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Would you rather the game use the realism of iron ore, or the questionable steel ore?

Iron Ore
Steel Ore

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Author Topic: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?  (Read 18429 times)

200Down

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2015, 05:24:05 PM »

True but why bother when the pros might add it anyways. Plus you gotta have the time to update through all those alphas ... not that it's all THAT much time but still. Plus the more core we have to work with the better..., who knows what may be possible by the time it's released :) Start from scratch with all your mods again  ???
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Vas

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2015, 05:36:16 PM »

And what about thos eof us who can't do DLLs?  Because we don't know C#/C++?  We can only request a mod, and no one will do it cause they are busy making their own mods.  We are left in the dust, doing only the basics.  I also HATE that philosophy.  "Oh, well I don't like this aspect, so instead of asking the developer for a change, I'm just going to make a mod for it." or "Well he doesn't like that thing, so instead of supporting him in his attempt to get a feature changed, renamed, removed, added, I'm going to tell him to make a mod.  And if he doesn't know how, too bad so sad, guess he'll just have to request it."

This happens to me often enough that it kinda makes me hate some modders when they tell me "do it yourself".  That doesn't really happen as often in this community.  In the Kerbal Space Program community, the modding community is full of ....... that tell you "do it yourself." -Don't know how.- "Learn." who don't even offer to really help you at all or anything.  So.  yea.  I get that modding is the core of pretty much all games now because people like changing things but it shouldn't be the core.  Modders shouldn't be telling people "Just make a mod" when they ask for a feature request.  If a modder likes the feature request, he should support it.
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skullywag

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2015, 05:40:41 PM »

i know this is off topic but i have to post this, My point about it being infinitley moddable was meant to be a nod to how awesome of a base Tynan has given us, it wasnt meant as a do it yourself comment.

I personally do not mod for glory or anyone else, i mod cuz its fun, if Tynan makes a mod of mine obsolete by adding it to the core game, thats one less thing I have to mess with which means one more new thing I can create and mess with. If the risk of something getting added to the main game stopped modders, then most of the prolific modders here would be gone, no JEllie, Haplo, Mrofa and others, lots of stuff from modders is in the core game now. Also a lot of the content is original stuff not based on anything in core, so again I mean no offence but your point of "why bother" is a bad one.

/offtopic

Back ontopic, if iron is introduced are we going have to refine it into steel? (if not, do we not fall into the same trappings Vas brought up about steel, for example you wouldnt make a solar panel out of iron...) too many processing steps does not work well in this game. I found this out in my material crops mod, your colonists end up doing that and nothing else. Theres other considerations that need to be taken into account here bar the "realistic" argument.

Edit - lol Vas you posted while I was typing that response to 200Down.

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elStrages

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2015, 06:01:16 PM »

I would definitely say that iron ore makes more sense in a mining point of view, but I suppose it really doesn't make much difference, I mean you can mine Plasteel anyways. Who's to say on the outer planet that steel hasn't formed naturally.
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200Down

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2015, 06:22:21 PM »

/offtopic
Back ontopic, if iron is introduced are we going have to refine it into steel? (if not, do we not fall into the same trappings Vas brought up about steel, for example you wouldnt make a solar panel out of iron...) too many processing steps does not work well in this game. I found this out in my material crops mod, your colonists end up doing that and nothing else. Theres other considerations that need to be taken into account here bar the "realistic" argument.

Soo much of the game feels like a placeholder it's boggling sometimes to even decide what to "suggest".  We need a "Tynan Stamp" of approval or disapproval on suggestion threads or just a "yes I've seen your suggestion" stamp bahahahahaha. It's fine if he hates the idea but let us know so we can drop it all together :)

But yea I found out the "Nu Metals" is the one I'm using. Which basically adds "ore" types to just the metals which is just four. I modified the smelting process... faster... more at one time. It's another step but quick enough to not take over the entire beginning of the game. I personally just missed the feeling of progression you got in DF from actual ores.  Maybe things like this should just stay as mods. Donno

Actually, just big red "SCREW YOU" stamp... yea.. that's the ticket
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 06:25:17 PM by 200Down »
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Vas

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2015, 03:39:11 AM »

If we rename steel to iron, all items will take iron to craft rather than steel.  It simply makes more sense for a group of people who crash landed in the middle of no where.  Steel is difficult to work with because it has higher melting points and is stronger material.  I don't think 3 naked people starving to death because they can barely get food are going to be working with steel proficiently.

However, this also lets someone make a mod to make steel.  You can't make steel into anything, because Steel is man made, and doesn't go into anything.  It's made with multiple types of metal, main being Iron.  Iron gets mixed with a lot of things to make other things.  Mainly steel.  So if it is renamed, it brings realism back to the game and adds modding options.

