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Author Topic: RTS style groupings?  (Read 3833 times)

TacoStorm

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RTS style groupings?
« on: October 01, 2013, 09:12:32 PM »

I find myself often times wanting to assign groups to various structures people for various actions. For example, I will usually keep my auto-turrets offline until raiders come, at which point I pause the game and turn them all on one at a time.  That helps conserve power. Similarly, when raiders come, if it's going to be a long siege, I'll often turn off most of my lamps.

Same thing with if I wanted to have two teams of colonists attack from two different angles, or have my rifle snipers attack from one area, and my pistol users from another.

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Semmy

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 09:43:53 PM »

This forum should have a like or +1 function so people could support a idea.

I think that being able to group your stuff or set parameters to make stuff work or go off be awsome.

Let me rephrase parameters. Levers to put all your turrets on or off.

I mean havent we all by accident flooded our own fortress by pulling the wrong lever. Wich would cause urist mcflame run for all the lava flowing into your stronghold.
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TacoStorm

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 09:47:13 PM »

Yeah, levers actually sounds like a better solution for lights/turrets, since then it could potentially open up avenues for interesting stories.

But I still think groupings for drafted colonists would be useful.
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Semmy

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 09:52:12 PM »

Yeah, levers actually sounds like a better solution for lights/turrets, since then it could potentially open up avenues for interesting stories.

But I still think groupings for drafted colonists would be useful.

I completely agree for goons.

But i want to make a control room again with 50 levers. And than forgetting wich does what and having to try them 1 by 1 d-; Would have been a great addition to df some sort of visible line between lever and actionobject when you select lever.
And ofcourse the other way around

Now im thinking of it.
This game doesnt deserve levers.
Should be more like terminals/computers. Wich at first could be slower once so there is a delay between the goon reaching the terminal and when he makes the action the first tier/cheap terminal could have a certain delay before his action is in effect.

When turning a number of items on wich give a spike wich goes over your output you could have a EVEN/INCIDENT lets call it a powerbalt shooting around or a explosion or whatever.
Makes you have to think plan consider whatever your doing
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 10:07:49 PM by Semmy »
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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 03:57:22 AM »

But i want to make a control room again with 50 levers. And than forgetting wich does what and having to try them 1 by 1 d-; Would have been a great addition to df some sort of visible line between lever and actionobject when you select lever.
And ofcourse the other way around

Now im thinking of it.
This game doesnt deserve levers.
Should be more like terminals/computers. Wich at first could be slower once so there is a delay between the goon reaching the terminal and when he makes the action the first tier/cheap terminal could have a certain delay before his action is in effect.

When turning a number of items on wich give a spike wich goes over your output you could have a EVEN/INCIDENT lets call it a powerbalt shooting around or a explosion or whatever.
Makes you have to think plan consider whatever your doing
Having 50 levers (or 50 computers for switching stuff off and on again) will fall under the category "how much complexity do we want to have ?"

I do hope Tynan will find a way to alleviate the need to switch some appliances on or off...
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Hypolite

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 04:53:58 AM »

I do hope Tynan will find a way to alleviate the need to switch some appliances on or off...
Well, it's not like the US government had to alleviate the need to switch some government services on or off, right?

For me, if you can only run your base by switching on/off some appliances regularly, the problem is not the lack of control groups, it's more like you don't have a good enough power grid. And levers won't change that.
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British

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 05:23:18 AM »

I was referring to this post from Tynan, in which he states:
"I want to stop people disabling stuff all the time to save power, its too micromanagey. Any thoughts? I thought about making something a colonist has to do that takes them time."
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Semmy

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2013, 08:10:59 AM »

I was referring to this post from Tynan, in which he states:
"I want to stop people disabling stuff all the time to save power, its too micromanagey. Any thoughts? I thought about making something a colonist has to do that takes them time."

Ah ok not wanting micro management does exclude alot of ideas.


