Feedback: Smithing feels like it requires Machining

[b0rsuk]

Most items from the Smithy line are melee weapons. To last in melee combat, you need armor, otherwise you lose legs, arms, or have your colonists outright killed. Machining technology greatly improves survivability of melee colonists:
+ armour vests protect you from a few instant kill shots including neck and heart, but with only 40 HP torso is also prone to being destroyed
+ kevlar helmets helmets make colonists resistant to brain damage. The exposed bits - nose, eyes, ears, are either not so important or can be replaced.

In practice, I feel temptation to postpone using melee colonists (Smithy) until after I get Machining. It feels like Machining is the secret pre-requisite for Smithy! This is odd when you start as a tribe.

The alternative ? There's only one, devilstrand dusters. But Devilstrand takes 500 to research and I highly doubt you can research it, plant and harvest before winter. Then you need to craft the duster. Devilstrand dusters are not so great on their own. I mean it's nice they protect limbs better than the helmet + vest combo, but a full set of devilstrand takes loong to craft. Unless you're living in year-round growing zone (a.k.a. easy mode), I think it's faster to actually rush Electricity + Machining.

What are your thoughts ?

[Boston]

I have always thought that there should be "lower tech" versions of armor available in the game, craftable both on a smithing bench and on a tailor's loom.

Not "regular clothing", but actual purpose-made armor that provided equivalent protection to actual armor. NOTE: all "low tech" armors would provide no protection from bullets and firearms.

Gambeson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambeson): Made of multiple [12-20] layers of cloth sewn together, or heavily padded with batting stuffed between two layers. Would serve to stop arrows and blunt strikes, but spears and blades would punch through after a couple of hits.

Buff coat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buff_coat): Made of heavy full--grain leather, would stop bladed weapons, but blunt weapons would smash with full force.

Mail: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_(armour)) Provide protection equal to the ballistics vest, for the torso, arms and legs.

Of course, I still think that shields should be a part of the game. There are only a few cultures in history that didn't use shields for melee defense, and in many cases, some form of shield was the only defense for many warriors. There is a mod for this, and it works great, but I still think it should be a part of the base game.

In real life, I have made a shield from entirely "primitive" materials: wood from a split sapling for the rim, woven wicker (like a basket) for the face, and a covering of rawhide to hold it all together. Said shield was able to withstand several direct stabs from a steel spear with no damage, and was able to deflect a club and a knife with no problems.

[b0rsuk]

I have always thought that there should be "lower tech" versions of armor available in the game, craftable both on a smithing bench and on a tailor's loom.

This is what I was hinting at. Your post is what, my post is why.

Smithing comes earlier if you play a tribe but it's not self sufficient.
Devilstrand dusters:

500*2 (Complex Clothing) + 500 (Devilstrand) = 1500 research.
Helmets + vests: 3600 Electricity, 4500 Machining, total 8100.

Devilstrand dusters need good growers and good crafters.
Machining requires just good crafters.

Devilstrand is exotic, expensive and rare. You need 80 just for a duster.
Steel is common, components are semi-common. You need 4 to fully outfit a colonist.

Devilstrand must be planted in Spring but after research. This typically means year 2. Toxic fallout can come in year 2, and good luck mustering enough sunlamps to save it as a tribe.
Steel can be dug out at any time, winter has no effect on mining whatsover.

Proposal: Devilstrand can be planted by skill 10 growers from the start, but you need to research a technology like Devilstrand Tailoring or Devilstrand Processing to make clothes out of it. That way it could be used in year 1. This is how Hops currently work. You can sow them right from the start, but you need research to brew beer.

[cultist]

Proposal: Devilstrand can be planted by skill 10 growers from the start, but you need to research a technology like Devilstrand Tailoring or Devilstrand Processing to make clothes out of it. That way it could be used in year 1. This is how Hops currently work. You can sow them right from the start, but you need research to brew beer.

I agree with this. If Devilstrand is going to be useful, you need to start growing it right away. Moving the research to the actual crafting part seems like a good solution to me. I imagine that making clothes out of mushrooms is kind of specialized skill anyway.

[b0rsuk]

On the other hand, do many colonies start with skill 10+ grower ? This seems pretty rare unless you just love rerolling colonists. Devilstrand seems designed to be a year 2+ thing...

[winddbourne]

I like this suggestion . . . there is so much that needs researching early on that being able to plant both devil strand or hops and have them stored away for later sounds like a great solution.