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Don't think it has.  Any connected component seems to short in rain unless I am missing one (doors excluded?) but the extreme deserts can be a no rain situation, at least no rain for years in my check of one.

Did you know you can put hydroponic tables outside if all you want is soil ? That's useful in the desert.

Is almost like easy mode in the deserts ^.^

Ha ha!  I am not the only one bothered by the lifespan of bones.  In the wilds, animals quickly pull them apart and they disappear fairly fast.  One toxic fallout and I find myself putting the crematorium on full time anti capybara bones duty!

The only advice I have is to not give a master order to animals bonded to combatants.  Else, my main animal trainer I do not have be front line.  Result is my one main character holds back out of line of fire with their assigned animals and give them the release command if needed

Hrm... Never thought about relocating the stonecutter and stockpile in general.  Been more than one situation where that would save backtracking

Tools in butchers room.... If like me, it is set up just outside the animal freezer... Or right inside, depending on layout.  Time is time.  That one butcher equal longer can be one more stack of blocks or one more second of joy.  It all adds up.  And it is significant with a 12% for two.  Ten butchers or one sword, it is still time saved.  As for why it helps, bigger tools for more gorey cutting!

A very recommended time saver is set up critical stockpiles for key materials at larger build sites for the materials needed.  Get those non builders hauling full stacks on over and leave your fast builders to focus on that.

Aaah!  Saw the .png attached, but not the other attachment.
Thankies.

It is very much playstyle.  Unless I am reading wrong, doesnt the haygrass yield 50% more when planted in ground over rice and even corn is still relatively quite a bit lower?  10% between grass and corn?  That can be fairly significant to food and goods production.  I have one colony where I make hay/human kibble and that is very effective at sustaining my worg pack.  I guess it is situational as well.  I very rarely find that food enters the market from my colonies.  If I start getting too much surplus, I turn up the production of lavish meals and sell them

Oh, and crop rotations.  If I find I am getting real high in one area, I tend to switch to healroot, cotton, or devilstrand and up that production.  All the rice you want wont match the niceness of having a production line of fine devilstrand apparel.

Geothermal heated growing zones on ice sheets... VITAL!

How about one that was both tragically sad and ridiculously hilarious?  I had my colony up to 10 colonists or so, certainly not the largest but not new nor fledgeling when a swarm of maddened squirrels entered the map.  I don't know how many there were, but it was several dozen, badly outnumbering my colonists ... in this old version of RimWorld they would beat down doors.  Every last colonist fell before them ... I'd survived raiders, tribals, even a mech raid ... but my colonists were completely helpess against a horde of man-exterminating squirrels!

From the painbrushes thread

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=13372.msg220592#msg220592

Believe so, I remember watching vids of people trying to use the bait shields to attract attention of mechanoids and then getting nuked by inferno cannons.  I could be wrong however.  That said, Tribal raids ^.^

@milion

1) was just me justifying as to Raspberry and Agave being superior in every way to other crops and not farmable is all ^.^  If it was "farmed" then the yields in a crop situation would be reflectively lower :p

Perhaps I am not seeing the rice vs haygrass as you are seeing it.  I see it in terms of the complete package, rice being more of a do-all by feed for colonists and livestock.  Functionally though is where haygrass' advantage seems to really lie.  The more livestock, the more it kinda shows.  Get into something with limited growing season and larger animals, haygrass kind of shows more i thinks.  Hrm.... need to dig into the numbers more to see how it grows.  Sowing labour, etc?  Darn, no time to really dig in and find the code values.

The most difficult part of boomrats is containment.  They can chain react if a bad situation.  But the other side of it is that you can set up some insane ambushes.  The part to consider is boomats are like homing missiles supported by your colonists fire.  Their main advantage during a raid is early immobilization of blitzing melee fighters.  Assign a few to your colonists and let loose on a raid.  catch a clumped group of tribesmen as they run towards your base, it can really make a huge difference.

So end result is we actually are arguing the same points.  For me, I am trying to justify within current mechanics and skills reflecting the logistics side of thing while your end skill is the application of the tool ^.^  Reason I was viewing it from that perspective is simply to give bows some values.  It doesn't take long to loot firearms and they don't degrade, so aside from the first few months, bows lose value quick.

In terms of bow quality, the issue with them, depending on the map is material availability and colonist availability.  Early game, finite time and depending on map, material to craft the bows.  So equip less than normal just to equip them.

