harvest bionics from corpses

Started by keylocke, December 03, 2014, 03:49:17 PM

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jakendrick3

Here are my thoughts:

Bionics:
Even a person with 30% brain function would be able to remove a bionic limb. You cut like 2 inches ABOVE the bionic part and then bring it to a doctor/crafter to have them remove the excess flesh. Idk about eyes though. Maybe not them

Organs:
The OP mentioned understanding not being able to harvest organs. I don't understand this at all. Your organs dont just shrivel up and die the second you do. You should definitly be able to harvest them.

Telarin

I agree that you should be able to remove bionics from corpses as well as harvesting organs from freshly dead humans, however, I think there should be a few caveats:

1) You have a chance to damage or destroy the bionics or organs, based on the medical skill of the colonists performing the tasks.

2) In the case of organs, the older the corpse, the less likely you should be to get a fully functioning organ. In reality, organs need to be harvested within a few hours of death at the most.

3) Selling harvested organs (or any organs for that matter) should result in negative thoughts similar to selling a prisoner.

Additionally there should be a workshop and appropriate techs to craft and repair your own prosthetics, starting with just simple prosthetics with the first level of research and advancing to more complicated bionics.

Some kind of AI assist implant to help boost the brain function of colonists with damaged brains would be nice too. Obviously this would not restore full function, but should be able to help a colonist with partial mental capacity perform better.

tommonius

Quote from: Drahkon on December 10, 2014, 02:33:51 PM
Items already have durability, just make removal/recovery decrease it, and let it be repaired for a cost at a workstation. At less than 20% durability it's unusable.

A fantastic idea! I think this would balance bionic parts out nicely, maybe we would need some kind of workbench to repair the broken bionical parts with additional metal/ toolkit/ wiring could we make.

Jane Doe Chainsaw

Quote from: keylocke on December 04, 2014, 04:06:21 PM
what it would be cool to have though is item durability : weapons, armors, bionics needs to be repaired by people with the "repair" task (it's just like repairing damaged walls, everything is done automatically)

This is a decent workaround, I think. You could scale the repair costs of the bionic repairs depending on the size of the attacking force, to represent how much action it saw during the combat. Take to workshop table, repair for x amount of steel, call it a day. Making the bionics scarce until later raids would also keep from disturbing early game balance.

Quote from: Telarin on December 17, 2014, 04:17:22 PM
I agree that you should be able to remove bionics from corpses as well as harvesting organs from freshly dead humans, however, I think there should be a few caveats:

1) You have a chance to damage or destroy the bionics or organs, based on the medical skill of the colonists performing the tasks.

2) In the case of organs, the older the corpse, the less likely you should be to get a fully functioning organ. In reality, organs need to be harvested within a few hours of death at the most.

3) Selling harvested organs (or any organs for that matter) should result in negative thoughts similar to selling a prisoner.

All of this is solid. I agree whole-heartedly.
-J.D.C.

_alphaBeta_

So the 19 December change log entry says:
QuoteProperly disallowed harvesting body parts or bionics from corpses.

I'm not understanding why, other than Tynan is seeing this as exploitative. Even then, there's so much time between traders, and the correct kind of traders, that bionic parts are difficult to come by. This holds true for very rich colonies as was said previously since all the silver in the world doesn't increase the trader visits.

I agree with the previous suggestions about deceased time and extraction skill etc. playing a role in possibly compromising the bionic body part. Ideally, I'd take this into account and allow live organ harvesting as well with an additional multiplier that makes it very difficult to accomplish unless you have an absolute expert doctor.

I can think of numerous stories than can be generated from organ (natural or bionic) harvesting. At least a part of your favorite colonist can live on or save someone's life if they should perish. etc.

