't find a reasonably long stretch of free time to port it. It's a shame, I know. One of the risks of modding for a game in alpha state, I guess.
Life comes first of course...
This mod is worth patiently waiting for... I do miss those little crawlers going berserk from time to time though
Just thought I'd give a bit of an update:
I've made some progress converting the mod. Given how much code I've created for this mod (about 1-2 months of fulltime work ::) ) there's so much to fix.
- All the xml files are adusted.
- All the code changes are reintegrated (fixed obvious errors).
- The mechanoid attacks work again, somewhat tested.
- Converted mechanoids mostly work again, although the changes to the "needs" system have thrown major obstacles in my way (why oh why can't custom needs be limited to specific pawns?).
- Crafting them is untested, but should work.
- PAL is still completely untested.
That is awesome...
If you need a hand testing it , vanilla or especially with a bunch of mods I'm game
Quote from: Orion on May 17, 2015, 02:48:35 PM
Just thought I'd give a bit of an update:
I've made some progress converting the mod. Given how much code I've created for this mod (about 1-2 months of fulltime work ::) ) there's so much to fix.
- All the xml files are adusted.
- All the code changes are reintegrated (fixed obvious errors).
- The mechanoid attacks work again, somewhat tested.
- Converted mechanoids mostly work again, although the changes to the "needs" system have thrown major obstacles in my way (why oh why can't custom needs be limited to specific pawns?).
- Crafting them is untested, but should work.
- PAL is still completely untested.
Could you offer the mod in the current state it is in now, i would like to be able to use it in my modpack but i would have to remove allowing them to be controlled, and remove the PAL anyways for balance purposes because i already use droids.
Quote from: BangUDie on May 17, 2015, 06:57:21 PM
That is awesome...
If you need a hand testing it , vanilla or especially with a bunch of mods I'm game
Testing is not really useful yet, since the problems occurring right now are quite obvious to me. But once I have a version ready here it'd be handy to get it tried out a lot with good error reporting. So, thanks!
Quote from: Ninefinger on May 17, 2015, 07:01:34 PM
Could you offer the mod in the current state it is in now, i would like to be able to use it in my modpack but i would have to remove allowing them to be controlled, and remove the PAL anyways for balance purposes because i already use droids.
Sure, here it is (https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8w1nahg9djjy0p/MoreMechanoids%201.04%20unfinished.zip?dl=0)! For everyone not into modding, I wouldn't try it yet. It'll probably kill all your colonists, destroy your savefiles and uninstall Windows, so don't say I didn't warn you. EDIT: Oh, and it will probably do it all while pretending that everything goes perfectly fine.
Quote from: Orion on May 18, 2015, 04:31:58 AM
Quote from: BangUDie on May 17, 2015, 06:57:21 PM
That is awesome...
If you need a hand testing it , vanilla or especially with a bunch of mods I'm game
Testing is not really useful yet, since the problems occurring right now are quite obvious to me. But once I have a version ready here it'd be handy to get it tried out a lot with good error reporting. So, thanks!
Quote from: Ninefinger on May 17, 2015, 07:01:34 PM
Could you offer the mod in the current state it is in now, i would like to be able to use it in my modpack but i would have to remove allowing them to be controlled, and remove the PAL anyways for balance purposes because i already use droids.
Sure, here it is (https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8w1nahg9djjy0p/MoreMechanoids%201.04%20unfinished.zip?dl=0)! For everyone not into modding, I wouldn't try it yet. It'll probably kill all your colonists, destroy your savefiles and uninstall Windows, so don't say I didn't warn you. EDIT: Oh, and it will probably do it all while pretending that everything goes perfectly fine.
Don't worry newbies in modding. This can only crash a game :D You're so evil, Orion ^^
Quote from: Orion on May 18, 2015, 04:31:58 AM
Quote from: BangUDie on May 17, 2015, 06:57:21 PM
That is awesome...
If you need a hand testing it , vanilla or especially with a bunch of mods I'm game
Testing is not really useful yet, since the problems occurring right now are quite obvious to me. But once I have a version ready here it'd be handy to get it tried out a lot with good error reporting. So, thanks!
Quote from: Ninefinger on May 17, 2015, 07:01:34 PM
Could you offer the mod in the current state it is in now, i would like to be able to use it in my modpack but i would have to remove allowing them to be controlled, and remove the PAL anyways for balance purposes because i already use droids.
Sure, here it is (https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8w1nahg9djjy0p/MoreMechanoids%201.04%20unfinished.zip?dl=0)! For everyone not into modding, I wouldn't try it yet. It'll probably kill all your colonists, destroy your savefiles and uninstall Windows, so don't say I didn't warn you. EDIT: Oh, and it will probably do it all while pretending that everything goes perfectly fine.
LOL Thanks! I appreciate it! :)
hey man glad to hear this mod is still in development. i haven't been around much as i have moved and am yet to get internet on top of being kinda done with rimworld for a little while. its like when you play your new favourite album too much, which indecently i have also done recently.
ps. the pal system took me a while to figure out and its pretty restrictive because if you spawn on a world with no plasteel then your boned to a large degree. i think the concept is cool. i think it takes way too many parts to get functioning and needs better explanation/linear progression in game to make it easier. ill always love this mod but i think the pal should be either simpler or provide much more functionality for the amount of resource/time that it requires. again i havent been around much so i could be way off target at this point. keep up the good work bro this is one of the best mods out there
PAL does have a huge effect on the efficiency of your mechanoids. But it is not communicated very well to the player right now, that is true.
It was created out of this pipe dream that the player has to build and maintain a huge mainframe computer. But I am considering scrapping PAL again / taking it out of the current version of the mod. It will speed up bringing the mod over to the latest alpha, and given my restricted time these days, that may be a good choice. I doubt anyone will shed tears over it.
I dont mind cutting PAL for now in order for a quicker update timeframe, but in the long run I'd like PAL back since I quit enjoyed having the cost/benefit of building a PAL or not :)
I can tell you that enjoyed the mod much more before the pal. I think Just having a little homing computer with a homing bay for each crawler would be better. Just my opinion. maybe some more advanced stuff would be good after the game has been released and you have more time. maybe we could customise the mechs, colors, function, survivability etc. there could be some computer benches required for some of this stuff. just ideas. appreciate your effort man
Really loving the mod! I also like those crawlers. I mean they are weak but still! So many coming for you. I really love it.
Hey! I love the idea of the mod and I'm looking forward to using it when it's updated! (Specifically, to revive a certain mechanoid "hero" in my colony and use him to my advantage...) How's progress been going updating it? Thanks.
Hey would it be possible to have a sort of modern mech in the mod. Cause we've got all these advanced mechs made of plasteel and with lasers and cutters and stuff, but they couldve been stranded on the edge of the galaxy for who knows how long. They couldve lost the ability to make the cool advance mechs we've seen. They mightve needed to scavage to survive. You could make a sort of mech made of steel, looking totally functional and like a terminator sort of look, bare metal, exbosed, busted, the bare minimum. And they could have balistic weapons, rifles, machine guns, snipers. They could even be so bad off they have beaten tribes up, taken thier weapons, and use those. They may even be so old, desperate and defunct that they may be hostile to other mechs. They could be mech scavengers or acient mechs or malfunctioning mechs
Quote from: killer117 on June 01, 2015, 04:10:41 AM
Hey would it be possible to have a sort of modern mech in the mod. Cause we've got all these advanced mechs made of plasteel and with lasers and cutters and stuff, but they couldve been stranded on the edge of the galaxy for who knows how long. They couldve lost the ability to make the cool advance mechs we've seen. They mightve needed to scavage to survive. You could make a sort of mech made of steel, looking totally functional and like a terminator sort of look, bare metal, exbosed, busted, the bare minimum. And they could have balistic weapons, rifles, machine guns, snipers. They could even be so bad off they have beaten tribes up, taken thier weapons, and use those. They may even be so old, desperate and defunct that they may be hostile to other mechs. They could be mech scavengers or acient mechs or malfunctioning mechs
I like the idea of a new large and bosslike mechanoid that rarely spawns. But kinda seems like it might need to be a separate mod, I dunno.
I wasent thinking so much in boss terms as more of a mid level infantry. Tougher than raiders, but not the hardcore level of normal mechs. They're good. But there not a class of thier own. Kinda like a buncha trashed and disfigured sythers with balistic/ melee weapons.
Great ideas there!
I wish I had more time to work on the mod :-[ Right now all my time goes into fixing it for the latest alpha (and 11 is coming soon too, I believe). So yeah. No time for new things :-\
Ok then no prob. Just thought it was a cool idea and better for eirlier players in a new game.
Quote from: killer117 on June 01, 2015, 06:53:11 AM
I wasent thinking so much in boss terms as more of a mid level infantry. Tougher than raiders, but not the hardcore level of normal mechs. They're good. But there not a class of thier own. Kinda like a buncha trashed and disfigured sythers with balistic/ melee weapons.
Ahh, I see.
Quote from: Orion on June 01, 2015, 07:04:04 AM
Great ideas there!
I wish I had more time to work on the mod :-[ Right now all my time goes into fixing it for the latest alpha (and 11 is coming soon too, I believe). So yeah. No time for new things :-\
How's progress there? I asked before on the previous page, but I'm not sure if it was seen. Sorry if it was and you just didn't feel like replying yet.
Quote from: killer117 on June 01, 2015, 04:10:41 AM
Hey would it be possible to have a sort of modern mech in the mod. Cause we've got all these advanced mechs made of plasteel and with lasers and cutters and stuff, but they couldve been stranded on the edge of the galaxy for who knows how long. They couldve lost the ability to make the cool advance mechs we've seen. They mightve needed to scavage to survive. You could make a sort of mech made of steel, looking totally functional and like a terminator sort of look, bare metal, exbosed, busted, the bare minimum. And they could have balistic weapons, rifles, machine guns, snipers. They could even be so bad off they have beaten tribes up, taken thier weapons, and use those. They may even be so old, desperate and defunct that they may be hostile to other mechs. They could be mech scavengers or acient mechs or malfunctioning mechs
A dysfunctional, broken mechanoid with a bad patch job and scavenged weapons pissed at the world and ready to attack and slaughter anything? Sounds cool!
Now my mind has wandered off to the world of old, dysfunctional mechanoids stumping along on mismatched prosthetic legs, its body patched with random rusty sheets of metal and scraps of leather(No, that's not human leather there on it's back. At least I don't think it is....), a empty shot-out eye socket weakly sputtering next to a human eye wielded in, a shining, rusted(Yep, totally rust. Definitely not blood of whatever poor pawn that got their arm ripped off) bionic arm dragging along a charge rifle and a uranium spear for his other arm, whistling a jaunty tune as he slaughters anything smarter than the average muffalo.
Not sure if my mind will come back and share the story.
Another random idea that I'm not sure if had been suggest before, but...
What if mechanoids had 'thoughts'? Instead of randomly breaking down, mechanoids would have to be managed, and if not properly managed(Injured, chip not cooled) or in bad conditions(wet, in extreme[and I mean really extreme] temperatures, etc) it will lower it's 'mood' which can cause the robot to malfunction.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 03, 2015, 03:35:12 AM
Another random idea that I'm not sure if had been suggest before, but...
What if mechanoids had 'thoughts'? Instead of randomly breaking down, mechanoids would have to be managed, and if not properly managed(Injured, chip not cooled) or in bad conditions(wet, in extreme[and I mean really extreme] temperatures, etc) it will lower it's 'mood' which can cause the robot to malfunction.
ROBOTS ARE PEOPLE TOO I think that's a pretty interesting idea, writing the descriptions for the "thoughts" would be pretty fun too.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 03, 2015, 03:35:12 AM
What if mechanoids had 'thoughts'?
I was actually contemplating doing it like that. But the implementational difficulties were overwhelming (not that they weren't for any other part of this mod, but you have to make choices), since you can't just turn off the thoughts of "normal people".
Quote from: Scottnov on June 01, 2015, 06:28:57 PM
How's progress there?
Yeah, not so good. Chances are high that A11 catches up with me before it's done and I'm back to square zero (well, almost). Hopefully A11 is not going to change so integral parts as A10 did (some stuff was set to "private", which effectively means ****load of work).
I have to admit I was fairly naive tackling such a big mod and not expecting it to become a full-time job, just to keep it uptodate with the core game. But enough of the whining, I'll see if I can progress some more this weekend.
Quote from: Orion on June 05, 2015, 03:48:55 AM
Yeah, not so good. Chances are high that A11 catches up with me before it's done and I'm back to square zero (well, almost). Hopefully A11 is not going to change so integral parts as A10 did (some stuff was set to "private", which effectively means ****load of work).
I have to admit I was fairly naive tackling such a big mod and not expecting it to become a full-time job, just to keep it uptodate with the core game. But enough of the whining, I'll see if I can progress some more this weekend.
Sorry to hear that. I suppose we'll just have to hope A11 doesn't alter the progression of the mod too much. Good luck on updating it and I really appreciate how much you care about the mod! Try not to overwork yourself, though.
On a slightly higher note, here's a picture of the mechanoid idol, Army of One, in his tomb, waiting for revival. What does this add to my post?
...
...Motivation...?
(http://i.imgur.com/aTKvBWL.png)
Hah, nice one, thanks!
The overworking part might already be too late (due to work and such), which would explain why I make so little progress.
Quote from: Orion on June 06, 2015, 03:00:06 AM
Hah, nice one, thanks!
The overworking part might already be too late (due to work and such), which would explain why I make so little progress.
Ah, I see, try not to overwork yourself much, then.
I've got a lot of stuff done this weekend. I am simplifying the mod though, to make it more manageable (and because I just couldn't get some things to work after hours of trying to workaround).
The way it looks for now:
- PAL will be removed; it didn't have the effect I wanted and costs tons of time to update to new versions of RimWorld
- Mechanoids won't have to rest anymore; getting custom needs to work on them correctly proved impossible
- Mechanoids will encounter random crashes during which they need to reboot; the frequency will depend on the quality of the AI chip
- I'm preparing to make them upgradeable; you could implant a better AI chip later; add better cooling; what have you
- There will be wear and tear later that causes them damage over time; for starters they will need more frequent repairs; later these repairs will require spare parts which you get from dismantling mechanoids
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
I've got a lot of stuff done this weekend. I am simplifying the mod though, to make it more manageable (and because I just couldn't get some things to work after hours of trying to workaround).
Awesome! Though I did like the more complex elements, I'm sure they will either be replaced or brought back somehow in the future.
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
The way it looks for now:
- PAL will be removed; it didn't have the effect I wanted and costs tons of time to update to new versions of RimWorld
Fair enough - there doesn't seem to be any other options based on what you've said before. I do like the idea of having to run a mainframe though.
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
- Mechanoids won't have to rest anymore; getting custom needs to work on them correctly proved impossible
It was a neat mechanic, but if there's simply no workaround then I suppose it's a lot better than the mod never updating. Maybe at some point it will become implementable again.
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
- Mechanoids will encounter random crashes during which they need to reboot; the frequency will depend on the quality of the AI chip
I like this idea, it adds more drive for the player to start upgrading their mechanoids. But how does it work? Do they simply reboot on the spot? How long does it take?
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
- I'm preparing to make them upgradeable; you could implant a better AI chip later; add better cooling; what have you
This is a really cool idea too. While upgrading your mechanoids would improve their efficiency a lot, I assume it would be pretty costly, giving it a nice balance. How would these upgrades be applied though?
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
- There will be wear and tear later that causes them damage over time; for starters they will need more frequent repairs; later these repairs will require spare parts which you get from dismantling mechanoids
Interesting idea. What do you mean by this sort of curve of needing repairs, though? Just for the longer you have them?
Looking forward to the update, whenever that may be. Good to hear things are still progressing.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 07, 2015, 06:35:30 PM
I do like the idea of having to run a mainframe though.
I liked the idea too. But in practise it wasn't all that interesting.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 07, 2015, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
- Mechanoids will encounter random crashes during which they need to reboot; the frequency will depend on the quality of the AI chip
I like this idea, it adds more drive for the player to start upgrading their mechanoids. But how does it work? Do they simply reboot on the spot? How long does it take?
It'll be pretty much like they're right now when not connected to PAL. They drop their task where they are standing, idle for a few seconds and then continue. Obviously interrupting tasks all the time makes them less productive, but that's the whole point, of course.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 07, 2015, 06:35:30 PM
While upgrading your mechanoids would improve their efficiency a lot, I assume it would be pretty costly, giving it a nice balance. How would these upgrades be applied though?
I'm not sure yet. I'll have to see what proves easy to implement. Probably like when you take off the blades from a Scyther when they're unconscious, as an operation.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 07, 2015, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
- There will be wear and tear later that causes them damage over time; for starters they will need more frequent repairs; later these repairs will require spare parts which you get from dismantling mechanoids
Interesting idea. What do you mean by this sort of curve of needing repairs, though? Just for the longer you have them?
Oh, I didn't mean a curve here. More that the first version will keep this really simple (they just get very little damage from existing). But in a later version you'll be able to procude spare parts and will need them to fix up your mechanoids.
Quote from: Canute on June 08, 2015, 07:12:33 AM
Ok, i don't see the reason for these crashes.
The Crashes are just a software problem not a hardware one. What would you do when you editor crashes randomly crashes while you create these mod ? :-)
They don't eat, don't need to sleep, don't care about their mood and work day and night. If my editor would do that on its own, I really wouldn't mind some crashes.
The alternative was some resting time, which also doesn't make much sense, unless they'd really recharge from your power network. But that's a lot more work to create.
Quote from: Canute on June 08, 2015, 07:12:33 AM
Edit: But i would be a nice idea to add some extra Capture Mech's event, like a software upgrade from Mechosoft went worng and all Mech's shutdown for a day until Mechosoft deliver a new patch.
And the Mechanoid hive manage it to add a virus into the software upgrade system, that activate the catastrophe recovery system on the Mech and let them go berserk or move away to find the Mechanoid hive.
This is a cool idea. Though, the reason for the shutdown would probably have to because of a solar flare, or maybe some kind of cybernetic attack on them, since there's probably no active source still updating mechanoids on the rimworlds. I feel like the event in which a virus could infect mechanoids would work better when installing a new upgrade or repairing mechanoids using spare parts (preferably the last one) as a very low chance for it to happen each time. Maybe with a certain, more expensive upgrade, you could either prevent viruses on a mechanoid entirely or maybe just reduce the chance to near impossible.
Quote from: Orion on June 07, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
Oh, I didn't mean a curve here. More that the first version will keep this really simple (they just get very little damage from existing). But in a later version you'll be able to procude spare parts and will need them to fix up your mechanoids.
Ahh, I see. That seems like an interesting mechanic and another way to balance them. I assume mechanoids from hives haven't broken down due to constant repairs from other mechanoids?
So, excuse the double post, but alpha 11 came out, and though I am not a modder (though I have some limited programming knowledge) it doesn't seem to have introduced anything that would halt progression of the mod. What are chances looking like, Orion?
Quote from: Scottnov on June 09, 2015, 06:27:24 PM
Ahh, I see. That seems like an interesting mechanic and another way to balance them. I assume mechanoids from hives haven't broken down due to constant repairs from other mechanoids?
Indeed. They might also have huge factories churning out spanking new mechanoids from recycled material. Who knows how long it takes them to set up such a factory. Might even make for an interesting mod. Mechanoids that build a factory on your turf.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 10, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
So, excuse the double post, but alpha 11 came out, and though I am not a modder (though I have some limited programming knowledge) it doesn't seem to have introduced anything that would halt progression of the mod. What are chances looking like, Orion?
I haven't looked at A11 yet. In fact, I won't, for at least a week, so the hotfixes are out before I start putting work into it. Also I still have some issues to fix concerning A10 that most likely won't be solved by A11.
What causes the most work are actually not the new features. Most trouble is caused by refactoring (moved, renamed or optimized code) and decreased rights (public functions becoming private, etc.). Sometimes one little keyword can mean that I have to reproduce the functionality of one or more whole classes, just to work around the fact that I can't access or extend something anymore.
Also a major pain is the user interface. Since many people (myself included) prefer the EdBInterface, I have to make everything work for the normal interface and that one. And since EdB has pretty much hardcoded the default user interface, I can't just add another tab - I have to make everything work within the rules of the tabs that are already there. So essentially I have to try one workaround after the other until I've programmed one that doesn't break anything in the end while still doing what I need. It's a very tedious process.
Quote from: Orion on June 11, 2015, 04:40:00 AM
Indeed. They might also have huge factories churning out spanking new mechanoids from recycled material. Who knows how long it takes them to set up such a factory. Might even make for an interesting mod. Mechanoids that build a factory on your turf.
