Messages

So now there are only what 3-4 types of Leather? I heard of this change in one of the change logs. But this is my first time really playing since than. I liked how it was before because it was more interesting. I could be like oh this person has Hare Skin pants. This person has Bear Parka etc... Or more so couches and other objects made out of it.

It seems you can still spawn in all the types of leather using Dev Tools or God Mode. But that's not fun etc. And it feels like cheating. Plus enemy spawn won't get it.

Do most of you like this new change? I imagine there are upsides? Is it more balanced in terms of stats? And of course it causes less clutter. Still are there any good mods that sort of revert it to the old way? Even if I a mod did make every animal produce it's own leather. The new vanilla recipes would still not support it right? So the mod would have to change a fair bit I imagine. Is there such a mod? Basically I don't like this new change overall as I feel it kind of dumbs down Rimworld a tiny bit.

You may need to provide what version your using. For example that may help the devs know if it's already fixed etc.

For example if this is your issue.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=46176.0
And your playing B19. Then it's already fixed.
But what version are you playing?

I assumed that any mental break would bypass all the food restrictions. That's the way it should be to avoid things like this. Someone in mental break can't be trusted on what they eat or where they go. Which is why they already ignore forbidden stuff and area restrictions right? So it perhaps should be programed to ignore foot restrictions etc. But I know nothing about the wild man break down. When the break down ends are they still wild men? Or do you have to tame them to end it? Either way yeah this does seem to be an issue in my opinion but probably easily fixed.

Could this effect users in Non-Steam Version? And if so what would be the work around? I'm wondering if I ever had this problem and just thought it was normal lag? Hmmm.... I will keep my eye on this. Thanks.

I'm very happy for you Tynan and all the other Devs. Ison and to be honest I don't know the whole team by name. Thanks for making this game. The only thing I care about are bug patches. So please release at least a couple if not more solid bug fixes over the next little while to several months etc.

I feel Vanilla Rimworld is an amazing game. And we all know the dedicated modders will be around. It's going to be sweet finally playing a final version where mods don't have to be changed rapidly. I'm sure even patches may make some mods need updated. But it will be small updates where the modder only needs to change a few things. So we can finally start to get well patched mods as well. Instead of now where half the work that goes into mods is just to keep them updated with the most recent version of Rimworld.

I wonder if Tynan has plans for another game? But please once again beat the bugs to death before starting a whole new project!

Bringing this back to the fore as it is still a pretty annoying issue. Very immersion breaking at the least that our maps are scattered with the corpses of all but the largest predators within a couple seasons. Agreed that this is a balance issue and may be fixed by allowing smaller predators to have a much stronger first attack (ambush) when hunting, as a cat can be screwed up by either a rat, hare, or other small animal if they don't get the drop on them.

Yeah I'm always thinking of solutions. I don't know what the Devs would want to do. I think your suggestion is very similar to the kind of idea I had. I was thinking that the only real solutions to this are.

1. Re-balance all the animal stats. Have fun with this one as it's very difficult. Animals where likely made stronger to be more viable VS human enemies etc. At least that's what I remember in change log etc. So changing these stats around are like having your cake and eating it too. But still possible.

2. Make it so the Hunting animal is more resistance or more damage dealing VS it's prey. So leave the core stats along and add special stats or buff VS only the type of targets it will hunt.

3. Make it so the hunting animal gets a special ambush attack VS it's prey during a hunt. Stuns the prey target for long enough that by the time the prey starts fighting back it may deal some damage but not enough to kill or bleed out the hunter. Or maybe the Ambush just does increased damage or both more damage and stun effect. (However don't some animals already get like a stun effect? I don't know if that only hurting hunting? Or if it works when fighting human pawns too like during manhunt or berserk. I remember see this at one time? What I am trying to get at is I hope those animals are still original it was cooling that certain animals had special effects. So if they gave all animals a stun during hunting. The ones that already had a stun should have a longer stun. lol )

Note: In either case the Devs may need to play around with that percentage thing that Ison changed. It used to be 85% before and now it's 100%. It makes sense for it to be less than 100% because creatures of exact power don't often hunt each other. But I guess in extreme situations they might. Plus this is not real life so things can be different it's all up the Devs. This is one of those situations where I don't envy the Devs.

Also, is that the actual text of the debuff? I've never seen it worded that way. Or were you just paraphrasing because the name is the name of the pawn's lover?

Overall interesting suggestion and this comment in particular I agree. I never saw that either. I assumed it likely just said the lovers name  or something but hopefully Iamkrlil will fill us in. Good idea about asking him to swap the order that is good troubleshooting. Even if it does fix it I still think it's an issue. But it would narrow down the problem by a lot.

