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Unfinished / Re: [A17] Prison Labor
« on: July 23, 2017, 12:19:45 PM »
There is one practical problem I run into pretty quickly with this mod...

Since your prisoners have to be able to reach any work-areas without opening doors this means that they have to eat, sleep and live all in the same "area". What I mean is - if you are on an ice-sheet or desert biome then it becomes pretty hard for you to use those prisoners in anything involving the outdoors, or traveling through the outdoors to get to a job - because their bedrooms have to be constantly exposed to the open air.

Sometimes you can work around this but it seems a little bit artificial.

Perhaps a more proper way to do this would be to use the zoning tool to specify a "prisoner allowed" area - and then prisoners are allowed to use doors in that area only. I don't know if this will present technical difficulties though.

Perhaps a workaround could be to include a "prisoner door" in the mod which is not actually a door, but just a tile that acts as a door in terms of making rooms fill the requirements of "having a door" and insulates like a door. Just a thought. Something to tackle in later versions. I'm pretty impressed with how well this works so far actually.


Outdated / Re: [A17] FuckFriendlyFire
« on: July 23, 2017, 12:01:09 PM »
Is this safe to add/remove in an ongoing save?
It kind of sounds like it would be - but I'd rather ask than run into trouble later :)


The non death randomness is a good one too. I use that a lot.

You have to play the game with that mod knowing that it has the potential to break balancing progression curve though since the "artificial deaths" are there exactly to provide an "ideal storytelling" progression. But as long as you know what you are doing and keep this in mind then it sure does make the game feel more natural by removing such a forced mechanic.

It definitely has a lot of potential with the new "prison labor" mod which has a lot of potential. It's already pretty good and is being developed fast with new updates. A no death randomness + prison labor was partly the reason I wanted to dabble in something non-lethal. I don't intend to mass-harvest labor from raids or anything, which is why I'd prefer a balanced non-lethal, but it would make so much sense to be able to increase your chances of live capture on wounded fleeing enemies and such.


I think he removed some of these features because other mods are essentially making them redundant.

I recommend improved workbenches. It includes crafting hysteresis - so you can simply set a goal of "make 50 simple meals" and a lower limit of 25, so that then when you only have 25 left then production automatically starts up again.


Unfinished / Re: [A17] Prison Labor
« on: July 22, 2017, 10:29:15 PM »
Your workshop page description says under comparability:
"No works with WorkTab (by Fluffy)"

Since the author's English is too good to be this broken - I am wondering if this is a typo and is supposed to say "now works with..." ?

So is it compatible with worktab or not? It's pretty essential in terms of mods as far as I am concerned.

EDIT: I think I answered my own question. I found in the changelog for alpha 6:
"added WorkTab by Fluffy compatibility"
So I guess it is indeed a typo.


Yea, I'm just not looking to add one of those large arsenal packs. Trying to keep it sort of vanilla-ish and not add too much unless it's got a really good reason to be added in. As for the force powers thing - I appreciate the suggestion, but it's not what I'm looking for.

Ideally for non-lethal options it would just be nice to have one on it's own, or a couple that complement each other - like a tazer/stunbaton and some limited-range alternative also.

Skullywag had some nice stuff including non-lethals - but it looks like it's not been updated since alpha9 or something.

I found these on steam workshop, but I don't use steam at all, and there's no external links, so unless someone wants to sub - grab the files and give them to me - I'm kind of stuck on that front:

There is also a very nice gas-trap mod that has a non-lethal option here:
but this also is missing a non-steam link on that one...


Try the sith lords from the starwars mod.
Their choke can down the target for a while or kill it when it was too strong.
The Jedi skill mind trick can "cure" berserk/manhunter.

I'm looking for something a lot more "vanilla friendly" than that - not a total conversion or large addon pack.
But still, thank you for the suggestion.


Hey all,

Any mods for non-lethal options in A17? Preferably something not too OP - but just to give you some options in dealing with for example friendly colonists going berserk. I know there have been many mods along these veins but I can only find outdated stuff - or stuff on steam workshop that don't have non-steam downloads.

Alternatively, if someone who uses steam would like to grab this for me:
(after download it's just a matter of grabbing the folder from inside mods folder, it's not a complex operation)
and send me a PM that would be sweet. Posting it publicly probably isn't cool without the mod authors permission though (hence the PM).


