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#5
Bugs / [B18] Unbuilt walls get cancelled during save/load if wall tile contains an item
February 19, 2018, 08:51:06 AM
1. What the circumstances were & 2. What happened.
If there are partially completed wall tiles (ie. they have the materials delivered to them) with items occupying the same tile when the game is saved, then when the game is reloaded the wall construction is cancelled and the materials deposited to the tile south of the wall tile. Seemingly irrespective of what was originally occupying that tile. eg. (following text diagrams summarise my testing)
(w= partially completed wall tile, W completed wall tile, M= Mountain tile)
- If there is a mountain tile to the south,
www
MMM
then the mountain tiles simple disappear and is replaced by the 5X materials that were previously assigned to the partially completed wall tiles.
- If there is a completed wall tile to the south,
www
WWW
then the completed wall tiles also disappear and the respective 5X materials from those completed wall tiles get deposited to their south. If there are then mountain tiles to the south of the completed tiles,
www
WWW
MMM
then once again those mountain tiles disappear and are replaced by the 5X materials from the completed wall tiles.
- I couldn't get an unlimited chain reaction to work though, as if there are two layers of completed walls then only some of the wall tiles disappear, and the materials either group together or squirt out to the side, thereby preventing a chain reaction. (maybe having the layer of walls of different materials would prevent grouping an continue the reaction?)
- I haven't done extensive testing to see what other objects this might apply to. Although some brief testing of partially constructed:
--- plant pots (for 1x1 objects) and workbenches (for object larger than 1x1) do retain their materials when saving/loading.
--- But NPD's don't retain their materials, and like wall tiles the construction is cancelled upon loading the game. But unlike wall tiles there is no displacement of mountain tiles etc. (presumably because of the size of the NPD meaning no shortage of space, so no need to "create" space for the materials).
--- But Campfire's do retain their materials, which was a surprise actually, as Pawns can't walk on them, nor can items be dropped on them, so I assumed they'd have the same bug. So perhaps it's only objects that have wall-like properties, such as (obviously) walls and NPD's etc.
Besides the obviously bugged behaviour here, this is also a pretty exploitable way to quickly remove any wall or mountain tile (such as to reduce the temp when combating an indoor fire). And a good way to deconstruct walls without losing the 1-2 materials you lose during deconstruction. It's also a great way to lose your entire meat supply in a day when you don't notice your under construction freezer suddenly has a hole in the wall, and 5 blocks sitting where a mountain tile used to be. Doh! (which is exactly how I discovered this bug).
3. What you expected to happen.
None of the above. Or simply, I'd expect partially constructed wall tiles to retain their materials (not get cancelled) when saving/loading.
4. Steps to reproduce the bug.
Without the save:
Arrange the following setup (P= Pawn, w= partially completed wall tile, M= Mountain tile). (or see the attached image for how the save game was setup).
P
w
M
Then have the Pawn either drop what they are hauling (by drafting them), or drop something from their inventory/wearing so that said item lands on the partially completed wall tile.
5. Savegame file
From the following save file: http://www103.zippyshare.com/v/QXsE2nrL/file.html (please let me know if it needs reuploading)
1 - Draft the three Pawns (causing them to drop what they were hauling to their south where there are three partially constructed wall tiles).
2 - Save the game.
3 - Load the game you just saved.
4 - Notice how the three partially completed wall tiles have been cancelled, and the three lot of 5X materials from the partially completed wall tiles are now located to their south where there were previously three mountain tiles.
Thank you for your time in reading this.
[attachment deleted due to age]
If there are partially completed wall tiles (ie. they have the materials delivered to them) with items occupying the same tile when the game is saved, then when the game is reloaded the wall construction is cancelled and the materials deposited to the tile south of the wall tile. Seemingly irrespective of what was originally occupying that tile. eg. (following text diagrams summarise my testing)
(w= partially completed wall tile, W completed wall tile, M= Mountain tile)
- If there is a mountain tile to the south,
www
MMM
then the mountain tiles simple disappear and is replaced by the 5X materials that were previously assigned to the partially completed wall tiles.
- If there is a completed wall tile to the south,
www
WWW
then the completed wall tiles also disappear and the respective 5X materials from those completed wall tiles get deposited to their south. If there are then mountain tiles to the south of the completed tiles,
www
WWW
MMM
then once again those mountain tiles disappear and are replaced by the 5X materials from the completed wall tiles.
- I couldn't get an unlimited chain reaction to work though, as if there are two layers of completed walls then only some of the wall tiles disappear, and the materials either group together or squirt out to the side, thereby preventing a chain reaction. (maybe having the layer of walls of different materials would prevent grouping an continue the reaction?)
- I haven't done extensive testing to see what other objects this might apply to. Although some brief testing of partially constructed:
--- plant pots (for 1x1 objects) and workbenches (for object larger than 1x1) do retain their materials when saving/loading.
--- But NPD's don't retain their materials, and like wall tiles the construction is cancelled upon loading the game. But unlike wall tiles there is no displacement of mountain tiles etc. (presumably because of the size of the NPD meaning no shortage of space, so no need to "create" space for the materials).
--- But Campfire's do retain their materials, which was a surprise actually, as Pawns can't walk on them, nor can items be dropped on them, so I assumed they'd have the same bug. So perhaps it's only objects that have wall-like properties, such as (obviously) walls and NPD's etc.
Besides the obviously bugged behaviour here, this is also a pretty exploitable way to quickly remove any wall or mountain tile (such as to reduce the temp when combating an indoor fire). And a good way to deconstruct walls without losing the 1-2 materials you lose during deconstruction. It's also a great way to lose your entire meat supply in a day when you don't notice your under construction freezer suddenly has a hole in the wall, and 5 blocks sitting where a mountain tile used to be. Doh! (which is exactly how I discovered this bug).
3. What you expected to happen.
None of the above. Or simply, I'd expect partially constructed wall tiles to retain their materials (not get cancelled) when saving/loading.
4. Steps to reproduce the bug.
Without the save:
Arrange the following setup (P= Pawn, w= partially completed wall tile, M= Mountain tile). (or see the attached image for how the save game was setup).
P
w
M
Then have the Pawn either drop what they are hauling (by drafting them), or drop something from their inventory/wearing so that said item lands on the partially completed wall tile.
