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What does this mod lacks? Or is it the state of perfection? Did anyone even played it? It's updated 2 days ago btw, or was it 3.

I've read Madman's reply in EPOE, and I think one way to make super soldier is to reduce pain torso take and increase organ hit chance, so when you replace organs with synectics you become totally awesome, no bleeding no pain hulk. If you want really space marine like hulk you'll also need to increase all bodyparts hp by 4 - 6 times as well.

I think one thing lacks with the mod is that there is no cool battle pictures in the thread.

Makes sense. But also you'd have to do something about the scar pain. I have scars, they don't constantly sting.

You don't get scars on bionic if I know correctly.

Even if you give your colonists most advanced stuff you can imagine pawns doesn't really feel that powerful, and in fact fragile as ever. They don't provide any more hp than their flesh counterparts. (Some people seems believe bionics provide additional hp, they don't. http://i.imgur.com/5JsBgFt.jpg)

So I've got the idea : Why not make pain and bleeding more significant.

Changes would be something like these.

Increase bleed injury cause by 2 or 3 times.

Increase bleed punctured organ cause by 2 or 3 times.

Increase chance each hit puncturing organs by 2 times.

Decrease pain and bleeding torso cause by 1/3. (This is necessary as there is no way to replace torso without replacing entire body.)

Increase pain pawns receive by 2 times.

Increase every body parts hp by 6 times.

Now body parts has 6 times more hp so you might think this is going to be too easy, but since they'll just drop down from pain and will die within one or two hours it's not any easier than vanilla, and in fact provide more challenges, and a bit realistic. It's also kind of like FPS or RPG games in that you die if you reach 100% blood loss.

Now that's unless you don't have bionics. Synthetic organs will no longer bleed or feel pain. Brain injury is automatically healed and the heart doesn't bleed. The only way to kill these pawns are destroying practically every single body parts, and they don't even drop and incapped since they don't feel pain, and with having 6 times more hp they're practically centipedes that can be controlled. It's also not really overpowered since you could just build 30 turrets with the resources.

At least this is what I see the only way to implant without C#, and in fact pretty easy.

Thoughts?

This would beg the question why are enemies not finishing the wounded, especially when there's no threat in sight.

Unless it's personal revenge there is no reason to. Remember raiders are here to capture colonists and steal stuff, not just mindlessly killing everything.

Manhunters and insect on other hand...

Looking at how game-y and arbitrary Rimworld is in certain aspect, maybe Tynan thinks having 'tanks' and 'damage dealers' is a good thing ??

Then why not just allow building tanks and let them tank? The personal shield shouldn't be used as ranged decoy tool, and setting shooting priority is the way to go.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/5wmtud/typical_tuesday_suggestion_thread_february_28_2017/debd3i9/

I think biggest problem with melee and game in general, is that shooting doesn't really have priority and just unload onto nearest target they can find.

This means a) Your melees will drop like flies as the enemy will shoot at whatever is closest, which guaranteed overkill one of your colonist that ran 0.1 c/s faster than others.

b) Your gunners will kill one enemy at a time. Example : If 5 megaspiders, 5 small and faster insects charge at your direction. Your gunners will unload everything onto small bugs, even though one colonist will be enough to kill it. You can reduce this effect somewhat by having difference guns but it's limited.

c) Worse, they start shooting at themselves because they don't consider friendly fire. This is even more troublesome if you're melee since raiders will drop everything onto themselves to kill yours while your gunners will do same.

And this is 10x worse with mechanoids because: Scythers have lots of firepower per unit which makes focused fire 100% death to anybody. Centipedes become useless because you can distract them with one shielder in front and just have lots of other people stand out of cover and shoot. Centipede will never attack anything else than shielder.

Solution : Make pawns shoot targets based on factors.

If a target is targeted by more than x allies, change target. X scales to target health, so creatures like thrumbos get focus fired while small bugs targeted by only one colonist.

If shooting at target might hit allies, change target or don't shoot.

If the gun loses significant accuracy, change target.

4. Personal Shield is used for anything BUT melee combat
Personal Shield is merely average at letting melee fighters engage with ranged combatants. What it excels at is abusing raider AI, and serving as a decoy (in cover) in prolonged shootouts. In particular, Personal Shield transforms the most brutal enemies in the game into the easiest!.

I think this will be solved if priority AI is fixed. If your personal shielder is behind a cover raiders will search for difference target as there is no merit for shooting at a target with no threat and no way to breaking the shield. If 10 personal shield soldiers start charge raiders will distribute their fires in an attempt to prevent overkill.

download link ?