Definitely - though it's probably a project for another modder since you seem busy enough as it is. Might be cool too if they had the possibility to already be on the map when you crash land, though it might prove too difficult to survive in areas like that. Maybe you could even find a naturally spawned, broken down and partially destroyed mechanoid factory, which might have some old deactivated mechanoids that reactivate when you enter it. Successfully raiding one would give you a pretty nice source of scavengeable metal, however.
Quote from: Orion on June 11, 2015, 04:40:00 AM
I haven't looked at A11 yet. In fact, I won't, for at least a week, so the hotfixes are out before I start putting work into it. Also I still have some issues to fix concerning A10 that most likely won't be solved by A11.
Yeah, that seems fair. If you just managed to update it to A10 for right now, though, I'd be happy with that since A11 didn't add much that I feel is spectacular or anything, and I won't be downloading the update until I'm finished with my current colony. That's just me, but I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer an update to A10 and sometime later A11
Quote from: Orion on June 11, 2015, 04:40:00 AM
What causes the most work are actually not the new features. Most trouble is caused by refactoring (moved, renamed or optimized code) and decreased rights (public functions becoming private, etc.). Sometimes one little keyword can mean that I have to reproduce the functionality of one or more whole classes, just to work around the fact that I can't access or extend something anymore.
Interesting, I can understand how that would be quite frusturating.
Quote from: Orion on June 11, 2015, 04:40:00 AM
I haven't looked at A11 yet. In fact, I won't, for at least a week, so the hotfixes are out before I start putting work into it. Also I still have some issues to fix concerning A10 that most likely won't be solved by A11.
What causes the most work are actually not the new features. Most trouble is caused by refactoring (moved, renamed or optimized code) and decreased rights (public functions becoming private, etc.). Sometimes one little keyword can mean that I have to reproduce the functionality of one or more whole classes, just to work around the fact that I can't access or extend something anymore.
Also a major pain is the user interface. Since many people (myself included) prefer the EdBInterface, I have to make everything work for the normal interface and that one. And since EdB has pretty much hardcoded the default user interface, I can't just add another tab - I have to make everything work within the rules of the tabs that are already there. So essentially I have to try one workaround after the other until I've programmed one that doesn't break anything in the end while still doing what I need. It's a very tedious process.
Yet another thing to worry about, I see. It seems you've got a lot to work on, so it's perfectly okay to take your time. Might be a silly suggestion, but have you tried looking at how Mechanical Defense 2 handles it's droids for ideas on how to create a good workaround? I haven't ever used it, and it may or may not be compatible with EdB's interface either. But hey, I thought I'd ask anyway.
Again, I applaud your persistence with updating the mod, and I hope my queries aren't a bother to you.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 11, 2015, 05:13:24 AM
Maybe you could even find a naturally spawned, broken down and partially destroyed mechanoid factory, which might have some old deactivated mechanoids that reactivate when you enter it. Successfully raiding one would give you a pretty nice source of scavengeable metal, however.
I was working on a mod that would spawn random connected rooms in mountains, as my first mod, but never finished it. So generating mechanoid factories is possible (albeit tricky, if you want to make it really nice).
Quote from: Scottnov on June 11, 2015, 05:13:24 AM
That's just me, but I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer an update to A10 and sometime later A11
That's a good point actually. I guess I'll first finish everything for A10 then before proceeding with A11.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 11, 2015, 05:13:24 AM
Might be a silly suggestion, but have you tried looking at how Mechanical Defense 2 handles it's droids for ideas on how to create a good workaround?
Actually, I haven't. But that's not a bad idea. I'll take a look how they solved some things.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 11, 2015, 05:13:24 AM
Again, I applaud your persistence with updating the mod, and I hope my queries aren't a bother to you.
Of course not. It's always nice if people are leaving comments here.
Quote from: Orion on June 12, 2015, 03:28:39 AM
I was working on a mod that would spawn random connected rooms in mountains, as my first mod, but never finished it. So generating mechanoid factories is possible (albeit tricky, if you want to make it really nice).
Interesting, depending on the scale of mechanoid factories it might be difficult to find a place for them in world generation though. Maybe that could just be an obstacle though. if the player needs to expand in that direction, they'll probably have to take down the facility.
Quote from: Orion on June 12, 2015, 03:28:39 AM
Actually, I haven't. But that's not a bad idea. I'll take a look how they solved some things.
Happy to help, make sure to update us on how that goes.
Quote from: Orion on June 05, 2015, 03:48:55 AM
Quote from: AllenWL on June 03, 2015, 03:35:12 AM
What if mechanoids had 'thoughts'?
I was actually contemplating doing it like that. But the implementational difficulties were overwhelming (not that they weren't for any other part of this mod, but you have to make choices), since you can't just turn off the thoughts of "normal people".
I was thinking about this, but prisoners don't get cabin fever or joy needs(and in extension, joy-related thoughts), right?
Could something like that be used? Like get rid of their need for rest/food/space/etc to make them not get thoughts? I mean, they can't think 'cramped space' or 'hungy' if they have no need for space or food right?
Quote from: AllenWL on June 13, 2015, 01:50:58 AM
I was thinking about this, but prisoners don't get cabin fever or joy needs(and in extension, joy-related thoughts), right?
Good thinking, but I've been down that road already. There's this hardcoded section:
private bool ShouldHaveNeed(NeedDef nd)
{
...
return (nd != NeedDefOf.Joy || this.pawn.JailerFaction == null) && (!nd.colonistAndPrisonersOnly || (this.pawn.Faction != null && this.pawn.Faction.def == FactionDefOf.Colony) || (this.pawn.JailerFaction != null && this.pawn.JailerFaction == Faction.OfColony));
}What it means is that if the character is a prisoner, he won't have joy. Preferably I'd just add a need "Maintenance" and "Charging" and add some activities for getting those, but while easy on paper, it's close to impossible in code :-\
Quote from: Scottnov on June 12, 2015, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: Orion on June 12, 2015, 03:28:39 AM
Actually, I haven't. But that's not a bad idea. I'll take a look how they solved some things.
Happy to help, make sure to update us on how that goes.
Okay, I checked how mechanical defense did it and ... they just didn't. Instead of using the mood / needs tab they use the lower left status box to display the battery level of the droids.
So I think I'll stick with not having any needs (apart from repair) for now.
Alpha 10 version
Finally, I've managed to convert the mod to A10. PAL is gone now, though. I tried to test it as much as possible, but if you spot any problems, please let me know (and include a screenshot of the detailed error message, or your output_log.txt).
Have fun!
... now off to fix A11 ...
Quote from: Orion on June 13, 2015, 05:14:23 PM
Alpha 10 version
Finally, I've managed to convert the mod to A10. PAL is gone now, though. I tried to test it as much as possible, but if you spot any problems, please let me know (and include a screenshot of the detailed error message, or your output_log.txt).
Have fun!
... now off to fix A11 ...
Awesome! I'm gonna go install and subsequently test it now, finally Army of One shall rise from his metal prison and join his subjects on the field.
Quote from: Orion on June 13, 2015, 10:52:51 AM
Okay, I checked how mechanical defense did it and ... they just didn't. Instead of using the mood / needs tab they use the lower left status box to display the battery level of the droids.
So I think I'll stick with not having any needs (apart from repair) for now.
Huh, interesting. Hopefully they implement custom needs into modding support in the future.
Also, I had a thought, this mod seems more about improving on mechanoids as a concept in general. While I'm not asking you to change it since you are the creator of the mod, wouldn't a name like "Mechanoids+" or "Enhanced Mechanoids" be more fitting?
Edit: Alright, I just revived Army of One. As it turns out, HE is actually a SHE. Who woulda thought? But that's beside the point, I have a few questions:
1. Can all mechanoids not fight at all? I haven't gotten to test if they fight in self defense, but seeing as how that's their primary function when you first see them, it might should either be a re-purposing option or an upgrade since I can understand them not being able to fight always or at least not well for balancing reasons.
2. Adding onto what's above, I think, if possible, they should not come equipped with a weapon when they start out. It should probably be an upgrade, but for now it's fine.
3. More of a suggestion than a question, but what if colonists gained a different mood bonus for talking to mechanoids? One that's either slightly higher or lower than talking to a human and has flavor text like "I talked to that robot that we have work around here. What an interesting little tin can." or something like that.
4. Colonists should automatically repair mechanoids when they need it, but you should have the option to repair them fully at any time. Colonists never fully repair a mechanoid, they only repair the more heavily damaged parts. Another workaround might be making repairs an operation, which will, with some time (and later the right parts), fully repair the mechanoid.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 13, 2015, 05:22:05 PM
Also, I had a thought, this mod seems more about improving on mechanoids as a concept in general. While I'm not asking you to change it since you are the creator of the mod, wouldn't a name like "Mechanoids+" or "Enhanced Mechanoids" be more fitting?
I could call it that. But the way I saw it is that it just puts more emphasize on the Mechanoids aspect, for those who like it. So you get "more mechanoid stuff", so to speak.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 13, 2015, 05:22:05 PM
1. Can all mechanoids not fight at all?
Correct, although some might fight back if you try to decommission them. If you want some lore behind it, I'd say the colonists purposely take the fighting aspect of the AI out, since they're scared shitless to have these things turn against them (again). Think Doctor Who with "friendly" Daleks running around his house.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 13, 2015, 05:22:05 PM
2. Adding onto what's above, I think, if possible, they should not come equipped with a weapon when they start out. It should probably be an upgrade, but for now it's fine.
True. I skimmed on that detail for the sake of getting it done faster.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 13, 2015, 05:22:05 PM
3. More of a suggestion than a question, but what if colonists gained a different mood bonus for talking to mechanoids? One that's either slightly higher or lower than talking to a human and has flavor text like "I talked to that robot that we have work around here. What an interesting little tin can." or something like that.
I was thinking that too. Maybe even have a personality trait for liking/disliking them and getting a positive / negative buff for having them around.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 13, 2015, 05:22:05 PM
4. Colonists should automatically repair mechanoids when they need it, but you should have the option to repair them fully at any time. Colonists never fully repair a mechanoid, they only repair the more heavily damaged parts. Another workaround might be making repairs an operation, which will, with some time (and later the right parts), fully repair the mechanoid.
Right now indeed they only fix what needs fixing the most. A "total repair" button is a good idea. Then the mechanoid would go into standby and a colonist would repair everything that is damaged. I'm curious how that'll be once spare parts are part of the equation.
Changelog
1.04a - 14.06.2015
I've implemented your suggestion of a "full repair". Now you can just set a mechanoid to full repair and he'll stop and wait until he's fixed up. Also, in full repair mode colonists are going to fix every little dent.
Quote from: Orion on June 14, 2015, 04:48:39 AM
Correct, although some might fight back if you try to decommission them. If you want some lore behind it, I'd say the colonists purposely take the fighting aspect of the AI out, since they're scared shitless to have these things turn against them (again). Think Doctor Who with "friendly" Daleks running around his house.
Seems logical, I definitely think there needs to be a way for them to fight through upgrades/research somehow, though. I mean, obviously it can't come cheap, since having an army of pretty much immortal soldiers that are more durable than the strongest of humans would not exactly be what you'd call 'balanced'.
EDIT: I just had a thought; what if the ability to do combat was a mid-to-late tier upgrade, but each time it is applied to a new mechanoid there is a small chance (around 5% or so) that that mechanoid's old function will "re-awaken" and the mechanoid would go around acting like any old "wild" mechanoid?
Quote from: Orion on June 14, 2015, 04:48:39 AM
True. I skimmed on that detail for the sake of getting it done faster.
S'fine, I probably would have done the same.
Quote from: Orion on June 14, 2015, 04:48:39 AM
I was thinking that too. Maybe even have a personality trait for liking/disliking them and getting a positive / negative buff for having them around.
That'd be pretty cool. If possible maybe it should depend on their backstories and skills, ex: a mechanoid nerd with high repair and research would love talking to one, while a tribal with opposite stats would not enjoy talking to one.
Quote from: Orion on June 14, 2015, 04:48:39 AM
Right now indeed they only fix what needs fixing the most. A "total repair" button is a good idea. Then the mechanoid would go into standby and a colonist would repair everything that is damaged. I'm curious how that'll be once spare parts are part of the equation.
Quote from: Orion on June 14, 2015, 02:54:28 PM
Changelog
1.04a - 14.06.2015
I've implemented your suggestion of a "full repair". Now you can just set a mechanoid to full repair and he'll stop and wait until he's fixed up. Also, in full repair mode colonists are going to fix every little dent.
I appreciate it!
EDIT: Something else I thought of is the option to zone an area for mechanoids specifically to rest in. Mostly so I can make Army of One sleep in her tomb, but also to create "workshops" where they can easily be repaired from a single place.
EDIT #2: I recently repurposed a Crawler who I affectionately called "BUD-E", however, BUD-E seems to be very ineffective in most respects because he can only go for about a minute before he needs full repairs. Because of the low HP of crawler parts, even taking a single point of deterioration damage increases crash chance dramatically. Maybe either make them get a much smaller gain to crash chance when a part starts to deteriorate or make parts deteriorate much slower on crawlers.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 14, 2015, 05:10:45 PM
Seems logical, I definitely think there needs to be a way for them to fight through upgrades/research somehow, though. I mean, obviously it can't come cheap, since having an army of pretty much immortal soldiers that are more durable than the strongest of humans would not exactly be what you'd call 'balanced'.
EDIT: I just had a thought; what if the ability to do combat was a mid-to-late tier upgrade, but each time it is applied to a new mechanoid there is a small chance (around 5% or so) that that mechanoid's old function will "re-awaken" and the mechanoid would go around acting like any old "wild" mechanoid?
Could work. Although this sort of gamble probably will either keep people from using the feature entirely, or get rather annoyed when it actually happens. Both not a desirable outcome.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 14, 2015, 05:10:45 PM
That'd be pretty cool. If possible maybe it should depend on their backstories and skills, ex: a mechanoid nerd with high repair and research
would love talking to one, while a tribal with opposite stats would not enjoy talking to one.
I wouldn't really know how to do that. The normal backstories have these things hardcoded. I think I can only make it random.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 14, 2015, 05:10:45 PM
EDIT: Something else I thought of is the option to zone an area for mechanoids specifically to rest in. Mostly so I can make Army of One sleep in her tomb, but also to create "workshops" where they can easily be repaired from a single place.
I'm rather against having zones for "menial" purposes, since they complicate how the game works. What would work, though, is that just like the droids you can build restplaces for them. Although I think right now it gives them more personality that they pick their own favorite spots to rest.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 14, 2015, 05:10:45 PM
EDIT #2: I recently repurposed a Crawler who I affectionately called "BUD-E", however, BUD-E seems to be very ineffective in most respects because he can only go for about a minute before he needs full repairs. Because of the low HP of crawler parts, even taking a single point of deterioration damage increases crash chance dramatically. Maybe either make them get a much smaller gain to crash chance when a part starts to deteriorate or make parts deteriorate much slower on crawlers.
Actually they already gain less damage, but not proportionally less. The crawlers, with their fast speed and tasks colonists never get around to are by far the most useful, so they need to be nerfed accordingly. Maybe just a little less, we'll see :)
Quote from: Orion on June 15, 2015, 02:49:53 PM
Could work. Although this sort of gamble probably will either keep people from using the feature entirely, or get rather annoyed when it actually happens. Both not a desirable outcome.
Maybe, though the low chance for it to happen is already one "wall" to prevent that. Additionally, as long as you aren't repurposing several mechanoids at a time, a single, likely unarmed (unless you gave it a weapon before upgrading it) mechanoid probably wouldn't be able to do enough damage for it to really matter long term.
Quote from: Orion on June 15, 2015, 02:49:53 PM
I wouldn't really know how to do that. The normal backstories have these things hardcoded. I think I can only make it random.
Aw. Traits it is, then, I suppose.
Quote from: Orion on June 15, 2015, 02:49:53 PM
I'm rather against having zones for "menial" purposes, since they complicate how the game works. What would work, though, is that just like the droids you can build restplaces for them. Although I think right now it gives them more personality that they pick their own favorite spots to rest.
That's a good reason for not wanting to. It does give them more personality, though it's a little annoying when they go sleep in some random guy's room or in the freezer.
Quote from: Orion on June 15, 2015, 02:49:53 PM
Actually they already gain less damage, but not proportionally less. The crawlers, with their fast speed and tasks colonists never get around to are by far the most useful, so they need to be nerfed accordingly. Maybe just a little less, we'll see :)
True. The random damage applied to parts seems to be the biggest issue here, since their gear box can lose a single point and they're up 33%, while a bit of damage to the leg gives around 11%. I guess that's just part of the challenge though, so you never know when they'll need repairs.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 15, 2015, 05:53:29 PM
Maybe, though the low chance for it to happen is already one "wall" to prevent that. Additionally, as long as you aren't repurposing several mechanoids at a time, a single, likely unarmed (unless you gave it a weapon before upgrading it) mechanoid probably wouldn't be able to do enough damage for it to really matter long term.
I do think if the chance is very low, people are even less prepared for it and feel cheated if it happens. Right now if the mechanoids are being damaged the chance that they go rogue on you is pretty high. And if you have a lot of malfunctioning mechanoids the chance one of them damages itself is pretty high. I nerfed them quite a bit when they're rogue, so they not only catch themselves again eventually, but also constantly shut down. After one scyther singlehandedly wiped out half my base from the inside (mostly using the claws), including all prisoners, I felt this made more sense that if the mechanoid is broken it also can't be flawlessly evil.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 15, 2015, 05:53:29 PM
That's a good reason for not wanting to. It does give them more personality, though it's a little annoying when they go sleep in some random guy's room or in the freezer.
Fair point. I could tell them not to stand in zones, that'd exclude the freezer (although they like how safe and cold it is there). Random guy's room would be harder. Unless I give them a dislike for beds, which is a rather expensive calculation I'd rather avoid. So maybe resting pads. Maybe.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 15, 2015, 05:53:29 PM
True. The random damage applied to parts seems to be the biggest issue here, since their gear box can lose a single point and they're up 33%, while a bit of damage to the leg gives around 11%. I guess that's just part of the challenge though, so you never know when they'll need repairs.
Hm. I could lower the threshold for automatic fixing, but then your repair guys will be constantly busy running after your mechanoids. Maybe I can adjust the random damage range for small parts a bit.
Quote from: Orion on June 17, 2015, 03:24:01 AM
I do think if the chance is very low, people are even less prepared for it and feel cheated if it happens. Right now if the mechanoids are being damaged the chance that they go rogue on you is pretty high. And if you have a lot of malfunctioning mechanoids the chance one of them damages itself is pretty high. I nerfed them quite a bit when they're rogue, so they not only catch themselves again eventually, but also constantly shut down. After one scyther singlehandedly wiped out half my base from the inside (mostly using the claws), including all prisoners, I felt this made more sense that if the mechanoid is broken it also can't be flawlessly evil.
Firstly, that's true, though if you're especially worried about it you could get some drafted soldiers in the room or maybe even set up some turrets. But hold on, mechanoids can go rogue on you at the moment? How, exactly?
Well, anyway, although they might feel less prepared, they have to keep in mind they're basically trying to teach a lion that it's actually a sheep here; it's pretty hard, and therefore you should probably always be watching out when your mechanoid is having a combat upgrade installed. I dunno, I still just feel like mechanoids need some way to help out in battle since that seems like their primary function. I'll write down a potential method of implementing balanced and simple enough combat-based mechanoids soon and post it here, and see what you think.
Also, misc. question here, but what exactly did you imagine the Crawlers looking like? I mean, if they actually existed and you could see them, what would they be like? From their health menu they sure seem to have a lot of interesting parts, I didn't expect them to have an antenna.
Quote from: Orion on June 17, 2015, 03:24:01 AM
Hm. I could lower the threshold for automatic fixing, but then your repair guys will be constantly busy running after your mechanoids. Maybe I can adjust the random damage range for small parts a bit.
Yeah, I feel like parts should be damaged slowly in a specific order, too. Like for a crawler, the shell would have to deteriorate a bit before the core & gear box could. Not sure if that's an option though.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 17, 2015, 05:54:22 AM
But hold on, mechanoids can go rogue on you at the moment? How, exactly?
It's using the same mechanism as with animals going berserk. If you damage your mechanoid (e.g. it explodes from a malfunction) there is a good chance it will rampage for a bit.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 17, 2015, 05:54:22 AM
I'll write down a potential method of implementing balanced and simple enough combat-based mechanoids soon and post it here, and see what you think.
I'm curious!
Quote from: Scottnov on June 17, 2015, 05:54:22 AM
Also, misc. question here, but what exactly did you imagine the Crawlers looking like?
Something along these lines, but then with the typical mechanoid shell around it.
(http://www.thisiscolossal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/arth-2.jpg)
Quote from: Scottnov on June 17, 2015, 05:54:22 AM
Yeah, I feel like parts should be damaged slowly in a specific order, too. Like for a crawler, the shell would have to deteriorate a bit before the core & gear box could. Not sure if that's an option though.
