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I would expect that though 

Immagine drawing a growing area focus on every tile of rich soil with some plant. Then you realise that the zone is too big just for one plant and want to separate it into 2 kind of plants. Your only option is to shrink it and drew again  .

Yea this happens to me a lot, but at least we have these shrink/expand options now!

I am playing an animal swarm game and experimenting with how to mix traps and turrets in with my 45 alpacas. My current design is to put a mini-turret in a little bastion. The walls force enemies to bunch up if they want to shoot at it, which makes the turret spray more effective.

The turret is meant to be sacrificed to buy time. It costs 100 steel and 3 components, but the wreckage has 1 component and 3 steel slag chunks, so the net cost isn't so bad. I don't know if the turret ever downs enemies, but the IED traps sure do. I'll probably plant some trees for enemies to hide behind.

How much damage do those IEDs do to your walls and sandbags? I'm trying to use them effectively but they keep not getting triggered because I have no clue to place them, i'm a bit scared about putting them near my walls.

I also want to give some feedback on bugs (the insect kind :p )

This map had a "natural" hive on it at the start, tended by 2 mega spiders and 1 spelopede. (see img)

The nest was in this cave, near that ruin where that big box plan is. On the left is a tunnel I made, digging down (my base is in the top left of the map), for faster travel, with a stone door of course.

Early raids would often go towards that door for whatever reason, even though they easily could run around the mountain, I guess they saw that the door was mine and decided to smash it. They invariably made a detour INTO the bug nest, perhaps because they're "hostile" and they were close? That ended many early raids without me having to fire a single shot; their were more corpses there that have since rotted away.

After a period of time for no reason I can tell, their nest dissipated, and thus so did their jelly, forcing them to prowl for food. I forget how the first megaspider died, later on a mass-melee-tribal raid stabbed the spelopede to death and beat the second mega spider unconscious; it eventually got up, but in an ironic twist starved to death during a toxic fallout: he may be immune, but his food sure wasn't!

It was pretty engaging, as they both protected and scared us. However, as someone else mentioned many of the random encounters that occur in the mountains also feature bug nests, which seem to more often than not be in the top area of the map (that might be my confirmation bias though). Once, my caravan was faced by a single manhunting snow hare... which spawned in the bug nest; it got eviscerated pretty fast and we immediately took off. Someone else mentioned their colonists spawning in such a nest, that would be nasty for sure. It also presents another balance problem: you can still claim the glow pod they seem to usually have, and when you reform the caravan you can take with you the pod and any jelly they have, seems slightly exploitative. So the generation of natural bug nests on caravan-related maps maybe could use some tweaks.

[pirates drop down]

gonna try my hand at full report, apologies if the image posts are suboptimal still figuring this out, this is certainly less cumbersome than Steam links and it bypasses the direct upload size limit:

Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness:  Temperate Forest (40/60) - Mountains (with caves!)
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age: 193 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: a lot, like 26 not sure
Complete mod list: None

I had a very brutal, very suspenseful, and over all most deadly and engaging battle I've ever had.
Living in a mountain I knew bugs would tunnel in eventually, so I sort of prepared: had some stone doors placed in key areas normally held open to function like fire "airlocks", and made sure I had molotovs at the ready.
I got the warning of bugs tunneling in, one of the bedrooms (my overall layout is pretty not-planned, mostly just where ruins were and hallowed out mineral deposits, very asymmetrical and random).

I have everyone except our doctor who can't fight for poop and the guy who was in a psychotic daze armor and arm up: very shortly prior our Social-Chef-Melee Expert returned from a long caravan trip with an AR, Chain Shotgun, and an Archotech arm to replace our "sniper's" prosthetic (she got a hand shot off by a Lancer short time previous).

I guess this was my first mistake: playing it safe, we had our worst shot, wearing no armor so he could stay light, just chuck a molotov the wooden door of the room the bugs were in, as one hive was adjacent. We were just gonna wait for them roast. And roast they did, even as they screamed and tried to tunnel out they didn't breech anywhere or anything, every bug died in that room, eventually.

That hardly would have been a problem, but while the bugs were roasting, not even yet downed, pirates drop down. They came in 3 separate groups across the map, I didn't get an exact total but there were a lot, with multiple chain shotguns, machine pistols, and other nasties; pretty sure most if not all had flak vests too.