Click image below "Download SafePower:"

Hand injuries are very common in real life tho. My dad is missing 3 fingers on his right hand from an industrial accident. Our bodies maybe resilient, but in real life you are more likely to lose fingers than to die from a gunshot wound to the chest. Also eyes are very squishy and can easily be damage in real life.

Well game doesn't have to be perfectly realistic does it? And realistically missing 3 finger doesn't mean losing 30% manipulation, which is basically same effect of losing 60% of a limb.

    1.2 Melee combat causes many lost limbs, fingers, and scars
    It can be pretty ridiculous, for example 3 colonists + war beasts escorting them, surrounding a wolf and attacking him simultaneously. BAM, wolf bites your thumb off in first hit, permanent -10% Manipulation and pain.
    There is a separate thread arguing reliance on permanent injuries is not fun.

I'm playing with my VE-CO mods and I lost only single thumb 3 year in, with mostly short range guns and melees.

Problem in vanilla is that each toe and fingers has around 0.5% chance to hit, it doesn't look big except a) They have only 7 hp, so practically any attack destroys it. b) 0.5% x20 is 10%, so basically every time a pawn gets attacked it has 10% chance to suffer permanent injury.

Limbs being ridiculously weak is another problem, and even ranged suffers for it.

Also people of rimworld feel too little pain, and they fight to death. Realistically stabbed by knife or getting shot 5 times and bleeding from organs will disable pretty much everyone unless a) They are armored. b) Or they use drugs, such as go-juice.

So my solution: Increase hit point of limbs.

decrease hit chance of toes, fingers and eyes.

Increase pain each wound cause so pawns that attacked drops down quicker, instead of fighting to death. This also increase survival rate of colonist since they'll just drop and no longer aggro attack.

Its not a bug really, its vanilla game mechanism to prevent rapid overpopulation of colonies, by having ~60% to kill any pawn thats not related to the colony upon being downed with whatever reason (bloodloss, leg shot off etc.), I am sure you know that.

No this is difference. That mechanic kill off pawns when they are non-colonist and happen when downed. This one kills when blood loss reaches 40%, and only when you have other diseases that reduce consciousness, probably due to conscious loss stacks on top of each other.

Is MFO supposed to use so much RAM? While normally the game takes about 800MB of RAM with the MFO enabled it jumps to 1.5GB, I alse get a massive performance decrease

That's odd. Mine uses 1.5GB regardless of MFO and VE-CO, although I used lots of mods.

Hmm, am I the only noticed pawns sometimes drop die from "blood loss" even though they lost only 40%-60% blood? It seems it happens because blood loss reduce conscious and pawns die if conscious hit 0. This doesn't happen unless pawn already lost some conscious from other means and I think this bug exist in vanilla as well. I fixed it by adding setmax, instead of offset. Will released along with tougher animal.

Why so centered on melee? Melee mostly sucks, even high melee skill doesn't do much. In my opinion melee needs like complete and utter overhaul from skills (different things like dodge, counters, blocks, grazes, knockdowns for animals - pounces, - its too primitive right now, it adds just hit chance which is quite high anyway). Its sucks mostly because you're always outnumbered and with current melee system a godlike 20 lvl figher can easily lose just by RNG to a complete novice, so its not viable at all. The only way melee is useful is if you have a bunch of enemies with ranged weapons, that you can instantly force into melee, while your guys have proper melee weapons, giving you advantage (that still can be negated if enemies heavily outnumber you).

In A14 or A15 I made a mod that higher quality weapons has shorter cooldown time and legendary sword allowed me to attack almost three times per enemy punch, so it was ridiculously overpowered and it was "viable", so I'd say godlike melee is rather easily possible if they make melee skill reduce cooldown and increase damage. It increased damage so high that even centipedes died within second.

Though this isn't for melee. In my current run all of my guys armed with shotguns and heavy SMGs with few melees and it's very viable, especially since they don't lose bodyparts like in vanilla. Problem is though, I have few bears and wolves but they are mostly useless, so that's why I want to buff them.

Those advanced shields... well they can be useful to equip on a "bullet sponge" colonist to redirect fire, but I doubt people will actually switch to melee. Too many enemies to deal with, while the danger is too high. Losing limbs in melee is too easy.

It would be useless for bullet sponge pawns since it doesn't really regenerate in battle, it's more useful when you try to breach through and need to redirect first fire.

How exactly are you plan to make wolves and bears invincible? Right now if you send someone to hunt in winter on the other end of the map and a hungry wolf decides to hunt him - in 90% of times he'll be dead, because wolves pretty much can't be defeated with bare fists and hunter always have ranged weapon. And you don't get the notification until wolf is already tearing him apart. Making them even more powerful can have... unwanted side effects. I am all up for diversifying melee combat and increasing combat pets usefulness, but I can't imagine it without incorporating a whole new melee system with mentioned things like pounces, deadly bear hugs, dodges and etc... I'd really like to have that, but that would probably require either insanely advanced coding expertise for a modder or for big T to make it himself.