It's possible, although I do think internal mechanical parts and electric components are also suffering from usage. And then it's pretty much everything again. I could implement a list of priorities for damage, but it'd be a lot of work per mechanoid type and I just don't see it worth the time, I could better spend on updates or actual fun features.
This is a totally random thing, but I think the crawler's plasma cutter should be changed to 'crawler claw' or something like that. I just don't know how a crawler can haul and clean with a plasma cutter, but not cut plants.
On a separate note, if wounded mechanoids go berserk, you could, in theory, use them for combat by sending a bunch out to raiders, and having them go berserk and attack them when hurt, right?
Frankly though, if I where the colonists, I wouldn't want to use mechanoids for battle all that much. Maybe strap explosives to crawlers and scythers as suicide bombers, or a centipede with weapons removed acting as a mobile wall, but actually fighting next to me with guns when a single bullet might make our makeshift programming malfunction? No thanks. And suicide bombing seems a bit of a waste to use them for.
Maybe if we really dumbed them down, leaving only the very basic things needed for combat, and/or gave them weak weapons, I might feel safer.
On a totally random note, I was thinking it would be really cool if we could attach mechanoids to colonists.
I'm just imagining a guy with a crawler on his right arm, a scyther-exoskeleton around him, centipede armor plates on his face and chest, and a flamebot attached to his left hand. Probably impractical as heck to do, but it's cool to think about it.
Quote from: Orion on June 18, 2015, 04:08:48 AM
It's using the same mechanism as with animals going berserk. If you damage your mechanoid (e.g. it explodes from a malfunction) there is a good chance it will rampage for a bit.
Ahh. I guess I shouldn't have to worry about my colony's lord and master using her bare hands to kill pretty much everyone because she got bitten by a squirrel once. Not much, anyway.
Quote from: Orion on June 18, 2015, 04:08:48 AM
I'm curious!
Alright, I'm gonna write it down here now, it's pretty long so I'm gonna make a pastebin for it, please read it whenever ya' got the time. I might also include a tl;dr at the bottom for the basic gist but I encourage people to read the entire thing. A large majority of it is simply explaining how upgrades work and flavor text, so it probably isn't as big you'd think. You'll have to tell me how difficult some of these things would be to implement of course, since I wouldn't really know. Also, I created a diagram for the research tree, which may be helpful if you ever get confused.
The paste: http://pastebin.com/cGv19v3Z
The diagram: http://i.imgur.com/t8VHl36.png
(Also, thanks to AllenWL for helping me realize that mechanoids that can go berserk so easily would not be effective on the battlefield, it improved my suggestion here)
I like the ideas, though a few things I would like to add is:
I think AI should have a higher 'level' then upgrades. For example, before you could go fiddling with AI and giving them new programming, you'd first have to research other parts and have a better understanding of the mechanoids.
So instead of mechanoid reprogramming-> Behaviors->Other, it would go in a order more like
Reprogramming-> Mechanical upgrades-> Advanced AI.
The reason I think this is because
1. A balance reason. Mechanoids are a very strong unit, able to soak up much more damage then colonists, and also deal a scary amount of damage. A scyther can easily destroy the torso of a colonist in a few hits, and a centipede can easily one-shot colonists with purely melee attacks. I've seen them take out multiple colonists simply by meleeing them and still be ready to fight some more. Getting into melee with mechanoids can easily get you killed, since they deal much more damage, and can withstand much more damage. A commandable mechanoid, even if they can only melee at 70% speed, would be a powerful asset to your colony, and devastating at ambushes. I feel it's too powerful a ability to be gotten so quickly, especially since research is easy. Find a good researcher, and even something with 2500 research points can be unlocked in but a few weeks, if not days.
2. A storyline/'logic' reason. I think that fiddling with dangerous AI is not a good idea without a basic understanding of what's going on. Sure, we can make them do simple jobs, but even that takes research, and more importantly, it's a unfinished tech that has lots of drawbacks and needs constant maintenance.
If we wanted to play with more advanced things, I feel it's only right that we would first improve the hardware before the software. If we where still using the 1940's ENIAC, we won't be able to use anything like the software we have now, right?
It only seems fitting that before we give our mechanoids better software, we need to upgrade the hardware with things like better cooling, better gears, better chips, etc to let them handle the advanced AI before we give them the advanced AI.
Incompatible/complementing/required upgrades.
For example, a combat AI would be incompatible with a work AI, but need a cooler upgrade to prevent overheating.
I feel this is needed to prevent one mechanoid from being a solution for all things. A mechanoid should be used for work or combat, but not both.
So upgrades should be split into 'work' 'combat' and 'upgrades/modules/add-ons'
Hmm, maybe research could be
mechanoid reconstruction->basic AI, basic parts->advanced AI, advanced parts?
Finally, this is just me, but I don't think 'urasteel hull' is a good name for the upgrade. Maybe 'mechanoid hull' or 'advanced mechanoid hull', but not 'urasteel hull'. I just think we shouldn't be bringing in brand-new metal types.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 20, 2015, 03:14:34 AM
I like the ideas, though a few things I would like to add is:
I think AI should have a higher 'level' then upgrades. For example, before you could go fiddling with AI and giving them new programming, you'd first have to research other parts and have a better understanding of the mechanoids.
So instead of mechanoid reprogramming-> Behaviors->Other, it would go in a order more like
Reprogramming-> Mechanical upgrades-> Advanced AI.
The reason I think this is because
1. A balance reason. Mechanoids are a very strong unit, able to soak up much more damage then colonists, and also deal a scary amount of damage. A scyther can easily destroy the torso of a colonist in a few hits, and a centipede can easily one-shot colonists with purely melee attacks. I've seen them take out multiple colonists simply by meleeing them and still be ready to fight some more. Getting into melee with mechanoids can easily get you killed, since they deal much more damage, and can withstand much more damage. A commandable mechanoid, even if they can only melee at 70% speed, would be a powerful asset to your colony, and devastating at ambushes. I feel it's too powerful a ability to be gotten so quickly, especially since research is easy. Find a good researcher, and even something with 2500 research points can be unlocked in but a few weeks, if not days.
2. A storyline/'logic' reason. I think that fiddling with dangerous AI is not a good idea without a basic understanding of what's going on. Sure, we can make them do simple jobs, but even that takes research, and more importantly, it's a unfinished tech that has lots of drawbacks and needs constant maintenance.
If we wanted to play with more advanced things, I feel it's only right that we would first improve the hardware before the software. If we where still using the 1940's ENIAC, we won't be able to use anything like the software we have now, right?
It only seems fitting that before we give our mechanoids better software, we need to upgrade the hardware with things like better cooling, better gears, better chips, etc to let them handle the advanced AI before we give them the advanced AI.
This could work, yeah. You need to remember, though, that as mechanoids take damage they crash more frequently, which is absolutely devastating to the mechanoid if it happens during a crucial moment. Additionally centipedes aren't currently adoptable but I imagine that'll change later. There's also the upkeep for actually making effective battle mechanoids, having to first have enough materials to actually make the upgrades + having the crafting skill and then the fear of having your mechanoids die and losing precious resources due to lost upgrades.
I do LIKE the idea of having to upgrade your mechanoids mechanically first, but I'm not sure how difficult that would be to implement alongside the AI upgrades, additionally I feel like mechanoids already have top-tier hardware, but who knows, maybe the design has become outdated, especially since the mechanoid hives probably haven't updated their designs much. Overall I support the idea though.
If possible, a way to make mechanoids balanced at any time would be good, since eventually obtaining a robot army, even very lategame, would definitely make you significantly stronger if not unbeatable. An idea I just had is maybe having a cap to the amount of mechanoids you can own at a time, with it starting at a really low number (like 2 or 3, maybe?) but with enough upgrades you can get it up to about 8-10. A PAL-like system but much less complicated could probably work for this, but Orion would probably be the judge of that and not me, since the last PAL didn't turn out so well.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 20, 2015, 03:14:34 AM
Finally, this is just me, but I don't think 'urasteel hull' is a good name for the upgrade. Maybe 'mechanoid hull' or 'advanced mechanoid hull', but not 'urasteel hull'. I just think we shouldn't be bringing in brand-new metal types.
I mean... I don't think it matters too much overall. While I do like "Advanced Mechanoid Hull" as an alternative, the current name of the upgrade is there to provide a bit more flavor. But maybe.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 20, 2015, 04:10:26 AM
I do LIKE the idea of having to upgrade your mechanoids mechanically first, but I'm not sure how difficult that would be to implement alongside the AI upgrades, additionally I feel like mechanoids already have top-tier hardware, but who knows, maybe the design has become outdated, especially since the mechanoid hives probably haven't updated their designs much. Overall I support the idea though.
Well, I felt that the reason for frequent mechanoid malfunctions, on top of poorly programmed overwrites and it's original want for slaughter, was poor hardware.
I mean, we did just shoot, burn, shred, and otherwise demolish the things, then left it sitting in the mod before we actually got to repairing the thing, and to top it all, we don't really know how to make these things. The mechanoids that attack us would have top-tier hardware, but the ones we use would have busted up, poorly patched makeshift hardware. Not exactly the best thing for a high-tech AI.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 20, 2015, 04:10:26 AM
I mean... I don't think it matters too much overall. While I do like "Advanced Mechanoid Hull" as an alternative, the current name of the upgrade is there to provide a bit more flavor. But maybe.
It's just that it kinda feels odd to me that we would be able to make a brand-new alloy, but only be able to make it for mechanoids, and on a machining table to boot.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 20, 2015, 06:45:27 AM
Well, I felt that the reason for frequent mechanoid malfunctions, on top of poorly programmed overwrites and it's original want for slaughter, was poor hardware.
I mean, we did just shoot, burn, shred, and otherwise demolish the things, then left it sitting in the mod before we actually got to repairing the thing, and to top it all, we don't really know how to make these things. The mechanoids that attack us would have top-tier hardware, but the ones we use would have busted up, poorly patched makeshift hardware. Not exactly the best thing for a high-tech AI.
That's a good point. Then, I support the idea. Still unsure of how difficult it would be to implement, but I guess it could just be done piece by piece, maybe the hardware upgrades aren't as numerous as AI and advanced hardware upgrades. Also I imagine basic hardware upgrades probably don't add any bonuses to a mechanoid's stats, right? I feel like AI upgrades and advanced hardware upgrades would just be a "class" for upgrades rather than in a seperate tree, with the current tree I have being left as it is. Tweaking would need to be done to my suggestion after this, though probably not too much since I'll mostly just be putting in the hardware upgrades. I'll probably work on it soon.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 20, 2015, 06:45:27 AM
It's just that it kinda feels odd to me that we would be able to make a brand-new alloy, but only be able to make it for mechanoids, and on a machining table to boot.
Fair point - why couldn't we make spaceship hulls out of this alloy? I suppose "Advanced Mechanoid Hull" would have to do.
I read all the stuff you guys wrote and I do like the general notion. My idea for the mechanoids was to exploit the inventory / clothing system to upgrade the mechanoids. So where I want to go is that when you chip a mechanoid, you don't choose a function yet - it just makes it stand around, essentially. Then you can plop in a function chip (given that it's compatible with the mechanoid type) and possibly various upgrades that have been researched.
Implementing extra research items is indeed not very difficult. The trouble lies in the effects of the research / chip. For some things, like changing existing stats, it's no problem. For new things it will be more work (sometimes significantly / unpredictably much more).
Since both of you seem to have some pretty good ideas and strong motivation for this, I hereby extend the offer to help me with the mod and temporarily share ownership of the mod. I don't have much time for it, so for example someone to plan / test / balance research and upgrades would be very helpful. Also someone to take care of the corresponding XML files just as well.
There are also several new mechanoid types in the pipe that Joey has prepared. Adding some more of them would also be a lot of work but add a lot to the mod. So that'd be a question of prioritization - upgrades or new mechanoid types?
And of course there's also the neverending task of upgrading to the latest version of RimWorld.
On the idea of limiting the amount of mechanoids: Since PAL is gone, I don't want to add a rigid limit to the amount, but rather make the player dependent on spare parts that are not always easy to find / expensive to create / needed in large quantities. So the amount of (functioning) mechanoids a player can have is limited by his supply of spare parts to keep fixing them up.
If he runs out of them, he'll soon have lots of piles of junk standing around the corners of his base. And the obvious source of new parts are mechanoid raids - so with increasingly tougher raids the players capacity for more mechanoids increases as well. A natural balancing mechanism.
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
I read all the stuff you guys wrote and I do like the general notion. My idea for the mechanoids was to exploit the inventory / clothing system to upgrade the mechanoids. So where I want to go is that when you chip a mechanoid, you don't choose a function yet - it just makes it stand around, essentially. Then you can plop in a function chip (given that it's compatible with the mechanoid type) and possibly various upgrades that have been researched.
Ahh, I see. That works too. The ideas I had for upgrade trees seems to fit in well still, but of course changes can be applied if necessary.
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
Implementing extra research items is indeed not very difficult. The trouble lies in the effects of the research / chip. For some things, like changing existing stats, it's no problem. For new things it will be more work (sometimes significantly / unpredictably much more).
Hm, if adding new things seems to be the problem, you can always check and see how other modders did similar things, which may or may not be helpful.
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
Since both of you seem to have some pretty good ideas and strong motivation for this, I hereby extend the offer to help me with the mod and temporarily share ownership of the mod. I don't have much time for it, so for example someone to plan / test / balance research and upgrades would be very helpful. Also someone to take care of the corresponding XML files just as well.
I'd be glad to help in any way that I can! What exactly do you mean by temporary ownership and to take care of corresponding files though?
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
There are also several new mechanoid types in the pipe that Joey has prepared. Adding some more of them would also be a lot of work but add a lot to the mod. So that'd be a question of prioritization - upgrades or new mechanoid types?
Personally, I'd say upgrades. Though we could take votes if that sounds more appealing. Though perhaps new mechanoid types should be added first to avoid any potential extra work with upgrades later, if that's how it works anyway.
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
And of course there's also the neverending task of upgrading to the latest version of RimWorld.
Ah yes, that task. It would be helpful if there was another programmer to help that go faster, but it seems that won't be the case for now. I'd say updating it to the newest version should be the primary goal at the moment so the mod doesn't lag behind.
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
On the idea of limiting the amount of mechanoids: Since PAL is gone, I don't want to add a rigid limit to the amount, but rather make the player dependent on spare parts that are not always easy to find / expensive to create / needed in large quantities. So the amount of (functioning) mechanoids a player can have is limited by his supply of spare parts to keep fixing them up.
If he runs out of them, he'll soon have lots of piles of junk standing around the corners of his base. And the obvious source of new parts are mechanoid raids - so with increasingly tougher raids the players capacity for more mechanoids increases as well. A natural balancing mechanism.
That seems like a pretty good solution. Will spare parts just be called "Spare parts" or something, or will they have individual names?
Quote from: Scottnov on June 21, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Hm, if adding new things seems to be the problem, you can always check and see how other modders did similar things, which may or may not be helpful.
It's less handy than you'd think it is. Usually the best source is to see how it's done in Rimworld itself.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 21, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
Since both of you seem to have some pretty good ideas and strong motivation for this, I hereby extend the offer to help me with the mod and temporarily share ownership of the mod. [..]
I'd be glad to help in any way that I can! What exactly do you mean by temporary ownership and to take care of corresponding files though?
Temporary ownership would mean a say in the direction where the mod goes, and of course the responsibility to push things forward where possible.
If you open the mod folder, apart from source and assemblies, which is the programming part, there are countless XML files that configure things like research, items, etc. I find it rather time consuming to spend more time on them than necessary. But that is how you add more research. So apart from the actual effect you could set everything up yourself.
You would need to get familiar with Mercurial, either via SourceTree or command-line, should that be your thing). It's used for version control and helps greatly when working with multiple people on the same files.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 21, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
[..] - upgrades or new mechanoid types?
Personally, I'd say upgrades. Though we could take votes if that sounds more appealing. Though perhaps new mechanoid types should be added first to avoid any potential extra work with upgrades later, if that's how it works anyway.
I generally try to keep it as generic as possible, so adding new types after upgrades should not be more work and the other way around.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 21, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
I'd say updating it to the newest version should be the primary goal at the moment so the mod doesn't lag behind.
Yes, definitely. I did add some stuff for the A10 version because as opposed to updating that is actually an enjoyable task and I needed a break from the whole update process.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 21, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Will spare parts just be called "Spare parts" or something, or will they have individual names?
Not sure yet. I think it comes down on testing what's nicer. I do think different kinds with different ways of acquisition would be interesting. But I'm not sure yet how best to communicate to the player what he needs. I think when a mechanoid is severely broken, the broken part will display "Part missing: Thingamabob", and can't be fixed until the player has the part in question. Possibly, with rare parts the player actually has to perform an operation (so he has the choice which mechanoid to use it on), while there should be a more generic one that can be manufactured and will be used autonomously. This would also be the one I implement first.
Quote from: Orion on June 22, 2015, 03:05:12 AM
It's less handy than you'd think it is. Usually the best source is to see how it's done in Rimworld itself.
I see, I suppose another problem would actually be FINDING a mod which does something similar to what you're trying to do.
Quote from: Orion on June 22, 2015, 03:05:12 AM
Temporary ownership would mean a say in the direction where the mod goes, and of course the responsibility to push things forward where possible.
If you open the mod folder, apart from source and assemblies, which is the programming part, there are countless XML files that configure things like research, items, etc. I find it rather time consuming to spend more time on them than necessary. But that is how you add more research. So apart from the actual effect you could set everything up yourself.
As for temporary ownership, if you think I'm up to the task I sure will try, though I'm not entirely sure how useful I will be. And as for creating research projects, I've said before several times that I have no knowledge of C# coding, but I guess I'll try to figure something out. I'll probably post my findings and creations here.
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
You would need to get familiar with Mercurial, either via SourceTree or command-line, should that be your thing). It's used for version control and helps greatly when working with multiple people on the same files.
I'll look into it.
Quote from: Scottnov on June 21, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Yes, definitely. I did add some stuff for the A10 version because as opposed to updating that is actually an enjoyable task and I needed a break from the whole update process.
Yeeeaaah, I can see how updating it to the latest version would be boring. Implementing things that you find interesting or that you made yourself is exciting because you'll get to see it work later in-game; updating to the latest version just makes the game actually turn on when you have the mod installed.
Quote from: Orion on June 22, 2015, 03:05:12 AM
Not sure yet. I think it comes down on testing what's nicer. I do think different kinds with different ways of acquisition would be interesting. But I'm not sure yet how best to communicate to the player what he needs. I think when a mechanoid is severely broken, the broken part will display "Part missing: Thingamabob", and can't be fixed until the player has the part in question. Possibly, with rare parts the player actually has to perform an operation (so he has the choice which mechanoid to use it on), while there should be a more generic one that can be manufactured and will be used autonomously. This would also be the one I implement first.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Mechanoids should also be able to apply "lesser" parts to themself, lesser parts being parts which don't cause deactivation if gone or heavily damaged (think WALL-E).
I don't know your technical skills but I'm sure willing to give it a shot. I mostly need someone to take care of some planning (like you did for the research) and the handling of the related XML files. For research it's pretty straight forward. Check the file ResearchProjects_Mechanoids.xml in Mods/MoreMechanoids/Defs/ResearchProjectDefs.
<ResearchProjectDef>
<defName>MechanoidReprogramming</defName> // Internal name of the research (must be unique)
<label>mechanoid reprogramming</label> // Displayed name
<description>Learn to craft AI chips at the machining table that allow you to repurpose destroyed mechanoids. Actual reprogramming will require further research.</description> // Description before researching
<descriptionDiscovered>You can now create AI chips at the machining table. Perform further research to discover how to use it on different mechanoid types.</descriptionDiscovered> // Description after finishing research
<totalCost>1000</totalCost>
<prerequisites>
<li>Machining</li> // Research that has to be completed before, can be more than one (li = list)
</prerequisites>
<researchMods>
<li><specialAction>MoreMechanoids.UnlockResearch.CreateMechanoidChip</specialAction></li> // What happens when the research is done. In this case, run the action "CreateMechanoidChip" in the "UnlockResearch" section of "MoreMechanoids".
</researchMods>
</ResearchProjectDef>
As you can see, every tag, like <ResearchProjectDef> has a matching closing tag, like </ResearchProjectDef>. The // are meant to be comments that I just added and are actually not valid in XML. In XML comments look like this: <!-- comment --> and can span multiple lines.
Obviously meticulous attention to detail is required with these files. If a tag is misspelled (capitalization matters too) it will not work and RimWorld will show some kind of (usually seemingly unrelated) error when you start it. As an editor for xml files I am using Notepad++. It's free and works well enough. But if you find something better that's cool too.
