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hey, if it works...

Yeah, you went a little. Actually i read it and was about to post my response so no need to send a PM. Alas, I never meant my detailed response to be regarded as personal jab, nor did i write with that in mind.

Either way, I'm glad we didn't "went through" this. If this gets closed or not lets keep it civil at least.

[any]

Woah, sorry not answering before, i had totally forgotten this topic.

Have in mind that my answers below are not meant to antagonize or put you in the wrong, it just reinforces what akicebear said regarding what anti-fow people consider a bad thing being a feature for pro-fow people.

Okay a special : storytelling/ambiance-related things that will be impeded by obtrusive FoW.

For starter when making Events (which pretty much make the game) a FoW would make pointless to even think at making event that don't happen where your colonist are.

That's the first and foremost argument against fow that is constantly brought up. While i agree at a certain degree, i must bring to attention, again, that FoW doesn't negate or extinct any of those events. It might, at most, delay or provide an obstacle, but never prevent.

The events described in the post of the link could, in its majority, work exactly the same under fow, and some other could work with a few peculiar differences, not to mention the others that could happen specifically because of fow.

Then, even if you are not able to watch or interfere with events, the consequences are there, and if people feel the need to absolutely watch every single thing that happens in the game (which is impossible even with omniscience) and feel cheated for not observing it, then i guess fow could be perceived as bad, but really, it's not like you don't get the opportunity to watch the same events regularly.

"Ex : if you had planned to have two factions fight on your territory for example it would require a "scout" to reach the place in time to see it, and waste more time if you want to intervene.
The problem stay even if you are notified and given hint on the place it happen (notice which defeat 80% of the reason to have a fog in the first place)."

That's because the game just throws events without warning or prompts. Even with omni you might not have the time to intervene, specially with large maps. The thrill of FoW is managing what sort of risks you want to take and how far you're willing to scout that scene, and since this is a management game, these sort of decision making interests me.

Then, you have the fact that you can overcome FoW and no, overcoming FoW or giving notifications/cues doesn't equal making it redundant as much as starting with a pistol and getting a rifle later makes the pistol so, or having a wood fence being replaced by a stone wall. Starting with no idea of your surroundings and living on a wood house and then evolving to a large walled colony full of sensors and cameras doesn't erase your earlier strive to achieve this stage, on contrary, it make it so more relevant.

Obviously there's the "Once per game" scene that you would love to see and remember for discussion on the forum. aside I just realized it must be useful for debugging

True, but i gotta be honest and say that everything is "once per game", and most of the cool stuff happens within view or your own pawns, and random battles are not rare, so it's really not novel after some time, specially if you have a few colonies under your belt. I guess this is just personal taste so there's really no arguing here, you might mind it more than i do so there's just that. Regarding debugging: maybe you can disable FoW for that?

"- If you have entity/groups wandering by the colony for various reason, and you want to interact with them it will take time to see what happen, gather your pawn and intercept (to say : invite to drink a beer), so best avoid a scouting hassle that fundamentally only make you waste time."

Good one. At least two ways to handle this:
FoW approach: imagine you are in this colony in a hostile world and then friendlies come to visit you. Do you and your friends just go about your business or you keep eyes on these strangers? You can go about your chores an leave them be, interacting as you go (not sure if in a10 they still hang in a single area?), but losing sight if there's no one around. But then that's a security risk. Or you could keep someone watching them, some sort of hosting job, drafting or patrolling (like patrol/guard a pawn or area). But that's an economic risk. Again, decisions. It might seem like a chore, but remember that it's a management game, and some people like these kind of decisions.
Lenient approach: Simply all visitors share LoS with you. You see what they see, at least after they reach your "hang out" area.

"- Any information on enemy, ally, animal. We don't want to consider them just as "meat" right ?"

Surely wouldn't want that! But i'm sure you could see those informations once they get within sight (pawn or sensor). Again, overcoming a disadvantage is part of the fun, at least for some. Automatically knowing all there is to know about every single creature is boring, imo.

"- Knowing what an AI is attacking first, so you can guess if they actually got around your defense of it it's luck."

Again, that's another challenging aspect of fow, not a bad thing. You could send some people there after a fight to see how they got past, most probably there will be a hole in the wall and some other wall could be damaged, prompting you to increase defense there or even put some people there next time. You don't "waste" time checking it out, that's part of the game. Also, knowing where every enemy is coming and going is what makes battles predictable and bureaucratic "oh, thats raider wave #17, cool i guess". 

