A way to make blast charges much less OP.

Started by Trensicourt, February 02, 2014, 11:29:05 PM

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Trensicourt

Right now blast charges kill everything and makes it impossible for raiders to attack properly. Right now, here is what I propose to nerf these blast charges.

Blast Charges can now be seen by raiders if not detonated at the proper time. For example, raiders that stay near the blast charge for some time will notice it. Once the raider notices, an icon will pop above the raider telling you that the raider detected the blast charge. Then every raider would scramble to get out of there and then move to a second entrance.

The chances of spotting these blast charges purely depends on the statistic of the specific raider. If the raider is an assassin or a deep space miner, he/she would detect it much faster.

How does this sound?

P.S. if this does get implemented, then sentry guns should be boosted a lot more.
WHAT IS RIM WORLD? A RAIDER DEATH BALL. LITERALLY.

mrofa

They are kinda hard to replace as they currently allow you to survive above 450 days, its about time when sheer number of raiders is so big that even on randome randy you will have a problem with its massive ammount of colonists. Raiders dont move in packs, often one or few are faster on the spot than the main force due of slow on some terrain or rocks. So this would render mines almost worthless in the late game where your only scrap metal is from trading with ships. This ofc is only when you fight the raiders and want to be no.1 weapons dealer in the universe :D
All i do is clutter all around.

thestalkinghead

the health damage should just be totally nerfed, and they could maybe just mainly stun people, but they should still be useful for their intended purpose of blasting rock

Trensicourt

Quote from: mrofa on February 03, 2014, 05:37:32 AM
They are kinda hard to replace as they currently allow you to survive above 450 days, its about time when sheer number of raiders is so big that even on randome randy you will have a problem with its massive ammount of colonists. Raiders dont move in packs, often one or few are faster on the spot than the main force due of slow on some terrain or rocks. So this would render mines almost worthless in the late game where your only scrap metal is from trading with ships. This ofc is only when you fight the raiders and want to be no.1 weapons dealer in the universe :D


That is because you have too many sentry guns most likely.
WHAT IS RIM WORLD? A RAIDER DEATH BALL. LITERALLY.

theSovietConnection

While I agree blasting charges definitely need a rework, I have my own idea on how this might be accomplished, and this has actually given me a couple of ideas as to how I'd like to see it done. I'd like to see blasting charges given two seperate firing modes.

The first would be a passive firing mode, much like your typical land mine. These would be invisible to both raider and colonist, leaving only a rough zone as to where you laid them. These mines could not be set within two squares of another mine, and could not detonate another mine, so no more cascading waves of exploding meat grindy goodness. They would be detonated as soon as someone steps on one. Potentially you could include a research to add an IFF transponder on them so colonists could walk over them without triggering them. Mines would also deal higher damage, but only within a one or two square radius.

The second would be an active firing mechanism, much like how they work now. These would be visible, deal lower damage over a 3-5 square radius, and have a chance to detonate other blasting charges around them. In this form, blasting charges would function more like an actual blasting charge, and not be terribly effective as an anti-personnel weapon. Blasting charges would also retain their current fuse timer, and not be an instantaneous detonation like land mines would be.

Tynan

I was thinking I'd just either cut them (they're not that interesting, really, and don't make much sense in the simulation since none of your colonists are setting them off), or make it so some percentage of raiders are smart enough to stop and shoot them on sight.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

Thunder Rahja

Replace them with "smart mines" that have a 3x3 blast area and use that same area as a trigger when hostiles (or even travelers) step over them. They'd need to be on a much shorter timer, of course.

Coenmcj

Something to make them either more powerful yet more difficult to use, or edit them in such ways that they are less powerful yet don't blow up buildings would be good...
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mrofa

Quote from: Trensicourt on February 03, 2014, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: mrofa on February 03, 2014, 05:37:32 AM
They are kinda hard to replace as they currently allow you to survive above 450 days, its about time when sheer number of raiders is so big that even on randome randy you will have a problem with its massive ammount of colonists. Raiders dont move in packs, often one or few are faster on the spot than the main force due of slow on some terrain or rocks. So this would render mines almost worthless in the late game where your only scrap metal is from trading with ships. This ofc is only when you fight the raiders and want to be no.1 weapons dealer in the universe :D


That is because you have too many sentry guns most likely.

I dont use the turrets they are to resource hungry and they are mostly destroyed as first target.
But that mechanic with thestalkinghead stun charges might be interesting.
All i do is clutter all around.

FowlJ

The description for the charges talks about blasting rock - rebalancing them to be better for mining (destroys more rock, longer fuse, needs a colonist to activate them?) and adding a less ridiculously good alternative for blowing up raiders would be my suggestion.

Galileus

It could be a fix to make charging blasters destroy (not detonate) other charging blasters within a good radius - bigger than explosion itself. Of course to work it would need a way to make it impossible to detonate all mines at once to work around it - one way to do it would be manual detonation (through console or a detonator item). Another possibility would be to add a random (1-100 ticks) variation in fuse time. The later would nerf mine fields double as much - not only because of the initial mines destroying mines rule, but also by ensuring you don't know which mines will actually blow if you try to set them all alive at once.

Riga

Quote from: FowlJ on February 03, 2014, 08:13:23 PM
The description for the charges talks about blasting rock - rebalancing them to be better for mining (destroys more rock, longer fuse, needs a colonist to activate them?) and adding a less ridiculously good alternative for blowing up raiders would be my suggestion.

I was thinking the same thing, would like to see some interacting with the colonist and larger explosion radius. The blasting charges are meant for mining, but currently do a vary poor job of it. I would still like to see some kind of land mind in the game, though just not as overpowered as the charges are.

ApexPredator

Quote from: Trensicourt on February 02, 2014, 11:29:05 PM
Right now blast charges kill everything and makes it impossible for raiders to attack properly. Right now, here is what I propose to nerf these blast charges.


I just played for a few hours and I got raided a bunch of times. Out of all of those raids not one raider was killed by a blasting charge, weird....

I have a few fix ideas:
1) Users, stop using them as defense
2) Since 1 is too complicated, if its programmable??? only allow them to be placed under mountains/in caves
3) make them clear more than a few blocks of rock so they become worth while for their intended purpose
4) delete them
5) If possible program them so any raider damage taken from BC also damages equal number and effect to colonists. Would love to see the forums if Tynan snuck something like this in an update.

Galileus

1) This is not an option. As long as charging blasters are in game, they do affect game balance. New players will be bored by how easy the defence is and will balme - and rightfuly so - the design. Or the game, more likely. If they game is balanced around defences with BC, their usage will become more or less obligatory.
2) This only nerfs outside bases while keeping undergrounds and funneling unchanged.
3) This does not address issue at hand in any way.
4) This is actually a resolution to the problem.
5) This is just an awful idea. It makes no sense whatsoever, it makes BC useless and heavily random in effect and is simply a bad design. It would need to be really heavily explained to the player, and if you need to do that for something so small, you've failed in your design. If it's not explained properly, players won't know what hit them and will blame - again, rightfuly so - the game. It's counter intuitive, unfair and punishing. It's simply really, really bad idea.

All in all #4 is the best of mentioned if you want to fix the BCs problem. #5 is best, if you want to get rid of BCs problem and half of your players at the same time.

Jones-250

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