Now what I generally find tedious is taking care of the matching language defs. They're required in case someone wants to create a localization. At this point there is only an outdated Korean one, which I obviously can't fix myself ;)
With the research example, there's a matching file ResearchProjects_Mechanoids.xml in Mods/MoreMechanoids/Languages/DefInjected/ResearchProjectDef.
Here the entry looks like this:
<MechanoidReprogramming.label>mechanoid reprogramming</MechanoidReprogramming.label> // overwrites the label for MechanoidReprogramming
<MechanoidReprogramming.description>Learn to craft AI chips at the machining table that allow you to repurpose destroyed mechanoids. Actual reprogramming will require further research.</MechanoidReprogramming.description> // overwrites description
<MechanoidReprogramming.descriptionDiscovered>You can now create AI chips at the machining table. Perform further research to discover how to use it on different mechanoid types.</MechanoidReprogramming.descriptionDiscovered>
Basically it's just a copy of the original text - it overwrites it when this language is active. If any other language is active, the original text will be used, so it's important that that one is the same.
So if you're willing to tackle this, I think we can best take further instructions to direct messaging. If you think this is too much to handle, do tell me. Obviously, in order to actually save me some time, you'll need to dig up a lot of information yourself about how some things work. But when you're stuck, let me know.
Quote from: Orion on June 23, 2015, 03:19:54 AM
I don't know your technical skills but I'm sure willing to give it a shot.
Only thing I've ever actually made anything in (and nothing complicated) is in Python, which I was taking a class for. Because of that, I'm able to understand and pick up concepts from other languages easier. Aside from that, I've had a bit of experience in lua, although that's mostly from just looking at Don't Starve files and trying to understand them.
Quote from: Orion on June 23, 2015, 03:19:54 AM
I mostly need someone to take care of some planning (like you did for the research) and the handling of the related XML files. For research it's pretty straight forward. Check the file ResearchProjects_Mechanoids.xml in Mods/MoreMechanoids/Defs/ResearchProjectDefs.
(codespeak.exe)
Yeah, that seems simple enough. I mostly seem to be "altering templates" here if you will.
Quote from: Orion on June 23, 2015, 03:19:54 AM
As you can see, every tag, like <ResearchProjectDef> has a matching closing tag, like </ResearchProjectDef>. The // are meant to be comments that I just added and are actually not valid in XML. In XML comments look like this: <!-- comment --> and can span multiple lines.
Obviously meticulous attention to detail is required with these files. If a tag is misspelled (capitalization matters too) it will not work and RimWorld will show some kind of (usually seemingly unrelated) error when you start it. As an editor for xml files I am using Notepad++. It's free and works well enough. But if you find something better that's cool too.
Yeeeaaah, syntax is probably what I'll have the most issues with at first here. I guess over time I'll probably be getting better at it, though. In the meantime, you'll probably have to be patient with my learning process. Also I've used Notepad++ before for Don't Starve "modding", so that's taken care of.
Quote from: Orion on June 23, 2015, 03:19:54 AM
Now what I generally find tedious is taking care of the matching language defs. They're required in case someone wants to create a localization. At this point there is only an outdated Korean one, which I obviously can't fix myself ;)
With the research example, there's a matching file ResearchProjects_Mechanoids.xml in Mods/MoreMechanoids/Languages/DefInjected/ResearchProjectDef.
Here the entry looks like this:
(codemaster.exe)
Basically it's just a copy of the original text - it overwrites it when this language is active. If any other language is active, the original text will be used, so it's important that that one is the same.
Yeah, that seems pretty simple if not slightly time consuming.
Quote from: Orion on June 23, 2015, 03:19:54 AM
So if you're willing to tackle this, I think we can best take further instructions to direct messaging. If you think this is too much to handle, do tell me. Obviously, in order to actually save me some time, you'll need to dig up a lot of information yourself about how some things work. But when you're stuck, let me know.
Sounds fine to me. And don't worry, for now the task you've given me seems pretty simple anyway, so I shouldn't have too much I need to do. Of course, I too have other matters to attend to, but whenever I have the time (which I should USUALLY, since it's summer now) I'll help work on what I can. Like I said, you'll have to be patient with my learning however, as I'll probably make mistakes along the way.
I'm glad to be able to help!
Quote from: Orion on June 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
I read all the stuff you guys wrote and I do like the general notion. My idea for the mechanoids was to exploit the inventory / clothing system to upgrade the mechanoids. So where I want to go is that when you chip a mechanoid, you don't choose a function yet - it just makes it stand around, essentially. Then you can plop in a function chip (given that it's compatible with the mechanoid type) and possibly various upgrades that have been researched.
Implementing extra research items is indeed not very difficult. The trouble lies in the effects of the research / chip. For some things, like changing existing stats, it's no problem. For new things it will be more work (sometimes significantly / unpredictably much more).
Since both of you seem to have some pretty good ideas and strong motivation for this, I hereby extend the offer to help me with the mod and temporarily share ownership of the mod. I don't have much time for it, so for example someone to plan / test / balance research and upgrades would be very helpful. Also someone to take care of the corresponding XML files just as well.
There are also several new mechanoid types in the pipe that Joey has prepared. Adding some more of them would also be a lot of work but add a lot to the mod. So that'd be a question of prioritization - upgrades or new mechanoid types?
And of course there's also the neverending task of upgrading to the latest version of RimWorld.
On the idea of limiting the amount of mechanoids: Since PAL is gone, I don't want to add a rigid limit to the amount, but rather make the player dependent on spare parts that are not always easy to find / expensive to create / needed in large quantities. So the amount of (functioning) mechanoids a player can have is limited by his supply of spare parts to keep fixing them up.
If he runs out of them, he'll soon have lots of piles of junk standing around the corners of his base. And the obvious source of new parts are mechanoid raids - so with increasingly tougher raids the players capacity for more mechanoids increases as well. A natural balancing mechanism.
I would try to help, but I don't really know about coding.
I am sorta familiar with the xml files because they are pretty straight forward and I sometimes messed with a mod a bit to make it more to my liking, but all I can really to is change stuff already made and stuff.
Also, real life sorta caught up to me, so I might be able to find a hour or so to read stuff and put up ideas and such, but not really much time to play and test.
Quote from: AllenWL on June 26, 2015, 09:26:59 PM
I would try to help, but I don't really know about coding.
I am sorta familiar with the xml files because they are pretty straight forward and I sometimes messed with a mod a bit to make it more to my liking, but all I can really to is change stuff already made and stuff.
Also, real life sorta caught up to me, so I might be able to find a hour or so to read stuff and put up ideas and such, but not really much time to play and test.
No problem!
Scottnov offered to help. Now I just have to find the time to work on it myself ;)
I would love to help you mod/test this; I saw the textures for the other mechs and would definitely like to help you work on this project.
Great! I could use a few testers to make sure I don't release broken stuff.
I'll send you a message when I have a version worth testing and we'll see how it goes!
Okay. I've uploaded a test version for the next release here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/247bpi25ywp5xnh/MoreMechanoids%201.05test.zip?dl=0?dl=0). What needs checking is
- mechanoid attacks
- chipping mechanoids and have them work
- repairing mechanoids
- skullywags opening doors and incapping colonists
- mechanoids breaking down (and restoring) when damaged
Please send me screenshots of (expanded) error messages and explain when it happened. Thanks!
Sweet! On it!
I thought the day would never come, but after blood, sweat and tears, it's finally there. An Alpha 11 compatible version! Hopefully you guys can still enjoy it for a bit, before Alpha 12 is released.
It might not look like much of a change, but I had to make quite a lot of adjustments in the code and def files. So let me know if stuff breaks (from this mod), and don't forget to include output_log.txt or a screenshot of the full error description. Thanks and have fun!
Changelog
1.05 - 29.07.2015
- Converted to Alpha 11
- Centipede: now adoptable
Excellent! Going to download and give it a try right away...
The mod is working perfectly. What type of ideas did you have for the other mechanoids in the mod?
will this work with superior crafting?
It works with SC and you don't need to create a new world.
the rate of deterioration for crawlers seems a bit fast, they don't follow zone restrictions, and they crash every 5 seconds
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
the rate of deterioration for crawlers seems a bit fast
Right now all mechanoids deteriorate at the same speed. So those with less hitpoints will encounter problems earlier.
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
they don't follow zone restrictions
Good point. But since they're no listed in the zone manager tab, I'm not sure how I would actually let the player adjust this. And getting them onto that list seems like an "all or nothing" problem - if I put them on there, I'll run into tons of other things where I don't want them (by giving them full person status, so to speak).
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
and they crash every 5 seconds
Given their usefulness, I had to heavily nerf them. Having all your hauling and cleaning tasks done for you over night (without needing food or anything else) is a HUGE boost for your colony.
So this is the
new way I try to go about it.
Next on the list is being able to upgrade your mechanoids - e.g. to lessen the crashes, speed them up, etc.
Quote from: Computica on July 29, 2015, 07:46:04 PM
The mod is working perfectly. What type of ideas did you have for the other mechanoids in the mod?
Plenty. Unfortunately I just don't have the time I wish I could put into this mod (and it's already been more than 400 hours). So most likely many of the cool graphics Joey made for the mod won't see the light of day. I could put them in as just a slight variation of an existing type, but that won't do them justice.
Next one I want to finish is the armored guy with the built in guns (yeah, because mechanoids weren't already armored enough).
I am curious though:
Are you guys more interested in the upgrade aspect or new types of mechanoids?
Nice to see this one back.
Thx
Added to the [A11] up-to-date modlist (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=14062.0).
Quote from: Orion on July 30, 2015, 06:11:45 AM
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
the rate of deterioration for crawlers seems a bit fast
Right now all mechanoids deteriorate at the same speed. So those with less hitpoints will encounter problems earlier.
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
they don't follow zone restrictions
Good point. But since they're no listed in the zone manager tab, I'm not sure how I would actually let the player adjust this. And getting them onto that list seems like an "all or nothing" problem - if I put them on there, I'll run into tons of other things where I don't want them (by giving them full person status, so to speak).
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
and they crash every 5 seconds
Given their usefulness, I had to heavily nerf them. Having all your hauling and cleaning tasks done for you over night (without needing food or anything else) is a HUGE boost for your colony.
So this is the new way I try to go about it.
Next on the list is being able to upgrade your mechanoids - e.g. to lessen the crashes, speed them up, etc.
Quote from: Computica on July 29, 2015, 07:46:04 PM
The mod is working perfectly. What type of ideas did you have for the other mechanoids in the mod?
Plenty. Unfortunately I just don't have the time I wish I could put into this mod (and it's already been more than 400 hours). So most likely many of the cool graphics Joey made for the mod won't see the light of day. I could put them in as just a slight variation of an existing type, but that won't do them justice.
Next one I want to finish is the armored guy with the built in guns (yeah, because mechanoids weren't already armored enough).
I am curious though: Are you guys more interested in the upgrade aspect or new types of mechanoids?
I was able to set the zone restriction through the little namecard, but not the schedule
I'm honestly more interested in the other types. If you make the rest of them function like you have planned I would like to take over the mod for you. I do a lot of modding for M&B Warband and find modding RimWorld quite easy to mod even in the assembly.
Though I'm helping you to the develop the mod, I still think I'll put in my 2 cents and say that I would prefer upgrades. More mechanoid types would be interesting, but upgrades would add a lot more depth.
Quote from: dareddevil7 on July 30, 2015, 02:20:23 PM
I was able to set the zone restriction through the little namecard, but not the schedule
Interesting. But they didn't stick to the zone, I guess? I'll look into that.
Quote from: Computica on July 30, 2015, 03:45:53 PM
I'm honestly more interested in the other types. If you make the rest of them function like you have planned I would like to take over the mod for you.
What would you be doing with the mod?
If you'd take care of always updating the mod to the latest version of RimWorld (which right now costs me almost all my time), I could focus on adding new features, like new types AND upgrades.
That'd be a win-win for everyone, no?
Quote from: Scottnov on July 30, 2015, 04:46:48 PM
More mechanoid types would be interesting, but upgrades would add a lot more depth.
I do think upgrades will be interesting to let the player fine tune their mechanoids and grow more attached to them. But I think the impact shouldn't be overestimated. If, in the end, it's more effective to just convert another mechanoid of the same type than to upgrade the first one, the whole upgrade system becomes a dominated choice.
I do want to try out upgrades to see if it's worth it, but I'm not sure how much time should go into it.
I think I'll stick to MAI for Roombas and mulebots and androids and use your mod for little robo bugs staying behind to punch my trade beacon and cut the pinky off my colonist out hauling
Awww yisss, finally A11-ready.
I love having more diversity between the enemies.
May I suggest SC compatibility? Or if it's already in, how would I go about hacking mechanoids?
Quote from: MikeOfDragon on August 01, 2015, 12:29:22 PM
May I suggest SC compatibility? Or if it's already in, how would I go about hacking mechanoids?
Of course you may. But since I'm not using that mod and have very limited time, it's rather unlikely I'll work on that.
Also I don't know what SC compatibility would entail, so I have no idea how you would do that. Chances are, that it'll need an extra patch to work, so this mod doesn't break when people do not have SC.
Quote from: Orion on August 02, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: MikeOfDragon on August 01, 2015, 12:29:22 PM
May I suggest SC compatibility? Or if it's already in, how would I go about hacking mechanoids?
Of course you may. But since I'm not using that mod and have very limited time, it's rather unlikely I'll work on that.
Also I don't know what SC compatibility would entail, so I have no idea how you would do that. Chances are, that it'll need an extra patch to work, so this mod doesn't break when people do not have SC.
They work together just fine so long as more mechcaniods is after SC, the powered crafting table is what you use to make the chips
Quote from: dareddevil7 on August 02, 2015, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: Orion on August 02, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: MikeOfDragon on August 01, 2015, 12:29:22 PM
May I suggest SC compatibility? Or if it's already in, how would I go about hacking mechanoids?
Of course you may. But since I'm not using that mod and have very limited time, it's rather unlikely I'll work on that.
Also I don't know what SC compatibility would entail, so I have no idea how you would do that. Chances are, that it'll need an extra patch to work, so this mod doesn't break when people do not have SC.
They work together just fine so long as more mechcaniods is after SC, the powered crafting table is what you use to make the chips
Thanks! That's good to know!
Quote from: Orion on August 03, 2015, 05:26:08 AM
Quote from: dareddevil7 on August 02, 2015, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: Orion on August 02, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: MikeOfDragon on August 01, 2015, 12:29:22 PM
May I suggest SC compatibility? Or if it's already in, how would I go about hacking mechanoids?
Of course you may. But since I'm not using that mod and have very limited time, it's rather unlikely I'll work on that.
Also I don't know what SC compatibility would entail, so I have no idea how you would do that. Chances are, that it'll need an extra patch to work, so this mod doesn't break when people do not have SC.
They work together just fine so long as more mechcaniods is after SC, the powered crafting table is what you use to make the chips
Thanks! That's good to know!
Need fixes.. And i suppose mod conflicts with Miscellanious mod.
Orion, please test the functionality More Mechanoids with Hardcore SK pack - it's full of bugs :( Mechs going to bed... Sometimes killing each other... and Jobs errors...
I get this error when loading into a fresh world.
Exception PostLoadAllSpawned in Redver: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at RimWorld.ThoughtWorker_SharedBedroom.CurrentStateInternal (Verse.Pawn p) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.ThoughtWorker.CurrentState (Verse.Pawn p) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.ThoughtHandler.GainThoughtsAsNeeded () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.ThoughtHandler.Notify_PostMapInit () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.Pawn.PostMapInit () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at MoreMechanoids.PawnConverted.PostMapInit () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.MapIniterUtility.FinalizeMapInit () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
Hmm... I don't know what "Redver" is. Must be from another mod...
Quote from: skyarkhangel on August 06, 2015, 02:11:22 PM
Orion, please test the functionality More Mechanoids with Hardcore SK pack - it's full of bugs :( Mechs going to bed... Sometimes killing each other... and Jobs errors...
Sounds terrible... But sorry, I just don't have the time to fix compatibility with mod packs. Too much testing with code and features I don't know.
If you have something very specific that needs changing, I can look into that.
Quote from: Orion on August 10, 2015, 04:16:26 AM
Hmm... I don't know what "Redver" is. Must be from another mod...
Redver is just a generated pawn name this error is reproduced with random different names each time it happens but the error stack is the same...
Ah, right. I'll look into it when I have the time... But don't hold your horses, I'm overloaded with work these days.
Is there a simple way (like, changing a value in a file) to lower the detoriation/crash chance?
Because for me personally, it's way too high. Brand "new" crawlers don't even manage to haul one single item without at least rebooting once. If not more.
Yea I have to agree that the crawlers themselves specifically don't last very long. The micromanaging every day just is not make it worth doing for them. The others can last a week to a month before needing to be repaired but if forget checking the crawlers for a few days I know to look for them in the robot graveyard I set up..
That is actually quite odd, since colonists fix up the worst parts if they're on repair duty.
So either you have really a lot of them, or they break entirely by chance. Hm. I guess I should make deterioration tweakable.
The situation I described had..... 2 Crawlers. Colony-wide. In a colony with ~10 people.
Brand new or freshly repaired crawler, didn't matter. They maybe managed to do ONE trip, after that the crash chance was way above 50%, and even that one trip usually had one or two reboots in it.
So... yeah... please do make them tweakable :(
Quote from: Orion on August 13, 2015, 04:49:35 PM
That is actually quite odd, since colonists fix up the worst parts if they're on repair duty.
So either you have really a lot of them, or they break entirely by chance. Hm. I guess I should make deterioration tweakable.
I didn't really have a lot, I had two crawlers, a scyther, and a centipede I got out of a random raid. Chipped them and the scyther and centipede I had no issues. I think the time between the damage for them is just to much for when people are sleeping, or they don't have enough health. I think a tweak to either of that would fix the issue.
The crashes are by design. Otherwise they are way overpowered. But they shouldn't just get destroyed.
I appreciate that and agree, but the frequency (at least in my game) just made them absolutely unworthy of the involved effort (aka, plasteel and such). It was actually a lot easier to just capture/recruit another raider and set him to only haul. He worked faster, way more reliable, and didn't cost anything besides a bit of rice - of which I produce enough anyway.
For me, at the moment, chipped mechanoids don't offer any... advantage, any real value. And with them being all Zzzzz-rebooty all the time (really, with 3 mechanoids, I could never find an opportunity to make a screenshot without one of them being in that state), even the "style/coolness"-factor is sadly not really a given.
I don't know if this has already been addressed, but I wish I could use the converted Mechanoids in combat. It was their original purpose, and the converted crawlers still have their plasma cutters as a body part, so I don't see why not.
Quote from: cy-one on August 14, 2015, 08:04:41 AM
I appreciate that and agree, but the frequency (at least in my game) just made them absolutely unworthy of the involved effort (aka, plasteel and such).
The next version will have a little bit slower deterioration and possibly it will be tweakable, if you're into XML modding.
Quote from: RiftandRend on August 14, 2015, 01:24:54 PM
I don't know if this has already been addressed, but I wish I could use the converted Mechanoids in combat. It was their original purpose, and the converted crawlers still have their plasma cutters as a body part, so I don't see why not.
It's been an ongoing discussion. For now the argument is the following: it's a lot of work to implement and balance, and right now I don't even have enough time to tweak their crashes, let alone new features.
Quote from: Orion on August 15, 2015, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: cy-one on August 14, 2015, 08:04:41 AM
I appreciate that and agree, but the frequency (at least in my game) just made them absolutely unworthy of the involved effort (aka, plasteel and such).
The next version will have a little bit slower deterioration and possibly it will be tweakable, if you're into XML modding.
As long as it's at least a little bit documented, I'll be fine :D
Awesome mod. I just hope the the A12 version of you mod is coming soon ;D
I'm afraid you'll have to hang tight for a while. I think it'll be at the very least 4 weeks, since my agenda doesn't allow me to even get started any time soon :-\
Any new news on this mod?
He mentioned at least 4 weeks on 30 August. One message above your post. PAY ATTENTION.
Changelog
1.06 - 09.10.2015
- Converted to Alpha 12
- Added mammoth and assaulter
- More tweakable settings (see PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml)
- known problem:
Unfortunately there were bugs I could not track down and fix. Any help finding their cause is appreciated:
- "Failed to find any texture while constructing Multi" error when first spawning Mechanoids - harmless but annoying.
- "GetName - Element is used" - weird problem when traders arrive, might not be MM's fault.
raddddd just need my current colony to collapse so i can slap this baby in lol
A12 ready, hell yea.
Quote from: Orion on October 09, 2015, 03:38:11 PM
Changelog
1.06 - 09.10.2015
- More tweakable settings (see PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml)
Thanks for letting us tweak the Deterioration. It definitely seems to not be working correctly to me. Having the same mech break and need repairs twice in one day is super annoying.
