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I'm not sure I actually understand what some of these people consider the core game. We have a colony simulator. No matter how you cut it being able to pick your colonists, and being able to boot out trouble makers seems pretty darn "core".

Sure it doesn't fit well with the crash landing scenario . . . but that scenario doesn't fit well with the rest of the game anymore.  Right now leaving it in the game simply confuses people.

If you crash land on a planet your goal is to survive however you can and make your way off planet and onward to your destination. If you are a colonist then your goal is to found a successful colony ON the planet and leaving is at best "Losing with Dignity".

The rich explorer is here by choice. He obviously has an exploration ship in orbit and could leave at any time. If he prospers, however, he can recruit new colonists and found his own settlement. He might even barter with passing ships so they come back with a bunch of people to join him. He's certainly got the money for it.

Meanwhile the Tribe is native to the planet. They want to rebuild. Their goal isn't to leave. It is to become strong enough to fight off the death machines from the sky. Leaving in a ship and fleeing to some other, safer, world would be a total loss for them. Plus it's hard to really imagine them going from the stone age to building a space ship anyway. lol

That said depending on whether you consider this a "crash landing simulator" or a "colony simulator" you are going to expect the game's development to go in entirely different directions.

If the end game is to having a safe, prosperous, self sustaining, colony then you expect to be able to eventually defeat the environmental dangers and start building nicer stuff. You are managing a colony with complex relationships and seeing how big you can grow, how prosperous you can be.

Likewise if the game's end goal is to escape this horrible planet then you expect ever mounting levels of danger until you either get away, or die trying. You don't expect to ever defeat the planet. If you could then leaving wouldn't be a real priority, and the end game would be boring after all the danger was gone.

The two "goals" contradict each other and I'm really afraid when I hear veteran players say something doesn't fit the "core game" that they really mean it doesn't fit into that oddball crash landing scenario. That is why I think it should be removed from the game to avoid confusion. It simply doesn't fit anymore.

I like this idea.

Removes the survival feel, but understandable for people who just want to sit back. I often see colonists that have the best skills I could ever ask for but then they're ridden with chronic diseases and can barely walk.

The problem here is that we aren't crash landing, that is just one scenario ... and for a scenario certain options can/should be disabled. However my rich explorer should be someone who I'm really attached to. Similarly my primitive tribe should be people who actually represent the "tribe" I'm trying to rebuild . . . not just random characters. Perhaps a point value system should be used for balance but . . . being able to custom place friends, family, or whoever into the game is pretty much needed.

PS - If the "crash landing" scenario is getting in the way of development . . . and a lot of people can't seem to get beyond it . . . then maybe it needs to be removed and replaced with a third scenario that fits in better with the other two? It's really the odd duck right now.

I actually would enjoy having NPC settlements be a possibility. Crash landing on the same square that a pirate base exists would be difficult, but landing near a friendly tribe or outlander town would open up trading possibilities. We can choose our landing spot so nobody would be forced to play in an NPC zone.

Also . . . it would be nice if the location of NPC towns played a role both in how often their people show up, and what direction(s) they tend to approach from. If I settle one square west of a pirate base then I should get common raids coming from the eastern side of the map. It could be the northeast, or southeast . . . but geography should tell me where the threat lies.

Meanwhile if I'm far away from all settlements I should expect to seldom see traders and raiders rarely which would make growing my colony more difficult. Large dangerous wild animals also might be more common away from human settlement.

I like this suggestion . . . there is so much that needs researching early on that being able to plant both devil strand or hops and have them stored away for later sounds like a great solution.

5X5 comes up as average. But I agree there should be a smoother scaling.

I'm gonna balance this in next build.

For now though - let it be brutal!

I like the brutality of it right now. I think it's realistic that getting attacked by brutal pirates and seeing your friends and lovers die painful deaths would send colonists reeling, especially if it's the first time. All I'd like to see is a limit on how fast a pawn can soft break (I've had pawns get into "poor mood" for less than a few seconds and then wander around in a daze for a day and a half because of it. My favorite was when one of my pawns died of an extreme infection because he had a soft mental break and then resisted arrest so I couldn't treat him in time. Reason? "In a little pain..."

Alternatively, perhaps a Dwarf Fortress-esque "Doesn't really care about anything anymore" buff could be added to colonists that have been hit with tragedy on that scale a number of times.