5. Savegame file
From the following save file: http://www103.zippyshare.com/v/QXsE2nrL/file.html (please let me know if it needs reuploading)
1 - Draft the three Pawns (causing them to drop what they were hauling to their south where there are three partially constructed wall tiles).
2 - Save the game.
3 - Load the game you just saved.
4 - Notice how the three partially completed wall tiles have been cancelled, and the three lot of 5X materials from the partially completed wall tiles are now located to their south where there were previously three mountain tiles.
Thank you for your time in reading this.
[attachment deleted due to age]
#6
Bugs / [B18] Can not override reserved mining jobs
February 19, 2018, 07:30:27 AM
Fairly straightforward bug, that being that mining jobs can not currently be overridden.
1 - Select a Pawn and order it to mine a mountain tile.
2 - Select another Pawn and attempt to override the above Pawn's mining job.
3 - Result: No right-click menu appears, so there is no option to override the mining job (same applies if the mountain tile is reserved as part of a Pawn's queued orders).
This is the same/similar issue to what is being reported in the following thread: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38792.0 , but I created a new thread for this report in case it's not the same, plus for the usual "one bug, one thread" reasoning.
1 - Select a Pawn and order it to mine a mountain tile.
2 - Select another Pawn and attempt to override the above Pawn's mining job.
3 - Result: No right-click menu appears, so there is no option to override the mining job (same applies if the mountain tile is reserved as part of a Pawn's queued orders).
This is the same/similar issue to what is being reported in the following thread: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38792.0 , but I created a new thread for this report in case it's not the same, plus for the usual "one bug, one thread" reasoning.
#7
Bugs / [B18] Queued orders allow Pawns to ignore work priorities and work restrictions
January 20, 2018, 08:58:35 AM
1. What the circumstances were. / 2. What happened.
Under certain circumstances, queued orders will allow Pawns to ignore their set work priorities and decide to change from a higher priority job to a lower priority one. They will also proceed to change and carry out jobs they are restricted from performing (as per their work priorities).
3. What you expected to happen.
I would expect Pawns to both obey their set work priorities and not change from a higher priority job to a lower one (unless directly commanded to by the player). And I certainly expect Pawns not to perform jobs that they are restricted from performing (regardless of when a change to their work priorities was made).
4. Steps to reproduce the bug.
1 - Order the construction of a 1x1 object (with a low work to make value) on a stone floored tile (in the save I have used an end table).
1a - Have the construction materials delivered for the object (but do not complete construction yet).
2 - Order a tile to be mined. Preferably one with a lot of HP such as Machinery or Plasteel.
3 - Order the stone tile under the 1x1 object to be smoothed.
4 - Set a Pawn's work priorities to allow Construct and Mine only ("only" so that there are no sources of interference), and have the priority for Mine set higher than for Construct. (in the save Mine is set to 3, while Construct is 4).
5 - Pause the game and order this Pawn to build the 1x1 object, and then queue an order to mine the tile in step #2.
6 - Unpause and watch as the Pawn builds the object and then proceeds to mine the tile as instructed.
7 - Continue to watch and at some point the Pawn will stop mining the tile (assuming it had a lot of HP) and change jobs to start smoothing the stone floor. Even though this smoothing job was never ordered, and even though Construct is set to a lower priority than Mine.
Additionally.
6a - While the Pawn is moving to the mining job, pause the game and disallow that Pawn from doing Construct, meaning the only job they are allowed to do is Mine.
7 - (as above, except) the Pawn will smooth the tile even though they are not allowed to perform Construction tasks (as per the change to their work restrictions in step #5a)
5. Save game
Or just load and unpause the save game which is setup (with Pawn "Masie") to reproduce the first example (and can be used for the second one as well).
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/vXiZhwNU/file.html
Under certain circumstances, queued orders will allow Pawns to ignore their set work priorities and decide to change from a higher priority job to a lower priority one. They will also proceed to change and carry out jobs they are restricted from performing (as per their work priorities).
3. What you expected to happen.
I would expect Pawns to both obey their set work priorities and not change from a higher priority job to a lower one (unless directly commanded to by the player). And I certainly expect Pawns not to perform jobs that they are restricted from performing (regardless of when a change to their work priorities was made).
4. Steps to reproduce the bug.
1 - Order the construction of a 1x1 object (with a low work to make value) on a stone floored tile (in the save I have used an end table).
1a - Have the construction materials delivered for the object (but do not complete construction yet).
2 - Order a tile to be mined. Preferably one with a lot of HP such as Machinery or Plasteel.
3 - Order the stone tile under the 1x1 object to be smoothed.
4 - Set a Pawn's work priorities to allow Construct and Mine only ("only" so that there are no sources of interference), and have the priority for Mine set higher than for Construct. (in the save Mine is set to 3, while Construct is 4).
5 - Pause the game and order this Pawn to build the 1x1 object, and then queue an order to mine the tile in step #2.
6 - Unpause and watch as the Pawn builds the object and then proceeds to mine the tile as instructed.
7 - Continue to watch and at some point the Pawn will stop mining the tile (assuming it had a lot of HP) and change jobs to start smoothing the stone floor. Even though this smoothing job was never ordered, and even though Construct is set to a lower priority than Mine.
Additionally.
6a - While the Pawn is moving to the mining job, pause the game and disallow that Pawn from doing Construct, meaning the only job they are allowed to do is Mine.
7 - (as above, except) the Pawn will smooth the tile even though they are not allowed to perform Construction tasks (as per the change to their work restrictions in step #5a)
5. Save game
Or just load and unpause the save game which is setup (with Pawn "Masie") to reproduce the first example (and can be used for the second one as well).
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/vXiZhwNU/file.html
#8
Mod bugs / How to Report a Mod Bug
January 18, 2018, 07:25:40 AM
If you encounter a bug with a specific mod then please report that bug to the mod's author (on the respective thread for the mod in question). If you encounter a bug while using a variety of mods, but you are unsure which mod is causing the bug, then you can post the bug here to seek assistance with it. Although two important points of note:
- There is no official support for mod related bugs. The RimWorld developers will always try to address bugs associated with the vanilla game, but there is no such support for mod related bugs (unless the bug can be confirmed as being caused by an underlying vanilla issue). The mod's author is the person(s) who usually provides support for any bugs specifically related to their mod.