"- Visitor/ally/enemy loosing items while passing/fleeing away from your colonist."

I guess it happens. I wouldn't feel cheated by not acquiring something that was lost, specially if i didn't put effort in it, such as seeing an enemy with a nifty weapon fleeing towards a direction and not sending anyone after it, but i sure would feel rewarded if i found stuff by indeed having people look for it, or a hunter finding it by chance.
It's not like FoW prevents this for happening, it justs makes it more challenging, which is a feature not a problem.

"- Visitor/ally/enemy getting lost in fog (who said you had to be the one blind here ?)"

Yes! That would be cool wouldn't? I mean, if we could lose people, the AI should be worked to lose us/each other as well. Perhaps a tracking system could be implemented, in which pawns (or pawns with a tracker trait) had a chance to follow footprints and some terrains would make following easy, others not so much.

"- avoiding potentially important items meant for storytelling getting damaged/stolen because you can't afford making a important colonist into a mindless patrol drone just to know it was here."

Not sure about the existence of such items, at least of yet, nor if items can be stolen, but i'm sure we can think of ways to prevent such story-items from disappearing. Then again, losing or getting them damaged is an story itself, and a pawn patrolling isn't anymore mindless than a pawn growing stuff or crafting. I don't get why all the hate on patrolling besides not giving a palpable result, if security isn't one. Well, i guess some might be annoyed by having to manage one extra thing, but adding patrolling isn't any more wrong than if in RW we didn't have to take care of growing and feeding our pawns and then growing and eating was introduced in a patch. It wouldn't be any more wrong than adding patrolling, except for personal reasons and preferences.

"- if a stampede of Buffalo pass, why hide the spectacle ?"

Not that this game is any skyrim but i get your point. But then, like in skyrim, the beauty imho is seeing things as you go. So perhaps every 6 months a herd pass by the same area, you might get warned or prompted by texts or perhaps game cues like sound and footprints, then one time you decide or happen to watch one (or you finally get your sensors to open the area). The extra effort, imo, make it more impactant. Again, FoW doesn't prevent the event, just makes it more challenging.

But sure, i could only agree with you that, if this only happened once, then it's something that we'd lose by having FoW, but I don't see why herd migrations should be a one time event.

"- There's a Migrating herd and you don't want to need scout/patrol/lucky blind hunter to know."

Similar to above, only that i'd add: If you don't need, then don't bother, although the question should be "why aren't we hunting the herd?".

Again, you're not wrong, it's personal taste, but for me there's no novelty after you see the same event two or thrice.

"- Animals starting to eats food from recent drop pod or simply doing animal-stuff (could be relaxing to watch while your colonist work their ass off)"

I agree with you on this one (who says we have to disagree on everything right?), although i got to point that LoS might reach enough for you to experience that, perhaps not as much. Then, early game (in my mind) should be tense enough for you to care more about survival rather than relaxing watching animals (like hunting said animals), and a larger established colony could/should have means to increase LoS or reveal the area so you enjoy just as you did.

Quick reminder: FoW doesn't prevent such events or behaviors, they might at best challenge or delay it. Overcoming LoS doesn't erase what you had to fight until you overcame it, it doesn't make FoW obsolete or redundant.

"- If a psychic probes is making all animal fight each other, you'll want a global view."

Meh, never cared for that, or even remember seeing it, but i guess mileage may vary. Either way, the above applies here aswell.

"- If a psychic probes (what if yours ?) is making raider/visitor insane, you'll want to see it even if they are away."

Yes, if people want to have everything in control and perfect (see what, how and why the enemy is doing without putting effort), else you could send people there, or apply the above.

"- If there's heavy terrain/climate change (agreed FoW proponent usually agree to see the terrain)"

Not sure i understand. Yes, usually FoW allows for you to see terrain or at least keep it after being explored. Terrain and climate changes should be felt with or without FoW? I mean, surely it takes effect in the whole map.

"- If there's a predator lurking around and you don't want it to depend on a "must kill" Events you can prefer to be able to check on him without requiring a constant scout/patrol"

Avoid AI behavior could handle that, or behavior settings, such as aggressive, defensive, coward, etc. Such as set your gatherers to run from hostiles on sight or to change path so to avoid it (which is something we need with or without FoW), and hunters to shoot hostiles on sight.

Then we can have novelty stuff, like tracking guns or sound cues. Or we could manage them, which is way Tynan set a low population count for the game.

Either way, if you know there's a dangerous animal lurking and don't take precautions, then it's on you.

