Valve and Steam

[TheSilencedScream]

It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.

This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?

Just my personal opinion..

I feel like the OP covered that.

Go search Steam (if you have it) for Stonehearth. It's not on there.
Yet you can buy a Steam key for it at the link provided by the OP.

Apparently, there's an option - besides pre-order, Early Access, and release - where you can play a game that isn't available directly on Steam.

Essentially, Ludeon can still have a full release that gets all of regular press and recognition from Steam, but it allows for a playerbase on Steam even before that release happens, without forfeiting that hype that you speak of.

The questions, really, are:
1.) Whether or not that's an exclusive deal with Stonehearth
and, if not,
2.) Whether or not Tynan wants to pursue the requirements for that course (though, he states in the second post that he's interested).

[tommytom]

I was disappointed I had to drop $30 on a non-steam indie game, but I still deemed it worth it and made the plunge.

I have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.

The main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.

In reply to someone claiming it's not good for alpha and about the gamesave incompatibilities. That can simply (well, not simply) be programmed in to be backwards compatible, disable automatic updates (only manually update through steam if you are prepared to make a new colony). There are tons of "early access" games on steam and they sell like hotcakes and people generally don't care about broken saves as it was for a less feature-ful version or broken version itself.

With RimWorld, Tynan releases fairly stable public RCs, so I think it's actually better than most early access games on Steam. Don't read that as "then why do you need Steam?" as that is not even the factor. Steam is an extra factor.

I know it's easier, especially with a smaller dev team, to simply not have backwards compatible game save loading or conversions (especially with the bugs that that itself could cause), but look at something like Minecraft where you could literally update and convert any old version you wanted since the beginning of time and never have an issue. Sure, you missed out on new world generation options (biomes, etc), but you got to keep the core things that "made" your world/colony/whatever. Just re-save the colonists and items into a new compatible save and start from there. That itself would be a pretty big unertaking, but it would be a huge step forward in making a much more enjoyable update scheme and prepare for automatic updates or distro systems like Steam.

[Doomlord9]

It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.

This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?

Just my personal opinion..

According to the homepage 65k units have been sold solely through their own system. If Tynan can get Rimworld onto the Featured section for a week on Steam, which is not uncommon for newly released games I see them there all the time, the number of purchased copies of the game would likely increase by at least 50% if not double entirely just because of the increased visibility of the game. Even with the commonly used 10% discount for being newly released on Steam, the money generated within a week or two would be more than worth the effort and time needed to get the game into the Steam market, not to mention those like me who are only waiting to purchase once we will get a Steam Key for doing so.

As for Steam Sales, I think the dev can set how often and how large the sales are so Tynan wouldn't be losing much money if he loses any at all due to the increased visibility causing far more people to buy than they would without it.

[tommytom]

Exactly.

I only knew about this game watching a 1+ year old DF youtube video from a small let's player (VangaurdOfValor) and it wasn't even from the video, it was from a random comment I seen on the video saying RimWorld was basically DF with a better UI/graphics (which was the only ting stopping me from playing DF though I desperately wanted to get into that game but couldn't).

[StorymasterQ]

Also, has this point even been raised: The introduction of this game into Steam would draw trolls and other dipsh!ts that could NOT tolerate the harshness of the game. They could easily shout louder at how the game is just not fair. This will definitely be bad.

At the current rate of conversion, mostly intelligent people will be drawn to the game, people who can and will give quality advice to Tynan on critical things such as balance.

[Mikhail Reign]

Also, has this point even been raised: The introduction of this game into Steam would draw trolls and other dipsh!ts that could NOT tolerate the harshness of the game. They could easily shout louder at how the game is just not fair. This will definitely be bad.

At the current rate of conversion, mostly intelligent people will be drawn to the game, people who can and will give quality advice to Tynan on critical things such as balance.

This is the worst argument I see. Every group of gamers like to image that their game is somehow harder, requires more smarts and is generally better then everyone else.

'Dump' people can and do play DF. Smart people can play CoD.

People who bitch use the steam forums because no one puts effort in bitching - everyone else uses the dev forums. Look at PA. I'm sure that there is some crass comments on the steam forums, but the Dev forums are fine, if in fact a little quiet.

[TheSilencedScream]

Also, has this point even been raised: The introduction of this game into Steam would draw trolls and other dipsh!ts that could NOT tolerate the harshness of the game. They could easily shout louder at how the game is just not fair. This will definitely be bad.

At the current rate of conversion, mostly intelligent people will be drawn to the game, people who can and will give quality advice to Tynan on critical things such as balance.

And the same counter-point has been raised, multiple times, in this thread:
Go to Steam. Look for StoneHearth. No forum, no page to purchase.
Yet the game is played and updated on Steam for those early purchasers who wanted it on Steam. You just purchase via their site (like RimWorld) or Humble and get a Steam key in that method.

If things are able to be done in the same approach that StoneHearth took, it solves that issue and also allows for full release recognition to happen.

[Cedarik]

I found this game through Youtube playthoughs by quill18 and Sips.Im always using steam and looked there first for it.This type of game is an instant buy for me.The auto updates would be very handy.I believe your exposure on Steam would make any hassle or costs worthwhile.The customers are there and are itching for good games like this.

