Messages

I'm still not convinced that MAI should have a social skill part.
But maybe I'll add it for the enhanced MAI, BUT with a skill of 0 to start with. She'll have the enhanced learn ability but 0 skill to start with. That way she can LEARN to be socially adept, but doesn't start out with it.

Perhaps you could make it as an optional module that adds a new research that enables it.
That way those who want it can have it, and those who don't want it can ignore the optional module. Put simply, an option defended by "If you don't like it, don't use it."

Data from Star Trek again comes to mind, of how his character evolved over many seasons and through several movies. Going from socially inept/ignorant despite all his knowledge to being a little more relateable, if not still having his own quirks. And having an antisocial sort of 'older brother' Lore...

Shouldn't you rename it to ELIZA then ? :-)
Maybe start a poll, but i vote against Social skill.

But someone mention at some other thread about a full body protese, like at Ghost in the shell. Maybe you can transfer the pawn-brain/knowledge into a MAI body.
These MAI/pawn hybrid can have social skills :-)

Yeah, after I posted my previous post here, I brought up that subject (Ghost in the Shell Cyberbrains and full Prosthetic Bodies) in the Cybernetic Storm thread, of skipping augmenting the body, augmenting the brain, yanking it out and tossing it in a fully artificial body.
Also, end of my previous post, line starting with "Random crazy idea..."

hmmm a surgery to install a human brain that was harvested into an mai...

For best results, use Prosthophile. For worst results, use Prosthophobe and for the love of all that is good and nice don't give them a weapon.

@ Pivotal
So it doesn't work even if MD2Base is the first thing loaded after Core?


For the Deep Storage not accepting items.
Make sure it is configured right, that it has only one type of item set to be stored in each one, and that it is the higher priority than other stockpiles you have that could take the item in question.

I've had a few times where pawns refuse to carry goods to Deep Storage until after they first carry it to a lower priority stockpile.
Either the Deep Storage has an occasional short delay between storing a stack before it can accept another stack, or some other issue is at work.

Something made me bring up Ghost in the Shell in another thread.
Then it dawned on me.
This mod could use something like full prosthetic bodies.
Skip the whole thing of augmenting a body, just augment the brain, yank it out, and toss in in a fully artificial body.
Make our own Six Trillion Space-dollar Pawn.

Something else I wanted to mention.
The Nanotech Turret seem more expensive than the Cybernetic Turret to me.
(100 plasteel and 50 nanomites for Nanotech vs 200 plasteel for Cybernetic)
isn't the Cybernetic tech supposed to be better than the Nanotech tech? Or am I getting stuff backwards?
That 50 nanomites seems a bit harder to get to me than the extra 100 plasteel, partly due to a few other mods providing alternative ways to get plasteel.

...
Two questions
Do Enhanced MAIs lack the social skill and warden ability, or is it only the standard MAI that lacks them?
What gun is that on the automated weapon base in the image showing the MAI production chain and weapon bases? (and where does one find it?)

Both MAIs don't have any social skills. They are robots, why should they care about social stuff?

*gets nervous twitch*
Why would a robot care or have social skills?
(wall of text/rant inbound)
Commander Data from Star Trek comes to mind.
A few holodeck characters from Star Trek have seemingly gained sentience and the ability to care (at least to care about their own existence)
Then there is HK-47 from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic (he needs someone to call "meat bag" after all, and he would be good at the job despite the fact he would rather shoot someone than talk to them, but he's good at following orders to not shoot people... usually. I think someone gave him Protocol Droid stuff, since he is a disgruntled translator at times...)
Protocol Droids from Star Wars. Built specifically to communicate with humans (usually as translators)
Dot Matrix from Spaceballs.
Chip from the movie Not Quite Human at least gets close enough to appear to care.
At least one gynoid from Ghost in the Shell pole vaults out of the Uncanny Valley (one that restrains 'her' owner/master without warning, before he was able to do something that would have got him shot, rather than helping him to escape)
Also, the Tachicomas (spelling?) from Ghost in the Shell. (They are robots that care AND that can pack enough firepower to make a Centipede wet itself and can outrun a Scyther and rip off Spiderman to boot, mixed in with child like innocence/curiosity.)
Naomi Armitage from Armitage The Third/Dual Matrix knows one that cares. (other than the one that becomes a plot advancement device early on)
Lots of Androids/Gynoids from both the above settings are capable of caring for and communicating with people, and even used as companions, even though they are just complex robots, then can 'appear' to care, simply by being programmed to. (that said, since one of the MAI research things is 'caring' for people, it should include psychologically and not just physically, that is being able to talk even if not capable of having any sort of emotional or social reason to do so other than to support the mental well being of others)
Casts/Caseals from Phantasy Star Onine. (kind of of an example...)
Technically the Bioroids from Appleseed. (some care about humans)
Sonny from the movie I, Robot.
WALL-E and EVE from the movie WALL-E. (By the looks of MAI, you already know who EVE is...)
That robot gal from Metropolis comes to mind. (the old B&W Silent Movie version was well worth watching... sort of undecided on the anime adaptation...)
Such robots probably also exist in every other movie/anime/cartoon/comic/manga with sci-fi themes.
Any robot/AI that could pass the Turing Test could achieve such things simply through extreme complexity, even if they didn't 'care' about anything in the first place.