- For a variety of obvious reasons, there is no guarantee that anyone will be able to help you with your mod related bug. Mods can, and some do, make significant changes to the game, and there are hundreds of mods available for the game. Sometimes multiple mods can be used together just fine, but sometimes they can't and you get a mod conflict as a result, which subsequently causes numerous errors and problems in-game (that's if the game even starts). All of which means it is impossible for anyone to keep track of every change every mod makes, nor keep track of which mods are compatible with which other mods. As such it is impossible for anyone to know exactly what mod or combination of mods is causing any one particular mod bug, meaning there is no guarantee anyone can know what is causing any particular mod bug.
Log files will often give clues, along with it being possible to take a good educated guess as to the cause based on what a mod does/what the mod is called. But there are no guarantees with any of this, so please don't insist that others help you, or continually bump your thread to keep trying to bring it to other people's attention. If someone can assist you with your mod bug then they usually will. But if nobody can assist you then you will need to try and identify the cause of the bug for yourself (and then report the bug to the mod's author once you have confirmed their mod is causing the bug).
Reporting a mod bug is very similar to reporting a vanilla bug, so most of the information required is the same. So when reporting a mod bug please include:
1 - What the circumstances were.
2 - What happened.
3 - What you expected to happen.
4 - Log File. (Please note, if you are using the Hugslib mod then you can jump to step 5a)
Posting a log file means posting the log file RimWorld generated, and ideally as an attachment. Sometimes the log file will be too big to attach, especially if it has logged a lot of errors. In which case you will need to zip it with a program such as 7zip in order to attach it. Here is where you can find your log file:
5 - Your Mod List.
The log file will contain your mod list, but if you are using mods from the Steam Workshop then the mod list in the log file will usually only appear as a series of numbers relating to the mod's Workshop ID's. Obviously a list of Workshop ID numbers is nowhere near as helpful as a list of the names of the mods, so please provide a named list of your mods as well (a screenshot(s) of your in-game mod list will usually suffice).
Or if you prefer, or if your mod list is extremely long, you can find a full list of active mods in your odsConfig.xml files located in the Config folder. So you can just attach this file like you did for your log file, and you can find this file in the same place as your Saves folder (see step #6).
5a. Alternative Log file and Mod list (for if you are using the Hugslib mod https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=28066.0)
Hugslib contains a log publisher feature that you can use (if you wish) as an alternative way to provide your log file and mod list. Quote from the above linked thread:
Press the "Share Log" button when the error window appears and then copy and paste the link that appears into your post.
A large number of mods require Hugslib be installed for them to work, so unless you are only using a handful of mods, then chances are you are using the Hugslib mod.
6 - Save files.
For vanilla bugs, a save file is often invaluable when it comes to both identifying and reproducing a bug (so that it can be fixed). The same applies to mod bugs as well, but only in theory. And that's because in order for someone else to load your modded save file they will usually need to have the exact same mods installed that you are using. Which means needing to track-down, install and activate what could be dozens (if not hundreds) of mods just to load a save file. Which is obviously going to be unreasonable in most cases.
But that does not mean there is no point in posting a save file because the save file can be opened in a text editor, and from which your mod list and load order can be determined. So it is never a bad idea to post your save file, just not as essential for a mod bug as it is for a vanilla bug, and the reason for doing so isn't necessarily the same. Although if you are only using one or two mods then there is a good chance someone will load your save file, in which case it's definitely worth posting it.
To find and post your save file:
7 - What steps you have already taken to identify the mod causing the bug.
Mod bugs can be caused by a number of things, but sometimes the only way to identify the exact mod(s) that is causing the problem is by a process of elimination. So if you have already started this process then mention it so as to potentially save the time of those who might help you from having to start the process from the beginning. Please make sure you provide a list of the names of the mods you use in this case.
- There is no official support for mod related bugs. The RimWorld developers will always try to address bugs associated with the vanilla game, but there is no such support for mod related bugs (unless the bug can be confirmed as being caused by an underlying vanilla issue). The mod's author is the person(s) who usually provides support for any bugs specifically related to their mod.
- For a variety of obvious reasons, there is no guarantee that anyone will be able to help you with your mod related bug. Mods can, and some do, make significant changes to the game, and there are hundreds of mods available for the game. Sometimes multiple mods can be used together just fine, but sometimes they can't and you get a mod conflict as a result, which subsequently causes numerous errors and problems in-game (that's if the game even starts). All of which means it is impossible for anyone to keep track of every change every mod makes, nor keep track of which mods are compatible with which other mods. As such it is impossible for anyone to know exactly what mod or combination of mods is causing any one particular mod bug, meaning there is no guarantee anyone can know what is causing any particular mod bug.
Log files will often give clues, along with it being possible to take a good educated guess as to the cause based on what a mod does/what the mod is called. But there are no guarantees with any of this, so please don't insist that others help you, or continually bump your thread to keep trying to bring it to other people's attention. If someone can assist you with your mod bug then they usually will. But if nobody can assist you then you will need to try and identify the cause of the bug for yourself (and then report the bug to the mod's author once you have confirmed their mod is causing the bug).
Reporting a mod bug is very similar to reporting a vanilla bug, so most of the information required is the same. So when reporting a mod bug please include:
1 - What the circumstances were.
2 - What happened.
3 - What you expected to happen.
4 - Log File. (Please note, if you are using the Hugslib mod then you can jump to step 5a)
Posting a log file means posting the log file RimWorld generated, and ideally as an attachment. Sometimes the log file will be too big to attach, especially if it has logged a lot of errors. In which case you will need to zip it with a program such as 7zip in order to attach it. Here is where you can find your log file:
- Windows (Steam): C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\output_log.txt
- Windows (non-Steam) has TWO possible locations:
- RimWorld####Win\RimWorld####Win_Data\output_log.txt
- %userprofile%\AppData\LocalLow\Ludeon Studios\RimWorld by Ludeon Studios\output_log.txt
- Mac (Steam): Users/<UserName>/Library/Logs/Unity/Player.log
- Mac (non-Steam): /Users/[your user name]/Library/Logs/Unity/Player.log
- Linux (Steam): /home/<UserName>/.config/unity3d/Ludeon Studios/RimWorld/Player.log
Note: You must run RimWorld from the console or the log file will not be created. If you don't run RimWorld from the console, you may find the log at /tmp/rimworld_log - Linux (non-Steam): /home/[your user name]/.config/unity3d/Ludeon Studios/RimWorld/Player.log
5 - Your Mod List.