My mountain base isn't too well defended, we have a 1-thick slate wall (we only have slate and a little sandstone around here) going around broken only by small hills where we could to save work. They took time to prepare, so we tried to get some food and sleep in but didn't really accomplish much there, while the bugs still burnt. Once they attacked, the full attack squad went out, as the raiders started to punch at different areas along our wall. Took a few potshots that didn't accomplish much, although one guy of theirs did fall to a molotov in a funny fit of running in circles while on fire. Our MVP was our chef-melee expert, with his thrumbo horn (store bought!), good marine armor + normally shield (both gotten from an item stack quest), and a decent advanced helm we built, he rushed out the wall to pick off a few stragglers and only took a few bruises in the process.

I had a few traps placed prior, but they accomplished nothing here: I have some steel deadfalls placed adjacent to some doors, which normally work well against melee gits and big animal, but they didn't get hit here. Worse, I had a few HE IEDs placed. 2 were placed in these ~3wide natural tunnels that form major highways through the area, none of which were tripped despite squads of enemies running through. Another one that was placed adjacent to a mountain in exactly the place someone would seek cover while firing at our door gunners got tripped and exploded off screen, yet the guy took almost no damage, just some shredding to one arm, maybe the armor saved him? The guy was standing over the blueprint, so I don't think he somehow triggered it, ran out of the radius, then back in (he was running away from our power armored mini-thrumbo).

The most brutal aspect of course was this was while the infestation was still being "dealt with". The fire had started to go out of control, adjacent rooms getting air-will-burn-you hot through the smoothed stone walls, soon our hospital was starting to ignite, thankfully we pulled the meds out first but we still lost a masterwork wooden bed and painstopper. Ideally, once the bugs dropped from heat shock we should have rushed in, put the fire out, and finished them off the old fashion way, but we couldn't with the raid going on. Our doc who stayed behind I had running in circles as he's trying to sleep to prop open doors and strip roofs to let the heat out faster, as at this point we pretty much just had to let all the fuel in the bug-room be used up. Once the humans were dealt with, we had as many as we could rush in and put stuff out. got a few minor burns, hopefully nothing gets infected. Our poor guy with the chainshotgun lost a finger to a chainshoty of their own, and then got a eye bashed out as their shotguner charged into melee.

Another thing I've never seen before: the way these raiders dropped in 3 different "squads", each's points seemed to be tracked on it's own, as killing a few would cause that "squad" to flee but the rest kept fighting on.

I'm still kind of torn on the traps: I understand why you wanted them nerfed, and the material cost doesn't bother me so much. It's the fact you can't place them "adjacent", it makes it so unreliable for foes to hit them. placing deadfalls adjacent to doors along the walls still works, as that's the point they would often take cover, run along trying to be clever and avoid fire, or because they're dumb animals that just run in circles against the wall. But I'm really at a loss on how to use the IEDs, maybe I need to build some "fake bunkers" the enemy will see and take coverin and then get blast-O'ed? If anything, I feel the no-adjacent-traps thing actually encourages you to build exploitative tower-defense like tunnels to max their chance of being hit, even if it makes the space-usage less efficient (I'm sure filling in the gaps with sandbags still works wonders), while making just placing a handful at some key doors or corners as I usually would just pure awful. I gotta say though at least being able to uninstall them put them somewhere else is a HUGE boon!







graphs:

Question to every 1.0 player:

Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)

Is this a known problem?

This happens to me.  I have a very nice brand new mouse and high end gaming mousepad to match it.  I've noticed it happens when I'm dragging with the middle mouse button and there is a tiny loading blip.  It seems to happen when a new letter / event / notification are popping or about to pop.  If I'm currently using the middle mouse to drag to a new location when it occurs it will hiccup for the tiniest of micro seconds then shoot my cursor/screen waaaaaaay far away in the direction I was dragging to right after it hits.

Huh, I have this too pretty sure, just figured my mouse is garbage.

(sorry to post bugs here, but I'm not getting any feedback in the actual bug section so I can't tell if they're noticed).

I'm really enjoying the new caravan changes, everything about it really: the info, the depth, the ability to rest and tend and carry and all that jazz on the go. Pretty sure I have a bug here though:
Despite having a double bedroll (ofc I was too slow on the screenshot button, but it does in fact say "resting using 2 bed rolls"), Matt's comfort isn't going up, despite it having that arrow like it is, it has been at 0% for days now. The thing is Izolda's comfort is going up while resting, so she sure is benefiting from it. Also, they are married, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to share the bedroll; it's like the game reports them as both using it but they're not actually doing so.