Perhaps what is maybe needed is degredation of weapons during use reflective of skill.  The accuracy part is already in the weapons statistics.  So skills equal, the firearm exceeds.  But if firearms in the hand of the novice degrade faster with use, well that makes it more interesting. 

Do you use that valuable pistol for hunting or keep pumping out bows?  At higher skills, they fire less, and degrade much slower meaning that giving Jeb that excellent sniper rifle isn't a waste.  Where as if you give it to one armed, no thumbed Lucky who is missing an eye and never used a weapon before to go hunting, it probably won't last the season.

Now the value in bows is their manufacturability.  Low skilled people can consume them, and if you have a wood production, an infinitely renewable source of quality weaponry?  That would be much more reflective of a survival standpoint than skill lockout!

I peek and see about weaponry, range and muzzle velocities... ooohhh...

There is another part to mass and rounds.  While gravity is constant for the arc trajectory of a round, we must consider drag.  So if you have two rounds with similar drag forces, the heavier one takes more time to decelerate a specific velocity.  So in terms of velocity, you are more accurate because it is spending less time affected by gravity.  Longer range though depends on what range you are talking. 

Without the math is tough to say for 100% the point in which velocities would cross, or even if they would before you reach a point where the lighter shell decelerates to be slower than the heavy shell.  Plus aimability.  If the velocity differences are enough, then the lighter shell will go further if fired at a trajectory for maximum range vs the heavy one.  The lighter just having a more asymetric arc.

Mmm.... physics...

None of it went over my head.

The difference is you are viewing real-world into rimworld.  Have you watched your colonists shoot?  Give them a shoddy bow and they can spend a day hunting without killing a rabbit, easily.  Even high skill have trouble.  A maxed skilled crafter can pop out some decent ones though.

You are continuing to example on yourself, a skilled bowman.  You have the skills to use a bow and trained on it.  You are also viewing things as competition grade.  Lets see the precision of you were making them out of rocks and twigs sitting in a cave in the desert.  Get it made and maintain them for a couple years.  Now do the same sitting in a cave for a couple years and firing it hundreds of times.  Need re-stringing and new arrows, probably replace the limbs.  Now fire that gun a few hundred times.  Okay, time to make new rounds oil and clean it.  Oh wait... you got none of that stuff and don't know how to disassemble and reassemble a firearm?

Your own post said it "Without ____ they will suck"  Well, the shoddy bows do suck in rimworld.  And the people using them suck.  So in context of the original thread, guys with no skill and know nothing about weapons can pick up a bow and at least suck with them.  As long as they keep the feather pointing out, they can usually fire it.  They just suck with it.  Any firearm still takes a basic understanding.

It is all comparatives.  Bows are inferior to the firearms in rimworld.  Hence having the minimum skill representive of the minimum skill to use them.  People with no skill suck and give them a crappy degraded bow and it is going to be even worse. 

I can want competition accurate all I want if I crashed on some remote planet.  But it isn't going to happen.  If I don't have longterm maintenance training and experience on even a basic firearm, it is just a matter of time til it jams no matter how well I think I am looking after it.  A person that doesn't know anything about weapons?  Give it a week til it stops or jams cause they loaded incorrectly.  A bow?  Well with just basic tools I can probably craft a bow and arrow for myself and jimmy.  We could fire fifty arrows hoping to take down some silly squirrel, but is something doable.

If rimworld bows were military grade with professional life trained archers, they might be able to hit something.

EDIT:  I know firearms more than bows, and am friends with a guy who is olympics grade of professional archery.  A late uncle bow hunted bears.  Please don't misunderstand or think I am downplaying what bowmanship takes.  He has trained for decades to be as accurate with a top tier bow as accurate as I am with a standard .22 rifle at long ranges.  Now take the cost of his bow vs a standard hunting rifle.  Toss in investment cost for one arrow vs a box of rounds, and well..

That is what I am kinda getting at.  As you progress up the skill tree, firearms should be far superior to bows, and they are in rimworld.  I am only refering to the topic of the thread.  The bottom end, no nothing skills.  Without any skills at all, a firearm is going to be more difficult.  Not worse, just more difficult.  If Colonist A knows how to load and fire that gun well it will be better than that bow.  Just takes some more basic training and is less something you can pick up and make it work. 

That shoddy bow might be useless, but you show em the correct way to nock and draw, they at least can figure it out enough to make due.