Any plans for a crop growing chip?
Quote from: flankspeed on October 11, 2015, 12:48:28 AM
Thanks for letting us tweak the Deterioration. It definitely seems to not be working correctly to me. Having the same mech break and need repairs twice in one day is super annoying.
You don't actively have to fix them. When it gets too bad, your colonists will do it. I do believe the mechanoids have to be nerfed heavily, breakdowns and repairs seem like a reasonable way to do it. But yeah, everyone has to find a difficulty that suits them, so tweaking it seems like a good compromise.
Quote from: flankspeed on October 11, 2015, 12:48:28 AM
Any plans for a crop growing chip?
Surprise feature! It's actually in there. You can chip the centipedes to mine and grow crops. So in fact you can run your whole food supply chain on mechanoids. Except for hunting, since that felt like it's violating the idea of "We don't let our worst nightmare use weapons after fixing them".
Quote from: flankspeed on October 11, 2015, 12:48:28 AM
Any plans for a crop growing chip?
Quote from: Orion on October 11, 2015, 04:52:29 AM
Surprise feature! It's actually in there. You can chip the centipedes to mine and grow crops. So in fact you can run your whole food supply chain on mechanoids. Except for hunting, since that felt like it's violating the idea of "We don't let our worst nightmare use weapons after fixing them".
Did you test it? Are you sure crops don't die of old age before the centipedes get there to harvest :D
Those things are so sloooooow!
Yay! C'mere you tiny lil bugs! I'll harvest all of your bodies!
Crawlers been throwing some job errors for me. reads as.
Mechanoid Crawler threw and acception while determining job. systemnullrefrence object refrence not set to an instance of an object
seems to be an issue with it trying to get its equipment? and then trying to go to a terminal? im confused by this.
Quote from: flankspeed on October 11, 2015, 07:04:41 AM
Did you test it? Are you sure crops don't die of old age before the centipedes get there to harvest :D
Those things are so sloooooow!
Yeah, they even go into your base and fill the flower pots ::)
Quote from: Kolljak on October 11, 2015, 11:03:10 AM
Mechanoid Crawler threw and acception while determining job. systemnullrefrence object refrence not set to an instance of an object
seems to be an issue with it trying to get its equipment? and then trying to go to a terminal? im confused by this.
Sounds like a conflict with another mod. Can you attach your output_log.txt or make a screenshot of the complete error message?
Pretty sure i know which one.. only mod i got that could possibly effect them is Enviro_SK as they would not be marked with the MachineBrain Def that is in that.
Quote from: Kolljak on October 12, 2015, 08:50:31 AM
Pretty sure i know which one.. only mod i got that could possibly effect them is Enviro_SK as they would not be marked with the MachineBrain Def that is in that.
That helps. If you want me to take a closer look, I need the error log, though.
(http://ufo2.site44.com/Crawler/rest.png)
Still open to ideas for more meniacle mechanical masterpieces of destruction?
I can't kill the Assaulter, yes, a single one...i tried flanking, using turrets and all my 9 guys and he did not even take dammage, someone help T-T :'(
Quote from: DragonsAngel on October 14, 2015, 03:22:23 PM
I can't kill the Assaulter, yes, a single one...i tried flanking, using turrets and all my 9 guys and he did not even take dammage, someone help T-T :'(
Hm. Interesting. I shall look into it. I'm using some weapon mods, so there is a chance that normal weapons are too weak to damage it.
Quote from: Loki88 on October 14, 2015, 11:07:21 AM
Still open to ideas for more meniacle mechanical masterpieces of destruction?
I have a lot of ideas already, but not enough time to do much with them. Also I'm limited to the graphics Joey made back in the days. It might even be better not to tell, since if you suggest something that is already on my list, it'll make it harder to take credit for it myself ;)
I just started using this mod and a) it works fine with an existing colony, and b) FRICKIN AWESOME! I really love the hard new mechs, and having little roombas running about is most excellent. Thanks for a great mod.
I have one request: is it possible to have an overview screen for reprogrammed mechs, similar to the animals screen (maybe even integrated into it)? Just to keep tabs on all the little buggers... ;D
Hello, first off I want to say I really love your mod. However, when I'm making the chips for them my people are taking 100 silver instead of the 5 they are supposed to.
There isn't any error log that has come up either so sorry about that.
Thank you very much for any help.
Quote from: Tekuromoto on October 17, 2015, 09:20:30 PM
I just started using this mod and a) it works fine with an existing colony, and b) FRICKIN AWESOME! I really love the hard new mechs, and having little roombas running about is most excellent. Thanks for a great mod.
I have one request: is it possible to have an overview screen for reprogrammed mechs, similar to the animals screen (maybe even integrated into it)? Just to keep tabs on all the little buggers... ;D
Thanks for enjoying the mod! I will look into making such a window when I have time. Many more people would like it, so it might be worth the trouble.
Quote from: Twinkieishere17 on October 19, 2015, 02:58:47 AM
Hello, first off I want to say I really love your mod. However, when I'm making the chips for them my people are taking 100 silver instead of the 5 they are supposed to.
This is by design. It's a rimworld rule that small materials like gold, silver and uranium use 20 pieces per unit. Very confusing, I know.
New version!
1.07 - 19.10.2015
- Balancing
- Recharging platform for mechanoids
- Tab for finding all mechanoids and setting areas (like animals)
I have the problem, that colonist wont attack the new mechanoids (accept the crawlers). I have to assign the target mannualy and the old ones and crawlers are targeted normaly.
Edit: Nevermind, it just took two restarts and a quick change of my modorder to be fixed.
Quote from: Noobier on October 19, 2015, 02:14:09 PM
I have the problem, that colonist wont attack the new mechanoids (accept the crawlers). I have to assign the target mannualy and the old ones and crawlers are targeted normaly.
Actually, I've experienced this too. I gave mechanoids a slight chance to be burnable, and for some reason they eventually catch fire during fights (maybe a weapon mod). Once they burn, they're not seen as a threat and you have to manually target them. If this turns out to annoy too many people, I'll make them fireproof again.
Also, a small explanation about the new charge plates:
They're mainly there to allow you to choose where the mechanoids will rest when idle. But as long as they're powered, the mechanoids will also not deteriorate while standing on them.
Quote from: Orion on October 20, 2015, 03:55:47 AM
Quote from: Noobier on October 19, 2015, 02:14:09 PM
I have the problem, that colonist wont attack the new mechanoids (accept the crawlers). I have to assign the target mannualy and the old ones and crawlers are targeted normaly.
Actually, I've experienced this too. I gave mechanoids a slight chance to be burnable, and for some reason they eventually catch fire during fights (maybe a weapon mod). Once they burn, they're not seen as a threat and you have to manually target them. If this turns out to annoy too many people, I'll make them fireproof again.
Oh thanks for the hint. So my defense against them with lasers is quite stupid. ^^
On the other hand, they catch fire when they are around a shipwreck and some of them get instakilled while I'm gathering my troops.
Maybe removing the firerestistance would be a good idea.
Quotethey catch fire when they are around a shipwreck
Good point.
I love the mod, and I love the new update with the Mechanoid tab. However, I think being able to toggle all of an option at once would be a huge quality of life increase. It's kind of a bummer clicking "Stay Home" 20+ times every time I get raided.
Thanks for the update - having a tab is very helpful.
One small note: the charge pads (or at least the small one, haven't made large ones yet) don't connect to the power net automatically. That is, they don't "plug in" to a conduit within range - I've had to build conduit right to the charge pad to get it to connect.
I have a slight issue, I cant see any way to repurpose mechanoids, I have a bunch of dead crawlers around (and the machine table does not show a repurpose option) and I also have a incapacitated centipede which I cant do anything with either, could someone please tell me whats going on here? thanks
Quote from: grizzlymint_gpt on October 22, 2015, 05:33:22 PM
I think being able to toggle all of an option at once would be a huge quality of life increase.
I'll look into it.
Quote from: Tekuromoto on October 22, 2015, 06:27:59 PM
One small note: the charge pads (or at least the small one, haven't made large ones yet) don't connect to the power net automatically.
Will look into it.
Quote from: wh72 on October 23, 2015, 06:11:51 AM
I have a slight issue, I cant see any way to repurpose mechanoids, I have a bunch of dead crawlers around (and the machine table does not show a repurpose option) and I also have a incapacitated centipede which I cant do anything with either, could someone please tell me whats going on here?
If the option doesn't show, you probably still have to research it. Or the mod is conflicting with another mod that you're using.
Anybody else think mechanoid deterioration is a bit...well annoying
Quote from: wh72 on October 23, 2015, 06:11:51 AM
I have a slight issue, I cant see any way to repurpose mechanoids, I have a bunch of dead crawlers around (and the machine table does not show a repurpose option) and I also have a incapacitated centipede which I cant do anything with either, could someone please tell me whats going on here? thanks
I was confused by this at first too, you repurpose them at machining benches. You might already know this of course, I'm not really too sure how I myself missed it to begin with, but I decided I might as well try at least.
Quote from: Zeta Omega on October 23, 2015, 06:58:58 PM
Anybody else think mechanoid deterioration is a bit...well annoying
It is, yeah, but that's just part of owning them. It definitely does fee more annoying than it probably should be due how random it is, though, especially for crawlers which have really low HP parts.
Quote from: Zeta Omega on October 23, 2015, 06:58:58 PM
Anybody else think mechanoid deterioration is a bit...well annoying
If you have a better way to balance out an autonomic worker without running costs that slaves away day and night without needs for food, sleep or joy, that can be built in almost unlimited quantities, I'm all ears.
Further requirements are of course that it has to make sense, fit the theme and story and not take weeks to implement or require fancy extra graphics.
Quote from: Orion on October 24, 2015, 07:05:30 AM
Quote from: Zeta Omega on October 23, 2015, 06:58:58 PM
Anybody else think mechanoid deterioration is a bit...well annoying
If you have a better way to balance out an autonomic worker without running costs that slaves away day and night without needs for food, sleep or joy, that can be built in almost unlimited quantities, I'm all ears.
Further requirements are of course that it has to make sense, fit the theme and story and not take weeks to implement or require fancy extra graphics.
Perhaps the deterioration rate across all mechanoids should be reduced by around 20-40% and then we add a "deteriorating" battery part to all mechanoids like I had described before, so both concepts are kept but it's a little less troubling to constantly have your colonists having to go repair them?
I love this mod, but I'm having a problem now that my colony is humming along and I have a few crawlers chipped for hauling: if there's nothing for them to haul, the game lags like mad. If I toggle them to stop working and stay home, the lagginess stops.
Any thoughts? I'm running a slew of mods but I'm hoping it's not a conflict. ::)
Quote from: Tekuromoto on October 25, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
I love this mod, but I'm having a problem now that my colony is humming along and I have a few crawlers chipped for hauling: if there's nothing for them to haul, the game lags like mad. If I toggle them to stop working and stay home, the lagginess stops.
Any thoughts? I'm running a slew of mods but I'm hoping it's not a conflict. ::)
Hm. I'll take a look at the corresponding code, but I'm not experiencing the problem myself, so there's a good chance it's a conflict. Are you getting error messages when it happens?
Quote from: Orion on October 26, 2015, 10:53:59 AM
Hm. I'll take a look at the corresponding code, but I'm not experiencing the problem myself, so there's a good chance it's a conflict. Are you getting error messages when it happens?
Nothing that pops the console open, no.
I've removed a few mods for my new playthrough (having escaped the planet for the first time in my previous game, yay! ;D) so I'll let you know if it happens with this mod loadout once I get up to speed.
I've optimized the code a bit now. So once the next version is released it will also be better.
I created an account here with the sole purpose to give you my thanks for such a game enriching mod, plusto give out a bit of feedback and info.
Of course, it isnt the best ***t on the galaxy, but damn it does a good job at trying! I've played with htis Mod for about... one month already, 3 full colonies totally destroyed (mostly by the mechanoid attacks) and probabbly another 7 or 8 which i lost at early game due to my stupidity XD Now, onto a little review of my experiences!
-Awesome stuff.
You will have fun. Rimworld is all about involving yourself into a challenge, and the new mechanoids do really add up to that challenge, I was really interested in the Crawlers, tiny thingys are weaker than I thought, but damn they can tear everyone up if they have the numbers. Skullywag became a veritable security problem, opening up doors for its friends to come in made me rethink and reconsider my building layout, placing strategic walls or collumns indoors just in case things grew ugly (Things allways grow ugly with mechanoids around, but these take things up to a new level, so many died, but that was so fun and challenging XD)
The best thing is, if you somehow survive, you can repurpose your foe's dead metallic bodies to do those meager, yet important jobs your colony needs done, believe me that having a couple of Doctoring Skullywags around is pretty damn neat when after a raid you got over 12 incapacitated people around, be it enemy or colonist, these repurposed robots can lift up a great deal of weight getting everyone patched up and well fed in their medical beds, allowing your more healthy clonists more time to relax after a heated battle.
Mining Centipedes aren't very helpful in Flat biomes, and i havent tested the Growing ones yet, they just require so much space, energy and maintenance, i found it redundant and unnecesary (just my opinion) However I need to futher test these guys out, still, i trust they can tank jsut as much damage as any enemy centipede, which can be useful if they find themselves in between your colonists and a raiding party. (I laughed so much when I saw my centipede killing and incapacitating half a group of Tribespeople melee attackers on its own.)
Scythers? Well... their jobs arent the most usual ones, Repurposing to plant cutting means they will only cut plants you have designated, manually. Which means you cant expect a scyther to go harvest a 100% grown plant on its own, you gotta mark the plant for harvesting first, which gets... not appealing. Tailoring was by far, more useful, keeping your clothing stocks up to date for your colonists to pick up from is always nice, i never ran into the "Naked" thought again after I got this guy to stitch up some clothes.
Crawlers are by far, the most useful and easy to maintain ones. Keeping around 4 Cleaners and 10 Haulers is a blessing! Nobody was angry again about having Dirty surroundings, or getting in a poor mood after not eatiing/resting because they were hauling some Item from one map edge to the other. Brilliant job with those, they can also defend themselves from Mad Animals! Not that they always win though, the animal.... can usually kill themin one blow and... ok never mind XD Dont let your crawlers near any threat, thats final.
About Skullywags, I personally never repurposed one for cooking, since I like to have Colonists at it with "Interested/Burning" passion for it, significantly reducing the chances of food poisoning. Besides, by the time I get to kill a skullywag, I do already have a couple of nice Cooks. They are far more useful as Doctors, rescue is something they shouldnt be tasked for, since they can end up rebooting in the middle of the trip towards your downed pawn, then comming back to base and leaving your guy bleeding on the ground. Nope, allways rescue your pawns yourself! Skullywags excell at actually Healing and Feeding, if you play in a hot biome, where the chances of disease is high, having a skullywag around to help with the medicine treatment while having half your colony incapacitated in bed is very useful.
-Bad things
However I come to warn, playing this Mod with Combat Realism is almost a sentence of death! All the mechanoids are very challenging and balanced, in my opinion... however... Mammooth and Assaulter are, literally, invulnerable to attack, the only ways i've found marginally possible to deal with those Heavily armoured guys is through the use of heat weapons, which, are not reliable at all since they only do little damage through time. There is almost absolutely no way to kill them with any gun with Piercing or Blunt damage, because, as I said before, their armor escalates up to a 90% with Combat Realism, so... without some sort of Anti-Tank gun you're pretty much screwed, Harshly, and painfully. x.x
I do not have experience using More Mechanoids without Combat Realism though, so I dont know how does it work in those cases. Can I suggest a bit of a tweaking for compatibility with Combat Realism? or is this intended? Nevertheless, mixin up this Mod with Combat Realism is absolutely marvelous, although, hard, but who's looking for a walk in the park anyways?
Overall, please, respond when you can, Im really looking forward to know if there will be some compatibility patch for Combat Realism regarding Mammooth and Assaulter. Anyways, great mod man! Youre doing a good job on this, its admirable.
Oh, one more thing! Regarding a couple of posts above, I agree the Deterioration rates are a bit too fast as well. Bye!
Quote from: Komyets on November 08, 2015, 06:06:28 PM
-snip-
Nice review +1I also have a problem with the mod, I use prepare carefully to start new games and sometimes I use Crash Landing alongside it and there is a problem with the mechanoids, somehow at random they auto-convert-hack themselves to the service of the colony whilst inside random dungeons, or they break the walls and "Freedom" they wreak havok on my newly created chars and surviving after-crash-landing colonies (that are easy to finish off since everyone is somehow wreaked/broken/maimed..
Oh my GOD dude! you need to fix those damn flamebots, they destroy dungeon/ancient ruin walls, I had collected an entire crash landeded crew to a medic spot, all the sudden some FLAMEBOT came and burned 11 colonists to DEATH, I shed a tear.. that was genocide, I swear.. these mechanoids scream murder.. even had Skynet enabled for the added tension, I regret it most dearly..
Quote from: Komyets on November 08, 2015, 06:06:28 PM
I created an account here with the sole purpose to give you my thanks for such a game enriching mod, plusto give out a bit of feedback and info.
Thanks so much for the elaborate feedback! It's always great to hear that the endless hours put into a mod are appreciated.
I don't play with Combat Realism myself, so I just tweaked the Mechanoids for playing without. Since you play with it, I'd like to invite you to give it a shot yourself. There are a few interesting files in the MoreMechanoids mod folder:
- MechanoidFactionDefs.xml - Here you can tweak the chance that a specific mechanoid will spawn (lower selectionWeight = more of them, earlier).
- PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml - Here you can adjust the chance of crashing and the rate of deterioration (right at the top).
- Races_Mechanoid.xml - Here you can tweak armor, movement speed and melee damage.
Should you get any useful results, I can surely add a link to the front page of the mod, so other users of Combat Realism can benefit as well. There is one thing, if you want to share it, though. Every time there is a new version of the MoreMechanoids mod, you have to make sure that all the settings that you didn't chance are updated to match.
Quote from: Techgenius on November 09, 2015, 11:22:18 AM
I also have a problem with the mod, I use prepare carefully to start new games and sometimes I use Crash Landing [..]
I'm not sure exactly how Crash Landing affects MoreMechanoids. The problem here is that the core game just grabs all possible mechanoids and spawns them in those rooms. This includes the converted mechanoids and of course the flame bots. So actually I don't know how to fix this one. If you find out more, I'd be interested to know, though.
Quote from: Orion on November 10, 2015, 04:05:59 AM
I'm not sure exactly how Crash Landing affects MoreMechanoids. The problem here is that the core game just grabs all possible mechanoids and spawns them in those rooms. This includes the converted mechanoids and of course the flame bots. So actually I don't know how to fix this one. If you find out more, I'd be interested to know, though.
No, they are separeted, no conflicts whatsoever, however.. its the way they overlap each other, day one I have to deal with skullywags scythers and other dangerous mechanoids, crawlers are OK, but what kills my colonisation attemps, and thats not because "I fell from a crashing space ship in some unknown rimworld".. its how aggressive some mechanoids tend to be at the beginning, I'm not sure if you ever tested Crash Landing, if you do you'll see they are different things, but More Mechanoids up the tension, I'm not going to spoil Crash Landing for you, but if you do play it enable More Mechanoids as well, you'll see what I'm typing about.
I think it has to do with the aggressivity of the new mechanoids, the way they behave.. can Home Zoning trigger the attack sequences from the mechanoids? such as they breaking walls of the dungeons they are put in? because they now know there are "Players/enemies" nearby?
Also, could you add Mechanoid husks to Black Markets? in some planets I'm in I hardly ever see Mechanoids, that is assuming.. they don't break off wherever they are and come murder my colonists early, also because I've never seen some of the new types, such as the mammoths, not that I'm sure I won't like that encounter, I think it would be more plausive to have lower class mechanoids at your service at the beginning using your resources to get the parts/husks early, specially if some players fancy the loner/mechanoid nerd paths, extra servos are always welcome! :D
Have you ever thought about creating new dungeons at world generation and perhaps storytellers? like perhaps.. old mechanoid cities/factories? places where players could set up after they dealt with the mechanoids residing there, this could even include old tech factories and objects players could scavange, to build new mechanoids, joy or production purposes..
Storyteller could simulate a constant mechanoid invasion, but more like Phoebe Chillax and Cassandra Classic, you get to build a base, but you're constantly harassed by mechanoid incursions, for some reason you have something and they want it and their invasion starts to scale.. in the beginning a few crawlers appear, then more, then skullywags start appearing with the crawlers, and then flamebots, and then scythers and more dangerous types, depending on difficulty set by the player.