The log file will contain your mod list, but if you are using mods from the Steam Workshop then the mod list in the log file will usually only appear as a series of numbers relating to the mod's Workshop ID's. Obviously a list of Workshop ID numbers is nowhere near as helpful as a list of the names of the mods, so please provide a named list of your mods as well (a screenshot(s) of your in-game mod list will usually suffice).
Or if you prefer, or if your mod list is extremely long, you can find a full list of active mods in your odsConfig.xml files located in the Config folder. So you can just attach this file like you did for your log file, and you can find this file in the same place as your Saves folder (see step #6).
5a. Alternative Log file and Mod list (for if you are using the Hugslib mod https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=28066.0)
Hugslib contains a log publisher feature that you can use (if you wish) as an alternative way to provide your log file and mod list. Quote from the above linked thread:
QuoteLog publisher: Adds a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl+F12) to publish the logs from within the game. Returns a URL that you can share with others or send to a mod author. The published logs also include the list of running mods and their versions, as well as the full list of active Harmony patches. This is a great way for a mod author to get the logs from a player who is experiencing an issue with his mod.
Press the "Share Log" button when the error window appears and then copy and paste the link that appears into your post.
A large number of mods require Hugslib be installed for them to work, so unless you are only using a handful of mods, then chances are you are using the Hugslib mod.
6 - Save files.
For vanilla bugs, a save file is often invaluable when it comes to both identifying and reproducing a bug (so that it can be fixed). The same applies to mod bugs as well, but only in theory. And that's because in order for someone else to load your modded save file they will usually need to have the exact same mods installed that you are using. Which means needing to track-down, install and activate what could be dozens (if not hundreds) of mods just to load a save file. Which is obviously going to be unreasonable in most cases.
But that does not mean there is no point in posting a save file because the save file can be opened in a text editor, and from which your mod list and load order can be determined. So it is never a bad idea to post your save file, just not as essential for a mod bug as it is for a vanilla bug, and the reason for doing so isn't necessarily the same. Although if you are only using one or two mods then there is a good chance someone will load your save file, in which case it's definitely worth posting it.
To find and post your save file:
- Windows users can find their save files by clicking the 'open save games folder' button in the in-game Options menu.
- Mac users don't have it quite so easy, and you will need to navigate to the save folder manually, which can be found here: /Users/your user name/Library/Application Support/RimWorld . Or you can search for .rws files. Although note that the Library folder could be hidden which might prevent you from both navigating to it and searching for .rws files. More information on where and how to find your save files on the Mac can be found in the following post/thread: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=35625.msg367050#msg367050
7 - What steps you have already taken to identify the mod causing the bug.
Mod bugs can be caused by a number of things, but sometimes the only way to identify the exact mod(s) that is causing the problem is by a process of elimination. So if you have already started this process then mention it so as to potentially save the time of those who might help you from having to start the process from the beginning. Please make sure you provide a list of the names of the mods you use in this case.
#9
Ideas / Missing feedback messages (suggestion thread)
January 04, 2018, 03:45:18 AM
If you notice any feedback messages that are currently missing from the game, then please post them here AFTER you have first done the following:
1 - Checked the current list to see if it is already included: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37974.0 (links to pinned thread in the bugs forum)
2 - Checked the not required / WAD list(s) to see if it has previously been mentioned, and not included (for whatever reason).
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38019.msg389536#msg389536 (links to first post of this thread)
3 - Checked that it applies to the vanilla game and not something specifically related to a mod you are using.
Also please note that this thread is primarily for missing player feedback messages and not missing player notifications, or suggestions for player notifications (the latter being those letters that appears on the right of the screen). These two are quite similar in nature, but there is a clear distinction between them.
A notification message is meant to inform the player about something that has just happened in the game. Whereas a feedback message is meant to inform the player about why they are unable to interact with the game (in the way they are attempting to).
For example, when you select a Pawn and right-click a pending task the right-click menu appears (or should) to allow the player to order the Pawn to perform that task, thereby allowing the player to interact with the game. Sometimes the right-click menu appears, but the task is greyed-out because the Pawn is unable to perform that task, along with a helpful message informing the player why that is. This is a player feedback message. It is feeding information back to the player regarding why they are unable to do something.
The lack of such feedback messages is frustrating for the player because they don't know why they can't perform a given task. Players also sometimes mistake the lack of a feedback message for a bug because they can't figure out why they can't perform the task, and so naturally assume they have encountered a bug. Which they haven't, it's just the game failed to provide the player with the information required to prevent them thinking it was a bug. With the cause of both problems being a missing feedback message, which is why this mini-project now exists in order to find and address all the missing feedback messages.
So if you know of any missing feedback messages then please post them here for me to check and then add to the current list (for the devs to address them).
Finally, this is not intended as a discussion thread, and the more "noise" there is the more time consuming it will be for me to check the posts for valid entries for the list, plus the greater chance of me missing one. So if there is any discussion to be had about something on any of the lists, or a potential entry for the list, please create a new thread for that discussion (in suggestions or GD) and then I can check that thread for any eventual consensus. (although I'm saying this now and before there are any posts in this thread. As there might only be a handful of missing messages meaning only limited posts to read through in the first place. But mentioning it just in case it's an active thread).
1 - Checked the current list to see if it is already included: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37974.0 (links to pinned thread in the bugs forum)
2 - Checked the not required / WAD list(s) to see if it has previously been mentioned, and not included (for whatever reason).
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38019.msg389536#msg389536 (links to first post of this thread)
3 - Checked that it applies to the vanilla game and not something specifically related to a mod you are using.
Also please note that this thread is primarily for missing player feedback messages and not missing player notifications, or suggestions for player notifications (the latter being those letters that appears on the right of the screen). These two are quite similar in nature, but there is a clear distinction between them.
