harvest bionics from corpses

Started by keylocke, December 03, 2014, 03:49:17 PM

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Never fear, the redditor is here. A suggestion was posted in a reddit suggestions thread concerning this, Tynan replied why he doesn't want it. Here it is http://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/35pwuw/typical_tuesday_suggestion_thread_may_12_2015/cr6pwje or you can see it below.

"TynanSylvesterLead"
"This isn't allowed because it would destroy the game balance. Fictionally, bionics are so advanced that they're essentially part organic and they 'die' when the host dies. Never-installed bionics are manufactured in a 'frozen' state, but once installed they can't be taken out."
Selling broken colonist souls for two thousand gold. Accepting cash or credit.

keylocke

#31
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on May 13, 2015, 10:50:43 PM
"TynanSylvesterLead"
"Never-installed bionics are manufactured in a 'frozen' state, but once installed they can't be taken out."

ah, i thought we could still harvest bionics from live people or was it only available for simple-prosthetic? also, should we at least still be able to harvest prosthetics from dead people?

Adamiks

Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on May 13, 2015, 10:50:43 PM
Never-installed bionics are manufactured in a 'frozen' state, but once installed they can't be taken out."

But.... We CAN remove bionics parts from live people so.... i don't really see a point in this reply.

TLHeart

A living organ can be harvested from a living person, a living bionic part can be harvested from a living person, once the person dies, no more harvesting.

We the players see how important a bionic part is, and want it. I can see how it would be very hard to keep the game balanced if we could harvest the bionics from the dead raiders.

Adamiks

Quote from: TLHeart on May 14, 2015, 10:14:11 AM
A living organ can be harvested from a living person, a living bionic part can be harvested from a living person, once the person dies, no more harvesting.

We the players see how important a bionic part is, and want it. I can see how it would be very hard to keep the game balanced if we could harvest the bionics from the dead raiders.

1. Bionics are bionics, if they are "real" bionics, not only "enchanced natural limb" then they should can be harvested even from corpses. How bionic part can "die" even when they don't have flesh, blood and their owners don't feel pain on bionic parts?

2. Raider with bionic part? This is very rare. And if Tynan want to have this balanced so why he can't remove raiders with bionic parts and add possibility to remove bionic parts only from colonists (pawns couldn't have bionic parts on spawn).

3. If players can't remove bionics parts then they will just load autosaves if for example they "bionic guy" will die.

TLHeart

Quote from: Adamiks on May 14, 2015, 11:33:20 AM
Quote from: TLHeart on May 14, 2015, 10:14:11 AM
A living organ can be harvested from a living person, a living bionic part can be harvested from a living person, once the person dies, no more harvesting.

We the players see how important a bionic part is, and want it. I can see how it would be very hard to keep the game balanced if we could harvest the bionics from the dead raiders.

1. Bionics are bionics, if they are "real" bionics, not only "enchanced natural limb" then they should can be harvested even from corpses. How bionic part can "die" even when they don't have flesh, blood and their owners don't feel pain on bionic parts?

2. Raider with bionic part? This is very rare. And if Tynan want to have this balanced so why he can't remove raiders with bionic parts and add possibility to remove bionic parts only from colonists (pawns couldn't have bionic parts on spawn).

3. If players can't remove bionics parts then they will just load autosaves if for example they "bionic guy" will die.

read what tynan said,"
"TynanSylvesterLead"
"This isn't allowed because it would destroy the game balance. Fictionally, bionics are so advanced that they're essentially part organic and they 'die' when the host dies. Never-installed bionics are manufactured in a 'frozen' state, but once installed they can't be taken out.""

Raiders with bionic parts is quite common in my games, and if they are alive, I remove them for my needs, give the raider a peg leg, and release, or release them without an arm...

people are going to cheat the game, reload saves, no matter what tynan does. Not a valid reason to change the story Tynan has wrote, that bionics DIE due to being part organic. It is up to the individual person to accept the mistake that got their dude killed, or say, I will just reload, and go on like it never happened. 

Kegereneku

From what I understand Tynan wrote that rule because he couldn't solve the problem before (when it gave infinite part)

So I also see no reason to not ask him again if he can't try to solve the problem AND reduce the number of bionic-raider.
Right now the only alternative is to cheat because it take forever to get a Trader and the price are astronomical. (I know there's way of making easy money, but I don't want to have to rely on them as standard procedure)

I can deal with losing a colonist. But losing a colonist PLUS a item worth another colonist ? No way. And yet many of us want character with at least 2 bionics (arm, legs, eyes)
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TLHeart

well kegereneku, you have made the choice to not generate an income for your colony, to be able to purchase bionics... that is your choice. Does not mean Tynan needs to change the game, he has given you options, which you have chosen to not pursue.