Are they both assigned to the bed? Or is she perhaps only assigned to the bed and he sleeps in it automatically because they are lovers? You can assign two people to the same double bed. I don't know if this matters I'm only asking this in a troubleshooting manner. Regardless of if you are or are not assigning them both officially the Devs may still choose to look into this or not. I'm just wondering. If he is not also assigned to the bed the game may not consider it his room technically.

I would love to see someone use a mod or scenario options or Dev Mode and do a run with more than the max negative traits. I forget if Scenario options can allow you to place more than the regular amount of traits. But I know Dev Mode allows you to do this. So every time you sucessful get a new pawn. Pause the game and add like 5+ Negative traits onto the pawn. Probably the same 5 to keep it simple and try to make it the worst possible mix of 5+ etc. lol

May be a mod that can help with this I don't know. But it would be a fun run.

Nice find Nightmyre. In case it was a Mod issue. I tried to reproduce without any mods to save Devs some time if it was only a mod issue.

I just reproduced this on Steam version 1.0.2041 (64-bit) Unable version.
I was able to queue up multiple tries to Chat with pawn in a row. Easy fix would be to clear the others I guess once an attempt is completed. Defiantly a bug/exploit. May also work with other actions that are supposed to be limited? But I don't know of anything else like that at the top of my head.

Is it possible to make unfinished things take a lot more damage via enemy attack only or something like that? So they quickly move onto other targets? Or is that kind of what ends up happening anyhow as unfinished means lower HP anyhow. Like the unfinished targets are only short term decoys anyhow and by the time the pawn kills them it's already sort of to late? Logically I can see it both a good thing and a bad thing to go after unfinished objects.

Around Sept 16 give or take a day. Ison fixed an issue that has been preventing cats from hunting rats. It also effected other animal having issues hunting. So I can confirm that cats in Steam Unstable will hunt rats, hares, squirrels etc. A lot of other smaller hunting animals should hunt rats too. I don't know if this change is still in effect as I have not played in a week.

See this for information about the bug. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=39279.msg434531#msg434531

Personally I'm not as good at Rimworld. And I don't play in a way to min/max difficulty so I think most players won't be effected by issue. Because it takes a good understanding and playing against the way I like to play to accomplish this. That said. I would love the Devs to flesh out a more detailed difficulty curve if A) The Devs thought it was a good idea. B) It would not ruin the game. C) The players also wanted it.

But yeah a game mode or storyteller that works off of Time > Wealth could be interesting. Maybe early game wealth is most important but as time goes on time replaces wealth for the most part. Or maybe a game that uses MAX Wealth. So it does not use current wealth but the highest wealth your colony has reached.

The problem in my opinion is Rimworld is a product of YEARS of work and balance. It's almost at release and I think some of these suggestions will change the core of how Rimworld works. I personally find Rimworld hard on higher difficulties. So I mainly play on lower difficulties. I could get better but I like Rimworld for what it is. I love watching Lets Players though and I am disappointed if the Lets Player can easily win without trouble because they have learned to abuse game mechanics instead of just having skill. But I still think the game is challenging. And if you have to do things like purposely let your items deteriorate to lower wealth. Than that is META. Most people won't play that way even if they know about it etc.

But my opinion still stands that if the Devs want to tweak stuff or add a mode or story teller that may offer more of a challenge for those who choose to play the game like this etc? I'm all for that. 

[What the circumstances were.]

What the circumstances were.
Version 1.0.2029 on Steam, no mods, new game.  Cat's and potential other animals now hunt again. But often take extreme wounds and die while hunting their prey. They don't often die right away. But they bleed out or take devastating wounds very easily.

I believe this is because the previous bug preventing Cats and other animals from properly hunting has been resolved. Thank you Tynan and Ison for resolving the previous bug that others and myself posted. Here is a link to the bug that was fixed that now causes this new potential bug/balance issue. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=39279.0

What happened.
I tested out the results of Ison's work to resolve the previous bug. And indeed animals where hunting properly in Rimworld. But I noticed a lot of dead animals all of a sudden. And not just the prey. Cats were dying from hunting rats. I have never seen this before in previous versions of Rimworld. What I assume is that after A17 the strength or various stats of animals where changed. I read something about how they may have been buffed to be more viable in combat VS raiding enemies?

This change caused an imbalance of power from Hunter and Prey type animals making them almost the same strength. Since Ison changed the threshold for Hunting prey from 85% to 100% I assume based on his comments? It now revealed another issue. In my opinion this is difficult to resolve. Because the stats of animals where changed to balance other mechanics in the game. And now natural animal hunting is kind of broken. I don't know if this is a bug or perhaps just something Tynan has to decide if it's okay as is. Or maybe even revert the changes that Ison back to 85%. If it's reverted though than cats and other animals won't hunt at all. While this issue potentially effects all hunting animals it is more easily seen in cats because none of the current animals that cats hunt are weak enough not to wound the cat enough that it bleeds out. So most of the balance issue probably effects smaller hunting animals. Even snakes for example are probably going to die a lot while hunting. Here are some statistics from tests I ran in Rimworld current version 1.0.2029 and compared to one test in A17 before all of these issues started.