A notification message is meant to inform the player about something that has just happened in the game. Whereas a feedback message is meant to inform the player about why they are unable to interact with the game (in the way they are attempting to).
For example, when you select a Pawn and right-click a pending task the right-click menu appears (or should) to allow the player to order the Pawn to perform that task, thereby allowing the player to interact with the game. Sometimes the right-click menu appears, but the task is greyed-out because the Pawn is unable to perform that task, along with a helpful message informing the player why that is. This is a player feedback message. It is feeding information back to the player regarding why they are unable to do something.
The lack of such feedback messages is frustrating for the player because they don't know why they can't perform a given task. Players also sometimes mistake the lack of a feedback message for a bug because they can't figure out why they can't perform the task, and so naturally assume they have encountered a bug. Which they haven't, it's just the game failed to provide the player with the information required to prevent them thinking it was a bug. With the cause of both problems being a missing feedback message, which is why this mini-project now exists in order to find and address all the missing feedback messages.
So if you know of any missing feedback messages then please post them here for me to check and then add to the current list (for the devs to address them).
Finally, this is not intended as a discussion thread, and the more "noise" there is the more time consuming it will be for me to check the posts for valid entries for the list, plus the greater chance of me missing one. So if there is any discussion to be had about something on any of the lists, or a potential entry for the list, please create a new thread for that discussion (in suggestions or GD) and then I can check that thread for any eventual consensus. (although I'm saying this now and before there are any posts in this thread. As there might only be a handful of missing messages meaning only limited posts to read through in the first place. But mentioning it just in case it's an active thread).
#10
Bugs / Missing feedback messages
January 01, 2018, 07:36:34 AM
@ ALL - If you spot any missing feedback messages in the game then please post it in the following linked thread for it to be added to the list: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38019.0
Current list of missing feedback messages (last updated 14th February 2018)
1 - Selecting a Pawn and right-clicking on certain jobs outside of that Pawn's allowed area does nothing. No right-click mean appears, not even a greyed-out action with a "X is outside allowed area" message, which is what happens for other similar actions (eg. hunting). And there is no feedback provided to the player regarding why they can't order the task. This currently applies to the following actions: (likely not a complete list at this time).
- Plant cutting
- Sowing
- Cooking
2 - Mortar's can not fire if any of the four tiles covering them is roofed. Although if there is a roof then Pawn's can still be ordered to man the mortar even though the mortar won't fire because of the roof. But there's also no feedback to the player informing them that the mortar won't fire, and/or why it won't fire / isn't firing. And even though the game has allowed it to be manned (which suggests to / tricks the player into believing the mortar will fire, else why were they able to man it?) (source report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37798.0 )
3 - If the player has set an "Allowed skill" criteria for a Bill, and selects a Pawn whose skill levels falls outside (either way) of the set range, then right-clicking on the corresponding production station does nothing, and does not provide feedback to the player regarding why they can't order the Pawn to work on the Bill. No right-click menu appears at all actually. Not even a greyed-out action with a "Cannot produce X (skill too low)" message. Which is the message that appears if the Bill itself has a minimum skill requirement. This currently applies to all production station jobs that have an "Allowed skill" slider. (Credit to Snafu_RW).
4 - If an item of furniture has been marked for reinstallation, but that item of furniture is currently being used, then right-clicking on the reinstall blueprint does nothing, no right-click menu appears, and no feedback is provided to the player regarding why they can not order the reinstallation of the furniture. (Credit to Snafu_RW)
5 - If a Pawn is in the process of manning/interacting with a mortar, then selecting another Pawn and right-clicking on the mortar does not result in a right-click menu appearing. (source report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38259.0)
6. If a Pawn is standing on a construction blueprint/partially completed job, then selecting another Pawn and right-clicking on the aforementioned blueprint/job does not result in a feedback message (informing the player that the job can not be prioritised because it is obstructed by the other Pawn). (source report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38968.0)
Current list of missing feedback messages (last updated 14th February 2018)
1 - Selecting a Pawn and right-clicking on certain jobs outside of that Pawn's allowed area does nothing. No right-click mean appears, not even a greyed-out action with a "X is outside allowed area" message, which is what happens for other similar actions (eg. hunting). And there is no feedback provided to the player regarding why they can't order the task. This currently applies to the following actions: (likely not a complete list at this time).
- Plant cutting
- Sowing
- Cooking
2 - Mortar's can not fire if any of the four tiles covering them is roofed. Although if there is a roof then Pawn's can still be ordered to man the mortar even though the mortar won't fire because of the roof. But there's also no feedback to the player informing them that the mortar won't fire, and/or why it won't fire / isn't firing. And even though the game has allowed it to be manned (which suggests to / tricks the player into believing the mortar will fire, else why were they able to man it?) (source report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37798.0 )
3 - If the player has set an "Allowed skill" criteria for a Bill, and selects a Pawn whose skill levels falls outside (either way) of the set range, then right-clicking on the corresponding production station does nothing, and does not provide feedback to the player regarding why they can't order the Pawn to work on the Bill. No right-click menu appears at all actually. Not even a greyed-out action with a "Cannot produce X (skill too low)" message. Which is the message that appears if the Bill itself has a minimum skill requirement. This currently applies to all production station jobs that have an "Allowed skill" slider. (Credit to Snafu_RW).
4 - If an item of furniture has been marked for reinstallation, but that item of furniture is currently being used, then right-clicking on the reinstall blueprint does nothing, no right-click menu appears, and no feedback is provided to the player regarding why they can not order the reinstallation of the furniture. (Credit to Snafu_RW)
5 - If a Pawn is in the process of manning/interacting with a mortar, then selecting another Pawn and right-clicking on the mortar does not result in a right-click menu appearing. (source report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38259.0)
6. If a Pawn is standing on a construction blueprint/partially completed job, then selecting another Pawn and right-clicking on the aforementioned blueprint/job does not result in a feedback message (informing the player that the job can not be prioritised because it is obstructed by the other Pawn). (source report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38968.0)
#11
Bugs / [B18] Pawns ignore allowed area restrictions under certain non-threat conditions
December 31, 2017, 08:15:42 AM
1.What the circumstances were. / 2.What happened.