I guess it is trying to apply a smooth learning progression to two sets of equipment with highly different learning curves is the issue.  Firearms are steep basic, but once that is down is fairly smooth.  Bows don't start as steep, but they stay steep in learning all the way to top tier.  With both, the tops being in completely different places.

Some nice work, but there is much accounted for in the balance that was kind of overlooked in the discussion.  I started writing this to talk about the perceived imbalances, especially with haygrass, but rambled a bit more.

1.  This was addressed, but wild foods vs agricultural, the nutritional values side is not uncommon.  Most wild food products far exceed the farmed version per unit of measurement in terms of nutritional value.  If you started mass farming agave for example, they would compete for resources.  So you either are inefficient per square land area, or you are dropping the value of agave.  Same with the raspberries vs strawberries.

Growing strawberries myself, if you get the plants too dense, their productivity can drop significantly.  If you use fertilizers and other means to up their production, then the quality tends to drop.  Try garden strawberries vs the flavourless grocery store ones, you will know what I mean.  Difference is, you can grow strawberries in much larger quantities and hydroponically.  Raspberry bushes can take several years to reach a usable size to get food.

2.  Haygrass is useless?  Nopers.  You are viewing from an ideal world, essentially potentially easy mode.  In any play I have done, rich soil is very limited and usually reserved for vital food growing crops.  With long summers, corn.  With short summers potatoes.  To be addressed in 3.  Haygrass is and should never be grown on here.  So exclude using the ideal land, now nutritionally is much higher.

Grow them on the normal or poor soil.  It is easy to allocate a section of land to growing hay and have your animals go out there to feed.  They eat some hay as it grows, the surplus stockpiled and stored without need for refridgeration.  No degredation and lasts for a long time.  Stacks high.

More importantly, is it is efficient.  It was addressed meals are better.  So minimum meal of ten food items.  Check all that a chicken needs.  Like two hay.  So you feed them meals and your waste is over 5x  This continues for the other animals as well.  Make hay/meat for your cats/dogs/etc and that efficency goes up.  Get desparate and use hay/human meat kibble?  Effective return goes through the roof.

3.  Growing times is something very important to consider.  You addressed it in the growdays chart quite well.  But overall, need to balance the grow days to nutrition side.  I call it starving slowly.  Sure you get a quick feed, but it runs out faster.  You slowly starve.  So a mix is needed at start.  Some to get that initial suppliment while another plot grows a hearty meal.  While nominally corn is always better than potatoes, that is only if you have ideal growing seasons.  Potatoes are more rugged and survivable.  They can grow sooner, later, handle the heat better and are faster.  While corn may ideally be tops, if you are getting two potato crops for every one corn crop?  Well your yearly productivity with corn is nil.

It gets even more risky and this is something that anybody who has played on extreme bios knows.  Losing crops to a solar flare.  Bam.  Doesn't matter your passive power, or any of it.  Corn is putting all your eggs in one basket.  You are at 70% corn, and a flare happens that lasts a while.  Room drops below freezing and voila, all your food is dead.  With potatoes, you had one harvest in that period of time, and is half as long to get recovered.  Corn is very nice, but it is also all or nothing.  Oh, hello blight!

4.  Hydroponics.  To hydroponics feed with rice is optimal.  It is like a stream of food.  But if you are running livestock, you are also having to look at what you need to get one sunlamp of hydroponics running.  Each lamp is usually a windmill and three solars average in my builds.  Or abouts two per geothermal.  This is estimates.  It is good if you got the resources, but is also something that is later game focus. 

So that is part of the consideration.  You will up your colony wealth considerably plus invest significant levels of materials and components.  Haygrass on the other hand is something you just plug and forget for feeding.  I usually grow the stuff in my entry fortifications.  Animals sleep in barn, go out for sun.  If attacked, change their zones to stay in barn.  Aside from the planting which goes quick, is else zero investment.

I do quite like the food side of things in the game.  Chickens and their ability to spew out highly nutritious eggs for minimal hay investment is an excellent way to supplement meal productions!  That is something to add to your charts.  Hayfed hen conversion factors to eggs.  That also is a 20% upgrade (or is it more?) since one egg is 5x a crop.  Is why they only need one for a fine meal.  I don't know what that works out to per day, but colonists even like em raw, similar to berries and corn.


Overall, it is a dangerous way to play to fall into numerical strategies.  What may be numerically best, isn't situationally best.  Especially with a game like rimworld.  The best crops tend to not be the most reliable.