Mods / Re: Good Mods to use while not altering the game to much?
« on: July 21, 2017, 11:28:41 PM »
There are tons and tons of great mods that are primarily quality-of-life without adding much if any content to alter the vanilla experience.
Too many to really list hmmm...

Actually here is my current mod config. I will quickly scan and remove the stuff that isn't primarily QoL or isn't what I consider mostly just "adding to vanilla" and you can go look at these mods yourself to see what you want to add. I prefer to not add mod that add too much junk so my list probably has a lot of good stuff for you.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
    <li>New Zone Tools</li>
    <li>MapReroll</li> (there is a map reroll 2 now that is arguably better)
    <li>TableDiner Configurable</li>
    <li>TechAdvancing</li> (let's tribals advance in tech so their research isn't forever totally gimped)
    <li>Hospitality</li> (this does alter vanilla, but in a very subtle way that I recommend, more like vanilla expansion)
    <li>Mending</li> (adds ability to repair and recycle some stuff)
    <li>A_Dog_Said-A17</li> (more surgery options on animals)
    <li>SimpleSidearms-1.2.1</li> (allows multiple equipped weapons)
    <li>Refactored Work Priorities</li>
    <li>Everyone Can Do Anything</li> (if you don't like pawns with disabled skills)
    <li>MadSkills-A17-2.0.1</li> (if you want to adjust skill-deterioration)
    <li>Hunting Alert</li>
    <li>Patient Sanity</li>
    <li>Friendly Berserk</li>
    <li>Grenade Fix Rearmed</li>
    <li>Cooks Can Refuel</li>
    <li>Hand Me That Brick</li>
    <li>Less Rebuff</li>
    <li>[A17] Plant Cutting is for Growers!</li>
    <li>Modular Tables A17</li>
    <li>More Vanilla Turrets</li> (this does add a lot of extra defenses - but quite vanilla-like and decent balancing)
    <li>RimFridge</li> (single tile fridges - definitely content, but too good to not include)
    <li>Fences And Floors</li>
    <li>[A17] Quality Cooldown</li> (lets quality be a little more meaningful on ranged weapons)
    <li>Mod Medicine Patch</li>
    <li>StorageSearch + AllowFresh</li>

Mods / Re: [Mod Idea] Play as the story teller
« on: July 21, 2017, 11:16:54 PM »
Cool idea but to be blunt it will never happen - because making an AI good enough to essentially play the game (in an interesting enough way to make it worth watching) would likely require better AI than the most advanced available in the world currently - and probably a neural network supercomputer of some sort.

What COULD work (but probably require a lot of work) would be to play the storyteller for another human player - and that sure could be interesting, at least for the main player. The storyteller might get a little bored. It would just need some sort of interface to push event commands over a network. That's very doable for sure, but since there is no framework for this it would be a major new feature to make from scratch. For simplicity's sake you could assume you were watching via stream.

Actually - this would probably be an incredible hit on twitch if the audience could participate - hilarious trolling ensures =P
Maybe you can pitch the idea to Tynan and see what he thinks?


Outdated / Re: [A17] FuckFriendlyFire
« on: July 21, 2017, 10:57:51 AM »
Very nice to have the option. I was always annoyed by friendly fire in this game.

I mean - it's perfectly fine that it can happen if you are watching them fight and you risk firing into a melee or whatever - but when an important pawn just drops dead completely randomly because someone assigned to hunting felt it was fiiiine to open fire towards allies while hunting some squirrel - that just makes you annoyed and feel like you can't not constantly babysit them for fear of them literally being to dumb to live.

I think anyone who has ever tried to actually use "release animal" in combat knows the feeling... your pets shouldn't fear the enemy nearly as much as they should fear your pawns.

The "accidental hits" system in this game is also a bit wonky. If the hit chance is low and someone is in the line of fire - it is actually much more likely to accidentally hit the friendly than the intended target. Sometimes mechanically it is literally optimal to aim at some random spot behind the target.