So, lots and lots and LOTS of reasons why robots could care, or otherwise appear to care, even if they were still heartless, soulless, emotionless machines that couldn't 'care' about anything in the first place, beyond the simple act of emulating the appearance of caring.

That said, I would think that the Enhanced MAI would have social skills, seeing they need an AI Persona Core thing.

Even if it does not get added to the mod, could you at least tell those of us with basic modding skills, who want MAIs to care, what we need to tweak to give an Enhanced MAI the ability to be social and even handle the Warden task?


Random crazy idea... giving a colonist a 'cyber-brain'/'brain case' like Ghost in the Shell, and plugging 'that' into an MAI in place of an AI Persona Core thing... (to heck with adding stuff to the body, add the brain to another body... Like Full Prosthetic Bodies from Ghost in the Shell.)

When constructing the Droid production table.. it constructs but doesn't appear, and you cannot click or use it.

It must be not compatible with another mod currently using.. Any ideas on which mods its not working with?

Also the deep storage doesn't appear to be working correctly as well storing only 75 of ea ch item after upgrading to 1000 and 1500..

I can think of some basic troubleshooting steps.
Have you checked to make sure MD Base is loading before the other MD modules?
If you don't have EdB Mod Order, I would strongly suggest you get it. It helps with managing lots of mods, and can ensure multiple part mods like Mechanical Defense loads the base module before the other modules.

Another thing to check is if you have the latest versions of the modules.
Do you have MD2Base-5, MD2Droid-2 and MD2Storage-2 in your mod folder?

The old version of Deep Storage (MD2Storage-1) only shows a single stack, but will show in its details how much it stores total (e.g., 123/1000), and has a 'dump all' type option to eject everything it stored both the shown stack and what is stored internally (which creates a big mess of stacks all over the place with a fully filled Deep Storage III...)
The newest version (MD2Storage-2) apparently lacks such details/options, and just has a single stack that lacks the usual stack size limitations. (e.g., a stack of 495 plasteel)

I've run into an interesting with the Automatic AI Assembler now that I finally got one in my latest colony.
It appears to have a problem with stuffed floors from ItchyFlea's "Floors, Get Stuffed!" mod.

First, it stating the area is blocked when nothing in there. It seems to consider stuffed floors in front of it to be in the way.

Second, colonists would load it with silver, but not steel, while there was stuffed floors under the AI Assembler. Before they would take steel to it, I had to clear stuffed floors from under the front half of it, except where silver goes, since deconstructing that spot also set the Assembler to deconstruct.

Edit:
Two questions
Do Enhanced MAIs lack the social skill and warden ability, or is it only the standard MAI that lacks them?
What gun is that on the automated weapon base in the image showing the MAI production chain and weapon bases? (and where does one find it?)

I am guessing MAIs drinking beer is either a minor goof, or a nod to Futurama, or a goof that will be passed off as a nod to Futurama, or a nod to futurama as an excuse to not fix a goof... or something like that...

Now, if only MAIs had a kick butt energy cannon built into their arm like a certain other robot they resemble...
Maybe as an upgrade... maybe also upgrades for stuff like speed boost... or claws for added close combat capability... or a short range flamethrower if the beer drinking is a purposeful nod to Futurama... maybe upgrades that can only be given to an MAI by another MAI... (maybe sleep deprivation and forum posting don't mix well...)