Pawns are ignoring their allowed area restrictions under certain non-threat conditions.
3.What you expected to happen.
I expected Pawns not to ignore their allowed areas unless there was a threat or danger they were fleeing from/avoiding.
4. Simple reproduction steps:
A save can easily be provided if needed, but this issue is very quick and easy to reproduce from any new or current game.
1: Spawn some food outdoors on a single tile (or find a tile outdoors with some food on it).
2: Place a 1x1 allowed area on the above tile.
3: Assign a Pawn to that allowed area and wait for that Pawn to move there.
4: Order the Pawn to eat the food in the 1x1 allowed area.
5: Watch as the Pawn ignores the 1x1 allowed area and chooses a random nearby tile to eat the food from instead.
Notes and additional testing on this bug:
a - In step #5 the Pawn is not acting as if they are unrestricted either, as they don't choose to use any nearby tables in the area. They just choose a random tile. Which also means they are not overriding the allowed area to avoid a negative "ate without table" moodlet either. They are just ignoring the allowed area fullstop.
b - This is not limited to just 1x1 areas. As for Test #2 I used half a screen full of food tiles (with matching allowed area coverage) and they still ignored the allowed area.
b1 - It's also not that the Pawn won't eat on an occupied tile either, as in Test #2 sometimes the "random tile" chosen by the Pawn was one of the tiles inside the allowed area. ie. a tile with food in it (which is likely due to the allowed area covering half the screen, thereby reducing the availability of empty tiles).
b2 - For Test #2a I added a single empty tile to the allowed area, with the expectation that the Pawn would always choose that empty tile to eat on, and so with it always respect their allowed area restriction. Surprisingly, they didn't always choose the empty tile, with the frequency of them choosing it being directly related to how close the food was they were told to eat. But secondly, the addition of this empty tile ensured the Pawn always respected their allowed area and never once ignored it. Not even when choosing to eat on the non-empty tile.
In Summary:
If there is even a single empty tile in the allowed area then the Pawn will always respect their allowed area (when choosing a tile to eat on), irrespective of anything else. But if there are no empty tiles then they will ignore their allowed area and just pick a nearby random tile (which may or may not be inside the allowed area if the allowed area is greater than 1x1).
Edit / Update. This only applies to outdoors, as if a Pawn is in a room then they will (according to my tests) never leave that room in regards to choosing a random tile to eat the food from. Which logic suggest is WAD. So a Pawn in a 1x1 room with food on the tile would stay in that room if told to eat it (regardless of any allowed area). So even if an allowed area was set that didn't include the room, they would still never leave the room before they finished eating. ie. Staying in the room trumps allowed area. Although I'm less certain that this last part is WAD (as maybe it would be more logical to expect the Pawn to take the food and then move to a tile inside their allowed area to eat it, rather than eating it first. But implementing that might be a lot of work for a very minor gain in some rare edge cases).
Personal view:
I don't think this issue is one that's going to occur too often during the course of "normal" gameplay (depending on how normal is defined of course). But while players usually accept and/or have no issue with randomness and exceptions to a point, ignoring allowed areas is likely a point that falls outside of this. As restrictions/allowed areas do suggest a black and white, non-grey area absolute. And while ignoring them in view of certain threats would be understandable, ignoring them for non-threats far less so.
And this isn't even an example of where Pawns are temporarily leaving an allowed area due to it being non-contiguous, which can be explained. As here they are just ignoring it because all the tiles are occupied. Although as Test #2a showed this factor appears to be irrelevant, meaning it's a lot harder for the player to simply "accept" Pawns ignoring their allowed areas (as it's due to an irrelevant factor).
Thank you for your time in reading this (rather lengthy bug report. And a lot of text for what is likely a rather minor bug/issue).
Pawns are ignoring their allowed area restrictions under certain non-threat conditions.
3.What you expected to happen.
I expected Pawns not to ignore their allowed areas unless there was a threat or danger they were fleeing from/avoiding.
4. Simple reproduction steps:
A save can easily be provided if needed, but this issue is very quick and easy to reproduce from any new or current game.
1: Spawn some food outdoors on a single tile (or find a tile outdoors with some food on it).
2: Place a 1x1 allowed area on the above tile.
3: Assign a Pawn to that allowed area and wait for that Pawn to move there.
4: Order the Pawn to eat the food in the 1x1 allowed area.
5: Watch as the Pawn ignores the 1x1 allowed area and chooses a random nearby tile to eat the food from instead.
Notes and additional testing on this bug:
a - In step #5 the Pawn is not acting as if they are unrestricted either, as they don't choose to use any nearby tables in the area. They just choose a random tile. Which also means they are not overriding the allowed area to avoid a negative "ate without table" moodlet either. They are just ignoring the allowed area fullstop.
b - This is not limited to just 1x1 areas. As for Test #2 I used half a screen full of food tiles (with matching allowed area coverage) and they still ignored the allowed area.
b1 - It's also not that the Pawn won't eat on an occupied tile either, as in Test #2 sometimes the "random tile" chosen by the Pawn was one of the tiles inside the allowed area. ie. a tile with food in it (which is likely due to the allowed area covering half the screen, thereby reducing the availability of empty tiles).
b2 - For Test #2a I added a single empty tile to the allowed area, with the expectation that the Pawn would always choose that empty tile to eat on, and so with it always respect their allowed area restriction. Surprisingly, they didn't always choose the empty tile, with the frequency of them choosing it being directly related to how close the food was they were told to eat. But secondly, the addition of this empty tile ensured the Pawn always respected their allowed area and never once ignored it. Not even when choosing to eat on the non-empty tile.
In Summary:
If there is even a single empty tile in the allowed area then the Pawn will always respect their allowed area (when choosing a tile to eat on), irrespective of anything else. But if there are no empty tiles then they will ignore their allowed area and just pick a nearby random tile (which may or may not be inside the allowed area if the allowed area is greater than 1x1).
Edit / Update. This only applies to outdoors, as if a Pawn is in a room then they will (according to my tests) never leave that room in regards to choosing a random tile to eat the food from. Which logic suggest is WAD. So a Pawn in a 1x1 room with food on the tile would stay in that room if told to eat it (regardless of any allowed area). So even if an allowed area was set that didn't include the room, they would still never leave the room before they finished eating. ie. Staying in the room trumps allowed area. Although I'm less certain that this last part is WAD (as maybe it would be more logical to expect the Pawn to take the food and then move to a tile inside their allowed area to eat it, rather than eating it first. But implementing that might be a lot of work for a very minor gain in some rare edge cases).