Test Results
On a new game with no mods I made 100 walled in rooms to spawn animals to fight it out as a test to see the outcomes.

Rimworld Version  [1.0.2029 Steam Unstable]
----------------
Test 01 - Cats VS Rats
In each of the 100 rooms I spawned one cat and one rat.

Cats won 98 out of 100 fights.
53 of these 98 remaining cats died shortly after due to Wounds/Blood loss.
45 cats survived out of 100 after all was said and done.

Conclusion
A cat in Rimworld has about a 45% chance of surviving hunting one of the weakest possible prey one rat.
----------------
Test 02 Cats Vs Squirrel
In each of the 100 rooms I spawned one cat and one Squirrel.

Cats won 100 out of 100 fights.
44 of these 100 remaining cats died shortly after due to Wounds/Blood loss.
56 cats survived out of 100 after all was said and done.

Conclusion
A cat in Rimworld has about a 56% chance of surviving hunting one Squirrel.
----------------
Test 03 Cats Vs Hare
In each of the 100 rooms I spawned one cat and one Hare.

Cats won 100 out of 100 fights.
48 of these 100 remaining cats died shortly after due to Wounds/Blood loss.
52 cats survived out of 100 after all was said and done.

Conclusion
A cat in Rimworld has about a 52% chance of surviving hunting one Hare.

Those are all animals that in A17 and in real life cat's should have almost no trouble hunting. I also tested other animals like Chickens etc... results were about the same around 50% survival rate after bleeding out. This game is not real life though so ultimately at the end of the day it's up to Tynan/Ison to either fix, balance or leave this as is. I'm not complaining really I'm just sharing this information.
----------------
After finishing tests involving cats I decided to try one test with Timber Wolfs.

Test 04 Timber Wolf VS Rat
In each of the 100 rooms I spawned one Timber Wolf and one Rat.

Timber Wolf won 100 out of 100 fights.
3 of these 100 remaining wolfs died shortly after due to Wounds/Blood loss.
97 wolfs survived out of 100.

Conclusion
A Timber Wolf in Rimworld has about a 97% chance of surviving hunting one rat. I don't think this is an issue or needs to be balanced. In A17 rats really did not harm Timber Wolfs at all. But 3% fatality is no problem. I suspect that smaller animals that hunt. Like cats have it much worse
because less options for prey that is weaker than them. But if the thrush hold is 100% instead of 85%. I imagine Timber Wolfs will attempt to hunt prey that will often kill both animals every time.
----------------

Here is the final test done on A17 to compare how Cat's used to do VS Rats.
Rimworld Version  [A17]

Test 01 - Cats VS Rats
In each room I spawned one Cat, and one Rat.

Cats won 100 out of 100 fights.
3 of these 100 remaining cats died shortly after due to Wounds/Blood loss.
97 cats survived out of 100.

Conclusion
In A17 cats had about a 3% chance of dying hunting one Rat.

----------------
What you expected to happen.
Animals don't have about a 50% chance of dying while hunting their prey. Either they won't hunt at all. Or there would be more of a balance like in A17 between Hunter and Prey animals.

Even though most of my tests involved cats. I want to make it clear
that this technically effects any animal that will now hunt prey that is about equal in strength. Smaller
hunting animals are effected MORE because there is less opportunity for prey. The three weakest prey
for cats are like Rats, Hares, Squirrels and each of them is around 50% fatality rate.

Steps we can follow to make the bug appear on our machine.
1. Start new game.
2. Spawn Cats or other animals that are likely to hunt.
3. Spawn Rats or other small animals.
4. Put them in individual combat cells if needed.
5. Let them battle it out and observe that many animals lose their lives hunting any prey.

Thanks!
Good luck I personally have no idea what the solution is. I don't think this is a bug anymore. It's at most a balance concern.

One last comment: With the new ability to replace limbs on animals. As long as you quickly attend to wounded animals that hunt. And replace lost limbs this balance issue is not that big of a deal. It's more an issue with wild animals who hunt other animals because they just bleed out and die without medical aid. I'm still glad the no hunting problem was resolve this is still better than no hunting at all I think.

Thanks Himkey. I won't likely be using this mod until 1.0 is fully released. As still bugs that I dislike in current Rimworld B19 etc. But knowing that this mod is still being updated is great. Thanks for the hard work I appreciate it.