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RimWorld => Releases => Mods => Outdated => Topic started by: NoImageAvailable on January 29, 2015, 12:27:41 PM

Title: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.5 (08.05.16) Final release
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 29, 2015, 12:27:41 PM
Development ceased, see this post (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9759.msg218529#msg218529)

Combat Realism:

This mod is an extensive overhaul of the game's combat to make it both more realistic and more tactical and engaging.

(http://i.imgur.com/mcZo0lr.png)(http://i.imgur.com/6aPkISr.png)(http://i.imgur.com/iLXDz5A.png)

Features:

All weapons have been rebalanced:The health system has been rebalanced:The aiming system has been redone:
New inventory and ammo system:
Armor system has been redone:
New suppression mechanic:
Important note: As many people have been asking about this, improvised turrets have been changed. Instead of being built they are made at the machining table and placed as minified furniture.

Current release available from GitHub here (https://github.com/NoImageAvailable/CombatRealism/releases/latest)

Installation:


Combat Realism Defence:

(http://i.imgur.com/J79V4Zz.png)

This is an optional addon introducing various defensive structures:


The embrasures and barbed wire can be built while the new turrets have to be bought from combat suppliers.

Installation:

Install the main mod.
Download and extract Combat Realism Defence.
Place the addon below the main mod in your load order (Recommended EdB Mod Order (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7454.0))



License:

(https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/4.0/88x31.png) (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/)
Note that as far as I'm concerned taking donations falls under "commercial use" and you do not have permission to use my work if you plan on collecting donations.

Compatibility:

Mods that modify vanilla weapons, walls, bodies or body parts (human and mechanoid, animals are fine), rock walls or rock chunks are inherently incompatible, meaning whichever mod is last in your load order will overwrite the changes of the other. Mods that add new guns, body parts, etc. are not incompatible but will likely be unbalanced in the context of this mod. Compatibility patches for the following mods exist:


Known issues:

Contributors:
Credits:


Tips:
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Epyk on January 29, 2015, 12:34:50 PM
I'm going to have to take a look at this.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Dibblah on January 29, 2015, 01:19:23 PM
Ohhhh yeah, just the right combo of items to grab my attention by the short'n curlies and make me give it a go! :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: numen0r on January 29, 2015, 01:29:56 PM
can this apply the new rules to other new weapon mods in the game?

if not please tell me this is possible in an update.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Ronin90 on January 29, 2015, 03:18:55 PM
Awesome, can't wait to try this out.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: SundayTuesday on January 29, 2015, 03:38:34 PM
Yaaaaaaaaaasssssssssss
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Boboid on January 29, 2015, 04:26:24 PM
Well, 100 days in so far and I can safely say that this mod helps keep your population low.. Not because of colonist deaths but rather because Browning Mgs don't leave many survivors :P
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: HBKRKO619 on January 29, 2015, 04:30:06 PM
Great mod :)

I have just 1 question. Can you rename your modified version of PA "CR Project armory 217" for exemple ? Because I actually can't have your version and the original one in my mod folder without replacing it.

I ask this because I want the 2 versions and being able to choose to play with the original version or your modified realistic version when I want to begin a game.

Or, can I rename your version like my proposition for exemple without creating a bug ?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 29, 2015, 04:40:05 PM
can this apply the new rules to other new weapon mods in the game?

if not please tell me this is possible in an update.

Unfortunately no, while other weapon mods won't have any compatibility issues, their weapon values won't be balanced for this mod. The only way to fix it would be to manually adjust the weapon stats to fit in.

Great mod :)

I have just 1 question. Can you rename your modified version of PA "CR Project armory 217" for exemple ? Because I actually can't have your version and the original one in my mod folder without replacing it.

I ask this because I want the 2 versions and being able to choose to play with the original version or your modified realistic version when I want to begin a game.

Or, can I rename your version like my proposition for exemple without creating a bug ?

You can rename the PA folders just fine, the only issue is that PA's integrated Weapon Kit Switcher will give you an error message telling you to put it into the PA directory if the folder is renamed. You can safely ignore it and it will work just fine but that's the reason I didn't rename it. Ingame it doesn't matter what the folders are named.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: HBKRKO619 on January 29, 2015, 04:44:38 PM
Great mod :)

I have just 1 question. Can you rename your modified version of PA "CR Project armory 217" for exemple ? Because I actually can't have your version and the original one in my mod folder without replacing it.

I ask this because I want the 2 versions and being able to choose to play with the original version or your modified realistic version when I want to begin a game.

Or, can I rename your version like my proposition for exemple without creating a bug ?

You can rename the PA folders just fine, the only issue is that PA's integrated Weapon Kit Switcher will give you an error message telling you to put it into the PA directory if the folder is renamed. You can safely ignore it and it will work just fine but that's the reason I didn't rename it. Ingame it doesn't matter what the folders are named.


Thanks you for this quick answer, I will do this :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: SilverDragon on January 29, 2015, 06:10:27 PM
I just realized while reading the mod description that this is what I need in my life currently. ;D
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Evul on January 29, 2015, 06:41:08 PM
Cool! :D
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: TheSilencedScream on January 29, 2015, 08:17:20 PM
I might have to try this.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Latta on January 29, 2015, 11:20:44 PM
This is the shotgun I expected, not vanilla's psuedo-shotgun!
May I use your shotgun source?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: SilverDragon on January 29, 2015, 11:29:54 PM
Hi hi! :D

Am I the only one getting this fun little yellow thing?
(http://i.imgur.com/7H9bRar.jpg)

I'm only assuming it comes from this mod, so just to be sure I wanted to check if anyone else is having this issue.
If noone else has it, I'll start to dig around to see if it's an incompatibility with a mod. :)
IT'S DEBUGGING TIME! ᕦ(✧ㅂ✧ˇ)ᕤ
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: numen0r on January 30, 2015, 12:55:22 AM
Hi hi! :D

Am I the only one getting this fun little yellow thing?
(http://i.imgur.com/7H9bRar.jpg)

I'm only assuming it comes from this mod, so just to be sure I wanted to check if anyone else is having this issue.
If noone else has it, I'll start to dig around to see if it's an incompatibility with a mod. :)
IT'S DEBUGGING TIME! ᕦ(✧ㅂ✧ˇ)ᕤ

I have the first and second yellow things (XML errors), and I haven't activated this mod yet. and one more yellow error from glitter tech mod, something about mg5 pistol thingdef thingy.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: TheSilencedScream on January 30, 2015, 01:10:33 AM
My first two thoughts (my "review," I guess?) on playing:

1.) HOLY **** THE RANGE ON GUNS
2.) That's... unfair. :(

The second one is what I wanted - actual lethality to guns. Sure, killboxes will make quick work of... EVERYTHING, but even a simple hunting mistake will likely be fatal; attacking mortar groups head on is actually challenging now; even having a person pass in front of a turret at the wrong moment is just as fatal as it should be.

People who don't like micro-managing or who favor melee weapons should probably keep away from this mod. If you don't keep a close eye on your colonists, they will die. If they're caught out in the open, they will likely die. If they have a melee weapon and you have the What the Deuce mod installed, they will poo their pants* and then die.

The first... I'm torn on. I do believe the guns needed more range, but I was just being shot at by a laser assault rifle of some sort (forgive me, I didn't check to see what weapon it was), and it seemed to be about 60cs away, at minimum (the accuracy was complete garbage at that range, of course, but it scared me for a bit!).


REVIEW/TL;DR VERSION: While I think the range should be tweak slightly, I think this is a VERY good mod, and should be a staple for anyone looking to add further difficulty and lethality to their games


*(Joke for emphasis: the point is, this mod makes using melee ALMOST impossible).
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: Rikiki on January 30, 2015, 02:46:39 AM
The first error"&gt" is a know bug of the Glasswork mod. See this thread (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3223.msg90384#msg90384) for a simple correction.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 30, 2015, 04:11:56 AM
This is the shotgun I expected, not vanilla's psuedo-shotgun!
May I use your shotgun source?

Sure. I've released the mod as Creative Commons so you are free to modify and/or include parts of this mod in other mods so long as appropriate credit is given.

Hi hi! :D

Am I the only one getting this fun little yellow thing?
(http://i.imgur.com/7H9bRar.jpg)

I'm only assuming it comes from this mod, so just to be sure I wanted to check if anyone else is having this issue.
If noone else has it, I'll start to dig around to see if it's an incompatibility with a mod. :)
IT'S DEBUGGING TIME! ᕦ(✧ㅂ✧ˇ)ᕤ

The BodyPartRecord warning was indeed caused by this mod, it seems when calculating the body part coverage I didn't consider that arms and legs also count as part of the torso. I uploaded a hotfix.

*(Joke for emphasis: the point is, this mod makes using melee ALMOST impossible).

Well, you know what they say about bringing a knife to a gun fight. ;)

The range calculations are currently a holdover from Realistic Weapons. While it is sound in theory it kinda runs into problems in Rimworld because there are no Z levels and foliage doesn't block shots. I think its good enough on Large Hills and Mountain type maps but on Small Hills and Flat you might run into problems. I've also been considering doing another pass on that in the future although I'd rather wait for some more feedback first.

Also, I'm glad to hear people are liking the mod. :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: skullywag on January 30, 2015, 04:17:35 AM
id wait for personal shields before messing with melee and balancing against it. Its gonna be a game changer for melee.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism
Post by: SilverDragon on January 30, 2015, 04:53:34 AM
The BodyPartRecord warning was indeed caused by this mod, it seems when calculating the body part coverage I didn't consider that arms and legs also count as part of the torso. I uploaded a hotfix.

Nice! I'm glad it was this mod so I posted on the right thread! ;D I'm currently running Rimworld with 102 (112 since I bunched up 11 mods into one on Quality of Life), so finding where the errors come from is getting abit tedious.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: akiceabear on January 30, 2015, 06:15:05 AM
Could you please attach the mods to the post, rather than just link to a third-party? I find MediaFire extremely frustrating to download from, at least from Asia - constant errors...
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 30, 2015, 07:35:17 AM
Could you please attach the mods to the post, rather than just link to a third-party? I find MediaFire extremely frustrating to download from, at least from Asia - constant errors...

Both archives are above the maximum filesize for attachments. The best I could offer you would be to upload it to another mirror like Dropbox.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: SilverDragon on January 30, 2015, 08:30:36 AM
Could you please attach the mods to the post, rather than just link to a third-party? I find MediaFire extremely frustrating to download from, at least from Asia - constant errors...

Both archives are above the maximum filesize for attachments. The best I could offer you would be to upload it to another mirror like Dropbox.

I prefer dropbox over everything nowadays. Any day. :D
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 30, 2015, 10:00:17 AM
Could you please attach the mods to the post, rather than just link to a third-party? I find MediaFire extremely frustrating to download from, at least from Asia - constant errors...

Both archives are above the maximum filesize for attachments. The best I could offer you would be to upload it to another mirror like Dropbox.

I prefer dropbox over everything nowadays. Any day. :D

They're all the same to me, but I have uploaded it to Dropbox now. Let me know if there are any more download issues.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Cibi on January 30, 2015, 10:10:43 AM
Can I use this without PA, personal preference.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 30, 2015, 10:12:47 AM
Can I use this without PA, personal preference.

Yes. The main module is a standalone overhaul of all the vanilla weapons and will function without the rest.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: popster99 on January 30, 2015, 11:58:49 AM
shouldn't there be a modified project armor in the main and defense download
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 30, 2015, 02:44:18 PM
shouldn't there be a modified project armor in the main and defense download

No, the modified PA version has connection to the Defence Pack.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: seanwoody716 on January 30, 2015, 03:34:00 PM
I'm not finding the PA files in either of the downloads posted... Maybe I'm missing something?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 30, 2015, 04:11:04 PM
You're not missing something, it seems I made a facepalm-worthy mistake and forgot to include it in the archive when I uploaded the hotfix. I put it up as a separate download now, sorry about that.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: seanwoody716 on January 30, 2015, 04:33:12 PM
No problems... If we didn't have face-palm moments in life what would be the point!!... Glad I could help remedy the situation  ;)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Ronin90 on January 30, 2015, 04:39:59 PM
I really like the mortar blast radius, among other things. No need to have dozens of them anymore to get results.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: akiceabear on January 30, 2015, 10:13:21 PM
Thanks for adding DropBox, much more reliable from my area of the world! :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Jeoshua on January 31, 2015, 01:18:53 AM
Excellent work. Guns as dangerous as they should be.

Now all you have to do is make melee weapons a bit more deadly, as well. I've literally seen a 10-skill melee weapon hunter take 30-40 swings on a boar to kill it, with a hunting knife. Even a stick should have incapacitated the thing after no more than 10 blows, fatal shortly after.

We'll see if the changes to organ damage do anything to help.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 31, 2015, 05:05:27 AM
Melee weapons will definitely get a rebalance some time in the future, lots of oddities right now (concrete club severing legs in one blow, wait what?). I didn't rebalance animal body parts though, so many parts and I don't really have any reference for them.

Also, speaking of mortars, I've been testing a new explosion effect (http://i.imgur.com/vAGZ24l.jpg). The next version will include smaller, stronger explosions with lots of shrapnel flying in a large radius, so mortar shells will be more deadly against soft targets in the open while walls and cover will provide more protection (no more raider mortars wiping out entire trade stockpiles in one hit). The same effect will be applied to all explosives with fragmentation effect, i.e. HEAT shells, frag grenades, etc.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: popster99 on January 31, 2015, 05:14:28 AM
the shrapnel part sounds really cool
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: SlimeCrusher on February 02, 2015, 10:24:16 PM
Also, speaking of mortars, I've been testing a new explosion effect (http://i.imgur.com/vAGZ24l.jpg). The next version will include smaller, stronger explosions with lots of shrapnel flying in a large radius, so mortar shells will be more deadly against soft targets in the open while walls and cover will provide more protection (no more raider mortars wiping out entire trade stockpiles in one hit). The same effect will be applied to all explosives with fragmentation effect, i.e. HEAT shells, frag grenades, etc.
Oh yes thank you, i was quite surprised when i got besieged, 4 mortar shells managed to rip most of my defenses (including my newly built M2 Browning). And obviously, randy helped alot when he gave me 3 besieges in a row, with this mod installed :P
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Novellum on February 03, 2015, 05:12:15 AM
Mortars are vicious, had two slam deep into the center of my base and completely shredded several colonists, my doctor was hit and lost her entire left side. Ended up having to fight it out amongst my ruins, only for my last colonists to go berserk and punch a muffalo for mutual assured destruction.

http://i.gyazo.com/fdf746c80b95879837445190abdb67f4.png
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Dragoon on February 03, 2015, 10:06:15 AM
This interferes with door control :(!!!! https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9054.0
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 03, 2015, 01:02:02 PM
This interferes with door control :(!!!! https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9054.0

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I've added a compatibility patch.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Ronin90 on February 03, 2015, 03:56:08 PM
When you deconstruct your mortars, you lose all the ammo loaded in them. Is there a way to fix this?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 03, 2015, 05:02:00 PM
When you deconstruct your mortars, you lose all the ammo loaded in them. Is there a way to fix this?

Maybe, but considering A9 is coming soonish and includes its own ammo system I don't think its worth the effort to be honest.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: numen0r on February 05, 2015, 02:34:28 PM
every time I load my game the internal ammo count of my mortars goes -1.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Dragoon on February 10, 2015, 05:26:21 AM
Would you be willing to make https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9536.0 (rimfire) balanced version of this mod it's also vanilla friendly so I figured they would work well together.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Alistaire on February 10, 2015, 01:39:50 PM
Would you be willing to make https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9536.0 (rimfire) balanced version of this mod it's also vanilla friendly so I figured they would work well together.

As a heads up for someone who started on this already, I've been working on one for a while now. I haven't played with Combat Realism yet, but I'm referencing the xml values for balance.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Dragoon on February 10, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
As a heads up for someone who started on this already, I've been working on one for a while now. I haven't played with Combat Realism yet, but I'm referencing the xml values for balance.

:D COOL! I love your mods @[email protected]
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Ire of the Mad God on February 10, 2015, 04:36:19 PM
It would be super awesome if you made a compatible version of Shinzy's Apparello. Between that, and Project armory, its basically a whole new game. Also, maybe finding some way to nerf the mechanoids? 2 centipedes with miniguns cut through my defenses in seconds. Their withering fire evaporated my stone walls and made mince meat of my colonist on the other side. When they fire at their max range there's just nothing you can do except cry. 
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 10, 2015, 04:41:15 PM
It would be super awesome if you made a compatible version of Shinzy's Apparello. Between that, and Project armory, its basically a whole new game. Also, maybe finding some way to nerf the mechanoids? 2 centipedes with miniguns cut through my defenses in seconds. Their withering fire evaporated my stone walls and made mince meat of my colonist on the other side. When they fire at their max range there's just nothing you can do except cry.

Miniguns shouldn't be able to do that much damage to walls, that sounds like you have a compatibility problem. Do you have any other mods that modify the base walls? Also, I play with Apparello myself and I didn't run into any compatibility issues, so it doesn't need a patch.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Ire of the Mad God on February 10, 2015, 04:46:22 PM
At the time, yes, but it was the better beacons mod, which as far as I know doesn't modify the walls. Also, while using apparello I saw a couple of graphical issues, mostly gun textures not appearing, and odd artifacting around certain characters.
 
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 10, 2015, 04:50:10 PM
At the time, yes, but it was the better beacons mod, which as far as I know doesn't modify the walls. Also, while using apparello I saw a couple of graphical issues, mostly gun textures not appearing, and odd artifacting around certain characters.

You have to restart your game every time you open the mod menu, otherwise you will get garbled textures. It is a known issue with the game and I'm guessing the cause of your problems.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Ire of the Mad God on February 10, 2015, 04:54:06 PM
At the time, yes, but it was the better beacons mod, which as far as I know doesn't modify the walls. Also, while using apparello I saw a couple of graphical issues, mostly gun textures not appearing, and odd artifacting around certain characters.

You have to restart your game every time you open the mod menu, otherwise you will get garbled textures. It is a known issue with the game and I'm guessing the cause of your problems.


alright, I'll give it a shot when I get home. Anyways, awesome work. The mod makes the combat so much more challenging, it makes for a way more challenging (fun) experience.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Dragoon on February 12, 2015, 03:25:40 AM
Why does the bolt pistol only have 10 range?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 12, 2015, 04:02:44 AM
Why does the bolt pistol only have 10 range?

Pistol ranges are currently standardized across the board because I was too lazy to research them properly. I'll take another look at them for the next update.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: Dragoon on February 16, 2015, 09:54:45 AM
I know you will be busy (project armor is huge!) but if you have the time after the next release ( I figure you'll be really busy when alpha 9 comes out) would you be willing to make a project haloverse realism mod https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7703.0  ( It has the stuff to make super soldiers :D) .
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: akiceabear on February 19, 2015, 05:05:19 AM
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 19, 2015, 05:23:05 AM
  • Hope this list is updated for A9, as I really enjoy it!
  • I've had a problem in some plays where it isn't possible for a pawn to mount a mortar/turrent. Is this bug known? Tried reloading the save a few times to no avail... I can share a save if helpful, although I wonder if it is a too-many-mods issue...

1. An update for vanilla is in the works and will likely be released either this weekend or early next week. It will include a number of new features and balance tweaks as well as Alpha 9 compatibility. The Project Armory version is coming as soon as the PA team updates it to A9.
2. I never had this issue, nor has anyone else reported it. I'd say wait and see if it persists into the A9 version and report it again if it does.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 8) Combat Realism v.1.0.1 (30.01.15) HOTFIX
Post by: akiceabear on February 19, 2015, 05:45:05 AM
1. An update for vanilla is in the works and will likely be released either this weekend or early next week. It will include a number of new features and balance tweaks as well as Alpha 9 compatibility. The Project Armory version is coming as soon as the PA team updates it to A9.
2. I never had this issue, nor has anyone else reported it. I'd say wait and see if it persists into the A9 version and report it again if it does.

Great on 1! I like playing at least one "full" playthrough on each vanilla beta, but look forward to the high-stakes combat realism after that :)

Re mount bug: it has only occurred since adding a few mods and starting to play on Mac (which I use when on the road). I've noticed in general that version is slightly wonkier, so probably goes beyond this mod specifically.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 23, 2015, 09:59:55 AM
Updated to Alpha 9, added fragmentation effect to various explosives (see changelog on first page for more details):

(http://i.imgur.com/D0ix6vo.png)

While I did some performance testing to guarantee smooth gameplay I suspect slower machines might struggle with large mortar barrages. Feedback regarding this would be appreciated. Although given their new effectiveness I'm guessing there won't be more than 3-4 mortars firing at any given time so impact on FPS should be minimal. Also, due to personal time constraints I was not able to playtest this version extensively so any feedback regarding gameplay would be appreciated as well.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: akiceabear on February 23, 2015, 10:11:09 AM
Look forward to trying it!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Ronin90 on February 23, 2015, 10:18:23 AM
Awesome, i was waiting for this.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Avtomatik on February 23, 2015, 10:22:18 AM
Are vanilla turrets also changed to reflect realism?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: akiceabear on February 23, 2015, 10:26:12 AM
Are vanilla turrets also changed to reflect realism?

They were for A8, so I assume the same is true in A9.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Avtomatik on February 23, 2015, 10:29:30 AM
I'd be nice to include turrets from 'more vanilla turrets' mod to diversify the options, if its not too much work
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: PilotBhav04 on February 23, 2015, 11:34:10 AM
combatrealism.dll keeps getting picked up by norton antivirus as a risk. Anyway to prevent this?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 23, 2015, 11:40:27 AM
combatrealism.dll keeps getting picked up by norton antivirus as a risk. Anyway to prevent this?

Can't really help you with that as I don't use Norton. You could try to add it as an exception, although I don't know if other Norton users have the same problem. Might want to run a virus check just in case.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: jabbamonkey on February 23, 2015, 09:13:01 PM
I just created a mod that re-textures the slag and stone chunks ... and noticed that it conflicts with your mod. It's not a major conflict, since it doesn't crash the game, but it is something worth noting (in case anyone asks).

Steel Rock Slag Mod (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10778.0)

I noticed that your mod edits the Various_Stones.xml ... as does my re-texture - hence the conflict. If your mod is loaded first, then everything is fine. If your mod is loaded after the Steel Rock Slag mod, then the new retextures don't show.

You might want to make a note of it in your instructions (in case people are trying to run both). Thanks!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: rakkaus on February 24, 2015, 08:26:23 AM
All in all this mod is a better experience then vanilla, but i recommend more researching and effort. A pistol having shorter range then a shotgun is absurd if we are talking about realism. A five-seven, for example, can penetrate kevlar 300 hundred meters away.

Really hope to see this grow to the point everything is a perfect reflection of reality, would be very interesting. But, if you decide to rebalance the whole project armory you can't be lazy (your own words) to the point of not researching how is a generic pistol compared to a generic shotgun.

In a side-note, taking the five-seven as example again, it has a range of 1500m but only 50m of effective range. That means it loses accuracy over distance, but it can still shot very far. You would have to keep in mind that giving a pistol a very far range/very low medium-long range accuracy would not create a good experience in Rimworld (AI would shot pistols from very far as if they were as efficient as a sniper.) Soo that kind of things has to be kept in mind... Not everything can be rough realism in a game like this or the final experience will be flawed; some adaptions are necessary.

Good luck.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Famous Shoes on February 24, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
This is a fantastic improvement over vanilla; makes it a different game, a better game. Thank you.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 24, 2015, 02:36:10 PM
All in all this mod is a better experience then vanilla, but i recommend more researching and effort. A pistol having shorter range then a shotgun is absurd if we are talking about realism. A five-seven, for example, can penetrate kevlar 300 hundred meters away.

Really hope to see this grow to the point everything is a perfect reflection of reality, would be very interesting. But, if you decide to rebalance the whole project armory you can't be lazy (your own words) to the point of not researching how is a generic pistol compared to a generic shotgun.

In a side-note, taking the five-seven as example again, it has a range of 1500m but only 50m of effective range. That means it loses accuracy over distance, but it can still shot very far. You would have to keep in mind that giving a pistol a very far range/very low medium-long range accuracy would not create a good experience in Rimworld (AI would shot pistols from very far as if they were as efficient as a sniper.) Soo that kind of things has to be kept in mind... Not everything can be rough realism in a game like this or the final experience will be flawed; some adaptions are necessary.

Good luck.

Ingame range is based on effective range, i.e. the range a skilled shooter can reliably hit a man-sized target, rather than the distance the bullet can fly. Otherwise the AI would just plink away at each other with pistols from half the map away as you said yourself. Not to mention that chance to hit can't fall below 2%, meaning you would actually have a realistic chance of hitting a guy at that distance with your pistol. Hence the range of pistols as non-adjustable sights and high bullet drop prevent you from accurately hitting targets at large distances.

On a related note I have uploaded the spreadsheets from which I created the mod to Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-tEY47sU81UHlzelRSzq6kFr-rLzmm8LpM0l_Yb1NtU/edit?usp=sharing). They contain all the ingame stats as well as the real world stats from which they were calculated. Should you find some inaccuracies with a weapon you can comment on the specific value there and I'll have a look at it. Just keep in mind that the market values for the PA weapons were for the previous version and will be adjusted for A9 once PA is updated.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Jonesh on February 25, 2015, 02:55:39 PM
A compatability patch for Expanded Prosthetics and Organ Engineering would be awesome, I've such a soft spot for outfitting my pawns with bionics... :P
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Kruniac on February 26, 2015, 02:30:12 AM
Something is a little funny here. I absolutely love the mod (I'm removing limbs with the M2 and getting off on it.), however it seems that the walls aren't really responding the way they should.

Ideally, a steel wall isn't going to be blown through by a weapon. Instead, mech miniguns and my M2 obliterate a wall section with 1 or 2 bullets.

I find it odd because the wall segment you can shoot through survived several bullets from a mechanoid, whereas the default steel wall sections to the left and right crumbled immediately.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 26, 2015, 03:58:36 AM
Something is a little funny here. I absolutely love the mod (I'm removing limbs with the M2 and getting off on it.), however it seems that the walls aren't really responding the way they should.

Ideally, a steel wall isn't going to be blown through by a weapon. Instead, mech miniguns and my M2 obliterate a wall section with 1 or 2 bullets.

I find it odd because the wall segment you can shoot through survived several bullets from a mechanoid, whereas the default steel wall sections to the left and right crumbled immediately.

Sounds like a conflicting mod is overriding the walls. Normally walls and rock formations should have the same resistance to bullets that the embrasures have.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: HattoriHanzo on February 26, 2015, 04:24:55 AM
Love your mod!

Used it in A8 without any problems, but now i have a strange issue:

The M2 Browning is buildable but when i`'s done, i cant't use it. And the despcription of the built item is some programming string.

I also use "more vanilla turrets", could that be an issue?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Kruniac on February 26, 2015, 12:55:55 PM
Something is a little funny here. I absolutely love the mod (I'm removing limbs with the M2 and getting off on it.), however it seems that the walls aren't really responding the way they should.

Ideally, a steel wall isn't going to be blown through by a weapon. Instead, mech miniguns and my M2 obliterate a wall section with 1 or 2 bullets.

I find it odd because the wall segment you can shoot through survived several bullets from a mechanoid, whereas the default steel wall sections to the left and right crumbled immediately.

Sounds like a conflicting mod is overriding the walls. Normally walls and rock formations should have the same resistance to bullets that the embrasures have.

Combat Realism
Combat Realism Defence
Core
EDBPrepareCarefully (Disabled)
Hobo Stove
Icons
MediXP
Organ Engineering
Slavers
Target Practice
VeinMiner

Any ideas? From what little I know about the XML structure, nothing looks like it's overwriting the buildings file with the definitions in it. Is there some kind of load order thing I'm missing?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 26, 2015, 03:00:45 PM
Love your mod!

Used it in A8 without any problems, but now i have a strange issue:

The M2 Browning is buildable but when i`'s done, i cant't use it. And the despcription of the built item is some programming string.

I also use "more vanilla turrets", could that be an issue?

Loaded up More Vanilla Turrets and I can't reproduce the bug. Can you post a screenshot + log?

Something is a little funny here. I absolutely love the mod (I'm removing limbs with the M2 and getting off on it.), however it seems that the walls aren't really responding the way they should.

Ideally, a steel wall isn't going to be blown through by a weapon. Instead, mech miniguns and my M2 obliterate a wall section with 1 or 2 bullets.

I find it odd because the wall segment you can shoot through survived several bullets from a mechanoid, whereas the default steel wall sections to the left and right crumbled immediately.

Sounds like a conflicting mod is overriding the walls. Normally walls and rock formations should have the same resistance to bullets that the embrasures have.

Combat Realism
Combat Realism Defence
Core
EDBPrepareCarefully (Disabled)
Hobo Stove
Icons
MediXP
Organ Engineering
Slavers
Target Practice
VeinMiner

Any ideas? From what little I know about the XML structure, nothing looks like it's overwriting the buildings file with the definitions in it. Is there some kind of load order thing I'm missing?

I looked through all these mods and didn't find any conflicts. Just for the record, you are loading CR after Core, right?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Kruniac on February 26, 2015, 05:29:48 PM
I just recently found out that there was a way to alter load order. I'm guessing what happened is that I loaded my mods willy nilly and something went wrong.

Now I'm loading RealismCore and RealismDefence absolutely last to make sure they take hold.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Facepunch on February 26, 2015, 08:00:25 PM
I've a suggestion: Remove the chance to hit this "Torso" entirely. I've complained about it in the past. I love most of rimworld's medical system. Except the Torso. If I got shot, and the wound scarred, my torso's integrity wouldn't be permanently and pretty badly compromised. I've have a mark on my skin. I might suffer a tension pneumo, or a hole in my bloody heart, in which case, I probably wouldn't survive, but my torso's structure would be fine.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Kruniac on February 26, 2015, 09:01:02 PM
I've a suggestion: Remove the chance to hit this "Torso" entirely. I've complained about it in the past. I love most of rimworld's medical system. Except the Torso. If I got shot, and the wound scarred, my torso's integrity wouldn't be permanently and pretty badly compromised. I've have a mark on my skin. I might suffer a tension pneumo, or a hole in my bloody heart, in which case, I probably wouldn't survive, but my torso's structure would be fine.

I disagree. Just from being sliced up in various locations on my body, I have nerve damage scattered around and tendon weakness in certain places. I'd imagine a gunshot to the torso would be even worse.

I'm also assuming that we aren't using the most modern surgery in this game. Just some guy with 5 skill hacking you up and stitching you shut. I dunno.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Facepunch on February 26, 2015, 11:23:54 PM
Tendons, I can see being an issue. Nerve damage wouldn't overall compromise the integrity of your torso. Also, being shot is less damaging than getting cut, depending on the caliber of round, distance, velocity, etc. Getting stabbed damages a wider area of your body than the bullet would. Again, depending on the caliber(Getting hit by a .50 would kill you dead. You would be more hole than man, but a 9mm would make a neat hole in the front, a bit of a mess in the back, but overall nothing TOO severe). Why getting shot kills you, is organ and/or artery damage. I'd be fine with an added body "Part" that is the torso's circulatory system, massive blood loss, high health (To represent it's size), but quite easy to hit. I'm not saying it wouldn't leave you with temporary damages (Quite extreme damages, too) to your torso's integrity, but once it heals it wont be much more than a mark, and maybe the inability to move as well. That is, if you live long enough for it to heal.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Pokk720 on February 27, 2015, 12:21:17 AM
I hope this question hasn't already been answered but where do I put the contents of the "Source" folder when installing the mod.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 27, 2015, 02:16:24 AM
The problem with removing torso hit chance is that it will still be damaged even if not directly hit. Because body parts are defined as a tree structure (i.e. you have the torso as top node, which has child nodes like arms, legs and internal organs) and whenever a bullet hits a child node it will damage the top node as well, e.g. a hit to the heart will automatically damage the torso as well. I also left a small chance to hit the torso itself simply because it also has the intestine and body fat which aren't represented in the game, so there is a 15% chance to hit those.

Beyond that you also have to consider blunt weapons. If I were to remove the torso somehow they would start hitting internal organs and I don't think destroying a kidney with the swing of a club makes much sense.

I hope this question hasn't already been answered but where do I put the contents of the "Source" folder when installing the mod.

No need to put it anywhere, it just contains the source code for the .dll, in case other modders want to make use of it.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Pokk720 on February 27, 2015, 07:10:38 AM
Oh okay. I've been playing with the mod for a while with the Source folder in the actual mods folder and it was correctly changing the attributes of guns and everything but I noticed a major difference in organ damage after I took it out. Anyway, thanks and your mod is genius.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Facepunch on February 27, 2015, 08:29:59 AM
I don't think destroying a kidney with the swing of a club makes much sense.

Actually, considering your colonist's lives may depend on winning a fight (So they're actually hitting hard, probably as hard as they can), and they are armed with a club which increases the amount of force they can apply to the body considerably, its perfectly reasonable that a kidney be damaged to the point it's useless by a swing of the club. I mean, you can snap and shatter bones with a club, a kidneys a nice little squishy sack of meat. It's going to take that force, and it's going to mess things up.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Alistaire on February 27, 2015, 10:41:07 AM
Heads up; while browsing through your mod's XML I found that the frag grenade explodes into Fragment_MortarSmall, Medium and Large. However, just before the ThingDef of the frag grenade you define Fragment_GrenadeFragSmall, Medium and Large. These are never used.

I assume you want grenades to explode into those.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: karlnp on March 01, 2015, 07:18:17 PM
I quite like this mod, but find it makes repelling raids too easy, since ranges have been dramatically increased. One colonist with a survival rifle and 8-12 Shooting can snipe 2/3rds of a raid party. I suppose this is realistic given the range of an average hunting rifle or gun emplacement, but for the map sizes we have in RimWorld, perhaps it would help to also alter raid ThinkTrees to seek cover while "planning" instead of just wandering around in the open.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: HattoriHanzo on March 02, 2015, 03:04:47 AM
Solved my problem with the non-functional browning, was a loading-issue and the mod-load-order-mod helped!

Thanks for the great mod! In combination with the zombie-apoc-mod it's just hilarouis! Mewing through a horde of zombies with several brwonings is just that great :D
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Bunisher on March 02, 2015, 05:25:45 AM
Hello!

I really like what this mod is trying to do as I have felt that some weapons in the game is just not working as I would like them to. I do have a question though. Firearms are now more deadly, great, that's what I'd like to see. But what is the chance that the people you're shooting at actually become incapped instead of just straight out killed? I do get that a .50-cal will just destroy a body, killing the pawn but what about smaller caliber weapons? Is it even possible to get more colonists with this mod installed or will everyone you shoot at just die if you hit? =P
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Makropony on March 02, 2015, 07:25:02 AM
So I don't seem to be able to haul any weapons. It always shows that there is "no empty space configured to store it", even though I have two large empty stockpiles that do have "weapons" enabled.
http://i.imgur.com/gF9QtHT.jpg these are the mods I use, I'm not sure if it's an issue with yours, but CR and Rimworld are the ones that deal with weapons a lot.

Nevermind, fixed itself.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 02, 2015, 08:28:53 AM
I quite like this mod, but find it makes repelling raids too easy, since ranges have been dramatically increased. One colonist with a survival rifle and 8-12 Shooting can snipe 2/3rds of a raid party. I suppose this is realistic given the range of an average hunting rifle or gun emplacement, but for the map sizes we have in RimWorld, perhaps it would help to also alter raid ThinkTrees to seek cover while "planning" instead of just wandering around in the open.

The AI has been on my list of things to take a look at for A9 but due personal time constraints/health issues I haven't been able to dedicate much time to this mod, so I don't actually know what can or can't be done with the AI. Although from personal observations it seems that if enough Zerglings spawn with rifles etc. the horde will engage at an appropriate range.

Hello!

I really like what this mod is trying to do as I have felt that some weapons in the game is just not working as I would like them to. I do have a question though. Firearms are now more deadly, great, that's what I'd like to see. But what is the chance that the people you're shooting at actually become incapped instead of just straight out killed? I do get that a .50-cal will just destroy a body, killing the pawn but what about smaller caliber weapons? Is it even possible to get more colonists with this mod installed or will everyone you shoot at just die if you hit? =P

Its entirely storyteller-based. If you don't like the amount of colonists you get from Cassandra you have to play on Randy.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Bunisher on March 02, 2015, 09:28:53 AM
Its entirely storyteller-based. If you don't like the amount of colonists you get from Cassandra you have to play on Randy.

I'm sorry but I don't think you understood my question. I'll try to rephrase it. What is the chance of the ones you're shooting at to become incapped instead of just outright dying, so you can capture them and try to recruit them? Is it as high as the normal game or will it be harder with this mod installed? Since, you know, you said that it is a higher chance to hit a vital organ.

Edit: If it wasnt obvious yet, I still havent tried the mod due to still wondering about this.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 02, 2015, 11:30:20 AM
Its entirely storyteller-based. If you don't like the amount of colonists you get from Cassandra you have to play on Randy.

I'm sorry but I don't think you understood my question. I'll try to rephrase it. What is the chance of the ones you're shooting at to become incapped instead of just outright dying, so you can capture them and try to recruit them? Is it as high as the normal game or will it be harder with this mod installed? Since, you know, you said that it is a higher chance to hit a vital organ.

Edit: If it wasnt obvious yet, I still havent tried the mod due to still wondering about this.

Whenever a pawn gets high enough pain/bloodloss the storyteller AI checks if he should pass out or die. If you're wondering about the chances of getting to that level of pain, I playtested it on Randy Challenge and had more than enough prisoners. Keep in mind that while unprotected organs will get oneshot by most everything armored opponents are protected from one-hit-kills and limbs are generally tougher, meaning you can land more hits with more damage for more pain. While low damage weapons like assault rifles are significantly more powerful than vanilla they still don't oneshot an enemy through power armor the way an M-24 would (and the M-24 has, infact, significantly decreased lethality compared to vanilla). More powerful weapons like an M2 still leave plenty of prisoners simply because a shot to the leg means instant incap. How it compares to vanilla combat I can't tell you, because I haven't played vanilla since Alpha 7.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Bunisher on March 02, 2015, 12:12:33 PM
Its entirely storyteller-based. If you don't like the amount of colonists you get from Cassandra you have to play on Randy.

I'm sorry but I don't think you understood my question. I'll try to rephrase it. What is the chance of the ones you're shooting at to become incapped instead of just outright dying, so you can capture them and try to recruit them? Is it as high as the normal game or will it be harder with this mod installed? Since, you know, you said that it is a higher chance to hit a vital organ.

Edit: If it wasnt obvious yet, I still havent tried the mod due to still wondering about this.

Whenever a pawn gets high enough pain/bloodloss the storyteller AI checks if he should pass out or die. If you're wondering about the chances of getting to that level of pain, I playtested it on Randy Challenge and had more than enough prisoners. Keep in mind that while unprotected organs will get oneshot by most everything armored opponents are protected from one-hit-kills and limbs are generally tougher, meaning you can land more hits with more damage for more pain. While low damage weapons like assault rifles are significantly more powerful than vanilla they still don't oneshot an enemy through power armor the way an M-24 would (and the M-24 has, infact, significantly decreased lethality compared to vanilla). More powerful weapons like an M2 still leave plenty of prisoners simply because a shot to the leg means instant incap. How it compares to vanilla combat I can't tell you, because I haven't played vanilla since Alpha 7.

Alright, thank you! I had no idea how it calculated if a pawn should be incapped or not, thanks for clearing that up for me.

I'll give the mod a shot and see how I like it.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Halinder on March 03, 2015, 09:29:48 PM
Please collaborate with the author of Cybernetic Storm. If you can grant the fragmentation effect to the auto mortar I will forever love your soul.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: ghostnineone on March 05, 2015, 09:08:15 PM
Just to double check, this doesn't work at all with mods like cybernetic storm and surgery mods? (I can't add new limbs to colonists). How should this be loaded to avoid the colorful screen of death?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: Sir_W_Scott on March 07, 2015, 02:01:28 AM
Quick question... Have you thought about making some sort of "line of sight" option for the mod?
I love the mod... but it kind of makes combat on the... "not as fun/hard" side just because the enemy dies and never has a chance to get closer :x lol

Anyways keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1 (23.02.15) A pilum to a mortar fight
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 07, 2015, 03:22:35 PM
Just to double check, this doesn't work at all with mods like cybernetic storm and surgery mods? (I can't add new limbs to colonists). How should this be loaded to avoid the colorful screen of death?

Haven't tested it, but it should theoretically work if you load whatever surgery mod you have after this (though you will lose out on all the health/coverage changes made to body parts). Since this mod only changes some numbers around it should not cause any death screens.

Quick question... Have you thought about making some sort of "line of sight" option for the mod?
I love the mod... but it kind of makes combat on the... "not as fun/hard" side just because the enemy dies and never has a chance to get closer :x lol

Anyways keep up the good work!

Not sure what you mean. Walls and rocks already break line of sight and prevent you from firing. In testing I found an enemy's ability to close in depends mostly on terrain. With lots of hills and trees to block fire they'll get in much closer, whereas flat desert maps they get decimated the moment they enter the map. I've been meaning to look into smarter AI so the horde will split and engage at more appropriate ranges but I haven't had the time unfortunately.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 08, 2015, 09:18:51 AM
Released update 1.1.1, containing various misc bug fixes. See changelog for more details.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: RoflWaffleGod on March 08, 2015, 12:32:50 PM
does updating to 1.11 from 1.1 break saves?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 08, 2015, 12:38:05 PM
does updating to 1.11 from 1.1 break saves?

No
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: arammco on March 09, 2015, 04:12:03 PM
I can't see the range of the vanilla turret with this mod enabled
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Iwillbenicetou on March 09, 2015, 08:40:01 PM
Probably go off the screen :P . But that's strange...
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Darkhymn on March 10, 2015, 01:42:11 AM
I will be trying this. I definitely see a lot of promise in this, so long as it doesn't unbalance my play too much. I'll be back with thoughts and things!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 10, 2015, 03:15:08 AM
I can't see the range of the vanilla turret with this mod enabled

Engine limitation, circles beyond a certain radius don't get drawn by the game. You can see it in vanilla on the bills tab, if you set the ingredient search radius beyond 60 or so it vanishes.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: kaiserslash on March 10, 2015, 04:33:30 AM
Just wanting to say I love combat Realism, I also enjoy Cybernetic Storms, but they both modify body parts.  I'm working on trying to make them compatible in that Combat Realism will be added after Cybernetic Storms.  If I can get it to work properly, would you want the compatibility version?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Silkoraz on March 11, 2015, 03:46:02 AM
Looks good and works great, except for the range on weapons. You barely see your enemy before they are dead and the very tactical positioning i like in this game gets ruined. Is there a way to mod ranges on weapons or change the settings? I ran it on Randy random 160% and survived for 3 years with only 1 browning. The AI isnt made to think at those great distances and even with sniper rifles they just move into close combat before even considering firing and before that they were dead. Also keep the max range at 50 and try to adapt to that. Makes other weapon mods viable and not just vanilla weapons OP. Would be awesome!

Best Regards
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Dragoon on March 11, 2015, 06:26:33 AM
-snip-
Change it yourself. Go Mods\CombatRealism\Defs\ThingDefs , edit find <range>(some number)</range> and manually change the guns do the range you want.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 11, 2015, 06:48:53 AM
Just wanting to say I love combat Realism, I also enjoy Cybernetic Storms, but they both modify body parts.  I'm working on trying to make them compatible in that Combat Realism will be added after Cybernetic Storms.  If I can get it to work properly, would you want the compatibility version?

Sure, go ahead. I have no idea what Cybernetic Storm does but this mod mostly just switches some numbers around so I don't think there will be major incompatibilities.

Looks good and works great, except for the range on weapons. You barely see your enemy before they are dead and the very tactical positioning i like in this game gets ruined. Is there a way to mod ranges on weapons or change the settings? I ran it on Randy random 160% and survived for 3 years with only 1 browning. The AI isnt made to think at those great distances and even with sniper rifles they just move into close combat before even considering firing and before that they were dead. Also keep the max range at 50 and try to adapt to that. Makes other weapon mods viable and not just vanilla weapons OP. Would be awesome!

Best Regards

I'm guessing you play either desert or tundra with flat terrain? Because I playtested on a boreal forest with large hills and one M2 sure as hell isn't stopping entire raids by itself. The AI is a known issue and will get a pass-over at some point in the future. I have considered reducing certain weapons' ranges but I certainly will not reduce them to vanilla levels. This mod was primarily intended to create a certain type of gameplay that might not be everyone's cup of tea (think Call of Duty vs ArmA) and if you'd rather have the arcadey gameplay of vanilla this mod is not for you.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Famous Shoes on March 11, 2015, 09:25:29 AM
Just wanted to say I quite like the ranges as they are in Combat Realism. Stock RimWorld AI is certainly an issue though, even the simple raid priorities seems to have been made for a world without firearms (stock ranges are roughly throwing ranges, so I think of stock RW as modelling the throwing of bullets by hand.) Priorities seem to be:

Mechs: first attack turrets of any kind, then buildings, and lastly a colonist or two.
Humanoids: first attack buildings, then turrets, and lastly colonists.

This works OKish without real ranged weapons and supports much larger raids, giving the UX of "mowing down hordes". But, it works poorly with Combat Realism ranges. If it were possible to simply change raid pawns' priorities so 80-90% of raiders went for colonists first, then pillaging and burning second, that might help a fair bit. Just a guess and I'm not sure if that's even among the moddable things.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: nuschler22 on March 11, 2015, 10:08:24 AM
I really enjoy the realism in this, but I'm having a problem actually capturing colonists to grow my colony. 

Even trying to capture people with melee, they are usually dead by the time I get them back to my prison or shortly thereafter. 

With the cost of slaves so much these days (lol), does anyone have any tips using this mod?  Thanks!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Famous Shoes on March 11, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
I really enjoy the realism in this, but I'm having a problem actually capturing colonists to grow my colony.  [...]

I recommend Skullywag's stun gun and grenades and tazer in Non-Lethals: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6034.0 (scroll down a bit in the OP for Non-Lethals.)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Mathenaut on March 12, 2015, 12:50:19 AM
Oddly enough, the AI issues actually make this a little.. too easy.

Though I suppose it also just means that using proper strategies is super-effective now that mobs of raiders can't just soak up bullets for breakfast on their jolly way through into your base.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on March 15, 2015, 05:10:58 AM
i was told that there was a compatible version for rimfire but alas i am blind (not literaly) and cant find it
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 15, 2015, 06:57:48 AM
i was told that there was a compatible version for rimfire but alas i am blind (not literaly) and cant find it

Check the Rimfire page, the download for the CR version is right below the regular one.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: nuschler22 on March 15, 2015, 11:03:35 AM
I really enjoy the realism in this, but I'm having a problem actually capturing colonists to grow my colony.  [...]

I recommend Skullywag's stun gun and grenades and tazer in Non-Lethals: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6034.0 (scroll down a bit in the OP for Non-Lethals.)

Thanks.  Is there a way to capture them when they are stunned?  I find even when they are stunned and I melee them, they typically die on their way to or shortly after getting inside the prison.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: harpo99999 on March 15, 2015, 04:11:25 PM
when they are stunned, just CAPTURE them do NOT melee them, but if you are near the colony max for your storyteller then they are likely to die anyway
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Mathenaut on March 15, 2015, 11:39:56 PM
I'm going to leave my .02 on this mod overall, now that I've run a couple of colonies with it.

I've mentioned (and some others have mentioned) that this mod makes the game particularly easy (though mechanoids are damn tough without cheesing your way into heavy weapons early on, or using other mods).

This has alot to do with what the mod does, vs what is advertised. You're boasting realism, when in reality you are just making weapons excessively deadly. It's a world of difference.

It's 'easy' because people pretty much drop dead when they take a round or two. Because TV is more realistic than reality, this makes sense to people.

If you're aiming for actual realism, however, then people wearing armor should be getting incapped far more often than getting killed.

Another problem with ranges involves sight. With proper spotters and all things accounted for, yes, sniper rifles have amazing range and accuracy. Realistically? Most of these weapons are firing further than people would reasonably see with any real clarity.

So mostly, this took a problem that the game has (people eating bullets for breakfast) and pushed it to the opposite extreme (people dying from one or two shots).

Some people enjoy this, but I think there's more potential to be seen in this mod.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 16, 2015, 02:24:33 AM
If you're aiming for actual realism, however, then people wearing armor should be getting incapped far more often than getting killed.

Guns were specifically balanced so that modern day weaponry won't be able to destroy people's organs in one hit through the 50% reduction armor provides. It is not exactly realistic that a thrown stone could do any damage through power armor, but its the best you can do with the lackluster armor system (a proper threshold based system is definitely on my things to look into) and it does work for incapacitation. I've had pawns get caught off-guard and get barraged by entire raiding parties and survive without any permanent injury thanks to power armor. Keep in mind that incap chances for raiders are storyteller based, not damage based.

As for lethality, testing showed that unprotected pawns would go down after about 4-6 assault rifle rounds unless a vital organ is hit. And while it is certainly possible to survive a gunshot to the heart, the problem is again in Rimworld's lackluster pain system which lets people run around with a heart at 1 health like it ain't no thing when any real person would be incapacitated. I think having those incapacitating shots be lethal is a much better compromise than an army of iron men shrugging off even the most grievous injuries.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Mathenaut on March 16, 2015, 11:35:55 PM
Guns were specifically balanced so that modern day weaponry won't be able to destroy people's organs in one hit through the 50% reduction armor provides.

That's just the thing, though. At least as I'm seeing it, the majority of the time someone with armor gets dropped with a bullet, it's usually because an internal organ got popped with not much of any other damage done (which, consequentially, means no incapping).

4-6 rounds is 2-3 more rounds than my experience shows. In my last couple of runs, an assault rifle dropped most unprotected raiders in a single burst. Hunting Rifles and Sniper Rifles usually only took one shot.

Oh, and turrets outright murdered everything that wasn't mechanoid.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Montanio on March 17, 2015, 09:53:50 AM
I think the only reason this mod feels "OP" sometimes is because the raiding AI is stupid. Otherwise, if the AI were anywhere set up for remote engagements and to use cover, with superior numbers even with the best weapons, colonists and turrents will be soon overwhelmed. I find if you play on extreme challenge, the sheer size of raiding parties trumps even superior weaponry + armor (I've modded some weapons from other mod packs to match roughly the same stats as their counterparts in CR) unless you heavily choke routes and setup a strong barricade with multiple layers. I've been using this mod since A6 and even with OP expanded turrent packs, shields, other "goodies" and lots of mountain bases, I still lose colonists if I'm not careful.

I usually play on Cassandra extreme and ludicrous map sizes with moderate amount of mountains, so YMMV on settings and mods used.

I think the only way we can get better results is through more careful balancing of HP of each organ/parts, a custom storyteller (if incap chances can be modified that way to some extent), and ultimately, through an expanded plus improved health/AI system in the base game itself.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: jabbamonkey on March 24, 2015, 03:40:10 PM
I'm using v1.1.1 and I noticed that some of the textures aren't working correctly ....

(http://www.amazingdg.com/clients/rimworld/_bug_missingweapontext.jpg)
... note the Rheinmetall gun in the image above. I search my mods directory for the gun, and a single file in the CombatRealismDefence came up.

Any idea what's causing this, and how to fix it?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 24, 2015, 03:54:21 PM
I'm using v1.1.1 and I noticed that some of the textures aren't working correctly ....

(http://www.amazingdg.com/clients/rimworld/_bug_missingweapontext.jpg)
... note the Rheinmetall gun in the image above. I search my mods directory for the gun, and a single file in the CombatRealismDefence came up.

Any idea what's causing this, and how to fix it?

Its the cannon turret's weapon and it shouldn't show up on traders. That bug should have been fixed with the last update. Are you sure you're using the most recent version of the Defence Pack (i.e. both the core module and the pack show version 1.1.1)?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: jabbamonkey on March 24, 2015, 07:04:49 PM
I noticed the issue ... saved the game ... deleted the old version of the mod, downloaded the most recent version of the mod, restarted the game ... and then loaded my save. And the issue still was there.

Was the issue there because of the old save? And will disappear with any new trader/visitor?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 24, 2015, 07:33:35 PM
I noticed the issue ... saved the game ... deleted the old version of the mod, downloaded the most recent version of the mod, restarted the game ... and then loaded my save. And the issue still was there.

Was the issue there because of the old save? And will disappear with any new trader/visitor?

I assume an already generated trader would retain it even after the update, but any newly generated trader should not carry that weapon. Also there is a precision turret gun listed, is that from another mod?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on March 25, 2015, 03:32:56 AM
I noticed the issue ... saved the game ... deleted the old version of the mod, downloaded the most recent version of the mod, restarted the game ... and then loaded my save. And the issue still was there.

Was the issue there because of the old save? And will disappear with any new trader/visitor?

I assume an already generated trader would retain it even after the update, but any newly generated trader should not carry that weapon. Also there is a precision turret gun listed, is that from another mod?
Yeah its from i thing the more vanilla turrets mod thats a bug i noticed to and its a super op on that has like almost a 100%hit chance
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: LustrousWolf on April 02, 2015, 02:37:32 PM
Will these mods work with this mod? http://gyazo.com/0627a1651a09679162977afb9a35be3e

PS: how do i install it? it comes with CR and sometihng called source? do i put both in mods folder or what?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: bluestrike15 on April 06, 2015, 10:57:47 PM
I was wondering if you could try and get this mod and the superior crafting mod working together. It has some turrets that need to be changed for balance sake.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 07, 2015, 03:11:51 AM
Will these mods work with this mod? http://gyazo.com/0627a1651a09679162977afb9a35be3e

PS: how do i install it? it comes with CR and sometihng called source? do i put both in mods folder or what?

Can't follow that link at the moment, can you link to the mod's forum thread?

The Source folder contains the source code for the mod, in case another modder wants to have a look. You don't need it for the mod to run.

I was wondering if you could try and get this mod and the superior crafting mod working together. It has some turrets that need to be changed for balance sake.

Technically yes, but I've been kinda busy with stuff lately, so I don't have much time to dedicate to Rimworld or this mod. I might have a look if I get around to it this week.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: dustysniper on April 09, 2015, 11:25:56 PM
I have some questions about the choices you made in your mod. Just curiousity. I love this mod.

Quote
All weapons do damage in accordance with their calibers

Not all weapons inflict same damage based on calibers their is a lot of mitigating factors such as bullet design, location of hit and the amount of grains in a round. Higher caliber weapons usually create a through and through which just cuts straight through and is easier for field surgeons to patch up , while lower caliber tend to bounce off bones and tear up internal organs.

Quote
Burst sizes are based on magazine size. Guns designed for sustained automatic fire (SMGs & sub-carbines, machine guns, automatic shotguns) have bursts equivalent to 1/5 their magazine size.

These weapons don't really have a sustained rate not if you actually want to hit targets. All experienced machine gunners don't hold the trigger down. By sustained rate I am assuming you mean the rate of fire the weapon can sustain with no damage to barrel or internals with min. barrel swaps?

Quote
All weapons have ranges equivalent to 1/5 their real life effective range

What are you using as their real life effective range?

Quote
Shotguns fire 8 low damage pellets instead of a single projectile with damage depending on how many hit.

Every shotgun Ive personally seen in combat uses slugs, they take out doors and personal. Just curious why you selected using buck over slugs?

Quote
Many explosives now use a new fragmentation effect, scattering lethal shell fragments over large distances

The deadliest part of an HE explosion is the concussion blast not the fragmentation or explosion itself. People well literally die a far way away from explosives from the supersonic blast wave. But fragments from grenades do scatter far. I once pulled a fragment out of a tree over 100 m from where I threw a frag.

Quote
Generally, limbs are tougher while organs are squishier and bleed much more. A rifle shot to an unprotected heart is lethal, but it does not send an arm flying. Only repeated hits or a high power round (.50cal, Lasgun, etc.) can destroy limbs.

Limbs have pretty serious arteries in them and are deadly especially the groin and hamstring area. If you sever an artery there your chances are pretty low, but a gut shot you have several hours and can get to medical treatment in time. A .50cal doesnt even have to make contact with a limb to tear it off. Why multiple rounds to destroy limbs?

Also shouldnt high caliber weapons destroy walls and mechs? A .50cal shreds through concrete and up armored vehicles. I don't know what you mean by the internal organs thing rather than the torso? Can you clarify? Soldiers are taught to protect internal organs it was much more common to see gunshot wounds in arms and legs rather than the torso. Thats why your taught to face plates down range all your protection is there the issue comes from if your shooting back your arms and weapon are blocking your torso and your typically nuts to dirt. The biggest thing I would love to see in this game is a prone and crouching stance that increases accuracy makes you harder to hit and reduces movement speed dramatically. Standing would also decrease accuracy pretty dramatically good look hitting a target at 100+ meters standing while its moving. Squad formations would be awesome and bounding techniques but I'm not an experienced programmer (i just dabble) and that would probably be incredibly hard.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 10, 2015, 08:47:25 AM
I have some questions about the choices you made in your mod. Just curiousity. I love this mod.

Quote
All weapons do damage in accordance with their calibers

Not all weapons inflict same damage based on calibers their is a lot of mitigating factors such as bullet design, location of hit and the amount of grains in a round. Higher caliber weapons usually create a through and through which just cuts straight through and is easier for field surgeons to patch up , while lower caliber tend to bounce off bones and tear up internal organs.

Maybe "caliber" is not the most accurate term. What I meant is that damage is based on the type of bullet fired and in relation to its real world characteristics (muzzle energy, ballistics, etc.). For example, all weapons using 5.56mm do the same amount of damage and the 5.56 has been balanced with regard to other bullet types, rather than weapon types. Vanilla Rimworld and Project Armory an M-24 would do several times more damage than a FN FAL or M60 "cause its sniper". Here, a weapon firing 7.62x51mm will do the same amount of damage no matter if its an MG, assault or sniper rifle.

Quote
Quote
Burst sizes are based on magazine size. Guns designed for sustained automatic fire (SMGs & sub-carbines, machine guns, automatic shotguns) have bursts equivalent to 1/5 their magazine size.

These weapons don't really have a sustained rate not if you actually want to hit targets. All experienced machine gunners don't hold the trigger down. By sustained rate I am assuming you mean the rate of fire the weapon can sustain with no damage to barrel or internals with min. barrel swaps?

By "sustained automatic fire" I don't mean holding down the trigger Hollywood style until your bottomless magazine runs dry. In the case of SMGs and shotguns my reasoning was that with rifles, you usually shoot at long distances, so you use semi-auto or 2-3 round bursts, whereas with SMGs you have a low-recoil weapon at room distance, thus you can use larger bursts and still land your rounds on target.