It's not realistic .  . . I've been through a lot and I've got the PTSD to prove it. Both of my parents also had mental breaks. I won't get into the reasons I just want to establish my credentials in this discussion. That said there are a number of things wrong with this system.

First the colonists "break" too dramatically to begin with and often over things that they could fix. It would be more realistic if they stopped responding to commands and priorities and just started trying to fix the problem . . . even if they lack skill and actually make things worse.

Yes we know more is bothering them than just that . . . but it's that moment of getting fed up with life, pin pointing one problem, and trying to do something about it that happens FIRST . . . probably a couple of times . . . before a real break. A colonist who has a minor melt down because the space is dirty with blood and/or filth should stop planting the harvest and insist on cleaning regardless of what he/she is assigned to do, or what I try to make a priority. Similarly someone who currently breaks with a statement talking about the ugly environment might start by placing down a blueprint for a flower pot even if it is made of my precious steel.

These small breaks are warning signs that the stress of day to day life is getting to you. Perhaps you are joy starved and just start playing chess, or cloud watching, or whatever and won't stop for a while. It's not "OK", but the person is trying to take control and fix something. A person nearing starvation might try to hunt or gather wild foods.

Wandering around in a daze does happen after a really violent or traumatic event, and then it's gone. It doesn't last. Similarly getting irritable and starting a social fight/argument might reduce the stress for some colonists at the expense of injury and negative social values. I'll be honest I've done all three of those at different times depending on the circumstances.

Eventually after a number of smaller breaks you become more sensitive to certain stressers . . . perhaps you become a neat freak, or you become jealous/greedy and start insisting on better surroundings for at least your space. You start going down hill way before you break. But the "problem" traits are actual reactions to what has been happening to you. You are trying to protect yourself.

Right now the system is both too fast paced, and too temporary. A person might go berserk for a very minor reason, be subdued, and as you are cleaning up the blood and filth THAT might trigger them again . . . but if you do fix the problems and remove the stress there is no permanent damage. None.

The colonists could have repeatedly killed friends and family in berserk rages, resorted to cannibalism, nearly starved . . . but if you manage to get a few people able to sort thing out eventually the survivors wind up perfectly well adjusted citizens once more.

That is the problem with the current system.  it penalizes you too much up front . . . but in the end it is also is too lenient.  If it was more realistic the system would actually be MORE brutal over long periods of time but MUCH gentler for new colonists. Give me meltdowns, complaints, social fights, arguments, grudges, factions . . . give me mental disorders that grow over time if I screw up. The story needs to be more dynamic.

If I screw up I shouldn't just be able to forget it and say "well we're good now", instead I should need to be ever more careful not to let those old problems rise up again because certain colonists have been traumatized and will react badly.

If my melee 15 fighter who went berserk in the last fight then maybe I need to retire him from combat duties or risk having him take down the entire colony one day. It sucks but . . . he didn't get there after one fight, or even after losing just one friend, or being injured just once . . . he's got a real disorder that isn't going away and I shouldn't put him in that situation unless I REALLY need to. If I ignore that things should get worse over time.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

I'm gonna balance this in next build.

For now though - let it be brutal!

Good to know these are considered unbalanced in the current release . . . In the meantime I'll keep practicing figuring out how to handle/avoid them.

I know. Like I said it's a good thing I was paranoid and started to build right away.

The alternative was actually really close . . . DON'T start building right away and instead haul all my goods into the ruin on day one and let my people sleep on the ground. I could always patch the two holes in that building with a granite door and wall later.

That actually would have been smart, but mean . . . I was very tempted. The only reason I didn't do it was because I had two night owls and a lazy person. I role played them insisting on a wooden wall and some beds first because it was the party colony.

Given a slightly different group it would have been:
One person hauling to a stockpile zone.
One person planting in a grow zone.
One person deconstructing walls so I'd have stronger defenses for that first raid.

And then . . . when I finally hit that build key on day two or three . . . BOOM . . . as you say it would automatically pop up and a colony that was on the path to min/max success would suddenly be in shambles. All that effort would have been wasted.

Suddenly I'd be rushing to build a room as my already degrading stores need to be under cover ASAP . . . Plus I'm rushing to deconstruct that granite building and throw it back up nearby . . . probably while throwing wooden beds outside as I would have already had crops growing and the other ruins were a ways away.