I have colonists with 1, 2, 3, or more bionics... in my 30 colonist game... I sell simple meals to be able to afford all those bionics... No mods in that game.

I try to not kill any raider that has a bionic part, but mass melee attack, so that I can recover the bionics. Almost every raid from the snipers army has members with bionics.

Yes it is painful to loose a colonist with a bionic part, but that is the chance we take when they fight. Part of the risk reward of the game. If bionics were easy, the game would be very easy, and loose replayability.

hector212121

Did anyone consider the chance that bionics are like Bioware in shadowrun, and contain actual biological material?

As such being dead would make the bionics dead.

Perhaps add more expensive Cybernetics that are slightly more effective, can be harvested, but take twice as much to buy?

Toggle

Quote from: TLHeart on May 14, 2015, 10:14:11 AM
A living organ can be harvested from a living person, a living bionic part can be harvested from a living person, once the person dies, no more harvesting.

We the players see how important a bionic part is, and want it. I can see how it would be very hard to keep the game balanced if we could harvest the bionics from the dead raiders.

Pretty much that, yeah. And people wanted an answer, so I gave em an answer.
Selling broken colonist souls for two thousand gold. Accepting cash or credit.

ARiA1089

why not just have a really low chance to get the bionic back? if you ail you get a bit of plasteel or somet say maybe a 10% chance to get the bionic (higher chance with someone that has good medical and repair skill for instance) since i opened some ancient crypto sleep caskets and out came 5 guys with bionic limbs that i wanted
──▄▀──────────█──
──▄▀───────────█── Careful Kids, he got raided
─▄▀─█───────────█─
█──▄█────────▄──█─
─▀▀─█──█──█──█▄▀
────█──█──█▀▀
────█──█▄▄█
────█──█
────▀▄▄▀

giannikampa

Did anybody argued that bionics could need components+plasteel for installing and for repairing when damaged? And the medic performing surgery and repairing to have a minimum skill in crafting too?

And having to visit power sokets to recharge energy or they will go half efficency? (of course raiders would spawn at 100% charge and the battery last for 2-3 days to have raids work the same as they actually do)
-Pawn go for the job "recharge bionics", same as patient. I find it doable if the medbeds have to be attached to powerline and  have the power socket embedded in them so it'll look as the pawn is resting while power is drained from the circuit-

And solar flares affect bionics to half efficency?

And EMP damage drains energy from the part (then half efficency)?

I can imagine a new balance where you won't like having that many bionics because they are expensive to maintain or impossible at all.
And as always.. sorry for my bad english

cultist

Quote from: ARiA1089 on May 16, 2015, 09:26:03 AM
why not just have a really low chance to get the bionic back? if you ail you get a bit of plasteel or somet say maybe a 10% chance to get the bionic (higher chance with someone that has good medical and repair skill for instance) since i opened some ancient crypto sleep caskets and out came 5 guys with bionic limbs that i wanted

I think this is a great example of why you should not be able to harvest bionics from corpses. If they are supposed to be rare and valuable, potentially getting 5 at once is a problem. In the late game, raiders with bionics are not uncommon. In previous Alphas (where it was possible), a large attack meant a huge pay-off because you could harvest 3-4 bionics and make a ton of money, or use them to greatly improve your pawns.

keylocke

i lurve it when someone necroes one of my old threads.  ;D

anyways, as for the topic. iirc, bionics also increases colony wealth and if what mzbear said was true in another thread, a 3232 worth of wealth = 1 colonist = 40 additional threat. meanwhile, 35 threat = at 1 additional raider.

so since most bionics cost around 1.5k or more, that means that a pair of bionics could potentially increase the base threat by 40. (of course actual threat fluctuates based on the ramp up. ie : the length of time you took casualties)

i think it's possible that the potential increase in threat would balance out the accumulation of bionics so it evens out in the end.

SpaceDorf

It is an important thread.

Following the logic that Bionics are half-biological and die with the user, I think they should be harvesteble until the corpse is rotten, while losing hit points the same rate the host body does.

The question becomes now if they are self-repairing ( healing ) when installed into a living body or are no longer usable when hit points reach zero ..

On top of that if it has biological parts, those could become infected like any other body part when shot and not treated properly. Resulting in the loss of hit points of the component.

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