MG bursts can differ greatly depending on whether you want to engage a single target, suppress an area, etc. Since Rimworld weapon burst size and accuracy are fixed I decided I'd balance MGs for area suppression because otherwise they would simply turn into assault rifles with the range and power of sniper rifles, making those weapon types obsolete.

Quote
Quote
All weapons have ranges equivalent to 1/5 their real life effective range

What are you using as their real life effective range?

See this table (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-tEY47sU81UHlzelRSzq6kFr-rLzmm8LpM0l_Yb1NtU/edit#gid=1126350953). I'm going by the standard definition of the distance a shooter can hit a target 50% of the time (for MGs its the effective range against area targets). Most of the values are based off of Internet research because I can't really test 160+ guns myself.

Quote
Quote
Shotguns fire 8 low damage pellets instead of a single projectile with damage depending on how many hit.

Every shotgun Ive personally seen in combat uses slugs, they take out doors and personal. Just curious why you selected using buck over slugs?

I was under the impression shotguns use 00 buckshot for a combat load. Though I'm not too knowledgeable on the topic of shotguns.

Quote
Quote
Many explosives now use a new fragmentation effect, scattering lethal shell fragments over large distances

The deadliest part of an HE explosion is the concussion blast not the fragmentation or explosion itself. People well literally die a far way away from explosives from the supersonic blast wave. But fragments from grenades do scatter far. I once pulled a fragment out of a tree over 100 m from where I threw a frag.

Not sure what your question is. The fragmentation system I implemented because as you said, fragments can scatter much further than the actual explosion. So I created a system that could model this effect more accurately than the vanilla explosions.

Quote
Quote
Generally, limbs are tougher while organs are squishier and bleed much more. A rifle shot to an unprotected heart is lethal, but it does not send an arm flying. Only repeated hits or a high power round (.50cal, Lasgun, etc.) can destroy limbs.

Limbs have pretty serious arteries in them and are deadly especially the groin and hamstring area. If you sever an artery there your chances are pretty low, but a gut shot you have several hours and can get to medical treatment in time. A .50cal doesnt even have to make contact with a limb to tear it off. Why multiple rounds to destroy limbs?

Rimworld doesn't model arteries by default. It could be implemented but would cause this mod to be incompatible with any other that adds body parts. As to limbs, the multiple hit thing is for smaller calibers, 5.56, 7.62 etc. A .50cal can still destroy them in one hit. Realistically it is possible for a smaller round to do enough damage to a limb to require amputation, but Rimworld doesn't currently support a "mangled" condition for body parts, only impaired and completely severed/destroyed.

Quote
Also shouldnt high caliber weapons destroy walls and mechs? A .50cal shreds through concrete and up armored vehicles. I don't know what you mean by the internal organs thing rather than the torso? Can you clarify? Soldiers are taught to protect internal organs it was much more common to see gunshot wounds in arms and legs rather than the torso. Thats why your taught to face plates down range all your protection is there the issue comes from if your shooting back your arms and weapon are blocking your torso and your typically nuts to dirt. The biggest thing I would love to see in this game is a prone and crouching stance that increases accuracy makes you harder to hit and reduces movement speed dramatically. Standing would also decrease accuracy pretty dramatically good look hitting a target at 100+ meters standing while its moving. Squad formations would be awesome and bounding techniques but I'm not an experienced programmer (i just dabble) and that would probably be incredibly hard.

Regarding walls, high-powered rounds will punch a hole through a wall but they won't knock it down. You'd need to fire hundreds of (non-explosive) rounds into a section of wall to do any appreciable damage to it. Though I might have a look at implementing wall penetration when I get some more free time.

Pawns in Rimworld have a body part called "torso" that acts just like limbs, organs, etc. and can be hit and destroyed. Whenever the game determines that the torso was hit it makes a random roll to see if a subpart (heart, kidneys, ...) was hit. If a subpart is hit damage is done to it and the torso, otherwise only the torso takes damage. In vanilla the chance to hit the heart for example was a mere 1.5% so the majority of torso hits would actually miss all the organs and only hit the "torso" body part. I changed it so now the majority of torso hits will also damage an organ.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: dustysniper on April 10, 2015, 01:19:31 PM
Quote
I was under the impression shotguns use 00 buckshot for a combat load. Though I'm not too knowledgeable on the topic of shotguns.

From my personal experience when we were fighting in urban environments we used slugs, it can take out a door handle and a person without hitting civilians with the spread. But every unit in the military has a different SOP.

Quote
Not sure what your question is. The fragmentation system I implemented because as you said, fragments can scatter much further than the actual explosion. So I created a system that could model this effect more accurately than the vanilla explosions.


Wasnt really a questions just a statement I guess. Most people don't understand what HE explosives are or the fact that the explosions and fragments are the least dangerous parts. Most explosives blow up in a V shape from impact. But I like your system. Thanks for the fast response this is a awesome mod and I am a fanboy. I do understand why a M-24 does more damage. I suppose the logic is if he is taking the time to aim through a scope the shooter is more likely to hit vital organs?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: LustrousWolf on April 10, 2015, 02:05:52 PM
@NoImageAvailable I have tested CR with all those mods and it seems to work just fine so it is ok :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NihilRex on April 10, 2015, 02:29:45 PM
Is it at all possible to make Mortars more realistically accurate?

At no point should Circular Error Probability exceed burst radius, and with the sheer amount of aiming time spent, the aiming error should be rather small as well.

Max accuracy should be at 50% of maximum range, with worst accuracy trending towards the minimum range limit.  The accuracy degradation from midrange to max range should occur at about half the rate as the degredation that occurs between midrange and minimum range.

As a former 0341 Infantry Mortarman, the mortars in this game make me very sad.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 10, 2015, 03:50:12 PM
Is it at all possible to make Mortars more realistically accurate?

At no point should Circular Error Probability exceed burst radius, and with the sheer amount of aiming time spent, the aiming error should be rather small as well.

Max accuracy should be at 50% of maximum range, with worst accuracy trending towards the minimum range limit.  The accuracy degradation from midrange to max range should occur at about half the rate as the degredation that occurs between midrange and minimum range.

As a former 0341 Infantry Mortarman, the mortars in this game make me very sad.

Changing the way aiming works is pretty trivial, it mostly comes down to creating a mathematical algorithm to calculate the accuracy at any given range (and not kill your CPU in the process). Current calculations are based on a CEP of 50m and a scale of 1 game cell = 5m. Using the game's ForcedMissRadius (works by generating a random angle and a number between 0 and ForcedMissRadius and applying the resulting vector to the original target you get the cell the mortar will actually shoot at) I set it to 20 so half the rounds should land within 10 cells.

So going with your model and assuming the Rimworld mortar is 120mm with a max range of 6-7km (?) that would put maximum range at 1400 and maximum accuracy at 700 game cells. Now I never operated a mortar so I don't really know what kind of accuracy you can expect at that range and at minimum range (40 cells) but provided some accurate data on the start and end points it should be simple to make the accuracy scale linearly with target distance. Also, what exactly do you mean by burst radius?

On that note, depending on how accurate the game's ForcedMissRadius models CEP that can be adjusted too. I'd love to have some input from an actual expert on military matters when it comes to implementing these things ingame, rather than having to rely on stuff I read on the Internet.

Edit: I've been considering changing the scale of cells to meter from 1 cell = 5m down to 1 cell = 7.5m at least for the long range weapons (=everything except SMGs, pistols and shotguns) so range would be bit more balanced in relation to the game's map size (maximum is 400x400 cells). Anyone have thoughts on that?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: dustysniper on April 10, 2015, 05:56:39 PM
Mortars are alot more accurate. But what he is failing to say is they also have a fdc to calculate deflection and elevation and save firing point data and a FO to walk your rounds in and a 3 to 4 man team preppin rounds and shifting. if you know a Mortar lands in a spot on a certain deflecton and elevation you can save it for later use.  The 120mm mortar has a 7200m firing range (depending on round type and charge) with a 70m kill radius or blast radius or burst radius. If that's what is being used in the game. My biggest pet peeve is that mortar rounds are termed artillety shells in game they are vastly different. Artillery is designed for force on force front line wars and are direct fire. Mortars are smooth bored 360 indirect fire weapons, round designs are different. a veteran mortar team can have rounds in the air in 45 seconds on a 360 swivel while atillery can take upward of 5 plus minutes to swivel Because of weight. Fm 3-22.90 covers mortars.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NihilRex on April 10, 2015, 11:17:16 PM
Is it at all possible to make Mortars more realistically accurate?

At no point should Circular Error Probability exceed burst radius, and with the sheer amount of aiming time spent, the aiming error should be rather small as well.

Max accuracy should be at 50% of maximum range, with worst accuracy trending towards the minimum range limit.  The accuracy degradation from midrange to max range should occur at about half the rate as the degredation that occurs between midrange and minimum range.

As a former 0341 Infantry Mortarman, the mortars in this game make me very sad.

Changing the way aiming works is pretty trivial, it mostly comes down to creating a mathematical algorithm to calculate the accuracy at any given range (and not kill your CPU in the process). Current calculations are based on a CEP of 50m and a scale of 1 game cell = 5m. Using the game's ForcedMissRadius (works by generating a random angle and a number between 0 and ForcedMissRadius and applying the resulting vector to the original target you get the cell the mortar will actually shoot at) I set it to 20 so half the rounds should land within 10 cells.

So going with your model and assuming the Rimworld mortar is 120mm with a max range of 6-7km (?) that would put maximum range at 1400 and maximum accuracy at 700 game cells. Now I never operated a mortar so I don't really know what kind of accuracy you can expect at that range and at minimum range (40 cells) but provided some accurate data on the start and end points it should be simple to make the accuracy scale linearly with target distance. Also, what exactly do you mean by burst radius?

On that note, depending on how accurate the game's ForcedMissRadius models CEP that can be adjusted too. I'd love to have some input from an actual expert on military matters when it comes to implementing these things ingame, rather than having to rely on stuff I read on the Internet.

Edit: I've been considering changing the scale of cells to meter from 1 cell = 5m down to 1 cell = 7.5m at least for the long range weapons (=everything except SMGs, pistols and shotguns) so range would be bit more balanced in relation to the game's map size (maximum is 400x400 cells). Anyone have thoughts on that?

Burst radius of the shell - the area covered by the 50% probability of causing lethal injuries.

Rimworld Mortars are probably 60mms or 81mms, not 120mms, as 120s cannot be single manned.

Infantry mortars can be aimed without an FDC, and 60mms can be operated by a single person.  The amount of time the pawns spend aiming the mortar makes me think that they are doing their own FDC math, not just aiming by eye.

Modern 60mm infantry mortars have an effective range of 3490meters with the common M888 HE round.  The lethal radius is approximately 28meters.  http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/figb-5.gif for reference, Vietnam\Cold War era.

EDIT: This would make the mortar bursts have a smaller radius than current, but be much more accurate.  If there is a 6tile lethal and a 12tile casualty radius, impact error should be 8-11 tiles.  Aiming error at 50% range should be no more than 2 tiles.  Obviously, this would need to be tested for playability, and the superscience used by the colonists, but the current system is nowhere near realistic.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: dustysniper on April 10, 2015, 11:41:29 PM
Is it at all possible to make Mortars more realistically accurate?

At no point should Circular Error Probability exceed burst radius, and with the sheer amount of aiming time spent, the aiming error should be rather small as well.

Max accuracy should be at 50% of maximum range, with worst accuracy trending towards the minimum range limit.  The accuracy degradation from midrange to max range should occur at about half the rate as the degredation that occurs between midrange and minimum range.

As a former 0341 Infantry Mortarman, the mortars in this game make me very sad.

Changing the way aiming works is pretty trivial, it mostly comes down to creating a mathematical algorithm to calculate the accuracy at any given range (and not kill your CPU in the process). Current calculations are based on a CEP of 50m and a scale of 1 game cell = 5m. Using the game's ForcedMissRadius (works by generating a random angle and a number between 0 and ForcedMissRadius and applying the resulting vector to the original target you get the cell the mortar will actually shoot at) I set it to 20 so half the rounds should land within 10 cells.

So going with your model and assuming the Rimworld mortar is 120mm with a max range of 6-7km (?) that would put maximum range at 1400 and maximum accuracy at 700 game cells. Now I never operated a mortar so I don't really know what kind of accuracy you can expect at that range and at minimum range (40 cells) but provided some accurate data on the start and end points it should be simple to make the accuracy scale linearly with target distance. Also, what exactly do you mean by burst radius?

On that note, depending on how accurate the game's ForcedMissRadius models CEP that can be adjusted too. I'd love to have some input from an actual expert on military matters when it comes to implementing these things ingame, rather than having to rely on stuff I read on the Internet.

Edit: I've been considering changing the scale of cells to meter from 1 cell = 5m down to 1 cell = 7.5m at least for the long range weapons (=everything except SMGs, pistols and shotguns) so range would be bit more balanced in relation to the game's map size (maximum is 400x400 cells). Anyone have thoughts on that?

Burst radius of the shell - the area covered by the 50% probability of causing lethal injuries.

Rimworld Mortars are probably 60mms or 81mms, not 120mms, as 120s cannot be single manned.

Infantry mortars can be aimed without an FDC, and 60mms can be operated by a single person.  The amount of time the pawns spend aiming the mortar makes me think that they are doing their own FDC math, not just aiming by eye.

Modern 60mm infantry mortars have an effective range of 3490meters with the common M888 HE round.  The lethal radius is approximately 28meters.  http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/figb-5.gif for reference, Vietnam\Cold War era.

EDIT: This would make the mortar bursts have a smaller radius than current, but be much more accurate.  If there is a 6tile lethal and a 12tile casualty radius, impact error should be 8-11 tiles.  Aiming error at 50% range should be no more than 2 tiles.  Obviously, this would need to be tested for playability, and the superscience used by the colonists, but the current system is nowhere near realistic.

120mm mortars can be two manned. You can single man a 81mm mortar. It is most likely a 81mm mortar not a 60 (it is way to big), 60s can be held and carried by one man thats why infantry platoons carry a mortar section with 60s on patrol. And yes mortars can be aimed without FDCs through direct line but these mortars are lobbing over mountains and structures good luck hitting anything without line of sight or a FO. And they could possibly be using a plotting board since it takes them so long. As far as I have ever known the 60mm mortar has a kill radius of 25m 81mm 35m and 120 70-75m.

Also remember at 3490m a 60 is shooting charge 4.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NihilRex on April 10, 2015, 11:58:44 PM
Is it at all possible to make Mortars more realistically accurate?

At no point should Circular Error Probability exceed burst radius, and with the sheer amount of aiming time spent, the aiming error should be rather small as well.

Max accuracy should be at 50% of maximum range, with worst accuracy trending towards the minimum range limit.  The accuracy degradation from midrange to max range should occur at about half the rate as the degredation that occurs between midrange and minimum range.

As a former 0341 Infantry Mortarman, the mortars in this game make me very sad.

Changing the way aiming works is pretty trivial, it mostly comes down to creating a mathematical algorithm to calculate the accuracy at any given range (and not kill your CPU in the process). Current calculations are based on a CEP of 50m and a scale of 1 game cell = 5m. Using the game's ForcedMissRadius (works by generating a random angle and a number between 0 and ForcedMissRadius and applying the resulting vector to the original target you get the cell the mortar will actually shoot at) I set it to 20 so half the rounds should land within 10 cells.

So going with your model and assuming the Rimworld mortar is 120mm with a max range of 6-7km (?) that would put maximum range at 1400 and maximum accuracy at 700 game cells. Now I never operated a mortar so I don't really know what kind of accuracy you can expect at that range and at minimum range (40 cells) but provided some accurate data on the start and end points it should be simple to make the accuracy scale linearly with target distance. Also, what exactly do you mean by burst radius?

On that note, depending on how accurate the game's ForcedMissRadius models CEP that can be adjusted too. I'd love to have some input from an actual expert on military matters when it comes to implementing these things ingame, rather than having to rely on stuff I read on the Internet.

Edit: I've been considering changing the scale of cells to meter from 1 cell = 5m down to 1 cell = 7.5m at least for the long range weapons (=everything except SMGs, pistols and shotguns) so range would be bit more balanced in relation to the game's map size (maximum is 400x400 cells). Anyone have thoughts on that?

Burst radius of the shell - the area covered by the 50% probability of causing lethal injuries.

Rimworld Mortars are probably 60mms or 81mms, not 120mms, as 120s cannot be single manned.

Infantry mortars can be aimed without an FDC, and 60mms can be operated by a single person.  The amount of time the pawns spend aiming the mortar makes me think that they are doing their own FDC math, not just aiming by eye.

Modern 60mm infantry mortars have an effective range of 3490meters with the common M888 HE round.  The lethal radius is approximately 28meters.  http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/figb-5.gif for reference, Vietnam\Cold War era.

EDIT: This would make the mortar bursts have a smaller radius than current, but be much more accurate.  If there is a 6tile lethal and a 12tile casualty radius, impact error should be 8-11 tiles.  Aiming error at 50% range should be no more than 2 tiles.  Obviously, this would need to be tested for playability, and the superscience used by the colonists, but the current system is nowhere near realistic.

120mm mortars can be two manned. You can single man a 81mm mortar. It is most likely a 81mm mortar not a 60 (it is way to big), 60s can be held and carried by one man thats why infantry platoons carry a mortar section with 60s on patrol. And yes mortars can be aimed without FDCs through direct line but these mortars are lobbing over mountains and structures good luck hitting anything without line of sight or a FO. And they could possibly be using a plotting board since it takes them so long. As far as I have ever known the 60mm mortar has a kill radius of 25m 81mm 35m and 120 70-75m.

Also remember at 3490m a 60 is shooting charge 4.

Charge 4 is no issue.

81s can be 1manned, but not accurately.  How are you gonna hold the adjustable leg down and safely drop the round?  You can sandbag the fixed leg, but the adjustable leg needs your palm, using your foot would either jostle it or let it move too much for accuracy.

60s on charge 1, handheld, max out at either 400m or 500m IIRC, and fire a LOT faster than these.  It is still possible for a 1st year enlistee to get steel on steel hits on a tank hulk.  It was either a Patton or an Abrams before it became a target.  (I know, because I've both done it and seen it done by others.) 

60mm mortars have a minimum range of 70-100meters depending on datasource, my memory claims that was 75meters was the short impact range we had aiming data for.

81mm mortars has a minimum range of 83m per http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=146

If the mod author prefers 81s, it is 6490m, with a lethal burst radius of 8tiles and a casualty fragmentation radius of 16, with CEP of 0-7 tiles, and aiming error of 0-2tiles at medium range.  (All tile numbers based on 5m tiles.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: dustysniper on April 11, 2015, 12:53:15 AM
Quote
Charge 4 is no issue.

81s can be 1manned, but not accurately.  How are you gonna hold the adjustable leg down and safely drop the round?  You can sandbag the fixed leg, but the adjustable leg needs your palm, using your foot would either jostle it or let it move too much for accuracy.

60s on charge 1, handheld, max out at either 400m or 500m IIRC, and fire a LOT faster than these.  It is still possible for a 1st year enlistee to get steel on steel hits on a tank hulk.  It was either a Patton or an Abrams before it became a target.  (I know, because I've both done it and seen it done by others.) 

60mm mortars have a minimum range of 70-100meters depending on datasource, my memory claims that was 75meters was the short impact range we had aiming data for.

81mm mortars has a minimum range of 83m per http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=146

If the mod author prefers 81s, it is 6490m, with a lethal burst radius of 8tiles and a casualty fragmentation radius of 16, with CEP of 0-7 tiles, and aiming error of 0-2tiles at medium range.  (All tile numbers based on 5m tiles.

I dont know where these facts are coming from. As long as rounds are prepped a gunner can 1 man a 81mm you dont need to hold the adjustable leg, the collar locking mechanism is designed to do that. And after the first round it should be seated into the ground with the base plate. I have one manned 81mm mortars before  hung rounds and gunned during a fire for effect and still had all rounds complete before first impact. Charge 1 60mm mortars hit out to 1340 m, charge zero is 722m, Im looking at a wiz wheel right now. 60s are incredibly accurate in handheld if you know how to probably use elevation bubble. Ive seen MGs hit at 1200m and hit targets at 1000m. 75m is the min range of a 60 for FPF. The max effective range of a 81 is 5608m and a FPF of 83m. You can hit closer than a FPF but your likely to hit friendlies and yourself. This is coming from the mortar bible fm 3-22.90. The issue from charge 4 comes from tube wear you fire to many to fast your tube well glow even under a sustain ROF.  Could you realistically be your own FDC prep rounds and gun I doubt it. It would take way to long.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 11, 2015, 01:47:35 AM
81s can be 1manned, but not accurately.  How are you gonna hold the adjustable leg down and safely drop the round?  You can sandbag the fixed leg, but the adjustable leg needs your palm, using your foot would either jostle it or let it move too much for accuracy.

Keep in mind that Rimworld doesn't use modern day mortars but some kind of homemade that is a) a fixed installation and b) uses a control panel to operate. Most of the mechanical tasks are probably done by machines and the operator only has to load and adjust angle and elevation on the panel. When comparing to modern day equipment it would be closer to something like a 2S9 than a man-portable mortar. That said I'll probably go with a 81, simply because the lower range is more meaningful on Rimworld scale.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: LustrousWolf on April 11, 2015, 06:05:52 AM
How do I defend against mechs? they just shoot at my colonists and 1 by one they all die, and my turrets, none of them stand a chance against the mechs .-.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 11, 2015, 06:46:36 AM
How do I defend against mechs? they just shoot at my colonists and 1 by one they all die, and my turrets, none of them stand a chance against the mechs .-.

Scythers should go down fairly quickly to some concentrated fire. Centipedes you get a lot of colonists to focus fire on one. Position your colonists so that they can always break line of sight by retreating behind a wall or other obstruction, do this whenever a Centipede takes aim at a colonist, then move them back out after the mech is done firing.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: LustrousWolf on April 11, 2015, 07:03:45 AM
How do I defend against mechs? they just shoot at my colonists and 1 by one they all die, and my turrets, none of them stand a chance against the mechs .-.

Scythers should go down fairly quickly to some concentrated fire. Centipedes you get a lot of colonists to focus fire on one. Position your colonists so that they can always break line of sight by retreating behind a wall or other obstruction, do this whenever a Centipede takes aim at a colonist, then move them back out after the mech is done firing.

Yes that is how you can fight them, but with CR its really difficult to do that :/ Like you tell a colonist to move, 5 seconds later they try to move and get mowed down by the rain of bullets from the minigun :C so i was wondering if you had to fight them differently with CR installed?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 11, 2015, 07:12:13 AM
How do I defend against mechs? they just shoot at my colonists and 1 by one they all die, and my turrets, none of them stand a chance against the mechs .-.

Scythers should go down fairly quickly to some concentrated fire. Centipedes you get a lot of colonists to focus fire on one. Position your colonists so that they can always break line of sight by retreating behind a wall or other obstruction, do this whenever a Centipede takes aim at a colonist, then move them back out after the mech is done firing.

Yes that is how you can fight them, but with CR its really difficult to do that :/ Like you tell a colonist to move, 5 seconds later they try to move and get mowed down by the rain of bullets from the minigun :C so i was wondering if you had to fight them differently with CR installed?

Some weapons like the survival rifle have high cooldown times (it takes time to operate a bolt, tear down an MG etc.) so they can't move immediately after firing. MGs also have a long burst duration. You need to be especially careful with these weapons when employing them against Centipedes/pirates with MGs.

If people have trouble with mechs I'm considering making an instructional video to showcase some tactics I personally use against various types of raids.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: bartekkru100 on April 11, 2015, 11:10:58 AM
Can someone make it work for Glitter Tech guns?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NihilRex on April 11, 2015, 11:41:56 AM
81s can be 1manned, but not accurately.  How are you gonna hold the adjustable leg down and safely drop the round?  You can sandbag the fixed leg, but the adjustable leg needs your palm, using your foot would either jostle it or let it move too much for accuracy.

Keep in mind that Rimworld doesn't use modern day mortars but some kind of homemade that is a) a fixed installation and b) uses a control panel to operate. Most of the mechanical tasks are probably done by machines and the operator only has to load and adjust angle and elevation on the panel. When comparing to modern day equipment it would be closer to something like a 2S9 than a man-portable mortar. That said I'll probably go with a 81, simply because the lower range is more meaningful on Rimworld scale.

I was not the Artillery, so towed\self-propelled systems are beyond my experience.  I would think they were more accurate than the man-portable and man-transportable options though.

Also, Id never heard of the 2S9, so I looked it up.  Neat toy, someone should drop one off in my driveway for my birthday. An amphibious 120mm mortar in an articulated turret?  The local duck population will never recover.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 11, 2015, 12:53:39 PM
Speaking of fun, I finished my work on accuracy: forcedMissRadius was reduced from 20 to 17.4 and is now multiplied by 1 - targetDistance / maxRange. So it would be 0 tiles at range 500, 10.44 at 200 tiles and ca. 16 at the minimum range of 32 tiles (any closer and the mortar could score a direct hit on itself and that's just silly) corresponding to a CEP of 0-8 tiles from max to min range. For reference, fragments go for up to 16 tiles.

I have now started conducting some ingame tests to balance lethality :D

(http://i.imgur.com/5Hs8xVY.png)

My metric is that balance is right when a shell hitting the center knocks out half the pawns in the blue circle (~7 tiles).

In unrelated news I also made some tweaks to the AI and if I'm right pirates should actually engage from much larger ranges now instead of wading through MG fire for no reason. I'm currently doing some playtesting to confirm this and as soon as that's done the new version will go up.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.1 (08.03.15) Bugs and Balance
Post by: NihilRex on April 11, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Speaking of fun, I finished my work on accuracy: forcedMissRadius was reduced from 20 to 17.4 and is now multiplied by 1 - targetDistance / maxRange. So it would be 0 tiles at range 500, 10.44 at 200 tiles and ca. 16 at the minimum range of 32 tiles (any closer and the mortar could score a direct hit on itself and that's just silly) corresponding to a CEP of 0-8 tiles from max to min range. For reference, fragments go for up to 16 tiles.

I have now started conducting some ingame tests to balance lethality :D

(http://i.imgur.com/5Hs8xVY.png)

My metric is that balance is right when a shell hitting the center knocks out half the pawns in the blue circle (~7 tiles).

In unrelated news I also made some tweaks to the AI and if I'm right pirates should actually engage from much larger ranges now instead of wading through MG fire for no reason. I'm currently doing some playtesting to confirm this and as soon as that's done the new version will go up.

From what little I can see, that looks awesome.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 12, 2015, 03:45:18 PM
Version 1.1.2 is up

Rebalanced mortars and tweaked raider AI, for more details see changelog.

PS To anyone having trouble with Centipedes, in my recent test game I finally got around to using an EMP mortar and it is extremely useful. One shell will stun mechanoids in a large area and for a long duration while colonists are free to take potshots at them, so if you're having trouble try one.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NihilRex on April 12, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
Version 1.1.2 is up

Rebalanced mortars and tweaked raider AI, for more details see changelog.

PS To anyone having trouble with Centipedes, in my recent test game I finally got around to using an EMP mortar and it is extremely useful. One shell will stun mechanoids in a large area and for a long duration while colonists are free to take potshots at them, so if you're having trouble try one.

Im still testing, but so far, Im not seeing the new more accurate behavior.  Will continue to test.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 13, 2015, 03:41:20 AM
Im still testing, but so far, Im not seeing the new more accurate behavior.  Will continue to test.

Just went and tested to make sure I didn't screw up somewhere. Placed 10 mortars at the lower edge of a 400x400 map, made them fire at the center sandbag on the upper edge. The arms of the cross are 5 tiles each. Target distance is approx. 350 tiles, maximum deviation from target should be 5-6 tiles from target not accounting for aiming error.
(http://i.imgur.com/HlYrXh6.gif)
I fired multiple salvos, they all performed as expected. The technical implementation is definitely there, maybe you're just not noticing it because of the ranges involved? If you're building your colony in the middle of the map and/or playing on less than maximum map size the effect is going to be much less pronounced due to scale. For the record I've been assuming a maximum range of 1000 tiles with maximum accuracy at 500.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NihilRex on April 13, 2015, 11:40:13 AM
Not a problem, I see it now that I recreate your test.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: Chaplain on April 13, 2015, 12:33:12 PM
I like this mod and yet it refuses to play with Superior Craft.  I am sad.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: Carlsf on April 14, 2015, 06:54:44 AM
Do You consider making compability patch for Cybernetic Storm? There is few weapons and I realy love those two mods.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 14, 2015, 07:05:15 AM
Do You consider making compability patch for Cybernetic Storm? There is few weapons and I realy love those two mods.

I'll have some free time this week I want to use to implement the next big feature for this mod. Depending on how fast that goes I might have a look at creating compatibility patches for some of the larger mods out there, no promises though.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: dustysniper on April 17, 2015, 08:17:08 PM
does this work on alpha 10?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 18, 2015, 02:54:51 AM
does this work on alpha 10?

Not yet, I'll probably have an update tomorrow.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: dustysniper on April 18, 2015, 07:55:12 PM
does this work on alpha 10?

Not yet, I'll probably have an update tomorrow.

Thanks. I actually wont play rimworld without this and the EDB mods lol.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: staffy50 on April 19, 2015, 07:36:30 AM
Looks great. Just waiting on the Alpha 10 patch :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NihilRex on April 20, 2015, 12:53:11 PM
With A10 out, I have a new request... can I get a magazine fed Dragon automortar?  Small caliber, 1 shell = ~5 projectiles, max range ~120 tiles, and minimum range ~ 10 tiles.  Im having issues in the newest version with defiladed enemies, which is pretty awesome from an AI standpoint, but annoying as a player.

If impossible, I will understand.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 22, 2015, 02:25:08 PM
Alpha 10 version is up. Haven't playtested it so may be unbalanced and/or buggy. Reduced range on certain weapons, let me know what you guys think. Defence Pack and Rimfire compatibility patch coming soon. I also reorganized some code and it seems the FPS drop from mortars is significantly bigger now. I'm not sure if this is due to the new code structure or A10 but its probably best to not build too many mortars. I'll have a look at it in the near future.

Thanks. I actually wont play rimworld without this and the EDB mods lol.

Ha, I felt the same way about the original Realistic Weapons mod, which is why I made this one.

With A10 out, I have a new request... can I get a magazine fed Dragon automortar?  Small caliber, 1 shell = ~5 projectiles, max range ~120 tiles, and minimum range ~ 10 tiles.  Im having issues in the newest version with defiladed enemies, which is pretty awesome from an AI standpoint, but annoying as a player.

If impossible, I will understand.

Never heard of it TBH and Google only turns up this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Fire_%28mortar%29). Going by your description its fairly easy to implement from a technical POV and I'm not opposed to including something like it in the Defence Pack. Problem is I'm not a spriter and the best I could come up with in that regard would be a reskinned vanilla mortar.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: ozuf on April 23, 2015, 06:06:43 PM
Alpha 10 version is up. ...
Fantastic work, sir! I wonder though, for those of us who are not quite ready for the A10 update, could you perhaps retain a download for A9 the core mod? I too feel this mod is essential :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 9) Combat Realism v.1.1.2 (12.04.15) AI and mortars
Post by: NihilRex on April 24, 2015, 09:01:11 PM
With A10 out, I have a new request... can I get a magazine fed Dragon automortar?  Small caliber, 1 shell = ~5 projectiles, max range ~120 tiles, and minimum range ~ 10 tiles.  Im having issues in the newest version with defiladed enemies, which is pretty awesome from an AI standpoint, but annoying as a player.

If impossible, I will understand.

Never heard of it TBH and Google only turns up this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Fire_%28mortar%29). Going by your description its fairly easy to implement from a technical POV and I'm not opposed to including something like it in the Defence Pack. Problem is I'm not a spriter and the best I could come up with in that regard would be a reskinned vanilla mortar.

I'd be  fine with a reskinned sprite.  I never worked with the Dragons, and only had scuttlebutt to go on, but it supposedly had cassette fed rounds and could acquire and fire a mission within 30seconds of recieving a digital call for fire.  Probably just rumor exaggerating \ conflating the Dragonfire.

Like I said, I was thinking shortrange, low damage, and a burstfire type system, just something to help clear out pesky pirates hiding in defilade.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Plymouth on April 25, 2015, 03:07:34 PM
NoImageAvailable,

Project Armory 3.00 is out.

Would you mind undergoing a huge piece of work and converting damage in this mod to realistic values? Everything else but damage is calculated by realistic metric values, so no need to change those. Me and Evul would be glad to include a link to your mod as a must-have addition to PA.  :D
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 25, 2015, 04:09:06 PM
NoImageAvailable,

Project Armory 3.00 is out.

Would you mind undergoing a huge piece of work and converting damage in this mod to realistic values? Everything else but damage is calculated by realistic metric values, so no need to change those. Me and Evul would be glad to include a link to your mod as a must-have addition to PA.  :D

Already had a first look, I'll have it done tomorrow since its bed-time over here. Also found the first bug, the British Bulldog has infinite range because there is a "," where a "." should be.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Plymouth on April 25, 2015, 04:11:55 PM


Already had a first look, I'll have it done tomorrow since its bed-time over here. Also found the first bug, the British Bulldog has infinite range because there is a "," where a "." should be.

Oh man, this is embarrasing.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: bang on April 26, 2015, 03:11:41 AM
I was wondering If you could incorporate rimsenal into your mod ? They're awesome weapons that really fit into the universe !
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Kolljak on April 26, 2015, 08:32:37 PM
Does the Project Armoury version work on the current armoury? anyone know?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 27, 2015, 02:00:32 AM
Does the Project Armoury version work on the current armoury? anyone know?

No, I'll hopefully have the new version ready for release today.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Kolljak on April 27, 2015, 12:27:07 PM
Awsome. this is one of the mods in my personal modpack i may release at a later date. im just waiting for the game to exit Alpha before releasing any mods or packs do to the code constantly changing.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Jan2607 on April 28, 2015, 07:07:49 AM
Do I need to start a new colony, when I want to play with this mod?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 28, 2015, 07:38:24 AM
Do I need to start a new colony, when I want to play with this mod?

No Yes
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Stonyly on April 28, 2015, 08:01:55 AM
When is this going to be updated for Project Armory ?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Jan2607 on April 28, 2015, 09:36:39 AM
Oooooops :P

This is the CR Core mod.
Also installed are:

EdB Prepare Carefully
Craftable guns (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10850.0)
OmniDefence by Skullywag

What of these mods could cause this nice Screen?
And I named the CR core mod file DCombatRealism, because this mod was above the Core mod and I didn't know how to change this. Thanks to the D it ist now under Core.
But that couldn't cause the problem, right?

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Kolljak on April 28, 2015, 09:45:02 AM
I cant read that error can you copy and paste what it says into the post.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Jan2607 on April 28, 2015, 10:23:00 AM
1 [Name of Version]
1 Initialized the EdB Prepare Carefully mod
2 Def-linked translation error: Found no Verse.JobDef named PrivateTime to match PrivateTime.reportString
1 Initializing map from file A10 with mods Core, Craftable guns, EdB Prepare Carefully and OmniDefence
1 Def-linked translation error: Found no Verse.JobDef named PrivateTime to match PrivateTime.reportString
1 Initializing map from file A10 with mods Core, Craftable guns, EdB Prepare Carefully, OmniDefence and DCombatRealism
1 Map compressor decompressing error: No thingDef with short hash 12796. Adding as null to Dictionary
1390 (number is still raising) Object reference not set to an instance of an Object

Copy and paste wasn't possible, I had to copy out the text.


Do I need to start a new colony, when I want to play with this mod?

No

Alright, I found a solution to this. You NEED to start a new colony.

I tried to start a new colony with all these mods AND Combat Realism, and there was no error.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 28, 2015, 10:59:25 AM
Went and tested it, apparently the AI changes I recently introduced do require a new colony to work.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Jan2607 on April 28, 2015, 11:35:43 AM
Okay, thanks for information :)
I hope, the CR Defence Addon will be updated soon, I want to have these Brownings :D
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: jal21 on April 28, 2015, 03:27:21 PM
(have not gone throw resint post on this thred but im still going to say it)
OI up date to PA can you pleas work on the rebalince i would like to get my colines heads shot off from a cuple of miles away from a smiper
Title: Combat Realism
Post by: skyarkhangel on April 28, 2015, 09:56:32 PM

Combat realism? it's a damn crazy combat mod. It seems you've never used a weapon in real life.
You made a serious mistake without taking into consideration parameters such as:
1) the caliber of the bullets, respectively recoil after the shot. In your mod minigun bullets 5,56x45 caliber shooting at the same distance as a sniper rifle with a caliber 7,62x51.
2) Lethal force of a bullet 7,62x51 caliber about 3 times stronger than 5,56x45. Currently weapon damage is the same..
3) The weight of the weapon. In your mod no difference colonist took up a two-pound gun  or 15-30 pound minigun. There is no decrease in the speed of movement. Usability of firearms plays a very important role, which affects everything.

7,62x51 vs. 5,56x45
(http://www.spec-naz.org/armory/images/7.62x51-vs-5.56x45-2-267x300.jpg)

For comparison:
5,56x45 Bullet weight - 3.6 g. Muzzle velocity of the bullet - 975 m/s. Muzzle energy ~ 1690 joules.
7,62x51 Bullet weight - 10.2 g. Muzzle velocity of the bullet - 840 m/s. Muzzle energy ~3600 Joules


P.S. Сurrently not playable at all.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Kolljak on April 28, 2015, 11:59:35 PM
Honestly both would hurt like a bitch but the main diffrence is

7.62
72% armour pen on standard kevlar
90% on Kevlar Helmet
Kick's like a mule so accuracy is down

5.56 Standard nato

20% pen on Kevlar
20% on Kevlar Helmet
Lower Kick higher marksmen ratings.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Ninefinger on April 29, 2015, 12:23:00 AM
I have a modified version that i use for my Ultimate Overhaul Modpack feel free to check it out and use it however you want, you can ignore the SCA10Core, the Rimfire Combat Realism Rework (the rework is for Alistaire), and the fact that combat realism is missing files since it is simply a modified patch for compatibility with my modpack. just focus on the Weapons_Guns.xml for the numbers that i have used and feel free to let me know what you guys think, and ignore the <smeltProducts> <SteelBar>10</SteelBar> </smeltProducts> this is for compatibility with Superior Crafting. Here is the link: http://goo.gl/Ri2lIJ
Title: Re: Combat Realism
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 29, 2015, 02:51:28 AM
Combat realism? it's a damn crazy combat mod. It seems you've never used a weapon in real life.
You made a serious mistake without taking into consideration parameters such as:
1) the caliber of the bullets, respectively recoil after the shot. In your mod minigun bullets 5,56x45 caliber shooting at the same distance as a sniper rifle with a caliber 7,62x51.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun

Quote
The M134 Minigun is a 7.62x51 mm NATO, six-barreled machine gun with a high rate of fire (2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute).

Quote
2) Lethal force of a bullet 7,62x51 caliber about 3 times stronger than 5,56x45. Currently weapon damage is the same..

Muzzle energy != lethal force. It is energy transfered that matters and that depends on bullet ballistics, tumbling, etc. more than initial energy and it is well known that pistol bullets can be more effective at close range than assault rifles with several times more muzzle energy. Just because 7.62 has 3 times the energy than 5.56 does not mean it does 3 times more damage.

Quote
3) The weight of the weapon. In your mod no difference colonist took up a two-pound gun  or 15-30 pound minigun. There is no decrease in the speed of movement. Usability of firearms plays a very important role, which affects everything.

Yes there is.
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9759.0;attach=7940;image)
And the Minigun is not obtainable at all, if you somehow did it is a bug. It is not a weapon that can be carried by one person.

I don't appreciate your tone, either. If you have criticisms, voice them in a civilized manner, don't go on about how terrible and unplayable the mod is if you didn't even familiarize yourself with its basic features. This isn't 4chan.

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Ninefinger on April 29, 2015, 03:39:56 AM
Dont worry about the critics NoImageAvailable your mod is awesome and this is a game not real life, the combat is more realistic and that is what the mod is designed for that is the bottom line, and you have done a very nice job of it, and numbers can always be tweaked but haters will always be haters lol
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Jan2607 on April 29, 2015, 07:10:38 AM
Dont worry about the critics NoImageAvailable your mod is awesome and this is a game not real life, the combat is more realistic and that is what the mod is designed for that is the bottom line, and you have done a very nice job of it, and numbers can always be tweaked but haters will always be haters lol

I agree with you!
I like this mod very much :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: akiceabear on April 29, 2015, 09:32:49 AM
Dont worry about the critics NoImageAvailable your mod is awesome and this is a game not real life, the combat is more realistic and that is what the mod is designed for that is the bottom line, and you have done a very nice job of it, and numbers can always be tweaked but haters will always be haters lol

+1

I found the content of the exchange interesting, but strongly agree that the criticism should have been offered in a more civil manner. A nice thing about this community is that it is generally very friendly - our responsibility to keep it that way.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: MelanisticAlbino on May 02, 2015, 12:15:41 PM
Love this mod, thanks for you work!

Can't wait for the project armory update, if it's on the way :)
Title: Re: Combat Realism
Post by: dustysniper on May 02, 2015, 12:34:42 PM

Combat realism? it's a damn crazy combat mod. It seems you've never used a weapon in real life.
You made a serious mistake without taking into consideration parameters such as:
1) the caliber of the bullets, respectively recoil after the shot. In your mod minigun bullets 5,56x45 caliber shooting at the same distance as a sniper rifle with a caliber 7,62x51.
2) Lethal force of a bullet 7,62x51 caliber about 3 times stronger than 5,56x45. Currently weapon damage is the same..
3) The weight of the weapon. In your mod no difference colonist took up a two-pound gun  or 15-30 pound minigun. There is no decrease in the speed of movement. Usability of firearms plays a very important role, which affects everything.

First off have you ever shot a real gun in a real combat situation? Ive missed people at less than 100m in real combat and Ive never missed a paper target during my service time. Lethal force of a 7.62 is 3 times stronger? Where are these facts coming from? Its not about the type of bullet its about where the target is hit and what the round does inside the body. Talk to any combat surgeon 7.62 is an easy bullet to treat 5.56 is terrible since its bounces around in the body and shreds everything. And aweomse mod.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 02, 2015, 12:41:25 PM
Love this mod, thanks for you work!

Can't wait for the project armory update, if it's on the way :)

PA update was more work than I expected due to the severity of changes between versions. As I don't have much free time during the week I mostly work on it on weekends. Hence the delay with the Defence Pack and PA update. On the bright side, damage changes are all done and right now I'm looking mostly at 3-4 hours of shuffling around spreadsheets and googleing specs for obscure weapons so it should hopefully get done tomorrow.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Armyguy on May 02, 2015, 02:30:59 PM
PA update was more work than I expected due to the severity of changes between versions. As I don't have much free time during the week I mostly work on it on weekends. Hence the delay with the Defence Pack and PA update. On the bright side, damage changes are all done and right now I'm looking mostly at 3-4 hours of shuffling around spreadsheets and googleing specs for obscure weapons so it should hopefully get done tomorrow.
Well to save you some time on googleing (and so get the update faster i hope) don't forget about http://world.guns.ru/index-e.html that has most of the IRL guns in PA.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 03, 2015, 06:54:06 AM
Released version 1.2.1, mostly just groundwork for the PA update.

Well to save you some time on googleing (and so get the update faster i hope) don't forget about http://world.guns.ru/index-e.html that has most of the IRL guns in PA.

Thanks, though I already use that site as a reference. Google is mostly used for those obscure weapons like the Sjorgen rifle which don't even have a Wikipedia article.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.0 (22.04.15) Range rebalance
Post by: Evul on May 03, 2015, 06:56:37 AM
Google is mostly used for those obscure weapons like the Sjorgen rifle which don't even have a Wikipedia article.

Yeah finding values for obscure weapons is sometimes hard.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.1 (03.05.15) Misc adjustments
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 03, 2015, 07:06:45 PM
As a heads up on the PA update, the spreadsheet work is done, tomorrow I'll be moving on to the exiting tasks of Google and copy-paste.
Title: Re: Combat Realism
Post by: skyarkhangel on May 04, 2015, 03:09:16 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun

The M134 Minigun is a 7.62x51 mm NATO, six-barreled machine gun with a high rate of fire (2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun
5,56x45 microgun.
I suppose "Arnold" the colonist can take this but not for a long time.

But....
In your mod colonist run with 40 pound 7,62 Minigun  ;)
It's not real...
Title: Re: Combat Realism
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 04, 2015, 04:31:47 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun

The M134 Minigun is a 7.62x51 mm NATO, six-barreled machine gun with a high rate of fire (2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun
5,56x45 microgun.
I suppose "Arnold" the colonist can take this but not for a long time.

But....
In your mod colonist run with 40 pound 7,62 Minigun  ;)
It's not real...

1) The weapon in the game is very clearly labeled Minigun
2) I already told you, it is not obtainable, it is Centipedes only
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.1 (03.05.15) Misc adjustments
Post by: Carlsf on May 08, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Fantastic work! Now I wait only for Deffence update. It shouldn't be hard to update.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.1 (03.05.15) Misc adjustments
Post by: ChiefSlapahoe on May 08, 2015, 11:23:32 PM
Any idea when the updates for project armory and defense will be released??
looking forward to em  :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.1 (03.05.15) Misc adjustments
Post by: GamerGuy on May 09, 2015, 02:39:01 AM
I had a colonist with 13 shooting and a survival rifle. I got attacked by 4 enemys with personal shields and long swords, my colonist 1 shot his shied from the furthest range and then shot his leg off, he killed everyone without missing once and 2 shot everyone of them before they got hafe way. I just think this is way to op and have turned the mod off because it makes the game unfair.

Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.1 (03.05.15) Misc adjustments
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 09, 2015, 04:42:49 AM
I had a colonist with 13 shooting and a survival rifle. I got attacked by 4 enemys with personal shields and long swords, my colonist 1 shot his shied from the furthest range and then shot his leg off, he killed everyone without missing once and 2 shot everyone of them before they got hafe way. I just think this is way to op and have turned the mod off because it makes the game unfair.

Thanks for the feedback, I did have a look at the accuracy and will be bringing it in line with the recent changes to gun range. Do keep in mind however that what happened to you was 4 pirates with low quality equipment charging into melee against a crackshot sniper with a long range rifle and I don't think the outcome was unfair or unbalanced. Wouldn't be very fair to have that fancy assassin who just sits around all day get shived by a random pair of chumps, would it?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.2 (03.05.15) Project Armory version
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 09, 2015, 04:12:34 PM
Update:

Version 1.2.2 is out. Rifle type (except sniper) weapons now have higher accuracy penalties over distance. As always, feedback is appreciated.

Project Armory version released: Comes in two versions, light and regular. Regular has all the weapons except M2HB (for obvious reasons). Light removes weapons which I personally feel are unnecessary, bloat the game or otherwise detract from the experience, such as renaissance era weapons, obscure niche weapons like the AS Val and VSS which don't work within the Rimworld combat system or weapons that otherwise needlessly bloat the game (*cough* 20 different Bolter variants *cough*).
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.2 (03.05.15) Project Armory version
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 10, 2015, 12:47:16 PM
Defence Pack Update:

Updated the Defence Pack to Alpha 10. The new turrets are no longer buildable, instead they need to be purchased from traders and installed like art pieces. Make sure to download the latest version of the main mod as well. Credit goes to BBream for the minified turret code.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 12, 2015, 05:18:40 PM
Triple-posting updates, either I'm really fast on the updates or thread-activity has taken a dive :-\

Buffed melee to make it more competitive. Also, by request the AGS-30 automatic grenade launcher has been added to the Defence Pack (not exactly an automatic mortar, but I think this works just as well for taking out defiladed enemies)

(http://i.imgur.com/Em1mi6o.png) (http://i.imgur.com/AO7zOXz.gif)
(Click image for animated preview)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on May 12, 2015, 06:27:34 PM
No comments except this remains my fav mod! may comment when back from vacation and able to give the newer versions a try - but I like what I'm reading about turrets so far.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on May 15, 2015, 12:06:04 PM
ISSUES WHERE MADE......
Lmao sorry had to but any way....
error report i think i broke your mod but here you are my good sir
http://puu.sh/hOi83/e40067e3c0.png (http://puu.sh/hOi83/e40067e3c0.png)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 15, 2015, 12:13:47 PM
ISSUES WHERE MADE......
Lmao sorry had to but any way....
error report i think i broke your mod but here you are my good sir
http://puu.sh/hOi83/e40067e3c0.png (http://puu.sh/hOi83/e40067e3c0.png)

Seems like a load order issue. Download EdB Mod Order if you haven't already (link is in the OP) and make sure Combat Realism Defence is listed below Combat Realism Core.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mckee on May 15, 2015, 05:22:53 PM
Is there any way to rotate the new gun turrets? Bought an M2, but only able to install it with the interact spot facing south. Tried rotating with the usual q and e keys, but no joy.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 15, 2015, 05:53:09 PM
Is there any way to rotate the new gun turrets? Bought an M2, but only able to install it with the interact spot facing south. Tried rotating with the usual q and e keys, but no joy.

That's odd, in my game I am able to rotate turrets using q and e. Are you running any other mods?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NihilRex on May 15, 2015, 08:09:02 PM
Is there any way to rotate the new gun turrets? Bought an M2, but only able to install it with the interact spot facing south. Tried rotating with the usual q and e keys, but no joy.

I have the same issue with TVs when EdB UI mod is installed.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mckee on May 16, 2015, 04:57:06 AM
Is there any way to rotate the new gun turrets? Bought an M2, but only able to install it with the interact spot facing south. Tried rotating with the usual q and e keys, but no joy.

That's odd, in my game I am able to rotate turrets using q and e. Are you running any other mods?

I'm running the EDB UI, mod order and prepare carefully, as well as project armory, vein miner and the finer things in life mod.
I've not had any conflicts arising from them apart from this - I'm not sure if any of them change the placement of stuff like turrets or art, but not noticed it.

It seems to work fine firing through my pawn (Thankfully).
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 16, 2015, 05:23:55 AM
Is there any way to rotate the new gun turrets? Bought an M2, but only able to install it with the interact spot facing south. Tried rotating with the usual q and e keys, but no joy.

That's odd, in my game I am able to rotate turrets using q and e. Are you running any other mods?

I'm running the EDB UI, mod order and prepare carefully, as well as project armory, vein miner and the finer things in life mod.
I've not had any conflicts arising from them apart from this - I'm not sure if any of them change the placement of stuff like turrets or art, but not noticed it.

It seems to work fine firing through my pawn (Thankfully).

I can't seem to replicate the bug. I've also been running every one of these mods except for finer things and had no issues so far. Looking over the changelog for EdB UI it mentions a bugfix for the rotation menu of minified things for version 2.7.2, did you install the most recent version?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mckee on May 16, 2015, 04:14:10 PM
I can't seem to replicate the bug. I've also been running every one of these mods except for finer things and had no issues so far. Looking over the changelog for EdB UI it mentions a bugfix for the rotation menu of minified things for version 2.7.2, did you install the most recent version?

That EDB update cracked it, thanks. I can rotate the turret now, cheers.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: AllenWL on May 17, 2015, 01:39:30 AM
I downloaded the project armory pack, light, and the razor wind(I think that's what it's called. The saw-blade thingy) doesn't work. My pawns equip it, they take aim, but then, they just sit around and don't shoot.

It's loaded after combat realism, and no other weapons(so far) are having problems.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 17, 2015, 01:57:21 AM
I downloaded the project armory pack, light, and the razor wind(I think that's what it's called. The saw-blade thingy) doesn't work. My pawns equip it, they take aim, but then, they just sit around and don't shoot.

It's loaded after combat realism, and no other weapons(so far) are having problems.

This is a problem with Project Armory itself, see https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1950.msg131628#msg131628
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on May 17, 2015, 06:22:27 AM
Does this work with the vanilla turrets mod?


http://puu.sh/hQosU/cbc56632cf.png (http://puu.sh/hQosU/cbc56632cf.png) i got this when i loaded the mods in that order
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 18, 2015, 02:04:12 PM
Does this work with the vanilla turrets mod?


http://puu.sh/hQosU/cbc56632cf.png (http://puu.sh/hQosU/cbc56632cf.png) i got this when i loaded the mods in that order

Did you install the latest version of the core mod?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: jerome736 on May 18, 2015, 02:34:51 PM
Is there any way to get the Defense pack split off so that it doesn't rely on anything from the primary mod? I'm looking primarily to utilize the barbed wire.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 18, 2015, 03:38:04 PM
Is there any way to get the Defense pack split off so that it doesn't rely on anything from the primary mod? I'm looking primarily to utilize the barbed wire.

The dependency comes mainly from the turrets, the structures themselves are completely standalone.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: jerome736 on May 18, 2015, 04:09:36 PM
Is there any way to get the Defense pack split off so that it doesn't rely on anything from the primary mod? I'm looking primarily to utilize the barbed wire.

The dependency comes mainly from the turrets, the structures themselves are completely standalone.

So I'm pretty much a neophyte when it comes to Rimworld mods, how do I split it off? When I try it with the mod loaded it throws a bunch of errors (that refer to turret type stuff).
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 18, 2015, 04:41:04 PM
Is there any way to get the Defense pack split off so that it doesn't rely on anything from the primary mod? I'm looking primarily to utilize the barbed wire.

The dependency comes mainly from the turrets, the structures themselves are completely standalone.

So I'm pretty much a neophyte when it comes to Rimworld mods, how do I split it off? When I try it with the mod loaded it throws a bunch of errors (that refer to turret type stuff).

The only files relevant to the buildings are Defs/ThingDefs/Buildings_Defenses.xml and some textures, just delete everything else.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on May 22, 2015, 11:34:29 PM
Is the M2 Browning working the current Defense addon? I'm not seeing it under the Security tab. On 10f, I've stripped down to only EdB mod order and these two (core then defense) to avoid conflicts, still not seeing it...
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mrshilka on May 23, 2015, 01:42:05 AM
The turrets are sold by the combat supplier, not built.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on May 23, 2015, 02:09:39 AM
Ah, got it, that's different from a few versions ago :)

Suggestion - make the automated turrets only available by trade, but the M2 (or a weaker version of it) buildable from the outset. I don't like the temptation of being able to spam auto turrets from day 1 ;)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 23, 2015, 03:45:26 AM
Ah, got it, that's different from a few versions ago :)

Suggestion - make the automated turrets only available by trade, but the M2 (or a weaker version of it) buildable from the outset. I don't like the temptation of being able to spam auto turrets from day 1 ;)

Interesting idea, but its a tricky balance problem. If I make the auto-turrets purchasable it opens up some potential problems regarding what you do when your colonists are all incapable of violence or have cataracts or something that prevents them from fighting. It also raises the question what to replace them with. The M2 is out of the question, even one is a major asset, a colony full of them would be just about invincible. I could make some improvised mounted gun but then the question is how powerful do I make it? If I make it on par with an assault rifle suddenly the survival rifle, pistols, etc. become obsolete but if I make it too weak its not worth using over regular guns.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on May 23, 2015, 07:10:26 AM
Interesting idea, but its a tricky balance problem.

Fair points. Maybe nerf the initial auto-turret a but add more upgrades for it? There are some interesting ones here: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11934.msg134491#msg134491

The reason I bring it up is because as it stands the auto-turrets are extremely lethal and cheap. Even with good pawns it makes too much sense to just build 1/2 on each side of the base and send pawns to bed when a raid comes - this works extremely well for the first year or so on CC Challenge.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 23, 2015, 01:27:32 PM
Interesting idea, but its a tricky balance problem.

Fair points. Maybe nerf the initial auto-turret a but add more upgrades for it? There are some interesting ones here: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11934.msg134491#msg134491

The reason I bring it up is because as it stands the auto-turrets are extremely lethal and cheap. Even with good pawns it makes too much sense to just build 1/2 on each side of the base and send pawns to bed when a raid comes - this works extremely well for the first year or so on CC Challenge.

That might be a good idea. I'm thinking move the turret production to the machining table (so you need to weight the need for defense vs productiveness) and make them portable so they're less of a sitting duck, increasing cost to compensate. For firepower something that can fend off the occasional pirate with a pistol/shiv early on and later upgrade it through research to something a bit below the current level around the time colonists could be expected to carry a decent number of assault rifles or better. Additionally I might add some kind of automatic sentry gun ala Aliens to the combat supplier as a late game upgrade/alternative to the improvised turrets.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Colonist51 on May 26, 2015, 10:33:52 AM
Not sure if it's caused by this mod, but why does the vast majority of enemies have melee weapons? They are like target practice for me. Makes the game way too easy.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Jan2607 on May 26, 2015, 03:59:18 PM
Since I started RimWorld today, I got a debug screen in the main menu. The same screen appears, if I use the "Replace all trade ships" feature.

Some of the trade ships have nothing to sell and no money so I can't buy anything.

I don't know, why this happens now. I have some other mods installed, but when I played yesterday there was nothing wrong with it.
What can I do?

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 26, 2015, 06:22:56 PM
Not sure if it's caused by this mod, but why does the vast majority of enemies have melee weapons? They are like target practice for me. Makes the game way too easy.

The mod shouldn't really affect the prevalence of melee weapons. I haven't played vanilla combat since A8 though so I don't really have any frame of reference for this one.

Since I started RimWorld today, I got a debug screen in the main menu. The same screen appears, if I use the "Replace all trade ships" feature.

Some of the trade ships have nothing to sell and no money so I can't buy anything.

I don't know, why this happens now. I have some other mods installed, but when I played yesterday there was nothing wrong with it.
What can I do?

The error wall of text seems like a dependency issue, did you make sure to install the latest version of the main module? The other error looks more like something another mod is causing.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Jan2607 on May 27, 2015, 07:02:07 AM
Okay, I deactivated the CR Defence mod. The CR mod was version 1.0, that's why it was incompatible with the CR defence mod.
Can I delete the old version and install the new one without starting a new colony?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 27, 2015, 07:39:50 AM
Can I delete the old version and install the new one without starting a new colony?

Should be fine.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Colonist51 on May 27, 2015, 09:40:12 AM
Not sure if it's caused by this mod, but why does the vast majority of enemies have melee weapons? They are like target practice for me. Makes the game way too easy.

The mod shouldn't really affect the prevalence of melee weapons. I haven't played vanilla combat since A8 though so I don't really have any frame of reference for this one.

