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I just did an outpost quest that had a reward for a power armor chest (good). My tech at the time isn't even at normal armor yet so this was a huge reward. I sent 4 guys on a 2 day trip. The enemy was tribal with like 8-10 people. Honestly I would of just left the map and turned around but I got lucky and saw there was a entirely built structure. So I put my sniper to draw the fight. They let me kill 1 person and wound another before attacking. When they attacked I just put the melee guy 1 tile before the door and everyone behind him so they would come in a nice single filed line.

Everyone of my guys were injured after the fight but I got to heal up in their bedroll room and claim all of their furniture which sold for like 200 coins at the closest village.

On my way home I decided to look at  a rescue prisoner quest on the way home and entered a map with like 30 manhunting yorkies (didn't actually count them). With no way to stop from being surrounded I said f that and left the dude to be eaten by the yorkies and went home.


I left 2 guys at home and a psychic drop ship landed but not long after my guys returned so successful mission that was well worth it.

Yea in my version there were two scythers that moved off into long distance sniper range. So there wasn't any reasonable way to kite the centipede during that. But tyrnan said he is removing the melee shooting thing and lowering centipedes. Also with deflect being such a huge feature melee gets a huge buff from not deflecting plus the 20% blunt damage. Obviously at this point it is theorycrafting because without these changes in the game we won't know how effective it really is.

I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.

I don't see it as digital suffer. I see it just like playing a game of chess. A fun series of calculated decisions that if I get wrong I can and will loose. But I find no joy in winning when I know I never had a chance for loss.

I never said it was the first option or even the second option. But in a low tech colony I feel like it is the only option. Once emp, mortars, sniper rifles, IEDs are available the flood gates open up on the amount of choices you can make taking on that threat. Give me none of those things listed above and no tech to make any of it then you should have other strategies in place.

Plus like tyrnan stated before everyone enjoys playing the game with their own strategies that make it fun. Maybe I wanted to create a scenario where 80% of the players had brawler trait. With the changes he stated he is making that is possible to succeed on. But of course you will need to recycle colonist more often if you choose to do risky melee fights a lot.

Edit to respawn to your second statement: The fight actually is extremely quick vs centipedes when you take it close range. Shotguns destroy them in basically the time it takes them to do like 3-5 melee attacks. With bullet deflecting being a thing it might have actually died quicker with two brawlers attacking it but I haven't tested it. Also sometimes the only decision that makes sense could be to sacrifice one pawn vs the risk of loosing everyone(a rare decision to make but an option).

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.

Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea.  Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision.  A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers.  Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map.  Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol

Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.

The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.

Thank you tynan.

TheMeInTeam Well currently with basic flak armor and clothing you are looking at around 20% damage reduction on all body parts basically ( without actually doing the full math). So the risk of death is there but unlikely. Risk of injury on smaller parts on fingers is pretty likely but ripped off arm isn't so much. Like you said on lower difficulty you will easily out gun/kite them. Higher difficulty when you happen to be out numbered by them a lot of the time sacraficing a pawn in melee combat seems fair. Death and injury should happen in higher difficulty to give more motivation to do rescue missions and keep a good jail.

If it is a bug or intentional I also created the siege guys to raid before building their mortar by attacking them before hand. I think the fire destroyed the building mortar and caused it. Either way I predicted that corner would get drop ships/siegers so I already had a defense bunker set up there and they wouldn't of been firing at my base.

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.

I haven't gotten sappers yet but I can't wait to see what that is like. My base is kinda built like attack on titan. Many layers and fall back spots and all in stone. I hold open doors between raids so pawns don't get slowed down. I'm up to 8 colonist now and my wealth should attract them very shortly I bet.

I made a whole post on why centipedes are 100% broken in the early game. You have to be at the tech level for some form of combination between sniper rifles, emp, or motars.

I believe shooting while in melee with small guns like a revolver and pistol is 100% fair. Being able to do that with a rifle, shotgun, minigun, grenade  and launcher is 100% broken. I always read on the forums how people hated brawlers and found them so useless in beta 18. I chuckled because I loved using melee guys in very tactical ways to shut my enemy down.

Now in 1.0 melee fighters are 100% worthless. There is no strategy with using melee fighters that isn't going to cripple/kill them extremely fast (besides just shield bet door openers...). There hasn't been anything game breaking in 1.0 until I discovered how melee works against heavy weapons. Now I am praying to hear from you Tynan to tell me this is all just a bad dream.