"- Poisonous gas around geyser (seen indirectly on animal getting sick)"

Not sure i understand that one. I don't see how FoW prevents that.

"- Invasive flora, like carnivorous flora (Feed me !!!!) or just plants growing around your installation.
- Invasive fauna, (not notified because they are natural/not too dangerous) like say beaver cutting tree.
- possible abandoned trap (seen only by the player, not the colonist)"

Not sure how FoW prevents any of that. If the plague/fauna is encroaching on your stuff, you should be able to see. Noting that the entire map is suffering from that only after it reaches you (which should be rare, because there's hunting) could make for some ompf story "all hands on plant cutting, NOW!".

Don't know about traps (is there traps now?), but if the colonists can't see it i don't see why you should. I mean, why would any other game out there that have traps would show it to you? Isn't the point of a trap to trap you? Unless of course the pawn perceive the trap, then it either don't activate it or it warns you.

"- Visitor looking at a statue you put far away from the base for reasons."

Well, it could be a camera statue! Or visitors could share LoS, as above. Either way, FoW doesn't prevent that from happening.

- Raider getting killed trying to steal a trapped statue you put far away from base.

I guess those statue traps (didn't knew they were a thing) could provide a small LoS. Or it just adds to the challenge that FoW provides. "Hmm, i'd better check that trap, see if someone activated it... Oh, there's the corpse, yep it activated alright, i hope you don't mind parting with that rifle mr."

Last with an important aspect : combat tactic
This is not just "combat stuff", the tactic you try/use have a relevance in how you want to write your story. If you aren't given the information and time you need to attempt plan like "attack at night" you won't even try.
Right now the AI is dumb & focused on mindless destruction, but if it was smarter and less predictable, omniscience could be not a luxury, nor a cheat, but a required balance.

FoW or the concept of FoW (such as a FPS game where you don't know where is the enemy) doesn't so much prevent you to do stuff as much as it makes you work for it. With FoW all options are open, they might not work, but they are there for you to take your shot. Omniscience not so much. Would you send a single guy after 10? No, you'd pick 5 guys with snipers and pick them off one by one. If there's a guy flanking around, you prepare for that. Everything is laid out for you and you only lose if you're bad at math or get a bad luck roll.

Now, that may seem like extra effort or that it would only work against players, but it really doesn't. I mean, sure with the current A.I and raiding frequency and amount FoW would make it unbearable, but should it be implemented i'm sure the game would be rebalanced around it (which is why a toggle on/off is not the best of ideas). The A.I could simulate being lost as much as you, although i can see why it could be a hard programming task. Hard, not impossible and not unworthy imho.

Then, the challenge of betting on a tactic and the rush of executing it is the thrill of FoW. "It's night. Do i send a scout? Yes. Ok i found them and they haven't noticed me. Do i shoot a couple of them and run or do i go back silently? Do i spend the night watching them until they start attacking or i get him back to give him rest? Do i arm my other pawns and mount an assault or do i wait in the safety of my town? Will it be enough? How many should i send? How many should stay? Who? What positions?" These are the sort of decisions that while do happen to certain degree with omni, they are devoid of any real conflict, they create somewhat predictable stories.

I can understand why some people who are more attuned to the building aspect of the game could be put off by this more intense experience, but that's why there's director's like phoebe builder and challenge %, and there's no shame in that, but that's hardly a problem with FoW or FoW not matching RW (which is not true) than personal play style. Btw, these different playstyles the game attracts is a peculiarity of rimworld, being such a hybrid and in early development it really is "deciding" what to be, which is why we have so many and diverging suggestions popping around. But that's a digress.

The WONDERFUL Eye of the storyteller is what give all the tension to this event.
To quote the king of suspense, Alfred Hitchcock :
�There is a distinct difference between "suspense" and "surprise," and yet many pictures continually confuse the two."

In our case, seeing there is wolf around and wondering when, if they do, one will attack your colonist, is the tension. You'll be continually torn between keeping all your colonist safe or letting them work, never knowing if suddenly the pack of wolf will change course.

And what if a colonist was outside when a Wolf pack event start ? If you are blind, you'll simply ask him to get back ASAP in straight line hoping he don't meet one. With the great Eye of the storyteller you can SEE if the wolf pack will intercept him and have him stop, run away in a non-ideal direction until you can prepare a rescue party. (which if the survival was based on blind-luck, would be pointless)

Although you bring a good quote, the comparison is not applicable: Hitchcock is talking about movies while this is a game. You can show and pull suspense in a movie because the audience can't interact, nothing they say will stop the monster to appear or the plane to explode.