Ok, I see. I got another question, is the core mod required to run Combat Realism Defence and Combat Realism for Project Armory (light)? Or can I run them as standalones? In this case would they have vanilla values?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 27, 2015, 10:03:22 AM
Not sure if it's caused by this mod, but why does the vast majority of enemies have melee weapons? They are like target practice for me. Makes the game way too easy.

The mod shouldn't really affect the prevalence of melee weapons. I haven't played vanilla combat since A8 though so I don't really have any frame of reference for this one.

Ok, I see. I got another question, is the core mod required to run Combat Realism Defence and Combat Realism for Project Armory (light)? Or can I run them as standalones? In this case would they have vanilla values?

Core module is required as is said in the installation instructions.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Colonist51 on May 27, 2015, 11:28:16 AM
Core module is required as is said in the installation instructions.

I must have missed that, my bad. Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: delraith on May 30, 2015, 01:20:53 AM
I think this is a problem. Miniguns, and thusly centipedes are near impossible to stop without crazy kill boxes.

The mod description states that walls are supposed to be near impervious to bullets. Yet one burst from a single centipede can blow through 2 lines of embrasure or 3 lines of stone walls and still one shot most any colonist (haven't tried someone in full power armor). Is this working as intended?

Very nice mod otherwise, I just have to reload before any centipedes come as they are rather unstoppable. Scythers seem to be perfectly difficult, same with other centipedes and raids. Miniguns are a little crazy though.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on May 30, 2015, 01:30:45 AM
Since walls are supposed to be impervious to bullets in this, why do centipedes absolutely obliterate everything with their gattling guns? Embrasures or walls do nothing to prevent a centipede from one shotting pretty much any colonist. Is this working as intended?

Could you be more specific? If the miniguns are actually destroying the walls it is not working as intended. If they are simply shooting the guy standing behind an embrasure it is normal. IIRC embrasures have a block chance of 95%, meaning out of the 600 bullets a minigun fires per burst, over 30 will still get through on average.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: AllenWL on May 30, 2015, 11:26:54 PM
I've seen the hit rate get as low as 1%, though that's still about 6 shots out of 600.

Something that should be noted is, if there is a mod that adds it's own walls/embrasures/etc, the structures added by the mod seem to be very weak to bullets.
For example, if you get combat realism and superior crafting, you get two walls. The combat realism wall can take a lot of punishment from bullets and other projectiles, but the superior crafting wall can easy be taken out by bullets or the fragments from a mortar shell.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Nimrod on May 31, 2015, 09:33:53 AM
I've seen the hit rate get as low as 1%, though that's still about 6 shots out of 600.

Something that should be noted is, if there is a mod that adds it's own walls/embrasures/etc, the structures added by the mod seem to be very weak to bullets.
For example, if you get combat realism and superior crafting, you get two walls. The combat realism wall can take a lot of punishment from bullets and other projectiles, but the superior crafting wall can easy be taken out by bullets or the fragments from a mortar shell.

Thats because of the different/not set <damageMultipliers> in the buildings defs, have a look for yourself ;)

cheers
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Facepunch on May 31, 2015, 09:36:37 PM
Im getting issues with the mod, Ive disabled all others, leaving only CR enabled, and it gives me a blackscreen and the console log.
SC of log below

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: delraith on May 31, 2015, 10:10:31 PM
I've seen the hit rate get as low as 1%, though that's still about 6 shots out of 600.

Something that should be noted is, if there is a mod that adds it's own walls/embrasures/etc, the structures added by the mod seem to be very weak to bullets.
For example, if you get combat realism and superior crafting, you get two walls. The combat realism wall can take a lot of punishment from bullets and other projectiles, but the superior crafting wall can easy be taken out by bullets or the fragments from a mortar shell.

Yep, that's what it is. You beat me to posting it =o

And apparently charge rifles go through centipedes like they are made of butter. Did not have any of those guns till now.

My favorite part of this mod has got to be the colonist damage changes. Organs being the most vulnerable makes loads of sense. Shrapnel and explosion changes are good too.

A few critiques:
- I am not sure if this is a vanilla element or not, but a colonist having a shattered rib appears to be non-penalizing in any way.
- Shotguns are not AoE weapons in real life and really can't feasibly hit more than 1 human and do much of any damage. Your usual 12ga buckshot still has a spread of <1 foot when fired at 20 yards. Any buckshot fired at a range where spread is great enough to hit more than 1 person has already lost a lot of its force (it can have a hard time piercing clothing).
- Pistols seem kinda useless to me.
- A mob of mad squirrels is impossible to escape from. I am doubtful running from squirrels would be that hard irl.

I think I can see why Tynan set the initial values for most of his weapons, I find it a little more difficult to manage the increased range on most of the rifles; battlefields can be very large. It seems like the game's obstacles don't get properly accounted for at such ranges.

Don't let me fool you! I really enjoy the mod. :)

I would love to see a good way to integrate a mod like this one with advanced crafting.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 01, 2015, 03:48:33 AM
Im getting issues with the mod, Ive disabled all others, leaving only CR enabled, and it gives me a blackscreen and the console log.
SC of log below

You need to start a new colony for this mod to work.

A few critiques:
- I am not sure if this is a vanilla element or not, but a colonist having a shattered rib appears to be non-penalizing in any way.
- Shotguns are not AoE weapons in real life and really can't feasibly hit more than 1 human and do much of any damage. Your usual 12ga buckshot still has a spread of <1 foot when fired at 20 yards. Any buckshot fired at a range where spread is great enough to hit more than 1 person has already lost a lot of its force (it can have a hard time piercing clothing).
- Pistols seem kinda useless to me.
- A mob of mad squirrels is impossible to escape from. I am doubtful running from squirrels would be that hard irl.

- I think it causes some minor pain? But yeah, it's a vanilla thing.
- True, 00 does have some pretty tight patterns, but I think at 35m (which is where I set the shotgun max range) a 1m spread isn't too far out there and at that point you could feasibly hit a guy standing right next to the target. Regarding damage, individual pellets are already pretty weak. You need to be in close and hit with most of them for a one hit kill or double tap at long range which I think is reasonable as it is.
- Pistols do have their uses when you don't have anything better and the enemy charges you in melee. Later on their low weight makes them useful on that guy with two peg legs whom you don't want to weigh down with a machine gun. Sure, overall they're a niche weapon and not really competitive against assault rifles and the like but they're not really supposed to be either.
- I dunno, I've seen some pretty nasty squirrels back in my day. (In seriousness, that's just a vanilla thing, although having your shooter weighed down by heavy weapons might contribute.)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on June 01, 2015, 03:58:48 AM
Quote
I would love to see a good way to integrate a mod like this one with advanced crafting.

Just adding that I'd also love to see a compatibility patch with Superior Crafting in a future alpha - I guess the main issue would be tweaking structures?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: AllenWL on June 01, 2015, 04:47:15 AM
- Pistols seem kinda useless to me.
I find them very useful given to every one of my non-combatants. Since it's light and has nearly no penalty, it's a good weapon to give to my guys who never actually fight as a just-in-case thing.

Plus, it has a fine hitrate and firerate, and is pretty nice for close-range indoors combat or against mad animals.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 01, 2015, 11:23:19 AM
Quote
I would love to see a good way to integrate a mod like this one with advanced crafting.

Just adding that I'd also love to see a compatibility patch with Superior Crafting in a future alpha - I guess the main issue would be tweaking structures?

I was looking into that just before A10 hit. IIRC it was that SC modified and added lots of structures + some new turrets. I'm currently working on a project for a different game but once that is finished I might look into making some compatibility patches.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Facepunch on June 01, 2015, 07:49:12 PM
Right, so, at the risk of feeling even dumber than I already am after slipping up on the new colony thing,
I've installed CR Defense, and the buildings (Embrasures, trenches, etc.) are all showing up, but there's no turrets anywhere.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 02, 2015, 03:51:03 AM
Right, so, at the risk of feeling even dumber than I already am after slipping up on the new colony thing,
I've installed CR Defense, and the buildings (Embrasures, trenches, etc.) are all showing up, but there's no turrets anywhere.

As of the latest update, turrets are purchased through combat suppliers.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Facepunch on June 02, 2015, 01:27:22 PM
Ahh. Thanks.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: OwlPaste on June 03, 2015, 02:32:18 AM
Wow this took forever to register... Turns out I am not so bright... had to google the tv show question...


Aaaaaanywaaaaay. I hit this problem, got the combat merchant coming, so I attempt to communicate with them and get a blank prompt. I can dismiss it, communicate again and get another one. It seems not to affect the game except I cannot use the merchant. Anyone seen anything like that before? Any ideas? cheers!

Here is the screenshot
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2q7lb17izbl5b3w/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-03%20at%2007.35.19.png?dl=0

I am using the 3 CM realism mods (light armory), pawn state icon, edb interface and mod order loader. Tried to disable the CM turret mod, and causesda  crash, tried to disable edb interface and it made no difference.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 03, 2015, 10:11:50 AM
Wow this took forever to register... Turns out I am not so bright... had to google the tv show question...


Aaaaaanywaaaaay. I hit this problem, got the combat merchant coming, so I attempt to communicate with them and get a blank prompt. I can dismiss it, communicate again and get another one. It seems not to affect the game except I cannot use the merchant. Anyone seen anything like that before? Any ideas? cheers!

Here is the screenshot
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2q7lb17izbl5b3w/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-03%20at%2007.35.19.png?dl=0

I am using the 3 CM realism mods (light armory), pawn state icon, edb interface and mod order loader. Tried to disable the CM turret mod, and causesda  crash, tried to disable edb interface and it made no difference.

That's really weird, I've been running all those mods myself with no issues. Is it just this one particular trader or every combat supplier? Also, are there any warnings in the log (to open it you need dev mode enabled in the game options)?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: OwlPaste on June 03, 2015, 01:51:48 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ekd3dk8b5ccp6a2/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-03%20at%2018.49.06.png?dl=0

Looks like something is not initialised, this is the second trader I contacted, first one was exotic trader that was just fine. I haven't really played from this point because I wanted to buy some guns - report a bug xD

If you want me to take a look at something specific, let me know what and I can take a peek...

Edit:
Yes can confirm other sellers are not affected, just the combat one.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 03, 2015, 02:49:34 PM
By other traders I mean other combat suppliers. It might be helpful if you could go into the debug action menu and use the "Replace traders" option to spawn 5 new traders, then see if those other combat suppliers work.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: OwlPaste on June 04, 2015, 08:39:03 AM
Mmm yep, tried that and could not reproduce the error again, the other combat traders seemed to work just fine too... I am now thinking this one must have had something truly magical on it!
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: skyarkhangel on June 05, 2015, 02:27:12 PM
thank you for an amazing mod  ::) fragments system really makes gameplay much better!
it would be nice to improve the texture of the fragments :)
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 06, 2015, 03:12:13 AM
it would be nice to improve the texture of the fragments :)

I think they're in line with vanilla bullet textures and besides, how often do you pause and look at them anyway?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Lolencolony09 on June 07, 2015, 05:33:51 PM
It keeps saying "Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.Projectile_ExplosiveFrag"
 :-\
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: jal21 on June 07, 2015, 09:48:05 PM
i love this mod i have had a lot of fun setting up ambushes while the riders are marching up to my door and sprang them with some grenades and they all diapers into a cloud of red and guts. But I wish that the enemy would be a bit smarter but that is on rimwolds felt not yours like they get the idea that my door would look cooler on fire and for get to kill the 4 men that have their guns raining bullet down on them but beside that this is an amusing mod and I would like to help in any way that I can to make this better
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: ( Tchey ) on June 14, 2015, 06:39:32 PM
The plans for advanced crafting, and alpha 11, are still plans, or not anymore ?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 14, 2015, 07:27:25 PM
The plans for advanced crafting, and alpha 11, are still plans, or not anymore ?

I've been getting kinda burned out on Rimworld so updating to A11 might take a while if it happens at all.
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on June 14, 2015, 09:17:58 PM
I'm a big fan of this mod, but understand your POV. I'm also finding it wearing a bit thin - will probably duck out for a few alphas.

A unfortunate part of regular alpha updates is it requires such dedication from modders just to maintain existing mods. Not criticizing Tynan at all, just noting that for the most time intensive mods it probably makes more sense to wait until final release...
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: PoppiesMan on June 18, 2015, 08:17:02 AM
i have a big problem: i have the mod order, i put combat realism and C.R. defence. my order was: core, C.R, C.R.D and other mods, but when i start a game, i have the black screen, that means that i have a missing core. But when i had installed C.R. project army(light) the mods worked but the defence not. what should i do?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 18, 2015, 09:55:33 AM
i have a big problem: i have the mod order, i put combat realism and C.R. defence. my order was: core, C.R, C.R.D and other mods, but when i start a game, i have the black screen, that means that i have a missing core. But when i had installed C.R. project army(light) the mods worked but the defence not. what should i do?

Are you trying to run this on Alpha 11?
Title: Re: [MOD] (Alpha 10) Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: skyarkhangel on June 22, 2015, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: NoImageAvailable link=topic=9759.msg142247#msg142247
Are you trying to run this on Alpha 11?

Needs in update :-[
I would enough at least, just  combatRealism.dll update :)
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: rsof69 on June 23, 2015, 02:07:06 AM
I need this we all need this pls update :)
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: DizzyCrash on June 26, 2015, 08:31:26 PM
Combat Realism
<SNIP>
Does this work for version A11? Cause I saw it included in some A11 mod combination packs.

Do not quote half a side of irrelevant stuff.
You are warned.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 27, 2015, 04:38:42 AM
1) Don't quote the OP, it completely breaks the flow of the thread if you have such a humongous quote
2) No, I haven't updated this to A11. Whatever modpacks include it must be using their own ported versions.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: DizzyCrash on June 27, 2015, 12:00:48 PM
1) Don't quote the OP, it completely breaks the flow of the thread if you have such a humongous quote
2) No, I haven't updated this to A11. Whatever modpacks include it must be using their own ported versions.
Why not jut tell somebody else how to update it if you dont want to?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on June 27, 2015, 01:48:18 PM
I actually know already what needs updating: some stuff got renamed but nothing major, in fact I already did all of it. The only relevant change is in collision detection. Since A11 bullets no longer phase through solid objects so my Utilities.determineImpactPosition method is obsolete as vanilla uses a more optimized approach with Projectile.tick(). Problem is it only calculates collision with pawns and walls and I need it to account for cover objects too, so the function must be modified in a new class and the change proliferated throughout the XML files. The calculations for cover collision are based on a formula that simulates a ballistic trajectory (the further a bullet is past the halfway point, the lower its trajectory, thus the more likely it is to hit ground obstructions). Furthermore, it is hardcoded to only calculate collisions halfway to the target and fragment projectiles should always detect collision so functionality for varying minimum collision ranges must be added. I think there might have been some changes to the Verb code so that would need updating as well but I'm not sure right now.

Beyond that all you have to do is update all the XML files to the new format and you're looking at something like 2-3 hours of work. I planned out most of it and actually started on some of the easier stuff but then figured I'm kinda burned out on Rimworld and barely anyone posts in this thread so it's not worth the effort. I'm appending the source code that has all the functions properly renamed, if you or anyone else wants to have a shot at it but frankly, I doubt anyone will pick this up.

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Beagle on June 27, 2015, 06:15:16 PM
Thanks for your work on the mod. On one hand Combat Realism has been my Rimworld way of life since discovering it but on the other I understand how frustrating it would be to have to update it for every new alpha that comes out.

Until now I've just been one of the people who've enjoyed your mod without posting any thanks. So thank you! The combat is important for me in Rimworld and this mod makes it much more interesting than vanilla, at least in my opinion. Regardless of whether you take a (permanent or otherwise) break from working on it, thanks for everything you've already done.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NemesisN on June 28, 2015, 11:57:58 AM
it does not work with Alpha 11

when I enable the main Combat Realism in Mod option the game brakes...can you update this ?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NemesisN on June 28, 2015, 05:27:55 PM
please update this...there are people wanting this to be updated....don't just abandon your work like that
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Headshotkill on June 30, 2015, 03:30:20 AM
Hey, this mod looks awesome!

It's a shame the only time I come across it it seems to be abandoned or at least suspended for the while, same with PA.
Anyway, if you do decide to pick it back up I'll make sure to give some solid feedback and some motivation! :D
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: MikeSikey on July 08, 2015, 12:36:21 PM
This was one of the first mods I ever installed & changed my rimworld experience since day 1.

Take all the time that you need updating it but know that you have a core group of fans who love your work OP
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Valarsul on July 30, 2015, 08:53:49 PM
I updated the .xml files for whatever that's worth...

It's still unplayable because of the outdated .dll file (or as far as I know).

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: M0DFAN1000 on July 31, 2015, 01:07:47 PM
Can this mod be used in the current version of RimWorld?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Valarsul on July 31, 2015, 04:04:47 PM
Unfortunately no  :( As stated by Image there are complications with the new bullet systems and one of his (or her?  :-\) their utilities. I just did the dumb labor of updating all the xml files, but I don't know C# worth a darn to even consider trying to work on it.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on August 02, 2015, 08:45:05 AM
Unfortunately no  :( As stated by Image there are complications with the new bullet systems and one of his (or her?  :-\) their utilities. I just did the dumb labor of updating all the xml files, but I don't know C# worth a darn to even consider trying to work on it.
I wish tynan put this in to the main game, That would be super cool
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Khaosius789 on August 19, 2015, 10:20:54 PM
Please update, Image. :(
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on August 20, 2015, 05:05:57 AM
Just seconding that I'd love to see an update - perhaps with A12, which will be stable for 6+ months?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 20, 2015, 05:56:01 AM
As a matter of fact, I did plan for an A12 update.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on August 22, 2015, 12:05:22 AM
As a matter of fact, I did plan for an A12 update.
Really?!?!?!? YAY!!!! I dont know if anyone else is as excited as i am!!!!????
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Nopkar on August 22, 2015, 02:10:19 AM
sampling the vanilla gameplay for A12 but excited about getting my REAL combat on. Ma Deuce's all day erey day
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Alistaire on August 22, 2015, 06:19:06 PM
Suggestion from a convo in the RimWorldMod chat;

[00:12] cb-elite: I like to give some of the weapons in my mod 2 verbs.
[00:12] cb-elite: For example: one melee verb and one shoot verb
[00:13] cb-elite: Just was thinking that it would be nice to be able to quickly decide which to use when playing
[00:14] alistaire: don't think it works?
[00:14] cb-elite: Oh it does
[00:15] cb-elite: A weapon with a melee and a shoot verb will perform both functions at their respective ranges
[00:15] cb-elite: I just have to right-click "melee" if I want to use the weapon to melee right now :confused:
[00:16] z0mbie: something like a minigun or a pistol wouldn't do melee but a shotgun or rifle would

Because CombatRealism is the goto mod for incompatibility would you consider adding this with the A12 release?

EDIT: Further convo:

[00:19] cb-elite: <verbs>
     <li>
       <verbClass>Verb_Shoot</verbClass>
       <hasStandardCommand>true</hasStandardCommand>
       <projectileDef>Bullet_BruteShot</projectileDef>
        <forcedMissRadius>4</forcedMissRadius>
       <warmupTicks>200</warmupTicks>
       <range>30</range>
       <burstShotCount>3</burstShotCount>
       <ticksBetweenBurstShots>20</ticksBetweenBurstShots>
       <soundCast>BruteShotFire</soundCast>
        <soundCastTail>GunTail_Heavy</soundCastTail>
        <muzzleFlashScale>9</muzzleFlashScale>
     </li>
      <li>
       <verbClass>Verb_MeleeAttack</verbClass>
       <meleeDamageBaseAmount>25</meleeDamageBaseAmount>
       <meleeDamageDef>Cut</meleeDamageDef>
     </li>
   </verbs>
[00:20] alistaire: Jesus that works?
[00:20] z0mbie: ah yeah, just add two tags
[00:20] cb-elite: Weapon need balancing, but it works
[00:20] z0mbie: wow that's funny
[00:20] alistaire: That's so awesome
[00:20] cb-elite: It's literally that simple lol
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 23, 2015, 06:18:47 AM
Because CombatRealism is the goto mod for incompatibility would you consider adding this with the A12 release?

Not sure what you're requesting here, some functionality beyond what vanilla offers?

Edit: Also, there is a mod chat?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: CB elite on August 23, 2015, 06:42:08 AM
Because CombatRealism is the goto mod for incompatibility would you consider adding this with the A12 release?

Not sure what you're requesting here, some functionality beyond what vanilla offers?

Edit: Also, there is a mod chat?

There was a lot more to the conversation, but this is basically just letting you know that you can add a lot of functionality to vanilla guns (which are very realistic) if you so desire, by giving certain weapons two verbs:

- Spears can be used in melee combat forever, and then thrown as a last resort (possibly destroyed after one use)
- Ranged weapons can be used as blunt melee weapons when an enemy gets close enough (hitting someone with the butt of your gun, for example)
- Anything else you might think of that involves one melee verb and one shoot verb

Giving a weapon two different shooting verbs doesn't work very well for whatever reason, so just keep that in mind...

And yeah! Feel free to join us on Slack :)

 Just go here to get started  (http://rimworldmod-slackin.herokuapp.com/)
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 23, 2015, 09:17:49 AM
There was a lot more to the conversation, but this is basically just letting you know that you can add a lot of functionality to vanilla guns (which are very realistic) if you so desire, by giving certain weapons two verbs:

- Spears can be used in melee combat forever, and then thrown as a last resort (possibly destroyed after one use)
- Ranged weapons can be used as blunt melee weapons when an enemy gets close enough (hitting someone with the butt of your gun, for example)
- Anything else you might think of that involves one melee verb and one shoot verb

Giving a weapon two different shooting verbs doesn't work very well for whatever reason, so just keep that in mind...

And yeah! Feel free to join us on Slack :)

 Just go here to get started  (http://rimworldmod-slackin.herokuapp.com/)

Ah, well that could be interesting. Though now I really want to figure out a way to give multiple shooting verbs to guns, suppressive fire anyone?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NihilRex on August 23, 2015, 12:37:21 PM
There was a lot more to the conversation, but this is basically just letting you know that you can add a lot of functionality to vanilla guns (which are very realistic) if you so desire, by giving certain weapons two verbs:

- Spears can be used in melee combat forever, and then thrown as a last resort (possibly destroyed after one use)
- Ranged weapons can be used as blunt melee weapons when an enemy gets close enough (hitting someone with the butt of your gun, for example)
- Anything else you might think of that involves one melee verb and one shoot verb

Giving a weapon two different shooting verbs doesn't work very well for whatever reason, so just keep that in mind...

And yeah! Feel free to join us on Slack :)

 Just go here to get started  (http://rimworldmod-slackin.herokuapp.com/)

Ah, well that could be interesting. Though now I really want to figure out a way to give multiple shooting verbs to guns, suppressive fire anyone?

Forget that, what about Time On Target for mortars\howitzers?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 23, 2015, 12:42:33 PM
Forget that, what about Time On Target for mortars\howitzers?

Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Thomasio on August 27, 2015, 03:39:05 PM
what about alpha 12 ?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Ninefinger on August 27, 2015, 03:58:10 PM
what about alpha 12 ?

He is working on it, you can see the progress here https://github.com/RimWorldMod
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 27, 2015, 04:51:05 PM
what about alpha 12 ?

Alistaire and I are putting the finishing touches on an experimental new aim system. We basically rewrote the entire thing from scratch, pawns now actually have to lead targets, estimate range, bullet height is being tracked to determine cover impact, guns have recoil and probably some more stuff I forgot about are coming to the A12 update. We still need to iron out some kinks but we're on track for a weekend release.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: Ninefinger on August 27, 2015, 05:01:37 PM
what about alpha 12 ?

Alistaire and I are putting the finishing touches on an experimental new aim system. We basically rewrote the entire thing from scratch, pawns now actually have to lead targets, estimate range, bullet height is being tracked to determine cover impact, guns have recoil and probably some more stuff I forgot about are coming to the A12 update. We still need to iron out some kinks but we're on track for a weekend release.

Wow that sounds amazing! Great work you guys!
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: akiceabear on August 27, 2015, 07:11:36 PM
So excited to play this!
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 31, 2015, 11:35:26 AM
Quick progress update, bugfixing took longer than expected but all the functionality is there and just needs some last minute tweaks. Here's a quick preview illustrating some of the new functionality:

Vanilla: magic autohits, if RNG decides you got hit then you got hit, reality doesn't matter
(http://i.imgur.com/XRGYgwG.gif)

New aiming system: pawns have to actively lead a target, how well they do depends on their skill, target is only hit if bullet actually collides
(http://i.imgur.com/Rbm2ZUp.gif)
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: rsof69 on August 31, 2015, 12:03:47 PM
Yey  ;D awsome do we have an eta ?
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NihilRex on August 31, 2015, 12:43:24 PM
Forget that, what about Time On Target for mortars\howitzers?

Can you elaborate?

With multiple shooting verbs, you could simulate doing a ToT barrage with mortars\howitzers.  They take longer to set up, but drop several rounds in a tight cluster.  It is like having multiple guns on one target.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on August 31, 2015, 01:13:41 PM
Yey  ;D awsome do we have an eta ?

I'm hoping to release in the next 1-2 days, but then you never know with these things. Sometimes you're just about done and then you realize one of your methods has a major logic flaw and needs to be completely rewritten.

With multiple shooting verbs, you could simulate doing a ToT barrage with mortars\howitzers.  They take longer to set up, but drop several rounds in a tight cluster.  It is like having multiple guns on one target.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI

Okay, I can see what you mean. The problem right now is such a mechanic doesn't serve any purpose ingame and would be purely aesthetic (and drop your framerate a whole lot more). Same thing with say, giving a machine gun burst and suppression mode.

Right now I'm working on finishing the new aiming system, after that I want to take a shot at new armor mechanics. After that I'd like to look into improved pawn AI and one of the things I had in mind was make them panic or go prone if they have too much incoming fire. Once such mechanics are in place I'll get on implementing different firing modes because right now they just don't make sense from a gameplay perspective.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: NuclearStudent on August 31, 2015, 01:18:45 PM
My body is so ready for this new system. I can't believe you guys managed to program something so awesome!
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: notfood on September 01, 2015, 06:05:33 PM
Can't wait. Dying to try it.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: zenfur on September 01, 2015, 07:11:07 PM
Can the bullets still miss even when they are on the right track to collide? I noticed that in your presentation all bullets hit the target, even when he was downed.
Title: Re: [A10] Combat Realism v.1.2.4 (12.05.15) Misc balance
Post by: generalcrusher on September 01, 2015, 07:12:37 PM
I am really glad that this mod is not abandoned. I hate when my colonists get shot around corners and I cant wait to try the new version out!   :D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 02, 2015, 12:57:03 PM
Released 1.3.0
New aiming system released. Keep in mind that I wasn't able to fix all the issues or do much balancing so far, so consider this an open Beta. Should you experience weird behaviour (slowdowns, bullets hitting things behind the shooter, etc.) please report it. Should you have suggestions regarding balance and weapon behaviour, feel free to post them. Your feedback helps ensure this mod is the best it can be.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: akiceabear on September 02, 2015, 06:39:14 PM
Awesome! Will be giving this a try very soon!

Once the kinks are worked out a RimFire patch would also be amazing :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: rsof69 on September 02, 2015, 08:10:34 PM
We want combat realism defence
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: CthulhuPakabol on September 02, 2015, 10:35:39 PM
Made an account just to express my appreciation for your work. Heartily looking forward to a Rimfire compatibility patch. Thanks so much!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: mocarice on September 02, 2015, 10:37:31 PM
coooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
thx to update
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: akiceabear on September 03, 2015, 01:50:16 AM
Just put a few hours into it - for the most part a great experience. A few comments:
* It seems like pawns can't peek out and shoot around corners like they used to - is this deliberate?
* When hunting with a sniper rifle I've had a pawn go in for the kill (1 cell away) and shoot himself to death! That seems a bit silly to me.

Besides those two bugs enjoying it hugely!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.0 (02.09.15) Aiming Overhaul
Post by: kellyboi on September 03, 2015, 04:02:35 AM
Found a bug. Pawns don't seem to want to shoot at crashed ancient ship parts.
Pawns can still shoot around corners, but the angle seem much smaller now.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 03, 2015, 07:20:24 AM
Thanks for the bug reports guys, that stuff should all be fixed now. Defence pack and Rimfire patch are coming once I get some playtesting done and finish balancing the vanilla guns.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: old_sinh on September 03, 2015, 07:30:38 AM
Hey,
Mod system work with all weapons or only vanilla?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: akiceabear on September 03, 2015, 07:38:42 AM
Thanks, great NIA! Again, one of my favorite mods that I really, really missed during A11.

A suggestion - shooting skill becomes incredibly important with this mod within a few seasons. It would be nice to have a shoot-range type of object to train on as part of the mod - Abrexus had a nice version previously as part of Superior Crafting which even allow auto-scheduling of practice for selected pawns. Balancing is critical, of course (perhaps it should take years to get a pawn from 1 to 20 just via the range), but I would like to see something like that eventually.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 03, 2015, 07:44:43 AM
I'll see if I can get a decent shooting range, IIRC there was another mod out there that disappeared at some point I think?

Hey,
Mod system work with all weapons or only vanilla?

Only vanilla, mod added weapons need a patch.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: AllenWL on September 03, 2015, 08:05:38 AM
That new aiming system is awesome.

Say, does this mean if we get a bunch of sandbags in a rows one after another, we can send small animals at the enemy with very little chance of them getting hit?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: akiceabear on September 03, 2015, 08:08:14 AM
Good reminder NIA - I did a search and found this one by ItchyFlea (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10623.msg105052#msg105052), which is already updated for A12. I'll give it a try in my next game with CombatRealism!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: ultimatron14 on September 03, 2015, 12:05:41 PM
Awesome mod, think it could be patched to be EPOE compatible? If so, awesome. If not, that's fine, mod is still great anyway.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: skullywag on September 03, 2015, 12:10:09 PM
NIA whats the steps for patching for us modders with weapons if we wanna support.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 03, 2015, 01:43:10 PM
Awesome mod, think it could be patched to be EPOE compatible? If so, awesome. If not, that's fine, mod is still great anyway.

As far as I remember EPOE is purely XML based, the only conflicts should be with regards to changed body part XML entries. All you'd have to do is merge the changes.

NIA whats the steps for patching for us modders with weapons if we wanna support.

All projectiles use Combat_Realism.BulletCR, ProjectileCR_Explosive, ProjectileCR_Frag as ThingClass (that last one needs its own ThingDef). Guns use Verb_ShootCR, Verb_ShootCRMortar, Verb_ShootCROneUse, Verb_ShootCRShotgun. They also need this Comp:

Code: [Select]
    <comps>
      <li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom">
        <compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass>
        <shotVariation>0.0</shotVariation>
        <shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation>
        <recoilOffsetX>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetX>
        <recoilOffsetY>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetY>
      </li>
    </comps>

- shotVariation is how much a shot will randomly deviate in degrees (think Minute of Angle/miliradians of a gun).
- shooterVariation is this effect (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ97GCtrsOI), with larger values giving wider patterns.
- recoilOffsetX and Y are the range in which recoil will randomly offset the gun horizontally and vertically. For example (0.0,1.0)(0.0,2.0) will cause recoil to go up and slightly to the right, (0.0,0.0)(-2.0,2.0) would only go up and down. The values are in degrees and will be multiplied by shot count within a burst.

AccuracyLong/Medium/Short now affect a gun's range estimation/leading/shotVariation respectively, with 0.5 being no bonuses or penalties, higher values giving bonuses and lower penalties. I'm currently using 0.85/0.85/0.5 for scoped weapons and 0.4/0.4/0.5 for ironsighted rifles, lower values for MGs and such. AccuracyShort should always be 0.5, its just there so quality and weapon health scale shotVariation, use the Comp to set the baseline.

AccuracyTouch currently does nothing, forcedMissRadius only does something with Verb_ShootCRMortar. Apart from that, nothing changed XML wise.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: knord on September 03, 2015, 02:14:56 PM
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! :D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: rsof69 on September 03, 2015, 03:46:02 PM
Combat Realism Defence
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: AllenWL on September 04, 2015, 03:16:00 AM
Awesome mod, think it could be patched to be EPOE compatible? If so, awesome. If not, that's fine, mod is still great anyway.

As far as I remember EPOE is purely XML based, the only conflicts should be with regards to changed body part XML entries. All you'd have to do is merge the changes.
How do you do that?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 04, 2015, 04:35:28 AM
Awesome mod, think it could be patched to be EPOE compatible? If so, awesome. If not, that's fine, mod is still great anyway.

As far as I remember EPOE is purely XML based, the only conflicts should be with regards to changed body part XML entries. All you'd have to do is merge the changes.
How do you do that?

Same as any other XML mod really, just open up the defs in Defs/BodyDefs and Defs/BodyPartDefs and merge the changes to coverage and health. I threw this one together quickly, let me know how it works: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjyn5j3k9honpxr/CombatRealism%20EPOE.rar?dl=0
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: Deepfield on September 04, 2015, 07:03:19 AM
Any reason this would make shooting though Stone Embrasures from Superior Crafting not possible?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 04, 2015, 07:36:38 AM
Any reason this would make shooting though Stone Embrasures from Superior Crafting not possible?

Initial shot height is pawnBodySize * 0.75, cover with fillPercentage of 0.75 or higher will be impossible to shoot past because your pawns can't reach that high.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: Goo Poni on September 04, 2015, 08:15:04 AM
Would that mean that a fill percentage of 0.70 is extremely defensible to stand behind? How does that part work? Is it still random chance for cover to take the hit instead of the pawn?


EDIT:

Ooh, and are mechanoid weapons tweaked the same? Charge Blaster/Lance, Incendiary Cannon and Minigun?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: Alistaire on September 04, 2015, 08:35:02 AM
Height is calculated every time the bullet could hit something. If the height is above bodySize, fillPercentage or bodySize+fillPercentage it won't
hit, otherwise it will.

Humans are 1.0 bodySize so a shooter will aim in about the middle to get the highest chance to hit. If the pawn is behind cover that cover height
is subtracted from bodySize for the further calculations so a pawn standing behind 0.7 cover shows only 0.3 of his height, making it harder for
unexperienced shooters to hit them.

When your pawn is downed their bodySize changes to 0.5 which makes them completely impossible to hit behind 0.7 cover, and otherwise
they're less likely to be hit (due to random shot variation and recoil, shooter skill etc). All in all it's a good thing to stand behind cover.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: Goo Poni on September 04, 2015, 08:41:15 AM
And I guess, if they're standing behind cover that is taller than where they shoot from, pawns will step out to shoot around the corner? Or will they just not shoot at that point? How does stepping out affect their cover?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 04, 2015, 08:52:22 AM
Ooh, and are mechanoid weapons tweaked the same? Charge Blaster/Lance, Incendiary Cannon and Minigun?

Everything that applies to regular guns should apply to Mechanoid weapons too.

When your pawn is downed their bodySize changes to 0.5 which makes them completely impossible to hit behind 0.7 cover, and otherwise
they're less likely to be hit (due to random shot variation and recoil, shooter skill etc). All in all it's a good thing to stand behind cover.

Small correction: right now pawns who are downed have 80% reduced bodySize if their regular bodySize is 1 or lower. Larger pawns use bodySize - 0.8 instead. And yeah, the only time RNG happens after a bullet leaves the barrel is tree collision

And I guess, if they're standing behind cover that is taller than where they shoot from, pawns will step out to shoot around the corner? Or will they just not shoot at that point? How does stepping out affect their cover?

Right now they just won't shoot. AI controlled pawns will try to find another position. Leaning in itself is unchanged from vanilla, it just means a portion of bullets will hit the wall instead of the pawn. Right now bullets have to pass within a certain distance from the pawn's drawn position (IIRC it's bodySize / 4 for humans and scythers, bodySize / 2 for everyone else) and leaning out means about half that range is concealed behind walls.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: mbos14 on September 04, 2015, 12:50:23 PM
Maybe a weird queistion but how can i be sure this mod is active on my worlds since i dont realy notice it?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: Goo Poni on September 04, 2015, 01:39:11 PM
Give a colonist a vanilla weapon, enlist them, enlist another colonist, take a potshot at second colonist with first. See if it looks more like Rimworld's RNG combat or more like the gifs posted by NIA earlier.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 04, 2015, 01:59:04 PM
Update
Released 1.3.2, see changelog for a list of changes. Also updated Defence Pack. Trenches had to go unfortunately but there are two new turrets to make up for it, courtesy of Shinzy and Alistaire respectively.

Maybe a weird queistion but how can i be sure this mod is active on my worlds since i dont realy notice it?

Check the survival rifle you start with. If its base accuracy is 50/50/40/40 its working.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.1 (03.09.15) Aiming Hotfix
Post by: mbos14 on September 04, 2015, 02:44:02 PM
Update
Released 1.3.2, see changelog for a list of changes. Also updated Defence Pack. Trenches had to go unfortunately but there are two new turrets to make up for it, courtesy of Shinzy and Alistaire respectively.

Maybe a weird queistion but how can i be sure this mod is active on my worlds since i dont realy notice it?

Check the survival rifle you start with. If its base accuracy is 50/50/40/40 its working.

yup it seems to work i just found it weird i was still losing a lot of leggs. but i do have a mod that add extra weapons in there as well
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 04, 2015, 11:08:22 PM
So i installed this and there is the epoe patch in the main download is that what i am looking for?
i just want the cr not the patch thing
(http://puu.sh/k0k9s/71fd43be7e.jpg)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: AllenWL on September 05, 2015, 02:49:51 AM
I keep getting a error log when I start the game with combat realism. I tried redownloading twice, and it doesn't help.
This is the log(pretty sure it is)
Code: [Select]
I:\CHL\Games\Rimworld\RimWorld914Win\RimWorld914Win_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll into Unity Child Domain
- Completed reload, in  0.100 seconds
<RI> Initializing input.

<RI> Input initialized.

desktop: 1920x1080 60Hz; virtual: 1920x1080 at 0,0
Platform assembly: I:\CHL\Games\Rimworld\RimWorld914Win\RimWorld914Win_Data\Managed\System.Core.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: I:\CHL\Games\Rimworld\RimWorld914Win\RimWorld914Win_Data\Managed\System.dll (this message is harmless)
RimWorld 0.12.914 rev777
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Platform assembly: I:\CHL\Games\Rimworld\RimWorld914Win\RimWorld914Win_Data\Managed\System.Xml.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: I:\CHL\Games\Rimworld\RimWorld914Win\RimWorld914Win_Data\Managed\System.Xml.Linq.dll (this message is harmless)
Non platform assembly: data-0A541820 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A541820.dll
MapComponentInjector: initializing for RTMadSkills.MapComponent_RTSkillIncreaser
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Non platform assembly: data-0A757010 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A757010.dll
Initialized the EdB Mod Order mod
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Non platform assembly: data-0A761020 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A761020.dll
Initialized the EdB Prepare Carefully mod
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Non platform assembly: data-0A68A6F0 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A68A6F0.dll
MapComponentInjector: initializing for RTFusebox.MapComponent_RTFusebox
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Non platform assembly: data-0A79B8D8 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A79B8D8.dll
Non platform assembly: data-0A7A1AC8 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A7A1AC8.dll
Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompTurretInit
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompTurretInit
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompTurretInit
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompTurretInit
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompTurretInit
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.BulletCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom from node <li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom"><compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass><shotVariation>0.04</shotVariation><shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation><recoilOffsetX>(-0.3,0.3)</recoilOffsetX><recoilOffsetY>(-0.3,0.3)</recoilOffsetY></li>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompAim
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shotVariation>0.04</shotVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetX>(-0.3,0.3)</recoilOffsetX> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetY>(-0.3,0.3)</recoilOffsetY> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.BulletCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom from node <li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom"><compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass><shotVariation>0.04</shotVariation><shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation><recoilOffsetX>(-0.1,0.1)</recoilOffsetX><recoilOffsetY>(-0.4,0.4)</recoilOffsetY></li>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompAim
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shotVariation>0.04</shotVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetX>(-0.1,0.1)</recoilOffsetX> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetY>(-0.4,0.4)</recoilOffsetY> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.BulletCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom from node <li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom"><compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass><shotVariation>0.08</shotVariation><shooterVariation>0.5</shooterVariation><recoilOffsetX>(-0.4,0.4)</recoilOffsetX><recoilOffsetY>(-0.4,0.4)</recoilOffsetY></li>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompAim
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shotVariation>0.08</shotVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shooterVariation>0.5</shooterVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetX>(-0.4,0.4)</recoilOffsetX> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetY>(-0.4,0.4)</recoilOffsetY> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.ThingDef_ProjectileFrag from node <ThingDef Class="Combat_Realism.ThingDef_ProjectileFrag" ParentName="BaseBullet"><category>Projectile</category><tickerType>Normal</tickerType><altitudeLayer>Projectile</altitudeLayer><thingClass>Combat_Realism.ProjectileCR_Frag</thingClass><label>120mm HEAT round</label><useHitPoints>False</useHitPoints><neverMultiSelect>True</neverMultiSelect><graphicData><shaderType>TransparentPostLight</shaderType><texPath>Things/Projectile/ShellBomb</texPath><graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass></graphicData><defName>Bullet_CannonTurret</defName><projectile><damageDef>Bomb</damageDef><damageAmountBase>250</damageAmountBase><speed>350</speed><explosionRadius>1.6</explosionRadius><soundExplode>Explosion</soundExplode></projectile><fragRange>13.0</fragRange><fragProjectileSmall>Fragment_HeatSmall</fragProjectileSmall><fragAmountSmall>65</fragAmountSmall><fragProjectileMedium>Fragment_HeatMedium</fragProjectileMedium><fragAmountMedium>80</fragAmountMedium><fragProjectileLarge>Fragment_HeatLarge</fragProjectileLarge><fragAmountLarge>30</fragAmountLarge></ThingDef>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.ProjectileCR_Frag
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragRange>13.0</fragRange> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragProjectileSmall>Fragment_HeatSmall</fragProjectileSmall> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragAmountSmall>65</fragAmountSmall> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragProjectileMedium>Fragment_HeatMedium</fragProjectileMedium> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragAmountMedium>80</fragAmountMedium> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragProjectileLarge>Fragment_HeatLarge</fragProjectileLarge> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragAmountLarge>30</fragAmountLarge> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom from node <li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom"><compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass><shotVariation>0.02</shotVariation><shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation><recoilOffsetX>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetX><recoilOffsetY>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetY></li>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompAim
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shotVariation>0.02</shotVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetX>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetX> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetY>(0.0,0.0)</recoilOffsetY> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.ThingDef_ProjectileFrag from node <ThingDef Class="Combat_Realism.ThingDef_ProjectileFrag" ParentName="BaseBullet"><category>Projectile</category><tickerType>Normal</tickerType><altitudeLayer>Projectile</altitudeLayer><thingClass>Combat_Realism.ProjectileCR_Frag</thingClass><label>30x29mm grenade</label><useHitPoints>False</useHitPoints><neverMultiSelect>True</neverMultiSelect><graphicData><shaderType>TransparentPostLight</shaderType><texPath>Things/Projectile/Bullet_Big</texPath><graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass></graphicData><defName>Projectile_30x29mmGrenade</defName><projectile><damageDef>Bomb</damageDef><damageAmountBase>70</damageAmountBase><flyOverhead>false</flyOverhead><speed>37</speed><explosionRadius>1</explosionRadius></projectile><fragRange>5.0</fragRange><fragProjectileSmall>Fragment_Grenade40mmFragSmall</fragProjectileSmall><fragAmountSmall>45</fragAmountSmall><fragProjectileMedium>Fragment_Grenade40mmFragMedium</fragProjectileMedium><fragAmountMedium>15</fragAmountMedium><fragProjectileLarge>Fragment_Grenade40mmFragLarge</fragProjectileLarge><fragAmountLarge>10</fragAmountLarge></ThingDef>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.ProjectileCR_Frag
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragRange>5.0</fragRange> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragProjectileSmall>Fragment_Grenade40mmFragSmall</fragProjectileSmall> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragAmountSmall>45</fragAmountSmall> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragProjectileMedium>Fragment_Grenade40mmFragMedium</fragProjectileMedium> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragAmountMedium>15</fragAmountMedium> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragProjectileLarge>Fragment_Grenade40mmFragLarge</fragProjectileLarge> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <fragAmountLarge>10</fragAmountLarge> doesn't correspond to any field in type ThingDef.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find type named Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom from node <li Class="Combat_Realism.CompPropertiesCustom"><compClass>Combat_Realism.CompAim</compClass><shotVariation>0.08</shotVariation><shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation><recoilOffsetX>(-0.6,0.6)</recoilOffsetX><recoilOffsetY>(-0.0,1.0)</recoilOffsetY></li>
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.CompAim
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shotVariation>0.08</shotVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <shooterVariation>0.0</shooterVariation> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetX>(-0.6,0.6)</recoilOffsetX> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

XML error: <recoilOffsetY>(-0.0,1.0)</recoilOffsetY> doesn't correspond to any field in type CompProperties.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Could not find a type named Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCR
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

Non platform assembly: data-0A7F2008 (this message is harmless)
Fallback handler could not load library I:/CHL/Games/Rimworld/RimWorld914Win/RimWorld914Win_Data/Mono/data-0A7F2008.dll
The strange thing is, the mod seems to be working more or less fine.
Should I ignore this, or what?
Edit: Ok, I think I found the problem. I put the CR-EPOE patch thing before both mods and now I don't get the thing popping up every time. Woops
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: Exe19 on September 05, 2015, 03:28:06 AM
Does it work with the current version of Rimfire? The compatibility patch on it's download locations is now pretty old.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 04:28:35 AM
Rimfire patch is coming soon, I want to finish playtesting and lock down the balance on the vanilla weapons first so I don't have to release a dozen updates.

So i installed this and there is the epoe patch in the main download is that what i am looking for?
i just want the cr not the patch thing

Turns out I put the wrong descriptions on the main download and EPOE patch, woops. You can download it again to get the fixed version.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: akiceabear on September 05, 2015, 04:49:16 AM
Is anyone else getting an unusual error where it isn't possible to select/pick up some dropped (and forbidden) items on the ground.

Example: there is a battle, and Pawn1 drops his pistol. Later when I try to select it to unforbid, instead clicking there selects something else (usually an animal) dozens of cells away. Very strange...

I have a few other mods running (EdB's, CCL, AutoSell, TargetPractise) so I'll try to play with just CR and CR Defense next game to see if they are fine on their own...
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 05:45:06 AM
Is anyone else getting an unusual error where it isn't possible to select/pick up some dropped (and forbidden) items on the ground.

Example: there is a battle, and Pawn1 drops his pistol. Later when I try to select it to unforbid, instead clicking there selects something else (usually an animal) dozens of cells away. Very strange...

I have a few other mods running (EdB's, CCL, AutoSell, TargetPractise) so I'll try to play with just CR and CR Defense next game to see if they are fine on their own...

I've seen this happen occasionally myself but I wasn't sure if its a vanilla bug, since I don't know what section of our new code could possibly mess with the UI.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: Commander Beanbag on September 05, 2015, 07:10:48 AM
Is anyone else getting an unusual error where it isn't possible to select/pick up some dropped (and forbidden) items on the ground.

Example: there is a battle, and Pawn1 drops his pistol. Later when I try to select it to unforbid, instead clicking there selects something else (usually an animal) dozens of cells away. Very strange...

I have a few other mods running (EdB's, CCL, AutoSell, TargetPractise) so I'll try to play with just CR and CR Defense next game to see if they are fine on their own...

I installed this recently, and after toying with it a bit I noticed areas where battles took place where flooded with ghost pawns. Almost every cell a raider army fought/died in had tens of the ghosts, and attempting any action in these cells would target the pawn (unless they died, in which nothing happens).
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 07:18:15 AM
Is anyone else getting an unusual error where it isn't possible to select/pick up some dropped (and forbidden) items on the ground.

Example: there is a battle, and Pawn1 drops his pistol. Later when I try to select it to unforbid, instead clicking there selects something else (usually an animal) dozens of cells away. Very strange...

I have a few other mods running (EdB's, CCL, AutoSell, TargetPractise) so I'll try to play with just CR and CR Defense next game to see if they are fine on their own...

I installed this recently, and after toying with it a bit I noticed areas where battles took place where flooded with ghost pawns. Almost every cell a raider army fought/died in had tens of the ghosts, and attempting any action in these cells would target the pawn (unless they died, in which nothing happens).

Wait, what? What exactly do you mean with "ghost pawns"? Also are you using any other mods?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: akiceabear on September 05, 2015, 08:17:44 AM
I've seen similar - for example, a boomalope is killed and explodes, burning the body out. Except the fire goes on forever, and if you mouse over the area the desc in the bottom left still says boomalope (although no body visible/selectable the body burns away).

I don't know if this is a CR issue or a A12 issue - in general I'm noticing many more of these types of bugs this alpha...

Edit: spelling
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 05, 2015, 08:24:30 AM
Okay short is shooting at the deer at the top right hand corner she is a lvl9 burning passion shooter and she is hitting where slick is standing well around that area. Why cant she hit them? i am confused
(http://puu.sh/k0E6w/93e0fc7615.jpg)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 08:40:50 AM
Okay short is shooting at the deer at the top right hand corner she is a lvl9 burning passion shooter and she is hitting where slick is standing well around that area. Why cant she hit them? i am confused

Is she hitting the trees?

I've seen similar - for example, a boomalope is killed and explodes, burning to body out. Except the fire goes on forever, and if you mouse over the area the desc in the bottom left still says boomalope (although no body visible/selectable after it burns out).

I don't know if this is a CR issue of a A12 issue - in general I'm noticing many more of these types of bugs this alpha...

Okay, now I can reproduce the bug. It doesn't seem to happen in Vanilla though. Strange considering I have no idea what could be causing such behaviour.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: akiceabear on September 05, 2015, 08:48:49 AM
Quote
Okay, now I can reproduce the bug. It doesn't seem to happen in Vanilla though. Strange considering I have no idea what could be causing such behaviour.

FYI - at the least I can clear out the "ghosts" by saving and reloading. Same deal when I have construction that I can't right click on/everyone ignores - saving and reloading seems to solve the issue.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 05, 2015, 12:42:56 PM
No she is just sniping the ground i looked at the trees health and they where full i cant hunt unless they get super close to the target
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.2 (04.09.15) Defence Pack Update
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 01:02:08 PM
No she is just sniping the ground i looked at the trees health and they where full i cant hunt unless they get super close to the target

Try dropping the DLL from the attachment into CombatRealism/Assemblies, see if the bug persists.

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 02:42:41 PM
Released 1.3.3
(http://i.imgur.com/iLXDz5A.png)
Thanks to Latta the mod now features a new reloading system. Guns now have limited magazines which need to be reloaded every now and then. Ammo itself is still infinite. Burst sizes have been reworked as a result as well. Reload button graphic provided by l2032.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: clayfang on September 05, 2015, 02:51:22 PM
For whatever reason, this mod completely disables all turrets. Even a fresh install with ONLY Combat Realism installed, I'm no longer able to build it. I'm not able to build any of the custom ones either with the defence pack enabled. Also, the DL link for the Project Armory compatability patch is broken. I also have the same issues with the 1.3.3 you just posted. Great mod! I just wish I could make it work :/
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 02:58:15 PM
For whatever reason, this mod completely disables all turrets. Even a fresh install with ONLY Combat Realism installed, I'm no longer able to build it. I'm not able to build any of the custom ones either with the defence pack enabled. Also, the DL link for the Project Armory compatability patch is broken. I also have the same issues with the 1.3.3 you just posted. Great mod! I just wish I could make it work :/

Improvised turrets have been moved to the machining table, you need to craft them. The new turrets are only available from traders. The Project Armory patch is for the A10 version, it won't get an update until PA itself does.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Mckee on September 05, 2015, 04:12:44 PM
Do drafted/undrafted colonists reload their weapons automatically, or do we have to manage that manually?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 05, 2015, 04:24:13 PM
Do drafted/undrafted colonists reload their weapons automatically, or do we have to manage that manually?

Automatically. Also, I forgot to mention, the new reloading system depends on the Community Core Library (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=14172.0), so get it if you haven't already.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Mckee on September 05, 2015, 05:08:15 PM
Ah right, trying to sort my mod order out now so I can run CR with the new rimfire compatibility patch. Any pointers on that one? Kinda struggling with it tbh.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Alistaire on September 05, 2015, 05:15:58 PM
Load order for CombatRealism + Rimfire:

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Mckee on September 05, 2015, 05:23:35 PM
Ace, thank you very much. Love both the mods :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: mehmet432 on September 05, 2015, 05:40:12 PM
İ can't seem to create a world or create a new colony while this mod is active.

İ don't have any problems with Combat Realism Defense but only the core makes problem !

Help ?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Mckee on September 05, 2015, 05:45:52 PM
I had that issue earlier - check you've got the community library pack installed too and that you use the mod order that got posted just above. I'd mucked mine up and it was stopping world gen.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Commander Beanbag on September 05, 2015, 07:49:58 PM
Progress!

The ghost pawns bug seems to occur when explosive fragments (and possibly regular explosions) kill or damage a pawn. I did not encounter the bug when using guns to kill pawns.
Tests were done using Core, CCL, EDB Mod Order and Combat Realism Core, in that order.

Screenshots (look at the cursor, and then the bottom left's cell content list):
1: http://i.imgur.com/8o77Ups.jpg
2: http://i.imgur.com/weMUPlm.jpg
3: http://i.imgur.com/diZUzTO.jpg

Mortars were used to produce the explosions; they impacted roughly where the corpses are.
Edit: Only 2 mortars were fired.
Edit 2: There are many more cells with ghosts, even outside the explosion's radius. There seems to be a pattern where further cells from the center of the explosions have less ghosts.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Adrramas on September 06, 2015, 06:44:21 AM
Minions can pick range and mele wepons??
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 06, 2015, 09:30:10 AM
Good news everyone, I tracked down the cause and laid those ghosts to rest. Update is coming soon, just need to do some balance adjustments for some new functionality.

Minions can pick range and mele wepons??

Not sure what your question is, can you speak clearer?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Goo Poni on September 06, 2015, 10:14:59 AM
One would assume he's asking if a pawn can pick up a gun and a melee implement and switch as needed whether automatically or on command.

I don't know if that's possible but pawns can carry things in their inventory so if they could carry their chosen sidearm in their inventory then maybe?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: akiceabear on September 06, 2015, 10:55:28 AM
NIA - great to hear the kinks are getting worked out!

Thoughts on the current mod: it's amazing! It's making combat so much more intense and tactical IMO. While the guns ultra stopping power and pawn squishiness would seemingly make things too imbalanced/easy, I actually find that I'm also losing a lot more pawns in the process, and the ones that are recoverable are often maimed in non-trivial ways. Seiges are absolutely terrifying for non-mountain bases. The reloading/clip size/fire rate/range differences between weapons also make that a really challenging and fun process to figure out, and so far seems to balance very well across weapon classes. All in all the mod forces much more careful thinking about how to handle combat, base design, etc etc etc - for me, making my choices more meaningful and the story richer as a result. Great job!

Thoughts on improvements: tribals seem a bit too squishy - almost a trivial non-threat once I have a couple decent pistols or shotguns and a few embrasures built. Perhaps this is by design - why should tribals topple a well armed colony. If not by design, I had a few thoughts that spring to mind:
Just some thoughts that popped up on my few plays so far - take them as you will :)

And thanks again for the mod - I'm loving it as is, so please take these only as musings/suggestions rather than criticisms, which they are not!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: kellyboi on September 06, 2015, 11:04:41 AM

  • Make them more numerous in headcount.
  • Make their weapons slightly higher accuracy, especially the melee ones - i.e. you better hope you gun them down before they get to you, because one club swing and you're out.

akiceabear, you could edit the pawnkinddef for tribals under core if you wish to increase headcount. Simply lower the combatpower of tribal pawns to increase the amount per raid.
As for melee accuracy... Well, you could modify NIA's melee weapon def if you want to haha...

I have a bad habit of dissecting and tweaking mod xmls  ;D ;D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 06, 2015, 11:46:47 AM
And thanks again for the mod - I'm loving it as is, so please take these only as musings/suggestions rather than criticisms, which they are not!

I'm always glad to get feedback be it positive or negative. Hearing someone else's thoughts on things can go a long way to identifying strengths and problem areas. Regarding tribals I found it depends a lot on what type of map you play. If you're on a boreal forest they have a good chance of closing in since the foliage will be blocking a lot of fire, on a desert you'd probably mow them down before they get anywhere close.

Later down the line I'd like to do an AI overhaul to both teach the AI some new combat tricks but also to make their goals more varied than "Kill! Maim! Burn!". Tribals in particular I'd like to move away from mindlessly charging into machine gun fire and be more about hit and run attacks on infrastructure. Depending on how fancy I'll get I'd like them to do things like ignite crop fields using torches or flaming arrows or blow up exposed generators, then make a run for it before the colonists can react. If the player has fortified positions they would try to avoid them by breaking down walls or building tunnels, or maybe just running around in the vicinity and ambushing lone pawns until you can clear them out.

My basic idea for the factions is that pirates want quick money and will use advanced weapons and tactics to take your valuables then make a run for it while tribals want you off their land but can't afford frontal assaults, so they will resort to lengthier methods that improve their own odds of survival to opportunistically attack weak points of your colony. Additionally I'd like to represent their status as natives of the land more by having them do things like hunt local wildlife, either regular one for food or during special events like trailing a Thrumbo. Basically I'd like them to be more of an ambient rather than immediately existential threat, something the player has to constantly expend resources to guard against rather than mow them down with copious amounts of firepower.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 06, 2015, 04:49:10 PM
Just started a new game with CR, so far I'm liking it.

One quick question though, would it be possible for hunters to walk closer to their prey? I.e. have the pawn make a decision about the range at which he has a good chance of hitting. My hunter (12 shooter) spent a full day shooting at a turtle without hitting, switched him to a pistol and he's bringing in meat like a madman.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: FMJ Penguin on September 06, 2015, 05:53:41 PM
Just started a new game with CR, so far I'm liking it.

One quick question though, would it be possible for hunters to walk closer to their prey? I.e. have the pawn make a decision about the range at which he has a good chance of hitting. My hunter (12 shooter) spent a full day shooting at a turtle without hitting, switched him to a pistol and he's bringing in meat like a madman.

Pretty sure this has to do with weapon max-ranges and their specific accuracy at those ranges which is pretty much all that matters when  your pawn auto hunts stuff. Hunters will stay at max range of the weapon they are using tell the prey is dropped and then go up close to finish the job. They don't take accuracy of the shot into account at all which is why there is so much fail in the AI's shooting in general(they honestly just don't have proper AI for how nuanced and complex the accuracy and los elements are in this game).