Yes, I realize adding a step to refine iron into steel would add more work for colonists, that's why steel should be a sort of mid-late game thing.  Like building gold/silver walls and your ship.

Also, yes, I know Plasteel is minable.  I don't completely like that either but, it is kind of here to stay.  Though I did make a mod that lets you craft it from steel after you craft steel with Iron.  But anyway.
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TrashMan

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2015, 05:04:05 AM »

IRON ORE - mined from mountains

Simple smelter made from stone (stoneworking unlocked immediately? Advanced stoneworking for later?) can turn it into IRON INGOTS.
iron ingots are heavy and durable.
smleting iron again (+ coal?) gives you STEEL
Steel is lighter and more durable.

finally copper for copper wires. No more steel conduits.

Would this slow down the game progression somewhat? Yes a bit. You'd have to depend more on wood and stone early on. So what? Frankly I think the progression is too fast.
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Johnny Masters

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2015, 12:25:49 PM »

I too wouldn't mind a slower progression and chain production, although the game would have to be rebalanced around that, perhaps a longer day and raiders take longer to appear: which is something i'd like to see anyway, for a rimworld its too crowded.

I understand wanting a new system, but new for the sake of new does not make a good point, specially if the logic behind is flawed. ie: using compacted steel from crashed ships is 'novel', but the logic behind is IMO a bit silly and feels like a placeholder until a better system comes -which might just be. I actually liked "metal" better.

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muffins

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2015, 05:50:38 AM »

It would be interesting if there were several metals, and like stone they're not always on your play map. Imagine having to make weapons out of copper, lead or tin for instance, or having to import steel.

200Down

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2015, 07:21:44 PM »

Don't go too crazy now! My colonists won't have time left for.. well.... nothing but waiting for more attacks.

The idea of mining steel from hills/mountains regardless of how you "spin" it is just too hard to swallow. It's the equivalent of telling us that you should crap on a firepit and then say "that's how it works in my "lore"". And while your at it you should wipe with your buddy's beard because it makes it softer in THIS world. Almost as easy to accept as drinking food and eating water.

It would be different if the ENTIRE game was off the rails and completely unrealistic. But it isn't. Nuff said really.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 07:26:02 PM by 200Down »
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BetaSpectre

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2015, 02:03:20 AM »

TBH I always thought it was iron ore.
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Bitharne

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2015, 03:30:13 AM »

It's not steel ore...that would be silly, and there is no such thing.

It's Compacted Steel, potentially millions or billions of years have passed on some planets with structures or ships getting smushed into the geology. This also allows compacted plasteel on the map.

Now, if in the future the game expands and adds iron, but leavs some compacted steel we might have some talks about that.

In the end, I dont see what iron can add...the game is set in a time where steel is trivial to create from iron and there is far too few pawns for elaborate industrial chains to get from a useless item to a basic item.

It would be similar to arguing that logs can only be used in construction after the were cut into planks. That said, I miss the old log wall :P
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Johnny Masters

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2015, 03:51:46 AM »

I think everyone is aware of the explaining behind compacted steel, perhaps we are questioning its plausibility, which liking or not is important for a lot of people.

The game is set in a time where different tech levels coexist, and you crash on a planet devoid of a significantly advanced civilization, essentially going back to the stone age - if not for the omni-mega-super-tool that does everything and is yet to be addressed in lore. That said, it makes sense to re-do some steps in how we produce things before achieving glitterworld tech. For me, the longer the chain and investment, the greater the reward (mileage may vary).

techtree minami allows for logs to be used in 'raw' constructions and to cut logs into wood planks to make regular wood walls. It works great. But yeah, the more steps we have the longer the days (should) become, the slower the game flows, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
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200Down

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2015, 04:51:13 AM »

It would be similar to arguing that logs can only be used in construction after the were cut into planks. That said, I miss the old log wall :P

Just out of curiosity, I think I noticed some remnants of cutting logs by hand in one of the xml's. Was that in the game at one time or a planned feature that got abandoned. Don't really care ither way just curious is all.

ok back to the topic at hand;
Ya um... ya.. just can't do it.. no way no how... you guys suck for thinkin in any way differently than I do!  Ok so maybe it wasn't constructive but it was a comment. sorta.
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TrashMan

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Re: Do you think Steel ore should be Iron ore instead?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2015, 05:02:56 AM »

It's Compacted Steel, potentially millions or billions of years have passed on some planets with structures or ships getting smushed into the geology. This also allows compacted plasteel on the map.

Ever heard of degradation/decomposition?
Steel won't last millions of years.

The whole "we found a million year of spaceship and it still works" is high fantasy.
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