Omniscient rimworld Has no suspense, only surprise and only for a short amount. Once an event starts it's usually an instant surprise  at the edge of the map with plenty of time to react in the best of manner. There's no "your sensors pick up a large amount of raiders moving your way" and then them showing just a day later. No, people just pop in.
There's no build-up, only raw tension, as yourself said it. . It's just math= "With my speed and that wolves speed, can i reach safety? It's not bad, it's just devoid of any suspense or dread.

FoW, on the other hand, provides both. If you think it does not, just think that FoW in games provides an experience closer to real life than omniscience. I mean, we all have felt suspense and surprise in our lives, haven't we? And we surely aren't omniscient.

Sure, if you only get owned by wolves out of nowhere, that's only surprise, but i'm thinking all sort of cues and clues could be given. What's more iconic than wolves howling? If there's wolves howling then there's wolves around. If there's wolves around then they could attack you, uh-oh! You could even "hear" the direction of the sounds, approaching you.  They might get to you, or they might not!

Phew, that's it. That's a long ass post, i don't blame people for not reading it. Anyway, have in mind that my detailed response isn't personal nitpick antagonizing, as some previous people have taken it, but just reflects my interest in the subject and duty for the interlocutor.

I think this isn't special or important enough to warrant a space in the already cluttered jobs overview, which is a policy the dev tries to follow (avoiding cluttering, that is).

But i like the idea of cheering up rimmers, so how about instead of a new job just for that we could use the warden job? It's very similar already, or perhaps use the joy system?

Yeah, i was about to write a lenghty (don't worry it would be a polite one) answer, point by point, but really it all boils down to:

Anti-FOW hate the idea exactly for the reason pro-FOW like it

A lot, if not all, of the anti-fow argument is a feature for pro-fow, so it's really a moot point. Might as well just focus all this undirected energy to provide positive arguments for their own side *hints*hints*
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Only argument I don't really get is what are all those stories that would be missed with FoW? The only one that is repeated ALL the time is watching raiders interacting with the map, which boils down to attacking fauna or other factions. This is maybe 1 or 2 stories, not several. It gets old, at least for me, and FoW doesn't prevent, just delay these sort of story or requires exploring.

What else is there in terms of story making that only omniscience gives? (that's a real question, not rhetorics)


P.S.: At this point in rw's development, i think it's far more beneficial to discuss "how" would FoW be implemented and not "should it?"

Edit: actually, its a benefit for the community more than RW dev. stage. Its hard discussing the should if we cant discuss the how without it turning into flames

[is]

To be honest, reasons that FoW isn't comparable to "wargames" and - most commonly referred: a blizard-like rts game, have also been provided, if not in this thread, at least in the several preceding it.

Most people bashing FoW thinks, for some reason, that it will make the games focus more on the tactical warfare aspect, while it can very much mean the opposite: dealing with less nauseous and repetitive invasions and more on the psychological aspect of not having omniscience and most likely having the whole man vs nature way more predominantly than the non-existance of it now.  I don't know for others, but mxn is very important for me in a survival game, be it a fps or a management-builder hybrid.

Likewise, we can't assume that adding FoW won't be a gain, just because. This would be assuming that "being unable to see enemies through walls in battlefield would be bad because i feel lost without having everything shown to me". Yes, fog of war happens in fps too and pretty much any game where a player struggle to obtain information in a possible hostile environment.
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The only two pertinent cons of FoW would be its development time and possible extra micromanagment. For the first, i think it's worth the investment, for the latter i'd say some thought must be made to indeed not become a click fest. But i see no problem with setting guarding and patrol zones/waypoints and let it be done automatically, saving special instances. Afterall, this is a management game and security is a management issue as well, i don't see why the rancidity on this specifically.

Then we get stuff like fear of losing control and incapability to accept loss. As we all know, save scumming is a bad habit that instant save-load gaming brought us to feel the need to always be in control. I'm not going to say how people should play their game, but losing a fave pawn because you screwed up or because of chance is not bad design or because FoW doesn't or shouldn't belong in the game, it's a player's inability to cope with loss and letting it go. Not knowing what is out there brings anxiety, which, again, is a feature, not a problem. In good stories good people also die.

