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Messages - slamo

#1
Quote from: Alenerel on January 25, 2017, 02:20:42 PM

Why warmup? That value only counts for the first shot after moving. If the pawn is static he doesnt need to warmup, just cooldown.

Warm-up is the same as aiming time and applies to every shot. The white decreasing cone is the visual of the warm-up counter.

Cool-down is the time after a shot before the colonist can do any other action (another shot or move). Cooldown is what keeps your grenade throwers so vulnerable after a toss.
#2
Quote from: Alenerel on January 23, 2017, 10:34:10 PM
I thought you were using only the dps over range, which would make no sense because it would be just one value... So I had a brain fart.

So then you used the accuracy*dps in each distance?

About extracting the values from the game, dev mode and check every weapon xD

Sorry about your fart! Yes, it's accuracy*damage/time over range. Damage is max damage (if 100% hit rate), divided by time (warmup+(burstcount*bursttime)+cooldown) gives max DPS, accuracy is the interpolated accuracy at the given range.

Technically I guess I could have called it DPS by Accuracy at each Range.

If YOU want to extract all that data go ahead and then send it to me. Too much work for me, I'm lazy. =)

#3
Accuracy over Range Chart:

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
#4
Quote from: Alenerel on January 23, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
About the values, AFAIK the wiki was outdated in A16, which changed a lot of things, mostly ALL of the dps. You should get your data from the game.

Got a method of extracting the data from the game in tabular form? I don't have a clue.

Or update the Wiki. My Google Sheet automatically updates when the wiki does.
#5
I used FORECAST() for the accuracy interpolation between S-M-L. It's a straight line interpolation.

I can do a separate chart for accuracy instead of DPS. I wouldn't find that as useful but maybe other people will.

Raw DPS is plenty useful in certain circumstances.

I currently don't use killboxes but do use a "fire and retreat" method of taking out raids. If I want to know what the optimal weapon for popping out of a door, firing off a burst at range 12, and retreating, then the DPS is what I want.

Similarly if I want to know how a Survival Rifle performs at range 35 compared to a Sniper Rifle then this chart is useful. Same with answering the question of who would win in a range 25 firefight, Sniper Rifle or Assault Rifle? DPS at Range helps to answer that.
#6
Quote from: b0rsuk on January 23, 2017, 01:24:14 PM
How did you calculate DPS of burst weapons ? It's a simple matter with single shot weapons, but with burst weapon you can't just add warmup and cooldown times, you also need time between shots.

I added the burst time — once per burst count.

Burst time doesn't appear to between shots it appears to be at the end of shots.
#7
If a turret is behind deep water and there's no path to it, raiders will not fire at it, even if it's only a couple of tiles away. Especially if the attackers are sappers the turret just fires away while the raiders mill around and die.


Shooting any member of a sapper raid causes everyone in the raid to stop digging and mill around aimlessly.


Decoy doors.

Place a bunch of doors randomly around the map. When raiders come they will scatter to attack doors randomly. A big raider group will break up into small groups and individuals that can be easily dispatched.

Mod edit (Calahan) @ slamo - I have merged your three posts into one to avoid you infringing upon forum rule #10. Please can you edit your existing post in the future rather than creating multiple successive posts. Thank you.
#8
Quote from: Thyme on January 23, 2017, 02:39:13 AM
I'm not sure if weapon accuracy really caps at 100%. In A15, the hitrate tooltip got weird with excellent sniper rifles and decent skilled colonists. Some effects weren't shown anymore, I think only shooter, but I didn't pay that much attention at this point of the game.

Huh. The weapons' info screen shows the accuracy is capped at 100%. But the hit tooltip only displays weapon accuracy when the number is under 100%. Otherwise weapon accuracy just disappears from the tooltip (and maybe from the calculation), but the effective cap still seems to be 100%.
#9
Here's Accuracy as a function of Quality vs Weapon Health for a Pistol at range 15.

Rule of Thumb: on average it takes 25 points of damage to a weapon to drop its accuracy by one quality level (a 0.9 accuracy multiplier).

But this is just an average; the actual quality levels are not equal steps. From Normal to Good and Good to Superior is only half the average quality jump; and from Excellent to Masterwork and Masterwork to Legendary is 1.5x the average quality jump.

So actual damage needed to reduce one quality level:

  • Shoddy -25 pts = Awful
  • Poor -32.5 pts = Shoddy
  • Normal -17.5 pts = Poor
  • Good -12.5 pts = Normal
  • Superior -12.5 pts = Good
  • Excellent -25 pts = Superior
  • Masterwork -37.5 pts = Excellent
  • Legendary -37.5 pts = Masterwork
However, the maximum accuracy is 100%, so weapons that have high accuracy (Sniper Rifle at Medium and longer) quickly max out when quality goes up.  That means at range 15 there's no difference between an Excellent, Masterwork, or Legendary Sniper Rifle — they are all 100% accurate when at full health. But the Legendary Sniper Rifle could take an astounding 50 pts of damage before its accuracy begins to decline below 100%.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
#10
Anything regarding weapon health effects on weapons? I don't have the time to try to decipher it from in-game tests.

EDIT: found it. 100 points of damage multiplies accuracy time .6, so 25 pts of damage multiplies accuracy by .9.
#11
If someone can post the formula for quality and hitpoint effects on weapon accuracy, I can chart a grid of DPS by quality and hitpoints at, say, range 15 for select weapons.

I'm gonna guess that every 10%-15% of health damage roughly equates one quality level but I could easily be wrong.

Quote from: Thyme on January 22, 2017, 10:31:53 AM
Quote from: slamo on January 21, 2017, 05:13:44 PM
But overall it performs exactly like a survival rifle over time. 
nope x)

Yep, as far as DPS is concerned, but nope as far as removing limbs is concerned. Is that more accurate?
#12
Sadly it's a limit of Google Sheets that I can't attach labels to the lines.

The other suggestions were great, I updated the chart as best I could.

#13
Quote from: Thyme on January 22, 2017, 02:01:07 AM
@slamo: Might want to change your last sentence. The charge lance has insane damage per hit, like the sniper rifle ;)

That's what I said; the charge lance packs enough punch to take off a limb or make a one-shot kill.  :)

But because of the low fire rate the CL delivers close to the same DPS as the survival rifle. CL can deliver 27 damage every 4.8 seconds. SR can deliver 18 damage every 3.2 seconds. Once accuracy is factored in they both deliver about 5±0.2 damage per second at ranges 25-37.

There might be tactical reasons to prefer one over the other in various circumstances, but DPS performance is basically the same.
#14
My canines seem to ignore zone restrictions when seeking beers. I could be wrong though.
#15
Some other interesting take-aways:

The pump shotgun, assault rifle, and LMG are all essentially the same performance except for differences in range.

The survival rifle and sniper rifle are essentially the same performance except for range.

Tribal weapons are all crap.

An improvised turret gun is essentially a machine pistol on a stick and generally suck at targets unless they are under 10 range.

The heavy machine gun is a surprisingly good short range weapon when under 15 range.

The charge rifle is pretty awesome across its entire range.

There's no point in picking an assault rifle over a charge rifle unless you need to outrange an enemy.

The charge lance looks wimpy on this chart because of its really low fire rate. But when it finally does fire it can take off a limb or single-shot kill a colonist. But overall it performs exactly like a survival rifle over time.