I second liking the idea of having someplace for visitors.
Or at the very least, being able to place one or more 'lots' for the traders to setup tents at. It's a tiny bit annoying when they want to setup shop in my wind farm. Or when I get distracted and later get a message they are leaving and wondering where they heck they had setup shop at in the first place (like setting up shop at the far end of my wind farm, 2 screens worth away from my base...)

The Nano Printer made me about cry once. Found an awesome weapon, went to duplicate it... yeah, well in excess of 2k steel needed.
How does it calculate how much steel it takes to replicate something? Can I have an Enhanced MAI hack it System Shock 2 style for cheaper prices? You know, in case the Nano Printer is possessed by a virtual Plutocrat or something like that...

Still no pirates for some reason, still getting an error of some sort that seems related to ED.
ED Vehicles is disabled.

From the output log.

Code Select Expand

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Could not load reference to Verse.ThingDef named ShieldedHuman_Leather

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Could not load reference to Verse.ThingDef named ShieldedHuman_Corpse

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Could not load reference to Verse.ThingDef named ShieldedHuman_Meat

Not sure if I mucked up something somewhere or not. Still on 0.16.0 due to having not had a chance to trying to get the old nanno shield stuff working with new nano shield stuff.[/

Edit:
Not getting the above error anymore. Seems to be a one time thing from after I disabled ED Vehicles.
I am guessing stockpiles placed before it was disabled still had those items listed.
Still no pirates though.
end edit.


Oh, here are some off the shield ideas I mentioned having, I thought they might have some niche to fill in ED.

Mini-Shield.
Very small coverage. Only covers its own space and the adjacent spaces (5 spaces total), and be able to stand on it.  Nothing to powerful, maybe 250 shield strength tops, quick recharge rate (maybe 5-10 points per second?). Very energy efficient in sustain mode, but an energy hog in charging mode. (100 sustained, 500 charging?). 10 second cooldown if depleted or when first powered up. It would be more akin to a 'shield wall' and protect only from direct fire, and so not protect from fires or indirect fire. A basic defense option for turrets and colonists, would be researched after the Small Shield.

Static Nano Shield (okay, could use a better name)
A small shield that can be stood on, protects from fire, direct fire and indirect fire, only covers the space it is in. 500 shield strength, 100 energy sustained, 200 charging, slow recharge rate (1/second), quick cooldown (5 seconds). Meant for defensive positions for colonists, to help protect a few number of defenders from larger numbers of attackers, and poorly suited for sustained battles due to the slow recharge rate. If not to OP, also protect from melee damage. Researched after Fortress Shield.

Umbrella Shield.
Variant of the Fortress shield. Protects from indirect attacks and fires. Does not protect against direct fire, does not do much to drop pods. Not very powerful defense wise, perhaps only on par with the Small Shield in terms of shield capacity and recharge rate, with the radius and cooldown time of the fortress shield, and energy drain equal to the standard shield. Meant more to protect areas from fire, and to stop limited indirect fire only long enough to get colonists and valuable items to a safer area.
For a secondary idea, limited protection from drop pods due to weaker power than a Fortress Shield. (if possible within reason anyways)
70% chance of landing normally.
20% chance of hard landing (an idea of impacts causing ripples in the shield, possibly knocking the pod off balance so retro rockets can't fire directly in the direction of travel. If possible, occupant spawns incapacitated or wounded.)
10% chance of crashing and being destroyed on impact (maybe the fire suppression system 'hits' a retro rocket when they fire, causing them to be off balance and flip the pod instead of slowing it down.)
Researched after Fortress Shield.

A random idea that just popped into mind.
A Shield Booster. Not very energy efficient device, basically boosts the recharge rate of shields it is adjacent to, although the larger the shield the less effective the boost.
Basic energy use 25 idle, 250 assisting shield recharge.
Buffing Small Shield, 2 points per second, max 2 buffing a single Small Shield.
Buffing Standard Shield, 1 point per second, max of 4 (so all 4 sides)
Buffing SID/Fortress Shield, 0.5 point per second, max 4 for SID, 8 for Fortress Shield.
Basically an alternative to building several shield generators covering the same area.

For the Small Shield, still thinking it might be better to halve its present energy drain in recharge and sustain mode due to the small coverage area. (500 recharging, 250 sustained)

One other thing I was curious about.
Do the shields have any sort of 'armor' by any chance?
Would it be possible to make them configurable in game to take less damage from one type of damage (such as electric) but take more from other types of damage (such as sharp)
Or perhaps to have optional upgrades or variations that could give them protection from one or more types of damage?