Finally, there's people saying that FoW won't add to the stories, which i can't agree because there wasn't even an exercise in thought to at least come up with something. It's impossible that FoW won't bring any new stories, the discussion should be on which give us more stories.

just some random stories:

Day 1. Planetfall - No FoW

"We crashlanded on the planet JM-524c, the surface and local climate is similar to earth tundra biome. Our scans mapped the whole area and we pinpointed the perfect location to estabilish camp, it has a chockepoint for possible defense - should it come to that - and is close to some good resources. Our scans shows some animals and our hunters know exactly where to hunt for them. Thankfully to our sensors, we know where to get wood for some basic infra-structure and to keep us warm. Our built-in wrist omni-tool shows constant area surveillance, should any hostiles come in the vicinity we will know instantly. A word of thanks to Weyland-Yutani for these omni-tools, we'd be having really harder otherwise!"

Day 1. Planetfall - Fog of War

"We crash-landed on the planet JM-524c, the surface and local climate is similar to earth tundra biome. We didn't get a chance to scan the area and our omni-tools is no good here without sats...We are blind here. We crashed in a open area and we scrapped some of the fallen resources. We decided to make camp here for today, but tomorrow we should find a better place, because despite some bushes with a few berries there's little food here and our rations wont last forever, so we need to move asap. Luckily, Bill was doing a little reconnaissance today while we worked on a small hut (god, wish we had the technology to build tents) and he saw lots of footprints in the snow, some kind of quadruped animals, food! We should be moving north tomorrow, following those footprints. I hope they are prey, not predators. Definitely not going south, we heard some nasty growling from the woods that way. God help us all"

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Day 249 - "crashtown" colony - No FoW

"Today morning we finished our third outer walled sentry slaughter-hall. Since hostiles always come from that direction and our omni-surveillance tool gives constant feedback, we can work ourselves out in whatever we want - We are making a little fortune here! and have no worries, except for those pesky orbital drops, but those are not so bad lately. A few hours later we received our raid #43. As usual we followed standard procedures and went to our designated posts. Since our omni-revealer gives constant updates we really have no surprises there, so we allocate people to stations as needed. To be honest, at first we had a lot of fun watching those assholes through our wrist-tool screens doing dumb stuff with random animals or just shooting each other...But nowadays is kind of just ok. I mean, it's still fun, but we've seen the same shit over and over, and cleaning up all the mess later is boring and disgusting. But i really gotta say, the zoom capability of our wrist-tools are darn incredible, i mean i can even see what kind of wounds those fuckers have or even their thoughts and personalities! Well, gotta go, another crashed resource batch fell on quadrant C-12 and guess who's fetching it? At least i know it won't happen anything to me. God bless technology"

Day 249 - "Crashtown" colony - Fog of War

"We finished building our outer wall today, hopefully it will stop things like last month's accident with julia and that damn lizard thing coming out of nowhere. Morgan is still researching better scans so at least we'll know if something is moving toward us, i hope it gets finished soon, because he stopped working on those farming improvements to working on the scans. Anyway, I've seen the prototype, should raiders attack us their movement pattern will betray their positions and we could prepare. Sometimes they are just visitors, but you never know, have to always be careful in the frontier. That's why Ross volunteered to patrol duty last month. Everyone knew he didn't want to but everyone knew he was the best for it. We could use another hand in the farms or at the walls, but we simply cannot be blind out there, specially after those raiders started appearing, and there's the fact he even brought a deer last time. Sometimes he gets to see (and his wrist-tool feeds it to us, thankfully!) them raiders fighting animals or other raider-folks, it's really fun actually, seeing them shoot each-other for a change...Well, sometimes he just stumbles upon some battle remains, dead people everywhere, we just wonder what might have happened and place a motion-rod there so we get an alarm going. Yeah, we also loot the bodies. Life in the frontier baby"

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As i wrote on another FoW thread, i think we should focus on what good comes out of having or not having fow brings, instead of battling for the negative ones. I'm much more interested and find much more fruitful to hear from neutral people or from people that provides examples of stories we can build with each "side" instead of hearing naysaying from both sides. But then, that is just my humble opinion.

As for me, i already know what not having FoW brings, and i'm not impressed.  Now I'm just trying to find out how much better FoW is over the limited stories omniscience brings. Unless, again, people provide more positive examples of it.

Lets go people, be creative

Chances are that, if playing a cooperative match, players will try to cooperate. Most likely they will be friends playing over skype or TS. What and how to do stuff is part of the fun.

Competitive is tricky, but there's very little except people's own prejudice to say against coop gaming. I'm yet to see any game that wasn't improved by having coop or that it lost anything from having it.
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Comparing skyrim and fallout's solid, plot-heavy, scripted single player experiences to rimworld is not a good comparative.