Complete disaster. My own fault . . . perhaps . . . but something that could have been avoided. In the future I'll always hit the build key every time BEFORE I lay out a stock pile near the edge of the map . . . even if I don't plan to build anything. But it would be nice not to have to do that.

I just started a new colony on a huge map and there was this great granite building nearby with nice resources. It was about eight tiles from the edge of the map . . . and normally it would be just inside the border of where you can build so I quickly outlined a stockpile and was really excited . . . until I went to place a door . . .

On the larger map size the edge seems to get bigger too . . . Turns out only ONE square of "my" building was inside the border. I could put a stockpile there, I could walk there, I could deconstruct the building . . . but as a starting shelter it was worthless.

Obviously this didn't ruin my game . . . I just wasn't FUN. So to prevent this . . . give me a map mode that shows the build borders; something I can turn on and off the same way I turn on and off room stats, or beauty. When we first land it should be on by default so when you pause the game and scan the map you plan around build able area.

The only reason I didn't have a complete tragedy here is because I'm paranoid. I tried to place at least a wooden door and some walls right away. I'd already found another granite wall and marked it for deconstruction. But I thought tearing down the wooden stuff was worth getting some miner first night bonus'.

If I'd been a bit meaner to my settlers, and more patient, then things would have gotten bad quick. I would have been soooo upset with myself, the game, whatever. ROFL. Thankfully instead we get quick suggestion thrown out onto the forum.

Sounds good. I've no idea what Tynan is planning but as of A14 leaving the planet no longer makes sense as any kind of goal. If anything fleeing the planet makes the most sense as a LOSING scenario . . . Your lost tribe failed to establish a thriving colony that could defeat the blood machines from the stars and instead flees to a new world? Your lone explorer not only finds nothing interesting, but his outpost/colony fails and he flees to search out wealth elsewhere?

The only place where escaping the planet is a "win" is the initial crash landing scenario. It also sort of is a win in random scenarios where the planet will be destroyed in X days. Otherwise it isn't just a waste of time . . . it's what you do when you give up on actually winning/playing the game.

Something else that really feels like a win has to be in the plans . . . I respect this developer too much to think he just added in new scenarios without thinking about what the new "win" condition for those colonies would be . . .

Whether it is founding a thriving colony, or excavating out a huge ruin as the explorer, or maybe even going down some sort of defensive tech tree and defeating a huge mech invasion with super turrets, fences, and your own robotic troops. I'm sure SOMETHING other than fleeing in complete DEFEAT is in the works.

I'd display them as actual container items and show a list of contents with numbers when you mouse over them; I don't have a pile of food in my kitchen I have a pantry with shelves, counters with drawers, and a bunch of cupboards and in addition to my fridge.

If nothing else having containers should add to the beauty level of a room and make it easier to sort out your goods. Right now it is often better to look at the list of items in the top left corner anyway for an accurate list of supplies . . . the colonists will have several partial stacks in a storage area . . . this is especially true with food where people and animals are constantly pulling from full stacks and hauling in new food just to set them in their very own square.

It is also pretty much mandatory for things you have a huge number of . . . when I have several hundred steel covering the floor in huge piles I'd almost always rather look at the list for "steel" rather than try to zoom in and do a manual count. Especially if I have several projects I want to do and I need to see if I have enough to set up and complete them all without trading or mining.

The only time the numbers on the ground option comes out on top for me is when I'm first setting out. It's nice to be able to scour the ground around the crash site making the biggest stacks available first so my colonist brings in the stack of 65 wood before the stack of ten, and (of course) manually forcing him to grab the stack of ten food that animals might eat before the stack of five food, or any of the wood/steel.

It makes sense that cast always are tossing things into a rough storage shelter . . . it even makes sense that the rich explorer is stashing his gear (initially) in a shed of some sort . . . but if you're establishing a thriving colony, or re-establishing a village that intends to stay on this planet FOREVER and defend against the death machines . . . well then it seems really odd that you'd spend much time without building chests, drawers, shelves, etc . . .

Colonists in a thriving settlement should be DEMANDING better organization for the bonus it gives to cleanliness and beauty if nothing else.

I also wouldn't blame Tynan if eventually he had piles of rice, potatoes, etc . . . that are left on the ground somewhere get infested with rats, bugs, or other vermin . . . refrigeration or using a modern screw silo would reduce or eliminate such events, as might using chests, and relying on pemmican, jerky, biscuits, pickles, and other preserved food stocks.

