New map / re-roll seed option

Started by Galileus, February 03, 2014, 12:07:44 PM

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Galileus

This is pretty minor thing, but I feel it would go a long way for many rolling geeks like me ;)

Add an option in in-game menu that allows you to re-roll the world gen without the need to randomize (and rename) your colonists again. I usually name all my starting folk manually, and then roll the dice on world gen - and repeat the whole thing until I find some interesting map. This would be soooo much easier with ability to re-roll the map without changing colonists!

BattleFate

Quote from: Galileus on February 03, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
This is pretty minor thing, but I feel it would go a long way for many rolling geeks like me ;)

Add an option in in-game menu that allows you to re-roll the world gen without the need to randomize (and rename) your colonists again. I usually name all my starting folk manually, and then roll the dice on world gen - and repeat the whole thing until I find some interesting map. This would be soooo much easier with ability to re-roll the map without changing colonists!
I agree wholeheartedly. I sometimes reroll my colonists a dozen times to get an alright set (not even the ideal set, but ones that would at least be useful), only to then be dropped on an uterly useless map. I have thought to myself several times that it would be extremely convenient to just be able to 'regenerate' the map fresh, without creating new colonists.

Another thing I thought of that might be useful would be to 'restart.' Use it anytime to land your original three colonists back on the untouched version of the map you're currently using. Say if you liked your colonists and map, but got unlucky in a few raids...

Zblugg

Consider yourselves lucky. Back in MY time, when we crashed on a planet, we didn't get to "reroll" who we crashed with, or IF we survived at all, let alone "pick" the planet we had to survive on! You young'uns have it easy!

Ahum... Ok.

In all seriousness, I completely support this idea. I reroll my colonists like crazy until I get a good, complementary trio, and it takes a while to get an interesting combo. So when you've spent 15-20 minutes getting those decent guys, only to end up on a map with only one visible steam geyser all the way across the map, well... It sucks.

Untrustedlife

#3
randomness is  a huge part of this game.... but..
here, I propose this.
You get a minimap showing the map when you start and you can reroll it. But that is all.


--------------
later in development however i believe it will generate a region for you to choose where to start in anyway, dwarf fortress style.
So dwarf fortress in space eh?
I love it.
I love it so much.
Please keep it that way.


Hey Guys, Here is the first succession Game of rim world for your reading Pleasure, it is in progress right now

LINK

Galileus

Re-rolls do not negate randomness. This is still another random pick, just as with colonists. You can try to get a "good" map - sure, but it's mostly about maps that are interesting. Today, spent 1h re-rolling maps and got amazing map with circular mountains, where I can at some point build a huge outdoor complex surrounded by walls of mountains and ... well... walls. It's not a great map, I'll have quite a few gaysers otside of the complex and will have to make appropriate tunnels, as well as clear the inside of the circle - and defense will be awful, with so many possible routes for raiders and need of building bunkers on every side. But it's a fun map, a very fun map to play on - and that's whats important.

ApexPredator

Quote from: Galileus on February 03, 2014, 03:56:58 PM
Re-rolls do not negate randomness.

I would have to disagree with this. Re-rolling for an hour is to negate randomness. If my first set of cols have two guys that can only fight fires, shoot, and do research 99% of people will back out and get a new set as that would make for a really slow/hard start to a colony, but it may create a great story that the world will probably never hear about. I have optimum map traits that fit my current "best" style of play but if my map does not have mountains similar to how I like them then it will force me to adapt and make on the fly changes to my tactics which increases the difficulty and makes the game more fun.

I do think when traits are in the game this may change this dynamic or my view on re-rolling as some of them seem pretty serious.

Galileus

Quote from: ApexPredator on February 03, 2014, 05:58:53 PMI would have to disagree with this. Re-rolling for an hour is to negate randomness.

Right and wrong. True, you can negate randomness if you work hard enough on it. False, it does not mean there is no randomness. Otherwise you state, that as of now there is no randomness at all in RimWorld - as you can save scam or start new games all the time to get the roll you want.

Quote from: ApexPredator on February 03, 2014, 05:58:53 PMI have optimum map traits that fit my current "best" style of play but if my map does not have mountains similar to how I like them then it will force me to adapt and make on the fly changes to my tactics which increases the difficulty and makes the game more fun.

It can make the game more fun it does not make the game more fun. It's not a quantifiable quality. Not only this can work as a double edged sword - you can get real bad roll or you are simply bored of that type of map - but also is massively subjective.

Randomness does not always mean better and harder - for me it's quite the opposite. As of now, map gen creates a ton of really dull, boring and easy maps, with huge underground next to you where you can fit everything you ever want and no interesting terrain features. It's harder and more fun to get that one different map, that makes the game feel fresh and new.