What would happen if I were to build two SIDs covering the same length of walls/embrasures/doors? Do effects stack, such damage be split evenly between then, or maybe just have one take all the damage until depleted before the other one starts stopping damage? Or some other effect?


edit:
I had a Mechanoid Centipede shoot an incendiary round into my defense bunker, through Embrasures covered by the SID shield.
It was still at 2k shield strength at the time.
Everything else and all other incendiary rounds were stopped.
Bug? Or just a darn lucky shot like someone parking an arrow through an arrow slit from the other side at a hundred paces on a windy day?
end edit.

Thanks for the info.
I'll disable ED Vehicles then.

On the previous version (0.16.0, which I still use due to the whole nanno/nano typo fix thing), I never saw the SID 'shield effect' on Embrasures, only normal walls and doors.
Having SIDs on Embrasures is just the thing could use right now. For a panic room with turrets.
Edit:
Scratch that.
I got an SID built in my present colony and it is covering Embrasures. (edit 3: And sandbags, very handy. Intended or not? end edit 3)
Thinking back, the Embrasures that apparently weren't covered before in my previous colony were all within the areas of Small or Standard Shields, with the SID placed last. So I wonder if it was covered, just not showing the individual shield effects. or if it was an older instance of ED than I thought at the time. Whatever the cause, the issue is gone now.
end edit.


One of the merchants (I think it was an exotic goods merchant) was selling the Nanno Shield Class 1 for $0.50 each.
The ones I had (stockpiled in a storage room so they weren't degrading just from being worn) had a much cheaper price to sell to the merchant. (I think $0.08 each).
I wasn't planning to sell them, but being able to stock up on 6 more of them for 3 silver...

I have seen the Repair Mode option listed for shields other than the SID in 0.16.0, like the Standard Shield. It appears to just toggle the displayed shield coverage area on and off.
Even if it doesn't repair (haven't tested that), it's nice being able to toggle the visible shield area covered effect on and off.
Edit 2:
There are two Repair Mode icons for shields. One (SID only) shows the wrench type icon. The others and the SID also have a Repair Mode icon that looks like two green squares slightly overlapping at the corners with a green checkmark or red X based on how it is toggled. I am guessing it is a mixup with icon names.
end edit 2.

So, it's basically like Soylent Green production, but rather than using the stuff to feed algae, it's instead fed strait to colonists... not a mod I would use, but definitely an interesting concept, and likely handy for people who like colonies filled with cannibals, and maybe also for cannibals lacking jaws.

Is it just for human stuff, or can it be used for meats in generals?
You know, to make a meaty alternative to fruit smoothies for those who can't be bothered to eat fruits and vegetables in any form.
Maybe also a Cannibal Cocktail. Stroylent mixed with other liquified meat types. Either for extra flavor, nutrients (some of those pirates/tribals look pretty scrawny), or just help extend foodmeat stocks while still appealing to a colony's cannibals, and perhaps tricking regular colonists into not realizing what the added flavor in their boar flavor protein shake is...

(I can't believe I just type that stuff out...)
*quickly runs away screaming in Home Alone style*

Hello.

I really love this mod so far, although after having some recent issues, I tracked down two bugs to ED.
To ED-Vehicles to be more specific.

First, some basic info.
I do use EdB Mod Order.
I downloaded ED from Nexus.
I have tried the steps listed in the FAQ for the mod. To disable all ED mods, restart, enable ED Core, restart, enable other ED modules, restart. Also making sure all modules are after/below ED Core on the EdB Mod Order list, but it did not help with the second bug I found.
The one DLL file is present.
I don't have an account on Github, which is why I did not log the issue there.


Bug #1:
Log spam, regarding InstallScytherKnifeProtrusion.
After searching lots and lots of Reciple_Medicine/Surgery and Races_Humanoid files from assorted mods, I tracked it to ED-Vehicles/Defs/ThingDefs/Races_Humanoid.xml.
Under recipes for the shielded pawn info.

Code Select Expand

  <li>InstallScytherKnifeProtrusion</li>
I changed it to InstallScytherBlade since I saw the same basic issue mentioned in other places on the forum, and the log spam stopped.