UPDATE: so a day later, they switched: now Izolda is uncomfortable while Matt has the comfort, still says "using 2 bed rolls".

I've sent out another caravan, this time with 2-single rolls for 2 people: it ends up just having their comfort never go up ever, something seems to be wrong with this caravan comfort (and both are good-quality, so it's not that).

(sorry to post bugs here, but I'm not getting any feedback in the actual bug section so I can't tell if they're noticed).

I'm really enjoying the new caravan changes, everything about it really: the info, the depth, the ability to rest and tend and carry and all that jazz on the go. Pretty sure I have a bug here though:
Despite having a double bedroll (ofc I was too slow on the screenshot button, but it does in fact say "resting using 2 bed rolls"), Matt's comfort isn't going up, despite it having that arrow like it is, it has been at 0% for days now. The thing is Izolda's comfort is going up while resting, so she sure is benefiting from it. Also, they are married, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to share the bedroll; it's like the game reports them as both using it but they're not actually doing so.

UPDATE: so a day later, they switched: now Izolda is uncomfortable while Matt has the comfort, still says "using 2 bed rolls".

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New build!

Of note in this build is the translation cleaner tool. This tool updates translation files and inserts the English data for reference. It'll make translating much, much simpler. Translators, please use it! It's on the main menu when a non-English language is selected.

Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.

Still lots to do!

---

Reduce death-on-downed chance.
Tune up quest rewards slightly.
Adjusted population/storyteller tunings.
Spear rework. Reduces its damage, gave it special armor penetration, recoded how stab damage interacts with internal organs (it no longer specifically targets organs unless you hit some external part that contains those organs). Adjusted mechanoid melee attack tools.
Fix: GrammarRequest.includesBare not cleared in Clear()
If non-English language is selected and GrammarResolver fails to resolve a text, we now try again with English rules.
Mechanoids now have some internal body parts and capacities to go with them.
Refined and condensed social ability-related stats.
Tuned health and coverage of some body parts.
Adjust probability of talk topics.
Scale down stone chunk art to 64 pixels.
Misc adjustments: -Reduced minimum adaptation factor. -Removed imprisoned mood debuff thought. -Rewrite armor rating description to be clearer. -Corpses deteriorate slower. -Overlapped watermill power 50% -> 30%. -Mortar min range now ends in .9 so the circle looks nicer. -Flak jacket now insulates like a cloth jacket. -Adjust prisoner resistance. -Adjust mental break chance per time. -Default auto rearm traps to on. -Rename Char ITab to Story.
Adjust animals' manhunter chances and speed.
Removed unnecessary SelectLanguage() from TranslationFilesCleaner.
Fixed minor translation files cleaner issue.
Enabled the "cleanup translation files" button.
Made NormalizedHandle() use white-listed characters instead of black-listed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now keeps comments in full-list injections.
TranslationFilesCleaner now also handles backstories.
Translation placeholders now use TODO symbol instead of an empty string.
Updated the "cleanup translation files" dialog text.
Fix: No missing def injections are detected if no injections of that def are defined.
TranslationFilesCleaner improvements - it now handles full-list injections correctly. Fixed some translation issues.

Not that I should claim sole credit, especially with the stabbing mechanoid issues, but this is the second time my feedback was almost immediately incorporated, really makes me feel good :3

I'm absolutely going to try out the new spears (well, might have to mine some more plasteel first
I dare say best dev interaction I've ever had!

So I know this has been mentioned before, and kudos to you guys doing the code digging, you're the real MVPs: melee still feels odd to me, still  better than before at least.
So, here are my observations + questions. Also let me know if I'm wrong about anything, with the constantly changing nature of the Unstable it's highly likely something I say either isn't or soon won't be applicable anymore.

• People keep bringing up the fact that Mechanoids get insta-killed by stabbing weapons, and boy does that sound dirty and exploitative. I sure hope this gets fixed, not sure how though. The complex solution would be to just give the mech's more "internals", maybe something like external plating and internal plating, no idea. 


• It appears the melee weapons are getting slightly more fleshed out, like I noticed the last time I checked that knives and swords have a shorter cooldown with a slash than a stab, which is nice. But at the moment I am very confused about the long blades: the Spear has a higher listed dps than the longsword (and is arguably even better than that with the aforementioned stab exploits), and yet still requires less material, work, and skill to make, so what is the longsword meant for? It just feels like an expensive bastard (pun-intended) that's not really better than anything, just a bad jack-of-all-trades


• For those code diggers/makers: how exactly do the melee attacks decided "what attack" to use (i.e. stab, slash, bash, etc.)? A good chunk of the melee seems kind of balanced on that, which is probably a part of why the spear's listed DPS is higher, it has less possible attacks which keeps the average higher. The worst is when a pawn will punch with the offhand while using a melee weapon, like just why? Maybe the chance of that could go down with higher skill or something, or it should just be removed?