ApexPredator

Quote from: Galileus on February 03, 2014, 06:26:11 PM
Quote from: ApexPredator on February 03, 2014, 05:58:53 PMI would have to disagree with this. Re-rolling for an hour is to negate randomness.

Right and wrong. True, you can negate randomness if you work hard enough on it. False, it does not mean there is no randomness. Otherwise you state, that as of now there is no randomness at all in RimWorld - as you can save scam or start new games all the time to get the roll you want.

Quote from: ApexPredator on February 03, 2014, 05:58:53 PMI have optimum map traits that fit my current "best" style of play but if my map does not have mountains similar to how I like them then it will force me to adapt and make on the fly changes to my tactics which increases the difficulty and makes the game more fun.

It can make the game more fun it does not make the game more fun. It's not a quantifiable quality. Not only this can work as a double edged sword - you can get real bad roll or you are simply bored of that type of map - but also is massively subjective.

Randomness does not always mean better and harder - for me it's quite the opposite. As of now, map gen creates a ton of really dull, boring and easy maps, with huge underground next to you where you can fit everything you ever want and no interesting terrain features. It's harder and more fun to get that one different map, that makes the game feel fresh and new.

Negate is not the same as no, of course there will still be randomness to the game no matter how many times you re-roll. However, the start of every story is a spaceship crash on a random planet with random members of your old crew. If you get to choose who survives from said crash and where that crash happens it reduces the randomness of the game.

I also disagree with you that randomness of a game like this makes it better and harder. Say Tynan decided instead of a randomized map and crew each game, the same 3 survivors always landed on the same map… every single game. This would reduce the replay value greatly for a game like this. Usually when a gamer finds an optimum way to play a game they get in a hole and continue to play it that way, then it becomes boring and the move on to the next game. A perfect example of this is blasting charges. Tynan is not making people use them as a defensive tool but on the first page of the forums there are a few suggestions on how to reduce their effectiveness against raiders or topics of people that say that blasting charges are making the game too easy. People are suggesting that the creator of the game reduce the effectiveness of an item that they are not using for the intended purpose because it is lowering their enjoyment level. This shows that there are some gamers that have identified a problem with a game that they as the user have created and would rather remove or change the item than using it for its intended purpose.

A great thing about games is we can play them as we see fit to match our personal play style. Galileus, you and I clearly have different tastes in where we draw our enjoyment in a game from. However, I am with you that this function would be useful for people who like to start with a setup they are comfortable with, I just don’t see it as staying true to the creators intent for the game. Hopefully Tynan will chime in.

Galileus

You're still missing my point ;)

You said yourself - people tend to find this one way to play the game and stick with it. And this is why I would love re-rolls. Because most huge maps are generated with a huge block of mountain that forces the same type of play every time - or at least doesn't give any interesting reasons to do it differently. In this case, the "always same map" problem is because lack of re-rolls. I agree with you, that randomness is a huge part of the game and replayability - there is no arguing that. What my point is - re-roll of the map could even increase the differences you see in between gameplays, as map-gen tends to create quite similar maps for the most part.

From my point of view - pov of someone who's asking for this feature - we're in the "same map every time" situation right now, and feature I ask for is to fight it off. Right now, I get maps I'm comfortable with 99% of the time. I want a map that is new, fresh and that requires me to plan anew and on top of my head. Sure, some players could use it to get the same map every time - is it wrong? It's not like you get a map editor - it's a re-roll, not a creation of map you want. It's the same as re-rolling colonists until you have the trio you want - would you say locking re-rolls on colonists would be a better idea? Because I would strongly disagree.

Bodog999

Yeah I also would like to see more options to generate a map and hopefully we are in the future also able to fully customize your colonists in the start or even better save your colonists so when you start a new map you just load your colonists

daft73

Have to agree with adding this option. Nothing worse than to finally get a descent group of colonists ...then a crummy map. I'm not exactly sure why'd anyone could really be 'against' it...don't like it, don't use it  :o

Another reason, to set a better situation for RPGer's looking for that type of game play. Those may want a more difficult start, or with certain variables in place to start THEIR game.

The more options there is available to the player the better.

Untrustedlife

I suppose, I was just stating my opinion ;)

I do believe however that we will get the ability to "choose" our region later in development when world-generation comes into play. (if that will exist)

I hope that once we get more varied environments (other biomes for example) each region will have some sort of good quality.

So dwarf fortress in space eh?
I love it.
I love it so much.
Please keep it that way.


Hey Guys, Here is the first succession Game of rim world for your reading Pleasure, it is in progress right now

LINK