Always hated how accuracy and weapon max ranges worked in this game...... Nothing to do with this mod btw.  Although I supposed you could try to work around it by making all weapons 80+ accuracy minimum at their respective max ranges. Just using max ranges as the big "equalizer" if you will and forgoing any actual realism in the process. And there lies the age old debate with realism vs gameplay..........

But yes, the pistols are prolly all OP at hunting just because of how ranges and accuracy works. The only downside to pistols and hunting is you have less time to kill it or get away sense you'll be closer to the prey if and when it ever goes  hostile/manhunter on you.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 06, 2015, 06:15:29 PM
Just started a new game with CR, so far I'm liking it.

One quick question though, would it be possible for hunters to walk closer to their prey? I.e. have the pawn make a decision about the range at which he has a good chance of hitting. My hunter (12 shooter) spent a full day shooting at a turtle without hitting, switched him to a pistol and he's bringing in meat like a madman.

Its an issue with the hunting AI. Pawns will always try to get to max range, regardless of how terrible their accuracy is at that range, hence why close range weapons are best for hunting. If pawns with a sniper rifle would close to within 10 cells of their target before firing they would also be much more effective.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 07, 2015, 01:44:00 AM
Its an issue with the hunting AI. Pawns will always try to get to max range, regardless of how terrible their accuracy is at that range, hence why close range weapons are best for hunting. If pawns with a sniper rifle would close to within 10 cells of their target before firing they would also be much more effective.
Exactly. So is it possible to change 'always goes to max range' into 'always goes to max effective range'?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Alistaire on September 07, 2015, 01:58:07 AM
Its an issue with the hunting AI. Pawns will always try to get to max range, regardless of how terrible their accuracy is at that range, hence why close range weapons are best for hunting. If pawns with a sniper rifle would close to within 10 cells of their target before firing they would also be much more effective.
Exactly. So is it possible to change 'always goes to max range' into 'always goes to max effective range'?

Max range is max effective range. The only way to define max range would be to see how far the bullet goes when fired at a 45 degree angle which might be max range but isn't realistic.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 07, 2015, 03:00:04 AM
I feel like this is getting lost in the semantics, but possibly I'm just misunderstanding. When you say max effective range, you mean the theoretical maximum effective range as defined in the weapon defs, whereas what I mean is a a range where the hunting pawn has a good chance of actually hitting with the weapon he's holding. Correct?

What I mean is; instead of a pawn going to max (effective) range (as defined in the weapon def), would be it viable to implement a calculation of a theoretical (disregarding cover, foliage, etc.) range where it is likely that this particular pawn, shooting at this size target, has a chance to hit of, say 90%?

Anyway, I'ld look into it more myself, but I haven't looked at any CR code (which I imagine would be needed for this calculation), nor have I had the chance to take a proper look at the hunting jobdriver in the core. I have to work now (Damned!), but I'm planning to look at it more closely tonight.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 03:26:03 AM
Anyway, I'ld look into it more myself, but I haven't looked at any CR code (which I imagine would be needed for this calculation), nor have I had the chance to take a proper look at the hunting jobdriver in the core. I have to work now (Damned!), but I'm planning to look at it more closely tonight.

It is definitely on my to-do list to tweak the hunting AI, though I would probably leave it at "always close to within max range or 10 cells, whichever is lower" for simplicity, because calculating actual hit chances under the new aiming system would be fairly involved and mostly unnecessary.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 07, 2015, 03:49:48 AM
Thats actually a much simpler and more elegant solution, looking forward to your updates! :D

(I might actually still fiddle around with this myself in the mean time)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 04:01:19 AM
Thats actually a much simpler and more elegant solution, looking forward to your updates! :D

(I might actually still fiddle around with this myself in the mean time)

It'll probably be a while before I get around to it, so if you come up with something in the meantime, feel free to shoot me a message and I'll get it included in the main mod.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 07, 2015, 08:35:18 AM
Right, so, it seems Im having a bit of an issue with CR, I love this mod, would really like to use it. When I join in, I get a broken game, and a console full of error:
http://puu.sh/k2Y6V/1c9a86c420.png
Dunno what broke, but, again, I really love this mod, it's probably the best thing since beer and hookers.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: akiceabear on September 07, 2015, 09:16:14 AM
Facepunch - suggest you play with no mods except CR, then one by one load your other mods and start new games. Should tell you where the incompatibility is.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 09:36:26 AM
Right, so, it seems Im having a bit of an issue with CR, I love this mod, would really like to use it. When I join in, I get a broken game, and a console full of error:
http://puu.sh/k2Y6V/1c9a86c420.png
Dunno what broke, but, again, I really love this mod, it's probably the best thing since beer and hookers.

Did you load an existing colony? If so, try starting a new one and see if it works.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Commander Beanbag on September 07, 2015, 10:01:09 AM
Is it intentional for frag grenades to have no fragmentation component? Right now they only have the nerfed radius, and they seem fairly weak. I haven't used them much though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
Is it intentional for frag grenades to have no fragmentation component? Right now they only have the nerfed radius, and they seem fairly weak. I haven't used them much though.

It is not, will be fixed in the next version.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 07, 2015, 10:21:11 AM
Did you load an existing colony? If so, try starting a new one and see if it works.

Strangely, it doesn't do anything when I hit the "New Colony" button, forgot to mention that. Same way with making a new world. Console stays empty, too.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 10:43:08 AM
Did you load an existing colony? If so, try starting a new one and see if it works.

Strangely, it doesn't do anything when I hit the "New Colony" button, forgot to mention that. Same way with making a new world. Console stays empty, too.

Can you post a screenshot of your mod order?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 07, 2015, 11:11:30 AM
Ive tried it with all the mods active, and with just CR and CCL active, makes no difference.
http://puu.sh/k35gH/1f0b77a92d.jpg
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 11:37:54 AM
Ive tried it with all the mods active, and with just CR and CCL active, makes no difference.
http://puu.sh/k35gH/1f0b77a92d.jpg

What's with the two CCL installs? If one of those is the CCL Vanilla Tweaks try disabling it and see if it fixes things.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 07, 2015, 12:26:47 PM
What's with the two CCL installs? If one of those is the CCL Vanilla Tweaks try disabling it and see if it fixes things.

Well, that got the mod to work alone, but Im still getting issues when I use my other mods, I used the same mods not too long ago, with no issue.
http://puu.sh/k39Qi/255dccdbd2.png
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 01:14:37 PM
Well, that got the mod to work alone, but Im still getting issues when I use my other mods, I used the same mods not too long ago, with no issue.
http://puu.sh/k39Qi/255dccdbd2.png

Easiest way to find the offending mod would be to turn them on one after another until you find it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 07, 2015, 02:09:14 PM
So yeah, I've looked at it. And given up. The actual code is fairly simple, the call to TryFindCastPosition in Toils_Combat.GoToCastPosition just needs a slight modification when the pawn is hunting;

Code: [Select]
if (!CastPositionFinder.TryFindCastPosition(new CastPositionRequest
{
caster = toil.actor,
target = thing,
verb = curJob.verbToUse,
maxRangeFromTarget = (closeIfDowned && pawn != null && pawn.Downed) ? Mathf.Min(curJob.verbToUse.verbProps.range, (float)pawn.RaceProps.executionRange) : curJob.verbToUse.verbProps.range,
wantCoverFromTarget = false
}, out intVec))

The problem is getting there, which requires creating a new JobDriver_Hunt, which turns into a mess when decompiling the iterator block. I'm not proficient enough in C# to recover the source from this, so for now my hunters will have to use short range weapons :'(.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: pigman999999999 on September 07, 2015, 03:26:34 PM
one question do you need to make ammo and put it on your colonist if no then can you make a setting to turn that on and off (and a table and maybe researchs for dif ammo) just  a question and i will find out when on my next game.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: MarvinKosh on September 07, 2015, 03:43:10 PM
Nope, it's like XCOM at the moment, infinite reloads.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Mckee on September 07, 2015, 04:10:15 PM
Have had a bit of the issue with the grenade launcher from rimfire with CR enabled - when a pawn is equiped with it, they wont use it at all. I've tried getting them to manually target squares and pawns, I've tried the default combat auto-target, as well as enabling it for hunting - they wont use it in any circumstance. They also wont do anything else in combat, they default to 'standing' action, and wont interect with anything.

If it makes any difference, I bought the GL from a trader. Not seen one being carried by enemies, so not sure if theirs are working too.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: pigman999999999 on September 07, 2015, 04:34:39 PM
ok so i just tryed the mod out and now i cant make/load a world but i can fix it if i do turn off the mod prety sad about and i cant post the eror msg but it might have been my own doing i forgot to shut down rimworld when downloading it witch i dont think is what hapened i think it was becase i tryed to get into a pre-made game and black screen yea i alredy know i just wanted to get in and i screwed up.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Alistaire on September 07, 2015, 04:46:41 PM
Have had a bit of the issue with the grenade launcher from rimfire with CR enabled - when a pawn is equiped with it, they wont use it at all. I've tried getting them to manually target squares and pawns, I've tried the default combat auto-target, as well as enabling it for hunting - they wont use it in any circumstance. They also wont do anything else in combat, they default to 'standing' action, and wont interect with anything.

If it makes any difference, I bought the GL from a trader. Not seen one being carried by enemies, so not sure if theirs are working too.

This is because NIA made miscalculations in their velocity scaling. Distance is scaled to 1/5th of the real life distance, which wouldn't make velocities 1/5th their real life velocity as you might expect but sqrt(1/5)th or 1/sqrt(5)th of their real life velocity.

Because of this all, velocities don't match up with their max ranges because they're a factor 5 off (they assume 25 meters = 1 cell instead of 5 meters = 1 cell). I've discussed this problem with him but so far he doesn't seem to have changed it. This problem is found on every velocity in CombatRealism, but is only noticeable on low velocity weapons.

They won't use it because it's impossible for the grenades velocity to make the trajectory required to hit something at their max range or apparently even under max range.

It's a known bug and I hope NIA wants to fix it at some point.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 06:06:26 PM
This is because NIA made miscalculations in their velocity scaling. Distance is scaled to 1/5th of the real life distance, which wouldn't make velocities 1/5th their real life velocity as you might expect but sqrt(1/5)th or 1/sqrt(5)th of their real life velocity.

Because of this all, velocities don't match up with their max ranges because they're a factor 5 off (they assume 25 meters = 1 cell instead of 5 meters = 1 cell). I've discussed this problem with him but so far he doesn't seem to have changed it. This problem is found on every velocity in CombatRealism, but is only noticeable on low velocity weapons.

They won't use it because it's impossible for the grenades velocity to make the trajectory required to hit something at their max range or apparently even under max range.

It's a known bug and I hope NIA wants to fix it at some point.

Ahem, this is not a bug. The velocities are scaled properly. As it stands a bullet in the game will take the same time to reach maximum range as it would in real life. Scaling it by 1 / sqrt(5) would produce a vastly accelerated timescale and currently the combat is using a timescale of 1:1. The reason the projectile calculations are off is because a) some of the internal calculations in the public release are being fed values in the wrong units, this will be fixed in the upcoming version and b) the algorithm is very simplified and doesn't take into account projectile weight or aerodynamics.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Alistaire on September 07, 2015, 06:28:23 PM
Projectile weight and aerodynamics are part of the muzzle velocity, they don't change the trajectory. The velocities you're using are a sqrt(5) too small and they don't represent anything in this format. Changing the values being fed to the formula is nonsensical, you might as well put in the real life values in the def's max range and velocity tags and calculate their actual values in C#.



As you can see there's some discussion on this topic and I feel like NIA has no idea what he's talking about and he has probably the same feeling about me.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 07, 2015, 06:40:43 PM
As you can see there's some discussion on this topic and I feel like NIA has no idea what he's talking about and he has probably the same feeling about me.

Yes, and I'd very much appreciate this internal discussion staying internal. If you want to discuss this further we'll use the usual channels, this thread is not the place for this.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Mckee on September 07, 2015, 06:41:11 PM
*Ahem*

Forget I mentioned it :P
You've both done great work for this game, so yeah, no worries :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: exarkun17 on September 07, 2015, 06:46:06 PM
Does anyone else have the issue where you are unable to create a new world while this mod is activated? It seems like something is blocking the world map from loading. Even when I try to start a new game on a previously created map it can't access the world map to continue. I really want to use this mod but it just doesn't seem to work for me. Any ideas
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: whoishigh on September 07, 2015, 06:47:18 PM
Does anyone else have the issue where you are unable to create a new world while this mod is activated? It seems like something is blocking the world map from loading. Even when I try to start a new game on a previously created map it can't access the world map to continue. I really want to use this mod but it just doesn't seem to work for me. Any ideas

Solution from a couple pages earlier:

I had that issue earlier - check you've got the community library pack installed too and that you use the mod order that got posted just above. I'd mucked mine up and it was stopping world gen.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: exarkun17 on September 07, 2015, 06:47:48 PM
hahaha guess I should read more before I post looks like I'm not the only one
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: akiceabear on September 07, 2015, 07:25:35 PM
Also, make sure to completely quit and restart the game application after changing mods loaded and order.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NihilRex on September 07, 2015, 07:50:50 PM
NIA - I hope you got my response to your questions.  I'd have responded sooner, but I was at DragonCon.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Beagle on September 07, 2015, 09:18:17 PM
Thanks so much for continuing your development of this mod, and introducing new and exciting features to boot in these A12 updates! Mods like EdB's quality of life improvers go a long way to making the game feel better to play but for actual gameplay improvement, Combat Realism has to be my #1 for making Rimworld really feel great. So I'm way appreciative that this mod has continued development. Thank you!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: pigman999999999 on September 08, 2015, 07:17:11 AM
nope still doset work witch one do i download 1 2 3 or 4
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 08, 2015, 02:44:51 PM
NIA - I hope you got my response to your questions.  I'd have responded sooner, but I was at DragonCon.

Yeah, your answers will be very helpful for future balancing, always good to hear these things from an expert. Also, just as a heads up the next update is coming the next few days. I went on a break the last two days (working on CR for 2 weeks straight does take its toll) to play the game and work on a little side project (http://i.imgur.com/bRzflWv.png) but now its back to CR and after some last adjustments to the aiming system work on a new armor system will start.

On that note, if anyone has ideas for what a realistic armor system should look like, feel free to post them. I'm currently in the planning phase and open to any suggestions.

nope still doset work witch one do i download 1 2 3 or 4

For reference, this is what my own load order looks like:
(http://i.imgur.com/gkFK4zU.png)
If you have the vanilla tweaks from CCL try disabling them. If you still have problems please post a screenshot of your load order.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: pigman999999999 on September 08, 2015, 04:56:55 PM
okay i fixed it i just needed to redownload them with rimworld not on thanks for the help (:
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Beagle on September 09, 2015, 12:06:27 AM

On that note, if anyone has ideas for what a realistic armor system should look like, feel free to post them. I'm currently in the planning phase and open to any suggestions.


I'm not certain how the current armor system works apart from more armor = good, but perhaps something like:

Armor prevents a % of damage based on the type and quality, with heavier and better armor preventing a higher % of damage
Weapons have damage and penetration. Damage is a brute force beating against armor, has its value reduced by armor, but will eventually break through it with every bit of damage slowly degrading the wear and tear of the armor until it breaks. Penetration is how much armor that weapon will ignore; it doesn't degrade the armor quality any more than usual but simply allows the weapon to pierce the armor's protection more easily.

So a suit of power armor with let's say 90% damage reduction against projectiles would allow someone to take a lot of hits from low caliber weapons, but it's losing its durability the entire time it's getting pounded and after a few fights it'd need repair. However, something like an assault rifle, machinegun or sniper rifle would have more penetration and be able to pierce through some of that armor.

Additionally, if more complexity is needed, the lower the durability of the armor, the less damage reduction % it would grant. If this could be applied to Mechanoid hulls while they are alive, it would mean your SMG/Pistol colonists would do practically nothing to them at first but after a couple minutes of sustained gunfire would be reducing that armor a considerable amount.

Again I don't know how vanilla armor works but if it's not already like this, this seems like the style that has been tried and tested in a lot of different games, is fairly simple to understand and isn't needlessly complex while also remaining more or less realistic enough and making it easy to see the effects of better armor purchases.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: LustrousWolf on September 09, 2015, 12:29:49 PM
Question?: Is it possible to make the AI a little smarter in combat? Because factions will visit say in a siege, and they will just blindly walk past while getting shot at, missiles will land a few blocks from them missing them by like one square. It is only until one of them is hit that they will fight back.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 09, 2015, 09:11:43 PM
Sorry to be a pain, I'm probably missing something face-deskingly obvious, but, there's no turrets. I've completed all the research that has anything to do with turrets, and I took a peek at my security tab in dev mod (With god mode enabled), I've got the barbed wire, some IEDs, a deadfall trap, but no turrets.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Latta on September 09, 2015, 09:14:26 PM
Sorry to be a pain, I'm probably missing something face-deskingly obvious, but, there's no turrets. I've completed all the research that has anything to do with turrets, and I took a peek at my security tab in dev mod (With god mode enabled), I've got the barbed wire, some IEDs, a deadfall trap, but no turrets.

Check your machining table.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Commander Beanbag on September 10, 2015, 01:25:55 AM
Would you mind uploading the fix to the ghost pawns bug? I've been holding off starting a CR game until this was fixed.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: akiceabear on September 10, 2015, 03:09:17 AM
Would you mind uploading the fix to the ghost pawns bug? I've been holding off starting a CR game until this was fixed.

Ditto. Love this nod but found those bugs very problematic…
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 10, 2015, 07:17:12 AM
Check your machining table.

I'm talking about CR turrets, such as the M2
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 10, 2015, 08:08:43 AM
Update
Released 1.3.4, bunch of bugs got fixed, some changes to the mortar muzzle velocity which should make it more realistic. I also decided to increase projectile velocity for balancing reasons. Considering pawns have a base speed of 4.6 cells per second under the old model they were running around at over 60km/h. I therefore doubled projectile speed to bring lead distances more in line with what you would expect in the real world and to reduce the effect of pawns running away from particularly slow projectiles.

Would you mind uploading the fix to the ghost pawns bug? I've been holding off starting a CR game until this was fixed.

Ditto. Love this nod but found those bugs very problematic…

Sorry, didn't realize how much of an issue these bugs were for people. The problem was fixing the mortar to fire on high trajectories (45-85°) caused the time to impact to be way higher than it should be. For that reason I had to implement a new functionality to simulate different muzzle velocities for different target ranges as you would get from using different charges on a real mortar, hence the delay.

I have now officially reached what I like to call the uncanny valley of realism, where a simulation is just realistic enough that any bit of abstraction causes complete garbage results and can only be fixed by making the simulation more accurate. I am therefore caught in a self-perpetuating cycle of realism that will only stop after projectiles have drift and wind physics with the rotation of the planet accounted for and pressure effects from firing weapons can kill or permanently injure pawns.

Check your machining table.

I'm talking about CR turrets, such as the M2

Those can only be bought from combat suppliers. If you want to do a quick test you can enable dev mode, open the debug console and use the "Replace all traders" command to spawn a bunch of traders. They're not guaranteed to be stocking turrets but most suppliers should have at least one or two for sale.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 10, 2015, 09:05:22 AM
Update
Just uploaded a very small hotfix to fix a minor issue when firing mortars at specific ranges.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: akiceabear on September 10, 2015, 09:10:50 AM
Great! Will give this a try and send feedback probably by the end of the weekend.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: rsof69 on September 10, 2015, 09:13:19 AM
For some reason I dont see your turets

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: akiceabear on September 10, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
I don't think you can construct them, you have to craft them at the machining table.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.3 (05.09.15) Reloading
Post by: Facepunch on September 10, 2015, 06:32:11 PM
I have now officially reached what I like to call the uncanny valley of realism, where a simulation is just realistic enough that any bit of abstraction causes complete garbage results and can only be fixed by making the simulation more accurate. I am therefore caught in a self-perpetuating cycle of realism that will only stop after projectiles have drift and wind physics with the rotation of the planet accounted for and pressure effects from firing weapons can kill or permanently injure pawns.
Don't forget to account for the metals involved in making the shell, temperatures, the ground material, the possibility of premature detonation, the possibility of late detonation, the possibility of duds, etc.

Thanks for the help, tho. Half the people I see around most forums woulda told me to figure it out after my second question, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Kairo on September 10, 2015, 07:50:04 PM
Hi there  :)

is it me or centipedes are overpowered with that mod ?
Their heavy SMG seem very accurate with a very long range (more than my LMG). 2 of them killed 10 citizens in a second.
If that's normal then ok, got to find a better strategy next time.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 12, 2015, 01:21:51 PM
Hey for some reason i cant use stone embrasures. They are from skully my pawns can be shot when standing in my bunker but cant shoot out? Why is that?
http://puu.sh/k8Ovs/5af8de74a4.jpg (http://puu.sh/k8Ovs/5af8de74a4.jpg)
http://puu.sh/k8Oxs/451b65651f.jpg (http://puu.sh/k8Oxs/451b65651f.jpg)
I am lost, a little incite might help as to why this is
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 01:39:19 PM
Hi there  :)

is it me or centipedes are overpowered with that mod ?
Their heavy SMG seem very accurate with a very long range (more than my LMG). 2 of them killed 10 citizens in a second.
If that's normal then ok, got to find a better strategy next time.

Centipedes are intentionally beefed up a bit, but for the most part they're really not that dangerous as long as you don't try to fight them from half cover. Basically the whole trick is to bait an attack and as they warm up you break line of sight, while your other colonists plink away at them.

In an ideal future scenario they would actually spawn as tag teams with one Centipede and Scyther each moving in formation, Scyther using the Centipede as cover. As the Centipede pins your pawn in place with suppression the Scyther circles around for a flank, but we're not quite there yet unfortunately.

Hey for some reason i cant use stone embrasures. They are from skully my pawns can be shot when standing in my bunker but cant shoot out? Why is that?
http://puu.sh/k8Ovs/5af8de74a4.jpg (http://puu.sh/k8Ovs/5af8de74a4.jpg)
http://puu.sh/k8Oxs/451b65651f.jpg (http://puu.sh/k8Oxs/451b65651f.jpg)
I am lost, a little incite might help as to why this is

I'll have to put this in the OP at some point, embrasures from other mods are basically guaranteed to be incompatible. They're too high for your pawns to shoot through. If you want embrasures use the CR Defence Pack instead.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 12, 2015, 03:01:00 PM
I have it installed but where do i find them at?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Kulverstukass on September 12, 2015, 03:17:14 PM
Quote
I'll have to put this in the OP at some point
I would also ask to add note that "Enhanced Development, F/K/A Enhanced Defence Enhanced, F/K/A Jaxxa's Shields" are also useless with CR, except for "Personal Nano-shield" part, it works fine.

Bad english rant ahead

And centipedes will always be overpowered, or anyone with minigun, due to retarded interaction between projectile and cover.
As there is no actual cover, just buff-style magnet that redirects bullet into itself, IF bullet was calculated to LAND on pawn with buff *behind cover*. If bullet had missed in 'calculated' part of shot, but trajectory leads behind pawn, thus passes through tile with pawn, it would hit it, and with CR mechanics for more precise hits in such situation, it makes situation with minigun's bullet spread even worse, as much more bullets would be flying through tile with pawn, theoretically missing him, but also being calculated "to land somewhere behind pawn-behind-embrasure" passing through cover freely, thus hitting him.

I have it installed but where do i find them at?
Structures tab, as it's just "walls with holes"
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
Quote
I'll have to put this in the OP at some point
I would also ask to add note that "Enhanced Development, F/K/A Enhanced Defence Enhanced, F/K/A Jaxxa's Shields" are also useless with CR, except for "Personal Nano-shield" part, it works fine.

Which parts exactly do not work? As it is, any cover with fillPercent 0.75 or higher will be impossible to shoot through.

Quote
Bad english rant ahead

Most of that stuff is actually inapplicable with CR, bullet height and shot angle are tracked, there is no RNG involved in determining hit or miss like in vanilla. If a pawn is standing behind a rock chunk it has a height of 0.5 while the pawn has 1.0 and the minigun will be aiming at height 0.75. If the recoil makes it so that its height at impact is 0.5 or lower it will hit the chunk, if height is higher than 1.0 it will go above the pawn. There are no magic bullet magnets, the only problem is you're basically going up against this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYZmKMMSsY) so chances are more than a few bullets will hit into that range between 0.5 and 1.0.

Quote
Keep calm and become one with Russia, da?

Now I want to add a new raider faction called "polite people"
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Kulverstukass on September 12, 2015, 04:51:56 PM
Which parts exactly do not work?
All static shields, bullets just go through, regardless if there generated *field* or is it *wrapper* as SIF-shield provide.
There is nothing related to shield itself outside of .dll, can't say anything.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=15606.0

Most of that stuff is actually inapplicable with CR...
Looks like I've used not perfectly fitting word here, logic was *your mod and this thread relate to this mechanics*, not that CR cause this, surely :)
...bullet height and shot angle are tracked, there is no RNG involved in determining hit or miss like in vanilla. If a pawn is standing behind a rock chunk it has a height of 0.5 while the pawn has 1.0 and the minigun will be aiming at height 0.75. If the recoil makes it so that its height at impact is 0.5 or lower it will hit the chunk, if height is higher than 1.0 it will go above the pawn.
I've checked, to be sure, that your Embrasures = Walls in terms *altitudeLayer*, difference just in *fillPercent*, rendering 73% to *catch passing bullet*. Yet, even with .99 fillPercent game allow nice amount of bullets to pass through (saying from first appearance of embrasures for RW), and 2 layers of them doesn't make 2 checks with 99% percent to fail for bullets, even if old *to hit chance popup message* was saying, i've tried that and it didn't work at all, first (outside) layer receive damage ONLY in situation of complete miss by shooter, when bullet will fall on that tile anyway.
There are no magic bullet magnets
Just one step from embrasure - and there is no cover, yet building itself didn't disappeared, how would you call that then?
It's fine with small cover like chunks/sandbags, their height is small, but wall embrasure is BuildingTall...
Quote
Keep calm and become one with Russia, da?
Now I want to add a new raider faction called "polite people"
Gotta do a lot of work in a very complicated event, like *Spy revealed* from some other mod (TTM maybe it was?), but involving more than one colonist, that was poorly treated, and, after exile (or death, it's RW after all) of colony leader (gotta add that too i guess), group of pawns (that wasn't in starting group) gotta call themselves independent from main colony group, aaaaand here goes *raider faction called "polite people"*, that rush in and, well, works as peacekeeping unit, preventing player from resolving situation fast and bloody, until that group of separatists will be treated good or (with some timer visible, to not be surprised) they declare themselves independent and join that *raider faction called "polite people"*.  Brand new AI, so they would not leave map but settle somewhere near - would be too much awesome to ask, lol.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 05:20:29 PM
I've checked, to be sure, that your Embrasures = Walls in terms *altitudeLayer*, difference just in *fillPercent*, rendering 73% to *catch passing bullet*. Yet, even with .99 fillPercent game allow nice amount of bullets to pass through (saying from first appearance of embrasures for RW), and 2 layers of them doesn't make 2 checks with 99% percent to fail for bullets, even if old *to hit chance popup message* was saying, i've tried that and it didn't work at all, first (outside) layer receive damage ONLY in situation of complete miss by shooter, when bullet will fall on that tile anyway.

The old system had a lot of issues and exploits which is why it was replaced completely. You're really best off just forgetting it existed when considering the CR system because they are so different they're beyond comparison. Even comparisons with RTS games fall flat, the CR system is closer to what you have in ArmA than anything.

Quote
Just one step from embrasure - and there is no cover, yet building itself didn't disappeared, how would you call that then?
It's fine with small cover like chunks/sandbags, their height is small, but wall embrasure is BuildingTall...

That's actually something of a necessary oversight in the algorithm which detects viable shooting positions. It only takes into account cover directly in front of shooter and target because otherwise you'd get big performance dips from endgame raids with 100+ tribals (well, bigger than usual). It doesn't cause issues in CR except in fringe cases (squirrel one tile away from sandbags), only when you combine it with modded embrasures does it cause weirdness in combination with the minimum collision distance.

However, now that you mention it there is a potential exploit but in the opposite way, standing one tile away from cover would make attackers aim lower than they should and hit cover more often. I'll get that one fixed for the next version.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Kairo on September 12, 2015, 05:48:03 PM
Just to warn all of you that CR 1.3.4b and CCL 0.12.2 are not compatible.

wait a bit with older CCL 0.12.1.

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Kulverstukass on September 12, 2015, 06:12:15 PM
The old system had a lot of issues and exploits which is why it was replaced completely. You're really best off just forgetting it existed when considering the CR system because they are so different they're beyond comparison. Even comparisons with RTS games fall flat, the CR system is closer to what you have in ArmA than anything.
So, does *fillPercent* still means something? How determine effectiveness of cover-providing structures now?
As i've just checked, 2 layers of embrasures didn't stopped a bullet, from very close standing shooter, tho.
That's actually something of a necessary oversight in the algorithm which detects viable shooting positions. It only takes into account cover directly in front of shooter and target
In other words, i shouldn't relate to CTH in popup info, as it takes in account old, vanilla mechanics?
That tiny experiment mentioned above shown 7% to hit, obviously being wrong with all those bullets hit. :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 13, 2015, 05:20:54 AM
So, does *fillPercent* still means something? How determine effectiveness of cover-providing structures now?
As i've just checked, 2 layers of embrasures didn't stopped a bullet, from very close standing shooter, tho.

fillPercent determines an object's collision height. Think fillPercent 0.5 = half the height of a human. Regarding the amount of gunfire that gets through, I did some testing and it seems the recent changes to bullet velocity created a bit of a balance problem. I'll look into fixing it.

Quote
In other words, i shouldn't relate to CTH in popup info, as it takes in account old, vanilla mechanics?
That tiny experiment mentioned above shown 7% to hit, obviously being wrong with all those bullets hit. :)

There is a reason it is listed as a known issue in the OP, the tooltip is mostly worthless right now and due to technical limitations it is impossible to change it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: rsof69 on September 14, 2015, 08:50:11 AM
Well this just happened when I updated ccl

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: akiceabear on September 14, 2015, 08:53:03 AM
Elsewhere in this thread it mentions this is only compatible with a prior version (0.12.1) of CCL. I'm waiting to update CCL until CR can handle it - its my number one mod!

NIA - maybe it would be useful to mention which version of CCL this is tested against in the OP?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 14, 2015, 09:32:14 AM
Elsewhere in this thread it mentions this is only compatible with a prior version (0.12.1) of CCL. I'm waiting to update CCL until CR can handle it - its my number one mod!

NIA - maybe it would be useful to mention which version of CCL this is tested against in the OP?

From what I've been told a CCL update shouldn't break dependent mods unless something in the code used by the mod changed. Recompiling against the new version fixed it and I would have released an update already if my current internal build wasn't broken at the time. Expect an update later today though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: akiceabear on September 14, 2015, 09:51:08 AM
No rush! But thanks for updating this - hard to imagine playing on vanilla now!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Kairo on September 14, 2015, 01:07:48 PM
Elsewhere in this thread it mentions this is only compatible with a prior version (0.12.1) of CCL. I'm waiting to update CCL until CR can handle it - its my number one mod!

NIA - maybe it would be useful to mention which version of CCL this is tested against in the OP?

From what I've been told a CCL update shouldn't break dependent mods unless something in the code used by the mod changed. Recompiling against the new version fixed it and I would have released an update already if my current internal build wasn't broken at the time. Expect an update later today though.

Hi,

I tested it on Win 7 64 bits with Rimworld A12D (v.0.12.914) and with the following order :
1 - Core
2 - CCL 0.12.2
3 - CCL Vanilla Tweaks 0.12.2
4 - CR Core 1.3.4b

Many errors detected and can't create a new world/Colony.

With CCL 0.12.1, no errors.

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: Jan2607 on September 14, 2015, 03:16:05 PM
It works fine with CCL 0.12.1.

Did you change the accuracy?
I played with CR mod in Alpha 10 and I remember, that I had a high accuracy there. Every shot hit the pawn or next to the pawn. But now the shots mostly hit the dirt meters behind the enemy pawns (I've never seen that a shot was too short, they always hit behind the pawn).

But still nice work :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: Kairo on September 14, 2015, 04:26:49 PM
Thanks for the update  :)

CR 1.3.5 and CCL 0.12.2 work fine.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.4b (10.09.15) Ghost fix + Hotfix
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 14, 2015, 04:31:40 PM
Update

Important Note: When updating from older versions you must do a clean install, meaning you have to navigate to your mods folder and delete the old version before extracting the new one.

This update brings compatibility with CCL 0.12.2, so download it if you haven't already. Besides various fixes it also brings a completely overhauled armor system (see below for a breakdown) and a general injury rebalance. In general, wounds will be more painful so pawns will get knocked out quicker as they take damage. As usual, consider these changes highly experimental and subject to (a lot of) change. Feedback regarding bugs and balance is highly appreciated as I have little time to playtest myself these days.

The new armor system introduces armor penetration to attacks as a counter stat to armor. Instead of the old arcane rules projectile deflection chance is now based on the difference between penetration and armor. Depending on just how big this difference is a shot might be completely ineffective so don't expect a pistol to do much against a Centipede. Layered Devilstrand or Hyperweave might be effective at stopping pistol shots, but against sniper rifles you will barely see any effect at all. However, stacked armor does have an effect as each layer passed reduces a bullet's penetrative capabilities and makes it more likely to be absorbed by subsequent layers.

If a shot is deflected it doesn't vanish into the aether but will most likely cause bruising depending on just how big the difference between penetration and armor was. If the shot penetrates damage is reduced also according to the difference between penetration and armor. The armor itself will take damage in accordance with how much damage was absorbed: for bullets and sharp weapons high penetration means less damage to the armor as less energy is transfered to it. Blunt weapons do bonus damage to armor but only if it actually deflects the damage, so a T-shirt won't take much damage from a mace, but it won't block much either.

Due to technical limitations it is not possible to display the armor penetration stat in a tooltip. If you guys want to know the numbers, leave a post and I'll see about putting up a table or something. For now the basic breakdown is melee weapons < pistols < old rifles (survival rifle, etc.) < modern rifles (assault rifle, etc.) < sniper rifles/machine guns < futuristic rifles (charge rifle, etc.) < Mechanoid weapons.

It works fine with CCL 0.12.1.

Did you change the accuracy?
I played with CR mod in Alpha 10 and I remember, that I had a high accuracy there. Every shot hit the pawn or next to the pawn. But now the shots mostly hit the dirt meters behind the enemy pawns (I've never seen that a shot was too short, they always hit behind the pawn).

But still nice work :)

That was an artifact of the old aiming system. Under vanilla, a shot would randomly roll to see if it hits or misses and in case of a miss it would land somewhere in a 0.6x0.6 square. That's why gunfire looked accurate to you, because missing by more than 0.6 cells was literally impossible if a gun didn't have a forcedMissRadius. The new system allows for much higher deviations depending on distance and accuracy of the shooter.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: Jan2607 on September 14, 2015, 05:08:04 PM
When I load my colony, I get a debug log (screenshot attached). Can someone explain to me, what this means and which mod this causes?



[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 15, 2015, 11:30:14 AM
Update
Latta updated the Korean translation and translated the Defence Pack as well, so if you are using it grab the new download. If not, feel free to ignore it as nothing else changed.

When I load my colony, I get a debug log (screenshot attached). Can someone explain to me, what this means and which mod this causes?

Easiest way to find out which mod causes the conflict is to turn them on one by one and see which one causes the problem.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: Latta on September 15, 2015, 11:33:31 AM
When I load my colony, I get a debug log (screenshot attached). Can someone explain to me, what this means and which mod this causes?

That's a problem in your save file. Open it, find researchManager, and you will see duplicated researches in there. Like, start with GeothermalPower, and in the very center, GeothermalPower again. Delete bottom half, go to <value> section, delete bottom half. Save.

Remember that amount of two "bottom half"s must be same.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: Jan2607 on September 15, 2015, 12:34:32 PM

That's a problem in your save file. Open it, find researchManager, and you will see duplicated researches in there. Like, start with GeothermalPower, and in the very center, GeothermalPower again. Delete bottom half, go to <value> section, delete bottom half. Save.

Remember that amount of two "bottom half"s must be same.

Thanks for your answer. How do I open the save file? It's a .rws file and when I want to open it, it says cannot open.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: Latta on September 15, 2015, 12:39:42 PM
With your favorite or preferred text editor. Wordpad(if you are using Windows...), Atom or any other out there.

And please save a copy of your file.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: akiceabear on September 16, 2015, 07:56:40 AM
Hi NIA - are mechs intended to be game enders? I'm finding that no matter how much I save scum, its essentially impossible to stop a pack of centipedes. I have 5 colonists armed with EMP and regular grenades. No matter how many times I try, by the time the EMP wears off only 1 or 2 of 5 centipedes is down, and the others then simply destroy my colonists in the first volley.

Related to this - I think the market value of guns needs to be adjusted to reflect their lethality. For example, pulse rifles show up quite early for how incredibly lethal they are against pawns compared to many other weapons. I think increasing the market value of high rate of fire, high range, high damage weapons would delay/reduce their occurrence in raids, if I understand the raid value mechanic correctly. This may also be a solution to 5 centipedes effectively ending my colony in the first winter - a harrowing battle against 1-2 would be a more balanced challenge under their current lethality - I'd still probably have at least a maimed colonist or two out of it!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 16, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
Hi NIA - are mechs intended to be game enders? I'm finding that no matter how much I save scum, its essentially impossible to stop a pack of centipedes. I have 5 colonists armed with EMP and regular grenades. No matter how many times I try, by the time the EMP wears off only 1 or 2 of 5 centipedes is down, and the others then simply destroy my colonists in the first volley.

They're intended to be challenging but not game-enders. This is where the whole "no time to playtest" thing comes in and why it is important for users to leave feedback. Just did a test fight with 2 AR's, sniper, survival rifle vs one Centipede with Inferno cannon and yeah, they definitely seem to be very powerful with the new armor system. Looking at the raid values right now a Centipede is worth 290 points. For reference, a Scyther is worth 160, a melee pirate with shield is 150. Testing also showed they have gained a rather uncanny ability to spontaneously switch targets should the original target have ducked behind cover.

My personal take on Centipedes was always that they should be something like an IFV, i.e. an opponent with heavy armor and firepower which requires dedicated anti-vehicle weaponry to defeat. The problem right now is vanilla doesn't really offer much in the way of anti-vehicle weaponry. In another test fight I was using 2 AR's to draw fire while a third colonist was firing one of the anti-materiel rifles from Rimfire and the fight went much better. LMG's seem to do a decent number on them as well. I'll probably end up doubling the point cost of a Centipede and look into including some dedicated anti-vehicle weapons in the main mod. Further down the line I'd also like to include a lean-toggle button which lets colonists dodge incoming fire by ducking back behind a wall.

The pricing of guns is a good point as well. The market values are still balanced the way they were in previous Alphas but the recent mechanical additions have shaken up the usefulness of certain weapons so there will have to be some major rebalancing in that area. This applies to Centipede weapons which went from being unable to hit the broad side of a barn to deadly accuracy as well as certain other weapons. All in all as the mod nears feature-completion the old balance becomes increasingly obsolete and all the more important it is to identify these problem areas as they crop up.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: Jan2607 on September 16, 2015, 02:44:49 PM
If I want to make an recipe for the M2 turret to craft at the mechanics workbench (like the improvised turrets), what would I have to add?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: DaemonDeathAngel on September 16, 2015, 10:57:12 PM
I'm not in credits? :P After all that information i gave you the other day lol
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.5 (14.09.15) New armor system
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 17, 2015, 07:49:56 AM
Update
Rebalanced the Centipedes by increasing their points cost by 150%. So now you should see only 1-2 where there were 4-5 before.

If I want to make an recipe for the M2 turret to craft at the mechanics workbench (like the improvised turrets), what would I have to add?

A recipeDef like the turret has.

I'm not in credits? :P After all that information i gave you the other day lol

"DaemonDeathAngel - consultant on the topic of pain caused by bullet wounds and knife attacks." Your input was very valuable ;)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Commander Beanbag on September 17, 2015, 10:49:08 AM
Consider also reducing the selection weight in the mechanoid's faction def. In vanilla, centipedes and scythers share the same selection weight (100). The combat power change will probably just reduce the size of mechanoid raids.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: TheRedOne on September 17, 2015, 12:03:55 PM
The link for "Combat Realism for Project Armory" seems to lead to a 404 page
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 17, 2015, 12:32:20 PM
Consider also reducing the selection weight in the mechanoid's faction def. In vanilla, centipedes and scythers share the same selection weight (100). The combat power change will probably just reduce the size of mechanoid raids.

Good point, I'll have a look at it.

The link for "Combat Realism for Project Armory" seems to lead to a 404 page

Its not updated to A12 since Project Armory isn't updated either. I'll put up a disclaimer.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Pokk720 on September 17, 2015, 01:33:31 PM
Just wanted to say I love your mod and I really appreciate all your hard work. I had a centipede and a scyther drop in on my colony randomly and the results were devastating! but it was fun. I ended up having to use a shotgun right up close on the centipede to take it down but at that point I had already lost too many people to continue. But it was a great way to go out.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Didact04 on September 17, 2015, 03:03:48 PM
I used the latest version of CR and the version of the community library that people said is compatible, but I get this massive list of red and yellow errors that basically say everything in the mod contains a null value. This happens even if I remove every mod and install only the combat realism, with or without the community library.

I'm at something of a loss. I don't want to have a sniper rifle that plucks limbs like flower petals or magical bows and arrows that can punch through power armor, but I also need a playable game.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 17, 2015, 03:51:00 PM
I used the latest version of CR and the version of the community library that people said is compatible, but I get this massive list of red and yellow errors that basically say everything in the mod contains a null value. This happens even if I remove every mod and install only the combat realism, with or without the community library.

I'm at something of a loss. I don't want to have a sniper rifle that plucks limbs like flower petals or magical bows and arrows that can punch through power armor, but I also need a playable game.

Just which version of CCL do you have? You should be using the latest version, the issues people mentioned regarding CCL 0.12.2 have been resolved.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: DaemonDeathAngel on September 17, 2015, 06:51:43 PM
I feel special now :P
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: akiceabear on September 17, 2015, 08:04:05 PM
Did you start a new world/game after installing?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: AllenWL on September 18, 2015, 10:39:25 AM
I recently got attacked by a pack of manhunter wargs and it was... disappointingly easy.

I think wargs should be sturdier.
I mean, a rhino can take multiple shots from a rifle, a thrumbo can take more than I can count and still be going strong, but a warg, which is said to have been created for 'population suppression' is killed in less than 3? I dunno...
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: akiceabear on September 18, 2015, 11:19:11 AM
I think its reasonable - think about wolves versus rhinos. Wolves can definitely control a unarmed populations' growth, but not take shots the way a rhino can.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: LustrousWolf on September 18, 2015, 11:28:05 AM
Idea? Maybe like having raiders trying to rescue their men / women whilst fleeing? Rather than just ditching them? Sorta more realistic in my opinion. Or try to haul their dead friends maybe, cos I mean, if you and your best friend were shooting some other guys, and your friends gets shot dead, I am pretty sure you would try your best to haul your friend back with you to bury them? I know it is kinda unfriendly to game play, but maybe with reworked raider AI they can make decisions on whether they cant rescue their friends and have to leave them?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: AllenWL on September 18, 2015, 09:11:53 PM
I think its reasonable - think about wolves versus rhinos. Wolves can definitely control a unarmed populations' growth, but not take shots the way a rhino can.

True, but wargs are genetically modified super wolves, shouldn't they be tougher than the average rabbit?
And besides, there isn't a single unarmed population in rimworld. Shouldn't the wargs have been made to control a armed population's growth? I mean, if they're unarmed, why bother making genetically modified animals to do it?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 19, 2015, 05:19:23 AM
The truth about wargs is, I haven't touched animals due to concerns about compatibility with other mods. The topic has already come up when we were working on the new aiming system and debating changing animal body sizes. As it is they're kind of all over the place, same for animal health, natural armor, etc. Maybe at some point in the future there will be some kind of "Animal Realism" sister mod to this one and it'll adjust all the animal health, body size, armor, etc. to more reasonable values but so far priorities are elsewhere.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: AllenWL on September 19, 2015, 07:49:21 AM
Oh, I see.

On another note, I bought a LMD(LMG? Forgot what it's called) and it seems pretty powerful. 100 bullet magazine, 30 shot burst, and pretty fast too. On the downside, it's a lot harder to get healthy prisoners now.

I think I like the new aiming system a lot more than the old one. After I saw a arrow fly past a embrasure and hit the wall behind it, I took a close look at the bullets during a battle. Having the bullets fly by the pawns and hit stuff behind them looks a lot cooler then every bullet hitting the floor around the pawn.
Also, I realized that I need to plan my base better. I really don't need a bullet to miss my colonist and blow up the solar panels.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Pirate on September 19, 2015, 08:11:39 PM
This mod looks amazing, a shame I can't play it as it's incompatible with the ultimate overhaul modpack.

Do you intend to make it compatible?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Alistaire on September 20, 2015, 03:20:54 AM
It's not supposed to be compatible because Ninefinger doesn't have permission to use it along with a donation button.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Pirate on September 20, 2015, 03:55:08 AM
It's not supposed to be compatible because Ninefinger doesn't have permission to use it along with a donation button.

Learn to read.

Im talking about compatibility, not inclusion in the modpack.

And to make a mod like this only to have it played by very few people simply because it's incompatible with the most popular modpack seems kinda silly.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Alistaire on September 20, 2015, 04:22:40 AM
It's not supposed to be compatible because Ninefinger doesn't have permission to use it along with a donation button.

Learn to read.

Im talking about compatibility, not inclusion in the modpack.

And to make a mod like this only to have it played by very few people simply because it's incompatible with the most popular modpack seems kinda silly.

Why would NIA make a compatibility patch for a modpack the mod shouldn't be in in the first place. The mod edits several core game defs
and includes an entirely new Projectile class which makes it incompatible with many mods which edit or check for those. Compatibility is not
the aim of CombatRealism, and compatibility with Ultimate Overhaul is even less of a concern since Ninefinger shouldn't use it anyways.

I personally don't care how many people play my mods or mods I worked on, it's not like it ultimately matters and there's really no use to
you as a mod creator to include your mod in Ultimate Overhaul - since nobody feels inclined to comment on the mod itself (but rather on the
modpack as a whole) you don't get anything useful out of it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: zenfur on September 20, 2015, 05:24:08 AM
I personally don't care how many people play my mods or mods I worked on, it's not like it ultimately matters and there's really no use to
you as a mod creator to include your mod in Ultimate Overhaul - since nobody feels inclined to comment on the mod itself (but rather on the modpack as a whole) you don't get anything useful out of it.

I think you're wrong with this one. I have played both hardcore and U.Ovh. modpacks and thanks to them I got to know many mods. The feedback about changes/bugs I directed directly to the mod creators of the content I liked. Also I've learned about many mods existing mostly thanks to the modpack(s) and its credits list.

In my opinion instead banishing NineFinger (which does lots of work to update other mods everytime new alpha is released) for getting donate button of his own, get donating option yourself! I'd be glad to give you a little something for these awesome mods like combat realism :) I have nothing against modders getting donations for the work they have done. I guess what you have the biggest problem with is the fact that Ninefinger gets such popularity and recognition for mostly aggregating other people's work.

Also maybe you could agree to support compatibility for share of the donations?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 20, 2015, 05:38:18 AM
This mod looks amazing, a shame I can't play it as it's incompatible with the ultimate overhaul modpack.

Do you intend to make it compatible?

While I am not against making compatibility patches with individual mods I do not have the time/inclination to maintain a patch for any modpacks. I have talked to Ninefinger in the past about him creating a patch under conditions that don't involve him monetizing my work (other people making money off of something I released for free just really rubs me the wrong way) but he said he was not interested due to his own time constraints, which is fair enough really. Maybe things will change once Project Armory has a proper update and I release my own PA patch and/or Ninefinger takes down his donation link but so far neither of us is willing to invest the time and effort required to maintain such a patch and I doubt anyone else would be given the time and effort required.

In my opinion instead banishing NineFinger (which does lots of work to update other mods everytime new alpha is released) for getting donate button of his own, get donating option yourself! I'd be glad to give you a little something for these awesome mods like combat realism :) I have nothing against modders getting donations for the work they have done. I guess what you have the biggest problem with is the fact that Ninefinger gets such popularity and recognition for mostly aggregating other people's work.

Also maybe you could agree to support compatibility for share of the donations?

While I can't speak for Alistaire, for me this has never been about money. I made this mod because I like playing with it myself and I released it because I thought other people might enjoy it as well. I do not want any money nor do I think monetizing mods in any way, shape or form is a good idea (if you want to know my reasons in detail, I talked about it at length in this thread (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12640.0)). As such I certainly do not want to start bickering with Ninefinger over a share of whatever donations he gets, nor do I want a donation link of my own.

I intensely dislike the idea of someone else monetizing work I have released for free and that is the reason why I have originally asked Ninefinger to take down his CR patch, however it is not a blanket ban of him doing so in the way a certain other modder has done. Should Nine end up releasing a CR patch under conditions that don't involve monetizing it I would have no problems with it just as I never had any issues with it before this whole donation affair started.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Pirate on September 20, 2015, 01:56:47 PM
While I am not against making compatibility patches with individual mods I do not have the time/inclination to maintain a patch for any modpacks...

Sad to see the root of all evil doing it's thing once again. Thanks for answering though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: FMJ Penguin on September 20, 2015, 02:22:04 PM
Don't think people realize just how many mods are in those compilations. Asking someone to maintain and make compat. their mod for something like  UOM for instance is essentially asking for compatibility with 100+ other mods. Just to put things in perspective for some folks.

So yea, can't blame anyone for not wanting to bother, much less maintain compat. with that many other mods on top of new alpha's resetting the whole process.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 21, 2015, 05:46:16 PM
Just a heads up, here's a preview of the next feature I've been working on recently (ignore the numbers, those are just there for debugging purposes):

(http://i.imgur.com/pw5u95z.png)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 21, 2015, 05:48:42 PM
If you ignore the numbers, there's not much to be seen :P
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 21, 2015, 05:54:55 PM
If you ignore the numbers, there's not much to be seen :P

Well, the idea is in the release version it'll just say "Suppressed" without the numbers. Those are just there to make it easier to see how much suppression is being dished out.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: notfood on September 22, 2015, 01:01:32 AM
Reminds me to Warhammer4k Dawn of War 2 suppresion.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Grogfeld on September 22, 2015, 03:56:16 AM
O CoooL suppression system was something I've been looking for!  Does it just lower aiming speed, or give also boost to hmm "defence" because suppressed pawn will hunker down?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: LustrousWolf on September 22, 2015, 11:18:25 AM
I am using Apparello with combat realism, works fine no errors, but some clothing in Apparello give off a tiny armor buff, now this means any pawn with some clothes from Apparello with that tiny armor buff, always get bruised and seem to never get shot? not sure if this is intended to always bruise when being shot at but yeah, not sure if a patch could be made or change it so low armored clothing means it has a low percent chance to bruise and normally will hit the pawn and cause bleeding.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 22, 2015, 03:02:22 PM
O CoooL suppression system was something I've been looking for!  Does it just lower aiming speed, or give also boost to hmm "defence" because suppressed pawn will hunker down?

Right now pawns will dash for cover, then hunker down and not return fire at all. Assuming they have hard cover nearby hunkering will make them impossible to hit for the suppressor but it also means they're stuck and unable to return fire, so any other pawns are free to move about and flank the suppressed pawn. The amount of incoming fire a pawn can tolerate before being suppressed depends on his current mood and mental break threshold, so pawns with good morale will be harder to suppress. Also armor worn, maximum damage and armor penetration of a bullet are all factored in as well.

I am using Apparello with combat realism, works find no errors, but some clothing in Apparello give off a tiny armor buff, now this means any pawn with some clothes from Apparello with that tiny armor buff, always get bruised and seem to never get shot? not sure if this is intended to always bruise when being shot at but yeah, not sure if a patch could be made or change it so low armored clothing means it has a low percent chance to bruise and normally will hit the pawn and cause bleeding.

Not sure what your problem seems to be but any apparel from other mods should be compatible with the new armor system out of the box. If a bullet is deflected because it cannot penetrate the target's armor it is supposed to cause bruising instead so unless you're getting sniper rifle shots deflected by a pair of fancy pants or something it would be working as intended.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: AHare on September 22, 2015, 10:47:29 PM
How would one go about removing CR from their game and keeping an existing save non-corrupt? I tried it out for a bit and decided it's just not my thing, but the colony is actually doing pretty well compared to my others so I'd like to keep it. I get SquadBrain errors when unticking it from the Mods menu.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: AllenWL on September 23, 2015, 12:31:43 AM
O CoooL suppression system was something I've been looking for!  Does it just lower aiming speed, or give also boost to hmm "defence" because suppressed pawn will hunker down?

Right now pawns will dash for cover, then hunker down and not return fire at all. Assuming they have hard cover nearby hunkering will make them impossible to hit for the suppressor but it also means they're stuck and unable to return fire, so any other pawns are free to move about and flank the suppressed pawn. The amount of incoming fire a pawn can tolerate before being suppressed depends on his current mood and mental break threshold, so pawns with good morale will be harder to suppress. Also armor worn, maximum damage and armor penetration of a bullet are all factored in as well.
What about explosives such as grenades, inferno cannons, and mortar shells?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: LustrousWolf on September 23, 2015, 11:14:49 AM
What I am saying is, it is only a tiny buff, so if a pawn is wearing a top from Apparello, and gets shot by a shotgun, it causes bruises or very minor bleeding injuries, but if the pawn is wearing an armor plate, and gets shot by a shotgun, it causes bruising and no bleeding injuries, should it not be that if its a tiny buff it would still cause bleeding, and then wearing the armored plate causes bruising?

Not sure what your problem seems to be but any apparel from other mods should be compatible with the new armor system out of the box. If a bullet is deflected because it cannot penetrate the target's armor it is supposed to cause bruising instead so unless you're getting sniper rifle shots deflected by a pair of fancy pants or something it would be working as intended.
[/quote]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: FX2K on September 23, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
It's not supposed to be compatible because Ninefinger doesn't have permission to use it along with a donation button.

Im talking about compatibility, not inclusion in the modpack.

And to make a mod like this only to have it played by very few people simply because it's incompatible with the most popular modpack seems kinda silly.


While I am not against making compatibility patches with individual mods I do not have the time/inclination to maintain a patch for any modpacks...

Sad to see the root of all evil doing it's thing once again. Thanks for answering though.

Such a shame..  I wouldn't mind using this too but since its not allowed to be used with the UO mod pack, which is the only reason I really play rimworld atm, then I guess I never will be able to.  All because of a donation link which is clearly not asking for money for the work you do,  but donating for the effort that nine goes into to helping us non-techy folks out to make all these super cool mods work together and offer some balance too. 

I doubt many even bother or take a second look at the donate option for that matter, as is always the case with such things... it's not like the pack is behind a paywall.

Nevermind.. Just a shame is all.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 23, 2015, 01:18:52 PM
All because of a donation link which is clearly not asking for money for the work you do

Uh-huh, you're not exactly donating rainbows and kisses, are you? The only reason to put up a paypal donation link is to make money, even Ninefinger himself was always clear about the purpose of it. Nevermind the fact that the lack of a patch is more down to the amount of effort required to maintain it and nobody, including Nine, being willing to invest that time.

Contrary to popular belief including options for stuff involves more than just snapping your fingers and have checkboxes automagically appear. It is a lot of work because more often than not it means twice the effort has to go into maintaining both versions. So if that means two mods are incompatible and people can't have both running together it may be unfortunate for the users but is ultimately a simple fact of life. Saying it is all because of some donation link is just plain silly.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: FX2K on September 23, 2015, 04:19:03 PM
All because of a donation link which is clearly not asking for money for the work you do

Uh-huh, you're not exactly donating rainbows and kisses, are you? The only reason to put up a paypal donation link is to make money, even Ninefinger himself was always clear about the purpose of it. Nevermind the fact that the lack of a patch is more down to the amount of effort required to maintain it and nobody, including Nine, being willing to invest that time.

Of course it's to make money.. I meant that the link is in no way asking for money based on the work you have done for your mod... it's asking for money for the work he does allowing people like me to use it alongside heaps of other mods alongside the balance alterations and whatever else to make an awesome game experience... the final part of the puzzle for all the great mods out there, IMO.

Contrary to popular belief including options for stuff involves more than just snapping your fingers and have checkboxes automagically appear. It is a lot of work because more often than not it means twice the effort has to go into maintaining both versions. So if that means two mods are incompatible and people can't have both running together it may be unfortunate for the users but is ultimately a simple fact of life. Saying it is all because of some donation link is just plain silly.

Obviously a lot of work goes into it and obviously I can't speak for NF here, but it was part of the pack previously, meaning he obviously had done it before, so even if he wanted to do that as you put it "lot of work" he can't, because of a donation link.

Anyway, its your mod, it's entirely up to you.. I'm just saying it's a shame is all.
It looks like a decent mod, but guess I will never get to see, such is life.. I agree.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: MarvinKosh on September 23, 2015, 07:53:49 PM
If you want to create two instances of RimWorld, one to run a particular modpack, and one to run your own hand-picked set of mods, then you can. The command-line options to do that have been kicking around for a couple of alphas now.

Quote from: RimWorld readme file
OVERRIDING:
You can override the save data folder. This is useful, for example, if you want to install the game on a USB stick so you can plug and play it from anywhere.
To do this, add this to the end of the command line used to launch the game:

-savedatafolder C:/Path/To/The/Folder

So it'll look something like this:

C:/RimWorld/RimWorld.exe -savedatafolder C:/Path/To/The/Folder

If you don't start the path with anything, it'll be relative to the game's root folder. So you could do this, to have the game save data in a folder called SaveData in its own root folder:

-savedatafolder SaveData

Be sure the game is running with permission to modify the folder. It may not work properly if, for example, you run the game under default permissions on its own install folder.

To be clear, this means that you can have a folder called, for example,  'G:\RimAltSaveFolder' as the target, and RimWorld will create an entirely new Config, Saves and Worlds folders inside of that. If your RimWorld shortcut has -saveddatafolder G:\RimAltSaveFolder as a command-line option, it will launch that config and save folder. Since you can also just make another installation of RimWorld on your computer, you can switch between mod configs pretty damn easily.