I feel like the ideal balanced alternative to friendly fire ON would be to have aim be penalized whenever friendly fire would normally be a threat. It would simulate pretty well how conservative most people would be in their aim if they had allies in the line of fire. Better to not hit the enemy than to accidentally blow Bob's brains out. The higher chance the game would have given the friendly fire to happen - the higher the penalty. It would remove all the annoyances of friendly fire while keeping battles from being easier since having allies in the line of fire would still be just as bad an idea as before.

The mod as it stands is nice too though. I just feel it maybe removes some of the challange/fun along with the annoyances -  which is a shame.

Unfinished / Re: [WIP] Britnoth's experiments thus far
« on: July 21, 2017, 08:59:40 AM »
This mod should be on the releases page! Experimental or not it's sooo essential. I've only been using it for 10 minutes and I'm already impressed with how much smarter my pawns are. Now they will actually clean their rooms instead of wallowing in filth and becoming depressed because of it without my express orders. Hauling is also soo much better. I've fiddled with the priorities in the work type defs a lot up until now to try and replicate what this mod does. The patient fixes are also a big improvement. I'm just mad that it took me so long to find this!

I agree that hauling and cleaning tasks benefit greatly from this (I am assuming you are talking about workflex here).
It's all the other stuff that creates problems - I find I end up losing control of what the actual priorities are, and I can't bring myself to use it long-term, especially the later in the game I go as the workloads become larger and more complex. Maybe part of the problem is that I'm the sort of person who set up priorities for everyone to do everything EVENTUALLY somewhere down the priority ladder - even when I know that they will most likely never get a chance to under most circumstances. It would be less of an issue if you tend to set people to only do 2-3 types of tasks.

I reiterate that it would be really great if there was a haul/clean only version of workflex *hint hint*


Unfinished / Re: [A17] Simple Slavery v0.5g
« on: July 20, 2017, 08:32:29 PM »
Hum, I wasn't expecting that error message to actually trigger; I suppose it's good I put it in just in case. I'm have to look into it.

As for this:
Quote strikes me as being a little superfluous in terms of mechanics.
That's absolutely a fair point. I want to give the player freedom to control their slaves how they desire, but if slavery is just another recruit mechanic it isn't very interesting. On one hand, I would very much like to keep the mod's mechanics simple enough (hence the name), but it would also be nice to have slaves operate differently. I actually like the idea of decreased move speed- they're supposed to be shackled, right? And when they make an escape attempt, they strangely suddenly become shackled ( to slow down their movement so your warden actually has a chance to catch them). But I think it would make more sense both from a mechanical and realistic perspective if they were always treated as shackled.

I think one of the biggest things to consider is if these slaves count towards the population cap or not.

If they do then it's essentially just "alternative recruitment" and it makes sense for them to not be very limited.
If they don't then slaves are free labor - and if they aren't restricted in some way it can be gamebreakingly powerful.


Unfinished / Re: [A17] Simple Slavery v0.5g
« on: July 20, 2017, 08:29:38 PM »

What if slaves were severely limited in work-tasks (haul, clean, sow/plantcut, mine - no fighting) and worked at half or even less speeds - but they didn't count towards your storyteller's population cap. Probably also need a second restriction that you can't have more slaves than free colonists (too great a chance of a slave uprising and all that).

I have to disagree with you here.
For the first big no for me. Is "Probably also need a second restriction that you can't have more slaves than free colonists (too great a chance of a slave uprising and all that)." That defeats the purpose of slaves. You are supposed to have many slaves if they rebel that adds another level of balance and danger. It makes your guards have to be stronger and well equipped. It makes no logical sense to have that restriction. Especially if they can already escape and what not.

As for the second. Slaves would only work slowly if they felt there were no repercussions. They would have worked fast or at a standard rate in fear of being beaten or killed right? So only those with high willpower would work slowly. If they were dumb that is. If they were smart they would work at the same pace so as not to draw suspicion for when they can break free. Either way, there is no reason for them to work slowly other than through natural reason like bodily damage, or through their own stupidity.

I'm not talking about how it would work in terms of real-world logic here - but more about game balance. Lots of extra high-efficiency labor is very powerful.


Unfinished / Re: [A17] Prison Labor
« on: July 20, 2017, 08:24:55 PM »
Do prisoners like this count towards your population cap?
I'd imagine no? ...


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