What he could do is give stuff like turrets an idle usage like 25watts for searching tracking and surveying.
And a peak usage of 50 or whatever watts when it starts shooting
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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 11:37:07 AM »

All right! Well, I think the basic RTS grouping idea is a sound one. I'm going to hold off though because I'm planning on making some changes that should make this unnecessary. It won't happen immediately, but it'll happen. In the mean time, you can replicate a lot of the functionality with double-click. It selects everything of the same type on screen. For example, if you want to select every turret, zoom way out and double click on a turret.

I was referring to this post from Tynan, in which he states:
"I want to stop people disabling stuff all the time to save power, its too micromanagey. Any thoughts? I thought about making something a colonist has to do that takes them time."

Ah ok not wanting micro management does exclude alot of ideas.


What he could do is give stuff like turrets an idle usage like 25watts for searching tracking and surveying.
And a peak usage of 50 or whatever watts when it starts shooting

Yeah, my attitude on micromanagement is basically this: The player is going to output a certain number of clicks every hour. We want as many of those clicks to relate to interesting decisions and interactions, and as few to thoughtless tasks as possible. The problem with micromanagement like turning off your guns to save power is that it is clicking without thought - interaction not tied to a valuable player experience. More and more of that eats up more of the player's click budget per hour until the game becomes a mindless exercise. We don't want that.

Semmy, your idea is good because it's simple and easy to implement. It's not a perfect solution (players may still turn the gun off to save 25 watts) but it's darn good. And I'm not into waiting around for perfect solutions.

I think a more complete solution would involve adding a cost to turning things on and off. For example, when you toggle them, nothing happens - all it does it send a colonist over to do the actual work. So if you want to turn your guns off that's fine, but it takes colonist time to do so. And if something bad happens and you don't get back to the gun in time, raiders will walk right past it.
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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2013, 11:54:10 AM »

I like the idea of colonists having to turn things on/off. It fits well with the "player planned, colonist executed" style that makes the enjoyment in that kind of game ever since Bullfrog's early games (Dungeon Keeper, Populous).
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Semmy

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Re: RTS style groupings?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 12:09:04 PM »

All right! Well, I think the basic RTS grouping idea is a sound one. I'm going to hold off though because I'm planning on making some changes that should make this unnecessary. It won't happen immediately, but it'll happen. In the mean time, you can replicate a lot of the functionality with double-click. It selects everything of the same type on screen. For example, if you want to select every turret, zoom way out and double click on a turret.

I was referring to this post from Tynan, in which he states:
"I want to stop people disabling stuff all the time to save power, its too micromanagey. Any thoughts? I thought about making something a colonist has to do that takes them time."

Ah ok not wanting micro management does exclude alot of ideas.


What he could do is give stuff like turrets an idle usage like 25watts for searching tracking and surveying.
And a peak usage of 50 or whatever watts when it starts shooting

Yeah, my attitude on micromanagement is basically this: The player is going to output a certain number of clicks every hour. We want as many of those clicks to relate to interesting decisions and interactions, and as few to thoughtless tasks as possible. The problem with micromanagement like turning off your guns to save power is that it is clicking without thought - interaction not tied to a valuable player experience. More and more of that eats up more of the player's click budget per hour until the game becomes a mindless exercise. We don't want that.

Semmy, your idea is good because it's simple and easy to implement. It's not a perfect solution (players may still turn the gun off to save 25 watts) but it's darn good. And I'm not into waiting around for perfect solutions.

I think a more complete solution would involve adding a cost to turning things on and off. For example, when you toggle them, nothing happens - all it does it send a colonist over to do the actual work. So if you want to turn your guns off that's fine, but it takes colonist time to do so. And if something bad happens and you don't get back to the gun in time, raiders will walk right past it.

Tynan. You could make Turning a turret on and off cost a certain amount of time Lets say 3 secondes.

Imagine every turret taking that much time to turn on.
And it puts a strain on your workforce and you got a period in wich you are vurnerable. Wich might in return cause you to let them on.

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