I'm disappointed to see this ability go honestly.

keylocke

i think that was coz tynan considered bionic harvesting as a bug rather than a feature. perhaps coz organ harvest can fully be exploited on dead people. (since what is already dead may never die, even if player decides to harvest all organs)

nevertheless, i still agree that doctor skills should have an effect on success rate of harvesting/implanting organs/bionics from a live pawn. i think it should also be applied when operating on a fresh corpse (but with a penalty), since there's this easy distinction between fresh and rotting corpse anyways.

the probability of operation failure plus the negative mood colonists get from organ harvest, should be enough to balance out the benefits from harvesting from the dead.

2rok

I think harvesting organs and operations should simply take more time, skill and people to do. Wouldn't it be cool if you needed one doctor to do a simple medical treatment but  if you wanted to say replace a heart you'd need a proper room, multiple surgeons and machinery.

Also preserving the organs could be a job at a crafting table, and the organs could have some sort of quality dependent on the person who worked on them. Then the organs could spoil if not properly cooled/stored. That would stop exploits and make a proper industry out of it at the same time, if you wanted your colony to go that way...


Bappy1988

How about a happiness penalty (squeamish trait) for using second-hand bionics.

If a corpse has "Bionic leg" harvesting it gives you "Second-hand bionic leg" which has a smaller buff than a new one.
Harvesting "Second-hand bionic leg" gives you "Faulty bionic leg" which has no buff at all.
Harvesting "Faulty bionic leg" gives you a generic prosthetic which cannot then be harvested itself.

This allows several benefits;
You don't immediately loose your entire bionic buffs when someone dies.
You can benefit to some degree from bionics harvested from dead raiders.
Availability of bionics increases as traders can sell you second hand bionics for a reduced price.
You don't end up with a totally ridiculous army of 50x R-4 equipped super-soldiers.
You still have to be conservative with your use of bionics.
Much much simpler/cheaper to implement in code than crafting tables, special disposable bionic removal items etc.
Additional story telling if you accidentally give someone a second hand... hand... when they have the 'squeamish' trait - maybe they could instantly go on mental break as soon as they come round from surgery or with a little extra code suffer frequent bouts of nausea and vomit everywhere requiring clean up and making them eventually die of starvation unless you remove the bionics lol

lots of ways to implement the (IMO) more feasible option of recycling bionics without it becoming unbalanced in the game.

166_MMX

Quote from: keylocke on December 03, 2014, 03:49:17 PM
^title :

i understand not being able to harvest organs off from dead people. but bionic implants should still be harvestable, amirite?  ;D

+1

Although I am aware that bumping old topics is discouraged I just wanted to emphasize that I am looking forward to see this implemented. Also for simple prosthetics. Just didn't want to create a duplicated post about the same topic.

Mikhail Reign

How about bionics harvested from the dead only result in some plasteel - and then make bionics craftable from plasteel? One dead leg wouldn't give enough plasteel to make a new leg, but 2 or 3 would.

This way you don't get to just keep freely reusing the same parts, but a dead guy with a bionic arm is actually worth something.

As a tangent - how fuckin awesome would ledgendary power claws be?

Hayhorse

For all of you newbs on this page, it used to be a thing were you could remove bionics from corpses but was removed in alpha 9 due to a bug that allowed you to infinitely harvest non-damaged bionics as the coding for health would not update after death. So no. It will not be added back into the game. If it was it likely wont be until the full release when Tynan goes over ALL of the code to see what he could fix and ONLY then might it be brought back. Also if you are losing bionic limbs, more specifically full bionic super solders you are just terrible at the game. Unless it is a horde of squirrels or tortoises.

Hayhorse

Also if you really want to be able to craft and harvest bionic there are mods.

Kegereneku

Considering how hard it is to buy bionic (if you even get traders), I think it worth asking Tynan if he can't solve or get around that bug.

I don't imagine it making too easy to get bionic, unless I somehow never noticed all raid had bionic user.
"Sam Starfall joined your colony"
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Turtle Dude

I would agree to being able to take bionics from dead should be possible, or at the most be able to get metal, from them if cremated.

Adamiks