I'm going to... increase their body parts hp. That's it. Invincible as in take few shots in the arms without losing goddamned body parts.

I don't think it will affect their hunting aspect, as I'm not planning to increase their damage. Though if you make them follow you they could helped you survive.

You are kidding right? 10 times tougher shield? If you get a "shield wave" of trasher melees you're done for! If you get like 5-10 of them they already swarm you even if you have turrets and now you want to make them invulnerable to ranged fire? Is that to inspire people to use melee more? No, thanks, being melee when ratio friend to enemy is 1:3 1:5? Nope.

I was actually thinking about an upgraded version of personal shield so not really accessed by the raider, with around power armor level of research requirement + rare resource like gold. With separate release from VE-CO. That mod would be kind of like super-awesome-melee modpack.

Also, I was thinking making big creatures like wolves and bears nearly invincible(but still vulnerable to bleeding and pain) would be awesome, but I wonder if that would be balanced...

To make melee more viable we need medivel shield mod from skullywag in my opinion. Melee skill in general are just utterly lackluster in vanilla.

Also I think I can use MAI mod to make scythers and centipedes craftable, obviously should be separated release.

I actually made this mod but I didn't updated it, but I think it's compatible if you just increase the numbers in about.xml. Called emergency treatment in medical complication.

I think there's also other mod does similar.

This get away from vanilla, but wouldn't the best way to deal with blood loss in emergency situations be blood transfusions?  Wouldn't close their wounds or staunch the flow, but refills their precious bodily fluids so that they can stay among the living a little longer.

Because it would be hard to code. If someone can make field treating and slower blood regenerate with blood transfusions would make nice realism mod.

The problem, is simply that game doesn't really have any attack priority, they just attack nearest target. This is problematic because this means a) Your colonists will overkill one raider at a time. b) Raiders will overkill your colonist.

Experiment :

1. 10 assault rifle, 10 snipers, 5 melees, armored bunker vs Raiders 16 gunners, 10 slashers, without any defense. Around 35 tiles away.

http://i.imgur.com/iAgdG7a.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TX16vix.jpg


It would make sense that gunners focus on gunners and melee fight against melee right?

Nope. They attack only one target that's closest to them and overkill it.


Allowing raiders to :

a) Completely overrun the bunker. 20 guns should be enough to slaughter 10 personal shield slashers but they kill only one or two at a time(Notice second picture, most raiders are practically unharmed while around 3 slashers are dead. Again, why stone-chunk-killbox is important so raiders can't even reach in the first place.)

b) Enemy gunmen are completely unharmed because colonists are only attacking slashers. This is especially problematic if they have rocket launcher. You have to manually select and attack who to who or the colonists go complete retard.

c) If that's not stupid enough, they unload everything onto your melee guys and themselves trying to shoot at slasher.

d) Sniper rifle has low accuracy in close range, which means guaranteed to miss and hit your colonist!

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http://i.imgur.com/S5R846T.jpg

Result in almost slaughtered colony. Please don't go "It failed because inefficient defense" because this is purely done to show the flaw of AI, not optimal defense.

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This is also why infests are huge problem. around 5 bursts of assault rifle is enough to kill a megaspider, except they'll fire everything onto a target(usually smaller and faster bug.) and rest of bugs can reach colonists mostly unharmed, and then colonists will fire guns at themselves and kill each other.

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This is also why melee play(and short range guns) is harder, the closer to raiders the more likely get focus fired and lose colonist.

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This AI is actually extremely beneficial for storyteller because they have unlimited amount of raiders. It doesn't matter if they win or not as long as they can kill at least one colonist or body part per raid, to make colony eventually become too unstable it fell itself. All they need to do is unload everything onto a colonist so he would die.

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I think this is also why killboxes prevalent. Split or kill them without allowing them to take a single shot. Because as they send more raiders the more retarded AI become, this become necessary.

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Solution : Make pawns shoot targets based on factors.

If a target is targeted by more than x allies, change target. X scales to target health, so creatures like thrumbos get focus fired while small bugs targeted by only one colonist.

If shooting at target might hit allies, change target or don't shoot.

If the gun loses significant accuracy, change target.

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X-com 1 also had a similar problem that's fixed in the sequel. If you make 6 soldiers overwatch and 3 enemy moves they fire everything on the first target that moves and rest of aliens are completely unharmed.

Even realistically, if 10 soldier is in trench and 10 enemies are charging they would fire at whatever is front of them, not 8 out of 10 soldiers shoot at an unlucky guy that ran 0.10 c/s faster than others.