[Justin C]

It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.

This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?

Just my personal opinion..

Exactly this.

The game should be as polished as possible for the steam release. That gives it the best shot at being a huge hit.

Early Access is great if you need it to make your game happen, but if you use it when you don't need to you will be unnecessarily burning out many of your most loyal players (those who are so excited about the game that they buy it as soon as it appears on Steam) before the game is released, reducing your overall hype at launch when the game is in its most impressive state.

If Tynan keeps going at his current pace and releases the game whenever he feels it's ready, RimWorld is pretty much guaranteed to be a huge hit on Steam.

[Mikhail Reign]

Early Access is great if you need it to make your game happen, but if you use it when you don't need to you will be unnecessarily burning out many of your most loyal players (those who are so excited about the game that they buy it as soon as it appears on Steam) before the game is released, reducing your overall hype at launch when the game is in its most impressive state.

Evidence or is this just an opinion?

[TheSilencedScream]

PLEASE READ:

The topic isn't asking for a full Steam release (yet) and it isn't asking about Early Access. There is apparently a THIRD option.

It's asking about the model that Stonehearth is currently using - where you buy a Steam key via Stonehearth's site, and that is the only method of playing it on Steam. It doesn't even show up on Steam, if searched for. There is no forum, there is no page, there is NOTHING.

There would be no drawbacks, like Early Access games usually have.
There would still be an official release, as it isn't added to the Steam roster of games until the dev gives the green light.

The topic is just asking if we can replicate that, nothing else.
IF YOU CAN FIND A FLAW WITH THIS, than please say so. There's no need to argue about EA/full Steam release.

[tommytom]

Early Access is great if you need it to make your game happen, but if you use it when you don't need to you will be unnecessarily burning out many of your most loyal players (those who are so excited about the game that they buy it as soon as it appears on Steam) before the game is released, reducing your overall hype at launch when the game is in its most impressive state.

Evidence or is this just an opinion?

What does that have to do with anything? You can still buy the game now. By that logic, it shouldn't be sold here, on steam, in your dreams, etc until it's 100% complete.

Who cares if idiots get "burned out" by the time for release? That's their problem.

I'd understand if this were some MP FPS game and you need people to kill to have fun, but this is a SP PVE game. Doesn't matter if you are the only one playing or 6 billion.

What matters to me is it gets funded well (exposure), it gets updates (as it is), hopefully get some type of auto update, ease-of-use reinstalling on a reloaded/new system.

I don't care if you like the game in alpha or finished or anything state.

[lusername]

I have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.

But I *LIKE* manually downloading every update. I don't WANT things making unauthorized changes to my computer unsolicited. I want to be able to review what, exactly, will happen should I install this, and then prepare accordingly before doing anything.

The main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.

And the spyware. Don't forget the part where they know everything you have on your computer as a result of it hovering around, monitoring what you're doing, and spying on the contents of your system memory in some misguided attempt to stop you from "cheating". Or the part where they can just take away your stuff at whim. And don't say that this doesn't happen, it already has.

I, for one, am fine with this being Steam-free and would prefer it stay that way.

[tommytom]

I have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.

But I *LIKE* manually downloading every update. I don't WANT things making unauthorized changes to my computer unsolicited. I want to be able to review what, exactly, will happen should I install this, and then prepare accordingly before doing anything.

The main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.

And the spyware. Don't forget the part where they know everything you have on your computer as a result of it hovering around, monitoring what you're doing, and spying on the contents of your system memory in some misguided attempt to stop you from "cheating". Or the part where they can just take away your stuff at whim. And don't say that this doesn't happen, it already has.

I, for one, am fine with this being Steam-free and would prefer it stay that way.

Have you not used Steam? Ever? You can disable automatic updates totally per game.

Also, Steam doesn't spy on anything. You need a tinfoil hat m8.

All it does is verify you have the game and that you are logged into an account that has that game. You can disable all that stuff. You can even play offline with steam games and disable all the in-game stuff.

As far as the anti-cheat stuff (VAC, etc), that's only for MP games. It's not required or even installed unless the game dev requires it to be played online.

And for not wanting Steam, that is your choice. No one said "I want the Steam version ONLY." I'm sure Tynan will still have a way to download DRM-free non-Steam versions. Steam is just sooooo much easier.

[TheVoidDragon]

I have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.

But I *LIKE* manually downloading every update. I don't WANT things making unauthorized changes to my computer unsolicited. I want to be able to review what, exactly, will happen should I install this, and then prepare accordingly before doing anything.

The main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.

And the spyware. Don't forget the part where they know everything you have on your computer as a result of it hovering around, monitoring what you're doing, and spying on the contents of your system memory in some misguided attempt to stop you from "cheating". Or the part where they can just take away your stuff at whim. And don't say that this doesn't happen, it already has.

I, for one, am fine with this being Steam-free and would prefer it stay that way.

Where did you get the idea that there's spyware from? There's VAC but that only checks you haven't modified certain game files for certain games.  They aren't going to away your stuff without a reason, either.