Don't harass mod creators to make a compatibility patch or to let others do it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on September 25, 2015, 08:25:58 AM
Is there a way to disable reloading? I'm not really fond of the feature to begin with and it seems to break for some guns, leaving the colonist stuck in a daze about the concept of reloading, which makes it impossible for me to move them at all afterwards.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: Jacksidious on September 26, 2015, 12:12:25 AM
Love this mod, so much fun. So happy to see it for alpha 12 now!

Thank you!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.3.6 (17.09.15) Centipede rebalance
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 26, 2015, 08:21:40 AM
Update

This is a fairly big update so let me just quote the changelog:

Additions
Balancing
Fixes

I also updated the feature list with a short explanation of how the suppression mechanic works so check it out.

Is there a way to disable reloading? I'm not really fond of the feature to begin with and it seems to break for some guns, leaving the colonist stuck in a daze about the concept of reloading, which makes it impossible for me to move them at all afterwards.

You'd have to change the XML entries for all the guns to use Verb_ShootCR/Verb_ShootCRShotgun instead of Verb_ShootCRReload/Verb_ShootCRShotgunReload
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Didact04 on September 27, 2015, 06:50:36 AM
Having a hard time versus mechs still. Now that every bullet is life-threatening, miniguns are looking absolutely terrifying and scythers hit like a truck. Every other bullet is either a kill or an incap and I'm at something of a loss. What are some of the strategies people use when dealing with mechs? If I don't have overwhelming force and the time to build a fort around the ship I have a problem, and even then scythers never miss.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: akiceabear on September 27, 2015, 07:02:56 AM
I leave ships alone until I can buy AGS turrets or mortars. Agreed they are pretty much impossible with pawns alone. I think balancing their value makes more sense now, rather than nerfing their abilities - NIAs last centipede adjustment helped a lot but also kept mechanism terrifying.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 27, 2015, 09:03:34 AM
Having a hard time versus mechs still. Now that every bullet is life-threatening, miniguns are looking absolutely terrifying and scythers hit like a truck. Every other bullet is either a kill or an incap and I'm at something of a loss. What are some of the strategies people use when dealing with mechs? If I don't have overwhelming force and the time to build a fort around the ship I have a problem, and even then scythers never miss.

My usual tactic is to use EMP mortars/grenades to stun them, then lob as much firepower as I can before they can adapt to it. Scythers can be nasty with their guns but they also go down relatively quickly. For Centipedes you need to make sure your guns can get through the armor, pistols and SMG's will just bounce off of them.

On that note, I wonder if people would be interested in a sort-of "how to" guide? Basically I was thinking of taking screenshots of various tactical situations during my next colony and post them as after-action reports. While I don't claim to be the best player out there I imagine some people who have trouble might benefit from a few examples on how to do things.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on September 27, 2015, 12:34:38 PM
I recently got to experience a 60+ tribal raid that probably would of killed my colony off immediately on a vanilla run.

There's some extreme satisfaction of watching your 6-7 colonists with a mix of machine pistols and rifles just mowing down the primitive tribal members that keep rushing you. Even more-so when the back-end that wasn't immediately killed ends up hauling ass for the nearest rock rubble and hunkering down completely.

This mod manages to really fix the underlying issue with this game's combat mechanics, which is usually how weak most weapons are. If it wasn't for this mod odds are that raid would of just been the first 5-7 tribals in front soaking up several shots and still managing to rush forward for a hit.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Mr.Cross on September 27, 2015, 04:51:58 PM
-Snippets from NoImageAvailable-

I'd like this as i'm curious as to how you and other people make bases. That and i'm a newb when it comes to strategic placement with this mod...
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on September 28, 2015, 01:39:57 AM
Would it be possible to have the bullet's height effect what body part it lands on?

I've armed my colonists best I can, and put them behind embrasures, just to have them somehow take a bullet to the leg and get incapacitated in a single shot. Seeing how armor for the legs is pretty hard to get, it would be nice if being behind cover could prevent certain parts from being hit.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: akiceabear on September 28, 2015, 08:15:00 AM
I'd welcome a strategy guide for CR!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 28, 2015, 09:42:21 AM
Would it be possible to have the bullet's height effect what body part it lands on?

I've armed my colonists best I can, and put them behind embrasures, just to have them somehow take a bullet to the leg and get incapacitated in a single shot. Seeing how armor for the legs is pretty hard to get, it would be nice if being behind cover could prevent certain parts from being hit.

Unfortunately no, the body part system has no concept of body part location beyond "part x is attached to/inside of part y" and whenever a bullet hits a target it just does a random roll to see what part was damaged. Changing it would require a complete rework of the way bodies are defined.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on September 28, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Would it be possible to have the bullet's height effect what body part it lands on?

I've armed my colonists best I can, and put them behind embrasures, just to have them somehow take a bullet to the leg and get incapacitated in a single shot. Seeing how armor for the legs is pretty hard to get, it would be nice if being behind cover could prevent certain parts from being hit.

Unfortunately no, the body part system has no concept of body part location beyond "part x is attached to/inside of part y" and whenever a bullet hits a target it just does a random roll to see what part was damaged. Changing it would require a complete rework of the way bodies are defined.

How about it then, seems like a good next followup realism project ;)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Hague on September 28, 2015, 05:31:40 PM
How about a skill that gets trained called "Combat Experience" when you're under fire. Higher combat experience would grant increased effective cover bonus and reduced effects of suppression. Also, it would be pretty nice if you could force hunker your own pawns while drafted.

Could also add training to animals to help them resist suppression or be given commands to take cover. "Down!" would be a thing you could teach them to grant them a dodge bonus to ranged attacks and explosive fragments (if possible) and the ability to order them to hunker down directly. "Play Dead" would let a suppressed animal pretend to be dead if unable to reach cover, removing their direct aggression (until suppression ends) and removing enemy aggro.

I'm not entirely familiar with how the game is coded but regarding the idea of leg cover for sandbags, would it be possible to just add a list of "lower body" parts that would simply negate an attack and add the check somewhere that negates the attack when any pawn is struck in any part on this list while behind cover and not prone/hunkered? It's a little hacky but it could be possible.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on September 29, 2015, 12:22:28 AM
Would it be possible to have the bullet's height effect what body part it lands on?

I've armed my colonists best I can, and put them behind embrasures, just to have them somehow take a bullet to the leg and get incapacitated in a single shot. Seeing how armor for the legs is pretty hard to get, it would be nice if being behind cover could prevent certain parts from being hit.

Unfortunately no, the body part system has no concept of body part location beyond "part x is attached to/inside of part y" and whenever a bullet hits a target it just does a random roll to see what part was damaged. Changing it would require a complete rework of the way bodies are defined.
Well, I would also be equally happy with a leg armor of sorts. The only one I know of is the power armor, and that's pretty expensive.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Didact04 on September 29, 2015, 05:59:48 AM
Scythers continue to terrify me. Firefights in particular seem especially dangerous against a Scyther kill squad that will sometimes zerg my defenses, considering they only need one shot to possibly kill. I might not even have armor by the time these guys show up on Randy Random, and the one time they used my own embrasures against me really startled me. They got to the fortifications before I did and suddenly the place wasn't so secure. People got picked off cleanly as they scrambled for cover, and there was no good place to engage from, because the area had been a marsh and was totally open.

Strats for large groups of zerging mechs? If I can't dump 10 automatic weapons on them it becomes a trade, and I don't like trades. Trades are how you lose colonies.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheRedOne on September 29, 2015, 06:04:20 AM
Melee fighters with shields seem to be not bad, because their sniper shots hardly penetrate/bring down shields.

Another thing is to not have them their advantage on range. Their weapons are good on range, so try to avoid fighting them at long range. Shotguns at corners where when they see your dudes, it's too late for them.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Herc18 on September 29, 2015, 03:03:58 PM
Can you add this to old saves? Or does it require a new colony?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Didact04 on September 29, 2015, 05:36:36 PM
Melee fighters with shields seem to be not bad, because their sniper shots hardly penetrate/bring down shields.

Another thing is to not have them their advantage on range. Their weapons are good on range, so try to avoid fighting them at long range. Shotguns at corners where when they see your dudes, it's too late for them.

Meleeing something bristling with odd and lethal blades has never seemed like a good idea to me, shields or no. The armor does make melee combat a lot more feasible, but melee injuries are painful and saving someone at the feet of a scyther that just leveled its gun back at you is not a feasible 'oh shit' tactic.

I am surprised I didn't think of the range thing before honestly. Kind of a derp moment. Can you check the information on an enemy's held weapon or is that not possible?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: BetaSpectre on September 29, 2015, 05:51:24 PM
Shrapnel should do no damage to anyone wearing power armor, its like if someone tosses a knife at you, if you're armored no damage from the metal. IRL Body armor is good nough for shrap. Unless you hit from an exposed part.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Lupin III on September 29, 2015, 08:36:13 PM
Any chanceto make this compatible with "miscellaneous w MAI"? I can't mount the weapons on the automatic turret bases.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on September 30, 2015, 07:32:30 PM
Any chanceto make this compatible with "miscellaneous w MAI"? I can't mount the weapons on the automatic turret bases.

Never heard of any compatibility problems with that mod, what exactly isn't working?

Shrapnel should do no damage to anyone wearing power armor, its like if someone tosses a knife at you, if you're armored no damage from the metal. IRL Body armor is good nough for shrap. Unless you hit from an exposed part.

Shell fragments are currently set to the same penetration as the survival rifle. Any armor with at least 55% sharp resistance should be impenetrable. It would still cause blunt trauma but it shouldn't cause any bleeding wounds except to exposed body parts.

I am surprised I didn't think of the range thing before honestly. Kind of a derp moment. Can you check the information on an enemy's held weapon or is that not possible?

You can check on raiders but not Mechanoids because their guns are menu-hidden.

Can you add this to old saves? Or does it require a new colony?

Last time I tested it required a new game, but that was several alphas ago.

Well, I would also be equally happy with a leg armor of sorts. The only one I know of is the power armor, and that's pretty expensive.

Apparel is somewhat beyond the scope of this mod but if you really want leg armor you can try Apparello, it is compatible with A12 and CR and offers armor for feet and legs.

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Lupin III on October 01, 2015, 03:54:17 PM
Any chanceto make this compatible with "miscellaneous w MAI"? I can't mount the weapons on the automatic turret bases.
Never heard of any compatibility problems with that mod, what exactly isn't working?
Hmm, when I try to mount a weapon on a turret all options (like mount LMG/assault rifle/sniper rifle) are grayed out except for "EMP-Grenades". I have the weapons to be mounted, tried moving them to other stockpiles, to equipment racks or dropping them on the floor. Still EMP-Grenades are the only option I can select. I don't have any other mod that changes weapons or adds turrets besides combat realism (+defense) and miscellaneous w MAI.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on October 01, 2015, 04:41:26 PM
Any chanceto make this compatible with "miscellaneous w MAI"? I can't mount the weapons on the automatic turret bases.
Never heard of any compatibility problems with that mod, what exactly isn't working?
Hmm, when I try to mount a weapon on a turret all options (like mount LMG/assault rifle/sniper rifle) are grayed out except for "EMP-Grenades". I have the weapons to be mounted, tried moving them to other stockpiles, to equipment racks or dropping them on the floor. Still EMP-Grenades are the only option I can select. I don't have any other mod that changes weapons or adds turrets besides combat realism (+defense) and miscellaneous w MAI.

Do molotovs appear as mountable? I have a suspicion what might be causing this and I'll talk to Haplo to see if we can find the source of this.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Mr.Cross on October 02, 2015, 09:02:08 AM
I'm curious, What are the other plans for this mod? Besides bug fixing what ever people find? I suppose I should also thank you for birthing such a beautiful mod.... So Thank you.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on October 02, 2015, 09:47:51 AM
I'm curious, What are the other plans for this mod? Besides bug fixing what ever people find? I suppose I should also thank you for birthing such a beautiful mod.... So Thank you.

Right now the only real plans are for proper trenches, a manual hunker down command and a complete overhaul of raider AI to make it much more intelligent. That last one in particular is likely going to take a decent bit of time, though once done I'd go so far as to call this mod feature-complete. Other things that may or may not make it in are turret reloading, reloads consuming ammo and changing grenades into consumable items you carry in your inventory along with your primary weapon.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Mr.Cross on October 02, 2015, 10:13:17 PM
Oooo, sounds beautiful. I fear that the consumable ammo might not be for me so if it does make it to a final release could I ask for a optional sorta thing, or an least instructions on how to do it. (and I do know that i'm talking weeks maybe even months.) But man those more difficult AI would be amazing!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Lupin III on October 04, 2015, 03:22:36 PM
Hmm, when I try to mount a weapon on a turret all options (like mount LMG/assault rifle/sniper rifle) are grayed out except for "EMP-Grenades". I have the weapons to be mounted, tried moving them to other stockpiles, to equipment racks or dropping them on the floor. Still EMP-Grenades are the only option I can select. I don't have any other mod that changes weapons or adds turrets besides combat realism (+defense) and miscellaneous w MAI.

Do molotovs appear as mountable? I have a suspicion what might be causing this and I'll talk to Haplo to see if we can find the source of this.

Yes, they do appear. I have also installed the newest version of MAI (1.12.6) and it still happens. I now doubt it is related to your mod. It looks more like the popup menu is somehow broken. After selling/destroying all EMP-Grenades, it was the incendiary launcher that was the only mountable weapon (rest grayed out as before). I then got rid of all launchers. Now a shotgun was the only weapon. The only common thing: the only highlightable entry was always the second to last entry in the menu, the last being "..." for a next page, which was also not selectable. I will post more of the problem in Haplo's thread https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3612.msg177206#msg177206 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3612.msg177206#msg177206).
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Hague on October 04, 2015, 05:22:09 PM
Would it be possible for pawns to be given a slot for thrown weapons and hand explosives? Seems odd that someone would simply carry grenades but no other weapons. Would be nice to have EMP grenades with my conventional standard loadout and the ability to ground target the attacks with a context menu.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: notfood on October 04, 2015, 07:11:03 PM
Would it be possible for pawns to be given a slot for thrown weapons and hand explosives? Seems odd that someone would simply carry grenades but no other weapons. Would be nice to have EMP grenades with my conventional standard loadout and the ability to ground target the attacks with a context menu.

Recommending Tools for Haul (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12282.0) for that. Just equip a backpack and you can switch between guns/grenades. I usually equip a sniper, a pistol and a grenade.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Boston on October 04, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
Alright, so I just downloaded the latest version of Combat Realism, Combat realism defense, and CCL v0.12.3. ( from the downloads links on the first pages of each mod) Even just using CCL and Combat realism core, I am getting a bug where the mods automatically deload.

All of my mods are for Alpha 12. This is a list of the mods I am using:
Containers for Stuff
EDB Mod order and Prepare Carefully
Enviro SK
Extended Woodworking
Fences v1.0
Fish Industry
Hospitality 1.07
Medieval SHields
Micellaneous HiRes
Modular Tables v1.47
More Factions Spawn
Right tool for the job
Tools for Hauling
Vegetable Garden

What is going on?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheRedOne on October 04, 2015, 10:28:42 PM
Did you create a new world? Also, remember that some mods need to be loaded in a specific order.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Boston on October 04, 2015, 11:04:12 PM
Did you create a new world? Also, remember that some mods need to be loaded in a specific order.

No, this is just "turning on" the mods on the Main page of Rimworld. And, I still get the"incompatible" message when I load Core, CCL, and Combat realism core.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Didact04 on October 05, 2015, 04:26:01 AM
I find it kind of odd that someone can get shot in the heart, collapse due to extreme pain, and sit there and bleed to death not in minutes but over the course of 24 hours. Shouldn't a shot to the heart cause an extreme amount of bleeding? Like, in real life that'd be something along the lines of, 'You need that stitched in the next 20 seconds or you're going into shock' or 'You're running on adrenaline and are about to drop like a sack of bad hand-me-downs.'
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alcyonna on October 05, 2015, 05:50:52 AM
Hi, same thing for me ,like @Boston incompatible message and reset all my mods.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on October 05, 2015, 03:40:55 PM
I find it kind of odd that someone can get shot in the heart, collapse due to extreme pain, and sit there and bleed to death not in minutes but over the course of 24 hours. Shouldn't a shot to the heart cause an extreme amount of bleeding? Like, in real life that'd be something along the lines of, 'You need that stitched in the next 20 seconds or you're going into shock' or 'You're running on adrenaline and are about to drop like a sack of bad hand-me-downs.'

That's actually a good point, I'll have a look at bleeding rates once I get some time to work on the mod again.

Did you create a new world? Also, remember that some mods need to be loaded in a specific order.

No, this is just "turning on" the mods on the Main page of Rimworld. And, I still get the"incompatible" message when I load Core, CCL, and Combat realism core.

Is your load order Core -> CCL -> CR? If so I'd like you to append your log file, its YourRimworldFolder/RimWorld914Win_Data/output_log.txt
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Nebbeh on October 06, 2015, 11:24:33 AM
Added the mods and in the order you provided, still get lots of errors. see attacked log

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on October 06, 2015, 01:40:25 PM
Added the mods and in the order you provided, still get lots of errors. see attacked log

From your output log, there is NO CCL loaded before combat realism.

here is a copy of the load order from my modconfig...

-<ModsConfigData>

<buildNumber>911</buildNumber>


-<activeMods>

<li>Core</li>

<li>Community Core Library</li>

<li>Community Core Library - Vanilla Tweaks</li>

<li>EdBModOrder</li>

<li>CombatRealism</li>

<li>CombatRealism Defence</li>

</activeMods>

</ModsConfigData>

and the lines from the output log I looked for in yours and never found,

Community Core Library v0.12.3
Community Core Library :: Community Core Library :: Injected Specials
Community Core Library :: Advanced Research :: Initialized
Community Core Library :: Help System :: Initialized
Community Core Library :: Initialized
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Nebbeh on October 06, 2015, 03:34:19 PM
Ok will look into it, thx :)

Edit; Found my error, while downloading the different CR mods, I missed the CR Core, so I only had Community Core/Vanilla and Combat Realism Defence.

Thx for the input ^^
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: magmaticdorf on October 07, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Hello, I need help with this mod. It took off the regular improvised steel turrets when I installed it, and currently they cannot be accessed through the security node of the architect tab. Is this mod supposed to implement another way to install turrets, or is this an unfortunate glitch?

Edit: Figured it out, machining table makes improvised turrets.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Lordprimate on October 08, 2015, 06:40:32 PM
i have a secondary question... using the combat realism defense mod... how do i get access to build those turrets???
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on October 08, 2015, 11:53:00 PM
<!--Generic Interest Comment-->
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Soul312 on October 09, 2015, 04:05:47 AM
hey, can u plz make the no turret crafting optional? My friend wont use this mod coz of it and im starting to get annoyed coz no one seems to be selling them, so yeah, please make that optional
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on October 09, 2015, 07:00:25 AM
i have a secondary question... using the combat realism defense mod... how do i get access to build those turrets???

See the OP for instructions on where to obtain the new turrets.

<!--Generic Interest Comment-->

What

hey, can u plz make the no turret crafting optional? My friend wont use this mod coz of it and im starting to get annoyed coz no one seems to be selling them, so yeah, please make that optional

1) Please don't use these silly abbreviations like "u" and "plz." This is a forum, not an IM chat.
2) I specifically made the advanced turrets buyable only to prevent spam and I locked the improvised turrets behind the machining table because I think it is a fair balance to their increased combat power. I will not make patches for such minor balance adjustments.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on October 09, 2015, 12:12:55 PM
<!--Generic Interest Comment-->

What
Its how I monitor threadz, so when someone says something I know.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on October 11, 2015, 03:58:44 AM
A centipede overran my base of 25 chickens, 11 huskies, and 7 colonists and killed them all in the course of 3 days, completely destroying every effort to rally against it.

The 4 out of the 7 being brawlers and one of the gunners having a shotgun probably didn't help either.
On the plus side, I found that chickens make great distractions.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Facepunch on October 11, 2015, 05:00:07 PM
I've a broadish suggestion: Tactical treatment of battle wounds
Basically, treatment of wounds sustained in battle gets more realistic. In reality, if your heart gets damaged, you have 10 seconds to a minute before you bleed to death. In game, though, it can take days. I saw somebody mention that earlier. I suggest you greatly increase the rate at which wounds to organs bleed. But add tactical first aid.
Example:
John and Joe are in a gunfight with some raiders, Joe gets shot in the heart and begins to lose blood very rapidly. John can apply tactical first aid (Short treatment time, only need a low medicine skill to do it), to slow the bleeding enough so that Joe won't bleed out before he has a chance to be rescued.
 Maybe have dedicated CLS, who carrys around QuikClot and Saline, or an FAK or something.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Kazkel on October 15, 2015, 07:23:49 AM
So how did i fix the problem of rimworld telling me that some mods were incompatible and corrupted that some people had earlier? nothing in the mods folder besides CCL_User_Releasev0.12.3b, Combat realism core and Combat Realism Defence, along with EdB Mod Order. Note that CCL loads on fine, no errors with EdB Mod Order, and that error only occurs upon loading Combat realism
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Facepunch on October 15, 2015, 08:43:10 AM
So how did i fix the problem of rimworld telling me that some mods were incompatible and corrupted that some people had earlier? nothing in the mods folder besides CCL_User_Releasev0.12.3b, Combat realism core and Combat Realism Defence, along with EdB Mod Order. Note that CCL loads on fine, no errors with EdB Mod Order, and that error only occurs upon loading Combat realism
You tried the obvious and reinstalled the mod? Defence and the core? Also make sure CCL is up to date.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Hague on October 15, 2015, 01:11:48 PM
I've a broadish suggestion: Tactical treatment of battle wounds
Basically, treatment of wounds sustained in battle gets more realistic. In reality, if your heart gets damaged, you have 10 seconds to a minute before you bleed to death. In game, though, it can take days. I saw somebody mention that earlier. I suggest you greatly increase the rate at which wounds to organs bleed. But add tactical first aid.
Example:
John and Joe are in a gunfight with some raiders, Joe gets shot in the heart and begins to lose blood very rapidly. John can apply tactical first aid (Short treatment time, only need a low medicine skill to do it), to slow the bleeding enough so that Joe won't bleed out before he has a chance to be rescued.
 Maybe have dedicated CLS, who carrys around QuikClot and Saline, or an FAK or something.

You can do this right now if you dedicate a sleeping spot on the ground for the wounded person on the battlefield. The Tools for Haul mod will let someone with a backpack carry medicine to use on the battlefield. As for bleeding in combat, and in general, there ought to be a "Blood Clotting" attribute on pawns that affects how quickly they recover from bleeding on their own that can be enhanced by drugs and implants.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: falcongrey on October 16, 2015, 02:18:41 PM
Getting broken link from PA download. Not sure if it is just me or not. The rest works fine.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on October 16, 2015, 04:37:30 PM
Getting broken link from PA download. Not sure if it is just me or not. The rest works fine.

Combat Realism for Project Armory:

Currently unavailable as Project Armory has not updated to A12 yet

A compatibility patch for Project Armory (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1950.0). It comes in two versions, light and regular. Regular has every weapon from PA except the M2HB. Light removes weapons from the pre-WWI era, obscure niche weapons, bolters and variations on the same weapon. I personally recommend the light version for the best gameplay experience. Either one can be further customized using PA's own Kit Switcher tool.


Some people should try this mystical thing called reading. ;)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on October 16, 2015, 07:44:47 PM


Some people should try this mystical thing called reading. ;)

Have a drink, go for a walk, gentleman.... you are sounding off like ninefingers.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on October 16, 2015, 08:06:04 PM


Some people should try this mystical thing called reading. ;)

Have a drink, go for a walk, gentleman.... you are sounding off like ninefingers.
I walk 40m a day and have roughly 2 cappuccinos.

Besides, I'm not nine, I just felt like politely pointing out something to the poor guy/girl.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on October 16, 2015, 09:30:42 PM


Some people should try this mystical thing called reading. ;)

Have a drink, go for a walk, gentleman.... you are sounding off like ninefingers.
I walk 40m a day and have roughly 2 cappuccinos.

Besides, I'm not nine, I just felt like politely pointing out something to the poor guy/girl.

No but that was not polite. It was abrasive, truth.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on October 16, 2015, 10:09:05 PM


Some people should try this mystical thing called reading. ;)

Have a drink, go for a walk, gentleman.... you are sounding off like ninefingers.
I walk 40m a day and have roughly 2 cappuccinos.

Besides, I'm not nine, I just felt like politely pointing out something to the poor guy/girl.

No but that was not polite. It was abrasive, truth.
Polite is relative.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: A Friend on October 17, 2015, 08:39:21 AM
IMO it's a bit snarky. But let's not continue debating about politeness.

Anyways, I think there's an issue with reloading and hunting. My hunter uses a 5 round shotgun and sometimes finishes animals off with the last round. He then reloads and moves onto the next target. The dead animal just gets forbidden and ignored.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: MarvinKosh on October 17, 2015, 11:09:25 AM
Let me just point out that the original message stating that an A12 patch is unavailable for Project Armory was in bold. Bold text is usually important and answers questions preemptively. It goes without saying that you should read the description for the thing you're downloading before you download it. ;)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on October 17, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
yes there is an issue with hunters and reloading, as the reload overrides the haul the dead animal, and the dead animal is left to rot in the field.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: aGuyNamdJesus on October 19, 2015, 01:10:58 PM
Ok, I don't post much here but I found a pretty game breaking bug. I searched the forums for each mod I have (only a small handful) and can't find anything so I will post it here and copy it to each of the others.

I use

Combat Realism CORE
Combat Realism Defence Pack
Community Core Library
Expanded Prosthetics and Organ Engineering
Numbers

All currently up to date and running just fine except for one thing...

Cooking tables are built but never show up. It's like they disappear. Kinda important. Just thought I'd let each mod author know so they may find it if it's something with theres.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: pajok on October 19, 2015, 02:26:42 PM
HI!

Suppression mechanic is EPIC!
Thanks for your hard work!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Arcticpulse on October 20, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
I'm getting this error and a quick search hasn't yielded any results. Any idea as to what went wrong? http://postimg.org/image/r8t11nmov/full/
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NuclearStudent on October 20, 2015, 12:41:30 AM
Ok, I don't post much here but I found a pretty game breaking bug. I searched the forums for each mod I have (only a small handful) and can't find anything so I will post it here and copy it to each of the others.

I use

Combat Realism CORE
Combat Realism Defence Pack
Community Core Library
Expanded Prosthetics and Organ Engineering
Numbers

All currently up to date and running just fine except for one thing...

Cooking tables are built but never show up. It's like they disappear. Kinda important. Just thought I'd let each mod author know so they may find it if it's something with theres.

Go into "options", and check "dev mode." You'll see an error log. Try to build a cooking table and take a screenshot of whatever error messages pop up.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on October 20, 2015, 03:25:54 AM
I'm getting this error and a quick search hasn't yielded any results. Any idea as to what went wrong? http://postimg.org/image/r8t11nmov/full/

From the looks of it you're trying to load CR Defence without CR Core.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Arcticpulse on October 20, 2015, 03:43:38 PM
I'm getting this error and a quick search hasn't yielded any results. Any idea as to what went wrong? http://postimg.org/image/r8t11nmov/full/

From the looks of it you're trying to load CR Defence without CR Core.
Yup, that seems to be the case. Thanks!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: _Zev on October 22, 2015, 05:18:37 AM
When I used this mod my colonist used a hunting rifle but shoots way off the target because of the distance.. Is the mod not compatible with 12D?
Title: asd
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on October 22, 2015, 05:38:22 AM
When I used this mod my colonist used a hunting rifle but shoots way off the target because of the distance.. Is the mod not compatible with 12D?
It's compatible, but hunting has a few issues, especially in wooded areas. The hunting code is set up to always fire from maximum distance, with the CR mod this distance is much larger for some weapons. The problem is that pawns aren't aware of cover when they're hunting, so they'll happily spend a day shooting trees. It's a core game bug/feature, made extra noticeable by CR. The same is (to a lesser extent) true for normal combat. Distances are larger, which means environment and skill play a much larger role.

Quick solution; equip hunters with pistols or other short range weaponry. Hopefully at some point NIA or Tynan will fix the underlying problem in either the mod, or the core game.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: killer117 on October 22, 2015, 05:42:51 AM
Hey is there any way i could get this mod were all it changes are the weapon ammo sizes and reloading, and adds the defences in, cause i love the look of this mod just id like those things as an indipendent thing because im not as much of a fan of the accuracy and bullet damage changes, although i might use them just prefer only small parts
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dryparn on October 22, 2015, 06:01:08 AM
I found a small bug probobly related to the bug above that pawns does not haul killed animals because of reloading.

When you force shooting a non threathening entity the pawn stops shooting after a reload and need to be reordered to shoot.
By non threathening i mean downed enemies and other things that drafted pawns normally needs to be ordered to shoot at.
Title: Re: asd
Post by: _Zev on October 22, 2015, 08:35:47 PM
When I used this mod my colonist used a hunting rifle but shoots way off the target because of the distance.. Is the mod not compatible with 12D?
It's compatible, but hunting has a few issues, especially in wooded areas. The hunting code is set up to always fire from maximum distance, with the CR mod this distance is much larger for some weapons. The problem is that pawns aren't aware of cover when they're hunting, so they'll happily spend a day shooting trees. It's a core game bug/feature, made extra noticeable by CR. The same is (to a lesser extent) true for normal combat. Distances are larger, which means environment and skill play a much larger role.

Quick solution; equip hunters with pistols or other short range weaponry. Hopefully at some point NIA or Tynan will fix the underlying problem in either the mod, or the core game.
Hmm so either play on a map without that much woods or just avoid rifles altogether.. Hmm I love rifles though.. this is tough..
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: DaLoSti on October 22, 2015, 09:53:56 PM
I don't seem to be able to build embrasures or barbed wires. Have these things changed? I know turrets are bought from the trader but are *all* the turrets to be bought from traders?

That came as a bit of a surprise when I started out and was unable to build any defenses other than some deadfall trap and sandbags.

The mods I'm using:
Core
CCL
CCL vanilla tweaks
Clutter
Combat Realism Core
CombatRealism Defence
EdB Prepare Carefully
EdB Mod Order
Miscellaneous HiRes
MAI+
More Factions Spawn
RT Fusebox
Additional Joy Objects V2.60

These are also the order of my mods.

The full extent of this mod wasn't well explained on the first page and I had trouble searching for most of my questions throughout this thread regarding the mechanics after certain updates. But that goes for pretty much all the mods I use. Just letting you know that I did try searching for answers first.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on October 23, 2015, 02:54:01 AM
I found a small bug probobly related to the bug above that pawns does not haul killed animals because of reloading.

When you force shooting a non threathening entity the pawn stops shooting after a reload and need to be reordered to shoot.
By non threathening i mean downed enemies and other things that drafted pawns normally needs to be ordered to shoot at.

All these issues are due to the fact that this is the expected behaviour of the reload job:


Which means whatever the previous job was, it's not stored (due to technical limitations through compatibility with other mods). There are a
few case fixes that require some tinkering with existing systems (make Job "clonable" which it isn't at the moment and which would break all
other mods which add new jobs) though none are perfect.

The desired behaviour would of course be for currentJob to be stored, however storedJob = currentJob stores a pointer which means
when currentJob is set to "reload", storedJob now also contains "reload". To store it you need to make a deep copy of the Job, which is possible
through C# if and only if the method is "clonable" or the class doesn't contain references to other complicated classes (anything but
int, bool etc). Neither are the case with Job, and the alternative is to decide currentJob's job type, do storedJob = new Job() and add every
single part of currentJob to storedJob based on their job type. Still not perfect, because any unknown job type will break the system.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on October 23, 2015, 03:18:39 AM
The hunting job has issue is known and is on the list of things to fix once I start working on the AI overhaul. Right now the problem is that it is basically just "do combat against animal" which in turn means "go to 80% of your maximum range and shoot until the target dies". Right now the only workaround I can recommend is to equip hunters with shotguns or other short-ranged weapons rather than sniper rifles.

To expand on what Alistaire said regarding storing jobs, one possible workaround is to store the type and target of specific jobs and issue new ones after reloading. The current in-dev version does this to store force fire jobs, e.g. pawns would keep shooting at a crashed ship part after reload. It is a somewhat awkward and hacky method to do things so I won't extend it to most jobs but I'll see about including hunting.

I don't seem to be able to build embrasures or barbed wires. Have these things changed? I know turrets are bought from the trader but are *all* the turrets to be bought from traders?

Improvised turrets are made at the machining table, the rest is bought. Embrasures and barbed wire should be available right from the start though through the architect menu. I'm not quite sure what could even be causing such a bug. Do you have CCL 0.12.3 or the new 0.12.4 version? Also, does this happen even with no mods other than CR and CR Defence active?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: DaLoSti on October 23, 2015, 12:55:03 PM
I don't seem to be able to build embrasures or barbed wires. Have these things changed? I know turrets are bought from the trader but are *all* the turrets to be bought from traders?

Improvised turrets are made at the machining table, the rest is bought. Embrasures and barbed wire should be available right from the start though through the architect menu. I'm not quite sure what could even be causing such a bug. Do you have CCL 0.12.3 or the new 0.12.4 version? Also, does this happen even with no mods other than CR and CR Defence active?
[/quote]

It works now. IT did happen with only CR and CR Defence. I also had trouble 'uninstalling' other mods when realizing they were incompatible/outdated.

I just reinstalled everything and started out with whatever mods I knew to be updated for 12d.

Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: xareliusx on October 26, 2015, 04:15:49 AM
Is there anyway to uninstall this mod without completely bricking my save? I love this mod, it drastically changes how I play, but it's not really fitting my current play style for this colony. And I don't want to have to start new as I am really liking this map for my base set up.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LustrousWolf on October 26, 2015, 05:11:43 AM
Will this mod be going into more depth of the human body as to what body parts can get injured? For example someones tongue might get cut by a knife or something. Although I am not sure how you would replace those things if they got destroyed?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: kirotheavenger on October 27, 2015, 10:50:52 AM
when ever I go to load this mod in my rimworld it gives me a 'there was a compatability issue/outdated one of your mods :/
ive installed the community mod thingy and that works fine- another mod I have that uses it works
the message only pops up after I install this mod.

can someone please expain to me what im doing wrong? this mod just sounds so badass :P
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: FurryLovingGuy on October 28, 2015, 07:44:00 PM
when ever I go to load this mod in my rimworld it gives me a 'there was a compatability issue/outdated one of your mods :/
ive installed the community mod thingy and that works fine- another mod I have that uses it works
the message only pops up after I install this mod.

can someone please expain to me what im doing wrong? this mod just sounds so badass :P

I was recently having this problem today. I had the mod running yesterday, but I've been adding and removing mods trying to create a custom feel to the game. Once I was satisfied I try and boot em up, but it refused to work. As I trialed and errored it, I found this to be the problem. I redownled this mod and is reqs, no go. I delete my mod config, no go. How did I eventually fix it?

I redownloads a fresh file of RimWorld and transferred the mods over, not including the old core, and it worked out just fine. To reiterate, get a fresh install, I think the problem is in your old core or something.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Techigai on November 04, 2015, 03:22:54 AM
Was wrestling with this problem today.  Extracting another copy of the game and moving the mods over, excluding the old core, seemed to allow me to load the mods successfully. Why it does this I don't know, just started playing today.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on November 04, 2015, 09:29:57 AM
many mods make changes to the games core, removing the mod does not change the core back to vanilla. That is why you always need a fresh core when changing mods.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on November 04, 2015, 09:51:12 AM
Mods don't modify the core folder. One doesn't have to because overwriting is done through defining the same content in the mod itself.

It is however good practice to remove C:\Users\(YourUserName)\AppData\LocalLow\Ludeon Studios\RimWorld\Config\ModsConfig.xml after removing mod folders.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on November 04, 2015, 10:48:47 AM
Mods don't modify the core folder. One doesn't have to because overwriting is done through defining the same content in the mod itself.

It is however good practice to remove C:\Users\(YourUserName)\AppData\LocalLow\Ludeon Studios\RimWorld\Config\ModsConfig.xml after removing mod folders.

Sorry to disagree, but some of the mods DO modify the core folder, or even replace it with their own version. Good modders do not do that, but others do.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: toric on November 05, 2015, 04:40:23 AM
Was wrestling with this problem today.  Extracting another copy of the game and moving the mods over, excluding the old core, seemed to allow me to load the mods successfully. Why it does this I don't know, just started playing today.

still does not seem to work. i guess i just have to go without this amazing looking mod...
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on November 05, 2015, 05:41:12 AM
Was wrestling with this problem today.  Extracting another copy of the game and moving the mods over, excluding the old core, seemed to allow me to load the mods successfully. Why it does this I don't know, just started playing today.

still does not seem to work. i guess i just have to go without this amazing looking mod...

If you're having problems installing the mod please post a screenshot of your load order and attach your output_log.txt (it is located in the RimWorld914Win_Data folder) from after the issue occurs.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: toric on November 05, 2015, 01:03:10 PM
Was wrestling with this problem today.  Extracting another copy of the game and moving the mods over, excluding the old core, seemed to allow me to load the mods successfully. Why it does this I don't know, just started playing today.

still does not seem to work. i guess i just have to go without this amazing looking mod...

If you're having problems installing the mod please post a screenshot of your load order and attach your output_log.txt (it is located in the RimWorld914Win_Data folder) from after the issue occurs.

I'm on a mac, cursory search did not find the output log. however, i have the screenshots:

also, on another note, will mods that add extra turrets be incompatible with this? for example, More Vanilla Turrets?




[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on November 05, 2015, 03:44:30 PM
Was wrestling with this problem today.  Extracting another copy of the game and moving the mods over, excluding the old core, seemed to allow me to load the mods successfully. Why it does this I don't know, just started playing today.

still does not seem to work. i guess i just have to go without this amazing looking mod...

If you're having problems installing the mod please post a screenshot of your load order and attach your output_log.txt (it is located in the RimWorld914Win_Data folder) from after the issue occurs.

I'm on a mac, cursory search did not find the output log. however, i have the screenshots:

also, on another note, will mods that add extra turrets be incompatible with this? for example, More Vanilla Turrets?

What's up with that CCL install of yours? The latest version should read as "Community Core Library v0.12.4"

Mods that add new turrets should not have any hard incompatibilities but they won't use any of the new features or balancing so unless they were specifically balanced for this mod they probably won't fit in too well.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: toric on November 05, 2015, 04:09:04 PM
Was wrestling with this problem today.  Extracting another copy of the game and moving the mods over, excluding the old core, seemed to allow me to load the mods successfully. Why it does this I don't know, just started playing today.

still does not seem to work. i guess i just have to go without this amazing looking mod...

If you're having problems installing the mod please post a screenshot of your load order and attach your output_log.txt (it is located in the RimWorld914Win_Data folder) from after the issue occurs.

I'm on a mac, cursory search did not find the output log. however, i have the screenshots:

also, on another note, will mods that add extra turrets be incompatible with this? for example, More Vanilla Turrets?

What's up with that CCL install of yours? The latest version should read as "Community Core Library v0.12.4"

Mods that add new turrets should not have any hard incompatibilities but they won't use any of the new features or balancing so unless they were specifically balanced for this mod they probably won't fit in too well.

thanks. i didn't realize that there was another set of folders in the ccl folder. seems to be fixed now.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Peaches on November 07, 2015, 05:12:53 PM
I have been having a problem where when my mortars fire, it makes the noise and it uses up the mortar, but a mortar does not actually come out of the cannon and fire, it seems to only happen to certain mortars..... Anyone have any knowlege on this?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on November 08, 2015, 02:08:45 AM
I have been having a problem where when my mortars fire, it makes the noise and it uses up the mortar, but a mortar does not actually come out of the cannon and fire, it seems to only happen to certain mortars..... Anyone have any knowlege on this?

Please attach your output_log.txt, see my post above for the location. Also, what range (in cells) are you firing the mortar approximately?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Peaches on November 08, 2015, 12:14:26 PM
I have been having a problem where when my mortars fire, it makes the noise and it uses up the mortar, but a mortar does not actually come out of the cannon and fire, it seems to only happen to certain mortars..... Anyone have any knowlege on this?

Please attach your output_log.txt, see my post above for the location. Also, what range (in cells) are you firing the mortar approximately?
Approximately 200-250 cells, when i fire them at 40 cells though they seem to work... They were touching other mortars and walls and were in close proximity to a mountain, would that affect them in any way?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: simon-82 on November 09, 2015, 05:45:08 PM
Hey there NoImageAvailable!

I think a found a bug related to hunting with Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCRReload or Combat_Realism.CompAim.
To reproduce the error, you can find a Savegame and World here:
https://github.com/simon-82/ModVarietyPack/issues/13 (https://github.com/simon-82/ModVarietyPack/issues/13)
Ignore the first comment. It is in the post from Sephyr.

Following scenario:
- An animal is shot down (not dead) and still set to hunting.

- Let a pawn hunt the animal with any weapon that uses Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCRReload or Combat_Realism.CompAim.
This error pops up and the pawn gets stuck in the "Standing" loop:
Code: [Select]
Leas started 10 jobs in 10 ticks. lastJobGiver=
Leas started 10 jobs in one tick. thinkResult=(job=Hunt A=Deer79627 sourceNode=RimWorld.JobGiver_Work) lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_Work
Tried with all modified vanilla weapons from CR.
Especially with pistol and shotgun, as these usually work with hunting.

- If I give the pawn any weapon that uses Verb_Shoot he goes and kills the animal. Give him the other weapon back, immediately back to the error loop.

I think the pawn tries to find a spot from where to shoot, but can't find one. The debug console at least says something about position in the chain.

Greetings!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: toric on November 09, 2015, 09:21:11 PM
anyone found an effective way to hunt with CR? the best way I've found it to use some sort of shotgun type weapon or other low ranged weapon. i use the combat shotgun from rimfire.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on November 09, 2015, 09:54:28 PM
Hunting with a pistol, or shotgun is my preferred method. Needs to be a short ranged weapon.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: mokonasakura on November 10, 2015, 09:46:41 PM
Using it but it seems to have made the game extremely easy. Main problem is the AI doesn't seem to understand what the new weapons can do, such as snipers having an incredibly long range but they wont fire until you get close.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on November 11, 2015, 07:05:30 AM
Using it but it seems to have made the game extremely easy. Main problem is the AI doesn't seem to understand what the new weapons can do, such as snipers having an incredibly long range but they wont fire until you get close.

The vanilla AI is a known problem. Its basically just form blob -> find firing position at 80% of your max range -> shoot until target is dead. I am currently taking an extended break from Rimworld but once I get back to it one of the main things on my list is a complete AI overhaul with intelligent pathing, tactics, etc.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: bluestrike15 on November 14, 2015, 08:17:43 PM
I seem to be having problems installing, Its a comparability problem but the only mods I start with is the CCL with vanilla tweaks, Mod order, and this mod.

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Mechanoid Hivemind on November 14, 2015, 09:52:14 PM
I have been trying to get these to work but cant and i am VERY infuriated, and i am using this loosely, its been several weeks and this still isnt fixed am i using the wrong CCL or what is going on?(http://puu.sh/llU4Z/948eda4dbc.png)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on November 14, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
I have been trying to get these to work but cant and i am VERY infuriated, and i am using this loosely, its been several weeks and this still isnt fixed am i using the wrong CCL or what is going on?[im g]http://puu.sh/llU4Z/948eda4dbc.png[/img]
Full outlog?

Edit: Seems like the CR dll is missing, or the CCL dll is missing causing the CR dll to fail when loading.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Avenger5998 on November 15, 2015, 01:57:55 AM
Do you think this mod would be compatible with [A12] Expanded Prosthetics and Organ Engineering ?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on November 15, 2015, 06:11:10 AM
I seem to be having problems installing, Its a comparability problem but the only mods I start with is the CCL with vanilla tweaks, Mod order, and this mod.

What exactly is the problem?

Do you think this mod would be compatible with [A12] Expanded Prosthetics and Organ Engineering ?

There are minor incompatibilities if you load EPOE after CR. I've sent the author a compatibility patch ages ago but it seems they haven't updated their OP, so here's a Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjyn5j3k9honpxr/CombatRealism%20EPOE.rar?dl=0
Load after both CR and EPOE
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: bluestrike15 on November 15, 2015, 12:08:19 PM
The problem is when I input those mods and click close I get "Recovery from incompatible or corrupted mods errors" message box which then unloads all mods I've managed to get working to that point.

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Avenger5998 on November 15, 2015, 12:30:41 PM
Quote
There are minor incompatibilities if you load EPOE after CR. I've sent the author a compatibility patch ages ago but it seems they haven't updated their OP, so here's a Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjyn5j3k9honpxr/CombatRealism%20EPOE.rar?dl=0
Load after both CR and EPOE

Thanks so much for the help, these two mods are going to make my next rimworld campaign much more interesting.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on November 15, 2015, 01:08:22 PM
You're using CCL v0.12.4 but the current version of CR uses CCL v0.12.3

Not sure that's the problem though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on November 15, 2015, 02:37:05 PM
You're using CCL v0.12.4 but the current version of CR uses CCL v0.12.3

Not sure that's the problem though.
CCL 0.12.4 is backwards compatible with all CCL 0.12.X. All 0.12.X are for alpha 12.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TheGentlmen on November 15, 2015, 02:37:27 PM
The problem is when I input those mods and click close I get "Recovery from incompatible or corrupted mods errors" message box which then unloads all mods I've managed to get working to that point.
Outlog?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: bluestrike15 on November 17, 2015, 08:33:46 PM
False Alarm. After re downloading the mod It is working just fine along with Rimfire's compatibility download. It might have been that some of the parts didn't go threw the first time around. More than likely thats something on my side of things.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Avenger5998 on November 21, 2015, 11:06:20 AM
While using the Defense module, I can't build the base turrets. Is that intended? I read the description of the mod and it said that the vanilla guns would still be able to be built, but the new ones would have to be bought.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on November 21, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
While using the Defense module, I can't build the base turrets. Is that intended? I read the description of the mod and it said that the vanilla guns would still be able to be built, but the new ones would have to be bought.

The improvised turret has been moved to the machining table.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Avenger5998 on November 21, 2015, 04:15:42 PM
Quote
The improvised turret has been moved to the machining table.

Thanks for the information. Amazing mod so far by the way.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 08, 2015, 02:04:26 PM
I have a strange problem with mortals. I've been CR and CR defence and noticed that mortal shells move extremely slow, little more than 1 cell/second.

Not only that, but I've downloaded Rimfire recently, and noticed that the grenades the launcher shoots behave the exact same way.

All other weapons, including CR defence turrets (the big one too), seem to behave as intended.

Is there a reason for that behaviour? Any way to fix it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 08, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
Travel times depend on the steepness of the trajectory. For the mortar that means engaging closer targets produces longer flight times since it fires in a steep arc. It also has multiple charges with different muzzle velocities so you probably just fired close to one of the breaking points and got a very steep trajectory of 70-80° or something. The grenade launcher is just comparatively slow in general.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 08, 2015, 03:00:29 PM
Travel times depend on the steepness of the trajectory. For the mortar that means engaging closer targets produces longer flight times since it fires in a steep arc. It also has multiple charges with different muzzle velocities so you probably just fired close to one of the breaking points and got a very steep trajectory of 70-80° or something. The grenade launcher is just comparatively slow in general.

MY MISTAKE regarding the grenade launcher; I've set <flyOverhead> "true", which resulted in the speed drop due to this angle thing.

I'm starting to understand the mechanics behind it, still, it makes very little sense to me.
It's not my place to tell what should and should not be, so I'll just ask:

is there an easy way to reduce, or remove this effect without setting <flyOverhead> "false"?



Now I'll rant a bit;

Mortal's max range is 700, that's over twice the size of the maps I'm playing on. That's not a problem, but I do not understand why would anyone point it for example 75° upwards to target something 350 tiles away, when 15° would be the desired angle, which has the same range, but essentially reduces traveling time by 3/4.

That is, unless the target is behind a wall.
Then a 75° would be preferred, but then again, for maximum range (700 here) 45° is the angle, whit which it would be impossible to hit anything behind the wall, but the wall itself. This feature doesn't exist in the game, so IMO it's unreasonable to use high angle shots for close-range, especially without any obstacles in the way.

Especially when my crippled pawn can fire the mortar, run to the targeted location with peg legs, eat his last meal and die from the just-arriving shell.

As it is, I might just set <flyOverhead> "false" for every weapon that has it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on December 08, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
This decision was made because there is no reason for any weapon besides a mortar to have <flyOverhead> set to true. CR is hardcoded to always use low flying arcs UNLESS flyOverhead is true and only in that case will high flying arcs be used. Mortars don't fire much under 40 degrees and because "we could not be asked" to implement that, it was left as it is now.

The design choice is rationalized quite well in my opinion but of course whatever you were trying to do by setting flyOverhead to true in CR will not work. I don't know why you would want Rimfire grenade launchers to fire overhead since CR already implements projectile heights and hitchecks will only be performed in sensible locations due to that.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 08, 2015, 03:51:35 PM
Like you said yourself, the reason to fire at such a steep angle is to be able to clear obstructions at close range. The defining characteristic of a mortar is that it fires at elevations of 40°+, it doesn't have the maximum range of a howitzer but it also doesn't have the minimum range either so when you're firing at close range (which as far as artillery is concerned includes everything in Rimworld, a howitzer would have a minimum range larger than the largest map) a mortar becomes the superior choice because it provides the ability for indirect fire were other artillery pieces would not.

See also this image for illustration:
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/fig7-3.gif)

Now you could ask why the mortar can't use direct fire against targets it has line of sight on and the answer is that a) mortars due to their construction typically can't be aimed below 40° or so b) it would be kinda difficult to code and c) because that's basically what the cannon turret does already.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 08, 2015, 05:35:10 PM
The design choice is rationalized quite well in my opinion but of course whatever you were trying to do by setting flyOverhead to true in CR will not work. I don't know why you would want Rimfire grenade launchers to fire overhead since CR already implements projectile heights and hitchecks will only be performed in sensible locations due to that.

Whatever I'm trying to do? Well, I'm trying to give myself the ability to fight mechanoids of course! I've already changed the projectile to shoot EMP nades. Them being as tough as they are, equipped with weapons with more range and damage, I've lost 7 and managed to recover 2 colonists out of 11, against 4 centipedes and 6-7 scythers, after an "ancient ship" event.
Not sure which one is worse, schythers essentially one-shotting my colonists from behind cover, or centipedes downing them in one burst.
I'm changing that, that's what I'm doing.

Back to mortars; I had 4 (since I could not build howitzers [not sure if possible, even if it is I wasn't there yet], and not one trader sold them), but those nimble centipedes dodged the mortar shells effortlessly. Not using mortals, or only using them against sieges would be fine by me, but with the new flyOverhead, I've lost my best card against centipedes, and it's quite frustrating.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 08, 2015, 05:53:50 PM
The defining characteristic of a mortar is that it fires at elevations of 40°+
Yes, and another defining characteristic of a mortar is that it can be easily carried by a single person. The reason for them usually not being able to fire below 40 degrees safely is because the ground supports it, below 40 degrees it becomes unstable. At least generally, because there are different kinds of mortars. In Rimworld, we have a 2x2 tiles big mortar emplacement that doesn't look like, nor acts like your regular mortar.

No matter, I'm not here to tell you how it works or how you should change things, I'm here to ask if it's possible to change, without bathing myself in confusing computer magic. A question you have not answered.

Though based on what Alistaire said, I'd guess it is not.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on December 08, 2015, 07:20:28 PM
The design choice is rationalized quite well in my opinion but of course whatever you were trying to do by setting flyOverhead to true in CR will not work. I don't know why you would want Rimfire grenade launchers to fire overhead since CR already implements projectile heights and hitchecks will only be performed in sensible locations due to that.

Whatever I'm trying to do? Well, I'm trying to give myself the ability to fight mechanoids of course! I've already changed the projectile to shoot EMP nades. Them being as tough as they are, equipped with weapons with more range and damage, I've lost 7 and managed to recover 2 colonists out of 11, against 4 centipedes and 6-7 scythers, after an "ancient ship" event.
Not sure which one is worse, schythers essentially one-shotting my colonists from behind cover, or centipedes downing them in one burst.
I'm changing that, that's what I'm doing.

Back to mortars; I had 4 (since I could not build howitzers [not sure if possible, even if it is I wasn't there yet], and not one trader sold them), but those nimble centipedes dodged the mortar shells effortlessly. Not using mortals, or only using them against sieges would be fine by me, but with the new flyOverhead, I've lost my best card against centipedes, and it's quite frustrating.

Sounds like you avoid using the emp mortars, that have a huge range of effect.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 09, 2015, 04:55:56 AM
Whatever I'm trying to do? Well, I'm trying to give myself the ability to fight mechanoids of course! I've already changed the projectile to shoot EMP nades. Them being as tough as they are, equipped with weapons with more range and damage, I've lost 7 and managed to recover 2 colonists out of 11, against 4 centipedes and 6-7 scythers, after an "ancient ship" event.
Not sure which one is worse, schythers essentially one-shotting my colonists from behind cover, or centipedes downing them in one burst.
I'm changing that, that's what I'm doing.

Back to mortars; I had 4 (since I could not build howitzers [not sure if possible, even if it is I wasn't there yet], and not one trader sold them), but those nimble centipedes dodged the mortar shells effortlessly. Not using mortals, or only using them against sieges would be fine by me, but with the new flyOverhead, I've lost my best card against centipedes, and it's quite frustrating.

If you're trying to nerf Mechanoids, why aren't you changing, you know, the actual Mechanoids? I'm currently working on other projects but once I get back to CR one of the things on my to-do list is revisit Mechanoid balance.

CR Defence has a cannon turret sold by combat suppliers, it does direct fire and is highly accurate. There is no howitzers in this mod because their minimum range would extend over the entire map. They'd be relegated to direct fire so they would just be a cannon turret in every way except people would keep asking why it can't do indirect fire.

Yes, and another defining characteristic of a mortar is that it can be easily carried by a single person. The reason for them usually not being able to fire below 40 degrees safely is because the ground supports it, below 40 degrees it becomes unstable. At least generally, because there are different kinds of mortars. In Rimworld, we have a 2x2 tiles big mortar emplacement that doesn't look like, nor acts like your regular mortar.

No, only very light mortars can be carried by one person, all the heavier ones are either crew-served or mounted on vehicles. The Rimworld mortar might resemble an 18th century mortar more than a modern day one but that hardly matters considering the definition of a mortar still is an artillery piece that fires low-velocity projectiles in a high arc.

Quote
No matter, I'm not here to tell you how it works or how you should change things, I'm here to ask if it's possible to change, without bathing myself in confusing computer magic. A question you have not answered.

Though based on what Alistaire said, I'd guess it is not.

I thought Alistaire answered that question sufficiently. CR uses the flyOverhead tag to determine whether a weapon fires in a high or low arc, changing it would require delving into the code base and make changes to the verb code. If you have knowledge of C# you could do it with relatively little effort but if you want to count that as "computer magic" then no, it is not possible.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on December 09, 2015, 12:01:22 PM
Literally the only difference between flyOverhead and non-flyOverhead is whether thick roofs are hit and what arc the projectile flies in. EVERY projectile can freely intercept ANYTHING and the only additional check is whether that intercept is at the correct height or not.

There is no reason to add flyOverhead to weaponry, basically. I don't get how it would at all fix your problem with the strength of mechanoids (which are resilient to many damage types).
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 09, 2015, 12:08:28 PM
If you're trying to nerf Mechanoids, why aren't you changing, you know, the actual Mechanoids? I'm currently working on other projects but once I get back to CR one of the things on my to-do list is revisit Mechanoid balance.

I'm not trying to nerf Mechanoids, probably that's why.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 09, 2015, 12:14:47 PM
Literally the only difference between flyOverhead and non-flyOverhead is whether thick roofs are hit and what arc the projectile flies in. EVERY projectile can freely intercept ANYTHING and the only additional check is whether that intercept is at the correct height or not.

There is no reason to add flyOverhead to weaponry, basically. I don't get how it would at all fix your problem with the strength of mechanoids (which are resilient to many damage types).

Look, I might not be able to tinker with codes, but observation is something I can do.
Without flyOverhead, I couldn't shoot grenades over walls. With it, I could.
Again, I do not know what's in the code and how it should work, but those are the results I've observed.

The benefits are self-explanatory.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on December 10, 2015, 01:07:35 PM
Whatever I'm trying to do? Well, I'm trying to give myself the ability to fight mechanoids of course! I've already changed the projectile to shoot EMP nades. Them being as tough as they are, equipped with weapons with more range and damage, I've lost 7 and managed to recover 2 colonists out of 11, against 4 centipedes and 6-7 scythers, after an "ancient ship" event.
Not sure which one is worse, schythers essentially one-shotting my colonists from behind cover, or centipedes downing them in one burst.
I'm changing that, that's what I'm doing.
u probably just shouldnt fight em in big open fields with fragile humans, but lure them in close quarters and use some EMP nades and tactics. or u can shell em with 120mm and AGS, they'll never have the chance.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: dareddevil7 on December 10, 2015, 04:34:55 PM
You know what you need to go with suppression? Humanoids pissing their pants in fear when they hear a large caliber round
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: eatKenny on December 10, 2015, 06:26:48 PM
can you make a gun malfunction/jam? after every burst the guns have a certain possibility(related to gun typ and quality) to jam, which will take extra time to fire the next burst.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 11, 2015, 07:38:31 AM
Look, I might not be able to tinker with codes, but observation is something I can do.
Without flyOverhead, I couldn't shoot grenades over walls. With it, I could.
Again, I do not know what's in the code and how it should work, but those are the results I've observed.

The benefits are self-explanatory.

Vanilla functionality of flyOverhead is that it makes a projectile ignore all collisions and lets weapons target things without line of sight. CR extends this by making it also cause weapons to fire in a high arc since it is assumed the only weapon using the tag would be the mortar. That's all there really is to it.

can you make a gun malfunction/jam? after every burst the guns have a certain possibility(related to gun typ and quality) to jam, which will take extra time to fire the next burst.