Personal view:
I don't think this issue is one that's going to occur too often during the course of "normal" gameplay (depending on how normal is defined of course). But while players usually accept and/or have no issue with randomness and exceptions to a point, ignoring allowed areas is likely a point that falls outside of this. As restrictions/allowed areas do suggest a black and white, non-grey area absolute. And while ignoring them in view of certain threats would be understandable, ignoring them for non-threats far less so.
And this isn't even an example of where Pawns are temporarily leaving an allowed area due to it being non-contiguous, which can be explained. As here they are just ignoring it because all the tiles are occupied. Although as Test #2a showed this factor appears to be irrelevant, meaning it's a lot harder for the player to simply "accept" Pawns ignoring their allowed areas (as it's due to an irrelevant factor).
Thank you for your time in reading this (rather lengthy bug report. And a lot of text for what is likely a rather minor bug/issue).
#12
Bugs / [B18] System.NotImplementedException: error on new game start on certain tiles
December 28, 2017, 11:24:11 AM
Encountered an error when starting a new game that I think is to do with generating roads. Or maybe generating roads on coastal tiles. OR maybe coastal tiles that have a road running through them (rather than the road ending at that map tile).
Or at least there is supposed to be a road present on the map tile according to the world map, but there isn't a road when the map tile is actually generated. I've seen this error occur on a number of map tiles and world seeds (I usually play coastal tiles which is why I think it's connected to this), so I'm pretty certain it's not strictly limited to the one example given below. But this was the first time I managed to catch this error and check that it was reproducible.
Log file attached. I haven't included a save file as the error doesn't appear when loading the map from a save (it only appears when first generating the map tile from a new game start).
Reproduction steps:
1 - Start a new game with any scenario and storyteller.
2 - Seed: maxim, 30% coverage, default rainfall and temperature.
3 - Select the map tile with coordinates 51.32N 52.85E (it's a Mountainous Boreal Forest coastal tile with a dirt road in the North-East region).
4 - Start the game and encounter the following error.
Error in GenStep: System.NotImplementedException: The requested feature is not implemented.
at Verse.Region.Allows (TraverseParms tp, Boolean isDestination) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.Reachability.CanReach (IntVec3 start, LocalTargetInfo dest, PathEndMode peMode, TraverseParms traverseParams) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.AI.PathFinder.FindPath (IntVec3 start, LocalTargetInfo dest, TraverseParms traverseParms, PathEndMode peMode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.GenStep_Roads.PrepDrawRoad (Verse.Map map, Verse.TerrainDef rockDef, IntVec3 start, IntVec3 end, RimWorld.RoadDef roadDef, RimWorld.RoadPathingDef pathingDef, Verse.IntVec3& centerpoint) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.GenStep_Roads.Generate (Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.MapGenerator.GenerateContentsIntoMap (IEnumerable`1 genStepDefs, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
[attachment deleted by admin: too old]
Or at least there is supposed to be a road present on the map tile according to the world map, but there isn't a road when the map tile is actually generated. I've seen this error occur on a number of map tiles and world seeds (I usually play coastal tiles which is why I think it's connected to this), so I'm pretty certain it's not strictly limited to the one example given below. But this was the first time I managed to catch this error and check that it was reproducible.
Log file attached. I haven't included a save file as the error doesn't appear when loading the map from a save (it only appears when first generating the map tile from a new game start).
Reproduction steps:
1 - Start a new game with any scenario and storyteller.
2 - Seed: maxim, 30% coverage, default rainfall and temperature.
3 - Select the map tile with coordinates 51.32N 52.85E (it's a Mountainous Boreal Forest coastal tile with a dirt road in the North-East region).
4 - Start the game and encounter the following error.
Error in GenStep: System.NotImplementedException: The requested feature is not implemented.
at Verse.Region.Allows (TraverseParms tp, Boolean isDestination) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.Reachability.CanReach (IntVec3 start, LocalTargetInfo dest, PathEndMode peMode, TraverseParms traverseParams) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.AI.PathFinder.FindPath (IntVec3 start, LocalTargetInfo dest, TraverseParms traverseParms, PathEndMode peMode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.GenStep_Roads.PrepDrawRoad (Verse.Map map, Verse.TerrainDef rockDef, IntVec3 start, IntVec3 end, RimWorld.RoadDef roadDef, RimWorld.RoadPathingDef pathingDef, Verse.IntVec3& centerpoint) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.GenStep_Roads.Generate (Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.MapGenerator.GenerateContentsIntoMap (IEnumerable`1 genStepDefs, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
[attachment deleted by admin: too old]
#13
Bugs / [18.1722] Caravan animals prioratising food to eat in an undesirable order
November 15, 2017, 09:08:42 AM
This bug report is based on comments in the A18 feedback thread about how caravan animals are currently (as of 18.1722 it seems) eating food in an order that is undesirable from the player's perspective. There was a previous bug report posted about this, and was fixed for A18. I do not know if this is a new bug, or a variation/reoccurrence of the previous bug: Which can be found here for reference: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33073.0
Here are the relevant parts of the post from the A18 thread (I've quoted the posts rather than move them here as the posts are also part feedback as well).
Here are the relevant parts of the post from the A18 thread (I've quoted the posts rather than move them here as the posts are also part feedback as well).
Quote from: Snafu_RW on November 14, 2017, 06:19:41 PMUnfortunately there still doesn't seem to be a way of prioritising food while travelling; your animals will eat fine meals (as opposed to grazing/hunting while your pawns will not eat the food that is likely to spoil quickest
On a related note, why will tame non-grazing animals (dogs, wolves etc) not hunt the local vermin?
#14
Bugs / [A18] Planning mode lacks straight line distance (for use with transportor pods)
November 05, 2017, 04:55:59 AM
This is a possible bug I seen posted in the A18 feedback thread. I haven't moved the post itself though as I'm not sure if it is strictly a bug, or just feedback/suggestion about a new A18 feature. But thought I'd post it here as well just in case it is a bug, or an overlooked/missing aspect regarding a new feature that should be addressed (or added to a to-do list). Anyways...