Bug 2:
Pirates never attacking my colony. Using dev mode to start pirate raids causes an error to pop up.
A bug that confused me until after fixing bug #1, when I was able to see a new error not pushed out of sight by walls of red text from bug 1.

Code Select Expand

Could not find a type named Enhanced_Defence.PersonalShields.ShieldedPawn
I can't figure out if it is due to a mod conflict or not. (I got mod soup, so there are many suspects...)
Everything else occurs just fine. Visitors from friendly towns/tribes, hostile tribe attacks, mechanoids showing up uninvited, and a animal attacks like a herd of 2 dozen psychotic deer that make me love Embrasures even more.

Disabling ED-Vehicles allows pirate raids to occur during testing with dev mode.


Minor issue.
Personal Nanno Shield sells for $0.50
Checking the xml files, I saw the Nanno and Nano version both have a market value of 0.

Question:
Is the SIF Shield supposed to ignore Embrasures?
I am guessing it is due to no way for it to tell the difference between friendly and hostile fire.

Question 2:
Can nanno and nano shield be used together? Or otherwise would it work if I were to copy the data for the nanno shield over to the file for the nanoshield?
I ask because I don't want to restart my colony, but using the updated Nano shield module breaks my saves.
There are unopened cryopods in my present game, so I am guessing that is why updating from Nanno to Nano shield mod breaks my save. Due to on ice pawns probably being generated with nanno shields.
I used dev mode to destroy all the personal nanno shields in my colony that I could find. I also used it to find other cryopods hidden out of sight, and realize I got a Mechanoid infestation in one room, so if nanno and nano cannot be used together... I got a goal to aim for. Probably involving turrets, shields, embrasures, and a stack of steel just for a really long power line.


Opinion about the shields.
The small shields seem to use a lot of power compared to the standard shield.
Since they have 1/4 the shield radius, and cover maybe 1/16 the area, just using half the energy in sustaining mode seems a bit off.
Is there a reason for that? Such as just being a trade off for having it not be an obstacle and being smaller in terms of physical size?

Another question.
Would it be alright if I were to suggest some stray ideas I had regarding shields, and perhaps new shield types?

I do have the latest version. I did say I re-downloaded the mod. All I had noticed was for the instance I had encountered, the nanothread plants were a half day closer to being fully grown.

The odd thing is the 7z file I re-downloaded looked identical (name and size) to the one I had deleted and replaced.

I am starting to see a slow trickle of nanothread in my stockpile. It's hard to see if the issue is still occurring, on account of the game trolling my power grid in assorted ways, but it does look like nanothread plants sowed after I reinstalled the mod are lasting long enough to be harvested.

-snip-

this may sound dumb but do you have a cooler and a sun lamp to provide the right temperature/light ?

Yes.
My Hydroponics cave has Sun Lamps, along with Coolers and Heaters set to maintain 70f temp all year round.

The wild card being the 2-3 day heat wave. My main food storage freezers had no problem staying cold, so I had assumed at the time the Cooler for my Hydroponics cave would have kept up with 120+f outside temp more easily due to not having as low of a target temp.
It is also why I mentioned wondering if 2-3 days of being outside of optimal temp (due to the Cooler not keeping up) could have caused the nanothread plants growth to slow down enough to hit their age limit before being fully grown.

They had died off well after the heat wave had passed, which had occurred closer to when they were first planted.
Of note, I had used the dev mode inspection thing during my own trouble shooting using a save before they died, and the planets hit age 720000 when they started loosing health and died.

I just possibly ran into the issue with getting no nanothread.
I saw my nanoponics were replanted, but saw/found no nanothread.
With troubleshooting and looking over older autosaves, I saw they were loosing health and dying off before they could be harvested, still having 0.6 days of growth remaining when they hit 0 health.

Even after re-downloading and reinstalling the mod to be on the safe side, despite seeing no change in file name/version/size, the plants still drop to zero health right before they are fully grown. They were 0.5 days closer to being fully grown after the mod reinstall, dying at 0.1 days growth left.

Of note, I think there was a heat wave for 2-3 days after I built the nanoponics, so I wonder if the AC of my hydroponics cave might have gotten overwhelmed and had the plants go out of their optimal growth temp for to long.

With that said, is this just bad luck with events on my part, or of the nanothread plants still dying to fast in some circumstances?