The thing about shooting point blank vs a wolf or something.. I don't find it needed imo. If they are around your territory consider the same value as a raid and take them out before they are hungry. If you want to tame them, consider working your way up the food chain. Grab something like a boar, turtle, or turkey and have a few of those types of grazing animals walk around with your animal tamer to design it that they can actually kill the predator before it turns on you while taming it. (those animals were just an example for thought process not actual selection).

I can confirm there is no toggle on torches and passive coolers.

Yea I agree while you are up integration does help a little but hauling overall needs a fix. Only good way I can haul now is to have a dedicated hauler or to manually shift everyone to haul then get  back to work. Tbh I am getting use to the manual but still prefer to set better work priorities

I hope you're joking. Late game diseases disable 3\4 of your colony and you want to tie frequency to wealth factor? God, no.

You missed a key word. Cap off. If it capped off to the rate the game is at now the over all difficulty of the early game can be increased by raids and lowered by taking away illnesses.

I feel like rate of infections/illnesses should scale with wealth and cap off. Early game it is really unforgiving and can cause scenarios that offer 0% chance of success. Late game yes it is deadly. Yes fighting any type of battle where your pawns can get injured is deadly but the great part of rimworld is that your colonist are suppose to die on higher difficultis. You are suppose to get set backs so you feel great when you climb out of the hole. Recruiting is balanced well enough that you can almost loose a colonist every season and still gain another one to take their place. Odds are you won't loose that many people and odds are if you invest in better jails and rescue quest you could even recruit more people.

In beta 18 I hit 20 colonist at one point on extreme and started feeling the need to banish and recruit as I found better people because I didn't like having more than 20 and I barely lost 1 person pure a year or two if even that. 

Alright I'll throw in a few quotes from rimwiki to give you the reason I melee attack centipedes and not scythers.

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Centipede
Centipedes have 20% blunt damage resistance 70% sharp damage resistance. Meaning the most effective weapon vs them is blunt damage which comes from melee weapons.
Melee of centipede 6.2 dps

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Minigun
First weapon minigun:
" It deals higher DPS than all melee weapons save for the scyther blade at point blank." (source wiki)
Dps - 10-36 dps
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Heavy_charge_blaster
Charge blaster 34 dps
"Like the Minigun, it is an excellent crowd control weapon, except it has an even higher DPS and a larger miss radius (2.9 tiles vs minigun's 2.4). " (Source wiki)

And the inferno cannon does weak damage but good luck fighting when half your team is running around in circles.

6.2 dps in melee combat vs 30+. Plus the fact they have 20% blunt damage resistance meaning potentially 8 guys with clubs might be able to take one down before 8 guys with similar tech weapons. In 1.0 the damage has a chance to reflect because of armor making the 8 guys with clubs even more of a viable strategy if it wasn't for the fact they can use their gun in melee.

The beta 18 scythers had 7.4 dps with ranged weapons. The melee damage isn't listed but each blade was 20 damage at 1.6 seconds. Really rough guess is some where between 35-40 dps at melee range.

I agree with themaninteam. I played b18 with naked brutal scenario on extreme Cassandra in the desert, icesheet and jungle. You have a HUGE amount of control over your pawns living or dieing in b18 although I don't agree that 1 unlucky shot can't kill them. I've seen a guy with a bow kill my person with a sniper rifle 14 skill in shooting (but it is rare and part of the fun for me). In 1.0 he already stated he fixed food poisoning on page 17. I do agree disease early game seems ramped up. I would rather more raids early on, than disease since it is more unforgiving. having to fight an 8 on 1 battle with a bow and savaging for weapons during the fight is much more fun and rewarding than having to slowly die from the plague before you even have a second colonist or real medication >.>.

Centipede melee damage is not weak!  I've seen it kill pawns rather than down them, rip off arms, crush organs etc.

I'd usually win these encounters in B18 via door micro to get free hits on mechs and pull scythers away from centipedes --> kill them...then sniper kite centipedes with no return fire.  Done properly, mechs can't shoot at you whatsoever.  Were their weapon stats in warm up changed in 1.0?  If not this should still be the way to go.

I'm saying comparative to their ranged weapon and how long the melee fighter actually needs to get hit for. I'd love to do door tatics but what if the ship drops 10 miles away from your base before mortars are researched?