Changing the verb code to call some custom function after firing is easy enough, the tricky part would be actually writing the jamming behavior. You'd need some formula to determine malfunction chance, possibly add a variable to the weapon def itself and write a new job. But it is definitely possible, yes.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: eatKenny on December 11, 2015, 01:18:41 PM
Changing the verb code to call some custom function after firing is easy enough, the tricky part would be actually writing the jamming behavior. You'd need some formula to determine malfunction chance, possibly add a variable to the weapon def itself and write a new job. But it is definitely possible, yes.

i already thought it through:
every firearm has it's own base jam chance <JamChance>, for example AK-47 has <JamChance>0.5</JamChance>, which means after every shot AK-47 has 0.5% base chance for jam, M16 has <JamChance>2</JamChance> means M16 has 2% chance for jam. the quality of the firearm will effect the jam chance:

awful: x5
shoddy: x3
poor: x2
normal: x1
good: x0.7
superior: x0.5
excellent: x0.3
masterpiece: x0.2
Legendary: x0.1

that means, after each shot, an awful AK-47 has an actuall jam chance 0.5x5=2.5%, as a Legendary AK-47 has 0.5x0.1=0.05% actuall jam chance.

and for unjamming it's like reloading which is already in this mod, takes a random amount of ticks like between 60 to 240 ticks. and if the last bullet in magazine causes jam the shooter will firstly unjam and then reload.

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dr. Z on December 19, 2015, 07:11:09 PM
Is this mod compatible with EdB Interface UI? Because I get an NullReferenceExeption about some "Rimworld.SquadAI.Something.BrainTick".

If I start a new colony and/or planet I don't get an exeption but the weapons won't fire after aiming...
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 20, 2015, 04:41:38 AM
Is this mod compatible with EdB Interface UI? Because I get an NullReferenceExeption about some "Rimworld.SquadAI.Something.BrainTick".

If I start a new colony and/or planet I don't get an exeption but the weapons won't fire after aiming...

I've been using EdB UI myself and never had any problems with it, the error you get is a result of loading an existing colony with a mod that makes changes to ThinkTrees. Not sure about the other problem, can you enable dev mode in the options and pull up the output log to see if any errors are thrown?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dr. Z on December 20, 2015, 05:25:22 AM
The moment the weapon is meant to shoot there's an error reading: "Exeption ticking Kramer: System.InvalidCastExeption: Cannot cast from source to destination type. at Combat Realism.Verb ShootCR.TrvCastShot() [0x00000] in <filenmae inknown>:0" (Screenshot is poor quality so I'm writing instead of uploading).

The counter is also continuously counting upwards.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 20, 2015, 08:04:18 AM
The moment the weapon is meant to shoot there's an error reading: "Exeption ticking Kramer: System.InvalidCastExeption: Cannot cast from source to destination type. at Combat Realism.Verb ShootCR.TrvCastShot() [0x00000] in <filenmae inknown>:0" (Screenshot is poor quality so I'm writing instead of uploading).

The counter is also continuously counting upwards.

What weapon and what other mods do you have?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dr. Z on December 20, 2015, 11:30:52 AM
This was a survival rifle.

These are my mods:
    EdBModOrder
    Community Core Library
    AlphaMuffalo1.9
    Ancient Amulets V1.01
    CaveworldFlora
    Craftable Medicines
    Community Core Library - Vanilla Tweaks
    EdBInterface
    ExpandedProsthetics&amp;OrganEngineering
    Fences
    LT_Brighten
    LT_DoorMat
    LT_RimEffect
    MetalBurnsSlower
    Modular Tables
    More Vanilla Turrets
    Pawn State Icons
    PowerSwitch
    PrisonImprovements
    Realistic Gun Sounds
    RecycleApparel
    RTFTJ
    Stonecutting Tweak
    StorageSearch-1.0
    VeinMiner
    Weapon Effects

+ Combat Realism and the EPOE patch
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 20, 2015, 11:46:17 AM
The error you're getting is a result of Weapon Effects overriding changes made by CR. The mods are currently incompatible, you'll have to use one or the other.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dr. Z on December 20, 2015, 11:57:38 AM
Well that's to bad. I was hoping they were compatible. Anyway it's a really cool mod you made I'm definitely gonna try out :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on December 20, 2015, 02:12:54 PM
Well that's to bad. I was hoping they were compatible.
actually it was mentioned in WE thread.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Bitterholz on December 21, 2015, 08:08:52 AM
HI, I got a problem where combat realism would not Load on Alpha 0.12.914
Im new to modding Rimworld so If i should provide logs or else please note me where to find them.

I tried all load orders, have all the dependecies eg. can't imagine what went wrong
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on December 21, 2015, 02:19:15 PM
dunno if it has been reported (couldnt be arsed reading 41 pages) but i've encountered this:
when i load CR for the first time and start playing immediately, there is no reload button in pawn's order tab. everything stil works fine, pawns reload by themselves. Restarting the game fixes it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: TLHeart on December 21, 2015, 03:25:36 PM
dunno if it has been reported (couldnt be arsed reading 41 pages) but i've encountered this:
when i load CR for the first time and start playing immediately, there is no reload button in pawn's order tab. everything stil works fine, pawns reload by themselves. Restarting the game fixes it.

Sounds like you activated the mod and started playing. Anytime you activate a mod, it is good practice to exit out of rimworld completely, then start rimworld again, so that all the changes are loaded correctly from the start. That is what happens when you restarted the game.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 21, 2015, 06:11:10 PM
HI, I got a problem where combat realism would not Load on Alpha 0.12.914
Im new to modding Rimworld so If i should provide logs or else please note me where to find them.

I tried all load orders, have all the dependecies eg. can't imagine what went wrong

Well, you could start by describing your problem since "would not load" could mean any number of things.

dunno if it has been reported (couldnt be arsed reading 41 pages) but i've encountered this:
when i load CR for the first time and start playing immediately, there is no reload button in pawn's order tab. everything stil works fine, pawns reload by themselves. Restarting the game fixes it.

Any time you open the mod menu you should restart the game afterwards. It has been known to cause all kinds of crazy issues otherwise.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on December 22, 2015, 10:33:29 PM
HI, I got a problem where combat realism would not Load on Alpha 0.12.914
Im new to modding Rimworld so If i should provide logs or else please note me where to find them.

I tried all load orders, have all the dependecies eg. can't imagine what went wrong

Not sure I can be of much help but:
Are you sure the mod is not in double folders?
It should look something like this (emphasis on something);
...\RimworldXXXX\Mods\CombatRealism\About (where "XXXX" stands for the release, A12d for example)
if you see something like;
...\RimworldXXXX\Mods\CombatRealism\CombatRealism\About
then it's the problem.

As for the log, it's the
output_log.txt
in
...\RimworldXXXX\RimWorldYYYWin_Data
folder, where "YYY" stands for...sssomething. A number. Not sure what it indicates.
Attach it so modders might be able to help you.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 30, 2015, 06:21:04 PM
So I am now officially back from my long Rimworld vacation and development of this mod has resumed once again. As a heads up, here is my current roadmap:

- Version 1.5 will feature a much needed tightening of balance for the existing mechanics including aiming accuracy, armor and suppression as well as miscellaneous other balance adjustments and quality of life improvements. Additionally, it will feature manual hunkering, a new aimed/snapshot mechanic and artillery spotting. It will likely also feature a number of other smaller additions.

It will also feature a rebalance to the health system with the focus moving away from destroyed organs providing instant kills and instead aiming for a "soft kill" system. What that means is that a shot to the heart won't be instantly fatal anymore, but it will cause extreme bleeding to the tune of death within an ingame hour or less. Such wounds would require immediate evacuation and treatment to survive and will be very likely to leave permanent damage.

This is intended to do two things. On one side, add an additional element of tension to gunfights on your own side as you have to choose between maintaining an effective defense or pulling pawns off to cover the evacuation of your wounded. On the other side it should make post-battle clean up more interesting as you have to decide which prisoners are worth taking and which ones to leave behind as you won't be able to provide medical attention to everyone in time.

- Version 1.6 will be focused around introducing a proper ammo system. The details aren't set in stone so far but the idea is to have different ammo types for each weapon with unique properties, e.g. armor-piercing, hollow point, incendiary, etc. It would be managed through a tab similar to the outfit system wherein you can define what types of ammo a pawn should carry and in what quantities (e.g. 200 FMJ bullets, 60 armor-piercing, etc.) with the pawns automatically filling up their stock. Regular small arms ammo would be plentiful, carried in large quantities and easy to acquire while ammo for heavy weapons such as automatic grenade launchers would be more expensive.

The goal here is to provide a balancing mechanism to heavy weapons such as miniguns and grenade launchers by attaching a cost to their employment while keeping micromanagement to a minimum. The player should only ever have to worry about the big picture of making sure his colony is stocked with ammo, never with making sure an individual pawn is adequately supplied (except in special cases, such as running out of ammo mid-battle).

Furthermore this version will feature an overhaul to the grenade system. Instead of being a weapon, grenades will be equipable items pawns carry in their inventory in addition to their main weapon, allowing pawns to carry a main weapon while employing frag/EMP grenades at tactically opportune moments.

- Version 1.7 will focus on AI. Not only will raiders learn to use all of the above additions effectively, it will also overhaul the way raids work. Instead of being random zerg rushes raids will have clearly defined objectives and employ tactics accordingly. A group of tribals might stage a diversionary attack on one front to draw your attention while an infiltration team breaches your perimeter elsewhere and burns down your crops. A group of pirates might deploy a mortar and spotter to provide fire support to an assault force attacking your defences. When faced with a killbox raiders would not rush blindly into a killzone, instead opting to lob grenades from behind the entry way.

It will also feature a leadership system wherein the presence of high-level enemies will enable advanced tactics. A raid consisting of only low level goons would behave much like vanilla, blindly rushing into enemy defences while a raid lead by a pirate boss would employ a vast variety of tactical maneuvers and intelligently use feints, overwatch, suppression, sniping, flanking and heavy weapons to pound you.

After this version is released I will consider this mod to be feature complete. I will no longer work on adding more content and further releases will be to address balancing issues and bugs only. As of right now I have begun work on rebalancing and the aimed/snapshot system and I am currently aiming to release this version sometime late January to early February.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: arl85 on December 31, 2015, 02:47:05 AM
So I am now officially back from my long Rimworld vacation and development of this mod has resumed once again. As a heads up, here is my current roadmap:
...

After this version is released I will consider this mod to be feature complete. I will no longer work on adding more content and further releases will be to address balancing issues and bugs only
wow! it sounds very very interesting. Maybe one day it could be integrated in vanilla, would be fantastic!

Not sure if anybody reported it, but I'm unable to see "range circle" of some weapons:
gun is ok, I can see range, but survival rifle has no range displayed.
At first I thought range is bigger than visible area, but then I checked and range is 67 squares, so I expect to see the range circle somewhere.
The same happens with minigun: the "minimum firing distance" circle is visible, but maximum one is hidden.

I tried with just CCL and CR, and eveb restarted the game after enabling mod, but range is still missing.

Another small thing is that it seems (not 100% sure, I just saw it yesterday, but I had several mods active) that artillery shell is craftable both at machining table and the smithing bench
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on December 31, 2015, 04:26:49 AM
Not sure if anybody reported it, but I'm unable to see "range circle" of some weapons:
gun is ok, I can see range, but survival rifle has no range displayed.
At first I thought range is bigger than visible area, but then I checked and range is 67 squares, so I expect to see the range circle somewhere.
The same happens with minigun: the "minimum firing distance" circle is visible, but maximum one is hidden.

I tried with just CCL and CR, and eveb restarted the game after enabling mod, but range is still missing.

Another small thing is that it seems (not 100% sure, I just saw it yesterday, but I had several mods active) that artillery shell is craftable both at machining table and the smithing bench

The game is hardcoded not to display circles beyond 50 cells or so. You can see this when adjusting the ingredient search radius on a workbench, if you increase it too far eventually the circle disappears. The artillery shells being craftable from two tables is also a vanilla thing.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: akiceabear on January 02, 2016, 12:04:56 AM
Sounds great!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Skissor on January 02, 2016, 08:50:00 AM
I just wanted to say that I've tried this mod again and again and I was never happy about how the new system handled with other mods. :( If you activate this mod many others they either become too strong or too weak. This is not a criticism, just wanted to say it. Thanks for this awesome mod!!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on January 12, 2016, 02:12:47 PM
Additionally, it will feature manual hunkering, a new aimed/snapshot mechanic
ideally, it would be nice to have a mode switcher like "no fire/snapshot/aimed".
i really feel that there is need for "no shooting" mode for some situations.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 12, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Additionally, it will feature manual hunkering, a new aimed/snapshot mechanic
ideally, it would be nice to have a mode switcher like "no fire/snapshot/aimed".
i really feel that there is need for "no shooting" mode for some situations.

The current iteration has a toggle for snapshot burst, aimed burst and aimed single shot but the hold fire toggle is actually a good point. I'll probably add it as a separate toggle to the upcoming release.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Crazytoast42 on January 20, 2016, 07:42:11 PM
I can't seem to get this mod to actually work. It says it's incompatible or broken and won't let me activate it. I'm using the /very/ latest version (914) of Rimworld.

What's up?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on January 21, 2016, 11:46:47 PM
I like the sound of the 'soft kill' system the most. It was always a thing with me on why most wounds where either instant-death or took days to kill. Plus, the fact that we can have heart transplants at the ready but never actually get to use them.

Though, a question: How are you planning to have pawns choose ammo? Will they do it on their own like use armor-piercing for mechanoids, normal for people, etc?

Also, I was thinking, won't it be cool if bullets could penetrate obstacles? Like, if the bullet is 'powerful' enough and the obstacle is weak enough, the bullet will punch right through it, loosing some velocity on the way though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 22, 2016, 04:51:37 AM
I can't seem to get this mod to actually work. It says it's incompatible or broken and won't let me activate it. I'm using the /very/ latest version (914) of Rimworld.

What's up?

Go to your Rimworld folder and open Rimworld914Win_Data, post the output_log.txt here.

Though, a question: How are you planning to have pawns choose ammo? Will they do it on their own like use armor-piercing for mechanoids, normal for people, etc?

The details of the ammo system aren't all 100% hammered out yet but my first idea would be to make a toggle to  select any of the currently carried ammo types and the pawn will load them on his next reload.

Quote
Also, I was thinking, won't it be cool if bullets could penetrate obstacles? Like, if the bullet is 'powerful' enough and the obstacle is weak enough, the bullet will punch right through it, loosing some velocity on the way though.

I've had some ideas for a system like that in the past and it would definitely be possible, but never really gave it priority, mainly because it didn't really change much from a gameplay perspective (it would just make the already powerful bullets more powerful and the already good cover like sandbags and chunks more protective). It might make it into the ammo update to add some depth to the ammo and cover systems (i.e. don't use a wooden wall for cover against enemies with penetrating ammo).
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Headshotkill on January 22, 2016, 09:55:01 AM
Has anyone actually experimented with manned-turrets, they don't work.

Colonist who man them won't fire at hostiles, tribes people just walk up to it and kill the turret while the someone man's it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 22, 2016, 11:59:09 AM
Has anyone actually experimented with manned-turrets, they don't work.

Colonist who man them won't fire at hostiles, tribes people just walk up to it and kill the turret while the someone man's it.

You probably ran into an issue with suppression. Currently, pawns manning a turret will just stand around doing nothing if they get suppressed instead of hunkering. Fixing that bug is on my to-do list for the next release.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Headshotkill on January 22, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
Has anyone actually experimented with manned-turrets, they don't work.

Colonist who man them won't fire at hostiles, tribes people just walk up to it and kill the turret while the someone man's it.

You probably ran into an issue with suppression. Currently, pawns manning a turret will just stand around doing nothing if they get suppressed instead of hunkering. Fixing that bug is on my to-do list for the next release.

Good to hear, I'd imagine turrets have a small shield mounted on them to protect the gunner. Otherwise if it was just a gun on a stick you might as well carry like a rifle.

Though I must mention that this same problem happened when a group of tribals, only armed with melee weapons attacked.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 22, 2016, 03:06:33 PM
Though I must mention that this same problem happened when a group of tribals, only armed with melee weapons attacked.

In that case that sounds like some new bug. Can you post a screenshot of your base layout with some description of the circumstances under which the issue occured?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Entropy147 on January 22, 2016, 03:45:30 PM
Question: If limited ammo is introduced will you have to purchase it from a trader or will you be able to craft it?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Headshotkill on January 22, 2016, 05:24:19 PM
Though I must mention that this same problem happened when a group of tribals, only armed with melee weapons attacked.

In that case that sounds like some new bug. Can you post a screenshot of your base layout with some description of the circumstances under which the issue occured?

(http://s14.postimg.org/n3mkuhn0d/screenshot28.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/n3mkuhn0d/)

It's a very small base, defenses are sandbags surounded by barbed-wire. Turrets have embrasures around them to protect them better.
It did some testing spawning tribal raids and changing the situation and it seems that they do fire, but it's extremely slow.

When the turrets focus on one enemy it takes so much time for them to begin shooting that the enemy already reached the sandbags, if there are multiple enemies storming forward the turret seems to twitch around, not knowing on who to focus first which results in it not firing.

If it does eventually shoot in rare occasions, the small burst of three shots is most of the time not enough to bring someone down, the 6 second cool down of the turret itself is just the last nail in the coffin for it's effectivity.


I tested with turrets and other pawns defending with pistols, they did most of the work, turrets alone testing with 5 enemies storming forward resulted in one burst from two turrets AT MOST.
I also saw wether shooting experience seems to be tied into this system but it doesn't seem to matter, wether a high skilled shooter mans it or a rookie.


The status of the pawn manning the turret usually says 'Manning turret', though very rarely it says 'Watching for targets'.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Tatte on January 22, 2016, 06:36:58 PM
Doesn't Work for me? And the install steps don't make sense to me? Please Help!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Crazytoast42 on January 22, 2016, 07:08:58 PM
Ahhh, I feel silly. I forgot the CCL mod. >.<
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16599.0
Skimmed over the download part, didn't realize I needed it. Took a better peek and figured that out.
Thanks!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 23, 2016, 02:58:52 AM
(http://s14.postimg.org/n3mkuhn0d/screenshot28.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/n3mkuhn0d/)

Those don't look like CR turrets, I take it they're from some other mod or modpack? If so I'm afraid I can't give you any support for those since I don't know what those mods did or changed that could cause such behavior.

Doesn't Work for me? And the install steps don't make sense to me? Please Help!

I would've thought the install instructions are pretty straight forward, what is it that you don't understand?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Headshotkill on January 23, 2016, 03:21:02 AM
I looked it up, the turrets are from 'Superior Crafting', a special version tweaked to work with A12.

I did some test with turrets provided by your mod and those worked perfectly so you don't have to worry about it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Spare74 on January 24, 2016, 10:01:37 AM
I have a problem:
I downloaded the Community Core Library, activate it first and it works fine.
But when I activate Combat Realism I get
(http://i.imgur.com/3vnowLZ.png)

I'm running the last version 0.12.914.
Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Headshotkill on January 24, 2016, 02:27:59 PM
I have a problem:
I downloaded the Community Core Library, activate it first and it works fine.
But when I activate Combat Realism I get
(http://i.imgur.com/3vnowLZ.png)

I'm running the last version 0.12.914.
Am I doing something wrong?

I could solve that by placing Combat realism under or above CCL, using EDB mod order. Play around a bit with which mods start first and could work.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 25, 2016, 04:37:55 AM
I have a problem:
I downloaded the Community Core Library, activate it first and it works fine.
But when I activate Combat Realism I get
(http://i.imgur.com/3vnowLZ.png)

I'm running the last version 0.12.914.
Am I doing something wrong?

Please upload your output_log.txt found in [YourRimworldFolder]/RimWorld914Win_Data/
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Spare74 on January 25, 2016, 10:38:48 AM
I gave it another try with EDB mod order and it worked this time even though I loaded it in the exact same order as I did without EDB mod order...
Anyway, it works that's what counts. Thanks for the help.

Still want my log output?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on January 27, 2016, 01:38:57 PM
what a brilliant idea..

[attachment deleted due to age]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on January 27, 2016, 07:50:31 PM
Pawns should really have a better awareness of were the bullets are coming from.

Flanking enemies are so tricky when my pawns keep on insisting on taking the 'short path' through the bullets.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on January 28, 2016, 03:10:47 AM
The suppression algorithm is very barebones at the moment and needs some refinement to include pathing cost. I'll see about including it in the next update. Speaking off the next update, it's about 70-80% done but I can't continue work on certain features until CCL sorts out one of its experimental new features and I'm hoping it won't take more than a few weeks for that.

Making pawns aware of bullets would be fairly tricky to do in a good way but its definitely on the list for the AI update to make the higher level AI's not cross friendly lines of fire.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on January 28, 2016, 06:56:35 AM
hmm, maybe a colonist with enough Negotiation skill could Rally supressed comrades in a limited radius, depending on their suppression level.

need to play less WH..
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: eatKenny on January 28, 2016, 07:24:12 AM
I'm thinking disabling "looking for cover" for DRAFTED pawns, pawns can huncker down under heavy suppression but will hold the position(for tactical reason)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: eatKenny on January 28, 2016, 07:43:52 AM
and another thing about weapon ranges/projectile speed:

I think the default weapon ranges/projectile speed in this mod is not fitting gameplay well, in my mod i'm using square root method to rebalance the ranges and projectile speed:

range = 2*√real life effectiv range / projectile speed = 5*√real life muzzle velocity

for example pistol:
range = 2*√50 = 14 / projectile speed = 5*√384 = 98

for example sniper rifle:
range = 2*√1200 = 69 / projectile speed = 5*√830 = 144
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on January 30, 2016, 06:22:26 AM
I note that a IED doesn't give fragments when it explodes? Or was that because I had mine in a very narrow corner?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: WolfgangPolska on February 02, 2016, 02:54:47 AM
I have an errror, i cant  build any turrets, also i cant find  them in help section
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 02, 2016, 03:39:07 AM
I note that a IED doesn't give fragments when it explodes? Or was that because I had mine in a very narrow corner?

The IED explosion actually works on a completely different principle than weapons, programming wise. I never bothered adding any fragmentation effects mostly because I never use them.

I have an errror, i cant  build any turrets, also i cant find  them in help section

Working as intended, see the bottom of the feature list.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: WolfgangPolska on February 02, 2016, 04:41:10 AM
OK, but can you bring trenches back? Or it is impossible in alpha 12?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 02, 2016, 11:38:07 AM
OK, but can you bring trenches back? Or it is impossible in alpha 12?

It is possible but it would require some extra code additions to the aiming system that may or may not make it into the next update (depends mostly on how long its going to take to finish XCOM 2).
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on February 03, 2016, 02:35:05 PM
I note that a IED doesn't give fragments when it explodes?
The IED explosion actually works on a completely different principle than weapons, programming wise. I never bothered adding any fragmentation effects mostly because I never use them.
u can lay some shells around it, with IED acting as a primer, for the desired result ;)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on February 04, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
I note that a IED doesn't give fragments when it explodes?
The IED explosion actually works on a completely different principle than weapons, programming wise. I never bothered adding any fragmentation effects mostly because I never use them.
u can lay some shells around it, with IED acting as a primer, for the desired result ;)
Shells deteriorate, plus spending a extra 10 steel isn't really something I want to do. And then there is the hassle of amount and dragging them back and all that.
I thought about placing them in places to take out so I could take out multiple enemies at once, but I guess I could just use a mortar.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on February 06, 2016, 04:32:29 AM
somehow i thought, shell explosion gives fragments, but it doesnt. nevermind then.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on February 06, 2016, 06:36:59 AM
This might be a silly question, but what does combat realism do for melee combat? I mean, there are tons of ranged-weapon things, but what about the melee weapons? I can't see much of a difference between vanilla melee combat and combat realism melee combat.

Edit: Also, I note bows don't have ammo?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 07, 2016, 03:45:55 AM
This might be a silly question, but what does combat realism do for melee combat? I mean, there are tons of ranged-weapon things, but what about the melee weapons? I can't see much of a difference between vanilla melee combat and combat realism melee combat.

Edit: Also, I note bows don't have ammo?

So far melee is only affected through some minor cooldown and damage changes and it takes advantage of the armor penetration system but not much else beyond. Next version features some additions like parry/dodge chance depending on melee skill and more accurate body height detection (so no more getting your nose bitten off by a tortoise) but that's about it. Frankly, I've been having trouble finding a niche for melee to exist in. It doesn't do anything a shotgun or SMG couldn't do just as well or better, so it kinda ends up obsolete as soon as you have proper firearms.

Bows used to have ammo at some point but I removed it because it didn't really make sense. They'd just reload after every shot and spam the reloaded mote over and over and you can't really keep a bow "loaded" to begin with.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: LittleGreenStone on February 07, 2016, 09:54:53 PM
This might be a silly question, but what does combat realism do for melee combat? I mean, there are tons of ranged-weapon things, but what about the melee weapons? I can't see much of a difference between vanilla melee combat and combat realism melee combat.

Edit: Also, I note bows don't have ammo?

So far melee is only affected through some minor cooldown and damage changes and it takes advantage of the armor penetration system but not much else beyond. Next version features some additions like parry/dodge chance depending on melee skill and more accurate body height detection (so no more getting your nose bitten off by a tortoise) but that's about it. Frankly, I've been having trouble finding a niche for melee to exist in. It doesn't do anything a shotgun or SMG couldn't do just as well or better, so it kinda ends up obsolete as soon as you have proper firearms.

Bows used to have ammo at some point but I removed it because it didn't really make sense. They'd just reload after every shot and spam the reloaded mote over and over and you can't really keep a bow "loaded" to begin with.

Bows aside, I find melee weapons extremely useful.
Combined with other elements (including a mod that adds a solid shield), but still...
Enemies who think it's a good idea to drop right on top of my little colony, including centipedes, get their balls handed over to them by my melee units (with their army of animals).
Forcing ranged units into melee combat where they're clearly inferior, preventing them to use their OP realistic firearms, it's just extremely useful.
More than if I had those colonists equipped with the best legendary weapons.

Not kidding, 3 of my colonists with maces bashed two centipedes to death far more quickly than 8 of my colonists equipped with sniper/assault rifles did, without taking casualties.
...That is, if I don't count the ~2-3 dead boars a centipede squashed while they were keeping it occupied. But no colonists (or furniture) was lost! Pinky swear!  ;D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on February 08, 2016, 06:50:54 AM
This might be a silly question, but what does combat realism do for melee combat? I mean, there are tons of ranged-weapon things, but what about the melee weapons? I can't see much of a difference between vanilla melee combat and combat realism melee combat.

Edit: Also, I note bows don't have ammo?

So far melee is only affected through some minor cooldown and damage changes and it takes advantage of the armor penetration system but not much else beyond. Next version features some additions like parry/dodge chance depending on melee skill and more accurate body height detection (so no more getting your nose bitten off by a tortoise) but that's about it. Frankly, I've been having trouble finding a niche for melee to exist in. It doesn't do anything a shotgun or SMG couldn't do just as well or better, so it kinda ends up obsolete as soon as you have proper firearms.

Bows used to have ammo at some point but I removed it because it didn't really make sense. They'd just reload after every shot and spam the reloaded mote over and over and you can't really keep a bow "loaded" to begin with.

Like stated, I find melee a great thing to use if
1: You don't mind loosing some people
2: Have loads of troops(mostly animals)
3: Have good cover
Seriously. A melee unit behind cover can leap out and pretty much slaughter any gunner that gets near. And I'll say this. A shotgun SMG might be better if you have to run at them from the very edge of their range, but if run in while they're reloading, or ambush them, melee is defiantly superior.
Of course one of the problems in melee is that it's still bit of a hit-and-miss, so your soldiers usually end up with bruises all over unless the get one-hit-kills every time.

You can't keep a bow loaded but you can keep a quiver loaded... which is still rather redundant because you can't actually reload a quiver. Well, you can, but you just don't carry arrows to do so.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Boston on February 09, 2016, 01:58:28 PM
Quick question.

Is it possible for something like a blackpowder musket to be implemented? Something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bess

I have been looking at a musket mod for Rimworld before, but most of them are several Alphas old at this point.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on February 11, 2016, 11:15:07 PM
This is kinda random, but won't it be cool if arrows could switch between straight shooting, like guns, and a overhead shooting, like mortars?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 12, 2016, 03:17:00 AM
Quick question.

Is it possible for something like a blackpowder musket to be implemented? Something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bess

I have been looking at a musket mod for Rimworld before, but most of them are several Alphas old at this point.

I'm not sure what your question here is. If you're asking me about whether blackpowder firearms can be implement in this mod's framework then yes, they're no different from regular firearms in that regard. If you're asking me whether I can add actual muskets to this mod directly then no, this is primarily a balance mod, not a gun mod and I try to avoid feature creep as much as possible.

This is kinda random, but won't it be cool if arrows could switch between straight shooting, like guns, and a overhead shooting, like mortars?

I actually had a debate on that subject not too long ago but in the context of throwing grenades over walls. It is possible to implement but I'm not too big on the idea because it would a) be a niche case (how often are you fighting enemies a few tiles out from a wall with no roof above either you or the enemy? Only time I can think of is breaching ancient ruins) and b) it relies heavily on the fact the game has no FoW so you could throw grenades/pila/arrows at enemies you realistically would have no way of knowing are there. Hence I'm not too keen on the idea.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on February 12, 2016, 09:16:25 AM
Eh, just thought it might be a nice way of taking care of sappers or manhunter packs.

Then again, that is rather a narrow usage. On the other hand, it might be a way to attack pawns that are hunkered down/suppressed. On the other other hand, there are tons of ways to deal with that anyways so...

Edit:
For some reason, it looks like if you install the 'mad skills' mod with combat realism, the reload button disappears?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dugalle900 on February 19, 2016, 10:47:49 PM
Edit:
For some reason, it looks like if you install the 'mad skills' mod with combat realism, the reload button disappears?

I have both and the button appears.

My problem is that the traders never have any of the "Defense" pack turrets.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on February 20, 2016, 02:27:14 AM
My problem is that the traders never have any of the "Defense" pack turrets.

Do you have any other mods making changes to combat suppliers?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dugalle900 on February 20, 2016, 06:08:04 AM
Not that I can think of. I checked the TraderKind def file on the ones that I though might have changed the combat suplier but didn't find anything. Anyway, here are my mods in case I missed something:

http://imgur.com/YxgKYGT (http://imgur.com/YxgKYGT)
http://imgur.com/fI6omLL (http://imgur.com/fI6omLL)
http://imgur.com/6C1DiXP (http://imgur.com/6C1DiXP)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on February 20, 2016, 09:59:44 PM
Edit:
For some reason, it looks like if you install the 'mad skills' mod with combat realism, the reload button disappears?

I have both and the button appears.

My problem is that the traders never have any of the "Defense" pack turrets.
Looks like it was a problem because I added it in after, because things were fine when I started a new game.
Also, it looks like more mechanoids loaded before this causes a crash, but more mechanoids loaded after this doesn't.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Dugalle900 on February 21, 2016, 12:55:55 AM
This mod has something wrong (or right I suppose) with More Mechanoids. I added it in and the turrets started showing up on the combat traders  :o
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Boston on February 27, 2016, 06:42:37 AM
Hello,

I just downloaded the newest version of the Vegetable Garden Mod, and now Combat Realism isn't working. When I start a game, CR isn't one of the mods labelled as working on the "debug start" popup, and my pawns don't get the CR "addons" for firearms: ammunition, all that.

Here is a list of my mods, in order:
Core
EdB Mod Order
Vegetable Garden
Animal Hide working
COntainers for Stuff
EdB Prepare carefully
Enviro SK
Fish Industry
Medieval Shields
Micellaneous HiRes
More Factions Spawn
Modular Tables
Right tool for the Job
Tools for Hauling
Fences
Rimhair
Community Core Library
CCL-Vanilla Tweaks
Combat Realism Core
Combat realism defense pack

Any pointers?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Tatte on February 28, 2016, 03:40:12 AM
Still have yet to try this mod :P
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 01, 2016, 04:40:20 PM
So RL being what it is I've been kinda busy as of late so progress on the next update has slowed down (that and I've been working on another mod project for XCOM 2 since that's out now). Now I've freed up some time though and I've made a good bit of progress towards finishing the next big CR update so here's a little preview (http://i.imgur.com/LmCD2CW.jpg) of what I've been working on recently:

One of the biggest problems of the new aiming system was how intransparent it was. A lot of it came down to it displaying outdated or inaccurate stats and hit probabilities that didn't correspond to anything. This next update I'm focusing on polishing the existing systems rather than adding new content and part of that is tidying up the UI and displays. Guns will now display their stats properly and the tooltip box that appears when you hover over an enemy won't tell you about vanilla hit chances that have no bearing on anything but show actually relevant data. This should cut down on confusion for users and hopefully make previously obtuse systems much more accessible and understandable.

Any pointers?

Nothing in the modlist stands out to me at first glance, does the output_log.txt say anything?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on March 02, 2016, 02:32:59 PM
btw, could you maybe include ammo capacity and reload time in the weapon info window? if theres still some space left.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on March 03, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on March 03, 2016, 01:59:35 AM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

The hover texts for those stats could help with explaining that. Weapon sway is the amplitude of a lissajous figure which is proportional to a spread angle perpendicular to the target, basically pawns wiggle a bit when holding their gun and that pattern is visualized by a lissajous figure.

(http://mathforum.org/mathimages/imgUpload/thumb/Lissajous3by4.png/250px-Lissajous3by4.png)

The middle would be a shot directly into the target and anything away from the middle is a spread in degrees away from the perfect shot. The position on the lissajous curve is updated every tick, meaning you see a nice lissajous pattern when shooting a gun.

The spread value of a gun indicates a limit to a random angle deviation which only plays a role upon firing the gun and it's a consequence of having low health firearms around (or poorly produced ones). The only way to influence this is to have high quality, good health firearms though since it's a limit of a random function it's unlikely for your guns to miss fire constantly even at very high bullet spread.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 03, 2016, 04:58:03 AM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

That's expected. Its one of the downsides of using a complicated system like this, conveying the mechanics to the player becomes difficult. Aside from including more detailed descriptions of the various stats there will also be tooltips when hovering over a target that give you a better idea of the practical effects. For example hovering over a charging raider would tell you that your pawn will be able to lead him with up to 0.3 cells accuracy and going over the stat descriptions would tell you that a pawn's aiming skill is multiplied by the gun's accuracy stat to calculate how accurately you will be able to lead a target.

Even so I imagine a number of people won't quite understand every nuance of the system but I think that's fine. The important thing is that if you know general principles like less spread is more accurate and that sway scales with shooting skill, etc. you can make informed decisions based on that and compare different guns more fairly. Before you might see a gun that has better accuracy values and think it is better than another gun but it actually had more spread and sway and was therefore worse, etc.

Lastly I kept hearing about people who saw the vanilla tooltips about shots having x% chance to hit and thinking those were accurate numbers so even if people take nothing from the new values at least they won't be mislead by old values that don't correspond to anything anymore.

btw, could you maybe include ammo capacity and reload time in the weapon info window? if theres still some space left.

Certain stats probably won't make it into the info window proper but they will be listed in the description of the weapon itself. E.g. the description for a survival rifle would read something like "Probably pulled from a basement somewhere. armor penetration 70%, magazine size: 10, reload time 3 s". This is due to technical limitations and can't be changed without a lot of effort on my part so this will have to do for now.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on March 04, 2016, 08:43:27 PM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

That's expected. Its one of the downsides of using a complicated system like this, conveying the mechanics to the player becomes difficult. Aside from including more detailed descriptions of the various stats there will also be tooltips when hovering over a target that give you a better idea of the practical effects. For example hovering over a charging raider would tell you that your pawn will be able to lead him with up to 0.3 cells accuracy and going over the stat descriptions would tell you that a pawn's aiming skill is multiplied by the gun's accuracy stat to calculate how accurately you will be able to lead a target.

Even so I imagine a number of people won't quite understand every nuance of the system but I think that's fine. The important thing is that if you know general principles like less spread is more accurate and that sway scales with shooting skill, etc. you can make informed decisions based on that and compare different guns more fairly. Before you might see a gun that has better accuracy values and think it is better than another gun but it actually had more spread and sway and was therefore worse, etc.

Lastly I kept hearing about people who saw the vanilla tooltips about shots having x% chance to hit and thinking those were accurate numbers so even if people take nothing from the new values at least they won't be mislead by old values that don't correspond to anything anymore.

btw, could you maybe include ammo capacity and reload time in the weapon info window? if theres still some space left.

Certain stats probably won't make it into the info window proper but they will be listed in the description of the weapon itself. E.g. the description for a survival rifle would read something like "Probably pulled from a basement somewhere. armor penetration 70%, magazine size: 10, reload time 3 s". This is due to technical limitations and can't be changed without a lot of effort on my part so this will have to do for now.

I think it'll be nice to have a bit more text explaining the stats a bit more.
Like, whether a higher shooting skill can reduce that value or something.
I mean, I can guess that aiming accuracy is probably how well you can point at a target with the gun, sway is how much the gun is moving, and spread is how much the bullet can deviate from the 'crosshair' when shot, but it's difficulty to know which stats effects what more.
Like, will a weapon with small spread but large sway be better or worse towards a weapon with small sway but large spread?
Will I benefit from giving my small spread, large sway weapon to my best shooter, or worst?

Or a 'general accuracy' which could be something like 'the accuracy if a pawn with 10 shooting skill was using this weapon on a stationary target' which lets us compare things easier
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Kardek on March 05, 2016, 06:37:41 PM
NoImageAvailable thanks so much for this mod. I find it amazing. However can I request apart from transparency in the detail of the mechanics could you also please consider addressing harmony with the 3rd party shield mods. I saw some messaging to do with the bullet velocity is too high and renders some of the new shields ineffective? With this resolved I would have utopia in my rimworld universe :)

Thanks again!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Alistaire on March 06, 2016, 04:14:03 AM
The shield generator building things do already have problems with base game bullets skipping over them, and making either projectiles or shields check for the other every tick will introduce large amounts of lag. One way to fix that is to make things check whether they're inside of the shield once they're hit and make them act accordingly, alas this is not what such shield mods do.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: skullywag on March 06, 2016, 04:16:22 AM
With detouring this is more possible than it was. Ill be looking at this in the near future.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: IkeaSwede on March 07, 2016, 01:23:20 PM
Tried installing this a bunch of times - but the "Combat realism core" seems to crash the game; And I do put it below the community core mod?

Edit; I downloaded the "source" for the Community core mod.. which was the wrong one - sorry, problem on my end xD
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Kadrush on March 08, 2016, 07:58:46 AM
I like combat realism, but the supression mechanic allied with the fact that the AI dont shoot trough enclosed embrasures means that most attacks are just turkey shootings. They came, get supressed by LMG (or other rapid fire weapon) and dont shoot back. You just send a few people with LMGs to the wall, replace them when tired and keep shooting until they retreat.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on March 08, 2016, 11:41:23 AM
I like combat realism, but the supression mechanic allied with the fact that the AI dont shoot trough enclosed embrasures means that most attacks are just turkey shootings. They came, get supressed by LMG (or other rapid fire weapon) and dont shoot back. You just send a few people with LMGs to the wall, replace them when tired and keep shooting until they retreat.
it is true, that at first they ignore shooting at embrasures, but when being fired from, they actually reconsider and fire back, also taking defensive positions.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: RimVarl on March 08, 2016, 12:14:03 PM
Got CRD pack; its causing issues with the traders. The trade windows just appears blank, with only the silver showing on top
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Kadrush on March 08, 2016, 01:57:18 PM
Got CRD pack; its causing issues with the traders. The trade windows just appears blank, with only the silver showing on top

Blank traders is usually an issue with the order of the mods. Try to use the EBD mod order, place core and CCL in first and second, all EBD mods at last and it should be ok.

On the other hand, supression mechanic is CR related or related with mods with CR patchs. I mean, Rimsenal has a CR beta patch, which means that their weapons have ammo (except energy ones) and can cause supression. Glitter tech doenst so I am not sure if their weapons would cause supression in a game with CR activated.Same goes for mods that add turrets.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 09, 2016, 09:26:54 AM
In keeping with making the mod more transparent I have decided to highlight the new features via live stream. I'll be joined by several other modders as I playtest the upcoming release.

We'll begin tomorrow at about 7pm GMT so head over to Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/imagenotavailable) if you want a preview of the upcoming release and/or to watch me get my ass kicked by Centipedes as my colonists throw temper tantrums in the middle of a firefight.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on March 10, 2016, 04:19:22 PM
speaking of ammo system, maybe there should be a severe limitation for carried ammo (u dont expect your cook to walk around hung with machineguns belts), but also ammo sacks, that increace carried amount but give working\moving penalties.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: skullywag on March 10, 2016, 04:22:28 PM
NIA is streaming now btw.

https://www.twitch.tv/imagenotavailable
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 10, 2016, 05:00:06 PM
Stream is over but I don't think it was much of a success in terms of showing off features. I'm curious as to what people who watched it think, was it any good in terms of showing off the new stuff? I'll probably try out a different format in the future with either an LP style format using edited videos on Youtube or I'll eventually whip up some AAR style screenshot guide since people did express interest for that in the past.

Alternatively if people don't really care about this sort of thing I'll just leave the promotion alone and focus on working on the mod first and foremost. Let me know your thoughts.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: akiceabear on March 10, 2016, 07:02:03 PM
I prefer AAR screenshot style, not a fan of Twitch.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Grimandevil on March 11, 2016, 02:15:24 PM
Stream is over but I don't think it was much of a success in terms of showing off features. I'm curious as to what people who watched it think, was it any good in terms of showing off the new stuff?
i had to leave after 1st half of stream, so i cant be sure. but i think, since the point is to demonstrate combat features, u can start with already developed colony (basic buildings, more colonists, harsher raids), so u can focus on actual fighting.

(idk what is AAR) :-[
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: anonymous456 on March 12, 2016, 07:33:44 AM
Okay I absolutely love this mod in the modpacks. But after trying to install it myself, the game says it is incompatible. Do I have the wrong version of the CCL or something? Because the log mentions that a Fallback Handler could not load a library.

Here is a screenshot of my load order http://imgur.com/FhP3rKZ ,

output log is attached.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: Headshotkill on March 13, 2016, 12:13:26 PM

(idk what is AAR) :-[

AAR: After Action Report

You test something out and later make a report of it with screenshots and text explaining what you did and stuff, I too prefer this over streams and I think it's a lot clearer and easier to do.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: SUbzero0143 on March 16, 2016, 12:09:12 PM
so i installed the mod and i been having issue with the resarch  bench every time i try to use this mod  any suggestion?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 18, 2016, 03:01:13 PM
Progress update: the final feature for this new version made it in today. One of the big problems when fighting mechanoids was that the only way to kill them was to grind down the health on some very tough external body parts or hope for a lucky headshot. This lead to firefights often becoming a drag as you slowly plinked away at massive health pools. This changes now:

(http://i.imgur.com/mWOWwsl.png)

Mechanoids now have internal components that fulfill a similar role as the vital organs on humans. If you have a weapon tough enough to penetrate through the outer armor then you'll be able to do some serious damage to those internals. Every internal component damaged will seriously impair a mech's ability to fight back effectively, destroy enough critical components and the mech dies straight up. One good hit with a rocket launcher or mortar will cripple if not outright kill a Centipede.

To compensate, mechs had their armor values increased and are overall more capable of withstanding fire from non-penetrating shots. So it is now much more about bringing the right tools for the job, heavy weapons and explosives eat through Centipedes while regular small arms will plink away ineffectually.

Now that the final feature addition made it in I only need to fix a few outstanding bugs and the update will finally be ready for public release, hopefully in a few days from now.

so i installed the mod and i been having issue with the resarch  bench every time i try to use this mod  any suggestion?

This mod doesn't touch research so I suspect another mod is causing whatever issue you have. If you want more help you'll need to provide an actual description of your issue as well as your mod list and output_log.txt.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: AllenWL on March 18, 2016, 08:55:06 PM
Cool. The only qualm I have is that vanilla doesn't have a lot of heavy weapons(the only heavy weapon I can think of in vanilla is the sniper rifle and maybe the assault rifle), so if you don't like having weapon mods, you'll have to use explosives, and those can be tricky or impractical to use at times.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 20, 2016, 05:35:35 AM
Vanilla has the charge rifle which can semi-reliably penetrate Centipede armor and the next release also includes changes to the mortar that'll make scoring direct hits easier. Beyond that you always have rocket launchers and grenades. Its not much variety but then you're playing with only vanilla guns so that's the logical consequence, isn't it?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.4.0 (26.09.15) Suppression
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 20, 2016, 10:19:52 AM
Update

Version 1.5.0 is finally here. Major focuses for this release were rebalancing and making things transparent and almost every mechanics has been adjusted in some way. Insofar I'd like to hear people's feedback on the overall balance and helpfulness of the information presented so I can make further improvements if necessary. In other news I have moved from Dropbox to GitHub for new releases.

Now onto the new mechanical additions:

Firing modes
(http://i.imgur.com/z6uF7Y8.png)

All weapons can now switch between aimed and snapshot. Snapshot behaves exactly as vanilla whereas aimed shot will reduce weapon sway by an amount depending on the shooter's aiming accuracy. This means that high level shooters will be able to negate weapon sway almost entirely by using aimed shots. The downside is that after the weapon finishes its warmup phase the pawn will take a short while to take aim before firing with the exact time depending on the distance to the target.

Automatic weapons will have the option of toggling between single, burst and full auto fire. Single shot is self-explanatory, burst fire fires short controlled bursts for when you want to snipe a certain target and full auto fires long bursts ideal for suppressing a target.


Artillery spotting
(http://i.imgur.com/sdyXQGs.png)

Mortars have been rebalanced. Overall the destructive potential of individual shells is lower, fragmentation in particular has been reduced quite a bit. To compensate, base accuracy is now much better. However, indirect fire now carries a steep penalty with it and will severely reduce accuracy to the tune of 20% of distance in cells as additional miss radius. So for example firing at a target you can't see 100 cells away would mean the shell will have deviations of up to 20 cells in addition to all the regular inaccuracy.

There are two ways to avoid this penalty: the first is to have direct sight of the target. This means the thing your mortar is shooting at has to be within 107 cells (same range as a sniper rifle or machine gun) and have unobstructed line of sight to the operator. For example, if you place your mortar behind your defensive line where it can see the enemies fighting your colonists it will be able to deliver accurate fire support with no penalties.

The other way is to employ spotters. Combat suppliers will carry binoculars that you can equip in place of a regular weapon. You can then manually designate either a specific object or location on the ground to be marked. This will place a red marker on the target. If you target a cell or pawn marked in such a way with your mortar, not only will it not incur indirect fire penalties, it will also receive a boost in accuracy compared to direct fire so its always worth it to mark targets even if you have line of sight on it.

Keep in mind that turrets now account for operator skill when determining accuracy and spotting also takes into account the accuracy of the spotter so giving your binoculars and mortar to the guys with 0 shooting and cataracts might not be the best idea.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: falconbunker on March 20, 2016, 01:55:39 PM
Upon loading this mod in on the mod menu, the errors related to combat realism in this log showed up https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B29IXwitTppednV1ck5COHZDUEE/view?usp=sharing. If I could get assistance that would be appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: TheGentlmen on March 20, 2016, 02:05:04 PM
Doesn't say anywhere what version of Rimworld its for, fix your bullshit!!1 NIA, you can do better!\

Anyways, I tried it on A12 and it worked...

Love this mod so far but Its bugged so omg sucks. Also could you add multiplayer

Bullshit lazy modders wasting peoples time11!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 20, 2016, 02:05:13 PM
Upon loading this mod in on the mod menu, the errors related to combat realism in this log showed up https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B29IXwitTppednV1ck5COHZDUEE/view?usp=sharing. If I could get assistance that would be appreciated, thanks.

Let me guess, you're running Rimfire/some other weapon mod that offered a compatibility patch for the old version?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: falconbunker on March 20, 2016, 02:13:51 PM
Yeah I am, but they said it was for the new version of combat realism, going to check again to see if the site I uploaded from didn't have the new version of the weapon mod in question.

Edit: It's fixed now, keep up the good work this is a great mod.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 20, 2016, 02:18:50 PM
Yeah I am, but they said it was for the new one, going to check again to see if the site I uploaded from didn't have the new version of rimfire yet.

It seems the patch was packaged incorrectly, I talked to alistaire about it and it should be fixed now.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: SwiftShadow on March 21, 2016, 05:28:22 PM
I looked a youtube video of the mod before i got it and noticed all the colonists had like a little reload icon so i would know how many bullets left till reload, i dont seem to have that? Is that an intentional update or why do i not have it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 21, 2016, 05:31:53 PM
I looked a youtube video of the mod before i got it and noticed all the colonists had like a little reload icon so i would know how many bullets left till reload, i dont seem to have that? Is that an intentional update or why do i not have it.

The reload gizmos should still be there. What gun(s) is/are having the issue?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: SwiftShadow on March 21, 2016, 06:11:33 PM
The very first survival rifle when i start the game, wanted to test out how it is.


I also use the EdBInterface mod for a better UI.
VeinMiner mod that lets me set colonists to mine an entire vein.
[A11 Hairs] AnimuHair mod that just adds haircuts
and TMods-191 that adds more floors and bed colors.

None of these mods should have anything to do with the guns and the shooting that this mod changes.


Also after adding this mod my research tab is eamty, i tried disabling all other mods, and still doesnt work.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 21, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Please attach your output_log.txt here (its in YourRimworldFolder/Rimworld914Win_Data). Also, did you remember to restart Rimworld after opening the mod menu (i.e. did you just go into the mod menu, activate the mod and go straight into the game from there)?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: SwiftShadow on March 21, 2016, 06:37:24 PM
ok after the restart it wont let me activate your mods at all, says recovered from incompliteble mod errors and disables them all.

my activate order was

1 Core
2 Community core library v0.12.6
3 Community core library - Vanilla Tweaks
4 Combat realism core
5 Comnat realism defence pack

and i cant attach the file it is too large, it is 776 kb, but the max forums let is 600 kb
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 21, 2016, 06:41:18 PM
ok after the restart it wont let me activate your mods at all, says recovered from incompliteble mod errors and disables them all.

my activate order was

1 Core
2 Community core library - Vanilla Tweaks
3 Community core library v0.12.6
4 Combat realism core
5 Comnat realism defence pack

and i cant attach the file it is too large, it is 776 kb, but the max forums let is 600 kb

CCL Vanilla Tweaks must be placed below CCL. Also I went ahead and tested it and yes, its a case of not restarting after changing the mod order.

Rimworld has a well-known issue where any time you open up the mod menu it'll cause random issues ingame. The only fix is to restart the game every time you open the mod menu.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: SwiftShadow on March 21, 2016, 06:49:11 PM
yea i figured the order out already, and also started the game as admin which fixed the whole it saying the mods are incompatible and it loads them.
But i still dont see any of that ammo reloading or research.


After i removed the Community Core Library - Vanilla Tweaks from the load mod lists and only did.

1. Core
2. Community Core Library -
3. Realsim
4. Defence pack

with that mod order research options came back and the colonists have the reload icons and stuff.
However when i went to security tab it now has bobwire, but doesn't have turrets anymore?

Also does the defence pack make the game to easy? Dont really want to lose the vanilla difficulty.
Like i noticed it has walls that u can shoot through, dont that make sandbags totally useless?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Mrshilka on March 21, 2016, 11:04:02 PM
yea i figured the order out already, and also started the game as admin which fixed the whole it saying the mods are incompatible and it loads them.
But i still dont see any of that ammo reloading or research.


After i removed the Community Core Library - Vanilla Tweaks from the load mod lists and only did.

1. Core
2. Community Core Library -
3. Realsim
4. Defence pack

with that mod order research options came back and the colonists have the reload icons and stuff.
However when i went to security tab it now has bobwire, but doesn't have turrets anymore?

Also does the defence pack make the game to easy? Dont really want to lose the vanilla difficulty.
Like i noticed it has walls that u can shoot through, dont that make sandbags totally useless?

Against the tiny vanilla raids yes , these defence increases will make lift alot easier, however if your playing with mods that increase colony wealth greatly then these will give you a fighting chance when raids of 50+ become normal.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: SwiftShadow on March 21, 2016, 11:25:05 PM
yea i figured the order out already, and also started the game as admin which fixed the whole it saying the mods are incompatible and it loads them.
But i still dont see any of that ammo reloading or research.


After i removed the Community Core Library - Vanilla Tweaks from the load mod lists and only did.

1. Core
2. Community Core Library -
3. Realsim
4. Defence pack

with that mod order research options came back and the colonists have the reload icons and stuff.
However when i went to security tab it now has bobwire, but doesn't have turrets anymore?

Also does the defence pack make the game to easy? Dont really want to lose the vanilla difficulty.
Like i noticed it has walls that u can shoot through, dont that make sandbags totally useless?

Against the tiny vanilla raids yes , these defence increases will make lift alot easier, however if your playing with mods that increase colony wealth greatly then these will give you a fighting chance when raids of 50+ become normal.
\


so it would prolly be better to play with out the defence mod added
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Valarsul on March 22, 2016, 06:02:08 PM
(shameless pandering)

Thanks for the great mod, Image.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: roy2x on March 22, 2016, 09:37:40 PM
Has anyone ever thought about allowing pawns to equip small weapons like daggers along with guns?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 23, 2016, 05:21:22 AM
Has anyone ever thought about allowing pawns to equip small weapons like daggers along with guns?

Its a common idea actually and incidentally what I am working on right now. Next CR release will feature a proper inventory system based around item weight and bulk, as well as a fully fledged ammo system. You'll be able to carry various sidearms if you want to, however it will also mean carrying less ammo, grenades and other things into battle.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: AllenWL on March 23, 2016, 06:30:21 AM
I guess next update, I'll actually start having to build little shacks/huts where my pawns can run off to grab ammo/grenades/etc during/before fights rather then have every combat thing ever in whatever storage area I have.

Also, there where comments on various things about the updade, but the 'update' post only talks about the mortar and firing modes. Are those it, or are there other content in the update(like the mechanoid rebalance thing?)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 23, 2016, 06:58:11 AM
The Update post only explains the new mechanical additions, for a more complete changelog see the release page on github.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: rtmdchnk on March 23, 2016, 03:10:00 PM

Its a common idea actually and incidentally what I am working on right now. Next CR release will feature a proper inventory system based around item weight and bulk, as well as a fully fledged ammo system. You'll be able to carry various sidearms if you want to, however it will also mean carrying less ammo, grenades and other things into battle.
Wow, cant wait for it.
Thought about that few days ago, because bring melee fighters through all map is annoying.
Also - what is - <recoilOffsetX>(0.0, 0.50)</recoilOffsetX>
            <recoilOffsetY>(0.0, 0.19)</recoilOffsetY>
Something with fire spreading? So what is X and where is Y?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Frug on March 24, 2016, 07:43:39 PM
How exactly do the binoculars work? I draft a colonist who has the binoculars equipped, and tell them to mark a target. A small red crosshair appears where the target was at the time of the marking, but the mortar shell trajectories don't really change much, they're equally random, even after marking. Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 24, 2016, 07:49:57 PM
Also - what is - <recoilOffsetX>(0.0, 0.50)</recoilOffsetX>
            <recoilOffsetY>(0.0, 0.19)</recoilOffsetY>
Something with fire spreading? So what is X and where is Y?

It determines recoil patterns. In this case it means recoil will shift the target 0-0.5 degrees on the x axis and 0-0.19 degrees on the y axis.

How exactly do the binoculars work? I draft a colonist who has the binoculars equipped, and tell them to mark a target. A small red crosshair appears where the target was at the time of the marking, but the mortar shell trajectories don't really change much, they're equally random, even after marking. Am I doing something wrong?

You're probably using the gizmo button to designate targets. This will tell your spotter to mark the cell, rather than the pawn you click. To target a pawn right-click it and use the fire at command. For the mortar you have to use the forced target button and set it to attack the pawn/cell that has been marked and it should have its accuracy improved.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 25, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
With the ongoing work on the ammo system I am currently contemplating two different designs:

One is to use in-depth ammo calibers so every weapon would use its corresponding real world caliber. For example an AK-74 would use 5.45mm Soviet bullets whereas the M-16 would require 5.56mm NATO. The other system would be general types of caliber for each class of weapon, so the AK-74 and M-16 would both use small rifle ammo whereas a sniper rifle would use large rifle ammo.

For normal vanilla gameplay the difference would be negligible due to the low weapon count. It would only start coming into play in combination with weapon mods that add more gun types to the game, in which case the detailed system would provide an element of logistics. That is, you could equip your pawns with a mix of AK's and M-16's but it would mean more hassle managing your ammo stockpiles so you'd be encouraged to limit yourself to weapons using the same ammo types. The generic system would be more streamlined and allow employing a larger variety of guns without having to consider logistics.

As I am currently undecided on the matter I've created a strawpoll (http://strawpoll.me/7178957) where people can vote on their own preference so I can get an idea of where everyone stands.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: falconbunker on March 25, 2016, 08:23:33 PM
Can you add a option so as to enable or disable ammunition? Maybe when you are creating a new colony? If not, ok.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: AllenWL on March 25, 2016, 09:30:07 PM
That is, you could equip your pawns with a mix of AK's and M-16's but it would mean more hassle managing your ammo stockpiles so you'd be encouraged to limit yourself to weapons using the same ammo types. The generic system would be more streamlined and allow employing a larger variety of guns without having to consider logistics.
I think it would have the opposite effect. The generic ammo system would allow you to just stick with one type of gun, but the specific ammo system would force you to get a larger verity of weapons.

The reason I think this will happen is thus:
A genetic system means a single 'rifle bullet' works for all rifles. While this does indeed mean you can get more rifles of different type, it also means you can just stick with rifles of one type-after all, any rifle ammo you find will work.

However, on the individual ammo system, you'll have to stock up on weapons and ammo of all types, or risk running out. Why? Because there's no grantee the next combat trader or pirate merchant or whoever will have the ammo you need. If you stick with just 'rifle A', you'll need 'rifle ammo A' to use all your rifles, meaning it's a lot easier to run out.
Instead, you'll need to stock up on more types of rifles, so when a trader or drop pod comes with rifle ammo, there is a higher chance that one of your guns can use it, and therefor a higher chance that you'll be amble to replenish ammo on a gun. You'll need to get a verity of guns to make sure at least one type of ammo fits a gun you have.

This means with the individual ammo system, you'll need a bigger selection of guns, not a smaller one.
Either that, or you'll have to use melee weapons when ammo runs out.

I suppose you can do something like having ammo for a few simple guns(or bows) be craftable, so you can have at least some guns(bows) with ammo while having to stock up on rarer types, which would make sticking to a single gun type be more viable to individual ammo, but otherwise, you'll need to stock up on lots of different weapons.

Though, I suppose that won't be too bad either. It'll make buying weapons more than just 'how good is this'. You'll also have to consider how much ammo you have for it, how easily you can get ammo for it, if a slightly worse gun that uses an ammo you have lots of would be better, if you'll just be better off getting lots of ammo for a gun you have, and more.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Grimandevil on March 26, 2016, 05:01:29 PM
@NIA: if there will be 'Individual calibers' system, it is still possible for ppl to edit guns' .xml to use one type of ammo. rather than have it by default.

personally i voted for Generic calibers
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 26, 2016, 05:34:53 PM
Can you add a option so as to enable or disable ammunition? Maybe when you are creating a new colony? If not, ok.