Quote from: Techgenius on November 10, 2015, 09:54:09 AM
No, they are separeted, no conflicts whatsoever, however.. its the way they overlap each other, day one I have to deal with skullywags scythers and other dangerous mechanoids, crawlers are OK, but what kills my colonisation attemps, and thats not because "I fell from a crashing space ship in some unknown rimworld".. its how aggressive some mechanoids tend to be at the beginning, I'm not sure if you ever tested Crash Landing, if you do you'll see they are different things, but More Mechanoids up the tension, I'm not going to spoil Crash Landing for you, but if you do play it enable More Mechanoids as well, you'll see what I'm typing about.
I haven't tried the mod yet. I don't think I can do anything about how the mechanoids behave. But you can always tweak your experience by modifying the mod files to make them easier to kill / slower / less.
Quote from: Techgenius on November 10, 2015, 09:54:09 AM
I think it has to do with the aggressivity of the new mechanoids, the way they behave.. can Home Zoning trigger the attack sequences from the mechanoids? such as they breaking walls of the dungeons they are put in? because they now know there are "Players/enemies" nearby?
Not that I'd know of. But that doesn't mean anything, of course.
Quote from: Techgenius on November 10, 2015, 09:54:09 AM
Also, could you add Mechanoid husks to Black Markets? in some planets I'm in I hardly ever see Mechanoids, that is assuming..
That sounds like a reasonable request... I'll think about it.
Quote from: Techgenius on November 10, 2015, 09:54:09 AM
Have you ever thought about creating new dungeons at world generation and perhaps storytellers? like perhaps.. old mechanoid cities/factories? places where players could set up after they dealt with the mechanoids residing there, this could even include old tech factories and objects players could scavange, to build new mechanoids, joy or production purposes..
I have thought about it, yes... but for now I have decided that the effort of creating all the new required content and code is more than the gain. I started a mod once, that adds new dungeons in mountains, but I stopped working on it, because it was a lot of work and I didn't like how the fog of war in the game works. I might be better at it now, but it'll still be a lot of work.
Quote from: Orion on November 10, 2015, 04:05:59 AM
Quote from: Komyets on November 08, 2015, 06:06:28 PM
I created an account here with the sole purpose to give you my thanks for such a game enriching mod, plusto give out a bit of feedback and info.
Thanks so much for the elaborate feedback! It's always great to hear that the endless hours put into a mod are appreciated.
I don't play with Combat Realism myself, so I just tweaked the Mechanoids for playing without. Since you play with it, I'd like to invite you to give it a shot yourself. There are a few interesting files in the MoreMechanoids mod folder:
- MechanoidFactionDefs.xml - Here you can tweak the chance that a specific mechanoid will spawn (lower selectionWeight = more of them, earlier).
- PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml - Here you can adjust the chance of crashing and the rate of deterioration (right at the top).
- Races_Mechanoid.xml - Here you can tweak armor, movement speed and melee damage.
Should you get any useful results, I can surely add a link to the front page of the mod, so other users of Combat Realism can benefit as well. There is one thing, if you want to share it, though. Every time there is a new version of the MoreMechanoids mod, you have to make sure that all the settings that you didn't chance are updated to match.
No problem! And sure, I will try the new tweaked settings up, CombatRealism esentially adds an Armor Piercing stat to the weapons accoding to their realistical counterpart's calibers. So, of course, makes sense that a Pistol would't even scratch a Centipede's paint job. However, the Armor piercing stats are... apparently/realistically too low for those high tech AI tanks, which, also makes sense. But man, not even the Heavy Machine guns, Sniper Rifles, or even the futuristic Charge Rifle can actually damage the Assaulter(Mammooth does actually receive damage from the 3 weapons named above, however the damage is very reduced, which I DO actually like XD).
I experienced an assaulter charging full force in the middle of the cross fire, a Minigun equiped Centipede was already shooting too, and its bullets were actually hitting the Assaulter right in the back. Well... guess what? The Assaulter never received damage from that. A gatling Cannon. No match for the Assaulter? Thats probabbly one of the main reasons why I came to tell you this. No worries, with the new data you gave me, I'll be abe to test this out further.
Another two things I forgot to point out on my first post.
Enemy mechanoids seem to fall asleep, just like any other animal in the region, they fall asleep, then wake up when the sun rises, or... when a pawn steps within melee range of them. This is... an odd feature/bug... Which is also exploitable. Look, CombatRealism adds a new wall type called Embrasure, which allows people to shoot through them when still being an impassable barrier, it basically behaves exactly like an ordinary wall, but you can shoot though it. I used this feature/bug, + the embrasures to enclose the most dangerous mechanoids, they actually stay within their "cells" and never shoot back, unless the Ship Part is damaged bellow 50%, they will go rampage and take down the walls keeping them captive. One can safely destroy the mechanoids through this method, or contain them until one gets the propper weapons to deal with them, and it is something that annoys me. Feels wrong. Mechanoids falling asleep only occurs when they are in a passive/defensive state, such as guarding a Fallen Ship Part, they do not sleep when in an aggravated state, such as the state attacking enemies begin at when charging your base.
The other thing I wanted to mention, Enemy Mechanoids do seem to actually heal their damage, very, veeeery slowly over time, but they do, they actually frigging heal themselves! (I tested this by enclosing a Centipede inside embrasures, damaging it with Charge rifle shots, then leaving it alone for several days.) Each Charge Rifle shot dealt around 11 damage, the Centipede was fully healed within around two months of gameplay(20 in-game days) I do not know yet if they regenerate fully lost parts, like a limb. This isnt quite a big problem, one can easily do more damage then what they can heal, but just though it was a funny feature that was worth pointing out.
I do not know what is causing these things to happen, Could be conflicts with CombatRealism since it also modifies and tweaks bodypart settings to make limbs tougher, organs squishier, and to also increase the "in shock from exceptional pain" threeshold. I love that feature since it seems silly that in vanilla game, a pawn can whichstand over 10 shots and still walk around, this tweak can make a pawn be incapacitated by a single, well aimed pistol shot on its leg or torso(which can also damage the bones and organs), damn, I have never been shot or stabbed, but I dont think i would be able to stand up if I were in their place >->
That's all! Sorry for the bit wall of text XD, Im not that good at explaining things in english, so I kinda try way more than the nesesary, I'll let you know how went the armor tweaking in a few days. Peace!
Quote from: Komyets on November 11, 2015, 04:53:32 AM
But man, not even the Heavy Machine guns, Sniper Rifles, or even the futuristic Charge Rifle can actually damage the Assaulter(Mammooth does actually receive damage from the 3 weapons named above, however the damage is very reduced, which I DO actually like XD).
The original concept was that the assaulter is only vulnerable from behind. But it turned out to be practically impossible to implement, so I made just it a pretty tough, more mobile unit.
Quote from: Komyets on November 11, 2015, 04:53:32 AM
Enemy mechanoids seem to fall asleep
I suppose it must be possible somehow to prevent this. It does seem very silly indeed. In the case of the crashed ship part, I think they should just go back inside :P
Quote from: Komyets on November 11, 2015, 04:53:32 AM
The other thing I wanted to mention, Enemy Mechanoids do seem to actually heal their damage, very, veeeery slowly over time, but they do, they actually frigging heal themselves!
This is obviously thanks to nanobot technology, repairing surface damage of mechanoids to prevent the usual decay, wear and tear. Obviously, when converting a mechanoid this mechanism stops working, which causes their rapid deterioration.
Or in other words, probably noone ever noticed this, maybe even Tynan included, so he didn't bother taking it out.
Quote from: Komyets on November 11, 2015, 04:53:32 AM
That's all! Sorry for the bit wall of text XD, Im not that good at explaining things in english, so I kinda try way more than the nesesary, I'll let you know how went the armor tweaking in a few days. Peace!
No need to be sorry. It's a nice change to only getting bug reports.
I can personally confirm that in my games, mechanoids have repaired themselves. I've noticed centipedes and scythers repair gunshot wounds, bow hits,named cracks from mortar shells.
Im back! And I brought up cookies!
Alright, I put myself tonight onto work on this issue about some mechanoids being unfairly hard to kill while using CombatRealism.
I browsed the .xml files and somehow I managed to put all together and nice to understand. Here is a graph that I made while testing the damages of each weapon, against the heavily armored mechanoids only, since I decided the other mechanoids have good enough armor as it is.
/ Centipede / Mammoth / Assaulter / Tweaked Assaulter
Survival Rifle / 3 / 0 / 0 / 0
Assault Rifle / 5 / 1 / 0 / 0
Sniper Rifle / 7 / 3 / 0 / 1
LMG / 9 / 3 / 0 / 1
Charge Rifle / 11 / 6 / 0 / 3
Other Sharp Damage Weapons did absolutely zero damage to all of them.
The mechanoids tested here were of your doing, and their current armor ratings; which I used for the test are:
-Centipede
<ArmorRating_Blunt>0.2
<ArmorRating_Sharp>0.7
-Mammoth
<ArmorRating_Blunt>0.5
<ArmorRating_Sharp>0.8
-Assaulter
<ArmorRating_Blunt>0.9
<ArmorRating_Sharp>0.9
-Tweaked Assaulter
<ArmorRating_Blunt>0.9
<ArmorRating_Sharp>0.84
Here is the list of Each weapon used to deal damage with, along with their respective Armor piercing values. IMPORTANT NOTE: CombatRealism's Author claims that vanilla weapons do not have any Armor Piercing values, this is true. However, CombatRealism adds those values which are the source of the slight imbalance, but are too important to even dare to change, you'll see them bellow right now.
-Survival Rifle Bullet
<armorPenetration>0.55
-Assault Rifle Bullet
<armorPenetration>0.65
-Sniper Rifle Bullet
<armorPenetration>0.7
-LMG Bullet
<armorPenetration>0.7
-Charge Rifle Bullet
<armorPenetration>0.775
You may notice up there that I never changed the Centipede, or the Mammoth's armor values, that is because they seem to be okay just the way they are. Of course that "Just the way they are" Is not technically fair for colonies who might not posess the appropiate weapons to deal with them, so you could choose to lower their armor just a little bit more. Not my place to choose, its your mod after all :)
Assaulter, however, I had to definitely lower its armor from 90 to 84, if you raise it to 85 armor, only the charge rifle will deal damage, and it will only deal 1 damage per shot. Lowering it to 83 armor made both the Sniper Rifle and the LMG deal 2 damage instead of 1, that also increased the damage of the Charge Rifle, those weapons have a high rate of fire, which made too much of a quick work on the Assaulter, it was dead too quickly, which hindered its Tanky ability too much. So, I believe, 84 armor is the sweet spot. (Bear in mind im kind of a hardcore guy o.o... you might want to make the compatibility patch a little less harsh for others XD).
In conclussion, Survival Rifles, Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, LMGs, and Charge Rifles and perhaps an Incendiary launcher too, are Must-To-Have weapons if one is to play MoreMechanoids alongside CombatRealism. There seems to be no other viable way unless you also make intelligent use of Grenades, Mortars, and the heavy turrets that CombatRealism Defense AddOn provides.
Anyways, I think thats all I had to say, I already tweaked my own game to those values, and im pretty happy with them so far, there hasnt been any unbalance for now, except for the exploitable thing about Mechanoids sleeping, so... i'd say give this a go. Or task other players to test these values out too. Cya!
Thanks for figuring those out! I'm gonna use them. I think without CombatRealism it won't make too much difference.
Now looking at the stats, I'm wondering if it's a viable tactic to equip all colonists with melee weapons and to just sneak up and clobber the mechanoids to death en masse. Won't work for the assaulter or mammoth, though...
Regarding the CR talk, the CR armor system compares penetration vs armor rating to calculate deflection, the formula being (pierceAmount - armorRating) * 4, meaning if armor rating is equal to or higher than penetration shots will always be deflected. Once that happens damage is multiplied by 1 - (2 * armor rating - penetration), so if the difference between armor and penetration is too great armor will block all/no damage. What's more is that worn armor takes damage corresponding to the original damage * penetration, e.g. a sniper rifle will do 24 * 0.7 = 16.8 damage. With natural armor such as with Mechanoids that damage is added to the overall damage instead.
Now the main thing is that, once a shot is deflected the damage after the initial reduction is applied again as blunt type damage. Additionally, penetration is reduced by an amount equal to the armor rating, so in the case of the sniper penetration is reduced to 0.7 * 0.1 = 0.07 against a target with 0.9 sharp armor. So on the second pass the difference between armor and penetration will be big enough that damage will be reduced to 0, meaning enemies with such excessively high natural blunt armor will be all but invincible to weapons that can't penetrate their sharp armor.
No problem Orion, I had free time to do it, don't expect me to do it again soon though :P
@NoImageAvaiable oh hey! Thanks for coming up here, I was thinking of posting something in your mod's forum page but I was too busy to do it yet. I wanted to ask exactly what you just explained now, thank you!
Olay, so, the way I understand this is... if armor is equal or bigger than penetration, no damage is dealt. If that happens, weapon damage is doubled, and it hits the target as blunt damage instead of sharp damage, is that wat you explain? Damn, no wonder the Mammoth does takes damage since its blunt armor is .5, but not the assaulter with .9 blunt.
Could you help with the balancing? I trust that lowering Assaulter armor to 84 like I mentioned above was enough, but there's probably something I'm missing too. I'm not a modder, just an user with some knowledge about how mods work :x
Quote from: Komyets on November 12, 2015, 02:49:44 PM
No problem Orion, I had free time to do it, don't expect me to do it again soon though :P
@NoImageAvaiable oh hey! Thanks for coming up here, I was thinking of posting something in your mod's forum page but I was too busy to do it yet. I wanted to ask exactly what you just explained now, thank you!
Olay, so, the way I understand this is... if armor is equal or bigger than penetration, no damage is dealt. If that happens, weapon damage is doubled, and it hits the target as blunt damage instead of sharp damage, is that wat you explain? Damn, no wonder the Mammoth does takes damage since its blunt armor is .5, but not the assaulter with .9 blunt.
Could you help with the balancing? I trust that lowering Assaulter armor to 84 like I mentioned above was enough, but there's probably something I'm missing too. I'm not a modder, just an user with some knowledge about how mods work :x
Well, that's not really how it works. In a nutshell, if the armor is too high the shot will always get deflected. If it gets deflected it has to get not only through sharp armor but blunt armor too. If the difference between armor and penetration is too high the shot will do no damage.
Regarding balance I'd say bringing the blunt resistance in line with vanilla balancing would be a good idea, not just for CR but in general as the vanilla game is balanced around the assumption of blunt damage being better against armor. Centipedes have about a third of their sharp armor in blunt armor, so that might be a good point of reference. Lowering the sharp armor by 5% or so might be a good idea too, unless you're comfortable with the idea of assaulters being impervious to anything other than explosives (for reference, .50cal rifles in CR have armor penetration 0.9, the heavy turret added by CR Defence has 1.0, meaning the assaulter with its current value has a 100% chance to resist a .50cal and a 60% chance to resist a 14.5mm shot, making it the equivalent of a military APC's frontal armor).
Although that's just balance stuff, looking through the files this mod has a hard incompatibility anyways since it overrides the heavy charge blaster.
Wait... does that mean I can't play this with combat realism, or does that mean I can but I'll have random issues with balance and stuff?
Quote from: AllenWL on November 14, 2015, 06:33:48 AM
Wait... does that mean I can't play this with combat realism, or does that mean I can but I'll have random issues with balance and stuff?
Balance issues with armor + the charge blaster will behave as in vanilla. I'll probably put out a compatibility patch the next few days though.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on November 14, 2015, 08:43:02 AM
Balance issues with armor + the charge blaster will behave as in vanilla. I'll probably put out a compatibility patch the next few days though.
Hey, thanks for your interest and looking into this. What exactly do you change about the charge blaster? If it's vanilla friendly I could make those changes too.
Quote from: Orion on November 15, 2015, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on November 14, 2015, 08:43:02 AM
Balance issues with armor + the charge blaster will behave as in vanilla. I'll probably put out a compatibility patch the next few days though.
Hey, thanks for your interest and looking into this. What exactly do you change about the charge blaster? If it's vanilla friendly I could make those changes too.
I change basically all the stats of projectiles and guns, add comps and change projectiles' thingClass to Combat_Realism.BulletCR in the BaseBullet. I haven't compared your entries to vanilla so I don't know what changes you made but it would probably be easiest to just merge your changes into my XML entries (simply because there are more things I changed than not).
Here is what my Mechanoid weapons look like:
<ThingDef Name="BaseBullet" Abstract="True">
<category>Projectile</category>
<tickerType>Normal</tickerType>
<altitudeLayer>Projectile</altitudeLayer>
<thingClass>Combat_Realism.BulletCR</thingClass>
<label>bullet</label>
<useHitPoints>False</useHitPoints>
<neverMultiSelect>True</neverMultiSelect>
<graphicData>
<shaderType>Transparent</shaderType>
</graphicData>
</ThingDef>
<!-- ================= Mechanoid weapons ================= -->
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseBullet">
<defName>Bullet_ChargeBlasterHeavy</defName>
<label>charge blaster shot</label>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Projectile/Charge_Small</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
<shaderType>TransparentPostLight</shaderType>
</graphicData>
<projectile>
<damageDef>Bullet</damageDef>
<damageAmountBase>28</damageAmountBase>
<speed>380</speed>
</projectile>
<comps>
<li Class="Combat_Realism.CompProperties_AP">
<compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAP</compClass>
<armorPenetration>1.0</armorPenetration>
</li>
</comps>
</ThingDef>
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseGun">
<defName>Gun_ChargeBlasterHeavy</defName>
<label>heavy charge blaster</label>
<description>Charged-shot blaster for area suppressive fire. Mechanoid-built.</description>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Item/Equipment/WeaponRanged/ChargeBlasterHeavy</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
</graphicData>
<statBases>
<MarketValue>2400</MarketValue>
<AccuracyTouch>0.50</AccuracyTouch>
<AccuracyShort>0.50</AccuracyShort>
<AccuracyMedium>0.85</AccuracyMedium>
<AccuracyLong>0.85</AccuracyLong>
<RangedWeapon_Cooldown>1.5</RangedWeapon_Cooldown>
</statBases>
<tradeability>Never</tradeability>
<techLevel>Spacer</techLevel>
<destroyOnDrop>True</destroyOnDrop>
<menuHidden>True</menuHidden>
<weaponTags>
<li>MechanoidGunHeavy</li>
</weaponTags>
<verbs>
<li>
<verbClass>Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR</verbClass>
<hasStandardCommand>true</hasStandardCommand>
<projectileDef>Bullet_ChargeBlasterHeavy</projectileDef>
<forcedMissRadius>2.9</forcedMissRadius>
<warmupTicks>120</warmupTicks>
<minRange>3</minRange>
<range>93</range>
<ticksBetweenBurstShots>5</ticksBetweenBurstShots>
<burstShotCount>40</burstShotCount>
<soundCast>ShotChargeBlaster</soundCast>
<soundCastTail>GunTail_Heavy</soundCastTail>
<muzzleFlashScale>9</muzzleFlashScale>
</li>
</verbs>
<comps>
<li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom">
<compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass>
<shotVariation>0.04</shotVariation>
<shooterVariation>0.05</shooterVariation>
<recoilOffsetX>(-0.3,0.3)</recoilOffsetX>
<recoilOffsetY>(-0.3,0.3)</recoilOffsetY>
</li>
</comps>
</ThingDef>
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseBullet">
<defName>Bullet_InfernoCannon</defName>
<label>inferno cannon shell</label>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Projectile/InfernoCannonShot</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
<shaderType>TransparentPostLight</shaderType>
</graphicData>
<thingClass>Combat_Realism.ProjectileCR_Explosive</thingClass>
<projectile>
<damageDef>Flame</damageDef>
<damageAmountBase>60</damageAmountBase>
<speed>180</speed>
<explosionRadius>2.4</explosionRadius>
<postExplosionSpawnThingDef>Puddle_Fuel</postExplosionSpawnThingDef>
<explosionSpawnChance>0.3</explosionSpawnChance>
</projectile>
</ThingDef>
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseGun">
<defName>Gun_InfernoCannon</defName>
<label>inferno cannon</label>
<description>Incendiary-shot mini-artillery device. Mechanoid-built.</description>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Item/Equipment/WeaponRanged/InfernoCannon</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
</graphicData>
<statBases>
<MarketValue>2400</MarketValue>
<AccuracyTouch>0.50</AccuracyTouch>
<AccuracyShort>0.50</AccuracyShort>
<AccuracyMedium>0.85</AccuracyMedium>
<AccuracyLong>0.85</AccuracyLong>
<RangedWeapon_Cooldown>6</RangedWeapon_Cooldown>
</statBases>
<tradeability>Never</tradeability>
<techLevel>Spacer</techLevel>
<destroyOnDrop>True</destroyOnDrop>
<menuHidden>True</menuHidden>
<weaponTags>
<li>MechanoidGunHeavy</li>
</weaponTags>
<verbs>
<li>
<verbClass>Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR</verbClass>
<hasStandardCommand>true</hasStandardCommand>
<projectileDef>Bullet_InfernoCannon</projectileDef>
<forcedMissRadius>3.5</forcedMissRadius>
<ai_IsIncendiary>true</ai_IsIncendiary>
<warmupTicks>100</warmupTicks>
<minRange>3</minRange>
<range>80</range>
<burstShotCount>1</burstShotCount>
<soundCast>InfernoCannon_Fire</soundCast>
<soundCastTail>GunTail_Light</soundCastTail>
<muzzleFlashScale>14</muzzleFlashScale>
</li>
</verbs>
<comps>
<li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom">
<compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass>
<shotVariation>0.02</shotVariation>
<shooterVariation>0.05</shooterVariation>
<recoilOffsetX>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetX>
<recoilOffsetY>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetY>
</li>
</comps>
</ThingDef>
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseBullet">
<defName>Bullet_ChargeLance</defName>
<label>charge lance shot</label>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Projectile/ChargeLanceShot</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
<shaderType>TransparentPostLight</shaderType>
<drawSize>(3,3)</drawSize>
</graphicData>
<projectile>
<damageDef>Bullet</damageDef>
<damageAmountBase>28</damageAmountBase>
<speed>400</speed>
</projectile>
<comps>
<li Class="Combat_Realism.CompProperties_AP">
<compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAP</compClass>
<armorPenetration>0.9</armorPenetration>
</li>
</comps>
</ThingDef>
<ThingDef ParentName="BaseGun">
<defName>Gun_ChargeLance</defName>
<label>charge lance</label>
<description>Charged-shot rail-assisted lance weapon. Fires a single charged shot at high velocity.</description>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Item/Equipment/WeaponRanged/ChargeLance</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
</graphicData>
<statBases>
<MarketValue>2000</MarketValue>
<AccuracyTouch>0.50</AccuracyTouch>
<AccuracyShort>0.50</AccuracyShort>
<AccuracyMedium>0.85</AccuracyMedium>
<AccuracyLong>0.85</AccuracyLong>
<RangedWeapon_Cooldown>0.5</RangedWeapon_Cooldown>
</statBases>
<tradeability>Never</tradeability>
<techLevel>Spacer</techLevel>
<destroyOnDrop>True</destroyOnDrop>
<menuHidden>True</menuHidden>
<weaponTags>
<li>MechanoidGunMedium</li>
</weaponTags>
<verbs>
<li>
<verbClass>Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR</verbClass>
<hasStandardCommand>true</hasStandardCommand>
<projectileDef>Bullet_ChargeLance</projectileDef>
<warmupTicks>120</warmupTicks>
<range>120</range>
<burstShotCount>1</burstShotCount>
<soundCast>ChargeLance_Fire</soundCast>
<soundCastTail>GunTail_Heavy</soundCastTail>
<muzzleFlashScale>9</muzzleFlashScale>
</li>
</verbs>
<comps>
<li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom">
<compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass>
<shotVariation>0.017</shotVariation>
<shooterVariation>0.05</shooterVariation>
<recoilOffsetX>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetX>
<recoilOffsetY>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetY>
</li>
</comps>
</ThingDef>Edit: after looking into the changes made by More Mechanoids it looks like the only non-conflicting change is a tag change to the Inferno cannon.