I think maybe the melee weapons could be further tweaked into having niches, at least as far as the long blades go: it might be better to have the spear be stronger, but slower, a good choice for "stabbing through armor", while the long sword swings faster in a way it has more or about even dps (this is how it used to work isn't it? It's been awhile since I've played vanilla-stable). The Ikwa feels like a worse gladius as it probably should, but maybe it could be handled in a similar manner: Ikwa is primarily stabbing and thus is better at that, but the gladius has more speed/versatility.

The only other possible balancing factor I can think of is giving the sword-types (gladius + longsword) a bonus to melee dodge chance, to represent them being used to "parry" and whatnot, which is pretty much what the sword was made for after all; if you wanted to hack down a foe with one fell swoop, you'd grab an axe or polearm of some sort.

Also minor request w/ argument: some kind of 2-handed hammer with the "long blades" research (guess you'd have to change the name XD) would be great, and would probably make the balancing easier; a large reason why maces aren't used much is because they're "basic", they're just not at the same tier of a longsword or spear, introducing a smashing weapon that is at that tier could make that dicthonomy of sharp = good against flesh/ blunt = good against armor very clear cut and established; for example I read one player's testimony who said overall longswords were still better against armor than a mace, where maces really shine is when used en masse to keep foes "stun locked", which doesn't exactly seem like you were going for as tweaks keep getting made to make armor more vulnerable to blunts yet still the sword and spear come out on top.

Well that's enough for now, keep up the good work, this unstable truly is a massive improvment!

(snip)

Yea, I have to disagree on some of that. I'm not sure what you mean by "current system" being like fallout 3's. if you mean the base game, yes, you're right. The 1.0 unstable, nah it's a lot more like the first 2, and it is a big improvement overall. Unless I'm misunderstanding you (which I tend to do a lot), it sounds like we both agree though that the current stable's armor system is pretty silly and the 1.0 is a vast improvement, just could use a little more tweaking.

Sure, *realistically* if you have power armor you shouldn't be hurt by clubs and rabbits, but that's not engaging in a balance sense, and as stated the balance of the game is way more important than power armor. That kind of progression system works in an rpg, but I'm pretty sure it's not really in the spirit of Rimworld. Of course the fact the armor will degrade when hit does balance a lot of that out, it probably would have made Fallout 1/2 much more in-depth too. And Tygan already expressed in this thread how while he kind of likes that idea he doesn't want to make stuff too complex.
I suppose I did say in my own post though that the OG fallout system but tweaked might work nicely. That system wasn't inherently bad, it just had some truly unbalanced/untested numbers (like the AP rounds which were strictly worse at everything, especially armor penetration lmao).

To be honest, I don't think Rimworld's power armor is like your typical Fallout/WH40k/etc. of big bulky suits, that's not the vibe it gives me. It isn't strength enhancing servos and plates but rather this neuro-mimetic stuff that allows it to be firm yet flexible; in other words it's less heavy by every definition of the word.

Have to say I do agree with you on fallout 4's power armor, I dare say the best depiction in any game I've ever played, seen, or heard of.

I like the DR/DT system. It's also used in UnderRail, which we were looking at.

There are some downsides though:
-Weapons with zero effect on a given armor. If enemy has such armor, it may be frustrating. If you do, may be boring. Can anyone comment on experiences in Fallout with this?
-Spam. Assuming any damage occurs, a high DR means that attacks may end up doing lots of tiny bits of damage. It's fine in some games but in RW each damage is a separate wound, and if they're spammed it can look bad and cause other issues.

Yea, this was a massive issue in the original Fallouts, especially 2.
A lot of it was the stuff being bugged though: in fallout 1 the "Armor piercing" rounds didn't actually have any modifiers, nor did the hollowpoints; they all functioned the same. In fallout 2, the AP rounds would ignore ~30% of the DR (but *not* the DT), while having the base damage cut in half, the HPs had the opposite, so the APs were just strictly WORSE against armor.