Quote from: East on November 05, 2017, 03:35:20 AM
The planning mode of the world map tells only the travel time between two points and does not give a straight line distance. I think it is necessary to tell straight distance in order to predict the amount of fuel needed when using transporter.
#15
General Discussion / A challenge or simply infeasible?
October 28, 2017, 06:08:53 AM
While dealing with a support issue a thought occurred to me regarding a potentially interesting challenge scenario, and I know how much some players like these so I thought I'd flesh out the challenge properly, along with seeing just how feasible it actually is (since it might make the game either impossible to play, or so frustrating that it defeats the purpose of playing the game).
Challenge: You are not allowed to directly issue any orders to any Pawns, apart from the following list of exceptions (due to them being actions essential to playing the game, and which there are no other way of performing other than by issuing a Pawn a direct order).
Exception list (note this list will likely be in flux for a while as workarounds are found and/or rejected)
- Equipping weapons
(Note: this post started out as a reply to a support thread, but I've removed the support thread posts/parts)
Challenge: You are not allowed to directly issue any orders to any Pawns, apart from the following list of exceptions (due to them being actions essential to playing the game, and which there are no other way of performing other than by issuing a Pawn a direct order).
Exception list (note this list will likely be in flux for a while as workarounds are found and/or rejected)
- Equipping weapons
(Note: this post started out as a reply to a support thread, but I've removed the support thread posts/parts)
#16
Bugs / [0.18.1700] Downed refugee quest, refugees have no legs (bug or WAD?)
October 26, 2017, 02:09:52 PM
This possible bug report is based on comments in the A18 feedback thread and from Steam, and appear to indicate a possible bug with the downed refugee quest, and the regularity (maybe 100%?) with which the refugee has no legs.
And a post on Steam by user Roccaleta (my thanks to Rimrue for mentioning the Steam reports). http://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/1480982338943351982/
"Incapacitated Refugee
I just had a small quest, to save an incapacitataed refugee. I went there, killed all the pirates, Took whatever I needed. But I can't bring the refugee with me. I can't heal her because she has no legs, no peg leg option for her either. What am I supposed to do with her? "
Quote from: Rimrue on October 26, 2017, 01:28:48 PM
So a couple days into my game (playing Lost Tribe, Randy Random on Some Challenge), I get my first quest to rescue Wilfred. He's injured and needs saving. So I pack up some food and meds and grab my best fighters (equipped with bows and wooden war masks) to go save him. He's guarded by 4 turrets and a guy in power armour with an LMG. And he's got no legs. Yeah, like I'm gonna risk losing all my pawns for a guy who can't even walk? So I noped out of there and left poor Wilfred to his fate.
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on October 26, 2017, 01:33:06 PMThe down refugee quest is a good idea, but two legs off is maybe too much, and 2 out of 3 offers were not reachable by a caravan given the location/ season.
And a post on Steam by user Roccaleta (my thanks to Rimrue for mentioning the Steam reports). http://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/1480982338943351982/
"Incapacitated Refugee
I just had a small quest, to save an incapacitataed refugee. I went there, killed all the pirates, Took whatever I needed. But I can't bring the refugee with me. I can't heal her because she has no legs, no peg leg option for her either. What am I supposed to do with her? "
#17
Bugs / [A17]Pawns in cryptosleep caskets in ancient shrine were dead/downed when opened
September 15, 2017, 07:44:48 AM
Please note this is not my own bug report, hence the quote. This report was part of a very large bug report that I have separated into individual reports to make it more manageable (plus "one bug, one thread" etc.)
Quote from: quinton on June 11, 2017, 07:32:21 AMwhen opening an 'ancient evil' colonists in cryptosleep caskets get ejected. much to the delight of their mechanoid guards. I opened an ancient evil' room, it had 4 cryptosleep caskets in it. 2 scythers and 1 centipede spawned, and all 4 caskets ejected their colonists. 1 was dead, 2 were downed, and the fourth was perfectly fine, ran out of the room and off the map.
#18
Bugs / [A17] Mechanoids dropped their weapons and fled to the edge of the map
September 15, 2017, 07:41:20 AM
Please note this is not my own bug report, hence the quote. This report was part of a very large bug report that I have separated into individual reports to make it more manageable (plus "one bug, one thread" etc.)
Quote from: quinton on June 11, 2017, 07:32:21 AMwhen mechanoids spawn out of a poison ship, they dropped their weapons and run for the edge of the map. This was really bizarre. My colony was a large ring shape, with a big open field in the center. A piece of a poison ship landed in the field, I surrounded it with colonists and shot the piece once. 2 centipedes and 2 scythers spawned, each fired one shot, and their weapons disappeared. They then ignored my colonists and moved towards the map edge, destroying wall segments until i brought them down.
#19
Bugs / [A17] Fire will spread to metal objects (eg. metal walls and metal floors)
September 15, 2017, 07:39:31 AM
Please note this is not my own bug report, hence the quote. This report was part of a very large bug report that I have separated into individual reports to make it more manageable (plus "one bug, one thread" etc.)
Quote from: quinton on June 11, 2017, 07:32:21 AMfire will can spread to metal objects. A wildfire started by a boomalope spread onto a cell with metal flooring and nothing else, then spread to a metal wall, but did not spread after that. Just to clarify, this was not the boomalope exploding that did it, but a spreading fire that had been started by one.
#20
Bugs / [A17] Pawns will sometmes ignore available tables spots when eating
September 15, 2017, 07:38:08 AM
Please note this is not my own bug report, hence the quote. This report was part of a very large bug report that I have separated into individual reports to make it more manageable (plus "one bug, one thread" etc.)
Quote from: quinton on June 11, 2017, 07:32:21 AMcolonists sometimes ignore available tables to eat at... then complain about it. Fairly simple to find, just have a room where you keep your food, and tables for them to eat in a seperate building, but easily accesible. Colonists will sometimes, pick up food in the storage room and eat it right there, then get the 'ate without table' mood penalty. This happens more and more frequently the farther away the table room and food rooms are, however still happens even if the tables are 1 door away.