No wonder why the centipedes carrying a Charge Blaster seem to behave just like vanilla ones during a fight, while the Minigun one is more attentive and agressive, shooting from over 100 squares away and shredding everything to bits withing the crossfire lmao.
@Orion, I think I found aother thing to note about your Mammoth that slipped past me for some odd reason. Mammoth's seem to spawn with Old Injurys, like... Stab Scars on their legs and body, and they usually spawn a lot of these injurys too. I do not know what causes it yet, I havent found time to play RimWorld for a week now.
Quote from: Komyets on November 16, 2015, 05:14:59 PM
Mammoth's seem to spawn with Old Injurys, like... Stab Scars on their legs and body, and they usually spawn a lot of these injurys too.
I noticed that too, but didn't give it much thought. Makes them look more ancient and worn, so I didn't mind.
bout the armored mechanoids, the AGS and mortars do the job pretty nicely, and u can install AGS anywhere w/o having to power it up. (havent tested hand grenades yet) so i think, its ok balanced.
the only thing, i think that an anti-tank rifle would be nice to deal with em (which combat realism lacks).
tho, it would be logical that assaulters should be invulnerable from front but have weak back, but i guess its not possible in rimworld.
about the deteriorating crawlers, its a pain when u start to play "wack a mole" with repairing them instead of enjoing the game. maybe once u activate "repair mode" they should always come for repairs asap, w/o further watching over them?
Quote from: devilyn on November 25, 2015, 01:59:18 PM
about the deteriorating crawlers, its a pain when u start to play "wack a mole" with repairing them instead of enjoing the game. maybe once u activate "repair mode" they should always come for repairs asap, w/o further watching over them?
Then they'd not get much done, I suppose.
But maybe I could lower the threshold before they get repaired automatically a bit.
Quote from: Orion on October 26, 2015, 10:53:59 AM
Quote from: Tekuromoto on October 25, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
I love this mod, but I'm having a problem now that my colony is humming along and I have a few crawlers chipped for hauling: if there's nothing for them to haul, the game lags like mad. If I toggle them to stop working and stay home, the lagginess stops.
Any thoughts? I'm running a slew of mods but I'm hoping it's not a conflict. ::)
Hm. I'll take a look at the corresponding code, but I'm not experiencing the problem myself, so there's a good chance it's a conflict. Are you getting error messages when it happens?
Good Day,
I seem to be having the same problem. However, it doesn't seem to just be the crawlers. I have 4 mining centipedes, 4 growing centipedes, 2 crawler cleaners, 3 crawler haulers, 1 doctor, 4 cooks and one cutter (if i remember correctly). If I have them all active my i5 grinds to a halt. If I have about 3 active then I already notice a slight lag spike every second or so. With the haulers, even one, it basically locks up.
I think that there is something there that just doesn't compute correctly. For some or other reason I also think it might have to do with the AI path-thing of these mechs.
Quote from: OmagaIII on December 07, 2015, 10:25:45 AM
I seem to be having the same problem. However, it doesn't seem to just be the crawlers. I have 4 mining centipedes, 4 growing centipedes, 2 crawler cleaners, 3 crawler haulers, 1 doctor, 4 cooks and one cutter (if i remember correctly). If I have them all active my i5 grinds to a halt. If I have about 3 active then I already notice a slight lag spike every second or so. With the haulers, even one, it basically locks up.
I think that there is something there that just doesn't compute correctly. For some or other reason I also think it might have to do with the AI path-thing of these mechs.
This sounds like a mod conflict, or you're using a very large map. With the same amount of mechanoids I don't have any slowdowns here.
I wouldn't know which mods are causing this, though. Are you getting any error messages in the console?
Quote from: Orion on December 07, 2015, 11:33:44 AM
Quote from: OmagaIII on December 07, 2015, 10:25:45 AM
I seem to be having the same problem. However, it doesn't seem to just be the crawlers. I have 4 mining centipedes, 4 growing centipedes, 2 crawler cleaners, 3 crawler haulers, 1 doctor, 4 cooks and one cutter (if i remember correctly). If I have them all active my i5 grinds to a halt. If I have about 3 active then I already notice a slight lag spike every second or so. With the haulers, even one, it basically locks up.
I think that there is something there that just doesn't compute correctly. For some or other reason I also think it might have to do with the AI path-thing of these mechs.
This sounds like a mod conflict, or you're using a very large map. With the same amount of mechanoids I don't have any slowdowns here.
I wouldn't know which mods are causing this, though. Are you getting any error messages in the console?
I'll have a look at the log and provide feedback asap.
My friend and I both experienced some odd behavior with this modpack. She had some mechanoids spawn inside of a cryptosleep casket chamber and actually tunnel out to attack her, instead of waiting for her to break through. I had some in a chamber that I broke into, which would constantly return to the chamber to "sleep" and only fight when attacked. Furthering the oddness with mine, the crawler showed the owned interface (the skullywag did not) and claimed to be assigned to growing... But cut off a colonist's toe when he went next to it. Now that it's dead, I can rechip it to hauling or cleaning, but I don't have the option to keep it assigned to growing?
Note that we're playing with the same mods, but it is rather heavily modded (about 14 or so total, most small). The only one I can think of that would actually touch the same stuff would be MD2, if you've had any reports of conflicts disregard this post.
Quote from: theapolaustic1 on December 09, 2015, 10:09:30 AM
My friend and I both experienced some odd behavior with this modpack. She had some mechanoids spawn inside of a cryptosleep casket chamber and actually tunnel out to attack her, instead of waiting for her to break through. I had some in a chamber that I broke into, which would constantly return to the chamber to "sleep" and only fight when attacked. Furthering the oddness with mine, the crawler showed the owned interface (the skullywag did not) and claimed to be assigned to growing... But cut off a colonist's toe when he went next to it. Now that it's dead, I can rechip it to hauling or cleaning, but I don't have the option to keep it assigned to growing?
Note that we're playing with the same mods, but it is rather heavily modded (about 14 or so total, most small). The only one I can think of that would actually touch the same stuff would be MD2, if you've had any reports of conflicts disregard this post.
The cryptosleep problems you're describing here are probably not due to a conflict. I never had real trouble with those things, so I didn't bother fixing them. It's caused by RimWorld just picking random kinds of mechanoids and stuffing them into the crypts, including converted ones. If a converted mechanoid was spawned and not created by chipping, it just gets a random ability, therefore the crawler with growing.
I think it would be best to just have them remove themselves again when they are not properly created. But so far I felt my time was better spent on other things.
sick idea generator: what if we had a hauling centipede with great lifting capacity, with manual destination choosing (like setting a beacon).
Just a question. I remember there being talk about this and combat realism not working together very well, and talks about possibly making a patch for the two. Is there one, or should I just play?
Quote from: AllenWL on December 12, 2015, 03:20:31 AM
Just a question. I remember there being talk about this and combat realism not working together very well, and talks about possibly making a patch for the two. Is there one, or should I just play?
do u mean that smaller firearms cant scratch armored mechs? explosions still do. makes it more .. 'realistic' heh.
im playing with both (+RimFire) and loving it.
Quote from: theapolaustic1 on December 09, 2015, 10:09:30 AM
My friend and I both experienced some odd behavior with this modpack. She had some mechanoids spawn inside of a cryptosleep casket chamber and actually tunnel out to attack her, instead of waiting for her to break through. I had some in a chamber that I broke into, which would constantly return to the chamber to "sleep" and only fight when attacked. Furthering the oddness with mine, the crawler showed the owned interface (the skullywag did not) and claimed to be assigned to growing... But cut off a colonist's toe when he went next to it. Now that it's dead, I can rechip it to hauling or cleaning, but I don't have the option to keep it assigned to growing?
Note that we're playing with the same mods, but it is rather heavily modded (about 14 or so total, most small). The only one I can think of that would actually touch the same stuff would be MD2, if you've had any reports of conflicts disregard this post.
I have the same problem and when it happens to a new colony it is a total disaster. I am playing with "crashlanding" and even having some weapons saved I can't do a thing to those armored monsters in early game.
Quote from: Grimandevil on December 12, 2015, 07:15:21 AM
Quote from: AllenWL on December 12, 2015, 03:20:31 AM
Just a question. I remember there being talk about this and combat realism not working together very well, and talks about possibly making a patch for the two. Is there one, or should I just play?
do u mean that smaller firearms cant scratch armored mechs? explosions still do. makes it more .. 'realistic' heh.
im playing with both (+RimFire) and loving it.
Not just the armor balance thingy, but more of the charge blaster incompatibility thingy. Apparently, with both this mod and CR, the charge blaster will act like in vanilla, and I'm not quite sure I like that. I'm
really fond of the new projectile system thing. Well, both are pretty minor and I guess I can hallways spam mortar shells from a distance.
Quote from: Warforyou on December 12, 2015, 01:07:14 PM
I have the same problem and when it happens to a new colony it is a total disaster. I am playing with "crashlanding" and even having some weapons saved I can't do a thing to those armored monsters in early game.
It sounds to me like Crashlanding is the culprit here. Not sure what it does to enable this problem.
Quote from: AllenWL on December 12, 2015, 03:20:31 AM
Just a question. I remember there being talk about this and combat realism not working together very well, and talks about possibly making a patch for the two. Is there one, or should I just play?
You can read the 15-posts-long discussion from page 33
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9221.msg181646#msg181646 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9221.msg181646#msg181646) here that may contain all the details for your questions regarding this subject ^^
Quote from: Warforyou on December 12, 2015, 01:07:14 PM
Quote from: theapolaustic1 on December 09, 2015, 10:09:30 AM
My friend and I both experienced some odd behavior with this modpack. She had some mechanoids spawn inside of a cryptosleep casket chamber and actually tunnel out to attack her, instead of waiting for her to break through. I had some in a chamber that I broke into, which would constantly return to the chamber to "sleep" and only fight when attacked. Furthering the oddness with mine, the crawler showed the owned interface (the skullywag did not) and claimed to be assigned to growing... But cut off a colonist's toe when he went next to it. Now that it's dead, I can rechip it to hauling or cleaning, but I don't have the option to keep it assigned to growing?
Note that we're playing with the same mods, but it is rather heavily modded (about 14 or so total, most small). The only one I can think of that would actually touch the same stuff would be MD2, if you've had any reports of conflicts disregard this post.
I have the same problem and when it happens to a new colony it is a total disaster. I am playing with "crashlanding" and even having some weapons saved I can't do a thing to those armored monsters in early game.
I don't have crashlanding at all and the same thing has happened. That and the ridiculous slow down of the game to a crawl when you have your own mechs working for you. Forces me to return them home otherwise I can't play.
However, this that you mention here has happened to me 3 times. Also, they spawn inside mountain bases and start tunneling out. Usually only a few mins or so after landing on a planet.
Quote from: OmagaIII on December 31, 2015, 07:35:22 AM
However, this that you mention here has happened to me 3 times. Also, they spawn inside mountain bases and start tunneling out. Usually only a few mins or so after landing on a planet.
I'm sorry you're experiencing all these problems. I haven't experienced these issues myself yet. Do you have any other mods installed that may cause this behavior somehow?
Here's a small update for the most critical issues.
Changelog
1.07b - 31.12.2015
- Charging platform now connects by cable
- Deterioration lowered for inner parts
- Additional automatic repair check based on total health of mechanoids
- Buttons for stay home and full repair that affect all mechanoids
- Converted mechanoids that spawn in crypts are killed right away
- Armor tweaked for Realistic Combat Mod
Quote from: Orion on December 31, 2015, 03:39:28 PM
Here's a small update for the most critical issues.
Changelog
1.07b - 31.12.2015
- Charging platform now connects by cable
- Deterioration lowered for inner parts
- Additional automatic repair check based on total health of mechanoids
- Buttons for stay home and full repair that affect all mechanoids
- Converted mechanoids that spawn in crypts are killed right away
- Armor tweaked for Realistic Combat Mod
The download linik redirects to an old version (1.07) instead of 1.07b.
Quote from: MechanoidHater on January 01, 2016, 09:52:08 AM
The download linik redirects to an old version (1.07) instead of 1.07b.
Thanks! You're right! Should be good now...
I see the new update uses the tweaked armor values I provided, I'm glad to be of help, bro! Im sorry though... I hope you didn't feel forced to tweak the stuff that way because of me. Can I ask if something was done with the apparent conflict with the Charge Blaster as well?
Quote from: Komyets on January 02, 2016, 02:49:50 PM
I see the new update uses the tweaked armor values I provided, I'm glad to be of help, bro! Im sorry though... I hope you didn't feel forced to tweak the stuff that way because of me. Can I ask if something was done with the apparent conflict with the Charge Blaster as well?
They use them, thanks for providing them! I've tried them myself now, using the realistic combat mod and it seems pretty balanced this way.
I haven't done anything about the Charge Blaster though. Somehow I feel it's not important enough right now. If someone has a good idea how to deal with it, I'd be up for looking into it.
anyone know where the deterioration rate file is, i want to edit the idle rate of deterioration so my mechs don`t have to get repaired when they arnt doing any thing.
If you put them on a charge pad, it's zero...
The file is called "PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml".
Quote from: Orion on January 15, 2016, 04:26:35 PM
If you put them on a charge pad, it's zero...
The file is called "PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml".
aaaahhhhhh..... I was wondering what those were for. Thank you!
I note the charge pad discretion reads "Allows converted mechanoids to sleep save and sound". I think you meant 'sleep safe and sound'? Unless you meant 'sleep, save, and sound' of course.
Also, tried it with combat realism. I think it works fine. The mammoth was a scare-kept on coming after taking like what, 30+ bullets(and not pistol bullets or anything of the like either. Assault and charge rifle bullets. Shrugged it right off till we broke it's legs)? Though it was pretty slow. Backing up and shooting worked fine. It's melee attack is nuts though. Pretty much one-hit-one-kill.
Quote from: AllenWL on January 21, 2016, 11:55:59 PM
I note the charge pad discretion reads "Allows converted mechanoids to sleep save and sound". I think you meant 'sleep safe and sound'? Unless you meant 'sleep, save, and sound' of course.
Ah, thanks, good catch!
Quote from: AllenWL on January 21, 2016, 11:55:59 PM
Also, tried it with combat realism. I think it works fine. The mammoth was a scare-kept on coming after taking like what, 30+ bullets(and not pistol bullets or anything of the like either. Assault and charge rifle bullets. Shrugged it right off till we broke it's legs)? Though it was pretty slow. Backing up and shooting worked fine. It's melee attack is nuts though. Pretty much one-hit-one-kill.
That was the idea, force the player to change tactics. I always thought the tactics against the vanilla Mechanoids, take good cover and try to snipe them for an hour, was very boring.
Would be cool if RimWorld would allow the player to set specific aiming targets on enemies. So you could take out the legs specifically, or go for the eyes first, or whatnot.
Quote from: Orion on January 22, 2016, 04:39:05 AM
Would be cool if RimWorld would allow the player to set specific aiming targets on enemies. So you could take out the legs specifically, or go for the eyes first, or whatnot.
chances are, that Combat Realism will evolve to do that.
Quote from: Orion on January 22, 2016, 04:39:05 AM
That was the idea, force the player to change tactics. I always thought the tactics against the vanilla Mechanoids, take good cover and try to snipe them for an hour, was very boring.
Would be cool if RimWorld would allow the player to set specific aiming targets on enemies. So you could take out the legs specifically, or go for the eyes first, or whatnot.
I'm not quite sure about the force bit, but it does mix things up. I would certainly not want to snipe the mammoth or crawlers. One's too sturdy, other's too fast. The best way I find is to let crawlers come then melee them(one-hit-kill with a good weapon), and use things like assult rifles on the mammoth.
However, currently, there are still much methods that can be used as a 'key for all locks'. Snipers from afar will probably be effective still, if not a bit dicey(not like there'll be a mammoth in every fight, right?). And getting up solid defences and pouring down lead or kill boxes will still work.
I feel like mechanoids should be ultra-specialized to their task, kinda like mammoths and crawlers, meaning a tactic that worked great on one might not work very well against another, and might just not work at all against a certain mechanoid or a mix of two or more types. Both are melee types, but one is a heavy tank-type, soaking up hits, and the other is a (very) light skirmish type. Both do the same thing go in and disrupt your firing lines and/or draw fire, but in different ways.
For example, a sniper bot that's slow and mildly armored, but is very accurate and can snipe from far away. This would negate the 'sit and snipe' technique as you'll just get sniped right back.
A 'anti-building' mechanoid-maybe a heavy siege type or a light sabotage type that can either lumber over and knock down walls or rush in and deconstruct defences would mean that you'll need to rely on colonists a lot more.
And so on.
im thinking of the halo's flood for inspiration here, but why not have a mechanoid, basically an upgraded syther, and say it has super reactive nano skin or somthing fancy like that, and that sniper bullets just pass harmlessly through it. this means that a player relying entirely on snipers to defend is imedietly screwed if just one of these spawns. this means the player can never rely wholy on snipers, but needs a mix of other weapons to cover all bases.
Quote from: killer117 on January 27, 2016, 07:59:42 AM
...
what makes a bullet from a sniper rifle so special, compared to any other firearm? not counting agvanced tech stuff.
a bullet from a sniper rifle as opposed to a pistol round for example, is a high velocity round. thats what makes sniper round even more dangerous than a regular bullet, they go much faster. thats why in halo the 50. cal leaves a vapour trail when it fires. the idea is that the flood are so maleable and purmeable that a sniper round can penetrate right through them and do absolutely no damage whatsoever. what if you make a robot out of a matirial like that, then snipers couldn't hurt it.