It seems like the ability to research and build better defensive structures is really needed. This is especially true for the tribal types who are trying to re-establish their village in a way that can defend against the devil machines from the stars. After almost being wiped out once you'd think defense and long term security would be their TOP priority.

Here is a short list of ideas I think could be easily implemented:

• Replace sand bags (which somehow take steel?) with fences of different sizes that can be climbed over or broken down. Some fences can be shot over if you build tall defensive turrets, or if the wall is short enough for people to shoot over them. Fences can be made of different materials and the cost depends on how tall the wall is. They show up as a skinnier "wall" and the different heights are shown if you mouse over them.
• Add a "patrol" job and let us set up patrol areas where "guards" and trained animals can keep a watch out for hostiles.
• Add in blowguns and poison darts made from local plants to help primitive tribes fight effectively against people with grenades? Some darts could immediately cause short term paralysis allowing tribesmen to take out and capture humanoid pawns with superior technology. It should cost a lot for regular colonists to research this.
• Rope snares set in trees to try to capture raiding pirates.
• Throwing nets and bolos as weapons for the same purpose.
• Colonists should be able to research smarter, more effective, and longer range turrets over time.
• Potentially robotic patrol units to help keep your colonists away from the front lines.

We have to remember that it's no longer three guys crash landed on a planet. You could be a tribe trying to build up your village with no intent to ever leave the planet. You could be a rich explorer with your own starship in orbit looking for adventure and maybe to found his own settlement. You could even make up your own scenario.

The pre-release alphas basically followed the plot line of Swiss family robonson:

1. The family crashed, they gather materials, make a raft (escape pod) and reach shore
2. They set up sleeping spots at Tentholm and get their supplies under cover
3. They explore and set up Tree home
4 The rainy season comes . . . several colonists almost break so they dig out cave home in the salt caves for winter
5 Roberta shows up fleeing the pirates they rescue her and fight off her immediate attackers
6 You have drama between ernst and fritz as they compete to start a romance with roberta
7 They set up defenses and fight off a large scale pirate raid
8 They gain access to a "ship" when they rescue Roberta's captain father and are able to leave the island.

At the end most of the family decides to stay. The captain mentions that more people will be coming and this will be a "REAL COLONY NOW" and there is talk about father entering politics and maybe getting elected governor.

This isn't being billed as the Swiss family Robinson simulator anymore . . . you get to set your own goals including founding a permanent colony either as a tribe or as a group of colonists. Sure you can still play through the prelude . . . or you can start out with a bunch of good people, some decent supplies and pick a spot you want to build.

The front page even bills it as a "Colony simulator by Tynan Sylvester" . . . so that's the direction I figure the game is going. The back story you choose is incidental and if your colony "fails" you can try to flee off world but . . . that's suddenly just one option... call it losing with dignity.

You could make a new area so it encompasses only the room(s) you want to build first (or make an area that encompasses the build zone with low priority and then click on the invert button so you have the rest of the map in the allowed area) and then expand or clear allowed area accordingly (and then assign people or just builders to that specific area).

This works. I honestly didn't plan to hijack ComradeYevad's thread though. His idea about priority zones is already in the game for stock piles and it would be really easy to set up for crops and other things.

The reason construction immediately came to mind is because the "planning" tool is really limited right now. It's great for planning a layout and counting things out so your base is symmetrical but its little squares don't really let you set up construction order . . . they don't even let you mark doors, or lay out furniture and crafting stations that need to be built.

Being able to highlight a set of walls and say "do this first if you are going to build" and then highlight a zone over the door and say "do as second priority after that is done" and then being able to highlight the contents of the room and say "Build this stuff last" would be really useful.

Suddenly everything is clearly marked out on my screen and the zones tell my workers where my priorities lay. The beauty of it is that it lets me automate my task list and since the option is already in the game it probably wouldn't take much coding.

ComradeYevad's crop area list is the same elegant thing. I'm pretty sure the same idea could be applied to all sorts of tasks. You set up an area, give it a priority, and tasks within that area get first pick. If a pawn wants to farm I can tell him to check the potato field first. If he wants to haul I can let him know that those distant iron bits (or the expiring foods) are more important than that nearby lumber pile.

It's simply elegant and I have to give the OP a huge thumbs up for coming up with such a simple and versatile solution.