[reeaally]

Hhahaha this is absurd yet I so want it to happen. I mean, sure, bugfix and update all you want, but also what you are reeaally doing.

Also, he missed the opportunity to make an april's fool "started working on z-levels and multiplayer" log

I think that independent of secondary formulas, main factor should be number of colonists (or colonists seen) and their equipped weaponry  or armor. No real use of wealth (despite calling for reinforcements) or lots of guns if there are no people to use/wear it.

Well, to be honest we have had our fair share of battering ram suggestions, so its not like we're losing anything
(sorry, no offense meant)

Agreed. I'd say there should always be a chance, but chance depends on season, tile (what's on it), weather and pawn exposure.

Exposed wounds should do something as well as constant contact in corridors and sharing rooms for long periods.

There were even others before, in bundled suggestions or thrown in random comments. But i think we should focus on the ideas that have their own threads.

(post)

Oh, i never meant to imply it was an original idea, but one could be fooled by the fact that we didn't have a stickied one up so far.
(although i did find the last one was unstickied by Tynan https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3809.0)

I understand where you are coming from, but the fact that it could be bad for Tynan (at least feel-wise) to drop statements here, doesn't mean it would be bad for the community/game. The fact remains that he *does* make statements here and there, and the point would be to make it readily available for anyone interested, instead of having it lost over the pages until someone necro it. It doesn't matter if he doesn't want to drop a comment in here, but if he does it somewhere else i find it important that it's made readily available.

Your concern is also true, but I don't think the purpose of the topic is to stop people from discussing on listed features, the point is to provide a place to move the discussion further instead of walking in circles. If someone wants to start the #49th topic on breeding then its cool, but starting the 49th topic on breeding that looks exactly the same as 40 of them then it gets annoying.

I believe that if that newcomer, with the usual fervor, sees a stickied common suggestion lists and sees his suggestion there, he might at least try and put some effort in his post (or don't post at all), or go towards a direction which was never explored or improve on a part of his thought that is novel. bad case scenario he just does as usual.

The problem on keeping the list is true, hence ideally we'd have a very active and wiling member (and helpers) or have a joint account.

question: is there a spoiler button? I wish we could spoiler non-essential/side comments to keep it from cluttering

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Some more:

Tools - Having tools needed for jobs or for improving  job efficiency

Raider behavior improvement - Avoids pillboxes, destroy walls, have specific objectives, etc.

Ammo for weapons

More power generation - Coal, radioactive, lighting, biomass, etc.

Extra traits - People always want extra traits, i've seen about 3-4 topics specific about this and a dozen traits in bundled suggestions

Extra events - Same as above

Extra zones - For fire fight, for visitors, for cleaning, for forbiding, etc. That's an all time favorite.

Bridges

Auto-equipping - Weapons, tools, apparel

Alarm bell / codes - To trigger a set of behavior (stay inside home zone, only do X or Y, equip weapons/armor, etc)

Rally points / Safe houses / Recall - Usually tied with above.

Better damage resolution

Multiplayer - self-explanatory

Tactical combat - Tactical options from tactical games, such as prone, crawl, suppression, and automatic behaviors: aggressive, cautious,
defensive.

Turrets overhaul - Extra turrets, turrets limitations (ammo, number, resources, AI cores, etc), mountable turrets, turrets made with
available weapons, etc.

Movable furniture - To keep you from needing to destroy it

Colonist-specific stations - i.e, assigning specific pawns to a station, possibly with a timetable, to better manage which pawns does what and where. Could be fixed by the new timetables update?

Personal Hygiene - Usually tied with water system

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I'll try and provide links later. I've made the above before finding the last suggestions thread, but it's worth taking a look at it.

Agreed on a new damage/armor category. I'd rather see [slash] rather than [sharp]. 

Funnily enough the game has a [cut] damage type, but it works and is absorbed as piercing.  http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Damage_Types

I've been wanting to do a "grand suggestion list" post for quite some time now (alas, time is short), were we could list both the commonly suggested as well as new ones. That way we prevent idea wanking, prevent cool ideas to vanish, we have a sense of progression while discussing such topics and also an easy place for Tynan to look at we have been suggesting and a place to have his comments on each subject, such as: "yeah, i'm going to do it!" "cool, mods should do it!", "i might do it", "sounds cool but unlikely", "i will probably not do it" and "no way i'm doing it".

We/I might start a new topic with more details (hopefully with links to specific discussions) were first posters dedicate to edit it or you could keep editing this one based on what we throw in the comments. Either way this forum needs this type of topic.