But if it's so soft that a sniper bullet does no damage, how will anything else do damage? I mean, if being penetrated does nothing to it, I doubt being cut or having a bullet lodged in it will do much damage either.
Won't it be better to give it a long-ranged gun and armor that's really effective against bullets, but give it a really weak melee attack to encourage people to melee it or something?
that would work fine. im just trying to think up a crative solution to the problem. and shotgun rounds, minigun rounds and handgun rounds all travel at relatively low speeds, and do much more damage to a target that sniper rounds simply bypass, and to make it dangerous, give it a medium range decent damage weapon. it makes no difference to its shooting ability if its permeable. or maybe have it like a lot of body but some very small low percentage chance inner structure, so its super unlikely sniper rounds will damage it, but pour enough firepower in and you'll hit something important eventually.
creative (facepalm)
I made a hauler crawler so I my base doesn't have stuff everywhere. Turns out a crawler only carries 15 items at a time. My base still has stuff everywhere.
Should have gotten a cleaner instead...
Quote from: AllenWL on January 30, 2016, 06:21:13 AM
Should have gotten a cleaner instead...
they compensate it with speed, and still can haul solid objects.
i wish small creatures, like monkeys or small dogs(forgot the name), could do the same..
The crash rate goes above 25% about every 3~4 days, which slows it down a lot, it takes 5 trips per stack, and for some reason, keeps on ignoring all the hops and corn and cloth rotting and deteriorating on the ground.
Well, on a positive note, it also cremates corpses, which is a huge boon for my colonist's mental stability.
mental stability, when has that ever been a problem.
"jeff, put down the knife. jeff come on man, we talk bout it over a game of horeshoes. jeff please. jeff nooooooooooooo........"
annnnnnnd another colony bites the dust.
Looks like some jobs make mechanoids deteriorate faster?
I note that the charge blaster and internal charge blaster for some reason acts like vanilla rimworld weapons when used with combat realism, and exhibits the astounding ability to go through walls.
Also, assaulter is more or less unkillable in combat realism it seems. My sniper rifle and LMG, both which are of good quality, does exactly 1 damage when it hits. A body part on average has like, 20, 40 hp, and the 'front shield' has 200.
Interesting. I didn't have a problem with this. Might the order in which you load both mods make a difference?
I have more mechanoids load after combat realism. If I make more mechanoids load before combat realism, the 'mods are incompatible or corrupted' message pops up.
I found a workaround though(sorta). burns still deals 6 damage, so lots of molotovs and incendiary launchers can take them out without hitting them a hundred+ times.
Quote from: AllenWL on February 27, 2016, 09:36:12 AM
I found a workaround though(sorta). burns still deals 6 damage, so lots of molotovs and incendiary launchers can take them out without hitting them a hundred+ times.
explosive fragments(hand grenades, AGS, grenade launcher(if u're using RimFire)) work pretty nice against them. direct hit(or two) pretty much kills them.
also, theres some heavy sniper rifles in RimFire.
I'm using Skullywags weapon packs (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=13992.0), myself.
I don't like weapon mods that much, so I tend to stick with vanilla weapons.
Been testing this with a CR patch and had two encounters with skullywags now. Both times they decided to ignore any and all colonists nearby and beelined straight for my doors. They ran all over the colony opening them, even after getting shot. Is this normal behavior?
They are meant to be a bit more nuanced, but generally, that's what they do, yeah.
Hm... Do crawlers break faster in cold climates? I mean, Mine were breaking down super quick, repeatedly even when inside on their charger base things?
Quote from: Beathrus on March 07, 2016, 01:36:00 PM
Hm... Do crawlers break faster in cold climates? I mean, Mine were breaking down super quick, repeatedly even when inside on their charger base things?
Not that I was aware of. Crawlers do break pretty quick, though. If the chargers are powered, they shouldn't deteriorate on them, though. So this sounds like a bug.
bug report for the mod.
Random bug, sometimes, ancient danger areas start to spamm by themselves, the mechanoids there get active and start to dig and come to my colony. One time they did that in all areas, 1 month after landing. My defense strategy was to kill mechanoids with bows (no need to ask if it worked).
What kinds of things would this mod conflict with?
Quick question, I use the 'Haul' mod, that allows things to haul using carts... Would that cause the Crawlers to deteriorate faster? Because.. These guys break extremely fast, like... I have had a few up and running for a in game day now, and they already have a 40% crash chance.
Quote from: Agalyon on March 09, 2016, 01:09:42 PM
What kinds of things would this mod conflict with?
Anything to do with Mechanoids.
Quote from: Beathrus on March 10, 2016, 02:15:06 PM
Quick question, I use the 'Haul' mod, that allows things to haul using carts... Would that cause the Crawlers to deteriorate faster? Because.. These guys break extremely fast, like... I have had a few up and running for a in game day now, and they already have a 40% crash chance.
I think not. But they're pretty fragile to begin with. They move around the most and have the least hitpoints. So I hope you have someone on repair duty ;)
Quote from: Orion on March 12, 2016, 06:06:05 AM
Quote from: Agalyon on March 09, 2016, 01:09:42 PM
What kinds of things would this mod conflict with?
Anything to do with Mechanoids.
Quote from: Beathrus on March 10, 2016, 02:15:06 PM
Quick question, I use the 'Haul' mod, that allows things to haul using carts... Would that cause the Crawlers to deteriorate faster? Because.. These guys break extremely fast, like... I have had a few up and running for a in game day now, and they already have a 40% crash chance.
I think not. But they're pretty fragile to begin with. They move around the most and have the least hitpoints. So I hope you have someone on repair duty ;)
I do. x.x But yeah, I need to start a new game already; Take out 'auto equip' or something, my colonist drop everything to put on new gear, and for an hour or two ignore other duties to swap gear. So sometimes they just flat out ignore the bots and go about other tasks for crafting. :/ I wish I could update the 'priority' of the repairs for the lil crawlers. Or set like, another bot to just 'repair' duty. Maybe a flame bot, modified to be a repair bot.
Quote from: Beathrus on March 12, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
Or set like, another bot to just 'repair' duty. Maybe a flame bot, modified to be a repair bot.
that is actually a really good idea. bots that repair bots. (unless the ocasiaonal "who will repair the repairer" ;D)
as for me, i usually have Haplo's MAI set on repair duty.
Quote from: Grimandevil on March 12, 2016, 03:51:15 PM
Quote from: Beathrus on March 12, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
Or set like, another bot to just 'repair' duty. Maybe a flame bot, modified to be a repair bot.
that is actually a really good idea. bots that repair bots. (unless the ocasiaonal "who will repair the repairer" ;D)
as for me, i usually have Haplo's MAI set on repair duty.
Mhm, doesn't help my bots seem to like breaking down in awkward places. x.x
Breaking down is not the same as "dying". It just means they temporarily stop for a few seconds and continue from there. It's the best way I could think of to nerf their ability to work day and night, without requiring... well.. anything in return for it.
I guess bots repairing bots is acceptable, although probably that would then need to be balanced with something else. Like requiring spare parts for repairs.
Quote from: Orion on March 13, 2016, 04:07:13 AM
Breaking down is not the same as "dying". It just means they temporarily stop for a few seconds and continue from there. It's the best way I could think of to nerf their ability to work day and night, without requiring... well.. anything in return for it.
I guess bots repairing bots is acceptable, although probably that would then need to be balanced with something else. Like requiring spare parts for repairs.
Why not require a bit of steel? Depending on the size of the bot that is. And its more the problem that the priority to work on the bot is low. :/ Like, if I could set the bot a charger station like its own 'bed', and then set a 'priority' for when it needs to be repaired, so my crafter doesn't skip them and go back to crafting whatever they were before that would be great. Or if I could click on a unit to 'return crawler to charger station', for when my crafter has time to actually repair it, that would be great.
Quote from: Orion on March 13, 2016, 04:07:13 AM
I guess bots repairing bots is acceptable, although probably that would then need to be balanced with something else. Like requiring spare parts for repairs.
add in 'decontsruct for parts' job, alongside disassembling
(actually, would be vice versa). u receive universal mech parts, that u cannot use for anything else but for repairs (well, selling to a robot trader maybe).
no free plasteel.
Quote from: Beathrus on March 13, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
And its more the problem that the priority to work on the bot is low. :/ Like, if I could set the bot a charger station like its own 'bed', and then set a 'priority' for when it needs to be repaired, so my crafter doesn't skip them and go back to crafting whatever they were before that would be great. Or if I could click on a unit to 'return crawler to charger station', for when my crafter has time to actually repair it, that would be great.
isnt Repair of a higher priority than crafting? if given the same priority value.
Quote from: Grimandevil on March 13, 2016, 03:28:06 PM
add in 'decontsruct for parts' job, alongside disassembling (actually, would be vice versa). u receive universal mech parts, that u cannot use for anything else but for repairs (well, selling to a robot trader maybe).
no free plasteel.
This is indeed what I had in mind too. But it's some amount of work to do, and for some reason I can't bring up the motivation to do it these days. I think I even made the icon already (like a year ago).
Quote from: Grimandevil on March 13, 2016, 03:28:06 PM
isnt Repair of a higher priority than crafting? if given the same priority value.
It is a higher priority indeed.
fair enough.
Update this mod for A13 version please, this was one of most awesome additional factions mod
Quote from: Korn.Mil on April 13, 2016, 03:42:18 PM
Update this mod for A13 version please, this was one of most awesome additional factions mod
That's nice to hear! But I'm looking at some 50-100 hours of work to update it and get all the kinks out. This will take a lot of time.
Probably I'll do it step by step. First the different enemies, and later being able to convert them - this will take the longest time. For now I'm busy with the Hospitality mod, though.
Quote from: Orion on April 13, 2016, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: Korn.Mil on April 13, 2016, 03:42:18 PM
Update this mod for A13 version please, this was one of most awesome additional factions mod
That's nice to hear! But I'm looking at some 50-100 hours of work to update it and get all the kinks out. This will take a lot of time.
Probably I'll do it step by step. First the different enemies, and later being able to convert them - this will take the longest time. For now I'm busy with the Hospitality mod, though.
Ooh... Thats pretty sad actually, i liked this mod becouse its gives you so much of troubles, enemies was really tough, especially these things (i dont remember name) who are not affected by bullets or stab/blunt damage, only by explosives. They maked most of troubles. So i had another mod with mounted turrets where some of them shooting explosive shells, but when my colonist going to operate a turret, these lil motherfu***** just taked them out ;D and my expensive turrets just always exploded.
For those who find repairing robots are annoying. Go to \RimWorld914Win\Mods\MoreMechanoids\Defs\PawnKindDefs\PawnKinds_Mechanoid.xml
modify the numbers between
<minTimeBeforeDeteriorate> and </maxTimeBeforeDeteriorate> 10 or 100 times bigger
:)
Quote from: Orion on April 13, 2016, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: Korn.Mil on April 13, 2016, 03:42:18 PM
Update this mod for A13 version please, this was one of most awesome additional factions mod
That's nice to hear! But I'm looking at some 50-100 hours of work to update it and get all the kinks out. This will take a lot of time.
Probably I'll do it step by step. First the different enemies, and later being able to convert them - this will take the longest time. For now I'm busy with the Hospitality mod, though.
Just writing to say this mod looks really interesting. I saw Aavak playing with it on YT, and it really adds a great element to the game.
Sadly, I keep forgetting to keep previous iterations of Rimworld, and end up deleting them, so only have the latest alpha. Thanks for putting in so much work. The moment you've updated this, I'll be starting a new game!
Cheers
Does anybody works on this mod release? I am very excited
Quote from: Korn.Mil on April 23, 2016, 07:33:49 AM
Does anybody works on this mod release? I am very excited
Well, there is only me, and if you look at the source code (and def files), you'll see that it's one hell of a job to update to this alpha. And to be honest, Tynan doesn't exactly make it easy for us to keep mods up to date.
I can now cut some corners with method injection, which will save me quite some time, but it also increases the chance that the mod becomes incompatible with others that do the same.
For now I'm working on Hospitality. Once that's good enough, I might find more time for this.
Awesome Mod Dude all Your mechanoid are Great and You need a Big Guns to destroy them
Review Down Below
Texture = Great
Movement = Great
Damage = Great
Gear = Great
Destroying my Whole Base = Awesome no colonist alive LOL
Rate
100/100
Is there a ETA on when you'll update this to the latest? going to miss this mod :-\
Quote from: Techgenius on May 17, 2016, 08:53:40 PM
Is there a ETA on when you'll update this to the latest? going to miss this mod :-\
Updating this mod is quite a task, as you can see if you look at the amount of def files and the huge source code. To make things worse, I haven't even begun updating it, since I first want to get the Hospitality mod to work well and be balanced, so at least users of one of my mods can have a good time ;)
So ETA... I would say somewhere around A14 :-\
Sorry about this, but A13 just comes with so many changes that I want to refactor the More Mechanoid code base using Detours and get rid of everything that's not necessary then, which hopefully will make future updates easier again.
Quote from: Orion on May 18, 2016, 04:23:57 AM
Quote from: Techgenius on May 17, 2016, 08:53:40 PM
Is there a ETA on when you'll update this to the latest? going to miss this mod :-\
Updating this mod is quite a task, as you can see if you look at the amount of def files and the huge source code. To make things worse, I haven't even begun updating it, since I first want to get the Hospitality mod to work well and be balanced, so at least users of one of my mods can have a good time ;)
So ETA... I would say somewhere around A14 :-\
Sorry about this, but A13 just comes with so many changes that I want to refactor the More Mechanoid code base using Detours and get rid of everything that's not necessary then, which hopefully will make future updates easier again.
I use Hospitality, and I must say, you've outdone yourself, now.. if you only added double beds to allow npc couples to.. :-*
Now it seems like a good Hotel/Motel alternative, cuz' you'll be making silver, that.. plus more faction spawns is.. immersive. So I'm glad you're putting Hospitality development a priority, now.. if you only included my "[Mod Request] Neural Implants" somewhere in there.. that'd be great too. Going to PM you with some ideas if you don' mind.
The Mechanoids are bugged anyway.. if you have glitterworld, orion tanks will spawn together with mechanoids.
Quote from: Techgenius on May 18, 2016, 01:33:34 PM
I use Hospitality, and I must say, you've outdone yourself, now.. if you only added double beds to allow npc couples to.. :-*
Even if I added doublebeds, I'd probably have to fix this mechanic "manually". It's deeply embedded in RimWorld's source code for what I can tell. So getting that to work is tricky at best. I'd rather not spend so much time on a feature that will only rarely do something.
Quote from: Techgenius on May 18, 2016, 01:33:34 PM
Now it seems like a good Hotel/Motel alternative, cuz' you'll be making silver, that.. plus more faction spawns is.. immersive. So I'm glad you're putting Hospitality development a priority, now.. if you only included my "[Mod Request] Neural Implants" somewhere in there.. that'd be great too. Going to PM you with some ideas if you don' mind.
The neural implants idea sounds to me like it can better be a separate mod. If "serving guests" is a properly implemented job, then it would also work for mindless slaves.
Why not using components to fix worn mechs? They're kind of 'universal delicate, intricate stuff' based on the description. Maybe you sbould tweak disassembly to produce components.
That is if you actually update to A13 and not skip it (;-;)
I am definitely going to skip it. Updating this mod is a lot of work and right now I don't have the time or energy to do it.
Once I do I will indeed use components to fix mechanoids. I'll see if I can use the core breakdown system for it as well - so mechanoids will break just like doors and other devices.
That'll let me kick out the convoluted wear & tear system I'm using right now.
But yeah, it looks like I will have to start over anyway. A lot has changed since I originally made the mod and I will probably do a lot of things different now. So most likely I'll start over in steps. The mechanoid enemies first, and converting them later.
will be there a alpha14 version? hope so this mod is awesome!
Quote from: Mechfried on July 24, 2016, 08:41:57 PM
will be there a alpha14 version? hope so this mod is awesome!
I was hoping so too! But then I realized that I was the one who had to do it.
But serious - since RimWorld is out on Steam I've been "fulltime" busy keeping my other mod working. I haven't even looked at this mod for months :-[
When I find time again, I'll see if I at least bring the different mechanoid types back. The whole converting thing will take bundles of extra time. I might not do it at all, even though it was pretty awesome while it lasted.
just a reminder that we need more mechs (dont care about conversion)
Agreed 👍
Maybe I'll throw my next vacation into it. Until then...
I could feel your pain when I looked at them research defs you'll need to change, it is a beast, but if you manage to slay it, you'll have more gratitude than you need. I promise.
Thanks :) but that's the least part... The body and thing defs are nastier. But they still don't compare to the awful code the conversion requires.
But this time I've got help, so who knows if it will actually be playable again some day.
I wonder if it isn't easier to just make a new mod, instead converting all those huge chunks of outdated datachunks you make new, it might just be simplier, cleaner without the chance of something blowing up, also you got all the references and resources already to build upon and now that you have help, maybe you two could use these references and make a new mod, you do the body defs, your help does the thing defs and slowly you two remake more mechanoids or a new name, a on the side thing. While you two support and improve the other big mods.
Well to be honest I hardly play a role in the update. I will probably maintain it again afterwards, though.
It might be better to start over for some parts, less for others. Reinventing the wheel costs time too.
it is all about time, some of the more intricate or hard parts might be indeed better starting over, I'm half tempted to see if the mod will still work in A16, but I might just break something. Better to wait and see then, I miss this mod very much, its substitutes are not of the same quality.
Trust me, it won't even start up.
Well... damn. There has been so many rimworld updates already, and more incoming . I keep thinking the longer it takes, more unsalvageable the mod might become, but you're the master. You know the facts
Well you're definitely right about that.
Would love to see this mod for A16/17, i remember when i was playing with it long time ago, its a great mod, sad its already forgotten
Believe me, it's not forgotten.
I loved Assaulter mechanoid :D it was impossible to destroy him without explosives. It was not affected by bullets at all
may we get an update on the progress of the mod?
Hang in there OP, i've had my eye on this ol beaut since i started rimworld in a16, knew she was too good to kick the bucket yet.
I really miss this mod :/
Quote from: Korn.Mil on April 09, 2017, 02:12:49 PM
I loved Assaulter mechanoid :D it was impossible to destroy him without explosives. It was not affected by bullets at all
I remember playing this with combat realism.
The assaulter was downright unbeatable as most bullets would just bounce off, and whatever managed to hit would do a measly 1 damage at its 200hp shield.
The crawlers where so cute though.
I've just started playing A16 (well, I played it for a bit with MARS only - that's the only thing that got me to update from A12) and now I'm discovering some of my favourite mods no longer exist. Now it seems I have to rely on minions instead of crawlers for all my cleaning and animals for hauling ... crawlers were better.
There are new mods for these purposes now. Although there may be a chance this mod will come back one day.
Damn, I actually missed out on that one ..
even worse, reading the description sounds like something I wanted to start myself ..
@Orion.
You wrote in January that someone was helping in reviving the mod .. was there any progress ?
If or if not, I would volunteer for code-cleaning duties ..
Quote from: Orion on August 06, 2017, 06:00:14 AM
There are new mods for these purposes now. Although there may be a chance this mod will come back one day.
Could you tell me which ones? (apart from Minions)
Quote from: SpaceDorf on August 06, 2017, 07:40:39 AM
You wrote in January that someone was helping in reviving the mod .. was there any progress ?
If or if not, I would volunteer for code-cleaning duties ..
There has been massive progress. So actually where it ended was on my part of doing the last bits updating to A17 and creating the release material (descriptions, image, etc.).
This is the latest state of the mod: https://github.com/OrionFive/MoreMechanoids
So feel free to knock yourself out with it. Try it, test it, report issues, update it to A17, etc. You can just create pull requests when you have anything working.
Quote from: tigg on August 06, 2017, 06:44:57 PM
Quote from: Orion on August 06, 2017, 06:00:14 AM
There are new mods for these purposes now. Although there may be a chance this mod will come back one day.
Could you tell me which ones? (apart from Minions)
Sorry, no... I never really cared for these. You'll have to look around yourself. Stuff with robots, most likely.
Thank you orion, maybe I will.
@tigg :
RimSlaves, from the same author as Minions.
Robots++ as extensions to haplos misc robots, which can do all kind of colonists jobs ..
and Haplos MAI .. a buildable pawn
@SpaceDorf - thanks, just discovered that Robots++ now has all kinds of robots that I can make, so it's better than the A12 version. I'll have to look in to RimSlaves.
So I can replay this mod? will do! I'll probably regret it, but it doesnt matter. More Mechanoids was incredible.
So i see that there is B18 update to this mod on steam but it's not available in the dropbox? Someone willing to make it available ?
You can get from Github, there:
https://github.com/OrionFive/MoreMechanoids
Use the green download button and you'll get a zip archive
Why is this in outdated then ?
Because I'm not keeping the forum page updated... Call me lazy, I guess...