But regardless, what you said is a big problem: many weapons become useless. This was again less of a problem in fallout 1 because the main enemy was super mutants, who didn't really have armor, just hp. In fallout 2 though, the Enclave has the best power armor known to man, with things like 90%DR+20DT to Lasers. Now, this was implemented badly, because it would do the DR, *then* the DT; a 40 damage laser would get reduced by 90%, then have a -20, making a big fat zero. Critical hits could overcome this, but that's just a lot of boring min-maxxing; for the most part you are forced to use the handful of super high powered weapons to do anything at the late game, while a lot of guns become obsolete really early, some way before you can even actually obtain them.

So, perhaps Rimworld could use a DT+DR system, if DT happens first, then the DR, you'll have less zeroes that way. But All-in-all I don't like that system, but I figured I'd give you the personal experience. I think the current unstable system is pretty damn good, just needs more tweaking with penetration values and such. The "clothing shouldn't deflect bullets" thing I don't care much for, because 1. it's such a small chance when you factor in penetration, 2. like someone else said about realistically there is some merit because rounds can glance, and 3. it's a video game, plenty of stuff isn't too realistic, Balance > realism
Still thinking on it.

So I'm not sure if this is intended or what, but here it goes:
As screenshot shows, colonist took a stab to the chest, and their flak vest downgraded it to a crush, as the description for sharp armor says.
Yet, it still bleeds. I'm not sure if this is just because it's a hit to lungs or if it only actually changes in name only? Seems to defeat the point of converting the sharp to a blunt impact if it still bleeds.

I've seen a bruise caused from gunshot before but I honestly can't tell you if it bled or not because it was after it got patched up that I noticed.

edit: I just noticed that other bruise to the chest caused by the knife. Kind of confusing as when I mouse over I only get the "X punched Y" there. Going to the log shows colonist only took 2 hits: one from fist, one stab from knife, so I may ahve answered my own question. Still seems slightly odd.

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Okay, here's a genuine concern:
Once you've smoothed a natural stone wall (a great feature btw), it's treated as owned and thus if you have to mine it, your colonists will try to repair to it, undoing the mining, requiring a lot of right clicking to get it done. I suppose having it set to mine should disable repairs on it.

So, 2 things:
-I built a trade beacon blue-print to get the radius, then built a wall to be my warehouse that perfectly encapsulates the radius, thus the beacon was built after. For some reason it's not letting me place a roof in a 5-tile area shaped like a plus over the beacon (see pic), despite the description saying "can be placed indoors". Luckily my goods that aren't under that unroofed plus are still considered "indoors (unroofed 5)" so they aren't actually breaking down. Kind of sucks though because of the temperature reg, now that room is perpetually ambient. Also, the option to place a zone around the beacon still included that unroofed zone, I shrunk that section away just to be safe (also a great feature putting it on the zone like that!)

-I guess because I updated in unstable, I (as a colony start) no longer have electronics and microelectrions researched, but both are 2/3rds the way done, while my machining research was redacted with 700/1000 points. Guess updating the costs mid-colony kind of "broke" some stuff 
"sorry boss, we don't know how to build AC, but here's a solar panel!"

Glad to see the constant work though, I'm truly hono(u)red to see my shotgun feedback incorporated!

This comes up a lot. If you surround an orbital beacon zone with walls they can't support the area in the middle. You need a pillar (aka a single wall) to hold up the roof in the middle.

Yeaaaaaaaaa, I just realized that when I tried removing the beacon to see if that changes it, I feel like a moron XD
It's never been an issue because I've never actually had this "effective" a use of space.

So, 2 things:
-I built a trade beacon blue-print to get the radius, then built a wall to be my warehouse that perfectly encapsulates the radius, thus the beacon was built after. For some reason it's not letting me place a roof in a 5-tile area shaped like a plus over the beacon (see pic), despite the description saying "can be placed indoors". Luckily my goods that aren't under that unroofed plus are still considered "indoors (unroofed 5)" so they aren't actually breaking down. Kind of sucks though because of the temperature reg, now that room is perpetually ambient. Also, the option to place a zone around the beacon still included that unroofed zone, I shrunk that section away just to be safe (also a great feature putting it on the zone like that!)

-I guess because I updated in unstable, I (as a colony start) no longer have electronics and microelectrions researched, but both are 2/3rds the way done, while my machining research was redacted with 700/1000 points. Guess updating the costs mid-colony kind of "broke" some stuff 
"sorry boss, we don't know how to build AC, but here's a solar panel!"

Glad to see the constant work though, I'm truly hono(u)red to see my shotgun feedback incorporated!

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