@NIA: if there will be 'Individual calibers' system, it is still possible for ppl to edit guns' .xml to use one type of ammo. rather than have it by default.

personally i voted for Generic calibers

Its always possible to make these things optional but then I need to balance stats, market values, etc. around the idea of having ammo or not, as well as maintain all the separate files when I could instead just pick one version and concentrate on making it the best it can be. The option to tweak some XML files will remain open of course and if someone wants to make an alternate version I'll add it to the OP but I won't be providing them myself.

-snip-

First up, thanks for taking the time to write some detailed arguments, it does help a lot when balancing these things. You raise an interesting point regarding loot commonality and I'll have to factor that into my playtesting once it gets that far. Regarding crafting the general idea is to have regular ammo types be easily obtainable through crafting. I don't intend for there to be shortages of regular rifle or pistol ammo except in exceptional circumstances. More advanced ammo types like charge rifle or HE ammo will be limited by requiring more exotic ingredients such as plasteel or explosives harvested from boomalopes.

Something I'm undecided on is whether or not to limit crafting by requiring purchase of some kind of toolkit first (if you ever used Apparello, it has the same principle with blueprints). I am also considering adding gun crafting requiring the same toolkits and a weapon degradation mechanic but that's still up in the air, ammo crafting is definitely coming in some form or another.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: falconbunker on March 26, 2016, 06:03:28 PM
ok noimage, thanks for replying, keep up the good work
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Devon_v on March 26, 2016, 07:26:04 PM
I voted for individual calibers, though it took a lot of thinking on it.

Ultimately I guess if damage is directly tied to caliber, then guns would be all about weight, rate of fire, and accuracy. The idea that a really good weapon requires an obscure ammunition is interesting. (Talking Charge Rifles, Burning Suns, etc)

In vanilla, I would absolutely go with individual calibers. With mods it gets fuzzy considering how many different bullets you might end up juggling.

If this means that enemies will eventually exhaust their ammunition during raids it could be a big boon to Brawlers.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on March 26, 2016, 09:31:58 PM
I'd much rather see simplified ammo as the thought of another level of micromanagement for a colony is rather painful, even more-so in situations where drop-in raids are even worse if you just so happen not to be carrying to correct caliber for that particular weapon.

I wouldn't see an issue if instead of adding different calibers for ammo variety, you keep the simplistic ammo (rifle, pistol, shotgun), but add in 'exotic' ammo that has varying effects (AP, hollow-point, ect) for each weapon genre. Keep the management to a point where you'd be swapping out ammo because you want a different effect, not because the several different calibers of bullet you'd need to stockhold for weapons on your colonists.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: nuschler22 on March 26, 2016, 09:32:41 PM
I'm having an issue with people randomly not being able to fire through embrasures.  I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if it's the mod.

About 1/4 will aim at targets fine and the other 3/4's will not.  After a battle, I tried to force fire at some wandering animals and it said that they could "not hit target."  They were well within range (only a few squares away outside the embrasure).  Once again, about 1/4 were able to force fire, the other 3/4 or so could not.

Edit: The last couple of games worked fine.  I have it setup with the embrasure, sandbags outside the embrasure and a moat.

Ideas?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: AllenWL on March 27, 2016, 12:08:19 AM
First up, thanks for taking the time to write some detailed arguments, it does help a lot when balancing these things. You raise an interesting point regarding loot commonality and I'll have to factor that into my playtesting once it gets that far. Regarding crafting the general idea is to have regular ammo types be easily obtainable through crafting. I don't intend for there to be shortages of regular rifle or pistol ammo except in exceptional circumstances. More advanced ammo types like charge rifle or HE ammo will be limited by requiring more exotic ingredients such as plasteel or explosives harvested from boomalopes.

Something I'm undecided on is whether or not to limit crafting by requiring purchase of some kind of toolkit first (if you ever used Apparello, it has the same principle with blueprints). I am also considering adding gun crafting requiring the same toolkits and a weapon degradation mechanic but that's still up in the air, ammo crafting is definitely coming in some form or another.
If I understand it right, before you can make a gun/ammo, you need to get the toolkit for it, after which you can make as much as you want as long as you have the resources, and simple ammo is craftable from the start?
So if I wanted say, armor-piercing rounds, I'd need to buy the kit to unlock the ability(but not buy a kit per crafting session), but if I wanted normal rounds, I can just make them?
I'm guessing your goal is  you might lose because your soldier had no bullets, but you won't lose because you(the colony as a whole) had no bullets?
Sounds like a good idea, and it would certainly make sticking with one type of gun be a lot better.

Also, if kits are implanted, I think what'll most likely happen is your level of combat will go through about three stages.

The 'early' stage where you're not quite ready to craft ammo and get by scavenged weapons/ammo and melee weapons. You might run out of ammo if you're not careful, but probably not.
Rather than trying to get more ammo, you'll probably just pick up whichever has more bullets left

During the 'mid' stage, you won't be short on ammo, but still probably use a mix of guns rather then trying to give everyone the same gun, simply crafting ammo for existing guns rather than making/buying the same gun 'brand' for everyone. Some guns would probably get dropped at this point.
Ex: We have two rifle A's, two B's, and three C's. Rather then exchange A and B for two more C's, we just keep them all stocked, C taking priority, and rifle D, which we only have one of, is dropped.

Then the 'final' stage. Probably after you get some advanced ammo kits. From this point, sticking to one gun 'brand' per type would be best, as you can outfit every gun with advanced ammo, rather then having some guns with advanced ammo and some without.
Ex: We get an armor-piercing round kit for rifle B, and change all our rifles to B so every riflemen can have armor-piercing rounds without buying more kits.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: nuschler22 on March 27, 2016, 04:12:39 PM
I'm having an issue with people randomly not being able to fire through embrasures.  I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if it's the mod.

About 1/4 will aim at targets fine and the other 3/4's will not.  After a battle, I tried to force fire at some wandering animals and it said that they could "not hit target."  They were well within range (only a few squares away outside the embrasure).  Once again, about 1/4 were able to force fire, the other 3/4 or so could not.

Edit: The last couple of games worked fine.  I have it setup with the embrasure, sandbags outside the embrasure and a moat.

Ideas?


Anyone?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 27, 2016, 04:25:00 PM
I'd much rather see simplified ammo as the thought of another level of micromanagement for a colony is rather painful, even more-so in situations where drop-in raids are even worse if you just so happen not to be carrying to correct caliber for that particular weapon.

Ammo management will be very hands-off for the most part. You'll be able to set loadouts which function the same way as outfits, so your pawns will automatically stock up on whatever ammo you told them to get and mid-battle you'll be able to switch between all ammo types you're currently carrying. Unless you use up all of it during the battle or your entire colony runs out you won't get into many situations where individual pawns have nothing to shoot with.

I'm having an issue with people randomly not being able to fire through embrasures.  I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if it's the mod.

About 1/4 will aim at targets fine and the other 3/4's will not.  After a battle, I tried to force fire at some wandering animals and it said that they could "not hit target."  They were well within range (only a few squares away outside the embrasure).  Once again, about 1/4 were able to force fire, the other 3/4 or so could not.

Edit: The last couple of games worked fine.  I have it setup with the embrasure, sandbags outside the embrasure and a moat.

Ideas?

Embrasures are currently bugged and don't play nice with the AI. Sometimes pawns won't lean out properly to shoot from behind an embrasure in which case putting them directly behind it helps. I could probably give a more in-depth response if you posted a screenshot of your setup. Regarding animals you have to keep in mind that if they're small they might end up being obscured by high cover.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on March 28, 2016, 05:57:13 PM
Quick progress update here, the inventory system is now more or less fully functional and some good progress on the ammo system was made. On reload pawns will now load the last equipped ammo type. If they don't have ammo of that type they try to switch to another. If they don't have any they'll equip another gun that does have ammo. If they're completely out they'll switch to a melee weapon or resort to fisticuffs as last resort. So you could see a raider fire a rocket launcher, switch to a PDW, fire all his ammo and finally pull out a knife and charge you.

In related news, fluffy, whom you may remember from such mods as Colony Manager and Enhanced Tabs is doing the UI for the inventory display and loadout manager. Here are some very early WIP screenshots (http://imgur.com/a/3yPeg) so you guys can get an idea of what the final thing might look like.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: player13 on March 31, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
I don't see any of the defense-mod turrets as buildable under the security menu when starting a new game. I have both the mods loaded appropriately as per the instructions and no errors are generated. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Headshotkill on March 31, 2016, 07:23:10 PM
I don't see any of the defense-mod turrets as buildable under the security menu when starting a new game. I have both the mods loaded appropriately as per the instructions and no errors are generated. What am I doing wrong?

In this mod you don't "build" turrets, you buy them from a weapons dealer and plop them down like statues.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: AllenWL on April 01, 2016, 05:15:37 AM
Quick progress update here, the inventory system is now more or less fully functional and some good progress on the ammo system was made. On reload pawns will now load the last equipped ammo type. If they don't have ammo of that type they try to switch to another. If they don't have any they'll equip another gun that does have ammo. If they're completely out they'll switch to a melee weapon or resort to fisticuffs as last resort. So you could see a raider fire a rocket launcher, switch to a PDW, fire all his ammo and finally pull out a knife and charge you.

In related news, fluffy, whom you may remember from such mods as Colony Manager and Enhanced Tabs is doing the UI for the inventory display and loadout manager. Here are some very early WIP screenshots (http://imgur.com/a/3yPeg) so you guys can get an idea of what the final thing might look like.
Is 'weight' and 'bulk' is the sum of all items/clothes on the pawn that'll slow them down? This will make making sense of that 'movement speed penalty X%' thing a lot easier to tell.
I'm guessing the reason for their addition is because of the fact that pawns can carry more guns, need to carry ammo, and can carry misc melee weapons and grenades as well, making that penalty thing a lot more complicated to figure out?

Also, I just realized something. With ammo, does this mean that in extreme cases, you can just hunker down till the enemy uses up all their bullets, then attack when they resort to melee? How will this work with enemies using weapons that use lots of bullets(like a centipede with a minigun)?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 01, 2016, 06:15:12 AM
Is 'weight' and 'bulk' is the sum of all items/clothes on the pawn that'll slow them down? This will make making sense of that 'movement speed penalty X%' thing a lot easier to tell.
I'm guessing the reason for their addition is because of the fact that pawns can carry more guns, need to carry ammo, and can carry misc melee weapons and grenades as well, making that penalty thing a lot more complicated to figure out?

Also, I just realized something. With ammo, does this mean that in extreme cases, you can just hunker down till the enemy uses up all their bullets, then attack when they resort to melee? How will this work with enemies using weapons that use lots of bullets(like a centipede with a minigun)?

Weight and bulk are calculated from the equipped weapon, worn apparel and anything in the pawn's inventory. Weight is the physical weight of an item and limited by the pawn's movement capacity (so being shot in the leg reduces your weight limit) and I'm considering adding a new pawn skill as well (i.e. along with cooking, growing, shooting, etc. you'd have a skill "Endurance" that would increase by carrying heavy loads). Bulk represents how "bulky" and uncomfortable an item would be to carry (e.g. an assault rifle with a folding stock would be less bulky than one with a fixed stock) and maximum bulk is increased by wearing things like backpacks and tactical vests. These will be worn on top of the shell layer so you can still wear parkas and such with a backpack.

The current move/workspeed penalties on guns are supposed to represent their weight currently and will be removed with the new system. Instead being near your weight/bulk limit will impart penalties to move/workspeed respectively. The idea is for one to put a limit on the amount of gear pawns can carry and also the same as behind the speed penalties on guns. That is, it encourages you to keep a light load where feasible. In the vanilla game if you have someone with 0 shooting and cataracts it still makes sense to give him a charge rifle and armor vest if you have some to spare, simply because there is no reason not to. With weight penalties you only want to give him a pistol for self-defense at most. It introduces loadout variety and gives a niche to otherwise weak weapons. In combat it helps tribals get an edge on well-equipped colonists by being faster and also allows for things like giving a pawn an SMG and light ammo load to turn him into a fast flanker as opposed to loading him to the maximum.

You can theoretically hunker until the enemy is out of ammo. The problem is the AI is smart enough not to shoot targets they can't hit (certain vanilla bugs not withstanding) so you'd have to somehow survive the AI firing thousands of bullets at you unscathed and at that point you'd probably be better of just killing them first. Once the AI overhaul gets done the AI will be smart enough to retreat when out of ammo but that's still a ways off.

As for miniguns, one of the reasons I want to introduce ammo is specifically to balance ammo-draining weapons like miniguns. If a Centipede has 100kg of carrying capacity and 40kg are taken up by the minigun it would have room for 2400 rounds. At 300 rounds per burst you could sit out 8 bursts and then not have to worry because the Centipede is out of ammo. Of course the downside to this strategy is you have to sit out and survive 8 bursts from a minigun. The same goes for the player too, if you're using machine guns against tribals you can simply go full auto and spray them with fire but it will cost you in ammo, so you need to balance volume of fire against ammo consumption.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: AllenWL on April 01, 2016, 06:53:51 AM
When you say 'AI is smart enough not to shoot at targets they can't hit', does this include targets who are suppressed? Because I remember my pawns shooting a raider who was suppressed and hiding behind a wall where they couldn't actually hit him.

Three quick questions- Will bows use arrows as ammunition, will there be 'special' arrows(ex: flaming arrow), and will pila be a throwable item like grenades?

Also, aimed shot is very nice when hunting.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 01, 2016, 07:34:13 AM
When you say 'AI is smart enough not to shoot at targets they can't hit', does this include targets who are suppressed? Because I remember my pawns shooting a raider who was suppressed and hiding behind a wall where they couldn't actually hit him.

Three quick questions- Will bows use arrows as ammunition, will there be 'special' arrows(ex: flaming arrow), and will pila be a throwable item like grenades?

Also, aimed shot is very nice when hunting.

Shooting through walls is the vanilla bug I was talking about. If a pawn hunkers down behind sandbags/rock chunks the AI won't target them.

Regarding your questions: yes, probably, probably. Pila will be single use throwable but I haven't decided on an exact format for the grenades yet. They might end up getting their own special system that is different from how regular weapons work.

And you're in luck because the next release has hunting jobs ignore aim mode settings and always use aimed shot.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: eatKenny on April 01, 2016, 07:54:10 AM
When you say 'AI is smart enough not to shoot at targets they can't hit', does this include targets who are suppressed? Because I remember my pawns shooting a raider who was suppressed and hiding behind a wall where they couldn't actually hit him.

Three quick questions- Will bows use arrows as ammunition, will there be 'special' arrows(ex: flaming arrow), and will pila be a throwable item like grenades?

Also, aimed shot is very nice when hunting.

Shooting through walls is the vanilla bug I was talking about. If a pawn hunkers down behind sandbags/rock chunks the AI won't target them.

Regarding your questions: yes, probably, probably. Pila will be single use throwable but I haven't decided on an exact format for the grenades yet. They might end up getting their own special system that is different from how regular weapons work.

And you're in luck because the next release has hunting jobs ignore aim mode settings and always use aimed shot.

i'm thinking about the grenade system to be "mutiple charges". for example you buy grenade you will get 3 grenades and you can throw 3 times. same thing for pila.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Calavera on April 03, 2016, 06:45:07 AM
Hi

I'm absolutely new around here. Just downloaded the mod a day ago. After a while I found out that something was wrong on my side.
There were no reload icons nor mode selection for the weapons and my guys didn`t gain any XP from shooting. After a quick bootcamp in rimworld modding and skimming the code I found out that the Weapons_Guns.xml def file erroneously references an unexisting "Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCRReload" instead of "Combat_Realism.VerbShootCR" several times. After correcting this my icons are just like the ones on the picture and I can switch to AIM mode to gain XP. (As the source tells me XP is rewarded for time spent aiming)

I hope you find this useful, it should be quite easy to fix on either side. I haven't read all the previous comments so if this was already pointed out, my bad.

Anyways. Very impressive mod. Single handedly pulled me back to Rimworld after I thought I burned out.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 03, 2016, 07:08:54 AM
Hi

I'm absolutely new around here. Just downloaded the mod a day ago. After a while I found out that something was wrong on my side.
There were no reload icons nor mode selection for the weapons and my guys didn`t gain any XP from shooting. After a quick bootcamp in rimworld modding and skimming the code I found out that the Weapons_Guns.xml def file erroneously references an unexisting "Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCRReload" instead of "Combat_Realism.VerbShootCR" several times. After correcting this my icons are just like the ones on the picture and I can switch to AIM mode to gain XP. (As the source tells me XP is rewarded for time spent aiming)

I hope you find this useful, it should be quite easy to fix on either side. I haven't read all the previous comments so if this was already pointed out, my bad.

Anyways. Very impressive mod. Single handedly pulled me back to Rimworld after I thought I burned out.

That's a very odd bug you've encountered. Which version of CR did you download exactly and from where? Also, which version of CCL are you using? Did any console errors appear? Verb_ShootCRReload is required for the reloading system to work, it should be on any guns that use reloading.

More importantly, did you restart the game after going into the mod menu? There is a known bug where if you open the mod menu and then go into the game without restarting it will break all kinds of things in weird ways, for CR it means no buttons show up. Try enabling the mod, then restarting the game and see if the issue persists.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: RooSalad on April 09, 2016, 08:48:16 AM
Sorry if it's already been stated somewhere, I'm at work don't have a lot of time to skim this thread right now, was just curious if there was an ETA on an update for A13 as of yet? No rush, love your stuff, keep up the good work <3
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: Alistaire on April 09, 2016, 08:59:21 AM
CR has as dependency CCL so once CCL is out CR will follow~
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: falconbunker on April 09, 2016, 08:45:08 PM
Since we are going to have limited ammo, could you add a toggle while drafted that dictates whether or not they auto fire? Since I would like to wait until enemies are within optimal range of a weapon so as to waste the least amount of bullets trying to shoot them.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 10, 2016, 05:21:19 AM
Since we are going to have limited ammo, could you add a toggle while drafted that dictates whether or not they auto fire? Since I would like to wait until enemies are within optimal range of a weapon so as to waste the least amount of bullets trying to shoot them.

That's already included in the next release
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: tks_ftw on April 11, 2016, 01:04:58 PM
Hi

I'm absolutely new around here. Just downloaded the mod a day ago. After a while I found out that something was wrong on my side.
There were no reload icons nor mode selection for the weapons and my guys didn`t gain any XP from shooting. After a quick bootcamp in rimworld modding and skimming the code I found out that the Weapons_Guns.xml def file erroneously references an unexisting "Combat_Realism.Verb_ShootCRReload" instead of "Combat_Realism.VerbShootCR" several times. After correcting this my icons are just like the ones on the picture and I can switch to AIM mode to gain XP. (As the source tells me XP is rewarded for time spent aiming)

I hope you find this useful, it should be quite easy to fix on either side. I haven't read all the previous comments so if this was already pointed out, my bad.

Anyways. Very impressive mod. Single handedly pulled me back to Rimworld after I thought I burned out.

That's a very odd bug you've encountered. Which version of CR did you download exactly and from where? Also, which version of CCL are you using? Did any console errors appear? Verb_ShootCRReload is required for the reloading system to work, it should be on any guns that use reloading.

More importantly, did you restart the game after going into the mod menu? There is a known bug where if you open the mod menu and then go into the game without restarting it will break all kinds of things in weird ways, for CR it means no buttons show up. Try enabling the mod, then restarting the game and see if the issue persists.

Yeah, I actually have the same issue, no mode selection or manual reloading, though they reload on their own still. As well, the XP doesn't seem to go up for most tasks but I did notice sometimes it went up, so I'm not sure what they do that actually gains shooting XP. I downloaded the latest version of CR and CCL pretty much hours before A13 came out, so I've just been messing about in it while I was for the mods to catch up. But I was wondering how you set the modes and I guess it's just not working properly instead of me being blind or something.

I'll list the mods I'm using in order of my load order with their version number, as well as the console error i get on Rimworld's startup which I'd just been ignoring for the time being as everything seemed to work. And yeah, I did read about the mod page bug when setting this all up so I enabled everything and restarted before making a new world and colony. At the time, all were the latest versions I could find for each mod, but it's possible I just looked in the wrong place.

RimWorld914Win executable
Core
EdB Mod Order 1.6.1
CCL v0.12.7.2
CCL - Research Tree
CR Core v1.5.0
CR Defense Pack v1.3.1
EPOE (Expanded Prosthetics and Organ Engineering) v1.52
CR EPOE compatiability patch, no version listed in About.xml but presumably latest at the time

EDIT: Okay, I feel real dumb now. I actually read the stack trace for the console error, and it says CCL requires that it's loaded right after Core in load order. I had figured the mod loader should be second but I guess not, and fixing that has also fixed the mode selectors and whatnot. Calavera, double check to make sure your mod load order isn't the issue you're having, just to be sure.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: igz33 on April 11, 2016, 01:22:42 PM
Would it be possible for a colonist and raider to carry both, a range weapon and a melee weapon?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: falconbunker on April 11, 2016, 01:23:31 PM
In the exit update if this mod
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: hwoo on April 11, 2016, 02:23:55 PM
So untill CCL is updated none of these work with the current alpha?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 11, 2016, 02:52:21 PM
Would it be possible for a colonist and raider to carry both, a range weapon and a melee weapon?

Next release will feature a fully-fledged inventory system which let's you carry any combination of items you want with move-/workspeed penalties depending on the weight/bulk of items carried.

So untill CCL is updated none of these work with the current alpha?

Good news, I just received a test build for CCL from the author and can begin work on making the mod A13 compatible. Not much changed on a glance but I was still in the process of putting some finishing touches on the new mechanics, so it could probably be ready in a week or so, depending on how fast my artists can finish the new artwork.

Bad news, Dark Souls 3 releases tomorrow and depending on how good it is it may delay release by a significant amount of time.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: hwoo on April 11, 2016, 03:13:49 PM
Would it be possible for a colonist and raider to carry both, a range weapon and a melee weapon?

Next release will feature a fully-fledged inventory system which let's you carry any combination of items you want with move-/workspeed penalties depending on the weight/bulk of items carried.

So untill CCL is updated none of these work with the current alpha?

Good news, I just received a test build for CCL from the author and can begin work on making the mod A13 compatible. Not much changed on a glance but I was still in the process of putting some finishing touches on the new mechanics, so it could probably be ready in a week or so, depending on how fast my artists can finish the new artwork.

Bad news, Dark Souls 3 releases tomorrow and depending on how good it is it may delay release by a significant amount of time.

I hear its great so there's that to look forward too :)

heard great things about this mod and I cant wait to try it out for the first time.

Well done with it all to you and all involved.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: harpyeagle on April 11, 2016, 03:28:15 PM
Still looking forwards to it, regardless.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: AllenWL on April 12, 2016, 09:18:32 AM
Would it be possible for a colonist and raider to carry both, a range weapon and a melee weapon?

Next release will feature a fully-fledged inventory system which let's you carry any combination of items you want with move-/workspeed penalties depending on the weight/bulk of items carried.

So untill CCL is updated none of these work with the current alpha?

Good news, I just received a test build for CCL from the author and can begin work on making the mod A13 compatible. Not much changed on a glance but I was still in the process of putting some finishing touches on the new mechanics, so it could probably be ready in a week or so, depending on how fast my artists can finish the new artwork.

Bad news, Dark Souls 3 releases tomorrow and depending on how good it is it may delay release by a significant amount of time.
So, good news, NoImageAvailable(who surprisingly, has a image!) gets to play a newly released game, better news a CR update will follow in a few weeks?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) The Great Rebalancing
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 14, 2016, 02:58:53 PM
So I finished updating my codebase to A13 only to run into a stone wall: with A13 Tynan and Ison decided to make mods load in a separate thread from the main game. This has introduced a number of major issues for modders. In my case I have run into an extremely obscure bug that neither I nor any of the modders I talked to have any idea how to fix. This means any time CR is loaded it crashes the game due to threading issues and I can't even begin to track down the source of this bug. None of the known solutions and workarounds worked.

This fact, combined with some generally unpleasant behavior from the devs towards the modding community, part of which lead to the introduction of this threading issue in the first place, made me decide to cease all development of this mod and permanently leave Rimworld modding.

That is all.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: Larn on April 14, 2016, 03:12:38 PM
wow....
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: brucethemoose on April 14, 2016, 03:18:23 PM
/drama

At least the source is on Github. Someone else could potentially pick up the torch.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: AseaHeru on April 14, 2016, 03:54:43 PM
 Hopefully someone does.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 14, 2016, 04:35:16 PM
Just to clarify a bit: this is not a matter of someone "picking up the torch" but of the mod simply not working with the game. I can't run the game with the mod and I can't track down the source of the bug. And unless somebody else does manage to fix it nobody will be able to keep developing this, it is simply a matter of it not being technically possible.

There is the possibility that the issue will be fixed in a month or two for A14, but considering how stuff like the mod menu bug is still around after god knows how many alphas I wouldn't bet on that. Furthermore, due to RL issues I won't be around in 2 months time anyways, which is why I was planning to add a few last features for A13 and then pass maintenance to someone else. However, since I can't continue development that plan fell through.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: skullywag on April 14, 2016, 05:04:11 PM
noimageavailable, please see:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=18887.0

I think i figured out your issue, ive definitley managed to stop the main error you were seeing.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: eatKenny on April 14, 2016, 05:09:28 PM
hope this mod lives on, sad to see such a good mod got abandoned when the vanilla game is getting really good.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development ceased
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 14, 2016, 05:12:58 PM
noimageavailable, please see:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=18887.0

I think i figured out your issue, ive definitley managed to stop the main error you were seeing.

I'll have a look at that and see if this'll work. If I don't run into any more mod-breaking issues development will resume.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 14, 2016, 05:17:58 PM
This is a roller-coaster of emotions and I can't take it anymore.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 15, 2016, 01:54:50 AM
So here's the summary of the current situation:

The issue that has been stonewalling me the last two days appears to have been resolved. We're still not 100% sure what was causing it but it works now so that's good enough for me.

That said, I am still leaving. Most of it is behind the scenes stuff that isn't really apparent from the outside, but most modders can attest to a number of frustrating issues with Rimworld modding in general and with recent IRL issues the added stress is just not something I need right now, which is why I've made the decision to leave a while ago now.

Since I know this mod has a fairly large user base I want to add a few more features along with A13 compatibility before I go. Right now it looks like there will be two more updates, one for the inventory and ammo system followed by an update to the melee, animal combat and suppression system. After that someone else will have to carry on updating this mod to future alphas.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: akiceabear on April 15, 2016, 03:13:50 AM
Really looking forward to the A13 version, as it breathed new life into the game in past alphas, but also can imagine the frustration with constant changes that impact your (volunteer) mod. Hope someone can pick up the torch when you finish - or that the vanilla code stabilizes!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 15, 2016, 02:36:41 PM
On to more pleasant topics, after wading through a litany of errors I finally managed to return to the point I was pre-A13 and am now able to make some actual progress again. Meanwhile, afriend has been working hard on providing stack graphics for all the different ammo types, with distinct shapes and coloring schemes to allow players to easily identify the general type of ammo on a glance. Here are some of the various ammo types that were implemented today:

(http://i.imgur.com/LQ2ixZt.png)

Top row: Charged ammo (comes in regular, concentrated and EMP variants), pistol and rifle ammo (both in FMJ, armor-piercing and hollow-point varieties)

Bottom row: High caliber ammo (FMJ, Sabot, HE and Incendiary), shotgun shells (buckshot, slugs, beanbags, EMP slugs, there is also a birdshot variety which is not in this picture)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: hwoo on April 15, 2016, 02:50:04 PM
On to more pleasant topics, after wading through a litany of errors I finally managed to return to the point I was pre-A13 and am now able to make some actual progress again. Meanwhile, afriend has been working hard on providing stack graphics for all the different ammo types, with distinct shapes and coloring schemes to allow players to easily identify the general type of ammo on a glance. Here are some of the various ammo types that were implemented today:

(http://i.imgur.com/LQ2ixZt.png)

Top row: Charged ammo (comes in regular, concentrated and EMP variants), pistol and rifle ammo (both in FMJ, armor-piercing and hollow-point varieties)

Bottom row: High caliber ammo (FMJ, Sabot, HE and Incendiary), shotgun shells (buckshot, slugs, beanbags, EMP slugs, there is also a birdshot variety which is not in this picture)

That looks awesome man! It's such a shame to hear that your leaving. I wish that wasn't the case as your stuff is quality but whatever best for you my friend.

Question: does the beanbag only cause incaps or does it have the chance of killing?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 15, 2016, 04:56:10 PM
Question: does the beanbag only cause incaps or does it have the chance of killing?

Currently the plan is that it will do a small amount of blunt damage, enough to shoot out an eye with a direct hit and maybe break a rib or two, but not enough to kill and completely ineffective against armor. In addition it will cause a hediff to build up (same principle as toxic buildup) which will give penalties to movement and manipulation, if it goes high enough the pawn can't move and temporarily goes down for capture.

The beanbags themselves will have pretty poor accuracy so they're only useful at very close range but they should allow for a good way to break up social fights and subdue berserking pawns or unarmored raiders for capture.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Rahjital on April 15, 2016, 07:21:23 PM
Does this mean CR disables the vanilla behaviour of auto-killing downed raiders then?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Archadeas on April 15, 2016, 08:12:06 PM
I love this mod, no more firing a pistol in every direction but forward using 20 shooting and a sniper rifle.  Also, any potential of getting rubber bullets for a less lethal pistol and rifle alternative?. Already love the shotgun work, makes short work of groups and buildings. Then all we would need is flash goggles, rubber grenades, and flash bangs and we can use swat tactics to maintain order and prisons.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 15, 2016, 08:30:09 PM
Question: does the beanbag only cause incaps or does it have the chance of killing?

Currently the plan is that it will do a small amount of blunt damage, enough to shoot out an eye with a direct hit and maybe break a rib or two, but not enough to kill and completely ineffective against armor. In addition it will cause a hediff to build up (same principle as toxic buildup) which will give penalties to movement and manipulation, if it goes high enough the pawn can't move and temporarily goes down for capture.

The beanbags themselves will have pretty poor accuracy so they're only useful at very close range but they should allow for a good way to break up social fights and subdue berserking pawns or unarmored raiders for capture.
This would be so useful for prison breaks, and very useful for getting rid of tribal warriors.
The ammo looks really cool too, not that I can understand what half of them do...

Just a question though, what would EMP shots do when it hits humans? It would be cool if at the very least, it took out personal shields in one shot.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: PotatoeTater on April 15, 2016, 11:01:06 PM
Question: does the beanbag only cause incaps or does it have the chance of killing?

Currently the plan is that it will do a small amount of blunt damage, enough to shoot out an eye with a direct hit and maybe break a rib or two, but not enough to kill and completely ineffective against armor. In addition it will cause a hediff to build up (same principle as toxic buildup) which will give penalties to movement and manipulation, if it goes high enough the pawn can't move and temporarily goes down for capture.

The beanbags themselves will have pretty poor accuracy so they're only useful at very close range but they should allow for a good way to break up social fights and subdue berserking pawns or unarmored raiders for capture.

Just a little side note, I used to work in a prison and I've been shot with a beanbag round with my body armor on and it does infact hurt really bad, as well as, shatter the armor plates.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Archadeas on April 16, 2016, 12:20:10 AM
Question: does the beanbag only cause incaps or does it have the chance of killing?

Currently the plan is that it will do a small amount of blunt damage, enough to shoot out an eye with a direct hit and maybe break a rib or two, but not enough to kill and completely ineffective against armor. In addition it will cause a hediff to build up (same principle as toxic buildup) which will give penalties to movement and manipulation, if it goes high enough the pawn can't move and temporarily goes down for capture.

The beanbags themselves will have pretty poor accuracy so they're only useful at very close range but they should allow for a good way to break up social fights and subdue berserking pawns or unarmored raiders for capture.

Just a little side note, I used to work in a prison and I've been shot with a beanbag round with my body armor on and it does infact hurt really bad, as well as, shatter the armor plates.
While yes, L3 and L4 ceramic ballistic plates will often crack or shatter, the game armor is based on level 3 steel(And plasteel) ballistic plates, those would not shatter, but yes, knock the wind out of you, maybe crack a rib or 2 and hurt like the fiery pits.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: hwoo on April 16, 2016, 04:38:56 AM
I hope it doesn't take many bag shots to down someone. If I'm gonna risk destroying their eye id rather the bean bag has less of a chance to do that than having to get all my colonists to bash him up potentially killing him because it took to long.

Now that I think of it. Is it possible to make a tazer? Like a short short range 1 hit use(disappears after use) weapon that incaps prisoners and colonists but not raiders/tribals/visitors ect?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 16, 2016, 05:07:34 AM
Does this mean CR disables the vanilla behaviour of auto-killing downed raiders then?

Not sure which behavior you're talking about, pawns shouldn't attack downed enemies to begin with.

The ammo looks really cool too, not that I can understand what half of them do...

The ammo itself will include a short description of what it does as well as list all its stats and damage types in detail. Most of it is fairly straightforward, FMJ = standard middle of the road ammo, Hollow Point = more damage, less armor penetration for use against unarmored opponents, Armor Piercing = less damage, more penetration for enemies wearing body armor.

Weapons will also list the ammo type they use both in their description and prefixed in their names (e.g. (5.56mm NATO) Assault Rifle (normal)) so you can tell easily which ammo type a gun uses in trade windows, etc.

Quote
Just a question though, what would EMP shots do when it hits humans? It would be cool if at the very least, it took out personal shields in one shot.

Right now they just do the standard EMP damage as well as some blunt and electrical damage. I've been thinking about extending the effects of EMP against non-Mechanoids though and the bonus damage against personal shields is a pretty good idea. The other thing I had in mind was a stun-effect against anyone wearing power armor (along with introducing power-armor wearing elite enemies).
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Korn.Mil on April 16, 2016, 05:18:32 AM
Can't wait for A13 release!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 16, 2016, 06:27:21 AM
Right now they just do the standard EMP damage as well as some blunt and electrical damage. I've been thinking about extending the effects of EMP against non-Mechanoids though and the bonus damage against personal shields is a pretty good idea. The other thing I had in mind was a stun-effect against anyone wearing power armor (along with introducing power-armor wearing elite enemies).
Electrical damage?

EMP would be more useful if there where more electrical things that can be used in battle, but really, other than mechanoids and the high-tech stuff(charge rifle, power armor, personal shield), there just isn't much things in the game that would be effected by EMP, at least not in a fight.

Of course, the colony has a lot of things that might be effected by EMP...(anything that uses components really), but raiders? The only things I can think of other than power armor and personal shields are charge rifles and the doomsday/triple rocket launcher. And maybe bionics/implants. Huh, that might be cool. You shoot a EMP at a raider with a joywire and fry his brain.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: hwoo on April 16, 2016, 07:08:52 AM
Right now they just do the standard EMP damage as well as some blunt and electrical damage. I've been thinking about extending the effects of EMP against non-Mechanoids though and the bonus damage against personal shields is a pretty good idea. The other thing I had in mind was a stun-effect against anyone wearing power armor (along with introducing power-armor wearing elite enemies).
Electrical damage?

EMP would be more useful if there where more electrical things that can be used in battle, but really, other than mechanoids and the high-tech stuff(charge rifle, power armor, personal shield), there just isn't much things in the game that would be effected by EMP, at least not in a fight.

Of course, the colony has a lot of things that might be effected by EMP...(anything that uses components really), but raiders? The only things I can think of other than power armor and personal shields are charge rifles and the doomsday/triple rocket launcher. And maybe bionics/implants. Huh, that might be cool. You shoot a EMP at a raider with a joywire and fry his brain.

Your last part was spot on, but instead of joy wire think pain stopper. That raider in power armour with a shotgun rushing you taking all the hits and not going down because of the implant. Fry the implant and his brain with EMP leaving him brain dead. Great idea man that would be awesome.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: akiceabear on April 16, 2016, 07:31:35 AM
Looks great! Eagerly awaiting this release.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Nebbeh on April 16, 2016, 07:34:27 AM
Nooo, I don't want ammo :( Hope there will be an option to not include ammo like this.

On that note, I'm sorry to see you go, CR been a blast to play so far. Good Luck with that thing called Real Life :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 16, 2016, 08:11:43 AM
Does this mean CR disables the vanilla behaviour of auto-killing downed raiders then?

Not sure which behavior you're talking about, pawns shouldn't attack downed enemies to begin with.

At least starting A13, I've noticed colonists going out of their way to kill hostile pawns that were incapped. The past few raids I've dealt with all had 1-2 incapped raiders I couldn't be bothered finishing off, but it was the same person who always went to go finish them off, who were also set to hunt as a high priority.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Tig2 on April 16, 2016, 08:27:59 AM
Will ther be option to craft ammo somehow?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 16, 2016, 08:46:08 AM
Electrical damage?

EMP in the base game does electrical damage. You can look up the stats of Devilstrand apparel and see it actually provides armor against electrical but since nothing else uses that damage type and humans are already unaffected by EMP its completely pointless.

Will ther be option to craft ammo somehow?

All ammo will be craftable but locked behind certain requirements (research, production equipment). The plan right now is to use facilities linked to workbenches, e.g. you need to purchase an advanced nano-forge from an exotic goods trader before you can produce charge rifles and their ammo.

Advanced ammo types will require additional resources besides steel/plasteel, e.g. crafting explosives (frag grenades, HE mortar shells, etc.) needs raw explosives harvested from domesticated boomalopes, for incendiary ammo there will be a new plant you can grow which yields incendiary fluid but ignites at temperatures above 21°C.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: DestroyX on April 16, 2016, 09:14:51 AM
Does this mean CR disables the vanilla behaviour of auto-killing downed raiders then?

Not sure which behavior you're talking about, pawns shouldn't attack downed enemies to begin with.

*snip*



i think what he means is that currently some enemy raiders just die to basically.. randomness.

you can hit 2 bodyparts with 1 hp damage and at least some enemy will still die from it instead of being incapped.
i made a thread about it before, and i guess this is what he means.

also, i second his question :D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Tig2 on April 16, 2016, 09:17:30 AM

Will ther be option to craft ammo somehow?

All ammo will be craftable but locked behind certain requirements (research, production equipment). The plan right now is to use facilities linked to workbenches, e.g. you need to purchase an advanced nano-forge from an exotic goods trader before you can produce charge rifles and their ammo.

Advanced ammo types will require additional resources besides steel/plasteel, e.g. crafting explosives (frag grenades, HE mortar shells, etc.) needs raw explosives harvested from domesticated boomalopes, for incendiary ammo there will be a new plant you can grow which yields incendiary fluid but ignites at temperatures above 21°C.

Nice! cant wait to try this ^^
On the other hand. Will there be alternative source of explosives other than boomalopes/boomrats? Like a research you can make to turn incendiary liquid into a explosive compound?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Rahjital on April 16, 2016, 09:18:04 AM
Does this mean CR disables the vanilla behaviour of auto-killing downed raiders then?

Not sure which behavior you're talking about, pawns shouldn't attack downed enemies to begin with.

I meant how most raiders that should be incapped end up dead instead, even if they don't have any life threatening injuries. It's needed in vanilla because people take days to bleed out, but it shouldn't be needed anymore if combat is realistic.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 16, 2016, 10:22:04 AM

Will ther be option to craft ammo somehow?

All ammo will be craftable but locked behind certain requirements (research, production equipment). The plan right now is to use facilities linked to workbenches, e.g. you need to purchase an advanced nano-forge from an exotic goods trader before you can produce charge rifles and their ammo.

Advanced ammo types will require additional resources besides steel/plasteel, e.g. crafting explosives (frag grenades, HE mortar shells, etc.) needs raw explosives harvested from domesticated boomalopes, for incendiary ammo there will be a new plant you can grow which yields incendiary fluid but ignites at temperatures above 21°C.

Nice! cant wait to try this ^^
On the other hand. Will there be alternative source of explosives other than boomalopes/boomrats? Like a research you can make to turn incendiary liquid into a explosive compound?
Speaking of which, how will A13's new crafting system and different traders(I hear space-traders are a lot more rare now) effect the planned gun/ammo making system?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: tks_ftw on April 16, 2016, 02:09:29 PM
Really looking forward to CR for A13, but I was wondering if you plan to have a compatibility patch with EPOE again.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 16, 2016, 02:22:49 PM

I meant how most raiders that should be incapped end up dead instead, even if they don't have any life threatening injuries. It's needed in vanilla because people take days to bleed out, but it shouldn't be needed anymore if combat is realistic.

Ah, I thought you were talking about colonists going out of their way to shoot downed enemies dead, this makes more sense. I currently have no plans to disable the storyteller auto-death. Should it cause issues in combination with beanbags during playtesting I will have a look, although it would also likely require further increases to bleed rates, otherwise you could easily get 15-20 prisoners out of a single raid.

Speaking of which, how will A13's new crafting system and different traders(I hear space-traders are a lot more rare now) effect the planned gun/ammo making system?

I don't see how trader changes would affect ammo crafting. The entire idea behind crafting things yourself is that you put in additional work in exchange for a reduction in material price and more importantly, a reliable supply. It will always be preferable to produce your ammo for reliability alone, unless you have a huge surplus of money/shortage of workforce.

Really looking forward to CR for A13, but I was wondering if you plan to have a compatibility patch with EPOE again.

Unless EPOE changed something the old patch should still work with the new version.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Tig2 on April 16, 2016, 02:24:17 PM
Really looking forward to CR for A13, but I was wondering if you plan to have a compatibility patch with EPOE again.

Or Rimsenal. That will be grate!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 16, 2016, 06:57:21 PM
Speaking of which, how will A13's new crafting system and different traders(I hear space-traders are a lot more rare now) effect the planned gun/ammo making system?

I don't see how trader changes would affect ammo crafting. The entire idea behind crafting things yourself is that you put in additional work in exchange for a reduction in material price and more importantly, a reliable supply. It will always be preferable to produce your ammo for reliability alone, unless you have a huge surplus of money/shortage of workforce.
I was just wondering because there was some talk about some high-tech stuff(Ex: charge rifle bullets I think?) needing things bought from traders to craft, and apparently, space-traders are rare now or something like that. I figured the normal ammo making won't be very effected, but wondered about the special ammo.

Though, on second thought, I guess getting those should be difficult anyhow.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Kyle23011 on April 17, 2016, 01:13:29 PM
I know you are working very hard NoImage, but do you have a rough estimate on when your mod will be done for A13?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: DestroyX on April 17, 2016, 02:05:04 PM
he said it might take a week or so, since dark souls 3 came out.

cant blame him :D

i'd really love the update tho, too, just came back to rimworld after like a year, so i really look forward to it!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 17, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
In terms of progress today was spent mostly implementing the various new UI elements. The inventory menu, ammo selection and loadout manager screen now all work as intended.

(http://i.imgur.com/wdwtWAH.png)

Tomorrow I'll hopefully finish up porting the armor system to A13 and adjusting it for the new ammo system. Then another day or two to implement the actual loadout AI and a bunch of misc functionality. After that I'll probably put out a pre-release version as I put in some additional functionality and balance things properly.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Archadeas on April 17, 2016, 04:36:07 PM
Any chance of an unload function and will raiders carry reserves of ammo or be exempt?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Tinkerer on April 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
Wow this looks awesome! I can't wait for this to be released! Will you have a donation link?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Ghizmo on April 18, 2016, 02:22:03 AM
In terms of progress today was spent mostly implementing the various new UI elements. The inventory menu, ammo selection and loadout manager screen now all work as intended.
..
Tomorrow I'll hopefully finish up porting the armor system to A13 and adjusting it for the new ammo system. Then another day or two to implement the actual loadout AI and a bunch of misc functionality. After that I'll probably put out a pre-release version as I put in some additional functionality and balance things properly.

 :-* C(Cos there is no emoticon for hugs)
Waiting ever so patiently :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 18, 2016, 03:24:23 AM
Will it need a new game, or will it be compatible with old saves?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Tig2 on April 18, 2016, 07:55:57 AM
Are you planing to add ammo to sentry/stationary guns? Belt feed or ammo crate next to it ? Similar to mortars ect.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 18, 2016, 01:21:44 PM
Any chance of an unload function and will raiders carry reserves of ammo or be exempt?

Hitting the reload button deposits all the ammo from the current magazine into the inventory. I've added the possibility to reload when out of ammo now so you should be able to unload the gun that way. Raiders are subject to ammo and inventory restrictions same as the player.

Will you have a donation link?

No

Will it need a new game, or will it be compatible with old saves?

The last version was for A12, savegames are incompatible by default.

Are you planing to add ammo to sentry/stationary guns? Belt feed or ammo crate next to it ? Similar to mortars ect.

It probably won't be in the initial A13 release but I do want to extend both ammo and aim modes to turrets. Manned turrets will try to draw from the operator's inventory first and if that fails the operator will go out to fetch more, just like mortars currently work. Ammo switching should work the same as with regular guns so once that functionality is in the three different mortars will all be replaced by one mortar with different shell types.

For automatic guns they'll either have an internal ammo storage or require a hopper attached to them. I'd prefer to implement the internal storage but depending on how much time I'll have by the end I might just go for hoppers.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: PotatoeTater on April 18, 2016, 02:08:24 PM
Looking forward to the release for A13, the new features look amazing.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Archadeas on April 18, 2016, 02:28:56 PM
That pleases me greatly as I hate games that make you restricted on ammo, but the enemy has unlimited ammo and when you do kill them, they have nothing. Still any plans for rubberized ammo. Also, non unlimited grenades/single use storable grenades? My current "SWAT" team(team of 6) has 3 maces, 3 ballistic shield, 2 mp5s a SVU, all in ballistic plates, helms, Light power armor, etc(modded). But they could use some more non lethal methods to keep the riots down. Tasers, flash bangs, sting grenades, tear gas, etc would make the riots more manageable instead of having one start a fight(when everyone is happy) in the kitchen, you go and beat him with wooden clubs to not hurt him so bad, he lives, but you ripped off both his arms and now have to reload or put him down.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 18, 2016, 02:37:51 PM
In terms of progress today was spent mostly implementing the various new UI elements. The inventory menu, ammo selection and loadout manager screen now all work as intended.

That screenshot makes me happy. This game is going to be so much better when you get done. I'm working on a mod for my personal use to slow down the start of the game, and using the mod "right tool for the job" to implement tools required to mine at any decent speed,etc., and it bugs me that if I give someone a pickaxe he can't carry a gun along with it. This is going to open up a bunch of possibilities for better play, beyond just combat.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: nuschler22 on April 18, 2016, 03:37:34 PM
Looking forward to this mod.

The base game is virtually unplayable without it, especially this version.

Just got manhandled by a group of wild boars with 7 colonists with good weapons. 
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 19, 2016, 03:57:59 AM
Will it need a new game, or will it be compatible with old saves?

The last version was for A12, savegames are incompatible by default.
You misunderstood my question. I have a A13 colony that I don't want to get rid of, so I was wondering if we could add CR(when it comes out) to a existing A13 colony and get it to work, or if it'll need a new one.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Mathenaut on April 19, 2016, 05:34:14 AM
Hmm. Not sure how I feel about ammo as actual items. I have enough to micromanage between combat and stockpiles as is. Will see how it goes though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: harpyeagle on April 19, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
I'm glad to hear that development has resumed, A13 just isn't complete for me with CR.

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 19, 2016, 03:10:59 PM
Progress going steady, (re-)implemented the armor system yesterday with support for a few new things such as secondary damage types which can, among other things, bypass armor if the projectile penetrates, so if you fire a HE round at a Centipede the bullet will do its normal projectile damage with all the damage reductions, then hit whatever internal body part it impacted with additional explosion damage.

From here on out its just a matter of knocking out a number of minor yet vital points on the todo list before I can start putting in the XML work for the release. Among other things I've implemented some new loadbearing gear:
(http://i.imgur.com/KuXru80.png)
Tactical vests and backpacks will be important to have in firefights if you want to carry all the ammo, sidearms and other gear you need since the base inventory space of a pawn is quite limited. These loadbearing items go into the accessory slot (same as the personal shield) and can be worn on top of all regular apparel like parkas and power armor.

Still any plans for rubberized ammo.

I don't plan on including any non-lethal weapons beyond beanbags and flashbang grenades since a) I don't really want to introduce another crafting resource in the form of rubber and b) I think I've milked enough ammo art out of Afriend and he deserves a break.

I do have plans for one last update after this one in which I'll overhaul melee combat and one of the things I want to look into is a handcuffing mechanic where you equip handcuffs as a melee weapon and depending on your melee skill you have a chance to handcuff and temporarily immobilize the target. This in conjunction with the aforementioned beanbags and flashbangs will be the extend of non-lethal weaponry I am willing to add.

You misunderstood my question. I have a A13 colony that I don't want to get rid of, so I was wondering if we could add CR(when it comes out) to a existing A13 colony and get it to work, or if it'll need a new one.

In that case, probably not. This mod is just too big and makes too many changes to play nice with existing saves.

Hmm. Not sure how I feel about ammo as actual items. I have enough to micromanage between combat and stockpiles as is. Will see how it goes though.

I'm not particularly keen on micromanaging ammo on every colonist either, which is why the loadout manager will be designed to minimize the need for that as much as possible.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: DestroyX on April 19, 2016, 05:11:39 PM
damn, every post just fuels the hype :D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: wabash on April 19, 2016, 07:48:32 PM
Do you believe it would be possible to add magazines to this game? I do understand it would probably be a hassle and another step, just a curiosity.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Profugo Barbatus on April 19, 2016, 09:22:38 PM
damn, every post just fuels the hype :D

As am I, Once I played CR back in A12, I've found it painfully hard to play without it. I actually enjoy logistics and the handling/micromanagement that comes from it, so I am excited for the ammunition system. I'll probably spend the first few days of the release hammering the other weapon mods out there to be compatible though.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Agent00Soul on April 20, 2016, 12:04:43 AM
damn, every post just fuels the hype :D

As am I, Once I played CR back in A12, I've found it painfully hard to play without it. I actually enjoy logistics and the handling/micromanagement that comes from it, so I am excited for the ammunition system. I'll probably spend the first few days of the release hammering the other weapon mods out there to be compatible though.

I agree.. Once you've played with it you can't go back..
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: DestroyX on April 20, 2016, 01:58:13 AM
well, i havent really played with it before, since i always had tons of (rather overpowered tbh) weapon mods before and didnt really wanted to play without it.

however, i figured that the game just isnt fun that way.

so.. i'm kinda glad that there is some ammo system now actually, not since i'm into micromanagement, but because ranged weapons are way too good compared with melee (at least if you're not 100% stocked on power armor and plasteel weapons :D) especially early on, i'm really curious to see how it works out.

and i reaaaaly hope the non lethal stuff works properly.
but i guess there will still be the problematic vanilla behaviour where the storyteller just kills incapped pawns off, because... well, reasons.
i'd rather have 10 prisoners per raid for organ harvesting than 1-2 :P
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: carpediembr on April 20, 2016, 03:20:59 AM
well, i havent really played with it before, since i always had tons of (rather overpowered tbh) weapon mods before and didnt really wanted to play without it.

however, i figured that the game just isnt fun that way.

so.. i'm kinda glad that there is some ammo system now actually, not since i'm into micromanagement, but because ranged weapons are way too good compared with melee (at least if you're not 100% stocked on power armor and plasteel weapons :D) especially early on, i'm really curious to see how it works out.

and i reaaaaly hope the non lethal stuff works properly.
but i guess there will still be the problematic vanilla behaviour where the storyteller just kills incapped pawns off, because... well, reasons.
i'd rather have 10 prisoners per raid for organ harvesting than 1-2 :P

I agree..  never used CR on A12, and just was made aware now. It is really hard to find a well balanced mod, the only one I could fnd on A12 was the hardcore one, but even that one, at the mid-end stages you get pretty invencible .
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 20, 2016, 04:11:59 AM
Progress going steady, (re-)implemented the armor system yesterday with support for a few new things such as secondary damage types which can, among other things, bypass armor if the projectile penetrates, so if you fire a HE round at a Centipede the bullet will do its normal projectile damage with all the damage reductions, then hit whatever internal body part it impacted with additional explosion damage.
Say, if a animal or pawn got hit by a HE round, what would be the chances of said pawn surviving?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: winowmak3r on April 20, 2016, 04:29:51 AM
Really looking forward to this mod. Each update gets me more excited, can't wait!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Professor Cupcake on April 20, 2016, 06:47:17 AM
Will there be any option to customise which features are enabled client-side?
For example, I really like having the magazine counts and the need to reload, but I'm not so sure I'm okay with having limited ammo.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: porcupine on April 20, 2016, 10:19:02 PM
Great, now I can't be inspired to start a new colony until this mod is out again.  I had forgotten all about it until checking the mods (ran the modvarietypack in A12, though parts were mega unbalanced), and going .... ohhh yeah... crap.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 20, 2016, 10:38:25 PM
I haven't seen anything mentioned about how tribal weapons work so far, at least from what I've read. Are things like pilas and bows also having ammo restrictions? I might start looking into great-bow crafting for early ammo conversation if you don't have to rely on crafting excess arrows or otherwise.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 20, 2016, 10:49:09 PM
Hey noimage,

Is there a way to translate your weapon accuracy values, like a comparison with vanilla, since they're so different? Like a formula I should go looking for or a 1:1 comparison with real world bullet mechanics, say in a spreadsheet somewhere?

Working on a mod for myself and I'd like to make it compatible, but instead of straightforward 0.62 mid accuracy you have used realistic values like from real-world bullets, which is awesome, but I'd like to figure out how to apply that to my own stuff, like what the accuracy should be like for those values etc.

If you don't have time to deal with my question, no worries.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 21, 2016, 03:32:56 AM
I haven't seen anything mentioned about how tribal weapons work so far, at least from what I've read. Are things like pilas and bows also having ammo restrictions? I might start looking into great-bow crafting for early ammo conversation if you don't have to rely on crafting excess arrows or otherwise.
I asked something among those lines a while back, and I'm about 80% sure he said 'yes' to that question.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: A Friend on April 21, 2016, 04:25:49 AM
I haven't seen anything mentioned about how tribal weapons work so far, at least from what I've read. Are things like pilas and bows also having ammo restrictions?

(http://i.imgur.com/hHMbRMm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Plwc76F.png)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 21, 2016, 04:44:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/hHMbRMm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Plwc76F.png)
WHERES MY PILA BRAH

Those look great, good to know arrows will be in.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Headshotkill on April 21, 2016, 05:09:24 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/hHMbRMm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Plwc76F.png)
WHERES MY PILA BRAH

Those look great, good to know arrows will be in.

I think that singular "arrow" on the top is a pila, those can have feathers too!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 05:31:59 AM
Do you believe it would be possible to add magazines to this game? I do understand it would probably be a hassle and another step, just a curiosity.

Its technically feasible, yes. You'd need to make magazines with their own ThingContainer and add the mechanics for filling them, then adjust the ammo system to feed from magazines instead of directly from inventory.

Will there be any option to customise which features are enabled client-side?
For example, I really like having the magazine counts and the need to reload, but I'm not so sure I'm okay with having limited ammo.

While it is possible from a technical standpoint, I'm not planning on adding any MCM options or the like.

Hey noimage,

Is there a way to translate your weapon accuracy values, like a comparison with vanilla, since they're so different? Like a formula I should go looking for or a 1:1 comparison with real world bullet mechanics, say in a spreadsheet somewhere?

Working on a mod for myself and I'd like to make it compatible, but instead of straightforward 0.62 mid accuracy you have used realistic values like from real-world bullets, which is awesome, but I'd like to figure out how to apply that to my own stuff, like what the accuracy should be like for those values etc.

If you don't have time to deal with my question, no worries.

I do keep all my weapon data in spreadsheets. Some of the values are calculated using formulas while some other stuff like recoil and bulk I use formulas to get a baseline, then fudge it a bit as necessary. I used to publish those tables in back in A8-9 but I don't think anyone actually used them for anything.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 21, 2016, 06:21:20 AM
I just had a thought seeing my incapable-of-violence doctor waiting behind the fighters ready to drag whoever gets incapacitated to the hospital.
Could there be a way to have your non-combat personal stand by with some meds, then have them treat anyone who gets too injured right there on the battlefield?
Edit: Like, just stop the bleeding really quick or something.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Madpizzaboy on April 21, 2016, 06:22:47 AM
when this mod are going to be compatible with alpha 13 ?? im stil waiting lol
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Fafn1r on April 21, 2016, 07:03:39 AM
I just had a thought seeing my incapable-of-violence doctor waiting behind the fighters ready to drag whoever gets incapacitated to the hospital.
Could there be a way to have your non-combat personal stand by with some meds, then have them treat anyone who gets too injured right there on the battlefield?
Edit: Like, just stop the bleeding really quick or something.

You can do it even in vanilla Rimworld, although CR makes it a bit easier with slower combat pace. Just put a makeshift bed and few medical supplies right behind your defenses.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 21, 2016, 08:56:20 AM
I do keep all my weapon data in spreadsheets. Some of the values are calculated using formulas while some other stuff like recoil and bulk I use formulas to get a baseline, then fudge it a bit as necessary. I used to publish those tables in back in A8-9 but I don't think anyone actually used them for anything.

I would love to take a look at one when you're done, or if you're not changing anything and already have one lying around.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Frug on April 21, 2016, 10:05:53 AM
can't wait until it's updated!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Korn.Mil on April 21, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
ME TOO! Counting days till this mod releases
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Frug on April 21, 2016, 04:28:22 PM
Just a quick question: How many rounds will be produced per crafting action when making ammunition?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PM
Quick progress update, all the coding work is done now and except for a few minor issues everything runs more or less smoothly now. Now all that's left is to put all the pieces into the actual game and create the necessary XML files for everything, a good portion of that was done today. Depending on how fast fluffy can finish up his work on the loadout manager I'll hopefully be able to put out a full or pre-release in time for the weekend.

I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

(http://i.imgur.com/2ZODu3S.png)

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

I just had a thought seeing my incapable-of-violence doctor waiting behind the fighters ready to drag whoever gets incapacitated to the hospital.
Could there be a way to have your non-combat personal stand by with some meds, then have them treat anyone who gets too injured right there on the battlefield?
Edit: Like, just stop the bleeding really quick or something.

Right now you can simply set down a sleeping spot and designate it as a medical bed. With the inventory system you can even have your medic carry a stock of medicine in his inventory. While it would be possible to automate the whole thing to some degree it would require a fair amount of AI work and since I'm trying to wrap things up I won't be making any big additions like that anymore.

I would love to take a look at one when you're done, or if you're not changing anything and already have one lying around.

Sure, just remind me after this release is out and I'll send you my tables.

Just a quick question: How many rounds will be produced per crafting action when making ammunition?

I haven't gotten to balancing yet but it'll probably be somewhere in the realm of 1 steel ($2) = 15 small rifle/pistol bullets ($0.15 each for a total of $2.25). Of course, this is subject to change depending on how things turn out once I start playtesting things.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Mathenaut on April 21, 2016, 06:52:38 PM
I'm not particularly keen on micromanaging ammo on every colonist either, which is why the loadout manager will be designed to minimize the need for that as much as possible.

Is this about wanting 'realism', or is the idea to balance the different weapon types? Is there a generic 'ammo' that is general use, or will we need to manage different types for every different weapon?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 21, 2016, 06:54:01 PM
I just had a thought seeing my incapable-of-violence doctor waiting behind the fighters ready to drag whoever gets incapacitated to the hospital.
Could there be a way to have your non-combat personal stand by with some meds, then have them treat anyone who gets too injured right there on the battlefield?
Edit: Like, just stop the bleeding really quick or something.

Right now you can simply set down a sleeping spot and designate it as a medical bed. With the inventory system you can even have your medic carry a stock of medicine in his inventory. While it would be possible to automate the whole thing to some degree it would require a fair amount of AI work and since I'm trying to wrap things up I won't be making any big additions like that anymore.
I was thinking something more among the lines of a 'quick treatment' button that will make doctors just patch up the big bleeding wounds and ignore the small minor wounds instead of treating them all and taking forever to do so.
Though, if they can carry around meds, that would speed things up too, so I guess it works.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: porcupine on April 21, 2016, 08:01:18 PM
I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Absolutely fscking fantastic!  This sounds like the sort of thing that should be grown at a base's entrance, just in case :D.  Love it!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 22, 2016, 03:12:55 AM
I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Absolutely fscking fantastic!  This sounds like the sort of thing that should be grown at a base's entrance, just in case :D.  Love it!
And have them spontaneously combust when the pawns walking back and forth and opening the door every day raises the temperature to 21°C? :P

This would probably be really annoying to grow in a desert. Hey, another reason to settle in cold biomes!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: porcupine on April 22, 2016, 12:17:40 PM
I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Absolutely fscking fantastic!  This sounds like the sort of thing that should be grown at a base's entrance, just in case :D.  Love it!
And have them spontaneously combust when the pawns walking back and forth and opening the door every day raises the temperature to 21°C? :P

This would probably be really annoying to grow in a desert. Hey, another reason to settle in cold biomes!

Heh, or in a desert during a solar flare :D.

Makes me think of don't starve actually, specifically, endothermic fire pits:

http://dont-starve-game.wikia.com/wiki/Endothermic_Fire_Pit#Endothermic_Fire_Pit
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 22, 2016, 06:07:27 PM
Depending on how fast fluffy can finish up his work on the loadout manager I'll hopefully be able to put out a full or pre-release in time for the weekend.
Officially sitting here waiting like an idiot.

I would love to take a look at one when you're done, or if you're not changing anything and already have one lying around.

Sure, just remind me after this release is out and I'll send you my tables.

Thanks!
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 22, 2016, 06:15:35 PM
Is this about wanting 'realism', or is the idea to balance the different weapon types? Is there a generic 'ammo' that is general use, or will we need to manage different types for every different weapon?

Calibers are weapon-specific, i.e. an assault rifle fires 5.56mm, sniper rifle and LMG fire 7.62mm, etc. Despite the name I don't add things just for the sake of realism. Every feature is implemented first and foremost because I think it makes for more interesting gameplay. My general approach is that video games are about making interesting decisions.

With vanilla Rimworld, choosing the right loadout for your pawns is trivial, you just go with whatever gun has the shortest time to kill the enemy. It was the obvious choice simply because there was no reason not to. The initial CR release already improved on that by adding weight-based penalties to guns, so you had to choose whether you wanted your non-combatants to run around with assault rifles all day or just give them pistols for self-defense.

Ammo expands on this even further by attaching a material cost to using a certain gun. That fancy charge rifle you have might be the best weapon you have right now but you might have only so much ammo and no means to reliably obtain more, so until you get a bigger stockpile you might want to reserve it for that time a bunch of Centipedes drop in rather than waste it on a bunch of tribals. You have to balance combat effectiveness versus economic effectiveness as you are encouraged to finish firefights using as few resources as possible. This means you need to assess the situation, decide on the most effective course of action and then execute it, i.e. make interesting decisions.

Similarly, having different ammo types allows for more dynamic combat as weapons can perform different roles as needed. Your grenadier equipped with an RPG-7 might have a number of different grenades equipped to deal with situations as they come up. If a group of heavily armored enemies has clustered together behind high cover a thermobaric rocket might take them out quickly with a strong explosion, whereas a group of tribals in the open might be dispersed by firing a fragmentation rocket into the middle of their formation. And if a few isolated enemies manage to close in you might choose to forgo the rocket launcher entirely and switch to your SMG instead. Again, decisions have to be made depending on the tactical situation.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: 25wes25 on April 22, 2016, 06:41:46 PM
Various types of ammunition like you just described would be awesome, just curious if there would be any way for raiders to essentially 'give up' and run once they ran through all their ammo. Or rather switch to melee/loot if possible to keep up the offensive. I wouldn't want raiders to fire a handful of rounds each and then bail, but at the same time I don't want them to fire everything they have and then suicide charge my newly brought up minigun every single time.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 22, 2016, 07:45:17 PM
If you can keep up with the ammo consumption of that minigun and actually wait till the enemy runs out of bullets each time, I think you'll deserve that win.

Now, I'm pretty sure a minigun and ammo for the minigun weighs a lot, and the gun also fires loads of bullets.
Here's a quote from before.
If a Centipede has 100kg of carrying capacity and 40kg are taken up by the minigun it would have room for 2400 rounds. At 300 rounds per burst you could sit out 8 bursts and then not have to worry because the Centipede is out of ammo. Of course the downside to this strategy is you have to sit out and survive 8 bursts from a minigun. The same goes for the player too, if you're using machine guns against tribals you can simply go full auto and spray them with fire but it will cost you in ammo, so you need to balance volume of fire against ammo consumption.
If we say these weight stats is the same as the actual game, it means with a 100kg capacity, you can carry the minigun, and 60kg of ammo, which is a total of 8 bursts.
I'm pretty sure a colonist won't be able to carry like, 0.1 tons of stuff, so you'll probably get less than that, meaning you'll have >8 tries to take down every raider, and that's if you didn't fire anything while the enemy wasted their bullets.

Though, speaking of ammo limits, I thought of something while on the 'what can noncombatants do during a fight' train of thought.
Then I realized something. Ammo carriers. Pawns can only carry so much ammo, and some guns will eat through ammo rather fast. Having someone on standby with a inventory full of ammo to give out reloads could be very useful.
On the same train of thought, it'd be cool if enemy raiders had a 'ammo carrier' who supplies some of them with ammo(so you might be able to wait out that pirate with a LMG until he runs out of ammo... just for him to get a refill from a ammo carrier on standby.)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 22, 2016, 08:13:12 PM
On the same train of thought, it'd be cool if enemy raiders had a 'ammo carrier' who supplies some of them with ammo

Warg + saddlebags, that's my vote.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AseaHeru on April 22, 2016, 08:17:26 PM
 Or let groups of pawns share rounds, so a pawn with an AR has some rounds for the groups LMG or similar.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: 25wes25 on April 22, 2016, 11:24:44 PM
Allen, what I more so meant was that if the raiders are affected by ammo, I would prefer that they only switch to Melee and charge if they're either unable to scavenge ammo and it's pretty obvious from their perspective that they could win.

For example the last 10 raiders exhaust the majority of their ammo and decide to charge in with Melee because all the colonies turrets in sight were destroyed and there were only a handful of colonists left alive. I.e. The Pirates charge if they think they can win otherwise if it's a lengthy and deadly gunfight then they eventually just bail.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 22, 2016, 11:49:48 PM
Allen, what I more so meant was that if the raiders are affected by ammo, I would prefer that they only switch to Melee and charge if they're either unable to scavenge ammo and it's pretty obvious from their perspective that they could win.

For example the last 10 raiders exhaust the majority of their ammo and decide to charge in with Melee because all the colonies turrets in sight were destroyed and there were only a handful of colonists left alive. I.e. The Pirates charge if they think they can win otherwise if it's a lengthy and deadly gunfight then they eventually just bail.

I don't know much about the AI routines in this game (I've looked through source code but not AI source code), but it generally takes multiple generations of a AAA game to get to the point that the AI is this calculating (I've some experience with Fallout 4 and NPCs aren't at this point yet). Most games it's a distance check to the nearest enemy, then they switch to melee.

Currently (from experience) the entire AI calculation for attacks is "we've lost 1/3 (or whaver percentage) of our peeps, bail." Which is a simple count of pawns alive vs. pawns that attacked, checked (probably) only on attacker pawn death.

But I agree, that is an optimal scenario, and I'd like to see it available at some point. I don't think it'd be impossibly complicated, but perhaps beyond the scope of the next release of this mod.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: 25wes25 on April 23, 2016, 12:09:49 AM
I don't know much about the AI routines in this game (I've looked through source code but not AI source code), but it generally takes multiple generations of a AAA game to get to the point that the AI is this calculating (I've some experience with Fallout 4 and NPCs aren't at this point yet). Most games it's a distance check to the nearest enemy, then they switch to melee.

Currently (from experience) the entire AI calculation for attacks is "we've lost 1/3 (or whaver percentage) of our peeps, bail." Which is a simple count of pawns alive vs. pawns that attacked, checked (probably) only on attacker pawn death.

But I agree, that is an optimal scenario, and I'd like to see it available at some point. I don't think it'd be impossibly complicated, but perhaps beyond the scope of the next release of this mod.
AI is completely different for every game, in Fallout AI checks distance because AI have unlimited ammo. I haven't seen the AI code for Rimworld either but obviously there's no ammo in the base game so we'd probably have to have either modding tools, long ass work arounds, or the implementation of hesitant AI into the base game.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 23, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
we'd probably have to have either modding tools, long ass work arounds, or the implementation of hesitant AI into the base game.

That's all I was saying, when I went back to edit I took another look at your post and realized you were just talking theoreticals ("I was just wondering") and I probably shouldn't have posted since what I wrote probably came across as "you're wrong on the Internet." Was just thinking out loud that this implementation of CR will probably not involve the level of AI that we'd all prefer since it is so complicated just on a base level compared to anything that has come before it.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: porcupine on April 23, 2016, 01:08:37 AM
Quick progress update, all the coding work is done now and except for a few minor issues everything runs more or less smoothly now. Now all that's left is to put all the pieces into the actual game and create the necessary XML files for everything, a good portion of that was done today. Depending on how fast fluffy can finish up his work on the loadout manager I'll hopefully be able to put out a full or pre-release in time for the weekend.

Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet? :D
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 23, 2016, 01:29:30 AM
For me, it's the weekend right now, so I'm trying really hard not to check the computer every hour. I only succeeded every other hour :P
Though a question regarding the HE ammo.
If the bullet hits a body part and explodes, will that do any damage to surrounding body parts? Like, will a HE bullet hitting a nose cause the entire head to get blasted off, or just the nose?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 23, 2016, 01:33:41 AM
I'm trying really hard not to check the computer every hour. I only succeeded every other hour :P

You, sir, are the embodiment of restraint. So far I'm only succeeding in posting every other hour.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: 25wes25 on April 23, 2016, 03:07:26 AM
That's all I was saying, when I went back to edit I took another look at your post and realized you were just talking theoreticals ("I was just wondering") and I probably shouldn't have posted since what I wrote probably came across as "you're wrong on the Internet." Was just thinking out loud that this implementation of CR will probably not involve the level of AI that we'd all prefer since it is so complicated just on a base level compared to anything that has come before it.
Hah, no sweat man. Discussion is always a good thing, without it nothing gets accomplished.  :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Frug on April 23, 2016, 09:27:28 AM
Fuckin... Too pumped.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 23, 2016, 05:50:00 PM
I keep looking at the github hoping to see a new commit to the pull request and everytime it's always the same thing.

i cri evry time

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: porcupine on April 23, 2016, 09:45:54 PM
I keep looking at the github hoping to see a new commit to the pull request and everytime it's always the same thing.

i cri evry time

I think we might have scared NoImageAvailable away :\
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: AllenWL on April 23, 2016, 10:18:45 PM
Considering how he was almost posting once a day before, possibly.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Frug on April 23, 2016, 11:28:04 PM
Considering how he was almost posting once a day before, possibly.
Ye, I cri ;-; PLS, I NEED SUMMA DAT REALISM
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 24, 2016, 03:09:25 AM
Sorry about the delay guys, sudden illness has been limiting the amount of time I've been able to spend at a computer so productivity has been low.
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Madpizzaboy on April 24, 2016, 03:21:10 AM
its alright , get well soon  :)
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 25, 2016, 03:55:00 PM
H Y P E
Y
P
E

Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.5.0 (20.03.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 04:05:24 PM
H Y P E
Y       P
P       Y
E P Y H
FTFY
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 25, 2016, 04:08:09 PM
Thank you so much NoImageAvailable!
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 04:16:25 PM
Alright! Testing begins!

Here's some questions, since you're probably already writing the answers.

Old EPOE patch still good or no? I see it's just bodyparts.

Will you be waiting on combat realism defense until pre-release is ironed out?

Are you well? (hope so)

What is the question to life the universe and everything?
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) Development resumed
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 25, 2016, 04:23:01 PM
I finally managed to finish a version good enough for a pre-release. Keep in mind that while I tested the basic functionality, I haven't done any playtesting or balancing yet so expect bugs and balancing issues. Several planned features are also missing still, such as ammo consumption for turrets. These will be added as I can, however the pace might be slow due to continuing illness.

The main feature of this update is the inventory and ammunition system. I realize this is a rather divisive topic and finding the right balance will be tricky, therefore it is all the more important that you guys give feedback, whether positive or negative, on the new features, so I can make sure the mod is the best it can be before putting the lid on it.

Now, onto the highlights:

Inventory:

(http://i.imgur.com/c5yv7kd.png)

Pawns can carry a large variety of items in their pockets. Simply select a pawn, right-click and select the "Pick up" option, same way you would equip a gun or force-wear apparel. To reload a gun you need to have ammo (obtained through trade, loot or crafting) in your inventory.

If you have multiple ammo types you can switch between them by right-clicking the reload button to bring up the list of available ammo types. The reload icon will change to reflect the currently selected ammo type. Note that you need to still reload the gun before the new ammo type is actually loaded. The magazine counter will list the currently loaded ammo type.

Loadout manager:

Now it would be quite tedious if you had to manually tell your pawns to restock their ammo after every firefight. For that reason each pawn can now be assigned a loadout from the same menu as outfits:

(http://i.imgur.com/fmAFoOe.png)

Here you can assign loadouts to pawns and open the loadout manager:

(http://i.imgur.com/KkDF13F.png)

To create a new loadout select an item from the list on the right and input a count. Pawns will automatically go through the list from top to bottom and fill their inventories until they have the amount specified. If a pawn doesn't have enough inventory space to carry all of it they will prioritize by list order, e.g. if the list goes assault rifle -> 5.56mm ammo -> knife -> pistol -> pistol ammo the pawn will first pick up the assault rifle, the ammo for it, then the knife and if he doesn't have enough space for the pistol + ammo then he won't pick it up.

For the download and a more complete changelog, see the Github release page linked in the OP.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 25, 2016, 04:24:43 PM
Old EPOE patch still good or no? I see it's just bodyparts.

Should still be good unless EPOE changed ribs. Worst case you can simply load EPOE after CR, all it'll change is ribs will have 8 health instead of 13.

Quote
Will you be waiting on combat realism defense until pre-release is ironed out?

CR Defence is coming once turret ammo is in
Title: Re: [A12] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) Development resumed
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
Thanks for the quick answers :)

For the download and a more complete changelog, see the Github release page linked in the OP.

I may be misreading, but just in case I'm not, the release page linked is 1.5.0. I went to 1.6.0 and only source is at the bottom (looks like everything is there though). I know how github works so I just downloaded the whole updated thing before you were done with this post anyway, but some people may still accidentally dl 1.5.0 or something. Just FYI. I feel like I'm harassing a sick person, so please don't mind me, I'm getting off work shortly and happy to start testing this.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 25, 2016, 04:35:57 PM
Ah, I figured the latest release link would automatically go to the pre-release but apparently not. Thanks for pointing it out, added the direct link to the OP now.

Edit: Just want to point out that I don't mind the issue reports, quite the contrary. Since people were waiting for the A13 release I've been cutting quite a few corners so there's probably some oversights that made it in (hence the pre-release part) and if people point them out I can fix them. Same thing goes for balancing issues, unless people give me feedback I'll never find out about certain issues so I appreciate criticism either way.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 25, 2016, 04:44:45 PM
Haha, I just downloaded the right one before right before reading your guys' posts. Let us be the Guinea pigs for the time being, you can fix bugs when you're better man.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 25, 2016, 05:57:52 PM
Two things I've noticed so far:

The social tab is gone from colonists.

Arrows aren't in the crafting spot at the start, made my attempt at a bare-bones start kinda forfeit.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Madpizzaboy on April 25, 2016, 06:05:27 PM
the social tab gone for me too
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 25, 2016, 06:06:51 PM
Social tab is gone for colonists yet there for animals(pets) which is strange.
If you're using Fluffy's relationship mod you can still see the relationships in there for now until we get a fix. The social functions are working okay, regular chatting and falling in love going on.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 06:41:28 PM
One of my colonists had bulk filled most of the way with just 3 meals in her inventory (4 bulk each). By the time I figured out how to see her max bulk she had muscle parasites (she hadn't when I saw the bulk nearly filled originally). What determines bulk? She is 65 years old, and with the muscle parasites had max 20 bulk so I figure she just can't carry 3 meals and a rifle. Not a big deal.

Ran up on a raider who'd been shot in the arm and the leg and my girl ganked the raider (the girl named mac you see dead was the raider, obviously):

(http://i.imgur.com/BRU3GL2.png)

(I did not force kimmy naked, she joined as my 4th with a pistol and 60ish .45 acp and no clothes)

Kimmy's killshot on Mac was another shot in the same arm as you see. I haven't played with combat realism in a few releases so I don't know if it's normal for that to be lethal. I understand if you can't control the way damage works overall, I'd prefer this over vanilla anyday. Kimmy got another kill earlier, 2nd shot was a straight headshot on a doe so that was awesome.

One final thing, when the raiders were charging, two people with pistols had to wait til pretty close up to be in range, but i'm not sure that's a bad thing - probably a good thing, tired of seeing them try at max range with a pistol from rifle range and waste a whole clip.

Overall I love the ammo and inventory system, everything is working great, reloading works well (though a manual reload will go through reloading with just 3 in the clip and no other ammo to load into the gun and when done will just have 3 in the clip again).

Love the backpack I found on the raider.

500 bullets for 10 steel (or even 17 steel or whatever) seems a little off, seeing as a gun may require 100 steel or a grenade is 1steel per 1 grenade. I haven't looked up close at the size of 500 bullets in a while, but I'd think the steel requirements would be higher.

Would prefer to see like 10 bullets per steel, 10 at a time on repeat. 42 work amount for 500 (and simply making 500 at a time) is pretty fast, sortof trivalizes the whole notion of needing to make ammo. But I understand you weren't going for balance, most likely just wanted to make sure we had 500 ammo to sling at people for testing purposes. Just my 2 cents.

Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: hhowie3 on April 25, 2016, 06:44:53 PM
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do I get the different weapons in the pictures?

Like the Lee-Enfield, M1911, AK-47, etc.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 06:53:04 PM
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do I get the different weapons in the pictures?

Like the Lee-Enfield, M1911, AK-47, etc.

I obviously can't answer the question of "why" but looking through the defs, only the guns you can craft at the machining table are available in this release for whatever reason, so you don't need to go researching everything to see if they'll unlock. Doubt you can get them at traders either, as 47 or enfield don't show up in the xmls.

I was running around looking for the autoturrets til I saw them commented out and went back and read they were removed for now.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: hhowie3 on April 25, 2016, 07:01:03 PM
Ah, alright. Thanks, I was just making sure it wasn't just me making a mistake while downloading the mod. :D
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 25, 2016, 07:06:28 PM
I was running around looking for the autoturrets til I saw them commented out and went back and read they were removed for now.
Okay so turrets are in fact removed? I was afraid it was a mod conflict hah. I thought they just didn't use the ammo system yet.
Also anyone else getting 'an error occurred while loading the map' and unable to load after exiting the game? Also where's the error log it says to check? - I linked the main output log if anyone can make sense of that.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 25, 2016, 07:24:14 PM
I'll have a talk with fluffy about the missing social tab since he's behind the UI additions. There were some last-minute changes that didn't make it into the release because github was being obtuse so it might very well have broken something.

Regarding the AK-47 from the screenshot, that one is from the Rimfire mod. I sent Alistaire the patch for the pre-release and you can download it from the Rimfire thread.

One of my colonists had bulk filled most of the way with just 3 meals in her inventory (4 bulk each). By the time I figured out how to see her max bulk she had muscle parasites (she hadn't when I saw the bulk nearly filled originally). What determines bulk? She is 65 years old, and with the muscle parasites had max 20 bulk so I figure she just can't carry 3 meals and a rifle. Not a big deal.

When selecting a colonist you can click the i button to open their info tab, it'll give you a list of all their stats. Bulk capacity is the space they have in their pockets, etc., it starts at 20 and scales with body size (so teens have less). Beyond that, the only thing that affects it is apparel. The thing to look for in regards to scaling is max weight. If a colonist is frail and has a bad back he still has just as much inventory space but he won't be able to carry nearly as much in terms of weight anymore.

Quote
Kimmy's killshot on Mac was another shot in the same arm as you see. I haven't played with combat realism in a few releases so I don't know if it's normal for that to be lethal. I understand if you can't control the way damage works overall, I'd prefer this over vanilla anyday. Kimmy got another kill earlier, 2nd shot was a straight headshot on a doe so that was awesome.

People usually go down in <6 shots with CR, although a lot of the casualties you'll see are the result of storyteller death, i.e. the pawn is incapacitated but RNG decides you shouldn't get another prisoner.

Quote
500 bullets for 10 steel (or even 17 steel or whatever) seems a little off, seeing as a gun may require 100 steel or a grenade is 1steel per 1 grenade. I haven't looked up close at the size of 500 bullets in a while, but I'd think the steel requirements would be higher.

Would prefer to see like 10 bullets per steel, 10 at a time on repeat. 42 work amount for 500 (and simply making 500 at a time) is pretty fast, sortof trivalizes the whole notion of needing to make ammo. But I understand you weren't going for balance, most likely just wanted to make sure we had 500 ammo to sling at people for testing purposes. Just my 2 cents.

The recipes were calculated under the assumption that 1 steel = 1 kg with 50% waste on top. The reason it seems wacky compared to guns is because they are wacky in the base game. Compare a steel wall (costs 5 steel) to an armor vest (120 steel) and you'll realize you're wearing enough material to make a small building.

Right now I set the steel requirements for ammo pretty low because I wasn't sure how much ammo you actually go through in your average firefight. This should be easier to track now and playtesting will show how much ammo cost is reasonable.

The 42 work amount thing seems like a definitive bug, it should be along the lines of 2500 work per crafting session. I'll have to look into that one and probably get a hotfix with some other stuff that came up so far out by tomorrow.

Okay so turrets are in fact removed? I was afraid it was a mod conflict hah. I thought they just didn't use the ammo system yet.
Also anyone else getting 'an error occurred while loading the map' and unable to load after exiting the game? Also where's the error log it says to check? - I linked the main output log if anyone can make sense of that.

Turrets are temporarily disabled until I can get them to use the ammo system properly. And I looked at your output_log and it looks like the error is coming from Pawn Status Icons rather than CR.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 25, 2016, 07:44:55 PM
Turrets are temporarily disabled until I can get them to use the ammo system properly. And I looked at your output_log and it looks like the error is coming from Pawn Status Icons rather than CR.
Ah, ok sweet thanks for the quick reply. I removed the mod from the save's .xml but it's still not working. Oh well, I'll just restart.

As for the turret/defense pack though, will we need to restart in order to use the content or will it work on existing saves?
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 07:53:18 PM
it starts at 20 and scales with body size
Makes sense, she's not a big colonist.

Quote
People usually go down in <6 shots with CR
I like that, just didn't know if 2 shots in the arm would normally kill someone in CR prior to this - I understand that the game still sortof estimates a hitpoint system or something, it's not dwarf fortress where it takes true anatomical destruction.

Quote
although a lot of the casualties you'll see are the result of storyteller death, i.e. the pawn is incapacitated but RNG decides you shouldn't get another prisoner.
Stupid storytellers! I never knew that was a factor.

Quote
Compare a steel wall (costs 5 steel) to an armor vest (120 steel) and you'll realize you're wearing enough material to make a small building.
I should have thought of this, now I feel dumb. Steel walls are kinda crazy. I'm 90% of the way through with a mod that focuses on more realism (nothing to do with combat), I may take a look at making this not crazy.

Quote
The 42 work amount thing seems like a definitive bug, it should be along the lines of 2500 work per crafting session. I'll have to look into that one and probably get a hotfix with some other stuff that came up so far out by tomorrow.
At least I got one thing right :) They all say 42 work, and I tested again and it looks like it takes about that much for a colonist (it doesn't show it tick down but it's a short amount of time).

Keep up the good work, I'm really enjoying playing this. Can't test much more today but I'll let you know if I see anything else.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: dareddevil7 on April 25, 2016, 09:35:51 PM
I'm getting the pirate loadout generator dummy
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on April 25, 2016, 10:02:13 PM
As of currently, EPOE causes the loadout system to be nonfunctional and removes the context buttons for guns (reloading, snapshot/aimmed, ect).

The patch doesn't do anything either so just a heads up to people.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Tinkerer on April 25, 2016, 10:08:05 PM
I apologize if this is answered anywhere else, but is the mod currently available for download? I see the A13 pre-release version of the Ammunition mod, but what about the rest?

Thank you!
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 25, 2016, 10:14:03 PM
As of currently, EPOE causes the loadout system to be nonfunctional and removes the context buttons for guns (reloading, snapshot/aimmed, ect).

The patch doesn't do anything either so just a heads up to people.
Uh, I'm running both just fine, even with the patch. Not sure about the loadouts but the context buttons are working fine.

I apologize if this is answered anywhere else, but is the mod currently available for download? I see the A13 pre-release version of the Ammunition mod, but what about the rest?
That is the full mod atm, the only thing 'missing' are the turrets since functionality with them hasn't been finished just yet.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: SteelRev on April 25, 2016, 10:18:50 PM
Social Tab also gone, but to the point of the post.

I scavenged two pistols off some raiders. Made a pistol loadout for two of my pawns, simple. Pistol + 100 of each type of 45 ammo.

one pawn has the dummy gear issue. I can't figure out how to get either pawn to refill on ammo, both are out. I debug spawned in 500 rounds of 45 hp into a stockpile. any suggestions?

edit: It's not EPOE messing up the buttons. I don't have that mod but my buttons are gone as well.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 25, 2016, 10:28:26 PM
I can't figure out how to get either pawn to refill on ammo, both are out.
I've not messed with loadouts, but the default way is to click on the pawn and then rightclick on ammo and pick it up (there's an option for 1 and an option for the whole stack). Then rightclick on the current ammo icon in the colonist's tab and change to whatever (if it's different) or just hit reload.

Is this not working because of the loadout or the dummy equipment?
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Tinkerer on April 25, 2016, 10:33:51 PM
That is the full mod atm, the only thing 'missing' are the turrets since functionality with them hasn't been finished just yet.

Thank you, sir.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: SteelRev on April 25, 2016, 10:52:30 PM
I can't figure out how to get either pawn to refill on ammo, both are out.
I've not messed with loadouts, but the default way is to click on the pawn and then rightclick on ammo and pick it up (there's an option for 1 and an option for the whole stack). Then rightclick on the current ammo icon in the colonist's tab and change to whatever (if it's different) or just hit reload.

Is this not working because of the loadout or the dummy equipment?

With or without a loadout selected. right clicking on the ammo gives no options, regardless if the pawn is drafted or not.
Also machining bench doesn't have any bills for making ammo.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Gabe1234s on April 25, 2016, 10:55:36 PM
I'm running the prerelease now and something is wrong.  Combat realism is the only mod I have enabled, aside from CCL.  Colonists did not spawn with ammo in their inventories, the reload, aimed shot, single shot ect buttons are not visible.  I debug spawned some ammo and I could not get colonists to put it in their inventories manually or by setting it as part of their loadout.  Also the social tab is missing.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: SteelRev on April 25, 2016, 11:04:43 PM
I'm running the prerelease now and something is wrong.  Combat realism is the only mod I have enabled, aside from CCL.  Colonists did not spawn with ammo in their inventories, the reload, aimed shot, single shot ect buttons are not visible.  I debug spawned some ammo and I could not get colonists to put it in their inventories manually or by setting it as part of their loadout.  Also the social tab is missing.

Glad to know it's not another mod causing the issues. Check your machieing bench to see if it has ammo crafting bills. mine doesn't
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: AllenWL on April 25, 2016, 11:19:28 PM
Found what appears to be a minor bug.
A colonist of mine picked up some berries to train the dog.... and the berries disappeared.
He just picked up the berries, but they're not in his inventory, and when I try to force training the dog, it says 'no usable food'

Edit: Also, not sure if this is intended, but when my pawns landed, they didn't come with a single extra bullet. Currently, I just have 10 survival rifle bullets and 7 pistol bullets that where in the gun, and that's it.

Edit2:
I think I found out what's causing the berries picked up by the colonist to disappear(and scratch what I said before. This is *not* minor. Lost practically every singe bit of food we had within the day......)
See, the colonist is carrying a meal, a vanilla feature. This has a bulk of 4. Coupled with the survival rifle's bulk, the colonist's carry capacity is maxed out, and he can't carry anything else. However, the game doesn't realize this, and has the colonist pick up the food to train the dog.
Because he has no space left, he can't actually pick it up, so when he tries to, the item(in this case, food) disappears.
Since he still doesn't have anything on him to train the animal, the game keeps on making him pick things up.... causing him to more or less 'erase' every bit of trainable food in the entire colony.

Which makes me wonder how traders with fare with the 'bulk' limit.... pretty sure they carry more things than a average colonist...
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Mzxs on April 25, 2016, 11:49:51 PM
I'm having the same issue SteelRev is and i really want to use this mod looks like so much fun.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: porcupine on April 26, 2016, 12:38:10 AM
I'm having the same issue SteelRev is and i really want to use this mod looks like so much fun.

That's the point of using the mod.  It only released a few hours ago.  If nobody uses it, and finds these bugs, they won't get fixed :).

The modder is pretty damn snappy and active, so play away, just expect to throw away your first few games basically.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 12:41:07 AM
While the functionality of the mod works, my saves after a certain point just break. All the mods I'm using were completely stable before but I'll post another output log in case anyone can let me know what the issue is. I can't bug test if my saves don't last long enough to get into the good stuff hah.  :P

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: AllenWL on April 26, 2016, 12:49:54 AM
It looks like the recipe for making arrows do not exsist. Looked at the mod's xml files to be sure, and can't find them.

Kinda sucks, because I rushed the research for smithing like, way faster than I would normally for ammo(Like I said, I've literally only started out with 17 bullets), but looks like I need to rush the mechanic bench next.

Edit: say, does anybody here know how to make a quick xml file that adds a recipe for making arrows?
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 01:07:47 AM
It looks like the recipe for making arrows do not exsist. Looked at the mod's xml files to be sure, and can't find them.
Someone else stated they're not working but they're supposed to be craft able at the crafting spot, aka without any tech.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 01:31:19 AM
Arrow and great arrow recipes attached. I'm getting the not being able to equip ammo bug off and on and couldn't equip them and some other ammo, but I confirmed that this'll make them at a crafting spot. Not compatible with other mods that change crafting spot as I just added the recipes directly to it. These use the ammo def recipe base from CR so for all I know it'll add the recipes to the machining table as well.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: The_Haminator on April 26, 2016, 01:34:21 AM
With nothing but Core > Edb Mod order > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core. In A13 I'm getting no reload and weapon magazine windows and thus cannot use a gun anymore after it runs out of ammo. I played like 2 hours setting up before going to hunt a rabbit and realizing this issue. Is this because the CR A13 patch is still being worked on or is this something else possibly? I see people posting thinking EPOE has to do with it but that can't be as seen above

I just love what your mod does this is my first time using it so I'm super excited

edit - I'm definitely gonna wait till this mod is working before I start trying A13, easily the coolest combat mod I've seen I even seemed to be able to get it to work with High Caliber now just to have ammo and reloads :)
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: The King of Nipples on April 26, 2016, 01:40:50 AM
No matter what I do combat realism core says that it is incompatible with rimworld A13 I have ccl and put it in the correct load order and reinstalled it but still it says it is incompatible I even tried it with only ccl combat realism core and the core and without can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: AllenWL on April 26, 2016, 01:44:43 AM
Arrow and great arrow recipes attached. I'm getting the not being able to equip ammo bug off and on and couldn't equip them and some other ammo, but I confirmed that this'll make them at a crafting spot. Not compatible with other mods that change crafting spot as I just added the recipes directly to it. These use the ammo def recipe base from CR so for all I know it'll add the recipes to the machining table as well.
Oh nice, thanks, that'll help.
Trying to hunt with pila isn't fun. They're waay too bulky.

Edit: Er... I put the file you game me in the mod folder because it looked like it goes there, and how I can make the arrows... but the inventory system for some reason is totally gone, and remove the arrow crafting didn't help...
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 01:51:53 AM
With nothing but Core > Edb Mod order > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core.
You need to have CCL directly after core for CCL to work properly. Try this:
Core > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core > Edb Mod order.
That's how I have it at least.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
I see people posting thinking EPOE has to do with it but that can't be as seen above

Mine worked for a while, just one playthrough no reloads. Then I saw people saying theirs wasn't. Started up game again, made a new save, no menu stuff. Loaded the old save, no menu stuff. Quit entirely and loaded the old save, it worked. Loaded it over and over, kept working. Made a new map, saved, exited, wouldn't load:

http://prnt.sc/awxh76

I'm sure the menu updates that'll be made tomorrow will address this stuff.

No matter what I do combat realism core says that it is incompatible with rimworld A13 I have ccl and put it in the correct load order and reinstalled it but still it says it is incompatible I even tried it with only ccl combat realism core and the core and without can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong

You get the very latest version of ccl, and make sure core is 1 ccl is 2 and cr is 3 inside of the game itself? Is your folder inside of the mods folder titled CombatRealism-1.6.0 and not 1.5.0? (the old link was updated late after the first 1.6.0 update announcement post, make sure you're not getting the one from the crossed-out link). Sorry, none of this is much better advice than "turn it off, then turn it on again," I'm just tossing out ideas.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 01:58:15 AM
Edit: Er... I put the file you game me in the mod folder because it looked like it goes there, and how I can make the arrows... but the inventory system for some reason is totally gone, and remove the arrow crafting didn't help...

Quitting and loading the game (without changing the file structure or adding mods) did the same thing to me. Sometimes I could get in and it would work for just one save I had, sometimes even that save wouldn't work. My advice is once you get it to work, never close your game ever again.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 02:04:11 AM
never close your game ever again
Wise words to live by.  ;D
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: AllenWL on April 26, 2016, 02:12:44 AM
Edit: Er... I put the file you game me in the mod folder because it looked like it goes there, and how I can make the arrows... but the inventory system for some reason is totally gone, and remove the arrow crafting didn't help...

Quitting and loading the game (without changing the file structure or adding mods) did the same thing to me. Sometimes I could get in and it would work for just one save I had, sometimes even that save wouldn't work. My advice is once you get it to work, never close your game ever again.

I think I'll just grab some wood, draft a pawn in front of it for a few (in-game) hours, then get rid of the wood and spawn in some arrows using the dev tools or something.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: The_Haminator on April 26, 2016, 02:13:04 AM
With nothing but Core > Edb Mod order > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core.
You need to have CCL directly after core for CCL to work properly. Try this:
Core > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core > Edb Mod order.
That's how I have it at least.

Thank you!, trying now

Edit - nope same thing with that order. worth a shot though!
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 26, 2016, 02:41:46 AM
To the people not seeing the reload button etc., did you make sure to exit and restart the game after opening the mod menu? Rimworld has a long-standing issue where opening the mod menu at all will break mods in unpredictable ways until the game is restarted and for CR it has been known to make gizmo buttons disappear.

Regarding the people with savegame corruption (or running into other errors in general) please make sure to specify your load order and upload your output_log.txt so I can backtrace the issue. See here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=18272) for the standard bug reporting procedure.

From the output logs I did get it looks like its an issue with how pawn loadouts are saved. I'll have a talk with fluffy about it as soon as I can get a hold of him to see where the issue might be.

Regarding the arrow crafting, that one is not a bug actually, just an oversight on my part. Whenever I update this mod to a new alpha I end up leaving tribal weapons until the last minute since I personally don't really care about them but now with the ammo system and A13's progression revamp it actually makes sense to use them early on. I'll have a recipe added in the hotfix going up some time later today.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: The_Haminator on April 26, 2016, 02:55:21 AM
To the people not seeing the reload button etc., did you make sure to exit and restart the game after opening the mod menu? Rimworld has a long-standing issue where opening the mod menu at all will break mods in unpredictable ways until the game is restarted and for CR it has been known to make gizmo buttons disappear.

Regarding the people with savegame corruption (or running into other errors in general) please make sure to specify your load order and upload your output_log.txt so I can backtrace the issue. See here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=18272) for the standard bug reporting procedure.

From the output logs I did get it looks like its an issue with how pawn loadouts are saved. I'll have a talk with fluffy about it as soon as I can get a hold of him to see where the issue might be.

Regarding the arrow crafting, that one is not a bug actually, just an oversight on my part. Whenever I update this mod to a new alpha I end up leaving tribal weapons until the last minute since I personally don't really care about them but now with the ammo system and A13's progression revamp it actually makes sense to use them early on. I'll have a recipe added in the hotfix going up some time later today.

I tried as you suggested, same thing. Oh well tommorow's another day! All I can say is Rimworld and the wonderful mods everyone comes up with just keeps getting better and better! Now all we need an awesome overhaul including a bunch of the best stuff for A13. This combat realism to me should be vanilla its so perfect
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: DestroyX on April 26, 2016, 03:30:24 AM
finally, its out!

is the defense addon still in work tho? since there is no download in the thread
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: AllenWL on April 26, 2016, 04:24:17 AM
I was fooling around with dev mode, found some thing that probably shouldn't act like how they where acting.
Some issues I found are:

Tamed boomalopes freeze, then cause lots of lag. Tamed with the dev console thing, if that makes any difference.
Mortars fire a singe round, then don't fire again. Just placed a mortar with god mode, spawned in a shell with dev controls, spawned a pawn(who is not incapable of shooting), got anther pawn(who is also not incapable of shooting), gave one pawn a bionocular and had them 'spot' a random wall in the distance, and had the other pawn fire the mortar. Fired one shot, then stat their doing nothing. The mortar did not have 'X seconds till able to fire again' thing when clicked. Same thing happened with all three mortar(EMP, incendiary, normal) types.
The 30x64mm foam fuel cell does cannot be loaded into the incendiary launcher despite it using 30x64mm fuel cells as ammo. The other two types load in fine.
The incendiary launcher does not start fires. Neither did the incendiary  mortar. Did not test inferno cannon. Motolov starts fires just fine.

Output log:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o7owdursobdlaa/output_log.txt?dl=0

Mod order:
    <li>Core</li>
    <li>Community Core Library</li>
    <li>CombatRealism-1.6.0</li>
    <li>Rimsenal_hair</li>
    <li>Stonecutting Tweak</li>
    <li>Xerigium</li>

Edit:
Also, some gameplay things.

Birdshot pallets are more effective than EMP slugs against personal shields with a quality of around normal lower, as they have enough pallets to completely destroy the shield and damage the wearer, as opposed to just getting rid of the shield, like the EMP, and misses less. With a quality higher than normal, EMP is better, as from then on, it takes two shots from the birdshot to take out the shield.

When changing ammo or otherwise commanding a pawn when it's reloading, it's hard to tell if the pawn is standing still because it's reloading, or if it's reload command got canceled, and it's kinda iffy to wait and see in the middle of a fight. Having a little progress bar for reloading would be great.

A minigun is an absolute ammo hog and really bulky and heavy. A pawn with a backpack and tactical vest can only carry enough ammo for about 3 burst(300 bullets per burst, 600 bullets in the gun, another 300-something bullets carried in the inventory). Also, I might be mistaken, but it looks like a minigun only has the 'auto' and 'single shot' modes, which is weird because you'd expect it to just be 'auto' or 'auto' and 'burst', not 'auto' and 'single shot'. I mean, who would fire bullets one at a time from a minigun?

It looks like damage is now decided by bullet, not gun, so different guns that use the same bullet deals the same amount of damage. (ex: pistol and PDW(I think?) both use a bullet called .45 Para or something, and deal exactly the same amount of damage)

EMP grenades changed from nearly useless to really, really powerful.
It takes down a unarmored pawn in about 1, 2 hits, and has quite a large radius. Also deals surprising amount of damage. I've seen it blow a pawn's head clean off.

Finally, not sure if this is a bug, but stacked pila don't get more bulky, and don't seem to be more heavy, than a single pila(a single pila has the same bulk as a stack of 75 pila).
 Gave a pawn a stack of 75 pila, and he got a total bulk of 6. Bulk rose to 12 once he got a pila in his hands.

Edit: Oh, also, there seems to be ammo for weapons that don't exist in vanilla(Ex: RPG ammo). What are these for?
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: Ghizmo on April 26, 2016, 05:37:40 AM
With nothing but Core > Edb Mod order > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core.
You need to have CCL directly after core for CCL to work properly. Try this:
Core > Community Core Library v0.13.1 > Combat Realism Core > Edb Mod order.
That's how I have it at least.

Thanks, I totaly didnt read this in the OP. I should read more careful
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: SteelRev on April 26, 2016, 08:48:48 AM
To the people not seeing the reload button etc., did you make sure to exit and restart the game after opening the mod menu? Rimworld has a long-standing issue where opening the mod menu at all will break mods in unpredictable ways until the game is restarted and for CR it has been known to make gizmo buttons disappear.

Right, loaded the game up this morning after seeing this post. Confirmed, Buttons are back and Ammo bills present at machining bench.

did get an error log spam tho, I clicked on one of my pawn's reload buttons without having any ammo in a stockpile for them to go get. log spam started and when i closed it, magically the pawn had fully loaded gun.

edit: attached log sreenshot

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 09:14:38 AM
I got the same problem at one point, the one game that would load consistently had the machining table ticking problem, spamming that same error message infinitely in a log, but since I didn't know if that was this mod or community core's low power draw I didn't want to add it to the list of stuff just yet.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.0 (25.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Ammunition
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 26, 2016, 09:23:33 AM
Released first batch of bug fixes. A good number of issues should be fixed now. Second batch should be up later today or early tomorrow, including a fix for the savegame corruption some people have experienced.

Also, some gameplay things.

I'm assuming you spawned the minigun in because its not normally attainable in CR. And yeah, the fact it chews through ridiculous amounts of ammo is one of the reasons you don't see real world militaries fielding them that much. Regarding the damage by bullet thing, that was already the case since the very first release of CR. Its just been "formalized" now. The idea behind EMP grenades is that they have higher cost and lower explosion radius than frag grenades but their electrical damage can't be blocked by any armor other than Devilstrand, so they're still effective against enemies in heavy armor.

Regarding the RPG ammo, that exists for mod compatibility reasons. All ammo types used by vanilla guns or supported gun mods (currently only Rimfire) are contained in the main CR download and enabled for trading as needed. So if mod A and mod B both add .50cal rifles I don't need to create duplicate ammo defs for every patch.

did get an error log spam tho, I clicked on one of my pawn's reload buttons without having any ammo in a stockpile for them to go get. log spam started and when i closed it, magically the pawn had fully loaded gun.

edit: attached log sreenshot

When attaching logs, please upload the actual output_log.txt, rather than screenshots. I can't tell much without looking at the full log + stack trace.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: LustrousWolf on April 26, 2016, 11:05:52 AM
Will this work correctly with Rimsenal or will there need to be a patch? :o
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 11:06:10 AM
Is this compatible with RimFire yet?

Thanks for the mod.  I always use it.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
Is this compatible with RimFire yet?

Thanks for the mod.  I always use it.

From latest update notes:
Rimfire patch: added new fragmentation grenade for RPG-7. You don't need to redownload the Rimfire patch, simply updating CR to 1.6.1 is enough

The patch is not official so not in the RimFire OP, it is available in this post:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9536.msg212677#msg212677
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: st james jack john on April 26, 2016, 11:43:34 AM
The new file 1.6.1 is not compatible or corrupt.

log showed a bunch of files and textures missing. I'm on alpha 13.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 11:44:27 AM
Crashing on loading a save mod order (Output linked below):
         <li>Core</li>
         <li>Community Core Library</li>
         <li>Community Core Library - Vanilla Tweaks</li>
         <li>CombatRealism-1.6.0</li>
         <li>Rimfire 2.0</li>
         <li>Rimfire 2.0 for CombatRealism-1.6.0</li>
         <li>CombatRealism EPOE</li>
         <li>ExpandedProsthetics&amp;OrganEngineering</li>
         <li>Apparello</li>
         <li>EdBModOrder</li>
         <li>EdBColonistBar</li>
         <li>BackstoriesCore-12.0.0</li>
         <li>EdBPrepareCarefully</li>
         <li>More Factions Spawn</li>
         <li>AllowTool</li>
         <li>LT_ADogSaid</li>
         <li>AnimalHideWorking</li>
         <li>BetterCoolers-BetterCoolers1.1</li>
         <li>BetterVents-BetterVents1.1</li>
         <li>ED-Plant24H</li>
         <li>Embrasures-Embrasures1.4</li>
         <li>LDAreaRugs</li>
         <li>RW_Blueprints-0.13.0.1</li>
         <li>RW_Manager-0.13.0.2</li>
         <li>RW_EnhancedTabs-0.13.0.1</li>
         <li>ExtendedMedicine-ExtendedMedicine1.2</li>
         <li>ExtendedStorage-ExtendedStorage1.4</li>
         <li>RW_FluffyRelations-0.13.0.1</li>
         <li>RW_FollowMe--0.13.0.1</li>
         <li>HydroponicRoom</li>
         <li>RW_MedicalInfo-0.13.0.1</li>
         <li>MedievalShields-MedievalShields1.7</li>
         <li>MeteoriteEvent-MeteoriteEvent1.1</li>
         <li>Modular Tables</li>
         <li>MoreTradeShips</li>
         <li>PackMuffalo</li>
         <li>kNumbers-0.4.1-A13</li>
         <li>PowerCell-PowerCell1.3</li>
         <li>PowerSwitch</li>
         <li>RazorRain-RazorRain1.1</li>
         <li>Smart Bears</li>
         <li>Stonecutting Tweak</li>
         <li>VeinMiner</li>
         <li>T-ConditionRed</li>
         <li>T-CoreCropTweaks</li>
         <li>T-ExpandedCloth</li>
         <li>T-ExpandedCrops</li>
         <li>T-MiscStuff</li>
         <li>T-MoreBedsVanilla</li>
         <li>T-MoreFloors</li>

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 11:53:12 AM
The new file 1.6.1 is not compatible or corrupt.

log showed a bunch of files and textures missing. I'm on alpha 13.

Works for me, what is your load order? Did you delete the old folder entirely?
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 26, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
Crashing on loading a save mod order (Output linked below):

Just looking over your mod order I can already see several issues. For one, you are loading both regular Rimfire and the CR version when you should only load one. You are also using the A12 version of BackstoriesCore and loading the CR EPOE patch before EPOE itself. Try fixing those issues and if the problem persists see about disabling a few mods at a time to narrow down which one is causing the issue.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 12:23:13 PM
Is this compatible with RimFire yet?

Thanks for the mod.  I always use it.

Thank you!
From latest update notes:
Rimfire patch: added new fragmentation grenade for RPG-7. You don't need to redownload the Rimfire patch, simply updating CR to 1.6.1 is enough

The patch is not official so not in the RimFire OP, it is available in this post:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9536.msg212677#msg212677
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 12:24:04 PM
you are loading both regular Rimfire and the CR version when you should only load one

Added a post to the rimfire thread in hopes of making this clear, I'd assumed it would be loaded like a patch as well.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 12:24:51 PM
Just looking over your mod order I can already see several issues. For one, you are loading both regular Rimfire and the CR version when you should only load one. You are also using the A12 version of BackstoriesCore and loading the CR EPOE patch before EPOE itself. Try fixing those issues and if the problem persists see about disabling a few mods at a time to narrow down which one is causing the issue.
Huh, I thought the list was like Bethesda's use of ESM's and ESP's which over write so I assumed EPOE patch overwrites EPOE enabling the patch. Plus i thought Rimfire's CR was a patch, not a stand alone version. As for backstories well I'm looking at the download and it's from April 16th haha not really sure how I goofed that one. Thanks for the quick reply, hopefully it's just order issues and not mod incompatibilities. The weird part is I get no errors in the console, and am able to load saves up till a random point with the current mod order.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 12:30:37 PM
Huh, I thought the list was like Bethesda's use of ESM's and ESP's which over write
It's like using mod organizer (where you define orders of textures/esps) rather than like installing mods manually. In rimworld, tick them in order in the mods menu in the main menu of the game, they'll number themselves in the order that you tick them. Make sure to restart the game after opening the mods menu.

(Or use EDB Mod Order (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7454.0))

\/ Yeah, I get what you mean, just being a busybody. I'd post this as a reply but I don't want to spam noimage's thread. \/
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: 25wes25 on April 26, 2016, 12:35:36 PM
It's like using mod organizer (where you define orders of textures/esps) rather than like installing mods manually. In rimworld, tick them in order in the mods menu in the main menu of the game, they'll number themselves in the order that you tick them. Make sure to restart the game after opening the mods menu.
Yeah I understand that, It's just a little bit different than Bethesda's setup where any mod 'core' goes above anything else related to that mod, while anything affecting that core goes above not below. For example a patch would be above either 2 core mods or between them, never after since they overwrite the cores when they build.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: itwasntmeright on April 26, 2016, 12:41:40 PM
I could reproduce following bug:
The GUI just disappears if I click "B" with a pawn selected and then drop the gun of the pawn (while the mouse cursor is still in "choose target mode")
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: st james jack john on April 26, 2016, 12:46:23 PM
Still cant load the mod. Tried everything. Here's the log.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: Grogfeld on April 26, 2016, 12:46:57 PM
I'm just testing 1.6.1 ver. and its working fine, there are notifications for no sound files but no problems in game.
 
I like the loadout tab but have some observations. I've created load for early hunter with bow and arrows and gave it 30 arrows to carry but when pawn go hunting he constantly returns to refill ammo every time he reloads so maybe give a timer to check loadout or some conditions like "have no more then 100 and no less then 30". Now it's OK if you create emergency loadout.

I also have no interactions tab but it could be issue of mod order.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 12:56:58 PM
Thanks for the hard work!
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 01:00:13 PM
Still cant load the mod. Tried everything. Here's the log.

May not be the reason, but it says in your log: Community Core Library, Version=0.13.0.0

The latest version is 0.13.1, but I'm not familiar enough with this to say how it'd show up in the log.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: carpediembr on April 26, 2016, 01:09:00 PM
Amazing job !

Just tested, had no issue, even loading several other mods altogether.

I have one question and one feedback:
Question: Is ALL turrets disabled on this alpha release? (Cant seem to find the regular vanilla turret)
Feedback: (I think I read before, but...)  Requirements for ammo/weapons crafting is pretty low. Dont know what is the roadmap, but I'd suggest adding new ores, such as potassium and sulfur so we could craft gunpowder in order to make ammo.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 01:24:39 PM
Question: Is ALL turrets disabled on this alpha release? (Cant seem to find the regular vanilla turret)
The vanilla turret is disabled at the moment.
Quote
Feedback: (I think I read before, but...)  Requirements for ammo/weapons crafting is pretty low. Dont know what is the roadmap, but I'd suggest adding new ores, such as potassium and sulfur so we could craft gunpowder in order to make ammo.
Quote from NoImage:

Quote
The recipes were calculated under the assumption that 1 steel = 1 kg with 50% waste on top. The reason it seems wacky compared to guns is because they are wacky in the base game. Compare a steel wall (costs 5 steel) to an armor vest (120 steel) and you'll realize you're wearing enough material to make a small building.

Right now I set the steel requirements for ammo pretty low because I wasn't sure how much ammo you actually go through in your average firefight. This should be easier to track now and playtesting will show how much ammo cost is reasonable.

I've wondered if we couldn't have sulfur in the game. My personal opinion is that it starts to get too complicated when you start adding more ores and such. I wouldn't mind having to use some of the exploding flower stuff to make ammo, but the temperature range thing would make it hard to make any ammo in some climates without also having the solar flare shield mod. As a compromise I suppose you could spin "compacted components" as having tiny bits of crushed batteries or summat, and put them in recipe lists for ammo, but that's sortof hacky I guess.

Sorry to keep showing up in this thread, just figured since I'm keeping up with stuff I can maybe help reduce the tech support load during these initial stages.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: NoImageAvailable on April 26, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
Still cant load the mod. Tried everything. Here's the log.

What does your load order look like? From the output_log I'm guessing you're missing CCL or put it below CR somehow.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: Madpizzaboy on April 26, 2016, 01:48:44 PM
does ammo suppose to fall with the colonist in the beginning or not ,because i cant find one
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: Cowan108 on April 26, 2016, 01:50:57 PM
It seems that something with the loadouts is causing the corrupted save issue. Spent my entire day playing.. and now it's gone. lol Oh well, gotta get the bugs somehow. Anyway, I attached my output_log.txt for you to take a look at.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: Cowan108 on April 26, 2016, 01:51:41 PM
does ammo suppose to fall with the colonist in the beginning or not ,because i cant find one

They way I've been getting around it is just using Prepare Carefully and giving myself a small amount of ammo at the start.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: carpediembr on April 26, 2016, 01:55:38 PM
Question: Is ALL turrets disabled on this alpha release? (Cant seem to find the regular vanilla turret)
The vanilla turret is disabled at the moment.
Quote
Feedback: (I think I read before, but...)  Requirements for ammo/weapons crafting is pretty low. Dont know what is the roadmap, but I'd suggest adding new ores, such as potassium and sulfur so we could craft gunpowder in order to make ammo.
Quote from NoImage:

Quote
The recipes were calculated under the assumption that 1 steel = 1 kg with 50% waste on top. The reason it seems wacky compared to guns is because they are wacky in the base game. Compare a steel wall (costs 5 steel) to an armor vest (120 steel) and you'll realize you're wearing enough material to make a small building.

Right now I set the steel requirements for ammo pretty low because I wasn't sure how much ammo you actually go through in your average firefight. This should be easier to track now and playtesting will show how much ammo cost is reasonable.

I've wondered if we couldn't have sulfur in the game. My personal opinion is that it starts to get too complicated when you start adding more ores and such. I wouldn't mind having to use some of the exploding flower stuff to make ammo, but the temperature range thing would make it hard to make any ammo in some climates without also having the solar flare shield mod. As a compromise I suppose you could spin "compacted components" as having tiny bits of crushed batteries or summat, and put them in recipe lists for ammo, but that's sortof hacky I guess.

Sorry to keep showing up in this thread, just figured since I'm keeping up with stuff I can maybe help reduce the tech support load during these initial stages.

I apreciate the reply!!! I knew I read about the ammo cost, but I went back 3 pages and just couldnt find it!
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 02:17:32 PM
How do you craft ammo?
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 02:21:27 PM
How do you craft ammo?

Machinist bench, same as crafting guns. Except arrows, those you craft wherever you craft bows.

It seems that something with the loadouts is causing the corrupted save issue. Spent my entire day playing.. and now it's gone. lol Oh well, gotta get the bugs somehow. Anyway, I attached my output_log.txt for you to take a look at.

Hopefully this will be fixed soon. Quote from noimage from a few pages back:

Quote
Released first batch of bug fixes. A good number of issues should be fixed now. Second batch should be up later today or early tomorrow, including a fix for the savegame corruption some people have experienced.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 02:25:46 PM
How do you craft ammo?

Machinist bench, same as crafting guns. Except arrows, those you craft wherever you craft bows.

Thanks.  Does it require a special research?  I have a machinist bench and don't see any bill that allows ammo crafting.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: jackarbiter on April 26, 2016, 02:55:29 PM
Thanks.  Does it require a special research?  I have a machinist bench and don't see any bill that allows ammo crafting.

Nope, if you have a (machining table, I called it the wrong thing earlier) it'll make all the stuff, ammo and guns, unless something has gone wrong.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 03:02:20 PM
Thanks.  Does it require a special research?  I have a machinist bench and don't see any bill that allows ammo crafting.

Nope, if you have a (machining table, I called it the wrong thing earlier) it'll make all the stuff, ammo and guns, unless something has gone wrong.

Hmmm....well, I have one and it doesn't have any bill for making ammo.

Also, I assume Embrasures don't work with this.  Just tried and they won't fire out of it.  :)
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: Mathenaut on April 26, 2016, 03:05:29 PM
Not having ammo at the start is a problem. Mostly just makes the machine table a research rush.

Performance on bows could use a bit of a tweak.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: nuschler22 on April 26, 2016, 03:15:16 PM
I might be missing it, but I can't find any category to store tactical vests, backpacks, etc, to make a stock pile.

When I attempt to haul it, it says that there is no empty place to store it and I have a stock pile that allows everything.
Title: Re: [A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.1 (26.04.16) A13 Pre-release: Bug fixes
Post by: Fluffy (l2032) on April 26, 2016, 04:24:38 PM
I've fixed the loadout loading bug, when NIA gets around to uploading the latest version affected save games should load normally.

In the mean time, you could open up your save game with a text editor, and search for "loadout". You should see something like this; [note, this is from a really quick test game - yours will likely have more information in it]
Code: [Select]
<components>
<li Class="BreakdownManager" />
<li Class="CommunityCoreLibrary.HideItemManager" />
<li Class="Combat_Realism.Lo